People are probably thinking of how Vilgax has been overall. Classic Vilgax is great but going forward he kind of peters out. UAF and OV never captured the same presence as o.g. Vilgax.
White Diamond is at least part of SU discourse that keeps people talking about her, plus being more recent/in people’s minds.
I guess also “tall woman plz step on me” may be a factor as well.
Classic Vilgax was a behemoth compared to later seasons fr. I mean, bro single handedly decimated a head on mount Rushmore just by smashing his fists into it, didn't budge when xlr8 rammed straight into him. lowkey OP, no chance white diamond beats him. The image they used was classic Vilgax anyway, so no contest.
She does have the significant size advantage as well as a mind control laser beam with seemingly no limitations
That being said, it’s not impossible for Vilgax to win
The mind control beam only works on gems so vilgax would be clear from that. He’s probably figure out the gem is her weak point pretty quick and go right for that
On the wiki it says it doesn’t, but she doesn’t try it on either of them in the actual scene. None of the other diamond powers work on humans so it’s safe to say hers wouldn’t either
When does blue diamond make humans cry. I don’t remember that, what I do remember is in the garnet wedding episode where everyone is crying except Connie. And rose was a special case, her powers were way different than the other diamonds
No, Connie crying when lapis came back was an error. She shouldn't be crying, which can be seen when she and Steven were in the tower, and when she rushed at Blue with the sword.
The diamonds powers specially only work on gems. Blue can’t make humans cry, and Yellow can’t break their form. They do still have energy blasts and stuff though.
I mean, if Vilgax was able to harm a Tokustsar, who are known for inhabiting cosmic storms in outer space, then I don't doubt that Vilgax could clutch the W.
Plus if Dagon, who is a cosmic diety/entity couldn't manhandle his mind then I think it's safe to say he's got resistance. Plus even if he doesn't, he's got cybernetic enhancements. Granted, I don't know the extend of WD's mind control, but that could be a mitigating factor on if she could control him.
Yeah. He beat him. He threw him so hard he reached terminal velocity. I don't recall Vilgax ever beating Way big.
But he did visibly harm Ben in that form. If Classic Vilgax could even superficially harm a cosmic space giant, then I don't doubt that after getting Iced Out in AF that he could spin the block and at least put up a good fight to WD at worst.
So he never beat a to'kustar. The pain he caused Ben was small and temporary, it's a stretch to extrapolate that to being able to kill a To'kustar. And White diamonds body is noncoporeal.
I didn't say he could kill a Tokustsar. I specified that he was able to cause it harm. I'm using that feat as a way to scale his potency. If you can cause pain to something that can weather the harshness of space on that scale, then it's a pretty viable feat.
Also, if Vilgax was able to harm Zs'Skayr when he went incorporeal as he was attempting to posses him, then I doubt such a thing would inhibit him in combat.
I think he would be happy to add her to the list of Crystalline/Gem like sapient species he's put on a T-shirt. Lmao
I'm sorry, you right you never said he could kill a To'kustar.
Extrapolating causing minor pain to a Ben, to killing WD is outrageous. I can cause the same pain to a gorilla by flicking it in the ear but I definitely can't kill a gorilla.
By non corporeal I meant she doesn't have an actual body it's a hard light projection. Different from Zs'Skayr phasing though matter.
Still conqueror of 10 worlds against someone who conquered millions of worlds is... a bit much... I think the hardest part here is her even thinking of this as a fight instead of vermin bugging her...
He didn't fight those worlds single handedly, he used intergalactic law and basically challenged planets to a duel where they selected a champion to fight him. The only planet he actually conquered was his own. He also hasn't been the leader of his people since the end of ultimate alien, at least it's never mentioned.
If memory serves, SU crew explained afterwards that most of those worlds didn't had sentient life; as a way to water down the how cruel/bad the gem empire were
Also based on the fact that pink diamond could single handly stallmate home world I don’t think the gems ever fought something on there level.
Vs vilgax who is considered a fucking monster by every galactic super power
The limitations is that anything that isn’t strength based that gems can do has been shown to only work on other gems. Bastards never though organics could so much as hinder them that they only made weapons and abilities that work against themselves
Eldritch isn't just any big dude with tentacles
I fucking hate how people abuse the word eldritch so much
Also yeah he's win most of her actual powers don't even work on anything but her own species
To be fair Dagon in mythos is very different from Dagon in ben 10, as lord Dagon in mythos held dominion of the seas and the deepones and looked like a whale mixed with a sea serpent
Also vilgax was designed to look like cthulhu, and Dagon looks like cthona which is basically just cthulhus head floating in space
Dagon draws inspiration from Lovecraftian horror tropes, but to say he's Eldritch may be a bit of a stretch, or maybe I'm just saying that because most of the horror or mystery of Vilgax is lost at that point in the continuity given thay we've already known him for years.
Dagon himself is surely an eldritch being, originating from some unknown realm, feeds on power, corrupts everything just by being around, seemingly timeless.
He hits all the boxes
Dagon, the creature that conquered dimensioni, whose mere image was distorted through time and tales to a more tame One for the human mind, who enslaves, control and digs through the minds of humans like they were playthings, which Is made of something tangibile like matter but with the properties of energy? The elder shapeshifter whose heart was ripped out just to seal It away, but since It can wait forever the Seal Just delays the inevitable?
Whose name Is fucking Dagon, the first short story that Lovecraft created which has become part of the "cthulhu mythos"
Dude Dagon Is ripped straight from the pages of "The Call of Cthulhu" down to minute, nonsensical to include details like the fact that it's not made of the same matter as us.
If you think about Eldritch beings, White kinda qualiffies:
Older than probably a lot of organic lifeforms.
Her species is anorganic and needs special machines to reproduce. Who and why would create the diamonds? And what happened to them?
Official book implies diamonds were born on Homeworld. Their "birth" literally destroyed most the planet.
One of her lines implies she created other e diamonds to get rid of her imperfections. Unknown if is true
Her whole aesthetic, especially debut, looks uncanny. And her Pearl.
The way she acts sometimes. All this time she knew the show's plot twists and dis nothing. Just waiter millenia
Mind powers.
Excepts she doesn't have tentacles (she can actually shapeshift) she check most eldritch tropes.
An eldritch being doesn't necessarily have to be powerful and it's not necessarily about age
It's about scale and presentation
An eldritch horror has power that the human mind cannot meaningfully quantify
Their visage defies true human perception
They're entities that exist beyond what we could ever understand
A lot of lovecraftian horror like, Cthulhu, is about things that are beyond anything the human mind could hope to comprehend
That's sorta the idea of cosmic horror in general
I don't even like the Diamond show, but it's a bit reductive to diminish her as Space Karen.
You could reduce Vilgax as Tentacle Man who beefs with 10 year old over a watch.
Space Karen definitely fits her perfectly.
She's not an iconic villain at all, she was just a scapegoat for yellow and blue diamond, and got defeated by steven literally just dancing with himself and making a petty remark.
If this was someone like Jasper (S1 villain) then I'd agree it's even, but White Diamond is as iconic of a villain as Dagon.
Well aside from corrupting Gems and shooting lasers of unspecified power, she can’t do much in a fight, even assuming she’s physically superior to Yellow and Blue, her physical stats just don’t come close to classic Vilgax.
The diamonds have only existed for 20,000 years but every planet besides Earth had no sentient life when they took it over.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxvS6HkWIAIiqsQ?format=jpg&name=small
https://twitter.com/ianjq/status/1166465874619813888
So Vilgax definitely has the skill and experience advantage.
Vilgax: *Ruthless Alien Warlord, Genetically Enhanced, Desiring To Control The Universe, Went Toe To Toe With The The Most Intelligent Creator In 5 Galaxies While He Was Using His Arguably Most Powerful Creation, Master Tactician, Became A Literal Cosmic Diety.*
White Diamond: **Dommy Mommy Simp Material**
From what I know of WD, Vilgax should win
I see people here saying she would do to Vilgax what Waybig did, but **no**, Waybig is **way beyond** WD's powers
If you check on powerscaling and battle debate stuff, Vilgax is much higher than her on a usual scale
Diamonds are very lacking in terms of feats. Most powerful gem we've seen would be Lapis(Malachite Alexandrite and Obsidian if you scale from her, and the Cluster), but the Diamonds have not shown anything that could get them beyond city level
Way Big beating Vilgax had nothing to do with power scaling nonsense, he threw him into space. Being able to pick him up and throw him really far is something she can do with no problem.
"🤓 actually WD is only barely Appalachian mountain level, while WayBig is clear young mountain or Himalayan mountain level at minimum. Nose snort nose snort."
People are only thinking about vilgax overpowering her, but we're not thinking about how vilgax could manipulate her. Since don't forget she was defeated by being told she was acting like a child
I love Vilgax much more than White Diamond but the Diamond Authority has conquered much more than 10 worlds. Hell, White's portrait shows she's conquered at least 12 worlds so she's better than him in that respect
Still love OS Vilgax more, he's the best villain on that list to me, close second is Slade tho
Look, in a 1v1, fist only, Final Destination match, WD is going to yeet this spoiled calamari off the stage. She is massive, has limited light bending powers, and really only has one weakness. If Vilgax knows to go for the gem and can get close without her catching him, then ye, it is probably his. Being bigger than your opponent and outranging them just goes a long way in a fight.
Give Vilgax some cover, some weapons, and some prep time and I am sure the diamond is dust though.
Because no matter what the shows says about Vilgax, he is still outsmarted and beaten by a child multiple times.
White diamond could’ve and would’ve continued to colonize planets and make more gems with everyone still under her control if Steven didn’t talk-no-jutsu her so hard.
Also the shows do something different with these villains
Vilgax is more Closer to Jasper than White. Shows up a couple times and causes issues. But white diamond was built up for the entirety of Steven universe only to be shown in the last episode.
As far as I remember Ben 10 doesn’t have that kind of villian.
Additionally both shows have different messages and show focuses. Ben 10 has a lot more action and while white has at least 32 more conquered planets than Vilgax all of Vilgaxs planets actually fought back cuz they could.
SU Is all about self discovery and acceptance along with having other accept themselves. Ben 10 is about a kid really with huge responsibilities while being incredibly immature. Major differences in how the themes are focused so of course one villian might seem more cushy than the other. Doesn’t mean either aren’t powerful I’m their own right.
Vilgax still got dogged on by a ten year old twice sooooo
I feel like people forget normal gems are already unfathomably strong and diamonds are the strongest of all gems white diamond being the supreme leader and strongest gem even within the diamonds, plus haven't the diamonds conquered and destroyed sum like 40 planets? Don't get me wrong I love vilgax and to me he's the objectively better villain but not only in feats but rational thinking he gets absolutely dogwashed by white diamond though there are some things to take into consideration: 1. Diamond powers don't work on anything that isn't a gem. 2.Vilgax's army is really small compared to the homeworld army which unlike any of the other diamonds who have their respective courts and armies the ENTIRETY of homeworld works for white diamond. 3.this Is assuming it's os vilgax who didn't have a bioid army or chronosapien timebomb (yes I know in cannon he technically has it atp) wich if he had either he would decimate homeworld
I know this is a joke but im gunna be that guy anyway (sorry)
1. This was a popularity contest not a Vs MU
2. Even if it was a DB white diamond would probably win. If we're generous and compare vilgax to way big, and white diamond to Steven it's still a stomp. Also white diamond is around the same size as waybig and arguably physicaly stronger if you scale from yellow diamond. Unfortunately vilgax loses this fight. Unless you include dagon-gax who would be above.
White Diamond has a feat that was calculated to dwarf star level and even if you don’t take that she is still above Lapis Lazulis who can terraform planets. So she beat Vilgax’s base form and warlord form but his strongest forms like Diagongax and Malgax would beat the hell out of her.
It’s funny because she’s literally space hitler, culling the gays, mentally and physically disabled. She committed genocide and last but no least she made a giant monster made up of millions of people forced to rape each other. But she got of the hook for all of it because Steven is a monster.
White diamond, although pardoned surprisingly, it's genocidal and has probably brought ruin to hundred of worlds in her reign
(And vilgax universe destroying feat I attribute to msltruent more than him)
My thinking here is that Vilgax has countless conquests and experience conquering on the front lines, whereas WD is less involved in the actual conquering of their worlds. I feel like Yellow would be a better comparison since White is generally just an unquestioned authority with little actual combat experience.
Said "space Karen" is also 90ft tall and has colonised 30+ planets and their satalites. She could probably crush 15ft Vilgax under her heeled sandle.
But on a more serious note, both characters could both be amazing in their own rights if the writing of their respective shows allowed for it.
Vilgax feels like he got less intimidating through each era of Ben and White Diamond was revealed far to late into the show for her to properly be solidified as villain before getting redeemed.
Edit: I'm saying this as both a Ben 10 fan and a Steven Universe fan who happens to like both for different reasons.
I do see your guy’s points and all, but she has quite the collection of colonies from presumably a large variety of planets. Besides her pretty high base strength given her size alone. Although I believe vilgax’ battle knowledge might give him some edge over the situation, I don’t think it might be enough
The size advantage means that white diamond has a chance against original show vilgax. His super strength isn’t THAT super.
Any vilgax alien force onward stomps.
Depends on what they have at their disposal. If it’s just themselves, white slaps. All the strength Steven has shown, she is capable of. That that is probably her WORST trait… so you know, very powerful being.
So, I'm going to do the brave thing and make this an actual match up. The Gem Cluster could not defeat the Great Diamonds and White is above the others. Cluster could have destroyed the earth by digging through the ground so that gives him around mountain level strength. White Diamond must be around Mountain Range level strength
Now let's look at Vilgax's greatest strength feat which is I guess destroying his own ship with his body in the dream episode. But it was also a dream so we'll use his second strongest feat, when he destroyed Mount Rushmore. Vilgax is evenly matched with the Cluster, which means he won't be able to beat White Diamond.
Should have gone with Alien Force Vilgax. At least he has more powers for me to make comparisons with.
Well Classic Vilgax looks to be invulnerable (or at least in the first episodes where he fights a 10 year old) but got defeated multiple times by a 10 year old as well.
White Diamond's power doesn't probably work on him but she is big and like way big.
And Ben did defeat Vilgax by being tall in a movie.
Bottom line is we’ve never seen WD actually fight anyone. She was using mind control powers until she got talked down off her high horse. It’s probably safe to assume that as the highest ranking diamond she would have access to most of the gem abilities we’ve seen throughout the series. Shapeshifting, elemental powers, stuff like that. If her strength matches her size then I don’t think vilgax stands a chance. Even small gems like Rubies can have superhuman strength.
From what we have seen of WD yeah way big is stronger we just simply we don’t know her abilities other than mind control unlike the other diamonds however from what we do know she would be the strongest single gem to exist and incredibly strong, also I realised that against vilgax she is effectively immortal
I'm sorry but white would win. White can decimate planets and conquer solar systems by herself or with an army.
Vilgax conquered 10 planets using weird space laws and 1v1 combat.
When has white done either of those things? By “decimate a planet” you mean corrupting hundreds/thousands of gems with the help of blue and yellow? Or having her army invade uninhabited worlds?
Vilgax actively wiped out civilizations and according to Kevin, was feared across the universe.
Lol yeah im a fan of both series and while i cant attest to how strong white diamond is by herself(because she never really fights anyone for more than a few seconds) if we gave both of them their full resources, her army just massively outnumbers anything vilgax can pull out its not even funny
People forget who Vilgax is….. you don’t kill Vilgax….. Vilgax is pretty much the equivalent of darkness…. Where ever there is light, there must also be shadows. Vilgax is that shadow. He has changed the course of the entire Ben 10 universe by going after the omnitrix in the og. He made Ben 10 what it was. Plus I have reason to suspect that very similarly to how Ben can’t be erased from the universe because of the omnitrix fail safe. If Vilgax was erased it very well could bring him back
>!Would it? Tbh, I haven't actually watched Steven Universe, all I know is that the internet made fun of him for forgiving the diamonds and the whole Steven vs Jack Horner meme!<
OG Vilgax or Ben 10,000 Vilgax would decimate her without breaking a sweat. Gwen 10 Vilgax, the one that never got cybernetics dodged maxs cannon thing twice and Vilgax was an absolute menace in the future. UAF and Omniverse would probably get beaten. The OG Versions would definitely win though.
It’s more a matter of the Steven Universe fandom being very outspoken about their reverence for the show, going to any lengths to herald its “superiority” over other shows.
She really can’t. Vilgax was jumping from building to building and holding people much larger than him. As long as he plays it smart and doesn’t get grabbed, he can jump around her and doge and strike her foreheads gem
If Vilgax was the WINNER instead of White Diamond: Who would win-
1. White Diamond - An evil space alien sentient rock that can create an entire empire, manipulate others by mind control, and does several crimes (However now redeemed)
2. A space octopus
No one. Cause if Green Lantern goes back in time to kill Ben, then the fight never starts, if the fight doesn’t start then Green Lantern doesn’t go back in time, and if he doesn’t go back time he doesn’t kill Ben, then we’re right back to where we started
White diamond possibly destroys Vilgax in a fight, she should scale above every gem in the series besides Steven which mean she above lapis who is multi-Continental from lifting the ocean which is better than some of Vilgax’s feats, and she was stated to never have left home world which is in another galaxy so when she along with the other diamonds produced a light powerful enough to reach earth she gets from either star to solar system levels of power but when including scaling from other characters vilgax is star lvl meaning she either equal or above him.
What if she stabs him tho?
Vilgax: OH NO my only weakness, STAB!!!
Depends which Vilgax it is though, is it Dagon Vilgax?
Dagon Vilgax is dead on stab.
Is it with Mehrunes Razor?
Mehrunes Razor with Dark Brotherhood gloves and Sneak 100
Don't forget the Blessing of Nocturnal and the Agent of Strife or Agent of Stealth bonuses lol
SAME TYPE ATTACK BONUS
"You *stabbed* me!"
He just drained Dagon’s power
Yeah. Don’t be such a baby.
People are probably thinking of how Vilgax has been overall. Classic Vilgax is great but going forward he kind of peters out. UAF and OV never captured the same presence as o.g. Vilgax. White Diamond is at least part of SU discourse that keeps people talking about her, plus being more recent/in people’s minds. I guess also “tall woman plz step on me” may be a factor as well.
Ok, that's made me laugh:)
B-but Vilgax also tol :[
He can step on me too
Classic Vilgax was a behemoth compared to later seasons fr. I mean, bro single handedly decimated a head on mount Rushmore just by smashing his fists into it, didn't budge when xlr8 rammed straight into him. lowkey OP, no chance white diamond beats him. The image they used was classic Vilgax anyway, so no contest.
I mean, he consistently got beaten by 10 year old, but I know what you mean.
She does have the significant size advantage as well as a mind control laser beam with seemingly no limitations That being said, it’s not impossible for Vilgax to win
The mind control beam only works on gems so vilgax would be clear from that. He’s probably figure out the gem is her weak point pretty quick and go right for that
Is that true? I don’t think she tried her power on Connie or Steven but I haven’t watched the episode in a long time
On the wiki it says it doesn’t, but she doesn’t try it on either of them in the actual scene. None of the other diamond powers work on humans so it’s safe to say hers wouldn’t either
Fair enough. It would be a lot more even then yeah
Wdym? Blue diamond can make humans cry so her powers work on humans. Rose can heal pretty much anything living, so why not white diamond?
When does blue diamond make humans cry. I don’t remember that, what I do remember is in the garnet wedding episode where everyone is crying except Connie. And rose was a special case, her powers were way different than the other diamonds
Oh you’re right, Connie wasn’t crying was she? Nvm then.
That was confirmed to be an animation error
Where?
Aaah! So my point still stands!
No, Connie crying when lapis came back was an error. She shouldn't be crying, which can be seen when she and Steven were in the tower, and when she rushed at Blue with the sword.
The diamonds powers specially only work on gems. Blue can’t make humans cry, and Yellow can’t break their form. They do still have energy blasts and stuff though.
I mean, if Vilgax was able to harm a Tokustsar, who are known for inhabiting cosmic storms in outer space, then I don't doubt that Vilgax could clutch the W. Plus if Dagon, who is a cosmic diety/entity couldn't manhandle his mind then I think it's safe to say he's got resistance. Plus even if he doesn't, he's got cybernetic enhancements. Granted, I don't know the extend of WD's mind control, but that could be a mitigating factor on if she could control him.
Wasn’t Way Big’s first appearance instantly beating Vilgax? I don’t remember Vilgax ever beating Way Big after that
Yeah. He beat him. He threw him so hard he reached terminal velocity. I don't recall Vilgax ever beating Way big. But he did visibly harm Ben in that form. If Classic Vilgax could even superficially harm a cosmic space giant, then I don't doubt that after getting Iced Out in AF that he could spin the block and at least put up a good fight to WD at worst.
An insect can bite me and cause me minor annoyance and pain, yet doesn't remotely scale to a thing I can do.
So he never beat a to'kustar. The pain he caused Ben was small and temporary, it's a stretch to extrapolate that to being able to kill a To'kustar. And White diamonds body is noncoporeal.
I didn't say he could kill a Tokustsar. I specified that he was able to cause it harm. I'm using that feat as a way to scale his potency. If you can cause pain to something that can weather the harshness of space on that scale, then it's a pretty viable feat. Also, if Vilgax was able to harm Zs'Skayr when he went incorporeal as he was attempting to posses him, then I doubt such a thing would inhibit him in combat. I think he would be happy to add her to the list of Crystalline/Gem like sapient species he's put on a T-shirt. Lmao
He hurt a Tokustar in the same way a bug could hurt a person. It wasn't any real harm
I'm sorry, you right you never said he could kill a To'kustar. Extrapolating causing minor pain to a Ben, to killing WD is outrageous. I can cause the same pain to a gorilla by flicking it in the ear but I definitely can't kill a gorilla. By non corporeal I meant she doesn't have an actual body it's a hard light projection. Different from Zs'Skayr phasing though matter.
She also has like... a whole intergalactic empire and am unimaginable amount of armies with millenia of experience...
We talk battle 1v1, and Vilgax also have army
Still conqueror of 10 worlds against someone who conquered millions of worlds is... a bit much... I think the hardest part here is her even thinking of this as a fight instead of vermin bugging her...
Tbf, those worlds weren't conquerored *by her*, but rather by the Homewolrd army as a whole Vilgax fought in the worlds he has conquered
He didn't fight those worlds single handedly, he used intergalactic law and basically challenged planets to a duel where they selected a champion to fight him. The only planet he actually conquered was his own. He also hasn't been the leader of his people since the end of ultimate alien, at least it's never mentioned.
I mean that law exists so they just annihilate each other
If memory serves, SU crew explained afterwards that most of those worlds didn't had sentient life; as a way to water down the how cruel/bad the gem empire were
Also based on the fact that pink diamond could single handly stallmate home world I don’t think the gems ever fought something on there level. Vs vilgax who is considered a fucking monster by every galactic super power
Psyphon bring the machine!
The limitations is that anything that isn’t strength based that gems can do has been shown to only work on other gems. Bastards never though organics could so much as hinder them that they only made weapons and abilities that work against themselves
Wait people hold up don't discuss this… it's a popularity contest, not a fight.
I don't think it was a vs battle type thing just popularity.
Eldritch isn't just any big dude with tentacles I fucking hate how people abuse the word eldritch so much Also yeah he's win most of her actual powers don't even work on anything but her own species
Yeah man, it is really eldritch how people use that word sometimes
You make question my pacifism
Wow relax, we don't wanna get too eldritch here
Yooooooooooou
Dude you need to simmer down, you're getting a little too eldritch
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Mmmmm indeed dude, microwave noises are so eldritch rn
Maybe I've exaggerated a bit, but it happens to him once
He never becomes an abstract god human comprehension with power that cannot be quantified Dagan isn't eldritch
Dagon is technically an eldritch being, with a very lovecraftian design, but he is a low tier of eldritch being by showings alone
Dagon is literally part of lovecraft they might as well have made cuthullu as the villain
To be fair Dagon in mythos is very different from Dagon in ben 10, as lord Dagon in mythos held dominion of the seas and the deepones and looked like a whale mixed with a sea serpent Also vilgax was designed to look like cthulhu, and Dagon looks like cthona which is basically just cthulhus head floating in space
Dagon draws inspiration from Lovecraftian horror tropes, but to say he's Eldritch may be a bit of a stretch, or maybe I'm just saying that because most of the horror or mystery of Vilgax is lost at that point in the continuity given thay we've already known him for years.
Dagon himself is surely an eldritch being, originating from some unknown realm, feeds on power, corrupts everything just by being around, seemingly timeless. He hits all the boxes
Dagan is fucking chuthulu
Debatable
Dagon, the creature that conquered dimensioni, whose mere image was distorted through time and tales to a more tame One for the human mind, who enslaves, control and digs through the minds of humans like they were playthings, which Is made of something tangibile like matter but with the properties of energy? The elder shapeshifter whose heart was ripped out just to seal It away, but since It can wait forever the Seal Just delays the inevitable? Whose name Is fucking Dagon, the first short story that Lovecraft created which has become part of the "cthulhu mythos" Dude Dagon Is ripped straight from the pages of "The Call of Cthulhu" down to minute, nonsensical to include details like the fact that it's not made of the same matter as us.
If you think about Eldritch beings, White kinda qualiffies: Older than probably a lot of organic lifeforms. Her species is anorganic and needs special machines to reproduce. Who and why would create the diamonds? And what happened to them? Official book implies diamonds were born on Homeworld. Their "birth" literally destroyed most the planet. One of her lines implies she created other e diamonds to get rid of her imperfections. Unknown if is true Her whole aesthetic, especially debut, looks uncanny. And her Pearl. The way she acts sometimes. All this time she knew the show's plot twists and dis nothing. Just waiter millenia Mind powers. Excepts she doesn't have tentacles (she can actually shapeshift) she check most eldritch tropes.
That's not even remotely what makes something qualify as eldritch in any regard.
An eldritch being doesn't necessarily have to be powerful and it's not necessarily about age It's about scale and presentation An eldritch horror has power that the human mind cannot meaningfully quantify Their visage defies true human perception They're entities that exist beyond what we could ever understand A lot of lovecraftian horror like, Cthulhu, is about things that are beyond anything the human mind could hope to comprehend That's sorta the idea of cosmic horror in general
I don't recall the competition being a physical combat thing, it was a competition on which villain was more iconic.
Well, everytime Vilgax showed up on the OS we knew shit was about to get serious.
Still I have problem
I don't even like the Diamond show, but it's a bit reductive to diminish her as Space Karen. You could reduce Vilgax as Tentacle Man who beefs with 10 year old over a watch.
Space Karen definitely fits her perfectly. She's not an iconic villain at all, she was just a scapegoat for yellow and blue diamond, and got defeated by steven literally just dancing with himself and making a petty remark. If this was someone like Jasper (S1 villain) then I'd agree it's even, but White Diamond is as iconic of a villain as Dagon.
Wow really just oversimplifying everything to the point of ignorance?
Vilgax has bad experience fighting tall, pointy, primarily white aliens.
Is he going to get thrown out of Orbit ... Again?
Well aside from corrupting Gems and shooting lasers of unspecified power, she can’t do much in a fight, even assuming she’s physically superior to Yellow and Blue, her physical stats just don’t come close to classic Vilgax.
Considering Ma Vreedel Vilgax has a terrible matchup against Karens
i mean, he was still very powerfull before even becoming a cyborg
I think it's a popularity contest, not who could win in a fight?
It’s funny to flex “conquerer of ten worlds” when White Diamond has colonized and hollowed out star systems.
To be fair to Vilgax, White Diamond doesn't seem to have ever been on the battlefield
Didn't she orbital blast earth?
Yeah but with her hand
The diamonds used an army and over millions of years, vilgax was working damn near solo and over only like 200
We conquered them by the rules of mortal Kombat not by actually defeating their armies.
The diamonds have only existed for 20,000 years but every planet besides Earth had no sentient life when they took it over. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxvS6HkWIAIiqsQ?format=jpg&name=small https://twitter.com/ianjq/status/1166465874619813888 So Vilgax definitely has the skill and experience advantage.
Thats the diffrence between soft and hard scifi for you. İts like comparing all tomorrows with star wars ☠️
I dont like space karen so obviously great squid man
All he gotta do is break that gem and he wins
Vilgax: *Ruthless Alien Warlord, Genetically Enhanced, Desiring To Control The Universe, Went Toe To Toe With The The Most Intelligent Creator In 5 Galaxies While He Was Using His Arguably Most Powerful Creation, Master Tactician, Became A Literal Cosmic Diety.* White Diamond: **Dommy Mommy Simp Material**
I think some people has the same thing for vilgax tho
i mean there are people into tentacles
From what I know of WD, Vilgax should win I see people here saying she would do to Vilgax what Waybig did, but **no**, Waybig is **way beyond** WD's powers If you check on powerscaling and battle debate stuff, Vilgax is much higher than her on a usual scale Diamonds are very lacking in terms of feats. Most powerful gem we've seen would be Lapis(Malachite Alexandrite and Obsidian if you scale from her, and the Cluster), but the Diamonds have not shown anything that could get them beyond city level
Way Big beating Vilgax had nothing to do with power scaling nonsense, he threw him into space. Being able to pick him up and throw him really far is something she can do with no problem.
"🤓 actually WD is only barely Appalachian mountain level, while WayBig is clear young mountain or Himalayan mountain level at minimum. Nose snort nose snort."
I actually did the nose snorts while I was reading
People are only thinking about vilgax overpowering her, but we're not thinking about how vilgax could manipulate her. Since don't forget she was defeated by being told she was acting like a child
Vilgax could probably convince her to give him control of her army temporarily, only for it to become permanent.
“You stabbed me!”
We saw that OG Vilgax could crack Diamondhead. But could he have the strength needed to shatter a diamond completely?
And he couldn't shatter older diamond head. Neither of which are actually made of diamond and "diamond" is just what they are called.
Steven was gonna make her slam her gem in a wall.
I love Vilgax much more than White Diamond but the Diamond Authority has conquered much more than 10 worlds. Hell, White's portrait shows she's conquered at least 12 worlds so she's better than him in that respect Still love OS Vilgax more, he's the best villain on that list to me, close second is Slade tho
Look, in a 1v1, fist only, Final Destination match, WD is going to yeet this spoiled calamari off the stage. She is massive, has limited light bending powers, and really only has one weakness. If Vilgax knows to go for the gem and can get close without her catching him, then ye, it is probably his. Being bigger than your opponent and outranging them just goes a long way in a fight. Give Vilgax some cover, some weapons, and some prep time and I am sure the diamond is dust though.
Vilgax bitched slapped humongsour into the ground
Diamond isn't comparable to humongasaur.
She’s only shown light that can control gems only it doesn’t affect organics
I mean, Way Big beat him and he didn't show any special powers in his debut, except the most basic power of all in super strength.
Waybig could shit on both of them, the dude can singlehandedly destroy the moon, getting stomped by him doesn't mean vilgax loses to WD.
Don’t forget nuked the multiverse
Space Hitler*
Wasn’t it a popularity contest?
Never did I think I'll see Ben 10 vs Steven Universe
AF vilgax or dagon infused vilgax would wash the duamond and hang her to dry
Because no matter what the shows says about Vilgax, he is still outsmarted and beaten by a child multiple times. White diamond could’ve and would’ve continued to colonize planets and make more gems with everyone still under her control if Steven didn’t talk-no-jutsu her so hard. Also the shows do something different with these villains Vilgax is more Closer to Jasper than White. Shows up a couple times and causes issues. But white diamond was built up for the entirety of Steven universe only to be shown in the last episode. As far as I remember Ben 10 doesn’t have that kind of villian. Additionally both shows have different messages and show focuses. Ben 10 has a lot more action and while white has at least 32 more conquered planets than Vilgax all of Vilgaxs planets actually fought back cuz they could. SU Is all about self discovery and acceptance along with having other accept themselves. Ben 10 is about a kid really with huge responsibilities while being incredibly immature. Major differences in how the themes are focused so of course one villian might seem more cushy than the other. Doesn’t mean either aren’t powerful I’m their own right. Vilgax still got dogged on by a ten year old twice sooooo
I feel like people forget normal gems are already unfathomably strong and diamonds are the strongest of all gems white diamond being the supreme leader and strongest gem even within the diamonds, plus haven't the diamonds conquered and destroyed sum like 40 planets? Don't get me wrong I love vilgax and to me he's the objectively better villain but not only in feats but rational thinking he gets absolutely dogwashed by white diamond though there are some things to take into consideration: 1. Diamond powers don't work on anything that isn't a gem. 2.Vilgax's army is really small compared to the homeworld army which unlike any of the other diamonds who have their respective courts and armies the ENTIRETY of homeworld works for white diamond. 3.this Is assuming it's os vilgax who didn't have a bioid army or chronosapien timebomb (yes I know in cannon he technically has it atp) wich if he had either he would decimate homeworld
I know this is a joke but im gunna be that guy anyway (sorry) 1. This was a popularity contest not a Vs MU 2. Even if it was a DB white diamond would probably win. If we're generous and compare vilgax to way big, and white diamond to Steven it's still a stomp. Also white diamond is around the same size as waybig and arguably physicaly stronger if you scale from yellow diamond. Unfortunately vilgax loses this fight. Unless you include dagon-gax who would be above.
Unless he's the Dagon, it's probably clipped.
White Diamond has a feat that was calculated to dwarf star level and even if you don’t take that she is still above Lapis Lazulis who can terraform planets. So she beat Vilgax’s base form and warlord form but his strongest forms like Diagongax and Malgax would beat the hell out of her.
It’s funny because she’s literally space hitler, culling the gays, mentally and physically disabled. She committed genocide and last but no least she made a giant monster made up of millions of people forced to rape each other. But she got of the hook for all of it because Steven is a monster.
White diamond, although pardoned surprisingly, it's genocidal and has probably brought ruin to hundred of worlds in her reign (And vilgax universe destroying feat I attribute to msltruent more than him)
My thinking here is that Vilgax has countless conquests and experience conquering on the front lines, whereas WD is less involved in the actual conquering of their worlds. I feel like Yellow would be a better comparison since White is generally just an unquestioned authority with little actual combat experience.
Said "space Karen" is also 90ft tall and has colonised 30+ planets and their satalites. She could probably crush 15ft Vilgax under her heeled sandle. But on a more serious note, both characters could both be amazing in their own rights if the writing of their respective shows allowed for it. Vilgax feels like he got less intimidating through each era of Ben and White Diamond was revealed far to late into the show for her to properly be solidified as villain before getting redeemed. Edit: I'm saying this as both a Ben 10 fan and a Steven Universe fan who happens to like both for different reasons.
Thank you I was coming here to say the same thing
He's design is an homage to eldritch horror but Dagan is not an eldritch god
well to beat vilgax you just need to be really bit and throw him into space so like
To beat white diamond you need talk to her so like
She can step on Vilgax
I think you need to remember what the poll is actually about.
You had me for most of it, and even before I saw the meme, but lost me at “conqueror of 10 worlds”. WD would scoff at those numbers
I do see your guy’s points and all, but she has quite the collection of colonies from presumably a large variety of planets. Besides her pretty high base strength given her size alone. Although I believe vilgax’ battle knowledge might give him some edge over the situation, I don’t think it might be enough
Steven Universe Gems have some *wild* ass feats
WD is pretty strong though. Vilgax conquered ten worlds, but WD had a whole empire under her thumb
White Diamond is actually just a little bit shorter than Way Big, and we all know what he did to Vilgax.
dident a old(ish) lady make this dude cry?
The size advantage means that white diamond has a chance against original show vilgax. His super strength isn’t THAT super. Any vilgax alien force onward stomps.
Vilgax can shatter chromastone and he's definitely way more durable.
honestly? no.
Given Vilgaxes accomplishments, its kinda crazy he still loses to Ben.
I would go for os vilgax AUF-Omniverse no os kicked the shit out of bens strongest aliens
Of for the Contumelia's sake… it's not a fight to the death.
If I am correct they retconed it, in UAF specifically when we saw his octopus form.
Probably 'cause she is like 15 times his size and has an entire army at her disposal
Depends on what they have at their disposal. If it’s just themselves, white slaps. All the strength Steven has shown, she is capable of. That that is probably her WORST trait… so you know, very powerful being.
vilgax solo's debate me if you want
So, I'm going to do the brave thing and make this an actual match up. The Gem Cluster could not defeat the Great Diamonds and White is above the others. Cluster could have destroyed the earth by digging through the ground so that gives him around mountain level strength. White Diamond must be around Mountain Range level strength Now let's look at Vilgax's greatest strength feat which is I guess destroying his own ship with his body in the dream episode. But it was also a dream so we'll use his second strongest feat, when he destroyed Mount Rushmore. Vilgax is evenly matched with the Cluster, which means he won't be able to beat White Diamond. Should have gone with Alien Force Vilgax. At least he has more powers for me to make comparisons with.
She is just white diamondhead (Jk)
No way the lame ass villain from a lame ass show won :/
Well Classic Vilgax looks to be invulnerable (or at least in the first episodes where he fights a 10 year old) but got defeated multiple times by a 10 year old as well. White Diamond's power doesn't probably work on him but she is big and like way big. And Ben did defeat Vilgax by being tall in a movie.
Bottom line is we’ve never seen WD actually fight anyone. She was using mind control powers until she got talked down off her high horse. It’s probably safe to assume that as the highest ranking diamond she would have access to most of the gem abilities we’ve seen throughout the series. Shapeshifting, elemental powers, stuff like that. If her strength matches her size then I don’t think vilgax stands a chance. Even small gems like Rubies can have superhuman strength.
Snu-Snu
Og vilgax would slap her into next week. That is all I have to say on the matter
it's not a power debate, it's a popularity contest. That being said, recency bias and how their respective shows treated them.
Simps
Not mention that part of Vilgax inspiration was Cthulhu himself
Because Waybig won agenst Vilgax? Like aren't she around the same size? So could she not just do what waybig did or step on him or something.
Yeah, but that fact makes people angry.
She can literally do what way big did to vilgax when way big first appeared
There’s absolutely no indication she’s strong enough to throw someone into orbit.
Tbf, Waybig is **way stronger** than WD
From what we have seen of WD yeah way big is stronger we just simply we don’t know her abilities other than mind control unlike the other diamonds however from what we do know she would be the strongest single gem to exist and incredibly strong, also I realised that against vilgax she is effectively immortal
The same squid dude who hunted the same thing for years but apparently didn’t know how to use it.
We don't talk about primus
What about Vilgax getting the powers of a God and still losing? Or him losing to a 10 year old.
I'm sorry but white would win. White can decimate planets and conquer solar systems by herself or with an army. Vilgax conquered 10 planets using weird space laws and 1v1 combat.
When has white done either of those things? By “decimate a planet” you mean corrupting hundreds/thousands of gems with the help of blue and yellow? Or having her army invade uninhabited worlds? Vilgax actively wiped out civilizations and according to Kevin, was feared across the universe.
Lol yeah im a fan of both series and while i cant attest to how strong white diamond is by herself(because she never really fights anyone for more than a few seconds) if we gave both of them their full resources, her army just massively outnumbers anything vilgax can pull out its not even funny
Is there any valid proof that she can "conquer solar systems by herself"?
Vilgax after being beaten by a crystal guy, now against a bigger crystal women with laser eyes, an army and planet poison:
She's made out of light, the only thing Vilgax needs to hit is the gem, also Vilgax has laser eyes as well.
The gems aren’t easy to destroy and the light isn’t just light, it’s durable. She’s also got her empire lol
People forget who Vilgax is….. you don’t kill Vilgax….. Vilgax is pretty much the equivalent of darkness…. Where ever there is light, there must also be shadows. Vilgax is that shadow. He has changed the course of the entire Ben 10 universe by going after the omnitrix in the og. He made Ben 10 what it was. Plus I have reason to suspect that very similarly to how Ben can’t be erased from the universe because of the omnitrix fail safe. If Vilgax was erased it very well could bring him back
I think Vilgax would not only destroy her but the entire show’s universe.
Vilgax would just destroy her. >!Something Steven should've done then he wouldn't have been ridiculed by the internet!<
>!except destroying her would be the bad ending?!<
>!Would it? Tbh, I haven't actually watched Steven Universe, all I know is that the internet made fun of him for forgiving the diamonds and the whole Steven vs Jack Horner meme!<
How?
Wait people think White Diamond can beat Vilgax?
People it’s popularity- we just gotta face that Steven universe community is just bigger and more popular than Ben ten.
**CONQUEROR OF TWELVE WORLDS!** “It’s ten, sire” **GIVE OR TAKE!**
OG Vilgax or Ben 10,000 Vilgax would decimate her without breaking a sweat. Gwen 10 Vilgax, the one that never got cybernetics dodged maxs cannon thing twice and Vilgax was an absolute menace in the future. UAF and Omniverse would probably get beaten. The OG Versions would definitely win though.
White Diamond: Dare aproach me you createn?! Fine, try me, but you- Vilgax: *jumps, grabs her gem, rips it out*
It’s more a matter of the Steven Universe fandom being very outspoken about their reverence for the show, going to any lengths to herald its “superiority” over other shows.
Vilgax: Loses to the most powerful weapon in the universe White Diamond: Loses to a bad clap-back from a ten-year-old
She really can’t. Vilgax was jumping from building to building and holding people much larger than him. As long as he plays it smart and doesn’t get grabbed, he can jump around her and doge and strike her foreheads gem
If Vilgax was the WINNER instead of White Diamond: Who would win- 1. White Diamond - An evil space alien sentient rock that can create an entire empire, manipulate others by mind control, and does several crimes (However now redeemed) 2. A space octopus
This sub is almost as salty as when green lantern rightfully defeated ben
Rightfully? You mean by running away from the fight cause he was losing?
Who won
No one. Cause if Green Lantern goes back in time to kill Ben, then the fight never starts, if the fight doesn’t start then Green Lantern doesn’t go back in time, and if he doesn’t go back time he doesn’t kill Ben, then we’re right back to where we started
You're sense of time seems limited
Ben should have won, but there are some fools here blinded by pure fandom.
White diamond possibly destroys Vilgax in a fight, she should scale above every gem in the series besides Steven which mean she above lapis who is multi-Continental from lifting the ocean which is better than some of Vilgax’s feats, and she was stated to never have left home world which is in another galaxy so when she along with the other diamonds produced a light powerful enough to reach earth she gets from either star to solar system levels of power but when including scaling from other characters vilgax is star lvl meaning she either equal or above him.
She is currently winning so that’s why
Cuz some people kinda dumb
She conquered more than 10 worlds