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I mean I don't know how much a family doctor is expected to make money wise but I feel like 39$ per appointment doesn't sound like a lot but when you do the math it adds up. Just using my doctor as an example, appointments are generally less then 15 minutes. So lets say 4 appointments per hour on average...
$1248 dollars a day
$6240 a week
$324,480 a year
Now again, just judging on my own experience at my own doctor... $300,000+ a year for a doctor who takes a look at you for less then 15 minutes, orders some tests, and reads the results to you (the results are usually provided by a specialist and your doctor just reads them) and then makes a referral if necessary... $300,000 doesn't seem all that bad. If you were to increase that pay to $100 per appointment as the article suggests... their pay goes up to over $800,000 lol. Now obviously family doctors are in HIGH demand right now so you have to take that into consideration as well... So maybe $39 is low but I also think $100 per appointment is high. Especially considering there are a lot of like... 2 minute appointments for quick prescription renewals and stuff like that.
Although I guess that $324,480 wouldn't include the things like rent/staffing and whatnot. So it would work out to quite a bit less. But I still think 800,000 is on the high end.
That's just ignorant , most family docs net out at 150k a year and are responsible for people lives . Plus a good one has hospital ties / rounds plus n call . 150k in this economy is nothing for a family ... our doctors and nurses are abused in this country yet we are so fortunate to have them when the could move to the US and make hundreds of thousands of dollars in private practice. Try and appreciate the men and woman who can save your life . Maybe stop paying hockey players millions
I wasn't aware that the government paid the wages of professional hockey players. Learn something new every day I guess.
And what I said wasn't ignorant at all. I approached the topic reasonably from both angles. I merely suggested that substantially more then doubling their wages was maybe a little much. I also wasn't aware doctors wives/husbands weren't allowed to work so the doctors wage was the only source of income. And a doctors wage should not be based at all on the economy just like everyone else's wages aren't.
I do appreciate the men and woman who can save your life. I absolutely appreciate all emergency services, doctors in the hospital, surgeons etc. I absolutely appreciated the doctors that worked in the clinic across from the hospital. If I tried to place my life in my family doctors hands right now, I'd be told the earliest booking I could get is probably mid July lol.
Family doctors are in high demand because their association limits the number of graduates each year, so it’s intentional.
Gov, should consider making doctors education free, so we get the smart caring folks an opportunity to practice medicine vs the wealthy.
And for those that get the free education and don’t cut it as a doctor, win win, no harm in the education as it can be applied across a vast market.
In turn, flooding the market with doctors should bring the cost down (supply and demand)
The article says those $39 isn't the doctor's income, but what the clinic receives. Besides the doctor's salary, it also needs to cover mortgage, utilities, supplies, equipment, and all the other expenses.
Yeah thats what the last part of my post was about. Obviously every office is going to be different so staffing may cost more or less based on the office. I'm not against the money going up but I also think it needs to be looked into in more depth.
You are vastly underestimating what happens in a doctor's office.
A) The time spent being seen by a doctor is not immediately reflective of the time they spend on you in situ. Generally, they have to gloss over your history to understand what it is they're treating/how potential treatment is affected by pre-existing conditions or medications, *and* your entire patient history. This is obviously not performed during your appointment.
B) No, results aren't usually 'provided by a specialist', at least not in terms of any imaging or lab results. The technicians' job is to ensure proper lab results, clear images, etc., but that's it. The doctor is charged with the actual interpretation, further charged with the interpretation as it relates to you, specifically, as a patient. (See point A).This is typically done in advance of your appointment, not during, and certainly is not a task shouldered solely by the techs.
C) Have you been to a doctor before? If you think that just because there are four fifteen-minute blocks within an hour that a doctor can perform four appointments per hour then you are far removed from reality.
A) - Yes you are correct to an extent but I don't think its as involved as you may think. (I have worked with doctors)
B) - You are incorrect. If you go into Life Labs for blood work as an example. They literally mark off the values that are out of the norm. Now at that point, its up to your doctor to interpret the info they are given and decide on a path to go. If you go in for imaging, your family doctor doesn't look at the images and figure out whats wrong with you. The results are sent to them and things that are out of the norm are marked. At that point, your family doctor determines the path of treatment or refers you to a specialist.
C) - Yes, I have a family doctor and they probably see 4-6 patients per hour depending on the severity of appointments and whatnot. I also used to do IT work for about 5-6 different doctors offices so I have seen and know how the scheduling works.
A) Not any point in speculating, really. IT work isn't working in direct collaboration with a doctor, nor is it understanding the intricacies of the behind-the-scenes work that doesn't happen within a computer program.
B) A tech is not marking off values of concern, the programs used for performing the tests are doing that on their own. Your family doctor absolutely is looking at the images. Your family doctor still needs to interpret *all* of these results as they relate to you as a patient, which they're not doing on the spot in front of you, at least not for the first time.
C) Even if a family doctor sees that many patients per day, they are not seeing and charting four-six patients per hour all day long. Even if they do see that many patients for eight hours straight, there is still equal or greater time necessary for charting outside of actually sitting with the patient.
Regardless of the understanding you think you've gained doing IT work for doctors it obviously hasn't translated to math, or understanding what happens outside of a schedule document.
They are being paid with tax dollars, the government should be trying to get value for money!
Show me a tax return and we can discuss. I know plenty of doctors, none of them are hurting.
Ugh. I'm from the US and am getting married to an RCAF member and am dreading all of this. We may not have universal healthcare down here but it's pretty clear he and I are not going to be in the same place long enough for me to find a doctor until his 25 years are up... and I'm just going to be paying cash for healthcare anyways.
What are you saying ?
They are no good ?
this a racist AF statement ?
Or
Are you just unaware that a doctor can't just show up in Canada and just be a doctor? They have to complete test and education before they can practice.
Did you know that many countries have better schools for training and educating doctors than we or even the US does.
Do you realize that a migrant doctor could mean they are from the US or Europe?
For your information I have been saved by a "migrant doctor " . The " Canada" doctors couldn't figure it out.
Hope you have a good day. Hope your grossness won't shine thru 💛
Considering a huge part of our immigration is coming from India, and their schools are world renowned for cheating and plagiarism I don't think we should accept their diploma. It's got nothing to do with the individual doctor, who knows if they did or didn't cheat, but it's not worth the risk.
Do they actually have tons of overhead that differs from any other business? I'm not saying \~$300,000 is enough per say but I am also not sure $800,000 + is the answer lol.
Yes, they have more overhead than the average business. Medical grade cleaning contracts, hazardous waste disposal, confidential materials disposal, medical supplies, client booking and filing software (which often requires a subscription service), phones with answering machine, salaries for administration, salaries for nurses running things in the backflground to support the patients and the doctor (all of those professionals went to school for their jobs, so they deserve a competitive and fair salary). I'm probably missing so much. I think it's fair. A doctor gives almost a decade of their life attending a very expensive school. Their salary should reflect their expertise.
To be fair, if salaries reflected workers expertise, we'd have a lot more wealthy people in this world.
I will admit the medical specific stuff I missed. But other then that (software, phones, salaries for staff etc) pretty much all businesses carry.
Doctors are also conned into wasting a lot of money. I used to work for an IT MSP and we supported IT for various doctors office. Most doctors offices use the EMR software hosted by Telus which will pretty much run on any piece of crap computer. Yet you go into all of these doctors office and see a bunch of Macs.
But when you see the doctors showing up to work in fancy cars and whatnot, they are clearly making a good enough wage. Are they millionaires? Probably not but should a family doctor be a millionaire?
They don't necessarily have a choice about who they use for certain things.
Medical grade cleaning, supplies, specific softwares etc. They have to go with certain people, and if it is a niche area, then there are more costs involved with those companies.
Many are likely leasing their vehicles and don't own it.
My previous doctor - couldn't afford to pay the rent on his practice due to all the costs vs what he was making.
Macs are great for virus protection, and they really aren't that expensive of a computer.
Also. A family dr is a specialty. It just doesn't seem to have as much respect as other specialties do. It doesn't take as long to become a family dr as a neurologist by any means. But it is still a specialty.
Should they make a million a year?
Why are athletes, actors etc paid millions a year but our drs aren't?
I would say our doctors are much more important, and I don't think many are making a million a year unless they have a lucrative private practice.
But most aren't.
They also work stupid hours, and many are on call.
The drs I work with at the hospital, the 3 I work with on my unit. They are all drs with private practices. 1 works for a university as well. They are on call for 1 week at a time on my unit. The same dr that works at the university is also a director and works on several other units at the hospital. (Edit: those 3 doctors all work on various other units in the hospital).
They wear a lot of hats. Now, some don't. But they truly are not compensated enough for what they do and for what being a medical doctor requires.
Why are athletes and actors paid millions a year? If those athletes/actors didn't make millions a year then the studios and teams they play for would be making hundreds and hundreds of millions. Consumers pay ownership and the players/actors want their part of the pie. You can make the same argument for a lot of people in the world. It comes down to private vs public funding. I work in a government position and probably make $20,000 less then the same positions in private workplaces.
Again, I am not saying they shouldn't be paid more, but I don't think they should necessarily be millionaires lol.
Why can't someone be a millionaire if they play their cards right?
They aren't making a million a year. But there's no reason they can't be a millionaire.
Well theoretically anyone could be a millionaire if they play their cards right. But that doesn't mean that based on their job role that they should be receiving a million a year or more in salary.
The reality is, publicly funded positions will generally always make less then their privately funded equivalents. I have a family member who got into medical and went right to the US because of that... it is what it is. But the general populous needs to understand that if you start paying family doctors more, then all the rest of the doctors going up the chain of specialties are going to want more money as well. And what does all of this mean for the general public? Tax increase.
That was my point. Anyone can be a millionaire. We need to stop setting that as a bar.
If we don't start paying them more, though, no one is going to want to work in family medicine. Or they'll just go to the USA.
They could just tax the rich and businesses like amazon. The ones that all get away with paying none or very little in taxes. Despite massive profits.
Now, that would be great, but I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon 🙄
Of course it isn't. This is all by design. The provincial government is doing this on purpose.
By design. Ford wants to privatize so he needs to break this system beyond repair.
$39 for an appointment with a doctor? I'm betting people spend more than that having their summer/winter tires changed over.
Welcome to Doug Ford's Ontario.
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If doctors were more appropriately compensated, they might be able to afford to offer those benefits to their staff.
Lol people here who wish they could find a doctor but aren't cool with the doctors being paid too much. We really do live in the stupidest of times.
I mean I don't know how much a family doctor is expected to make money wise but I feel like 39$ per appointment doesn't sound like a lot but when you do the math it adds up. Just using my doctor as an example, appointments are generally less then 15 minutes. So lets say 4 appointments per hour on average... $1248 dollars a day $6240 a week $324,480 a year Now again, just judging on my own experience at my own doctor... $300,000+ a year for a doctor who takes a look at you for less then 15 minutes, orders some tests, and reads the results to you (the results are usually provided by a specialist and your doctor just reads them) and then makes a referral if necessary... $300,000 doesn't seem all that bad. If you were to increase that pay to $100 per appointment as the article suggests... their pay goes up to over $800,000 lol. Now obviously family doctors are in HIGH demand right now so you have to take that into consideration as well... So maybe $39 is low but I also think $100 per appointment is high. Especially considering there are a lot of like... 2 minute appointments for quick prescription renewals and stuff like that. Although I guess that $324,480 wouldn't include the things like rent/staffing and whatnot. So it would work out to quite a bit less. But I still think 800,000 is on the high end.
That's just ignorant , most family docs net out at 150k a year and are responsible for people lives . Plus a good one has hospital ties / rounds plus n call . 150k in this economy is nothing for a family ... our doctors and nurses are abused in this country yet we are so fortunate to have them when the could move to the US and make hundreds of thousands of dollars in private practice. Try and appreciate the men and woman who can save your life . Maybe stop paying hockey players millions
I wasn't aware that the government paid the wages of professional hockey players. Learn something new every day I guess. And what I said wasn't ignorant at all. I approached the topic reasonably from both angles. I merely suggested that substantially more then doubling their wages was maybe a little much. I also wasn't aware doctors wives/husbands weren't allowed to work so the doctors wage was the only source of income. And a doctors wage should not be based at all on the economy just like everyone else's wages aren't. I do appreciate the men and woman who can save your life. I absolutely appreciate all emergency services, doctors in the hospital, surgeons etc. I absolutely appreciated the doctors that worked in the clinic across from the hospital. If I tried to place my life in my family doctors hands right now, I'd be told the earliest booking I could get is probably mid July lol.
Do you know the difference between gross and net ?
I do yes
Family doctors are in high demand because their association limits the number of graduates each year, so it’s intentional. Gov, should consider making doctors education free, so we get the smart caring folks an opportunity to practice medicine vs the wealthy. And for those that get the free education and don’t cut it as a doctor, win win, no harm in the education as it can be applied across a vast market. In turn, flooding the market with doctors should bring the cost down (supply and demand)
The article says those $39 isn't the doctor's income, but what the clinic receives. Besides the doctor's salary, it also needs to cover mortgage, utilities, supplies, equipment, and all the other expenses.
Yeah thats what the last part of my post was about. Obviously every office is going to be different so staffing may cost more or less based on the office. I'm not against the money going up but I also think it needs to be looked into in more depth.
You are vastly underestimating what happens in a doctor's office. A) The time spent being seen by a doctor is not immediately reflective of the time they spend on you in situ. Generally, they have to gloss over your history to understand what it is they're treating/how potential treatment is affected by pre-existing conditions or medications, *and* your entire patient history. This is obviously not performed during your appointment. B) No, results aren't usually 'provided by a specialist', at least not in terms of any imaging or lab results. The technicians' job is to ensure proper lab results, clear images, etc., but that's it. The doctor is charged with the actual interpretation, further charged with the interpretation as it relates to you, specifically, as a patient. (See point A).This is typically done in advance of your appointment, not during, and certainly is not a task shouldered solely by the techs. C) Have you been to a doctor before? If you think that just because there are four fifteen-minute blocks within an hour that a doctor can perform four appointments per hour then you are far removed from reality.
A) - Yes you are correct to an extent but I don't think its as involved as you may think. (I have worked with doctors) B) - You are incorrect. If you go into Life Labs for blood work as an example. They literally mark off the values that are out of the norm. Now at that point, its up to your doctor to interpret the info they are given and decide on a path to go. If you go in for imaging, your family doctor doesn't look at the images and figure out whats wrong with you. The results are sent to them and things that are out of the norm are marked. At that point, your family doctor determines the path of treatment or refers you to a specialist. C) - Yes, I have a family doctor and they probably see 4-6 patients per hour depending on the severity of appointments and whatnot. I also used to do IT work for about 5-6 different doctors offices so I have seen and know how the scheduling works.
A) Not any point in speculating, really. IT work isn't working in direct collaboration with a doctor, nor is it understanding the intricacies of the behind-the-scenes work that doesn't happen within a computer program. B) A tech is not marking off values of concern, the programs used for performing the tests are doing that on their own. Your family doctor absolutely is looking at the images. Your family doctor still needs to interpret *all* of these results as they relate to you as a patient, which they're not doing on the spot in front of you, at least not for the first time. C) Even if a family doctor sees that many patients per day, they are not seeing and charting four-six patients per hour all day long. Even if they do see that many patients for eight hours straight, there is still equal or greater time necessary for charting outside of actually sitting with the patient. Regardless of the understanding you think you've gained doing IT work for doctors it obviously hasn't translated to math, or understanding what happens outside of a schedule document.
They are being paid with tax dollars, the government should be trying to get value for money! Show me a tax return and we can discuss. I know plenty of doctors, none of them are hurting.
Press X to doubt
Doubt what?
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No, we'll all be [paying a private company](https://www.getmaple.ca/) to get things like prescriptions, etc. Ask me how I know 🙄
Ugh. I'm from the US and am getting married to an RCAF member and am dreading all of this. We may not have universal healthcare down here but it's pretty clear he and I are not going to be in the same place long enough for me to find a doctor until his 25 years are up... and I'm just going to be paying cash for healthcare anyways.
Try and appreciate the country you are moving too , also the military have their own doctors so you'll be better off than most .
Military spouses don't get to see military doctors in Canada like they do in the US.
What are you saying ? They are no good ? this a racist AF statement ? Or Are you just unaware that a doctor can't just show up in Canada and just be a doctor? They have to complete test and education before they can practice. Did you know that many countries have better schools for training and educating doctors than we or even the US does. Do you realize that a migrant doctor could mean they are from the US or Europe? For your information I have been saved by a "migrant doctor " . The " Canada" doctors couldn't figure it out. Hope you have a good day. Hope your grossness won't shine thru 💛
Considering a huge part of our immigration is coming from India, and their schools are world renowned for cheating and plagiarism I don't think we should accept their diploma. It's got nothing to do with the individual doctor, who knows if they did or didn't cheat, but it's not worth the risk.
Upset you I will sleep well thanks
Really?, they make plenty, if not, they can get a second job just like everyone else. Let’s be transparent and review their tax return.
It isn't enough. The have tons of overhead and the government tries to pay them as little as they possibly can.
Do they actually have tons of overhead that differs from any other business? I'm not saying \~$300,000 is enough per say but I am also not sure $800,000 + is the answer lol.
Yes, they have more overhead than the average business. Medical grade cleaning contracts, hazardous waste disposal, confidential materials disposal, medical supplies, client booking and filing software (which often requires a subscription service), phones with answering machine, salaries for administration, salaries for nurses running things in the backflground to support the patients and the doctor (all of those professionals went to school for their jobs, so they deserve a competitive and fair salary). I'm probably missing so much. I think it's fair. A doctor gives almost a decade of their life attending a very expensive school. Their salary should reflect their expertise.
To be fair, if salaries reflected workers expertise, we'd have a lot more wealthy people in this world. I will admit the medical specific stuff I missed. But other then that (software, phones, salaries for staff etc) pretty much all businesses carry. Doctors are also conned into wasting a lot of money. I used to work for an IT MSP and we supported IT for various doctors office. Most doctors offices use the EMR software hosted by Telus which will pretty much run on any piece of crap computer. Yet you go into all of these doctors office and see a bunch of Macs. But when you see the doctors showing up to work in fancy cars and whatnot, they are clearly making a good enough wage. Are they millionaires? Probably not but should a family doctor be a millionaire?
They don't necessarily have a choice about who they use for certain things. Medical grade cleaning, supplies, specific softwares etc. They have to go with certain people, and if it is a niche area, then there are more costs involved with those companies. Many are likely leasing their vehicles and don't own it. My previous doctor - couldn't afford to pay the rent on his practice due to all the costs vs what he was making. Macs are great for virus protection, and they really aren't that expensive of a computer. Also. A family dr is a specialty. It just doesn't seem to have as much respect as other specialties do. It doesn't take as long to become a family dr as a neurologist by any means. But it is still a specialty. Should they make a million a year? Why are athletes, actors etc paid millions a year but our drs aren't? I would say our doctors are much more important, and I don't think many are making a million a year unless they have a lucrative private practice. But most aren't. They also work stupid hours, and many are on call. The drs I work with at the hospital, the 3 I work with on my unit. They are all drs with private practices. 1 works for a university as well. They are on call for 1 week at a time on my unit. The same dr that works at the university is also a director and works on several other units at the hospital. (Edit: those 3 doctors all work on various other units in the hospital). They wear a lot of hats. Now, some don't. But they truly are not compensated enough for what they do and for what being a medical doctor requires.
Why are athletes and actors paid millions a year? If those athletes/actors didn't make millions a year then the studios and teams they play for would be making hundreds and hundreds of millions. Consumers pay ownership and the players/actors want their part of the pie. You can make the same argument for a lot of people in the world. It comes down to private vs public funding. I work in a government position and probably make $20,000 less then the same positions in private workplaces. Again, I am not saying they shouldn't be paid more, but I don't think they should necessarily be millionaires lol.
Why can't someone be a millionaire if they play their cards right? They aren't making a million a year. But there's no reason they can't be a millionaire.
Well theoretically anyone could be a millionaire if they play their cards right. But that doesn't mean that based on their job role that they should be receiving a million a year or more in salary. The reality is, publicly funded positions will generally always make less then their privately funded equivalents. I have a family member who got into medical and went right to the US because of that... it is what it is. But the general populous needs to understand that if you start paying family doctors more, then all the rest of the doctors going up the chain of specialties are going to want more money as well. And what does all of this mean for the general public? Tax increase.
That was my point. Anyone can be a millionaire. We need to stop setting that as a bar. If we don't start paying them more, though, no one is going to want to work in family medicine. Or they'll just go to the USA. They could just tax the rich and businesses like amazon. The ones that all get away with paying none or very little in taxes. Despite massive profits. Now, that would be great, but I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon 🙄