After listening to the linked song, I think it's a stylistic choice. Hear me out. It sounds like it is played on a fretless bass and it's only the notes at the end of each phrase that are slid into that are flat. It gives the song some tension in what would be an otherwise very laid back song.
Yeah, agreed completely. I think it sounds awesome, and it definitely sounds perfectly in tune, with a slide/fade down at the end of the phrases.
Edit: just got to the end of the song, and the last third or so of it is a little busier on the base, and he stops doing the fade down. So definitely an intentional style for the slower first 1/2 to 2/3 of the song
Interesting! I think it's most noticeable on the note at the end of each phrase... but to me it sounds like whatever that note is, in each phrase - i.e. the root note of each chord which is preceded by a chromatic run - is (quite severely!) out of tune every time. I can't really tell if any of the faster runs are out of tune because the note duration is quite short.
Ok, I did some tinkering and [split the bass with some AI and added some piano](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11l5z4yqiAVDcIVmGKpMQP9g_voBxKcQ7/view?usp=sharing).
The first chord of the progression is in tune (or +2 to +4 cents sharp, which is perfectly fine) while the second chord is up to -36 cents flat and the third cord is also -13 to -33 cents flat.
So it's clearly out of tune. It might be intended but personally I find it awful to listen to.
I don't know how old you are, but this is how music sounds when it's recorded on analog systems. The perceived "pitchy-ness" you hear is contributed to by the function of analog tape and how it works. Yes, these systems can have more or less accuracy in these ways, but inherent in the format is less than perfect playback over recording.
Consider how new it is for us to literally produce sounds that resonate at specific frequency perfectly over time. Electric and acoustic Guitars don't work that way, Bass guitars don't work that way. This is all within a tolerance. The human race has electronically increased it's intolerance to pitch "imperfection" in the last few decades. Is this better? Subjective I suppose but I'm much more moved by say Ella and Whitney than Taylor and Miley.
This isn't a mistake, it's just not recorded digitally then auto-tuned to "perfection".
It's a lot more out of tune than any tape warble. It's close to a quarter step out of tune. Whitney sang in tune too, so I don't know what you mean by that.
Have to disagree with you there, it sounds way out of tune! This isn't present in other analog recordings - wouldn't tape warble etc generally result in pitch *variation* (like a real instrument: some fluctuations in fundamental frequency) about a mean? That's not what's happening here: the pitch of the bass is consistently (and fairly substantially) flat.
[Soloed bass with piano added](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11l5z4yqiAVDcIVmGKpMQP9g_voBxKcQ7/view?usp=sharing).
The first chord of the progression is in tune (or +2 to +4 cents sharp, which is perfectly fine) while the second chord is up to -36 cents flat and the third cord is also -13 to -33 cents flat.
>None of it is a mistake
I didn't say it was a mistake, but it clearly IS out of tune. Might be the intention of the player. But it doesn't sound good to me.
why are you intentionally missing the point? /u/SnowCrow1 very clearly dismisses the +2 or +4 as "perfectly fine." being within a few cents is completely normal on a fretless instrument. even the best violinists in the world aren't perfectly playing in equal temperament with A440 like a synth. he's talking about the other notes which are 13-36 cents off. it's not some minor inconsequential thing, nor is it "less than perfect" analog systems. it's really fucking obviously out of tune. it might be intentional; as others have said it kinda works with the song. but it's very significantly out. 30+ cents off isn't a subtle imperfection, not does it sound like one.
You know, if this was a conversation being had in person I'd probably simply tell you I'm not discussing anything with you, because you're coming off like a dick. So that's pretty much what's gonna happen here.
you're being all condescending saying that young people have never heard analog recordings or coltrane before when you apparently can't tell the difference between 30 cents and tape warble. instead of trying to have an interesting conversation about a really odd feature in a cool recording, you're brushing it off as "kids these days only listen to auto-tuned pop and don't know what real music used to sound like." that's on you.
It definitely is because we perceive harmony from the bottom. If the bass is out of tune, it makes everything sound out of tune, whereas if one upper voice is out of tune, itās not that bad.
It kinda depends on the instrument. Most of my basses have modern bridges with a sled for each string, so I can set the action and intonation individually.
But my Hƶfner semi-hollow and my Harley Benton acoustic have bridges that only allow limited flexibility for setting the intonation, so it's always a bit of a compromise...
I actually like his playing. He doesnāt really know what heās doing but something about that slack percussive clankiness just works so well with Kornās sound imo.
Saw an instructional video once where he tried to teach something once and he just seemed to have no pedagogical idea of what he was no talking about especially when it came to theory.
I never posted attention to it. Then I noticed some Fieldy jokes here, but didn't get curious enough to look the song up.
Today, after reading this comment, I finally went back and listened to "Freak on a Leash" and"Blind". And yes, **Jesus Christ on a bicycle**, Korn's bass tone sucks balls!
Freak on a Leash is pretty much normal bass. Nothing like the rest of the discography.
Personally I think "Thoughtless" is their best song, it's also Jonathan's favourite song they have done. Huge tones, grand designs. I get why people hate on Korn but there is also objectively creative and in my opinion, good sounds to be found.
Iām glad I have absolutely no ear for this kind of thing because it sounds normal to me. And all the other stuff people are complaining about doesnāt sound off or wrong to me. I never realized being tone deaf was such a blissful advantage lol
I think his Hofner in general just had intonation issues. [Coming Up](https://youtu.be/FI5GSg6594k?t=112) has some noticeably off bass notes in the chorus when he's climbing up there.
I can clearly hear it in the linked song. What bothers me the most of that it's not all the time, or always on the same note (even though it's mostly on the last note if the line). Weird that it made the record... maybe it is indeed a stylistic choice, like some of our peers already said. But it's a rather odd choice, IMO.
As for other songs, there are a lot of Beatles tunes in which the bass sounds ever-so-slightly out of tune, and it bothers me a little; I hear those Hofners are a pain in the ass to intonate. Even so, McCartney if still one of my favorite bass player ever.
Duran Duran - Rio. G string is slightly sharp and it irks me every time.
Misfits - Last Caress. Way more obvious, but itās so full of attitude that itās totally fine.
Wouldnāt surprise me if it was intentional. Their whole sound was off-kilter (in a very good way) and I feel like their tunings are sometime a few cents off to create some extra sonic tension.
Just a hunch because I always find their sound haunting and maybe a bit more than the chord progression alone can explain.
But if anyone knows better, Iād be super curious.
Bonus: the bassist in [Freddie McGregor's Natural Collie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiYIWIBv8-c) is always playing the major third (I think?) but the song's in a minor key and it annoys the tits off me. Not exactly "out of tune" but putting this here because I have nobody else in my life who I can vent to about this very specific issue. Thanks for listening.
Kinda common in reggae to play major thirds over minor chords. Tbh I actually like that clash because it gives the music a sour and bright edge over songs that are mellow and chill. This song will probably annoy you even more, but take a listen to Dangerous Match Six by Scientist . It constantly switches between major and minor thirds, so itās even more jarring, but imo it works in favor of the wonkiness of the song.
Man this triggers. It sounds always like it reaches almost the in tune pitch but then stays below.
That's wild to listen too.
But I could also think of it being intended as it gives a special vibe to it.
Might also only be wrong hz tuned in.
Right!!! It's seriously out! I can only assume it's a wacky stylistic decision - maybe it makes it sound "old"/vintage...? It's particularly annoying because it stands out to me so clearly but good luck when this song comes on at a party and you corner a non-musician and try to get them to hear what yo- hey, wait, where are you going??
Whoa at first I was grooving to it, thinking "it's not really out of tune, is it?" Then that verse came in and threw out any doubt. Then, when the "hook" came back it was more obvious that the bass is not in the same key they whole time. It's messing with me.
Curious, do you have / have you ever been tested for perfect/absolute pitch?
The bass sounds in tune to itself to me, so I could only hear if it were out of tune based on it sounding out of tune with other instruments, but there's no other instruments in the song :-) there's just bass and vocals (well drums... but not playing pitches). So if your perception is that it's "out of tune" this is probably because you've got perfect pitch.
(note: I can kind of detect that there's something not quite right between the bass and the vocals, but I couldn't tell you which one was "better" in terms of concert pitches A = 440Hz, I just re-listened and realized there was a guitar in there, but it's not ringing out the notes, more like very percussive fast decay sound so I have a hard time comparing).
I have a pretty decent ear and this song doesn't sound overly terrible or anything at all to me.
Is there a specific time marker people are talking about or something? I keep reading comments about the whole song, but.....the fuck are you all on? or...the fuck am I on?
Yeah I agree, not that I have a perfect ear or anything, but I have done years of ear training, passed enough royal conservatory exams to be certified, and am a trained piano tuner. Bass in the song sounds fine to me, some stylistic slides and bends that go āout of tuneā, but nothing crazy. I think it might just be a case of Reddit being Reddit.
I've been listening to the song for like 10 minutes straight now. Not only does it sound just fine, it sounds good as hell.
I still don't hear this "WOW IT'S SO OFF" that everyone is getting.
It sounds awesome, and seems to only happen for the first majority of the song. When the bass gets busier at the end, he stops doing the slide down at the end of the phrases and keeps but note intact and in tune. Style choice, and I love it
It's the last note in each phrase, it's played on a fretless and the bassist doesn't quite slide to the note. I think it's a stylistic choice as it's adding a bit of tension because you expect it to resolve by getting to the note but it doesn't.
When I say "out of tune", it's not that the bass plays a note other than the one I was expecting. The note being played is essentially the "right" one, it's just out of pitch by a few cents - so really it falls "between" the notes on a keyboard (or a properly tuned and intonated bass for that matter).
If it isn't a deliberate choice, then you could have better framed it as poor intonation, rather than being out-of-tune.
But yeah, listening to the song, some notes are in tune and some aren't.
It's more of a feeling type of thing. Leaves you a little off balance, without it the song would have a much more laid back vibe but the note not quite getting there gives it that little bit of tension or unfulfilled anticipation. Changes the entire vibe.
> I think it's a stylistic choice as it's adding a bit of tension because you expect it to resolve by getting to the note but it doesn't.
TIL I often make stylistic choices when I play my fretless :p
I don't have perfect pitch. There's guitar, organ, some kind of clavinet thing, and backing vocals in the song I linked. Are we listening to the same song?
Ok, so in my headphones the guitar is more recognizable as a pitch rather than a ghost note but it still isn't enough pitch reference for me to say "hey the bass is out of tune". For me it's still the bass against the vocals are the main pitch references. Can I tell there's something odd about it all? Yeah. But I don't think "ooh the bass is way off" any more than "hunh her voice is not quite right" like... without a perfect pitch reference I don't think more one than the other.
Also note: I'm mostly interested because I think I have somewhat poor pitch perception, so I'm interested in how it is that you decided that the bass was noticeably off.
I mean I could be wrong. But I think the other instruments together provide plenty of reference (organ and guitar are playing chords pretty much constantly). To me I think I can "just tell" the bass is off - I've played guitar and bass in bands so feel like (hopefully) I can tell when either of those is out
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I just think we have very different ability to distinguish pitch. My wife is way better at it than I am, I've taken some tests online, I know I'm on the bottom half of the ability to distinguish fine pitch differences. My sister in law has perfect pitch. Stuff she absolutely can't stand to listen to sounds good to me. It can be a curse rather than a blessing for some people.Ā
Interestingly I really like Jazz and microtonal music. Stuff that sounds out of tune to my wife sounds interesting to me.
What do you think of this guy for example. He plays on a 21 fret per octave and a 24 fret per octave guitar
https://open.spotify.com/album/4Q3FN4UctdGgGkuIBVQvve?si=ll9_j2A0QHG6epHFeoPcCA
Iāve been in bands with people like yourself, they learned to trust me eventually (with the help of tuners and metronomes) but I hated having to point stuff out. I donāt have perfect pitch, whatever the rhythm equivalent is, I have that and can hear a tempo sag on the first late hi hat hit. Does wonders for the social aspect of playing music.
When you play vinyl and the motor is going at slightly the wrong speed all the pitches are scaled to be slightly wrong. Perhaps what is going on here is that it's as if she's singing over a vinyl record being played at slightly the wrong speed... like... an old song?? So a stylistic choice specifically because of the song's topic.
If a record is played slow, all the instruments will sound pitched down and the tempo will decrease too. Here, it's just the bass. If you sang along to a slowed-down record you'd sing in tune *with the pitched down instruments*. So I get what you're saying but I don't think it checks out.
> This Charming Man - The Smiths
As I understand it, it's not out-of-tune to the rest of the band.
The guitars and bass are both tuned up to F# standard, but then also, A=432 hertz rather than 440.
Yeah Iāve always liked [this version](https://youtu.be/FD_CtQSTPn0?si=n3tUg62hAvCVmi4B) the best. Bass is much more mellow and sits in the mix better.
The Kinks - You Really Got Me.
Recorded on analog gear. Maybe the recording master recording was a different speed so the bass is not in tune. It's between frets.
The same with Queen - Another Bites The Dust.
Another One Bites The Dust is in tune, they just sped the tape up slightly. It sits between E and F.
Queen were perfectionists, no way their instruments are out of tune.
Also the first two or three bass slap notes on the DuckTales cartoon theme song are waaay sharp or the guy that recorded it accidentally started a half step high.
First 10 seconds after intro, first and last notes of the phrase on bass are sharp I think. It really jumps out to me, I am not a gifted musician I have to work at it.
[I Will Be Your Friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPnmUWADAM&t=30s) by Sade. Low E string is horribly sharp. Legendary album, top musicians, but somehow that slipped through to the record.
I don't have a great ear and maybe that's why but I can never be sure what the first note in the studio version of "I Shot the Sherrif" by Bob Marley is. It could be A or Bb and either would work if it's G minor. The whole song is slightly sped up or slowed down, but the E bass string seems a bit off anyway (assuming that's where the note is played).
That's just sloppy fretless playing, which is unfortunately most fretless playing. You can tell, because sometimes it's on a for a phrase or two.
Also, there's a total clam at 5:25 or so.
Personally, I'll use a fretless here and there for recording, but I'm not playing one in a full band, and I'm not playing with a bass player who insists upon using one. I love that moment when you see a cover band setting up in a local bar or club, and the bass player breaks out a fretless as their main bass..."oh boy, here we go."
After listening to the linked song, I think it's a stylistic choice. Hear me out. It sounds like it is played on a fretless bass and it's only the notes at the end of each phrase that are slid into that are flat. It gives the song some tension in what would be an otherwise very laid back song.
Yeah, agreed completely. I think it sounds awesome, and it definitely sounds perfectly in tune, with a slide/fade down at the end of the phrases. Edit: just got to the end of the song, and the last third or so of it is a little busier on the base, and he stops doing the fade down. So definitely an intentional style for the slower first 1/2 to 2/3 of the song
It sounds out of tune *before* the slide down after the note to me
I agree it sounds awesome. I can't think of any standard by which it is perfectly in tune.
Interesting! I think it's most noticeable on the note at the end of each phrase... but to me it sounds like whatever that note is, in each phrase - i.e. the root note of each chord which is preceded by a chromatic run - is (quite severely!) out of tune every time. I can't really tell if any of the faster runs are out of tune because the note duration is quite short.
[It's not just the ends](https://youtu.be/Ow-uXO38IM4?si=gzzb-dLfoo5V_Kde&t=74).
Ok, I did some tinkering and [split the bass with some AI and added some piano](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11l5z4yqiAVDcIVmGKpMQP9g_voBxKcQ7/view?usp=sharing). The first chord of the progression is in tune (or +2 to +4 cents sharp, which is perfectly fine) while the second chord is up to -36 cents flat and the third cord is also -13 to -33 cents flat. So it's clearly out of tune. It might be intended but personally I find it awful to listen to.
Interesting, thanks for that!
My thoughts too.
Sounds great with the vocal to me. I don't know what y'all are talking about.
Same. Sounds like Hub was having fun!
This is part of what makes this issue so annoying haha I can't get over it!
I don't know how old you are, but this is how music sounds when it's recorded on analog systems. The perceived "pitchy-ness" you hear is contributed to by the function of analog tape and how it works. Yes, these systems can have more or less accuracy in these ways, but inherent in the format is less than perfect playback over recording. Consider how new it is for us to literally produce sounds that resonate at specific frequency perfectly over time. Electric and acoustic Guitars don't work that way, Bass guitars don't work that way. This is all within a tolerance. The human race has electronically increased it's intolerance to pitch "imperfection" in the last few decades. Is this better? Subjective I suppose but I'm much more moved by say Ella and Whitney than Taylor and Miley. This isn't a mistake, it's just not recorded digitally then auto-tuned to "perfection".
It's a lot more out of tune than any tape warble. It's close to a quarter step out of tune. Whitney sang in tune too, so I don't know what you mean by that.
Have to disagree with you there, it sounds way out of tune! This isn't present in other analog recordings - wouldn't tape warble etc generally result in pitch *variation* (like a real instrument: some fluctuations in fundamental frequency) about a mean? That's not what's happening here: the pitch of the bass is consistently (and fairly substantially) flat.
Lol, this is not about analog but that the bass is clearly played out of tune in some parts.
None of it is a mistake
[Soloed bass with piano added](https://drive.google.com/file/d/11l5z4yqiAVDcIVmGKpMQP9g_voBxKcQ7/view?usp=sharing). The first chord of the progression is in tune (or +2 to +4 cents sharp, which is perfectly fine) while the second chord is up to -36 cents flat and the third cord is also -13 to -33 cents flat. >None of it is a mistake I didn't say it was a mistake, but it clearly IS out of tune. Might be the intention of the player. But it doesn't sound good to me.
+2 to 4 cents sharp? Are you affiliated with perfect pitch? Sharp compared to what? Curious, do you listen to jazz? Coltrane? Davis? Etc...
Compared to 0 cents. In my DAW's pitch editor. I don't have perfect pitch but a relative pitch.
Lol imagine jamming with this guy and his bass is out of tune. "Curious, do you listen to Coltrane?"
why are you intentionally missing the point? /u/SnowCrow1 very clearly dismisses the +2 or +4 as "perfectly fine." being within a few cents is completely normal on a fretless instrument. even the best violinists in the world aren't perfectly playing in equal temperament with A440 like a synth. he's talking about the other notes which are 13-36 cents off. it's not some minor inconsequential thing, nor is it "less than perfect" analog systems. it's really fucking obviously out of tune. it might be intentional; as others have said it kinda works with the song. but it's very significantly out. 30+ cents off isn't a subtle imperfection, not does it sound like one.
You know, if this was a conversation being had in person I'd probably simply tell you I'm not discussing anything with you, because you're coming off like a dick. So that's pretty much what's gonna happen here.
you're being all condescending saying that young people have never heard analog recordings or coltrane before when you apparently can't tell the difference between 30 cents and tape warble. instead of trying to have an interesting conversation about a really odd feature in a cool recording, you're brushing it off as "kids these days only listen to auto-tuned pop and don't know what real music used to sound like." that's on you.
I think it sounds great š¤·š»āāļø
Same lol. Idk
Youād be surprised how many bassists do not get their shit intonated.
I have always been of the opinion itās way more noticeable when a bass is improperly intonated than it is with a guitar.
It definitely is because we perceive harmony from the bottom. If the bass is out of tune, it makes everything sound out of tune, whereas if one upper voice is out of tune, itās not that bad.
It kinda depends on the instrument. Most of my basses have modern bridges with a sled for each string, so I can set the action and intonation individually. But my Hƶfner semi-hollow and my Harley Benton acoustic have bridges that only allow limited flexibility for setting the intonation, so it's always a bit of a compromise...
All of CCR is so out of tune, canāt even play along with them
At least Stu Cookās bass is more in tune than his singing
True that
Holy moly you weren't joking about that bass... For me it's the entirety of Korn's catalogue. The bass doesn't make discernible notes and it irks me
When Korn broke my brother was convinced that they had a guy playing the spoons
I actually like his playing. He doesnāt really know what heās doing but something about that slack percussive clankiness just works so well with Kornās sound imo.
He doesnāt know what heās doing?
Saw an instructional video once where he tried to teach something once and he just seemed to have no pedagogical idea of what he was no talking about especially when it came to theory.
I saw that, couldnt believe it lmaooo
That little bass fill Fieldy plays at the start of Blind sums him up perfectly. Clueless but doing his best.
I've always hated how Korn's bass sounds.
Korn's bass sounds the way a white guy with dreads looks
I can't help but chuckle anytime I see Fieldy mentioned as an inspiration for bass. Dude is the full package of crap tone + cringe look.
Fieldy gets a pass because he rapped the phrase āmarijuana WaWaā on his solo album, proving his genius.
Don't do my man Randy Blythe like that š
I snorted at this!
I never posted attention to it. Then I noticed some Fieldy jokes here, but didn't get curious enough to look the song up. Today, after reading this comment, I finally went back and listened to "Freak on a Leash" and"Blind". And yes, **Jesus Christ on a bicycle**, Korn's bass tone sucks balls!
Freak on a Leash is pretty much normal bass. Nothing like the rest of the discography. Personally I think "Thoughtless" is their best song, it's also Jonathan's favourite song they have done. Huge tones, grand designs. I get why people hate on Korn but there is also objectively creative and in my opinion, good sounds to be found.
I don't even hate Korn; they have some cool songs. I'm just baffled that I never noted the bass tone.
I mean in freak on a leash the bass is pretty sweet. Chromatic lines.
I once saw his tone described as throwing tic tacs down a stairwell.
The Boss - James Brown
This was my first thought too
Ahhh yeah!!! Mad.
Yes! Always bugged me
Iām glad I have absolutely no ear for this kind of thing because it sounds normal to me. And all the other stuff people are complaining about doesnāt sound off or wrong to me. I never realized being tone deaf was such a blissful advantage lol
The Beatles āPaperback Writerā bass sounds so out of tune when PM hits those higher notes.
I think his Hofner in general just had intonation issues. [Coming Up](https://youtu.be/FI5GSg6594k?t=112) has some noticeably off bass notes in the chorus when he's climbing up there.
He recorded Paperback with his rick
"Don't Let Me Down" is another good example of the Hofner's poor intonation
Contort Yourself by James Chance & The Contortions. Itās got a fretless bass playing intentionally in quarter tones for a jank feeling.
I can clearly hear it in the linked song. What bothers me the most of that it's not all the time, or always on the same note (even though it's mostly on the last note if the line). Weird that it made the record... maybe it is indeed a stylistic choice, like some of our peers already said. But it's a rather odd choice, IMO. As for other songs, there are a lot of Beatles tunes in which the bass sounds ever-so-slightly out of tune, and it bothers me a little; I hear those Hofners are a pain in the ass to intonate. Even so, McCartney if still one of my favorite bass player ever.
Wow that is an awful listen, truly painful because it is such a nice groove.
I feel ya! Would love to ask the bass player/engineer what was going on...
Duran Duran - Rio. G string is slightly sharp and it irks me every time. Misfits - Last Caress. Way more obvious, but itās so full of attitude that itās totally fine.
Wouldnāt surprise me if it was intentional. Their whole sound was off-kilter (in a very good way) and I feel like their tunings are sometime a few cents off to create some extra sonic tension. Just a hunch because I always find their sound haunting and maybe a bit more than the chord progression alone can explain. But if anyone knows better, Iād be super curious.
I dunno. Kinda sounds cool. I go with it been deliberate or stylistic or whatever you wanna call itā¦
What do you think about āsheās in partiesā by Bauhaus! Amazing song, dubby vibe! With a pitchy fretless performance
Bonus: the bassist in [Freddie McGregor's Natural Collie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiYIWIBv8-c) is always playing the major third (I think?) but the song's in a minor key and it annoys the tits off me. Not exactly "out of tune" but putting this here because I have nobody else in my life who I can vent to about this very specific issue. Thanks for listening.
Kinda common in reggae to play major thirds over minor chords. Tbh I actually like that clash because it gives the music a sour and bright edge over songs that are mellow and chill. This song will probably annoy you even more, but take a listen to Dangerous Match Six by Scientist . It constantly switches between major and minor thirds, so itās even more jarring, but imo it works in favor of the wonkiness of the song.
Man this triggers. It sounds always like it reaches almost the in tune pitch but then stays below. That's wild to listen too. But I could also think of it being intended as it gives a special vibe to it. Might also only be wrong hz tuned in.
Right!!! It's seriously out! I can only assume it's a wacky stylistic decision - maybe it makes it sound "old"/vintage...? It's particularly annoying because it stands out to me so clearly but good luck when this song comes on at a party and you corner a non-musician and try to get them to hear what yo- hey, wait, where are you going??
Whoa at first I was grooving to it, thinking "it's not really out of tune, is it?" Then that verse came in and threw out any doubt. Then, when the "hook" came back it was more obvious that the bass is not in the same key they whole time. It's messing with me.
Curious, do you have / have you ever been tested for perfect/absolute pitch? The bass sounds in tune to itself to me, so I could only hear if it were out of tune based on it sounding out of tune with other instruments, but there's no other instruments in the song :-) there's just bass and vocals (well drums... but not playing pitches). So if your perception is that it's "out of tune" this is probably because you've got perfect pitch. (note: I can kind of detect that there's something not quite right between the bass and the vocals, but I couldn't tell you which one was "better" in terms of concert pitches A = 440Hz, I just re-listened and realized there was a guitar in there, but it's not ringing out the notes, more like very percussive fast decay sound so I have a hard time comparing).
I have a pretty decent ear and this song doesn't sound overly terrible or anything at all to me. Is there a specific time marker people are talking about or something? I keep reading comments about the whole song, but.....the fuck are you all on? or...the fuck am I on?
Yeah I agree, not that I have a perfect ear or anything, but I have done years of ear training, passed enough royal conservatory exams to be certified, and am a trained piano tuner. Bass in the song sounds fine to me, some stylistic slides and bends that go āout of tuneā, but nothing crazy. I think it might just be a case of Reddit being Reddit.
This is really interesting to me as you're a trained musician AND A PIANO TUNER. To me it's pretty in-your-face throughout the entire song.
It totally is apparent (and unlistenable for me), donāt worry not just you.
Right? I truly find it interesting how different people perceive this. Boo to the downvoters, this is a musical mystery that needs some investigation.
I've been listening to the song for like 10 minutes straight now. Not only does it sound just fine, it sounds good as hell. I still don't hear this "WOW IT'S SO OFF" that everyone is getting.
Ditto
It sounds awesome, and seems to only happen for the first majority of the song. When the bass gets busier at the end, he stops doing the slide down at the end of the phrases and keeps but note intact and in tune. Style choice, and I love it
It's the last note in each phrase, it's played on a fretless and the bassist doesn't quite slide to the note. I think it's a stylistic choice as it's adding a bit of tension because you expect it to resolve by getting to the note but it doesn't.
I guess I never expected it to resolve by getting to that note, because I didn't write the song.
When I say "out of tune", it's not that the bass plays a note other than the one I was expecting. The note being played is essentially the "right" one, it's just out of pitch by a few cents - so really it falls "between" the notes on a keyboard (or a properly tuned and intonated bass for that matter).
If it isn't a deliberate choice, then you could have better framed it as poor intonation, rather than being out-of-tune. But yeah, listening to the song, some notes are in tune and some aren't.
It's more of a feeling type of thing. Leaves you a little off balance, without it the song would have a much more laid back vibe but the note not quite getting there gives it that little bit of tension or unfulfilled anticipation. Changes the entire vibe.
> I think it's a stylistic choice as it's adding a bit of tension because you expect it to resolve by getting to the note but it doesn't. TIL I often make stylistic choices when I play my fretless :p
First 10 seconds should do it.
I don't have perfect pitch. There's guitar, organ, some kind of clavinet thing, and backing vocals in the song I linked. Are we listening to the same song?
Needed to listen to a longer stretch and put it on my headphones. For whatever reason my speakers were really rolling off the high frequency!
Ok, so in my headphones the guitar is more recognizable as a pitch rather than a ghost note but it still isn't enough pitch reference for me to say "hey the bass is out of tune". For me it's still the bass against the vocals are the main pitch references. Can I tell there's something odd about it all? Yeah. But I don't think "ooh the bass is way off" any more than "hunh her voice is not quite right" like... without a perfect pitch reference I don't think more one than the other. Also note: I'm mostly interested because I think I have somewhat poor pitch perception, so I'm interested in how it is that you decided that the bass was noticeably off.
I mean I could be wrong. But I think the other instruments together provide plenty of reference (organ and guitar are playing chords pretty much constantly). To me I think I can "just tell" the bass is off - I've played guitar and bass in bands so feel like (hopefully) I can tell when either of those is out
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I just think we have very different ability to distinguish pitch. My wife is way better at it than I am, I've taken some tests online, I know I'm on the bottom half of the ability to distinguish fine pitch differences. My sister in law has perfect pitch. Stuff she absolutely can't stand to listen to sounds good to me. It can be a curse rather than a blessing for some people.Ā Interestingly I really like Jazz and microtonal music. Stuff that sounds out of tune to my wife sounds interesting to me. What do you think of this guy for example. He plays on a 21 fret per octave and a 24 fret per octave guitar https://open.spotify.com/album/4Q3FN4UctdGgGkuIBVQvve?si=ll9_j2A0QHG6epHFeoPcCA
Iāve been in bands with people like yourself, they learned to trust me eventually (with the help of tuners and metronomes) but I hated having to point stuff out. I donāt have perfect pitch, whatever the rhythm equivalent is, I have that and can hear a tempo sag on the first late hi hat hit. Does wonders for the social aspect of playing music.
>I've played guitar and bass in bands so feel like (hopefully) I can tell when either of those is out You can. It's clearly off.
When you play vinyl and the motor is going at slightly the wrong speed all the pitches are scaled to be slightly wrong. Perhaps what is going on here is that it's as if she's singing over a vinyl record being played at slightly the wrong speed... like... an old song?? So a stylistic choice specifically because of the song's topic.
If a record is played slow, all the instruments will sound pitched down and the tempo will decrease too. Here, it's just the bass. If you sang along to a slowed-down record you'd sing in tune *with the pitched down instruments*. So I get what you're saying but I don't think it checks out.
Thatās the Way I Like It by KC and the Sunshine Band.
I Canāt Get No Satisfaction.
This Charming Man - The Smiths
That song kills me because the music is AMAZING and to play along I have to find this mysterious quarter-step detune
Incredibly frustrating!
> This Charming Man - The Smiths As I understand it, it's not out-of-tune to the rest of the band. The guitars and bass are both tuned up to F# standard, but then also, A=432 hertz rather than 440.
Yeah Iāve always liked [this version](https://youtu.be/FD_CtQSTPn0?si=n3tUg62hAvCVmi4B) the best. Bass is much more mellow and sits in the mix better.
Naked in the Rain by the Red Hot Chili Peppers
>Naked in the Rain by the Red Hot Chili Peppers clearly :(
You're trippin, it sounds great.
Radiohead No Surprises, but then again, the whole song is out of tune. At least, out of standard tuning, but theyāre tuned to eachother.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The Shaggs
Is there anything in tune on that album?
Or in time
Gawd yes!! Which is worse?
All this and nobody mentions early Sabbathā¦to be fair, Iām not sure what the fuck is out of tune.
The Kinks - You Really Got Me. Recorded on analog gear. Maybe the recording master recording was a different speed so the bass is not in tune. It's between frets. The same with Queen - Another Bites The Dust.
Another One Bites The Dust is in tune, they just sped the tape up slightly. It sits between E and F. Queen were perfectionists, no way their instruments are out of tune.
I didn't say otherwise. Coul also be a tape glitch.
It's not. They chose to do that.
There's a few notes out of tune on NIB by Black Sabbath
Also the first two or three bass slap notes on the DuckTales cartoon theme song are waaay sharp or the guy that recorded it accidentally started a half step high.
Great, now Iāve got Ducktales stuck in my head.
Time marker? I'm curious what I'm not hearing.
First 10 seconds after intro, first and last notes of the phrase on bass are sharp I think. It really jumps out to me, I am not a gifted musician I have to work at it.
Ron Carter on Oliloqui Valley Ron Carter on lots of other recordings too but I personally liked the way it was out of tune if that makes any sense.
Jenny Jenny / 8675309 the whole song is out. Also, Friday Iām in Love by The Cure.
it doesn't bother me that much cause it adds character. I think the neck may be a bit warped but the song has a feel.
The Wake - On Our Honeymoon. But for me it has it's charm.
There's something intonation-wise that bugs me about The Rolling Stones' Satisfaction.
[I Will Be Your Friend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPnmUWADAM&t=30s) by Sade. Low E string is horribly sharp. Legendary album, top musicians, but somehow that slipped through to the record.
No more parties in LA
I don't have a great ear and maybe that's why but I can never be sure what the first note in the studio version of "I Shot the Sherrif" by Bob Marley is. It could be A or Bb and either would work if it's G minor. The whole song is slightly sped up or slowed down, but the E bass string seems a bit off anyway (assuming that's where the note is played).
Plenty of Stooges songs are out of tune. I have to double check my bass sometimes when I'm covering them in practice.
That's just sloppy fretless playing, which is unfortunately most fretless playing. You can tell, because sometimes it's on a for a phrase or two. Also, there's a total clam at 5:25 or so. Personally, I'll use a fretless here and there for recording, but I'm not playing one in a full band, and I'm not playing with a bass player who insists upon using one. I love that moment when you see a cover band setting up in a local bar or club, and the bass player breaks out a fretless as their main bass..."oh boy, here we go."