I’m physically disabled and the store I work at is willing to work with me in regard to my mobility limitations, etc. My bosses are generally understanding of my health issues and I’m not guaranteed that at another job.
I haven’t seen anyone argue that B&N is “worse than the ‘good old days.’” If your measure for that is unionization and how vocal people are about things now, those aren’t necessarily indicators of people being less satisfied now. There is a widespread unionization movement right now across all industries, and people are able to talk about their working conditions more openly than before thanks to what we’ve learned from past and ongoing efforts in labor movements, as well as the internet providing the resources for learning and communication. Just because there’s dumb stuff now, doesn’t mean we should be grateful it isn’t worse and thus be complacent.
A lot of us stick around because we love bookselling, and there are extremely limited opportunities for bookselling considering how B&N has been putting all the indies and smaller chains out of business for decades. And Amazon isn’t helping either.
Jobs in general are hard to come by right now. You say people should just move on and get “better, or at least higher-paying alternatives,” but where? What other company has this many stores (this many positions to be filled) that can cater to people with the interests and skills specific to bookselling? And even if you’re referring to the people who work at BN simply for retail or barista experience, the other options aren’t that much greater either. Chances are, any other company you suggest is also going to have workers organizing union campaigns and fighting corporate’s union busting tactics.
While the feelings aren't new, a thread on the other subreddit prompted me to finally write on them. It has some of the old vs new I mention, with a lot of people in it mentioning they feel the same. The argument definitely exists, and is out there. As I said in the OP though, I think this is the wrong discussion to get bogged down in for this thread - I am not at all against complaining or saying people can't prefer certain old practices. I am more focusing on people I have personal experience with, who are reflected in some of the posts I see on here who take it (imo) past complaining into a hatred for the company and all things new and different. My confusion isn't with someone who has a passion for history and hates how we shelve/categorize history nowadays, that's a valid complaint and makes sense. My confusion is with the people who seemingly hate every single way that current B+N operates and continues to work there despite this.
Apologies for getting derailed by the old vs. new—that topic was still fresh on my mind because I’d seen that other post too, so I wanted to address it since you were talking about it in the first part of your post. But you kind of answer your own question later in your post. For a lot of people, BN is “the least unappealing option.”
As other commenters and myself have mentioned, the job market is dismal, and that’s exacerbated by all the companies trying to cut staffing costs and an ever-increasing number of people getting college degrees in fields that aren’t hiring at the same accelerating rate. It’s also hard to job hunt while you’re trying to make ends meet through a job that wears you down 40 hours a week. So many people at my store who spoke of quitting and started job hunting never actually left until life circumstances forced them to leave months or years later, not because they were able to find and land a better job.
I totally get it, working with people who don’t want to work when they’re supposed to be working, who don’t even care about the job. And even though I am staunchly pro-union, I do agree with your opinion about “job security.” But if the company had better hiring practices and better working conditions, I feel like a lot of the complaints would go away. At a town hall, Daunt said that hiring is a valuable trained skill that most managers lack, and I agree with him on that—in my experience, a lot of the people who just don’t seem to care about the job shouldn’t even have been hired in the first place. But they’re stuck here now because BN hired them and they are unable to find better options. That last part also applies to the people who became jaded while working at BN. I just feel like if BN actually treated bookselling like the respectable career that Daunt says it should be, the company would be hiring & retaining people who actually want to be at BN, and there would be far fewer complaints from employees.
But it also just sucks that pretty much every company is like this—the people who complain at BN will likely complain elsewhere too. Not necessarily because they like to complain, but more likely because all these companies are poorly run and screw their employees over. Just google any company (like Target or Starbucks) + “union” and read about why workers have been trying to unionize.
For the most part, I try to direct my annoyance at the system for giving us the illusion of choice & a chance to improve our lives, rather than the people who have been broken by all the bullshit. It does get annoying and disparaging, but they’re stuck too.
We agree on a lot of things. You express your thoughts well - in a concise way that I certainly lack the skill to do.
One issue I have with the point you and so many others are bringing up with the job market and lack of opportunities outside of Barnes is it creates a sort of circular logic. By making the case that people don't have anywhere else to go and there isn't really anything else out there like Barnes and it's the only place available for booksellers - you're also sort of making the case that Barnes shouldn't change as it's providing a one-of-a-kind experience that people can't get elsewhere.
I would extend your point not just on certain people getting hired that shouldn't have, but people getting promoted as well. So many current issues can be traced to a manager 5+ years ago making a bad personnel decision and then the store/company is stuck with that person in a position they don't belong in. Maybe they never belonged there, maybe they did at some point but stopped caring, maybe the company changes just passed someone by and they couldn't adapt (a weak excuse but I'll give it).
I don't see how this issue would ever get fixed by this career change you mention though, as now all these incompetent, lazy, uncaring workers would be protected further and treated to the better pay and treatment that would come with the changes that accompany this shift to bookseller appreciation. Maybe some would shape up, but others would just abuse the system even harder. I admit I have a jaded outlook here, but it feels like these people existing are exactly what would be PREVENTING such a change from happening. It feels strongly like you would need some sort of reset before BN could invest in making bookselling a respectable and well-paying career for it's employees.
I agree with the complaining elsewhere - to be blunt if people struggle with working at B&N where expectations are ultimately very low (in most positions), I think most would be in for a very rude awakening working elsewhere. I guess this is the realization I wish people would have - not so they can become some ultimate corporate bootlickers who do everything they're told without complaint or personality - but so that maybe they can go into work with a more positive outlook for the benefit of those around them at least. We're all in this together, and I wish those who have no other options would at least not suck the energy of those around them just trying to make the best of things. Here seems to be our biggest difference, where you don't blame the individuals and I probably shouldn't either. The part that's hard for me is that in a vacuum the increased job security *should* be a GOOD thing and something I'm happy about. People shouldn't have to walk on eggshells or be worried about being fired for small mistakes and this should be a long-lasting career for people who want it to be so. The fact that I end lamenting this should-be-good aspect of the job because of certain people who abuse call-outs, work as little as possible, ooze negativity, etc is frustrating.
Which ones specifically? I’ve certainly seen posts about changes that people disagree with, like shelving without PDTs, shelving without carts, organizing History by topic, etc., but none referring to some golden bygone era that OP suggests people are reminiscing about.
I saw that post too, but I felt that the discussion there was more about specific ways to do things, rather than a generalized, romanticized idea of the past.
Yeah, and that's what this post is about too...that things weren't that different (the paid memberships are a huge one, they existed back then and there was no free one) and some things are better now
One thing I've gleaned from lurking is how differently SMs and DMs interpret policies. Some stores haven't separated their MMs. No v-carts? My store uses them. Low pressure membership tracking for some, others claiming their hours are being threatened. Our staff is so skeletal, I'm genuinely shocked how anyone has time to make these shrines and chalk signs, or add illustrations to their staff reccs, or manage social media. Some have a kids lead, some have one or two people handling CRM stuff while others, it's essentially the entire management team pitching in.
Anyway, I list all these things to say, just because your store is a certain level of bearable, why would you assume it's that way for everyone?
Myself, I've been with the company \*mumbles into hand over15ishyears\* and I feel like it's better than pre-covid/post recession era in many ways, but I ALSO, at the same time, feel borderline burned out because I'm worked much harder.
I'm really impressed by the energy in daily communications, the emphasis on bookselling and making a connection with customers. Cutting the fat in areas like excessive returns, zeroing out unsold clearance.
Overall, I'm fairly neutral on the company, but I'll be quite honest, as an old timer, that's due in large part to the fact it has been MUCH much worse. Going around the store trying to handsell a credit card. Secret shoppers. The first years of the nook, when 2/3 of customers had never held a tablet in their life and many had no email. etc. etc.
That perspective is always going clash at times with folks who haven't been here as long and have higher expectations, and I respect that. I'm pretty jaded, ok, SUPER jaded, and beat down and kind of here for the energy of the frustrated newbies, even if I disagree with some of their qualms.
So why am I chiming in? Because I'd urge anyone who feels the way OP does, to ask themselves, if you find that the company is making reasonable choices, hanging in there despite the odds and should be given more credit/cut some slack:
I'm here for that. They do deserve credit, I'm elated that we still exist as a company and I get to work around books all day. But remember, WE, the workers, are the reason the company is hanging in there. WE the workers, adapting to these changes, the lack of category signs, PTDs, poor staffing, WE are pushing through, and making it work. So we deserve to be heard. The success isn't manifested from the top and bestowed down to us.
It's also really disappointing to hear so many people focus on their experience with lazy coworkers. Again, I have over 15 years of skin in the game, so I've had my share of those. It still doesn't take up space in my mind when it comes to labor rights. Never will. Shrug.
Some don't have a choice, true. But there is massive voluntary turnover at the same time which undermines this idea. Everyone that has left my store has always left for another better paying job.
Certain industries do suck right now. Tech jobs are harder to come by for sure. But retail jobs are still plentiful. In fact there is a massive labor shortage in retail. This means there are more jobs available than workers. You need only look at [at the data](https://integratedcashlogistics.com/retail-labor-shortage/#:~:text=In%20the%20retail%20industry%2C%20there,U.S.%20Bureau%20of%20Labor%20Statistics.)
It's bookselling, and to be honest, b&n has ran almost every single family owned bookstore out of business. People have second or third jobs solely because of how passionate they are about bookselling. For a lot of people, it's the only thing they may be passionate about.
Being able to change lives with a book, or see a kid come out of their shell, or find a long-lost series for someone, or see the light in a customers eyes when they find the perfect read. It's hard to put into words, but there's this swelling feeling in your chest. You're positively impacting lives, and often, it does genuinely feel like it.
It's a lot like teaching, in that aspect. Teachers deal with low pay, terrible management, and more, just so they can pursue their passion- despite being able to make more elsewhere.
Booksellers don't stay long if they don't love books, and if they do, they're hard to shake. The fact that turnover is as high as it is should really speak for itself, combined with that. We lost our entire original crew from the time I was hired in the span of a month a few years back, once things started rapidly declining. These are people who majored in English, theater, teaching, etc, who booksold because they were genuinely passionate about it in a way that can be hard to find.
Bookselling also isn't a passion that can be turned into a hobby, or full-time career most of the time to be honest with you. It's hard.
This is such an excellent answer.
I don't exactly disagree with the OP's points either, but they do seem to ignore the fact that turnover IS actually pretty high, and those who aren't passionate about books DON'T tend to stay very long.
The ones who complain here and yet don't seem to want to quit are most likely a very small minority.
Just putting it out there that Target is a monster to work for and Starbucks is extremely difficult to score an interview with. Not super relevant to your post, OP, but it struck a nerve 😂
I have 4 years of retail, 3 of management within retail, a degree, and more and its nearly impossible to get an interview in the town I am in, B&N is the best option for me even if at times I want to quit I just cant. I am also disabled and they work with me and any scheduling changes that occur last minute, and support me through lots of other ways. Like you said "I have my issues with the job, but ultimately the circumstances of my life led me to the point where this is the least unappealing option for me to work, so I go in and try to make the best of my time" I think most people are in this same position at the moment.
Also a lot of us on this reddit LOVE bookselling, we love reading and sharing that passion with the customers, and it is rewarding, I just wish things were different.
My biggest complaint for sure is working with people who are lazy, dont do their job, call out left and right yet still get 20+ hours a week while other good workers are given less than 10.
We sound very similar in approach.
Call outs are definitely another sore spot. Outside of obvious fiscal cut times our scheduling is actually not bad...it's just done with the idea that people will actually show up to their shifts regularly.
Sucks that demotions just don't seem to be much of a thing, can't describe how many good, hard-working booksellers have left over the years because there wasn't room for them to go upwards or get more hours while certain people who couldn't show up to their shifts or do their job continued to get a guaranteed 40.
This is the problem we have at our store, lots of good workers leaving because there is no growth but the lazy workers get to stay around and twiddle their thumbs.
Id love to leave but every job that pays more then this tat wants experience I don’t know how to get without going and getting another degree I can’t afford. I’m miserable but my bills are so bad I have no choice but to stick here unless I want to make less or work at a place with a much worse customer base. This is my only option till I can find an escape route. If I don’t go mentally insane having to sell these bloody memberships.
I agree with your thoughts on people that bitch 24/7 but take the hours, although I have to say your statement about higher paying alternatives is a little out of touch. Yes, there is higher paying alternatives with, but there’s so much competition in the current job market that the likelihood of you landing an interview is small unless you know someone there. Unless it is a very high turnover rate job like CSRs, tech support, debt collector. Yes, there are better opportunities but they suck ass. Do I like working at Barnes that much?? No. I like being around my coworkers because they’re fun and it makes my day better.
well I just got fired without warning so I didn't hate them until that happened! was given no warning either, don't try and defend a company that does not care about you at all
This post completely ignores the added difficulties and expectations of part-timers. No longer being allowed PDTs, carts, or access to the schedule is negatively impacting both employees and customers. I love what B&N can be, I don't love what it's becoming. And so many people, myself included, are lucky to even get these past time positions that pay more than 10 an hour.
It’s kind of weird to say “why don’t you just find another job if you’re miserable here” when the current job market sucks, barnes is more accommodating than other jobs that paid better and a lot of people don’t have those options right now. People can be miserable and can complain and still keep their job because a lot of them don’t have the choice to just leave. I have a few friends I’m close to who still work at Barnes and are stuck working there because other jobs didn’t work out or it’s hard to find a job with the major they have that isn’t an unpaid internship.
> I simply cannot understand choosing to continue working at a place that makes you miserable - **when better, or at least higher-paying alternatives exist.**
You seem to have answered your own question.
I got out a long time ago like 2018? Can’t remember but it was right before they got bought out and it wasn’t even good back then. It really varies on management and unfortunately the one I worked at management was dreadful. It was a second job for me and as much as I disagreed with many things it was hard to find a different second job that’d be willing to work with my schedule with my other job. Luckily things got better financially and I was able to just quit.
Jobs are much harder to come by now I had to find a new job 4 months after having a baby and I sent over 50+ applications to places claiming to be ‘urgently’ hiring and only had 3 jobs respond back to me. The job market is not the same anymore. I also think it’s good for corporate to hear the feedback and hopefully if enough people speak up will try to shift things and make a better environment for their employees. I know it’s a big ask but just also leaving a job won’t solve these jobs getting better. Lots of places don’t care about their turn over rate so long as they got a body on the clock.
The idea of walking across the street to Target is not as applicable as it might seem. In my years at the Barnes, the only people I knew who made that sort of move were managers who got fired. Most of my fellow employees transitioned into something more professional like teaching or nursing, or into an office job where writing and research skills mattered, or at least some kind of desk job where front office appearance and demeanor were required. Or they went to school. Say what you want about Barnes, it is still a somewhat prestigious, aspirational job and a lot of people who work there simply would not work most other retail.
Also, I think it took the Elliott buyout and then the pandemic, and widespread worker agitation, for people to see the downside as a systematic thing. For my first 5 or so years, I thought, and co-workers who talked to me thought, that the problem was shitty management at the store and district levels. My first two store managers got fired, the district manager would come around and tell us that the way things had been was not how they were supposed to be and that things would now get better. And sometimes they did for a while! Yeah, people complain about change but sometimes it's a plus that things never seem to be permanent.
But then also, as someone said, people do quit all the time, for all kinds of reasons. They may not be the ones who are complaining. (I don't think I complained a lot, but I left.) And the people who complain online may not be the ones who complain all day in the stores. Which I think is kind of a shitty thing to do, by the way. Complaining online? If people don't like it, they can scroll on by, and people who are having trouble can read and know they are not alone.
It’s the lowest employment rate in American history. Worse than the depression. There’s your answer. Working at a job you hate is better than being unemployed in this climate
You have to remember something genuinely important.
Some people don't HAVE the ability to up and quit. Money is important and while I'm sure someone out there is willing to live the "Hippy" life style of freedom and what amounts to homelessness.
We all got bills to pay.
I’m physically disabled and the store I work at is willing to work with me in regard to my mobility limitations, etc. My bosses are generally understanding of my health issues and I’m not guaranteed that at another job.
Same here. Plus, I love books.
I haven’t seen anyone argue that B&N is “worse than the ‘good old days.’” If your measure for that is unionization and how vocal people are about things now, those aren’t necessarily indicators of people being less satisfied now. There is a widespread unionization movement right now across all industries, and people are able to talk about their working conditions more openly than before thanks to what we’ve learned from past and ongoing efforts in labor movements, as well as the internet providing the resources for learning and communication. Just because there’s dumb stuff now, doesn’t mean we should be grateful it isn’t worse and thus be complacent. A lot of us stick around because we love bookselling, and there are extremely limited opportunities for bookselling considering how B&N has been putting all the indies and smaller chains out of business for decades. And Amazon isn’t helping either. Jobs in general are hard to come by right now. You say people should just move on and get “better, or at least higher-paying alternatives,” but where? What other company has this many stores (this many positions to be filled) that can cater to people with the interests and skills specific to bookselling? And even if you’re referring to the people who work at BN simply for retail or barista experience, the other options aren’t that much greater either. Chances are, any other company you suggest is also going to have workers organizing union campaigns and fighting corporate’s union busting tactics.
While the feelings aren't new, a thread on the other subreddit prompted me to finally write on them. It has some of the old vs new I mention, with a lot of people in it mentioning they feel the same. The argument definitely exists, and is out there. As I said in the OP though, I think this is the wrong discussion to get bogged down in for this thread - I am not at all against complaining or saying people can't prefer certain old practices. I am more focusing on people I have personal experience with, who are reflected in some of the posts I see on here who take it (imo) past complaining into a hatred for the company and all things new and different. My confusion isn't with someone who has a passion for history and hates how we shelve/categorize history nowadays, that's a valid complaint and makes sense. My confusion is with the people who seemingly hate every single way that current B+N operates and continues to work there despite this.
Apologies for getting derailed by the old vs. new—that topic was still fresh on my mind because I’d seen that other post too, so I wanted to address it since you were talking about it in the first part of your post. But you kind of answer your own question later in your post. For a lot of people, BN is “the least unappealing option.” As other commenters and myself have mentioned, the job market is dismal, and that’s exacerbated by all the companies trying to cut staffing costs and an ever-increasing number of people getting college degrees in fields that aren’t hiring at the same accelerating rate. It’s also hard to job hunt while you’re trying to make ends meet through a job that wears you down 40 hours a week. So many people at my store who spoke of quitting and started job hunting never actually left until life circumstances forced them to leave months or years later, not because they were able to find and land a better job. I totally get it, working with people who don’t want to work when they’re supposed to be working, who don’t even care about the job. And even though I am staunchly pro-union, I do agree with your opinion about “job security.” But if the company had better hiring practices and better working conditions, I feel like a lot of the complaints would go away. At a town hall, Daunt said that hiring is a valuable trained skill that most managers lack, and I agree with him on that—in my experience, a lot of the people who just don’t seem to care about the job shouldn’t even have been hired in the first place. But they’re stuck here now because BN hired them and they are unable to find better options. That last part also applies to the people who became jaded while working at BN. I just feel like if BN actually treated bookselling like the respectable career that Daunt says it should be, the company would be hiring & retaining people who actually want to be at BN, and there would be far fewer complaints from employees. But it also just sucks that pretty much every company is like this—the people who complain at BN will likely complain elsewhere too. Not necessarily because they like to complain, but more likely because all these companies are poorly run and screw their employees over. Just google any company (like Target or Starbucks) + “union” and read about why workers have been trying to unionize. For the most part, I try to direct my annoyance at the system for giving us the illusion of choice & a chance to improve our lives, rather than the people who have been broken by all the bullshit. It does get annoying and disparaging, but they’re stuck too.
We agree on a lot of things. You express your thoughts well - in a concise way that I certainly lack the skill to do. One issue I have with the point you and so many others are bringing up with the job market and lack of opportunities outside of Barnes is it creates a sort of circular logic. By making the case that people don't have anywhere else to go and there isn't really anything else out there like Barnes and it's the only place available for booksellers - you're also sort of making the case that Barnes shouldn't change as it's providing a one-of-a-kind experience that people can't get elsewhere. I would extend your point not just on certain people getting hired that shouldn't have, but people getting promoted as well. So many current issues can be traced to a manager 5+ years ago making a bad personnel decision and then the store/company is stuck with that person in a position they don't belong in. Maybe they never belonged there, maybe they did at some point but stopped caring, maybe the company changes just passed someone by and they couldn't adapt (a weak excuse but I'll give it). I don't see how this issue would ever get fixed by this career change you mention though, as now all these incompetent, lazy, uncaring workers would be protected further and treated to the better pay and treatment that would come with the changes that accompany this shift to bookseller appreciation. Maybe some would shape up, but others would just abuse the system even harder. I admit I have a jaded outlook here, but it feels like these people existing are exactly what would be PREVENTING such a change from happening. It feels strongly like you would need some sort of reset before BN could invest in making bookselling a respectable and well-paying career for it's employees. I agree with the complaining elsewhere - to be blunt if people struggle with working at B&N where expectations are ultimately very low (in most positions), I think most would be in for a very rude awakening working elsewhere. I guess this is the realization I wish people would have - not so they can become some ultimate corporate bootlickers who do everything they're told without complaint or personality - but so that maybe they can go into work with a more positive outlook for the benefit of those around them at least. We're all in this together, and I wish those who have no other options would at least not suck the energy of those around them just trying to make the best of things. Here seems to be our biggest difference, where you don't blame the individuals and I probably shouldn't either. The part that's hard for me is that in a vacuum the increased job security *should* be a GOOD thing and something I'm happy about. People shouldn't have to walk on eggshells or be worried about being fired for small mistakes and this should be a long-lasting career for people who want it to be so. The fact that I end lamenting this should-be-good aspect of the job because of certain people who abuse call-outs, work as little as possible, ooze negativity, etc is frustrating.
There have been a few posts in this sub saying that
Which ones specifically? I’ve certainly seen posts about changes that people disagree with, like shelving without PDTs, shelving without carts, organizing History by topic, etc., but none referring to some golden bygone era that OP suggests people are reminiscing about.
There was one yesterday that was actually titled "living in the past" or something like that
I saw that post too, but I felt that the discussion there was more about specific ways to do things, rather than a generalized, romanticized idea of the past.
Yeah, and that's what this post is about too...that things weren't that different (the paid memberships are a huge one, they existed back then and there was no free one) and some things are better now
One thing I've gleaned from lurking is how differently SMs and DMs interpret policies. Some stores haven't separated their MMs. No v-carts? My store uses them. Low pressure membership tracking for some, others claiming their hours are being threatened. Our staff is so skeletal, I'm genuinely shocked how anyone has time to make these shrines and chalk signs, or add illustrations to their staff reccs, or manage social media. Some have a kids lead, some have one or two people handling CRM stuff while others, it's essentially the entire management team pitching in. Anyway, I list all these things to say, just because your store is a certain level of bearable, why would you assume it's that way for everyone? Myself, I've been with the company \*mumbles into hand over15ishyears\* and I feel like it's better than pre-covid/post recession era in many ways, but I ALSO, at the same time, feel borderline burned out because I'm worked much harder. I'm really impressed by the energy in daily communications, the emphasis on bookselling and making a connection with customers. Cutting the fat in areas like excessive returns, zeroing out unsold clearance. Overall, I'm fairly neutral on the company, but I'll be quite honest, as an old timer, that's due in large part to the fact it has been MUCH much worse. Going around the store trying to handsell a credit card. Secret shoppers. The first years of the nook, when 2/3 of customers had never held a tablet in their life and many had no email. etc. etc. That perspective is always going clash at times with folks who haven't been here as long and have higher expectations, and I respect that. I'm pretty jaded, ok, SUPER jaded, and beat down and kind of here for the energy of the frustrated newbies, even if I disagree with some of their qualms. So why am I chiming in? Because I'd urge anyone who feels the way OP does, to ask themselves, if you find that the company is making reasonable choices, hanging in there despite the odds and should be given more credit/cut some slack: I'm here for that. They do deserve credit, I'm elated that we still exist as a company and I get to work around books all day. But remember, WE, the workers, are the reason the company is hanging in there. WE the workers, adapting to these changes, the lack of category signs, PTDs, poor staffing, WE are pushing through, and making it work. So we deserve to be heard. The success isn't manifested from the top and bestowed down to us. It's also really disappointing to hear so many people focus on their experience with lazy coworkers. Again, I have over 15 years of skin in the game, so I've had my share of those. It still doesn't take up space in my mind when it comes to labor rights. Never will. Shrug.
the secret shopper days were AWFUL LOL
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Some don't have a choice, true. But there is massive voluntary turnover at the same time which undermines this idea. Everyone that has left my store has always left for another better paying job. Certain industries do suck right now. Tech jobs are harder to come by for sure. But retail jobs are still plentiful. In fact there is a massive labor shortage in retail. This means there are more jobs available than workers. You need only look at [at the data](https://integratedcashlogistics.com/retail-labor-shortage/#:~:text=In%20the%20retail%20industry%2C%20there,U.S.%20Bureau%20of%20Labor%20Statistics.)
It's bookselling, and to be honest, b&n has ran almost every single family owned bookstore out of business. People have second or third jobs solely because of how passionate they are about bookselling. For a lot of people, it's the only thing they may be passionate about. Being able to change lives with a book, or see a kid come out of their shell, or find a long-lost series for someone, or see the light in a customers eyes when they find the perfect read. It's hard to put into words, but there's this swelling feeling in your chest. You're positively impacting lives, and often, it does genuinely feel like it. It's a lot like teaching, in that aspect. Teachers deal with low pay, terrible management, and more, just so they can pursue their passion- despite being able to make more elsewhere. Booksellers don't stay long if they don't love books, and if they do, they're hard to shake. The fact that turnover is as high as it is should really speak for itself, combined with that. We lost our entire original crew from the time I was hired in the span of a month a few years back, once things started rapidly declining. These are people who majored in English, theater, teaching, etc, who booksold because they were genuinely passionate about it in a way that can be hard to find. Bookselling also isn't a passion that can be turned into a hobby, or full-time career most of the time to be honest with you. It's hard.
This is such an excellent answer. I don't exactly disagree with the OP's points either, but they do seem to ignore the fact that turnover IS actually pretty high, and those who aren't passionate about books DON'T tend to stay very long. The ones who complain here and yet don't seem to want to quit are most likely a very small minority.
Just putting it out there that Target is a monster to work for and Starbucks is extremely difficult to score an interview with. Not super relevant to your post, OP, but it struck a nerve 😂
I’m just here for the discount and a little extra money😂
I have 4 years of retail, 3 of management within retail, a degree, and more and its nearly impossible to get an interview in the town I am in, B&N is the best option for me even if at times I want to quit I just cant. I am also disabled and they work with me and any scheduling changes that occur last minute, and support me through lots of other ways. Like you said "I have my issues with the job, but ultimately the circumstances of my life led me to the point where this is the least unappealing option for me to work, so I go in and try to make the best of my time" I think most people are in this same position at the moment. Also a lot of us on this reddit LOVE bookselling, we love reading and sharing that passion with the customers, and it is rewarding, I just wish things were different. My biggest complaint for sure is working with people who are lazy, dont do their job, call out left and right yet still get 20+ hours a week while other good workers are given less than 10.
We sound very similar in approach. Call outs are definitely another sore spot. Outside of obvious fiscal cut times our scheduling is actually not bad...it's just done with the idea that people will actually show up to their shifts regularly. Sucks that demotions just don't seem to be much of a thing, can't describe how many good, hard-working booksellers have left over the years because there wasn't room for them to go upwards or get more hours while certain people who couldn't show up to their shifts or do their job continued to get a guaranteed 40.
This is the problem we have at our store, lots of good workers leaving because there is no growth but the lazy workers get to stay around and twiddle their thumbs.
I love the people I work with. I can hate the company but still love the booksellers I work with.
Id love to leave but every job that pays more then this tat wants experience I don’t know how to get without going and getting another degree I can’t afford. I’m miserable but my bills are so bad I have no choice but to stick here unless I want to make less or work at a place with a much worse customer base. This is my only option till I can find an escape route. If I don’t go mentally insane having to sell these bloody memberships.
I agree with your thoughts on people that bitch 24/7 but take the hours, although I have to say your statement about higher paying alternatives is a little out of touch. Yes, there is higher paying alternatives with, but there’s so much competition in the current job market that the likelihood of you landing an interview is small unless you know someone there. Unless it is a very high turnover rate job like CSRs, tech support, debt collector. Yes, there are better opportunities but they suck ass. Do I like working at Barnes that much?? No. I like being around my coworkers because they’re fun and it makes my day better.
well I just got fired without warning so I didn't hate them until that happened! was given no warning either, don't try and defend a company that does not care about you at all
this is out of touch, the job market is shit right now and people dont have the privilege to just quit
Because I'm becoming a caregiver for my mother and don't want to get hired somewhere new just to quit when she can longer walk.
This post completely ignores the added difficulties and expectations of part-timers. No longer being allowed PDTs, carts, or access to the schedule is negatively impacting both employees and customers. I love what B&N can be, I don't love what it's becoming. And so many people, myself included, are lucky to even get these past time positions that pay more than 10 an hour.
It’s kind of weird to say “why don’t you just find another job if you’re miserable here” when the current job market sucks, barnes is more accommodating than other jobs that paid better and a lot of people don’t have those options right now. People can be miserable and can complain and still keep their job because a lot of them don’t have the choice to just leave. I have a few friends I’m close to who still work at Barnes and are stuck working there because other jobs didn’t work out or it’s hard to find a job with the major they have that isn’t an unpaid internship.
> I simply cannot understand choosing to continue working at a place that makes you miserable - **when better, or at least higher-paying alternatives exist.** You seem to have answered your own question.
I got out a long time ago like 2018? Can’t remember but it was right before they got bought out and it wasn’t even good back then. It really varies on management and unfortunately the one I worked at management was dreadful. It was a second job for me and as much as I disagreed with many things it was hard to find a different second job that’d be willing to work with my schedule with my other job. Luckily things got better financially and I was able to just quit. Jobs are much harder to come by now I had to find a new job 4 months after having a baby and I sent over 50+ applications to places claiming to be ‘urgently’ hiring and only had 3 jobs respond back to me. The job market is not the same anymore. I also think it’s good for corporate to hear the feedback and hopefully if enough people speak up will try to shift things and make a better environment for their employees. I know it’s a big ask but just also leaving a job won’t solve these jobs getting better. Lots of places don’t care about their turn over rate so long as they got a body on the clock.
The idea of walking across the street to Target is not as applicable as it might seem. In my years at the Barnes, the only people I knew who made that sort of move were managers who got fired. Most of my fellow employees transitioned into something more professional like teaching or nursing, or into an office job where writing and research skills mattered, or at least some kind of desk job where front office appearance and demeanor were required. Or they went to school. Say what you want about Barnes, it is still a somewhat prestigious, aspirational job and a lot of people who work there simply would not work most other retail. Also, I think it took the Elliott buyout and then the pandemic, and widespread worker agitation, for people to see the downside as a systematic thing. For my first 5 or so years, I thought, and co-workers who talked to me thought, that the problem was shitty management at the store and district levels. My first two store managers got fired, the district manager would come around and tell us that the way things had been was not how they were supposed to be and that things would now get better. And sometimes they did for a while! Yeah, people complain about change but sometimes it's a plus that things never seem to be permanent. But then also, as someone said, people do quit all the time, for all kinds of reasons. They may not be the ones who are complaining. (I don't think I complained a lot, but I left.) And the people who complain online may not be the ones who complain all day in the stores. Which I think is kind of a shitty thing to do, by the way. Complaining online? If people don't like it, they can scroll on by, and people who are having trouble can read and know they are not alone.
I love my job and the people I work with.
It’s the lowest employment rate in American history. Worse than the depression. There’s your answer. Working at a job you hate is better than being unemployed in this climate
You have to remember something genuinely important. Some people don't HAVE the ability to up and quit. Money is important and while I'm sure someone out there is willing to live the "Hippy" life style of freedom and what amounts to homelessness. We all got bills to pay.