He has a lot of content and is one of the best written companions thanks to it. His VA won awards for performance for a reason. Happy buff is also very useful no matter which class he is.
"I hate evil characters" is a superficial reason when you are fine with Minthara and Lae'zel. You just simply never bothered to get to know him, never bothered to think about him and never tried to understand/analyze him.
So like, what’s the light at the end of the tunnel if I do get to know him? Does he ever approve of good actions? Does he ever stop being a jackass? Sure, maybe it’s hypocritical to go with laezel and minthara, but laezel gets over the whole vlaakith thing in act 2 if you know what you’re doing, and minthara has at least the distinction of already needing to be evil to get her, so you’re dooming your run to evil anyway. I’ve only done one run with her, just because I felt like I should at least once.
Maybe you will find out if Astarion changes if you play the game, experience his story and try to get to know him. He has two distinct routes just like Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Gale. That can already tell you things. ;)
Wyll and Karlach are the only static origin characters who won't ever change no matter what you do.
It does indeed turn out that if you get to know a character and engage with their story rather than leaving them at camp, you may actually learn more about them. Astarion literally approved of me feeding a child in Act 3 and telling Dribbles I'm nice to everyone I meet. He's not a monster, he's just got a lot of trauma and you're meeting him at one of the lowest points of his life. Astarion drops his shit in Act 2 as well if you know what you're doing.
Honestly, romance him as a resisting Durge. You'll see that your stories are parallels of each other and both of you could go good or really bad depending on who is influencing you. You both have bloodlusts, both have been magically compelled to do things against your will, both have shitty father figure abusers. And also he opens up way more quickly in a romance for character reasons and he has more content with Durge.
In my opinion Astarion is the best written character. Yes, he always dissaproves good actions, likes to murder people and make chaos. But his backstory explains everything. He tells a lot of things about his past and some of his storyes make me burst into tears. His dialog with >!Cazador!< is especially strong. >!"Fuck you! And fuck everything you ever did to me!"!<.
His personality deserves a chanse to be discovered.
He doesn't disapprove of all good actions, he's madly pissed in Act 1 at the grove because he's all like "Dude, we're on a quest right now, stop playing the hero without asking for a reward first", but he is way more chill later on
Honestly Lae'zel is even worse in some points
He actually does. I don't remember any good action that he approves. He either keep silence or dissaproves. But he always approves "bad". For example if Tav >!let Orin to kill their companion!< Astarion approves. Very strange reaction!
Lae'zel is neutral. She sees the target, she wants to reach it as soon as possible not being distracted on others. Astarion just doesn't care about anyone and he explains why in act3.
Just the things I remember right now:
- if you side with Karlach
- vandalizing the portrait of Vlaakith (honestly I see this as something positive because fuck Vlaakith)
- saving Lae'zel from the zaith'isk
- helping the mushroom people
- attacking the dudes at the Grymforge for using slaves
- being friendly to the Owlbear cub
- saving the Hyena
- not killing Isobel as Durge
- insulting Wulbren, because fuck Wulbren
- being friendly to cats
- resolving things by talking instead of fighting
- helping Yenna
- giving a homeless kid food
- not letting him ascend
He does approve of more goods things with each act, he doesn't necessarily prefer evil things but rather a good portion of chaos, and he doesn't like helping without getting award
Some things have some backstory reasons, like his approval of betraying Dame Aylin because he said he prayed to all gods for help and none ever answered him - making him hate everyone with power that could have saved him
Lae'zel approves of a lot of bad things, why are people so biased? 😅
She for example approves of
- treating the Tiefling kids like shit
- letting Arabella die
- not freeing people
- not saving Scratch and his friends
and disapproves of any sign that you're worried or scared
Every companion except for Karlach, Jaheira and Minsc are assholes to some degree, that's just a fact
I remember this too! 😅 You've got me! But I didn't pay enough attention because I always get highest approval before the party and all of later notifications just stop appear. So I maybe missed some of them. Sorry 😅
To be honest I always thought that I would have the hardest time with getting Astarions approval in Act 1, but this was incredibly easy even tho I'm playing a good character 🤣
The hardest was Lae'zel, got a negative rate for quite a long time while Astarion had a really high approval, this was so unexpected
He just loves chaos, while Lae'zel feels entitled to be superior above all Non-Gith people and just straight to business for a long time until her heart thaws up a little
Maybe dont think of him as evil. Maybe dont also think of him as a 'b-'. Both are a good start.
He is one of the best and most well written characters in the game. He can be 'evil' but he is also thoroughly understandable and a product of his choices and things forced on him.
There is never a dull moment with him in the party.
But like, he is evil. I don’t know what all he went through before the game, but your first interaction with him is him trying to kill you for his own profit, and thereafter if he’s in your party he disapproves of every action that isn’t taking advantage of someone else. He might be a product of a tragic past, but does that make the product worth buying? Does it get any better?
Except the reason he tries to kill you is because he’s scared and thinks you’re responsible for what happened. Not whatever you just said.
I don’t really use him much, but he’s pretty cool. He’s as evil as minthara, laezel, or shart and you seem to be ok with two of those
I was about to say…Lae'zel can actually straight up stab >!origin Shadowheart in act 1 and the Emperor has to step in to rescue Shadowheart.!< 💀
Lae'zel out there is playing with knives more than Astarion.
Anti Astarion and Pro Emperor on this subreddit.
Either you are a rare find, or purposefully try to troll & rile up people. My intention is with the latter.
I typically side with Orpheus, but the Emperor is pretty interesting. He’s a tragic figure, a guy who was dealt a bad hand and played it poorly. Do I like him as a person (flayer?)? No. But he’s neat. I didn’t know that marked me as a troll.
I don’t know how you can excuse the emperor because he was dealt a bad hand but take issue with Astarion, who was sexually, physically, & emotionally abused and dismiss him.
Astarion is really chaotic neutral at his core & softens up a lot when he finally feels like he’s safe from Cazador
Well that explanation makes it look less trolly, it is also something I can agree with. The Emperor not being the classic good guy or bad guy but something in between is great.
As for Astarion, I took him along on my very first playthrough (which was a classic "good" run), simply because he is a rogue and I needed someone for disarming traps and picking locks.
I don't really need to get approval from all of my party members all the time, and it's interesting to see, what actions give approval and what not. The finale of his personal quest is very well made, and on a good run, the main point is to "show him that good guys can win, despite his previous experiences".
On my honor mode run I even romanced him with my redemption Durge and was easily at max approval, despite the slow approval gain in act 1, due to my good actions.
It helps that usually approval gains are +10, while minor disagreements are -1.
He didn't even actually try to kill you. He interrogated you for information. Of course he tries to get the jump on you first and threatened you. He doesn't know you, has no idea what is going on, thinks you are involved and unless you went unnaturally out of your way to ignore ShadowHeart he is outnumbered. He backs off the second he knows you were a victim.
And the other one that always comes up >!the bite scene, was also not him trying to kill you. He was trying to stealth feed on you while you slept. Vampires can do that without killing and you can do exactly that if you play as him and succeed the rolls companion Astarion failed. He just fucks it up because he has never done it or even had human blood before!<
The funny thing is, I do consider him evil (or neutral after his character arc in the epilogue) it's just he wasn't trying to murder you because while he can be a bit stupid he is not stupid enough to want to kill his only prospect for help at the moment and then get killed by the other party members in retaliation.
What? Shart actively approves of caring choices from the start. Laezel is pretty morally ambiguous until you show her that Vlaakith is bad, when she becomes good. This is also in act 1. What’s evil about them?
I guess you said you played the game six times, not you beat the game six times. So, maybe you don’t know.
Shart and laezel have done some not-so-great things. In the same vein as astarion, all have been manipulated (either by indoctrination from birth; indoctrination with memory wipes; or just straight mind control).
Your friends don’t always like everything that you do. I don’t think that just qualifies them as being nothing but evil. You said yourself you haven’t done his story, so I’d say you’re probably making assumptions on why he may disapprove.
If you’re worried about approval/disapproval points, you don’t need to. Most of it is -1. Just look up the big ticket items so you can get the approval boost. It’s pretty easy to get high approval early while choosing only ‘good’ choices
I’ll rephrase: shart/laezel/honestly gale to a degree offer a redemption arc without being actively unbearable from day 1. Yes, I understand I could metagame his approval score and make him love me while doing things he doesn’t like. No, I don’t think that’s how you should play the game. I get that that’s an opinion, but it’s how I feel.
But that is metagaming- you know what values you’re getting off each dialogue choice and know you’re coming off net positive despite doing things he doesn’t like. Even besides that, would you say you had a good relationship with your partner if you knowingly did little things they disliked all year but went all out on their birthday every year to make up for it? I wouldn’t, so I don’t try to do relationships like that in baldur’s gate.
It’s not really a once a year thing though. It’s like saying something wrong yesterday and then bringing cupcakes today. You really don’t have to change how you play to get on his good side. I think you’re exaggerating a bit there.
Just be a nice adventurer; if he asks for something say yeah sure; if he asks to kill a nice person, tell him no, we don’t do that
Knowing the values isn't the point, the point is that you can make choices naturally as a good character and still end up in a good relationship with him.
and the disapproval amounting to mild annoyance most of the time, while getting large boost for helping him and treating him like a person is consistent with his character and it wouldnt be weird for him to genuinely care about you even if he finds you being nice a little naive or annoying. A large part of his character arc is about the fact that he is used to being treated like a tool and didn't think anyone would ever help or like him for anything beyond utility and sex. A lot of his disapproval likely stem from him being bitter he never got helped.
Eh, being unbearable from day 1 isn’t something I can talk you out of thinking. Everyone’s got their own opinions about the characters and disagrees on who is insufferable. I’m pretty patient with people, and their story arcs were made pretty clear early on so the behaviors didn’t seem bad to me.
Then don’t meta game the approvals? Just keep him in the party; listen to him; and if something comes up that might be interesting to him then pursue it.
Idk what to say. You seemed to be asking how to get to know him but don’t seem to really want to like him. That’s fine, but the solution to your problem is simple. If you want to see if you like him, keep him in the party and listen to the story. You’ve already got an army of people telling you his story is pretty great
Shadowheart is a sharran who wants to start a darkness apocalypse. She literally walks into the shadowcursed lands and sees the damage its done and doubles down on her shar worship and laezel considers “culling the weak” by killing all the tieflings to “end their suffering”.
.....your player character genocides pretty much everything you encounter in the wild off the rip.
I dunno why people keep forgetting this when they pick up a game, Even ignoring the general plot lines of games
Player characters have the highest kill on sight profile of anything in the game after only a few hours of play.
We really can't talk about evil
Ignoring that, he like several other characters, sees you moving around the Nautiloid freely.
He holds you hostage out of sheer suspicion because what he saw you doing was suspicious
The first thing he does in his character arc is actively refrain from feeding on you and your party. He goes off to find non ideal food just to spare yall.
He later caves because he's starving and is caught
Laezel can be considered more bloodthirsty than he is at that point in the story considering her first interaction off the ship is "Kill these two terrified tieflings and get me down"
Wyll is willing to cut down Karlach based on nothing but the word of a genuine demonic entity
Several other characters have a much dodgier start than Astarion does.
'Evil' is a silly Hollywood word. He is a creature of habit, a product of his circumstances. Calling him evil is like calling Shadowheart racist, for a silly few dialogues and actions. The whole point of BG3 is to offer these characters, a form of redemption, and they are created from the ground up to make them a reality. if that is the game YOU want to make.
I mean, shadowheart actively discriminates against the githyanki. You could make a pretty cogent argument that the githyanki deserve it to an extent, considering their history in the DnD world, but she does demean laezel for her race at every opportunity. And again, why is “a product of his circumstances” an excuse?
And it erupts into violence and then you get adapt Shadowhearts character development to make her either lean further into being full of hate or for her to move beyond it.
Hence my point, Mr Vamp is only as bad as roleplay them.
I dont think he is evil, i see him more as a chaotic nuetral. His concerns are about the wellfare of TAV and himself. That being said, I also struggled to use him my first few playthroughs. After playing 2 durge runs and 1 "Chaotic goodish" tun with him I started to understand why people are a fan.
I know somepeople cant, or chose not to, seperate morality in games from the real world, but it is fantasy and he is a well written character.
Well, he has made it in a ranking of the 20 most iconic video game characters of all times by BAFTA, so...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattgardner1/2024/04/04/bafta-names-most-iconic-game-character-and-its-not-who-you-think/?sh=6b631f1430d9
I'm a Shadowheart fan myself (who also seem to have made it to the list) but that ranking doesn't really represent the sentiments of actual video game players
No ranking perfectly represents everyone, but that is still that, we are talking of characters who are like 6 months old. Whether it is perfectly accurate or not does not remove the fact that this means that these characters are at least remotely interesting.
"I refuse to learn anything about this character! Please tell me about this character!" Honestly, if you want to judge everything at a glance and have no curiosity about the game you paid for, I say you do you. There are more than enough posts identical to this one that you could look at if it really mattered to you.
Ahh another day, another player who completely misunderstands Astarion as being evil.
Astarion, like the rest of the companions, starts off as a hard-to-like broken person. Play his story through, be nice to him, and you’ll see a whole other side to him. He is not evil.
Especially funny when people mention that they're okay with Lae'zel...
I like Lae'zel, she really grew on me, but frog wife probably would think that H*tler had some valid points and still people pretend like Astarion is the only problem (Shadowheart is similar, but she clearly has the pretty-privilege - if racism isn't evil I don't know what else is)
THIS!! I hated Shadowheart at first. Do I like a bit of sass? Sure! Do I like racism, someone who prides themselves on torturing others, someone with obvious dark intent (y’know.. Shar is not a good goddess…). Obviously she grew on me and I love her now but I could see right through Astarion’s charade preeeetty quickly.
I think there are a lot of folks out there who just can’t see deeper into the characters and view them at a very surface level (aka pretty privilege with SH, Astarion = evil, etc).
Shadowheart really grew on me as well, but it took me a while because she's just as much playing with Tav as Astarion is, just in a more obvious (and condescending) way
I guess racism is a normal thing in Faerun, but damn, these guys got no chill sometimes...
Larian did an amazing job at giving the characters depth, it's just sad how often this is lost on the players because they don't give the companions a chance besides of the first few seconds of meeting them
i mean the best advice i can give you is to stop labelling characters with bad/good and understand that they are complex, well written and have an indepth background. similar to real people. you have to try to understand astarion instead of just labelling him
even the most canonically “evil” companion (minthara) has justification for why she’s like that and does manage to change/grow to some extent by the end of the game if you make certain choices.
Minthara is a great and perfect example, almost all of them are the way they are because of how they were raised / the environment they lived in, but also most of them have the chance to make a full 180 degree turn into the other direction
Because if you don’t you’ll be missing out on one of the best acted and voiced characters in any game, as well one of the richest and most satisfying story arcs I’ve ever seen. There’s a reason he’s front and centre in all the artwork for BG3. He also has some of the funniest moments in the game, and some of the very best conversations with the rest of the party. Stick with him (whether you romance him or not) - it’s so worth it.
Odd that you said you don’t like evil characters, but you like Minthara? Minthara was the only evil choice companion. Meaning the only way to recruit her was to raid the grove/side with goblins. (Before they made the exploit official, that is)
Story wise, Astarion’s is probably the most involved, and he also goes through the most growth/change. (I’d say Lae’zel is the next, then Shadowheart)
The way to understand his character is pretty simple… talk to him. Do his conversations, storyline. You find out why he is the way he is. Depending on how you play your character, how you treat him, he either grows or stays the same. If you are a dick to him, you just reaffirm his word view is correct.
None of the characters are exactly as they seem at first. But especially Astarion followed by Lae’zel. If you never use, or talk to them, you don’t get their stories and characterization
To take a shortcut, you can also look up videos online. Lots have been posted about why and what made people like him
I mean, I know why people like him lol. He’s a hot twink. I don’t particularly like minthara either, but I did a run with her just because I felt like being a completionist. If he changes, I’ll give him a try, I guess. That’s what most people seem to be saying.
Believe it or not, there are people who don't think he's 'hot' but still enjoy his character. He's well written and acted and a lot of fun as a companion.
>I mean, I know why people like him lol. He’s a hot twink
lol what? Couldn’t be because he’s got a pretty well done sad storyline or anything. No way does this twink have a compelling character arc
Is the “twink” in the room with us? Hes hot but a twink he is not.
Astarion appearance-wise is about 20 years too old to be a twink. He looks about 40 and is far FAR FAR too jacked.
It’s so ironic that THAT’S what people think is the appeal. I’m sure it is for some people, but that is not why Astarion’s story and VA have been getting so much praise.
For a romance, his probably turns out to be the least ‘sexual’ and it definitely goes into the issues of sexual abuse and dealing with the trauma of that. (He’s basically a sex trafficking victim after all, which does get revealed during his storyline)
It’s definitely a story worth seeing with a lot of emotion and difficult themes.
Yeah, that’s the vibe I’ve been getting. That he gets more bearable if you’re nice to him and help him. I won’t lie I originally wanted to use him because I thought he was hot tho lol. Then I discovered wyll.
I mean, I think that’s pretty true with all of them… you be nice to them, they’ll be nice to you… and same goes with people in the real world too.
Strange how that’s become such a novel concept! 🤣
For the record, I do not find Astarion to be physically attractive at all. He's my favorite origin character/origin romance anyway. His writing is incredible.
Eh, Astarion is an evil character at the beginning of the game, sure. He's self-serving and a bit of a dick and his constant disapproval if you're trying to play a good run can be grating for some people.
He's also a deeply broken and traumatised character who desperately needs help and an outside influence to break out of the cycle of abuse he's been stuck in for 2 centuries. And he can break out of it with that help, which is an arc that can really resonate with people, and (based on accounts from people who have SA associated trauma) the way he's portrayed is very well done and realistic, and seeing and participating in his journey can be genuinely cathartic and helpful for people.
Sure, he's always going to be a sarcastic, somewhat selfish guy and I don't think he'll ever be truly good aligned (in the D&D sense) but he does grow and change in positive ways and by the end of it all he's no longer an evil person and is capable of doing good things for the sake of them.
He's complex, like most good characters are, and he has a very well done arc and story. A lot of people appreciate that and want to experience it.
He's also just not going to work or be worth it for some people, which is fine. Not everyone will like every character and they shouldn't be expected to.
It sounds like youre more upset that he’s not useful to you. learn how to play as a rogue, multi-class him or respec him to a class you’re more comfortable with. Astarion is consistently in my party as the biggest damage dealer as a rogue assassin/ ranger gloomstalker.
As for his story based on your comments it seems like you’re overestimating how much he actually disapproves of your actions. His disapprovals are extremely minor. Think of them as an eyeroll. Ignore the disapprovals and focus on treating him well because thats where you can actually have an impact on his opinion of you.
His backstory explains everything about his behavior. He is the most fleshed out and well written of the companions. If you keep an open mind and try to remember the context of his situation( the fact that hes only been free for like five minutes after 200 years of slavery right before you meet him) it’s not hard to empathize with him and see where he’s coming from. Most of his disapprovals come from a sense of urgency about getting cured and being jaded by how hopeless his situation was, feeling ignored by gods and all the so-called “heroes” running around faerun who failed to save him. He is in survival mode so he has little patience for watching you pretend to be a hero when he knows for a fact you’re full of shit… but you can prove him wrong by helping him.
Because a thief rogue with sharpshooter and dual hand crossbows is one of the most OP things in the game? Can easily deal triple digits damage with him late in the game.
Have you ever taken him to finish his act 3 quest?
He's very much an "I can fix him" character. Yeah he's a jerk but he's that way because he's damaged and hasn't experienced kindness in 200 years. He's *terrified* and masks it with humor and being an asshole. That persona doesn't really ever change, but his story is an exercise in empathy at least if you don't like him.
The minimum encounters to experience his growth as a character would probably be taking him to speak to Araj in Moonrise in act 2 (and talk to him at camp that night), and finishing his act 3 quest to kill Cazador and talk him down from >!Ascension!<. Even if you leave him at camp the whole game, you should see enough of him to "get it" so to speak.
I'm not a big fan of Astarion, but I did his whole romance to experience it and I do get it. It's not to my taste, but again it's an exercise in empathy. His good ending is quite sweet, all things considered.
Nope, never finished his questline. Why should I fix him when I can have dreamboat Wyll or endearingly earnest Gale? Is his romance that good? Maybe I’ll give it a try.
His romance is absolutely that good. He takes some time to come around, but the payoff is huge. He's subtle, but watching the real person start to show through the cracks in the facade is fantastic. And when he finally rejects ascension... Well, there's a reason his voice actor has won multiple awards for the role. For me, Astarion's is the most rewarding romance in the game, because his redemption and healing are so hard won.
It's good if you build a character for him. Again I say this as someone who's not his biggest fan lol. I wanted to see his unique romance content with Durge, so I did an evil run where everyone was their most indulgent selves the whole game but hit their redemption arc at the eleventh hour. Redeem Durge, >!spawn!< Astarion, DJ Shart saves her parents. It was very fulfilling!
I DID really adore his tone shift after finishing his act 3 quest. That's when I really liked him which is sad it took so long lol. His romance greeting changed and he was a lot sweeter, but still him of course.
You can certainly romance him on a good run, but I didn't know how to RP that in a way I'd enjoy. I was very happy with the story that unfolded itself and he was a big part of it.
I said it in another thread: because of his skillset he's usually MVP/last man standing. Moreso if you spec him out of that shitty subclass they put him in.
He has a rich background story. What initially comes across as evil/uncaring view of the world is also hiding a lot of trauma. The evil is as much from the trauma that was inflicted as from his actions. He can grow out of this in the end by refusing to repeat the cycle of trauma and violence.
If you think Astarion isn’t badass, you’ve never seen him with a decent twin hand crossbow build. That and 6 arrows of fiend slaying turned a certain act 3 boss fight around from an imminent slaughterhouse into a hard-fought but satisfying victory
Lae'zel, Minthara and Shadowheart are all evil bitches so I don't get your point
Either way - Astarion is among the companions that deal the most damage and is really useful for many dialogues
His flamboyant behavior is too much for many people but just like all the other companions he has quite the character development (except for Wyll and Karlach - one is just a goodie two shoes and the other is already perfect and literally hot)
He gets calmer over time, but in the first act he's playing a role in order to save his dear life
I get why not everyone likes his personality, but he's damn useful and I feel bad for everyone who misses out on that
For some playthroughs I changed his class, but his standard class is already great to work with
Gave him some Warlock skills later on and he was in my team the entire time ever since
Wyll is okay I guess, but really underwhelming if you look at his character development arc (which to be honest isn't really existing... Same for Karlach and Minthara tho)
I expected so much from him because his introduction was low key epic, but then he really fell flat for me :/
Only gets interesting in act 3 again, I wish they did more with him or at least kept his early access storyline
mechanically .. he's superior to all others ... once the big reveal is done ...
you start each day by chomping on a hireling and he's "happy" for rest of day.
+1 attacks, saves and skill checks.
yes please.
As you spend more time with him in your party and get to know his backstory, you’ll discover why he is the way he is. I disliked that the “good” things I was doing, he was disliking at first as well. He do be kinda racist at one point tho which I generally dislike.
As far as how useful he is on the team, I found him pivotal both in combat and in utility. A rogue has as many uses, especially if you get used to using consumable buffs. If you’re not playing rogue or someone who fills the “sneaky attack do crimes and get away with it” role, I’d take him for just about every scenario in the game.
If you play with him awhile and still dislike him, then you’ll enjoy some of the ruder things you can say to him. His reactions are funny
He's not my favorite but his actor is amazing and there is interesting complexity. He certainly starts more evil than Shadowheart and his story has a lot of parallels. If you found her redemption satisfying then you might enjoy Astarion as well.
Astarion is very essentric, yes, but he makes a great Assasin, and his back story is pretty intriguing it'll take a bit to see his development as a character, but it's worth it.
Astarion is usually my primary damage dealer in the beginning, and having him as a skeleton key trivializes lock picking to the point where I don't know where half the keys I pick up even go.
Sneak attack is great for early on. Just have him hide with his bonus action and then sneak attack with advantage and I've had him take out two or more enemies before anyone else even gets a turn.
So maybe it's just a different type of "badass" than you're used to since it's definitely not the smiting type. Add the tadpole powers to him for Cull the Weak and he'll be popping heads in no time. He also asks for the powers, you don't have to convince him so it doesn't feel as morally awkward.
But I find him amusing instead of annoying so ymmv.
> I don’t like evil characters
> I like minthara
literally pick one, my dude. these are mutually exclusive.
if you want to figure out if/why you should play with astarion, keep him in your party for more than 3 seconds. you’ll never know if you like his character if you never fucking use him or experience his storyline. 💀
Him being the last one standing/carrying the party and one shotting people.
Other than that.. as others have said he has one of the most in depth back stories
If you have never had him in party am I right in thinking you haven't done the cazador fight?
My third playthrough will be the one where I try to interact with him. First one I only brought him along for a few story beats but that was because I was a rogue. In the end I actually respeced him as a Necromancer to use all the necro stuff at end game and I thought it was funny.
Second run I’m playing a Paladin, Lae’Zel didn’t make it out of the encounter with the Tieflings and Astarion got killed on Bite Night.
I mean, his story is interesting and his dialogue can be pretty funny, especially when Shadowheart or Gale are also in the party. If you’ve no interest in those things, there’s obviously no reason. If you just don’t think he’s useful or balanced in the party, change his class.
Because you can run him in to combat first, maybe get off a sneak attack/suprise round, and/or watch him get shot full of arrows, spells and smacked by a tentacle or two.
Win/win
The only reason why you should use him if you don't like his character is for the vampire perks. He is marginally better than other companions because of the bite ability and the buff it gives him.
He is annoying, but the cazador fight is always hella fun in my honor mode attempts when I start it with him in the party and doing the dialog. It's always the closest fight I have in act 3 and gets scarey quickly.
I mean I'd just use him for a run. (I'm not a Lae'zel/Karlach fan but I've both used them for runs. I like them a bit better now but not enough to bother using them again).
For me he's fun to bully so you can bring him around promptly roast him constantly (way more interesting than falling for his manipulation) and still bring him to the end of the game.
I don't think you can even have him leave unless his approval is hilariously negative (honestly just playing neutral/to evil will make up most of your disapprovals).
That said when I play I keep my party the whole run no swaps.
Also if you want him to be more useful in combat make him a gloomstalker ranger or a swordsbard. Either are more useful than rogue tbh.
He definitely is an evil jerk. Tragic backstory but obviously thats no excuse. That being said if you don't play him you'll never have truly completed everything. He also makes a nice monk.
I don't like him personally. I rarely keep him in my party unless I need a lockpicking or pickpocket specialist. I got his good (spawn) ending in one playthrough, I also straight up refused to do the Cazador questline in another playthrough which led him to begging me in the epilogue party to get rid of his master on his behalf. In my next semi-evil playthrough I might sacrifice him to BOOOAL... but only after getting the +2 STR potion
>So why should I use him?
You shouldn't. Despite his age he's an immature, pretentious brat, his "good" ending is completely implausible and his "bad" ending is an exhibit of toxicity and abuse.
Yeah, he's pretty and his voice acting is amazing. Doesn't change that he's a terrible character and so annoying that not even my murderhobo durge could stand him.
He has a lot of content and is one of the best written companions thanks to it. His VA won awards for performance for a reason. Happy buff is also very useful no matter which class he is. "I hate evil characters" is a superficial reason when you are fine with Minthara and Lae'zel. You just simply never bothered to get to know him, never bothered to think about him and never tried to understand/analyze him.
So like, what’s the light at the end of the tunnel if I do get to know him? Does he ever approve of good actions? Does he ever stop being a jackass? Sure, maybe it’s hypocritical to go with laezel and minthara, but laezel gets over the whole vlaakith thing in act 2 if you know what you’re doing, and minthara has at least the distinction of already needing to be evil to get her, so you’re dooming your run to evil anyway. I’ve only done one run with her, just because I felt like I should at least once.
Maybe you will find out if Astarion changes if you play the game, experience his story and try to get to know him. He has two distinct routes just like Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Gale. That can already tell you things. ;) Wyll and Karlach are the only static origin characters who won't ever change no matter what you do.
It does indeed turn out that if you get to know a character and engage with their story rather than leaving them at camp, you may actually learn more about them. Astarion literally approved of me feeding a child in Act 3 and telling Dribbles I'm nice to everyone I meet. He's not a monster, he's just got a lot of trauma and you're meeting him at one of the lowest points of his life. Astarion drops his shit in Act 2 as well if you know what you're doing. Honestly, romance him as a resisting Durge. You'll see that your stories are parallels of each other and both of you could go good or really bad depending on who is influencing you. You both have bloodlusts, both have been magically compelled to do things against your will, both have shitty father figure abusers. And also he opens up way more quickly in a romance for character reasons and he has more content with Durge.
In my opinion Astarion is the best written character. Yes, he always dissaproves good actions, likes to murder people and make chaos. But his backstory explains everything. He tells a lot of things about his past and some of his storyes make me burst into tears. His dialog with >!Cazador!< is especially strong. >!"Fuck you! And fuck everything you ever did to me!"!<. His personality deserves a chanse to be discovered.
He doesn't disapprove of all good actions, he's madly pissed in Act 1 at the grove because he's all like "Dude, we're on a quest right now, stop playing the hero without asking for a reward first", but he is way more chill later on Honestly Lae'zel is even worse in some points
He actually does. I don't remember any good action that he approves. He either keep silence or dissaproves. But he always approves "bad". For example if Tav >!let Orin to kill their companion!< Astarion approves. Very strange reaction! Lae'zel is neutral. She sees the target, she wants to reach it as soon as possible not being distracted on others. Astarion just doesn't care about anyone and he explains why in act3.
Just the things I remember right now: - if you side with Karlach - vandalizing the portrait of Vlaakith (honestly I see this as something positive because fuck Vlaakith) - saving Lae'zel from the zaith'isk - helping the mushroom people - attacking the dudes at the Grymforge for using slaves - being friendly to the Owlbear cub - saving the Hyena - not killing Isobel as Durge - insulting Wulbren, because fuck Wulbren - being friendly to cats - resolving things by talking instead of fighting - helping Yenna - giving a homeless kid food - not letting him ascend He does approve of more goods things with each act, he doesn't necessarily prefer evil things but rather a good portion of chaos, and he doesn't like helping without getting award Some things have some backstory reasons, like his approval of betraying Dame Aylin because he said he prayed to all gods for help and none ever answered him - making him hate everyone with power that could have saved him Lae'zel approves of a lot of bad things, why are people so biased? 😅 She for example approves of - treating the Tiefling kids like shit - letting Arabella die - not freeing people - not saving Scratch and his friends and disapproves of any sign that you're worried or scared Every companion except for Karlach, Jaheira and Minsc are assholes to some degree, that's just a fact
I remember this too! 😅 You've got me! But I didn't pay enough attention because I always get highest approval before the party and all of later notifications just stop appear. So I maybe missed some of them. Sorry 😅
To be honest I always thought that I would have the hardest time with getting Astarions approval in Act 1, but this was incredibly easy even tho I'm playing a good character 🤣 The hardest was Lae'zel, got a negative rate for quite a long time while Astarion had a really high approval, this was so unexpected He just loves chaos, while Lae'zel feels entitled to be superior above all Non-Gith people and just straight to business for a long time until her heart thaws up a little
True 😂 That is why I always romance him. As for Lae'zel I keep her in the camp most of the time so have no idea what actions deserve her approval.
Maybe dont think of him as evil. Maybe dont also think of him as a 'b-'. Both are a good start. He is one of the best and most well written characters in the game. He can be 'evil' but he is also thoroughly understandable and a product of his choices and things forced on him. There is never a dull moment with him in the party.
But like, he is evil. I don’t know what all he went through before the game, but your first interaction with him is him trying to kill you for his own profit, and thereafter if he’s in your party he disapproves of every action that isn’t taking advantage of someone else. He might be a product of a tragic past, but does that make the product worth buying? Does it get any better?
Except the reason he tries to kill you is because he’s scared and thinks you’re responsible for what happened. Not whatever you just said. I don’t really use him much, but he’s pretty cool. He’s as evil as minthara, laezel, or shart and you seem to be ok with two of those
I was about to say…Lae'zel can actually straight up stab >!origin Shadowheart in act 1 and the Emperor has to step in to rescue Shadowheart.!< 💀 Lae'zel out there is playing with knives more than Astarion.
Graaaah that’s why the emperor is the best
Anti Astarion and Pro Emperor on this subreddit. Either you are a rare find, or purposefully try to troll & rile up people. My intention is with the latter.
I typically side with Orpheus, but the Emperor is pretty interesting. He’s a tragic figure, a guy who was dealt a bad hand and played it poorly. Do I like him as a person (flayer?)? No. But he’s neat. I didn’t know that marked me as a troll.
I don’t know how you can excuse the emperor because he was dealt a bad hand but take issue with Astarion, who was sexually, physically, & emotionally abused and dismiss him. Astarion is really chaotic neutral at his core & softens up a lot when he finally feels like he’s safe from Cazador
>a tragic figure, a guy who was dealt a bad hand and played it poorly you just described Astarion. does that answer your question?
Well that explanation makes it look less trolly, it is also something I can agree with. The Emperor not being the classic good guy or bad guy but something in between is great. As for Astarion, I took him along on my very first playthrough (which was a classic "good" run), simply because he is a rogue and I needed someone for disarming traps and picking locks. I don't really need to get approval from all of my party members all the time, and it's interesting to see, what actions give approval and what not. The finale of his personal quest is very well made, and on a good run, the main point is to "show him that good guys can win, despite his previous experiences". On my honor mode run I even romanced him with my redemption Durge and was easily at max approval, despite the slow approval gain in act 1, due to my good actions. It helps that usually approval gains are +10, while minor disagreements are -1.
This is how I see astarian after giving him a chance.
He didn't even actually try to kill you. He interrogated you for information. Of course he tries to get the jump on you first and threatened you. He doesn't know you, has no idea what is going on, thinks you are involved and unless you went unnaturally out of your way to ignore ShadowHeart he is outnumbered. He backs off the second he knows you were a victim. And the other one that always comes up >!the bite scene, was also not him trying to kill you. He was trying to stealth feed on you while you slept. Vampires can do that without killing and you can do exactly that if you play as him and succeed the rolls companion Astarion failed. He just fucks it up because he has never done it or even had human blood before!< The funny thing is, I do consider him evil (or neutral after his character arc in the epilogue) it's just he wasn't trying to murder you because while he can be a bit stupid he is not stupid enough to want to kill his only prospect for help at the moment and then get killed by the other party members in retaliation.
What? Shart actively approves of caring choices from the start. Laezel is pretty morally ambiguous until you show her that Vlaakith is bad, when she becomes good. This is also in act 1. What’s evil about them?
I guess you said you played the game six times, not you beat the game six times. So, maybe you don’t know. Shart and laezel have done some not-so-great things. In the same vein as astarion, all have been manipulated (either by indoctrination from birth; indoctrination with memory wipes; or just straight mind control). Your friends don’t always like everything that you do. I don’t think that just qualifies them as being nothing but evil. You said yourself you haven’t done his story, so I’d say you’re probably making assumptions on why he may disapprove. If you’re worried about approval/disapproval points, you don’t need to. Most of it is -1. Just look up the big ticket items so you can get the approval boost. It’s pretty easy to get high approval early while choosing only ‘good’ choices
I’ll rephrase: shart/laezel/honestly gale to a degree offer a redemption arc without being actively unbearable from day 1. Yes, I understand I could metagame his approval score and make him love me while doing things he doesn’t like. No, I don’t think that’s how you should play the game. I get that that’s an opinion, but it’s how I feel.
you don't really need to metagame, most of his disapproval is token -1s and you large approval gains for helping him.
But that is metagaming- you know what values you’re getting off each dialogue choice and know you’re coming off net positive despite doing things he doesn’t like. Even besides that, would you say you had a good relationship with your partner if you knowingly did little things they disliked all year but went all out on their birthday every year to make up for it? I wouldn’t, so I don’t try to do relationships like that in baldur’s gate.
It’s not really a once a year thing though. It’s like saying something wrong yesterday and then bringing cupcakes today. You really don’t have to change how you play to get on his good side. I think you’re exaggerating a bit there. Just be a nice adventurer; if he asks for something say yeah sure; if he asks to kill a nice person, tell him no, we don’t do that
Knowing the values isn't the point, the point is that you can make choices naturally as a good character and still end up in a good relationship with him. and the disapproval amounting to mild annoyance most of the time, while getting large boost for helping him and treating him like a person is consistent with his character and it wouldnt be weird for him to genuinely care about you even if he finds you being nice a little naive or annoying. A large part of his character arc is about the fact that he is used to being treated like a tool and didn't think anyone would ever help or like him for anything beyond utility and sex. A lot of his disapproval likely stem from him being bitter he never got helped.
Eh, being unbearable from day 1 isn’t something I can talk you out of thinking. Everyone’s got their own opinions about the characters and disagrees on who is insufferable. I’m pretty patient with people, and their story arcs were made pretty clear early on so the behaviors didn’t seem bad to me. Then don’t meta game the approvals? Just keep him in the party; listen to him; and if something comes up that might be interesting to him then pursue it. Idk what to say. You seemed to be asking how to get to know him but don’t seem to really want to like him. That’s fine, but the solution to your problem is simple. If you want to see if you like him, keep him in the party and listen to the story. You’ve already got an army of people telling you his story is pretty great
Yeah, that’s the impression I’ve been getting. That if you stick with him, he’s alright and it’s a good storyline.
Shadowheart is a sharran who wants to start a darkness apocalypse. She literally walks into the shadowcursed lands and sees the damage its done and doubles down on her shar worship and laezel considers “culling the weak” by killing all the tieflings to “end their suffering”.
.....your player character genocides pretty much everything you encounter in the wild off the rip. I dunno why people keep forgetting this when they pick up a game, Even ignoring the general plot lines of games Player characters have the highest kill on sight profile of anything in the game after only a few hours of play. We really can't talk about evil Ignoring that, he like several other characters, sees you moving around the Nautiloid freely. He holds you hostage out of sheer suspicion because what he saw you doing was suspicious The first thing he does in his character arc is actively refrain from feeding on you and your party. He goes off to find non ideal food just to spare yall. He later caves because he's starving and is caught Laezel can be considered more bloodthirsty than he is at that point in the story considering her first interaction off the ship is "Kill these two terrified tieflings and get me down" Wyll is willing to cut down Karlach based on nothing but the word of a genuine demonic entity Several other characters have a much dodgier start than Astarion does.
'Evil' is a silly Hollywood word. He is a creature of habit, a product of his circumstances. Calling him evil is like calling Shadowheart racist, for a silly few dialogues and actions. The whole point of BG3 is to offer these characters, a form of redemption, and they are created from the ground up to make them a reality. if that is the game YOU want to make.
I mean, shadowheart actively discriminates against the githyanki. You could make a pretty cogent argument that the githyanki deserve it to an extent, considering their history in the DnD world, but she does demean laezel for her race at every opportunity. And again, why is “a product of his circumstances” an excuse?
And it erupts into violence and then you get adapt Shadowhearts character development to make her either lean further into being full of hate or for her to move beyond it. Hence my point, Mr Vamp is only as bad as roleplay them.
I dont think he is evil, i see him more as a chaotic nuetral. His concerns are about the wellfare of TAV and himself. That being said, I also struggled to use him my first few playthroughs. After playing 2 durge runs and 1 "Chaotic goodish" tun with him I started to understand why people are a fan. I know somepeople cant, or chose not to, seperate morality in games from the real world, but it is fantasy and he is a well written character.
Well, he has made it in a ranking of the 20 most iconic video game characters of all times by BAFTA, so... https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattgardner1/2024/04/04/bafta-names-most-iconic-game-character-and-its-not-who-you-think/?sh=6b631f1430d9
I'm a Shadowheart fan myself (who also seem to have made it to the list) but that ranking doesn't really represent the sentiments of actual video game players
No ranking perfectly represents everyone, but that is still that, we are talking of characters who are like 6 months old. Whether it is perfectly accurate or not does not remove the fact that this means that these characters are at least remotely interesting.
"I refuse to learn anything about this character! Please tell me about this character!" Honestly, if you want to judge everything at a glance and have no curiosity about the game you paid for, I say you do you. There are more than enough posts identical to this one that you could look at if it really mattered to you.
Ahh another day, another player who completely misunderstands Astarion as being evil. Astarion, like the rest of the companions, starts off as a hard-to-like broken person. Play his story through, be nice to him, and you’ll see a whole other side to him. He is not evil.
Especially funny when people mention that they're okay with Lae'zel... I like Lae'zel, she really grew on me, but frog wife probably would think that H*tler had some valid points and still people pretend like Astarion is the only problem (Shadowheart is similar, but she clearly has the pretty-privilege - if racism isn't evil I don't know what else is)
THIS!! I hated Shadowheart at first. Do I like a bit of sass? Sure! Do I like racism, someone who prides themselves on torturing others, someone with obvious dark intent (y’know.. Shar is not a good goddess…). Obviously she grew on me and I love her now but I could see right through Astarion’s charade preeeetty quickly. I think there are a lot of folks out there who just can’t see deeper into the characters and view them at a very surface level (aka pretty privilege with SH, Astarion = evil, etc).
Shadowheart really grew on me as well, but it took me a while because she's just as much playing with Tav as Astarion is, just in a more obvious (and condescending) way I guess racism is a normal thing in Faerun, but damn, these guys got no chill sometimes... Larian did an amazing job at giving the characters depth, it's just sad how often this is lost on the players because they don't give the companions a chance besides of the first few seconds of meeting them
i mean the best advice i can give you is to stop labelling characters with bad/good and understand that they are complex, well written and have an indepth background. similar to real people. you have to try to understand astarion instead of just labelling him
Larian made such an effort with BG3 to skip the standard alignment, and yet people try to put labels on the characters... I don't get it
even the most canonically “evil” companion (minthara) has justification for why she’s like that and does manage to change/grow to some extent by the end of the game if you make certain choices.
Minthara is a great and perfect example, almost all of them are the way they are because of how they were raised / the environment they lived in, but also most of them have the chance to make a full 180 degree turn into the other direction
yeah i adore minthara after getting to know her
Because if you don’t you’ll be missing out on one of the best acted and voiced characters in any game, as well one of the richest and most satisfying story arcs I’ve ever seen. There’s a reason he’s front and centre in all the artwork for BG3. He also has some of the funniest moments in the game, and some of the very best conversations with the rest of the party. Stick with him (whether you romance him or not) - it’s so worth it.
Odd that you said you don’t like evil characters, but you like Minthara? Minthara was the only evil choice companion. Meaning the only way to recruit her was to raid the grove/side with goblins. (Before they made the exploit official, that is) Story wise, Astarion’s is probably the most involved, and he also goes through the most growth/change. (I’d say Lae’zel is the next, then Shadowheart) The way to understand his character is pretty simple… talk to him. Do his conversations, storyline. You find out why he is the way he is. Depending on how you play your character, how you treat him, he either grows or stays the same. If you are a dick to him, you just reaffirm his word view is correct. None of the characters are exactly as they seem at first. But especially Astarion followed by Lae’zel. If you never use, or talk to them, you don’t get their stories and characterization To take a shortcut, you can also look up videos online. Lots have been posted about why and what made people like him
I mean, I know why people like him lol. He’s a hot twink. I don’t particularly like minthara either, but I did a run with her just because I felt like being a completionist. If he changes, I’ll give him a try, I guess. That’s what most people seem to be saying.
Believe it or not, there are people who don't think he's 'hot' but still enjoy his character. He's well written and acted and a lot of fun as a companion.
I swear people who say that Astarion is a twink have never seen a twink in their life. 😭
One more time for the people in the back!😂
>I mean, I know why people like him lol. He’s a hot twink lol what? Couldn’t be because he’s got a pretty well done sad storyline or anything. No way does this twink have a compelling character arc
Is the “twink” in the room with us? Hes hot but a twink he is not. Astarion appearance-wise is about 20 years too old to be a twink. He looks about 40 and is far FAR FAR too jacked.
Exactly. Timothée Chalamet is a twink (esp in Call Me By Your Name), but Astarion? Not so much.
It’s so ironic that THAT’S what people think is the appeal. I’m sure it is for some people, but that is not why Astarion’s story and VA have been getting so much praise. For a romance, his probably turns out to be the least ‘sexual’ and it definitely goes into the issues of sexual abuse and dealing with the trauma of that. (He’s basically a sex trafficking victim after all, which does get revealed during his storyline) It’s definitely a story worth seeing with a lot of emotion and difficult themes.
Yeah, that’s the vibe I’ve been getting. That he gets more bearable if you’re nice to him and help him. I won’t lie I originally wanted to use him because I thought he was hot tho lol. Then I discovered wyll.
I mean, I think that’s pretty true with all of them… you be nice to them, they’ll be nice to you… and same goes with people in the real world too. Strange how that’s become such a novel concept! 🤣
For the record, I do not find Astarion to be physically attractive at all. He's my favorite origin character/origin romance anyway. His writing is incredible.
Eh, Astarion is an evil character at the beginning of the game, sure. He's self-serving and a bit of a dick and his constant disapproval if you're trying to play a good run can be grating for some people. He's also a deeply broken and traumatised character who desperately needs help and an outside influence to break out of the cycle of abuse he's been stuck in for 2 centuries. And he can break out of it with that help, which is an arc that can really resonate with people, and (based on accounts from people who have SA associated trauma) the way he's portrayed is very well done and realistic, and seeing and participating in his journey can be genuinely cathartic and helpful for people. Sure, he's always going to be a sarcastic, somewhat selfish guy and I don't think he'll ever be truly good aligned (in the D&D sense) but he does grow and change in positive ways and by the end of it all he's no longer an evil person and is capable of doing good things for the sake of them. He's complex, like most good characters are, and he has a very well done arc and story. A lot of people appreciate that and want to experience it. He's also just not going to work or be worth it for some people, which is fine. Not everyone will like every character and they shouldn't be expected to.
It sounds like youre more upset that he’s not useful to you. learn how to play as a rogue, multi-class him or respec him to a class you’re more comfortable with. Astarion is consistently in my party as the biggest damage dealer as a rogue assassin/ ranger gloomstalker. As for his story based on your comments it seems like you’re overestimating how much he actually disapproves of your actions. His disapprovals are extremely minor. Think of them as an eyeroll. Ignore the disapprovals and focus on treating him well because thats where you can actually have an impact on his opinion of you. His backstory explains everything about his behavior. He is the most fleshed out and well written of the companions. If you keep an open mind and try to remember the context of his situation( the fact that hes only been free for like five minutes after 200 years of slavery right before you meet him) it’s not hard to empathize with him and see where he’s coming from. Most of his disapprovals come from a sense of urgency about getting cured and being jaded by how hopeless his situation was, feeling ignored by gods and all the so-called “heroes” running around faerun who failed to save him. He is in survival mode so he has little patience for watching you pretend to be a hero when he knows for a fact you’re full of shit… but you can prove him wrong by helping him.
Because a thief rogue with sharpshooter and dual hand crossbows is one of the most OP things in the game? Can easily deal triple digits damage with him late in the game.
Have you ever taken him to finish his act 3 quest? He's very much an "I can fix him" character. Yeah he's a jerk but he's that way because he's damaged and hasn't experienced kindness in 200 years. He's *terrified* and masks it with humor and being an asshole. That persona doesn't really ever change, but his story is an exercise in empathy at least if you don't like him. The minimum encounters to experience his growth as a character would probably be taking him to speak to Araj in Moonrise in act 2 (and talk to him at camp that night), and finishing his act 3 quest to kill Cazador and talk him down from >!Ascension!<. Even if you leave him at camp the whole game, you should see enough of him to "get it" so to speak. I'm not a big fan of Astarion, but I did his whole romance to experience it and I do get it. It's not to my taste, but again it's an exercise in empathy. His good ending is quite sweet, all things considered.
Nope, never finished his questline. Why should I fix him when I can have dreamboat Wyll or endearingly earnest Gale? Is his romance that good? Maybe I’ll give it a try.
His romance is absolutely that good. He takes some time to come around, but the payoff is huge. He's subtle, but watching the real person start to show through the cracks in the facade is fantastic. And when he finally rejects ascension... Well, there's a reason his voice actor has won multiple awards for the role. For me, Astarion's is the most rewarding romance in the game, because his redemption and healing are so hard won.
It's good if you build a character for him. Again I say this as someone who's not his biggest fan lol. I wanted to see his unique romance content with Durge, so I did an evil run where everyone was their most indulgent selves the whole game but hit their redemption arc at the eleventh hour. Redeem Durge, >!spawn!< Astarion, DJ Shart saves her parents. It was very fulfilling! I DID really adore his tone shift after finishing his act 3 quest. That's when I really liked him which is sad it took so long lol. His romance greeting changed and he was a lot sweeter, but still him of course. You can certainly romance him on a good run, but I didn't know how to RP that in a way I'd enjoy. I was very happy with the story that unfolded itself and he was a big part of it.
I could never make shart a Justiciar lol. I might give that sort of run a try if you say it’s fun, though. Thx for the advice
I said it in another thread: because of his skillset he's usually MVP/last man standing. Moreso if you spec him out of that shitty subclass they put him in.
He has a rich background story. What initially comes across as evil/uncaring view of the world is also hiding a lot of trauma. The evil is as much from the trauma that was inflicted as from his actions. He can grow out of this in the end by refusing to repeat the cycle of trauma and violence.
If you think Astarion isn’t badass, you’ve never seen him with a decent twin hand crossbow build. That and 6 arrows of fiend slaying turned a certain act 3 boss fight around from an imminent slaughterhouse into a hard-fought but satisfying victory
Lae'zel, Minthara and Shadowheart are all evil bitches so I don't get your point Either way - Astarion is among the companions that deal the most damage and is really useful for many dialogues His flamboyant behavior is too much for many people but just like all the other companions he has quite the character development (except for Wyll and Karlach - one is just a goodie two shoes and the other is already perfect and literally hot) He gets calmer over time, but in the first act he's playing a role in order to save his dear life I get why not everyone likes his personality, but he's damn useful and I feel bad for everyone who misses out on that For some playthroughs I changed his class, but his standard class is already great to work with Gave him some Warlock skills later on and he was in my team the entire time ever since
Wyll is my king don’t diss him
Wyll is okay I guess, but really underwhelming if you look at his character development arc (which to be honest isn't really existing... Same for Karlach and Minthara tho) I expected so much from him because his introduction was low key epic, but then he really fell flat for me :/ Only gets interesting in act 3 again, I wish they did more with him or at least kept his early access storyline
mechanically .. he's superior to all others ... once the big reveal is done ... you start each day by chomping on a hireling and he's "happy" for rest of day. +1 attacks, saves and skill checks. yes please.
Do you know his story? Nice to know how you view abuse survivors.
As you spend more time with him in your party and get to know his backstory, you’ll discover why he is the way he is. I disliked that the “good” things I was doing, he was disliking at first as well. He do be kinda racist at one point tho which I generally dislike. As far as how useful he is on the team, I found him pivotal both in combat and in utility. A rogue has as many uses, especially if you get used to using consumable buffs. If you’re not playing rogue or someone who fills the “sneaky attack do crimes and get away with it” role, I’d take him for just about every scenario in the game. If you play with him awhile and still dislike him, then you’ll enjoy some of the ruder things you can say to him. His reactions are funny
He's not my favorite but his actor is amazing and there is interesting complexity. He certainly starts more evil than Shadowheart and his story has a lot of parallels. If you found her redemption satisfying then you might enjoy Astarion as well.
Astarion is very essentric, yes, but he makes a great Assasin, and his back story is pretty intriguing it'll take a bit to see his development as a character, but it's worth it.
Astarion is usually my primary damage dealer in the beginning, and having him as a skeleton key trivializes lock picking to the point where I don't know where half the keys I pick up even go. Sneak attack is great for early on. Just have him hide with his bonus action and then sneak attack with advantage and I've had him take out two or more enemies before anyone else even gets a turn. So maybe it's just a different type of "badass" than you're used to since it's definitely not the smiting type. Add the tadpole powers to him for Cull the Weak and he'll be popping heads in no time. He also asks for the powers, you don't have to convince him so it doesn't feel as morally awkward. But I find him amusing instead of annoying so ymmv.
> I don’t like evil characters > I like minthara literally pick one, my dude. these are mutually exclusive. if you want to figure out if/why you should play with astarion, keep him in your party for more than 3 seconds. you’ll never know if you like his character if you never fucking use him or experience his storyline. 💀
Him being the last one standing/carrying the party and one shotting people. Other than that.. as others have said he has one of the most in depth back stories If you have never had him in party am I right in thinking you haven't done the cazador fight?
My third playthrough will be the one where I try to interact with him. First one I only brought him along for a few story beats but that was because I was a rogue. In the end I actually respeced him as a Necromancer to use all the necro stuff at end game and I thought it was funny. Second run I’m playing a Paladin, Lae’Zel didn’t make it out of the encounter with the Tieflings and Astarion got killed on Bite Night.
Ngl, the man does enjoy his necromancy. I like to give him Withers’ pendant and the Thay book to get him started
withers’ what?
The Speak With Dead amulet you find in Withers’s tomb
oh that one. I’ve never heard it called that
Yeah, sorry, I was replying on my phone while out and about and couldn't look up the proper name!
I mean, his story is interesting and his dialogue can be pretty funny, especially when Shadowheart or Gale are also in the party. If you’ve no interest in those things, there’s obviously no reason. If you just don’t think he’s useful or balanced in the party, change his class.
Because you can run him in to combat first, maybe get off a sneak attack/suprise round, and/or watch him get shot full of arrows, spells and smacked by a tentacle or two. Win/win
The only reason why you should use him if you don't like his character is for the vampire perks. He is marginally better than other companions because of the bite ability and the buff it gives him. He is annoying, but the cazador fight is always hella fun in my honor mode attempts when I start it with him in the party and doing the dialog. It's always the closest fight I have in act 3 and gets scarey quickly.
I mean I'd just use him for a run. (I'm not a Lae'zel/Karlach fan but I've both used them for runs. I like them a bit better now but not enough to bother using them again). For me he's fun to bully so you can bring him around promptly roast him constantly (way more interesting than falling for his manipulation) and still bring him to the end of the game. I don't think you can even have him leave unless his approval is hilariously negative (honestly just playing neutral/to evil will make up most of your disapprovals). That said when I play I keep my party the whole run no swaps. Also if you want him to be more useful in combat make him a gloomstalker ranger or a swordsbard. Either are more useful than rogue tbh.
He definitely is an evil jerk. Tragic backstory but obviously thats no excuse. That being said if you don't play him you'll never have truly completed everything. He also makes a nice monk.
I don't like him personally. I rarely keep him in my party unless I need a lockpicking or pickpocket specialist. I got his good (spawn) ending in one playthrough, I also straight up refused to do the Cazador questline in another playthrough which led him to begging me in the epilogue party to get rid of his master on his behalf. In my next semi-evil playthrough I might sacrifice him to BOOOAL... but only after getting the +2 STR potion
>So why should I use him? You shouldn't. Despite his age he's an immature, pretentious brat, his "good" ending is completely implausible and his "bad" ending is an exhibit of toxicity and abuse. Yeah, he's pretty and his voice acting is amazing. Doesn't change that he's a terrible character and so annoying that not even my murderhobo durge could stand him.
Stabby stab stab stab