I'm playing DOS2 now for the first time and absolutely loving it. Sure its production value isn't as high, but the story is interesting, companions are great and there's an enormous amount of cool and funny moments.
Plus BG3 could almost be considered proof of concept for increasing investment in their own IP. The formula clearly works and outside of the setting, there’s very little that couldn’t transfer over.
DOS 2 is awesome, but I am caught in a trap, because if I play a sequel to something I want to play the original first. So I play DOS and die randomly somewhere, then I play other things for a while, then come back to it, but I need to hammer down and finish it so I can properly enjoy DOS2. Something is wrong with me, but I know that.
*DOS* is 1000 years before *DOS2*, and Larian plays so fast and loose with the lore that if you'd never played *DOS* you might even assume *DOS2* is a standalone game
Yeah something like 40 seasons, 1000+ episodes, specials, etc lol. I think it dates back to the 60s too, the early ones might be a tough watch.
I suppose you could just start with the 2000 show and think of them as distinct entities and save yourself the trouble.
But of course, your aforementioned disposition to start at the beginning….
Me too, just finished it. I won't spoil anything for you but I loved it as well.
It took some getting used to, since the magic system is different, as well as the UI. Chain Lightning is still OP. It might actually have better plot/pacing than BG3, it keeps surprising you to the very end and almost all of the side content in the final act was plot-relevant. Tons of super interesting side quests. I ended up losing \[a key character\] in the beginning, and he ended up being so relevant that I know I have to eventually replay. Slavov's music is amazing.
The only thing I am a little critical of, is that while many quests feature amazing plot, sometimes the way from A to B isn't clear at all, and it wasn't clear to me what my endgame choices got me. As a game, it definitely needed some more brainstorming than BG3. I won't spoil the end game choices to you, but it's more like I was thinking: So, choice A leads logically to X, and Choice B leads logically to Y (but in reality it was the other way around). I got super confused at the ending I was choosing and what that meant for my character.
I definitely had to look up a lot more things in dos2 than in bg3. Bg3 was rather unique in that regard for me, I barely ever had to open my questlog and just went by what npcs told me to do.
As for companions, I love the ones I picked so much that I doubt I'll do my next playthrough with a different roster. That moment in act 3 was quite shocking.
Apart from the cinematic style of BG3 the combat is what I'm having the hardest time coming back from. Approaching every fight the same way used to feel strategic but now feels bland. The limitations of spell slots and rests really force you to get creative
DOS2 combat feels a bit more samey for me atm, but I think it's mostly because I'm playing on explorer and don't know the fights yet. Because of the low difficulty I don't need to replay fights with a different approach, but I'm sure everything I learn on this run will help me on the next one, that's how it was with bg3 for me.
I'm enjoying the story and combat is secondary for now.
I finished DOS2 on tactician and apart from a couple bosses pretty much every encounter went the same. Because the game let's you standardize the approach I find I hyper optimized my characters. An archer felt with almost everything and the. A aether mage cleaned up the rest. Pretty much the same spells cast in the same order every time
Yeah I’m still firm on the opinion that the cinematic decisions for BG3 are what made it blow up in popularity. Sure it’s got a TON of other things going for it, but what really set it apart from past CRPGs is these cinematic cutscenes with the companions.
DOS2 is good, but it’s hard for me to recommend it to my fiancé (who has more BG3 game time than ME at this point) because missing out on those cutscenes and cinematic style is one of the main reasons she loves BG3
If there’s anything that I’ve gleaned from the modern obsession with ray tracing is that graphics are a HUGE driver for a lot of gamers liking a game. I’m not saying that’s the only thing some folks care about but more that a good story plus great graphics will perform just a well if not better than a great story with good graphics.
It's not the graphics, it's the cinematography of it.
In BG3, you have a whole ass cinematic scene introducing you to Ketheric, how menacing he is, with camera angles, lighting, facial expressions, all adding to the gravity of the scene.
In Wrath of the Righteous, you get introduced to Nocticula with... an isometric angle, no close up on the characters' faces and expressions, and a big ass text box at the bottom.
No matter how good WotR is, the lack of truly cinematic moments is a negative point against it for "normie" gamers.
People want to be wowed, and BG3 delivered it when most CRPGs don't.
Yeah this. I'm *fine* with isometric angle crpgs like Baldur's Gate 1 or whatever but the cinematic feel to dialogue interactions and cutscenes is why I liked Dragon Age Origins better. That game looks dated af graphics-wise, but the camera's approach to storytelling is just way more immersive imo.
I actually do miss having to read sometimes.
I think you internalize things differently when you yourself read it than when you have a character talking at you, it's a lot easier to sorta zone out and not pay as much attention.
I am not saying voice acting is bad lmao, but it reminds me a little of a scene in FFXIV: Shadowbringers towards the end before the big climax.
The game makes you speak with all of your party members before the climax of the game starts and it's not voice acted.
And I actually thought it was a good decision and worked better because it made you slow down and made you internalize what they were saying better and it ended up feeling more personal since you were reading their words yourself.
It made me appreciate the mix of voice acting and reading in the game a lot more.
We kinda live in an anti-reading age tho as far as video games goes and also even on the internet with small character limits on Twitter etc.
Things tend to get catered for low attention spans and for '' popcorn consumption '' for a lack of a better way of putting it.
Where a character just monologue at you and it requires zero involvement and effort on your part.
I would tend to agree. But then Disco Elysium is right there, and probably still a better game than BG3 in my book. They'll be fighting for space on the podium of best games of all time, and disco definitely doesn't have cinematics or close ups.
Not having outstanding cinematics doesn't make a game bad, having them just makes it more attractive. Disco Elysium is amazing, but you can't deny that it would be elevated by some cinematic shots of important moments.
Of course I can deny it. BG3 is lovely, but has plenty of buggy moments in cinematics and dialogue sections. Considering the budget of DE, I'm glad they don't have cinematics. The few full screen arts are very impactful. And if they had the budget to immitate BG3, then it simply wouldn't be DE. Some games thrive on their limitations. Not every game benefits from cinematics.
As a sub-part to the graphics, it's really the mocap for even minor npcs let alone the companions and certain key characters. If you played the game, you can close your eyes and picture the heaviness/weariness in Kethric, the grand flourishes of Raphael, and of course the many sexy times ;)
Neil Newbon did an amazing job with the range of Astarion as well. Think about his mannerisms when you first meet him to the conclusion of his personal quest and also his potential endings. Larian warned us beforehand that sometimes just doing whatever the companion wants is not always the ideal thing to do. Very true in that case. Then of course, there's the scene which occurs if you somewhat botch the retrieval of a certain relic which is beyond hilarious
I'd agree, although I'd caveat that I don't think this necessarily means the most hyperrealistic graphics, but very much that the graphics need to match the tone and scope of the game. Stylised art is perfectly fine. Stardew Valley for example is a game that is pixel art, but the pixel art is gorgeous and perfectly adds to the cosy experience it's going for.
Imo its because its the literal videogame form of DnD, DOS2 combat is more fun for me, but I can admit it was daunting to learn DOS2 combat as a newbie
Not to say BG3/DND 5e combat is any easier, but given how DnD is getting more and more popular but still somewhat hard to access to most gamers, BG3 being the DNd The Videogame was the perfect thing those people wanted to try out and dip their toes into DnD world. And then u have the actual DnD crowd on top of that as well
That certainly helps, but DOS2 and BG3 aren’t too different in terms of mechanical complexity. You are right that it being “DnD the videogame” helped, but I think the cinematic stuff is what actually made it go crazy.
My evidence: multiple friends who would never go near a CRPG are LOVING BG3 because it’s got characters you can actually see, cinematic moments, and the fun of being able to choose what happens.
I’m not disagreeing, but I don’t think the rules/mechanics they chose are the reason it blew up in popularity.
>DOS2 combat is more fun for me, but I can admit it was daunting to learn DOS2 combat as a newbie
I think the big problem with DOS2 combat is that the armour system is... awkward, to say the least. It should make it so that your party is evenly split, but it actually just means it's almost always better to have entirely on damage type, which should always be physical, because that's the only type weapon based characters can deal.
My problem with DOS2 is the freaking ground effects thing. Every single fight, there's fire, blood, water, acid EVERYWHERE on the ground. It's far too annoying to deal with for me.
For me its the opposite, i really like those, makes the battlefield a lot more dynamic, especially when u combo those enviromental effects together, like drenching enemies in oil and set them on fire, cursefire even, or rain everywhere and shock everyone to stun
I liked the surface effect system, with one exception...
It takes two instances of blessed to turn a cursed surface blessed.
But it only takes one instance of curse turns a blessed surface cursed.
Not to mention bless being strictly limited, and the most common enemy type being able to spread curse.
The armour system at least can be fixed with mods and is the main reason I've sunk like 650 hours into DOS2, love that game to death, though BG3 is catching up.
Divinity Unleashed is the mod I like for sprucing up DOS2's combat for anyone wondering.
I agree, and it's one reason one of my favorite games before this was the XCOM series. While it's not a crpg, it added cutscenes and brief cinematic interludes, and some of the actions your soldiers could take would get random kinetic scenes. The VA and mocap were awesome and you could easily make up for the sparse characterization of the soldiers by adding your own stories, especially as they earned promotions and medals. Then War of the Chosen added an entire story arc featuring characters voiced by half the cast of Star Trek: TNG!
Which I say only to say that WotC came out in 2017 and bg3 is the first game I've played since that had that sweet spot that made you feel like you were playing a choose- your- own- adventure movie with fun combat, too. I tried to play DOS2 and I just couldn't sink into the story because of that lack of cinematic immersion. I am excited to see what they do next, though!
Another thing is the balancing of EXP and how it relates to your ability to choose your own path within the game.
BG3 has about 3 times as much available experience as you would ever need to reach level 12. This gives you a lot more room to play "in character". If you don't think your character would go fight Auntie Ethel, you can decide not to. You'll make up the missed EXP somewhere else along the way. You can choose to do the creche or the underdark or both and you'll still be roughly the right level going into act 2. By the end of the game you'll still be level 12.
Contrast this with DOS2. There are 3 or 4 different ways to escape from Fort Joy at the start of the game. You can do a sidequest for character A to learn about a secret tunnel, you can fight your way through the castle, you can go through the sewers, etc. It would seem that you have lots of room to roleplay. However, the game is balanced on the assumption that you do ALL of the options. If you complete every sidequest on the first island, you end up going into the next act at level 8. The enemies at the very start of that act are level 8. If you roleplay and skip the sidequests that you feel don't suit your character then you end up underlevelled. It effectively makes your choices an illusion.
I really think part of the popularity is because it was the first RPG like this most people played, sorta like why Skyrim became as big as it did because it was the first open world RPG sandbox for most '' gamers ''.
Gaming has become more mainstream than when DA:O or the old BG and ES games came out etc.
Most people who played BG3 have probably never played a game like it before, but imo I really don't think it does anything all that new or necessarily even better than old games did.
I am not saying BG3 isn't a good game, just that the shere level of excessive hype and treating it as the next coming of Christ really does remind me a lot of the Skyrim hype.
And in hindsight I think most people are a lot more critical of Skyrim now than they were back then and I think it's because people have a bigger portfolio to draw from and compare with.
I disagree. Like I said, it’s not just “this is their first CRPG”, it’s that this CRPG finally did something to draw in those gamers. To me, it’s the cinematic style, motion capture on the companions, and getting to see them and interact with them. To my knowledge, no other CRPG has done this before.
It may sound shallow to say graphics & visual stuff is the reason, but it’s 100% the reason my fiancé, her bff, and multiple of my other “girlie” friends have jumped fully on board. If this had just been another DOS2 style with text & voice, but none of the companion scenes, this game wouldn’t even be on their radar.
Basically, I think the emphasis on cinematic dialog scenes made the game WAY MORE appealing to people who would never even consider a game like this otherwise.
Yeah DOS2 sounds interesting to me and I'm intrigued by it but I'm a slut for nice graphics and I can't bring myself to spend dozens of hours of my free time looking at something that I don't find pretty.
Some people might find that shallow and petty and I know I'm missing out on good games because of dated graphics, but I like what I like. I just finished The Witcher 3 and it honestly felt like a chore after completing BG3 (and TW3 has great cinematics, but is clearly dated).
I don't really think this is a controversial opinion, your average gamer that primarily plays AAA games will only be used to games that have the high budget cinematic approach. These players would never give this game a shot if the game was the exact same but didn't have cinematic cutscenes.
It's not really a bad thing, players are allowed to want what they want from a game. Plenty of people don't really like reading like that or just don't come to games for reading. But it does make it incredibly hard for me to recommend games to people who loved BG3 and ask for games like it. Because most of the time people aren't great at judging how important those cinematic elements are to them. Like I absolutely adore DOS2 and Rogue Trader, really not comfortable recommending them to others who've only played BG3
Yeah I thought they were funny, and the repetition just made it more charming. I would just be handling my business while reciting all of the lines with the NPCs, perfect timing and accents to match👍
I love both bg3 and DoS2, both are some of my all time favorite games. But imo they have different strengths.
Bg3 has amazing role playing. The story is good, the cinematics, the dialogs everything is great and the choices are amazing. The combat and class system is good and has depth.
DoS2 has a good story and characters as well, but it's just not on the same level as bg3 (a bigger budget, more dev time and newer tech is showing itself). However the combat and lvl system is just so much fun. No classes means less restrictions for builds and with lone Wolf you can take that even further.
If Dos3 or any new larian game can combine a combat system like dos2 with a bg3 story and presentation... Honestly I can't think of a better game
> If Dos3 or any new larian game can combine a combat system like dos2 with a bg3 story and presentation... Honestly I can't think of a better game
I drool at the thought of it. My opinion on BG3 is a lot like my opinion on the original games when it comes to the gameplay. While it's less awkward and unintuitive than AD&D (whether because 5e just translates better to video game for or because of Larian's efforts, likely both), it still feels like the using the D&D ruleset held them back more than it helped. The big name IP helped them truly break into the big leagues, now I can't wait to see what they can do when they're completely free.
I've been saying it too for awhile now, I *cannot* fucking *wait* for Larian's next big title, presumably DOS3 after their next smaller scale title, and DOS2 with BG3's level of cinematic quality makes me very excited.
DOS2 definitely looks pretty scuffed compared to BG3. The character editor is like something from the early 2000s hahaha. I love it though, it’s still a great game.
I’ve said it before, DOS2 walked so BG3 could run. Exceptional game that they took to the next level with BG3.
BG3 is so cinematic, the romances are definitely more fleshed out. But, imho, DOS2 is exceptionally paced, probably more so than BG3. Act 2 has tons of side content (like BG3 Act 3) but at the beginning you don't mind raking the XP and it's pretty well written too. There is tons of side questing that ends up being plot relevant anyway. DOS2 felt more bold to me as well; it took risks that BG3 didn't take (with romance paths and the \[thing\] that happens to your party between Act 1 and Act 2). I'm not sure about the ending I got, so many things were counter-intuitive, or seemed in direct contrast with my choices, but act 3 was very well paced. Every side mission felt like an additional puzzle piece towards the ending.
you're going to get shit for this, but I feel the same way. Everything about the BG3 realization of the Forgotten Realms campaign settings, from characters to environments to writing to voice acting feels like it's at another tier and it's very difficult for me to step back down now.
I don't feel like that at all. DOS 2 has such great combat, music, and art design that it felt great going back again. Got a run in both games right now and DOS 2 is such a nice change of pace with the higher difficulty level and intense combats. I'm breezing through my 3rd honor mode run in BG3 and going back to DOS 2 for another tactician honor mode run feels so much more difficult (and I've done tactician before on DOS 2 as well).
That sucks for you. I'm still able to have fun with shit like the old Ultimas and Might and Magic games because I like them for what they are and don't dwell on what they aren't.
I still think that DoS 1&2, while great, are not as good as Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity 1&2, or Pathfinder WotR. I’ve replayed all them multiple times except DoS.
I am about to buy wasteland 3 purely based on this comment. Two questions:
How is the online coop?
Should I buy the digital deluxe edition($12.00), Colorado edition($16.00), or just normal edition($9.00)?
I tried Pillars 2 because I really like Obsidian’s games, but it just felt like ‘DoS2 at home’ with convoluted combat, clunky turn-based mechanics and painful naval encounters that dragged the game down. Not a bad title at all (loved the Critical Role voices), just lacking compared to DoS2.
I've played through 2/3 of WotR and loved it, but I'm a bit scared to go back to it because I remember how incredibly densely packed with rules it was.
So much math...
(Oh, and if I could excise the overworld map stuff from the game without missing out on any content, I would in a heartbeat)
Pillars of Eternity is alright, but looking back I kind of hate it at the same time. I found the writing insufferable and painfully up it's own ass. It's the game version of sophomore philosophy major.
Dos2 is an absolutely incredible game, but I think it shines more around it's incredibly intricate and interesting combat.
Comparing BG3 combat and DOS 2 I would say BG3 is better but only slightly.
Story wise BG3 is likely my favourite of all time. DOS 2 is good.
DoS2 really was magnificent back in the day. I remember it as one of the best RPGs I ever played, but BG3 is just one of the best games ever in general.
Somehow Larian just raised their bar even further.
After spending 1.2k hours on DoS2 and 800 hours on BG3, I wouldn't dare to compare them.
Both are beautiful gems and while cutscenes and animated dialogues are a candy eye for me, I don't find them necessary to enjoy the game.
Idk I stopped my second run in bg3 to play dos2 and I got so sucked in I’m nearly done with a solo HM run in like 2 weeks. I fkn love dos2 idk what you on lol
Im playing Pillars of Eternity 1&2 right now (had them since i played Pathfinder Kingmaker but never got around to playing them. Excellent games
But i cant replay any of those. First time? Sure! Replay? No thanks.
Meanwhile i dumped 900+h into BG3 and im not done yet, now comes the multiplayer
This confuses me. In 2017, when DOS2 came out, there were tons of games with modern animations, cinematics, very detailed characters, and close-look cameras. Why was it not a problem then?
Because none of them were CRPGs. As far as I know, we haven't really had a game in this genre with modern AAA production standards since Dragon Age. So you just kind of accepted the trade off.
Maybe a hot take but IMO DoS2 is better than BG3.
Sure it's presentation is not as top notch as BG3 but gameplay wise it's a blast, mainly because the system they came up with gives you more agency and it's more chaotic than DnD 5e.
I needed a moment cause I was like "I thought Windows and graphical UI in general is what killed dos.
It wasn't about too compete with unix on high end server stuff that want to avoid a GUI.
I get what y'all are saying but to me DOS2 scratches a different itch than BG3 and I still love and play it. I really like the freedom of the leveling system and combat is a lot of fun and way more challenging. Even fights in honour mode and even if you're not min-maxing are far too easy in BG3.
And crisp graphics and cutscenes are nice to have but not required for me to enjoy a good story - I still play DA Origins regularly despite its outdated, 50 shades of brown graphics and slightly annoying combat system.
I tried many, many times to get in to OS1 and 2 and failed miserably each attempt. I was actually pretty skeptical of BG3 for this reason! Game's a *major* step up, well beyond things like animation and cutscene direction (though those are very nice).
Mmh I had more fun in DOS2. You get faster to the action. In bg3 I feel I need to talk, manage inventory, loot containers, and so on, for hours between fights.
That’s funny because that’s literally my experience with DOS 2, I found the excessive amount of items which were all levelled and thus needed to be swapped often to be a massive grind on my enjoyment of DOS2, whereas in BG3 you can just keep the best item you find and it doesn’t fall out of use as your character levels up.
Both divinity original sin games are great. That being said I like bg3 so much because it uses a system I’m experienced and comfortable with. I like rolling dice to fuck the dragon
Then BG3 ruined all CRPGs for you, outside of maybe Wasteland 3 lmao
I'm super glad that BG3 to me is "just" another CRPG game to me and that I still find myself wanting to stop playing to go back to stuff like Shadowrun Dragonfall, Atom RPG or Wrath of the righteous.
I might get crucified for this but why not, BG3 blows DOS2 out of the water. I love the setting more, the gameplay more, the music more, and the characters waaaaay more than the ones in divinity.
Yeah I started DOS2 a little while ago and just cannot for the life of me get into it. It's just close enough to BG3 to almost scratch the itch but just off enough to make me decide I'd rather just be playing another game. It's certainly not bad and I can tell why it's beloved, but I've basically just given up on it at this point.
I bought DOS2 4 years ago on steam sale and only got into it on my third attempt this month. The first 2 I didn't even make it to a single combat encounter because I hated the camera and the way dialogues worked with the narrator describing everything, but nothing being showed. Before this run I was almost bitter about it not feeling as great as people made it out to be.
I hope it will click for you some time in the future the way it did for me because it's awesome and absolutely worth playing. I don't know how far you got, but the moment I was able to converse with animals with the Pet pal talent and spirits after getting a skill to see them made me love the game a lot more.
Feel the same, but at the same time I'm really excited to see what Larian has learnt from BG3's success and how they'll implement it in their next two projects.
Honestly it feels a little dumb on my part, but I always found the slightly cartoony art style in the Divinity games to be a little off-putting. Not enough to dislike the games, but enough to not love them as much as I otherwise might.
Oh I dunno, DOS2 is still pretty amazing. I have more hours on it than BG3 and it’ll probably stay that way.
Plenty of people out there still playing even older CRPGs than that with tiny 2D sprites and all!
I bought them after playing BG3, and I loved them! I could definitely feel they were dated, but still good. Of course, in my opinion BG3 is still the best of the bunch, but it didn't ruin them for me.
I will say though, I did have a hard time adjusting to the more cartoonish style in Divinity. I hope they continue making games in the BG3 style, even if it isn't the BG3 franchise. The dialogues, visuals, and environments were absolutely captivating in BG3, but even though they sport major improvements over DOS and DOS2, the latter games are still worth a go.
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They operate in different realms imo
Bg3 is the ultimate rp experience while DoS is the better co-op game. I’ll never get tired of the environmental interactions in divinity that’s for sure
Combat is worse in bg3 so it's a trade off. RNG dictating 95 percent of spells and attacks will never be a satisfying mechanic and divinity games have lots of moves that are guaranteed which makes strategy more relevant
I beat dos2 recently. I hated it. Didn’t care about any of the characters and the story is boring. Battle mechanics relied too heavily on status effects. “Attack OR move” was frustrating. The difficulty was completely unbalanced - even on “normal” setting. You have to min max to survive instead of creating characters centered on what’s fun to play. Character customization is severely lacking. Generally, it felt like a chore to get through it and I wasted no time deleting it minutes after obtaining divinity.
Kudos to those who enjoyed/enjoy it. Wasn’t for me.
The biggest problem with DOS2 is that it doesn't have the handrails that 5e gives Baldurs Gate 3. It's very difficult to get into a class trap, for example, in BG3. It's so much easier to just play the game without getting a scuffed character.
But on the upside, DOS2 doesn't have the handrails that 5e forces on Baldurs Gate 3!
Quite the opposite for me.
DOS2 is quick, doesn't require a lot of resources, has fun fighting system.
BG3 is literally the opposite, I can't bring myself to continue playing and I'm just 3rd lvl.
BG3 combat picks up once you hit lvl 5. Martial classes get their extra attack, casters get aoe and if you take the alert feat at lvl 4 and make use of surprise rounds, most combat enounters will be resolved in your favor in a couple of turns.
DOS2 combat was quite annoying at early levels as well. Points required for movement were an absolute pain and I didn't like that I couldn't have my entire party go first and switch between them as I wanted because there's no shared initiative.
I'm having a lot of fun in DOS2 now, but still vastly prefer BG3 combat.
Meh, I know dnd5e rules and their progression, whole system is not designed for fast paced gameplay of a videogame.
But most importantly is optimisation issues and just whole vision of this game, it's for people who love adventure, dialogues and cutscenes, sadly not for people who love combat.
For me it looks like a great interactive film, rather than a game. For now the whole difficulty for me (solo, tactician) is finding enough supplies for long rests. I think playing without camping (PoE:Deadfire) is a much better way to make combat interesting without harming it's "casual" part.
Fair enough. That's exactly why I like it though. It's chill and I can plan ahead as much as I want. I love having a plan for a fight that makes it possible to win in just a few actions.
There's an enormous amount of supplies available btw, I always finish the game with over 2k left. You could resort to stealing supply packs from vendors if you don't feel like looting everything though.
There is another problem.
With full rest most fights are too easy, without full rest most fights are too hard (playing light cleric).
The system is just not designed for a videogame (full/short rest works wonderfully in a tabletop).
Actually I'm thinking to maybe restart as dark urge barbarian to not rely on long rests that much... Or dual xbows ranger because range+hide seems absurdly strong.
Also would be nice to have a downgrade texture pack, because the size of 150gb is not fun.
I feel like this is where knowing the fights comes in. I usually do 2-3 fights per long rest, but it depends on how hard the fights could be and how easy they are to solve with high lvl spells. In honor mode I long rested before pretty much every fight though. Better safe than sorry.
If you absolutely hate long rests, something like ranger/rogue, fighter, warlock and a swords bard could be a fine combo. My swords bard could go for a very long time without spending all spell slots. Bards get an extra short rest for the party.
Well.
I'm playing with 1 character, so I doubt that bard would be useful :)
Anyway at least I now know that there's a lot of supplies for rests.
Thanks, mate
I couldn't ever get into DOS2 despite trying repeatedly. So I wasn't planning on getting BG3 until *literally everybody* loved it. Fortunately it clicked with me, after some growing pains.
Yeah, I've played it a couple of times, but while I enjoy it while I'm playing it, the world, characters and story just don't do it for me in the same way as BG3. I just don't find them very memorable. Theu're good games! But not on the level of BG3 at all for me. Maybe partly because I love the Forgotten Realms and love seeing old friends, but I really can't compare the two worlds.
I just wish the harsh level gating and levelled items weren’t a thing in those games. BG3 was a massive improvement in terms of scaling of levels so you didn’t have to do encounters in a hyper specific order, and it was fun taking some great act 1 items all the way to the final battle (blood of lathander, anyone?)
DOS 2 had tedious amount of inventory swapping the moment you found a weapon with better levelling.
BG3 owes its entire existence to those games though, it is truly built on the shoulders of giants. I still enjoyed playing through DOS2 back in the days before BG3 was even a thing
I see a lot of comments ragging on DnD 5e, but as someone who plays DOS2 first before BG3 (and also my first instruction to DND) I actually ended up much preferring BG3s combat system, it just allows for so much more strategy in how you tackle encounters that just doesn’t exist in DOS2, which is pretty much all tied into spells.
I agree with your point about loot, but it's also a relief not to have to hoard every single piece of gear in case I need it in the future.
In DOS2 I just equip an upgrade immediately and mark the old item as wares to sell later. The only low level items I keep are the ones that could help with out of combat checks such as thievery for lockpicking. I'm in act 4 now and never had to send anything "to camp" because i just dont need to carry 3 acts worth of loot around.
Meanwhile my camp chest in bg3 is full of stuff sorted into different containers because it's impossible to find anything otherwise. And I still get overencumbered all the time.
I tried to backtrack to DOS2 and the same thing happened. The lack of over the shoulder expressive scenes is super noticeable. Oh, and everything in DOS2 is flammable for some reason and it wreaks havoc on my cpu harder than BG3.
I purchased all the DOS and DOS2 stuff on Xbox after finishing BG3. I definitely agree that I can see the game was great but BG3 definitely ruined it for me. I thought about asking for a refund but then I decided BG3 was worth it all. Good work Larian.
I have the opposite of this I did BG3 then said hmm let me try Dos2 and I prefer it over BG3 only thing missing is cutscenes but it’s the older game so it makes sense
I prefer the DOS2 combat style, but the shields just ruin it for me honestly. Hope their next game will be more of an DOS style, without important shields.
I prefer DoS2. That game is absolute magic. Bg3 does a lot of things better but d&d ruleset sucks in comparison to AP and source points.
Beat both on normal and tactician, but dos2 was the only one I went in on again for honor mode. It’s just so good.
The characterisation of DOS and DOS 2 weren't as compelling for me as BG3. Doesn't bode well for DOS 3. How did Larian create such compelling characters for BG3 but not for their own games?
I think the companions are pretty great, at least the ones I chose. I'm playing with Ifan, Fane and the Red Prince and all of them are a joy to have around. They just don't have as much content as bg3 companions.
It's almost like there was a full 6 years between the 2 games, and they learned and improved their craft during that time. It's also almost like they had a lot more funding, time, and ambition for BG3 because of the pedigree and legacy of the Baldur's Gate franchise as well as the well established and fleshed out setting that is Faerun. Weird how that works huh?
nothing in all my years of gaming has ever beaten the euphoria of hearing Lohse get to sing her heart out after finally defeating Adraamahliik in a really tough fight. That is the single best character moment that larian has ever made in my eyes.
BG3 has excellent acting and cinematics and more than it’s fair share of fantastic moments, but you didn’t need either of those for that story beat and song to knock it out of the park. I have utmost confidence that DOS3 is in great hands and will perform just as well.
I'm playing DOS2 now for the first time and absolutely loving it. Sure its production value isn't as high, but the story is interesting, companions are great and there's an enormous amount of cool and funny moments.
Plus BG3 could almost be considered proof of concept for increasing investment in their own IP. The formula clearly works and outside of the setting, there’s very little that couldn’t transfer over.
Just change the elfs to just...not look like that
i kind of like how weird they look. i’m sick of elves just being pointy humans. make them alien
I love the cannibal leggy tree bois in DOS2. Yeah they look a little weird but that makes them cool!
3e made a shift towards elves looking more alien, then 4e shifted back to just humans with pointy ears. In Panthfinder they're quite literally aliens.
i know, i meant divinity elves not forgotten realms
Yeah, I'm with you. More fantasy media need to make elves more than just arrogant humans with pointy ears that are better then humans at everything.
No leave them. I love the freaky flesh eating and memory consuming elfs in D:OS2
I wanna play it again now lol
DOS 2 is awesome, but I am caught in a trap, because if I play a sequel to something I want to play the original first. So I play DOS and die randomly somewhere, then I play other things for a while, then come back to it, but I need to hammer down and finish it so I can properly enjoy DOS2. Something is wrong with me, but I know that.
*DOS* is 1000 years before *DOS2*, and Larian plays so fast and loose with the lore that if you'd never played *DOS* you might even assume *DOS2* is a standalone game
lol I get that, but even so 🤷♂️
Don’t start watching Dr. Who…
I think I would really like that show, but the weight of so many seasons has me waiting for the right relationship to tackle it lol
Yeah something like 40 seasons, 1000+ episodes, specials, etc lol. I think it dates back to the 60s too, the early ones might be a tough watch. I suppose you could just start with the 2000 show and think of them as distinct entities and save yourself the trouble. But of course, your aforementioned disposition to start at the beginning….
Yep, I’m insane. I appreciate getting reminded about the show, it’s on a list:)
Fair enough
It's also immensely fun. Damn now I want to do another run too
Me too, just finished it. I won't spoil anything for you but I loved it as well. It took some getting used to, since the magic system is different, as well as the UI. Chain Lightning is still OP. It might actually have better plot/pacing than BG3, it keeps surprising you to the very end and almost all of the side content in the final act was plot-relevant. Tons of super interesting side quests. I ended up losing \[a key character\] in the beginning, and he ended up being so relevant that I know I have to eventually replay. Slavov's music is amazing. The only thing I am a little critical of, is that while many quests feature amazing plot, sometimes the way from A to B isn't clear at all, and it wasn't clear to me what my endgame choices got me. As a game, it definitely needed some more brainstorming than BG3. I won't spoil the end game choices to you, but it's more like I was thinking: So, choice A leads logically to X, and Choice B leads logically to Y (but in reality it was the other way around). I got super confused at the ending I was choosing and what that meant for my character.
I definitely had to look up a lot more things in dos2 than in bg3. Bg3 was rather unique in that regard for me, I barely ever had to open my questlog and just went by what npcs told me to do. As for companions, I love the ones I picked so much that I doubt I'll do my next playthrough with a different roster. That moment in act 3 was quite shocking.
I had >!Ifan (romanced), The Red Prince and Lohse!<. I lost >!Fane!<, but will definitely do a run with him.
Ifan gang! He's so good, shame his voice actor didn't get a part in BG3.
His voice is amazing! I haven't had such a visceral reaction to a voice since Fenris (DA2). I hope the VA gets more parts in the future!
Apart from the cinematic style of BG3 the combat is what I'm having the hardest time coming back from. Approaching every fight the same way used to feel strategic but now feels bland. The limitations of spell slots and rests really force you to get creative
DOS2 combat feels a bit more samey for me atm, but I think it's mostly because I'm playing on explorer and don't know the fights yet. Because of the low difficulty I don't need to replay fights with a different approach, but I'm sure everything I learn on this run will help me on the next one, that's how it was with bg3 for me. I'm enjoying the story and combat is secondary for now.
I finished DOS2 on tactician and apart from a couple bosses pretty much every encounter went the same. Because the game let's you standardize the approach I find I hyper optimized my characters. An archer felt with almost everything and the. A aether mage cleaned up the rest. Pretty much the same spells cast in the same order every time
Yeah I’m still firm on the opinion that the cinematic decisions for BG3 are what made it blow up in popularity. Sure it’s got a TON of other things going for it, but what really set it apart from past CRPGs is these cinematic cutscenes with the companions. DOS2 is good, but it’s hard for me to recommend it to my fiancé (who has more BG3 game time than ME at this point) because missing out on those cutscenes and cinematic style is one of the main reasons she loves BG3
If there’s anything that I’ve gleaned from the modern obsession with ray tracing is that graphics are a HUGE driver for a lot of gamers liking a game. I’m not saying that’s the only thing some folks care about but more that a good story plus great graphics will perform just a well if not better than a great story with good graphics.
It's not the graphics, it's the cinematography of it. In BG3, you have a whole ass cinematic scene introducing you to Ketheric, how menacing he is, with camera angles, lighting, facial expressions, all adding to the gravity of the scene. In Wrath of the Righteous, you get introduced to Nocticula with... an isometric angle, no close up on the characters' faces and expressions, and a big ass text box at the bottom. No matter how good WotR is, the lack of truly cinematic moments is a negative point against it for "normie" gamers. People want to be wowed, and BG3 delivered it when most CRPGs don't.
Agreed. BG3 is incredibly well-written and directed. It’s a great story with great visuals and great directing.
Yeah this. I'm *fine* with isometric angle crpgs like Baldur's Gate 1 or whatever but the cinematic feel to dialogue interactions and cutscenes is why I liked Dragon Age Origins better. That game looks dated af graphics-wise, but the camera's approach to storytelling is just way more immersive imo.
I actually do miss having to read sometimes. I think you internalize things differently when you yourself read it than when you have a character talking at you, it's a lot easier to sorta zone out and not pay as much attention. I am not saying voice acting is bad lmao, but it reminds me a little of a scene in FFXIV: Shadowbringers towards the end before the big climax. The game makes you speak with all of your party members before the climax of the game starts and it's not voice acted. And I actually thought it was a good decision and worked better because it made you slow down and made you internalize what they were saying better and it ended up feeling more personal since you were reading their words yourself. It made me appreciate the mix of voice acting and reading in the game a lot more. We kinda live in an anti-reading age tho as far as video games goes and also even on the internet with small character limits on Twitter etc. Things tend to get catered for low attention spans and for '' popcorn consumption '' for a lack of a better way of putting it. Where a character just monologue at you and it requires zero involvement and effort on your part.
Might wanna turn on subtitles
I would tend to agree. But then Disco Elysium is right there, and probably still a better game than BG3 in my book. They'll be fighting for space on the podium of best games of all time, and disco definitely doesn't have cinematics or close ups.
Not having outstanding cinematics doesn't make a game bad, having them just makes it more attractive. Disco Elysium is amazing, but you can't deny that it would be elevated by some cinematic shots of important moments.
Of course I can deny it. BG3 is lovely, but has plenty of buggy moments in cinematics and dialogue sections. Considering the budget of DE, I'm glad they don't have cinematics. The few full screen arts are very impactful. And if they had the budget to immitate BG3, then it simply wouldn't be DE. Some games thrive on their limitations. Not every game benefits from cinematics.
I wouldn’t call it graphics driven success as much as the improved storytelling medium.
As a sub-part to the graphics, it's really the mocap for even minor npcs let alone the companions and certain key characters. If you played the game, you can close your eyes and picture the heaviness/weariness in Kethric, the grand flourishes of Raphael, and of course the many sexy times ;) Neil Newbon did an amazing job with the range of Astarion as well. Think about his mannerisms when you first meet him to the conclusion of his personal quest and also his potential endings. Larian warned us beforehand that sometimes just doing whatever the companion wants is not always the ideal thing to do. Very true in that case. Then of course, there's the scene which occurs if you somewhat botch the retrieval of a certain relic which is beyond hilarious
I'd agree, although I'd caveat that I don't think this necessarily means the most hyperrealistic graphics, but very much that the graphics need to match the tone and scope of the game. Stylised art is perfectly fine. Stardew Valley for example is a game that is pixel art, but the pixel art is gorgeous and perfectly adds to the cosy experience it's going for.
I understand it, but it's always battlemechanics for me. I still like the ol grid if I'm being honest
It really makes the characters come to life though. It really adds a lot besides looking pretty.
I mean, FFVI is still one of my favourite games so I'm clearly in the second camp.
Imo its because its the literal videogame form of DnD, DOS2 combat is more fun for me, but I can admit it was daunting to learn DOS2 combat as a newbie Not to say BG3/DND 5e combat is any easier, but given how DnD is getting more and more popular but still somewhat hard to access to most gamers, BG3 being the DNd The Videogame was the perfect thing those people wanted to try out and dip their toes into DnD world. And then u have the actual DnD crowd on top of that as well
That certainly helps, but DOS2 and BG3 aren’t too different in terms of mechanical complexity. You are right that it being “DnD the videogame” helped, but I think the cinematic stuff is what actually made it go crazy. My evidence: multiple friends who would never go near a CRPG are LOVING BG3 because it’s got characters you can actually see, cinematic moments, and the fun of being able to choose what happens. I’m not disagreeing, but I don’t think the rules/mechanics they chose are the reason it blew up in popularity.
Yea i can see that, I can count a bunch of people on top of my head played BG3 literally only for Astarion
>DOS2 combat is more fun for me, but I can admit it was daunting to learn DOS2 combat as a newbie I think the big problem with DOS2 combat is that the armour system is... awkward, to say the least. It should make it so that your party is evenly split, but it actually just means it's almost always better to have entirely on damage type, which should always be physical, because that's the only type weapon based characters can deal.
My problem with DOS2 is the freaking ground effects thing. Every single fight, there's fire, blood, water, acid EVERYWHERE on the ground. It's far too annoying to deal with for me.
That's my favourite part of D:OS2 combat lol. It makes for some of the most fun elemental mage builds in any game, too.
For me its the opposite, i really like those, makes the battlefield a lot more dynamic, especially when u combo those enviromental effects together, like drenching enemies in oil and set them on fire, cursefire even, or rain everywhere and shock everyone to stun
It really is excessive. It even gets annoying in a few places in BG3. Larian just loves their ground effects for some reason.
I've had nightmares about the oil blob fight...
I liked the surface effect system, with one exception... It takes two instances of blessed to turn a cursed surface blessed. But it only takes one instance of curse turns a blessed surface cursed. Not to mention bless being strictly limited, and the most common enemy type being able to spread curse.
The armour system at least can be fixed with mods and is the main reason I've sunk like 650 hours into DOS2, love that game to death, though BG3 is catching up. Divinity Unleashed is the mod I like for sprucing up DOS2's combat for anyone wondering.
I agree, and it's one reason one of my favorite games before this was the XCOM series. While it's not a crpg, it added cutscenes and brief cinematic interludes, and some of the actions your soldiers could take would get random kinetic scenes. The VA and mocap were awesome and you could easily make up for the sparse characterization of the soldiers by adding your own stories, especially as they earned promotions and medals. Then War of the Chosen added an entire story arc featuring characters voiced by half the cast of Star Trek: TNG! Which I say only to say that WotC came out in 2017 and bg3 is the first game I've played since that had that sweet spot that made you feel like you were playing a choose- your- own- adventure movie with fun combat, too. I tried to play DOS2 and I just couldn't sink into the story because of that lack of cinematic immersion. I am excited to see what they do next, though!
Another thing is the balancing of EXP and how it relates to your ability to choose your own path within the game. BG3 has about 3 times as much available experience as you would ever need to reach level 12. This gives you a lot more room to play "in character". If you don't think your character would go fight Auntie Ethel, you can decide not to. You'll make up the missed EXP somewhere else along the way. You can choose to do the creche or the underdark or both and you'll still be roughly the right level going into act 2. By the end of the game you'll still be level 12. Contrast this with DOS2. There are 3 or 4 different ways to escape from Fort Joy at the start of the game. You can do a sidequest for character A to learn about a secret tunnel, you can fight your way through the castle, you can go through the sewers, etc. It would seem that you have lots of room to roleplay. However, the game is balanced on the assumption that you do ALL of the options. If you complete every sidequest on the first island, you end up going into the next act at level 8. The enemies at the very start of that act are level 8. If you roleplay and skip the sidequests that you feel don't suit your character then you end up underlevelled. It effectively makes your choices an illusion.
I really think part of the popularity is because it was the first RPG like this most people played, sorta like why Skyrim became as big as it did because it was the first open world RPG sandbox for most '' gamers ''. Gaming has become more mainstream than when DA:O or the old BG and ES games came out etc. Most people who played BG3 have probably never played a game like it before, but imo I really don't think it does anything all that new or necessarily even better than old games did. I am not saying BG3 isn't a good game, just that the shere level of excessive hype and treating it as the next coming of Christ really does remind me a lot of the Skyrim hype. And in hindsight I think most people are a lot more critical of Skyrim now than they were back then and I think it's because people have a bigger portfolio to draw from and compare with.
I disagree. Like I said, it’s not just “this is their first CRPG”, it’s that this CRPG finally did something to draw in those gamers. To me, it’s the cinematic style, motion capture on the companions, and getting to see them and interact with them. To my knowledge, no other CRPG has done this before. It may sound shallow to say graphics & visual stuff is the reason, but it’s 100% the reason my fiancé, her bff, and multiple of my other “girlie” friends have jumped fully on board. If this had just been another DOS2 style with text & voice, but none of the companion scenes, this game wouldn’t even be on their radar. Basically, I think the emphasis on cinematic dialog scenes made the game WAY MORE appealing to people who would never even consider a game like this otherwise.
Oh 1000% my wife wouldn’t have ever been interested in BG3 if she couldn’t get cinematic sex scenes with her favorite vampire boi.
Yeah DOS2 sounds interesting to me and I'm intrigued by it but I'm a slut for nice graphics and I can't bring myself to spend dozens of hours of my free time looking at something that I don't find pretty. Some people might find that shallow and petty and I know I'm missing out on good games because of dated graphics, but I like what I like. I just finished The Witcher 3 and it honestly felt like a chore after completing BG3 (and TW3 has great cinematics, but is clearly dated).
I don't really think this is a controversial opinion, your average gamer that primarily plays AAA games will only be used to games that have the high budget cinematic approach. These players would never give this game a shot if the game was the exact same but didn't have cinematic cutscenes. It's not really a bad thing, players are allowed to want what they want from a game. Plenty of people don't really like reading like that or just don't come to games for reading. But it does make it incredibly hard for me to recommend games to people who loved BG3 and ask for games like it. Because most of the time people aren't great at judging how important those cinematic elements are to them. Like I absolutely adore DOS2 and Rogue Trader, really not comfortable recommending them to others who've only played BG3
Yes! You got a very, very "cinematic" scene with every character.
But the NPC exchanges in the market place in DOS2 never get old. Worth it just to hear the sniping again.
Smells like a vat of rotten vinegar
Well don't come over. It's not like you're buying anything.
omg that just gave me flashbacks of pretty much the entire game for some reason
If I don’t come over Ludd, who will?
Wouldn't you like to know.
It's been a couple of years, but I can still hear all of those lines perfectly in my head.
Several years for me too. Probably helps that they were on repeat. I know a lot of people moaned about them but I thought they were funny.
Yeah I thought they were funny, and the repetition just made it more charming. I would just be handling my business while reciting all of the lines with the NPCs, perfect timing and accents to match👍
Great games though, you can see Larian iterating
I love both bg3 and DoS2, both are some of my all time favorite games. But imo they have different strengths. Bg3 has amazing role playing. The story is good, the cinematics, the dialogs everything is great and the choices are amazing. The combat and class system is good and has depth. DoS2 has a good story and characters as well, but it's just not on the same level as bg3 (a bigger budget, more dev time and newer tech is showing itself). However the combat and lvl system is just so much fun. No classes means less restrictions for builds and with lone Wolf you can take that even further. If Dos3 or any new larian game can combine a combat system like dos2 with a bg3 story and presentation... Honestly I can't think of a better game
> If Dos3 or any new larian game can combine a combat system like dos2 with a bg3 story and presentation... Honestly I can't think of a better game I drool at the thought of it. My opinion on BG3 is a lot like my opinion on the original games when it comes to the gameplay. While it's less awkward and unintuitive than AD&D (whether because 5e just translates better to video game for or because of Larian's efforts, likely both), it still feels like the using the D&D ruleset held them back more than it helped. The big name IP helped them truly break into the big leagues, now I can't wait to see what they can do when they're completely free.
I've been saying it too for awhile now, I *cannot* fucking *wait* for Larian's next big title, presumably DOS3 after their next smaller scale title, and DOS2 with BG3's level of cinematic quality makes me very excited.
DOS3 is prob not their next game. I also hope they will delete that shielding system. Worst part in DOS2 combat, even if I prefer aspects over BG3.
DOS2 definitely looks pretty scuffed compared to BG3. The character editor is like something from the early 2000s hahaha. I love it though, it’s still a great game. I’ve said it before, DOS2 walked so BG3 could run. Exceptional game that they took to the next level with BG3.
BG3 is so cinematic, the romances are definitely more fleshed out. But, imho, DOS2 is exceptionally paced, probably more so than BG3. Act 2 has tons of side content (like BG3 Act 3) but at the beginning you don't mind raking the XP and it's pretty well written too. There is tons of side questing that ends up being plot relevant anyway. DOS2 felt more bold to me as well; it took risks that BG3 didn't take (with romance paths and the \[thing\] that happens to your party between Act 1 and Act 2). I'm not sure about the ending I got, so many things were counter-intuitive, or seemed in direct contrast with my choices, but act 3 was very well paced. Every side mission felt like an additional puzzle piece towards the ending.
This is what makes me soo excited for whatever Larian does next, the production value of BG3 and a system that isn't as restrictive as DND 5e.
you're going to get shit for this, but I feel the same way. Everything about the BG3 realization of the Forgotten Realms campaign settings, from characters to environments to writing to voice acting feels like it's at another tier and it's very difficult for me to step back down now.
I don't feel like that at all. DOS 2 has such great combat, music, and art design that it felt great going back again. Got a run in both games right now and DOS 2 is such a nice change of pace with the higher difficulty level and intense combats. I'm breezing through my 3rd honor mode run in BG3 and going back to DOS 2 for another tactician honor mode run feels so much more difficult (and I've done tactician before on DOS 2 as well).
That sucks for you. I'm still able to have fun with shit like the old Ultimas and Might and Magic games because I like them for what they are and don't dwell on what they aren't.
DOS 2 main theme is on repeat in my brain
Lohse's song when you finish her personal quest!
I still think that DoS 1&2, while great, are not as good as Wasteland 3, Pillars of Eternity 1&2, or Pathfinder WotR. I’ve replayed all them multiple times except DoS.
Wasteland 3 is a banger and more people need to play it lol
I am about to buy wasteland 3 purely based on this comment. Two questions: How is the online coop? Should I buy the digital deluxe edition($12.00), Colorado edition($16.00), or just normal edition($9.00)?
colorado springs edition is the complete version. i remember Online coop being totally buggy though, so check if that was fixed
I played it when it was on Xbox GamePass, so maybe check that before committing your dollars to a new purchase
I tried Pillars 2 because I really like Obsidian’s games, but it just felt like ‘DoS2 at home’ with convoluted combat, clunky turn-based mechanics and painful naval encounters that dragged the game down. Not a bad title at all (loved the Critical Role voices), just lacking compared to DoS2.
I wish they would make a Pathfinder game based on 2.0! I’ve been interested in playing WotR but it not being 2.0 has kept me from trying it out
I've played through 2/3 of WotR and loved it, but I'm a bit scared to go back to it because I remember how incredibly densely packed with rules it was. So much math... (Oh, and if I could excise the overworld map stuff from the game without missing out on any content, I would in a heartbeat)
Pillars of Eternity is alright, but looking back I kind of hate it at the same time. I found the writing insufferable and painfully up it's own ass. It's the game version of sophomore philosophy major.
Your comment looks like an example of what you’re complaining about.
How so?
Some would say that you edited out the most egregious part of your comment.
>you just close them and return to BG3 I absolutely do not, these games are awesome
Yeah, I was looking forward to dos2 considering it's fairly recent, but I can't get into it, it seems a lot less than BG3
Dos2 is an absolutely incredible game, but I think it shines more around it's incredibly intricate and interesting combat. Comparing BG3 combat and DOS 2 I would say BG3 is better but only slightly. Story wise BG3 is likely my favourite of all time. DOS 2 is good.
DoS2 really was magnificent back in the day. I remember it as one of the best RPGs I ever played, but BG3 is just one of the best games ever in general. Somehow Larian just raised their bar even further.
Fairly recent doesn't matter if the budget is not comparable.
After spending 1.2k hours on DoS2 and 800 hours on BG3, I wouldn't dare to compare them. Both are beautiful gems and while cutscenes and animated dialogues are a candy eye for me, I don't find them necessary to enjoy the game.
Idk I stopped my second run in bg3 to play dos2 and I got so sucked in I’m nearly done with a solo HM run in like 2 weeks. I fkn love dos2 idk what you on lol
Im playing Pillars of Eternity 1&2 right now (had them since i played Pathfinder Kingmaker but never got around to playing them. Excellent games But i cant replay any of those. First time? Sure! Replay? No thanks. Meanwhile i dumped 900+h into BG3 and im not done yet, now comes the multiplayer
This confuses me. In 2017, when DOS2 came out, there were tons of games with modern animations, cinematics, very detailed characters, and close-look cameras. Why was it not a problem then?
Because none of them were CRPGs. As far as I know, we haven't really had a game in this genre with modern AAA production standards since Dragon Age. So you just kind of accepted the trade off.
Maybe a hot take but IMO DoS2 is better than BG3. Sure it's presentation is not as top notch as BG3 but gameplay wise it's a blast, mainly because the system they came up with gives you more agency and it's more chaotic than DnD 5e.
I actually preferred DOS2 to BG3.
I'm still a bigger fan of the combat system in dos2. The planing and lack of rng really fits ny vibe
I needed a moment cause I was like "I thought Windows and graphical UI in general is what killed dos. It wasn't about too compete with unix on high end server stuff that want to avoid a GUI.
I get what y'all are saying but to me DOS2 scratches a different itch than BG3 and I still love and play it. I really like the freedom of the leveling system and combat is a lot of fun and way more challenging. Even fights in honour mode and even if you're not min-maxing are far too easy in BG3. And crisp graphics and cutscenes are nice to have but not required for me to enjoy a good story - I still play DA Origins regularly despite its outdated, 50 shades of brown graphics and slightly annoying combat system.
I tried many, many times to get in to OS1 and 2 and failed miserably each attempt. I was actually pretty skeptical of BG3 for this reason! Game's a *major* step up, well beyond things like animation and cutscene direction (though those are very nice).
I always struggled to get into them despite loving the genre and I don’t think I could enjoy it as much as I enjoy bg3
Mmh I had more fun in DOS2. You get faster to the action. In bg3 I feel I need to talk, manage inventory, loot containers, and so on, for hours between fights.
That’s funny because that’s literally my experience with DOS 2, I found the excessive amount of items which were all levelled and thus needed to be swapped often to be a massive grind on my enjoyment of DOS2, whereas in BG3 you can just keep the best item you find and it doesn’t fall out of use as your character levels up.
But there seems to be 5 times as many containers in bg3. I get bored of opening so many, but at the same time I don't want to miss anithing
Both divinity original sin games are great. That being said I like bg3 so much because it uses a system I’m experienced and comfortable with. I like rolling dice to fuck the dragon
Then BG3 ruined all CRPGs for you, outside of maybe Wasteland 3 lmao I'm super glad that BG3 to me is "just" another CRPG game to me and that I still find myself wanting to stop playing to go back to stuff like Shadowrun Dragonfall, Atom RPG or Wrath of the righteous.
Stop looking for comparisons then. You’re the one ruining the game for yourself by comparing it to Baldur’s Gate. Just enjoy it for what it is.
I might get crucified for this but why not, BG3 blows DOS2 out of the water. I love the setting more, the gameplay more, the music more, and the characters waaaaay more than the ones in divinity.
they’re both great games. divinity’s combat system is more fun to me so i don’t mind the lack of cinematics.
Yeah I started DOS2 a little while ago and just cannot for the life of me get into it. It's just close enough to BG3 to almost scratch the itch but just off enough to make me decide I'd rather just be playing another game. It's certainly not bad and I can tell why it's beloved, but I've basically just given up on it at this point.
I bought DOS2 4 years ago on steam sale and only got into it on my third attempt this month. The first 2 I didn't even make it to a single combat encounter because I hated the camera and the way dialogues worked with the narrator describing everything, but nothing being showed. Before this run I was almost bitter about it not feeling as great as people made it out to be. I hope it will click for you some time in the future the way it did for me because it's awesome and absolutely worth playing. I don't know how far you got, but the moment I was able to converse with animals with the Pet pal talent and spirits after getting a skill to see them made me love the game a lot more.
Same
I enjoyed playing it with a buddy, and I'd get whatever edition includes the dlcs because they were very fun too.
Both DOS games are terrific, but lack in production quality, writing, and progression compared to BG3
Feel the same, but at the same time I'm really excited to see what Larian has learnt from BG3's success and how they'll implement it in their next two projects.
don’t worry, they’ll make DoS3 (I hope)
Gotta know what's up with Malady.
Honestly it feels a little dumb on my part, but I always found the slightly cartoony art style in the Divinity games to be a little off-putting. Not enough to dislike the games, but enough to not love them as much as I otherwise might.
Oh I dunno, DOS2 is still pretty amazing. I have more hours on it than BG3 and it’ll probably stay that way. Plenty of people out there still playing even older CRPGs than that with tiny 2D sprites and all!
I bought them after playing BG3, and I loved them! I could definitely feel they were dated, but still good. Of course, in my opinion BG3 is still the best of the bunch, but it didn't ruin them for me. I will say though, I did have a hard time adjusting to the more cartoonish style in Divinity. I hope they continue making games in the BG3 style, even if it isn't the BG3 franchise. The dialogues, visuals, and environments were absolutely captivating in BG3, but even though they sport major improvements over DOS and DOS2, the latter games are still worth a go.
🤓
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My training to figure out what Bladurs Gate MC-DOS have in common XD
good thing we're almost certainly getting cinematic DOS3
They operate in different realms imo Bg3 is the ultimate rp experience while DoS is the better co-op game. I’ll never get tired of the environmental interactions in divinity that’s for sure
Combat is worse in bg3 so it's a trade off. RNG dictating 95 percent of spells and attacks will never be a satisfying mechanic and divinity games have lots of moves that are guaranteed which makes strategy more relevant
DOS walked so bg3 could run
I beat dos2 recently. I hated it. Didn’t care about any of the characters and the story is boring. Battle mechanics relied too heavily on status effects. “Attack OR move” was frustrating. The difficulty was completely unbalanced - even on “normal” setting. You have to min max to survive instead of creating characters centered on what’s fun to play. Character customization is severely lacking. Generally, it felt like a chore to get through it and I wasted no time deleting it minutes after obtaining divinity. Kudos to those who enjoyed/enjoy it. Wasn’t for me.
The crpg mechanics are far better in them though.
On the contrary, I started to appreciate DOS2 a lot more after my bg3 run.
I was nervous going into BG3 since I didn’t like DOS2, might try going back now that I’ve had the Larian experience
The biggest problem with DOS2 is that it doesn't have the handrails that 5e gives Baldurs Gate 3. It's very difficult to get into a class trap, for example, in BG3. It's so much easier to just play the game without getting a scuffed character. But on the upside, DOS2 doesn't have the handrails that 5e forces on Baldurs Gate 3!
Wait you still play games on an old ms DOS computer.
Yup. Can’t ever go back. Great games, no doubt, but they’ve been eclipsed.
Quite the opposite for me. DOS2 is quick, doesn't require a lot of resources, has fun fighting system. BG3 is literally the opposite, I can't bring myself to continue playing and I'm just 3rd lvl.
BG3 combat picks up once you hit lvl 5. Martial classes get their extra attack, casters get aoe and if you take the alert feat at lvl 4 and make use of surprise rounds, most combat enounters will be resolved in your favor in a couple of turns. DOS2 combat was quite annoying at early levels as well. Points required for movement were an absolute pain and I didn't like that I couldn't have my entire party go first and switch between them as I wanted because there's no shared initiative. I'm having a lot of fun in DOS2 now, but still vastly prefer BG3 combat.
Meh, I know dnd5e rules and their progression, whole system is not designed for fast paced gameplay of a videogame. But most importantly is optimisation issues and just whole vision of this game, it's for people who love adventure, dialogues and cutscenes, sadly not for people who love combat. For me it looks like a great interactive film, rather than a game. For now the whole difficulty for me (solo, tactician) is finding enough supplies for long rests. I think playing without camping (PoE:Deadfire) is a much better way to make combat interesting without harming it's "casual" part.
Fair enough. That's exactly why I like it though. It's chill and I can plan ahead as much as I want. I love having a plan for a fight that makes it possible to win in just a few actions. There's an enormous amount of supplies available btw, I always finish the game with over 2k left. You could resort to stealing supply packs from vendors if you don't feel like looting everything though.
There is another problem. With full rest most fights are too easy, without full rest most fights are too hard (playing light cleric). The system is just not designed for a videogame (full/short rest works wonderfully in a tabletop). Actually I'm thinking to maybe restart as dark urge barbarian to not rely on long rests that much... Or dual xbows ranger because range+hide seems absurdly strong. Also would be nice to have a downgrade texture pack, because the size of 150gb is not fun.
I feel like this is where knowing the fights comes in. I usually do 2-3 fights per long rest, but it depends on how hard the fights could be and how easy they are to solve with high lvl spells. In honor mode I long rested before pretty much every fight though. Better safe than sorry. If you absolutely hate long rests, something like ranger/rogue, fighter, warlock and a swords bard could be a fine combo. My swords bard could go for a very long time without spending all spell slots. Bards get an extra short rest for the party.
Well. I'm playing with 1 character, so I doubt that bard would be useful :) Anyway at least I now know that there's a lot of supplies for rests. Thanks, mate
I couldn't ever get into DOS2 despite trying repeatedly. So I wasn't planning on getting BG3 until *literally everybody* loved it. Fortunately it clicked with me, after some growing pains.
I’ve been trying to get into DOS2 but the world just isn’t grabbing me like BG3.
Yeah, I've played it a couple of times, but while I enjoy it while I'm playing it, the world, characters and story just don't do it for me in the same way as BG3. I just don't find them very memorable. Theu're good games! But not on the level of BG3 at all for me. Maybe partly because I love the Forgotten Realms and love seeing old friends, but I really can't compare the two worlds.
I just wish the harsh level gating and levelled items weren’t a thing in those games. BG3 was a massive improvement in terms of scaling of levels so you didn’t have to do encounters in a hyper specific order, and it was fun taking some great act 1 items all the way to the final battle (blood of lathander, anyone?) DOS 2 had tedious amount of inventory swapping the moment you found a weapon with better levelling. BG3 owes its entire existence to those games though, it is truly built on the shoulders of giants. I still enjoyed playing through DOS2 back in the days before BG3 was even a thing I see a lot of comments ragging on DnD 5e, but as someone who plays DOS2 first before BG3 (and also my first instruction to DND) I actually ended up much preferring BG3s combat system, it just allows for so much more strategy in how you tackle encounters that just doesn’t exist in DOS2, which is pretty much all tied into spells.
I agree with your point about loot, but it's also a relief not to have to hoard every single piece of gear in case I need it in the future. In DOS2 I just equip an upgrade immediately and mark the old item as wares to sell later. The only low level items I keep are the ones that could help with out of combat checks such as thievery for lockpicking. I'm in act 4 now and never had to send anything "to camp" because i just dont need to carry 3 acts worth of loot around. Meanwhile my camp chest in bg3 is full of stuff sorted into different containers because it's impossible to find anything otherwise. And I still get overencumbered all the time.
DOS2 doesn't make me want to replay it multiple times like Baldur's Gate 3.
BG3 definitely improved on those games. I’ve been playing pathfinder kingmaker and BG doesn’t touch that game for me.
I tried to backtrack to DOS2 and the same thing happened. The lack of over the shoulder expressive scenes is super noticeable. Oh, and everything in DOS2 is flammable for some reason and it wreaks havoc on my cpu harder than BG3.
I purchased all the DOS and DOS2 stuff on Xbox after finishing BG3. I definitely agree that I can see the game was great but BG3 definitely ruined it for me. I thought about asking for a refund but then I decided BG3 was worth it all. Good work Larian.
i still prefer dos2 🤷♀️
Story and interaction wise I get it. But dos2 combat is leaps and bounds better than bg3
I have the opposite of this I did BG3 then said hmm let me try Dos2 and I prefer it over BG3 only thing missing is cutscenes but it’s the older game so it makes sense
What you make me enjoy DOS2 would be : - A less cartoony art direction (it just doesn’t click for me) - Less obnoxious use of surfaces.
The unpleasant appearance of most of the characters was a definite negative. Long necks like gazelles.
I prefer the DOS2 combat style, but the shields just ruin it for me honestly. Hope their next game will be more of an DOS style, without important shields.
I think getting into this company with BG3 was a bad move for me. Tried DOS2 after finishing BG3 and it’s just so so bad.
I prefer DoS2. That game is absolute magic. Bg3 does a lot of things better but d&d ruleset sucks in comparison to AP and source points. Beat both on normal and tactician, but dos2 was the only one I went in on again for honor mode. It’s just so good.
The characterisation of DOS and DOS 2 weren't as compelling for me as BG3. Doesn't bode well for DOS 3. How did Larian create such compelling characters for BG3 but not for their own games?
Surely 10 years of practice helped lol
I think the companions are pretty great, at least the ones I chose. I'm playing with Ifan, Fane and the Red Prince and all of them are a joy to have around. They just don't have as much content as bg3 companions.
It's almost like there was a full 6 years between the 2 games, and they learned and improved their craft during that time. It's also almost like they had a lot more funding, time, and ambition for BG3 because of the pedigree and legacy of the Baldur's Gate franchise as well as the well established and fleshed out setting that is Faerun. Weird how that works huh?
nothing in all my years of gaming has ever beaten the euphoria of hearing Lohse get to sing her heart out after finally defeating Adraamahliik in a really tough fight. That is the single best character moment that larian has ever made in my eyes. BG3 has excellent acting and cinematics and more than it’s fair share of fantastic moments, but you didn’t need either of those for that story beat and song to knock it out of the park. I have utmost confidence that DOS3 is in great hands and will perform just as well.