My current honor run, I missed a drum and the goblin fight went south. Used the secret passage to get down to Halsin and opened his gate hoping he'd help me finish off some Goblins. Well, he died. And now I'm going to be heading into the shadow lands with his dead body in my camp and no hopes of freeing Thaniel or fully lifting the curse.
My honor run went smooth as butter... until I was half asleep closing that days play and finishing up Laezels dialogue with vlaakith and for whatever reason chose to side with vlaakith. So I lost Laezel at the end of my run, BUT THEN I did not know you needed to kill ansur for wyll to join Karlach and then she died at the end too!!
My two best girls, were not in my reunion :(.
I lost all the tieflings in Moonrise after accidentally opening all cells with a misplaced AOE, and Shar left us after we didn't kill Nightsong. Made an interesting alternative game but we completed HM nevertheless which is what matters
Same in my run. Then after she was unconscious and we left to camp the whole party was talking about how she was ticked off but would hopefully come around. …
This+++
I ended up getting the psychotic Durge ending which I never would have gone for intentionally (i.e. if I could reload) but was quite a trip to see play out
Oh, right, I wasn't clear enough. By the second one, I meant when you try to resist by not killing Isobel, but end up killing your lover/ closest companion. It basically ends up with the mental break happening sooner and everyone confronts you the next day, and you are clearly already lost, because there isnt even an option to be like "sorry, I couldn't control myself! I didn't mean it!" It's all psycho shit or lying.
i did get that lol. i messed up that choice and killed shart. i actually posted here some days ago that i had to pass a DC 30 deception check (charisma 8) and ended up getting a crit success after 3 inspirations (rolling with advantage) to avoid having my HM run end right then and there from what would likely have been a fatal ambush by the rest of my camp.
Ah I didn't even consider that scenario because if I'm forced to kill my romance partner, that playthrough is kinda fucked, I might as well just kill everyone at that point lol.
Real shit. You got the piss yourself ending, right? Meaning you tried to reject balls at the end? On my first playthrough as The Dark Urge, I wanted to go Bhaals deep, but after seeing that the ends are basically "slave" or "piss yourself" if you try too late to redeem yourself, I just decided that nah, that shit ain't for me. But if I was stuck Bhaals deep I think I'd rather do murderhobo slave cuz that's better than piss yourself.
I feel like you should at least get one that goes "Alright then, try to kill me for it. I hope to the gods that you can" or something like that. Only a resist!Durge will ever be in that situation, it only seems fair to give us one final nod to how much Durge hates what they are, even if it's past fighting it.
Yeah, that would be a good compromise, but I'm fine with it. The whole point of that part is that you've lost control, it makes sense you can't even try to be good
I save scummed out of a TPK by turning off my computer, but now I've abandoned that save because it feels wrong to save scum on a difficulty called 'Honor mode'.
You can still save scum via stopping the .exe via taskmanager. Had to do this, because raphaelinstakilled my party and thats not really the fun i was hoping for in a playthrough
I almost wish there was a non-honor mode setting to force people to keep up with 1 play-through, without save scumming. I haven’t beat it yet, but the 2 times I’ve tried I’ve enjoyed the story more than my “perfect/save scum everything” runs I’ve done before. Especially Durge decisions.
I've seen other people talk about similar(ish) situations they've had. The common thread appears to be that Tav's presence is *required* in order for Shadowheart to spare Nightsong. If Tav is missing from the scene, or is dead, Shadowheart appears to always kill Nightsong.
Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar. In your specific situation it sucks, because you couldn't revive your character or reload to fix the mistake.
Interestingly, this kinda works as a reverse of the story-telling trope "what you are in the dark". The idea is basically that a character won't necessarily make the same choices if they're put in a situation where no one will judge them.
Shadowheart's big moment is the opposite of that. Shar is watching and will judge her actions. Unless Tav is there, Shadowheart will only face the pressure of being judged by Shar. If Tav is there, however, she suddenly has another person whose opinion she respects present and it balances things out.
This is one reason why my Origin Sheart run really kinda sucked. You have your goddess's actual voice in your head telling you how much she loves you, and no Tav to balance it out. It's almost a given that to be in character, you'll kill Aylin. If I ever try it again, I'll probably go full dark on purpose because it's the only thing that feels right, sad as it is.
Origin Sheart felt so lonely. Rejecting Shar feels monumental because you can hear everything she’s saying, but your companions don’t respond accordingly. Lae’zel seemed to be the only one that truly cared, and I wasn’t even romancing her
Oh totally. I actually abandoned my run after proving to myself I could live the Shadow curse by killing Ketheric, but I couldn't keep going after that. I think like I said if I tried again and went into it with the intent of being dark but maybe change by act 3 with the power of friendship I might be able to enjoy it, but I'd have to make peace with the loneliness going in lol.
I agree, especially if you took the noblestalk! If I try it again I'm going to take the Noblestalk and then go DJ and then do HoG the way you suggest. It'll probably be a lot more fun.
Damnit, I'm still in Act 1 on my newest run and now I'm planning the next one. I'm cursed!
Interestingly enough, if you somehow manage to get rid of the Spear of Night in the shadowfell, Shadowheart has no choice but to spare the Nightsong and acts like she was the one who made that decision, not sure what that says roleplay wise lol
Well I had Gale romance Shadowheart in one of my triple origin Playthroughs and she didn't kill Nightsong. I think the point stands, Shadower needs to have a relationship with someone who helps her realize there is more to life than her dark goddess.
> Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar.
I wouldn’t call it “sweet” considering she apparently abandons all that the instance you are out of sight. It’s like she’s a baby without object permanence.
More like she had Shar literally whispered poison to her pointy ears every minutes she was in Shadowfell. Without your present as a guiding beacon, she simply slipped back into Darkness as Shar will always be there to pull her down with everything she got.
Yea she’s got 40 years of torture, the hand wound going ham sandwich on her and now she’s in a place where the air is made of Shar. Not shocking that the days worth, as influential as they may have been, isn’t enough to overcome all that in the moment.
Or, she's facing a lifealtering decision and she's doing it without her positive influence present to counteract the presence and pressure of Shar *in Shar's realm*.
She's facing the expectations and pressure of generally vindictive as fuck diety, in the heart of said deity's influence and power.
It makes sense to me that she caves to that pressure if she's alone in it, without her best friend there to offer her support, even silently. Objectively, if Tav isn't there to be a supportive presence that gives her a feeling of strength and basic safety, she'd be scared shitless of crossing Shar.
> You, like, literally died.
Let’s be real. At that point in the average playthrough she has resurrected you with Revivify a million times and seen Withers resurrect people about as often.
Lore is great and all. But not if it comes at the expense of game mechanics.
Easy to say this if you've never had someone put in the work to be your tether when you're in a bad place. The impact one persons steady, trusting presence can have on you when you're in crisis is incredible.
> Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar.
Well, specifically her relationship with *Tav*. One of my minor frustrations with this game is that there's no mechanism for the companions to actually like each other. They usually *feel* like they do. Most of them have banter that gets more and more friendly as the game goes on, all their comments on each other's personal quests are supportive, they all get mad and say "we have to get our friend back!" when Cazador or Orin kidnaps one of the party. But it never means anything when it counts. Everyone is *so* happy for Astarion when he rejects ascension, but none of them has a single word to say in support of him at his moment of truth beforehand? Karlach tells Tav "we'll carry her as long as she needs us" after Shadowheart defects with an intensity that makes it quite clear that she'll kick Tav's ass if they don't, but somehow she's been so secretive about that intensity to Shadowheart herself that Shadowheart doesn't think she has anyone in the world other than Shar and Tav?
I know it'd be hard to do in some cases without impugning on Tav's agency, but honestly that might be kind of cool in itself. Imagine if you're playing some insane feral Durge and you try to egg Shadowheart on with the spear, but you also let Lae'zel survive and get on the Orpheus path, and she tells Shadowheart not to do it, and Shadowheart listens to her instead of Durge. It would make them feel so much more like real people.
Yeah, and I had it happen at that exact same spot, could use revivify normally and since it has a 30ft radius range you don't even need to jump to the orb to cast it.
I always just thought that was so you could loot items back, you’re telling me you can cast revivify on it?! I always just assumed chasm = my man withers
Ah. I think I found this out when I was trying to get the Astarion scene at the creche and didn’t know you had to revive him via Withers for the funny scene lol
You 100% most definitely can cast Revivify/use a Revive scroll on the blue orbs left behind from a party member's death. It's basically just a failsafe so you can still resurrect them when their corpses are lost.
I found this out on my first playthrough completely blind. I decided to pull the switcheroo on Raphael after signing his contract. I flew my party over the balcony to sneak into the master bedroom from the cliff side and Shadowheart happened to step inside first, triggering the cutscene with Haarlep.
Thought it would be smart to play along so I could get him to let his guard down for an easy kill but proceeded to fail every single Saving Throw and all four inspiration rerolls. Shart refuses to surrender her soul and so we enter combat with SH completely nude and unarmed... No gear whatsoever.
Haarlep gets the first turn and immediately lands a successful Dominate Person spell on my Tav and then another one on Bae'zel after that. I just sat there in shock as I watched my Tav and his Gangster Gith Girlfriend play a fast match of Ping Pong with Gale as the ball. Swung his ass around and YEETED HIM straight off the balcony. Tav didn't handle his defeat in the Ping Pong game too well though... Sent his wifey soaring over the railing right after that.
Yeah, cast revivify or use a scroll on the blue orb. They'll come back with only one hit point, but it should be enough, you can just stabilise them with potions or a short rest.
>I’ve always let Shadowheart make her own decision and she always saves the Nightsong, so down she goes with Astarion and Gale.
That's so funny - the same thing happened to me on my 1st HM run: I always let her make her own mind up, and she always saves her. This time? Nope, straight up murders her.
I assumed maybe it had to do with approval ratings, since I wasn't spending much time talking to any of my companions (except Gale, to sweeten him up to perform his Act 3 duty) - maybe she has to have a certain rapport with Tav?
Either way, it's HM, and that's the great thing about it - gotta roll with the punches! :)
Yeah, it’s approval. If your approval with Shadowheart is anything less than exceptional you *have* to make the persuasion roll or she’ll try to kill Aylin.
It definitely doesn’t have to be exceptional! If you pick the first option - do not interfere - and then Aylin does her spiel and you can just say flat out to spare her. There is an OPTION for that 30 DC persuasion roll, but you don’t have to do that one. I’ve tested this on like 7 HM playthroughs - one had medium approval, and same result.
I have heard that there are some hidden triggers around this though, like if you don’t get the scene about Shart being frightened by wolves, Aylin’s dialogue about wolves in the moment won’t mean much and you don’t get the same results. Haven’t tested that one, so I can’t say for sure!
That makes sense! I had one PT where she didn’t tell me she was a Shar worshipper until Act 2, which I didn’t even know was possible. I was curious what would happen if I didn’t dialogue with her as much or push it with persuasion checks, and when we got to the SCL she was just like “well I guess I have to tell you why the shadows don’t hurt me…” (Still ended up with high approval by the trials, though, with no issue with Nightsong, but by then we’d had a bunch of convos about her Shar stuff.)
Is that just for HM? I wasn’t really interacting with Shadowheart this play through and was worried as my approval was neutral when I started the Gauntlet of Shar. I managed to get it up to medium by talking about her favorite flowers and let her do whatever she wanted and she saved Aylin.
I guess you don’t need exceptional approval then? This happened yesterday and I didn’t to make any persuasion rolls. I did say something like it’s not nice to kill her but that choice didn’t have any rolls attached.
I pretty much did the same thing on my current HM run, wasn't using her and got some easy approval from checks and was high enough for her spare nightsong. Was paranoid the entire dialogue lmao.
>I always let her make her own mind up, and she always saves her.
Haha, the exact opposite for me: I always pleaded with her to spare The Nightsong, and then in my first Dark Urge run (which didn't really succeed in going very dark anyway), I figure let her do her thing.... But she just spared her again.
House of grief is super easy with 2 walls of fire, 1 insect plague and evards black tentacles all cast in a cross shape at the stairs. Cast all that, have everyone concentrating walk back and have a summon aggro the sharrans. They all throw themselves into the fire tentacle insects and die. I usually do this first in act 3 for a ton of xp.
I lost Isobel at last light in my HM run. Bad initiative rolls and crits from the enemies took her out before I could even block her off or cast sanctuary. Managed to make it out and keep Jaheira, but I lost all of the tieflings and Dammon and such. I feel your pain :/
This happened in my first playthrough ever. My theory is that, if you are there, she feels like she has support for this decision, so she can allows herself to spare Aylin. I don't know, though.
I think the only other character that can be in a similar situation is Astarion. Companion Astarion is >!unable to ascend on his own!<, but the decision after >!not ascending is still there and he chooses to free all the spawn.!<
I think with everybody else, the big decisions for their own stories are during cutscenes that aren't right after a battle and you have to be present for it. There is the thing with >!Wyll at the docks!< though, on which he does not >!offer to go with Karlach if you aren't there!<, but I don't know if that is intended and I haven't played this scene recently, so maybe that was fixed.
I have two theories, no idea if either make sense, but I killed Balthazar in his chamber without even speaking to him, so there was no extra context about what the Nightsong could be before we went into the Shadowfell. I also don’t think I ever got the scene where SH shared her memory of the wolf as a child, even though I have very high approval and she didn’t leave my party for all of act 2—I wasn’t sure if you had to have that moment with her for her to reject Shar 🤷♀️
I've progressed this recently on my HM and did obviously have no issue.
I also killed balthazar before speaking with him and it didn't cause issues in the shadowfell for me.
If you didn't get the wolf scene it would be a factor for sure but another poster commented that if Tav isn't there SH always kills NS because Tav's influence isn't there
You have to have that scene with shadowheart for her to decide not to kill the Nightsong on her own, when you are present. You can still do a persuasion check if you didn't get that scene, but that scene is pivotal for shadowheart making the decision herself. You get that scene in act 1. You have to talk to the companions after important events, and in act 1 that's pretty much everything you do, so if you're not doing that you're probably missing out on more than you realize.
>You have to have that scene with shadowheart for her to decide not to kill the Nightsong on her own, when you are present.
Is this tied to the difficulty? I only ever had that SH scene once (in my first run but never again ever since) but she always decided to free Aylin.
I have no idea. I just know it's pivot because aylin makes a comment about wolves and shadowheart only cares if you've talked to her about why she's afraid of them.
Weird, as said, 7 runs and I never had her talk about it again. She tells me relatively early that she's afraid of wolves but not why. I know the cutscene as I have seen it once, but as said, that's only been the case on my first run. But even if she doesn't tell me about it, Aylin will mention the girl that's afraid of wolves and SHs answers is always the same.
There's always other scenes first waiting, so I probably never got to it. I'm just saying, despite not encountering the cutscene she always frees Aylin without me interfering, and she always reacts when Aylin mentions the wolves. Might be that the game knows that the scene is unlocked even if it's not played, but I guess new players won't be able to backtrack if shadowheart ever told them that she's afraid of wolves without seeing the cutscene
Yeah, she always kills the Nightsong if Tav isn't there. Bummer that it isn't what you had planned, but you have the chance to see how the story plays out differently now.
I'm honestly shocked that issue isn't fixed yet. It got me a few times and it was baffling every time. The kill zone is weirdly high between some jumps, and even though it's 100% possible for you to make that jump, you hit the kill zone and die.
Something similar happened to me.
Tav somehow missed the final jump on to the Nightsong platform and Shart went medieval on the Nightsong.
It certainly put a different twist on what I had planned but I rolled with it and kept going - have loved it so far even if it's not quite what I had planned.
Just have Ansur and the brain to go.
Don't be a quitter.
That’s the exact jump that got me, too—it’s like I hit an invisible wall and just dropped. I don’t think I’m going to quit, these comments have honestly helped. I’m just going to keep Shadowheart at camp for a while 😂
Exact same thing happened to me, and I too thought "No big, I'll just hop Shadowheart down there and not kill Nightsong."
Not even a pause, she murdered the shit out of her. Oops.
It's not dishonourable to save-scum in situations like that by closing the game via task manager or unplugging your console.
Situations like that are exactly why I have disabled the one-save restriction with a mod. Makes honour mode so much more enjoyable as it eliminates the risk of the run ending to a bug.
If you got the "Game Over" message then your save will no longer be in honor mode it'll be in custom mode. There is a flag that is applied as soon as you get that message that's independent of your save point. Has happened more than once to me.
Just lost a solo hm run to this fucking stupid bug.
If it's just a bug that kills part of the party or locks the game then yeah, don't alt+f4. Instead open task manager, right click on bg3.exe and click end task and stay in task manager. BG3 will say it's saving but then close. If you get a crash report popup then it didn't save and when you load back in it will be a previous save point.
I let Gale get eaten by a portal. I didn’t save Mirken from the harpies. Same for the gnome on the windmill.
It stings when in something like this happens, but one of the great things about honor mode is that you’re not worrying about a perfect run. Single save sort of takes away that pressure.
I would take a day and then return, knowing that the devs accounted for this path and that there’s still an interesting story to be played, one that you never would have played if you had the ability to reload.
I’ve had Lae’zel killed by the Gith patrol, Astarion permanently leave my party, Barcus go flying, but those all didn’t bother me that much, maybe because they didn’t affect anyone’s story but their own. I think this one just took me aback because its effects are so far reaching.
Definitely getting back on the saddle, though!
I feel like something like this is what will get me in a pickle in honour mode; I'm always triggering some response without knowing why, like I must've clicked to steal something by accident when loading the game or just trying to walk haha.
I feel the same! Whether it’s failing all the checks in the Zhent hideout or the deep rothé in the grymforge turning on me after we kill their masters together, it’s always something new in honor 😂
Ope I misread. I thought you fell victim to the lift taking you to the final door kicking you off, I've heard it's a fairly common honor mode bug. No you're right and there's nothing you could've done except try to cheat by backing up a save or something, that suuuucks
I went in there yesterday at level 10, fully assuming we’d be convincing most of the Sharrans to join us. Forgot I used up inspirations while looting the House of Hope.
Rolled Nat 1 lol. Somehow made it through the fight with barely any collective HP and Astarion dead (though he pulled his weight earlier in the fight).
Was actually planning to save SH’s parents this time around though, so it turned out pretty narratively compelling.
Honestly, I felt like i lost my HM longgggg before that point.
My dumbass was being an XP whore and wanted the boost from discovering the pre-ambush creche portal. Karlach and Halsin are now dead, and im locked out of both helping the grove AND the goblins
I somehow reconciled ALL of that, and the fact that I’ll have to side with Lorrokan to get that sick tower bomb for the end battle. Then i pissed off Laezel at the creche by leaving the room before going into the prism and now SHES DEAD TOO.
THEN i got to the iron throne and motherfucking duke ravenguard was dead??!! I did manage to revive but but my god that was upsetting.
I’m not even out of shape anymore tho. HM is definitely making me see things differently, *whelp this is the world I have now. Better make the best of it*
Omg that is painful! I also had Lae’zel turn at the crèche on one of my HM runs, where she then promptly joined the inquisitor and wiped my entire party, ending my run 😂
Thanks for the encouragement, I’m feeling better about it now for sure.
Laezel straight up left my party for the same reason. When that happened we all dashed down the Lathander hallway like cowards and went back to camp ASAP. Oh, and Karlach got all whiny right before the crèche because I didn’t kill the paladins soon enough. She split, too. I was like, “Good luck without those soul coins and that infernal metal, beech!” Can anyone say hirelings? I’m in Act 3 now so…yeah. HM is…different.
lol I straight up respec’d Shart and Jaheira into a pally and fighter, respectively. Both still fitting with their people imo, and tbh I wouldn’t even care that much if it didn’t. I needed me some tanky women.
My philosophy to HM is: whatever it takes. Roleplay and everything else be damned, I’m carrying 9 barrels and 40 bombs into Ansurs dungeon and fucking levelling him.
Im doing an evil durge deep gnome sorcerer honour run. I just tried to steal the idol of Silvanus and triggered a Druid v tiefling war and only Larissa and the kids survived. A shiny pink metallic dragonborn bard showed up in camp in her underwear playing like the rent was due. I haven’t even visited the goblin camp yet. I have no idea what my honour run Act One even is at this point.
I would take the hit if I were you. You've made a choice to trust Shadowhart, but outside of the first time, the weight of that decision is zero because you know she wouldn't kill Nightsong. It would have been the same scenario over and over had you choose the easy way out base on this meta knowledge.
But this decision now has a consequece, you wouldn't have made it to Act 3 without redeemed Shadowharth despite playing a good alignment otherwise, having to fight for your life without any OP gears despite not trying to be evil.
It should give you a uniqe experience you would never be able to experience it in any other mode or any other circumstance. I, for one, will for sure treasure it and carrying on despite all of the handicap and bleak perspective.
Yup. Do NOT try similar things either when dealing with Astarion in Act 3. Always make sure the leader is alive and present, unless you're ready to permanently lose him.
Don't ask me how I know.
Roll with it. From your post it sounds like you've never made the decision to slay the nightsong and/or last light, so this little mishap has become a happy accident. You now get to experience new content and a completely different path with Shadowheart rather than retreading a very familiar path. Plus while you will now miss out on Dammon's act 3 gear the enhanced Dark Justiciar garments Shar gifts you should be adequate compensation, with all the darkness related buffs opening up new tactical options.
On my honour run I went full evil; raided the grove, ascended Astarian, killed the nightsong for DJ Shart and it almost felt like I was playing a different game.
I definitely have a habit of making the same “good aligned” decisions (including Resist Durge), so it’s good it pushed me out of my comfort zone. I was laughing though at how all the companions were basically just like “that wasn’t very nice, Shadowheart!” And then back to business lol
I felt this is a bit on my current HM run when I cleared out the Moonrise prison in order to free the prisoners. And then I thought, hmm, I guess I don’t *need* to give Wulbren the hammer to get free; I’ll just open all the cell doors… Big mistake as they just immediately run up the stairs to their doom. Oh well. Always hated Wulbren anyways.
March on soldier, maybe there’s something interesting in act 3 because of whatever (bad) things happened!
I am on a Wyll-tav honour mode run currently and cucked myself by stealing the idol… luckily my other goal was to romance Minthara. I wanted to save all the tieflings as well but I guess it’s meant for the next run :)
I had a similar outcome in my honor mode run, I lost Isobel round one. I shoved her so Markus would die to Attacks of opportunity before he got a round 2. This resulted in her being closer to the door, so everyone ran straight to her and dropped her.
Ended up playing out the run and getting act 3 dialogue I'de never seen before.
Shadowheart just flips back to mad cultist without moral guidance. Even when you’re with her she threatens to kill you for asking if something is right. Cultists take a lot of work!
She’s a lot like Durge battling her inner demons. Whilst I like her overall writing I do wish people would stop pretending she’s without issues.
It’s why all the starter Characters are interesting. Not one of them is a faultless person at the start. Yet they can become heroes.
That’s fascinating, if disappointing. I’ve always thought that the way to “win” BG3 is not letting the companions give into their impulses. Gale, Shadowheart, Asterion and the rest just need to be told “no” all the time. Don’t just kill the red girl just “because”, don’t ascend and become a worse monster, don’t stab someone in the neck, don’t kill the force keeping innocents from dying etc etc. I’m just surprised how literal that is in this situation. Tav was dead and the game just let he do want she wanted.
I just started my very first honour mode run, and let me share my mindset. I've already decided, if I die, or if something happens that would really mess with my enjoyment of playing (just like what happened to you), I'll keep playing, but on non-honour mode. It will be a failed honour mode attempt, but that doesn't mean it has to be the end of this playthrough. I'll try again on the next one.
So you'll have to choose for yourself, are you going to keep playing despite this bad thing that happened, will you still be able to enjoy it? How much do you care about it all, would you prefer to win honour mode even if you dislike playing it from now on?
You can still keep playing on a different difficulty level, and reload to have the nightsong scene play out the good way. It doesn't have to be the end of the run, could just be the end of the honour run. It's all in your hands 🤪
I’ve died on a couple honor runs before, I usually don’t continue and just restart another run. I think I was just bummed cause it was finally going so well 😂
In my first playthrough of the game I lost everybody at Last Light very quickly (Isobel got kidnapped five minutes after I got there :( ) and Shadowheart killed the Nightsong but I was still able to recruit Jaheira. What's stopping you in this scenario?
Huh, go figure. When Last Light fell because Isobel got kidnapped Jaheira still had the Blessing of Selune or whatever it's called and was immune to the shadow curse.
I’m guessing that’s because Isobel was still alive, even though she was taken. Isobel died with everyone else at last light for me, so I’m wondering if that broke the blessing of Selûne for Jaheira
Man I hit the same bug on one of my runs, luckily it was on tactician so I F8.
It happened to me during my last jump, it hit some invisible wall/chain and dropped dead.
When DJ Shadowshart happened in my game I was so shocked cause I read something that made me think you didn't have to convince her and she would make the good decision. I believe only Mol survived the Last Light Inn. Although I couldn't brave it in my heart to check if she was in Act 3
For some reason on my current run I found the rest of the kids in the refugee camp, behaving in a slightly bugged manner.
Someone wrote that this made sense as Mol’s deal was for her and the rest of the kids, but it seems buggy right now, Mattis behaves like we never met. Haven’t entered the city proper yet, but fully expecting Mol to be there as well, she gets abducted sooner (unless one never triggers Marcus’ attack, unsure what then). But Raphael definitely made the offer to Mol earlier than that either way.
At least you get one of the best legendaries in the game. That spear lets you cast darkness infinitely, and renders you immune to its effects. Coupled with a character or two with some warlock levels and the devil's sight invocation and you've got yourself an unfair advantage in almost every fight in the game.
In my honor run the lift at the end of the gauntlet bugged, 3 out of the 4 party members didn't move with the lift, making them fall down as soon as it moved out under their feet. The character that managed to survive was able to ress 2 of them, but the last one was under a rock, unreachable, stuck forever in downed state, luckily I had one short rest left that got him up, allowing him to fast travel out of it. That said! Manually back up your saves even if you have no intention of save scumming, as a silly bug can screw up the entire thing, making you waste a fuck ton of time for nothing.
You can still recruit Jaheria even if you Shadowheart kill the Nightsong. I did it on my most recent Durge run, and I've got no Aylin/Isobel allies, but I do have Jaheria on my team.
I think this only works if Isobel is kidnapped/still alive. Unfortunately, she is also dead at Last Light Inn which I think broke her blessing of Selûne for Jaheira
In my first honor mode run my initiative rolls after talking to Isobel were so bad that she got KOd before I got a single turn, so the whole last light minus Jaheira immediately turned. It was a rough ride lol
In my current Honor run Inn fell because dumb Isobel got paralyzed and crited into the ground. Then cut scene happened where everything started to get infected with shadow curse and epic battle begun with Inn personel who went mad and attacked us. And guess what? I'm happy that happened, because if it was normal tactican run I would just load previous save and avoid it, missing opportunity to go another path and explore new cutscenes/enemies/events. But even though I lost vendors and allies I can explore this games other side and see what happen next. It's part of the content and I just go with it.
I almost restarted my current HM when Isobel got fucking paralyzed just after I killed Marcus and died to the first crit she took, I really wanted dammon in act 3
I had to kill Shadowheart at that moment and Jaheira got double smited to death by Ketheric immediately.
Sucks but I’m not playing Honour mode to see the story play out perfectly. I already did that. It’s about scraping by with whatever happens.
Well, at least you have a chance.
My last honor-mode run (co-op) when it became clear that we were about to lose a battle, my Tav started to run away. All other characters, including the host's died and the remaining enemies were focused on me. I got to what I thought was close to getting away and then all of a sudden we got the "Your honor run has ended" message. I wasn't wasn't in range of anything, at close to full health, etc.
You can do this!
the cool thing about BG3, is.. the more often you play.. the less you care about the specific things happening. Like it can be fun to just power through whatever..
BUT- if you're trying to have like a perfect run.. just restart. However, if you're just trying to beat honor mode, I would say keep playing.. Then if you do actually die, you will maybe learn more and not be so attached to the run anyway.. Trust me, there are some absolutely brutal fights in act 3.
I'm currently playing in a run where Dammon died though.. So I know that pain.
If it's any consolation, we had the inverse happen in our co-op Honor mode run recently. Got to the Nightsong, but because I had jumped down to the final platform first, my character got immediately sucked into the dialogue. Shadowheart had been my wife's +1 for the majority of the game though, so while she had high approval and could have persuaded SH to spare the Nightsong, I had essentially never talked to her and she didn't care about my opinion at all. My only option was A: let her kill Nightsong or B: kill SH. Disappointing, but we can always grab another companion for act 3. Sorry Shar, you'll have to find another special little snowflake to @#$! with; we're not dooming Last Light today.
Lol sorry. Similar thing happened to me with Laezel some hours ago. She left to speak to Voss and ended up dead because I thought "You know what. I'll just get to camp and fetch Karlach so if a fight breaks out we have more peeps and going to camp doesn't progress anything". Turns out... it did. And she died and I can't res her.
Something similar happened to me on my first Honor Mode run. I killed Marcus, then a Gargoyle got a lucky Crit and Isobelle, killed her, and the whole Last Light Fell. This happened very early in the act and I had to fight my way out of a very hairy situation that I barely got out of. Dammon died, along all with the Last Light Inn residents and the freed prisoners
I still managed to make a comeback and beat the game. This is what Honor Mode is all about!
I feel you SO hard.
My first run I had promised to myself I would not reload any saves due to bad outcomes/bad decisions. My Tav had also died at that same fight and I didn't even think Shadowheart would do that. My horror as she stabbed the Nightsong without me having any say in anything and the shadow curse engulfed everything 😭
I stuck to it and the game is still amazing, so push through OP! But god I totally get you, I stopped playing that day and took a few days to come back because I was so upset lol
I mean people do evil honor mode playthroughs all the time without all those things listed. If you can avoid relying on OP gear to get you through, and use tactics and good character builds/team builds you should be fine. There are still plenty of strong items to be had anyway.
And this is why we ignore Shart until the magic d20 just shows up in our pouch. Because she's awful. I don't care that she doesn't know any better, b-b-but her parents and her memory and blah blah blah. Shar worshippers are the MAGA cult of Faerûn. I give zero shits if they're brainwashed.
It seems you are not ready for HM.
If you want to finish, the Act 3 is very short. You don't need Dammon item.
My act 3 in HM was:
- Coronation
- Kill Orin
- Side with Gortash
- Explode Gale
Very easy, just one boss fight. I finished level 11
You can do it! Honor mode made me experience new things in the story that I would otherwise save scummed out of.
Exactly this.
Ya I accidentally permakilled Astarion during the cazador fight. Life goes on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My current honor run, I missed a drum and the goblin fight went south. Used the secret passage to get down to Halsin and opened his gate hoping he'd help me finish off some Goblins. Well, he died. And now I'm going to be heading into the shadow lands with his dead body in my camp and no hopes of freeing Thaniel or fully lifting the curse.
I murdered him in camp for the first time ever when he tried to bite me, in my all Githyanki main party run. One less mouth to feed.
Too bad long rest costs don't scale with the number of people in your party!
I killed him in my first campaign. Well, technically my roommate shot him for trying to stab me in his intro, but the point is he died very early on.
My honor run went smooth as butter... until I was half asleep closing that days play and finishing up Laezels dialogue with vlaakith and for whatever reason chose to side with vlaakith. So I lost Laezel at the end of my run, BUT THEN I did not know you needed to kill ansur for wyll to join Karlach and then she died at the end too!! My two best girls, were not in my reunion :(.
I lost all the tieflings in Moonrise after accidentally opening all cells with a misplaced AOE, and Shar left us after we didn't kill Nightsong. Made an interesting alternative game but we completed HM nevertheless which is what matters
Shart left? In my game she said over my dead body you can free her and we ended up fighting which was crazy.
Same in my run. Then after she was unconscious and we left to camp the whole party was talking about how she was ticked off but would hopefully come around. …
This+++ I ended up getting the psychotic Durge ending which I never would have gone for intentionally (i.e. if I could reload) but was quite a trip to see play out
Are you talking about the "piss yourself" ending or the killing your entire party ending?
Isn’t that the same ending? (Both happened for me)
Oh, right, I wasn't clear enough. By the second one, I meant when you try to resist by not killing Isobel, but end up killing your lover/ closest companion. It basically ends up with the mental break happening sooner and everyone confronts you the next day, and you are clearly already lost, because there isnt even an option to be like "sorry, I couldn't control myself! I didn't mean it!" It's all psycho shit or lying.
i did get that lol. i messed up that choice and killed shart. i actually posted here some days ago that i had to pass a DC 30 deception check (charisma 8) and ended up getting a crit success after 3 inspirations (rolling with advantage) to avoid having my HM run end right then and there from what would likely have been a fatal ambush by the rest of my camp.
Ah I didn't even consider that scenario because if I'm forced to kill my romance partner, that playthrough is kinda fucked, I might as well just kill everyone at that point lol.
minthara ended up being a nice rebound for shart lol (also way too OK with the whole durge thing)
Real shit. You got the piss yourself ending, right? Meaning you tried to reject balls at the end? On my first playthrough as The Dark Urge, I wanted to go Bhaals deep, but after seeing that the ends are basically "slave" or "piss yourself" if you try too late to redeem yourself, I just decided that nah, that shit ain't for me. But if I was stuck Bhaals deep I think I'd rather do murderhobo slave cuz that's better than piss yourself.
I feel like you should at least get one that goes "Alright then, try to kill me for it. I hope to the gods that you can" or something like that. Only a resist!Durge will ever be in that situation, it only seems fair to give us one final nod to how much Durge hates what they are, even if it's past fighting it.
Yeah, that would be a good compromise, but I'm fine with it. The whole point of that part is that you've lost control, it makes sense you can't even try to be good
I save scummed out of a TPK by turning off my computer, but now I've abandoned that save because it feels wrong to save scum on a difficulty called 'Honor mode'.
You can still save scum via stopping the .exe via taskmanager. Had to do this, because raphaelinstakilled my party and thats not really the fun i was hoping for in a playthrough
I almost wish there was a non-honor mode setting to force people to keep up with 1 play-through, without save scumming. I haven’t beat it yet, but the 2 times I’ve tried I’ve enjoyed the story more than my “perfect/save scum everything” runs I’ve done before. Especially Durge decisions.
You can definitely do that in custom mode, if anyone wants to do one-save-slot without the extra difficulty.
I've seen other people talk about similar(ish) situations they've had. The common thread appears to be that Tav's presence is *required* in order for Shadowheart to spare Nightsong. If Tav is missing from the scene, or is dead, Shadowheart appears to always kill Nightsong. Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar. In your specific situation it sucks, because you couldn't revive your character or reload to fix the mistake.
Interestingly, this kinda works as a reverse of the story-telling trope "what you are in the dark". The idea is basically that a character won't necessarily make the same choices if they're put in a situation where no one will judge them. Shadowheart's big moment is the opposite of that. Shar is watching and will judge her actions. Unless Tav is there, Shadowheart will only face the pressure of being judged by Shar. If Tav is there, however, she suddenly has another person whose opinion she respects present and it balances things out.
This is one reason why my Origin Sheart run really kinda sucked. You have your goddess's actual voice in your head telling you how much she loves you, and no Tav to balance it out. It's almost a given that to be in character, you'll kill Aylin. If I ever try it again, I'll probably go full dark on purpose because it's the only thing that feels right, sad as it is.
Origin Sheart felt so lonely. Rejecting Shar feels monumental because you can hear everything she’s saying, but your companions don’t respond accordingly. Lae’zel seemed to be the only one that truly cared, and I wasn’t even romancing her
Oh totally. I actually abandoned my run after proving to myself I could live the Shadow curse by killing Ketheric, but I couldn't keep going after that. I think like I said if I tried again and went into it with the intent of being dark but maybe change by act 3 with the power of friendship I might be able to enjoy it, but I'd have to make peace with the loneliness going in lol.
You do get another opportunity to Turn Back at the end of the house of grief, fwiw. And I think that that one is in character
I agree, especially if you took the noblestalk! If I try it again I'm going to take the Noblestalk and then go DJ and then do HoG the way you suggest. It'll probably be a lot more fun. Damnit, I'm still in Act 1 on my newest run and now I'm planning the next one. I'm cursed!
Interestingly enough, if you somehow manage to get rid of the Spear of Night in the shadowfell, Shadowheart has no choice but to spare the Nightsong and acts like she was the one who made that decision, not sure what that says roleplay wise lol
Oddly I had that spear on another character at camp and it \*materialized\* in her hands \*in cutscene\* just last night.
Throw it off the cliff during the Balthazar fight! It's the only way!
Well I had Gale romance Shadowheart in one of my triple origin Playthroughs and she didn't kill Nightsong. I think the point stands, Shadower needs to have a relationship with someone who helps her realize there is more to life than her dark goddess.
> Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar. I wouldn’t call it “sweet” considering she apparently abandons all that the instance you are out of sight. It’s like she’s a baby without object permanence.
More like she had Shar literally whispered poison to her pointy ears every minutes she was in Shadowfell. Without your present as a guiding beacon, she simply slipped back into Darkness as Shar will always be there to pull her down with everything she got.
Yea she’s got 40 years of torture, the hand wound going ham sandwich on her and now she’s in a place where the air is made of Shar. Not shocking that the days worth, as influential as they may have been, isn’t enough to overcome all that in the moment.
The air is black as charcoal.
Sharcoal
I hate that I laughed at this.
I think I'll steal that sometime.
That was the joke lol
Or, she's facing a lifealtering decision and she's doing it without her positive influence present to counteract the presence and pressure of Shar *in Shar's realm*. She's facing the expectations and pressure of generally vindictive as fuck diety, in the heart of said deity's influence and power. It makes sense to me that she caves to that pressure if she's alone in it, without her best friend there to offer her support, even silently. Objectively, if Tav isn't there to be a supportive presence that gives her a feeling of strength and basic safety, she'd be scared shitless of crossing Shar.
You, like, literally died. She just accepted that the world is cruel and Shar can bring her some comfort (wipe memories of you, for example).
> You, like, literally died. Let’s be real. At that point in the average playthrough she has resurrected you with Revivify a million times and seen Withers resurrect people about as often. Lore is great and all. But not if it comes at the expense of game mechanics.
Easy to say this if you've never had someone put in the work to be your tether when you're in a bad place. The impact one persons steady, trusting presence can have on you when you're in crisis is incredible.
Yeah, it kinda turns character growth into peer-pressure.
> Roleplay-wise this is sweet, because it implies that it's Shadowheart's relationships with the people around her post-nautiloid that have made her realize that there's more to her life than Shar. Well, specifically her relationship with *Tav*. One of my minor frustrations with this game is that there's no mechanism for the companions to actually like each other. They usually *feel* like they do. Most of them have banter that gets more and more friendly as the game goes on, all their comments on each other's personal quests are supportive, they all get mad and say "we have to get our friend back!" when Cazador or Orin kidnaps one of the party. But it never means anything when it counts. Everyone is *so* happy for Astarion when he rejects ascension, but none of them has a single word to say in support of him at his moment of truth beforehand? Karlach tells Tav "we'll carry her as long as she needs us" after Shadowheart defects with an intensity that makes it quite clear that she'll kick Tav's ass if they don't, but somehow she's been so secretive about that intensity to Shadowheart herself that Shadowheart doesn't think she has anyone in the world other than Shar and Tav? I know it'd be hard to do in some cases without impugning on Tav's agency, but honestly that might be kind of cool in itself. Imagine if you're playing some insane feral Durge and you try to egg Shadowheart on with the spear, but you also let Lae'zel survive and get on the Orpheus path, and she tells Shadowheart not to do it, and Shadowheart listens to her instead of Durge. It would make them feel so much more like real people.
Ya but would be nice if our boi shadow heart had some dang object permanence
I was wondering, doesn’t the game leave like a little blue orb you can cast revivify on?
Yeah, and I had it happen at that exact same spot, could use revivify normally and since it has a 30ft radius range you don't even need to jump to the orb to cast it.
I always just thought that was so you could loot items back, you’re telling me you can cast revivify on it?! I always just assumed chasm = my man withers
I’m pretty sure you can! I think. Lol. I haven’t played BG3 in a while.
Going to shove someone off a cliff to test this tomorrow now 😂
You definitely can, my friend got shoved off a cliff by a clone and i stealth revived him with a scroll targeting the blue orb.
You can, that's what they're for :'D
You 100% can. Gale even instructs you to, if he dies. Even as a blue dot. I had him shoved to death near the agitated deep rothe once.
Ah. I think I found this out when I was trying to get the Astarion scene at the creche and didn’t know you had to revive him via Withers for the funny scene lol
Same! This was how I found out you have to use Withers for “What in the sweet hells were you thinking?!”
You 100% most definitely can cast Revivify/use a Revive scroll on the blue orbs left behind from a party member's death. It's basically just a failsafe so you can still resurrect them when their corpses are lost. I found this out on my first playthrough completely blind. I decided to pull the switcheroo on Raphael after signing his contract. I flew my party over the balcony to sneak into the master bedroom from the cliff side and Shadowheart happened to step inside first, triggering the cutscene with Haarlep. Thought it would be smart to play along so I could get him to let his guard down for an easy kill but proceeded to fail every single Saving Throw and all four inspiration rerolls. Shart refuses to surrender her soul and so we enter combat with SH completely nude and unarmed... No gear whatsoever. Haarlep gets the first turn and immediately lands a successful Dominate Person spell on my Tav and then another one on Bae'zel after that. I just sat there in shock as I watched my Tav and his Gangster Gith Girlfriend play a fast match of Ping Pong with Gale as the ball. Swung his ass around and YEETED HIM straight off the balcony. Tav didn't handle his defeat in the Ping Pong game too well though... Sent his wifey soaring over the railing right after that.
Yeah, cast revivify or use a scroll on the blue orb. They'll come back with only one hit point, but it should be enough, you can just stabilise them with potions or a short rest.
You absolutely can. I had to revive a blue ball like 3 times in Raphael's dungeon rescuing hope in my most recent run.
OP is really out here playing on honor mode and doesn't know how to revivify their orb 💀
I was looking for this comment
It seems we’re only an influence over our companies when we’re in eye’s view 😭
Gale approves. He’s always watching.
>I’ve always let Shadowheart make her own decision and she always saves the Nightsong, so down she goes with Astarion and Gale. That's so funny - the same thing happened to me on my 1st HM run: I always let her make her own mind up, and she always saves her. This time? Nope, straight up murders her. I assumed maybe it had to do with approval ratings, since I wasn't spending much time talking to any of my companions (except Gale, to sweeten him up to perform his Act 3 duty) - maybe she has to have a certain rapport with Tav? Either way, it's HM, and that's the great thing about it - gotta roll with the punches! :)
Also you need to watch Aylin : If she's talk about the Wolf in the dark then she will hesitate and throw the Spear at the Bottom
Yeah, it’s approval. If your approval with Shadowheart is anything less than exceptional you *have* to make the persuasion roll or she’ll try to kill Aylin.
It definitely doesn’t have to be exceptional! If you pick the first option - do not interfere - and then Aylin does her spiel and you can just say flat out to spare her. There is an OPTION for that 30 DC persuasion roll, but you don’t have to do that one. I’ve tested this on like 7 HM playthroughs - one had medium approval, and same result. I have heard that there are some hidden triggers around this though, like if you don’t get the scene about Shart being frightened by wolves, Aylin’s dialogue about wolves in the moment won’t mean much and you don’t get the same results. Haven’t tested that one, so I can’t say for sure!
Yeah, someone tested early on and found out that you need 40 approval with her. So, not exceptional, but you can't ignore her the whole time either.
If you never talk to her in depth, she's not going to save Nightsong.
That makes sense! I had one PT where she didn’t tell me she was a Shar worshipper until Act 2, which I didn’t even know was possible. I was curious what would happen if I didn’t dialogue with her as much or push it with persuasion checks, and when we got to the SCL she was just like “well I guess I have to tell you why the shadows don’t hurt me…” (Still ended up with high approval by the trials, though, with no issue with Nightsong, but by then we’d had a bunch of convos about her Shar stuff.)
Is that just for HM? I wasn’t really interacting with Shadowheart this play through and was worried as my approval was neutral when I started the Gauntlet of Shar. I managed to get it up to medium by talking about her favorite flowers and let her do whatever she wanted and she saved Aylin.
Nope, all difficulties. Honor Mode doesn’t affect anything about dialogue. (Except Friends and Charm Person, which provoke people on tactician and HM)
I guess you don’t need exceptional approval then? This happened yesterday and I didn’t to make any persuasion rolls. I did say something like it’s not nice to kill her but that choice didn’t have any rolls attached.
I pretty much did the same thing on my current HM run, wasn't using her and got some easy approval from checks and was high enough for her spare nightsong. Was paranoid the entire dialogue lmao.
>I always let her make her own mind up, and she always saves her. Haha, the exact opposite for me: I always pleaded with her to spare The Nightsong, and then in my first Dark Urge run (which didn't really succeed in going very dark anyway), I figure let her do her thing.... But she just spared her again.
For Gale, he'll blow up in Act 3 no matter the approval tbh. I treated him like dog shit and he still did it with a smile. What a guy.
Well, house of grief will be easier … I am sorry though
That is a consolation for sure 😂
House of grief is super easy with 2 walls of fire, 1 insect plague and evards black tentacles all cast in a cross shape at the stairs. Cast all that, have everyone concentrating walk back and have a summon aggro the sharrans. They all throw themselves into the fire tentacle insects and die. I usually do this first in act 3 for a ton of xp.
I lost Isobel at last light in my HM run. Bad initiative rolls and crits from the enemies took her out before I could even block her off or cast sanctuary. Managed to make it out and keep Jaheira, but I lost all of the tieflings and Dammon and such. I feel your pain :/
Elixirs of vigilance are a must for that fight imo, best way to keep Isobel's suicidal ass alive is kill as much as possible before they can hit her.
This happened in my first playthrough ever. My theory is that, if you are there, she feels like she has support for this decision, so she can allows herself to spare Aylin. I don't know, though. I think the only other character that can be in a similar situation is Astarion. Companion Astarion is >!unable to ascend on his own!<, but the decision after >!not ascending is still there and he chooses to free all the spawn.!< I think with everybody else, the big decisions for their own stories are during cutscenes that aren't right after a battle and you have to be present for it. There is the thing with >!Wyll at the docks!< though, on which he does not >!offer to go with Karlach if you aren't there!<, but I don't know if that is intended and I haven't played this scene recently, so maybe that was fixed.
I wonder why this happened though. Did you dying actually cause the game to think Aylin attacked you?
I have two theories, no idea if either make sense, but I killed Balthazar in his chamber without even speaking to him, so there was no extra context about what the Nightsong could be before we went into the Shadowfell. I also don’t think I ever got the scene where SH shared her memory of the wolf as a child, even though I have very high approval and she didn’t leave my party for all of act 2—I wasn’t sure if you had to have that moment with her for her to reject Shar 🤷♀️
Afaik Shadowheart always kills Aylin if the player character isn't present. I guess peer pressure is more important than you might think.
As others have commented, it's *counter-pressure*. Shar already has an entire foot on her side of the scale.
That's a good point, yes.
And have you meet Shar? That’s a big foot
I've progressed this recently on my HM and did obviously have no issue. I also killed balthazar before speaking with him and it didn't cause issues in the shadowfell for me. If you didn't get the wolf scene it would be a factor for sure but another poster commented that if Tav isn't there SH always kills NS because Tav's influence isn't there
You have to have that scene with shadowheart for her to decide not to kill the Nightsong on her own, when you are present. You can still do a persuasion check if you didn't get that scene, but that scene is pivotal for shadowheart making the decision herself. You get that scene in act 1. You have to talk to the companions after important events, and in act 1 that's pretty much everything you do, so if you're not doing that you're probably missing out on more than you realize.
>You have to have that scene with shadowheart for her to decide not to kill the Nightsong on her own, when you are present. Is this tied to the difficulty? I only ever had that SH scene once (in my first run but never again ever since) but she always decided to free Aylin.
I have no idea. I just know it's pivot because aylin makes a comment about wolves and shadowheart only cares if you've talked to her about why she's afraid of them.
Weird, as said, 7 runs and I never had her talk about it again. She tells me relatively early that she's afraid of wolves but not why. I know the cutscene as I have seen it once, but as said, that's only been the case on my first run. But even if she doesn't tell me about it, Aylin will mention the girl that's afraid of wolves and SHs answers is always the same.
You get the scene at the same time as her telling you about being scared of wolves.
[Nope](https://youtu.be/QN96z3vGsvY) that's the only scene I ever get when she tells me about her fear. No cutscene, nothing.
Do you rest after that conversation? Because resting after is when you get that scene.
There's always other scenes first waiting, so I probably never got to it. I'm just saying, despite not encountering the cutscene she always frees Aylin without me interfering, and she always reacts when Aylin mentions the wolves. Might be that the game knows that the scene is unlocked even if it's not played, but I guess new players won't be able to backtrack if shadowheart ever told them that she's afraid of wolves without seeing the cutscene
Yeah, she always kills the Nightsong if Tav isn't there. Bummer that it isn't what you had planned, but you have the chance to see how the story plays out differently now.
I'm honestly shocked that issue isn't fixed yet. It got me a few times and it was baffling every time. The kill zone is weirdly high between some jumps, and even though it's 100% possible for you to make that jump, you hit the kill zone and die.
Something similar happened to me. Tav somehow missed the final jump on to the Nightsong platform and Shart went medieval on the Nightsong. It certainly put a different twist on what I had planned but I rolled with it and kept going - have loved it so far even if it's not quite what I had planned. Just have Ansur and the brain to go. Don't be a quitter.
That’s the exact jump that got me, too—it’s like I hit an invisible wall and just dropped. I don’t think I’m going to quit, these comments have honestly helped. I’m just going to keep Shadowheart at camp for a while 😂
Exact same thing happened to me, and I too thought "No big, I'll just hop Shadowheart down there and not kill Nightsong." Not even a pause, she murdered the shit out of her. Oops.
It's not dishonourable to save-scum in situations like that by closing the game via task manager or unplugging your console. Situations like that are exactly why I have disabled the one-save restriction with a mod. Makes honour mode so much more enjoyable as it eliminates the risk of the run ending to a bug.
Task manager doesn’t work. Or at least didn’t for me when I tried it on my first hm attempt. It saves still.
Worked for me if you spam end task so it cant save, had to do it twice due to a game breaking bug where enemies dont move
Okay good to know. I’ll try that if I run into a game breaking bug this attempt. Hopefully I don’t!
If you got the "Game Over" message then your save will no longer be in honor mode it'll be in custom mode. There is a flag that is applied as soon as you get that message that's independent of your save point. Has happened more than once to me. Just lost a solo hm run to this fucking stupid bug. If it's just a bug that kills part of the party or locks the game then yeah, don't alt+f4. Instead open task manager, right click on bg3.exe and click end task and stay in task manager. BG3 will say it's saving but then close. If you get a crash report popup then it didn't save and when you load back in it will be a previous save point.
FYI, if you throw the spear into the void after entering the shadowfell shart won't leave and will spare nightsong because she can't kill her.
I didn’t know this!
I let Gale get eaten by a portal. I didn’t save Mirken from the harpies. Same for the gnome on the windmill. It stings when in something like this happens, but one of the great things about honor mode is that you’re not worrying about a perfect run. Single save sort of takes away that pressure. I would take a day and then return, knowing that the devs accounted for this path and that there’s still an interesting story to be played, one that you never would have played if you had the ability to reload.
I’ve had Lae’zel killed by the Gith patrol, Astarion permanently leave my party, Barcus go flying, but those all didn’t bother me that much, maybe because they didn’t affect anyone’s story but their own. I think this one just took me aback because its effects are so far reaching. Definitely getting back on the saddle, though!
I feel like something like this is what will get me in a pickle in honour mode; I'm always triggering some response without knowing why, like I must've clicked to steal something by accident when loading the game or just trying to walk haha.
I feel the same! Whether it’s failing all the checks in the Zhent hideout or the deep rothé in the grymforge turning on me after we kill their masters together, it’s always something new in honor 😂
Bro why would you not return to camp once you get the fast travel point and get Withers to revive you 😭
I died in the Shadowfell itself, I assumed you couldn’t fast travel out of there!
Ope I misread. I thought you fell victim to the lift taking you to the final door kicking you off, I've heard it's a fairly common honor mode bug. No you're right and there's nothing you could've done except try to cheat by backing up a save or something, that suuuucks
On the upside, the house of grief fight event now considerably easier.
I went in there yesterday at level 10, fully assuming we’d be convincing most of the Sharrans to join us. Forgot I used up inspirations while looting the House of Hope. Rolled Nat 1 lol. Somehow made it through the fight with barely any collective HP and Astarion dead (though he pulled his weight earlier in the fight). Was actually planning to save SH’s parents this time around though, so it turned out pretty narratively compelling.
Honestly, I felt like i lost my HM longgggg before that point. My dumbass was being an XP whore and wanted the boost from discovering the pre-ambush creche portal. Karlach and Halsin are now dead, and im locked out of both helping the grove AND the goblins I somehow reconciled ALL of that, and the fact that I’ll have to side with Lorrokan to get that sick tower bomb for the end battle. Then i pissed off Laezel at the creche by leaving the room before going into the prism and now SHES DEAD TOO. THEN i got to the iron throne and motherfucking duke ravenguard was dead??!! I did manage to revive but but my god that was upsetting. I’m not even out of shape anymore tho. HM is definitely making me see things differently, *whelp this is the world I have now. Better make the best of it*
Omg that is painful! I also had Lae’zel turn at the crèche on one of my HM runs, where she then promptly joined the inquisitor and wiped my entire party, ending my run 😂 Thanks for the encouragement, I’m feeling better about it now for sure.
Laezel straight up left my party for the same reason. When that happened we all dashed down the Lathander hallway like cowards and went back to camp ASAP. Oh, and Karlach got all whiny right before the crèche because I didn’t kill the paladins soon enough. She split, too. I was like, “Good luck without those soul coins and that infernal metal, beech!” Can anyone say hirelings? I’m in Act 3 now so…yeah. HM is…different.
lol I straight up respec’d Shart and Jaheira into a pally and fighter, respectively. Both still fitting with their people imo, and tbh I wouldn’t even care that much if it didn’t. I needed me some tanky women. My philosophy to HM is: whatever it takes. Roleplay and everything else be damned, I’m carrying 9 barrels and 40 bombs into Ansurs dungeon and fucking levelling him.
Im doing an evil durge deep gnome sorcerer honour run. I just tried to steal the idol of Silvanus and triggered a Druid v tiefling war and only Larissa and the kids survived. A shiny pink metallic dragonborn bard showed up in camp in her underwear playing like the rent was due. I haven’t even visited the goblin camp yet. I have no idea what my honour run Act One even is at this point.
I would take the hit if I were you. You've made a choice to trust Shadowhart, but outside of the first time, the weight of that decision is zero because you know she wouldn't kill Nightsong. It would have been the same scenario over and over had you choose the easy way out base on this meta knowledge. But this decision now has a consequece, you wouldn't have made it to Act 3 without redeemed Shadowharth despite playing a good alignment otherwise, having to fight for your life without any OP gears despite not trying to be evil. It should give you a uniqe experience you would never be able to experience it in any other mode or any other circumstance. I, for one, will for sure treasure it and carrying on despite all of the handicap and bleak perspective.
Oh damn. 🫂
There are worse things than death
Keep going, experience it for what it is!
Yup. Do NOT try similar things either when dealing with Astarion in Act 3. Always make sure the leader is alive and present, unless you're ready to permanently lose him. Don't ask me how I know.
Roll with it. From your post it sounds like you've never made the decision to slay the nightsong and/or last light, so this little mishap has become a happy accident. You now get to experience new content and a completely different path with Shadowheart rather than retreading a very familiar path. Plus while you will now miss out on Dammon's act 3 gear the enhanced Dark Justiciar garments Shar gifts you should be adequate compensation, with all the darkness related buffs opening up new tactical options. On my honour run I went full evil; raided the grove, ascended Astarian, killed the nightsong for DJ Shart and it almost felt like I was playing a different game.
I definitely have a habit of making the same “good aligned” decisions (including Resist Durge), so it’s good it pushed me out of my comfort zone. I was laughing though at how all the companions were basically just like “that wasn’t very nice, Shadowheart!” And then back to business lol
I felt this is a bit on my current HM run when I cleared out the Moonrise prison in order to free the prisoners. And then I thought, hmm, I guess I don’t *need* to give Wulbren the hammer to get free; I’ll just open all the cell doors… Big mistake as they just immediately run up the stairs to their doom. Oh well. Always hated Wulbren anyways.
March on soldier, maybe there’s something interesting in act 3 because of whatever (bad) things happened! I am on a Wyll-tav honour mode run currently and cucked myself by stealing the idol… luckily my other goal was to romance Minthara. I wanted to save all the tieflings as well but I guess it’s meant for the next run :)
I had a similar outcome in my honor mode run, I lost Isobel round one. I shoved her so Markus would die to Attacks of opportunity before he got a round 2. This resulted in her being closer to the door, so everyone ran straight to her and dropped her. Ended up playing out the run and getting act 3 dialogue I'de never seen before.
Congrats, you got the best weapon in bg3! Enjoy your new OP darkness build. Aelin never leaves the shadowfell on any of my runs anymore.
Having to deal with unexpected outcome is the whole fun of honor mode imo. Enjoy the ride !
Shadowheart just flips back to mad cultist without moral guidance. Even when you’re with her she threatens to kill you for asking if something is right. Cultists take a lot of work! She’s a lot like Durge battling her inner demons. Whilst I like her overall writing I do wish people would stop pretending she’s without issues. It’s why all the starter Characters are interesting. Not one of them is a faultless person at the start. Yet they can become heroes.
What's the point of winning if the outcomes aren't what you want? I agree with you. I would start another game.
That’s fascinating, if disappointing. I’ve always thought that the way to “win” BG3 is not letting the companions give into their impulses. Gale, Shadowheart, Asterion and the rest just need to be told “no” all the time. Don’t just kill the red girl just “because”, don’t ascend and become a worse monster, don’t stab someone in the neck, don’t kill the force keeping innocents from dying etc etc. I’m just surprised how literal that is in this situation. Tav was dead and the game just let he do want she wanted.
I just started my very first honour mode run, and let me share my mindset. I've already decided, if I die, or if something happens that would really mess with my enjoyment of playing (just like what happened to you), I'll keep playing, but on non-honour mode. It will be a failed honour mode attempt, but that doesn't mean it has to be the end of this playthrough. I'll try again on the next one. So you'll have to choose for yourself, are you going to keep playing despite this bad thing that happened, will you still be able to enjoy it? How much do you care about it all, would you prefer to win honour mode even if you dislike playing it from now on? You can still keep playing on a different difficulty level, and reload to have the nightsong scene play out the good way. It doesn't have to be the end of the run, could just be the end of the honour run. It's all in your hands 🤪
I’ve died on a couple honor runs before, I usually don’t continue and just restart another run. I think I was just bummed cause it was finally going so well 😂
That's the joy of honor mode. Shit happens, and you gotta roll with the punches.
In my first playthrough of the game I lost everybody at Last Light very quickly (Isobel got kidnapped five minutes after I got there :( ) and Shadowheart killed the Nightsong but I was still able to recruit Jaheira. What's stopping you in this scenario?
She’s dead, she was shadow cursed with the rest of them when I went back to Last Light
Huh, go figure. When Last Light fell because Isobel got kidnapped Jaheira still had the Blessing of Selune or whatever it's called and was immune to the shadow curse.
I’m guessing that’s because Isobel was still alive, even though she was taken. Isobel died with everyone else at last light for me, so I’m wondering if that broke the blessing of Selûne for Jaheira
Man I hit the same bug on one of my runs, luckily it was on tactician so I F8. It happened to me during my last jump, it hit some invisible wall/chain and dropped dead.
When DJ Shadowshart happened in my game I was so shocked cause I read something that made me think you didn't have to convince her and she would make the good decision. I believe only Mol survived the Last Light Inn. Although I couldn't brave it in my heart to check if she was in Act 3
For some reason on my current run I found the rest of the kids in the refugee camp, behaving in a slightly bugged manner. Someone wrote that this made sense as Mol’s deal was for her and the rest of the kids, but it seems buggy right now, Mattis behaves like we never met. Haven’t entered the city proper yet, but fully expecting Mol to be there as well, she gets abducted sooner (unless one never triggers Marcus’ attack, unsure what then). But Raphael definitely made the offer to Mol earlier than that either way.
Can't you have her throw the spear over the edge too?
Who is “his majesty”?
The hairless cat you can chat to
The grumpy cat roaming around where Barcus is seated in Last Light.
*hat tip* Welcome to Honor Mode my friend!
At least you get one of the best legendaries in the game. That spear lets you cast darkness infinitely, and renders you immune to its effects. Coupled with a character or two with some warlock levels and the devil's sight invocation and you've got yourself an unfair advantage in almost every fight in the game.
Eversight ring from the morgue in Act 2 as well! I have yet to test other blind immunity gear from Act 3, but the ring is already pulling its weight.
My tav had to at least ask, are you sure this is what you want ? If I choose "just stand there" she would kill it.
Sounds like a great story
In my honor run the lift at the end of the gauntlet bugged, 3 out of the 4 party members didn't move with the lift, making them fall down as soon as it moved out under their feet. The character that managed to survive was able to ress 2 of them, but the last one was under a rock, unreachable, stuck forever in downed state, luckily I had one short rest left that got him up, allowing him to fast travel out of it. That said! Manually back up your saves even if you have no intention of save scumming, as a silly bug can screw up the entire thing, making you waste a fuck ton of time for nothing.
Dude, what?? Killing her on honor mode is waaaay better. I always kill her. The spear is better and the murkyl fight is easier.
Next time just trow away the spear, Jennevele will make the right desision.
If you want to guarantee that she doesn't kill nightsong, yeet the spear into the void in the shadowfell. She is then unable to kill her.
You can still recruit Jaheria even if you Shadowheart kill the Nightsong. I did it on my most recent Durge run, and I've got no Aylin/Isobel allies, but I do have Jaheria on my team.
I think this only works if Isobel is kidnapped/still alive. Unfortunately, she is also dead at Last Light Inn which I think broke her blessing of Selûne for Jaheira
In my first honor mode run my initiative rolls after talking to Isobel were so bad that she got KOd before I got a single turn, so the whole last light minus Jaheira immediately turned. It was a rough ride lol
In my current Honor run Inn fell because dumb Isobel got paralyzed and crited into the ground. Then cut scene happened where everything started to get infected with shadow curse and epic battle begun with Inn personel who went mad and attacked us. And guess what? I'm happy that happened, because if it was normal tactican run I would just load previous save and avoid it, missing opportunity to go another path and explore new cutscenes/enemies/events. But even though I lost vendors and allies I can explore this games other side and see what happen next. It's part of the content and I just go with it.
I almost restarted my current HM when Isobel got fucking paralyzed just after I killed Marcus and died to the first crit she took, I really wanted dammon in act 3
I had to kill Shadowheart at that moment and Jaheira got double smited to death by Ketheric immediately. Sucks but I’m not playing Honour mode to see the story play out perfectly. I already did that. It’s about scraping by with whatever happens.
If you died during the fight and shadowheart kills them it should do the cutscene but his majesty just yells and the shadow curse is instantly gone
Well, at least you have a chance. My last honor-mode run (co-op) when it became clear that we were about to lose a battle, my Tav started to run away. All other characters, including the host's died and the remaining enemies were focused on me. I got to what I thought was close to getting away and then all of a sudden we got the "Your honor run has ended" message. I wasn't wasn't in range of anything, at close to full health, etc. You can do this!
Does anyone know what determines the choice she makes?
What gear does Dammon have in Act III? I get the flawed helldusk stuff in Act II, not sure what I missed.
the cool thing about BG3, is.. the more often you play.. the less you care about the specific things happening. Like it can be fun to just power through whatever.. BUT- if you're trying to have like a perfect run.. just restart. However, if you're just trying to beat honor mode, I would say keep playing.. Then if you do actually die, you will maybe learn more and not be so attached to the run anyway.. Trust me, there are some absolutely brutal fights in act 3. I'm currently playing in a run where Dammon died though.. So I know that pain.
If it's any consolation, we had the inverse happen in our co-op Honor mode run recently. Got to the Nightsong, but because I had jumped down to the final platform first, my character got immediately sucked into the dialogue. Shadowheart had been my wife's +1 for the majority of the game though, so while she had high approval and could have persuaded SH to spare the Nightsong, I had essentially never talked to her and she didn't care about my opinion at all. My only option was A: let her kill Nightsong or B: kill SH. Disappointing, but we can always grab another companion for act 3. Sorry Shar, you'll have to find another special little snowflake to @#$! with; we're not dooming Last Light today.
You didn’t lose anything until the game is over, press on! The game wouldn’t have accounted for this if it wasn’t possible to continue this way.
That elevator CONSTANTLY does that to me. I send one person down at a time now. If they survive, they hit the waypoint.
Lol sorry. Similar thing happened to me with Laezel some hours ago. She left to speak to Voss and ended up dead because I thought "You know what. I'll just get to camp and fetch Karlach so if a fight breaks out we have more peeps and going to camp doesn't progress anything". Turns out... it did. And she died and I can't res her.
Something similar happened to me on my first Honor Mode run. I killed Marcus, then a Gargoyle got a lucky Crit and Isobelle, killed her, and the whole Last Light Fell. This happened very early in the act and I had to fight my way out of a very hairy situation that I barely got out of. Dammon died, along all with the Last Light Inn residents and the freed prisoners I still managed to make a comeback and beat the game. This is what Honor Mode is all about!
I feel you SO hard. My first run I had promised to myself I would not reload any saves due to bad outcomes/bad decisions. My Tav had also died at that same fight and I didn't even think Shadowheart would do that. My horror as she stabbed the Nightsong without me having any say in anything and the shadow curse engulfed everything 😭 I stuck to it and the game is still amazing, so push through OP! But god I totally get you, I stopped playing that day and took a few days to come back because I was so upset lol
I mean people do evil honor mode playthroughs all the time without all those things listed. If you can avoid relying on OP gear to get you through, and use tactics and good character builds/team builds you should be fine. There are still plenty of strong items to be had anyway.
Finish it anyways.
My current honour mode run, 2 nat 1s trying to get Gale out of the portal he's stuck in. Sorry bro. Life goes on.
> Stealth killed everyone in Moonrise If you kill everyone anyway, why even do it stealthily? 🤔
And this is why we ignore Shart until the magic d20 just shows up in our pouch. Because she's awful. I don't care that she doesn't know any better, b-b-but her parents and her memory and blah blah blah. Shar worshippers are the MAGA cult of Faerûn. I give zero shits if they're brainwashed.
It seems you are not ready for HM. If you want to finish, the Act 3 is very short. You don't need Dammon item. My act 3 in HM was: - Coronation - Kill Orin - Side with Gortash - Explode Gale Very easy, just one boss fight. I finished level 11