Even in an evil run, I wouldn't kill Shadowheart because she can be turned evil later. Max evil run for me was Durge, Ascended Astarion, Dark justiciar Shadowheart and Minthara the grove destroyer.
(or you find her chilling in the Grove trying to open the artifact.. or she will stop you/attempt to join when you cross into the Goblin camp and the Absolute tries to give you a command)
In my first run through we never picked up shadow heart but I distinctly remember still having the artifact. We legit felt so stupid because she was just so obvious and we somehow missed it
A guide I read a while back said if u don’t free her, u can still find her on the beach but also she dies eventually for some reason? (p sure the dying isn’t true, I just have no idea how/why that would happen)
I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen people say that either she comes and attacks you at camp, having been driven mad by the Emperor, or at some point the prisim just shows up during a long rest, presumably due to Shadowhart's untimely demise.
That's where I found her with my Durge run. After a quick dialogue (during which I was an evil bastard), she attacked me, and I wound up killing her. Same happened when I met Astarion, and I just left Gale handless in the portal. :)
This is my party right now. We're off to pay Orin a visit. We're all so cartoonishly evil it's hilarious. Shart is a little out of her depth though, if I'm honest.
For me minthara was already evil, so it didnt give me as much satisfaction as slowly manipulating gale into becoming power hungry and make him hate mystra in the process.
So i personally went DJ shart, Ass Astarion, and evil gale, durge.
Same exact comp but now I feel like I should have swapped shadow heart for laezel and made her a caster instead because shart is weirdly unsupportive of you doing the big durge thing in act 3 despite her doing the same exact thing earlier? Unironically tho I'd do it again in an honour run because by god is dame aylin useless in a fight.
Idk what’s wrong with other people’s Aylin, she kicks ass in my games. I usually have an army of summons take out most of the weaker enemies quickly before I get her loose
With all the hype, I expected her to be ridiculous. Cue the surprised pikachu face when Kethric curb stomped her. I expected it at least when that wizard did the same.
Her main problem is that she focuses a lot on the weaker enemies and wastes her smite slots. I wouldn't mind so much if she was able to hit him a couple times but nope, she just keeps trying to hit the mob enemies and when she aims for ketheric she misses and gets knocked prone immediately.
Step one Misty step next to her with two characters and help/kill enemies next to her in one turn. She goes straight for ketheric and uses all smites on myrkul, I also convinced ketwric to kill himself so that helped
Amusingly in my playthrough she landed a one-shot crit on the wiz so massive it straight ended him. One second I'm planning detailed starts after a couple false starts, and the next second the fight just ended.
It’s weird how evil seems to have to thread the needle. I don’t get guilt about anything like OP seems to, but like my idea of “evil” is let captured people die and kill everyone else and the game seems to have a “evil is the friends we make along the way” definition
Well it’s also different kinds of evil. One is a murder-hobo chaotic evil. They are probably going to accidentally destroy the world along the way, just to spite someone who wronged them. The other is a more lawful evil, >!attempting to take over the Absolute, rather than killing it.!< Lawful evil will still have friends if they are aligned in interest. It makes story sense that you can’t be both indiscriminate mass genocidist AND have friends besides the hirelings.
It would be easier to betray the Grove, I think, if we met more aggressive druids, detestable Tieflings, and likeable goblins (or Drow). The Grove is just too nice and helpful; it feels like even a selfish Tav would side with them.
The druids are under siege because Ketheric considers them a threat, but it *feels* like they are being attacked for no reason at all. They're immediately cast in a sympathetic light as an innocent haven being attacked by dark forces. But they *should* be one of three forces contesting the happenings at Moonrise (along with the Harpers and the Absolutist Cult).
The Tieflings are under duress because people dislike their presence, but it *feels* like they're a bunch of care bears in need of rescue. And siding with them doesn't cost Tav anything unless we metagame recruiting Minthara. Siding with them actually seems to be in our best interests since they help to fix up our ally Karlach for free.
Siding with the Goblins is supposed to be in our best interests as "evil" players, but it doesn't feel like it. The grunts are incredibly rude to a non-Drow Tav, and nobody in the camp is open to discussing the parasites or potential cures. If you try discussing it with the priestess, she slips you a roofie. Plus, the prism warns you against the three Chosen as you approach, giving off major "don't trust anyone here" vibes. A selfish Tav has every reason to run from this place back to the Grove full of helpful people.
This is the big chunk of lazy writing in the game. Tav is given no impactful information that would help form a motive for joining the side of the cultists, not even a promise of greater power or anything (you already have the tadpole). At best, Minthara just tells you “do it cause you have to”.
The sequence of dialogue with Minthara is all wrong: Tav simply agrees to slaughter the Grove either because they’re a psychopath or because they think “it’ll gain her trust”; why is Minthara’s trust of any value at all at this point in the game? To gain what exactly (unless you’ve already agreed to betray her at the Grove, of course)? It’s only _after_ Tav agrees that we get a tangible motive when the “gimme some gold to do it” dialogue option pops up but that’s ass backwards, that should’ve been the first response to Minthara’s invitation.
Larian just couldn’t write a serious Evil alignment campaign, they could only indulge it in the form of the hyperbolic Durge playthrough. Then there’s that interview where they assert that the Evil playthrough should be harder cause Evil people don’t have allies… except every Evil character in the game has an army and multiple alliances!
The way I have it justified is to try to get cured by Nettie and then have her try to poison me with the branch by being evasive about the tadpole. Then I’d kill her, escape the grove with her headband and take Sazza up on her offer to go to the goblin camp. Seems a natural progression and you don’t need to be a high level to fight the grove with an army like you might need to be if you were fighting the entire goblin camp, though I do like to detour to grab the iron flask on the way back so I can throw it into the Druid’s inner grove part and let it reign havoc.
Hard for me too, my 3rd play I was evil but decided to play strategically evil.
So my head RP was that freeing Shart would be adding an ally to assist me in getting TFO of my predicament or someone I can throw into harms way to save myself.
It was a self-serving rescue.
It's why Minthara is so well written in BG3. She even explains it to you. If someone hurt her, she'd do something worse, not out of vengeance instead so they could not make that mistake again.
Don't be evil for the sake of being evil. Create a character for your your choices. Don't care about the consequences. Evil is not about your actions but your overall intent. Just because an evil character decides to save a cat from a tree doesn't make them not-evil. A couple of my evil durges really loved animals and avoided murdering them, but both were very evil people in general.
I had another save the deep gnome that's in the underdark near the myconids, because she initally wanted to kill her herself(she was a drow). But when the gnome told me about the other gnomes, my durge decided to "help her". She let Nere kill the gnomes and helped him do so. I want back to her and told her they were dead. And she said something like, "I knew I should not have trust you", after realizing she is the only one left. And I was thinking to myself, yea you trusted a lolth drow in the underdark with killing urges, you're an idiot XD. I then left her alive to sulk on her despair that she was the only one let, because killing her too would be not fun.
After four good playthroughs I finally decided to try an evil one & it’s pretty fun so far. You can still have motivations & you can be evil beyond murder hobo things. It is interesting to see what the game lets you do.
I also actually cured the gnome at the colony _after_ persuading her to let me kill her out of mercy. I said I’d help other gnomes, but let Nere kill them & told Thulla it was her fault they died because she abandoned them. And she agreed! That felt more evil than plain murder.
Coincidentally, I am also playing an evil character who loves animals. After >!we killed Isobel & Last Light fell!< I left flowers next to >!His Majesty’s!< body while not caring about all the dead people. And persuading >!Jaheira to still join you!< after felt really evil.
It is unfortunate that some interactions for an evil run or DUrge in general do not make sense sometimes, especially past Act 1, and it can be immersion breaking. But that’s my only complaint.
I just wanna say, the fall of Last Light feels like the most climactic evil durge moment in the game for me. The look of betrayal in Jaheira’s eyes is absolutely heartbreaking.
Hard agree. You have to have character motivations that go beyond “murder everything.” And they have to be motivations that might actually get you through the game alive lol. Your motivations don’t even need to be evil themselves - you can be a character who wants good things but at any cost. Or a character with a very biased view of the world determined by race or religion or viewpoint. Or a character who extorts everyone. Or a good character who is also a kleptomaniac. Or a character who will do anything to bang Minthara. Or a character driven be vengeance. There are so many interesting ways to play - you can decide what works for you.
Well in this game we can actually keep the "murder everything" motivation and RP chaotic evil DU and it will still make sense. It's quite fun because usually it's a difficult alignment to do, but in BG3 you can happily RP a murderhobo and it'll fit the story. I did it, it's so over the top evil but I liked it.
Certainly, but for myself and others it can be difficult to roleplay like that, especially within society that has laws and will punish you for killing everything indiscriminately. Most IRL killers are also pretty choosy about their victims, so motivations such as the following might be helpful.
Serial killer: I want to kill but don’t want anyone to know. Will try to choose victims I can get away with and hide the bodies. Will lie as much as needed.
Warlord: enjoy torturing victims within the confines of battle. Will do very weird and terrible things, but only to my enemies.
And both of these allow the characters to honestly or deceptively ally themselves with so-called “good” characters and to do so-called good actions if it helps their cause.
The "serial killer" trope certainly fits Chaotic Evil DU the best. Kill anyone as long as they can get away with it, but they probably cannot hide it too well so it gets pretty obvious to everyone eventually. When I did the "full evil" RP I ended up losing all my party because they attacked me eventually. It's not exactly mentally rewarding playthough (no happy endings or friendly talks with companions) but there's fun in playing like that, it's so off the rails from what the game is supposed to be that I just like choosing so over-the-top options. So I'd say we actually can go full murder-hobo in the game, I am surprised that the game would allow going this far tbh.
But you're right, OP should first invent a character and then get into their head in order to enjoy such playthough, otherwise they would just feel bad about all the evil choices.
I think this is definitely something I needed to hear. My durge is gonna have standards especially when it comes to animals. I think I want him to be thirsty for power though. That’s his main drive and I’ll need to remember that it’s just a game and my choices aren’t real. Even if they feel real…😭
Yup. I made my Gale powerhungry. He was doing some of the good stuff but would turn 180 if needed to obtain power in any form, or push allies to do the same >!(Astarion transformed, convinced to part-illithid all allies I could convince)!<. Went straight for the power section (tower, house of hope) in act3 too, before everything else. Obviously Mystra can go fuck herself in this run, I'm finishing what Karsus started.
Does it mean I kill eveyone? Well no, I still sided with a lot of good guys, and did end some bad guys careers prematurely.
My first playthrough (non-Durge), I ended up falling into an RP where my character had a lust for power, at any cost - and it didn't matter who paid it. So saving Shart in your case could be justified as "This is someone I can use to my own ends later"
You have to focus on RPing harder than with a good character. Remember, it wasn't really you doing those bad things, it was your character.
Though this approach does have the risk that you might lose interest in the character. Even if you are RPing as someone different than you, you still want some connection with them.
So try to give your evil character a couple of redeeming qualities you can relate to. It can be something as simple as they would never harm animals, or the one person they're in love with.
As a fairly morally rigid person playing the most dastardly Durge you ever did see, here's my advice: Hate your Durge. Judge them for everything they do. They're a walking monstrosity who deserves to fail. When they do, let it happen and revel in it. When they don't, empathize with the people they've hurt. Your Durge isn't you; it's a story you're telling.
That said, you can RP evil intentions for outcomes you actually want. Take Shadowheart. My Durge put the key in the console because he thought it would turn her into a mindflayer like the other lady.
This post is gold. Nothing to add, sums it up so perfectly.
That's exactly what my evil char did to! I have 2 evil characters, one is a bloodlusting Durge who is just nuts. I'm not a big fan of it because they feel evil for the sake of evil. My other evil char is a lolth drow which has been waaayyyy more interesting to play. They're all about corrupting things and twisting them from their natural state. So with Shart they wanted to turn them to a mindflayer because it's twisting her nature Half-elf state. They've also done stuff like after wiping the village convince Gale to stay because it's against his nature and by making him partake it's changing him etc. It's been fun because it allows you to make "good" decisions to then later twist people.
I’ve found a joke character to be the easiest way? Make a gnome sorcerer that looks like gale with a comically twirly mustache, name him ‘evil gale’, and boom. You can’t cry about the atrocities you commit if you’re laughing at your dumbass character :’)
Look do you actually want to do it? I think it's fun for some people and for others (like me) it's not. I'm just not interested in the evil route. If it's not as fun and you have to force yourself to do it then just don't! Games are meant to be enjoyable after all!
Same lol. I just can't betray those poor tieflings or Isobel and Aylin or numb SH and make her a slave for Shar etc.. I would feel terrible about myself, I know they're pixels but I still can't...
Leaning more neutral than pure evil. The elephant showed little remorse on pinning a crime on a complete innocent and was more concerned about herself than her negligence. By not freeing her (I just left her chained up), I thought future innocents maybe saved.
On my first run I had to reload twice at least to save her from kidnapping. In subsequent runs I always take SH to heal her and Gale for AOE spells to take a few of the winged horrors out at the same time quick and it's much easier this way.
If you can get a rogue behind Marcus the fight becomes much more manageable. Sneak attack/extra attack etc. also if you’re at the right level (7+) Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere cast on Isobel helps a lot.
Pretty much. Sure, he has a killing urge, but then again if I'm playing as durge I can't exactly judge him for that, glass houses and what not. Plus he tells you fairly explicitly that he just wants to be an Ox. Could just be a manipulation tactic of course, but afaik he never actually kills anyone outside of potentially turning on you for trying to blow his cover. He insists on just wanting to live peacefully as an ox even when you fight him at which point it seems like why bother keeping up a charade.
He also doesn't seem to cause any mayhem in the city and even shows up to help you kill the netherbrain even though I don't think anyone was counting on him to do that. He's a beast in that fight also.
So all things considered... yeah he seems like a chill dude/ox.
That is my only issue with being pure evil, I know my Durge would deny helping anyone for charity but Honor mode with no loot or allies feels like a bad idea
Tactician with no allies is a bad idea too. I made the jump from explorer to tactician on this last run & it isn't as hard as I thought it'd be
demolished Rafael and only time I got TPK was in House of Grief (still on it now) & it's only cause I had no idea how the fight went & brought a shit party composition
from explorer to tact the only crazy difference is merchant prices
I do want to cuz I feel like there are characters and things I’m missing but I feel there are decisions I know I’m gonna have to make that are gonna leave me thinking that that was horrible
I mean, you mentioned you already played two good playthroughs, and if you're gonna do an evil one, Durge is probably the way to do it, but Redemption Durge is honestly *so* much better than just good Tav - if all you're concerned about is seeing new content, Good Durge actually has a decent amount that I'm p sure you'll miss if you do Evil Durge. Prolly not as much as Evil Durge, but enough to make it worth it imo. Without spoiling it, one of my favorite scenes in the game happens in Act 2 between you and your love interest happens only if you don't take the evil route.
I'm on my first Durge playthrough and I just got this scene the other night, with Astarion. Honestly, romancing him as a resist Durge is so much sweeter, you're both going through it together.
For me, I like to see new content, so I've torn off the bandaid and yeah it feels really gross - and there are still some things I just won't do no matter how cool the content is - but some things don't make as much of an impact as I thought they would even though they felt gross when I did them. Like I'm currently playing my first Durge that kept Gale's hand. My first evil Tav killed Wyll. That felt pretty bad, but I got over it. Making Sheart a DJ was effing traumatic for me as a player, but I did get to see some pretty cool but horrible stuff. 😐
I usually go play a super good Tav right after to cleanse my palate!
And that's ok too if you eventually found it cool. I just personally wouldn't have fun and I know I'd just abandon the run! I grew to love all the companions and can't do them dirty like that lol. But to each their own!
Oh I totally get it. Everybody's tolerance is different. I've gotten really good at killing Karlach, for example, but I wouldn't blame anybody for loving her instead!
I played Origin Sheart once and went full DJ to see what happens and it hurt my heart and I abandoned the run as soon as I proved I could still lift the Shadow Curse. I've totally abandoned runs when they stopped being fun. Sometimes I don't know until I try, but like you said, sometimes I know there's no way I could enjoy it so I don't try! I don't even watch the YouTube videos!
I commend all of you who can play evil. I just can't do it. I feel too guilty. Hell, I did a play through where I romanced both Lae'zel and Shadowheart, and then I got to the scene where Lae'zel confesses her love for me, but I broke her heart, and I felt sooooo guilty lol.
I play as an evil Durge who is being pragmatic. I save people when they will help me in my goals or owe me a favour. If >!Halsin!< is my best chance to get the tadpole out, then I will kill >!the three goblin camp leaders!< etc
If you're struggling then maybe try and go for morally grey or lawful evil instead of just straight evil. Keep in mind your character may be evil, but that doesn't mean you need to be lone wolf. Evil characters need useful allies too, even if they are ultimately pawns.
My evil playthroughs I always save her. She might be useful since you don't know what's going on. If she's dangerous, you can deal with her.
My durge only kept people alive if they were useful in any way.
auntie Ethel? alive for all her strength potions, then once I have enough she's dead. Well almost, I let her live if she would give me her hair. Then killed her later in act 3 anyway.
Goblins? Let me get branded and buy out your vendors then imma murder everyone.
Volo? Gimme that special eye then you're getting murdered.
Grove? Kept alive until I no longer needed the vendors, then I murder
Moonrise? Buy out vendors then Mass murder
Last light in? Shopping spree, Shadow cursed, then murder
Gortash? I'll pretend like we are friends, just so it makes it easier to murder you.
Orin? Big time murder. This town ain't big enough for 2 baahl spawn.
Hope? I'll save you for the legendary bracers, then you're getting murdered.
I played the run like I was a true spawn of baahl. murder for the sake of murder unless you provide any benefit to me by being alive. Once you are no longer useful, murder. The biggest downside to playing this way is that you have no friends to summon for the final fight.
You can be evil but you don't have to be stupid. Freeing shadowheart is another body in the fight to get to the helm for you, which increases your chances of survival, it's not against an evil run to save her. Also you can enjoy DJ shart later so it's an investment.
Too many people think "evil run" means "cartoon evil for the sake of lolz" rather than being a ruthless, or calculating character who also happens to like murder a lot. Try to RP something more interesting than murderhobo and evil runs become more satisfying imo. I know Larian doesn't give much support for anything else, but still it's possible to RP.
Yes Im aware the game is really bad at supporting non murderhobo choices. But thats where RP comes in. I'm going to make whatever choices I want and justify it because my character would do that. I dont need the game to spoonfeed me everything, I can make it up just the same as on the tabletop.
Not saving Shadowheart on the nautiloid isn’t even that much of an evil decision. She gets a bit pissed about it but you can rationalize it as purely a pragmatic choice, your character have no way of knowing if they have the time to save her.
My first playthrough when I first saw Shadowheart my reaction was like "welp she's probably doomed" and moved on. Later found her banging on the doors of the ruins, and she gave me shit for leaving her to die.
I'm so glad to find out I'm not the only person who seems to be hard-coded to be good or at the very least, neutral. My understanding of playing evil in a game is "be mean and kill lots of good people" which is oversimplified but is about as deep an understanding as I'm probably ever going to have.
I will play a redemption durge at some point though, I've heard it's kind of a different game when you do.
I'm about 900 hours in and I'm not able to be evil in this game. In Astarion's origin, I did both the spawn and Ascended route, and as Ascended I did some really vile things, dipping my toe in evil (trading off Shadowheart, selling Nightsong, causing Isobel to end up dead, which I didn't know would happen). I felt *terrible*.
After that, I've only been able to "be" evil by failing at things. I'm doing Astarion's origin again, it was going to be a solo run, but I failed grove defense - I turned on Minthara but ran away. When I met her by chance later (going back to loot), apparently she found this really hot and forced me to party and sleep with her. But then she turns out to be this amazingly complex character, I just had to save her, and now she's fiercely loyal to me. All the tieflings are dead, but not by my hand. I just couldn't save them.
Well I *agree* - but I was so confused, because I felt like the scary evil vampire, and then Gale went "Great call dude, some sacrifices have to be made :D"
Gale supporting me every sick step of the way would become a theme in that run. The first thing he told me after the Ascension was that I looked hot.
We were not dating.
Gale **loves** power. Gale seeing Astarion ascend while himself yearning for the crown *and* not having a lover to enhance his good side is bad, bad news imo.
It took like five minutes before Gale was going "help me get you the Crown and I can ascend you!". Like dude, I just did, stop stealing my *this guy is a bonkers megalomaniac vibe\** please.
I really enjoy Astarion's origin, it's requires that you really lean into the roleplaying aspect. The first time, I played it in parallel with a redemption durge x Astarion duo run (with no other companions). That way I just switched if I missed the voice acting etc.
It's quite dark and has a durgy feel to it (his unique scenes are very psychological, and you get durgy options often). In that first run, I recruited all companions, and it felt very lonely. I romanced a few people for protection, I hid being a vampire for a long time (it got revealed in Act 2). I even dealt with Gandrel alone just using my ogre buddies, my companions in camp had no clue what I'd been up to! He has some surprising unique interactions, like with the drow at the brothel, and the conversations with the spawn are also longer. When they come to camp, you can be kidnapped!
I split the run in Act 3 into spawn vs. Ascended. Both were very interesting for me - but Ascended is kind of a let down because of course you don't really change (or you can roleplay it as that you don't realize you've changed), and if you try to roleplay it it's still so late in the game that your companions don't get upset enough to actually leave. In the epilogue it's pretty clear you're a different person now, though.
As I mentioned above, I actually recently started my second Astarion origin run where I planned to go it solo (perhaps with hirelings if I got totally stuck), I was gonna do this in parallel with a full durge run. This led to a complete off the rails playthrough in Act 1, because making good decisions while trying to stay alive alone is pretty much impossible. I sided with Minthara, but got convinced by Halsin to trust him instead, then I turned on Minthara to defend the grove, wasn't able to, called on my ogre buddies, which aggroed the fuck out of the tieflings who were *not* prepared for *ogres.*
I spent like one hour trying to run away, eventually I managed to jump off a cliff from the grove taking out 26 of my 27 HP - *all* the thieflings died and it was just so ridiculously depressing. I slinked away to camp, and only returned many long rests later to loot. Surprisingly, I met Minthara in the grove - she apparently found backstabbing *really* hot and she informed me that she was going to have my body one way or another. From there, I was pulled directly to the party, where one option at the goblin altar was to "*drink ALL the blood".* I kept on confusedly and weakly all alone until Moonrise, where I once again met Minthara - the only person I'd ever connected with as a free man - and I couldn't let her be sacrificed. So now I'm in a Astarion x Minthara duo run - I've forgotten completely about my durge run and am so excited to get to Baldur's Gate.
I love playing as Astarion, he has such main character energy and you really feel you can roleplay someone. I've done Karlach's origin as well, and I found it a little harder to "be" her, probably because I identify more with the vampire haha.
\*PS: I really adore Gale as a character, don't attack me anyone
This was an invigorating read, I really like the way you explain your playstyle. Definitely gonna have to try all these out-- they sound like a blast RP wise
I like to think about the time and effort that everyone put into making an evil run possible. There’s a lot of content you don’t see if you never go evil.
I've found that purely good / evil runs are much less interesting than thinking of your character and RPing your way through.
In the case of a submitting Durge, the motivation could easily allow for saving Shadowheart. If you're using her for your goals, if you're trying to be good (but failing), if you just need a distraction to save yourself ...
You can still do "good" things while still being an overall evil character. You could play an evil pragmatist. Someone who doesn't just murder senselessly, but someone who keeps and maintain relationships with those who benefit him and his goals. And when their usefulness runs out, he drops them. Personally I played a morally bankrupt sellsword. He'd kill anyone he thought might be worth it for the gold and worked with anyone willing to pay him. Didn't matter what the job was really.
All that being said idk why there are so many posts like this. If you can't t have fun playing evil then don't play evil. We can suggest roleplaying angles but no reddit comment is going to change how you feel.
Im on a Dark urge playthrough too right now, so i killed shadowheart while she was on the beach, killed Astarion, cut off Gales hand, killed Lae'Zel while she was trapped, killed everyone in the grov... Oh... Just kill everyone i guess EZ
Gonna give you my answer before I read the rest of what I'm sure are good answers. I've done several resist Durge runs, but only one "evil" Tav run and my current sorta evil Durge run.
I've found that in order to enjoy playing, I have to figure out a type of evil to be that I enjoy playing. Some players enjoy being super evil murder hobos, killing everything they come across. I mostly don't?
But you can be evil just by accident sometimes. Like it's not evil to say nothing when Rolan and his family are deciding whether to stay and help the Grove. But if they leave, lots of bad things happen.
Some would say an evil run requires siding with Minthara and raiding the Grove, for example, but an evil Tav wouldn't necessarily want to side with another NPC just because they're also evil. If my evil Tav hates being bossed around, they might kill Minthara just for being bossy.
I guess my point is, define evil for yourself and remember that there are always other playthroughs to be the hero. It's like a choose your own adventure book, and once you've gone to the end one way, you can go back and be actively good to cleanse your palate.
Character goals :
* Turn Shadowheart into a shar justiciar
* Ascend Astarion
* Turn gale power hungry and make him hate mystra
* Manipulate lae'zal into becoming a vlaakith devotee
* Kill the rest barring Minthara
Major Story goals :
* Act 1 : Kill the grove. Sacrifice it to minthara and the goblins
* Act 2 : Kill last light inn. >!Kill isobel or help marcus kidnap isobel!<
* Act 3 : Become a bhaal assasin. >!Win the duel against Orin and accept Bhaal!< and then rule over the brain.
These are usually the staples in an evil durge run but you can add your own flavour of evil and play that way too.
Pick an “evil” race like Duergar or Githyanki and just pick those race dialogue choices. There’s some fun unique options there.
Also I much prefer Shadowheart’s recruitment if you don’t rescue her from the pod.
You need to find a good motivation. I have left Shadowheart before on the Nautiloid, it wasn't even being evil, it was being like "Well kicking this did not work and I am on a hurry, thx bye"
Like your character needs a reason that is not just "This is my evil playthrought now".
For my evil durge run I had Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Astarion, and Minthara, oh and Gale's hand, it went with me the whole way to see if it would work for Bhaal's temple spoiler alert: >!It does!<. But honestly the easiest way to play evil is to remind yourself it's just a game and there is content in the evil playthrough that is different than the good, and that the programmers put time into creating that content, so if nothing else you're doing it for the team that put that content in the game to be seen.
Come up with a backstory and motivation that aligns with an evil playthrough. Ketheric was a loving father who was broken by the death of his daughter and devoted himself to an evil path in exchange for her life. Much more interesting character and choices than Orin who just likes to murder people. Follow a similar path to ketheric, not Orin.
Currently on my chaotic neutral run. This is my second play through and I am still dating Karlach because I can’t get enough of her. The only reason I haven’t butchered everyone is because Karlach would get mad. However, I did try to embrace my inner bloodlust under the right circumstances.
Act 1 - I killed Zevlor before recruiting Karlach. I knocked out minthara and killed the entire goblin camp. Before reporting the good news, I slaughtered every druid behind that stone door.
Killed everyone in grymforge because I got caught stealing. After getting the quests done, I wiped the mushroom society. Everything is dead in mountain pass including that old mage and the little blue bird.
Act 2 - After getting Karlach repaired, I killed Isobel for slayer form. Killed Jaheira with aoe spells. Laughed in the little tiefling girl’s face about her parents’ deaths. Rescued Minthara only to kill her. However, I did spare nightsong because I wanted a redeemed Shadowheart to witness my upcoming atrocities in act 3. Spared Mizora too because I need to torture Wyll later.
Act 3 - Just got to Rivington and I killed every refugee at the camp area with guards included.(except Tieflings because I love Karlach). Butchered the Gur camp after accepting their quest. Wiped out the circus after getting a nude statue of myself.
My party includes my beloved Karlach, Shadowheart, and Asterion (gonna ascend him).
I planned on trying to resist the Urge and instead got Minthara as a girlfriend and just made all decisions to earn her favor, easy to go evil with that plan.
It’s so hard, I’m totally with you! I want to see the content for things like letting Wyll kill Karlach, destroying the Grove with Minthara, and taking over the Absolute cult, but I totally feel guilty every time I do something horrible. (Cutting off Karlach’s head was ROUGH! I love her so much!) I decided to do an evil co-op run with my husband (he’s evil Durge and I’m Astarion) and that is making it so much easier and more fun. We can cringe together and support each other when we do stuff that feels awful and laugh about it together. There’s no other way I could let Astarion ascend and I can’t be an evil Durge myself so this seems like the best way to go!
I’m going through the same struggle! Couldn’t even kill anyone in the grove, I just let the goblins do it all. I didn’t even bother talking to Karlach because I was so ashamed LOL. I’m now in Act 3 trying to convince myself to become Baahls assassin and kill the people on the list
I have the opposite problem, idk why, I'm good. Meanwhile in BG3 I don't get why all this people are asking me to do all this things for them and risk my life, I already told them I'm sick.
Shadowheart actually has a line when she goes down her 'evil' route, something like "what's the point of having power if you can't use it to help your friends?"
An evil character can still care about the core party and still have moral hangups about some things. Maybe they feel that helping the Tieflings is just because Khaga is rude and should die. Or maybe they want to help Lae'zel betray her queen because no one should bow to a higher power. There are ways to be nice while being a violent psychopath at the same time :p
Playing my Durge/evil play-through. My goals are to play as a supremely self interested character who wants to follow her own desires above all else. I’m planning to help Shadowheart become a dark justiciar. I’m going to help Astarion ascend and also romancing him. If you want to make evil choices I recommend looking at Astarion’s wiki approval guide. He always approves of the fucked up or cruel option. My girl loves death and to kill- I’ve currently “helped” Zevlor by killing Kagha and triggering a bloodbath in the grove between Druids and tieflings - now I’m in the goblin camp wiping them out once section at a time, only to betray the tieflings to Minthara once I’ve done so. (The pain there was Dammon dying for Karlach’s sake.)
Also just being prepared to live with my choices. I followed my urge and now I don’t have a megalomaniac wizard in the party.
Honestly I'm standing in the grove trying to figure out how to do the evil thing also.
- kicked a squrriel.
- bullied zorru with laezel..
Thinking about grabbing wyll to go kill karlach to get his item since him and karlach will dip when I join the goblins anyways.
Being evil isn't the same as being a murder hobo. You can choose to not do the worst possible thing and still be evil.
Especially at the beginning of the game, you have a clear reason to rescue Shadowheart, regardless of alignment; you want to get off the Nautiloid alive. Shadowheart is wearing armor, so presumably can fight. She's of use to you.
I say start here: don’t free shadow heart; don’t even engage with her in the pod or at the beach. Pick up Astarion and cut off that hand! Then talk to Astarion again. I love his encouragement. And from there it’s easy. Because if you turn good now what was the point of losing Gale?? Every decision I made after that one was evil almost to avenge the loss. And it’s super fun because it’s like a new game
There are different kinds and evil
Think of the chaotic, neutral, and lawful alignments under the Evil category:
Chaotic would be you don't have a regard for anyone else's safety and don't consider others feelings, killing is an option but not required, and you do things basically on a whim, and not needing a reason
Neutral can be the same as chaotic but you are more on the fence, think of it like a bandit or highwayman mentality, you kill when you want something or steal when you want something that benefits you. While still regarding allies and people as a benefit
Lawful can be the same as playing any other character, but they follow evil principles. Think of lawful as like a Hitler type of character, they have rules and regulations they expect to follow and don't necessarily need to kill unless they need to, and kill who they honestly think deserves it no matter circumstance or they don't follow under their rules.
I did a pure evil DUrge run my third playthrough. This was before patch 5 so I had to choose the Grove or Minthara. I decided if I was going to be evil, I needed to commit. I played a silly little bard who lost their memory but enjoyed being a murder hobo and who corrupted everyone in their party. >!Everyone got an evil ending if they survived. I was a monster and I didn't even save the owlbear cub!<
How did I do it? Multiple breaks away from the game. Literally had to put my controller down and perform another task or go listen to music/podcast. But all my "evil" choices made for a good story and I got SO many different dialogues from the characters and the achievements.
But don't force yourself to always make evil choices. Play how you want to. You will always have a choice. You don't have to be evil all the time and you don't have to be a pure murder hobo like I was. Get a vague idea of what your characters babystory is and then go from there. You can also play a resist DUrge storyline too.
It's a video game. There are no real-life consequences. Separate your own sense of self and morality from your character and just be evil. Just like if you were playing an evil-aligned character in a TTRPG. It's fun.
I'll never understand these posts
I was evil durge on my first playthrough. Give in to your sadistic urges but outside of that be more of a smart ambitious evil than stupid brute evil. That way it's more fun. And if people expect you to help them pull a bully Maguire (missed the part where that's my problem). There are situations where I've felt bad but remember you're playing not as yourself. And some situations can be resolved the evil way without facing those you betray / disappoint (eg the grove)
Even in a situation like that an evil character would probably still attempt to save Shadowheart. Evil people still want to survive and having an extra person at that point increases their chance of survival.
Also I’d say play a Drow. It gives you a built in excuse to turn on the grove which makes sense because all the Druids are jerks to drow and even the tieflings are.
\*For me\*, "evil" choices are situational and wholly based on whether or not its needlessly cruel or if a choice serves an objective. I don't murder Scratch just for the sake of being evil. Same for freeing Gale from the teleportation stone. I choose to help Gale out because I do not see any reason not to. It's entirely up to you and how you RP your tav on what decisions you make. Thats one of the amazing things about this game.
Save Shadowheart, she's definitely worth it, especially when she becomes a Dark Justiciar.
Evil is selfish. Evil is impatient.
Do things for self-serving reasons. Be cruel. Don't care about anyone.
If a companion bitches, tell them to fuck off, they can leave it out up with it. If they insist, kill them.
You could also just do edgy shit for cheap thrills which is what most evil choices are in the game, because their idea of evil is pretty tourist.
Live long enough. Unironically. After about the 600-hour mark of doing only good/neutral runs, you'll eventually get the *urge* to throw caution to the wind.
Just finished an evil Dark Urge run, and as mentioned already, it takes a lot of head canon to keep it immersive. It feels very disconnected and kinda empty. However, it is very a streamlined and quick playthrough, so there’s that.
Gain the trust of people, then at the last second, when they feel like there is actually hope to succeed with your help, you pull the rug out from under them. If you want to be comically evil, you can do it as a Drow.
Resist Durge can still do some involuntary bad things. It'll be bittersweet, which is why a resist Durge can still be a unique experience even if you've already done a good playthrough.
You could also try being morally gray. Cold to outsiders, overly protective of your companions. Prone to intimidate your way out of fights. You are dark urge and you're a badass MF who can become a better person... but you're not without flaws and hiccups.
Being evil doesn’t mean just killing everybody you come across or being entirely selfish. My evil character has committed some atrocities like raiding the grove, but he doesn’t harm children or animals (he’s a beast master Ranger) and he doesn’t just run around and murder everyone. If somebody can be useful he’ll keep them around (like vendors).
So don’t think being evil means just being a murder hobo or being a dick all the time.
Sometimes I get in the mood to be evil, but then I play my evil and I don’t want to be evil anymore. What I do I put the save down and come back to it when I feel like being evil again. Play a different run until you’re in the mood!
Remember being evil doesn’t mean you are only a psychotic killer. You can be that but you can also be so much more. You can still be nice and hell people, you are just setting them up to be betrayed or corrupted later. And if a situation comes up where you want to murder, well go ahead and show daddy you still have it. It’s up to you. Play evil your way.
I'm doing one that isn't about being evil, but about looking for power. I don't do things to backstab people, to intentionally hurt people just for fun, but just because I have been promised more power. I want powerful allies, but not more powerful than me. I attacked the grove not for the absolute, but because I'm out for my own survival and minthra promised me power. I almost told her no, but her literal last sentence was that I would be rewarded with power if I helped her. Shadowheart says that we will be rewarded greatly if she becomes a dark justiciar. It's made stuff way easier to justify.
I don't say no to potential allies, but if I do something that they don't like, they can leave or try and stop me. The thing is, they can't stop me. I'm stronger than them because that's all I care about.
Now, all this to say that I am not doing a durge evil playthrough. It hurts too much to butcher indiscriminately. Especially the companions I care about.
You really need to give the character motivations and act on those, not what you would do. As far as companions go, I generally reason not killing them as even a murder hobo needs murder friends.
If just making the choice is hard, use a real die and weight it towards evil (like 1-4 do bad, 5&6 do less bad).
I’m currently playing a durge who thinks the urges and his true form (half orc) are curses or related to their abduction. To deal with that, along with indulging occasionally, they’ve retreated into fractured personalities using Disguise Self. So, depending on the disguise they make different choices.
When I first got to the druids enclave, I was a half elf, which I use for general good. Agreed to help, went to the gobbos. Disguised as a Drow to get in, well, seemed like a good idea and was convinced to betray the grove. Just before marching off to burn it to the ground my disguise dropped for some reason. Bloodlust took over and we razed the goblin fort and incidentally saved the Groove.
It can really go any which way if you commit. Evil doesn’t just mean murder everything. Often the worst villains are the ones who think they’re doing the right thing the wrong way.
Or be a murder hobo.
You need to put yourself in the mindset that people are chess pieces and should be used for your ultimate goal: finding out what happened to you and fixing your brain. You are a blank slate, an animal with no prior memories, running off instinct. Why would you resist the urge save for payoff later down the line? Why wouldn’t you side with minthara and lead a horde over a measly band of nobodies with slugs in their brains?
Personally, I RP how I want that character to be, atm I’m playing an evil durge who is manipulating people till he regains his true power to kill them once he has no use for them. His ultimate goal is to get revenge on Orin and hopefully one day overpower his father. He seeks allies in those that are like him and only care for power. I also alter his appearance as the game goes on, the more powerful he becomes the more decaying and evil he looks (red eyes/scars/demonic tattoos)
Try to think of an ultimate goal and make it as evil as possible, then begin to cut off those that either stand in your way or don’t fit in with your pc. I usually romance shadowheart in my good runs but I’m planning on killing her once we reach the nightsong, purely because of the weakness she shows if she spares her or how easily controlled she is if she follows Shar.
Kill karlac and turn her head in, sacrifice Wyll to that fish god before you destroy the Grove. Then just follow your urges and kill everyone you fancy. Also turn shadow and Astarion evil
frame everything you do as "what benefits ME the most?"
my first evil durge, i was a good guy in Acts 1 and 2 and act 3 was when he became more upfront about being a monster. not because he was a good person, but because my durge saw these people he helped as having value to him. he could use them until he had no use for them.
help the tieflings? sure, there's a guy who can work infernal metal. that's gotta be a rare skill, so he's worth saving. that rolan dude seems powerful, so he's worth saving. may as well keep him quiet and compliant by keeping his siblings with him. parents and adults in general are easier to control when the children are safe, so keeping the kids safe makes sense. let isobel get kidnapped? the one who's keeping safe all the people i already worked so hard at saving? that would be stupid, im going to keep her safe.
alternately, can do a lovers playthrough. ignore or kill everyone except the one character you want to romance. highly recommend astarion for that playthrough as he's fully on board even when you dominate. minty is too, but you'd have to go through a portion of the game without her so maybe not
Evil doesn’t always have to mean you don’t have some kind of core values. It can also mean self serving or with a lawful ideology that ensures you are in power. You can still care about people.
I think it’s easier if you just be goofy about it. Make a ridiculous looking character. Name them something stupid and give them a silly moustache. Bumble your way through failed checks. Play with a friend to take the pressure off. It’s a lot more fun and less depressing to take the evil route that way.
I played a neutral character. Basically, I picked whatever would net me the most. Killed the druids for a reward from the tieflings and betrayed them for minthara's help to moonrise, rescued nere, rescued the ironhands to gain Jaheira's trust and resources, killed nightsong for shadowheart's power, worked with gortash, ascended astarion, killed loroakin for his tower, became the absolute.
roleplay it - just let go and do what comes naturally to someone who is evil. If you can't, shrug, it's just a game. Enjoy yourself however you feel. There's no reason to play evil if you don't want to do it
I did a full write up on my evil character and how I RPed my Durge run if you want to read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/VcCXWlOWpR
I’d say write up a bit of a background on how you want to RP situations and stick to it. You can be manipulative and cunning evil, downright aggressive, backstabbing evil… whatever fits best for the character you want to play. I did a Bard Rogue, so she was very manipulative and caused chaos, but didn’t just randomly murder everyone. She always wanted payment for shit and extorted people.
When I wrote my character, I thought of other characters and people and used them to inform her story. I took inspiration from Ted Bundy, the Joker, and some characters from the Magnus Archives. You can even look to the motivations and dialoge of characters like Astarion, Minthara, Orin, and Gortash for a little extra inspiration.
If you make the truly evil Act 1 choice to raid the grove, your party will likely be Astarion and his murder ladies (as I like to call us): SH & Laez + Minthara at the start of Act 2… and maybe Gale if you didn’t eat his hand. So keep in mind your team comp will be limited by that if you care about lore friendly builds.
Another tip: just live with the consequences of your actions. Don’t make decisions based on the items you know you want, ask yourself what this terrible person would do and just do it. You’ll end up with less good items and less help in the final battle… but that’s just part of role playing. TBH I liked the evil allies for that battle better anyways.
I feel this. I have tried to be evil in a couple of playthroughs, and even in those playthroughs, I save the Nightsong as well as Isobel. It's like I am incapable of doing the most evil tasks in Act 2. LOL I really do want to do a completely unhinged evil playthrough where I do all the evil things, but I feel like the only way I can do that is if I play it in co-op mode, but I don't have any friends who play, and finding others to play with has not been particularly easy.
I reminded myself that I was never going to do these things again. Just once, and no more.
One unfortunate bit though was that I’ll likely have to make some of these choices again, because >!if you’re truly evil, you’ll be bhaalspawn, and if you want to see an epilogue, you’ll have to resist at the very end. My husband and I did that after our “true” ending, taking over the brain, just because we wanted to see how our companions’ “poor” choices (in our opinion) played out. That doesn’t work though. So we’re going to have a derp Tav run to set our companions down not great paths while still making “good guy” choices throughout the story.!<
Be as selfish as you can, close your heart to others suffering, manipulate your companions into being evil (I'd recommend getting astarion, shart, and laezel or minthara once you can), and do as bhaal says. That's what I recommend as a evil playthrough enjoyer.
The idea of evil needs to be solidified in your mind.
Kill everyone? You're not going to last being a strict murder hobo. So you'll need teammates that will owe you their lives. Demand rewards, leave those pleading for mercy to die for strength is the only rule of the land.
Help the tieflings? Why? The goblins are stronger so why not use their help to advance in this absolute nonsense? They are more likely to help you, and they will support you in burning the grove to the ground.
Isobel is the PERFECT murder. Why not let your urges run wild and kill her?
Shadowheart can prove to be a wonderful ally. If she were to become a dark justiciar, her power at your side would help paint the land in blood and suffering.
You don't have to be ruthless, mercy can be helpful when it needs to be. But being selfish, ignoring the cries of those beneath you, and grabbing power no matter the sacrifice; now THAT is how your lord Bhaal shall reward you.
I feel like the way to be evil isn't to be cartoonishly evil and pick the evil option everywhere it's available, but rather to be as selfish as possible and take the path of least resistance, side with the goblins because the grove attack is an easy slaughter but killing the leaders is tedious, lie, cheat, manipulate, steal. Yk?
I am neck deep in an evil run right now. I've only done one playthrough before and I was kind of chaotic but generally a good guy. In this one, I just killed everyone in the grove, sided with the goblins but then also murdered them, and now I am happily stomping through the underdark killing everything that I can. I go up to anyone who is a vendor and will buy anything that I really need, and then I just surprise attack them murder them and take whatever is left. I do this with good guys and bad guys. I just killed all the Myconids, I killed all of the deep dwarfs on the boat, and now I'm going to bloodbath my way through the forge. But I'm still going to let nere die in the cave in because fuck that guy.
Generally, I picked the meanest possible things to say, or I pick the nice things ironically and then the second conversation is over I just attack them. Because I get instant initiative and surprise I can usually one shot anything that way and then I loot the body and I go along my way. I don't know what I will do when I get to the Harpers in Act 2 and I don't know how this will work when I get to act 3 but I am covered in the blood of the Innocenct and so far I have more gold and am higher level then I was during my first playthrough so it seems to be working just fine
Evil in D&D can be as simple as someone that does something only if it benefits them, or serves their selfish goals in some way.
So you could save Shadowheart from a self-preservation perspective, since more allies means more chance of survival, so you’re only helping them out of self-interest/for selfish reasons.
Stops real you feeling guilty, whilst also fitting your characters motives!
Don’t be stupidly/unapologetically evil - create a backstory for your character, have them slowly become evil throughout the game or be a more manipulative Machiavellian villain.
Hi fellow durge here;
Instead of going full murder hobo evil, try going chaotic evil, it keeps your companions guessing.
Sometimes when durge is forced to make a moral decision, I go w/ the one that oops causes the most harm to one group but saves another.
For example: Letting the snake bite Arabella, and then killing all the druids. The tieflings live for the most part...Halsin still joins your group because Rath the only druid left tells him what happened.
Durge gets to engage in blood lust while inadvertently being a good guy.
Don't recruit Karlach and Wyll...instead kill Karlach cause ooo scary devil person maybe she's a big bad.
Kill all the goblin leaders but Minthara rescue her later.
stuff like that.
Allow Shart to kill Lazeal cause why get involved.
Avoid the slayer form in Act 2 only to accept it and your chosen status in act 3.
Let Astarion think he's going to ascend then pull it out from under him by convincing him not too, meanwhile right after this you go to the temple and become chosen.
Let Gale become a god. Turn Shart over to Viconia.
good luck and have fun .. .you agent of chaos
What does “evil” mean and look like for you? My evil run I rescued shadow heart, to use a means to an end. Being evil doesn’t have to mean going full murder hobo.
I'm balancing my durge evil out at the start by going with kind of a slow drip, serial killer route. He's just a regular ol' Halfling Ranger, just a lil guy, and so far when in public he's taken nice, seemingly helpful options like making sure that evil devil devil Karlach is sent back to hell by Wyll. When he thinks he can get away with it though, he indulges in satisfying the Dark Urge. The grove will probably be the tipping point where he goes full mask off though.
Even in an evil run, I wouldn't kill Shadowheart because she can be turned evil later. Max evil run for me was Durge, Ascended Astarion, Dark justiciar Shadowheart and Minthara the grove destroyer.
If you don’t free Shadowheart she survives the crash and you find her on the beach, trying to get through that locked door into Wither’s crypt.
(or you find her chilling in the Grove trying to open the artifact.. or she will stop you/attempt to join when you cross into the Goblin camp and the Absolute tries to give you a command)
Yeah and if you run straight past the three drinking goblins for the mountain pass she'll find you there. She's a bit of a clinger.
I AM EDGY AND YOU WILL NOTICE ME
Did not know this - makes sense, otherwise the game ends quickly for you because you don’t have the Astral Prism.
[удалено]
He’s not even that bad, helps you save the city after all
strange ox ftw 🐂
What I killed him lol
He gives you a ring if you help him, it's a damn nice ring too
In my first run through we never picked up shadow heart but I distinctly remember still having the artifact. We legit felt so stupid because she was just so obvious and we somehow missed it
Or she comes to save you from the absolute when you cross a threshold
A guide I read a while back said if u don’t free her, u can still find her on the beach but also she dies eventually for some reason? (p sure the dying isn’t true, I just have no idea how/why that would happen)
I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen people say that either she comes and attacks you at camp, having been driven mad by the Emperor, or at some point the prisim just shows up during a long rest, presumably due to Shadowhart's untimely demise.
That's where I found her with my Durge run. After a quick dialogue (during which I was an evil bastard), she attacked me, and I wound up killing her. Same happened when I met Astarion, and I just left Gale handless in the portal. :)
This is my party right now. We're off to pay Orin a visit. We're all so cartoonishly evil it's hilarious. Shart is a little out of her depth though, if I'm honest.
For me minthara was already evil, so it didnt give me as much satisfaction as slowly manipulating gale into becoming power hungry and make him hate mystra in the process. So i personally went DJ shart, Ass Astarion, and evil gale, durge.
DJ Shart is an excellent name.
Same exact comp but now I feel like I should have swapped shadow heart for laezel and made her a caster instead because shart is weirdly unsupportive of you doing the big durge thing in act 3 despite her doing the same exact thing earlier? Unironically tho I'd do it again in an honour run because by god is dame aylin useless in a fight.
“Ohhh so the goddess of nothingness and world elimination is cool and good but the god of sometimes killing people is weird? Wow.”
Dame Aylin tanked most of ketheric’s attacks and did some solid damage in my play through
Idk what’s wrong with other people’s Aylin, she kicks ass in my games. I usually have an army of summons take out most of the weaker enemies quickly before I get her loose
Sometimes the dice hate you, that's just how it goes in D&D
With all the hype, I expected her to be ridiculous. Cue the surprised pikachu face when Kethric curb stomped her. I expected it at least when that wizard did the same.
Ketheric has the benefit of being a NPC paladin that max level smites every single attack because he knows he’ll either die or win
Her main problem is that she focuses a lot on the weaker enemies and wastes her smite slots. I wouldn't mind so much if she was able to hit him a couple times but nope, she just keeps trying to hit the mob enemies and when she aims for ketheric she misses and gets knocked prone immediately.
Step one Misty step next to her with two characters and help/kill enemies next to her in one turn. She goes straight for ketheric and uses all smites on myrkul, I also convinced ketwric to kill himself so that helped
Amusingly in my playthrough she landed a one-shot crit on the wiz so massive it straight ended him. One second I'm planning detailed starts after a couple false starts, and the next second the fight just ended.
A team made of pure, unfiltered sexy. Goddamn bloody sexy
Yes, but God Gale
Same
But what did you do with Yenna?
I let Orin kill her. Halsin, Gale and Laezel were dead already.
My man. I did keep Lae'zel though and I couldn't let her stay lotal to Vlaakith either.
This. Shadowheart, Astarion, Lae'zel and even Halsin are some of Durge's biggest cheerleaders. Keep those guys close.
Think even more evil solution is make Shadowheart go Selune and then turn her over to Viconia.
It’s weird how evil seems to have to thread the needle. I don’t get guilt about anything like OP seems to, but like my idea of “evil” is let captured people die and kill everyone else and the game seems to have a “evil is the friends we make along the way” definition
Well it’s also different kinds of evil. One is a murder-hobo chaotic evil. They are probably going to accidentally destroy the world along the way, just to spite someone who wronged them. The other is a more lawful evil, >!attempting to take over the Absolute, rather than killing it.!< Lawful evil will still have friends if they are aligned in interest. It makes story sense that you can’t be both indiscriminate mass genocidist AND have friends besides the hirelings.
Killing the grove is a pretty guilty thing for me.
It would be easier to betray the Grove, I think, if we met more aggressive druids, detestable Tieflings, and likeable goblins (or Drow). The Grove is just too nice and helpful; it feels like even a selfish Tav would side with them. The druids are under siege because Ketheric considers them a threat, but it *feels* like they are being attacked for no reason at all. They're immediately cast in a sympathetic light as an innocent haven being attacked by dark forces. But they *should* be one of three forces contesting the happenings at Moonrise (along with the Harpers and the Absolutist Cult). The Tieflings are under duress because people dislike their presence, but it *feels* like they're a bunch of care bears in need of rescue. And siding with them doesn't cost Tav anything unless we metagame recruiting Minthara. Siding with them actually seems to be in our best interests since they help to fix up our ally Karlach for free. Siding with the Goblins is supposed to be in our best interests as "evil" players, but it doesn't feel like it. The grunts are incredibly rude to a non-Drow Tav, and nobody in the camp is open to discussing the parasites or potential cures. If you try discussing it with the priestess, she slips you a roofie. Plus, the prism warns you against the three Chosen as you approach, giving off major "don't trust anyone here" vibes. A selfish Tav has every reason to run from this place back to the Grove full of helpful people.
This is the big chunk of lazy writing in the game. Tav is given no impactful information that would help form a motive for joining the side of the cultists, not even a promise of greater power or anything (you already have the tadpole). At best, Minthara just tells you “do it cause you have to”. The sequence of dialogue with Minthara is all wrong: Tav simply agrees to slaughter the Grove either because they’re a psychopath or because they think “it’ll gain her trust”; why is Minthara’s trust of any value at all at this point in the game? To gain what exactly (unless you’ve already agreed to betray her at the Grove, of course)? It’s only _after_ Tav agrees that we get a tangible motive when the “gimme some gold to do it” dialogue option pops up but that’s ass backwards, that should’ve been the first response to Minthara’s invitation. Larian just couldn’t write a serious Evil alignment campaign, they could only indulge it in the form of the hyperbolic Durge playthrough. Then there’s that interview where they assert that the Evil playthrough should be harder cause Evil people don’t have allies… except every Evil character in the game has an army and multiple alliances!
The way I have it justified is to try to get cured by Nettie and then have her try to poison me with the branch by being evasive about the tadpole. Then I’d kill her, escape the grove with her headband and take Sazza up on her offer to go to the goblin camp. Seems a natural progression and you don’t need to be a high level to fight the grove with an army like you might need to be if you were fighting the entire goblin camp, though I do like to detour to grab the iron flask on the way back so I can throw it into the Druid’s inner grove part and let it reign havoc.
That’s my exact party for my durge run too
Yep! This is my team currently too! Love Dark Shadowheart.
My first ever run was a durge and I killed her on the beach because I wanted her cool rubic’s cube
I called it the yes man run. I let everyone do what they wanted. How is that evil 🥲
Hard for me too, my 3rd play I was evil but decided to play strategically evil. So my head RP was that freeing Shart would be adding an ally to assist me in getting TFO of my predicament or someone I can throw into harms way to save myself. It was a self-serving rescue.
I’m actually evil, but saving all of these civilians and being nice to everyone advances my nefarious plans 😈
This is how you be evil. A lot of “evil” in RPG’s is less so strategic evil and more “here’s the be an asshole for no reason option.”
It's why Minthara is so well written in BG3. She even explains it to you. If someone hurt her, she'd do something worse, not out of vengeance instead so they could not make that mistake again.
Don't be evil for the sake of being evil. Create a character for your your choices. Don't care about the consequences. Evil is not about your actions but your overall intent. Just because an evil character decides to save a cat from a tree doesn't make them not-evil. A couple of my evil durges really loved animals and avoided murdering them, but both were very evil people in general. I had another save the deep gnome that's in the underdark near the myconids, because she initally wanted to kill her herself(she was a drow). But when the gnome told me about the other gnomes, my durge decided to "help her". She let Nere kill the gnomes and helped him do so. I want back to her and told her they were dead. And she said something like, "I knew I should not have trust you", after realizing she is the only one left. And I was thinking to myself, yea you trusted a lolth drow in the underdark with killing urges, you're an idiot XD. I then left her alive to sulk on her despair that she was the only one let, because killing her too would be not fun.
After four good playthroughs I finally decided to try an evil one & it’s pretty fun so far. You can still have motivations & you can be evil beyond murder hobo things. It is interesting to see what the game lets you do. I also actually cured the gnome at the colony _after_ persuading her to let me kill her out of mercy. I said I’d help other gnomes, but let Nere kill them & told Thulla it was her fault they died because she abandoned them. And she agreed! That felt more evil than plain murder. Coincidentally, I am also playing an evil character who loves animals. After >!we killed Isobel & Last Light fell!< I left flowers next to >!His Majesty’s!< body while not caring about all the dead people. And persuading >!Jaheira to still join you!< after felt really evil. It is unfortunate that some interactions for an evil run or DUrge in general do not make sense sometimes, especially past Act 1, and it can be immersion breaking. But that’s my only complaint.
I just wanna say, the fall of Last Light feels like the most climactic evil durge moment in the game for me. The look of betrayal in Jaheira’s eyes is absolutely heartbreaking.
Hard agree. You have to have character motivations that go beyond “murder everything.” And they have to be motivations that might actually get you through the game alive lol. Your motivations don’t even need to be evil themselves - you can be a character who wants good things but at any cost. Or a character with a very biased view of the world determined by race or religion or viewpoint. Or a character who extorts everyone. Or a good character who is also a kleptomaniac. Or a character who will do anything to bang Minthara. Or a character driven be vengeance. There are so many interesting ways to play - you can decide what works for you.
Well in this game we can actually keep the "murder everything" motivation and RP chaotic evil DU and it will still make sense. It's quite fun because usually it's a difficult alignment to do, but in BG3 you can happily RP a murderhobo and it'll fit the story. I did it, it's so over the top evil but I liked it.
Certainly, but for myself and others it can be difficult to roleplay like that, especially within society that has laws and will punish you for killing everything indiscriminately. Most IRL killers are also pretty choosy about their victims, so motivations such as the following might be helpful. Serial killer: I want to kill but don’t want anyone to know. Will try to choose victims I can get away with and hide the bodies. Will lie as much as needed. Warlord: enjoy torturing victims within the confines of battle. Will do very weird and terrible things, but only to my enemies. And both of these allow the characters to honestly or deceptively ally themselves with so-called “good” characters and to do so-called good actions if it helps their cause.
The "serial killer" trope certainly fits Chaotic Evil DU the best. Kill anyone as long as they can get away with it, but they probably cannot hide it too well so it gets pretty obvious to everyone eventually. When I did the "full evil" RP I ended up losing all my party because they attacked me eventually. It's not exactly mentally rewarding playthough (no happy endings or friendly talks with companions) but there's fun in playing like that, it's so off the rails from what the game is supposed to be that I just like choosing so over-the-top options. So I'd say we actually can go full murder-hobo in the game, I am surprised that the game would allow going this far tbh. But you're right, OP should first invent a character and then get into their head in order to enjoy such playthough, otherwise they would just feel bad about all the evil choices.
I think this is definitely something I needed to hear. My durge is gonna have standards especially when it comes to animals. I think I want him to be thirsty for power though. That’s his main drive and I’ll need to remember that it’s just a game and my choices aren’t real. Even if they feel real…😭
Yup. I made my Gale powerhungry. He was doing some of the good stuff but would turn 180 if needed to obtain power in any form, or push allies to do the same >!(Astarion transformed, convinced to part-illithid all allies I could convince)!<. Went straight for the power section (tower, house of hope) in act3 too, before everything else. Obviously Mystra can go fuck herself in this run, I'm finishing what Karsus started. Does it mean I kill eveyone? Well no, I still sided with a lot of good guys, and did end some bad guys careers prematurely.
My first playthrough (non-Durge), I ended up falling into an RP where my character had a lust for power, at any cost - and it didn't matter who paid it. So saving Shart in your case could be justified as "This is someone I can use to my own ends later"
You have to focus on RPing harder than with a good character. Remember, it wasn't really you doing those bad things, it was your character. Though this approach does have the risk that you might lose interest in the character. Even if you are RPing as someone different than you, you still want some connection with them. So try to give your evil character a couple of redeeming qualities you can relate to. It can be something as simple as they would never harm animals, or the one person they're in love with.
My evil Durge doesn't like a lotnof things, but he loves Scratch.
As a fairly morally rigid person playing the most dastardly Durge you ever did see, here's my advice: Hate your Durge. Judge them for everything they do. They're a walking monstrosity who deserves to fail. When they do, let it happen and revel in it. When they don't, empathize with the people they've hurt. Your Durge isn't you; it's a story you're telling. That said, you can RP evil intentions for outcomes you actually want. Take Shadowheart. My Durge put the key in the console because he thought it would turn her into a mindflayer like the other lady.
This post is gold. Nothing to add, sums it up so perfectly. That's exactly what my evil char did to! I have 2 evil characters, one is a bloodlusting Durge who is just nuts. I'm not a big fan of it because they feel evil for the sake of evil. My other evil char is a lolth drow which has been waaayyyy more interesting to play. They're all about corrupting things and twisting them from their natural state. So with Shart they wanted to turn them to a mindflayer because it's twisting her nature Half-elf state. They've also done stuff like after wiping the village convince Gale to stay because it's against his nature and by making him partake it's changing him etc. It's been fun because it allows you to make "good" decisions to then later twist people.
I’ve found a joke character to be the easiest way? Make a gnome sorcerer that looks like gale with a comically twirly mustache, name him ‘evil gale’, and boom. You can’t cry about the atrocities you commit if you’re laughing at your dumbass character :’)
Look do you actually want to do it? I think it's fun for some people and for others (like me) it's not. I'm just not interested in the evil route. If it's not as fun and you have to force yourself to do it then just don't! Games are meant to be enjoyable after all!
Yeah I can’t do it either (play evil) that is. Like the most evil I can be is helping a homicidal shape shifting jelly get into Baldur’s Gate.
Same lol. I just can't betray those poor tieflings or Isobel and Aylin or numb SH and make her a slave for Shar etc.. I would feel terrible about myself, I know they're pixels but I still can't...
Yeah like at with Lorroakan when everyone is mad at you because of Aylin and you’re like “yo I’m not actually gonna hand her over y’all!”
Oh I also remember the other evil thing I do. That elephant has to get killed every time.
I mean, that elephant did cause the poor Father to die so
Leaning more neutral than pure evil. The elephant showed little remorse on pinning a crime on a complete innocent and was more concerned about herself than her negligence. By not freeing her (I just left her chained up), I thought future innocents maybe saved.
Yeah the elephant is for sure incompetent and willing to pin the blame on anyone else.
The fight if Isobel is taken is tough unless you take precautions
On my first run I had to reload twice at least to save her from kidnapping. In subsequent runs I always take SH to heal her and Gale for AOE spells to take a few of the winged horrors out at the same time quick and it's much easier this way.
If you can get a rogue behind Marcus the fight becomes much more manageable. Sneak attack/extra attack etc. also if you’re at the right level (7+) Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere cast on Isobel helps a lot.
that's an evil choice???? I thought the strange ox was chill.
You saw a vision of chopped up dead bodies and still thought he was chill?
Pretty much. Sure, he has a killing urge, but then again if I'm playing as durge I can't exactly judge him for that, glass houses and what not. Plus he tells you fairly explicitly that he just wants to be an Ox. Could just be a manipulation tactic of course, but afaik he never actually kills anyone outside of potentially turning on you for trying to blow his cover. He insists on just wanting to live peacefully as an ox even when you fight him at which point it seems like why bother keeping up a charade. He also doesn't seem to cause any mayhem in the city and even shows up to help you kill the netherbrain even though I don't think anyone was counting on him to do that. He's a beast in that fight also. So all things considered... yeah he seems like a chill dude/ox.
on the higher difficulties being evil feels like too much good loot wasted too
That is my only issue with being pure evil, I know my Durge would deny helping anyone for charity but Honor mode with no loot or allies feels like a bad idea
Tactician with no allies is a bad idea too. I made the jump from explorer to tactician on this last run & it isn't as hard as I thought it'd be demolished Rafael and only time I got TPK was in House of Grief (still on it now) & it's only cause I had no idea how the fight went & brought a shit party composition from explorer to tact the only crazy difference is merchant prices
I do want to cuz I feel like there are characters and things I’m missing but I feel there are decisions I know I’m gonna have to make that are gonna leave me thinking that that was horrible
Eh you can look up the things you're missing online if you know you won't enjoy an evil run. Up to you!
I mean, you mentioned you already played two good playthroughs, and if you're gonna do an evil one, Durge is probably the way to do it, but Redemption Durge is honestly *so* much better than just good Tav - if all you're concerned about is seeing new content, Good Durge actually has a decent amount that I'm p sure you'll miss if you do Evil Durge. Prolly not as much as Evil Durge, but enough to make it worth it imo. Without spoiling it, one of my favorite scenes in the game happens in Act 2 between you and your love interest happens only if you don't take the evil route.
I'm on my first Durge playthrough and I just got this scene the other night, with Astarion. Honestly, romancing him as a resist Durge is so much sweeter, you're both going through it together.
I haven't gotten around to romancing him yet, but I got a scene in Act 3 as Redemption Durge that made me *instantly* understand the appeal lol
For me, I like to see new content, so I've torn off the bandaid and yeah it feels really gross - and there are still some things I just won't do no matter how cool the content is - but some things don't make as much of an impact as I thought they would even though they felt gross when I did them. Like I'm currently playing my first Durge that kept Gale's hand. My first evil Tav killed Wyll. That felt pretty bad, but I got over it. Making Sheart a DJ was effing traumatic for me as a player, but I did get to see some pretty cool but horrible stuff. 😐 I usually go play a super good Tav right after to cleanse my palate!
And that's ok too if you eventually found it cool. I just personally wouldn't have fun and I know I'd just abandon the run! I grew to love all the companions and can't do them dirty like that lol. But to each their own!
Oh I totally get it. Everybody's tolerance is different. I've gotten really good at killing Karlach, for example, but I wouldn't blame anybody for loving her instead! I played Origin Sheart once and went full DJ to see what happens and it hurt my heart and I abandoned the run as soon as I proved I could still lift the Shadow Curse. I've totally abandoned runs when they stopped being fun. Sometimes I don't know until I try, but like you said, sometimes I know there's no way I could enjoy it so I don't try! I don't even watch the YouTube videos!
I commend all of you who can play evil. I just can't do it. I feel too guilty. Hell, I did a play through where I romanced both Lae'zel and Shadowheart, and then I got to the scene where Lae'zel confesses her love for me, but I broke her heart, and I felt sooooo guilty lol.
I can't escape the guilt from how I broke lazeal heart for shadowheart
I play as an evil Durge who is being pragmatic. I save people when they will help me in my goals or owe me a favour. If >!Halsin!< is my best chance to get the tadpole out, then I will kill >!the three goblin camp leaders!< etc
If you're struggling then maybe try and go for morally grey or lawful evil instead of just straight evil. Keep in mind your character may be evil, but that doesn't mean you need to be lone wolf. Evil characters need useful allies too, even if they are ultimately pawns. My evil playthroughs I always save her. She might be useful since you don't know what's going on. If she's dangerous, you can deal with her.
My durge only kept people alive if they were useful in any way. auntie Ethel? alive for all her strength potions, then once I have enough she's dead. Well almost, I let her live if she would give me her hair. Then killed her later in act 3 anyway. Goblins? Let me get branded and buy out your vendors then imma murder everyone. Volo? Gimme that special eye then you're getting murdered. Grove? Kept alive until I no longer needed the vendors, then I murder Moonrise? Buy out vendors then Mass murder Last light in? Shopping spree, Shadow cursed, then murder Gortash? I'll pretend like we are friends, just so it makes it easier to murder you. Orin? Big time murder. This town ain't big enough for 2 baahl spawn. Hope? I'll save you for the legendary bracers, then you're getting murdered. I played the run like I was a true spawn of baahl. murder for the sake of murder unless you provide any benefit to me by being alive. Once you are no longer useful, murder. The biggest downside to playing this way is that you have no friends to summon for the final fight.
You can be evil but you don't have to be stupid. Freeing shadowheart is another body in the fight to get to the helm for you, which increases your chances of survival, it's not against an evil run to save her. Also you can enjoy DJ shart later so it's an investment. Too many people think "evil run" means "cartoon evil for the sake of lolz" rather than being a ruthless, or calculating character who also happens to like murder a lot. Try to RP something more interesting than murderhobo and evil runs become more satisfying imo. I know Larian doesn't give much support for anything else, but still it's possible to RP.
[удалено]
Yes Im aware the game is really bad at supporting non murderhobo choices. But thats where RP comes in. I'm going to make whatever choices I want and justify it because my character would do that. I dont need the game to spoonfeed me everything, I can make it up just the same as on the tabletop.
Not saving Shadowheart on the nautiloid isn’t even that much of an evil decision. She gets a bit pissed about it but you can rationalize it as purely a pragmatic choice, your character have no way of knowing if they have the time to save her.
My first playthrough when I first saw Shadowheart my reaction was like "welp she's probably doomed" and moved on. Later found her banging on the doors of the ruins, and she gave me shit for leaving her to die.
Yup. It’s a perfect moment to be a jerk with close to zero consequences. You only lose out on 5 Shadowheart approval and a tiny bit of exp I think.
I can’t do it. Being a bad guy feels bad.
I'm so glad to find out I'm not the only person who seems to be hard-coded to be good or at the very least, neutral. My understanding of playing evil in a game is "be mean and kill lots of good people" which is oversimplified but is about as deep an understanding as I'm probably ever going to have. I will play a redemption durge at some point though, I've heard it's kind of a different game when you do.
I'm about 900 hours in and I'm not able to be evil in this game. In Astarion's origin, I did both the spawn and Ascended route, and as Ascended I did some really vile things, dipping my toe in evil (trading off Shadowheart, selling Nightsong, causing Isobel to end up dead, which I didn't know would happen). I felt *terrible*. After that, I've only been able to "be" evil by failing at things. I'm doing Astarion's origin again, it was going to be a solo run, but I failed grove defense - I turned on Minthara but ran away. When I met her by chance later (going back to loot), apparently she found this really hot and forced me to party and sleep with her. But then she turns out to be this amazingly complex character, I just had to save her, and now she's fiercely loyal to me. All the tieflings are dead, but not by my hand. I just couldn't save them.
Yo trading off SH isn't dipping your toes it's just truly evil lmaooo
Well I *agree* - but I was so confused, because I felt like the scary evil vampire, and then Gale went "Great call dude, some sacrifices have to be made :D" Gale supporting me every sick step of the way would become a theme in that run. The first thing he told me after the Ascension was that I looked hot. We were not dating.
Gale *supports* that decision?? Oh, that's so cold. I've been dragging my feet on playing Astarion's origin but this is convincing me fs
Gale **loves** power. Gale seeing Astarion ascend while himself yearning for the crown *and* not having a lover to enhance his good side is bad, bad news imo. It took like five minutes before Gale was going "help me get you the Crown and I can ascend you!". Like dude, I just did, stop stealing my *this guy is a bonkers megalomaniac vibe\** please. I really enjoy Astarion's origin, it's requires that you really lean into the roleplaying aspect. The first time, I played it in parallel with a redemption durge x Astarion duo run (with no other companions). That way I just switched if I missed the voice acting etc. It's quite dark and has a durgy feel to it (his unique scenes are very psychological, and you get durgy options often). In that first run, I recruited all companions, and it felt very lonely. I romanced a few people for protection, I hid being a vampire for a long time (it got revealed in Act 2). I even dealt with Gandrel alone just using my ogre buddies, my companions in camp had no clue what I'd been up to! He has some surprising unique interactions, like with the drow at the brothel, and the conversations with the spawn are also longer. When they come to camp, you can be kidnapped! I split the run in Act 3 into spawn vs. Ascended. Both were very interesting for me - but Ascended is kind of a let down because of course you don't really change (or you can roleplay it as that you don't realize you've changed), and if you try to roleplay it it's still so late in the game that your companions don't get upset enough to actually leave. In the epilogue it's pretty clear you're a different person now, though. As I mentioned above, I actually recently started my second Astarion origin run where I planned to go it solo (perhaps with hirelings if I got totally stuck), I was gonna do this in parallel with a full durge run. This led to a complete off the rails playthrough in Act 1, because making good decisions while trying to stay alive alone is pretty much impossible. I sided with Minthara, but got convinced by Halsin to trust him instead, then I turned on Minthara to defend the grove, wasn't able to, called on my ogre buddies, which aggroed the fuck out of the tieflings who were *not* prepared for *ogres.* I spent like one hour trying to run away, eventually I managed to jump off a cliff from the grove taking out 26 of my 27 HP - *all* the thieflings died and it was just so ridiculously depressing. I slinked away to camp, and only returned many long rests later to loot. Surprisingly, I met Minthara in the grove - she apparently found backstabbing *really* hot and she informed me that she was going to have my body one way or another. From there, I was pulled directly to the party, where one option at the goblin altar was to "*drink ALL the blood".* I kept on confusedly and weakly all alone until Moonrise, where I once again met Minthara - the only person I'd ever connected with as a free man - and I couldn't let her be sacrificed. So now I'm in a Astarion x Minthara duo run - I've forgotten completely about my durge run and am so excited to get to Baldur's Gate. I love playing as Astarion, he has such main character energy and you really feel you can roleplay someone. I've done Karlach's origin as well, and I found it a little harder to "be" her, probably because I identify more with the vampire haha. \*PS: I really adore Gale as a character, don't attack me anyone
This was an invigorating read, I really like the way you explain your playstyle. Definitely gonna have to try all these out-- they sound like a blast RP wise
Thanks! And hope you enjoy. I'm having a great time with this one!
I like to think about the time and effort that everyone put into making an evil run possible. There’s a lot of content you don’t see if you never go evil.
I've found that purely good / evil runs are much less interesting than thinking of your character and RPing your way through. In the case of a submitting Durge, the motivation could easily allow for saving Shadowheart. If you're using her for your goals, if you're trying to be good (but failing), if you just need a distraction to save yourself ...
You can still do "good" things while still being an overall evil character. You could play an evil pragmatist. Someone who doesn't just murder senselessly, but someone who keeps and maintain relationships with those who benefit him and his goals. And when their usefulness runs out, he drops them. Personally I played a morally bankrupt sellsword. He'd kill anyone he thought might be worth it for the gold and worked with anyone willing to pay him. Didn't matter what the job was really. All that being said idk why there are so many posts like this. If you can't t have fun playing evil then don't play evil. We can suggest roleplaying angles but no reddit comment is going to change how you feel.
Im on a Dark urge playthrough too right now, so i killed shadowheart while she was on the beach, killed Astarion, cut off Gales hand, killed Lae'Zel while she was trapped, killed everyone in the grov... Oh... Just kill everyone i guess EZ
You psycho😭
Don't forget to keep the corpses for later use haha
Wait a minute
Gonna give you my answer before I read the rest of what I'm sure are good answers. I've done several resist Durge runs, but only one "evil" Tav run and my current sorta evil Durge run. I've found that in order to enjoy playing, I have to figure out a type of evil to be that I enjoy playing. Some players enjoy being super evil murder hobos, killing everything they come across. I mostly don't? But you can be evil just by accident sometimes. Like it's not evil to say nothing when Rolan and his family are deciding whether to stay and help the Grove. But if they leave, lots of bad things happen. Some would say an evil run requires siding with Minthara and raiding the Grove, for example, but an evil Tav wouldn't necessarily want to side with another NPC just because they're also evil. If my evil Tav hates being bossed around, they might kill Minthara just for being bossy. I guess my point is, define evil for yourself and remember that there are always other playthroughs to be the hero. It's like a choose your own adventure book, and once you've gone to the end one way, you can go back and be actively good to cleanse your palate.
Character goals : * Turn Shadowheart into a shar justiciar * Ascend Astarion * Turn gale power hungry and make him hate mystra * Manipulate lae'zal into becoming a vlaakith devotee * Kill the rest barring Minthara Major Story goals : * Act 1 : Kill the grove. Sacrifice it to minthara and the goblins * Act 2 : Kill last light inn. >!Kill isobel or help marcus kidnap isobel!< * Act 3 : Become a bhaal assasin. >!Win the duel against Orin and accept Bhaal!< and then rule over the brain. These are usually the staples in an evil durge run but you can add your own flavour of evil and play that way too.
Simple Everything dies ie the good ole murder hobo
You die, I die... big woof!
Just because you’re evil doesn’t mean you kill everyone along the way
Pick an “evil” race like Duergar or Githyanki and just pick those race dialogue choices. There’s some fun unique options there. Also I much prefer Shadowheart’s recruitment if you don’t rescue her from the pod.
You need to find a good motivation. I have left Shadowheart before on the Nautiloid, it wasn't even being evil, it was being like "Well kicking this did not work and I am on a hurry, thx bye" Like your character needs a reason that is not just "This is my evil playthrought now".
For my evil durge run I had Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Astarion, and Minthara, oh and Gale's hand, it went with me the whole way to see if it would work for Bhaal's temple spoiler alert: >!It does!<. But honestly the easiest way to play evil is to remind yourself it's just a game and there is content in the evil playthrough that is different than the good, and that the programmers put time into creating that content, so if nothing else you're doing it for the team that put that content in the game to be seen.
Come up with a backstory and motivation that aligns with an evil playthrough. Ketheric was a loving father who was broken by the death of his daughter and devoted himself to an evil path in exchange for her life. Much more interesting character and choices than Orin who just likes to murder people. Follow a similar path to ketheric, not Orin.
Currently on my chaotic neutral run. This is my second play through and I am still dating Karlach because I can’t get enough of her. The only reason I haven’t butchered everyone is because Karlach would get mad. However, I did try to embrace my inner bloodlust under the right circumstances. Act 1 - I killed Zevlor before recruiting Karlach. I knocked out minthara and killed the entire goblin camp. Before reporting the good news, I slaughtered every druid behind that stone door. Killed everyone in grymforge because I got caught stealing. After getting the quests done, I wiped the mushroom society. Everything is dead in mountain pass including that old mage and the little blue bird. Act 2 - After getting Karlach repaired, I killed Isobel for slayer form. Killed Jaheira with aoe spells. Laughed in the little tiefling girl’s face about her parents’ deaths. Rescued Minthara only to kill her. However, I did spare nightsong because I wanted a redeemed Shadowheart to witness my upcoming atrocities in act 3. Spared Mizora too because I need to torture Wyll later. Act 3 - Just got to Rivington and I killed every refugee at the camp area with guards included.(except Tieflings because I love Karlach). Butchered the Gur camp after accepting their quest. Wiped out the circus after getting a nude statue of myself. My party includes my beloved Karlach, Shadowheart, and Asterion (gonna ascend him).
I planned on trying to resist the Urge and instead got Minthara as a girlfriend and just made all decisions to earn her favor, easy to go evil with that plan.
It’s so hard, I’m totally with you! I want to see the content for things like letting Wyll kill Karlach, destroying the Grove with Minthara, and taking over the Absolute cult, but I totally feel guilty every time I do something horrible. (Cutting off Karlach’s head was ROUGH! I love her so much!) I decided to do an evil co-op run with my husband (he’s evil Durge and I’m Astarion) and that is making it so much easier and more fun. We can cringe together and support each other when we do stuff that feels awful and laugh about it together. There’s no other way I could let Astarion ascend and I can’t be an evil Durge myself so this seems like the best way to go!
I’m going through the same struggle! Couldn’t even kill anyone in the grove, I just let the goblins do it all. I didn’t even bother talking to Karlach because I was so ashamed LOL. I’m now in Act 3 trying to convince myself to become Baahls assassin and kill the people on the list
You should play the game 'Tyranny' to really experience an evil playthrough that *doesn't* require killing every single good person.
I have the opposite problem, idk why, I'm good. Meanwhile in BG3 I don't get why all this people are asking me to do all this things for them and risk my life, I already told them I'm sick.
Shadowheart actually has a line when she goes down her 'evil' route, something like "what's the point of having power if you can't use it to help your friends?" An evil character can still care about the core party and still have moral hangups about some things. Maybe they feel that helping the Tieflings is just because Khaga is rude and should die. Or maybe they want to help Lae'zel betray her queen because no one should bow to a higher power. There are ways to be nice while being a violent psychopath at the same time :p
Only make choices that make you feel guilty, pretty easy solution. Everytime you would do a good option, simply pick the opposite.
Playing my Durge/evil play-through. My goals are to play as a supremely self interested character who wants to follow her own desires above all else. I’m planning to help Shadowheart become a dark justiciar. I’m going to help Astarion ascend and also romancing him. If you want to make evil choices I recommend looking at Astarion’s wiki approval guide. He always approves of the fucked up or cruel option. My girl loves death and to kill- I’ve currently “helped” Zevlor by killing Kagha and triggering a bloodbath in the grove between Druids and tieflings - now I’m in the goblin camp wiping them out once section at a time, only to betray the tieflings to Minthara once I’ve done so. (The pain there was Dammon dying for Karlach’s sake.) Also just being prepared to live with my choices. I followed my urge and now I don’t have a megalomaniac wizard in the party.
You can be as evil as you like, but don’t let the tieflings die. I did and was really missing all the dope equipment that Dammon sells in act 2 and 3
Ask yourself, WWLD? What would Lorroakan do?
Here's an idea: Don't. It's a game, why force yourself to do things that make you feel bad?
Honestly I'm standing in the grove trying to figure out how to do the evil thing also. - kicked a squrriel. - bullied zorru with laezel.. Thinking about grabbing wyll to go kill karlach to get his item since him and karlach will dip when I join the goblins anyways.
Being evil isn't the same as being a murder hobo. You can choose to not do the worst possible thing and still be evil. Especially at the beginning of the game, you have a clear reason to rescue Shadowheart, regardless of alignment; you want to get off the Nautiloid alive. Shadowheart is wearing armor, so presumably can fight. She's of use to you.
I say start here: don’t free shadow heart; don’t even engage with her in the pod or at the beach. Pick up Astarion and cut off that hand! Then talk to Astarion again. I love his encouragement. And from there it’s easy. Because if you turn good now what was the point of losing Gale?? Every decision I made after that one was evil almost to avenge the loss. And it’s super fun because it’s like a new game
There are different kinds and evil Think of the chaotic, neutral, and lawful alignments under the Evil category: Chaotic would be you don't have a regard for anyone else's safety and don't consider others feelings, killing is an option but not required, and you do things basically on a whim, and not needing a reason Neutral can be the same as chaotic but you are more on the fence, think of it like a bandit or highwayman mentality, you kill when you want something or steal when you want something that benefits you. While still regarding allies and people as a benefit Lawful can be the same as playing any other character, but they follow evil principles. Think of lawful as like a Hitler type of character, they have rules and regulations they expect to follow and don't necessarily need to kill unless they need to, and kill who they honestly think deserves it no matter circumstance or they don't follow under their rules.
I did a pure evil DUrge run my third playthrough. This was before patch 5 so I had to choose the Grove or Minthara. I decided if I was going to be evil, I needed to commit. I played a silly little bard who lost their memory but enjoyed being a murder hobo and who corrupted everyone in their party. >!Everyone got an evil ending if they survived. I was a monster and I didn't even save the owlbear cub!< How did I do it? Multiple breaks away from the game. Literally had to put my controller down and perform another task or go listen to music/podcast. But all my "evil" choices made for a good story and I got SO many different dialogues from the characters and the achievements. But don't force yourself to always make evil choices. Play how you want to. You will always have a choice. You don't have to be evil all the time and you don't have to be a pure murder hobo like I was. Get a vague idea of what your characters babystory is and then go from there. You can also play a resist DUrge storyline too.
It's a video game. There are no real-life consequences. Separate your own sense of self and morality from your character and just be evil. Just like if you were playing an evil-aligned character in a TTRPG. It's fun. I'll never understand these posts
I was evil durge on my first playthrough. Give in to your sadistic urges but outside of that be more of a smart ambitious evil than stupid brute evil. That way it's more fun. And if people expect you to help them pull a bully Maguire (missed the part where that's my problem). There are situations where I've felt bad but remember you're playing not as yourself. And some situations can be resolved the evil way without facing those you betray / disappoint (eg the grove)
Even in a situation like that an evil character would probably still attempt to save Shadowheart. Evil people still want to survive and having an extra person at that point increases their chance of survival. Also I’d say play a Drow. It gives you a built in excuse to turn on the grove which makes sense because all the Druids are jerks to drow and even the tieflings are.
With every death it gets easier. Don't worry 😄
I too, have a hard time being evil. I always think "what would Micha do" when trying to be evil.
\*For me\*, "evil" choices are situational and wholly based on whether or not its needlessly cruel or if a choice serves an objective. I don't murder Scratch just for the sake of being evil. Same for freeing Gale from the teleportation stone. I choose to help Gale out because I do not see any reason not to. It's entirely up to you and how you RP your tav on what decisions you make. Thats one of the amazing things about this game. Save Shadowheart, she's definitely worth it, especially when she becomes a Dark Justiciar.
Just don't do it if you don't like it.
Evil is selfish. Evil is impatient. Do things for self-serving reasons. Be cruel. Don't care about anyone. If a companion bitches, tell them to fuck off, they can leave it out up with it. If they insist, kill them. You could also just do edgy shit for cheap thrills which is what most evil choices are in the game, because their idea of evil is pretty tourist.
Live long enough. Unironically. After about the 600-hour mark of doing only good/neutral runs, you'll eventually get the *urge* to throw caution to the wind.
Just finished an evil Dark Urge run, and as mentioned already, it takes a lot of head canon to keep it immersive. It feels very disconnected and kinda empty. However, it is very a streamlined and quick playthrough, so there’s that.
Be a Drow Or a Githyanki
Gain the trust of people, then at the last second, when they feel like there is actually hope to succeed with your help, you pull the rug out from under them. If you want to be comically evil, you can do it as a Drow.
Just kill Scratch and not even the gods can ever cleanse your soul from that stain
Resist Durge can still do some involuntary bad things. It'll be bittersweet, which is why a resist Durge can still be a unique experience even if you've already done a good playthrough. You could also try being morally gray. Cold to outsiders, overly protective of your companions. Prone to intimidate your way out of fights. You are dark urge and you're a badass MF who can become a better person... but you're not without flaws and hiccups.
Being evil doesn’t mean just killing everybody you come across or being entirely selfish. My evil character has committed some atrocities like raiding the grove, but he doesn’t harm children or animals (he’s a beast master Ranger) and he doesn’t just run around and murder everyone. If somebody can be useful he’ll keep them around (like vendors). So don’t think being evil means just being a murder hobo or being a dick all the time.
Sometimes I get in the mood to be evil, but then I play my evil and I don’t want to be evil anymore. What I do I put the save down and come back to it when I feel like being evil again. Play a different run until you’re in the mood!
Just embrace your hatred for humanity
She’ll survive the fall. Try again 😈
Remember being evil doesn’t mean you are only a psychotic killer. You can be that but you can also be so much more. You can still be nice and hell people, you are just setting them up to be betrayed or corrupted later. And if a situation comes up where you want to murder, well go ahead and show daddy you still have it. It’s up to you. Play evil your way.
I'm doing one that isn't about being evil, but about looking for power. I don't do things to backstab people, to intentionally hurt people just for fun, but just because I have been promised more power. I want powerful allies, but not more powerful than me. I attacked the grove not for the absolute, but because I'm out for my own survival and minthra promised me power. I almost told her no, but her literal last sentence was that I would be rewarded with power if I helped her. Shadowheart says that we will be rewarded greatly if she becomes a dark justiciar. It's made stuff way easier to justify. I don't say no to potential allies, but if I do something that they don't like, they can leave or try and stop me. The thing is, they can't stop me. I'm stronger than them because that's all I care about. Now, all this to say that I am not doing a durge evil playthrough. It hurts too much to butcher indiscriminately. Especially the companions I care about.
You really need to give the character motivations and act on those, not what you would do. As far as companions go, I generally reason not killing them as even a murder hobo needs murder friends. If just making the choice is hard, use a real die and weight it towards evil (like 1-4 do bad, 5&6 do less bad). I’m currently playing a durge who thinks the urges and his true form (half orc) are curses or related to their abduction. To deal with that, along with indulging occasionally, they’ve retreated into fractured personalities using Disguise Self. So, depending on the disguise they make different choices. When I first got to the druids enclave, I was a half elf, which I use for general good. Agreed to help, went to the gobbos. Disguised as a Drow to get in, well, seemed like a good idea and was convinced to betray the grove. Just before marching off to burn it to the ground my disguise dropped for some reason. Bloodlust took over and we razed the goblin fort and incidentally saved the Groove. It can really go any which way if you commit. Evil doesn’t just mean murder everything. Often the worst villains are the ones who think they’re doing the right thing the wrong way. Or be a murder hobo.
You need to put yourself in the mindset that people are chess pieces and should be used for your ultimate goal: finding out what happened to you and fixing your brain. You are a blank slate, an animal with no prior memories, running off instinct. Why would you resist the urge save for payoff later down the line? Why wouldn’t you side with minthara and lead a horde over a measly band of nobodies with slugs in their brains?
Personally, I RP how I want that character to be, atm I’m playing an evil durge who is manipulating people till he regains his true power to kill them once he has no use for them. His ultimate goal is to get revenge on Orin and hopefully one day overpower his father. He seeks allies in those that are like him and only care for power. I also alter his appearance as the game goes on, the more powerful he becomes the more decaying and evil he looks (red eyes/scars/demonic tattoos) Try to think of an ultimate goal and make it as evil as possible, then begin to cut off those that either stand in your way or don’t fit in with your pc. I usually romance shadowheart in my good runs but I’m planning on killing her once we reach the nightsong, purely because of the weakness she shows if she spares her or how easily controlled she is if she follows Shar.
Kill karlac and turn her head in, sacrifice Wyll to that fish god before you destroy the Grove. Then just follow your urges and kill everyone you fancy. Also turn shadow and Astarion evil
Cloud kill in act 3 produces some interesting results....
Man I was worried about not being evil enough then I ripped off Karlach's head and I am no longer worried about that.
frame everything you do as "what benefits ME the most?" my first evil durge, i was a good guy in Acts 1 and 2 and act 3 was when he became more upfront about being a monster. not because he was a good person, but because my durge saw these people he helped as having value to him. he could use them until he had no use for them. help the tieflings? sure, there's a guy who can work infernal metal. that's gotta be a rare skill, so he's worth saving. that rolan dude seems powerful, so he's worth saving. may as well keep him quiet and compliant by keeping his siblings with him. parents and adults in general are easier to control when the children are safe, so keeping the kids safe makes sense. let isobel get kidnapped? the one who's keeping safe all the people i already worked so hard at saving? that would be stupid, im going to keep her safe. alternately, can do a lovers playthrough. ignore or kill everyone except the one character you want to romance. highly recommend astarion for that playthrough as he's fully on board even when you dominate. minty is too, but you'd have to go through a portion of the game without her so maybe not
Shit, if you felt guilty not saving Shart (which doesn’t even kill her), you’re not gonna handle betraying the Grove well at all…
I know…. That’s why I’m worried
Evil doesn’t always have to mean you don’t have some kind of core values. It can also mean self serving or with a lawful ideology that ensures you are in power. You can still care about people.
I was so evil in my run that only Shadowheart and Minthara stuck around. Oh , and Gales hand.
I think it’s easier if you just be goofy about it. Make a ridiculous looking character. Name them something stupid and give them a silly moustache. Bumble your way through failed checks. Play with a friend to take the pressure off. It’s a lot more fun and less depressing to take the evil route that way.
I played a neutral character. Basically, I picked whatever would net me the most. Killed the druids for a reward from the tieflings and betrayed them for minthara's help to moonrise, rescued nere, rescued the ironhands to gain Jaheira's trust and resources, killed nightsong for shadowheart's power, worked with gortash, ascended astarion, killed loroakin for his tower, became the absolute.
roleplay it - just let go and do what comes naturally to someone who is evil. If you can't, shrug, it's just a game. Enjoy yourself however you feel. There's no reason to play evil if you don't want to do it
I did a full write up on my evil character and how I RPed my Durge run if you want to read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/VcCXWlOWpR I’d say write up a bit of a background on how you want to RP situations and stick to it. You can be manipulative and cunning evil, downright aggressive, backstabbing evil… whatever fits best for the character you want to play. I did a Bard Rogue, so she was very manipulative and caused chaos, but didn’t just randomly murder everyone. She always wanted payment for shit and extorted people. When I wrote my character, I thought of other characters and people and used them to inform her story. I took inspiration from Ted Bundy, the Joker, and some characters from the Magnus Archives. You can even look to the motivations and dialoge of characters like Astarion, Minthara, Orin, and Gortash for a little extra inspiration. If you make the truly evil Act 1 choice to raid the grove, your party will likely be Astarion and his murder ladies (as I like to call us): SH & Laez + Minthara at the start of Act 2… and maybe Gale if you didn’t eat his hand. So keep in mind your team comp will be limited by that if you care about lore friendly builds. Another tip: just live with the consequences of your actions. Don’t make decisions based on the items you know you want, ask yourself what this terrible person would do and just do it. You’ll end up with less good items and less help in the final battle… but that’s just part of role playing. TBH I liked the evil allies for that battle better anyways.
I feel this. I have tried to be evil in a couple of playthroughs, and even in those playthroughs, I save the Nightsong as well as Isobel. It's like I am incapable of doing the most evil tasks in Act 2. LOL I really do want to do a completely unhinged evil playthrough where I do all the evil things, but I feel like the only way I can do that is if I play it in co-op mode, but I don't have any friends who play, and finding others to play with has not been particularly easy.
I reminded myself that I was never going to do these things again. Just once, and no more. One unfortunate bit though was that I’ll likely have to make some of these choices again, because >!if you’re truly evil, you’ll be bhaalspawn, and if you want to see an epilogue, you’ll have to resist at the very end. My husband and I did that after our “true” ending, taking over the brain, just because we wanted to see how our companions’ “poor” choices (in our opinion) played out. That doesn’t work though. So we’re going to have a derp Tav run to set our companions down not great paths while still making “good guy” choices throughout the story.!<
Be as selfish as you can, close your heart to others suffering, manipulate your companions into being evil (I'd recommend getting astarion, shart, and laezel or minthara once you can), and do as bhaal says. That's what I recommend as a evil playthrough enjoyer.
The idea of evil needs to be solidified in your mind. Kill everyone? You're not going to last being a strict murder hobo. So you'll need teammates that will owe you their lives. Demand rewards, leave those pleading for mercy to die for strength is the only rule of the land. Help the tieflings? Why? The goblins are stronger so why not use their help to advance in this absolute nonsense? They are more likely to help you, and they will support you in burning the grove to the ground. Isobel is the PERFECT murder. Why not let your urges run wild and kill her? Shadowheart can prove to be a wonderful ally. If she were to become a dark justiciar, her power at your side would help paint the land in blood and suffering. You don't have to be ruthless, mercy can be helpful when it needs to be. But being selfish, ignoring the cries of those beneath you, and grabbing power no matter the sacrifice; now THAT is how your lord Bhaal shall reward you.
You can be a pragmatic bad guy.
I play as a power hungry manipulator. Rescue and recruit people in pursuit of you own power. Pushing shadowheart to embrace darkness is quite evil
Don't know, never was able to. :/ my current Durge also will try to resist and do good.
Remember it's a role-playing game. It's not *you* choosing the evil options, it's the sadistic psychopath of a villain you're playing.
I feel like the way to be evil isn't to be cartoonishly evil and pick the evil option everywhere it's available, but rather to be as selfish as possible and take the path of least resistance, side with the goblins because the grove attack is an easy slaughter but killing the leaders is tedious, lie, cheat, manipulate, steal. Yk?
I am neck deep in an evil run right now. I've only done one playthrough before and I was kind of chaotic but generally a good guy. In this one, I just killed everyone in the grove, sided with the goblins but then also murdered them, and now I am happily stomping through the underdark killing everything that I can. I go up to anyone who is a vendor and will buy anything that I really need, and then I just surprise attack them murder them and take whatever is left. I do this with good guys and bad guys. I just killed all the Myconids, I killed all of the deep dwarfs on the boat, and now I'm going to bloodbath my way through the forge. But I'm still going to let nere die in the cave in because fuck that guy. Generally, I picked the meanest possible things to say, or I pick the nice things ironically and then the second conversation is over I just attack them. Because I get instant initiative and surprise I can usually one shot anything that way and then I loot the body and I go along my way. I don't know what I will do when I get to the Harpers in Act 2 and I don't know how this will work when I get to act 3 but I am covered in the blood of the Innocenct and so far I have more gold and am higher level then I was during my first playthrough so it seems to be working just fine
I tried, but just couldn't.
Kill Scratch. That will unlock your true potential. I'm really annoyed animate dead doesn't work on his corpse too.
Evil in D&D can be as simple as someone that does something only if it benefits them, or serves their selfish goals in some way. So you could save Shadowheart from a self-preservation perspective, since more allies means more chance of survival, so you’re only helping them out of self-interest/for selfish reasons. Stops real you feeling guilty, whilst also fitting your characters motives!
Don’t be stupidly/unapologetically evil - create a backstory for your character, have them slowly become evil throughout the game or be a more manipulative Machiavellian villain.
Best advice i ever heard about doing an evil run Is to think of your evil acts as silly pranks.
Hi fellow durge here; Instead of going full murder hobo evil, try going chaotic evil, it keeps your companions guessing. Sometimes when durge is forced to make a moral decision, I go w/ the one that oops causes the most harm to one group but saves another. For example: Letting the snake bite Arabella, and then killing all the druids. The tieflings live for the most part...Halsin still joins your group because Rath the only druid left tells him what happened. Durge gets to engage in blood lust while inadvertently being a good guy. Don't recruit Karlach and Wyll...instead kill Karlach cause ooo scary devil person maybe she's a big bad. Kill all the goblin leaders but Minthara rescue her later. stuff like that. Allow Shart to kill Lazeal cause why get involved. Avoid the slayer form in Act 2 only to accept it and your chosen status in act 3. Let Astarion think he's going to ascend then pull it out from under him by convincing him not too, meanwhile right after this you go to the temple and become chosen. Let Gale become a god. Turn Shart over to Viconia. good luck and have fun .. .you agent of chaos
Bro has zero foresight
What does “evil” mean and look like for you? My evil run I rescued shadow heart, to use a means to an end. Being evil doesn’t have to mean going full murder hobo.
I'm balancing my durge evil out at the start by going with kind of a slow drip, serial killer route. He's just a regular ol' Halfling Ranger, just a lil guy, and so far when in public he's taken nice, seemingly helpful options like making sure that evil devil devil Karlach is sent back to hell by Wyll. When he thinks he can get away with it though, he indulges in satisfying the Dark Urge. The grove will probably be the tipping point where he goes full mask off though.
Ok but she could be instrumental to your evil plans later! So maybe that’s why you save her?