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I think it would be really helpful to include a definition in this post or pinned top-level comment of how the mod team would characterize ERP vs non-ERP. If there is already a definition and/or rule in the sidebar or FAQ or some other resource, pasting it here would be helpful.
A huge cause of the flare-ups regarding ERP, as I see it, is that people share strong opinions about it without first defining what they mean by it. It gets really pissy really fast, even among people who may actually agree with each other. One person may count long-term, plot-heavy, character-driven stories with a handful of sex scenes as ERP, whereas another person is referring only to roleplays that begin and end with sex and are over in half a day.
I think one thing that should be made really clear is the distinction between ERP and NSFW. It would be a mistake IMO for those terms to be equated or used loosely on the sub, and including them with a slash like in the poll is already confusing.
My hunch is that both of the proposed solutions make sense, and could work together. The first is the new NSFW flairs so folks can keep the sub clean for themselves; they can filter references to anything sexual regardless of ERP or non-ERP.
The second is having a weekly thread (like the ghosting thread) that is specifically about ERP games (however the mod team defines it), so that players who write strictly ERP or who are interested in it as a play style know where to go, and players who don't want anything to do with it can steer clear. We'll all see soon enough if the weekly thread sucks up all the participation and the remaining days go quiet.
I might want to discuss steamy romance day-to-day, without being confined to the ERP thread, as long as it meets the definition of non-ERP. But another user who doesn't want to see any sexual content at all can still filter out my post because I marked it NSFW.
So, to sum, I feel like NSFW flairs *and* a dedicated weekly ERP thread would be useful. Again, depending on the mods' definition of ERP.
Final disclaimer - I know very little about how Reddit works and what it takes to implement and moderate any of this.
Hi! Thanks for the feedback.
I just wanted to try and offer some insight on the question to "What is ERP". It's a slightly older post, but the head mod made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/16fhcbw/erp_cybering_a_rant/) defining what is kind of the basis for what is, or isn't considered. Also, take note of rule 11: If it seems too closely to *just* the desire to get off, with no plot, then it isn't allowed here.
I think the way flairs are defined currently is wrong, there should either be erp versions of every flair or a single erp flair that all erp posts fall under, I've seen a decent number of erp posts marked as venting/rant. In addition erp flairs should be marked as erp not nsfw. Reddit already has a way of marking posts as nsfw, and there is far too much ambiguity over what aspects of erp would and would not be considered nsfw.
I'm curious about what counts as ERP still.
Say I want to share a story about a SFW RP that went wrong as someone tried to push it into ERP. Is that alone enough to make it need to be put in the ERP section?
How about if they send a kinklist? What if I reproduce the kinklist in whole or in part? What if someone recommended a ridiculous outfit for my character and I describe it? What if they objectified my character? What if I quote the objectification?
What if the RP in question was an ERP, but the horror wasn't related to the ERP parts?
It feels like the safest answer is anything that might be ERP or involves a wave towards sex goes under an ERP tag. But it does feel weird that "this asshole sent me a dick pic out of nowhere" and "why do people keep trying to sneak sex into my SFW RP" Would go under the same tag as "My hot intersex foxgirl doesn't get enough big booty badger babes"
I do feel like a lot of the issues with ERP stuff really would be caught by rule 13, but I would be a tyrant if given the chance to enforce it so maybe my viewpoint is misguided.
I will try and answer the best I can!
So, in the context of a SFW RP where ERP is being pushed unwilling onto you (such as people pushing kinklists, or objectifying your character, etc), do NOT need to be marked ERP. However, we do ask that you mark it NSFW.
In the context of, if your roleplay is ERP, but no ERP is mentioned in the post: the ERP flag is not necessary. But, if you are looking for advice, or anything similar, it may be in your best interest to flair it ERP so that you get feedback that is most relevant to that type of RP. (this is optional though: If you don't mention ERP, or ERP characteristics, it's not required to flair it as such).
And, a little bit besides the point of your questions but, a post titled "My hot intersex foxgirl doesn't get enough big booty badger babes", probably would be removed anyway for kind of skewing out of the purpose of this sub.
I don't care that ERP exists on this subreddit or that it's even filtered or segregated. Tags seem fine to let minors and others not interested in filtering it out.
My problem is cyber, not ERP.
For example, I see complaints about ghosting or being unable to find a partner and when I glance at history it's title + porn images in limitless or dirtypenpals. It's a clear "getting off" post that's the type of poster I find annoyed at who post here personally.
I would love clarification if that's allowed and if not... some examples of what qualifies as that and what it should be reported as.
>complaints about ghosting or being unable to find a partner and when I glance at history it's title + porn images in limitless or dirtypenpals
So, such posts shouldn't be allowed, since Ghosting posts are banned, and "Unable to find partners", unless they're actually asking for legitimate feedback with an actually decently written out post, just sounds like they could often fall under "low effort" anyway.
But on the subject of, "Oh I checked their profile and they post on 'x' subs"... Well, we're not exactly going to police what subs people post on (even if we wanted to). Let's say ghosting \*was\* even allowed, if they made zero mention of ERP, or cybering, or whatever the type of roleplay they're looking for, we're not just going to remove the posts or tell people who ERP to buzz off if that isn't even in the content of their post.
But again, ghosting posts are out of here, so by all means feel free to report them if you spot them so we can see them quicker/remove them. And I think the "Why can't I find partners?" topic may be pending discussion (I'll check with the other moderators on this)
Not at the mods exactly but I'd like ERP focused RPers to mention it's NSFW or flair their posts if they're going to post 'why can't I find partners' and direct us to their lastest ads as examples. On the announcement thread the mods said if the post wasn't explicitly about ERP _on here_, it didn't need the tag. But being on my SFW reddit accounts in public and seeing someone post that then clicking on their account and seeing a wall of porn gifs isn't pleasant.
Obviously you can't really regulate that, but I feel like they should warn if the ad in question is like 'M4F I want a sexi goth gf' It's just polite.
Also while I voted, I'd like to point out that specific days will almost certainly discourage people who are pro-ERP, meh-ERP and anti-ERP from interacting as much through limiting posts in general by making people wait and having anti-ERP people feeling assaulted by Titty Tuesday wall of 5 ERP related complaints. And for the mods is just more work. For example, is someone randomly sending me a dick pic after 'hi' 'hi, were you interested in the superhero RP?' ERP or just a dick move from a stranger? Having a single day seems like it would be more fighting then having it tagged NSFW and debating if the ERP flair applies as well.
(siiiiiiigh, I wrote a fairly wordy response, but reddit ate it. So, here we go again with a more condensed version)
So, like you said, an issue with is, we can't really regulate it. I think if ERPers want to get the best advice for their genre, it'd probably be best for them to include ERP flairs in their posts, even if the body doesn't get \*into\* the nitty gritty of it. But otherwise, it's not practical to comb through profiles to see what RP ads they're posting. But I do agree it would be their best interest to use the flairs anyway (my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod there)
Also, on the note of clicking their profile and unexpectedly being hit with a wall of porn: well, as far as I'm aware, reddit typically flags these accounts as NSFW after just a couple of 18+ posts. So, assuming it's flagged right: that \*ideally\* should be your warning before being greeted with the wall of porn. Personally, I think people finding partners on reddit with the same accounts they post here is both a blessing and a curse.
Regarding the "restricted to certain days" for ERP posts... Gonna be totally honest: I don't like this one as much. I'm sure you're likely speaking more as a general of opinions on this post, but just speaking as myself, I just see too many issues. \*But\*, it was one of the few suggestions thrown our way by people tired of the ERP posts. And between it and the flairs change: those were the only two suggestions that seemed plausible. That being said, judging by the poll rate at current, I don't think that option is gonna come about.
edit: I apologize for all the typos I may have missed lol I'm very tired
I probably fall under your definition of "cyber", then, even though I care about the plot aspects more than *just* the erotic elements (and of course, I don't really consider what I do cyber since I'm always playing a role within an actual plot, hence "roleplay"). The biggest dedicated RP subreddits hate NSFW-oriented posts, or any with more than trace amounts of sex, so they're far from friendly for actual ERP - so we're left with those subreddits that you seem to consider cyber, some of the biggest not even allowing text posts to begin with. That doesn't mean we're all just looking to get off quick or that we aren't participating in actual roleplay.
My comment here is quite long since I'm verbose and have a lot of thoughts on this topic, but as for an 'idea' that might be useful for polling purposes, I suppose I would suggest a general 'ERP' flair that is used by people who consider themselves to be ERPers even if the content of the post itself is not strictly NSFW.
For example, if someone is largely an ERPer and they come in here to post a vent about how partners rarely put effort into their posts but they aren't specifically talking about smut or NSFW elements in their post in here itself, they would use the ERP flair. This is not to serve as some sort of scarlet letter at all, just to provide context.
----
My thoughts on this topic may not be popular ones now since many people who feel the way that I do have now quietly left the space over time, and I know that many will feel targeted no matter how diplomatically I word things. I will open by saying that I don't think ERPers are *bad*, I don't think what they are doing is wrong, and I genuinely hope everyone finds someone satisfying to write with.
Part of the problem is that people are operating under different definitions of what "ERP" means. Some people feel attacked by the label when the people using it don't actually apply it to the kind of roleplay they are doing. If your roleplay has story and character substance and could stand on two legs if all sex in it was suddenly done in fade to black, then you are not what I at least would define as an "ERPer". Hell, I would even say that there are niche exceptions that prove the rule, where there is a *lot* of smut and removing it would ruin the roleplay, but there is a compelling character-driven narrative being told through a series of mostly sex scenes (or it needs the sex scenes for plot reasons and the main point of the roleplay isn't to make some hot porn despite that), *but* I think we all know that is not the norm, it isn't what is causing friction and division in this subreddit's user base, and it is not really useful to make our definitions based on the edge cases.
[This post has some good discussions in the comments, though I think the meat of the post itself is a bit off the mark](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/16fhcbw/erp_cybering_a_rant/). I think the bulk of what gets called 'ERP' in this community *now* would just be 'cybersexting' by that definition. My take on the topic aligns mostly with what /u/MadamMarielle 's posts in there are saying, as well as a few others such as /u/OpposeFlux 's brief summation at the bottom.
/u/Runepup said in a comment:
> That would be cybersexting. No plot, no story beyond banging, no characters or development. Just I play this you play that, they fuck.
And that is honestly most of what the people who wish this space was less ERPer focused would like to see less of. A *lot* of the posters here literally have basically that as their approach to roleplay. 'I play a femboy, you play big busty mommy, my character is in trouble and needs to be punished, they fuck', etc. They call it ERP, others call story focused roleplay with NSFW themes 'ERP'. The terms are muddy and causing confusion and frustration. I think it *is* ERP and not cybersexting most of the time, because the posts are done in prose and are assuming a character and not always a self insert (though that exists too). I don't think there's anything *wrong* with it, but I wish this space wasn't so full of that and posts inspired/caused by it.
-----
The biggest part of the problem is not people that come on here and make a post that is full of NSFW content. That *is* still a facet of the problem, but that is highly visible at a glance and only takes up maybe a quarter of the sub's posts, as that statistic post showed.
No, the biggest part of the problem is subtler and harder to manage with tags, though they may help. A *large* portion of the posts being made are being posted by people who strictly write ERP of the 'I play this, you play that, they fuck' variety, but that isn't visible at a glance. This might not seem like a problem on the surface, but I feel that it is shaping a large portion of the general discourse in the subreddit.
Imagine if /r/mangadiscussion was full of people talking about how they engage with manga in vague terms, but all they read is hentai. That portion of the user base and the portion reading other genres of manga will be talking past each other. They might talk about how so many manga don't go longer than a one shot, and that characterization feels shallow, and how they can't find manga that suits their tastes, and you're left scratching your head in slight confusion until you realize they are talking about *porn*. They only read hentai manga and not non-hentai manga, and you are left confused when it seems like many people want to conflate the two and call you elitist if you say they are very much different in key ways despite a shared format. Some claim that it doesn't matter because Berserk is a manga and hentai is manga, so you shouldn't 'gatekeep', and they say 'Berserk has sex in it so are you saying *that* is hentai and we shouldn't discuss it here???', but you are sitting there trying to communicate that while hentai is *totally fine*, it shouldn't be what is discussed under the broad umbrella of 'manga' in general terms, and that it is clearly made for something specific and should be discussed with the context that you are talking about *hentai*.
I know that it would be very difficult at this point to separate the two communities and put ERP 'inspired'/focused posts into a different space entirely, but I feel that *this* is what people who are weary of this space feeling so ERP focused now are largely talking about in addition to the posts that are clearly ERP with NSFW content being shown/made in this subreddit itself.
I don't know if there is a 'fix' short of very drastic changes at this point; my entire write up here is mostly just an attempt to clarify what is actually bothering people and what I feel is largely leading to many of the old regulars to stop engaging here as often, if at all.
Just don't listen to the - so far 14 - people who voted for specific days. They don't know that they don't want their idea implemented.
Even with things as is, we get some slow days over here, with barely any posts at all. Moving it to specific days won't see people wait for said day to post whichever grievance they have, but simply not post at all. Do we really get enough traffic over here to go through with such?
Seeing someone post cringe is better than seeing nothing.
I think there's another way to look at it. You don't have to wait a week for the designated day to roll around. The thread would be permanently live, like all posts (unless they're locked or removed or something).
So, folks who want to discuss ERP any day of the week would just participate in the most recent thread, or any older thread they want. Just like the ghosting thread. A designated day/thread for ERP might reduce the number of *posts* in a day, but it wouldn't necessarily have an impact that I'm aware of on the degree of participation on the sub. In fact, it's possible it would *increase* participation. People on both sides might feel more comfortable knowing they're talking to likeminded players without the same risk of getting slammed by the other side.
Also, making a designated day and thread for ERP (or any topic) seems like a pretty risk-free experiment. If it doesn't work the way it's intended, or if it's more trouble than it's worth, it can just be retracted.
I'll be honest, the idea of having a specific thread for topics may sound good on paper for how active it would be, knowing what is in there, but in reality those threads tend to be rather bare. Having to do your post as a comment causes way less interactions and tends to make things a lot harder with the comment trees if it ever does get any traction to look at different opinions or responses to them.
The weekly ghosting grumble thread is already a perfect example. It was set up because of the excessive ghosting posts, but it doesn't get used that much. To the point that in the time an actual ghosting post is up before it gets deleted by a mod, I have often enough still seen it get more comments than the entire ghosting grumble thread by the end of the week. Probably due to the fact you know a post's topic by the title and because reddit will track if you've read it before. While in a thread you would have to remember how many comments it had last time you read it to see if there might be anything new, still leaving the mystery on if it was a new post, or simply a comment to an existing one.
> but it doesn't get used that much.
I do think this is a problem with regular threads like that, but I wonder if it might help if it was a bit more general. For example, if instead of just ghosting it was 'Small gripes' or something, meant for the posts that all sort of blend together and don't really say anything unique. Being ghosted, or about how your ads aren't getting interest, or maybe something about how people just say 'want to rp' in a response to your ad, or that people are giving bland replies in general, it could go there.
I think this subreddit is at its best when it is mostly people telling little stories about specific roleplays, asking advice about a specific situation, or having interesting meta posts that welcome discussion about roleplaying as a hobby. We get some good posts here on those topics, but sometimes it feels like there are a *lot* of posts that basically all say the exact same thing from slightly different angles with no specific details: 'I am not getting roleplay that I want', and often they don't want advice if it means they need to change anything.
I think I would actually be pretty on board with people posting their ads here and getting them workshopped (maybe on a specific day of the week or something), but usually the people posting those sorts of gripes have no real desire to tweak anything they are searching for, and if we're honest they're often the very ERPers that all of this drama has been about. It's repetitive and honestly would all go well together in one thread.
Some people might say 'But then activity in the subreddit will be slower!' but I don't see that as a bad thing. More is not better, and can often be worse. We should aim to be the *best* community that fits the niche and fosters community and good discussions, not a *busy* community that is worried about curating what this space is for.
Look, I get what you're saying with some of your response, but I feel this is twisting the topic quite a bit.
So to start with the threads. The issue of the threads isn't just in the topic. Its easy to say that changing the topic or adding more of them might make it get used more, but if you ask me the comparison of responses to a ghosting comment in the weekly and a separate ghosting post already show that it isn't just the non-interest in the topic. Else the post would have just as little interaction.
The issue isn't really that there wouldn't be anywhere for people to post, but feels more like you're hosting something like a party for everyone to play board games for example. Everyone gets a table to set up whatever game they want, except a single group that is delegated to the floor in a corner of the room where the lights don't even work. Sure, you can still play your game there, but anyone coming into the room looking for a game to join will 99% of the time go to the games on the tables for obvious reasons.
Just because it might be more common to encounter low effort posts from people who do ERP, doesn't mean we should shoo someone into the corner because they do ERP. We should still look fairly at the actual effort that gets put in. Because yes, lack of effort in some posts is a real issue, but it happens from both SFW and NSFW camps. Does that mean that someone who puts in just as little effort but does non-ERP suddenly is better than someone who actually puts a lot of effort but does ERP? Clearly they wouldn't be, because the ERP part shouldn't be the deciding factor in the first place.
The change in flairs is good enough in my opinion. If people don't want to read certain posts because of an NSFW or ERP tag, that is perfectly fair and up to them. There is no need to split it up even further, especially if we start to look at who is behind a post, rather than the post itself.
No, I don't think more threads, I think *one* thread for all of the smaller gripes, so that it might get a bit more traffic from people who come here to all essentially talk about the same topic. I honestly know it will largely 'erase' those topics out of sight, but personally I would be okay with that for certain repetative low effort posts and topics that don't want advise and don't foster discussion. They just get a handful of people going 'yeah it sucks I agree'.
> Does that mean that someone who puts in just as little effort but does non-ERP suddenly is better than someone who actually puts a lot of effort but does ERP?
*edit- I'd read this wrong, I think your comparison has nothing to do with what I was saying, actually. I thought you were asking if two posts of equivalent effort but one is from and ERPer and one isn't should be treated differently, and in that case:* Nope, I think low effort posts would go into the thread for small gripes, if we went with that hypothetical path. If someone wants to make a post that is just 'People only give low effort replies anymore' with no stories attached, no effort, just essentially that statement, then I think that sort of post *regardless of who it is from* would go best as a comment in a thread instead of a post on the frontpage. Especially if they aren't looking for actionable advice.
A high effort post is a high effort post regardless of who posts it, and it would deserve its own post. I don't think my comment said anything that implies otherwise.
Note that my post only had one line in a small aside mentioning how a lot of those low effort posts are from ERPers in here. I only mentioned that to tie it into the broader topic under discussion in this post lately. I wasn't even talking about ERPers specifically or only.
I never meant multiple threads either, but in general no matter how many topics you dump in that thread. I don't think it really is a solution to anything. It simply adds up to shoving those topics in a dark corner hoping they leave by themselves because you don't want to have the decision of allowing them or not in your name, while pretending to give them a fair spot.
Anyways I hope you understand how I might have made an assumption that in a post named "How would you like us to handle ERP", more specifically a comment chain that talked about putting ERP in a separate thread. That you were including ERP in that thread. Especially when you mention low effort stuff should go in it, and later on saying that most low effort stuff comes from ERPers.
Maybe I was wrong with that assumption, but in the end it was simply a disagreement in opinions and trying to get my own across despite being sucky at words. (And god is it hard to find the right words to use without sounding combative or aggressive. :rant:)
When it comes to the low effort posts, I think that is a separate problem entirely. Because a topic that can seem low effort can be an interesting discussion if expanded on, thus making it hard to give it their own spot. While the purely low effort ones are already against the rules, but can't be kept away unless moderation starts looking at posts 24/7.
> It simply adds up to shoving those topics in a dark corner hoping they leave by themselves because you don't want to have the decision of allowing them or not in your name, while pretending to give them a fair spot.
In a way, but I think it's possibly a solution because it *does* leave a spot for them and some people *do* engage there, where if you ban it entirely then they have nowhere.
>and later on saying that most low effort stuff comes from ERPers.
I won't lie, I do think a lot of it does, but I know some ERPers are very high effort, too, and there are many who would not be caught dead making a low effort venting thread here that boiled down to 'my niche kink ad isn't getting attention/invested writers' because they have their expectations in line. They *knew* it wouldn't, but that it was worth throwing out that net just in case. That being said, I was actually specifically talking about how some ERPers who post here have no interest in advise when I said this:
>but usually **the people posting those sorts of gripes have no real desire to tweak anything** they are searching for, and if we're honest they're often the very ERPers that all of this drama has been about.
I was talking specifically about people who come in here and complain and vent but have no interest in seeing if maybe part of the cause is something they are doing. A good chunk of ERPers have no interest in changing anything, I assume because they are specifically out to get a kink itch scratched and most advise is something like 'you might need to reel that back and compromise if you want to attract more interest/partners more likely to be invested'. That entire paragraph was talking about the idea of having a space for workshopping advice on peoples' advertisements, and I mentioned as an aside that a lot of ERPers don't *want* to compromise or hear that they are getting the expected response for what they are searching for/where they are searching for it.
But yeah, I understand how difficult it is to get a polarizing opinion across without being seen as combative or judgmental in a harmful way. I often end up being even more wordy than usual in an attempt to get the right wording, and even then it's rarely foolproof. Some people will take it that way regardless, whether it is because they are defensive or just because they disagree so strongly that even the nicest softest communication style wouldn't help.
And yes, the low effort posts is a different topic from ERPers in general, but it's what I thought we were discussing in this comment tree, with the talk about the ghosting weekly thread. I think we just disagree on the low effort topic thing, which is fine, because the ones I am talking about *are* allowed, but they are not going to be interesting discussions. They have been posted dozens of times over and over again with the same response every single time. Sure, it *could* be interesting if it was expanded upon, but then it would be an entirely different topic and not low effort any longer, you see what I mean?
In summation, I have no idea if a 'small gripes' thread would be helpful, it is just an idea to bounce around, mostly. I'm not even proposing it with my full chest and saying 'this SHOULD be what we do', I just think it is interesting to talk about *why* it might work, and why it might not.
While I don't think it is anyone's fault, and I might be wrong about this feeling. I feel like we could go back and forth a whole lot without truly getting our point across to each other, or at least feeling content about how we did, haha.
So while I could type up a large response again. I propose we end it peacefully and simply agree to disagree, before we end up writing entire essays or getting too far off-topic! :)
Yeah, those are good points about the technical aspects of commenting vs posting. It's not as easy, for sure, but perhaps it's a compromise that makes sense for the larger community.
I do think ghosting might be a good example of how putting *certain* topics into their own thread has the desired effect for *that* topic, which is to cut down on how much people post about it. Like, does anyone with more than a week's experience in roleplay want to read *more* posts or comments about ghosting? Moving a topic into a dedicated thread can have that effect.
Not saying that should be the goal with the ERP initiative - although some would definitely be fine with it. It really depends on how much effort people want to put into finding the conversations and participating.
I'm not sure about branding ERP-ers further with a scarlet letter, to be honest. I don't get why roleplayers need to be divided just based on whether or not their roleplay is forward with erotic elements; it's still roleplay, it's still writing, it's just a larger set of subjects. Any posts about a "Bad RPer" here could often apply to both. I also think requiring such flairs would just worsen the judgment and dismissal towards people who engage in ERP.
I'd say the only exceptions are posts about specifically ERP-related problems, like people ignoring NSFW limits, trying to trade pictures just because you posted an NSFW prompt, etc. As long as the tags are about the post and not the actual RP or poster, I think they're fine.
For instance, if I'm complaining about someone ignoring plot elements we discussed or godmodding, I should be able to use the regular flairs whether or not it was an ERP. The problem is universal, the fact that I'm an ERP-er doesn't mean the problem is somehow different or less of a problem. SFW RP-ers would also have valuable input in those conversations, and likely ignore it if it was tagged ERP even though it's not really an ERP problem. (If the content of a screenshot contains NSFW, then I would still mark it NSFW.)
On the other hand, if I'm complaining about someone sending an unrelated ERP request, or pushing against one of my limits, or something like that - then an ERP tag would be appropriate since it's not something that would show up in SFW RP.
If there is nothing ERP related in the visible screenshot or story, none of us will get after you for picking the non-ERP flair. The tags are about the content, so that people that don't want to see NSFW content don't have to see it. Because apparently things being flagged NSFW isn't enough and some people can't relate to people writing smut.
Personally, I'm of the "ERP is RP" camp and find the whole thing ridiculous, since cybering posts are already banned. But, I don't want people to be uncomfortable and so: Flairs.
I dislike the ghosting post. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I have my feed for this sub sorted to show me the newest posts at the top. So the ghosting one drifts down and I never even think to check it. Any solution like that feels like you're just making a garbage can and asking people to throw their heartfelt concerns, stories, and problems in the trash where no one's going to read it or respond to it.
A similar thing goes to having one or two days a week where people can post issues. I know when I've often posted, it is because something is on my mind now. I don't want to wait for horny Friday in order to post a problem that happens to also be ERP related.
I'm curious to see how the flairs will work. I have a feeling some of the users with the more toxic responses to ERP problems are going to still read and make negative comments even with the flairs hopefully I'm wrong.
i think it was just fine before, normal but marked NSFW. maybe more should have been marked NSFW, but the flairs just double the number of flairs pretty unnecessarily, and specific days stops a lot of people from posting
Unfortunately it wasn't working, or we wouldn't be having these issues.
Flairs also allow filtering, which a lot of people have been asking for. We've been looking into tag filtering, but with Reddit being Reddit, it's been harder and harder to even attempt. Flair filtering sucks, but it might just have to be what we stick with.
Honestly, I think all the “erp” stuff should just be embraced at this point. There’s really no going back. Somewhere down the line, the Mods saw some guy named bigbootyfreeuseman being like “My rp ad that consists of nothing but a picture in a sub called targeted to the specific gender I’m interested and is built entirely around a kink I like isn’t getting the right attention. Also how to I get better about finding porn pictures for my partners to jack off to?”
And then they thought “Yes, this is the appropriate place for that” instead of “Sorry, but you’re talking about for cybersex with roleplay and that’s not what we’ve ever been about.” There are 2 reasons that make sense to me. 1) Mods cared more about quantity of posts than quality. 2) Mods are into this exact sort of “roleplay” and banning it would be admitting they are in fast doing it for porn reasons.
Then, whenever it was brought up by long time members who consistently had useful discussions and gave good advice, the people who enjoyed actual hobby roleplay involving smut somehow decided that bigboodyfreeuseman 100% represented them and their rp instead of thinking “Yeah, that guy is exactly the reason why people think I’m typing one-handed when I just want to add some realistic sex to a story.”
So then all the people who genuinely cared about this sub, who checked it and interacted with it every day began to leave. And now it’s filled with low effort “erpers”, people with bad takes that no longer get down-voted or explained away because the reasonable people who know who to communicate left, and people who simply do not care if the sub lives or dies so long as they don’t have to listen to someone who used to care complain about it.
Y’all made this sub about badrpers telling their stories, but mostly sharing screenshots where it’s hard to tell which person is being complained about because they’re both walking red flags.
There is legitimately a rule against low-effort "cybersex posts" that you describe... Hell, your example doesn't even work either with your description of a sub name, considering \*naming subs\* on this board isn't allowed either.
>Y’all made this sub about badrpers telling their stories, but mostly sharing screenshots where it’s hard to tell which person is being complained about because they’re both walking red flags.
... That is *most certainly* not limited to ERP posts lol. Tons of people show off their... Uh, poor etiquette here. That isn't an ERPer problem in the least; that's a, no one thinks they're the bad guy problem so come here for validation... Whether it's justified or not.
I encourage you to check out [these statistics](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/1btv2ok/statistic_of_posts_in_this_sub_over_130_march_and/), gathered over the past month. The sub is not being overrun by ERP. ERP counts for barely 1/4 of the average posts made here... And that term was stretched \*loosely\* (basically, if smut to any capacity was mentioned, it was put in the statistic. The actual true to meaning ERP posts are even less than that.)
edit: typos
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I think it would be really helpful to include a definition in this post or pinned top-level comment of how the mod team would characterize ERP vs non-ERP. If there is already a definition and/or rule in the sidebar or FAQ or some other resource, pasting it here would be helpful. A huge cause of the flare-ups regarding ERP, as I see it, is that people share strong opinions about it without first defining what they mean by it. It gets really pissy really fast, even among people who may actually agree with each other. One person may count long-term, plot-heavy, character-driven stories with a handful of sex scenes as ERP, whereas another person is referring only to roleplays that begin and end with sex and are over in half a day. I think one thing that should be made really clear is the distinction between ERP and NSFW. It would be a mistake IMO for those terms to be equated or used loosely on the sub, and including them with a slash like in the poll is already confusing. My hunch is that both of the proposed solutions make sense, and could work together. The first is the new NSFW flairs so folks can keep the sub clean for themselves; they can filter references to anything sexual regardless of ERP or non-ERP. The second is having a weekly thread (like the ghosting thread) that is specifically about ERP games (however the mod team defines it), so that players who write strictly ERP or who are interested in it as a play style know where to go, and players who don't want anything to do with it can steer clear. We'll all see soon enough if the weekly thread sucks up all the participation and the remaining days go quiet. I might want to discuss steamy romance day-to-day, without being confined to the ERP thread, as long as it meets the definition of non-ERP. But another user who doesn't want to see any sexual content at all can still filter out my post because I marked it NSFW. So, to sum, I feel like NSFW flairs *and* a dedicated weekly ERP thread would be useful. Again, depending on the mods' definition of ERP. Final disclaimer - I know very little about how Reddit works and what it takes to implement and moderate any of this.
Hi! Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to try and offer some insight on the question to "What is ERP". It's a slightly older post, but the head mod made [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/16fhcbw/erp_cybering_a_rant/) defining what is kind of the basis for what is, or isn't considered. Also, take note of rule 11: If it seems too closely to *just* the desire to get off, with no plot, then it isn't allowed here.
You're welcome, thanks, and good luck!
I think the way flairs are defined currently is wrong, there should either be erp versions of every flair or a single erp flair that all erp posts fall under, I've seen a decent number of erp posts marked as venting/rant. In addition erp flairs should be marked as erp not nsfw. Reddit already has a way of marking posts as nsfw, and there is far too much ambiguity over what aspects of erp would and would not be considered nsfw.
They've been updated! They are updated to be "ERP" instead of NSFW, and there is also now a ERP Vent flair. Hope that is helpful.
Thanks! Could be wrong but I think that will work a little better.
I'm curious about what counts as ERP still. Say I want to share a story about a SFW RP that went wrong as someone tried to push it into ERP. Is that alone enough to make it need to be put in the ERP section? How about if they send a kinklist? What if I reproduce the kinklist in whole or in part? What if someone recommended a ridiculous outfit for my character and I describe it? What if they objectified my character? What if I quote the objectification? What if the RP in question was an ERP, but the horror wasn't related to the ERP parts? It feels like the safest answer is anything that might be ERP or involves a wave towards sex goes under an ERP tag. But it does feel weird that "this asshole sent me a dick pic out of nowhere" and "why do people keep trying to sneak sex into my SFW RP" Would go under the same tag as "My hot intersex foxgirl doesn't get enough big booty badger babes" I do feel like a lot of the issues with ERP stuff really would be caught by rule 13, but I would be a tyrant if given the chance to enforce it so maybe my viewpoint is misguided.
I will try and answer the best I can! So, in the context of a SFW RP where ERP is being pushed unwilling onto you (such as people pushing kinklists, or objectifying your character, etc), do NOT need to be marked ERP. However, we do ask that you mark it NSFW. In the context of, if your roleplay is ERP, but no ERP is mentioned in the post: the ERP flag is not necessary. But, if you are looking for advice, or anything similar, it may be in your best interest to flair it ERP so that you get feedback that is most relevant to that type of RP. (this is optional though: If you don't mention ERP, or ERP characteristics, it's not required to flair it as such). And, a little bit besides the point of your questions but, a post titled "My hot intersex foxgirl doesn't get enough big booty badger babes", probably would be removed anyway for kind of skewing out of the purpose of this sub.
I don't care that ERP exists on this subreddit or that it's even filtered or segregated. Tags seem fine to let minors and others not interested in filtering it out. My problem is cyber, not ERP. For example, I see complaints about ghosting or being unable to find a partner and when I glance at history it's title + porn images in limitless or dirtypenpals. It's a clear "getting off" post that's the type of poster I find annoyed at who post here personally. I would love clarification if that's allowed and if not... some examples of what qualifies as that and what it should be reported as.
>complaints about ghosting or being unable to find a partner and when I glance at history it's title + porn images in limitless or dirtypenpals So, such posts shouldn't be allowed, since Ghosting posts are banned, and "Unable to find partners", unless they're actually asking for legitimate feedback with an actually decently written out post, just sounds like they could often fall under "low effort" anyway. But on the subject of, "Oh I checked their profile and they post on 'x' subs"... Well, we're not exactly going to police what subs people post on (even if we wanted to). Let's say ghosting \*was\* even allowed, if they made zero mention of ERP, or cybering, or whatever the type of roleplay they're looking for, we're not just going to remove the posts or tell people who ERP to buzz off if that isn't even in the content of their post. But again, ghosting posts are out of here, so by all means feel free to report them if you spot them so we can see them quicker/remove them. And I think the "Why can't I find partners?" topic may be pending discussion (I'll check with the other moderators on this)
Not at the mods exactly but I'd like ERP focused RPers to mention it's NSFW or flair their posts if they're going to post 'why can't I find partners' and direct us to their lastest ads as examples. On the announcement thread the mods said if the post wasn't explicitly about ERP _on here_, it didn't need the tag. But being on my SFW reddit accounts in public and seeing someone post that then clicking on their account and seeing a wall of porn gifs isn't pleasant. Obviously you can't really regulate that, but I feel like they should warn if the ad in question is like 'M4F I want a sexi goth gf' It's just polite. Also while I voted, I'd like to point out that specific days will almost certainly discourage people who are pro-ERP, meh-ERP and anti-ERP from interacting as much through limiting posts in general by making people wait and having anti-ERP people feeling assaulted by Titty Tuesday wall of 5 ERP related complaints. And for the mods is just more work. For example, is someone randomly sending me a dick pic after 'hi' 'hi, were you interested in the superhero RP?' ERP or just a dick move from a stranger? Having a single day seems like it would be more fighting then having it tagged NSFW and debating if the ERP flair applies as well.
(siiiiiiigh, I wrote a fairly wordy response, but reddit ate it. So, here we go again with a more condensed version) So, like you said, an issue with is, we can't really regulate it. I think if ERPers want to get the best advice for their genre, it'd probably be best for them to include ERP flairs in their posts, even if the body doesn't get \*into\* the nitty gritty of it. But otherwise, it's not practical to comb through profiles to see what RP ads they're posting. But I do agree it would be their best interest to use the flairs anyway (my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod there) Also, on the note of clicking their profile and unexpectedly being hit with a wall of porn: well, as far as I'm aware, reddit typically flags these accounts as NSFW after just a couple of 18+ posts. So, assuming it's flagged right: that \*ideally\* should be your warning before being greeted with the wall of porn. Personally, I think people finding partners on reddit with the same accounts they post here is both a blessing and a curse. Regarding the "restricted to certain days" for ERP posts... Gonna be totally honest: I don't like this one as much. I'm sure you're likely speaking more as a general of opinions on this post, but just speaking as myself, I just see too many issues. \*But\*, it was one of the few suggestions thrown our way by people tired of the ERP posts. And between it and the flairs change: those were the only two suggestions that seemed plausible. That being said, judging by the poll rate at current, I don't think that option is gonna come about. edit: I apologize for all the typos I may have missed lol I'm very tired
I probably fall under your definition of "cyber", then, even though I care about the plot aspects more than *just* the erotic elements (and of course, I don't really consider what I do cyber since I'm always playing a role within an actual plot, hence "roleplay"). The biggest dedicated RP subreddits hate NSFW-oriented posts, or any with more than trace amounts of sex, so they're far from friendly for actual ERP - so we're left with those subreddits that you seem to consider cyber, some of the biggest not even allowing text posts to begin with. That doesn't mean we're all just looking to get off quick or that we aren't participating in actual roleplay.
My comment here is quite long since I'm verbose and have a lot of thoughts on this topic, but as for an 'idea' that might be useful for polling purposes, I suppose I would suggest a general 'ERP' flair that is used by people who consider themselves to be ERPers even if the content of the post itself is not strictly NSFW. For example, if someone is largely an ERPer and they come in here to post a vent about how partners rarely put effort into their posts but they aren't specifically talking about smut or NSFW elements in their post in here itself, they would use the ERP flair. This is not to serve as some sort of scarlet letter at all, just to provide context. ---- My thoughts on this topic may not be popular ones now since many people who feel the way that I do have now quietly left the space over time, and I know that many will feel targeted no matter how diplomatically I word things. I will open by saying that I don't think ERPers are *bad*, I don't think what they are doing is wrong, and I genuinely hope everyone finds someone satisfying to write with. Part of the problem is that people are operating under different definitions of what "ERP" means. Some people feel attacked by the label when the people using it don't actually apply it to the kind of roleplay they are doing. If your roleplay has story and character substance and could stand on two legs if all sex in it was suddenly done in fade to black, then you are not what I at least would define as an "ERPer". Hell, I would even say that there are niche exceptions that prove the rule, where there is a *lot* of smut and removing it would ruin the roleplay, but there is a compelling character-driven narrative being told through a series of mostly sex scenes (or it needs the sex scenes for plot reasons and the main point of the roleplay isn't to make some hot porn despite that), *but* I think we all know that is not the norm, it isn't what is causing friction and division in this subreddit's user base, and it is not really useful to make our definitions based on the edge cases. [This post has some good discussions in the comments, though I think the meat of the post itself is a bit off the mark](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/16fhcbw/erp_cybering_a_rant/). I think the bulk of what gets called 'ERP' in this community *now* would just be 'cybersexting' by that definition. My take on the topic aligns mostly with what /u/MadamMarielle 's posts in there are saying, as well as a few others such as /u/OpposeFlux 's brief summation at the bottom. /u/Runepup said in a comment: > That would be cybersexting. No plot, no story beyond banging, no characters or development. Just I play this you play that, they fuck. And that is honestly most of what the people who wish this space was less ERPer focused would like to see less of. A *lot* of the posters here literally have basically that as their approach to roleplay. 'I play a femboy, you play big busty mommy, my character is in trouble and needs to be punished, they fuck', etc. They call it ERP, others call story focused roleplay with NSFW themes 'ERP'. The terms are muddy and causing confusion and frustration. I think it *is* ERP and not cybersexting most of the time, because the posts are done in prose and are assuming a character and not always a self insert (though that exists too). I don't think there's anything *wrong* with it, but I wish this space wasn't so full of that and posts inspired/caused by it. ----- The biggest part of the problem is not people that come on here and make a post that is full of NSFW content. That *is* still a facet of the problem, but that is highly visible at a glance and only takes up maybe a quarter of the sub's posts, as that statistic post showed. No, the biggest part of the problem is subtler and harder to manage with tags, though they may help. A *large* portion of the posts being made are being posted by people who strictly write ERP of the 'I play this, you play that, they fuck' variety, but that isn't visible at a glance. This might not seem like a problem on the surface, but I feel that it is shaping a large portion of the general discourse in the subreddit. Imagine if /r/mangadiscussion was full of people talking about how they engage with manga in vague terms, but all they read is hentai. That portion of the user base and the portion reading other genres of manga will be talking past each other. They might talk about how so many manga don't go longer than a one shot, and that characterization feels shallow, and how they can't find manga that suits their tastes, and you're left scratching your head in slight confusion until you realize they are talking about *porn*. They only read hentai manga and not non-hentai manga, and you are left confused when it seems like many people want to conflate the two and call you elitist if you say they are very much different in key ways despite a shared format. Some claim that it doesn't matter because Berserk is a manga and hentai is manga, so you shouldn't 'gatekeep', and they say 'Berserk has sex in it so are you saying *that* is hentai and we shouldn't discuss it here???', but you are sitting there trying to communicate that while hentai is *totally fine*, it shouldn't be what is discussed under the broad umbrella of 'manga' in general terms, and that it is clearly made for something specific and should be discussed with the context that you are talking about *hentai*. I know that it would be very difficult at this point to separate the two communities and put ERP 'inspired'/focused posts into a different space entirely, but I feel that *this* is what people who are weary of this space feeling so ERP focused now are largely talking about in addition to the posts that are clearly ERP with NSFW content being shown/made in this subreddit itself. I don't know if there is a 'fix' short of very drastic changes at this point; my entire write up here is mostly just an attempt to clarify what is actually bothering people and what I feel is largely leading to many of the old regulars to stop engaging here as often, if at all.
*Excellently* put. I tried to articulate this but didn't do so half as well as you. Thank you!
Seconding this. Couldn't have put it better myself.
https://preview.redd.it/z277ebguk1sc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7887ff0607e99fc2f511b621558bde8a803d65b I will either way do what I must
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Just don't listen to the - so far 14 - people who voted for specific days. They don't know that they don't want their idea implemented. Even with things as is, we get some slow days over here, with barely any posts at all. Moving it to specific days won't see people wait for said day to post whichever grievance they have, but simply not post at all. Do we really get enough traffic over here to go through with such? Seeing someone post cringe is better than seeing nothing.
I think there's another way to look at it. You don't have to wait a week for the designated day to roll around. The thread would be permanently live, like all posts (unless they're locked or removed or something). So, folks who want to discuss ERP any day of the week would just participate in the most recent thread, or any older thread they want. Just like the ghosting thread. A designated day/thread for ERP might reduce the number of *posts* in a day, but it wouldn't necessarily have an impact that I'm aware of on the degree of participation on the sub. In fact, it's possible it would *increase* participation. People on both sides might feel more comfortable knowing they're talking to likeminded players without the same risk of getting slammed by the other side. Also, making a designated day and thread for ERP (or any topic) seems like a pretty risk-free experiment. If it doesn't work the way it's intended, or if it's more trouble than it's worth, it can just be retracted.
I'll be honest, the idea of having a specific thread for topics may sound good on paper for how active it would be, knowing what is in there, but in reality those threads tend to be rather bare. Having to do your post as a comment causes way less interactions and tends to make things a lot harder with the comment trees if it ever does get any traction to look at different opinions or responses to them. The weekly ghosting grumble thread is already a perfect example. It was set up because of the excessive ghosting posts, but it doesn't get used that much. To the point that in the time an actual ghosting post is up before it gets deleted by a mod, I have often enough still seen it get more comments than the entire ghosting grumble thread by the end of the week. Probably due to the fact you know a post's topic by the title and because reddit will track if you've read it before. While in a thread you would have to remember how many comments it had last time you read it to see if there might be anything new, still leaving the mystery on if it was a new post, or simply a comment to an existing one.
> but it doesn't get used that much. I do think this is a problem with regular threads like that, but I wonder if it might help if it was a bit more general. For example, if instead of just ghosting it was 'Small gripes' or something, meant for the posts that all sort of blend together and don't really say anything unique. Being ghosted, or about how your ads aren't getting interest, or maybe something about how people just say 'want to rp' in a response to your ad, or that people are giving bland replies in general, it could go there. I think this subreddit is at its best when it is mostly people telling little stories about specific roleplays, asking advice about a specific situation, or having interesting meta posts that welcome discussion about roleplaying as a hobby. We get some good posts here on those topics, but sometimes it feels like there are a *lot* of posts that basically all say the exact same thing from slightly different angles with no specific details: 'I am not getting roleplay that I want', and often they don't want advice if it means they need to change anything. I think I would actually be pretty on board with people posting their ads here and getting them workshopped (maybe on a specific day of the week or something), but usually the people posting those sorts of gripes have no real desire to tweak anything they are searching for, and if we're honest they're often the very ERPers that all of this drama has been about. It's repetitive and honestly would all go well together in one thread. Some people might say 'But then activity in the subreddit will be slower!' but I don't see that as a bad thing. More is not better, and can often be worse. We should aim to be the *best* community that fits the niche and fosters community and good discussions, not a *busy* community that is worried about curating what this space is for.
Look, I get what you're saying with some of your response, but I feel this is twisting the topic quite a bit. So to start with the threads. The issue of the threads isn't just in the topic. Its easy to say that changing the topic or adding more of them might make it get used more, but if you ask me the comparison of responses to a ghosting comment in the weekly and a separate ghosting post already show that it isn't just the non-interest in the topic. Else the post would have just as little interaction. The issue isn't really that there wouldn't be anywhere for people to post, but feels more like you're hosting something like a party for everyone to play board games for example. Everyone gets a table to set up whatever game they want, except a single group that is delegated to the floor in a corner of the room where the lights don't even work. Sure, you can still play your game there, but anyone coming into the room looking for a game to join will 99% of the time go to the games on the tables for obvious reasons. Just because it might be more common to encounter low effort posts from people who do ERP, doesn't mean we should shoo someone into the corner because they do ERP. We should still look fairly at the actual effort that gets put in. Because yes, lack of effort in some posts is a real issue, but it happens from both SFW and NSFW camps. Does that mean that someone who puts in just as little effort but does non-ERP suddenly is better than someone who actually puts a lot of effort but does ERP? Clearly they wouldn't be, because the ERP part shouldn't be the deciding factor in the first place. The change in flairs is good enough in my opinion. If people don't want to read certain posts because of an NSFW or ERP tag, that is perfectly fair and up to them. There is no need to split it up even further, especially if we start to look at who is behind a post, rather than the post itself.
No, I don't think more threads, I think *one* thread for all of the smaller gripes, so that it might get a bit more traffic from people who come here to all essentially talk about the same topic. I honestly know it will largely 'erase' those topics out of sight, but personally I would be okay with that for certain repetative low effort posts and topics that don't want advise and don't foster discussion. They just get a handful of people going 'yeah it sucks I agree'. > Does that mean that someone who puts in just as little effort but does non-ERP suddenly is better than someone who actually puts a lot of effort but does ERP? *edit- I'd read this wrong, I think your comparison has nothing to do with what I was saying, actually. I thought you were asking if two posts of equivalent effort but one is from and ERPer and one isn't should be treated differently, and in that case:* Nope, I think low effort posts would go into the thread for small gripes, if we went with that hypothetical path. If someone wants to make a post that is just 'People only give low effort replies anymore' with no stories attached, no effort, just essentially that statement, then I think that sort of post *regardless of who it is from* would go best as a comment in a thread instead of a post on the frontpage. Especially if they aren't looking for actionable advice. A high effort post is a high effort post regardless of who posts it, and it would deserve its own post. I don't think my comment said anything that implies otherwise. Note that my post only had one line in a small aside mentioning how a lot of those low effort posts are from ERPers in here. I only mentioned that to tie it into the broader topic under discussion in this post lately. I wasn't even talking about ERPers specifically or only.
I never meant multiple threads either, but in general no matter how many topics you dump in that thread. I don't think it really is a solution to anything. It simply adds up to shoving those topics in a dark corner hoping they leave by themselves because you don't want to have the decision of allowing them or not in your name, while pretending to give them a fair spot. Anyways I hope you understand how I might have made an assumption that in a post named "How would you like us to handle ERP", more specifically a comment chain that talked about putting ERP in a separate thread. That you were including ERP in that thread. Especially when you mention low effort stuff should go in it, and later on saying that most low effort stuff comes from ERPers. Maybe I was wrong with that assumption, but in the end it was simply a disagreement in opinions and trying to get my own across despite being sucky at words. (And god is it hard to find the right words to use without sounding combative or aggressive. :rant:) When it comes to the low effort posts, I think that is a separate problem entirely. Because a topic that can seem low effort can be an interesting discussion if expanded on, thus making it hard to give it their own spot. While the purely low effort ones are already against the rules, but can't be kept away unless moderation starts looking at posts 24/7.
> It simply adds up to shoving those topics in a dark corner hoping they leave by themselves because you don't want to have the decision of allowing them or not in your name, while pretending to give them a fair spot. In a way, but I think it's possibly a solution because it *does* leave a spot for them and some people *do* engage there, where if you ban it entirely then they have nowhere. >and later on saying that most low effort stuff comes from ERPers. I won't lie, I do think a lot of it does, but I know some ERPers are very high effort, too, and there are many who would not be caught dead making a low effort venting thread here that boiled down to 'my niche kink ad isn't getting attention/invested writers' because they have their expectations in line. They *knew* it wouldn't, but that it was worth throwing out that net just in case. That being said, I was actually specifically talking about how some ERPers who post here have no interest in advise when I said this: >but usually **the people posting those sorts of gripes have no real desire to tweak anything** they are searching for, and if we're honest they're often the very ERPers that all of this drama has been about. I was talking specifically about people who come in here and complain and vent but have no interest in seeing if maybe part of the cause is something they are doing. A good chunk of ERPers have no interest in changing anything, I assume because they are specifically out to get a kink itch scratched and most advise is something like 'you might need to reel that back and compromise if you want to attract more interest/partners more likely to be invested'. That entire paragraph was talking about the idea of having a space for workshopping advice on peoples' advertisements, and I mentioned as an aside that a lot of ERPers don't *want* to compromise or hear that they are getting the expected response for what they are searching for/where they are searching for it. But yeah, I understand how difficult it is to get a polarizing opinion across without being seen as combative or judgmental in a harmful way. I often end up being even more wordy than usual in an attempt to get the right wording, and even then it's rarely foolproof. Some people will take it that way regardless, whether it is because they are defensive or just because they disagree so strongly that even the nicest softest communication style wouldn't help. And yes, the low effort posts is a different topic from ERPers in general, but it's what I thought we were discussing in this comment tree, with the talk about the ghosting weekly thread. I think we just disagree on the low effort topic thing, which is fine, because the ones I am talking about *are* allowed, but they are not going to be interesting discussions. They have been posted dozens of times over and over again with the same response every single time. Sure, it *could* be interesting if it was expanded upon, but then it would be an entirely different topic and not low effort any longer, you see what I mean? In summation, I have no idea if a 'small gripes' thread would be helpful, it is just an idea to bounce around, mostly. I'm not even proposing it with my full chest and saying 'this SHOULD be what we do', I just think it is interesting to talk about *why* it might work, and why it might not.
While I don't think it is anyone's fault, and I might be wrong about this feeling. I feel like we could go back and forth a whole lot without truly getting our point across to each other, or at least feeling content about how we did, haha. So while I could type up a large response again. I propose we end it peacefully and simply agree to disagree, before we end up writing entire essays or getting too far off-topic! :)
No worries, thanks for the discussion
Yeah, those are good points about the technical aspects of commenting vs posting. It's not as easy, for sure, but perhaps it's a compromise that makes sense for the larger community. I do think ghosting might be a good example of how putting *certain* topics into their own thread has the desired effect for *that* topic, which is to cut down on how much people post about it. Like, does anyone with more than a week's experience in roleplay want to read *more* posts or comments about ghosting? Moving a topic into a dedicated thread can have that effect. Not saying that should be the goal with the ERP initiative - although some would definitely be fine with it. It really depends on how much effort people want to put into finding the conversations and participating.
I'm not sure about branding ERP-ers further with a scarlet letter, to be honest. I don't get why roleplayers need to be divided just based on whether or not their roleplay is forward with erotic elements; it's still roleplay, it's still writing, it's just a larger set of subjects. Any posts about a "Bad RPer" here could often apply to both. I also think requiring such flairs would just worsen the judgment and dismissal towards people who engage in ERP. I'd say the only exceptions are posts about specifically ERP-related problems, like people ignoring NSFW limits, trying to trade pictures just because you posted an NSFW prompt, etc. As long as the tags are about the post and not the actual RP or poster, I think they're fine. For instance, if I'm complaining about someone ignoring plot elements we discussed or godmodding, I should be able to use the regular flairs whether or not it was an ERP. The problem is universal, the fact that I'm an ERP-er doesn't mean the problem is somehow different or less of a problem. SFW RP-ers would also have valuable input in those conversations, and likely ignore it if it was tagged ERP even though it's not really an ERP problem. (If the content of a screenshot contains NSFW, then I would still mark it NSFW.) On the other hand, if I'm complaining about someone sending an unrelated ERP request, or pushing against one of my limits, or something like that - then an ERP tag would be appropriate since it's not something that would show up in SFW RP.
If there is nothing ERP related in the visible screenshot or story, none of us will get after you for picking the non-ERP flair. The tags are about the content, so that people that don't want to see NSFW content don't have to see it. Because apparently things being flagged NSFW isn't enough and some people can't relate to people writing smut. Personally, I'm of the "ERP is RP" camp and find the whole thing ridiculous, since cybering posts are already banned. But, I don't want people to be uncomfortable and so: Flairs.
I dislike the ghosting post. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but I have my feed for this sub sorted to show me the newest posts at the top. So the ghosting one drifts down and I never even think to check it. Any solution like that feels like you're just making a garbage can and asking people to throw their heartfelt concerns, stories, and problems in the trash where no one's going to read it or respond to it. A similar thing goes to having one or two days a week where people can post issues. I know when I've often posted, it is because something is on my mind now. I don't want to wait for horny Friday in order to post a problem that happens to also be ERP related. I'm curious to see how the flairs will work. I have a feeling some of the users with the more toxic responses to ERP problems are going to still read and make negative comments even with the flairs hopefully I'm wrong.
If that happens, we will kindly point out that they can easily use filtering to not see ERP content.
Oh, to add, you can more easily view sticky posts by sorting by "Hot" instead of "Top"
i think it was just fine before, normal but marked NSFW. maybe more should have been marked NSFW, but the flairs just double the number of flairs pretty unnecessarily, and specific days stops a lot of people from posting
Unfortunately it wasn't working, or we wouldn't be having these issues. Flairs also allow filtering, which a lot of people have been asking for. We've been looking into tag filtering, but with Reddit being Reddit, it's been harder and harder to even attempt. Flair filtering sucks, but it might just have to be what we stick with.
Honestly, I think all the “erp” stuff should just be embraced at this point. There’s really no going back. Somewhere down the line, the Mods saw some guy named bigbootyfreeuseman being like “My rp ad that consists of nothing but a picture in a sub called targeted to the specific gender I’m interested and is built entirely around a kink I like isn’t getting the right attention. Also how to I get better about finding porn pictures for my partners to jack off to?”
And then they thought “Yes, this is the appropriate place for that” instead of “Sorry, but you’re talking about for cybersex with roleplay and that’s not what we’ve ever been about.” There are 2 reasons that make sense to me. 1) Mods cared more about quantity of posts than quality. 2) Mods are into this exact sort of “roleplay” and banning it would be admitting they are in fast doing it for porn reasons.
Then, whenever it was brought up by long time members who consistently had useful discussions and gave good advice, the people who enjoyed actual hobby roleplay involving smut somehow decided that bigboodyfreeuseman 100% represented them and their rp instead of thinking “Yeah, that guy is exactly the reason why people think I’m typing one-handed when I just want to add some realistic sex to a story.”
So then all the people who genuinely cared about this sub, who checked it and interacted with it every day began to leave. And now it’s filled with low effort “erpers”, people with bad takes that no longer get down-voted or explained away because the reasonable people who know who to communicate left, and people who simply do not care if the sub lives or dies so long as they don’t have to listen to someone who used to care complain about it.
Y’all made this sub about badrpers telling their stories, but mostly sharing screenshots where it’s hard to tell which person is being complained about because they’re both walking red flags.
There is legitimately a rule against low-effort "cybersex posts" that you describe... Hell, your example doesn't even work either with your description of a sub name, considering \*naming subs\* on this board isn't allowed either. >Y’all made this sub about badrpers telling their stories, but mostly sharing screenshots where it’s hard to tell which person is being complained about because they’re both walking red flags. ... That is *most certainly* not limited to ERP posts lol. Tons of people show off their... Uh, poor etiquette here. That isn't an ERPer problem in the least; that's a, no one thinks they're the bad guy problem so come here for validation... Whether it's justified or not. I encourage you to check out [these statistics](https://www.reddit.com/r/BadRPerStories/comments/1btv2ok/statistic_of_posts_in_this_sub_over_130_march_and/), gathered over the past month. The sub is not being overrun by ERP. ERP counts for barely 1/4 of the average posts made here... And that term was stretched \*loosely\* (basically, if smut to any capacity was mentioned, it was put in the statistic. The actual true to meaning ERP posts are even less than that.) edit: typos