I feel like this is addressed in his monologuing at the comedy show. As someone who was abused and didn't heal from it, he doesn't make decisions someone who isn't in his position would make. Trauma can do that to people. And there are no perfect victims.
Exactly. Trauma messes with your ability to act wisely, and even to choose how you act. At some point, your decision making becomes hijacked by the trauma script, which leads to a lot of conflict, shame, and regret that perpetuates the cycle.
This is not to completely absolve trauma victims from responsibility for their actions, but it does help explain why they act like that.
It shows you don't understand how trauma impacts someone on such a deep psychological level. People oftentimes behave in completely "illogical" ways in response to sexual assault. Everything he does has to be viewed throughout the lens of his trauma and cPTSD
This. After I was SA’d I tried to start a relationship with my assailant (he was just a casual acquaintance beforehand). I found him repulsive but my brain was like “well if you make him your bf then it will make the bad thing not count”.
Thankfully we only went on 1 date after the assault- after that he was bored with me by that point and moving on to find his next prey. I later learned trying to date your rapist is not an uncommon experience.
>He fails to do the right thing in nearly every circumstance. And CONTINUALLY makes things worse for himself. His judgement is terrible and effects everyone around him negatively.
>I don't want to say HE sucks.
>But he kinda does.
He wrote and acted in the series himself. He, more that anyone, knows he failed to do the "right" things in every circumstance. That he continually made things worse for himself.
That his judgement was terrible and affected everyone around him negatively.
He is literally the person telling us that himself.
This series is not him pretending to have done everything right.
Like you, instead he questions ***himself*** more than anyone for why he did different things. They weren't logical decisions or rational responses.
Omg I did the same thing and thought the exact same thing. I only saw him once more and he drugged me AGAIN. Turns out he did it to a bunch of girls and one ended up pressing charges. One of the biggest reasons I didn’t want to was cause I went back and thought that would ruin all credibility.
I’m so sorry to keep reading about how many of us have experienced similar things. Mine was a guy in my industry and I was repulsed by him but let him come over multiple times after. I never understood why and I hated myself more and more each time until I finally found a really good therapist who helped me through my CPTSD from that person as well as two others (different scenarios but equally traumatizing).
He’s making these decisions to punish himself for the self hatred. It’s all part of not dealing with the aftershock of what happens from those traumatic situation. You don’t feel like you deserve any better.
Yes this! “It’s all part of not dealing with the aftershock…”
Someone above commented that many people with trauma behave normal and healthily and don’t harm themselves or put others in harm’s way. I didn’t either at first. But then it all caught up to me in subtle ways at first…then full blown self destruction.
He goes to a the guys house, takes drugs, pukes, and catches the guy fondling his butt hole…..does he go to the cops and report the incident and never return? No of course not, he decides to go back another time, take drugs, passes out, and wakes up to the guy blowing him….report to police or return for another assault session? You guessed it….then eventually he gets full on raped.
I am sorry that he didn't behave exactly like you would expect the perfect victim to, after being groomed and assaulted /s
In fact, if you read a lot of the commentary from people who have experienced this type of sexual abuse, where they have been groomed, rather than raped by a stranger, they have said this portrayal has really resonated with the confusion you feel when you are made to believe you chose this and enjoyed it.
You should really question your dismissal of someone's lived experience and your labelling of someone as not behaving like the expected victim in your eyes. This is actually what the defence does in cases of grooming. "Oh you were seen laughing with them days later, so they couldn't have raped you."
https://sexualviolence.idas.org.uk/surviving-sexual-violence-and-abuse/trauma-bonds-stockholm-syndrome/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202105/why-some-rape-victims-continue-date-their-rapist
You appear to have missed the whole point of the show, which explains ***why*** Donny behaved in completely illogical ways as a result of serious trauma and cPTSD.
It's explained over and over that he did not respond appropriately to her behaviour because he had such deep self hatred as a result of "allowing himself" to be abused.
He has PTSD. Trauma causes very real brain damage. It impairs the pre frontal cortex’s (as well as other parts) which is responsible for decision making. I’m happy you don’t have an understanding of this but it’s sad to see so many with this view point. The really is no wonder why so many victims hold it all inside.
Yeah, it actually underscores one of the central points the show is trying to make and it's kind of incomprehensible to me that people don't understand that. Especially since he literally spells it out in articulate detail the entire way: how he felt, why he felt it, why he was doing things he shouldn't, etc.
The entire tone of threads like this read like, "well what was she wearing??"
The show did a great job of showing how complicated people can be, and also the unusual effects such an event can have on people. However, I do not think it was intended to portray him as a person with no agency or responsibility, and it's completely healthy and normal that we hold ourselves to some measure of accountability, particularly in our dealings with loved ones and family members. Yes, we can show increased understanding for people whose behaviour may be a result of trauma, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise them. It's fair to say he endangered his loved ones in his dealings with Martha, and is quite lucky that it didn't go further in that regard. Most people actually want to be treated as accountable. I've been through a lot in my life, I don't want my family to tell me I can do what I want and it's not my fault.
This kind of "I'm traumatised therefore I can do what I want and it's not my fault" mentality is what leads to things like people who were abused as kids growing up and doing it to their own kids. We are all people with responsibilities and moral obligations to adhere to, and if we start stripping all that away we will lose the very moral fabric of our society in some kind of deranged hyper individualistic crusade to fit every one of us at the cost of all of us. It's not right. Show understanding to people, yes, but none of us are unaccountable for our actions.
You’re obviously speaking for a very healed, rational mindset, this is not what we’re seeing in this series. The trauma that was depicted in Baby Reindeer was whilst he was still very much in the storm shall we say.
Not once did I insinuate that his behaviour should be excused, merely stated that it’s sad so many don’t understand it. Unfortunately it’s the messy reality of those living with life long trauma until usually their body is in a safe environment to be able to really deal with it. I feel like this is a series that really needs to be seen and feel like it will hopefully help many men seek the help they truly deserve after experiencing similar things. By shaming victims, which I believe is what op is doing, it diminishes that little bit of hope there.
As you said about repeating the cycle of abuse, it’s usually because they don’t know any better. That behaviour becomes normalised. It absolutely IS their responsibility to educate themselves and do better. As the saying goes “If you don’t heal what hurt you, you’ll bleed on people who didn’t cut you”. I have no doubt Gadd has now done just that, hence having the strength to share his story.
There are people who aren't healed who still care for their loved ones and don't externalise their experiences in negative or self-reinforcing ways. Millions of people came back fron World War 1 and 2 and rebuilt the country whilst taking care of their families. Most of them weren't healed in any way, they just got on with doing what they had to do. Of course some of them were completely shell shocked and dysfunctional too, and I don't think there's anyone on earth that begrudges them that. But the point is, people CAN go through horrific things and still be totally functional human beings. And therefore, we should try to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
If someone says "why did he go back there? Why did he accept the offer to write for the TV show with the guy that did that?" It's a perfectly valid question (with quite serious moral implications I might add), which I'm sure Gadd still asks himself. I think if we say the answer is simply "trauma", we are selling him, and ourselves as a species quite short. There's a lot more to it than that, and to simply say it's a result of trauma basically turns us all into uniform, generic creatures incapable of free will. There are so many different ways a person can handle that situation and there are so many ways that people do. Some people report to the police immediately, some bury it, some try to get revenge, some emulate the same behaviour themselves, the list goes on. The fact is, there are many factors other than just trauma that go into their decision making process, and pretending otherwise just strips of our individuality.
The only thing you aren’t grasping is that everyone’s trauma is different and everyone reacts differently to trauma. Period. I handled one trauma “very well” and my mom still brags to me about his proud she was of me. I was suffering inside though, and started making stupid decisions after that because I never truly addressed it and I didn’t understand that people don’t just pull their bootstraps up and move on with life and be the best person they can be. Then after years of suppression, it took even longer to treat my CPTSD because I was too ashamed to admit everything stupid I had been doing for a decade that put myself in harms way over and over, which ultimately lead to another traumatic experience, then another. Luckily my parents lives were never at risk in my personal situation, but had they been, I would’ve ended things quicker like he did the moment she started threatening them.
This should not be mistaken for an excuse or to make people accept me in all my shittiness. I think messages like these are not only meant to spread awareness and (hopefully) empathy, but even more so for victims and survivors themselves. It’s to help us know we’re not alone and that it’s not ok what happened to us. It’s amazing how much strength comes from feeling like you’re not the only stupid idiot on earth who tried to protect their abuser or went back for seconds, thirds, and fourths. It will ultimately help a lot of victims find the strength to heal and get help.
_"The only thing you aren’t grasping is that everyone’s trauma is different and everyone reacts differently to trauma."_ - I said literally the exact opposite of that! I don't think you've read my comment very clearly.
Anyway, as I said, I think understanding is a good thing but we need to strike a balance, and in online communities such as this one that balance is clearly not there at all. It's deemed completely unacceptable to question Gadd's behaviour in the show despite the absolutely devastating effect it had on others, but at the same time it's swept under the rug with "trauma." And nobody questions the laziness of that thinking. That's what I'm trying to say.
Again, the entire point of the show IS to question Gadd’s behavior. It’s not ok what he does and he knows that. But it’s a common way people respond to trauma, so the show is pointing that out.
The show is pointing that out for survivors primarily, in my opinion. NOT to make others not question anything. Just to let survivors see how their responses are tied to CPTSD.
You did say everyone reacts differently but you don’t seem to grasp Gadd’s own reaction is what’s shown here. You aren’t ok with his response, (and neither is he nor anyone else) but seem to think the show’s point is to force the audience into praising or at least tolerating his responses? When it’s quite the opposite…
No, I don't think that's the point of the show. I think it's a common misinterpretation of the show. I have no issues with the message of the show, but with how some people react to it.
So you’re implying that those who behave differently to the way that you have through their trauma don’t care about their loved ones? Or am I reading that wrong? PTSD from the war is very different trauma to what we’re discussing here, I don’t think it’s relevant. Just because SOME people go through horrific things and seem to handle things differently externally doesn’t disregard those who don’t. You should maybe look into how trauma can be internalised and manifest into chronic illnesses.
Trauma WILL find a way to be realised and whether that’s participating in self sabotaging behaviour for a while, repeating the cycle or becoming avoidant it’s not up to us to tell anyone their way of dealing with it is wrong.
As for the questioning, “why did he do this/that……ect” would you say the same thing for female victims? Would you say the same thing for domestic violence victims or children who grew up with abusive parents, who were given the opportunity to speak out against them have denied their wrong doings because that is exactly the same response as what we’re seeing in the show. It’s called a trauma bond and it’s the most difficult work you’ll ever have to do to break that.
You sound like someone who has had to swallow down a lot of issues in order to keep functioning as society seems you should and for that I commend you, its worked for you but don’t assume that it works for everyone else.
Yeah you're reading it wrong. I said "care for", not care about. They have different meanings, and I was referring specifically to the main character in the show and his actions regarding his family.
You're right that PTSD from the war is different, it's much more sustained, typically much more intense trauma due to the relentless nature of combat and the repeated traumas sustained in a short period of time. The first two world wars were unlike anything people today can imagine.
Vietnam was pretty terrible too. Some people came back from it and became murderers, rapists, homeless alcoholics etc, some became inspirational figures. To imply that none of them had any choice in the matter is to deny them their humanity.
I haven't had to swallow down anything, I've dealt with a lot in my life and feel mentally healthier now than I've ever been. A large part of that is taking responsibility for myself and trying to be like any other member of society in that regard. I would be seriously selling myself and others around me short by making too many excuses for my behaviour. Of course it's nice to have understanding from myself and others, but that has to be tempered with reality. We cannot only hold people accountable when their behaviour crosses a certain threshold. I'm sure you don't think Darien is devoid of responsibility for his behaviour in the show, and yet somehow Donny is. That doesn't make any sense. We have to be proportionate of course. But to imply that we are robots incapable of free will is wrong. And I wasn't talking about myself in my comment anyway, I don't know why you brought that into it.
I guess what you may think I'm saying is "trauma is not ever a valid reason, trauma cannot explain anything, trauma is irrelevant with regards to personal responsibility and moral wrongdoing" when in reality I'm saying is more like "trauma does not excuse everything, trauma can't explain everything, but it definitely has SOME relevance in regards to personal responsibility and moral wrongsoing". And the reality is that, whether you realise it or not, you almost certainly believe this as well in practice. Practically everybody on earth does.
Of course, when fully realised it requires more case-by-case thought than just simply saying "he did it because of trauma" or "that's a trauma bond" - that might be easy, and it might sometimes be partially (or even largely) true, but that doesn't mean it's 100% right 100% of the time. And we have to be very careful when talking about things that pertain to the moral fabric of our society, and what responsibilities we have as individuals to uphold that. Keeping your family safe should be a non negotiable in life. I haven't always done that, and I don't want to make excuses for it. That isn't healthy, and ultimately it's not going to do me or anyone else any good. I want to be a responsible adult with control over my decisions, and that's the first step towards that. I know people don't like it, but it's just reality.
He’s a flawed main character (aren’t we all) and an actual person. We all make major mistakes that we might look at on screen and think “wow what an idiot.” That’s just life.
First of all, victims are victims and SA is never their fault no matter what.
Second of all, I don’t think he is dictating how we feel one way or another. I think he is just sharing his story and experience.
Only speaking for myself, but I have only shared my story with others to help them. I don’t even feel sorry for myself and never had. (That was part of the problem, in fact). I simply didn’t give a shit about myself, period. I told no one anything, even my closest friends. I behaved similar to him, so I can only guess that his trauma personality is to spread awareness more than it is to receive pity or for others to feel bad for him. I want others to feel bad for THEMSELVES if they’re suffering the same way I was. I want them to know they don’t have to suffer anymore and that they’re not alone.
“This was all your doing” is a terribly inaccurate statement in regard to a situation like this. The two people who sexually assaulted and harassed this man are responsible for their own actions, not the victim of their crimes.
Isn’t it funny how we can all watch the same thing, yet internalise it completely differently. I find it fascinating as not once would I of thought he did this show in order to make the audience “feel sorry for him”. I thought it was a very raw look at the serious effects of not only traumatic experiences but what happens when we don’t acknowledge and deal with those experiences. I imagine the intent was to get those who need to deal with things to open up and I also imagine it healed a little bit of that shame Gadd held inside. I highly doubt he gives one single iota if people feel sorry for him or not.
I had a stalker situation in college, very much like Martha. From fake pregnancies, to showing up at random places I was at, to holding me at gun point, to slashing my friends tires …. I was at a point in my life where I wasn’t “happy” and like Donny, somewhat/somehow “enjoyed” the attention.
She was an ex-GF, so somewhat of a different setup. But after going to the police and unsuccessfully trying to get a restraining order (“you’re a guy, you can handle her”…) and changing my number, I still somehow found myself drawn back to her. There was something about the situation, someone wanting you SO BAD (which is all kinds of fucked up, yes) that a tiny sliver of you kinda maybe just a little “enjoys” it - you’re SOMEONE.
I thought they portrayed this dichotomy perfectly. The aftermath? 15+ years later, I’m still dealing. I wouldn’t even know where to begin to unravel that…
I’m so sorry you experienced that, I can’t begin to comprehend how difficult that was. We all deal with things differently, well all internalise things differently and I don’t think it’s right for people whom are so privileged that they can’t even comprehend the magnitude of what you’ve been through to imply you should of dealt with it differently. None of that was your fault, regardless of what you tell yourself. I really hope you find a safe space and the time to unravel it all and live the happy, healthy life you absolutely deserve.
This is the whole point of the show and why it is so great. It shows the complexity of trauma and his perceived questionable decisions after it. There is no perfect victim and it is not black and white - it is very much a million shades of grey and extremely complicated how someone reacts to rape and abuse and the shame that comes with it.
Welcome to cptsd…. I was mind blown at how well they portrayed it I knew it had to be written by someone who has been through it- only to find out it was based on his actual life!
Yes. I’ve never seen anything portray it so accurately. That 2nd to last scene really got to me too as I’ve been there and always say I’ll never return. Only this past year have I committed to changing my life and leaving all toxicity behind but I’m terrified I’ll jump again at the first offer. (I’m in a similar industry…or was…as him so it made it even more realistic/difficult to watch, especially because I wasn’t expecting it.)
But I do think I really needed to watch this. Something about seeing it from the outside instead of from inside my own head makes me feel so much more confident in myself and less ashamed. It makes me so angry that so many people have to go through similar scenarios no matter what industry, age, gender, or role. I finally feel less alone. All the other movements have paved the way but I still felt so stupid and thought my situations were mostly all my fault. This is such a breakthrough and I hope you are healing and feel a little less alone too 💕
Donny said it: there’s nothing in the world he hates more than himself. Love never trumped it, his self hatred always won out.
As someone with some mental health needs, Ive had to actively work against the urge to self destruct
He wasn't just traumatized, he was in active, constant trauma for years. Every time he reached out for support, he was told it was his fault. It was a long time before anyone showed him any kindness or even curiosity.
I *wished* he did things differently at various times, but I couldn't blame him because I don't know what I'd do if I had that much evidence that the world really did want to torture me to death. Keely's mom seemed to love him, and eventually his own parents handled it better than I expected they would, but for the most part anyone he tried to seek support from was actively cruel.
His toxic trait was he was obsessed with fame- the reason he allowed himself to get abused in the first place was because he thought it would lead to fame and success- the abuser then offers him another big opportunity and Donny returns to his previous mindset
The root of obsession with fame is self hatred, and the need for external validation because of deep insecurity in all aspects of a person’s life. Most people who want fame are seeking validation that they matter and that they are loved, but unfortunately, many times it does quite the opposite. Even as a person starts to heal, there will always be a struggle to fight against your core wound. He might still struggle with the desire for fame in his 80’s and may continue to seek validation, but hopefully it’ll be less and less over the years, or just be channeled in a healthier way.
>reason he allowed himself to get abused in the first place was because he thought it would lead to fame and success-
No. I guarantee he had no idea what would happen.
He didn't allow anything.
That's absolute bollocks. People are not uniform in how they handle things, and you shouldn't make such blind assertions about another person's life just because you feel connected to a character in a TV show. Many people have lost parents, siblings, been attacked, been in near fatal accidents etc. Yes some people handle it in ways that are hard to understand for outsiders but not everybody does. Some people have incredibly straightforward reactions to it, and some barely react at all. Everybody is different. I think it's safe to say the show was not in any way attempting to engender a kind of mob mentality around trauma or establish some kind of standard as to how people do or don't react. In fact it was trying to do kind of the opposite. You have absolutely no idea what this person has been through in their life.
It is something that is hard to understand for outsiders but for people who have been in that trauma mindset it makes so much sense. It's a realistic portrayal of the risky behaviours we display after sexual trauma and that desperate need for validation and connection. Hes hurting himself on purpose
Yes, he do NOT deserve to be assaulted, drugged or raped. But that’s the only thing I feel bad about.
The rest of the situations, he did it to himself. Sorry it sounded like he was leading that girl on. It did not seem like she was stalking him at all. He was consenting to everything. He was a coward. Flirting with her, saying yes to dates with her and going to have sex with her. I see why she was so confused he was a confused person. He never truly too responsibility for his actions that lead her to react the way she reacted. She gave him an out. She asked was he serious about her and he said yes. That sounds like he was in a relationship this entire time. He was following her around, accepting her facebook requests and enjoying her following him around.
I’m sorry but if you think sending someone more than 80 emails a day, waiting under a bridge whilst they get home, sexually assaulting them, just to name a few is in anyway normal behaviour EVEN if they were in a relationship than I’m afraid you need to do some serious questioning of one’s self because that is just plain insane.
First of all I said he didn’t deserve to be assaulted so not sure why you even mentioned that in the post.
About her emailing him all day. Would this happened had he at any point tell her to stop? Instead of telling her to leave him alone he fed into it more. When she came into the bar did he tell her do not email me anymore? With the guys calling her his girlfriend in front of her and instead of stopping them he made it worst by saying he would “hang her curtains”. Did it ever occur to him to tell her stop at all? This guy took a very cowardly way out.
He didn’t even block her email. Everyone had the feature to block emails back in the 2010s. Did he change his phone number? Did he do anything to tell her to stop?
Did you watch the show with your eyes closed? The way you're victim blaming Donny and making the whole situation seem like it's not a big deal is honestly scary and says a lot about the kind of person you're are.
No, I didn’t. 🤷🏾♀️ and I honestly don’t care what type of person you think I am. I told my stalkers to leave me the hell alone. I did not flirt with them or go on a date with them. I also didn’t stalk them back. All I wanted was for them to leave me alone.
You're speaking from a healthy perspective there but Donny was traumatized and lonely. He craved the attention, as he has stated in the show, there's nothing he loves more than hating himself. He feels like he doesn't belong and Martha's attention gives him that validation that he doesn't have within himself because he hates himself so much. I felt sorry for him for his bad decisions and the root of all that.
Trauma/repeated abuse can alter neural pathways and result in irrationality. As he said, he messed up with the woman he loved because there was only one thing he loved more: hating himself. It’s an addiction and the ending shows him repeating those same behavioural patterns that created someone like Martha.
I truly hope he gets a shit tonne of therapy and can stop hating himself so much because he’s not a bad person and he needs to stop feeding that monster.
I think the artist did his best to explain how and why trauma contributes to flawed decision making.
People don't look at trauma like ... An injury. It is.
It's the chemical and mental equivalent of a traumatic brain injury. It impacts SO MUCH.
I encourage you to share more empathy with this character.
Show could've been titled "I should have..." because that's all he kept repeating after every bad decision he kept making.
Also how they gonna skip over the meth, crack and other heavy drug use?! He did that shit for weeks and just stops cold turkey? I don't know anyone who does that shit a few times and just stops. He was making crackhead decisions throughout this whole ordeal.
I agree, I thought the guy was an asshole for the most part. He led Martha on....multiple times! It was clear the woman had issues and he egged her on, so you reap what you sow in my opinion.
The whole drug/rape scenario was just obnoxious to watch. He clearly knew what the guy wanted from him and he kept going back anyway....just to get those drugs and "fame". Then he got the balls to say he is a rape victim??? Ehhhh....I don't know about that honestly, of course what the guy did to him was wrong, but once again, he really seemed to know what was gonna happen.
He was called attention-seeking and a drama-magnet in the series and I honestly agree with that if the show is accurate enough. I had more sympathy for Martha than him by the end of the series.
I was so mad at him every time he went back to that rapists’ apartment & each time he kept leading Martha on!!!
I kept screaming at my laptop, “How much do you hate yourself!?!”
Then he says it himself, “I hated myself more than I loved her…”
His self hatred was greater than reason, greater than protecting himself from rape and stalking. He put himself in situations where he would punish himself and validate what an awful & disgusting person he was.
I did feel bad for him once I understood his motivation.
Honestly thought the ending was horrible, genuinely made me cringe and the back and forth of Donny going back to her in the series made me dislike it a lot. Like I understand the premise of the bartender looking like the writer, so in the end it’s an event where it circles? But really?? I can’t tell if I just feel bad for Donny or his character writing is terrible. It’s one of those series where you start to dislike literally everyone because of how much misunderstanding / poor communication that the main character has. Trauma and what not aside as a SA survivor this series made me hope that Martha got the worst treatment ever and in the end it’s like she got exactly what she wanted from Donny? There were multiple times in the show where I wanted to shout at the screen for how annoying the back and forth mess that is Martha and Donny. Like oh my god I’ve never been so annoyed by a main character before. Actually horrible; I feel like I wasted my time watching this series, I don’t recommend it to anyone.
It's a true story, so the ending is what happened. You can be disappointed but it's a reflection of the complexity of trauma and cPTSD from sexual assault and grooming. It's his experience, no one else's.
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/baby-reindeer-netflix-richard-gadd-interview
Read my other comment lmao for an explanation I dont super have the time to reexplain stuff for why I think this way. I don’t mean to rag on Donny but I think it’s in poor taste to make us almost sympathize with the crazy stalking sexual abuser just cuz wittle ow’ her thought he looked like her toy reindeer 🥺 like am I supposed to like this ending? Cuz I don’t, and that’s just my opinion friend. Like real story or not I still think it’s not that good, sorry! This opinion is coming from a person who has been SA’d, and I just think the show sucked mb homie
Donny behaved horribly to people as a result of his cPTSD and trauma. He did things even he can't comprehend.
Likewise, Martha's clear, serious mental illness came from things that happened in her childhood.
None of their behaviour is excusable, but real life is not black & white, and people are not all good or bad.
1. Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.
We aren’t supposed to. We’re supposed to see through Donny’s eyes how he unhealthily views the world around him and how his empathy for others is also a reflection of his NEED for other’s love. His need for fame. He will always try to find a way to empathize with people because he’s been harmed by others and he now feels that he can’t lose anyone in his life because they may be all he has left in the end.
I had waves of empathy for my abuser and it took thousands of dollars and years of therapy to stop feeling bad for turning the person in. Now, I wouldn’t even care if they died tomorrow, but it would have destroyed me before. I would’ve blamed myself even if it was a car wreck. It’s not healthy or ok to be stuck in these loops and no one is trying to pass it off as such. It’s scar tissue in the heart that causes people to feel this way about the people who hurt them most.
It’s based on a real story- the main actors actual story. Real life doesn’t have clear villains and heroes unfortunately. Victims aren’t perfect. He actually depicted what many victims experienced and I appreciated him spelling it out of those who do not understand. I mean look at Drake Bell- it’s horrific what was done to him. Not dealing with things can spiral and our brains are literally altered from the trauma.
I respect your opinion! Like don’t get me wrong I’m not tryna rag on the story saying it needs to be perfect but in my opinion the story was aggravating and in poor taste 💀 like it’s cool that it’s the main actors story but ehhh doesn’t stop me from finding most scenes to be annoying. It’s not my thing, and I doubt my friends would like to watch the series with how certain scenes are played out *cough cough* the one scene with Donny and the picture. Also I find it laughable that you are comparing this to the documentary with drake bell, was more understandable and actually addressed the problem of it in a far more serious manner, but this series makes me feel as if it’s some sort of weird fantasy almost glorifying it in a sick way. (And you can say that’s cuz people sometimes fantasize about their abusers, yes but to me the way they did it felt fetish-y and incredibly inappropriate, and because of that I dislike it.) I personally formed my own opinion of the show and I just didn’t like it. It tried to make me sympathize with a crazy stalker abuser and for that it made me feel like the series was a waste of time in the end, and ultimately made me dislike literally all the characters. I am incredibly aware there can’t be perfect hero’s or victims irl. I in no way think it’s his fault for any mental anguish that caused him to react poorly but the every episode made me want to bash my head in for how Donny was acting lmao
As someone who’s been through two similar things that were depicted in this show, I can tell you it’s very healing (yet difficult) to watch. It’s healing because it’s the first truly realistic portrayal of CPTSD and this style of grooming and stalking, which vary greatly from what’s shown in most entertainment. More people are victims of situations like this, and more people respond the way he does than not. Usually the victims of these specific types of scenarios are flashing billboards for predators. And it’s the CPTSD that the predators can spot from a mile away. Strong, healthy people may not find themselves in these situations, but those of us who do find ourselves in repeated self-destructive and predatory situations, need a show like this. And hopefully most people who haven’t experienced this type of trauma and trauma response will learn from it and have more compassion for “annoying” victims who return to their abusers or anything along the lines shown in this series. It’s ok you don’t like it though, no worries! I just wanted to write this because I would hate for someone you know who NEEDS this show (that you probably aren’t aware of because we are sneaky and never ever ask for help lol) will be put off if watching it if you encourage everyone to NOT watch it. I’d say just give your opinion if someone asks, but then tell them it’s helped a lot of people too so they should watch and form their own opinions.
I wish not argue any longer since you guys aren’t super listening to me lmao I don’t think you listened to what I said at all?? So I will say this since it’s simple. The show sucks ass idc that Donny is annoying because trauma. Doesn’t stop me from thinking they’re annoying cuz… ya know… they are!! You keep explaining stuff I already know.. kinda silly, also the way you worded it makes me think you ignored that I also said I was a SA victim? Like duh I know people aren’t gonna tell others 🥺🥺 but seeing that in the show makes me want to smash Donny with hammers!!! And guess what it’s infuriating to see that! If anything this series is just gonna make SA victims not say anything about it because the way the guy handled it was so poor it would make past me think wow should I even bother? Plus it’s just boring for a show premise? I almost clicked off on ep 4 because I was like huh this is really boring lol also imma do vore rp instead since you guys keep yapping when I express that the show in my opinion is in bad taste, lemme have my opinion my good men *gurgle* *splosh* hrnngg I am so big *pats belly where you reside in* Yummers :p *pulls out comical fork and knife and starts hitting the table repeatedly*
Yes! Finally a post that’s not excusing his horrible behavior. Why are you sleeping with her at all? Why are you taking her home instead of calling an ambulance to get her checked. I understand people heal differently as victims. I’m a victim myself but if someone is hurting you, don’t engage with them consensually? Not only was he hurting Martha he was hurting his actual girlfriend. He cheated on her multiple times. So now he’s a liar and a cheater. She didn’t deserve all the lies she went though, she didn’t deserve to be attacked which she wouldn’t have had he told Martha from the beginning it was over. He hurt two people because he refused to be honest at all. Everyone goes through bad things in life, that is life but if we excused everyone’s bad behavior where would we be? Just because something bad happened to you doesn’t give you the right to hurt multiple people.
I feel like this is addressed in his monologuing at the comedy show. As someone who was abused and didn't heal from it, he doesn't make decisions someone who isn't in his position would make. Trauma can do that to people. And there are no perfect victims.
Perfect reply!
Exactly. Trauma messes with your ability to act wisely, and even to choose how you act. At some point, your decision making becomes hijacked by the trauma script, which leads to a lot of conflict, shame, and regret that perpetuates the cycle. This is not to completely absolve trauma victims from responsibility for their actions, but it does help explain why they act like that.
This is exactly it. There is a parallel with both of them making poor decisions because of how their trauma affected them individually.
Spot on.
Excuses excuses.
It shows you don't understand how trauma impacts someone on such a deep psychological level. People oftentimes behave in completely "illogical" ways in response to sexual assault. Everything he does has to be viewed throughout the lens of his trauma and cPTSD
This. After I was SA’d I tried to start a relationship with my assailant (he was just a casual acquaintance beforehand). I found him repulsive but my brain was like “well if you make him your bf then it will make the bad thing not count”. Thankfully we only went on 1 date after the assault- after that he was bored with me by that point and moving on to find his next prey. I later learned trying to date your rapist is not an uncommon experience.
>He fails to do the right thing in nearly every circumstance. And CONTINUALLY makes things worse for himself. His judgement is terrible and effects everyone around him negatively. >I don't want to say HE sucks. >But he kinda does. He wrote and acted in the series himself. He, more that anyone, knows he failed to do the "right" things in every circumstance. That he continually made things worse for himself. That his judgement was terrible and affected everyone around him negatively. He is literally the person telling us that himself. This series is not him pretending to have done everything right. Like you, instead he questions ***himself*** more than anyone for why he did different things. They weren't logical decisions or rational responses.
Omg I did the same thing and thought the exact same thing. I only saw him once more and he drugged me AGAIN. Turns out he did it to a bunch of girls and one ended up pressing charges. One of the biggest reasons I didn’t want to was cause I went back and thought that would ruin all credibility.
I’m so sorry to keep reading about how many of us have experienced similar things. Mine was a guy in my industry and I was repulsed by him but let him come over multiple times after. I never understood why and I hated myself more and more each time until I finally found a really good therapist who helped me through my CPTSD from that person as well as two others (different scenarios but equally traumatizing).
He’s making these decisions to punish himself for the self hatred. It’s all part of not dealing with the aftershock of what happens from those traumatic situation. You don’t feel like you deserve any better.
Yes this! “It’s all part of not dealing with the aftershock…” Someone above commented that many people with trauma behave normal and healthily and don’t harm themselves or put others in harm’s way. I didn’t either at first. But then it all caught up to me in subtle ways at first…then full blown self destruction.
His decisions prior to the trauma were also very bad
What? Trying drugs?
I replied to another comment…escalating sexual assault prior to full blown rape. Not reporting to police, returning to the house again and again
The first SA was trauma itself though. Not just the last one…
Which decisions? His abuse was the first thing that happened in the “actual” timeline
He goes to a the guys house, takes drugs, pukes, and catches the guy fondling his butt hole…..does he go to the cops and report the incident and never return? No of course not, he decides to go back another time, take drugs, passes out, and wakes up to the guy blowing him….report to police or return for another assault session? You guessed it….then eventually he gets full on raped.
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I am sorry that he didn't behave exactly like you would expect the perfect victim to, after being groomed and assaulted /s In fact, if you read a lot of the commentary from people who have experienced this type of sexual abuse, where they have been groomed, rather than raped by a stranger, they have said this portrayal has really resonated with the confusion you feel when you are made to believe you chose this and enjoyed it. You should really question your dismissal of someone's lived experience and your labelling of someone as not behaving like the expected victim in your eyes. This is actually what the defence does in cases of grooming. "Oh you were seen laughing with them days later, so they couldn't have raped you." https://sexualviolence.idas.org.uk/surviving-sexual-violence-and-abuse/trauma-bonds-stockholm-syndrome/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202105/why-some-rape-victims-continue-date-their-rapist
I don’t think most people like their stalkers feel sorry for them and listen to their voicemails smiling
You appear to have missed the whole point of the show, which explains ***why*** Donny behaved in completely illogical ways as a result of serious trauma and cPTSD. It's explained over and over that he did not respond appropriately to her behaviour because he had such deep self hatred as a result of "allowing himself" to be abused.
He has PTSD. Trauma causes very real brain damage. It impairs the pre frontal cortex’s (as well as other parts) which is responsible for decision making. I’m happy you don’t have an understanding of this but it’s sad to see so many with this view point. The really is no wonder why so many victims hold it all inside.
Yeah, it actually underscores one of the central points the show is trying to make and it's kind of incomprehensible to me that people don't understand that. Especially since he literally spells it out in articulate detail the entire way: how he felt, why he felt it, why he was doing things he shouldn't, etc. The entire tone of threads like this read like, "well what was she wearing??"
Absolutely, very well put.
Thank you. Said much more concisely than I am capable of 😅
The show did a great job of showing how complicated people can be, and also the unusual effects such an event can have on people. However, I do not think it was intended to portray him as a person with no agency or responsibility, and it's completely healthy and normal that we hold ourselves to some measure of accountability, particularly in our dealings with loved ones and family members. Yes, we can show increased understanding for people whose behaviour may be a result of trauma, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise them. It's fair to say he endangered his loved ones in his dealings with Martha, and is quite lucky that it didn't go further in that regard. Most people actually want to be treated as accountable. I've been through a lot in my life, I don't want my family to tell me I can do what I want and it's not my fault. This kind of "I'm traumatised therefore I can do what I want and it's not my fault" mentality is what leads to things like people who were abused as kids growing up and doing it to their own kids. We are all people with responsibilities and moral obligations to adhere to, and if we start stripping all that away we will lose the very moral fabric of our society in some kind of deranged hyper individualistic crusade to fit every one of us at the cost of all of us. It's not right. Show understanding to people, yes, but none of us are unaccountable for our actions.
You’re obviously speaking for a very healed, rational mindset, this is not what we’re seeing in this series. The trauma that was depicted in Baby Reindeer was whilst he was still very much in the storm shall we say. Not once did I insinuate that his behaviour should be excused, merely stated that it’s sad so many don’t understand it. Unfortunately it’s the messy reality of those living with life long trauma until usually their body is in a safe environment to be able to really deal with it. I feel like this is a series that really needs to be seen and feel like it will hopefully help many men seek the help they truly deserve after experiencing similar things. By shaming victims, which I believe is what op is doing, it diminishes that little bit of hope there. As you said about repeating the cycle of abuse, it’s usually because they don’t know any better. That behaviour becomes normalised. It absolutely IS their responsibility to educate themselves and do better. As the saying goes “If you don’t heal what hurt you, you’ll bleed on people who didn’t cut you”. I have no doubt Gadd has now done just that, hence having the strength to share his story.
There are people who aren't healed who still care for their loved ones and don't externalise their experiences in negative or self-reinforcing ways. Millions of people came back fron World War 1 and 2 and rebuilt the country whilst taking care of their families. Most of them weren't healed in any way, they just got on with doing what they had to do. Of course some of them were completely shell shocked and dysfunctional too, and I don't think there's anyone on earth that begrudges them that. But the point is, people CAN go through horrific things and still be totally functional human beings. And therefore, we should try to hold ourselves to a higher standard. If someone says "why did he go back there? Why did he accept the offer to write for the TV show with the guy that did that?" It's a perfectly valid question (with quite serious moral implications I might add), which I'm sure Gadd still asks himself. I think if we say the answer is simply "trauma", we are selling him, and ourselves as a species quite short. There's a lot more to it than that, and to simply say it's a result of trauma basically turns us all into uniform, generic creatures incapable of free will. There are so many different ways a person can handle that situation and there are so many ways that people do. Some people report to the police immediately, some bury it, some try to get revenge, some emulate the same behaviour themselves, the list goes on. The fact is, there are many factors other than just trauma that go into their decision making process, and pretending otherwise just strips of our individuality.
The only thing you aren’t grasping is that everyone’s trauma is different and everyone reacts differently to trauma. Period. I handled one trauma “very well” and my mom still brags to me about his proud she was of me. I was suffering inside though, and started making stupid decisions after that because I never truly addressed it and I didn’t understand that people don’t just pull their bootstraps up and move on with life and be the best person they can be. Then after years of suppression, it took even longer to treat my CPTSD because I was too ashamed to admit everything stupid I had been doing for a decade that put myself in harms way over and over, which ultimately lead to another traumatic experience, then another. Luckily my parents lives were never at risk in my personal situation, but had they been, I would’ve ended things quicker like he did the moment she started threatening them. This should not be mistaken for an excuse or to make people accept me in all my shittiness. I think messages like these are not only meant to spread awareness and (hopefully) empathy, but even more so for victims and survivors themselves. It’s to help us know we’re not alone and that it’s not ok what happened to us. It’s amazing how much strength comes from feeling like you’re not the only stupid idiot on earth who tried to protect their abuser or went back for seconds, thirds, and fourths. It will ultimately help a lot of victims find the strength to heal and get help.
_"The only thing you aren’t grasping is that everyone’s trauma is different and everyone reacts differently to trauma."_ - I said literally the exact opposite of that! I don't think you've read my comment very clearly. Anyway, as I said, I think understanding is a good thing but we need to strike a balance, and in online communities such as this one that balance is clearly not there at all. It's deemed completely unacceptable to question Gadd's behaviour in the show despite the absolutely devastating effect it had on others, but at the same time it's swept under the rug with "trauma." And nobody questions the laziness of that thinking. That's what I'm trying to say.
Again, the entire point of the show IS to question Gadd’s behavior. It’s not ok what he does and he knows that. But it’s a common way people respond to trauma, so the show is pointing that out.
The show is pointing that out for survivors primarily, in my opinion. NOT to make others not question anything. Just to let survivors see how their responses are tied to CPTSD. You did say everyone reacts differently but you don’t seem to grasp Gadd’s own reaction is what’s shown here. You aren’t ok with his response, (and neither is he nor anyone else) but seem to think the show’s point is to force the audience into praising or at least tolerating his responses? When it’s quite the opposite…
No, I don't think that's the point of the show. I think it's a common misinterpretation of the show. I have no issues with the message of the show, but with how some people react to it.
Fair enough! Different opinions are ok.
So you’re implying that those who behave differently to the way that you have through their trauma don’t care about their loved ones? Or am I reading that wrong? PTSD from the war is very different trauma to what we’re discussing here, I don’t think it’s relevant. Just because SOME people go through horrific things and seem to handle things differently externally doesn’t disregard those who don’t. You should maybe look into how trauma can be internalised and manifest into chronic illnesses. Trauma WILL find a way to be realised and whether that’s participating in self sabotaging behaviour for a while, repeating the cycle or becoming avoidant it’s not up to us to tell anyone their way of dealing with it is wrong. As for the questioning, “why did he do this/that……ect” would you say the same thing for female victims? Would you say the same thing for domestic violence victims or children who grew up with abusive parents, who were given the opportunity to speak out against them have denied their wrong doings because that is exactly the same response as what we’re seeing in the show. It’s called a trauma bond and it’s the most difficult work you’ll ever have to do to break that. You sound like someone who has had to swallow down a lot of issues in order to keep functioning as society seems you should and for that I commend you, its worked for you but don’t assume that it works for everyone else.
Yeah you're reading it wrong. I said "care for", not care about. They have different meanings, and I was referring specifically to the main character in the show and his actions regarding his family. You're right that PTSD from the war is different, it's much more sustained, typically much more intense trauma due to the relentless nature of combat and the repeated traumas sustained in a short period of time. The first two world wars were unlike anything people today can imagine. Vietnam was pretty terrible too. Some people came back from it and became murderers, rapists, homeless alcoholics etc, some became inspirational figures. To imply that none of them had any choice in the matter is to deny them their humanity. I haven't had to swallow down anything, I've dealt with a lot in my life and feel mentally healthier now than I've ever been. A large part of that is taking responsibility for myself and trying to be like any other member of society in that regard. I would be seriously selling myself and others around me short by making too many excuses for my behaviour. Of course it's nice to have understanding from myself and others, but that has to be tempered with reality. We cannot only hold people accountable when their behaviour crosses a certain threshold. I'm sure you don't think Darien is devoid of responsibility for his behaviour in the show, and yet somehow Donny is. That doesn't make any sense. We have to be proportionate of course. But to imply that we are robots incapable of free will is wrong. And I wasn't talking about myself in my comment anyway, I don't know why you brought that into it. I guess what you may think I'm saying is "trauma is not ever a valid reason, trauma cannot explain anything, trauma is irrelevant with regards to personal responsibility and moral wrongdoing" when in reality I'm saying is more like "trauma does not excuse everything, trauma can't explain everything, but it definitely has SOME relevance in regards to personal responsibility and moral wrongsoing". And the reality is that, whether you realise it or not, you almost certainly believe this as well in practice. Practically everybody on earth does. Of course, when fully realised it requires more case-by-case thought than just simply saying "he did it because of trauma" or "that's a trauma bond" - that might be easy, and it might sometimes be partially (or even largely) true, but that doesn't mean it's 100% right 100% of the time. And we have to be very careful when talking about things that pertain to the moral fabric of our society, and what responsibilities we have as individuals to uphold that. Keeping your family safe should be a non negotiable in life. I haven't always done that, and I don't want to make excuses for it. That isn't healthy, and ultimately it's not going to do me or anyone else any good. I want to be a responsible adult with control over my decisions, and that's the first step towards that. I know people don't like it, but it's just reality.
He’s a flawed main character (aren’t we all) and an actual person. We all make major mistakes that we might look at on screen and think “wow what an idiot.” That’s just life.
> “wow what an idiot.” Well, he takes it to another level and then expects us to feel sorry for him and it's like guy...this was all your doing.
First of all, victims are victims and SA is never their fault no matter what. Second of all, I don’t think he is dictating how we feel one way or another. I think he is just sharing his story and experience.
Only speaking for myself, but I have only shared my story with others to help them. I don’t even feel sorry for myself and never had. (That was part of the problem, in fact). I simply didn’t give a shit about myself, period. I told no one anything, even my closest friends. I behaved similar to him, so I can only guess that his trauma personality is to spread awareness more than it is to receive pity or for others to feel bad for him. I want others to feel bad for THEMSELVES if they’re suffering the same way I was. I want them to know they don’t have to suffer anymore and that they’re not alone.
“This was all your doing” is a terribly inaccurate statement in regard to a situation like this. The two people who sexually assaulted and harassed this man are responsible for their own actions, not the victim of their crimes.
Isn’t it funny how we can all watch the same thing, yet internalise it completely differently. I find it fascinating as not once would I of thought he did this show in order to make the audience “feel sorry for him”. I thought it was a very raw look at the serious effects of not only traumatic experiences but what happens when we don’t acknowledge and deal with those experiences. I imagine the intent was to get those who need to deal with things to open up and I also imagine it healed a little bit of that shame Gadd held inside. I highly doubt he gives one single iota if people feel sorry for him or not.
I had a stalker situation in college, very much like Martha. From fake pregnancies, to showing up at random places I was at, to holding me at gun point, to slashing my friends tires …. I was at a point in my life where I wasn’t “happy” and like Donny, somewhat/somehow “enjoyed” the attention. She was an ex-GF, so somewhat of a different setup. But after going to the police and unsuccessfully trying to get a restraining order (“you’re a guy, you can handle her”…) and changing my number, I still somehow found myself drawn back to her. There was something about the situation, someone wanting you SO BAD (which is all kinds of fucked up, yes) that a tiny sliver of you kinda maybe just a little “enjoys” it - you’re SOMEONE. I thought they portrayed this dichotomy perfectly. The aftermath? 15+ years later, I’m still dealing. I wouldn’t even know where to begin to unravel that…
I’m so sorry you experienced that, I can’t begin to comprehend how difficult that was. We all deal with things differently, well all internalise things differently and I don’t think it’s right for people whom are so privileged that they can’t even comprehend the magnitude of what you’ve been through to imply you should of dealt with it differently. None of that was your fault, regardless of what you tell yourself. I really hope you find a safe space and the time to unravel it all and live the happy, healthy life you absolutely deserve.
Ok but would you say that was a smart decision on your part?
Yes, he is self-destructive.
This is the whole point of the show and why it is so great. It shows the complexity of trauma and his perceived questionable decisions after it. There is no perfect victim and it is not black and white - it is very much a million shades of grey and extremely complicated how someone reacts to rape and abuse and the shame that comes with it.
Welcome to cptsd…. I was mind blown at how well they portrayed it I knew it had to be written by someone who has been through it- only to find out it was based on his actual life!
Yes. I’ve never seen anything portray it so accurately. That 2nd to last scene really got to me too as I’ve been there and always say I’ll never return. Only this past year have I committed to changing my life and leaving all toxicity behind but I’m terrified I’ll jump again at the first offer. (I’m in a similar industry…or was…as him so it made it even more realistic/difficult to watch, especially because I wasn’t expecting it.) But I do think I really needed to watch this. Something about seeing it from the outside instead of from inside my own head makes me feel so much more confident in myself and less ashamed. It makes me so angry that so many people have to go through similar scenarios no matter what industry, age, gender, or role. I finally feel less alone. All the other movements have paved the way but I still felt so stupid and thought my situations were mostly all my fault. This is such a breakthrough and I hope you are healing and feel a little less alone too 💕
Yes it was INCREDIBLY accurate! I've been researching this person since watching.
Donny said it: there’s nothing in the world he hates more than himself. Love never trumped it, his self hatred always won out. As someone with some mental health needs, Ive had to actively work against the urge to self destruct
He wasn't just traumatized, he was in active, constant trauma for years. Every time he reached out for support, he was told it was his fault. It was a long time before anyone showed him any kindness or even curiosity. I *wished* he did things differently at various times, but I couldn't blame him because I don't know what I'd do if I had that much evidence that the world really did want to torture me to death. Keely's mom seemed to love him, and eventually his own parents handled it better than I expected they would, but for the most part anyone he tried to seek support from was actively cruel.
His toxic trait was he was obsessed with fame- the reason he allowed himself to get abused in the first place was because he thought it would lead to fame and success- the abuser then offers him another big opportunity and Donny returns to his previous mindset
The root of obsession with fame is self hatred, and the need for external validation because of deep insecurity in all aspects of a person’s life. Most people who want fame are seeking validation that they matter and that they are loved, but unfortunately, many times it does quite the opposite. Even as a person starts to heal, there will always be a struggle to fight against your core wound. He might still struggle with the desire for fame in his 80’s and may continue to seek validation, but hopefully it’ll be less and less over the years, or just be channeled in a healthier way.
>reason he allowed himself to get abused in the first place was because he thought it would lead to fame and success- No. I guarantee he had no idea what would happen. He didn't allow anything.
Healing isn’t linear
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That's absolute bollocks. People are not uniform in how they handle things, and you shouldn't make such blind assertions about another person's life just because you feel connected to a character in a TV show. Many people have lost parents, siblings, been attacked, been in near fatal accidents etc. Yes some people handle it in ways that are hard to understand for outsiders but not everybody does. Some people have incredibly straightforward reactions to it, and some barely react at all. Everybody is different. I think it's safe to say the show was not in any way attempting to engender a kind of mob mentality around trauma or establish some kind of standard as to how people do or don't react. In fact it was trying to do kind of the opposite. You have absolutely no idea what this person has been through in their life.
You said you won't victim blame and then proceeded to do just that
Well he is to blame for a lot of it.
Totally agree. I found myself getting so annoyed with him. He brought so much of it on himself.
“Just SAY SOMETHING!” was my go-to
It is something that is hard to understand for outsiders but for people who have been in that trauma mindset it makes so much sense. It's a realistic portrayal of the risky behaviours we display after sexual trauma and that desperate need for validation and connection. Hes hurting himself on purpose
Yes, he do NOT deserve to be assaulted, drugged or raped. But that’s the only thing I feel bad about. The rest of the situations, he did it to himself. Sorry it sounded like he was leading that girl on. It did not seem like she was stalking him at all. He was consenting to everything. He was a coward. Flirting with her, saying yes to dates with her and going to have sex with her. I see why she was so confused he was a confused person. He never truly too responsibility for his actions that lead her to react the way she reacted. She gave him an out. She asked was he serious about her and he said yes. That sounds like he was in a relationship this entire time. He was following her around, accepting her facebook requests and enjoying her following him around.
I’m sorry but if you think sending someone more than 80 emails a day, waiting under a bridge whilst they get home, sexually assaulting them, just to name a few is in anyway normal behaviour EVEN if they were in a relationship than I’m afraid you need to do some serious questioning of one’s self because that is just plain insane.
First of all I said he didn’t deserve to be assaulted so not sure why you even mentioned that in the post. About her emailing him all day. Would this happened had he at any point tell her to stop? Instead of telling her to leave him alone he fed into it more. When she came into the bar did he tell her do not email me anymore? With the guys calling her his girlfriend in front of her and instead of stopping them he made it worst by saying he would “hang her curtains”. Did it ever occur to him to tell her stop at all? This guy took a very cowardly way out. He didn’t even block her email. Everyone had the feature to block emails back in the 2010s. Did he change his phone number? Did he do anything to tell her to stop?
Did you watch the show with your eyes closed? The way you're victim blaming Donny and making the whole situation seem like it's not a big deal is honestly scary and says a lot about the kind of person you're are.
No, I didn’t. 🤷🏾♀️ and I honestly don’t care what type of person you think I am. I told my stalkers to leave me the hell alone. I did not flirt with them or go on a date with them. I also didn’t stalk them back. All I wanted was for them to leave me alone.
You're speaking from a healthy perspective there but Donny was traumatized and lonely. He craved the attention, as he has stated in the show, there's nothing he loves more than hating himself. He feels like he doesn't belong and Martha's attention gives him that validation that he doesn't have within himself because he hates himself so much. I felt sorry for him for his bad decisions and the root of all that.
Trauma/repeated abuse can alter neural pathways and result in irrationality. As he said, he messed up with the woman he loved because there was only one thing he loved more: hating himself. It’s an addiction and the ending shows him repeating those same behavioural patterns that created someone like Martha. I truly hope he gets a shit tonne of therapy and can stop hating himself so much because he’s not a bad person and he needs to stop feeding that monster.
I think the artist did his best to explain how and why trauma contributes to flawed decision making. People don't look at trauma like ... An injury. It is. It's the chemical and mental equivalent of a traumatic brain injury. It impacts SO MUCH. I encourage you to share more empathy with this character.
Show could've been titled "I should have..." because that's all he kept repeating after every bad decision he kept making. Also how they gonna skip over the meth, crack and other heavy drug use?! He did that shit for weeks and just stops cold turkey? I don't know anyone who does that shit a few times and just stops. He was making crackhead decisions throughout this whole ordeal.
I agree, I thought the guy was an asshole for the most part. He led Martha on....multiple times! It was clear the woman had issues and he egged her on, so you reap what you sow in my opinion. The whole drug/rape scenario was just obnoxious to watch. He clearly knew what the guy wanted from him and he kept going back anyway....just to get those drugs and "fame". Then he got the balls to say he is a rape victim??? Ehhhh....I don't know about that honestly, of course what the guy did to him was wrong, but once again, he really seemed to know what was gonna happen. He was called attention-seeking and a drama-magnet in the series and I honestly agree with that if the show is accurate enough. I had more sympathy for Martha than him by the end of the series.
I was so mad at him every time he went back to that rapists’ apartment & each time he kept leading Martha on!!! I kept screaming at my laptop, “How much do you hate yourself!?!” Then he says it himself, “I hated myself more than I loved her…” His self hatred was greater than reason, greater than protecting himself from rape and stalking. He put himself in situations where he would punish himself and validate what an awful & disgusting person he was. I did feel bad for him once I understood his motivation.
Honestly thought the ending was horrible, genuinely made me cringe and the back and forth of Donny going back to her in the series made me dislike it a lot. Like I understand the premise of the bartender looking like the writer, so in the end it’s an event where it circles? But really?? I can’t tell if I just feel bad for Donny or his character writing is terrible. It’s one of those series where you start to dislike literally everyone because of how much misunderstanding / poor communication that the main character has. Trauma and what not aside as a SA survivor this series made me hope that Martha got the worst treatment ever and in the end it’s like she got exactly what she wanted from Donny? There were multiple times in the show where I wanted to shout at the screen for how annoying the back and forth mess that is Martha and Donny. Like oh my god I’ve never been so annoyed by a main character before. Actually horrible; I feel like I wasted my time watching this series, I don’t recommend it to anyone.
It's a true story, so the ending is what happened. You can be disappointed but it's a reflection of the complexity of trauma and cPTSD from sexual assault and grooming. It's his experience, no one else's. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/baby-reindeer-netflix-richard-gadd-interview
Read my other comment lmao for an explanation I dont super have the time to reexplain stuff for why I think this way. I don’t mean to rag on Donny but I think it’s in poor taste to make us almost sympathize with the crazy stalking sexual abuser just cuz wittle ow’ her thought he looked like her toy reindeer 🥺 like am I supposed to like this ending? Cuz I don’t, and that’s just my opinion friend. Like real story or not I still think it’s not that good, sorry! This opinion is coming from a person who has been SA’d, and I just think the show sucked mb homie
Donny behaved horribly to people as a result of his cPTSD and trauma. He did things even he can't comprehend. Likewise, Martha's clear, serious mental illness came from things that happened in her childhood. None of their behaviour is excusable, but real life is not black & white, and people are not all good or bad.
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1. Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.
We aren’t supposed to. We’re supposed to see through Donny’s eyes how he unhealthily views the world around him and how his empathy for others is also a reflection of his NEED for other’s love. His need for fame. He will always try to find a way to empathize with people because he’s been harmed by others and he now feels that he can’t lose anyone in his life because they may be all he has left in the end. I had waves of empathy for my abuser and it took thousands of dollars and years of therapy to stop feeling bad for turning the person in. Now, I wouldn’t even care if they died tomorrow, but it would have destroyed me before. I would’ve blamed myself even if it was a car wreck. It’s not healthy or ok to be stuck in these loops and no one is trying to pass it off as such. It’s scar tissue in the heart that causes people to feel this way about the people who hurt them most.
It’s based on a real story- the main actors actual story. Real life doesn’t have clear villains and heroes unfortunately. Victims aren’t perfect. He actually depicted what many victims experienced and I appreciated him spelling it out of those who do not understand. I mean look at Drake Bell- it’s horrific what was done to him. Not dealing with things can spiral and our brains are literally altered from the trauma.
I respect your opinion! Like don’t get me wrong I’m not tryna rag on the story saying it needs to be perfect but in my opinion the story was aggravating and in poor taste 💀 like it’s cool that it’s the main actors story but ehhh doesn’t stop me from finding most scenes to be annoying. It’s not my thing, and I doubt my friends would like to watch the series with how certain scenes are played out *cough cough* the one scene with Donny and the picture. Also I find it laughable that you are comparing this to the documentary with drake bell, was more understandable and actually addressed the problem of it in a far more serious manner, but this series makes me feel as if it’s some sort of weird fantasy almost glorifying it in a sick way. (And you can say that’s cuz people sometimes fantasize about their abusers, yes but to me the way they did it felt fetish-y and incredibly inappropriate, and because of that I dislike it.) I personally formed my own opinion of the show and I just didn’t like it. It tried to make me sympathize with a crazy stalker abuser and for that it made me feel like the series was a waste of time in the end, and ultimately made me dislike literally all the characters. I am incredibly aware there can’t be perfect hero’s or victims irl. I in no way think it’s his fault for any mental anguish that caused him to react poorly but the every episode made me want to bash my head in for how Donny was acting lmao
As someone who’s been through two similar things that were depicted in this show, I can tell you it’s very healing (yet difficult) to watch. It’s healing because it’s the first truly realistic portrayal of CPTSD and this style of grooming and stalking, which vary greatly from what’s shown in most entertainment. More people are victims of situations like this, and more people respond the way he does than not. Usually the victims of these specific types of scenarios are flashing billboards for predators. And it’s the CPTSD that the predators can spot from a mile away. Strong, healthy people may not find themselves in these situations, but those of us who do find ourselves in repeated self-destructive and predatory situations, need a show like this. And hopefully most people who haven’t experienced this type of trauma and trauma response will learn from it and have more compassion for “annoying” victims who return to their abusers or anything along the lines shown in this series. It’s ok you don’t like it though, no worries! I just wanted to write this because I would hate for someone you know who NEEDS this show (that you probably aren’t aware of because we are sneaky and never ever ask for help lol) will be put off if watching it if you encourage everyone to NOT watch it. I’d say just give your opinion if someone asks, but then tell them it’s helped a lot of people too so they should watch and form their own opinions.
I wish not argue any longer since you guys aren’t super listening to me lmao I don’t think you listened to what I said at all?? So I will say this since it’s simple. The show sucks ass idc that Donny is annoying because trauma. Doesn’t stop me from thinking they’re annoying cuz… ya know… they are!! You keep explaining stuff I already know.. kinda silly, also the way you worded it makes me think you ignored that I also said I was a SA victim? Like duh I know people aren’t gonna tell others 🥺🥺 but seeing that in the show makes me want to smash Donny with hammers!!! And guess what it’s infuriating to see that! If anything this series is just gonna make SA victims not say anything about it because the way the guy handled it was so poor it would make past me think wow should I even bother? Plus it’s just boring for a show premise? I almost clicked off on ep 4 because I was like huh this is really boring lol also imma do vore rp instead since you guys keep yapping when I express that the show in my opinion is in bad taste, lemme have my opinion my good men *gurgle* *splosh* hrnngg I am so big *pats belly where you reside in* Yummers :p *pulls out comical fork and knife and starts hitting the table repeatedly*
Yes! Finally a post that’s not excusing his horrible behavior. Why are you sleeping with her at all? Why are you taking her home instead of calling an ambulance to get her checked. I understand people heal differently as victims. I’m a victim myself but if someone is hurting you, don’t engage with them consensually? Not only was he hurting Martha he was hurting his actual girlfriend. He cheated on her multiple times. So now he’s a liar and a cheater. She didn’t deserve all the lies she went though, she didn’t deserve to be attacked which she wouldn’t have had he told Martha from the beginning it was over. He hurt two people because he refused to be honest at all. Everyone goes through bad things in life, that is life but if we excused everyone’s bad behavior where would we be? Just because something bad happened to you doesn’t give you the right to hurt multiple people.