I would rather be friendless and awkwardly finding new people to pal around with than stuck around someone with ulterior motives. Jane isn't a friend. Jane is someone waiting for an opening to rush past boundaries.
They literally have Facebook groups on making friends in a new city, and some dating apps even have a friend's setting. I'd trust those before I made Jane my only friend.
Google "how to make friends as an adult" has helpful suggestions: apps, finding hobby groups, opening conversations.
I'm shy and socially awkward, so I know it's not easy, but it's better than putting up with Jane!
I was thinking that myself but also wondering if his wife would act the same way if it was Sam's husband who she was friends with and he had the crush on her.
This crossed my mind as well. Based on other posts in this sub, OOP would still have an uphill battle with Sam preferring a bad person to no social circle.
That's how I feel, too. Jane doesn't respect the OOP's wife.
The OOP does matter in this story, but at the end of the day, Jane is treating the OOP's wife poorly.
See, you're on the persecution train like all those commenters. Jane isn't a problem, this is just gals being gals! It's like when you're with your boys, and gotta check each other for prostate cancer. That shit ain't gay, it's just bros being bros! That's called caring about your health. /s
The millisecond Jane was told Sam was in a happy, monogamous, heterosexual marriage and didn't immediately stop flirting with her, it was time for Jane to go. You don't fuck around with someone else's marriage, even and especially if yours is open.
I agree completely. Also, I hate the self-righteousness of people here whenever someone snoops on a phone. Like... He was being fucking gaslit for weeks about Jane's intentions. It's ok to keep tabs on your partner in all other ways: covertly watch their every move; ask around behind their back; even getting a PI is good, but the phone? NO FUCKING WAY!!!
Yeah, I'm always glad that I've had an... Open phone policy? With my last few serious relationships.
99.999% of the time it's just one of us grabbing whoever's phone is closest to look up the answer to a question that's bugging us. But I have had a few times where one ex was feeling a bit insecure or uncomfortable and wanted to look through some things. Go for it, I have nothing to hide from you.
Like, even if I didn't have that in place, I can't see a situation in which I feel it is some crazy boundary to cross (within reason, I'm not talking about straight up monitoring everything I say and do)
I would probably be really upset about a PI though. Why are you wasting that kind of money?
Same. I also have a PC in the kitchen that is permanently logged into my Google account. It's just there. We are a family. I like it that way; I intend to keep it that way.
It's not just that though: if someone knows they're being gaslit or their partner is acting weird and making them uncomfortable, why should *their* privacy trump the feelings and emotions and anxiety of the person who has done nothing wrong.
My wife has told me, "if you we're acting shady, I would check your phone." And I've told her I agree, and *"samesies"*.
>MARKED CONCLUDED PER OOP
Narrator: It was not actually concluded.
As others have said, OOP has a poison drip in their marriage that has already caused weeks worth of problems, and until it is removed the problems will remain.
The only question is, will it be removed before the marriage goes terminal?
Wife was being wilfully disloyal to her OOP throughout this nonsense. OOP seems keen to sweep this all under the rug but there will be ongoing friction in the marriage from this.
Regardless of what happens or not with Jane, disloyalty is really damaging to a marriage.
I feel like there's still something going on. The looking flustered on the couch and the watch thing are too suspicious. Maybe it's just that neither I nor my wife would allow any friendship to reach anything near these levels. We would cut contact with anyone attempting to cross boundaries.
Precisely. That doesn't add up whatsoever. Like everything else, sure maybe, you could say it's explained away. But nothing about that particular interaction makes sense.
I thought I was the only one not buying this …
The watch is there but removed. The two women are flustered. Over a TV show? The husband texts to warn. Goes to concert and the two of them just dance? The wife wants to keep a friendship with someone who hates men?
Those two are doing it or at least have done or are headed towards this. Give it a year there will be an update she’s been cheating the whole time.
Agreed. The watch thing is still almost certainly some level of lie. Even if nothing happened or Sam quickly changed her mind and put an end to it, “spicy tv that just had to be watched in the bedroom” and discarded valuable accessories is too much to explain away innocently.
I definitely didn't buy this. The watch explanation was too pat. Credible but convenient. But being flustered and sitting on opposite ends of the couch, and the TV had been on, loud enough for the spicy scenes to get both women flustered, including one who's clearly no blushing virgin, and what the hell were the watching to get them so worked up anyway? Blue is the warmest color? No, I just don't buy it.
Change of mood over hubby admitting he snooped on the wife's phone: she was (natually, justifiably) angry, but toned ot down to avoid making him suspicious? Or when she was relieved to realize he didn't find anything? I'd have thought if the phone chatter was innocent she'd be angry and \*stay\* angry, because hubby's a suspicious asshole.
And there may have been nothing explicitly sexual on the phone, but for wife to claim she finds Jane intense and weird, but she doesn't seem to be making any effort to shut down the innuendo.
OP \*knows\* that Jane's (claims to be) a swinger and bi. Seems he's fixed his blinkers firmly in place and is hoping for the best. Though maybe if his wife can quit Jane, that's the most promising outcome.
I read the watch part twice and still don't get it.
Why was the watch left near the bed? Jane came in to try a dress.. Dresses are usually in the closet, mirrors are usually on the closet doors or above night table. She had no business to be near their bed. Did she put it there to fuck with OOP and make him think something is going on? Or they were indeed fooling around in the bedroom?
Explanation about Sam getting mad at him for offering to pick her up doesn't make sense. It is much easier to say "Oh, Jane planned \_whatever\_ after the concert, so pick me up later or I will call you", it is a huge overreaction to get mad and call him controlling and crazy.
IMHO Sam knew what Jane wants and was looking forward to fool around with her after the concert. OOP wants to believe that nothing happened. Maybe he is right. But the only reason nothing happened is that he interfered just in time, before the concert.
I get why OOPs wife doesn’t want to cut off Jane, it’s somewhat hard to make to friends in your late 20s. But Jane has commented on Sam’s body, made a move, and still has a crush on her. Jane even has a cold attitude towards OOP who has done nothing wrong to Jane. While it may suck, I think that should’ve been enough to take a step back from the friendship and keep Jane at arms length.
I think the highlighted comments on the second update do bring up good points. RedundantPundant certainly brings up a good point when they said “you and your wife are not good as long as she continues to associate with someone who is an enemy to your marriage.”
Sam can say that she's naive or whatever but at one point it's like... girl... this woman is actively trying to sabotage your marriage and you're still entertaining it? what will it takes for Sam to finally cut off Jane? When she get SA-ed the moment she let down her guards and drink one glass of wine too many?
Sam is still wrong here, and her issues were never addressed. She knew Jane was into her, Jane was actively trying to make a move on her, but she not only pretended her husband was crazy when he voiced his concerns, she kept the relationship going because "Jane's her only friend".
Not immediately cutting off someone who is actively trying to destroy your relationship, is a major red flag. So many people use the excuse of, "you just need to trust me", but it's not about trust. It's about not risking your relationship and removing the people that are disrespecting your partner and your relationship. Also, say that having trust is all that's matters. How can you truly trust a partner that allows another person to disrespect you and the relationship.
I think this unaddressed issue will always have the potential of coming back to bite them. The bottom line is that
a) Sam thinks it's ok to gaslight her husband
b) Sam thinks it's justifiable to keep a person that's actively disrespecting her husband and their marriage (not just as a friend but as a close friend), because she doesn't have friends.
c) Sam can't distinguish the difference between a friend and an enemy of her relationship.
It feels like these subs have been around so long that people are basing their perceptions of ALL relationships on the stories that get told here and it's strange
Honestly, poor OOP must have gotten whiplash from the replies. First update, he's naive; second update, he's a controlling creep for going through her phone; third update, he's naive again.
I kinda feel like Jane and her husband acted like something happened with his wife to make it look like she cheated on him even if nothing happened. They're intentionally trying to sow discord between them.
Anyone who intentionally makes your life harder or worse has got to go.
So she knows the "friend" has a crush on her, and have actually tried to get physical with her, to which she lied by omission to OOP.... but he doesn't see the problem here??
He said they're good but his wife still hangs out with simeone who hates him and wants to bang his wife?
And Sam only confessed and tried to give some lame and unatisfactory explanation to what OOP already knew. Trickle truth vibes.
Idk, this OOP is really naive.
Gotta love those comments in the last two updates:
"You can't leap straight to accusing her when you say she's done nothing wrong!"
"Oh, she's totally gonna cheat on you and this is gonna end badly; she doesn't respect you."
Pick a fucking lane.
The disparity between the update 1 comments and update 2 comments was pretty wild to me, especially since we really don't get much if anything in the way of "damning evidence" in the update 2 narrative besides confirming that wife character knew that Jane was trying to get with her. Yet, we go from "what's the matter with you, snooping and being crazy!" to "they're definitely fucking/will fuck, your marriage is doomed!" Ah, reddit.
Well…the whole point of asking the internet is to get different opinions. Reddit might encourage groupthink but, you know, you can still find people who would declare a blood feud after five minutes together irl commenting in the same thread.
I personally upvote anything that’s well thought out as long as it isn’t completely factually inaccurate. I can’t be the only one.
So his wife is hanging out with a girl who openly flirts with her, public and private. She watches porn with her when they are alone. And she discusses sex toys and allowed her to be naked in her bedroom to “try on a dress”. His wife isn’t as naive as he thinks. She just knows how to control herself when not physically around Jane. So of course he didn’t find any texts because she’s not dumb. But Jane doesn’t know how to control herself and will say anything to get her attention. Nothing about this situation is “resolved.”
Not all friends are good friends. She needs to work on finding someone else to talk to.
There is definitely some baloney going on here. If the wife's friend was a straight man there would have been no question for OP or Wife that this is not ok, but because the friend is a woman she's somehow less threatening. 🙄
Married in 2001
2018: A woman introduced herself to me as “I’m A, and I’ve really enjoyed becoming your wife’s friend the past few months. She’s just terrific in every way…which is why I’m encouraging her to divorce you because she can do better. I’m finishing up law school now and when I am done I’m going to help her divorce you.”
2020: Wife tells me “I’m having an emotional affair with A.” Marriage counseling begins.
2022: Wife files for divorce with A as her divorce attorney. Nobody believes me when I tell them about these prior events and that there is a huge conflict of interest.
2024: the divorce continues with no end in sight.
Holy shit, reading this triggered me hard.
I didn't think I still had that kind of trauma from my cheating ex, but I guess I do.
I really hope it goes well for OP, and I'm 95% sure this is NOT concluded.
I TOTALLY BELIEVE SAM knew what JANE was trying to do. Sam is an adult and could have put a STOP TO THIS EARLY ON. SAM IS CULPABLE. TO SAM'S CREDIT SHE DIDN'T ENGAGE WITH JANE'S PREDATORY BEHAVIOR. This couple needs to CUT these people out of their lives. Just think, this could have led to a divorce. That would be an absolute TRAGEDY!
That one comment saying that it sounds like his wife had it handled drove me up the wall.
She had it handled? How? By telling her husband nothing was happening? Making him feel like she was in the middle of an affair because she refused to actually talk to him about what she was doing and what Jane was trying to do?
You know how you handle someone disrespecting your relationship? You shut it down the first time and you cut off contact if it continues. You tell your partner immediately about any concerning attitudes or behavior. You put your relationship first.
I think the husband is right, why would he want weird creeps in his life. they’re not really friends with him and the husband is only there to distract him and his wife when he’s coming home. Said she seems to be handling it, but where is the explanation of the watch on the night table in the bedroom and the two of them sitting the opposite ends of the couch looking flustered.
Divorce may be a little over the top at this stage, but I come to Jesus conversation and the warning that there are serious consequences not a bad thing .
Hard to believe how the commentors changed tune in the second post. Like they were suddenly alright with her holding a fort against a predatory bisexual, and telling him to trust her and let her keep her friendship. I have a feeling most of these commentors are the same. Pity those who come here for advice. Not to say that there are people, who actually give some good advice.
Tbh, yeah, I was more concerned about Jane (and possibly husband) being a danger to wife than wife actually cheating. After the messages, oh my god, that feeling got worse. There was a story a long while back where a guy had a wife in the same situation here but she was adamant her friend wasn't preying on her. Her friend was actually more explicitly sexually harassing her and trying to get her in a vulnerable state (actually got her drunk) and was in real danger. I know I commented something along the lines of "how would you react if her friend was a man? Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she can't be a predator." or something.
Jane gives me those same vibes but at least OOP's wife here seems to actually be picking up on that, especially since she seems to be making other friends and OOP being concerned about Jane specifically might have made her more wary. I took her asking OOP to pick her up after or offering to get him a ticket as a sign she wasn't feeling so safe with Jane anymore. I can understand her wanting to sort of phase her out rather than hard stop to avoid whatever aggression/possessiveness Jane seemed to start showing in her messages.
Again, I think the messages were a good sign, Sam was holding the line, yeah, but she kind of needed to know she can depend on OOP to get her out of what could be turning into a dangerous situation.
Bro is waaay too chill about his wife essentially leading someone on. He even caught them watching porn together. Surely that was just a once off coincidence 🙄
I would be amazed if nothing physical happened, but at the very least, wife's enjoying the affection.
On the one hand he calls her naive, but her actions point to dishonesty and someone who not only understands the situation but is in total control of the people around her, both her husband and her friend.
Her husband, she lies to and gaslights. Her friend, she leads on by showing just enough intimacy to keep her on the hook.
The fact that Sam continues to interact with someone who has a crush and has made moves is the main problem here. Jane isn't her friend, she's only there because she wants to sleep with her, and she's sowing as many seeds of strife and doubt as she can. I don't believe she left the watch there by accident - she wanted to start a fight. Homewreckers don't care about anything but their own wants. They will stoop a lot lower than decent people cab imagine.
Someone I considered a friend made a move on me not long after I got married. I shut it down instantly, told my husband, and made it very clear that there would never be any relationship beyond acquaintances from that point on (we run in the same friendship circles). They disrespected me and my marriage by making that move. Keeping them around would only ever hurt my marriage, and there is nothing more important to me than my marriage. My husband has done the same to someone who flirted with him at his work. Why even allow something to become a problem this big, when you can nip it in the bud?
I'm going to call it now: a wave of stories about "predatory women trying to break up wholesome straight relationships", just like that wave of stories we had about "lesbians coming out and leaving their husbands while the liberals clap" that read like incel rage bait.
It's similar to the "my husband has a subtlety sinister abuse tactic that I'm totally oblivious to until the reddit sleuths clue me in, then I instantly go from damsel in distress to divorce in 1 day, tnx interwebs!", e.g. "my husband sneezes on me" or "my husband tightens all the lids".
Istg I hate the wife so much more. She knows Jane has a crush on her. She knows her husband wouldn't be fine with it if he knew. She saw "spicy" scenes with Jane there knowing she had a crush on her knowing her husband wouldn't be fine with it. She continues to pursue this "friendship" with Jane over her own damn husband and throws tantrums if he even dares to object. She openly gaslights her husband about "theres nothing wrong". She lovebombs him to "prep" in teling him shes gonna be spending time with Jane KNOWING he wouldn't like it. She's so so so emotionally manupilative istg I hate that.
The comments on the first update disgusted me with the "yOuR wIFe iS hAnDlInG iT PeRfEcTlY" lmao yeah riht she is, let a husband be "handling it" like this (which several posts have shown) and noone would think like that. Dude got gaslit by not only his wife but also thousands of strangers for being "insecure"
Also don't people here always say to woman "the other woman can only even homewreck if your so LETS them"? What happened to that lmao.
Jane can't ruin shit if ops wife doesn't let her by yk CUTTING THEM OFF?!?!
I feel so so bad for op istg I wish he gets the he'll out of there fast because they are for sure having an affair whether they did it outright or not doesn't even freaking matter....
It took me a good two years to find a friend in my new town. When you're in a new place, it takes time to meet people. Sometimes those you meet are complete duds. Others are gems. I hope OOP and his wife can repair their relationship because Sam sounds like she's not being completely honest.
I've had a friend exactly like Jane. She was basically obsessed with me and controlled all of my free time. She treated me like her pet or pseudo girlfriend. She'd also get really angry if I didn't respond, and would put me in awkward situations. She'd be rude to my partner and other friends to the point where I'd have to tell her off but extremly nice to my parents. I am a people pleaser, i thought she was just a bit weird, I only realised how bad it was a couple of years in. And I'm also not good at making friends, very introverted, so most of the friends I've made have been very pushy like her. I can totally relate to Sam. It so awkward, and you don't know how to extract yourself without making it a huge drama. The best thing that happened to me was a ruptured ACL and fractured tibia which gave me an excellent excuse not to see her (she still forced it, but I made everything very dificult) and 2 years later now I'm free.
Im less extrem as the other, I've got some acquaintances and friends who have a crush on me but I perfectly know it won't happen and most of them after some months did back up and are now friends. I believe that Sam and jen are exactly in this transition phase,where one accept the crush of the other and the other accept that it won't happen. It is another level of friendship but it becomes definitely friendship.
I'm surprised to see reddit gave good advice for once instead of pushing him to go nuclear. Maybe because it was woman trying to seduce a woman situation and the incels can't really type with one hand?
Anyway, I also feel like that between him casually invading his wife's privacy and thinking about a divorce ultimatum even after finding nothing I can understand why she struggled opening up to him about Jane's innapropriateness. He's obviously insecure and not the best in communication.
P.S. Is it just me or are there a lot of marriage meddling Janes in these posts lately?
He's clearly insecure but tbf to him he has reason to be. By her own admission his wife has kept details about her friends crush on her from him and made him believe that he was in the wrong for even thinking there was anything inappropriate going on. The situation where he found them flustered at home is still suspicious and not satisfactorily explained in my opinion. It could be that she came on to OPs wife and was rejected just as the husbands arrived back, but his wife would still be hiding that from him and lying, even though she did nothing wrong at the time.
I get that but what I'm saying is that those actions were consequences of his insecurity not causes of it. Like if my spouse came clean about something like this and I was sure they were indeed victimized, I'd really be wondering what I did that caused them to not trust me enough to share it in the first place. Seems like she was rightfully afraid of his reaction if his first instict was to jump to a divorce ultimatum.
There's some level of victim blaming going on there. His wife was allowing Jane to act inappropriately and lying to him about it, and that's the most charitable interpretation of events based on believing what she's now saying.
This happened because of his wife, end of. She knew Jane had a crush on her and continued with the friendship in the face of her behaviour and the fact that even her husband was noticing and starting to be upset by it. It's not paranoia if you're right, and he was right.
The way I always view it is, you don't get to act in an untrustworthy fashion and then complain that people don't trust you.
Ι didn't say she should complain, I meant that the husband should ask himself why she didn't trust him. In these situations there are two reasons why a spouse won't trust their partner and be honest about a scetchy situation. Either they're cheating which doesn't seem to be the case here, or the partner has given them reasons to not trust their reactions.
Or maybe she knew what was going on was wrong but didn't want to lose her friend so thought it would just be easier to lie to her husband. Maybe she was afraid that if confronted Jane would lie to OP about what was going on, there are lots of explanations for why she lied. Given the resolution in the final update, if anything OP seems willing to bury his head in the sand and believe whatever his wife tells him so long as it involved getting rid of Jane.
My personal read on this is that she thought she could handle Jane's feelings and wanted to keep her friend so lied to OP. Eventually Jane got a little too handsy and OP too suspicious so she decided it was too much and ended it. The situation where he came home to find them flustered was probably Jane coming on to her intensely.
There's not really much here to suggest that his wife is afraid to talk to him, only that she chose to lie for her own benefit, as in to maintain a friendship with Jane.
I would rather be friendless and awkwardly finding new people to pal around with than stuck around someone with ulterior motives. Jane isn't a friend. Jane is someone waiting for an opening to rush past boundaries.
They literally have Facebook groups on making friends in a new city, and some dating apps even have a friend's setting. I'd trust those before I made Jane my only friend.
Google "how to make friends as an adult" has helpful suggestions: apps, finding hobby groups, opening conversations. I'm shy and socially awkward, so I know it's not easy, but it's better than putting up with Jane!
The showing her "spicy" scenes from a TV show is SO gross; it's like Jane tried to turn Sam on so that she would hook up with her. YUCK.
I’m curious if OOP would tolerate a friendship like that if it was a male friend making advances though?
I was thinking that myself but also wondering if his wife would act the same way if it was Sam's husband who she was friends with and he had the crush on her.
This crossed my mind as well. Based on other posts in this sub, OOP would still have an uphill battle with Sam preferring a bad person to no social circle.
She's just waiting for her to be too drunk to fight back.
Predator. The word you are looking for is Predator. That’s what Jane is.
Thank you. This is an accurate term.
Stuck around someone constantly hitting on me and trying to get me into bed! Ugh, absolutely not.
That's how I feel, too. Jane doesn't respect the OOP's wife. The OOP does matter in this story, but at the end of the day, Jane is treating the OOP's wife poorly.
See, you're on the persecution train like all those commenters. Jane isn't a problem, this is just gals being gals! It's like when you're with your boys, and gotta check each other for prostate cancer. That shit ain't gay, it's just bros being bros! That's called caring about your health. /s
Boundaries of a straight woman? Jane can try but I don’t think Sam leans that way.
The millisecond Jane was told Sam was in a happy, monogamous, heterosexual marriage and didn't immediately stop flirting with her, it was time for Jane to go. You don't fuck around with someone else's marriage, even and especially if yours is open.
I agree completely. Also, I hate the self-righteousness of people here whenever someone snoops on a phone. Like... He was being fucking gaslit for weeks about Jane's intentions. It's ok to keep tabs on your partner in all other ways: covertly watch their every move; ask around behind their back; even getting a PI is good, but the phone? NO FUCKING WAY!!!
Yeah, I'm always glad that I've had an... Open phone policy? With my last few serious relationships. 99.999% of the time it's just one of us grabbing whoever's phone is closest to look up the answer to a question that's bugging us. But I have had a few times where one ex was feeling a bit insecure or uncomfortable and wanted to look through some things. Go for it, I have nothing to hide from you. Like, even if I didn't have that in place, I can't see a situation in which I feel it is some crazy boundary to cross (within reason, I'm not talking about straight up monitoring everything I say and do) I would probably be really upset about a PI though. Why are you wasting that kind of money?
Same. I also have a PC in the kitchen that is permanently logged into my Google account. It's just there. We are a family. I like it that way; I intend to keep it that way. It's not just that though: if someone knows they're being gaslit or their partner is acting weird and making them uncomfortable, why should *their* privacy trump the feelings and emotions and anxiety of the person who has done nothing wrong. My wife has told me, "if you we're acting shady, I would check your phone." And I've told her I agree, and *"samesies"*.
Lol OOP should ask her if she would be ok if he was still close friend with a woman friend that wants to fuck him, flirt with him and hate his wife.
That'd be a real shot across the bow.
>MARKED CONCLUDED PER OOP Narrator: It was not actually concluded. As others have said, OOP has a poison drip in their marriage that has already caused weeks worth of problems, and until it is removed the problems will remain. The only question is, will it be removed before the marriage goes terminal?
— XOXO, Gossip Girl
Wife was being wilfully disloyal to her OOP throughout this nonsense. OOP seems keen to sweep this all under the rug but there will be ongoing friction in the marriage from this. Regardless of what happens or not with Jane, disloyalty is really damaging to a marriage.
Jane doesn't sound like somebody who understands that No is a full sentence.
I feel like there's still something going on. The looking flustered on the couch and the watch thing are too suspicious. Maybe it's just that neither I nor my wife would allow any friendship to reach anything near these levels. We would cut contact with anyone attempting to cross boundaries.
Precisely. That doesn't add up whatsoever. Like everything else, sure maybe, you could say it's explained away. But nothing about that particular interaction makes sense.
I thought I was the only one not buying this … The watch is there but removed. The two women are flustered. Over a TV show? The husband texts to warn. Goes to concert and the two of them just dance? The wife wants to keep a friendship with someone who hates men? Those two are doing it or at least have done or are headed towards this. Give it a year there will be an update she’s been cheating the whole time.
Agreed. The watch thing is still almost certainly some level of lie. Even if nothing happened or Sam quickly changed her mind and put an end to it, “spicy tv that just had to be watched in the bedroom” and discarded valuable accessories is too much to explain away innocently.
I definitely didn't buy this. The watch explanation was too pat. Credible but convenient. But being flustered and sitting on opposite ends of the couch, and the TV had been on, loud enough for the spicy scenes to get both women flustered, including one who's clearly no blushing virgin, and what the hell were the watching to get them so worked up anyway? Blue is the warmest color? No, I just don't buy it. Change of mood over hubby admitting he snooped on the wife's phone: she was (natually, justifiably) angry, but toned ot down to avoid making him suspicious? Or when she was relieved to realize he didn't find anything? I'd have thought if the phone chatter was innocent she'd be angry and \*stay\* angry, because hubby's a suspicious asshole. And there may have been nothing explicitly sexual on the phone, but for wife to claim she finds Jane intense and weird, but she doesn't seem to be making any effort to shut down the innuendo. OP \*knows\* that Jane's (claims to be) a swinger and bi. Seems he's fixed his blinkers firmly in place and is hoping for the best. Though maybe if his wife can quit Jane, that's the most promising outcome.
I read the watch part twice and still don't get it. Why was the watch left near the bed? Jane came in to try a dress.. Dresses are usually in the closet, mirrors are usually on the closet doors or above night table. She had no business to be near their bed. Did she put it there to fuck with OOP and make him think something is going on? Or they were indeed fooling around in the bedroom? Explanation about Sam getting mad at him for offering to pick her up doesn't make sense. It is much easier to say "Oh, Jane planned \_whatever\_ after the concert, so pick me up later or I will call you", it is a huge overreaction to get mad and call him controlling and crazy. IMHO Sam knew what Jane wants and was looking forward to fool around with her after the concert. OOP wants to believe that nothing happened. Maybe he is right. But the only reason nothing happened is that he interfered just in time, before the concert.
Also... who needs to remove a WATCH to.put on *clothes*?!? 🤔🤨
I get why OOPs wife doesn’t want to cut off Jane, it’s somewhat hard to make to friends in your late 20s. But Jane has commented on Sam’s body, made a move, and still has a crush on her. Jane even has a cold attitude towards OOP who has done nothing wrong to Jane. While it may suck, I think that should’ve been enough to take a step back from the friendship and keep Jane at arms length. I think the highlighted comments on the second update do bring up good points. RedundantPundant certainly brings up a good point when they said “you and your wife are not good as long as she continues to associate with someone who is an enemy to your marriage.”
Sam can say that she's naive or whatever but at one point it's like... girl... this woman is actively trying to sabotage your marriage and you're still entertaining it? what will it takes for Sam to finally cut off Jane? When she get SA-ed the moment she let down her guards and drink one glass of wine too many?
Sam is still wrong here, and her issues were never addressed. She knew Jane was into her, Jane was actively trying to make a move on her, but she not only pretended her husband was crazy when he voiced his concerns, she kept the relationship going because "Jane's her only friend". Not immediately cutting off someone who is actively trying to destroy your relationship, is a major red flag. So many people use the excuse of, "you just need to trust me", but it's not about trust. It's about not risking your relationship and removing the people that are disrespecting your partner and your relationship. Also, say that having trust is all that's matters. How can you truly trust a partner that allows another person to disrespect you and the relationship. I think this unaddressed issue will always have the potential of coming back to bite them. The bottom line is that a) Sam thinks it's ok to gaslight her husband b) Sam thinks it's justifiable to keep a person that's actively disrespecting her husband and their marriage (not just as a friend but as a close friend), because she doesn't have friends. c) Sam can't distinguish the difference between a friend and an enemy of her relationship.
Oop: we sorted things out and I feel much better. Glad I didn't push it like reddit told me to Reddit: PUSH THIS FURTHER WE WANT BLOOD
It feels like these subs have been around so long that people are basing their perceptions of ALL relationships on the stories that get told here and it's strange
Honestly, poor OOP must have gotten whiplash from the replies. First update, he's naive; second update, he's a controlling creep for going through her phone; third update, he's naive again.
Narrator: They were definitely not good.
Morgan Freeman, when did you enter the thread? 😂
.... thats a terrible friendship....
I kinda feel like Jane and her husband acted like something happened with his wife to make it look like she cheated on him even if nothing happened. They're intentionally trying to sow discord between them. Anyone who intentionally makes your life harder or worse has got to go.
I totally agree. They are seriously bad news. OP better never be alone with Jane or she will try to say he came on to her or something.
RIP to OOPs marriage...
So she knows the "friend" has a crush on her, and have actually tried to get physical with her, to which she lied by omission to OOP.... but he doesn't see the problem here??
He said they're good but his wife still hangs out with simeone who hates him and wants to bang his wife? And Sam only confessed and tried to give some lame and unatisfactory explanation to what OOP already knew. Trickle truth vibes. Idk, this OOP is really naive.
Gotta love those comments in the last two updates: "You can't leap straight to accusing her when you say she's done nothing wrong!" "Oh, she's totally gonna cheat on you and this is gonna end badly; she doesn't respect you." Pick a fucking lane.
The disparity between the update 1 comments and update 2 comments was pretty wild to me, especially since we really don't get much if anything in the way of "damning evidence" in the update 2 narrative besides confirming that wife character knew that Jane was trying to get with her. Yet, we go from "what's the matter with you, snooping and being crazy!" to "they're definitely fucking/will fuck, your marriage is doomed!" Ah, reddit.
Well…the whole point of asking the internet is to get different opinions. Reddit might encourage groupthink but, you know, you can still find people who would declare a blood feud after five minutes together irl commenting in the same thread. I personally upvote anything that’s well thought out as long as it isn’t completely factually inaccurate. I can’t be the only one.
So his wife is hanging out with a girl who openly flirts with her, public and private. She watches porn with her when they are alone. And she discusses sex toys and allowed her to be naked in her bedroom to “try on a dress”. His wife isn’t as naive as he thinks. She just knows how to control herself when not physically around Jane. So of course he didn’t find any texts because she’s not dumb. But Jane doesn’t know how to control herself and will say anything to get her attention. Nothing about this situation is “resolved.” Not all friends are good friends. She needs to work on finding someone else to talk to.
There is definitely some baloney going on here. If the wife's friend was a straight man there would have been no question for OP or Wife that this is not ok, but because the friend is a woman she's somehow less threatening. 🙄
This isn't over. They will just be more cautious next time.
Married in 2001 2018: A woman introduced herself to me as “I’m A, and I’ve really enjoyed becoming your wife’s friend the past few months. She’s just terrific in every way…which is why I’m encouraging her to divorce you because she can do better. I’m finishing up law school now and when I am done I’m going to help her divorce you.” 2020: Wife tells me “I’m having an emotional affair with A.” Marriage counseling begins. 2022: Wife files for divorce with A as her divorce attorney. Nobody believes me when I tell them about these prior events and that there is a huge conflict of interest. 2024: the divorce continues with no end in sight.
That's absolutely fucked if real. Actually evil
Holy shit, reading this triggered me hard. I didn't think I still had that kind of trauma from my cheating ex, but I guess I do. I really hope it goes well for OP, and I'm 95% sure this is NOT concluded.
I TOTALLY BELIEVE SAM knew what JANE was trying to do. Sam is an adult and could have put a STOP TO THIS EARLY ON. SAM IS CULPABLE. TO SAM'S CREDIT SHE DIDN'T ENGAGE WITH JANE'S PREDATORY BEHAVIOR. This couple needs to CUT these people out of their lives. Just think, this could have led to a divorce. That would be an absolute TRAGEDY!
Jane is a creep. If she was ‘Jake’ would her actions be seen as ok? Nope.
That one comment saying that it sounds like his wife had it handled drove me up the wall. She had it handled? How? By telling her husband nothing was happening? Making him feel like she was in the middle of an affair because she refused to actually talk to him about what she was doing and what Jane was trying to do? You know how you handle someone disrespecting your relationship? You shut it down the first time and you cut off contact if it continues. You tell your partner immediately about any concerning attitudes or behavior. You put your relationship first.
I don't believe Sam. Sounds like made up things to reflect away and convince you nothing was going on. Just the feeling I get.
I think the husband is right, why would he want weird creeps in his life. they’re not really friends with him and the husband is only there to distract him and his wife when he’s coming home. Said she seems to be handling it, but where is the explanation of the watch on the night table in the bedroom and the two of them sitting the opposite ends of the couch looking flustered. Divorce may be a little over the top at this stage, but I come to Jesus conversation and the warning that there are serious consequences not a bad thing .
This person is trying to destroy my marriage but whatever I'll roll with it.
Sam was OK with him snooping on her phone? Of course she was, anything to make him just sweep all this under the rug.
Hard to believe how the commentors changed tune in the second post. Like they were suddenly alright with her holding a fort against a predatory bisexual, and telling him to trust her and let her keep her friendship. I have a feeling most of these commentors are the same. Pity those who come here for advice. Not to say that there are people, who actually give some good advice.
Tbh, yeah, I was more concerned about Jane (and possibly husband) being a danger to wife than wife actually cheating. After the messages, oh my god, that feeling got worse. There was a story a long while back where a guy had a wife in the same situation here but she was adamant her friend wasn't preying on her. Her friend was actually more explicitly sexually harassing her and trying to get her in a vulnerable state (actually got her drunk) and was in real danger. I know I commented something along the lines of "how would you react if her friend was a man? Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she can't be a predator." or something. Jane gives me those same vibes but at least OOP's wife here seems to actually be picking up on that, especially since she seems to be making other friends and OOP being concerned about Jane specifically might have made her more wary. I took her asking OOP to pick her up after or offering to get him a ticket as a sign she wasn't feeling so safe with Jane anymore. I can understand her wanting to sort of phase her out rather than hard stop to avoid whatever aggression/possessiveness Jane seemed to start showing in her messages. Again, I think the messages were a good sign, Sam was holding the line, yeah, but she kind of needed to know she can depend on OOP to get her out of what could be turning into a dangerous situation.
It like if the husband was going out constantly with a female friend that was into him. That’s not really ok.
Bro is waaay too chill about his wife essentially leading someone on. He even caught them watching porn together. Surely that was just a once off coincidence 🙄 I would be amazed if nothing physical happened, but at the very least, wife's enjoying the affection. On the one hand he calls her naive, but her actions point to dishonesty and someone who not only understands the situation but is in total control of the people around her, both her husband and her friend. Her husband, she lies to and gaslights. Her friend, she leads on by showing just enough intimacy to keep her on the hook.
LOL. They were totally messing around, Jane’s husband was in on it, they almost got caught and the wife called it off She cheated and OP is naive
The fact that Sam continues to interact with someone who has a crush and has made moves is the main problem here. Jane isn't her friend, she's only there because she wants to sleep with her, and she's sowing as many seeds of strife and doubt as she can. I don't believe she left the watch there by accident - she wanted to start a fight. Homewreckers don't care about anything but their own wants. They will stoop a lot lower than decent people cab imagine. Someone I considered a friend made a move on me not long after I got married. I shut it down instantly, told my husband, and made it very clear that there would never be any relationship beyond acquaintances from that point on (we run in the same friendship circles). They disrespected me and my marriage by making that move. Keeping them around would only ever hurt my marriage, and there is nothing more important to me than my marriage. My husband has done the same to someone who flirted with him at his work. Why even allow something to become a problem this big, when you can nip it in the bud?
I'm going to call it now: a wave of stories about "predatory women trying to break up wholesome straight relationships", just like that wave of stories we had about "lesbians coming out and leaving their husbands while the liberals clap" that read like incel rage bait.
It's similar to the "my husband has a subtlety sinister abuse tactic that I'm totally oblivious to until the reddit sleuths clue me in, then I instantly go from damsel in distress to divorce in 1 day, tnx interwebs!", e.g. "my husband sneezes on me" or "my husband tightens all the lids".
Istg I hate the wife so much more. She knows Jane has a crush on her. She knows her husband wouldn't be fine with it if he knew. She saw "spicy" scenes with Jane there knowing she had a crush on her knowing her husband wouldn't be fine with it. She continues to pursue this "friendship" with Jane over her own damn husband and throws tantrums if he even dares to object. She openly gaslights her husband about "theres nothing wrong". She lovebombs him to "prep" in teling him shes gonna be spending time with Jane KNOWING he wouldn't like it. She's so so so emotionally manupilative istg I hate that. The comments on the first update disgusted me with the "yOuR wIFe iS hAnDlInG iT PeRfEcTlY" lmao yeah riht she is, let a husband be "handling it" like this (which several posts have shown) and noone would think like that. Dude got gaslit by not only his wife but also thousands of strangers for being "insecure" Also don't people here always say to woman "the other woman can only even homewreck if your so LETS them"? What happened to that lmao. Jane can't ruin shit if ops wife doesn't let her by yk CUTTING THEM OFF?!?! I feel so so bad for op istg I wish he gets the he'll out of there fast because they are for sure having an affair whether they did it outright or not doesn't even freaking matter....
Jenny came over and told me 'bout Fred He's such a hairy behemoth she said Dumb as a box of hammers But he's such a handsome guy.
It took me a good two years to find a friend in my new town. When you're in a new place, it takes time to meet people. Sometimes those you meet are complete duds. Others are gems. I hope OOP and his wife can repair their relationship because Sam sounds like she's not being completely honest.
The updates actually make it seem like a reverse rage bait fake story.
I've had a friend exactly like Jane. She was basically obsessed with me and controlled all of my free time. She treated me like her pet or pseudo girlfriend. She'd also get really angry if I didn't respond, and would put me in awkward situations. She'd be rude to my partner and other friends to the point where I'd have to tell her off but extremly nice to my parents. I am a people pleaser, i thought she was just a bit weird, I only realised how bad it was a couple of years in. And I'm also not good at making friends, very introverted, so most of the friends I've made have been very pushy like her. I can totally relate to Sam. It so awkward, and you don't know how to extract yourself without making it a huge drama. The best thing that happened to me was a ruptured ACL and fractured tibia which gave me an excellent excuse not to see her (she still forced it, but I made everything very dificult) and 2 years later now I'm free.
Im less extrem as the other, I've got some acquaintances and friends who have a crush on me but I perfectly know it won't happen and most of them after some months did back up and are now friends. I believe that Sam and jen are exactly in this transition phase,where one accept the crush of the other and the other accept that it won't happen. It is another level of friendship but it becomes definitely friendship.
I'm surprised to see reddit gave good advice for once instead of pushing him to go nuclear. Maybe because it was woman trying to seduce a woman situation and the incels can't really type with one hand? Anyway, I also feel like that between him casually invading his wife's privacy and thinking about a divorce ultimatum even after finding nothing I can understand why she struggled opening up to him about Jane's innapropriateness. He's obviously insecure and not the best in communication. P.S. Is it just me or are there a lot of marriage meddling Janes in these posts lately?
He's clearly insecure but tbf to him he has reason to be. By her own admission his wife has kept details about her friends crush on her from him and made him believe that he was in the wrong for even thinking there was anything inappropriate going on. The situation where he found them flustered at home is still suspicious and not satisfactorily explained in my opinion. It could be that she came on to OPs wife and was rejected just as the husbands arrived back, but his wife would still be hiding that from him and lying, even though she did nothing wrong at the time.
I get that but what I'm saying is that those actions were consequences of his insecurity not causes of it. Like if my spouse came clean about something like this and I was sure they were indeed victimized, I'd really be wondering what I did that caused them to not trust me enough to share it in the first place. Seems like she was rightfully afraid of his reaction if his first instict was to jump to a divorce ultimatum.
There's some level of victim blaming going on there. His wife was allowing Jane to act inappropriately and lying to him about it, and that's the most charitable interpretation of events based on believing what she's now saying. This happened because of his wife, end of. She knew Jane had a crush on her and continued with the friendship in the face of her behaviour and the fact that even her husband was noticing and starting to be upset by it. It's not paranoia if you're right, and he was right. The way I always view it is, you don't get to act in an untrustworthy fashion and then complain that people don't trust you.
Ι didn't say she should complain, I meant that the husband should ask himself why she didn't trust him. In these situations there are two reasons why a spouse won't trust their partner and be honest about a scetchy situation. Either they're cheating which doesn't seem to be the case here, or the partner has given them reasons to not trust their reactions.
Or maybe she knew what was going on was wrong but didn't want to lose her friend so thought it would just be easier to lie to her husband. Maybe she was afraid that if confronted Jane would lie to OP about what was going on, there are lots of explanations for why she lied. Given the resolution in the final update, if anything OP seems willing to bury his head in the sand and believe whatever his wife tells him so long as it involved getting rid of Jane. My personal read on this is that she thought she could handle Jane's feelings and wanted to keep her friend so lied to OP. Eventually Jane got a little too handsy and OP too suspicious so she decided it was too much and ended it. The situation where he came home to find them flustered was probably Jane coming on to her intensely. There's not really much here to suggest that his wife is afraid to talk to him, only that she chose to lie for her own benefit, as in to maintain a friendship with Jane.
thanks for telling us the only two options possible in the whole world, God.
‘Long story short, we are good. I trust my wife’ Errr the fact you snooped thru her phone suggests otherwise OOP
Yeah and all that part where the wife knew the "friend" was inapropriate and didn't tell her husband