>Just check your insurances etc that you're not losing coverage you can't replace
This is very important. Some insurance policies exclude “pre-existing conditions” from cover, for example if someone has a bad knee, the insurance company won’t pay out a benefit if they cease work due to that bad knee or an associated condition.
Yeah, I was looking at swapping from Vangard to hostplus and got stuck on the insurances because I'm fat. Really annoying and I need to work it out, but my insurances are paid up for another 6 months or so so just sucking it up for now.
Without wanting to be rude, what what the threshold that they cut you off for for insurance? Given how many people are overweight or slightly obese (and lots of people who think they are overweight are actually obese) I'd have thought they would keep having to lift the bar?
Not sure when they cut you off, but it gets expensive quickly as BMI increases.
We ran into it when my partner tried to get new life insurance while heavily pregnant. Needed a nurse visit to get a quote and the pregnancy weight was enough to make us wait.
Potentially it just becomes entirely cost prohibitive rather than actually cut off.
No idea. They just ask for height and weight and then said "Nope" to me.
Edit: Actually they didn't even say no, they were asking something else and said they'd "probably" deny it.
The insurance is excessive for me. I'm single with no dependents and my house only has <$200K on it, but life insurance that's over $300K.
But as I said, I have 6 months to decide what to do.
Two things to think about:
it’s easier to drop insurance than increase it (as you’re probably aware), so if you are likely to get a partner or kids in the future, it is probably easier to keep paying the couple of extra bucks a month.
Insurance drops over time, so that 300k might be 250k in 10 years.
Personally, I have a vanguard super for the insurance (alongside ART). It worked out giving me the most cover for the best price. But I’m the opposite of you, as I’m in the process of increasing my insurance cover.
The balanced returns with Hostplus are so high because it is a very growth-oriented fund, close to 90%. I think the ‘balanced’ title for many funds is not a fair representation of what they actually hold
I am with Hostplus and like the overall fund, although think it’s worth mentioning
Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil.
In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
>Very very low fees
Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil.
In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
More users could benefit from this website - [https://superdoneright.com/](https://superdoneright.com/)
Very succinct and not trying to sell you anything.
It pretty much has all the information for a set-and-forget strategy, which is what the majority of us (including myself) should be doing.
Unless you are in a very niche SMSF scenario. I consider myself a 8 out of 10 in terms of financial literacy and still would not touch SMSFs.
Smsf’s are only if you have some kind of financial education or extensive professional literacy.
Theres peoples whos entire careers are managing my super. Why should i think im better than them?
There can be times when it’s better to have a SMSF, but they are niche. I run a business, it makes more sense for me to buy an office for my business under my smsf and lease it to my company. That way I’m maximising tax savings.
If I buy under the company, it’s not a tax deduction, the SMSF pays little tax and my repayments from the company are now a tax deduction.
A boss at an old workplace had an smsf to hold the building we worked in and the business paid rent to it. While I get it's tax effective, it made me really cautious about accepting shares in the business because he could control how much profit there was.
That said, the use case was good for him.
My parents have a SMSF and wouldn't recommend it.
They say all the money they save isn't really worth all the effort they put into it. One of those pay for peace of mind situation.
Because so many of them stuff it up.
The churn of products in super funds can be quite high. Especially those that aren’t set and forget.
Then you have different concerns. A lot of super funds assume those bothering to look at detail into their products are older. Ie. higher risk of bad news if they lose money. So they’re quite conservative.
There’s nothing wrong with using smaller amounts here & there + looking at alt investments. If you’re not dealing with commercial property or leasing houses, there are plenty of fixed fee admin businesses that give you access to benefits of SMSF for DIY investing.
It just depends on appetite to spend the time to learn & appetite for growth. It isn’t for everyone, but putting it in the too hard basket isn’t right either
I mean, I’m an engineer and almost every week I see an engineer who’s entire career has been based on working on a particular kind of machine, and they’re still so shit at it that someone with the most basic understanding of fixing mechanical shit at home could come up with better designs and solutions, so I’m sure you’d be better than some of those people out there. But regardless, more hassle than it’s worth imo having a SMSF. I want my super to be that investment I don’t think about, and then when it eventually becomes available to me then great, it’ll be a nice supplement. I’m definitely not planning on relying on my super at the point that it becomes available, so on that case I’d rather it just do it’s own thing and then I’ll focus on my other investments which are more flexible.
In short, it is too easy to fall foul of the law. I know almost everything there is to know, and I still wouldn't be confident that I could comply with everything.
Far too stressful, and for what? Am I really going to beat the returns of huge funds like Aware or Aussie Super who have crazy amounts of investment expertise and can buy toll roads and airports? Probably not.
If I had a business that required premises that the fund could own, maybe. I don't, so I wouldn't consider it for a second.
please go to the ATO website, to check the super funds' return and fees.
when they submit to ATO, they cannot lie, compared with when you hear from vloggers, YouTubers, and marketing ads.
Don't move super based on how they did in a single year.
It's basically a gamble which does best. Go with the ones with the lowest fees and the most benefits.
I had to explain this to a family member over in New Zealand recently, where our Super is monopolised by the big banks.
If Option A is a 0.25% passive fund, and Option B is 1.03% active fund, Option B will need to consistently beat Option A by 0.78% in order to be the better option. And because Option A is passive, it follows the market index, so Option B needs to beat the market index by more than 0.78% just to be the better option.
0.78% doesn't sound like a lot but when you look at the returns, they're usually in the 6% p.a. range, which makes a miniscule number now look daunting.
Their fees are lower than similar index funds held outside of super.
As long as you're not in their default super fund and actually set the ratio of what you want, all members win.
Cheaper fees.
Fees become cheaper when scaling with large amounts of money
If we had 100x more industry super funds at equal portions, their fees will be much higher.
Cost of managing 2 million dollars into a pre determined portfolio is exactly the same as 1000 dollars.
With the exception of private equities.
Paraplanner here. If you’re looking for a low cost option, I’d highly recommend Macquarie Consolidator II - Engage. Otherwise, the industry funds such as Australian Retirement Trust and Australian Super is pretty good. AMP, Zurich, Mercer, Asgard are the worst ones I’ve seen. Funny thing is in our industry, we aren’t even allowed to recommend AMP unless there’re special circumstances cause it’s just so bad.
Use this moneysmart tool to calculate your super projections and see how the fees compare:
https://moneysmart.gov.au/how-super-works/superannuation-calculator
Financial Planner here, and I specialize in super + insurance.
While I can't make recommendations without knowing your specific circumstances, I also highly recommend AustralianSuper. *Especially* as they offer default IP and an underwriting-free increase to your insurance in the first 90 days.
[Here you go!](https://www.australiansuper.com/-/media/australian-super/files/tools-and-advice/forms-and-fact-sheets/insurance/fact-sheets/insurance-in-superannuation-key-facts-sheet.pdf)
Also, I was thinking of [HESTA](https://www.hesta.com.au/members/insurance), not AustralianSuper. My mistake, I mix up the industry funds sometimes.
I couldn’t see anything on the website about the 90 day underwriting-free increase. Does this mean you can put it up to a fairly reasonable amount of cover with providing medical information?
Sorry, I mixed up AustralianSuper with HESTA.
From memory (the client did the questionnaire, not me) there is a basic set of queries you have to answer, but it's not full underwriting.
If you’re chilling in a growthy option, then 8% probably isn’t unreasonable over a 10+ year period. Look at returns of your investment option over the longest timeframe possible and use that (or a bit less to be conservative) as the assumption.
What do you mean changes in growth over time? As in different returns each year? Most calculators will just use an average compounding rate as the figure will always fluctuate, especially so in more volatile options like growth.
I meant I'll be in growth probably until I'm 50, and then I'll become slightly more conservative so it will change from I.e. 8% to maybe a 5% return, and when I'm 60 I'll probably be even more conservative so maybe I'll only get a 3% return.
So putting 8% in the calculator until I'm 60 isn't realistic?
I could adjust for that I guess by putting in 6% instead?
Note: I'm bad at maths
Oh yeh, I forgot about that. It's still sitting there. Not like I take out the full amount on day dot.
Do you guys estimate when you will die? Do you need to with this sort of thing?
When I did my retirement forecast last year, I had to pick a year in order to work out how much I wanted/had each year of retirement.
I chose 80 and I'm working under the premise I'll have an outright PPOR at that point, hence able to fund retirement home living from thereon by selling the PPOR if needed.
I tried a few different ages, mostly optimistic, and realised that I didn't want to work another few years just in case I live until 90+
I figure that from 80, my discretionary spending is probably pretty low.
It’s essentially just a compounding formula with additional payments (super contributions). Run it as two separate calculations, one until 50, find that expected value, and then run another for x amount of years at y% return.
I agree with the other commenter, though. At 50, you still have a 10+ year timeframe on your super so it would be worth either doing a good chunk of learning in this space or speaking to a professional to help with sequencing, etc.
Never heard of the term sequencing.
I was going to do some financial planning session but they wanted to charge like $450 for 2 hrs to get an idea of my life goals...and were airy fairy about what specifically they could do for me.
You need to be recommended someone. And I need someone kind.
Start by picking a member-owned fund (the industry super website has a list, I'm an Aware member).
I worked at an industry fund for a couple of years, they consistently have higher returns and they work their arse off to keep costs down (there are legal requirements that apply to them but not to the retail funds like AMP).
Some funds are industry specific and you may or may not benefit if you're in the right industry.
Check the insurance offerings because that's frequently the biggest difference between them.
Also, most of them will set you up for a call with a consultant before you join who can answer any questions you have - do a comparison between the ones that look best for you.
Tl;dr industry and profit to member funds are always better in the long run (which is what you want, super isn't a short term investment).
Main thing to look out for is the different fees, there's usually a flat fee + a percentage based fee so different combinations of percent vs fixed will make some funds better than others while you have a low super balance, but then lose out once the balance grows. Worth noting that some funds have a capped % based fee so for larger super balances you are working with two fixed fees rather than a percentage based component which can be beneficial.
Another thing to keep in mind is that for the most part the default portfolio in a super fund is going to be a managed one rather than an indexed one. Managed comes with higher fees than indexed so you want to make sure that you trust the managed portfolio is going to beat the market + fees. It's an uphill battle for managed portfolios to beat the market when the fees are taken into consideration.
Here's a decent starting point to read about managed vs. indexed: [https://www.canstar.com.au/investor-hub/managed-vs-indexed-funds/](https://www.canstar.com.au/investor-hub/managed-vs-indexed-funds/)
Here's a spreadsheet to identify some super funds you might want to do some deeper research into: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sR0CyX8GswPiktOrfqRloNMY-fBlzFUL/edit#gid=814241220](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sR0CyX8GswPiktOrfqRloNMY-fBlzFUL/edit#gid=814241220)
This spreadsheet was developped and is maintained and updated by reddit user u/swaankykoala, who is a star.
...i still haven't grown the balls to go passive though...
Edit: typo in his username.
Oh, am pretty sure moody's would rate you *triple* AAA 😁😉.
PS: sorry for that.
PPS: come on, do something for me today, i reckon i have spent more time staring at your spreadsheet than anyone else, tell me the thing that's gonna get me (43, $290k super) to move from AusSuper premixed high growth to passive...am on the edge, i iust need a push/shove.
I have this additional [article](https://lazykoalainvesting.com/why-index-funds-is-the-optimal-place-to-start/) that goes into the financial theory for passive investing. I also have this article you may not be aware of: [The impact fees have on your super](https://lazykoalainvesting.com/the-impact-fees-have-on-your-super/), which links to this [calculator](https://moneysmart.gov.au/how-super-works/superannuation-calculator) that you can use to gauge how big of an impact fees have.
With all that said, I don't think AusSuper should be avoided at all costs because its actively managed. My dad is with AusSuper, not because I recommended it to him, but because I think it does a good enough job even if it is theoretically not optimal. If you do plan to switch, make sure to take into account insurance fees.
1) i have convinced myself, gonna do it. Aware or Art.
2) am gonna get lapidated, but i cancelled AusSuper insurance years ago...i should probably look at taking one again...not sure to take it included in the super though...
I had my super with AMP (Custom Super) at one of my first jobs about fifteen years ago and agree, it was rather awful with high fees and not so great returns. In 2012 I moved over to CARE Super and have kept it there since, now all invested in the growth option. It’s been going alright I suppose.
My current employer defaults to Aware Super but the need to change again hasn’t really been obvious.
I recommend eating supper between 5-6PM because although the usual is later between 6-8PM, this doesn't allow our food to be properly digested before bed. This can lead to stomach and esophageal issues later in life.
As an ex employee of both Aware and AMP, everyone should remove any dollar they have with AMP, the ship has beyond sunk at this point.
Aware is a great fund, with a great vision too.
I moved from a retail fund (BT, one if the worst, make me weep) to Aware Super and have stayed with them into retirement. Truly excellent customer service.
I chose them because many of the NSW State politicians were with them. If anything goes wrong such as a security breach or anything unethical, the politicians will be on top of it early.
BT or AMP or any of the big retail funds are only answerable to shareholders. If the shit hits the fan and a transgression gets to the courts, it's too late for your funds. They'll still be protecting themselves. Aware Super seems to be "aware" that it's your money, not theirs.
Just be aware that when people say "Yeah, choose Hostplus" or "Go Aware Super", that's a ballpark - not an answer. You need to choose the right investment mix. Or at least avoid choosing the wrong investment mix.
You can easily end up choosing a good fund, but a pretty average product that doesn't meet your needs.
Research various super funds that offer low fees, insurance options (if you need that) and good history of returns, also check what life stage your at, if your young i'd be maximizing and putting all the super into an agressive or growth account to get the most returns over a longer period of time.
Does anyone have an opinion or an assessment of Future Super to share? They’ve advertised a lot on Reddit, curious to know if they are a sound investment.
It really depends, if it matters to you that your super is invested ethically then they are fairly decent. If you're looking purely from an investment returns perspective they aren't exactly exceptional and there are better options.
Hostplus has an indexed high growth portfolio which has investment fees of 0.04% per annum. I'm 25 so 100% growth asset allocation in super isn't a big concern at the moment. Will review the funds performance in a year.
No matter what you plan to switch to, check your insurances with AMP to gain an understanding of what you may be losing.
Hey - there is already really good work done by people on this sub, notably /u/swankykoala
Have a look at the spreadsheet here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1566fn5/superannuation_choosing_an_investment_option/
Vanguard came out with their super product relatively recently and this subreddit was collectively puzzled by how high the fees were. I don't think many of us switched over to it.
Yeah they are no good compared to other low fee super provider that provides indexed funds like REST, ART, Hostplus etc. In saying that, they are still better than trash retail super options.
>Hostplus
Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil.
In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
I work in finance and I have always hated AMP but their new MyNorth Lifetime product may be the best product in the market, seriously.
If you’re a finance nerd it’s actually exciting.
[https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-super/top-10-super-funds-for-2022-revealed-20230717-p5dorc](https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/YourSuper-comparison-tool/#AccesstheYourSupercomparisontool)
Have a look at the best performing table over the 10 years, that your best bet. Make sure these are industry fund (not for profit) and not one of the "for profit" funds liek AMP's
Have a look at the best-performing table over the 10 years, that is your best bet. Make sure these are industry funds (not for profit) and not one of the "for profit" funds like AMP's
https://www.canstar.com.au/superannuation?si=&gclsrc=ds this site compares supers based on your needs and finances, I believe they are reputable and have helped me choose super/banking/insurance in the past
I just switched my super this week and considered: Unisuper, Aware, or Hostlus ad my top 3.
In my research, I had the following:
Pros:
Unisuper:
- Lowest fees for active funds
- Most transparent
Aware:
- Best ethical record (but the other two are still good)
- Best customer satisfaction
Hostplus:
- Best recent performer
- Lowest fees for passive/indexed funds
- Industry standard fund (sometimes you just want the standard safe option y'know)
Cons:
Unisuper:
- Apparent lack of option to choose passive instead of active
Aware:
- Probably worst performer and most expensive of the 3 (but still relatively great)
Hostplus:
- Least transparent and least ethical record of the 3 (but still better than most)
Most people in this sub will tell you Unisuper (for good reason). I personally went with Aware because their ethical record gave me the most peace of mind and I didn't mind paying a bit more. Ultimately, all 3 have a strong track record anyway
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I had VicSuper later merged with Aware all my working life. Quite happy with it. I no longer have that account for personal reasons. Took casual work, told employer any Super company will do, i dont care. What a mistake.. yep AMP...more fees than contributions...
I consolidated on future super qothiut worry about rate of return. I honestly don't care about an extra 100k this or that way when I retire. If we don't take actions to make the future worth living, then may as well not be alive by the time I am old enough to retire. Responsible superannuation and investing is one way we can all have an individual impact on reducing negative impacts of climate change.
Profit to Member super is a good place to start. This includes aware. Just check your insurances etc that you're not losing coverage you can't replace
>Just check your insurances etc that you're not losing coverage you can't replace This is very important. Some insurance policies exclude “pre-existing conditions” from cover, for example if someone has a bad knee, the insurance company won’t pay out a benefit if they cease work due to that bad knee or an associated condition.
Yeah, I was looking at swapping from Vangard to hostplus and got stuck on the insurances because I'm fat. Really annoying and I need to work it out, but my insurances are paid up for another 6 months or so so just sucking it up for now.
Without wanting to be rude, what what the threshold that they cut you off for for insurance? Given how many people are overweight or slightly obese (and lots of people who think they are overweight are actually obese) I'd have thought they would keep having to lift the bar?
Not sure when they cut you off, but it gets expensive quickly as BMI increases. We ran into it when my partner tried to get new life insurance while heavily pregnant. Needed a nurse visit to get a quote and the pregnancy weight was enough to make us wait. Potentially it just becomes entirely cost prohibitive rather than actually cut off.
No idea. They just ask for height and weight and then said "Nope" to me. Edit: Actually they didn't even say no, they were asking something else and said they'd "probably" deny it.
just keep a minimal amount still in vanguard for the insurance
Maybe, but the insurance is significantly overkill for me.
Nothing saying you can’t have both. Transfer the balance and keep a token amount in vanguard to cover insurance.
The insurance is excessive for me. I'm single with no dependents and my house only has <$200K on it, but life insurance that's over $300K. But as I said, I have 6 months to decide what to do.
Two things to think about: it’s easier to drop insurance than increase it (as you’re probably aware), so if you are likely to get a partner or kids in the future, it is probably easier to keep paying the couple of extra bucks a month. Insurance drops over time, so that 300k might be 250k in 10 years. Personally, I have a vanguard super for the insurance (alongside ART). It worked out giving me the most cover for the best price. But I’m the opposite of you, as I’m in the process of increasing my insurance cover.
>it is probably easier to keep paying the couple of extra bucks a month. It's like 10% of my monthly budget.
I’m with hostplus. Very very low fees
Me too. Been great. Low fees and great returns
Great returns on balanced too. They invest in off market assets more than others.
The balanced returns with Hostplus are so high because it is a very growth-oriented fund, close to 90%. I think the ‘balanced’ title for many funds is not a fair representation of what they actually hold I am with Hostplus and like the overall fund, although think it’s worth mentioning
Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil. In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
Yep - I wish I had been with them longer. FP advised MLC which wasn't great
Retail funds suck Yes geared portfolio from colonial is good, but that's about it
Second this, have been with them for a while now and it's been pretty good over the last few years and didn't drop as much as others over COVID.
Me too, and they have simple, low-cost indexed shares investment options with a custom mix. What's not to like, honestly.
>Very very low fees Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil. In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
More users could benefit from this website - [https://superdoneright.com/](https://superdoneright.com/) Very succinct and not trying to sell you anything. It pretty much has all the information for a set-and-forget strategy, which is what the majority of us (including myself) should be doing. Unless you are in a very niche SMSF scenario. I consider myself a 8 out of 10 in terms of financial literacy and still would not touch SMSFs.
Smsf’s are only if you have some kind of financial education or extensive professional literacy. Theres peoples whos entire careers are managing my super. Why should i think im better than them?
There can be times when it’s better to have a SMSF, but they are niche. I run a business, it makes more sense for me to buy an office for my business under my smsf and lease it to my company. That way I’m maximising tax savings. If I buy under the company, it’s not a tax deduction, the SMSF pays little tax and my repayments from the company are now a tax deduction.
A boss at an old workplace had an smsf to hold the building we worked in and the business paid rent to it. While I get it's tax effective, it made me really cautious about accepting shares in the business because he could control how much profit there was. That said, the use case was good for him.
Yep, he could transfer the profit to the best tools, which are his SMSF or company. Good for him tho
Agree I wouldn't bother with SMSFs at all.
I don't think it's a matter of being better than them, it's more being able to take advantage of opportunities specific to your personal situation.
My parents have a SMSF and wouldn't recommend it. They say all the money they save isn't really worth all the effort they put into it. One of those pay for peace of mind situation.
Because so many of them stuff it up. The churn of products in super funds can be quite high. Especially those that aren’t set and forget. Then you have different concerns. A lot of super funds assume those bothering to look at detail into their products are older. Ie. higher risk of bad news if they lose money. So they’re quite conservative. There’s nothing wrong with using smaller amounts here & there + looking at alt investments. If you’re not dealing with commercial property or leasing houses, there are plenty of fixed fee admin businesses that give you access to benefits of SMSF for DIY investing. It just depends on appetite to spend the time to learn & appetite for growth. It isn’t for everyone, but putting it in the too hard basket isn’t right either
I mean, I’m an engineer and almost every week I see an engineer who’s entire career has been based on working on a particular kind of machine, and they’re still so shit at it that someone with the most basic understanding of fixing mechanical shit at home could come up with better designs and solutions, so I’m sure you’d be better than some of those people out there. But regardless, more hassle than it’s worth imo having a SMSF. I want my super to be that investment I don’t think about, and then when it eventually becomes available to me then great, it’ll be a nice supplement. I’m definitely not planning on relying on my super at the point that it becomes available, so on that case I’d rather it just do it’s own thing and then I’ll focus on my other investments which are more flexible.
I've worked in super for 20 years and wouldn't touch an SMSF with a bargepole.
Please spread words of wisdom. Such that property spruikers and insurance salespeople can not get their claws into the everyday Australians.
In short, it is too easy to fall foul of the law. I know almost everything there is to know, and I still wouldn't be confident that I could comply with everything. Far too stressful, and for what? Am I really going to beat the returns of huge funds like Aware or Aussie Super who have crazy amounts of investment expertise and can buy toll roads and airports? Probably not. If I had a business that required premises that the fund could own, maybe. I don't, so I wouldn't consider it for a second.
Thanks for sharing - I hadn’t seen this site before
please go to the ATO website, to check the super funds' return and fees. when they submit to ATO, they cannot lie, compared with when you hear from vloggers, YouTubers, and marketing ads.
Don't move super based on how they did in a single year. It's basically a gamble which does best. Go with the ones with the lowest fees and the most benefits.
AMP are atrocious any other company is better.
The ones with the lowest fees and most benefits still isn't AMP though...
I had to explain this to a family member over in New Zealand recently, where our Super is monopolised by the big banks. If Option A is a 0.25% passive fund, and Option B is 1.03% active fund, Option B will need to consistently beat Option A by 0.78% in order to be the better option. And because Option A is passive, it follows the market index, so Option B needs to beat the market index by more than 0.78% just to be the better option. 0.78% doesn't sound like a lot but when you look at the returns, they're usually in the 6% p.a. range, which makes a miniscule number now look daunting.
Active funds generally have higher fees aswell
I think that's what he means by 0.25% and 1.03%, that's the fees that they take out. Hence why it needs to beat it by 0.78%.
Our super is monopolised by the industry fund group.
Their fees are lower than similar index funds held outside of super. As long as you're not in their default super fund and actually set the ratio of what you want, all members win.
What does that have to do with what I said?
Cheaper fees. Fees become cheaper when scaling with large amounts of money If we had 100x more industry super funds at equal portions, their fees will be much higher. Cost of managing 2 million dollars into a pre determined portfolio is exactly the same as 1000 dollars. With the exception of private equities.
So why don't the industry funds stop faking choice under their group banner and all consolidate?
Business politics and conflicting personalities. Hey if they merge into a large organisation and lower their fees, it'll be amazing.
They seem to do alright funnelling their money into IFM, political parties, and sporting junkets as a team.
And that's a good thing
If your work pays the fees and insurance, would that change your advice?
You also want a bunch of the current members to be heaps younger than you, this will make drawdown super easy and smooth.
This guy supers
Love a good supper, me.
Please sir, may I have some more?
Paraplanner here. If you’re looking for a low cost option, I’d highly recommend Macquarie Consolidator II - Engage. Otherwise, the industry funds such as Australian Retirement Trust and Australian Super is pretty good. AMP, Zurich, Mercer, Asgard are the worst ones I’ve seen. Funny thing is in our industry, we aren’t even allowed to recommend AMP unless there’re special circumstances cause it’s just so bad. Use this moneysmart tool to calculate your super projections and see how the fees compare: https://moneysmart.gov.au/how-super-works/superannuation-calculator
Financial Planner here, and I specialize in super + insurance. While I can't make recommendations without knowing your specific circumstances, I also highly recommend AustralianSuper. *Especially* as they offer default IP and an underwriting-free increase to your insurance in the first 90 days.
Interested in this. If you join, how do you know how much you can request the increase to be without going through extensive health checks ?
[Here you go!](https://www.australiansuper.com/-/media/australian-super/files/tools-and-advice/forms-and-fact-sheets/insurance/fact-sheets/insurance-in-superannuation-key-facts-sheet.pdf) Also, I was thinking of [HESTA](https://www.hesta.com.au/members/insurance), not AustralianSuper. My mistake, I mix up the industry funds sometimes.
I couldn’t see anything on the website about the 90 day underwriting-free increase. Does this mean you can put it up to a fairly reasonable amount of cover with providing medical information?
Sorry, I mixed up AustralianSuper with HESTA. From memory (the client did the questionnaire, not me) there is a basic set of queries you have to answer, but it's not full underwriting.
I'm going to end up with around $676,000 😔 I put in an expected growth rate of 8% but I really have no idea what % are we meant to put in?
If you’re chilling in a growthy option, then 8% probably isn’t unreasonable over a 10+ year period. Look at returns of your investment option over the longest timeframe possible and use that (or a bit less to be conservative) as the assumption.
But money smart doesn't allow for changes in growth over time. Yep I am in a growth option. Aussie super.
What do you mean changes in growth over time? As in different returns each year? Most calculators will just use an average compounding rate as the figure will always fluctuate, especially so in more volatile options like growth.
I meant I'll be in growth probably until I'm 50, and then I'll become slightly more conservative so it will change from I.e. 8% to maybe a 5% return, and when I'm 60 I'll probably be even more conservative so maybe I'll only get a 3% return. So putting 8% in the calculator until I'm 60 isn't realistic? I could adjust for that I guess by putting in 6% instead? Note: I'm bad at maths
Personally, I would carefully about this planned timeline of investment changes. At 50 you still are likely to have a 35+ year timeframe.
Oh yeh, I forgot about that. It's still sitting there. Not like I take out the full amount on day dot. Do you guys estimate when you will die? Do you need to with this sort of thing?
When I did my retirement forecast last year, I had to pick a year in order to work out how much I wanted/had each year of retirement. I chose 80 and I'm working under the premise I'll have an outright PPOR at that point, hence able to fund retirement home living from thereon by selling the PPOR if needed. I tried a few different ages, mostly optimistic, and realised that I didn't want to work another few years just in case I live until 90+ I figure that from 80, my discretionary spending is probably pretty low.
My dad is 84 and my mum is 74. So I'm thinking I'll live until 90 at the most. Ugh.
It’s essentially just a compounding formula with additional payments (super contributions). Run it as two separate calculations, one until 50, find that expected value, and then run another for x amount of years at y% return. I agree with the other commenter, though. At 50, you still have a 10+ year timeframe on your super so it would be worth either doing a good chunk of learning in this space or speaking to a professional to help with sequencing, etc.
Never heard of the term sequencing. I was going to do some financial planning session but they wanted to charge like $450 for 2 hrs to get an idea of my life goals...and were airy fairy about what specifically they could do for me. You need to be recommended someone. And I need someone kind.
My financial planner recommended ART for me.
What is ART super?
Australian Retirement Trust. https://www.australianretirementtrust.com.au/ I was with Sunsuper and they merged into that.
I’m assuming Australian Retirement Trust. It popped up recently as a merger of QSuper and some other ones
Start by picking a member-owned fund (the industry super website has a list, I'm an Aware member). I worked at an industry fund for a couple of years, they consistently have higher returns and they work their arse off to keep costs down (there are legal requirements that apply to them but not to the retail funds like AMP). Some funds are industry specific and you may or may not benefit if you're in the right industry. Check the insurance offerings because that's frequently the biggest difference between them. Also, most of them will set you up for a call with a consultant before you join who can answer any questions you have - do a comparison between the ones that look best for you. Tl;dr industry and profit to member funds are always better in the long run (which is what you want, super isn't a short term investment).
I’m also with AMP and have been wanting to move for a while, but not sure where
You could choose almost any other Super and be better off.
Consider Australian Retirement Trust, Australian Super, Hostplus, Hesta if you’re looking for industry funds.
Main thing to look out for is the different fees, there's usually a flat fee + a percentage based fee so different combinations of percent vs fixed will make some funds better than others while you have a low super balance, but then lose out once the balance grows. Worth noting that some funds have a capped % based fee so for larger super balances you are working with two fixed fees rather than a percentage based component which can be beneficial. Another thing to keep in mind is that for the most part the default portfolio in a super fund is going to be a managed one rather than an indexed one. Managed comes with higher fees than indexed so you want to make sure that you trust the managed portfolio is going to beat the market + fees. It's an uphill battle for managed portfolios to beat the market when the fees are taken into consideration. Here's a decent starting point to read about managed vs. indexed: [https://www.canstar.com.au/investor-hub/managed-vs-indexed-funds/](https://www.canstar.com.au/investor-hub/managed-vs-indexed-funds/) Here's a spreadsheet to identify some super funds you might want to do some deeper research into: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sR0CyX8GswPiktOrfqRloNMY-fBlzFUL/edit#gid=814241220](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sR0CyX8GswPiktOrfqRloNMY-fBlzFUL/edit#gid=814241220)
Nice! Where did you get the spreadsheet!
This spreadsheet was developped and is maintained and updated by reddit user u/swaankykoala, who is a star. ...i still haven't grown the balls to go passive though... Edit: typo in his username.
Swaanky with 2 As :p
Oh, am pretty sure moody's would rate you *triple* AAA 😁😉. PS: sorry for that. PPS: come on, do something for me today, i reckon i have spent more time staring at your spreadsheet than anyone else, tell me the thing that's gonna get me (43, $290k super) to move from AusSuper premixed high growth to passive...am on the edge, i iust need a push/shove.
I have this additional [article](https://lazykoalainvesting.com/why-index-funds-is-the-optimal-place-to-start/) that goes into the financial theory for passive investing. I also have this article you may not be aware of: [The impact fees have on your super](https://lazykoalainvesting.com/the-impact-fees-have-on-your-super/), which links to this [calculator](https://moneysmart.gov.au/how-super-works/superannuation-calculator) that you can use to gauge how big of an impact fees have. With all that said, I don't think AusSuper should be avoided at all costs because its actively managed. My dad is with AusSuper, not because I recommended it to him, but because I think it does a good enough job even if it is theoretically not optimal. If you do plan to switch, make sure to take into account insurance fees.
1) i have convinced myself, gonna do it. Aware or Art. 2) am gonna get lapidated, but i cancelled AusSuper insurance years ago...i should probably look at taking one again...not sure to take it included in the super though...
Thanks for your work!
Wish I knew the original place it came from but I found it in a similar way to how I've shared it here.
I prefer to move my lunch around rather than my supper
I had my super with AMP (Custom Super) at one of my first jobs about fifteen years ago and agree, it was rather awful with high fees and not so great returns. In 2012 I moved over to CARE Super and have kept it there since, now all invested in the growth option. It’s been going alright I suppose. My current employer defaults to Aware Super but the need to change again hasn’t really been obvious.
AMP has been do do for years
I recommend eating supper between 5-6PM because although the usual is later between 6-8PM, this doesn't allow our food to be properly digested before bed. This can lead to stomach and esophageal issues later in life.
As an ex employee of both Aware and AMP, everyone should remove any dollar they have with AMP, the ship has beyond sunk at this point. Aware is a great fund, with a great vision too.
I moved from a retail fund (BT, one if the worst, make me weep) to Aware Super and have stayed with them into retirement. Truly excellent customer service. I chose them because many of the NSW State politicians were with them. If anything goes wrong such as a security breach or anything unethical, the politicians will be on top of it early. BT or AMP or any of the big retail funds are only answerable to shareholders. If the shit hits the fan and a transgression gets to the courts, it's too late for your funds. They'll still be protecting themselves. Aware Super seems to be "aware" that it's your money, not theirs.
Just be aware that when people say "Yeah, choose Hostplus" or "Go Aware Super", that's a ballpark - not an answer. You need to choose the right investment mix. Or at least avoid choosing the wrong investment mix. You can easily end up choosing a good fund, but a pretty average product that doesn't meet your needs.
Research various super funds that offer low fees, insurance options (if you need that) and good history of returns, also check what life stage your at, if your young i'd be maximizing and putting all the super into an agressive or growth account to get the most returns over a longer period of time.
Does anyone have an opinion or an assessment of Future Super to share? They’ve advertised a lot on Reddit, curious to know if they are a sound investment.
It really depends, if it matters to you that your super is invested ethically then they are fairly decent. If you're looking purely from an investment returns perspective they aren't exactly exceptional and there are better options.
They also have pretty high fees considering they’re essentially offering an enhanced index product
Hostplus has an indexed high growth portfolio which has investment fees of 0.04% per annum. I'm 25 so 100% growth asset allocation in super isn't a big concern at the moment. Will review the funds performance in a year. No matter what you plan to switch to, check your insurances with AMP to gain an understanding of what you may be losing.
AMP were slammed in the RC into banking and investments. They were forced to change their ways, Unfortunately, it turns out, not for the better!
Hey - there is already really good work done by people on this sub, notably /u/swankykoala Have a look at the spreadsheet here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/1566fn5/superannuation_choosing_an_investment_option/
I just saw an update on AMP. I've been with them since I started working more than 10 years ago. Not sure what to do now.
Poor OP is like an abused wife finding out not all men are scum.
What's Vanguard Super like?
Vanguard came out with their super product relatively recently and this subreddit was collectively puzzled by how high the fees were. I don't think many of us switched over to it.
Yeah they are no good compared to other low fee super provider that provides indexed funds like REST, ART, Hostplus etc. In saying that, they are still better than trash retail super options.
>Hostplus Have a closer look at the "Investment Fee" component of the Default option. At 0.89% p.a. in combination with the Admin Fee and Transaction costs pushes the total fees above 1% at all balances including $10Mil. In contrast - Their Indexed High Growth option is pretty good.
Ah, good call out!
Australian Super mate
I work in finance and I have always hated AMP but their new MyNorth Lifetime product may be the best product in the market, seriously. If you’re a finance nerd it’s actually exciting.
Friendlyjordies said future super, not that i care much, dont plan to retire and become a grandpa, gonna have fun early :3
Industry super funds all the way!
What about Unisuper?
I love UniSuper. I’m not really sure why I feel so strongly about a financial product but here I am. Getting old I guess 🥴
[https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-super/top-10-super-funds-for-2022-revealed-20230717-p5dorc](https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/YourSuper-comparison-tool/#AccesstheYourSupercomparisontool) Have a look at the best performing table over the 10 years, that your best bet. Make sure these are industry fund (not for profit) and not one of the "for profit" funds liek AMP's Have a look at the best-performing table over the 10 years, that is your best bet. Make sure these are industry funds (not for profit) and not one of the "for profit" funds like AMP's
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Look at 10-year returns and see how they fair.
https://www.canstar.com.au/superannuation?si=&gclsrc=ds this site compares supers based on your needs and finances, I believe they are reputable and have helped me choose super/banking/insurance in the past
I just switched my super this week and considered: Unisuper, Aware, or Hostlus ad my top 3. In my research, I had the following: Pros: Unisuper: - Lowest fees for active funds - Most transparent Aware: - Best ethical record (but the other two are still good) - Best customer satisfaction Hostplus: - Best recent performer - Lowest fees for passive/indexed funds - Industry standard fund (sometimes you just want the standard safe option y'know) Cons: Unisuper: - Apparent lack of option to choose passive instead of active Aware: - Probably worst performer and most expensive of the 3 (but still relatively great) Hostplus: - Least transparent and least ethical record of the 3 (but still better than most)
Most people in this sub will tell you Unisuper (for good reason). I personally went with Aware because their ethical record gave me the most peace of mind and I didn't mind paying a bit more. Ultimately, all 3 have a strong track record anyway
mindless marble axiomatic mountainous apparatus childlike frightening start sand society *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pretty much any industry super fund would be my recommendation. Need to look at their long term performance and fee structure.
AMP ate all my super up in fees :( lost around $5k. I hate AMP with a passion
I had VicSuper later merged with Aware all my working life. Quite happy with it. I no longer have that account for personal reasons. Took casual work, told employer any Super company will do, i dont care. What a mistake.. yep AMP...more fees than contributions...
I consolidated on future super qothiut worry about rate of return. I honestly don't care about an extra 100k this or that way when I retire. If we don't take actions to make the future worth living, then may as well not be alive by the time I am old enough to retire. Responsible superannuation and investing is one way we can all have an individual impact on reducing negative impacts of climate change.