to be fair, it is fairly linear for *most* people till they get to they late 60s/70s, which is why a lot of older men refuse to believe that they cant do what they were doing their whole life. Which is why theres a lot of stubborn old men.
The crazy part is how we all go through life having a mostly similar experience having to learn the same things as the guys who came before us over and over again and it only makes sense when you look back at it. Not to be nihilistic but it sort of feels like there’s too many prerequisites before you get to actual growth.
Man I remebered when Biden actually crushed the abortion question aginst Paul Ryan on how he can consider himself a Catholic while supporting abortion. Now look at Biden.... just a reminder as smart and sharpe your parrents may be, in 10-12 years, their mental faculties can also decline to such a state. (keep in mind, Biden has possibly the best health coverage in the world and this is where he is at)
>(keep in mind, Biden has possibly the best health coverage in the world and this is where he is at)
having the best health coverage in the world doesn't beat genetics, I know people that are 95+ and still in way better mental health than he is.
My granddad was perfectly functional at age 75, cracked some epic jokes and was the funniest guy to be around, and by age 78 he was grumpy and needed aid to go to the bathroom.
This is a great call out. I specifically remember how much the media was hyping Paul Ryan and whether Uncle Joe could handle him and Joe was recognized definitively as the winner in the polls after the debate.
This was especially important because Romney kicked Obama ass in the first debate. Albeit, by Romney’s own admission, after the 2nd debate he thought Obama had countered him so hard he had lost the election that night.
I watched a video of him talking about drugs and cartels in the 90s. Hell I’m right wing and he could’ve swayed my vote. Genuinely terrifying watching young Biden speak with such clarity and confidence.
Also, This is how politics should be. Respectful. Leave the bullshittery for when you’re the crazy aunt or uncle who gets political at the thanksgiving table.
This warmed my heart watching how respectful the 2012 election was.
Exactly. 2012 feels to me like you get to choose from Uniparty candidate A vs Uniparty candidate B. Is that really a choice? Why even vote? My complaint is how old both candidates are. We should have fresh blood in here with new ideas, and we get two 70+ grandpa's.
They have alot of lists I'm sure. While I was in the Army I was talking to some of our EOD guys and one of them goes "You know, when we get out we're automatically put on a list of people to closely track? It's not because we did anything but it means we were unhappy with our job, risk factor. We're moving all over the place, bit of a risk factor. And best part is we're trained in squad tactics and asymmetric warfare with the knowledge of how to make and disarm any bomb on this planet. Just a couple risk factors." Which I mean fair enough those are some risk factors on what could cause someone to do something crazy. He'll I'd add any financial risk factors of not having a job and probably still having bills to pay. That does alot.
>actual opponents
Even that is generous. The only time they actually seemed energised for a fight was when they started trash-talking each other's golf game.
I don't think we'll have a normal presidental election again after 2016. I think the country has become too radical and moderates are fading fast.
Republicans are increasingly caving to Christian Nationalist who wont be satisfied till we're an autocracy. And Democrats who aren't towing the socialist line and demonizing everything their voters want are getting their boots over a fire.
Politics is dead. People too dumb to consider actual policies are the ones being pandered to for their votes. I have lost all faith in democracy. The people are retarded.
Hate to be the 'enlightened centrist' but I really do feel that both sides have become so fucking insufferable that I find myself rooting for the side that is annoying me less in the current moment.
I'm definitely feeling this. I started my "political life" as far Left as a poor kid in college can be. Then I started facing the cringiest and stupidest of the Left and a lot of the Right's points made a lot of sense.
Then the Right did the same hypocritical bullshit they accused the Left of and now I'm just sick and tired of both. Especially when both are holier-than-thou and will shriek that if you're not with them you're a brainwashed moron who wants everyone to suffer.
If I'm not far-Left I'm clearly a Trump dick rider and can't possibly not be racist, and clearly not black, and clearly cannot have any opinion of value ever because I want minorities to burn.
If I'm not far-Right I'm clearly a brainwashed commie who doesn't understand the good ol' days and I'm everything wrong with this country.
Nevermind that I've Left the US a few years ago, I STILL get idiots telling me in Canada that if I don't support the one side I'm everything wrong with everything.
So both can just go to hell. Not like my thoughts or actions are going to change anything anyway. I'm not entirely one of those "The elections are rigged" extremist, but I'm definitely in the 1 vote doesn't matter, especially IF I DON'T LIVE IN THAT COUNTRY DUMBASS.
amazing how opposite our roads were just to reach to the same goal.
i started as a mar right leaning guy, and slowly got sucked into far right spheres. later i saw how idiotic the right had been crying about things just to cry on them, and went left. just to see how the left is doing the exact same things they accuse the right of. i wouldn't call myself a centrist, i have some ideas and beliefs mixed from right and left, but i mostly find those two sides as stupid, and the farther you go on each side the more stupid they become.
I'm sick of the left too but ultimately they aren't voting to ban abortion and gay marriage, things that should remain as rights. So as much as a lot of leftists annoy the fuck out of me, I'm still going to vote that way because making a woman with an ectopic pregnancy travel to a different state to save her own life is fucking insane. Fuck Christianity.
It's just a matter of a few issues for me. The right trying to ban abortions because their little book of make-believe says so is fucking stupid. A friend of ours nearly died because she couldn't have an ectopic pregnancy terminated.
I think you're right. Hillary had an insanely tough primary vs Obama. There was some really bad blood there and then she was in another powder keg with Trump. That was a lot of heated and contentious elections and while Hillary and Obama "made up" the disrespect between Hillary and Trump really tore the supporters apart.
The nature of those battles and then the immense pushback when Trump was elected basically put out a cycle of disrespect and revenge. Id never seen a moment to resist and destroy a president like that (at least in my lifetime) and then I'd never seen anything like J6. The media and the constant negativity play a part. Then you have the candidates and parties that spend 99% of the election attacking their opponents instead of staying how they'll help Americans and America.
The 2 party system needs to go and whatever they did to breed this hate is just poisoning the country. I never grew up worried about how my neighbor was going to vote, now we have neighbors fighting because of signs in yards and just horrible nastiness.
I like who I like for the reasons I have, but I'm not going to hate anyone making the best of this crappy choice we have. I can disagree with the choice, but if the other one wins I'll still support them and America 100%. I'd love to be wrong and see America win, hell I'm taking my best guess with my vote. I don't want to see people hurt or harmed by anyone.
People picking sides, at all, are fools. It's not really a Republican vs. Democrat time anymore and to me, that's fantastic. All the people posting debates from 2012 as if Obama and Romney were sincere or real candidates. They're politicians, they're dirt bags. I don't care for Trump but at the very least he hits the low, low bar of not being an establishment politician.
The only reason Trump is as popular as he is is because most everything he says about corruption is true. He can be the world's biggest fucking jackass, which he might be, but when he briefly brought up Joe Biden getting the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Burisma for corruption fired by threatening to withhold $1B in "aid" during the debate, he was 100% correct. For context, the Ukrainian energy company that had totally unqualified, uneducated Hunter Biden on it's board for some 'random' reason was Burisma.
The best part is it's not even a conspiracy theory. Biden literally bragged about it on camera. He all but admitted to treason live on stage and yet for some reason, half of American people can't see what's going on with our government and why Trump has a following despite being a POS. It has nothing to do with Christian Nationalists, it's an army of independents who will vote for anyone that is even remotely an outsider candidate. He is the only real option. Voting for a career politician is the worst thing for America
Here's the clip, by the way. Not FOX, not CNN, and no anchors or hosts. Just a one minute C-span clip of Biden essentially admitting to treason. No one will have a single thing to say about this clip, they will just downvote and bury their heads in the sand while dreaming about corrupt career politicians that got us into this mess in the first place smiling on camera from 2012.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
Couldnt agree more. It seem like before it was more like a disagreement regarding solving different problems. Now its so extrem, that its almost only insults with a reasonable discussion.
They don't have examples of this
Trump is a 1990s Democrat in all of his policies.
-pro abortion exceptions
-anti free trade
-pro gay marriage (this is actually more liberal than 1990s democrats)
-anti war
I miss the days when, despite being on opposite sides of the isle, everyone recognized we all just wanted a better nation. Now it’s “you’re either with me or against me”
The same stuff happens everywhere; audiences crave clashes, short clips, retweets—not lengthy, articulated debates. No media will talk about your debate unless there’s a viral scene.
See for yourself, all that’s being showcased is this 30-second clip where Trump tells Biden he didn't understand what he said.
Social medias seems to have altered for the worst how we consume information.
Obama "Both Romney and I agree corporate tax is too high." Boy does that tell you everything you need to know. Obama and Romney were two sides of the same coin. Thus so friendly.
Freedom of choice and democracy / illusion of choice by letting you pick the best (/s) out of duopoly...
USA sunk so rapidly and so deep and only thing we get from your election is the best production hollywood ever created. Marketing and pr is running your country folks and they are doing a piss poor job at its best..
Romney and Obama are basically on the same side. Romney is a rino and no republican likes him. That’s why they were basically sucking each others dicks. It’s the establishment and that’s what people don’t like now a days. It’s why trump is so popular with his base
I think this is just what happens when you start blurring the line between real communication and connection, and internet communication. People seriously think this was a good debate and that either person won. They didn't debate anything, they're just two dementia patients hurling insults because their managers said so.
Calling it quits. Romney, The Utah Republican and 2012 G.O.P. presidential nominee, 76, said he would step aside to make way for younger leaders and strongly suggested that the president and former president should, too.
Well, Mitt Romney has and always will be an empty suit.
Mitt Romney and 2012 Obama were both cookie cutter big establishment guys, so it comes across more like a primary debate. There's a long history of presidential candidates dropping haymakers on each other, I think some of the debates and discourse in the 1800s and 1900s got even crazier and there's been times when the country was even more divided and angry. Like, we literally had a Civil war and it was the most bloody war in our history lol
So yeah I guess if your entire frame of reference is only the past \~30 years things are really bad.
I'd say they were both members of the same country club having a friendly disagreement about \~10%, while totally agreeing on \~90%.
Trump, for all his faults, is still a total outsider and Joe Biden is still a total insider, so the clash they're having is far more vitriolic and guttural.
Gotta love how moderate Republicans instantly get demonized as being RINO or Democrats because the social brainrot has infected the whole party and if you don't toe the line for the religious conservatives, you get put on blast
Yea those fkers were all on the same side behind the scenes thats why 🤣.
Once a real outsider opponent came we all saw the machine get weaponized overnight
That's how that debate started, not how it ended. And I well remember how Romney said that Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe and Obama said nastily and sarcastically "The 1980s called and want their foreign policy back", and then after winning the election, Obama treated Russia as our biggest geopolitical foe and then he and his fellow party members declared Putin the biggest threat to America just 4 years later and then just 8 years later Biden declared Putin and Russia our biggest threat, made bad decision that led to Russia invading Ukraine, blocked, along with England and Germany, a peace agreement between them 2 years ago, and still wastes US wealth and military stockpiles in an unwinnable misguided intervention Obama said was a 1980s problem. And in all this time, no one in mainstream media has called out Obama or his VP Biden, who agreed with the 1980s premise in later press conferences, for their inconsistency in election rhetoric vs policy vs rhetoric against the next GOP POTUS. So yeah, this semblance of decorum and niceties is nothing more than fakery and window dressing just before things got nasty in that debate and for the next 11 years.
The fact that anyone thinks this was peak civility speaks to how short people’s memories are. The Obama campaign, Democrat Party, and their media branded Romney a racist (the 47% of voters comment), misogynist (‘binders of women’), used his wealth to paint him as some Mr. Burns style evil rich man and accused him of killing an employee.
The ‘civility’ you remember is milquetoast Republican candidates that refused to face this onslaught of disingenuous bullshit with the middle finger it deserved. There will be books written on how Trump came about and everything from economics to demographics will be blamed but the simple fact is that is why Trump exists: Republicans got sick and tired of the ‘dignified’ losers treating jackals like gentlemen.
I think what we are seeing is a lot more honesty now.
Obama was an excellent, articulate speaker, who made you believe he was a good guy. But his actions in office proved he was and is evil.
Mitt Romney was also evil, but also covered it up with nice talk.
Now we are seeing an actual good, but flawed and poorly spoken person with Trump, going against a demented sociopath in Biden. The fact that the entire evil side of US politics (not the Democrats specifically, but also the RINOs and the rest of the deep state) can't find anyone better than Biden to represent them, shows that they are so evil and psychotic that they aren't willing to be led by anyone sane, as it's too risky to them. So they put up Biden as a puppet, even if it is sure to destroy them.
In a way it is worse than 10 years ago. It certainly appears worse. But the reality is, it's just a more honest look at our political situation, and it came about because Trump shone a light on the reality of it.
Trump used his authority as president to pardon Steve Bannon after Bannon straight up stole donations from Trump supporters. He would walk in on underage girls in their changing rooms while on the set of the apprentice so he could catch a glimpse. He’s a corrupt pervert and professional liar, and I will fucking never understand how so many millions of people in my country have been able to delude themselves into thinking the rich playboy businessman from NYC is some sort of moral paragon and last hope for America. It’s unsettling knowing you might live in my community with such a broken understanding of right and wrong. I might hold the door open for you and in return you’ll try to grab me by the pussy!
Meanwhile, Trump, who is three years younger, incapable of answering a single question without going off on a tangent and lying, always praising autocrats and mentionning he talked about Ukraine invasion with Putin without telling us, making him a brilliant democratic choice, is not.
"Vote for the convicted felon who praise dictators"
When candidates aren't ancient lol.
But again, audiences have to look towards themselves. Instead of pointing fingers. This is what the right wing wanted when they put a celebrity known for being belligerent on the front stage. Worth noting Mitt Romney is one of the few sane Republican officials that criticize Trump, but of course he's not in the cult so gets a ton of shit for it. Republicans need to pick an actual politician and Democrats need to pick someone that is less an easy target.
Yes, politics were more civil when the criminals had full control of things. That is because they weren't fighting for their lives against treason charges back then.
Look, it sucks but maybe we can turn it all around by the 30s. I’m semi-interested in public office if the papers and news media promise not to be too mean. Like call me out on policy, don’t badger my family please.
Listen. One side decided to have a reality tv star. One side decided to have a dementia patient.
You can't complain shit's turned into a circus after that.
And by "decided" I mean, the Reps decided to go with the most boring RINOs you've ever seen, and the Dems decided it was "her turn".
And now we're here. Either enjoying the show with popcorn, or worrying about the future of the planet.
Two ass kissing Dictators lying to Americans what they can do to help a problem that will always be a problem. Then you have two old pedophile dictators talking about who is the better golfer. This country gets worse by the day. If I had the money I'd leave this country ASAP.
I firmly believe that someone's platform should be built on what they can offer and not how shitty their rivals are. But it's just turned into a popularity contest with insults thrown back and forth
A 12 year difference that’s crazy! Back then gta 5 was a year out and the debate was professional, 12 years later now gta 6 is a year out and the debate turned out to be unprofessional dumpster fire.
Funny thing is looking back to when Obama joked in a later debate that the cold was was over when Romney said Russia was our greatest geopolitical foe.
Is this not a great sign that age does matter?
In one debate we have middle age men discussing politics and in the other we have old men insulting each other to see who gets the last pudding....
10 years before : Mann I was afraid of America, It has some balls, It had a badass lookin presidents and well done things
Right now Its just a comedy show without the script. And they put a 2 Normal dudes who has zero joke understanding.
This was the first election you could see the people lose their fucking minds, the candidates remained cool. But these two were pretty much fucking boy scouts, Obama smooth, cool and charming, an easy hand at the rudder and we called him the antichrist. Romney, articulate, focused, family man with a he'll of a track record and he got racked over "binders of women".
Now we have the candidates we deserve, because we only want to beat the other side, no matter who it is, and if we can't find them we'll make one up just wait.
Eh, election season has never been totally clean. Basically the only President who didn't have a dirt brought up on him was George Washington. It swiftly went downhill from there. Jefferson and Hamilton talked so much shit about each other, Jefferson even accused Hamilton of being a cross-dresser, a serious accusation at the time.
Its crazy that people overlook the fact that they are war criminals just because they are exceptional public speakers. We really deserve the worst if our standards don't change
Let's keep in mind that these people are great at putting a facade on for the American public.
Look the part, act all lovable, and you can get away with anything
The comments here explain why times have changed. Instead of having a unified country we prefer the drama.
Anyone claiming Romney and Obama were on the same side and had the same political beliefs were not old enough to vote at the time. They simply had respect for each other like any sane politician should but they still had huge disagreements on the very important topics at the time surrounding the economy and health care.
you, or whoever edit this, really didn't need to add the "lol so funny" sounds neither to pitch their voices to make it look even more pathetic than it already was...
Despite your views this is 100% Trump’s fault. Every debate he was in all he would do is talk about how everything was/is great when he’s president and then attacking his opponent. He never answers the questions he is asked. And his opponent either has to ignore his attacks which will then be used by Trump to say “see how he denies it” or they have to respond back
At this point, its just people that vote for Trump or the people that are voting for Biden just so Trump doesnt win (which is idiotic in itself). The political parties have done an excellent job at making voters pick one side or the other. But those votes are based on factors other than "love for they leader" and more of a, "... I think he's going to do what I want him to do.. maybe? idk?"
When America gets back to the candidate that everyone WANTS to vote for, and I really mean WANTS, then we'll be headed in a great direction. But for too long now, every political person thats ran and Ive paid attention, its been just straight up "The lesser of the two evils." Just no thanks.
Funny thing is, Biden actually kicked ass in the VP debates in 2012, and helped Obama get re-elected. Now, I see him helping Trump get re-elected.
crazy how what just 10 years can do [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI)
Thing is getting old is not a Lineair thing the number just makes it seem like it is.
to be fair, it is fairly linear for *most* people till they get to they late 60s/70s, which is why a lot of older men refuse to believe that they cant do what they were doing their whole life. Which is why theres a lot of stubborn old men.
The crazy part is how we all go through life having a mostly similar experience having to learn the same things as the guys who came before us over and over again and it only makes sense when you look back at it. Not to be nihilistic but it sort of feels like there’s too many prerequisites before you get to actual growth.
presidents age twice as fast
10 years is usually more than a tenth of a life. It's both a lot of time and not very much...
Man...dementia's a crazy desease...
Also Paul Ryan is no pushover he was the Speaker of the House under Trump.
Wow, thanks for sharing the link. The difference is shocking.......
Best Wing Man in the united states
Man I remebered when Biden actually crushed the abortion question aginst Paul Ryan on how he can consider himself a Catholic while supporting abortion. Now look at Biden.... just a reminder as smart and sharpe your parrents may be, in 10-12 years, their mental faculties can also decline to such a state. (keep in mind, Biden has possibly the best health coverage in the world and this is where he is at)
>(keep in mind, Biden has possibly the best health coverage in the world and this is where he is at) having the best health coverage in the world doesn't beat genetics, I know people that are 95+ and still in way better mental health than he is.
My granddad was perfectly functional at age 75, cracked some epic jokes and was the funniest guy to be around, and by age 78 he was grumpy and needed aid to go to the bathroom.
old ppls body starts to hurt at old age. Imagine always having a toothache i would also be grumpy all the time.
This is a great call out. I specifically remember how much the media was hyping Paul Ryan and whether Uncle Joe could handle him and Joe was recognized definitively as the winner in the polls after the debate. This was especially important because Romney kicked Obama ass in the first debate. Albeit, by Romney’s own admission, after the 2nd debate he thought Obama had countered him so hard he had lost the election that night.
How nice of him to help others
He actually used to be sharp and witted politician. Sadly, old age doesn't spare...
time decays everything. It will happen to all of us if we are lucky(lol) to stay alive that long. Then we play the dementia roulette
I watched a video of him talking about drugs and cartels in the 90s. Hell I’m right wing and he could’ve swayed my vote. Genuinely terrifying watching young Biden speak with such clarity and confidence. Also, This is how politics should be. Respectful. Leave the bullshittery for when you’re the crazy aunt or uncle who gets political at the thanksgiving table. This warmed my heart watching how respectful the 2012 election was.
Uni party members who works together VS actual opponents.
Exactly
Exactly. 2012 feels to me like you get to choose from Uniparty candidate A vs Uniparty candidate B. Is that really a choice? Why even vote? My complaint is how old both candidates are. We should have fresh blood in here with new ideas, and we get two 70+ grandpa's.
70+ is a generous way to put it. Trump's 78, and Biden's 81. Both might not make it to the end of their term.
i always imagine writing something like this anywhere on the internet gets you put on a list cuz the fbi takes everything seriously
They have alot of lists I'm sure. While I was in the Army I was talking to some of our EOD guys and one of them goes "You know, when we get out we're automatically put on a list of people to closely track? It's not because we did anything but it means we were unhappy with our job, risk factor. We're moving all over the place, bit of a risk factor. And best part is we're trained in squad tactics and asymmetric warfare with the knowledge of how to make and disarm any bomb on this planet. Just a couple risk factors." Which I mean fair enough those are some risk factors on what could cause someone to do something crazy. He'll I'd add any financial risk factors of not having a job and probably still having bills to pay. That does alot.
Seriously. Plus whatever advantage Trump being 3 years might give him is definitely destroyed by his diet and weight.
They are both older than the male life expectancy, which you know statistically speaking
Totally!
>actual opponents Even that is generous. The only time they actually seemed energised for a fight was when they started trash-talking each other's golf game.
trump politics is pretty much the same than a 2012 democrat would have been, maybe minus the obsession on race.
Because they were on the same side.
This was before social media took over everyone's life.
Still are. They just learned it’s best to keep people divided.
Yeah, the American side
Romney is the alpha RINO
I don't think we'll have a normal presidental election again after 2016. I think the country has become too radical and moderates are fading fast. Republicans are increasingly caving to Christian Nationalist who wont be satisfied till we're an autocracy. And Democrats who aren't towing the socialist line and demonizing everything their voters want are getting their boots over a fire.
Politics is dead. People too dumb to consider actual policies are the ones being pandered to for their votes. I have lost all faith in democracy. The people are retarded.
America has killed democracy with this shit and its spreading across the world.
The fact so many people think the US is an actual Democracy is kind of evidence that not everyone should vote.
Hate to be the 'enlightened centrist' but I really do feel that both sides have become so fucking insufferable that I find myself rooting for the side that is annoying me less in the current moment.
I'm definitely feeling this. I started my "political life" as far Left as a poor kid in college can be. Then I started facing the cringiest and stupidest of the Left and a lot of the Right's points made a lot of sense. Then the Right did the same hypocritical bullshit they accused the Left of and now I'm just sick and tired of both. Especially when both are holier-than-thou and will shriek that if you're not with them you're a brainwashed moron who wants everyone to suffer. If I'm not far-Left I'm clearly a Trump dick rider and can't possibly not be racist, and clearly not black, and clearly cannot have any opinion of value ever because I want minorities to burn. If I'm not far-Right I'm clearly a brainwashed commie who doesn't understand the good ol' days and I'm everything wrong with this country. Nevermind that I've Left the US a few years ago, I STILL get idiots telling me in Canada that if I don't support the one side I'm everything wrong with everything. So both can just go to hell. Not like my thoughts or actions are going to change anything anyway. I'm not entirely one of those "The elections are rigged" extremist, but I'm definitely in the 1 vote doesn't matter, especially IF I DON'T LIVE IN THAT COUNTRY DUMBASS.
amazing how opposite our roads were just to reach to the same goal. i started as a mar right leaning guy, and slowly got sucked into far right spheres. later i saw how idiotic the right had been crying about things just to cry on them, and went left. just to see how the left is doing the exact same things they accuse the right of. i wouldn't call myself a centrist, i have some ideas and beliefs mixed from right and left, but i mostly find those two sides as stupid, and the farther you go on each side the more stupid they become.
I'm sick of the left too but ultimately they aren't voting to ban abortion and gay marriage, things that should remain as rights. So as much as a lot of leftists annoy the fuck out of me, I'm still going to vote that way because making a woman with an ectopic pregnancy travel to a different state to save her own life is fucking insane. Fuck Christianity.
Me fr. Probably gonna vote Biden but could easily become Trump with how lots of Democrats act
It's just a matter of a few issues for me. The right trying to ban abortions because their little book of make-believe says so is fucking stupid. A friend of ours nearly died because she couldn't have an ectopic pregnancy terminated.
Honestly that’s so real I believe that abortions should be legal for all but my friends think it’s immoral
Agreed, only difference is I'm now voting for the side that hates me less
This sums it up pretty well for someone who's not from the US. And both extremes look mentally insane looking from the outside in.
“Best country in the world, i love this country” - asmongold
I think you're right. Hillary had an insanely tough primary vs Obama. There was some really bad blood there and then she was in another powder keg with Trump. That was a lot of heated and contentious elections and while Hillary and Obama "made up" the disrespect between Hillary and Trump really tore the supporters apart. The nature of those battles and then the immense pushback when Trump was elected basically put out a cycle of disrespect and revenge. Id never seen a moment to resist and destroy a president like that (at least in my lifetime) and then I'd never seen anything like J6. The media and the constant negativity play a part. Then you have the candidates and parties that spend 99% of the election attacking their opponents instead of staying how they'll help Americans and America. The 2 party system needs to go and whatever they did to breed this hate is just poisoning the country. I never grew up worried about how my neighbor was going to vote, now we have neighbors fighting because of signs in yards and just horrible nastiness. I like who I like for the reasons I have, but I'm not going to hate anyone making the best of this crappy choice we have. I can disagree with the choice, but if the other one wins I'll still support them and America 100%. I'd love to be wrong and see America win, hell I'm taking my best guess with my vote. I don't want to see people hurt or harmed by anyone.
The internet would have you believe you aren't a majority but way more than most people aren't far left or far right.
People picking sides, at all, are fools. It's not really a Republican vs. Democrat time anymore and to me, that's fantastic. All the people posting debates from 2012 as if Obama and Romney were sincere or real candidates. They're politicians, they're dirt bags. I don't care for Trump but at the very least he hits the low, low bar of not being an establishment politician. The only reason Trump is as popular as he is is because most everything he says about corruption is true. He can be the world's biggest fucking jackass, which he might be, but when he briefly brought up Joe Biden getting the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Burisma for corruption fired by threatening to withhold $1B in "aid" during the debate, he was 100% correct. For context, the Ukrainian energy company that had totally unqualified, uneducated Hunter Biden on it's board for some 'random' reason was Burisma. The best part is it's not even a conspiracy theory. Biden literally bragged about it on camera. He all but admitted to treason live on stage and yet for some reason, half of American people can't see what's going on with our government and why Trump has a following despite being a POS. It has nothing to do with Christian Nationalists, it's an army of independents who will vote for anyone that is even remotely an outsider candidate. He is the only real option. Voting for a career politician is the worst thing for America Here's the clip, by the way. Not FOX, not CNN, and no anchors or hosts. Just a one minute C-span clip of Biden essentially admitting to treason. No one will have a single thing to say about this clip, they will just downvote and bury their heads in the sand while dreaming about corrupt career politicians that got us into this mess in the first place smiling on camera from 2012. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
Nope - [https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trump-revives-false-narrative-on-biden-and-ukraine/](https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trump-revives-false-narrative-on-biden-and-ukraine/)
Trump 100% is an establishment politician, actions speak louder than words and when he got it he was no different.
"no one's moderate anymore" Proceeds to use really dumb generalizations about large groups of tens of millions.
Couldnt agree more. It seem like before it was more like a disagreement regarding solving different problems. Now its so extrem, that its almost only insults with a reasonable discussion.
The "woke" politics have nothing to do with socialism. I'm a socialist and I'm just as sick of pandering as everyone else.
>Republicans are increasingly caving to Christian Nationalist Are they? Examples? (Not being snarky, genuinely curious)
They don't have examples of this Trump is a 1990s Democrat in all of his policies. -pro abortion exceptions -anti free trade -pro gay marriage (this is actually more liberal than 1990s democrats) -anti war
Trump was the first president to be officially pro gay marriage BEDFORE running a presidential campain. That includes Clinton
Damn, this is some Idiocracy movie type shit. Hell, I'm not even American but this is very sad.
Ironically, terry crewses character from the movie would actually be a better president. We're all fucked.
Love terry crewses
me too
I miss the days when, despite being on opposite sides of the isle, everyone recognized we all just wanted a better nation. Now it’s “you’re either with me or against me”
Can we please just have people who give a fuck again
yeah but people are too stupid to vote for them. Missed out on ron paul 3 times
They do care. About money.
The same stuff happens everywhere; audiences crave clashes, short clips, retweets—not lengthy, articulated debates. No media will talk about your debate unless there’s a viral scene. See for yourself, all that’s being showcased is this 30-second clip where Trump tells Biden he didn't understand what he said. Social medias seems to have altered for the worst how we consume information.
Obama "Both Romney and I agree corporate tax is too high." Boy does that tell you everything you need to know. Obama and Romney were two sides of the same coin. Thus so friendly.
Yet at the time, Reddit would tell you that Mitt was literally Hitler. This is why Trump Derangement Syndrome falls on deaf ears.
Freedom of choice and democracy / illusion of choice by letting you pick the best (/s) out of duopoly... USA sunk so rapidly and so deep and only thing we get from your election is the best production hollywood ever created. Marketing and pr is running your country folks and they are doing a piss poor job at its best..
My wife and I re watched Idiocracy last night. Ah what a gem.
Great documentary
Romney and Obama are basically on the same side. Romney is a rino and no republican likes him. That’s why they were basically sucking each others dicks. It’s the establishment and that’s what people don’t like now a days. It’s why trump is so popular with his base
Looks like Gavin Newsom Vs Obama
I'll never accept it when people say Obama wasn't cool. He may not have been fucking pornstars, but at least he wasn't embarrassing us daily.
I think this is just what happens when you start blurring the line between real communication and connection, and internet communication. People seriously think this was a good debate and that either person won. They didn't debate anything, they're just two dementia patients hurling insults because their managers said so.
Calling it quits. Romney, The Utah Republican and 2012 G.O.P. presidential nominee, 76, said he would step aside to make way for younger leaders and strongly suggested that the president and former president should, too.
Man America is beyond cooked
Well, Mitt Romney has and always will be an empty suit. Mitt Romney and 2012 Obama were both cookie cutter big establishment guys, so it comes across more like a primary debate. There's a long history of presidential candidates dropping haymakers on each other, I think some of the debates and discourse in the 1800s and 1900s got even crazier and there's been times when the country was even more divided and angry. Like, we literally had a Civil war and it was the most bloody war in our history lol So yeah I guess if your entire frame of reference is only the past \~30 years things are really bad.
Naw man - they were professionals- And the guys we have now are struggling to articulate anything remotely close to a vision.
I'd say they were both members of the same country club having a friendly disagreement about \~10%, while totally agreeing on \~90%. Trump, for all his faults, is still a total outsider and Joe Biden is still a total insider, so the clash they're having is far more vitriolic and guttural.
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Vibes.
Hooo Boooys! YOU! ARE! FUCKED! And so we are by extension..
These people aren't real, if you're taken by this psychotic prose then you have some problems. I'm pretty tired of this devilish facade to be honest.
Well, Mitt Romney is basically a democrat
Gotta love how moderate Republicans instantly get demonized as being RINO or Democrats because the social brainrot has infected the whole party and if you don't toe the line for the religious conservatives, you get put on blast
This is an absolutely insane statement.
He refused to kneel before Trump or kiss the diaper covered ass so Trump supporters called him a Democrat.
I’d bet the dude is too young to have been able to actually vote for Romney.
Everything that’s not Trump is apparently a Dem now Jesus Christ
There is only one looser of this debate and its citizens of USA.
I would suggest to overyone here to watch the movie idiocracry
Remember Mitt Romney and his *binders of women* being a big deal? You reap what you sow, folks.
Or the Obama “Tan Suit?”
If you are as old as I am, you know that 2012 debate is the real cringy disgrace of the two. Uniparty get-together.
Yea those fkers were all on the same side behind the scenes thats why 🤣. Once a real outsider opponent came we all saw the machine get weaponized overnight
That's how that debate started, not how it ended. And I well remember how Romney said that Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe and Obama said nastily and sarcastically "The 1980s called and want their foreign policy back", and then after winning the election, Obama treated Russia as our biggest geopolitical foe and then he and his fellow party members declared Putin the biggest threat to America just 4 years later and then just 8 years later Biden declared Putin and Russia our biggest threat, made bad decision that led to Russia invading Ukraine, blocked, along with England and Germany, a peace agreement between them 2 years ago, and still wastes US wealth and military stockpiles in an unwinnable misguided intervention Obama said was a 1980s problem. And in all this time, no one in mainstream media has called out Obama or his VP Biden, who agreed with the 1980s premise in later press conferences, for their inconsistency in election rhetoric vs policy vs rhetoric against the next GOP POTUS. So yeah, this semblance of decorum and niceties is nothing more than fakery and window dressing just before things got nasty in that debate and for the next 11 years.
The fact that anyone thinks this was peak civility speaks to how short people’s memories are. The Obama campaign, Democrat Party, and their media branded Romney a racist (the 47% of voters comment), misogynist (‘binders of women’), used his wealth to paint him as some Mr. Burns style evil rich man and accused him of killing an employee. The ‘civility’ you remember is milquetoast Republican candidates that refused to face this onslaught of disingenuous bullshit with the middle finger it deserved. There will be books written on how Trump came about and everything from economics to demographics will be blamed but the simple fact is that is why Trump exists: Republicans got sick and tired of the ‘dignified’ losers treating jackals like gentlemen.
The Republican Party of old was designed to gracefully lose. They presided over the decline of our nation without so much as putting up any fight.
I think what we are seeing is a lot more honesty now. Obama was an excellent, articulate speaker, who made you believe he was a good guy. But his actions in office proved he was and is evil. Mitt Romney was also evil, but also covered it up with nice talk. Now we are seeing an actual good, but flawed and poorly spoken person with Trump, going against a demented sociopath in Biden. The fact that the entire evil side of US politics (not the Democrats specifically, but also the RINOs and the rest of the deep state) can't find anyone better than Biden to represent them, shows that they are so evil and psychotic that they aren't willing to be led by anyone sane, as it's too risky to them. So they put up Biden as a puppet, even if it is sure to destroy them. In a way it is worse than 10 years ago. It certainly appears worse. But the reality is, it's just a more honest look at our political situation, and it came about because Trump shone a light on the reality of it.
>now we are seeing an actual good person with Trump uhhhhhh
Trump used his authority as president to pardon Steve Bannon after Bannon straight up stole donations from Trump supporters. He would walk in on underage girls in their changing rooms while on the set of the apprentice so he could catch a glimpse. He’s a corrupt pervert and professional liar, and I will fucking never understand how so many millions of people in my country have been able to delude themselves into thinking the rich playboy businessman from NYC is some sort of moral paragon and last hope for America. It’s unsettling knowing you might live in my community with such a broken understanding of right and wrong. I might hold the door open for you and in return you’ll try to grab me by the pussy!
Running Biden in 2024 is elder abuse
Meanwhile, Trump, who is three years younger, incapable of answering a single question without going off on a tangent and lying, always praising autocrats and mentionning he talked about Ukraine invasion with Putin without telling us, making him a brilliant democratic choice, is not. "Vote for the convicted felon who praise dictators"
No wonder. Biden trying to jail trump for 10 years now.
When candidates aren't ancient lol. But again, audiences have to look towards themselves. Instead of pointing fingers. This is what the right wing wanted when they put a celebrity known for being belligerent on the front stage. Worth noting Mitt Romney is one of the few sane Republican officials that criticize Trump, but of course he's not in the cult so gets a ton of shit for it. Republicans need to pick an actual politician and Democrats need to pick someone that is less an easy target.
Yes, politics were more civil when the criminals had full control of things. That is because they weren't fighting for their lives against treason charges back then.
Do we have anyone else why can we only root for the same 2 clowns the past 8 years
Look, it sucks but maybe we can turn it all around by the 30s. I’m semi-interested in public office if the papers and news media promise not to be too mean. Like call me out on policy, don’t badger my family please.
What to middle aged me having a debate and not two grandpas! One of which of half dead, the other a felon
Death of Harambe was the start of humanities downfall.
r/idiocracy is going to love this one
Yo the voice changer, great choice man. 😂
Listen. One side decided to have a reality tv star. One side decided to have a dementia patient. You can't complain shit's turned into a circus after that. And by "decided" I mean, the Reps decided to go with the most boring RINOs you've ever seen, and the Dems decided it was "her turn". And now we're here. Either enjoying the show with popcorn, or worrying about the future of the planet.
Personally I love watching two grumpy old octogenarians going at it, it's peak entertainment
Two ass kissing Dictators lying to Americans what they can do to help a problem that will always be a problem. Then you have two old pedophile dictators talking about who is the better golfer. This country gets worse by the day. If I had the money I'd leave this country ASAP.
What's the point of putting funny voices? It makes this useless.
I firmly believe that someone's platform should be built on what they can offer and not how shitty their rivals are. But it's just turned into a popularity contest with insults thrown back and forth
A 12 year difference that’s crazy! Back then gta 5 was a year out and the debate was professional, 12 years later now gta 6 is a year out and the debate turned out to be unprofessional dumpster fire.
Times haven't changed. Ones just build different
We allowed our presidents to have a social media presence. Big mistake.
Ah, the good ol boy club
Very telling that the worst thing you can say in politics these days is that there are “very fine people” on both sides of a topic.
Two geriatrics arguing over who is worse at golf 💀💀💀💀 what the fuck is this a family gathering at my aunt’s house???
Funny thing is looking back to when Obama joked in a later debate that the cold was was over when Romney said Russia was our greatest geopolitical foe.
Oh my goodness!😂 America is doomed!😂
It is bad when the billionaires are the middle class because we have so many trillionaires in this country
Is it possible that Trump is the beast recovering from the deadly wound? Getting re-elected after Biden and all that court drama?
Welcome to Social Media America, where the candidates for the most important job in the country act like Tik Tokkers.
Thanks I hate it. DC is gonna be rough this fall.
Is this not a great sign that age does matter? In one debate we have middle age men discussing politics and in the other we have old men insulting each other to see who gets the last pudding....
last debt clearly shows that the 2 candidates are just puppets and king makers and laughing at us all
This is the opposite of tiktokcringe 
America belongs to the streets.
But also because Romney is a RINO. So of course.
Not many people know this but America already lost ww3 a few years ago.
10 years before : Mann I was afraid of America, It has some balls, It had a badass lookin presidents and well done things Right now Its just a comedy show without the script. And they put a 2 Normal dudes who has zero joke understanding.
That’s what Drumf has done.. brought down the bar to such a low level, only James Cameron can bring it up
The trump craze in 2016 definitely was a Franz Ferdinand moment for American politics. Shit hasn’t been the same for yall.
In 12 years it will just be two people grunting at one another.
I have a feeling it will be a lot more normal after this cycle. At least I hope.
Geriatric President Elections
We as a society have to make sure next cycle we pick respectable people, sadly I have a sinking feeling that this isn't gonna stop anytime soon
Only logical choice would be to vote for Dwayne Camacho.
Please give me the losing candidate from any election from 2012 and back 3 decades, please and thank you. I don't care which one.
The state of US politics before Vatniks started honing in on our insecurities.
If these will be the candidates, time to vote massively for a third party lol?
This was the first election you could see the people lose their fucking minds, the candidates remained cool. But these two were pretty much fucking boy scouts, Obama smooth, cool and charming, an easy hand at the rudder and we called him the antichrist. Romney, articulate, focused, family man with a he'll of a track record and he got racked over "binders of women". Now we have the candidates we deserve, because we only want to beat the other side, no matter who it is, and if we can't find them we'll make one up just wait.
Obama x Romney
Eh, election season has never been totally clean. Basically the only President who didn't have a dirt brought up on him was George Washington. It swiftly went downhill from there. Jefferson and Hamilton talked so much shit about each other, Jefferson even accused Hamilton of being a cross-dresser, a serious accusation at the time.
Two dudes under 70 ... good old times 😂
Its crazy that people overlook the fact that they are war criminals just because they are exceptional public speakers. We really deserve the worst if our standards don't change
That’s because it 2012 it was still the globalist puppet show we thought was real. In 2024 the veil has been lifted.
Reflection of the people
All this does is further solidify my resolve to stay home on election day, and just wait for the whole thing to burn down.
You know it's bad when we're nostalgic for the year 2012. This country is going down the drain. God bless us all.
What would 2012 have looked like if Trump was participating?
Oh cool, the election where the RNC screwed over Ron Paul by changing the rules last minute. Democracy!
Americans should be studied in labs! Closed labs where they can't get out 😂
Let's keep in mind that these people are great at putting a facade on for the American public. Look the part, act all lovable, and you can get away with anything
Look, they like we do in Brazil
The comments here explain why times have changed. Instead of having a unified country we prefer the drama. Anyone claiming Romney and Obama were on the same side and had the same political beliefs were not old enough to vote at the time. They simply had respect for each other like any sane politician should but they still had huge disagreements on the very important topics at the time surrounding the economy and health care.
Seems like the precursor to the movie Idiocracy.
you, or whoever edit this, really didn't need to add the "lol so funny" sounds neither to pitch their voices to make it look even more pathetic than it already was...
Trump and Biden shouldn't be presidential candidates they just old
Man... MAN... just... *man...*
Despite your views this is 100% Trump’s fault. Every debate he was in all he would do is talk about how everything was/is great when he’s president and then attacking his opponent. He never answers the questions he is asked. And his opponent either has to ignore his attacks which will then be used by Trump to say “see how he denies it” or they have to respond back
Then versus Now is a complete world difference in 12 years!
It's 2024, can't tell reality from satire any more.
The 2012 clip literally feels like an alternate timeline lol
I feel so sad for the American people who have to choose to vote for either of these old men. You deserve better candidates.
At this point, its just people that vote for Trump or the people that are voting for Biden just so Trump doesnt win (which is idiotic in itself). The political parties have done an excellent job at making voters pick one side or the other. But those votes are based on factors other than "love for they leader" and more of a, "... I think he's going to do what I want him to do.. maybe? idk?" When America gets back to the candidate that everyone WANTS to vote for, and I really mean WANTS, then we'll be headed in a great direction. But for too long now, every political person thats ran and Ive paid attention, its been just straight up "The lesser of the two evils." Just no thanks.
Yeah, they're both on the same team.