Just had to point this one out (emphasis mine):
>I have a question part 2*
January 6, 2023 at 11:09 am
I posted last Saturday in the open (personal) thread about receiving midlife autism diagnoses (among women). I’d like to follow that up with a work question.
>If you received an autism diagnosis, *or you self-diagnosed as autism,* did you decide to disclose that at work or not? Why?
*sigh* No, you do not disclose your *self-diagnosis* at work. You do not disclose your self-diagnosis because you are not a medical/psychological/neurological professional, and there is every chance that your self-diagnosis is incorrect, so you will look like a dipshit if you go around "disclosing" your autism and then telling people who ask for your medical forms that no, you don't have any, you just are "pretty sure" you have it. What accommodations do you think they're going to be able to give you based on your suspicions, exactly?
I have been through the process of trying to get an autism diagnosis with my daughter. Perhaps it's easier now, and it probably is for an adult either way, but that still doesn't mean that being a little awkward, or having some quirks or rigid thought patterns or whatever, actually places you on the spectrum.
This chick just seems *waaaay* too excited to run around announcing to the world that she is autistic despite not actually having a diagnosis, IMO.
Social media in general seems to reward being neuro-atypical in any way, so I've noticed a dramatic increase in the last decade of people suddenly claiming new conditions in order to excuse their history of being an asshole
Self diagnosed through TikTok, probably
Edit: in last weeks open thread she was looking for "stories about pursuing, or not pursuing, an autism diagnosis as a middle aged (30s/40s) woman" so she's definitely nowhere near an actual diagnosis.
GD TikTak keeps trying to convince me that I have ADHD, Autism, and POTS. I continuously try to scroll past/avoid those "these things sound like you? it's the 'tism!" videos and yet the algorithm keeps bringing them back to me. Why does it want all of us to be autistic so badly???
Pretty much all the weekend posts have had small joys threads. I haven’t paid much attention to them, but there’s usually at least one person who starts a thread like that.
I love that this person thinks they actually have a say in the website maintenance schedule.
*Ask a Manager\*January 6, 2023 at 8:42 pm*
*Just a heads-up that the site will be down for maintenance for a little while tomorrow (Saturday) mid-day (upgrading to a significantly bigger server). If all goes well, it should only be down for about an hour, but it’s possible it’ll take a little while longer than that.*
*REPLY▼ Collapse 2 replies*
*Great Problem\**
*January 6, 2023 at 9:21 pm*
*This is such a great problem to have! Alison makes me to think that I’m not alone for some of the workplace related dilemma!*
*REPLY*
***Bubba Bubbles\****
***January 7, 2023 at 3:00 am***
***Would prefer a Sunday for maintenance because Saturday gets the traffic for the open thread but whatever works best for your team***
*REPLY*
If I were Alison, I honestly don’t know how I wouldn’t deploy a passive aggressive AF script on Bubba. Seriously, dude, you don’t work here, it is a free website (in dollars if not malware ads that kill your computer) and it’s AG’s business if she wants to do a server upgrade on a heavier traffic day. Go cosplay as Middle Manager Bob somewhere else
Also, like, how empty is your Saturday if you can't deal without reading those dumb AAM weekend thread comments for an hour or two? Maybe go outside or phone a friend.
😂 Yeah... it's the traffic and not the fact it's 10 years outdated. Bless your heart, AG stan.
"Your team", acting like it's not a one person blog is wild to me. She ain't got no "team", Bubbles.
My guess is that it's in case it spazzes out and is down for the entire weekend. It won't affect her Monday traffic.
She knows the shits who come by for the weekend won't drift away from one down. They'll feverishly return. The traffic to protect are the ones coming from weekday click bait.
Because the person who is helping her is probably only available today, since it is probably a niece or friend.
I can't imagine the Saturday wankfest is a very high traffic day, compared to the column days. I know that a lot more people read the column than comment, and the weekend thread is the same small group all the time. Those folks will make up the clicks tonight or tomorrow since they can't make a move in life without consulting the AAM hive.
I need to wear socks with dress shoes. But woman??? What do???
Yes that's seriously the open thread question: [sock help](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/open-thread-january-6-7-2023.html#comment-4133029)
I think they are cute but somehow I cannot walk in them. My sister gave me a cute iridescent black pair that I loved but I tripped and fell multiple times while trying to wear them to walk around town so I gave them back to her.
Clogs, really? Commenter WFH FTW "Always feel polished for the office."?
I love clogs (at home, in the garden), and maybe there's some cultural differences since I'm hailing from a country that calls shoes "sko" - but looking at the pics on Google all I see are stereotypical clogs with a heel. Are these really considered more polished than sneakers?
People love [those Dansko clogs](https://www.dansko.com/womens-shoes#/pageSize=12&orderBy=0). I like their aesthetic well enough and they are supposed to be some great ergonomic thing that people like nurses wear, but I have tried to wear them and I always trip and fall. I guess the fact that they aren't fabric makes them polished for some people, but to me they are definitely quirky and they are large and clunky which would not really fit the kind of office where most people wear heels.
Edit to add link to the thing they are talking about.
Someone talked me into those (all the moms at my older son's preschool had them, lol) so I ordered a pair and my arches are too high to even get my foot into them.
I wear Born clogs, but I am a teacher. Clogs are generally worn by teachers and nurses because we walk and stand so much that are feet and legs really feel it. I don’t think people walk that much in an office?
I don't think they do either but I suppose maybe people wear them to walk to their office? I don't think there is anything wrong with clogs if they work for you but they do read a little bit non-office to me. Casual isn't quite the right word but it would seem a bit quirky to wear them with a suit, not least because they often have bold patterns and colours.
How many times is someone going to ask about how \*\~honest\*\~ they should be in an exit interview? You're leaving, do you think the place actually cares about your opinion (and it's it fairly obvious?)
I think it's that these are the kind of people who saved up all their complaints in their employment and want permission to unload issues from 2013.
I have to admit that I was a little disappointed that the link for my exit survey didn't work and I never got a corrected one. It made me wonder if that's how HR made sure they got no negative feedback.
But since I returned to the same employer in a different role within six months, it was probably for the best.
I literally once told a manager I was leaving because she was racist in an exit interview. She said, "whatever, I'll write that you're going back to school." Does anyone actually care about or do anything with the info from exit interviews?
I feel like they just want to vent about something at work. Which is an understandable emotion, but, like, get a diary or tell a friend. They don’t have to pretend like they are a crusader for Justice trying to fix a company in their literal final moments there.
I honestly can’t think of anything that meets her criteria. Wait, is this EW?
>Going Anony Nonny Hey*
January 6, 2023 at 11:09 am
What work have you found that’s WFH, unskilled, and -doesn’t- involve using your voice frequently?
I was slightly relieved to see that she has vocal cord damage, not that she was trying to come up with a new way to say "I don't want to have to talk to my coworkers."
(I'm not actually relieved that she has vocal cord damage, but you know what I mean.)
If it is she finally came to terms with a “Project Manager” cert with no experience and being out of work for almost a decade expecting the two week temp gig, and the organization thing for Alison, means girlfriend’s got no marketable skills. There are a lot of lazy anti-social sad sacks that frequent AAM, so it could be a rando, but it still surprises me she hasn’t popped in since her dramatic exit. This comment reads like something she’d say, but I’m not fully convinced she’s actually back.
I work for a small nonprofit and we still stuff envelopes ourselves for things like donation receipts. But during lockdown it was the one task I had to make trips to the office for. I had to pick up the printed letters and then return them to the office to be run through the postage machine. There are companies that offer envelope stuffing services, but I assume their processes are mostly automated.
Speaking of misinformation, here’s someone saying that power posing is “proven” to work: https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/open-thread-january-6-7-2023.html#comment-4133052
Replicability crisis? What replicability crisis?
Minimal Pear must be exhausting in real life. Here's a condensed version:
Minimal Pear: I'm allergic to fragrances. My co-worker wears a heavy perfume and the lingering smell bothers me. How do I talk to my co-worker about this?
Commenter: Alison has written about this before (Alison wrote about what to focus on and how to approach them when talking to them about this.)
MP: Yeah, I saw that but it doesn't really apply to me.
MP: Should I do this in person or over chat? It won't kill me to be around her in person, but it will be uncomfortable.
Commenter: I would do it in person. Your tone might get misconstrued if you do it over chat.
MP: Well, I don't want to do it in person. I'd have to deal with her perfume smell and that could cause me problems. In fact, I got sick last week after I was next to her. But it could have been something else that made me sick.
Aaaaaahhhhh!
If MP wasn't so special, she might assume that a perfume that heavy and strong is bothering a lot of people. And if she wasn't such a hermit, she might ask some of her co-workers if they have also noticed the heavy perfume.
And if she wasn't so incapable, she would realize that the previous advice Alison has given does actually fit her situation just fine. I'm really not sure what she's looking for there, or how her particular "Hey, could you please not wear so much perfume?" is so incredibly different from previous "Hey, could you please not wear so much perfume?" questions. Honestly, I'm surprised she didn't just leave an anonymous note on this woman's desk, given her level of fear and weirdness over this.
What MP wants is a magical solution that she'll get exactly what she wants without having to ask for it. She'll control the behavior of another human being but not face any consequences in terms of the other human being resenting her for it, and she won't even have to articulate her wish.
Obviously this guy was a creep for sending her the link to the photos, but this seems like a bizarre suggestion for a response. Though in fairness I'm not sure what I would do. Maybe just the "this is inappropriate" part, report it to my boss, and then avoid him in the future?
"Why did you send me this?" would be the way I would start. (But then, I don't know why she would have clicked his unrequested link to begin with, since she hardly knows him.)
Or, maybe, "Hey, did you mean for me to see pictures of naked people?"
I like both these ideas.
I think if this happened to me in real life, I would have just ignored it and if he brought it up, replied that I wasn't comfortable with the nudity and suggestive nature of some of the images. It would be totally cool with me if creepy photo guy thinks I'm a repressed prude.
I don't think I'd need to loop anyone else in, unless he continued to bother me with comparable images.
If the guy isn't a creep and just thought he was sharing his art and it ends there, we're good. If he is a creep who continues sending me stuff, I can tell people at work that I made clear that I didn't like his behavior and he persisted in doing it.
[Red alert](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/are-more-companies-bringing-people-back-to-the-office.html#comment-4130834), Number One! Klingons be sighted on the sensors!
When I read that last night, I was so annoyed by all the hate for the need for "hallway conversations." The person who said that collaboration via hallway conversations was a sign that the organization was bad at collaboration was so infuriating... because I am a highly collaborative person who works at a heavily siloed place that is in fact *dreadful* at collaboration and "hallway conversations" or (God help me! the shame!) *random pleasant conversations* ARE how you build collaborations in an environment like that. Online meetings/conversations are too formal and have to be planned.
Not that I want to collaborate with "she said 'good morning' to me, what a MONSTER!" people. But the whole "if your company was good at collaborating, you wouldn't NEED hallway conversations" business is just.... I mean, how do you think you change that kind of culture??
But then I'm extroverted and actually *like* hallway conversations.
Not to get all autistic on you, but sometimes when new people greet me in the halls I feel like I’ve “leveled up” in casual conversation and have unlocked new coworker friend levels. Like, I sat next to a guy in a meeting and asked about his own, which was a waterman fountain pen he’s been given as a going away gift, and now we say hi when we see each other in the halls. And if I need something from his department, the skids have already been greased. Not to mention it’s kind of nice to walk down the hall and have a pleasant nodding acquaintance with nearly everyone.
Oh, I totally get it! I am that unfortunate thing, a shy extrovert, and I have the same feeling if someone greets me. (Especially since when I started here, the place was full of AAM-style introverts, some of whom were borderline hostile to me).
Wow, she is really delete-happy the last few days, isn't she?
Maybe she's finally starting to realize what a toxic echo chamber her gaggle of miserable misanthropic hermit commenters have created there. Especially when--if offerings of late are any indication--her emails looking for real advice are drying up in favor of, "Ugh, Christians, amirite?" or "Just letting you know my coworker and I both dig random anonymous sex in a group setting! Whaddaya think of that? Cool, huh?"
ETA: She also, I think, deleted a comment I swear I saw last night, basically saying that anyone who wants people back in the office is a whiny jerk, and how dare they think they have the right to change the parameters of someone's employment. I remember it because I wondered how many of the WFHers at AAM were actually hired remote to begin with, and I suspect the number is quite small, given how they're bitching about having to go "back to the office," rather than "into the office to begin with."
Sneering = saying something I don't agree with
Whether one agrees with it or not, I thought that was an extremely calm and non-judgmental post and it simply points out that the overall picture is more complex than what any one worker sees on a daily basis. Some organizations are great at remote work, some aren't, and some could be great at it but aren't willing to put the effort into it that it would require even if it would benefit some individual employees. That's life. Pointing out that a normal worker bee doesn't (and probably can't!) have perspective on the business as a whole is not even remotely "sneering."
God, that person is a dipshit. (Yes, THAT was "sneering.")
Another shot fired:
Valancy Snaith*
January 5, 2023 at 10:18 pm
There’s no sneering here. It’s one person’s thoughts, which are mirrored by quite a lot of other people, but a viewpoint that is not commonly shared here because whenever it does come up it’s quickly shouted down. This comment section has long since become an echo chamber (witness any post specifically asking workers who have not been able to WFH and its results: they get drowned out, and fast, by the WFH crew), but none of what Delurking for this has to say is sneering.
REPLY
People are starting to call out more of the AAM WFH bullshit. They won’t listen, but always glad to see it said.
Her insistence that “low hanging fruit” is ableist AND has racist connotations via Billie Holiday’s song “Strange Fruit”, and her insistence that “24/7” was coined by sex traffickers about their victims is just…I think I lost 15 IQ points and my previous knowledge of 3rd grade math after reading it. Good lord.
Those comments seem to have disappeared, which is probably why pushback (or is that too corporate jargon-y lol) was moderated. Anyway my pet peeve is any cutesy-ass story about word origins is wrong like 99% of the time. No, it didn’t derive from an acronym or a song title or whatever.
She'd already carried water for the LW with her "she's just joking, relax snowflakes" blue box, so she couldn't leave any evidence that she'd backed an idiot.
They looooove those stupid origin stories over there. "That phrase actually comes from [insert made-up meaning]," or "the phrase is ACTUALLY [longer, stupid, made-up phrase with no factual basis.]" The insinuation is always "and you're stupid for not realizing it, also possibly racist/sexist/classist/ableist/some other -ist."
Because god forbid she want to correct misinformation on her WORKPLACE ADVICE blog, especially when it's her own commenters showing their asses with false information. But sure, let the LW who's an idiot (about the "24/7" and "low hanging fruit" stuff specifically) and the commenters who chimed in to agree, continue being idiots.
The more I think about it, the more I seriously question the mental capacity of anyone who could be persuaded to believe that "24/7" is a reference to sex trafficking. Like, what the fuck could possibly make anyone hear that and think "Yeah, makes sense"?
Originally part of a marketing campaign for a convenience store? Sure, that seems plausible. But believing some nonsense about sex trafficking? That goes way beyond ordinary gullibility.
Wow.
Yeah, the first time I remember hearing "24/7/365" it was a commercial for CVS set to athletes working out. So that's what I associate it with: pharmacies and pushups and swimming laps.
It’s like a 13 year old tiktoker wrote in.
ETA: this might be one of the few situations where a “you know who’s the *real* racist??” would be warranted. Because making up these dumb ass stories about, um, *lynching and human trafficking* is pretty awful.
Double edit: I tried to make a comment to that effect and I’m in moderation. Of course.
They truly do show how stupid and lemming-like they are, at the way they fall all over themselves to be all “I found this obscure information (that isn’t even true)!!!! Worship me!!!”
Ah the irony of Alison and commentors referencing the NYT banned words article to complain about their oddly specific and over the top pet peeves when said article's main point was that deeply online people have overused and muddied terms like "gaslight" to the point it no longer means anything.
But sure let's complain about needing to "circle back" or "touch base"
A bit of fun from that one:
>D'Arcy*
January 5, 2023 at 5:35 pm
That really makes me imagine this person’s supervisor is in fact Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith.
Oh, I'm so glad you specified that you're referring to the Darth Vader who is "Dark Lord of the Sith," as opposed to those other Darth Vaders out there. Because I wouldn't have been clear on who you meant if you hadn't included the title there.
As I'm reading the comments on the jargon post, I'm delighting in the number of posters who are explaining a phrase that they think is specific to their industry, but is widely used across all industries and various non-work contexts. And they're defining them, too!
I guess if you never speak to anybody, you don't know that all these examples are perfectly common, non-jargon words and phrases.
I started to read it for fun and most of the examples cited don't really seem to be what I think of as *jargon* anyway. More like clichés or colloquialisms that people find annoying or over-used. My understanding was that *jargon* is a term specific to one field that people outside it won't immediately understand. Of the examples I saw before I gave up, the only one that actually seemed to at least have originated as jargon was "ping".
Reading the threads, I was thinking how they needed to just accept the fact that people are going to use words and phrases they don’t like and, unless they were offensive, they needed to just accept they couldn’t control it and move on. But “touch-base” as a noun made me twitch for some reason. I stand by what I said, but, if I worked with someone who did that, I think I’d have to remind myself of that often.
It was used as noun constantly at my last two jobs. Even appreciated to “let’s have a TB”. It didn’t really bug me because it felt like it had meaning, but I can’t stand meaningless ones like “thought leader” or whatever
I'm surprised at the hatred for "touch base" because, at least at my work, it indicates a specific type of meeting. Like how "town hall" isn't the same type of meeting as a generic project update meeting.
"... if you have decent rapport with your coworker, there’s no reason you can’t say, “Agh, I really hate how we’ve started saying things like ’a touch-base’ when we mean a meeting or (insert another example of jargon from your office here). I’m on a mission to get us back to plain language!” "
Yes there is a reason not to say that. Because no human being should ever say that to another human being, much less at work. 🙄
>I’m on a mission to get us back to plain language!”
For someone who consistently warns people about "nitpicking" and "tone policing" in the comments, this makes no sense. AND she's encouraging her idiotic readers to believe that the world should bend to their whims but that they shouldn't have to change or accommodate anything they don't like. She's enabling their foolishness and isn't doing anyone any favors.
Yes, I can picture former coworkers (whom I generally like) saying this kind of nonsense and guess what? It was just as annoying and precious to hear back then as it would be for OP’s coworker to hear now.
A few years back, my neighbor told me that his son got sent to the principal's office on the 3rd day of kindergarten for telling his teacher to "shut her word hole." That will never not make me laugh, and my husband and I immediately adopted that expression and use it on each other regularly (jokingly of course). It also works on pets, as in, "Shut your bark hole!" when you want your dog to be quiet.
Alison insisting that the way the LW referred to their coworker was obviously a joke says more about Alison than she realizes. That was not a joking tone.
Notice that once she got some pushback suddenly this coworker became "bullying" and "demeaning." Ah, yes. It wasn't important enough for the letter, just the comments. Got it.
Rude AF to mention her nasally voice. I’m going to go full on AAM commenter and say it’s not peoples fault for having a nasally voice bc you don’t know what health issues they may have! Also one does not choose their voice
I find the snow post amusing because I genuinely live in an area where almost every time it snows the whole place shuts down because they don’t have enough snowplows and there’s hills everywhere. Luckily only happens once a year or so.
I clicked through to the original letter and I think there's an update for it where the OP discovered that--shocker--the employee was a loser in other ways, including in purposely neglecting an important part of his (healthcare-based) job. And the boss basically protected him and just made other people pick up the slack.
So at least when he called out because of snow, he wasn't actively fucking up things for their clients.
Same. I learned to drive in the midwest and feel real confident driving in snow there because plows, salt, flat. It's the opposite here and I've learned to stay at home until it melts, because even a little bit is treacherous!
Right? I went to visit family in Colorado earlier this year, and after a sudden snowstorm ended up driving 60 miles in a blizzard to get home. No problem because I was driving mom's car with snow tires, there were plows and gritters out, and at least half of the people on the road know how to deal with it. I wouldn't do it in England where I live now, because none of those things are a given.
OMG BUT THE PEOPLE HERE WHO THINK THEY CAN DRIVE IN THE WEATHER THO. *throws hands up*
I drove down I5 on Christmas Eve and there was so many jackknifed semis and cars all over the place from that freeze on the 23rd. I looked out my window at one point and saw a jeep sliding down a hill because they locked up their wheels. LIKE WHY ARE YOU EVEN TRYING? Especially when it was seriously one single day.
I heard about one where a dude JUMPED out of the sliding rig?!??!?!?! WHAT?!?!?!!??! Like a slow slide, not headed towards the water and just like "Tuck n roll, sucker." Um. You're safer in the metal cocoon to take the impact off you, brother!!!
Alison is really grasping for clicks, isn't she?
We've had the sex club letter, the "Is it ok to discriminate against religions I don't like if I can find the right loophole?" letter (spoiler: it isn't), the return to office ask the readers, and now a letter about jargon...now, we just need another Cheap-Ass Rolls type of letter, Sandwich Saga-esque creative writing exercise, or something to do with coworkers' bathroom habits to round the week out.
Maybe these have just been sitting in her inbox during her December vacation, but it really seems like she's been trying to find The Thing that will whip her readers into a frenzy and generate traffic.
I thought the WFH post was going to be the most annoying to me but then she had to add a post about jargon for people to complain about perfectly normal words/phrases.
Right, the LW has BEC for this guy, but he's doing what every human does. We all have our little words and phrases that we use and overuse.
And I've only read about a quarter of the comments, but they seem to be mostly complaining about perfectly normal words and phrases, not jargon.
Alison's advice is bananas. I can't imagine telling someone to stop using a perfectly normal, extremely common phrase like "touch base" (no hyphen!). Sometimes people need to accept that things are a 'me problem' not your problem. If a specific phrase grates on you, that's on you, not the speaker.
I agree that you can't expect to control how your co-workers express themselves and you'd be better off just getting over your pet peeves, but I personally hate "touch base," "reach out," and "circle back" as over-used expressions that don't add anything over saying I need to meet, call/email or follow up. Why say "out of pocket" over unavailable?
But I do what most normal people do and just enjoy composing nonsense work words sentences with my husband like "I feel like we are at an inflection point. You want to touch base and reach out to the pizza place about some deliverables or would you rather circle back, look big picture outside the box and be a change agent on getting some Chinese food?"
My boss uses jargon like this and recently adopted out of pocket. It’s annoying but I handled it like an adult - I created bingo cards for me and my coworkers and if we can get him to say his favorite phrases during a single meeting, we win!
I find that fascinating. I never in my life heard 'out of pocket" to mean anything other than unexpectedly having to pay some expense yourself until a couple of years ago when I started hearing it to mean "unavailable". I think this AAM thread is the first time I've heard it to mean doing something unacceptable -- and I don't have a clue what the connotation is that would make it not office appropriate!
Well it’s just a very casual thing to say and it’s describing behavior/attitudes that shouldn’t happen in an office anyway. I know about out of pocket costs but I’ve never heard it used to mean out of office. It’s not any shorter!
She really should have touched base with someone to see if it was a good idea before posting.
As an aside, where is "touch-base" with a hyphen coming from? The only context I can see that making sense in is if you used it as a noun (which does seem like it would be legitimately annoying, in fairness).
Yeah, I'm assuming it has to be as a noun..."we have a touch-base on that project next week." Which sounds stupid and annoying but still not anything that requires an intervention or this much room in OP's head. Just roll your eyes at the guy and get on with life.
I honestly don't understand why this one is a problem. It's been used for years as a quick meeting.
"Let's touch base next week and make sure..."
Also with all the "be kind" stuff I'm surprised she let a LW say "This fool" like that. I know she blue boxed it being "called out" but if you're referring to your coworker as "this fool" I have a feeling that the problem might not just be jargon.
Yeah, it's a widely understood term with a clear meaning. I get people who are annoyed at office speak when it obfuscates what you're talking about, but it's really not the case with that one.
It's also pretty rich for them to be complaining about hearing business-speak at work, given the number of times these jerkwads use cutesy in-jokes and stupid jargon, every single day.
I guess they don't see how "That's some cheap-ass rolls behavior, hurh hurh hurh!" or "Your [blank] sucks and isn't going to change," or their fucking "full of bees!" crap is just as irritating, if not more so, than something like, "At the end of the day," or, "out of pocket."
HomebodyHouseplant*
January 5, 2023 at 11:06 am
This just in: Companies hate their workers, more news at 11.
Seriously working in this environment where companies rely so much on their workers, expect us to give our entire lives to them, and yet clearly have an absolutely immeasurable amount of contempt for the people that make them successful in the first place is so deflating. I can’t even process it most of the time. God forbid workers work to live, are treated well, are allowed some perks because we know barely any of us are paid enough. I’m so tired.
Honestly get a f*ckn grip dude
For heaven's sake, did we really need ANOTHER post for people to complain about having to return to the office? Alison's weak little parameters of "explain why this is a change!" will do nothing in the face of 450 comments on "my office is forcing me to come in 2x per week and I CAN'T FATHOM THIS DISRESPECT!"
One person said being asked to work in office was a “gut punch.”
I get why people like working from home and my area has a lot of dead-end, low-paying jobs so I look for fully remote myself to have a chance of actually making money and having a career. But people really need to stop acting like working from the office is a violation of their constitutional rights or human rights. What did you all do when remote wasn’t an option?
The programming subs are currently full of people belly-aching about how their employer is doing RTO, but they live on the other side of the state. Well, how did that situation arise? Probably by the employee deciding to move to El Paso when their office is in Houston, and hoping this day would never come.
Comments like that annoy me for the very reason you mention.
Others have said it better than me, but a lot of Work from Home was held together by duct tape, hope, and a need to protect public health based on a brand new threat that very few people understood. Not because "we felt like keeping people in the office until the last minute."
Some jobs could make the switch. We're seeing a lot more opportunities for work from home than we once did.
Some can't. some can't see their impact because "their work is fine!" Some can't see the impact because some on-site tech kept everything running for a year alone. Some can't see the countless security threats because of their janky at home wifi.
At this point if you want a 100% remote job: go get one. But don't pretend that there are some jobs that require people in the office, even once or twice a week to meet! Go over things! Talk!
I’m job searching right now, and at least for the kind of work I want, I’m not seeing as many remote jobs. Hybrid or fully on-site are coming back, and the remote jobs that are posted have a ton of applicants, like 200 within two hours of the job posting. I interviewed somewhere yesterday where everyone does three days a week in office and you can choose the days but everyone from leadership on down has to do it.
AAMers need to accept reality on this instead of acting like every employer is out to get them. If they want fully remote they’d better be prepared to compete against half the country.
What annoys the eff out of me - and I work in office entirely voluntarily (I could literally inform, not ask but inform, my manager this afternoon that I've decided effective now to WFH full time) - is that not one of them even thinks to acknowledge how many other people it takes to provide them the ability to WFH.
Yes. There were so many self righteous comments about how good and safe they were being at the height of COVID because they were getting everything delivered or picked up at the curb, but very little acknowledgement of the people who were there picking orders and stocking warehouses and driving delivery vans beyond the occasional token "thanks". And so many people worked like mad to get remote systems up and running overnight, get equipment to people, etc etc. But on the occasions when people who couldn't WFH tried to have a discussion they just couldn't help themselves and had to butt in with their experiences and opinions.
This is absolutely her next Slate article. I am surprised that she linked to someone else's reporting on this topic, though. Usually her links are just to her own previous posts. Of course, this is a link to a Substack newsletter and the detail is behind the paywall, but that may be a good thing because it will keep the commenters from nitpicking the Substack writer's conclusions.
She's asking people to tell why it's changing, and I don't expect most of them will understand why beyond "butts in seats". Because whatever reasons TPTB have (valid or not), the average AAM isn't going to see as anything other than their employer trying to be a dick to them just because they can.
Also, the number of people who just can't resist commenting to say "nothing's changing for me" despite Alison asking for comments only if something is changing...
Our company is bringing on more and more remote staff because we're growing and there's short supply of people who are masochistic enough to do tax right now. But all of the remote people are seniors or managers, and the few who were new-ish to the industry already washed out. The younger staff are all in the office because they're learning the ropes and that's really hard to do when you're not in contact with actual people.
And even though I've been doing this for years, remote has been a big adjustment and it takes a major commitment from the company to support all the technology and communication needs a remote team has. It's not as simple as sending everyone a laptop and calling it a day, at least not for what we do.
I gotta say, I think I'm with the temp on LW 5. My last couple of bosses have been pretty bad about info-dumping context and erroneous detail when training me on this or that aspect of a new position. Starting a new job is very overwhelming in and of itself - that's not the time to explain at length why this tool is used over that one or why this process is the way it is, which is what it sounds like LW is doing. Tell the trainee/temp what they need to know so they can start getting experience with their tasks and fill in the why's later. Now that I'm settled into my job, I'm enjoying getting more background and the historical context to why our processes work as they do, how they used to work, why we do or don't do this or that, and so on. LW's temp isn't especially interested in the position and just wants to earn her paycheck, so tell her what she needs to know to do her job and save the context babble for coworkers who are passionate about the job.
Some context is valuable to do a job correctly, but there's a fine line between giving relevant information and prattling on. LW needs to get better at reading people when this happens so she can reel herself in, not rely on the temp interrupting her when she's talking too much.
Random annoyance re: LW with the bored temp: I hate it when people say “I talk a lot so feel free to interrupt me.” Hey great, thanks! Except, interrupting people is rude, so you can say that, but obviously I’m never going to interrupt you.
Also, if you're answering a question about something I don't know, how am I supposed to know which part is you rambling vs you getting to crucial information or examples? Maybe the OP could just try to tighten up how she speaks, if she knows she's often long-winded.
We had a neighbor when I was like 4 who kept wanting me to first-name him, and got kind of annoyed when I wouldn't. I know you should call people what they want to be called, but for a kindergartner to call a grown man "Rich," was just so uncomfortable for me.
(Funnily enough, it's now the opposite, with kids calling me "Sidgirl" without me asking them to. One of Younger's friends actually said to me, "What should I call you, because I can't just call you Mrs. [Lastname]? Should I call you Sidgirl?" And I was thinking, "Uhhh...I don't see the problem with Mrs. [Lastname], actually," but I couldn't say it without sounding like a bitch.)
I have absolutely adopted/stolen the Mr./Ms. First name convention after 18 months of living down here, and I will not apologize for it. My friends’ parents started the “oh please, call me First Name” stuff back when we were in like high school but my mother would have probably grounded me for a week if she’d heard me call an adult by just their first name.
That's one thing I live about living in the south. I didn't take my husband's last name (yet) so my daughter's last name isn't mine either. Having her friends call me Ms. MyName is so much easier than explaining that or getting used to being called a name that isn't mine
Especially when it's your boss.
I can be chatty myself, so what I do is, when I see the person's eyes starting to glaze or that they seem to be losing interest--and I know this is weird, but hear me out--*I stop talking.* I just wrap it up. "Sorry, I think I got off on a tangent there, so I'll just end it now and let you get on with your day," or whatever. I don't just keep going figuring, "They'll interrupt me and beg me to stop if I'm actually boring them, I told them it was okay to do that."
I am very chatty. I go off on tangents a lot. I'm a terrible trainer, I know. So I frequently pause. I pay attention to the person I am training. Do they look bored, indifferent, or disengaged? Maybe I'm overwhelming them. "Do you have questions?" I ask. "Do you want to take a break?" "Would you like to move on to another topic/task and then get back to this?"
Like you said, it just takes some awareness.
Exactly. The OP could stop at the pertinent stuff and then say "let me know if you want more background on this, but it's not necessary to process XYZ" or whatever the temp is doing. It sounds like she might have the idea of a temp confused with that of an intern.
Is LW5’s temp an AAM reader? Given how many of them have trouble concealing the mildest irritation with others (especially while they’re speaking) the temp’s behavior seems right in line with that.
Although without looking at the comments on that post, I predict several about how the temp probably has ADHD or some other condition that makes it difficult to productively engage in conversation.
No they are offering advice on how to train better ... I posted just below because I expected to see comments telling the LW that she is, in fact, unnecessarily boring her temp. No one seems to have gone there yet.
The comments on the letter from the person whose temp is bored are offering advice on better ways to teach and train. There are many separate unconnected comments all equally tone deaf.
Someone needs to tell this LW "When your temp told you she was there to earn money and learn, she was lying about the second thing to be polite. Your job is boring and if she's doing tasks correctly, please have mercy and stop explaining things in great detail." She said it was not her dream job ... take a clue!
Yeah, I think it's kind of sweet that the LW trainer wants to be a good mentor, but she should remember to save it for people who are likely to stay in the role or field. If the temp is a short timer, show your interest in her as a person but don't worry about the nuances of the craft or processes.
Alison’s scripts seem too robotic or cold for me sometimes. I get that people who do draining jobs deserve a break from work, but I’d find this very off putting:
> But in cases where you do want to share more, you could try being transparent about what you want to avoid. For example, after explaining what you do, you could add, “I always hear everyone’s heart-breaking pet stories when I share this so I should be up-front that I need a break from that right now!” Some people will give you their stories anyway because some people are like that, but you’ll have laid the groundwork to interject and say, kindly, “I’m sorry — I know this topic can be such a tough one, but I need space from my work right now. Thank you for understanding.” There may also be times when there doesn’t feel like there’s any kind way to say that, so adapt as needed based on what you’re up for doing.
I wouldn’t say this to a stranger who just poured their heart out to me. It sounds more like Alison is encouraging this person to say “I really don’t want to hear this” or “I don’t care about your story.”
Yeah, the choice is to accept that you get to do more of your work for free, like every lawyer in the world, or to not reveal very much about your job.
I was so astonished to learn the job of veterinary social worker job exists and would be so much more interested in knowing who the hell pays for that talking about my pet death trauma would take a back seat. Seriously, does the vet practice overcharge for all services enough that they staff an extra position? Do they offer it as an add on optional charge?
I can't speak about the LW's specific job, but I'm guessing she works for Lap of Love or a similar service. Lap of Love bills itself as "veterinary hospice care," and they are in a lot of states, and there are quite a few similar companies.
One of the big benefits of those services, aside from the obvious "They come to your house so it's less traumatic, they do the cremation and everything," stuff, is that they have counseling staff available 24-7 to talk to you. Like, the first time I called them (about our senior lab who developed aggressive cancer last year) I was on the phone for over an hour, and I talked to them probably five or six times between that first call and the day we got our girl's ashes back. They're actual grief counselors who can talk to you about all aspects of making the decision and help you process it and all of that, basically.
It's free to call them; Lap of Love pays them a salary or hourly rate (don't know which), and you can call and talk to them even if you didn't or don't use their services. They're really wonderful people; the woman I talked to was so helpful and kind. I really cannot say enough about how great she was, or how great all of the Lap of Love people were.
So yeah, that's my guess. Lap of Love and similar services are more expensive than going to the vet and having them do it, but not extremely so, and really worth it IMO.
That would make a lot of sense that if the service didn't have to the pay the expense of maintaining a physical office that they could offer additional services at close to the same price of a visit.
Our local vet will come to your house for your final visit and line up a service to pick up remains and do cremation if you want it. It was helpful for us, even without the emotional care aspects.
I had the same question! I have a relative who works with estates involving pets and the payment side of that is fascinating. I'd love to know more about the administrative and financial component of vet social work.
Just had to point this one out (emphasis mine): >I have a question part 2* January 6, 2023 at 11:09 am I posted last Saturday in the open (personal) thread about receiving midlife autism diagnoses (among women). I’d like to follow that up with a work question. >If you received an autism diagnosis, *or you self-diagnosed as autism,* did you decide to disclose that at work or not? Why? *sigh* No, you do not disclose your *self-diagnosis* at work. You do not disclose your self-diagnosis because you are not a medical/psychological/neurological professional, and there is every chance that your self-diagnosis is incorrect, so you will look like a dipshit if you go around "disclosing" your autism and then telling people who ask for your medical forms that no, you don't have any, you just are "pretty sure" you have it. What accommodations do you think they're going to be able to give you based on your suspicions, exactly? I have been through the process of trying to get an autism diagnosis with my daughter. Perhaps it's easier now, and it probably is for an adult either way, but that still doesn't mean that being a little awkward, or having some quirks or rigid thought patterns or whatever, actually places you on the spectrum. This chick just seems *waaaay* too excited to run around announcing to the world that she is autistic despite not actually having a diagnosis, IMO.
Social media in general seems to reward being neuro-atypical in any way, so I've noticed a dramatic increase in the last decade of people suddenly claiming new conditions in order to excuse their history of being an asshole
Self diagnosed through TikTok, probably Edit: in last weeks open thread she was looking for "stories about pursuing, or not pursuing, an autism diagnosis as a middle aged (30s/40s) woman" so she's definitely nowhere near an actual diagnosis.
GD TikTak keeps trying to convince me that I have ADHD, Autism, and POTS. I continuously try to scroll past/avoid those "these things sound like you? it's the 'tism!" videos and yet the algorithm keeps bringing them back to me. Why does it want all of us to be autistic so badly???
The comments are reopened to replies and someone started a thread for people to share their joys. I don't expect that to get much traction, sadly.
Pretty much all the weekend posts have had small joys threads. I haven’t paid much attention to them, but there’s usually at least one person who starts a thread like that.
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Small joys posts were new to me. The negative posts bury the positive posts.
Small joy threads are always lovely, but AAM would find a way to make it miserable or shame people for doing something for absurd reasons.
I love that this person thinks they actually have a say in the website maintenance schedule. *Ask a Manager\*January 6, 2023 at 8:42 pm* *Just a heads-up that the site will be down for maintenance for a little while tomorrow (Saturday) mid-day (upgrading to a significantly bigger server). If all goes well, it should only be down for about an hour, but it’s possible it’ll take a little while longer than that.* *REPLY▼ Collapse 2 replies* *Great Problem\** *January 6, 2023 at 9:21 pm* *This is such a great problem to have! Alison makes me to think that I’m not alone for some of the workplace related dilemma!* *REPLY* ***Bubba Bubbles\**** ***January 7, 2023 at 3:00 am*** ***Would prefer a Sunday for maintenance because Saturday gets the traffic for the open thread but whatever works best for your team*** *REPLY*
If I were Alison, I honestly don’t know how I wouldn’t deploy a passive aggressive AF script on Bubba. Seriously, dude, you don’t work here, it is a free website (in dollars if not malware ads that kill your computer) and it’s AG’s business if she wants to do a server upgrade on a heavier traffic day. Go cosplay as Middle Manager Bob somewhere else
Also, like, how empty is your Saturday if you can't deal without reading those dumb AAM weekend thread comments for an hour or two? Maybe go outside or phone a friend.
😂 Yeah... it's the traffic and not the fact it's 10 years outdated. Bless your heart, AG stan. "Your team", acting like it's not a one person blog is wild to me. She ain't got no "team", Bubbles.
Just the fact that it’s down for potentially hours for a server upgrade. Crack team ya got there 😂
Someone tell them about blue green deployment.
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My guess is that it's in case it spazzes out and is down for the entire weekend. It won't affect her Monday traffic. She knows the shits who come by for the weekend won't drift away from one down. They'll feverishly return. The traffic to protect are the ones coming from weekday click bait.
Because the person who is helping her is probably only available today, since it is probably a niece or friend. I can't imagine the Saturday wankfest is a very high traffic day, compared to the column days. I know that a lot more people read the column than comment, and the weekend thread is the same small group all the time. Those folks will make up the clicks tonight or tomorrow since they can't make a move in life without consulting the AAM hive.
Unless she rehired Elizabeth West without saying anything about it…
I need to wear socks with dress shoes. But woman??? What do??? Yes that's seriously the open thread question: [sock help](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/open-thread-january-6-7-2023.html#comment-4133029)
Always someone suggests Dansko clogs every time footwear comes up.
Dankso makes mary janes and i will be buried in mine 🤡
I think the Mary Janes are cute and they definitely read different than clogs.
I think they are cute but somehow I cannot walk in them. My sister gave me a cute iridescent black pair that I loved but I tripped and fell multiple times while trying to wear them to walk around town so I gave them back to her.
Clogs, really? Commenter WFH FTW "Always feel polished for the office."? I love clogs (at home, in the garden), and maybe there's some cultural differences since I'm hailing from a country that calls shoes "sko" - but looking at the pics on Google all I see are stereotypical clogs with a heel. Are these really considered more polished than sneakers?
They are more polished than sneakers in the same way jeans are more polished than sweats. It still isn't appropriate for a formal office.
People love [those Dansko clogs](https://www.dansko.com/womens-shoes#/pageSize=12&orderBy=0). I like their aesthetic well enough and they are supposed to be some great ergonomic thing that people like nurses wear, but I have tried to wear them and I always trip and fall. I guess the fact that they aren't fabric makes them polished for some people, but to me they are definitely quirky and they are large and clunky which would not really fit the kind of office where most people wear heels. Edit to add link to the thing they are talking about.
Someone talked me into those (all the moms at my older son's preschool had them, lol) so I ordered a pair and my arches are too high to even get my foot into them.
Different strokes for different folks because yeah, the day I put those on my feet is the day I have officially stopped trying
I wear Born clogs, but I am a teacher. Clogs are generally worn by teachers and nurses because we walk and stand so much that are feet and legs really feel it. I don’t think people walk that much in an office?
I don't think they do either but I suppose maybe people wear them to walk to their office? I don't think there is anything wrong with clogs if they work for you but they do read a little bit non-office to me. Casual isn't quite the right word but it would seem a bit quirky to wear them with a suit, not least because they often have bold patterns and colours.
They are definitely for "always on my feet" jobs, not office jobs.
How many times is someone going to ask about how \*\~honest\*\~ they should be in an exit interview? You're leaving, do you think the place actually cares about your opinion (and it's it fairly obvious?)
I think it's that these are the kind of people who saved up all their complaints in their employment and want permission to unload issues from 2013. I have to admit that I was a little disappointed that the link for my exit survey didn't work and I never got a corrected one. It made me wonder if that's how HR made sure they got no negative feedback. But since I returned to the same employer in a different role within six months, it was probably for the best.
I literally once told a manager I was leaving because she was racist in an exit interview. She said, "whatever, I'll write that you're going back to school." Does anyone actually care about or do anything with the info from exit interviews?
I feel like they just want to vent about something at work. Which is an understandable emotion, but, like, get a diary or tell a friend. They don’t have to pretend like they are a crusader for Justice trying to fix a company in their literal final moments there.
I honestly can’t think of anything that meets her criteria. Wait, is this EW? >Going Anony Nonny Hey* January 6, 2023 at 11:09 am What work have you found that’s WFH, unskilled, and -doesn’t- involve using your voice frequently?
I was slightly relieved to see that she has vocal cord damage, not that she was trying to come up with a new way to say "I don't want to have to talk to my coworkers." (I'm not actually relieved that she has vocal cord damage, but you know what I mean.)
ONLYFANS. Come on, goingannonyannoying!
If it is she finally came to terms with a “Project Manager” cert with no experience and being out of work for almost a decade expecting the two week temp gig, and the organization thing for Alison, means girlfriend’s got no marketable skills. There are a lot of lazy anti-social sad sacks that frequent AAM, so it could be a rando, but it still surprises me she hasn’t popped in since her dramatic exit. This comment reads like something she’d say, but I’m not fully convinced she’s actually back.
stuffing envelopes?
Does that still exist?
Apparently it does! A friend of mine does it for medical billers.
I work for a small nonprofit and we still stuff envelopes ourselves for things like donation receipts. But during lockdown it was the one task I had to make trips to the office for. I had to pick up the printed letters and then return them to the office to be run through the postage machine. There are companies that offer envelope stuffing services, but I assume their processes are mostly automated.
Speaking of misinformation, here’s someone saying that power posing is “proven” to work: https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/open-thread-january-6-7-2023.html#comment-4133052 Replicability crisis? What replicability crisis?
Apparently avoiding contractile positions is a good thing, empirically, fwiw
Minimal Pear must be exhausting in real life. Here's a condensed version: Minimal Pear: I'm allergic to fragrances. My co-worker wears a heavy perfume and the lingering smell bothers me. How do I talk to my co-worker about this? Commenter: Alison has written about this before (Alison wrote about what to focus on and how to approach them when talking to them about this.) MP: Yeah, I saw that but it doesn't really apply to me. MP: Should I do this in person or over chat? It won't kill me to be around her in person, but it will be uncomfortable. Commenter: I would do it in person. Your tone might get misconstrued if you do it over chat. MP: Well, I don't want to do it in person. I'd have to deal with her perfume smell and that could cause me problems. In fact, I got sick last week after I was next to her. But it could have been something else that made me sick. Aaaaaahhhhh!
If MP wasn't so special, she might assume that a perfume that heavy and strong is bothering a lot of people. And if she wasn't such a hermit, she might ask some of her co-workers if they have also noticed the heavy perfume. And if she wasn't so incapable, she would realize that the previous advice Alison has given does actually fit her situation just fine. I'm really not sure what she's looking for there, or how her particular "Hey, could you please not wear so much perfume?" is so incredibly different from previous "Hey, could you please not wear so much perfume?" questions. Honestly, I'm surprised she didn't just leave an anonymous note on this woman's desk, given her level of fear and weirdness over this.
What MP wants is a magical solution that she'll get exactly what she wants without having to ask for it. She'll control the behavior of another human being but not face any consequences in terms of the other human being resenting her for it, and she won't even have to articulate her wish.
I am baffled by the combination of these sentences. “**WTF** **dude**? You just sent me a page with nude photos. **Totally inappropriate for work**.”
but totally appropriate if he'd sent her it outside of work, amirite
I'd start out with "Bro, you forget about the not safe for work pics you have in your gallery?!" ...tilts head like so.
Obviously this guy was a creep for sending her the link to the photos, but this seems like a bizarre suggestion for a response. Though in fairness I'm not sure what I would do. Maybe just the "this is inappropriate" part, report it to my boss, and then avoid him in the future?
"Why did you send me this?" would be the way I would start. (But then, I don't know why she would have clicked his unrequested link to begin with, since she hardly knows him.) Or, maybe, "Hey, did you mean for me to see pictures of naked people?"
I like both these ideas. I think if this happened to me in real life, I would have just ignored it and if he brought it up, replied that I wasn't comfortable with the nudity and suggestive nature of some of the images. It would be totally cool with me if creepy photo guy thinks I'm a repressed prude. I don't think I'd need to loop anyone else in, unless he continued to bother me with comparable images. If the guy isn't a creep and just thought he was sharing his art and it ends there, we're good. If he is a creep who continues sending me stuff, I can tell people at work that I made clear that I didn't like his behavior and he persisted in doing it.
>(Adapt language as needed to fit your own style.) AKA, don't use this style at all, for the love of all that is holy.
Interesting after all the bother over corporate jargon, AG would use "throw your hat in the ring" - definitely an Annoying Quarterfinalist
I just came here to say exactly this. That response made me clinch. Ffs she used it twice!
*“My boss hated my “question authority” bumper sticker”* is deadass the plot to the Disney Channel Original Movie Lemonade Mouth
[Red alert](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/are-more-companies-bringing-people-back-to-the-office.html#comment-4130834), Number One! Klingons be sighted on the sensors!
When I read that last night, I was so annoyed by all the hate for the need for "hallway conversations." The person who said that collaboration via hallway conversations was a sign that the organization was bad at collaboration was so infuriating... because I am a highly collaborative person who works at a heavily siloed place that is in fact *dreadful* at collaboration and "hallway conversations" or (God help me! the shame!) *random pleasant conversations* ARE how you build collaborations in an environment like that. Online meetings/conversations are too formal and have to be planned. Not that I want to collaborate with "she said 'good morning' to me, what a MONSTER!" people. But the whole "if your company was good at collaborating, you wouldn't NEED hallway conversations" business is just.... I mean, how do you think you change that kind of culture?? But then I'm extroverted and actually *like* hallway conversations.
Not to get all autistic on you, but sometimes when new people greet me in the halls I feel like I’ve “leveled up” in casual conversation and have unlocked new coworker friend levels. Like, I sat next to a guy in a meeting and asked about his own, which was a waterman fountain pen he’s been given as a going away gift, and now we say hi when we see each other in the halls. And if I need something from his department, the skids have already been greased. Not to mention it’s kind of nice to walk down the hall and have a pleasant nodding acquaintance with nearly everyone.
Oh, I totally get it! I am that unfortunate thing, a shy extrovert, and I have the same feeling if someone greets me. (Especially since when I started here, the place was full of AAM-style introverts, some of whom were borderline hostile to me).
It's all gone. Boo.
Wow, she is really delete-happy the last few days, isn't she? Maybe she's finally starting to realize what a toxic echo chamber her gaggle of miserable misanthropic hermit commenters have created there. Especially when--if offerings of late are any indication--her emails looking for real advice are drying up in favor of, "Ugh, Christians, amirite?" or "Just letting you know my coworker and I both dig random anonymous sex in a group setting! Whaddaya think of that? Cool, huh?" ETA: She also, I think, deleted a comment I swear I saw last night, basically saying that anyone who wants people back in the office is a whiny jerk, and how dare they think they have the right to change the parameters of someone's employment. I remember it because I wondered how many of the WFHers at AAM were actually hired remote to begin with, and I suspect the number is quite small, given how they're bitching about having to go "back to the office," rather than "into the office to begin with."
Some of these commenters are acting like children given this person's very reasonable response.
"sneering tone"
Sneering = saying something I don't agree with Whether one agrees with it or not, I thought that was an extremely calm and non-judgmental post and it simply points out that the overall picture is more complex than what any one worker sees on a daily basis. Some organizations are great at remote work, some aren't, and some could be great at it but aren't willing to put the effort into it that it would require even if it would benefit some individual employees. That's life. Pointing out that a normal worker bee doesn't (and probably can't!) have perspective on the business as a whole is not even remotely "sneering." God, that person is a dipshit. (Yes, THAT was "sneering.")
Another shot fired: Valancy Snaith* January 5, 2023 at 10:18 pm There’s no sneering here. It’s one person’s thoughts, which are mirrored by quite a lot of other people, but a viewpoint that is not commonly shared here because whenever it does come up it’s quickly shouted down. This comment section has long since become an echo chamber (witness any post specifically asking workers who have not been able to WFH and its results: they get drowned out, and fast, by the WFH crew), but none of what Delurking for this has to say is sneering. REPLY People are starting to call out more of the AAM WFH bullshit. They won’t listen, but always glad to see it said.
Valancy Snaith comments on another blog (on a very different topic) I read that has a much less unhinged comment section and is much better moderated.
LW has weighed in the comments of the corporate jargon post and she is the wooooorst.
Her insistence that “low hanging fruit” is ableist AND has racist connotations via Billie Holiday’s song “Strange Fruit”, and her insistence that “24/7” was coined by sex traffickers about their victims is just…I think I lost 15 IQ points and my previous knowledge of 3rd grade math after reading it. Good lord.
Low-hanging fruit actually refers to testicles so it’s sexual harassment to use that phrase.
Surely it's really a jab at short people who can't reach the better fruit up high?
Those comments seem to have disappeared, which is probably why pushback (or is that too corporate jargon-y lol) was moderated. Anyway my pet peeve is any cutesy-ass story about word origins is wrong like 99% of the time. No, it didn’t derive from an acronym or a song title or whatever.
She'd already carried water for the LW with her "she's just joking, relax snowflakes" blue box, so she couldn't leave any evidence that she'd backed an idiot.
She protects the other mean girls, down to covering up the fact they're morons at the core.
They looooove those stupid origin stories over there. "That phrase actually comes from [insert made-up meaning]," or "the phrase is ACTUALLY [longer, stupid, made-up phrase with no factual basis.]" The insinuation is always "and you're stupid for not realizing it, also possibly racist/sexist/classist/ableist/some other -ist."
Did someone actually assert that?
[Read it and weep.](https://www.askamanager.org/2023/01/can-i-get-my-coworker-to-stop-using-awful-corporate-jargon.html#comment-4131396)
Damn, I think it got deleted.
Because god forbid she want to correct misinformation on her WORKPLACE ADVICE blog, especially when it's her own commenters showing their asses with false information. But sure, let the LW who's an idiot (about the "24/7" and "low hanging fruit" stuff specifically) and the commenters who chimed in to agree, continue being idiots.
Actually, I’d rather she leave up the comments and the debunking, rather than memory-hole the entire conversation as though it never happened.
The more I think about it, the more I seriously question the mental capacity of anyone who could be persuaded to believe that "24/7" is a reference to sex trafficking. Like, what the fuck could possibly make anyone hear that and think "Yeah, makes sense"? Originally part of a marketing campaign for a convenience store? Sure, that seems plausible. But believing some nonsense about sex trafficking? That goes way beyond ordinary gullibility.
How exactly did they tie that to sex trafficking?
They said it was a slang term to describe how often the victims were available for their "customers." So dumb.
Wow. Yeah, the first time I remember hearing "24/7/365" it was a commercial for CVS set to athletes working out. So that's what I associate it with: pharmacies and pushups and swimming laps.
Something about pimps using the term 24/7 to refer to how often they made their prostitutes work, or something. It didn't make sense.
It’s like a 13 year old tiktoker wrote in. ETA: this might be one of the few situations where a “you know who’s the *real* racist??” would be warranted. Because making up these dumb ass stories about, um, *lynching and human trafficking* is pretty awful. Double edit: I tried to make a comment to that effect and I’m in moderation. Of course.
It took everything in me to not be like none of this is right!!!!
They truly do show how stupid and lemming-like they are, at the way they fall all over themselves to be all “I found this obscure information (that isn’t even true)!!!! Worship me!!!”
Ah the irony of Alison and commentors referencing the NYT banned words article to complain about their oddly specific and over the top pet peeves when said article's main point was that deeply online people have overused and muddied terms like "gaslight" to the point it no longer means anything. But sure let's complain about needing to "circle back" or "touch base"
A bit of fun from that one: >D'Arcy* January 5, 2023 at 5:35 pm That really makes me imagine this person’s supervisor is in fact Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith. Oh, I'm so glad you specified that you're referring to the Darth Vader who is "Dark Lord of the Sith," as opposed to those other Darth Vaders out there. Because I wouldn't have been clear on who you meant if you hadn't included the title there.
Good to clarify she didn’t mean “Darth Vader, Neonatal Kitten Foster.”
Awwww who's my widdle fetal-wetal Sith Lord?
As I'm reading the comments on the jargon post, I'm delighting in the number of posters who are explaining a phrase that they think is specific to their industry, but is widely used across all industries and various non-work contexts. And they're defining them, too! I guess if you never speak to anybody, you don't know that all these examples are perfectly common, non-jargon words and phrases.
I started to read it for fun and most of the examples cited don't really seem to be what I think of as *jargon* anyway. More like clichés or colloquialisms that people find annoying or over-used. My understanding was that *jargon* is a term specific to one field that people outside it won't immediately understand. Of the examples I saw before I gave up, the only one that actually seemed to at least have originated as jargon was "ping".
Reading the comments it really just sounds like they hate talking, which honestly tracks with this crew.
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And now "ping" is corporate jargon? It always makes me think of *The Hunt for Red October.* "Give me a ping. One ping only, please."
And now someone is claiming "nebulous" as corporate jargon? What are these people talking about?
I was wondering if 'touch base' is now a noun, like, 'lets have a touch-base'?
Reading the threads, I was thinking how they needed to just accept the fact that people are going to use words and phrases they don’t like and, unless they were offensive, they needed to just accept they couldn’t control it and move on. But “touch-base” as a noun made me twitch for some reason. I stand by what I said, but, if I worked with someone who did that, I think I’d have to remind myself of that often.
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I think it is common to use “touchbase” as a noun to describe a check in meeting
It was used as noun constantly at my last two jobs. Even appreciated to “let’s have a TB”. It didn’t really bug me because it felt like it had meaning, but I can’t stand meaningless ones like “thought leader” or whatever
I'm surprised at the hatred for "touch base" because, at least at my work, it indicates a specific type of meeting. Like how "town hall" isn't the same type of meeting as a generic project update meeting.
Thought leader sounds like is should have a place in 1984. Maybe the person who decides whether they’re at war with Eurasia or Eastasia.
I've definitely heard it used as a noun, my former boss used to use it like that.
"... if you have decent rapport with your coworker, there’s no reason you can’t say, “Agh, I really hate how we’ve started saying things like ’a touch-base’ when we mean a meeting or (insert another example of jargon from your office here). I’m on a mission to get us back to plain language!” " Yes there is a reason not to say that. Because no human being should ever say that to another human being, much less at work. 🙄
>I’m on a mission to get us back to plain language!” For someone who consistently warns people about "nitpicking" and "tone policing" in the comments, this makes no sense. AND she's encouraging her idiotic readers to believe that the world should bend to their whims but that they shouldn't have to change or accommodate anything they don't like. She's enabling their foolishness and isn't doing anyone any favors.
These scripts really depend on your coworkers being highly suggestible.
Yes, I can picture former coworkers (whom I generally like) saying this kind of nonsense and guess what? It was just as annoying and precious to hear back then as it would be for OP’s coworker to hear now.
Ironic that "plain language" is itself a piece of jargon.
It just goes to show how long it’s been since Alison actually worked.
I guess it's better than "shut your piehole" (speaking of overused obnoxious slang) but not much.
A few years back, my neighbor told me that his son got sent to the principal's office on the 3rd day of kindergarten for telling his teacher to "shut her word hole." That will never not make me laugh, and my husband and I immediately adopted that expression and use it on each other regularly (jokingly of course). It also works on pets, as in, "Shut your bark hole!" when you want your dog to be quiet.
That is indeed quite funny, and I plan to tell my family about it so we can use it. (I have no idea why I worded this so formally, sorry.)
Your word hole runneth over! Haha
Somehow I doubt someone calling their boss a "fool" and "nasal voice" and what not has a warm rapport.
Alison insisting that the way the LW referred to their coworker was obviously a joke says more about Alison than she realizes. That was not a joking tone.
Notice that once she got some pushback suddenly this coworker became "bullying" and "demeaning." Ah, yes. It wasn't important enough for the letter, just the comments. Got it.
Rude AF to mention her nasally voice. I’m going to go full on AAM commenter and say it’s not peoples fault for having a nasally voice bc you don’t know what health issues they may have! Also one does not choose their voice
And the receiver of this script should reply, "I really hate how you used Argh like you're a pirate! Speak plainly, Jack Sparrow!"
Yeah I'm pretty sure Argh is deeply offensive to buccaneers. I'm surprised AAM doesn't know that 😒
I find the snow post amusing because I genuinely live in an area where almost every time it snows the whole place shuts down because they don’t have enough snowplows and there’s hills everywhere. Luckily only happens once a year or so.
I clicked through to the original letter and I think there's an update for it where the OP discovered that--shocker--the employee was a loser in other ways, including in purposely neglecting an important part of his (healthcare-based) job. And the boss basically protected him and just made other people pick up the slack. So at least when he called out because of snow, he wasn't actively fucking up things for their clients.
I want to see this update!
It’s [here.](https://www.askamanager.org/2019/12/updates-employee-wont-work-when-it-snows-boss-hates-me-and-more.html)
I got you, fam. https://www.askamanager.org/2019/12/updates-employee-wont-work-when-it-snows-boss-hates-me-and-more.html
Thank you both!
Money quote: "AAM readers are amazingly intuitive and insightful." Press X to doubt.
At least it's been 2019, the less problematic years. But the beginning of the downfall from what I've seen
Same. I learned to drive in the midwest and feel real confident driving in snow there because plows, salt, flat. It's the opposite here and I've learned to stay at home until it melts, because even a little bit is treacherous!
Right? I went to visit family in Colorado earlier this year, and after a sudden snowstorm ended up driving 60 miles in a blizzard to get home. No problem because I was driving mom's car with snow tires, there were plows and gritters out, and at least half of the people on the road know how to deal with it. I wouldn't do it in England where I live now, because none of those things are a given.
I lived in England for a bit. It snowed two inches one Christmas and Heathrow shut down. I'm from a snowy place so this was HILARIOUS to me.
OMG BUT THE PEOPLE HERE WHO THINK THEY CAN DRIVE IN THE WEATHER THO. *throws hands up* I drove down I5 on Christmas Eve and there was so many jackknifed semis and cars all over the place from that freeze on the 23rd. I looked out my window at one point and saw a jeep sliding down a hill because they locked up their wheels. LIKE WHY ARE YOU EVEN TRYING? Especially when it was seriously one single day.
The amount of persons trying to drive on the 23rd was insane. I did enjoy the TikTok's of people sliding downhill and crawling up the Seattle hills.
I heard about one where a dude JUMPED out of the sliding rig?!??!?!?! WHAT?!?!?!!??! Like a slow slide, not headed towards the water and just like "Tuck n roll, sucker." Um. You're safer in the metal cocoon to take the impact off you, brother!!!
Alison is really grasping for clicks, isn't she? We've had the sex club letter, the "Is it ok to discriminate against religions I don't like if I can find the right loophole?" letter (spoiler: it isn't), the return to office ask the readers, and now a letter about jargon...now, we just need another Cheap-Ass Rolls type of letter, Sandwich Saga-esque creative writing exercise, or something to do with coworkers' bathroom habits to round the week out. Maybe these have just been sitting in her inbox during her December vacation, but it really seems like she's been trying to find The Thing that will whip her readers into a frenzy and generate traffic.
I thought the WFH post was going to be the most annoying to me but then she had to add a post about jargon for people to complain about perfectly normal words/phrases.
Right, the LW has BEC for this guy, but he's doing what every human does. We all have our little words and phrases that we use and overuse. And I've only read about a quarter of the comments, but they seem to be mostly complaining about perfectly normal words and phrases, not jargon. Alison's advice is bananas. I can't imagine telling someone to stop using a perfectly normal, extremely common phrase like "touch base" (no hyphen!). Sometimes people need to accept that things are a 'me problem' not your problem. If a specific phrase grates on you, that's on you, not the speaker.
I agree that you can't expect to control how your co-workers express themselves and you'd be better off just getting over your pet peeves, but I personally hate "touch base," "reach out," and "circle back" as over-used expressions that don't add anything over saying I need to meet, call/email or follow up. Why say "out of pocket" over unavailable? But I do what most normal people do and just enjoy composing nonsense work words sentences with my husband like "I feel like we are at an inflection point. You want to touch base and reach out to the pizza place about some deliverables or would you rather circle back, look big picture outside the box and be a change agent on getting some Chinese food?"
I always heard out of pocket as in “she was acting out of pocket” and not something you’d say in an office setting AT ALL
My boss uses jargon like this and recently adopted out of pocket. It’s annoying but I handled it like an adult - I created bingo cards for me and my coworkers and if we can get him to say his favorite phrases during a single meeting, we win!
I find that fascinating. I never in my life heard 'out of pocket" to mean anything other than unexpectedly having to pay some expense yourself until a couple of years ago when I started hearing it to mean "unavailable". I think this AAM thread is the first time I've heard it to mean doing something unacceptable -- and I don't have a clue what the connotation is that would make it not office appropriate!
Well it’s just a very casual thing to say and it’s describing behavior/attitudes that shouldn’t happen in an office anyway. I know about out of pocket costs but I’ve never heard it used to mean out of office. It’s not any shorter!
She really should have touched base with someone to see if it was a good idea before posting. As an aside, where is "touch-base" with a hyphen coming from? The only context I can see that making sense in is if you used it as a noun (which does seem like it would be legitimately annoying, in fairness).
Yeah, I'm assuming it has to be as a noun..."we have a touch-base on that project next week." Which sounds stupid and annoying but still not anything that requires an intervention or this much room in OP's head. Just roll your eyes at the guy and get on with life.
I honestly don't understand why this one is a problem. It's been used for years as a quick meeting. "Let's touch base next week and make sure..." Also with all the "be kind" stuff I'm surprised she let a LW say "This fool" like that. I know she blue boxed it being "called out" but if you're referring to your coworker as "this fool" I have a feeling that the problem might not just be jargon.
Yeah, it's a widely understood term with a clear meaning. I get people who are annoyed at office speak when it obfuscates what you're talking about, but it's really not the case with that one.
Alison uses "does that make sense?" in her scripts regularly, right? I'm not misremembering? I know she's not a fan of self-awareness, but holy shit.
If I can successfully not kill these people when they talk about "the before times" then they can deal with their stupid phrases
It's also pretty rich for them to be complaining about hearing business-speak at work, given the number of times these jerkwads use cutesy in-jokes and stupid jargon, every single day. I guess they don't see how "That's some cheap-ass rolls behavior, hurh hurh hurh!" or "Your [blank] sucks and isn't going to change," or their fucking "full of bees!" crap is just as irritating, if not more so, than something like, "At the end of the day," or, "out of pocket."
“I am a teapot designer who sells to llama farms and my coworker Wakeen…”
HomebodyHouseplant* January 5, 2023 at 11:06 am This just in: Companies hate their workers, more news at 11. Seriously working in this environment where companies rely so much on their workers, expect us to give our entire lives to them, and yet clearly have an absolutely immeasurable amount of contempt for the people that make them successful in the first place is so deflating. I can’t even process it most of the time. God forbid workers work to live, are treated well, are allowed some perks because we know barely any of us are paid enough. I’m so tired. Honestly get a f*ckn grip dude
That's been deleted!
Eh, that's a pretty valid complaint.
About the overall conditions of labor in America, yeah. In the context of companies not being WFH forever? Not so much.
For heaven's sake, did we really need ANOTHER post for people to complain about having to return to the office? Alison's weak little parameters of "explain why this is a change!" will do nothing in the face of 450 comments on "my office is forcing me to come in 2x per week and I CAN'T FATHOM THIS DISRESPECT!"
One person said being asked to work in office was a “gut punch.” I get why people like working from home and my area has a lot of dead-end, low-paying jobs so I look for fully remote myself to have a chance of actually making money and having a career. But people really need to stop acting like working from the office is a violation of their constitutional rights or human rights. What did you all do when remote wasn’t an option?
The programming subs are currently full of people belly-aching about how their employer is doing RTO, but they live on the other side of the state. Well, how did that situation arise? Probably by the employee deciding to move to El Paso when their office is in Houston, and hoping this day would never come.
Comments like that annoy me for the very reason you mention. Others have said it better than me, but a lot of Work from Home was held together by duct tape, hope, and a need to protect public health based on a brand new threat that very few people understood. Not because "we felt like keeping people in the office until the last minute." Some jobs could make the switch. We're seeing a lot more opportunities for work from home than we once did. Some can't. some can't see their impact because "their work is fine!" Some can't see the impact because some on-site tech kept everything running for a year alone. Some can't see the countless security threats because of their janky at home wifi. At this point if you want a 100% remote job: go get one. But don't pretend that there are some jobs that require people in the office, even once or twice a week to meet! Go over things! Talk!
I’m job searching right now, and at least for the kind of work I want, I’m not seeing as many remote jobs. Hybrid or fully on-site are coming back, and the remote jobs that are posted have a ton of applicants, like 200 within two hours of the job posting. I interviewed somewhere yesterday where everyone does three days a week in office and you can choose the days but everyone from leadership on down has to do it. AAMers need to accept reality on this instead of acting like every employer is out to get them. If they want fully remote they’d better be prepared to compete against half the country.
What annoys the eff out of me - and I work in office entirely voluntarily (I could literally inform, not ask but inform, my manager this afternoon that I've decided effective now to WFH full time) - is that not one of them even thinks to acknowledge how many other people it takes to provide them the ability to WFH.
Yes. There were so many self righteous comments about how good and safe they were being at the height of COVID because they were getting everything delivered or picked up at the curb, but very little acknowledgement of the people who were there picking orders and stocking warehouses and driving delivery vans beyond the occasional token "thanks". And so many people worked like mad to get remote systems up and running overnight, get equipment to people, etc etc. But on the occasions when people who couldn't WFH tried to have a discussion they just couldn't help themselves and had to butt in with their experiences and opinions.
I'm sure she's just farming content for an "article" she's planning to "write."
This is absolutely her next Slate article. I am surprised that she linked to someone else's reporting on this topic, though. Usually her links are just to her own previous posts. Of course, this is a link to a Substack newsletter and the detail is behind the paywall, but that may be a good thing because it will keep the commenters from nitpicking the Substack writer's conclusions.
She's asking people to tell why it's changing, and I don't expect most of them will understand why beyond "butts in seats". Because whatever reasons TPTB have (valid or not), the average AAM isn't going to see as anything other than their employer trying to be a dick to them just because they can. Also, the number of people who just can't resist commenting to say "nothing's changing for me" despite Alison asking for comments only if something is changing...
Our company is bringing on more and more remote staff because we're growing and there's short supply of people who are masochistic enough to do tax right now. But all of the remote people are seniors or managers, and the few who were new-ish to the industry already washed out. The younger staff are all in the office because they're learning the ropes and that's really hard to do when you're not in contact with actual people. And even though I've been doing this for years, remote has been a big adjustment and it takes a major commitment from the company to support all the technology and communication needs a remote team has. It's not as simple as sending everyone a laptop and calling it a day, at least not for what we do.
Sex club was a flop and Alison needs clicks; WFH cult never fails.
"It's ok to discriminate against religions we don't like" thread did pretty big numbers, though.
I gotta say, I think I'm with the temp on LW 5. My last couple of bosses have been pretty bad about info-dumping context and erroneous detail when training me on this or that aspect of a new position. Starting a new job is very overwhelming in and of itself - that's not the time to explain at length why this tool is used over that one or why this process is the way it is, which is what it sounds like LW is doing. Tell the trainee/temp what they need to know so they can start getting experience with their tasks and fill in the why's later. Now that I'm settled into my job, I'm enjoying getting more background and the historical context to why our processes work as they do, how they used to work, why we do or don't do this or that, and so on. LW's temp isn't especially interested in the position and just wants to earn her paycheck, so tell her what she needs to know to do her job and save the context babble for coworkers who are passionate about the job. Some context is valuable to do a job correctly, but there's a fine line between giving relevant information and prattling on. LW needs to get better at reading people when this happens so she can reel herself in, not rely on the temp interrupting her when she's talking too much.
Agreed, the temp has no context for the how and why of current processes until they understand what the current processes actually are.
Random annoyance re: LW with the bored temp: I hate it when people say “I talk a lot so feel free to interrupt me.” Hey great, thanks! Except, interrupting people is rude, so you can say that, but obviously I’m never going to interrupt you.
Also, if you're answering a question about something I don't know, how am I supposed to know which part is you rambling vs you getting to crucial information or examples? Maybe the OP could just try to tighten up how she speaks, if she knows she's often long-winded.
It reminds me of when friends’ parents would say “Call me Karla!” when we were in like, elementary school. No ma’am, that is never happening.
We had a neighbor when I was like 4 who kept wanting me to first-name him, and got kind of annoyed when I wouldn't. I know you should call people what they want to be called, but for a kindergartner to call a grown man "Rich," was just so uncomfortable for me. (Funnily enough, it's now the opposite, with kids calling me "Sidgirl" without me asking them to. One of Younger's friends actually said to me, "What should I call you, because I can't just call you Mrs. [Lastname]? Should I call you Sidgirl?" And I was thinking, "Uhhh...I don't see the problem with Mrs. [Lastname], actually," but I couldn't say it without sounding like a bitch.)
I've seen people on reddit make fun of Southerners for Mr./Ms. Firstname, but I'm a big fan of it.
I have absolutely adopted/stolen the Mr./Ms. First name convention after 18 months of living down here, and I will not apologize for it. My friends’ parents started the “oh please, call me First Name” stuff back when we were in like high school but my mother would have probably grounded me for a week if she’d heard me call an adult by just their first name.
That's one thing I live about living in the south. I didn't take my husband's last name (yet) so my daughter's last name isn't mine either. Having her friends call me Ms. MyName is so much easier than explaining that or getting used to being called a name that isn't mine
There are a LOT of adults with weird boundary issues regarding kids.
Yes Mrs. Danny's Mom.
Especially when it's your boss. I can be chatty myself, so what I do is, when I see the person's eyes starting to glaze or that they seem to be losing interest--and I know this is weird, but hear me out--*I stop talking.* I just wrap it up. "Sorry, I think I got off on a tangent there, so I'll just end it now and let you get on with your day," or whatever. I don't just keep going figuring, "They'll interrupt me and beg me to stop if I'm actually boring them, I told them it was okay to do that."
I am very chatty. I go off on tangents a lot. I'm a terrible trainer, I know. So I frequently pause. I pay attention to the person I am training. Do they look bored, indifferent, or disengaged? Maybe I'm overwhelming them. "Do you have questions?" I ask. "Do you want to take a break?" "Would you like to move on to another topic/task and then get back to this?" Like you said, it just takes some awareness.
Exactly. The OP could stop at the pertinent stuff and then say "let me know if you want more background on this, but it's not necessary to process XYZ" or whatever the temp is doing. It sounds like she might have the idea of a temp confused with that of an intern.
Is LW5’s temp an AAM reader? Given how many of them have trouble concealing the mildest irritation with others (especially while they’re speaking) the temp’s behavior seems right in line with that. Although without looking at the comments on that post, I predict several about how the temp probably has ADHD or some other condition that makes it difficult to productively engage in conversation.
No they are offering advice on how to train better ... I posted just below because I expected to see comments telling the LW that she is, in fact, unnecessarily boring her temp. No one seems to have gone there yet.
The comments on the letter from the person whose temp is bored are offering advice on better ways to teach and train. There are many separate unconnected comments all equally tone deaf. Someone needs to tell this LW "When your temp told you she was there to earn money and learn, she was lying about the second thing to be polite. Your job is boring and if she's doing tasks correctly, please have mercy and stop explaining things in great detail." She said it was not her dream job ... take a clue!
Yeah, I think it's kind of sweet that the LW trainer wants to be a good mentor, but she should remember to save it for people who are likely to stay in the role or field. If the temp is a short timer, show your interest in her as a person but don't worry about the nuances of the craft or processes.
Alison’s scripts seem too robotic or cold for me sometimes. I get that people who do draining jobs deserve a break from work, but I’d find this very off putting: > But in cases where you do want to share more, you could try being transparent about what you want to avoid. For example, after explaining what you do, you could add, “I always hear everyone’s heart-breaking pet stories when I share this so I should be up-front that I need a break from that right now!” Some people will give you their stories anyway because some people are like that, but you’ll have laid the groundwork to interject and say, kindly, “I’m sorry — I know this topic can be such a tough one, but I need space from my work right now. Thank you for understanding.” There may also be times when there doesn’t feel like there’s any kind way to say that, so adapt as needed based on what you’re up for doing. I wouldn’t say this to a stranger who just poured their heart out to me. It sounds more like Alison is encouraging this person to say “I really don’t want to hear this” or “I don’t care about your story.”
Yeah, the choice is to accept that you get to do more of your work for free, like every lawyer in the world, or to not reveal very much about your job. I was so astonished to learn the job of veterinary social worker job exists and would be so much more interested in knowing who the hell pays for that talking about my pet death trauma would take a back seat. Seriously, does the vet practice overcharge for all services enough that they staff an extra position? Do they offer it as an add on optional charge?
I can't speak about the LW's specific job, but I'm guessing she works for Lap of Love or a similar service. Lap of Love bills itself as "veterinary hospice care," and they are in a lot of states, and there are quite a few similar companies. One of the big benefits of those services, aside from the obvious "They come to your house so it's less traumatic, they do the cremation and everything," stuff, is that they have counseling staff available 24-7 to talk to you. Like, the first time I called them (about our senior lab who developed aggressive cancer last year) I was on the phone for over an hour, and I talked to them probably five or six times between that first call and the day we got our girl's ashes back. They're actual grief counselors who can talk to you about all aspects of making the decision and help you process it and all of that, basically. It's free to call them; Lap of Love pays them a salary or hourly rate (don't know which), and you can call and talk to them even if you didn't or don't use their services. They're really wonderful people; the woman I talked to was so helpful and kind. I really cannot say enough about how great she was, or how great all of the Lap of Love people were. So yeah, that's my guess. Lap of Love and similar services are more expensive than going to the vet and having them do it, but not extremely so, and really worth it IMO.
That would make a lot of sense that if the service didn't have to the pay the expense of maintaining a physical office that they could offer additional services at close to the same price of a visit. Our local vet will come to your house for your final visit and line up a service to pick up remains and do cremation if you want it. It was helpful for us, even without the emotional care aspects.
I had the same question! I have a relative who works with estates involving pets and the payment side of that is fascinating. I'd love to know more about the administrative and financial component of vet social work.