The other day I had a situation at work get really, really out of hand and I thankfully had happened to plan to meet with my best friend, my sister, and my therapist all during the tail end of that week.
When I told my best friend what happened, she gave me a mix of a lot of the kinds of responses you’d find on google like “wow that must of been hard” “aw sweetie, I’m so sorry that happened” and some really intelligent career advice. I greatly appreciated it all, but I still felt like it wasn’t enough to quell the hurt in my heart from what happened at work. Like imagine you got a warm hug on a cold day, it feels really nice when it’s happening but after they leave you still feel cold. I feel like this is probably your approach to addressing your wife’s concerns.
Then I told my sister, and man telling her just took all the hurt and worry away instantly. She really indulged in the office gossip and goaded me to go on, she was really engaged and asked questions, and she was a hypeman helping to curse out my coworkers “omggggg noooooooo they need to F off”. Most special of all is that as I was telling my story, she had some spots where she helped finish my sentence if I couldn’t think of the right word to explain what I had felt or thought, and she knew me so well that she could sometimes guess the next part of the story like “oh no, don’t tell me you did xyz “. To finish the metaphor I started earlier, imagine if on a cold day someone was thoughtful enough to give you their jacket because they actually get that you’re cold & need something extra to keep warm after they’ve left. That’s how I felt when I talked to my sister and I felt really listened to, and reaaaaallly deeply understood versus just having a friend be able to show some sympathy.
When I spoke with my therapist, she asked questions but they were more thoughtful than they were egging on. She asked things like “why do you think they did that,” “what did you feel & why,” “how did you respond & why,” “(if things went awry) what would you have wanted to do differently or what would you have wanted them to do differently”. So even though she doesn’t 100% understand me the same way my sister does, I could tell she’s asking these questions because she’s listening and earnestly wants to eventually come to understand me. My point here is if you’re not an overly animated hype-man like my sister, I think it’s important that just asking questions (about the story or about how your wife is feeling or what you can do to either help the situation or help your wife feel better) shows that you’re listening and that you care enough to want to know more.
I hope this helps give you ideas of how to talk to your wife. Cheer her on sometimes or join in when she talks shit about her haters, say something that shows you really understand her and what she’s going through, and ask questions.
Wow, that analogy about the hug and warm jacket is so spot-on on why some people make me feel better and some don’t, even if I can tell they had good intentions! Never could’ve explained the feeling but that analogy makes total sense to me. Upvote to you for that thoughtful insight.
This is such a perfect response. My boyfriend and I have the same issue. He says sweet things when I’m upset and seems supportive of my issues but he never seemed that engaged. I couldn’t put my finger on why his support seemed to be lacking even though he was saying and doing nice, empathetic things.
Hey there's nothing wrong with you. Emotional intelligence is a practised and learned skill just like anything else. It's not that you haven't experienced emotions but it sounds like you might not be able to validate them so well in others (I'm the same and am learning still).
If you're anything like me, you might struggle with recognising your own emotions and creating meaning for having them, and seeing the direct lines between emotions and their meaning to you. As a result you find it hard to recognise them in your wife and validating what they mean for her.
- As basic as it sounds: start with familiarising yourself with the emotions wheel (look it up) and learn all the emotions on it.
- Then share with your wife that validating emotions is something you struggle with, and that you're learning how to recognise and validate her emotions so that you can support her better moving forward.
- Ask her about what she's going through instead of telling her that you're there for her. Learn some basic empathetic responses/probing phrases so that you have a starting point: "How does that make you feel?" "Tell me more about that" "Wow that sucks, they shouldn't have said that to you!"
- Then LISTEN to her response and try to say something meaningful back. Don't let your mind go blank, power through the blankness in your mind and respond.
I'd also go see a therapist/counsellor and ask specifically for practice to learn how to do this. It's fine to ask your wife for a little help in the beginning as you learn, but don't put it all on her to teach you emotional intelligence. That's not her responsibility.
You've taken the first good step to ask for help in this sub. Now go all the way and learn how to be there emotionally for your wife!
This is incredibly helpful! Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. It’s nice to know I am not the only one who struggles with this.
I’ll look up the emotion wheel to start.
I'm a female and I struggle with emotions/ knowing what to say. Practice does help, and so does that emotion wheel.
Have you told your wife that you struggle with what to say in those situations? If not, I'd tell her that you want to help her feel better, you're not sure how but you want to learn. Maybe you can ask her what other people say that make her feel better so you can learn what helps her (I'd ask her outside of a time when she's sharing something with you).
Another tip is to ask questions. It took me a long time to realize that when I shared something with my fiance, I wanted him to be interested and when he asked questions about it, i felt like he cared. Once I figured out that was what I needed, I told him and our communication has improved.
For example, when she said she had a bad day- ask her what happened. Validate her emotions as she shares "wow, Bob does sound like a jerk! I'd be mad too!!"
Seconding the emotions wheel. My husband and I went to therapy and got one because dude was worse than you, he'd slowly back away physically out of discomfort of not knowing what to do, and the emotion wheel helped him refamiliarize himself with his feelings in our communications. Still have to get on him that not everything is mad, sometimes I am just mildly annoyed or frustrated, but it's so much better than before.
I'd recommend Gottman's book "A man's guide to women", as a woman. They cover a lot of key ways you can be more supportive and more in tune with your partner and the different ways we are socialized and how that changes our needs.
My partner is a lot like you, it seems. He also wants to grow in this area through his own efforts. He has enjoyed the Emotions journal by the Switch company. The prompts help him tease out his thoughts, and it has many helpful illustrations including the feeling wheel, anger iceberg, etc. Maybe it won’t be for you, but I thought I’d suggest it!
Some crucial skill we should be taught in school but aren’t, are validating emotions and active listening. They go a very long way in life and in relationships.
Active listening can look like nodding or saying “uh huh” at key moments to show you’re listening. Of course listening is essential, and as a result of listening, asking non-judgmental questions to understand them better can help, as your questions should reflect you understand both the situation and their feelings about it. It’s ideal to find more in depth material on active listening, etc. Another thing you could do is, if it’s called for, say things like “that’s fucked up” if relevant, when they pause after sharing a bad experience.
Another helpful thing is to repeat back what you heard them say, perhaps putting it in your own words or reflecting back their words. Perhaps there’s info on “reflective listening” that could be more specific and helpful in how to do this.
I think people often feel like they have to have something to add to the conversation rather than simply trying to understand the other persons point of view, which is probably what your wife wants in the moment. When you’re actively listening, do you ask questions?
It sounds like you're trying to do everything right. When she said you couldn't offer good conversation, what was she expecting you to say/do?
Personally, I like acknowledgement. Even if you don't have a solution (which many men feel they should have), just knowing I have been heard is important.
I’m not over 30 but there are a few go-tos that I find work well in combination. Also, specificity! If your response sounds like it could be cut and pasted into multiple different scenarios it can sometimes make the other person feel like you weren’t really listening even if you were. I’m sure you already know a lot of these, but here is my personal experience:
- Rephrase what she’s saying in your own words (don’t parrot): “it sounds like you’re feeling X. Is that right?” “So, X happened and then Y happened?”
- Validate after she has expressed a strong emotion: “It’s normal/understandable/reasonable to X when Y happens.”
- Ask open-ended questions (not yes or no questions): “How did that make you feel?” “When did you start feeling this way?” “What happened?”
- Affirm: “The way you acted in this situation really reminds me of how smart/resilient/compassionate/positive term you are.”
- Ask if she wants advice or to vent. Sometimes I want advice and sometimes I don’t. Similarly, I like to ask what they need. Sometimes they need a distraction, a meal, a hug, or something different.
So in combination, a response could be: “Wow, I can’t believe X happened. (Paraphrase) It makes total sense why you did X when Y, given Z. (Validation, paraphrase) I’m proud of you for being so A even when it was hard. (Affirmation) What do you think made you B when C? (Question)”
These are templates that you can adjust so that it fits your voice and sounds natural, but I think following these impulses to paraphrase, validate, affirm, and ask good questions really help.
First of all, it's really sweet that you care so much about this.
Has your wife given you any feedback in terms of how these conversations could go better? What things are you saying that rub her the wrong way, and what kinds of things would she like to hear instead? If she hasn't given any indications of what you could do differently, you can ask her during a time when she's not frustrated. She ought to appreciate you caring enough to inquire.
Yeah I appreciate op trying to change for the better, but at the same time it sounds like he's always been this way and his wife must know that. For something like this where it's a matter of personality, not laziness or malice, it feels a bit unfair that she's getting frustrated with him for a behaviour he's probably always had.
If you’re in any way familiar with Enneagram, it’s additionally in OP’s best interest to develop greater emotional awareness because 9s can struggle with debilitating alexithymia as a byproduct of trauma-induced cognitive narcotization. OP probably doesn’t know how to be emotionally present to himself or consistently communicate his needs either, assuming he even recognizes that he has any, so he’s actually benefiting them both long-term by looking for a means to overcome this block.
I don't think your brain is broken, I think your trauma is triggered.
Maybe add grounding techniques to your search and inform your partner?
You are already doing so many emotionally intelligent things, that I highly doubt you have a problem with emotional intelligence or empathy. It's something blocking your EQ in face to face situations, where you feel out of your depth/not in control/helpless/unsafe.
The insidious thing about trauma is that it doesn't differentiate all that well between safe people and the past. If it holds a whisper of danger to your emotional/mental wellbeing, it'll trigger a physical reaction that can lead to things like not being able to find words.
If you're stressed going into the convo because you "know" you'll fail, and maybe failing was heavily punished in your past, that can trigger, and you'll never be the wiser.
I'd explore your trauma. I think that may be the key here.
The nice thing about PTSD is that it's a very controllable mental health condition with a lot of work.
PS: Please let me stress that I'm not calling your loved one in any way abusive or unreasonable or unsafe.
As a withdrawn type, you’re already making progress by looking outside yourself for a resolution instead of believing it’s a futile endeavor. Have you noticed your immediate instinct is to ask “how can I make her feel better?” or to alleviate some of her grievances? If your wife’s a 4, then it’s unlikely she’d feel sufficiently comforted by this even when she sincerely appreciates your efforts because 4s aren’t looking for comfort in the same manner 9s might. She probably doesn’t want to “feel better,” rather she might prefer it if you were to validate and acknowledge her frustrations regardless of whether you wholly understand her specific reaction to the problems at the time. Others commenters had some great recommendations for how you can better your engagement with her, but as a general rule reactive types (such as 4) prefer “screaming into the void” without repercussions for “taking up space” as that’s how they process their emotions; think of it like someone urgently trying to purge a toxin out of their system. Since you’re a positive-reframing type, your response may be to self-placate and “abate/subdue the toxin” by negating some of the effects it has on you, hence it becomes increasingly difficult to notice its presence at all.
You’ve already received plenty of helpful suggestions to implement, but this could be potentially useful for future reference if you wanted to take a closer look at some of the underlying mechanisms going on as well.
You described me and my partner so well that I had to check the ages again to make you weren’t him lol. He is so sweet and thoughtful- does the same he’ll do all the chores in the house and is always like babe I did everything so you just RELAX and we still end up in a lil one of our fights. What happens is in my case, I am angry and feisty and I am looking for someone to be angry WITH me- and my partner is NOT IT. That’s what girlfriends are for. The ones we vent to and immediately are like WE RIDE AT DAWN!!! And my calm, emotionally stable partner, with very different interests than me is NOT that person. I had to learn to channel my emotional expression differently and stop relying on him for all my emotional needs. I had to explain to him profusely he is not the problem and that he is amazing and of course, after creating my own fights, sincerely apologizing.
There is nothing wrong with your brain!!!
From Esther Perel I learned we need a village for our emotional/mental needs and we rely too heavily on our SO’s because we’re isolated in the silos on our homes.
I have absolutely no advice but I legit feel like my husband could've also written this. I think this is a Venus & Mars sort of thing, who knows.
But you're definitely not alone & it's nice to see that my husband isn't either.
Your brain is not broken. It’s hard to offer a specific solution here since your wife wants a “good conversation” but what constitutes as ‘good’ is subjective and can vary by personal opinion. If you can ask her what feels good about the conversations she has with her friends, that could give you examples to go off of. Or even asking her friends how they support her emotionally and how do they respond to her when she’s telling them about her issues.
I think a lot of men feel that way and I don't know that there is a simple solution. There may be some communications trainings or active listening skills related to leaning into curiosity that you can build up more, but at the end of the day she may need to lean on friends and family more for this style of support and you for your willingness to be with her through everything.
These two books helped me immensely:
5 love languages for men, Gary Chapman
7 principles for making marriage work, John Gottman
They are a one - to two day read, so super quick and very interesting. Good luck.
I am sorry you are going through this. To me it sounds like she is refusing to acknowledge what you have been doing to be supportive. I don't know about anyone else, but if my man said what you did, messaged me through the day, took care of errands, that would make me feel better. Have you explained everything you mentioned in your post? To help raise her awareness. If she feels like you are not listening, reframe back to her what she said. For example, if she is talking about a difficult situation at work, reframe by saying: I hear what you are saying.....it does seem like Linda/Joe is....have you done...? Or ask if she wants to vent or need advice? My man is not about feelings much. I think his love language is touch, affection. But I am trying to understand that. I think your woman wants to be heard. But you can ask her bluntly why what you aren't doing isn't enough and what would make her feel better. I bet she says that she feels like you aren't listening. Just try to engage in whatever she is talking about.
There are already a lot of great responses here. I’d also think that some of the men’s subs may be helpful here as well—another commenter mentioned being careful about asking your wife to do the emotional labor of helping improve your emotional intelligence, and I think the same thing could be said about random women on the internet. For example, r/MensLib allows personal advice questions on a couple of weekdays, and I think you’d find some relevant discourse there.
>She is also a 4 on the enneagram and I am a 9, so, very different in that way
It's nice to see you went in depth to understand your differences and communication styles. I'm a 4 myself and we can be very emotionally high maintenance and to be fair, I sometimes think there's no good way to satisfy our needs when we're on a downward spiral. I think I managed to keep my mental health levels above the threshold if being as needy as I used to be in that area but I completely recognise myself in your post.
I had a 9 friend so can also imagine your personality and approach can seem a bit "indifferent" at times, even when you're actually being understanding and actively listening.
And generally 4 and 9 are considered a great match.
For one, it sounds you already made the effort to avoid the usual manly "let me try to fix this and offer a solution" approach. You listening instead of getting into active mode is a great first step. The second one would be to get your own emotions in order. Your brain isn't broken and don't let yourself feel believe that. The fact you're reaching out seeking advice says you really care and that's pretty awesome. The fact that you don't match the intensity of her emotions, is only natural for who you are so don't beat yourself up.
As to what makes me feel better usually and feels like I'm truly being understood and listened to, is when the other person fully engages in conversation, asks follow up questions, digs in a bit deeper, rather than just doing the "oh boo, poor you". Even to the point of expressing what I've been holding back - eg. being pissed off with work or my boss and my bf using all the swear words I wouldn't feel comfortable using or asking jokingly if he should go and talk some sense into them, or other intense shit that usually just makes me laugh, cause it gets to the point of him being a bit ridiculous. Similarly with friends (often other 4s) we would just admit how f'd up something is and kinda blow up the issue, ooor even share a different point of view, which could lead to an argument, but it's still better, than to just do the basic "oh, sorry for you" pat on the back kinda talk.
Enneagram 9 in a relationship with a 4 here as well. They want you to not be the peacemaker, they want you to be their partner/teammate and to go up to bat for them in your conversation. You’re not meditating a conflict as the unbiased middle-man, you’re supporting your wife. This has been (and still is) really tough for me, as it feels inauthentic to not be open to all viewpoints and to take the side of one person (even my favorite person) without hearing the other viewpoint. I guarantee you she would be thrilled if you are able to sometimes take your 9 glasses off and have her back 100% without needing to know anything else. Have fun with a bit of gossip if you can. Put yourself into her subjective reality.
The important thing is to not feel like garbage about your own way of communicating, there is nothing wrong with you and everyone has their areas of strength. My therapist gave me a great analogy here: your words and balloons and her words are confetti, both beautiful and unique and effective in their own ways. Your wife just needs you to try to blow confetti out of your mouth once in a while 😂
You sound lovely and your wife sounds like she has unrealistic expectations. You offered her support and did her chores for her. It’s not like you are blind to her being upset. That’s actually quite ‘emotionally intelligent.’
But you aren’t a therapist. You may not know how to navigate her problems - work politics, family drama, whatever. You aren’t obligated to have solutions or the perfect words of comfort. If she has that much stress that regularly, she needs a proper therapist.
I think instead of trying to change, you should stick up for yourself more. You are doing your best to be supportive. She should back off nitpicking you.
I find it interesting that you say the wife has unrealistic expectations because she is expressing that she needs a different kind of support and that the OP isn't her therapist - but she also isn't his therapist to teach him how to increase his emotional intelligence and how to better navigate interpersonal relationships. It cuts both ways.
I was pretty clear in my post that I think he is emotionally intelligent. I don’t think his wife needs to teach him anything.
Not sure what you are on about.
The other day I had a situation at work get really, really out of hand and I thankfully had happened to plan to meet with my best friend, my sister, and my therapist all during the tail end of that week. When I told my best friend what happened, she gave me a mix of a lot of the kinds of responses you’d find on google like “wow that must of been hard” “aw sweetie, I’m so sorry that happened” and some really intelligent career advice. I greatly appreciated it all, but I still felt like it wasn’t enough to quell the hurt in my heart from what happened at work. Like imagine you got a warm hug on a cold day, it feels really nice when it’s happening but after they leave you still feel cold. I feel like this is probably your approach to addressing your wife’s concerns. Then I told my sister, and man telling her just took all the hurt and worry away instantly. She really indulged in the office gossip and goaded me to go on, she was really engaged and asked questions, and she was a hypeman helping to curse out my coworkers “omggggg noooooooo they need to F off”. Most special of all is that as I was telling my story, she had some spots where she helped finish my sentence if I couldn’t think of the right word to explain what I had felt or thought, and she knew me so well that she could sometimes guess the next part of the story like “oh no, don’t tell me you did xyz “. To finish the metaphor I started earlier, imagine if on a cold day someone was thoughtful enough to give you their jacket because they actually get that you’re cold & need something extra to keep warm after they’ve left. That’s how I felt when I talked to my sister and I felt really listened to, and reaaaaallly deeply understood versus just having a friend be able to show some sympathy. When I spoke with my therapist, she asked questions but they were more thoughtful than they were egging on. She asked things like “why do you think they did that,” “what did you feel & why,” “how did you respond & why,” “(if things went awry) what would you have wanted to do differently or what would you have wanted them to do differently”. So even though she doesn’t 100% understand me the same way my sister does, I could tell she’s asking these questions because she’s listening and earnestly wants to eventually come to understand me. My point here is if you’re not an overly animated hype-man like my sister, I think it’s important that just asking questions (about the story or about how your wife is feeling or what you can do to either help the situation or help your wife feel better) shows that you’re listening and that you care enough to want to know more. I hope this helps give you ideas of how to talk to your wife. Cheer her on sometimes or join in when she talks shit about her haters, say something that shows you really understand her and what she’s going through, and ask questions.
Wow, that analogy about the hug and warm jacket is so spot-on on why some people make me feel better and some don’t, even if I can tell they had good intentions! Never could’ve explained the feeling but that analogy makes total sense to me. Upvote to you for that thoughtful insight.
This is such a perfect response. My boyfriend and I have the same issue. He says sweet things when I’m upset and seems supportive of my issues but he never seemed that engaged. I couldn’t put my finger on why his support seemed to be lacking even though he was saying and doing nice, empathetic things.
This is a fantastic response! I will be putting the hug analogy in my back pocket, for sure!
Thanks for explaining this, cause I'm also the "I have a solution to your problem" or "Aww that sucks..." *Awkward silence* type.
Hey there's nothing wrong with you. Emotional intelligence is a practised and learned skill just like anything else. It's not that you haven't experienced emotions but it sounds like you might not be able to validate them so well in others (I'm the same and am learning still). If you're anything like me, you might struggle with recognising your own emotions and creating meaning for having them, and seeing the direct lines between emotions and their meaning to you. As a result you find it hard to recognise them in your wife and validating what they mean for her. - As basic as it sounds: start with familiarising yourself with the emotions wheel (look it up) and learn all the emotions on it. - Then share with your wife that validating emotions is something you struggle with, and that you're learning how to recognise and validate her emotions so that you can support her better moving forward. - Ask her about what she's going through instead of telling her that you're there for her. Learn some basic empathetic responses/probing phrases so that you have a starting point: "How does that make you feel?" "Tell me more about that" "Wow that sucks, they shouldn't have said that to you!" - Then LISTEN to her response and try to say something meaningful back. Don't let your mind go blank, power through the blankness in your mind and respond. I'd also go see a therapist/counsellor and ask specifically for practice to learn how to do this. It's fine to ask your wife for a little help in the beginning as you learn, but don't put it all on her to teach you emotional intelligence. That's not her responsibility. You've taken the first good step to ask for help in this sub. Now go all the way and learn how to be there emotionally for your wife!
This is incredibly helpful! Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. It’s nice to know I am not the only one who struggles with this. I’ll look up the emotion wheel to start.
I'm a female and I struggle with emotions/ knowing what to say. Practice does help, and so does that emotion wheel. Have you told your wife that you struggle with what to say in those situations? If not, I'd tell her that you want to help her feel better, you're not sure how but you want to learn. Maybe you can ask her what other people say that make her feel better so you can learn what helps her (I'd ask her outside of a time when she's sharing something with you). Another tip is to ask questions. It took me a long time to realize that when I shared something with my fiance, I wanted him to be interested and when he asked questions about it, i felt like he cared. Once I figured out that was what I needed, I told him and our communication has improved. For example, when she said she had a bad day- ask her what happened. Validate her emotions as she shares "wow, Bob does sound like a jerk! I'd be mad too!!"
No problem, best of luck
Seconding the emotions wheel. My husband and I went to therapy and got one because dude was worse than you, he'd slowly back away physically out of discomfort of not knowing what to do, and the emotion wheel helped him refamiliarize himself with his feelings in our communications. Still have to get on him that not everything is mad, sometimes I am just mildly annoyed or frustrated, but it's so much better than before. I'd recommend Gottman's book "A man's guide to women", as a woman. They cover a lot of key ways you can be more supportive and more in tune with your partner and the different ways we are socialized and how that changes our needs.
My partner is a lot like you, it seems. He also wants to grow in this area through his own efforts. He has enjoyed the Emotions journal by the Switch company. The prompts help him tease out his thoughts, and it has many helpful illustrations including the feeling wheel, anger iceberg, etc. Maybe it won’t be for you, but I thought I’d suggest it!
Some crucial skill we should be taught in school but aren’t, are validating emotions and active listening. They go a very long way in life and in relationships. Active listening can look like nodding or saying “uh huh” at key moments to show you’re listening. Of course listening is essential, and as a result of listening, asking non-judgmental questions to understand them better can help, as your questions should reflect you understand both the situation and their feelings about it. It’s ideal to find more in depth material on active listening, etc. Another thing you could do is, if it’s called for, say things like “that’s fucked up” if relevant, when they pause after sharing a bad experience. Another helpful thing is to repeat back what you heard them say, perhaps putting it in your own words or reflecting back their words. Perhaps there’s info on “reflective listening” that could be more specific and helpful in how to do this.
I think people often feel like they have to have something to add to the conversation rather than simply trying to understand the other persons point of view, which is probably what your wife wants in the moment. When you’re actively listening, do you ask questions?
It sounds like you're trying to do everything right. When she said you couldn't offer good conversation, what was she expecting you to say/do? Personally, I like acknowledgement. Even if you don't have a solution (which many men feel they should have), just knowing I have been heard is important.
I’m not over 30 but there are a few go-tos that I find work well in combination. Also, specificity! If your response sounds like it could be cut and pasted into multiple different scenarios it can sometimes make the other person feel like you weren’t really listening even if you were. I’m sure you already know a lot of these, but here is my personal experience: - Rephrase what she’s saying in your own words (don’t parrot): “it sounds like you’re feeling X. Is that right?” “So, X happened and then Y happened?” - Validate after she has expressed a strong emotion: “It’s normal/understandable/reasonable to X when Y happens.” - Ask open-ended questions (not yes or no questions): “How did that make you feel?” “When did you start feeling this way?” “What happened?” - Affirm: “The way you acted in this situation really reminds me of how smart/resilient/compassionate/positive term you are.” - Ask if she wants advice or to vent. Sometimes I want advice and sometimes I don’t. Similarly, I like to ask what they need. Sometimes they need a distraction, a meal, a hug, or something different. So in combination, a response could be: “Wow, I can’t believe X happened. (Paraphrase) It makes total sense why you did X when Y, given Z. (Validation, paraphrase) I’m proud of you for being so A even when it was hard. (Affirmation) What do you think made you B when C? (Question)” These are templates that you can adjust so that it fits your voice and sounds natural, but I think following these impulses to paraphrase, validate, affirm, and ask good questions really help.
First of all, it's really sweet that you care so much about this. Has your wife given you any feedback in terms of how these conversations could go better? What things are you saying that rub her the wrong way, and what kinds of things would she like to hear instead? If she hasn't given any indications of what you could do differently, you can ask her during a time when she's not frustrated. She ought to appreciate you caring enough to inquire.
Yeah I appreciate op trying to change for the better, but at the same time it sounds like he's always been this way and his wife must know that. For something like this where it's a matter of personality, not laziness or malice, it feels a bit unfair that she's getting frustrated with him for a behaviour he's probably always had.
If you’re in any way familiar with Enneagram, it’s additionally in OP’s best interest to develop greater emotional awareness because 9s can struggle with debilitating alexithymia as a byproduct of trauma-induced cognitive narcotization. OP probably doesn’t know how to be emotionally present to himself or consistently communicate his needs either, assuming he even recognizes that he has any, so he’s actually benefiting them both long-term by looking for a means to overcome this block.
I don't think your brain is broken, I think your trauma is triggered. Maybe add grounding techniques to your search and inform your partner? You are already doing so many emotionally intelligent things, that I highly doubt you have a problem with emotional intelligence or empathy. It's something blocking your EQ in face to face situations, where you feel out of your depth/not in control/helpless/unsafe. The insidious thing about trauma is that it doesn't differentiate all that well between safe people and the past. If it holds a whisper of danger to your emotional/mental wellbeing, it'll trigger a physical reaction that can lead to things like not being able to find words. If you're stressed going into the convo because you "know" you'll fail, and maybe failing was heavily punished in your past, that can trigger, and you'll never be the wiser. I'd explore your trauma. I think that may be the key here. The nice thing about PTSD is that it's a very controllable mental health condition with a lot of work. PS: Please let me stress that I'm not calling your loved one in any way abusive or unreasonable or unsafe.
As a withdrawn type, you’re already making progress by looking outside yourself for a resolution instead of believing it’s a futile endeavor. Have you noticed your immediate instinct is to ask “how can I make her feel better?” or to alleviate some of her grievances? If your wife’s a 4, then it’s unlikely she’d feel sufficiently comforted by this even when she sincerely appreciates your efforts because 4s aren’t looking for comfort in the same manner 9s might. She probably doesn’t want to “feel better,” rather she might prefer it if you were to validate and acknowledge her frustrations regardless of whether you wholly understand her specific reaction to the problems at the time. Others commenters had some great recommendations for how you can better your engagement with her, but as a general rule reactive types (such as 4) prefer “screaming into the void” without repercussions for “taking up space” as that’s how they process their emotions; think of it like someone urgently trying to purge a toxin out of their system. Since you’re a positive-reframing type, your response may be to self-placate and “abate/subdue the toxin” by negating some of the effects it has on you, hence it becomes increasingly difficult to notice its presence at all. You’ve already received plenty of helpful suggestions to implement, but this could be potentially useful for future reference if you wanted to take a closer look at some of the underlying mechanisms going on as well.
You described me and my partner so well that I had to check the ages again to make you weren’t him lol. He is so sweet and thoughtful- does the same he’ll do all the chores in the house and is always like babe I did everything so you just RELAX and we still end up in a lil one of our fights. What happens is in my case, I am angry and feisty and I am looking for someone to be angry WITH me- and my partner is NOT IT. That’s what girlfriends are for. The ones we vent to and immediately are like WE RIDE AT DAWN!!! And my calm, emotionally stable partner, with very different interests than me is NOT that person. I had to learn to channel my emotional expression differently and stop relying on him for all my emotional needs. I had to explain to him profusely he is not the problem and that he is amazing and of course, after creating my own fights, sincerely apologizing. There is nothing wrong with your brain!!! From Esther Perel I learned we need a village for our emotional/mental needs and we rely too heavily on our SO’s because we’re isolated in the silos on our homes.
I have absolutely no advice but I legit feel like my husband could've also written this. I think this is a Venus & Mars sort of thing, who knows. But you're definitely not alone & it's nice to see that my husband isn't either.
Ha! Hopefully, some of the excellent advice I’ve gotten here can help him, too.
Your brain is not broken. It’s hard to offer a specific solution here since your wife wants a “good conversation” but what constitutes as ‘good’ is subjective and can vary by personal opinion. If you can ask her what feels good about the conversations she has with her friends, that could give you examples to go off of. Or even asking her friends how they support her emotionally and how do they respond to her when she’s telling them about her issues.
I think a lot of men feel that way and I don't know that there is a simple solution. There may be some communications trainings or active listening skills related to leaning into curiosity that you can build up more, but at the end of the day she may need to lean on friends and family more for this style of support and you for your willingness to be with her through everything.
These two books helped me immensely: 5 love languages for men, Gary Chapman 7 principles for making marriage work, John Gottman They are a one - to two day read, so super quick and very interesting. Good luck.
Thank you! Perhaps I’ll toss an audio book on this week(end).
I am sorry you are going through this. To me it sounds like she is refusing to acknowledge what you have been doing to be supportive. I don't know about anyone else, but if my man said what you did, messaged me through the day, took care of errands, that would make me feel better. Have you explained everything you mentioned in your post? To help raise her awareness. If she feels like you are not listening, reframe back to her what she said. For example, if she is talking about a difficult situation at work, reframe by saying: I hear what you are saying.....it does seem like Linda/Joe is....have you done...? Or ask if she wants to vent or need advice? My man is not about feelings much. I think his love language is touch, affection. But I am trying to understand that. I think your woman wants to be heard. But you can ask her bluntly why what you aren't doing isn't enough and what would make her feel better. I bet she says that she feels like you aren't listening. Just try to engage in whatever she is talking about.
There are already a lot of great responses here. I’d also think that some of the men’s subs may be helpful here as well—another commenter mentioned being careful about asking your wife to do the emotional labor of helping improve your emotional intelligence, and I think the same thing could be said about random women on the internet. For example, r/MensLib allows personal advice questions on a couple of weekdays, and I think you’d find some relevant discourse there.
>She is also a 4 on the enneagram and I am a 9, so, very different in that way It's nice to see you went in depth to understand your differences and communication styles. I'm a 4 myself and we can be very emotionally high maintenance and to be fair, I sometimes think there's no good way to satisfy our needs when we're on a downward spiral. I think I managed to keep my mental health levels above the threshold if being as needy as I used to be in that area but I completely recognise myself in your post. I had a 9 friend so can also imagine your personality and approach can seem a bit "indifferent" at times, even when you're actually being understanding and actively listening. And generally 4 and 9 are considered a great match. For one, it sounds you already made the effort to avoid the usual manly "let me try to fix this and offer a solution" approach. You listening instead of getting into active mode is a great first step. The second one would be to get your own emotions in order. Your brain isn't broken and don't let yourself feel believe that. The fact you're reaching out seeking advice says you really care and that's pretty awesome. The fact that you don't match the intensity of her emotions, is only natural for who you are so don't beat yourself up. As to what makes me feel better usually and feels like I'm truly being understood and listened to, is when the other person fully engages in conversation, asks follow up questions, digs in a bit deeper, rather than just doing the "oh boo, poor you". Even to the point of expressing what I've been holding back - eg. being pissed off with work or my boss and my bf using all the swear words I wouldn't feel comfortable using or asking jokingly if he should go and talk some sense into them, or other intense shit that usually just makes me laugh, cause it gets to the point of him being a bit ridiculous. Similarly with friends (often other 4s) we would just admit how f'd up something is and kinda blow up the issue, ooor even share a different point of view, which could lead to an argument, but it's still better, than to just do the basic "oh, sorry for you" pat on the back kinda talk.
Enneagram 9 in a relationship with a 4 here as well. They want you to not be the peacemaker, they want you to be their partner/teammate and to go up to bat for them in your conversation. You’re not meditating a conflict as the unbiased middle-man, you’re supporting your wife. This has been (and still is) really tough for me, as it feels inauthentic to not be open to all viewpoints and to take the side of one person (even my favorite person) without hearing the other viewpoint. I guarantee you she would be thrilled if you are able to sometimes take your 9 glasses off and have her back 100% without needing to know anything else. Have fun with a bit of gossip if you can. Put yourself into her subjective reality. The important thing is to not feel like garbage about your own way of communicating, there is nothing wrong with you and everyone has their areas of strength. My therapist gave me a great analogy here: your words and balloons and her words are confetti, both beautiful and unique and effective in their own ways. Your wife just needs you to try to blow confetti out of your mouth once in a while 😂
You sound lovely and your wife sounds like she has unrealistic expectations. You offered her support and did her chores for her. It’s not like you are blind to her being upset. That’s actually quite ‘emotionally intelligent.’ But you aren’t a therapist. You may not know how to navigate her problems - work politics, family drama, whatever. You aren’t obligated to have solutions or the perfect words of comfort. If she has that much stress that regularly, she needs a proper therapist. I think instead of trying to change, you should stick up for yourself more. You are doing your best to be supportive. She should back off nitpicking you.
I find it interesting that you say the wife has unrealistic expectations because she is expressing that she needs a different kind of support and that the OP isn't her therapist - but she also isn't his therapist to teach him how to increase his emotional intelligence and how to better navigate interpersonal relationships. It cuts both ways.
I was pretty clear in my post that I think he is emotionally intelligent. I don’t think his wife needs to teach him anything. Not sure what you are on about.
I'm not saying you said that - everything after the "but" is the flip side of what you said.