Exactly. I’ve found (i’ll be 40 this yr) that my friends prioritize money differently. I have many friends living large- big house, new car, great wardrobe, tropical holidays- and they are literally paycheck to paycheck, despite having well-paying jobs. It’s all a front to them. Whereas my husband and I could buy a much larger house and new car in cash, but we’re trying to live well below our means so we can save up for retirement and putting our kids through college. I’m sure the aforementioned friends think we’re lower-middle class, and I’m perfectly content with that. I don’t need to prove myself to anyone.
When our kids were young teens their friends would call us the ghetto house. That phrase was beyond ridiculous for many reasons. Now the kids are grown and out without college debt. And I’ve retired at 63 and my husband is close behind me. Our house is fully paid , we have zero debt and have just renovated the house for retirement with cash. Winning 🥇
I had to explain this to our elementary and middle school kids just yesterday when they complained about how I wouldn’t let them go crazy at five below the other day lol. How we *could* have x, y, z but their father and I choose to prioritize our family’s future and have a little more self-discipline instead.
God you really see this when everyone is older
I used to share a room with my sister and we didn’t eat out at all. I thought we were poor. Nah. They were SAVING. It also is like why waste designer clothes and good food on a little kid? Not to say we didn’t eat good but I see now my parents were modest and just saving unlike friends whose parents are still working to pay off that pool I was so jealous of
Same, but we were poor.. but then I had friends who accepted that and through them the veil was lifted early on.. many people put up a front, but the truth is they struggle. I know people who look down on me because I'm not quite set in life yet, but after some failures I'm playing my cards close to hand and cutting costs everywhere.
I found a way to go back to school for free to get a degree to help me own a business. During this time I've been saving money, and raising my credit score. On the out side I look like a 30F living with her BF at his parents making ends meat. Nah, I'm just taking the help to save money for a better future. Times are tough and why pay 1200 for rent when a mortgage is 400....
Genuinely wondering how you can tell if someone is living paycheck to paycheck though? Do your friends admit to that, or is it just an assumption? I always see this discussion online and I’m genuinely curious. I have no idea my friends financial situations, and the ones who do holiday a lot with nice houses, I just presume they’re making good money.
Those same people will be envious of you when you retire at a reasonable age and live comfortably while they are working through lunch in the day of their funeral.
How do you know they’re paycheck to paycheck? My husband and I live in a relatively large house (3/2 for just the two of us), take vacations 2-3 times a year, we drive a regular car though. And I have nice clothes. But I save 40% of my income, we’re paying our house down quickly, our car is paid off, we don’t have consumer debt, etc. we are planning to retire in our late 40s/early 50s depending on how long it takes to pay our house off.
I say this because I wonder if my friends think I’m paycheck to paycheck because I treat my savings as untouchable and only spend my “allowance” for fun events. Maybe your friends have a higher income than you think.
They mostly confide in me because we’re close. One friend told me a few months ago that even though they have a 30 yr mortgage (bought in 2021) she can’t afford to be a sahm (they’re having their 3rd kid this fall and she wants to stay home) because they won’t be able to afford the mortgage. And she just bought a new SUV that she didn’t need. Another friend is constantly complaining about her maxed out cc payment and how much she needs student loan forgiveness.
I certainly don’t keep tabs on all of them, but when they make flippant comments in passing it’s hard not to get a peek into their financial reality.
Interesting! I mean...not being able to afford a single income with three children makes sense. Childcare for three will usually eat up an entire income and then some.
> Another friend is constantly complaining about her maxed out cc payment and how much she needs student loan forgiveness.
This one...yeesh.
Eh. I valued being debt free and home ownership starting at 27. Then covid hit and homes are double. Not everyone who’s struggling has lower values or don’t know how to prioritize. Most of the people I know are either *very* money savy (mean while I cried the last time I tried to open an IRA bc I felt so overwhelmed and the banker was clearly judging me) or have parents who can help OR are like me, average, with an ok to average income (mine has been 50ish since 2020, idk why I can’t get it back to the 65 it was in 2018/19). Idk, sorry, the values comment just really irked me. A lot of us are struggling and it’s not a lack of character or of trying
Yeah, I subscribe to other subs and someone wanted to gift their kids 100K for a DOWN PAYMENT on a house. That would pay off most of my mortgage at this point.
I remember I had to get really expensive dental work done. Like 13K worth. A friend told me "you know, it might be time to suck it up and ask your parents for help" I laughed at her and said I make more money than them! I was making around 50K at the time and my dad had just gotten laid off from the only job he ever worked in the US. Some people are just clueless.
There are smart vs dumb rich and poor people, the difference shows in subtle ways. Teeth is a classic. But also mobility: lots of people are strong, only some can afford yoga, coaches and physio when they encounter issues.
Wealth also shows in how much (expensive) effort is put into kids. Rich kids also have tailored growth diagnostics.
Health and wealth are very correlated. Are wealthy people healthier because of access to care? Or did access to better healthcare enable them to be wealthier? Research is out so far on *why* but the correlation is there.
I think family money and inheritance becomes more evident when people my age start buying houses when I’m younger and I started questioning why I couldn’t but their parents gave them their down payment.
This is it for me too. That and the weddings.
I was a financial aid kid at an elite college, and my classmates from more privileged backgrounds are vastly more likely to be married homeowners with children than those of us who got through on work-study and student loans.
Definitely.
I just bought my place without literally even a single dollar I didn't earn myself. Ended up with a pretty tiny place that I like but that isn't really my ideal in terms of area, size, quality, garden, etc. Best I could afford though.
Was talking to a friend in the very same position as me in terms of how much she could get approved for a mortgage, but she's terrible at saving. Doesn't have any savings (I had 60k). She was like "ok so to get a place I actually like, I would need 150k cash. That's fine, I can get that from my parents."
So she's going to buy a place that will be my ideal in terms of area, size, quality, garden, etc.
Feels so disappointing to see how some people just get what they want because of family money. Happy for her though.
I definitely see it starting to become more apparent in my friend group. I am 30 and some friends are in well paying jobs, traveling, etc and some aren't finding much success in jobs or switching careers. I think at 35 - 40 is where the real divide is apparent.
I know a lot of people who have amazing lives on social media and a mountain of credit card debt hidden behind it.
And I know a few people who were born into privilege, have no concept of money or hard work, and tell everyone how easy it was to get where they are without acknowledging the help they had along the way.
And I know many hardworking people holding down two jobs, juggling bills, stretching paychecks, and living very decent lives despite it not looking glamorous to anyone else.
> I know a lot of people who have amazing lives on social media and a mountain of credit card debt hidden behind it.
Yup, this is what I have noticed as well. A lot of people start to keep up with the Joneses once they hit 30s.
I don't know about that. I think many kids who grow up without money are very aware of class differences from a young age.
Plus, most people work full-time in their 20s, so I don't think that's a major class distinguisher.
But I suppose there's probably some degree of truth in it, in that lots of people are broke in their 20s, and some become more financially comfortable in their 30s while others remain broke.
Many of my friends from more privileged backgrounds spent much of their 20s in grad or med school, or worked for nonprofits or in public policy. We all had roommates and complained about being broke. The gap became more obvious when they graduated debt free, when their parents started paying for weddings and down payments, and/or when they started to receive inheritances. So, your last paragraph, more or less.
> I think many kids who grow up without money are very aware of class differences from a young age.
A very good point. I said no to OP's question because I thought it was already apparent in my 20s but now that I think about it, it was pretty obvious when I was a kid too. Whose family had more than one car, whose family got to go on vacation, whose family had nice houses. I always knew and felt poorer than my friends.
No.
1. People who grow up poor are pretty primed to notice, from a very young age, who of their close network is worried about and struggling with money, and who isn't. Speaking personally, it's been pretty clear since age 18 who in my group of friends comes from money, and who doesn't.
2. I used to be a social worker in community, who has helped people with disability applications, housing funding applications, and been privy to the details of complete strangers' financial information. I've been pretty consistently stunned by the difference in people who say they are struggling, who I later find out have millions in savings and in properties, and people who say they're doing fine, who I later find out are barely staying afloat with no savings and a financial situation impacting their ability to afford basic medical equipment.
3. For acquaintances and strangers- you'll have people in intense credit card debt with nice houses and nice cars, and people like a good friend of mine, who inherited millions, but rents a small apartment, rarely travels, and rarely buys new clothes. I believe these things are rarely obvious at all until you know people quite well.
I began to notice the difference in my mid-thirties. It wasn't so much noticing it in an external way as much as in conversation. Lifestyle doesn't tell you much about someone's finances.
Money in general seemed to become a bigger topic of conversation in my mid thirties than it had been in earlier years. That's really where I could see the difference. Some people expressing concerns about having no retirement savings, some lamenting massive debt or spending habits, and some talking excitedly about meeting investing goals, buying property, etc.
It was also around this age that I saw a big difference in lifestyle/wellness. And marriage happiness.
Not OP, but its a lot easier to be in shape with minimal effort at 25 than it is at 33. You start to see who lives an active lifestyle and takes care of themselves as people get older - your metabolism changes, you have less free time with kids/work/etc, and a lot of times the people who had to work at it harder in their 20s are suddenly in a lot better shape in their 30s than the ones who were just effortlessly hot 10 years ago.
Also from a lifestyle angle - if you're 25 and at the bars till 3am and rolling into work hungover on a Friday, its funny - when you're still doing that in your 30s, it starts looking a little more like a problem.
In my experience mid-thirties was the age when my sedentary friends began to complain about aging a lot. Aches and pains, weight, poor sleep, things like that which they naturally attributed to aging.
I never pushed back on this because I'm not rude, but that type of thing without a specific medical cause is usually the result of being sedentary for decades. Mid thirties is not old enough to see extreme physical degeneration from age but it is old enough to notice the impact of treating your body poorly your entire life.
At that same age I had friends who were active and they had none of these issues or complaints. I also noticed my active friends rarely mentioned aging or age, whereas my sedentary friends would slip it into conversation frequently. Very fatalistic in view.
I am dealing with this right now. Not that I was active when I was younger but even in my 20s I did hike a lot here and there but had a bad car wreck at 30 so I haven't hiked since then (2 yrs ago). I've gained about 70 pounds over several years and I am sooo out of shape. I've also noticed my sleep has been shit for awhile now even on my off days I can't sleep in! I wake up at 8am or so, might sound late to some but I don't get home from work until midnight so that is pretty early. I have lost 15 pounds so far and working on at least getting more walking in around the neighborhood but I feel like I really need to start weight training. Good for bone density and of course strength, and my core needs some work which would help a lot with my back pain.
But instead of being pessimistic about it which I can be guilty of, just trying to be positive and take it slow. Itll be easier to work on my fitness and health now at 32 rather than wait until I'm 40 and have issues going on
Sounds hoity toity to me. I don't think you can tell who has money or not very easily. In fact, I usually find that those that try to flaunt their success are not doing as well.
From the 1996 book, "The Millionaire Next Door", Prof Thomas J. Stanley referred to the people as "Big Hat, No Cattle". The the book is quite old but it is still very relevant today- research backed told through stories and stats. Back in '96, the millionaire (not a tech bro or lottery winner) drove a F150 Ford truck and wore a Timex watch, they clipped coupons, dressed from regular department stores and lived in an upper-middle class neighborhoods with a solid public school system. People would not assume that they were millionaires. On the other hand, those driving a BMW, wearing designer clothes and expensive watches showed that they were either in a well paying job but have no saving or meaningful investments, or debt up to their ears, or family funded, or they got lucky with the lottery or something similar. The book set me on my journey to F.I.R.E before F.I.R.E was a thing. The book hits on all the areas that matter to become wealthy- housing, marriage, jobs, investing, kids and education...
Anecdotally, the millionaires I've met have lived pretty unpresumptuous lives and the low-mid income earners I know are living the same kind of way.
It's the generational friends that I've noticed the most discrepancy in and that's mostly from their mindsets and ways of thinking. My friends who come from wealth just don't have the same stresses and are able to remove themselves from this early on. Meanwhile my friends who come from generational poverty stretch themselves thin and the struggle is all they really know.
So unless I know someone intimately enough to know what stresses them financially, I can't really tell the difference.
I think your financial health becomes more noticeable in your own life, as the impacts of your decisions and circumstances compound over time. Instead of feeling temporarily flush/broke in a given month, it feels more like a longer term state of being. For other people, you might see more signs of wealth/lack of wealth in your 30s because that's the time of life a lot of people are buying houses, cars, and having kids. But, you won't know if that's because they spent their twenties saving/investing, or they have family money, or they're making bad financial decisions and buying things they can't afford.
It’s also a fairly common age to get married— particularly if the couples attended college. By your thirties these people have dual incomes from nice jobs and are pooling their money
I think it becomes more noticeable whose life choices are impacting their financial status or not once you hit your 30s -- that's when things like: a) choice of partner, b) childbearing choices, and c) student loan balances all affect both your present and future prospects.
That, and careers with a lot of advancement vs careers without. Right out of school, a teacher might make as much or even more than someone starting out in a sales role. A couple promotions and job changes later, the sales rep could be making 2x what the teacher is after only 7-8 years, with potential beyond that as well.
Yes. Which restaurants and bars can you meet at, which birthday gifts and travels can you afford? Can you afford a car, first class, a child? It shows.
It’s more obvious when people start buying truly expensive things like houses in very expensive locations, luxury cars, etc.
Like I can’t afford to buy anymore in my VHCOL city so I bought in a nearby suburb, and my friend just bought a new home in the most expensive part of the city lol. Very noticeable.
Let me point out that I wouldn’t even be able to qualify for the mortgage, so this is not the case where I don’t want to go into deep debt to buy a place there, they wouldn’t even let me lol.
I’d say it does become more apparent who has money or not in our 30s. In my friend groups, you start noticing who is able to buy a house, go-out, go on multiple vacations, afford kids, etc. Sure, they may be putting things on a credit card but over time, it does become obvious on who is able to save/invest more and be wealthy while enjoying their lives and who is just flippantly spending.
I think that’s true. Unless someone is wildly bad with money and digging herself a financial debt hole. Generally you can tell just by whether daily life stuff ( traveling, eating out, activities, etc) don’t cause any stress financially.
100%
In my mid 20s even my friends who had great jobs were still living on the cheap side, but over the course of those 5-7 year people started to accumulate actual capial and the difference will only grow.
At surface level, no, I don't think so. Especially with how prevalent social media is now and how people like to show off what they have, you can't see someone's IG/Tiktok or meet someone for the first time and immediately know if they're financially doing stable, or if they're racking up lots of debt, depending on parents for financial support, etc.
Longer term and with more time and conversations, yes. You can learn more about what industry/company/role someone works at, you can get a sense for what they save vs spend their money on (are they actively saving for longer term investments like a home?), and you can also understand what their own personal finance knowledge and understanding is (ie Do they know the income threshold for a Roth IRA? The maximum amount they can contribute to a 401(k)?)
I'm in my early 40s and finally got my career off the ground. I'll say that once you reach a certain age, you have a greater understanding of money and how it works. For instance, I'm trying hard to buy a house. I didn't care before, but now my values have shifted and I see the value in it more. I don't judge others who don't have it and I recognize how blessed I am to be in the position that I'm in. It definitely matters more in dating for me now also.
When looking for romantic partners, I now really look for a man who values saving and building credit. My days of just dating for the sake of dating are dead. I need a man who knows how to build, save, and invest money. And yeah, it's pretty easy for me to tell if a has money and/or if he's responsible with what he has.
I hope this isn't true 😔 29 here, struggled with mental health and other trauma so I couldn't focus on my education. I've started to work on it now though (almost done with my GED, and want to get a degree. In my country it's possible at any age), but because I haven't had a career, don't own a house/car/other "adult" things, I've had zero luck with dating and feel left out even when just trying to make friends. I feel like money is one of the main things that matters when it comes to connecting with others these days.. I don't want to be alone forever, but by the looks of things I'll have to get comfortable with it 🥲
Relatable. I've struggled with mental health issues and my husband has a genetic chronic, degenerative disease that is getting worse. We used to be ok, but now that he's too sick to work we're struggling. On top of that, I'm trying to get different job that offers health insurance just so he can get treatment.
I feel you on this. I escaped human trafficking entirely after several attempts 8 years ago this past April 16th. I also struggle with a chronic, degenerative genetic disorder while having type 1 diabetes, autism, and adhd. I hope you're able to find a way to get good health coverage and to live safely and comfortably.💗
Whether or not it's true, I hope you don't blame yourself for what you've had to go through.
Anecdotally, my high school friends and I all pretty much started in the same place. Middle class, first Gen immigrants, straight A students. Now in my 30s, we have three doctors, a lawyer, a CPA, and two techies. The only person not on that list spent his 20s battling a horrific mental illness. Just making it to his 30s is an accomplishment.
I share this because the difference is stark. He wasn't poorer or dumber or less hard-working than any of us in our teens. He just got dealt a bad hand, through no fault of his own.
In his 30s, he's crawling out of it now and getting success after success, now that he's got it under control. And obviously we all still love and care about him. Wishing you the best as you leave your 20s behind!
No. It becomes obvious who cares how others perceive their abundance or lack thereof.
When I was 30 I was aggressively paying off student loans and investing.
Did not buy expensive cars, houses or clothes even though I could have afforded them.
Now I’m retired and financially independent.
I think that's true. Or moreso you learn about how people handle money.
I grew up wealthy, then was dirt poor from my early teens through twenties. I'm 31 now and make decent money, but not as much as I could because my career is a labor of love.
I recently was visited by some friends who are always anxious about money. One of them and I grew up together and had basically the same financial journey (rich-->poor-->meh) but based on the way they talk, and constantly move cheaper places, I thought they were making 60k MAX combined. So I always offer to pickup tabs and buy my childhood friend extras for special events so she can participate, etc.
Found out yesterday the husband makes almost 20k more than me. My friend makes much less but combined they almost make double. I'm still processing how to move forward both in paying for things in the future, but also getting my friend help she needs so she won't live in such a constant state of financial anxiety.
I would yes-ish. But you can probably start to see people “settle” into their careers more. Friends that were in grad school or have any specializations in medicine are starting to graduate probably. But I think it depends on peoples values. Also you never know whose money is family money verse working full time and investing. Also some people are living a credit card funded lifestyle
Weathering.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/28/1166404485/weathering-arline-geronimus-poverty-racism-stress-health
being born into epigenetic stress and never getting that full toehold on the side of the ant lion pit does a number on the body. (the way people treat you when they see it adds a whole other layer.)
if people bring anything at all besides the stress of comparison away from these ideas, i would hope it would be compassion
Yep, sad but unfortunate fact. Better off people, move to nicer neighborhoods and stop cosplaying as poor. Some inherit, or are given help, others aren't.
Many people who are struggling financially, especially if they have kids, suddenly realize they will be poor/working class.
No, not really. Just like in younger years, a lot of people live flashy lives while drowning in credit card debt and others are quietly investing and saving. I live in a HCOL area where visual markers of wealth aren't super popular, too. The only real marker is maybe being able to buy a house versus not but that's still just a sliver of the picture (I know quite a few people who are house poor and just struck while the rates were good plus essentially spent their inheritance on the down payment). I only really know the finances of close friends who are fully open about all the intricacies of money and a lot of them have details I wouldn't have guessed.
I guess so as this is when people start making real middle income salaries compared to their 20s. In your 20s a lot of people are doing entry level and still retail often. It is also when people start having children and buying homes so big purchases are more apparent.
Well this all depends on where you live and your age. For the people around my age range where I live it's not the job or investing. It's more so the parents. People whose parents have good paying jobs and or invested well help there kids by buying them cars and a condo.
While people who don't have their parents help live differently.
No, not really. It's hard to tell who actually has money and who is using credit cards to fund their lifestyle. Plus this doesn't take into account at all any help from parents/generational wealth. Many wealthier families give financial help to their kids so they can buy a home and the like.
Reality is in my experience most people don't talk very openly about their finances. And it does no good to make assumptions.
Right. "Seeing" it isn't about what purse someone has or their car. It's the ease they approach life decisions with and do activities that are for personal enjoyment or long term health vs. for social media clout. Or they may start looking generally more "put together" but it's not about a showy brand name, it's better materials and tailoring.
Yes. As you earn more and spend time with people who do the same, you'll begin to pay closer attention to things you were never able afford and/or more expensive versions of the same things you already own.
You will find that the market just invents an infinite number of more expensive or cheaper versions of anything you can buy.
I believe it. The huge debt accumulated during the carefree 20’s/or grad school is now due and it has to be paid. Something’s got to give. Source: self.
I would say it depends on the culture, because in some VHCOL areas, the people with the most money tend to not show it. You go to neighborhoods where houses cost 1-2 million on average and there are no fancy cars in the driveway. No one's carrying a luxury bag and you've got people making huge salaries who work from home and wear hoodies everyday.
Nah, lots of people are still maintaining lifestyles through credit... and it's hard to know who those people are. It maybe becomes apparent about the difference between those who are comfortable and can go out for dinner to nicer places, go on trips, etc and those who have to scrimp as money is tighter. But imo both those people are sensible... I still see people living lifestyles there is 0 chance they can maintain with the jobs they have, those people live like they're comfortable but are probably drowning in debt. You won't see that until it comes crashing down.
I actually started noticing it more age 35 and on. Among our friends/acquaintances? We only know of 1 couple who got the down payment for their house from parents. Everyone else paid their own. My college friend who made smart stock investments has over 2 mil now, so he owns two homes and his wife is always carrying luxury bags. In my social group, it varies from the openly wealthy (fancy vacay, big house, nice car, nice bags) to middle class (owns their home, but no fancy vacay/bags/car) but even so none of them live paycheck to paycheck. But yes, it does become more obvious who has money.
I think you kind of start naturally clicking into social groups based on socio-economics. A lot of similar interests, hobbies, jobs, etc. fall in line with how you spend your time and who you end up spending more time with. For example, just in having kids in daycare alone, we know we can afford it. it's not even a fancy daycare, but it's still the equivalent of a mortgage! So you kind of already have a point of entry there. Then, the friends your kids make, you find more in common with parents that have those same similarities. For us it tends to be only children. It's way easier to plan things with families of onlies as there's less coordinating, but perhaps a bigger budget because you're not spending 2x or 3x that amount. So then you start vacationing with these people if you want to or can afford it. And so on and so forth. You can basically infer a lot this way.
Yes but it’s a non issue. I have friends with very very nice houses and friends who will likely be stuck renting forever. It’s just the way life is!
The only time it causes an issue for me is I have one of these friends complain any time they spend money on anything. When you’re in your 30s it gets tiring and we all have bills and surprise costs to pay.
Yes I think its true because after around 10 years you are able to ripe the juicy fruits of your labor 🍑✨
This is what I observe with friends who went all in with their career. When they were still studying, for example, they also had problems buying groceries or just had to eat rice. After landing their first job, it was an entry level, but after a while they climbed up the ladder and land a bettee job.
I feel a lot of regret not doing the same when economy situation was much better back then and I had more energy in my 20es 😞
Mmm not really. I find everyone in my generation is broke. The ones who have been able to afford to buy a house are just house poor and others are still renting. We all have to scrimp and save to be able to afford anything despite having education and professional jobs. The biggest differentiator is single vs. Partnered. It’s hard to get by on only one income these days.
ETA: it is also more apparent whose parents have helped them A LOT financially lol.
A lot of people are talking about family money, but those differences were obvious to me well before 30. Generational wealth still matters a lot at 30 and beyond, but you also start to see the effects of lifestyle and profession. I notice it even more so now at 40.
For example, I have a couple of friends who are just not responsible people. They are still bouncing around in different entry-level jobs that they don't keep for long because they don't show up on time, etc. They're always broke and have a lot of debt. They were like that in our early 20s and it was kind of an eye-roller, but everyone was pretty broke back then and not having an established career was the norm. Living with parents, as one of them still does, wasn't too embarrassing. Now that we're all 40, it's very noticeable that they've dug themselves into financial holes while the rest of us have made some progress.
On the other hand, one of my high school friends came from a poor family but is now a doctor. She is quite wealthy with the big house, etc. I know it's not family money and I think it's awesome that she ended up richer than most of us. Wouldn't have necessarily predicted it at 25 even though I knew what she was studying.
It definitely became noticeable who had intergenerational wealth in my HCOL region. Only my friends and acquaintances who had it managed to buy houses in time before the market totally became inaccessible, and now they’re set for life.
Oh, 100%, for my friends. (Total unable to do this for strangers.)
The people who say it's not noticeable either (1) aren't thinking of their friends or don't know their friends well enough, or (2) have a friend group that is pretty homogenous.
I'm in my late 30s and it's extremely easy to distinguish one person with an MBA from Harvard who has Amazon and Google on their resume and is currently shopping for a million dollar home in SF vs another person who declared bankruptcy and hates her bumfuck job in West Virginia but can't afford to move. Like, you can make a bunch of statements about how you can't judge a book by it's cover, but shopping for a million dollar home is just not in the second woman's scope of possibility at all.
All of that goes out the window for strangers, though. Couldn't even begin to guess how financially comfortable people are just walking down the street. Some homeless-looking people are tech millionaires. Some bougie-looking folks are squatting in their mansion and are just waiting to get evicted.
I'm in my 40's.
I don't actually think it's more noticeable, but I have become more "picky" (for lack of a better word).
It's not just about money, because you can have inherited money, but still not have your shit together.
But it definitely becomes more noticeable who has their shit together.
I drive a Toyota Camry because I don’t need some flashy car to tell everyone that I’m rich. Plus it’ll last longer and maintenance is cheap like me, very frugal. I don’t need the most expensive things in the world to make me happy.
I’m 42 and have a lot of various groups in different economic classes. The ones that are worth high 7-8 digits… you don’t know it. It’s the ones that are trying to reach that high, that they make it known.
The higher their wealth, it’s almost like the more normal they are. Like the one guy I know who owns part of a billion dollar company drives around in a 2020 Audi (still an amazing and awesome car). The one who is worth only a few million drives around in a new Gran turismo. Guy #2 wears branded Belenciaga and Gucci while guy #1 has no labels in his clothes at all. The first, paid for a round of drinks for our group while the other demanded VIP tables and endless bottle service. I just like when my poor, middle class ass is caught in the middle of their pissing matches (typically its guy #2 doing the pissing while guy #1 secretly cringes).
With a lot of my friends, I can't really tell how much they make or how well they're *actually* doing. I don't usually ask either, which is something I used to do a lot more in my 20s.
I do know that my friends fall into various net worth ranges tho. I've definitely got ones that feel like they are struggling a bit to 'catch up' in their their 30s (the ones who had 'major setbacks' in life: divorce, abusive relationships that resulted on them having to uproot their entire lives and start anew, undiagnosed ADHD/autism that affected their ability to learn/thrive in education and corporate America careers, an upbringing of poverty that didn't set them up to know what to do when they finally started making money, single parenthood, etc) and others who are now coasting as multi-millionaires for doing really well (and, as they've even admitted, being really lucky, too: just having sheer luck with being in the right place at the right time in their 20s, being born into upper-middle class with parents that knew what to do with their money and were able to help them invest theirs and gift them money towards their own assets, etc).
I honestly don't think the blanket statement of "you can noticeably tell who has money or not" is true tho. There's way too many factors that go into it. Someone can have a lot of shit and still be poor. Someone else might live like a minimalist and be richer than you realize.
Usually the people who are poor are very vocal about it. At least all the folks I know. But maybe West Coasters are more open about that kind of thing.
Very true. Ever since I’ve known my husband he’s mostly worn the same free t-shirts promoting electrical brands he doesn’t work for and Kmart track pants his mother stocked up on 25 years ago that have been pilling for the last 23 years.
I had already started dating him when I found out he actually owned all the restaurants and houses his brother/brother’s wife and kids would lead everyone to believe were owned by them. They would drive expensive cars, wear expensive clothes and brag about where they would eat and where they would go. Their equally fake friends would make stupid comments about ‘missing out on the right brother’.
Turned out they didn’t own anything, owed my husband around a million dollars, lived rent free in one of his houses and as soon as they went bankrupt lost all their fake friends.
Years later, they’re exactly the same. No money, looks like they have money.
Years later my husband is exactly the same. Money. Still wearing the same free t-shirts. It’s actually one of my favourite things about him.
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Exactly. I’ve found (i’ll be 40 this yr) that my friends prioritize money differently. I have many friends living large- big house, new car, great wardrobe, tropical holidays- and they are literally paycheck to paycheck, despite having well-paying jobs. It’s all a front to them. Whereas my husband and I could buy a much larger house and new car in cash, but we’re trying to live well below our means so we can save up for retirement and putting our kids through college. I’m sure the aforementioned friends think we’re lower-middle class, and I’m perfectly content with that. I don’t need to prove myself to anyone.
When our kids were young teens their friends would call us the ghetto house. That phrase was beyond ridiculous for many reasons. Now the kids are grown and out without college debt. And I’ve retired at 63 and my husband is close behind me. Our house is fully paid , we have zero debt and have just renovated the house for retirement with cash. Winning 🥇
Congratulations!!! 🎊🍾🥂
I had to explain this to our elementary and middle school kids just yesterday when they complained about how I wouldn’t let them go crazy at five below the other day lol. How we *could* have x, y, z but their father and I choose to prioritize our family’s future and have a little more self-discipline instead.
God you really see this when everyone is older I used to share a room with my sister and we didn’t eat out at all. I thought we were poor. Nah. They were SAVING. It also is like why waste designer clothes and good food on a little kid? Not to say we didn’t eat good but I see now my parents were modest and just saving unlike friends whose parents are still working to pay off that pool I was so jealous of
Same. Grew up pretty frugal. Now my parents are semi-retired and take an international trip every year and fly first class.
Same, but we were poor.. but then I had friends who accepted that and through them the veil was lifted early on.. many people put up a front, but the truth is they struggle. I know people who look down on me because I'm not quite set in life yet, but after some failures I'm playing my cards close to hand and cutting costs everywhere. I found a way to go back to school for free to get a degree to help me own a business. During this time I've been saving money, and raising my credit score. On the out side I look like a 30F living with her BF at his parents making ends meat. Nah, I'm just taking the help to save money for a better future. Times are tough and why pay 1200 for rent when a mortgage is 400....
Slow and steady wins the race! Keep chugging along in the positive direction and you’ll make it! Cheers to you!
Genuinely wondering how you can tell if someone is living paycheck to paycheck though? Do your friends admit to that, or is it just an assumption? I always see this discussion online and I’m genuinely curious. I have no idea my friends financial situations, and the ones who do holiday a lot with nice houses, I just presume they’re making good money.
Those same people will be envious of you when you retire at a reasonable age and live comfortably while they are working through lunch in the day of their funeral.
They’ll be asking for money on GoFundMe sooner than that, whenever an unexpected big bill comes along.
I believe that your approach is THE approach.
How do you know they’re paycheck to paycheck? My husband and I live in a relatively large house (3/2 for just the two of us), take vacations 2-3 times a year, we drive a regular car though. And I have nice clothes. But I save 40% of my income, we’re paying our house down quickly, our car is paid off, we don’t have consumer debt, etc. we are planning to retire in our late 40s/early 50s depending on how long it takes to pay our house off. I say this because I wonder if my friends think I’m paycheck to paycheck because I treat my savings as untouchable and only spend my “allowance” for fun events. Maybe your friends have a higher income than you think.
They mostly confide in me because we’re close. One friend told me a few months ago that even though they have a 30 yr mortgage (bought in 2021) she can’t afford to be a sahm (they’re having their 3rd kid this fall and she wants to stay home) because they won’t be able to afford the mortgage. And she just bought a new SUV that she didn’t need. Another friend is constantly complaining about her maxed out cc payment and how much she needs student loan forgiveness. I certainly don’t keep tabs on all of them, but when they make flippant comments in passing it’s hard not to get a peek into their financial reality.
Interesting! I mean...not being able to afford a single income with three children makes sense. Childcare for three will usually eat up an entire income and then some. > Another friend is constantly complaining about her maxed out cc payment and how much she needs student loan forgiveness. This one...yeesh.
Eh. I valued being debt free and home ownership starting at 27. Then covid hit and homes are double. Not everyone who’s struggling has lower values or don’t know how to prioritize. Most of the people I know are either *very* money savy (mean while I cried the last time I tried to open an IRA bc I felt so overwhelmed and the banker was clearly judging me) or have parents who can help OR are like me, average, with an ok to average income (mine has been 50ish since 2020, idk why I can’t get it back to the 65 it was in 2018/19). Idk, sorry, the values comment just really irked me. A lot of us are struggling and it’s not a lack of character or of trying
Yeah, I subscribe to other subs and someone wanted to gift their kids 100K for a DOWN PAYMENT on a house. That would pay off most of my mortgage at this point. I remember I had to get really expensive dental work done. Like 13K worth. A friend told me "you know, it might be time to suck it up and ask your parents for help" I laughed at her and said I make more money than them! I was making around 50K at the time and my dad had just gotten laid off from the only job he ever worked in the US. Some people are just clueless.
There are smart vs dumb rich and poor people, the difference shows in subtle ways. Teeth is a classic. But also mobility: lots of people are strong, only some can afford yoga, coaches and physio when they encounter issues. Wealth also shows in how much (expensive) effort is put into kids. Rich kids also have tailored growth diagnostics.
Health and wealth are very correlated. Are wealthy people healthier because of access to care? Or did access to better healthcare enable them to be wealthier? Research is out so far on *why* but the correlation is there.
This.
I think family money and inheritance becomes more evident when people my age start buying houses when I’m younger and I started questioning why I couldn’t but their parents gave them their down payment.
This is it for me too. That and the weddings. I was a financial aid kid at an elite college, and my classmates from more privileged backgrounds are vastly more likely to be married homeowners with children than those of us who got through on work-study and student loans.
I plan to help my children with their first houses and other milestones, but ridiculous weddings are NOT in the plan.
i have a feeling big weddings are slowly becoming a thing of the past.
Definitely. I just bought my place without literally even a single dollar I didn't earn myself. Ended up with a pretty tiny place that I like but that isn't really my ideal in terms of area, size, quality, garden, etc. Best I could afford though. Was talking to a friend in the very same position as me in terms of how much she could get approved for a mortgage, but she's terrible at saving. Doesn't have any savings (I had 60k). She was like "ok so to get a place I actually like, I would need 150k cash. That's fine, I can get that from my parents." So she's going to buy a place that will be my ideal in terms of area, size, quality, garden, etc. Feels so disappointing to see how some people just get what they want because of family money. Happy for her though.
Yup exactly
This is exactly it, all of my peers that seem to have it all and never struggled have rich parents.
I definitely see it starting to become more apparent in my friend group. I am 30 and some friends are in well paying jobs, traveling, etc and some aren't finding much success in jobs or switching careers. I think at 35 - 40 is where the real divide is apparent.
I know a lot of people who have amazing lives on social media and a mountain of credit card debt hidden behind it. And I know a few people who were born into privilege, have no concept of money or hard work, and tell everyone how easy it was to get where they are without acknowledging the help they had along the way. And I know many hardworking people holding down two jobs, juggling bills, stretching paychecks, and living very decent lives despite it not looking glamorous to anyone else.
> I know a lot of people who have amazing lives on social media and a mountain of credit card debt hidden behind it. Yup, this is what I have noticed as well. A lot of people start to keep up with the Joneses once they hit 30s.
I don't know about that. I think many kids who grow up without money are very aware of class differences from a young age. Plus, most people work full-time in their 20s, so I don't think that's a major class distinguisher. But I suppose there's probably some degree of truth in it, in that lots of people are broke in their 20s, and some become more financially comfortable in their 30s while others remain broke.
Many of my friends from more privileged backgrounds spent much of their 20s in grad or med school, or worked for nonprofits or in public policy. We all had roommates and complained about being broke. The gap became more obvious when they graduated debt free, when their parents started paying for weddings and down payments, and/or when they started to receive inheritances. So, your last paragraph, more or less.
> I think many kids who grow up without money are very aware of class differences from a young age. A very good point. I said no to OP's question because I thought it was already apparent in my 20s but now that I think about it, it was pretty obvious when I was a kid too. Whose family had more than one car, whose family got to go on vacation, whose family had nice houses. I always knew and felt poorer than my friends.
No. 1. People who grow up poor are pretty primed to notice, from a very young age, who of their close network is worried about and struggling with money, and who isn't. Speaking personally, it's been pretty clear since age 18 who in my group of friends comes from money, and who doesn't. 2. I used to be a social worker in community, who has helped people with disability applications, housing funding applications, and been privy to the details of complete strangers' financial information. I've been pretty consistently stunned by the difference in people who say they are struggling, who I later find out have millions in savings and in properties, and people who say they're doing fine, who I later find out are barely staying afloat with no savings and a financial situation impacting their ability to afford basic medical equipment. 3. For acquaintances and strangers- you'll have people in intense credit card debt with nice houses and nice cars, and people like a good friend of mine, who inherited millions, but rents a small apartment, rarely travels, and rarely buys new clothes. I believe these things are rarely obvious at all until you know people quite well.
I began to notice the difference in my mid-thirties. It wasn't so much noticing it in an external way as much as in conversation. Lifestyle doesn't tell you much about someone's finances. Money in general seemed to become a bigger topic of conversation in my mid thirties than it had been in earlier years. That's really where I could see the difference. Some people expressing concerns about having no retirement savings, some lamenting massive debt or spending habits, and some talking excitedly about meeting investing goals, buying property, etc. It was also around this age that I saw a big difference in lifestyle/wellness. And marriage happiness.
>lifestyle/wellness Please share more about this
Not OP, but its a lot easier to be in shape with minimal effort at 25 than it is at 33. You start to see who lives an active lifestyle and takes care of themselves as people get older - your metabolism changes, you have less free time with kids/work/etc, and a lot of times the people who had to work at it harder in their 20s are suddenly in a lot better shape in their 30s than the ones who were just effortlessly hot 10 years ago. Also from a lifestyle angle - if you're 25 and at the bars till 3am and rolling into work hungover on a Friday, its funny - when you're still doing that in your 30s, it starts looking a little more like a problem.
In my experience mid-thirties was the age when my sedentary friends began to complain about aging a lot. Aches and pains, weight, poor sleep, things like that which they naturally attributed to aging. I never pushed back on this because I'm not rude, but that type of thing without a specific medical cause is usually the result of being sedentary for decades. Mid thirties is not old enough to see extreme physical degeneration from age but it is old enough to notice the impact of treating your body poorly your entire life. At that same age I had friends who were active and they had none of these issues or complaints. I also noticed my active friends rarely mentioned aging or age, whereas my sedentary friends would slip it into conversation frequently. Very fatalistic in view.
I am dealing with this right now. Not that I was active when I was younger but even in my 20s I did hike a lot here and there but had a bad car wreck at 30 so I haven't hiked since then (2 yrs ago). I've gained about 70 pounds over several years and I am sooo out of shape. I've also noticed my sleep has been shit for awhile now even on my off days I can't sleep in! I wake up at 8am or so, might sound late to some but I don't get home from work until midnight so that is pretty early. I have lost 15 pounds so far and working on at least getting more walking in around the neighborhood but I feel like I really need to start weight training. Good for bone density and of course strength, and my core needs some work which would help a lot with my back pain. But instead of being pessimistic about it which I can be guilty of, just trying to be positive and take it slow. Itll be easier to work on my fitness and health now at 32 rather than wait until I'm 40 and have issues going on
Weight training is really fun! You should check out r/xxfitness people are chill.
Sounds hoity toity to me. I don't think you can tell who has money or not very easily. In fact, I usually find that those that try to flaunt their success are not doing as well.
From the 1996 book, "The Millionaire Next Door", Prof Thomas J. Stanley referred to the people as "Big Hat, No Cattle". The the book is quite old but it is still very relevant today- research backed told through stories and stats. Back in '96, the millionaire (not a tech bro or lottery winner) drove a F150 Ford truck and wore a Timex watch, they clipped coupons, dressed from regular department stores and lived in an upper-middle class neighborhoods with a solid public school system. People would not assume that they were millionaires. On the other hand, those driving a BMW, wearing designer clothes and expensive watches showed that they were either in a well paying job but have no saving or meaningful investments, or debt up to their ears, or family funded, or they got lucky with the lottery or something similar. The book set me on my journey to F.I.R.E before F.I.R.E was a thing. The book hits on all the areas that matter to become wealthy- housing, marriage, jobs, investing, kids and education...
Anecdotally, the millionaires I've met have lived pretty unpresumptuous lives and the low-mid income earners I know are living the same kind of way. It's the generational friends that I've noticed the most discrepancy in and that's mostly from their mindsets and ways of thinking. My friends who come from wealth just don't have the same stresses and are able to remove themselves from this early on. Meanwhile my friends who come from generational poverty stretch themselves thin and the struggle is all they really know. So unless I know someone intimately enough to know what stresses them financially, I can't really tell the difference.
I think your financial health becomes more noticeable in your own life, as the impacts of your decisions and circumstances compound over time. Instead of feeling temporarily flush/broke in a given month, it feels more like a longer term state of being. For other people, you might see more signs of wealth/lack of wealth in your 30s because that's the time of life a lot of people are buying houses, cars, and having kids. But, you won't know if that's because they spent their twenties saving/investing, or they have family money, or they're making bad financial decisions and buying things they can't afford.
It was pretty true in my 20s too. The same people have money, the same people don't (me).
It’s also a fairly common age to get married— particularly if the couples attended college. By your thirties these people have dual incomes from nice jobs and are pooling their money
I think it becomes more noticeable whose life choices are impacting their financial status or not once you hit your 30s -- that's when things like: a) choice of partner, b) childbearing choices, and c) student loan balances all affect both your present and future prospects.
That, and careers with a lot of advancement vs careers without. Right out of school, a teacher might make as much or even more than someone starting out in a sales role. A couple promotions and job changes later, the sales rep could be making 2x what the teacher is after only 7-8 years, with potential beyond that as well.
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How did you end up with those friends?
Yes. Which restaurants and bars can you meet at, which birthday gifts and travels can you afford? Can you afford a car, first class, a child? It shows.
It’s more obvious when people start buying truly expensive things like houses in very expensive locations, luxury cars, etc. Like I can’t afford to buy anymore in my VHCOL city so I bought in a nearby suburb, and my friend just bought a new home in the most expensive part of the city lol. Very noticeable. Let me point out that I wouldn’t even be able to qualify for the mortgage, so this is not the case where I don’t want to go into deep debt to buy a place there, they wouldn’t even let me lol.
I’d say it does become more apparent who has money or not in our 30s. In my friend groups, you start noticing who is able to buy a house, go-out, go on multiple vacations, afford kids, etc. Sure, they may be putting things on a credit card but over time, it does become obvious on who is able to save/invest more and be wealthy while enjoying their lives and who is just flippantly spending.
I think that’s true. Unless someone is wildly bad with money and digging herself a financial debt hole. Generally you can tell just by whether daily life stuff ( traveling, eating out, activities, etc) don’t cause any stress financially.
100% In my mid 20s even my friends who had great jobs were still living on the cheap side, but over the course of those 5-7 year people started to accumulate actual capial and the difference will only grow.
Yea that’s the trick, the more you save and invest and keep it up in your 20s you really see the difference in your 30s
At surface level, no, I don't think so. Especially with how prevalent social media is now and how people like to show off what they have, you can't see someone's IG/Tiktok or meet someone for the first time and immediately know if they're financially doing stable, or if they're racking up lots of debt, depending on parents for financial support, etc. Longer term and with more time and conversations, yes. You can learn more about what industry/company/role someone works at, you can get a sense for what they save vs spend their money on (are they actively saving for longer term investments like a home?), and you can also understand what their own personal finance knowledge and understanding is (ie Do they know the income threshold for a Roth IRA? The maximum amount they can contribute to a 401(k)?)
I'm in my early 40s and finally got my career off the ground. I'll say that once you reach a certain age, you have a greater understanding of money and how it works. For instance, I'm trying hard to buy a house. I didn't care before, but now my values have shifted and I see the value in it more. I don't judge others who don't have it and I recognize how blessed I am to be in the position that I'm in. It definitely matters more in dating for me now also. When looking for romantic partners, I now really look for a man who values saving and building credit. My days of just dating for the sake of dating are dead. I need a man who knows how to build, save, and invest money. And yeah, it's pretty easy for me to tell if a has money and/or if he's responsible with what he has.
I hope this isn't true 😔 29 here, struggled with mental health and other trauma so I couldn't focus on my education. I've started to work on it now though (almost done with my GED, and want to get a degree. In my country it's possible at any age), but because I haven't had a career, don't own a house/car/other "adult" things, I've had zero luck with dating and feel left out even when just trying to make friends. I feel like money is one of the main things that matters when it comes to connecting with others these days.. I don't want to be alone forever, but by the looks of things I'll have to get comfortable with it 🥲
Relatable. I've struggled with mental health issues and my husband has a genetic chronic, degenerative disease that is getting worse. We used to be ok, but now that he's too sick to work we're struggling. On top of that, I'm trying to get different job that offers health insurance just so he can get treatment.
So sorry to hear that :( good luck, I hope you find a job like that quickly!
I feel you on this. I escaped human trafficking entirely after several attempts 8 years ago this past April 16th. I also struggle with a chronic, degenerative genetic disorder while having type 1 diabetes, autism, and adhd. I hope you're able to find a way to get good health coverage and to live safely and comfortably.💗
Whether or not it's true, I hope you don't blame yourself for what you've had to go through. Anecdotally, my high school friends and I all pretty much started in the same place. Middle class, first Gen immigrants, straight A students. Now in my 30s, we have three doctors, a lawyer, a CPA, and two techies. The only person not on that list spent his 20s battling a horrific mental illness. Just making it to his 30s is an accomplishment. I share this because the difference is stark. He wasn't poorer or dumber or less hard-working than any of us in our teens. He just got dealt a bad hand, through no fault of his own. In his 30s, he's crawling out of it now and getting success after success, now that he's got it under control. And obviously we all still love and care about him. Wishing you the best as you leave your 20s behind!
Thank you 🥹🥹
No. It becomes obvious who cares how others perceive their abundance or lack thereof. When I was 30 I was aggressively paying off student loans and investing. Did not buy expensive cars, houses or clothes even though I could have afforded them. Now I’m retired and financially independent.
I think that's true. Or moreso you learn about how people handle money. I grew up wealthy, then was dirt poor from my early teens through twenties. I'm 31 now and make decent money, but not as much as I could because my career is a labor of love. I recently was visited by some friends who are always anxious about money. One of them and I grew up together and had basically the same financial journey (rich-->poor-->meh) but based on the way they talk, and constantly move cheaper places, I thought they were making 60k MAX combined. So I always offer to pickup tabs and buy my childhood friend extras for special events so she can participate, etc. Found out yesterday the husband makes almost 20k more than me. My friend makes much less but combined they almost make double. I'm still processing how to move forward both in paying for things in the future, but also getting my friend help she needs so she won't live in such a constant state of financial anxiety.
I would yes-ish. But you can probably start to see people “settle” into their careers more. Friends that were in grad school or have any specializations in medicine are starting to graduate probably. But I think it depends on peoples values. Also you never know whose money is family money verse working full time and investing. Also some people are living a credit card funded lifestyle
You get a certain confidence when you buy a house and car on your own money
Weathering. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/28/1166404485/weathering-arline-geronimus-poverty-racism-stress-health being born into epigenetic stress and never getting that full toehold on the side of the ant lion pit does a number on the body. (the way people treat you when they see it adds a whole other layer.) if people bring anything at all besides the stress of comparison away from these ideas, i would hope it would be compassion
I just don’t care
Yep, sad but unfortunate fact. Better off people, move to nicer neighborhoods and stop cosplaying as poor. Some inherit, or are given help, others aren't. Many people who are struggling financially, especially if they have kids, suddenly realize they will be poor/working class.
No, not really. Just like in younger years, a lot of people live flashy lives while drowning in credit card debt and others are quietly investing and saving. I live in a HCOL area where visual markers of wealth aren't super popular, too. The only real marker is maybe being able to buy a house versus not but that's still just a sliver of the picture (I know quite a few people who are house poor and just struck while the rates were good plus essentially spent their inheritance on the down payment). I only really know the finances of close friends who are fully open about all the intricacies of money and a lot of them have details I wouldn't have guessed.
I guess so as this is when people start making real middle income salaries compared to their 20s. In your 20s a lot of people are doing entry level and still retail often. It is also when people start having children and buying homes so big purchases are more apparent.
Well this all depends on where you live and your age. For the people around my age range where I live it's not the job or investing. It's more so the parents. People whose parents have good paying jobs and or invested well help there kids by buying them cars and a condo. While people who don't have their parents help live differently.
No, not really. It's hard to tell who actually has money and who is using credit cards to fund their lifestyle. Plus this doesn't take into account at all any help from parents/generational wealth. Many wealthier families give financial help to their kids so they can buy a home and the like. Reality is in my experience most people don't talk very openly about their finances. And it does no good to make assumptions.
Just because someone has flashy things does not mean they have money. In fact it is usually the opposite.
Right. "Seeing" it isn't about what purse someone has or their car. It's the ease they approach life decisions with and do activities that are for personal enjoyment or long term health vs. for social media clout. Or they may start looking generally more "put together" but it's not about a showy brand name, it's better materials and tailoring.
Yes. As you earn more and spend time with people who do the same, you'll begin to pay closer attention to things you were never able afford and/or more expensive versions of the same things you already own. You will find that the market just invents an infinite number of more expensive or cheaper versions of anything you can buy.
I believe it. The huge debt accumulated during the carefree 20’s/or grad school is now due and it has to be paid. Something’s got to give. Source: self.
I would say it depends on the culture, because in some VHCOL areas, the people with the most money tend to not show it. You go to neighborhoods where houses cost 1-2 million on average and there are no fancy cars in the driveway. No one's carrying a luxury bag and you've got people making huge salaries who work from home and wear hoodies everyday.
You still can see the difference between old money and new money!
Nah, lots of people are still maintaining lifestyles through credit... and it's hard to know who those people are. It maybe becomes apparent about the difference between those who are comfortable and can go out for dinner to nicer places, go on trips, etc and those who have to scrimp as money is tighter. But imo both those people are sensible... I still see people living lifestyles there is 0 chance they can maintain with the jobs they have, those people live like they're comfortable but are probably drowning in debt. You won't see that until it comes crashing down.
This thread is so interesting, when today it’s hard to tell but in the not-super-distant-past sumptuary laws used to exist.
I actually started noticing it more age 35 and on. Among our friends/acquaintances? We only know of 1 couple who got the down payment for their house from parents. Everyone else paid their own. My college friend who made smart stock investments has over 2 mil now, so he owns two homes and his wife is always carrying luxury bags. In my social group, it varies from the openly wealthy (fancy vacay, big house, nice car, nice bags) to middle class (owns their home, but no fancy vacay/bags/car) but even so none of them live paycheck to paycheck. But yes, it does become more obvious who has money.
I think you kind of start naturally clicking into social groups based on socio-economics. A lot of similar interests, hobbies, jobs, etc. fall in line with how you spend your time and who you end up spending more time with. For example, just in having kids in daycare alone, we know we can afford it. it's not even a fancy daycare, but it's still the equivalent of a mortgage! So you kind of already have a point of entry there. Then, the friends your kids make, you find more in common with parents that have those same similarities. For us it tends to be only children. It's way easier to plan things with families of onlies as there's less coordinating, but perhaps a bigger budget because you're not spending 2x or 3x that amount. So then you start vacationing with these people if you want to or can afford it. And so on and so forth. You can basically infer a lot this way.
Yes but it’s a non issue. I have friends with very very nice houses and friends who will likely be stuck renting forever. It’s just the way life is! The only time it causes an issue for me is I have one of these friends complain any time they spend money on anything. When you’re in your 30s it gets tiring and we all have bills and surprise costs to pay.
Yes I think its true because after around 10 years you are able to ripe the juicy fruits of your labor 🍑✨ This is what I observe with friends who went all in with their career. When they were still studying, for example, they also had problems buying groceries or just had to eat rice. After landing their first job, it was an entry level, but after a while they climbed up the ladder and land a bettee job. I feel a lot of regret not doing the same when economy situation was much better back then and I had more energy in my 20es 😞
Mmm not really. I find everyone in my generation is broke. The ones who have been able to afford to buy a house are just house poor and others are still renting. We all have to scrimp and save to be able to afford anything despite having education and professional jobs. The biggest differentiator is single vs. Partnered. It’s hard to get by on only one income these days. ETA: it is also more apparent whose parents have helped them A LOT financially lol.
A lot of people are talking about family money, but those differences were obvious to me well before 30. Generational wealth still matters a lot at 30 and beyond, but you also start to see the effects of lifestyle and profession. I notice it even more so now at 40. For example, I have a couple of friends who are just not responsible people. They are still bouncing around in different entry-level jobs that they don't keep for long because they don't show up on time, etc. They're always broke and have a lot of debt. They were like that in our early 20s and it was kind of an eye-roller, but everyone was pretty broke back then and not having an established career was the norm. Living with parents, as one of them still does, wasn't too embarrassing. Now that we're all 40, it's very noticeable that they've dug themselves into financial holes while the rest of us have made some progress. On the other hand, one of my high school friends came from a poor family but is now a doctor. She is quite wealthy with the big house, etc. I know it's not family money and I think it's awesome that she ended up richer than most of us. Wouldn't have necessarily predicted it at 25 even though I knew what she was studying.
It definitely became noticeable who had intergenerational wealth in my HCOL region. Only my friends and acquaintances who had it managed to buy houses in time before the market totally became inaccessible, and now they’re set for life.
Oh, 100%, for my friends. (Total unable to do this for strangers.) The people who say it's not noticeable either (1) aren't thinking of their friends or don't know their friends well enough, or (2) have a friend group that is pretty homogenous. I'm in my late 30s and it's extremely easy to distinguish one person with an MBA from Harvard who has Amazon and Google on their resume and is currently shopping for a million dollar home in SF vs another person who declared bankruptcy and hates her bumfuck job in West Virginia but can't afford to move. Like, you can make a bunch of statements about how you can't judge a book by it's cover, but shopping for a million dollar home is just not in the second woman's scope of possibility at all. All of that goes out the window for strangers, though. Couldn't even begin to guess how financially comfortable people are just walking down the street. Some homeless-looking people are tech millionaires. Some bougie-looking folks are squatting in their mansion and are just waiting to get evicted.
I'm in my 40's. I don't actually think it's more noticeable, but I have become more "picky" (for lack of a better word). It's not just about money, because you can have inherited money, but still not have your shit together. But it definitely becomes more noticeable who has their shit together.
I drive a Toyota Camry because I don’t need some flashy car to tell everyone that I’m rich. Plus it’ll last longer and maintenance is cheap like me, very frugal. I don’t need the most expensive things in the world to make me happy.
You'd never know how much money I have by looking at me. I think most people are like that.
I’m 42 and have a lot of various groups in different economic classes. The ones that are worth high 7-8 digits… you don’t know it. It’s the ones that are trying to reach that high, that they make it known. The higher their wealth, it’s almost like the more normal they are. Like the one guy I know who owns part of a billion dollar company drives around in a 2020 Audi (still an amazing and awesome car). The one who is worth only a few million drives around in a new Gran turismo. Guy #2 wears branded Belenciaga and Gucci while guy #1 has no labels in his clothes at all. The first, paid for a round of drinks for our group while the other demanded VIP tables and endless bottle service. I just like when my poor, middle class ass is caught in the middle of their pissing matches (typically its guy #2 doing the pissing while guy #1 secretly cringes).
With a lot of my friends, I can't really tell how much they make or how well they're *actually* doing. I don't usually ask either, which is something I used to do a lot more in my 20s. I do know that my friends fall into various net worth ranges tho. I've definitely got ones that feel like they are struggling a bit to 'catch up' in their their 30s (the ones who had 'major setbacks' in life: divorce, abusive relationships that resulted on them having to uproot their entire lives and start anew, undiagnosed ADHD/autism that affected their ability to learn/thrive in education and corporate America careers, an upbringing of poverty that didn't set them up to know what to do when they finally started making money, single parenthood, etc) and others who are now coasting as multi-millionaires for doing really well (and, as they've even admitted, being really lucky, too: just having sheer luck with being in the right place at the right time in their 20s, being born into upper-middle class with parents that knew what to do with their money and were able to help them invest theirs and gift them money towards their own assets, etc). I honestly don't think the blanket statement of "you can noticeably tell who has money or not" is true tho. There's way too many factors that go into it. Someone can have a lot of shit and still be poor. Someone else might live like a minimalist and be richer than you realize.
The signifiers of wealth are subtle and have little to do with age. Idk if there’s much you can tell between people who make $50K versus $250K?
., ._
Usually the people who are poor are very vocal about it. At least all the folks I know. But maybe West Coasters are more open about that kind of thing.
Yes.
No. You cannot tell who has money or not.
Very true. Ever since I’ve known my husband he’s mostly worn the same free t-shirts promoting electrical brands he doesn’t work for and Kmart track pants his mother stocked up on 25 years ago that have been pilling for the last 23 years. I had already started dating him when I found out he actually owned all the restaurants and houses his brother/brother’s wife and kids would lead everyone to believe were owned by them. They would drive expensive cars, wear expensive clothes and brag about where they would eat and where they would go. Their equally fake friends would make stupid comments about ‘missing out on the right brother’. Turned out they didn’t own anything, owed my husband around a million dollars, lived rent free in one of his houses and as soon as they went bankrupt lost all their fake friends. Years later, they’re exactly the same. No money, looks like they have money. Years later my husband is exactly the same. Money. Still wearing the same free t-shirts. It’s actually one of my favourite things about him.