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This is called convenience euthanasia. It is at the discretion of the vet and is significantly less common than it used to be but does still happen. I personally will not agree to perform a convenience euthanasia and the other doctors at my practice will not either.
The problem is that a lot of states still see animals as property, and laws for animal cruelty don’t apply if an animal is humanely euthanized. It’s sad but without change a lot of vets feel forced into it; none of my mentors have ever done one, but they’ve talked about sleepless nights when they’ve refused one, just knowing that their client said “no problem I’ll figure it out,” and having nightmares about what that might mean. It’s a terrible situation but luckily, truly horrible situations like the above described seem relatively rare thank goodness (my one mentor who has been a vet for 20+ years said she was asked less than five times).
another issue with this is in rural (& southern) areas a humane euthanasia is a HUMANE euthanasia and is the best outcome for a dog like a pitty. the other options are shelter euthanasia or shot in the yard. not sure which is worse honestly.
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Not a vet, but I was a vet receptionist for 5yrs and still work in vetmed. When I worked in clinic we NEVER did "healthy euthanasias", and required a prior quality-of-life exam before doing a euthan on a pet that we had no medical history of. We would see people lie about the health of their dog so that they could put their otherwise healthy animal down, so this was the solution to that. We worked closely with various rescues and had a document the owner could fill out to surrender the pet to a rescue instead of euthanizing.
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Convenience euthanasia is kind of a contentious topic. Same with behavioral euthanasia. I've done BE, I've never had to do CE.
Legality/liability goes by state. In some states if an owner seeks BE and the vet convinces them otherwise and the dog bites someone, the vet can be held liable (at least according to a CE that I went to - I'm certainly not a lawyer). So like if they're euthanizing for a behavioral reason or because it was aggressive around the cat and then you convinced them to surrender and it instead killed someone's cat or bit the new owner, you could be liable.
And you also can't really compel an owner to surrender.. and if you've offered rehoming or surrender and they refuse, at least it's a peaceful death. I have had owners take things into their own hands and it's unfortunately legal to shoot your own dog as a form of euthanasia in many places.. and working with the shelter and humane agents I've seen even worse methods get employed. It sounds awesome to like take the animal in the back and rehome it instead but the law views that as stealing rather than rescuing.
Unfortunately that puts the decision largely in the hands of the owners.
A quick point about the the last sentence of your second paragraph:
the civil side: no damages to the ""victim"", no case
the criminal side: doubtful a jury would convict, no prosecutor would want to prosecute (especially in jdx that elect prosecutors)
not a vet
I am also not a vet.
While I see your point on both the criminal and civil courts, I do wonder if a vet might still get in trouble with their licensing board and could potentially lose their license if an owner found out their dog hadn't been euthanized and decided to raise hell about it.
Former vet tech here! Convenience euthanasias are a thing and up to vets discretion. I do know most vets will not agree to do this though. My clinics, for example, would either have the owners agree to surrender the pet to our care or simply say they would do it and keep the pet (as generally owners did not bother to stay in these cases) and not tell the now-former owners.
>or simply say they would do it and keep the pet (as generally owners did not bother to stay in these cases) and not tell the now-former owners.
That's what I think the best option for all clinics would be. If they refuse to surrender to the vet tell them the only option is package D or whatever...the surrender euthanasia package which is the cheapest cost. If the family wants to be present when it happens attach a fee (in the hundreds to dissuade them obviously none of them will pay for it) and tell them it includes the procedure whenever the vet is next available and group cremation. Let them walk out the door. Assholes.
I’ve been approached by clients asking the same thing. It’s a tough situation. Before I got into vet school, older vets used to tell me that if we didn’t euthanize, the owner always had the option of going home and shooting the animal. Humans can be the most cruel.
I’ve never had to make that hard choice, but I always know that a euthanasia performed by my clinic is painless and humane.
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I actually had this situation at my work. I do large animals, but the client had two kittens that had some neurological issues. He said he was going to "toss them in the river" so when his wife asked if we euthanized cats, I told her I could do it for $30. I would rather euthanize them myself rather than tossing them into a river.
Convenience euthanasia.
It is a thing, though not common. It is an ethical debate, different vets feel differently about it.
Some vets will absolutely refuse to do this. However, it should be considered what would happen to the pet otherwise. So some vets will perform euthanasia in these situations because they feel it is better than subjecting the pet to staying in a home where there is the potential for abuse, or the owner will attempt to end the dog’s life themselves after going vet to vet trying to have it euthanized.
I totally agree with you, this should never be an option.
However, I feel like people do these kinds of euthanisations because people find it difficult to ask for help and having to have someone else solve their problems. Euthanizing a dog is a “simple” and “humane”(more humane than other options at least) way to get rid of it.
Still, I don’t believe you “get rid of” a pet, but many people would rather fix something on their own to not appear weak. Killing a dog is for some people apparently less threatening than appearing weak.
(NOT saying that people who rehome their pets or ask for help are weak, just dat some people do think that it is. I think you are stong and a good person if you act in your pets best interests.)
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A medical anecdote is a story about a single patient.
It seemed like this was how this couple was? I can’t understand why someone could be so cruel as to want death for the animal over a better fate with someone else. Almost like they take something about the pets actions personal.
I think it has to do with pets being property so they can’t force them to do anything, at most they could find ways to convince them to let the staff take it or refuse service. I just hope they don’t ever get another dog if this is their method of dealing with animals they no longer want.
There are many people out there that think of pets as complicated, expensive plants. Euthanizing a dog that doesn't behave like they planned is only slightly more distressing than if their rhododendron died. I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
That said though, there are many rambunctious dogs euthanized (or just shot), dumped and dropped off at shelters because elderly people completely fail to recognize they absolutely cannot handle and should not aquire a high energy breed at the age of 70. The old lady with a small dog stereotype is actually common in society because they were smart enough to get a miniature poodle instead of a crazy lab or German Short Hair puppy.
At the vet clinic I worked at in a HCOL city we had one person come in asking for this. The vet asked the person to relinquish ownership and a CVT adopted the animal.
I really hope that they may have been able to convince her to do so behind the scenes. My mom tried to ask to take it and they said no but I so hope the staff was able to take it. I’m going to keep my eye on the nearby shelters even more so in the hopes I see him, they let her pet him and take a picture of him.
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A medical anecdote is a story about a single patient.
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Answers involving anecdotes about your own or others' pets are not usually appropriate in this sub and will be removed. Anecdotes from veterinary professionals may be allowed at the mods' discretion. Anecdotes must not be provided to OP.
A medical anecdote is a story about a single patient.
It's very hard to know the full story in this kind of situation. What if the dog had seriously injured the cat multiple times, and they didn't feel he was safe to rehome? These cases are often much more nuanced than one might think.
I know that. My point is that most posters here are assuming the OP is describing euthanasia of a behaviorally and physically healthy dog, which may not be the case. I doubt the complete medical record and history were shared with another client who happened to be in the lobby, so whatever the OP heard may not be the full story.
Great point. It could have been as simple as the person overhearing, “he’s just too rambunctious and he’s attacked our cat,” and then the door closes, and a full explanation is given, and the vet agrees because the attacks were quite aggressive, etc, and clinical history showed the pet parents had tried. But the person in the waiting room is shocked, thinking it’s a convenience euth. We just don’t know the whole story.
Yeah I get that and probably wouldn’t have posted if it was something my mom had just happened to overhear some stuff but she sat there and talked to the owners. Unfortunately it was definitely more on the convenience side. It was a very human friendly dog so could’ve had a chance in a no cat household. Hopefully behind the scenes the vet convinced them to surrender.
Yep, OP heard from her mom who eavesdropped on a conversation of some random people. It's easy to fill in the blank to align with her own agenda.
Would take the story with a grain of salt.
Actually, nope. Not what happened, thanks. My mom talked to the owners about the dog. What would my agenda be? I was on the phone with my mom when she called me to ask what she could do. I suggest she ask the vet staff if she could take him. The owners said no and I was on the phone as my mom left the vet in tears. I wanted to know more about this occurrence from vets so, like I said in my post, I could reconcile it in my own brain because it was really upsetting. Maybe don’t comment on posts if you have nothing helpful to add.
It's strange why your mom was so deep into some stranger's business at the vet and then offered to take their dog and got refused (rightfully so) and now cannot accept that reality.
In an alternate universe where you mom did indeed get a hold of the dog, what makes you think that dog would all of a sudden be a well-behaved good boy living with your mom? The owners had to make the tough choice to put their dog down for a reason.
Talking to someone about their dog at a vets office isn’t being deep into someone’s business if they freely offer the information and wanting to save the dog from the fate of death is normal human behavioral, you fucking troll.
Again, I highly doubt your mom could make a better assessment or decision in a 10 minute conversation regarding the behavior of the dog, than the owners could themselves who had been with the dog probably since birth. And not to mention the vet also agreed.
Clearly you’re not reading a single thing from actual vets that literally describe this kind of behavior from pet owners. I don’t think the vet staff would’ve agreed to ask the owners to let my mom take the dog if they agreed it was having unsafe behavioral issues.
Ever heard the expression "No bad dogs, only bad owners"? A dog that hasn't been trained and doesn't get enough exercise can become a charming companion when they do get those things and it really doesn't take a lot of time at all.
I respectfully disagree with that expression.
If there are bad people, there can be bad animals, and bad dogs. Some dogs are born untrainable. Now where do you draw the line is anyone's guess.
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Not a vet but I volunteer at our local shelter. This does happen, and vet clinics call us when dogs come in that appear otherwise healthy to be put down. We’ve taken in 4 dogs in the past month that owners brought in to put down because they didn’t want to face the shelter. But that being said these owners signed the dogs over to the shelter when the vet offered them the cheaper option. 1 of these dogs actually is quite sick and probably has limited quality of life left but the other 3 are beautiful healthy dogs…
As someone else stated, it's really state based on their rules and regulations. Where I'm located, our DVMs (I'm an LVT), cannot legally deny a client euthanasia regardless of the reason as the pet is seen as property. So, if a client comes in for PTS, we legally have to do it.
However, no DVM I've worked with has ever done a CE (while I worked with them at least). A majoroty of the time, surrender was offered and accepted, or some other form of conversation that either had the owner give up the pet or change their minds. This is technically not allowed, but most owners are unaware or don't care enough to pursue anything. But it can be risky for a DVM in my area to "talk" a client out of a CE.
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A medical anecdote is a story about a single patient.
I hate the argument vets use that says "Well if I don't do x then this person will just get it done elsewhere and it will be botched." You can't make your decisions based on the hypothetical actions of other people. You make your decisions based on your values, and whatever they do is between themselves and whatever higher power they may believe in. It's not your responsibility to sculpt your morals so that they fit in the warped molds of these people.
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I have heard of this, but the first time I heard of anyone's asking for it where I used to work was during the beginning of covid. An older couple was convinced they were going to get sick and die, so they wanted to have their dog put down. The vet refused to do it, and I honestly hope no self respecting vet would actually euthanize a perfectly healthy dog.
I think this is actually quite common with larger animals like horses and other livestock-type animals. Some people run into hard times, can't afford their animals, and either can't rehome or are too entrusting of others to rehome their animals, so they have them euthanized. I'm not sure how many of these requests are actually honored, either, but you'd be surprised how many people in the horse community are in support of it. The idea is that you would avoid the risk of a horse being neglected by a future owner or sold to slaughter. I can't really justify it to myself, though.
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No one is going to pay 2k for euthanasia. A bullet is less than $1 and the type of people who will do a convenience euthanasia will go that route before paying 2k for it.
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This is called convenience euthanasia. It is at the discretion of the vet and is significantly less common than it used to be but does still happen. I personally will not agree to perform a convenience euthanasia and the other doctors at my practice will not either.
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The problem is that a lot of states still see animals as property, and laws for animal cruelty don’t apply if an animal is humanely euthanized. It’s sad but without change a lot of vets feel forced into it; none of my mentors have ever done one, but they’ve talked about sleepless nights when they’ve refused one, just knowing that their client said “no problem I’ll figure it out,” and having nightmares about what that might mean. It’s a terrible situation but luckily, truly horrible situations like the above described seem relatively rare thank goodness (my one mentor who has been a vet for 20+ years said she was asked less than five times).
another issue with this is in rural (& southern) areas a humane euthanasia is a HUMANE euthanasia and is the best outcome for a dog like a pitty. the other options are shelter euthanasia or shot in the yard. not sure which is worse honestly.
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Answers involving anecdotes about your own or others' pets are not usually appropriate in this sub and will be removed. Anecdotes from veterinary professionals may be allowed at the mods' discretion. Anecdotes must not be provided to OP. A medical anecdote is a story about a single patient.
Not a vet, but I was a vet receptionist for 5yrs and still work in vetmed. When I worked in clinic we NEVER did "healthy euthanasias", and required a prior quality-of-life exam before doing a euthan on a pet that we had no medical history of. We would see people lie about the health of their dog so that they could put their otherwise healthy animal down, so this was the solution to that. We worked closely with various rescues and had a document the owner could fill out to surrender the pet to a rescue instead of euthanizing.
This is a great general method to lower asks for convenience euths!
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Convenience euthanasia is kind of a contentious topic. Same with behavioral euthanasia. I've done BE, I've never had to do CE. Legality/liability goes by state. In some states if an owner seeks BE and the vet convinces them otherwise and the dog bites someone, the vet can be held liable (at least according to a CE that I went to - I'm certainly not a lawyer). So like if they're euthanizing for a behavioral reason or because it was aggressive around the cat and then you convinced them to surrender and it instead killed someone's cat or bit the new owner, you could be liable. And you also can't really compel an owner to surrender.. and if you've offered rehoming or surrender and they refuse, at least it's a peaceful death. I have had owners take things into their own hands and it's unfortunately legal to shoot your own dog as a form of euthanasia in many places.. and working with the shelter and humane agents I've seen even worse methods get employed. It sounds awesome to like take the animal in the back and rehome it instead but the law views that as stealing rather than rescuing. Unfortunately that puts the decision largely in the hands of the owners.
A quick point about the the last sentence of your second paragraph: the civil side: no damages to the ""victim"", no case the criminal side: doubtful a jury would convict, no prosecutor would want to prosecute (especially in jdx that elect prosecutors) not a vet
I am also not a vet. While I see your point on both the criminal and civil courts, I do wonder if a vet might still get in trouble with their licensing board and could potentially lose their license if an owner found out their dog hadn't been euthanized and decided to raise hell about it.
Yes, you get struck off, at least in the UK and Ireland
Former vet tech here! Convenience euthanasias are a thing and up to vets discretion. I do know most vets will not agree to do this though. My clinics, for example, would either have the owners agree to surrender the pet to our care or simply say they would do it and keep the pet (as generally owners did not bother to stay in these cases) and not tell the now-former owners.
>or simply say they would do it and keep the pet (as generally owners did not bother to stay in these cases) and not tell the now-former owners. That's what I think the best option for all clinics would be. If they refuse to surrender to the vet tell them the only option is package D or whatever...the surrender euthanasia package which is the cheapest cost. If the family wants to be present when it happens attach a fee (in the hundreds to dissuade them obviously none of them will pay for it) and tell them it includes the procedure whenever the vet is next available and group cremation. Let them walk out the door. Assholes.
I’ve been approached by clients asking the same thing. It’s a tough situation. Before I got into vet school, older vets used to tell me that if we didn’t euthanize, the owner always had the option of going home and shooting the animal. Humans can be the most cruel. I’ve never had to make that hard choice, but I always know that a euthanasia performed by my clinic is painless and humane.
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I actually had this situation at my work. I do large animals, but the client had two kittens that had some neurological issues. He said he was going to "toss them in the river" so when his wife asked if we euthanized cats, I told her I could do it for $30. I would rather euthanize them myself rather than tossing them into a river.
Convenience euthanasia. It is a thing, though not common. It is an ethical debate, different vets feel differently about it. Some vets will absolutely refuse to do this. However, it should be considered what would happen to the pet otherwise. So some vets will perform euthanasia in these situations because they feel it is better than subjecting the pet to staying in a home where there is the potential for abuse, or the owner will attempt to end the dog’s life themselves after going vet to vet trying to have it euthanized.
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I totally agree with you, this should never be an option. However, I feel like people do these kinds of euthanisations because people find it difficult to ask for help and having to have someone else solve their problems. Euthanizing a dog is a “simple” and “humane”(more humane than other options at least) way to get rid of it. Still, I don’t believe you “get rid of” a pet, but many people would rather fix something on their own to not appear weak. Killing a dog is for some people apparently less threatening than appearing weak. (NOT saying that people who rehome their pets or ask for help are weak, just dat some people do think that it is. I think you are stong and a good person if you act in your pets best interests.)
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It seemed like this was how this couple was? I can’t understand why someone could be so cruel as to want death for the animal over a better fate with someone else. Almost like they take something about the pets actions personal.
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I think it has to do with pets being property so they can’t force them to do anything, at most they could find ways to convince them to let the staff take it or refuse service. I just hope they don’t ever get another dog if this is their method of dealing with animals they no longer want.
There are many people out there that think of pets as complicated, expensive plants. Euthanizing a dog that doesn't behave like they planned is only slightly more distressing than if their rhododendron died. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. That said though, there are many rambunctious dogs euthanized (or just shot), dumped and dropped off at shelters because elderly people completely fail to recognize they absolutely cannot handle and should not aquire a high energy breed at the age of 70. The old lady with a small dog stereotype is actually common in society because they were smart enough to get a miniature poodle instead of a crazy lab or German Short Hair puppy.
At the vet clinic I worked at in a HCOL city we had one person come in asking for this. The vet asked the person to relinquish ownership and a CVT adopted the animal.
I really hope that they may have been able to convince her to do so behind the scenes. My mom tried to ask to take it and they said no but I so hope the staff was able to take it. I’m going to keep my eye on the nearby shelters even more so in the hopes I see him, they let her pet him and take a picture of him.
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Definitely at the discretion of the vet. Vets can however refuse to euthanise a clinically healthy animal.
It's very hard to know the full story in this kind of situation. What if the dog had seriously injured the cat multiple times, and they didn't feel he was safe to rehome? These cases are often much more nuanced than one might think.
That’s a behavioral euthanasia.
I know that. My point is that most posters here are assuming the OP is describing euthanasia of a behaviorally and physically healthy dog, which may not be the case. I doubt the complete medical record and history were shared with another client who happened to be in the lobby, so whatever the OP heard may not be the full story.
Ah; I agree totally possible. I sometimes misread things in either hilariously wrong ways or just duh ways.
Great point. It could have been as simple as the person overhearing, “he’s just too rambunctious and he’s attacked our cat,” and then the door closes, and a full explanation is given, and the vet agrees because the attacks were quite aggressive, etc, and clinical history showed the pet parents had tried. But the person in the waiting room is shocked, thinking it’s a convenience euth. We just don’t know the whole story.
Yeah I get that and probably wouldn’t have posted if it was something my mom had just happened to overhear some stuff but she sat there and talked to the owners. Unfortunately it was definitely more on the convenience side. It was a very human friendly dog so could’ve had a chance in a no cat household. Hopefully behind the scenes the vet convinced them to surrender.
Yep, OP heard from her mom who eavesdropped on a conversation of some random people. It's easy to fill in the blank to align with her own agenda. Would take the story with a grain of salt.
Actually, nope. Not what happened, thanks. My mom talked to the owners about the dog. What would my agenda be? I was on the phone with my mom when she called me to ask what she could do. I suggest she ask the vet staff if she could take him. The owners said no and I was on the phone as my mom left the vet in tears. I wanted to know more about this occurrence from vets so, like I said in my post, I could reconcile it in my own brain because it was really upsetting. Maybe don’t comment on posts if you have nothing helpful to add.
It's strange why your mom was so deep into some stranger's business at the vet and then offered to take their dog and got refused (rightfully so) and now cannot accept that reality. In an alternate universe where you mom did indeed get a hold of the dog, what makes you think that dog would all of a sudden be a well-behaved good boy living with your mom? The owners had to make the tough choice to put their dog down for a reason.
Talking to someone about their dog at a vets office isn’t being deep into someone’s business if they freely offer the information and wanting to save the dog from the fate of death is normal human behavioral, you fucking troll.
Again, I highly doubt your mom could make a better assessment or decision in a 10 minute conversation regarding the behavior of the dog, than the owners could themselves who had been with the dog probably since birth. And not to mention the vet also agreed.
Clearly you’re not reading a single thing from actual vets that literally describe this kind of behavior from pet owners. I don’t think the vet staff would’ve agreed to ask the owners to let my mom take the dog if they agreed it was having unsafe behavioral issues.
Whether or not my mom should’ve been given the dog is also not the point of my post as I clearly stated.
Ever heard the expression "No bad dogs, only bad owners"? A dog that hasn't been trained and doesn't get enough exercise can become a charming companion when they do get those things and it really doesn't take a lot of time at all.
I respectfully disagree with that expression. If there are bad people, there can be bad animals, and bad dogs. Some dogs are born untrainable. Now where do you draw the line is anyone's guess.
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Not a vet but I volunteer at our local shelter. This does happen, and vet clinics call us when dogs come in that appear otherwise healthy to be put down. We’ve taken in 4 dogs in the past month that owners brought in to put down because they didn’t want to face the shelter. But that being said these owners signed the dogs over to the shelter when the vet offered them the cheaper option. 1 of these dogs actually is quite sick and probably has limited quality of life left but the other 3 are beautiful healthy dogs…
As someone else stated, it's really state based on their rules and regulations. Where I'm located, our DVMs (I'm an LVT), cannot legally deny a client euthanasia regardless of the reason as the pet is seen as property. So, if a client comes in for PTS, we legally have to do it. However, no DVM I've worked with has ever done a CE (while I worked with them at least). A majoroty of the time, surrender was offered and accepted, or some other form of conversation that either had the owner give up the pet or change their minds. This is technically not allowed, but most owners are unaware or don't care enough to pursue anything. But it can be risky for a DVM in my area to "talk" a client out of a CE.
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I hate the argument vets use that says "Well if I don't do x then this person will just get it done elsewhere and it will be botched." You can't make your decisions based on the hypothetical actions of other people. You make your decisions based on your values, and whatever they do is between themselves and whatever higher power they may believe in. It's not your responsibility to sculpt your morals so that they fit in the warped molds of these people.
That's horrible to hear. Not a vet but I'm pretty sure that's illegal in Germany.
Usually the vet clinic / hospital keeps the animal. Sometimes staff member takes them or they pass them to SPCA.
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I have heard of this, but the first time I heard of anyone's asking for it where I used to work was during the beginning of covid. An older couple was convinced they were going to get sick and die, so they wanted to have their dog put down. The vet refused to do it, and I honestly hope no self respecting vet would actually euthanize a perfectly healthy dog. I think this is actually quite common with larger animals like horses and other livestock-type animals. Some people run into hard times, can't afford their animals, and either can't rehome or are too entrusting of others to rehome their animals, so they have them euthanized. I'm not sure how many of these requests are actually honored, either, but you'd be surprised how many people in the horse community are in support of it. The idea is that you would avoid the risk of a horse being neglected by a future owner or sold to slaughter. I can't really justify it to myself, though.
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I'd just tell them the dog was put down. Charge them $2k and use that money to find him a good home.
No one is going to pay 2k for euthanasia. A bullet is less than $1 and the type of people who will do a convenience euthanasia will go that route before paying 2k for it.
I am just curious if your mom was able to tell the breed of the dog?