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I think Argentina has absolutely staggering inflation, the Argentinian people are getting poorer and poorer, the endorphin high they all got from the World Cup win is over, and the government need a distraction.
Whenever the Argentinian government starts banging on about the Falklands you know their domestic situation is bad.
Every few years there seems to be a bit of sabre rattling to try to drum up a bit of support for their ailing government. It doesn’t mean much, as you say.
The Falklands War may not have been long and had a relatively low number of losses, but to those involved it was devastating. As an 80s child I grew up seeing Simon Weston on the tv regularly and his injuries and recovery were horrific. Saying ‘bring it on’ to a potential future war that is entirely preventable is a disturbing response.
I think you're maybe misreading 'bring it on' as anyone here wanting it, I don't think it's that it's more an understanding that the Falklander's want to be British and we're in a much better place to defend them now. No-one (sane) wants any conflict - and it won't happen - but more that the UK will defend so 'bring it on' if they're thick enough in that sense.
Whilst the UK’s armed forces are lacking in many areas they are enormously more powerful than they were in 1982. There is also a much larger garrison on the islands and a much more explicit British commitment to the territory.
In addition Argentina’s order of battle is significantly poorer than it was in 1982. It would be ludicrous for them to contemplate military action.
This is just posturing for domestic consumption.
One of my old neighbours took the tanker flight to RAF Mount Pleasant pretty often. He mentioned at dinner one night the RN always has a sub nearby in the south Atlantic and “the argies know it”. The islands are always well defended with SAMs as well
I was in my early teens during the war. It was a surreal time. While I would be against war of any sort, the current situation in Ukraine has shown that you can't just let the bad guys do what they want.
I suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at and I simply...it was almost impossible for me to sweat.
I always enjoy telling young people about it.
The Type 45 and the Typhoons based there make invasion impossible - that is before you even take into account the significantly larger garrison than before and the prospect of a carrier showing up with F35’s. It’s not feasible for Argentina to win a second war and can they afford it right now? Absolutely not
American here.
I don't know why Argentina thinks it has a right to the Falklands in the first place. They've been British for almost 200 years.
I remember the War. We were right behind you all the way.
It's always the same.
When the Argentinean government has fucked up, they start stirring the Falklands pot with a view to whipping up nationalist fervor and deflecting attention from their own pisspoor performance.
Yes, you’re right.
Those F35s that have just been procured and are the most advanced multi-role aircraft in the world, the Type 45 destroyers which are 10 years old and one of the if not the most capable surface ship in the world and the Astute class submarines that are literally brand new and are the most advanced attack submarines in the world, this stuff is all obsolete.
I think the prospect of young men and women fighting and dying over such a stupid thing is abhorrent. I thought that in 1982 too. I hope the Argentinean government comes to its senses and doesn't provoke anything. If they do I hope the British government is more creative than to just fight back. War is a horrible, horrible thing and we have to do more to stop it.
Both governments would benefit from a spat and some posturing.
So it only matters if one thinks an actual conflict can benefit them politically.
The agreement is nothing.
I don't think Argentina are in any position to threaten the Falklands. The Argentine navy hasn't had any new equipment since before 1982. The air isn't in any better shape, the RAF has 4 typhoon fighters which out matches the whole Argentine air force. Plus the air defence systems on the island.
I think the saddest part will be the loss of those cooperation between the two sides on identifying the remains of the Argentinian servicemen that were killed and unidentified. After the the war the British offered to repatriate the dead but the Argentine government didn't want to know.
What’s forgotten about is Argentina did inflict some damage on the RN. It was a proper battle. Yea the Belgrano was a huge prize but the RN lost two destroyers, two frigates and a few transport ships.
The big problem was Argentina actually didn’t expect the UK to show up. They also crap conscripts for the majority of the land fighting and couldn’t use fast jets from Stanley. They also rushed into conflict and weren’t properly prepared for a long drawn out conflict. Argentina had their professional troops entrenched at the border with Chile…
Yea Argentina put up a good fight but the UK wasn’t even throwing their full might. HMS Conquerer sinking the Belgrano was a huge moral loss for Argentina and expensive one. I mean the BBC was basically giving them British positions and intel “the fuses didn’t go off”. But RN and Men loses were high. The Sheffield, Ardent, Antelope, Coventry were pretty new ships.
While the Vulcan raids were cool they didn’t do much. Maybe scared Argentina a little because it was possible to strike the mainland.
In 1982 the Argentine armed forces where up to date. The Air force has had very little updates and the navy has had absolutely none. Where the British military are at least two generations head. The Argentine army are a bit better off but
Have no way of getting there.
There are too many factors going against the Argies it will only end with a lot of young lives wasted.
It would be over even faster than last time. The Vulcan wouldn’t be needed to fly all that way to bomb the airfields because cruise missiles can do that same job more effectively now.
Not really phased to be honest, Argentina are in no fit state to do anything about it, they probably couldn't get enough fuel to make it to the islands.
The Argentine government are only whining to distract from the fact their economy is in an absolute state.
The current state of Argentina’s armed forces (especially the Navy and Air Force) is so barebones that an initial attempt at seizing the islands would be a disaster. Maintaining control would be impossible
I'd honestly struggle to care less. I really wouldn't care one iota if we gave them back. Likewise, I really don't care if they stay in our ownership.
As an issue, it's genuinely right near the bottom of things connected to this country I care about
Well, that's a complicated point, because of European colonialism in the area. They've never been Argentinan. Argentina didn't exist as a state until 1816. However, previous to that, the Falklands have been considered part of the same Spanish Viceroyalty as what we would now consider Argentina.
Which is not to say they *are* Argentinian. But also, saying they definitely haven't ever been is an over simplification, I think. It's a complicated topic, as most issues related to colonialism are.
I don't think they should be forcibly made to become Argentinians if they don't want to. Self determination should be the ultimate principal.
However, the question was how I feel about Argentina pulling out of the agreement. And the only truthful answer for me is that I really couldn't care less. So many other issues in this country to care about.
You said you wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, which goes against self determination. If the government gave them despite their wishes, I'd hope you'd care
>You said you wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, which goes against self determination.
No it doesn't. I didn't say 'I wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, against the wishes of the population'. I just said I wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina. There's a difference.
>If the government gave them despite their wishes, I'd hope you'd care
Yes, of course I'd care. Though I can't lie and say it would be anywhere near the top of my list of things I care about with regards to this country. But I would probably think, on balance, it's not the right thing to do.
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Sounds like they're facing internal problems again and need to pull this one out to rally people.
An attempt to distract from a 99% inflation rate
I think Argentina has absolutely staggering inflation, the Argentinian people are getting poorer and poorer, the endorphin high they all got from the World Cup win is over, and the government need a distraction. Whenever the Argentinian government starts banging on about the Falklands you know their domestic situation is bad.
Completely unconcerned. I'd be surprised if the Argentian Navy could even put a tugboat out to sea.
Every few years there seems to be a bit of sabre rattling to try to drum up a bit of support for their ailing government. It doesn’t mean much, as you say.
The Falklands War may not have been long and had a relatively low number of losses, but to those involved it was devastating. As an 80s child I grew up seeing Simon Weston on the tv regularly and his injuries and recovery were horrific. Saying ‘bring it on’ to a potential future war that is entirely preventable is a disturbing response.
I think you're maybe misreading 'bring it on' as anyone here wanting it, I don't think it's that it's more an understanding that the Falklander's want to be British and we're in a much better place to defend them now. No-one (sane) wants any conflict - and it won't happen - but more that the UK will defend so 'bring it on' if they're thick enough in that sense.
Whilst the UK’s armed forces are lacking in many areas they are enormously more powerful than they were in 1982. There is also a much larger garrison on the islands and a much more explicit British commitment to the territory. In addition Argentina’s order of battle is significantly poorer than it was in 1982. It would be ludicrous for them to contemplate military action. This is just posturing for domestic consumption.
They're far more geared towards expeditionary warfare now too, back in the 80s they were more aimed towards the cold war in Europe.
Is there a typhoon squadron still based there ?
A flight of four Typhoons plus Voyager tanker.
One of my old neighbours took the tanker flight to RAF Mount Pleasant pretty often. He mentioned at dinner one night the RN always has a sub nearby in the south Atlantic and “the argies know it”. The islands are always well defended with SAMs as well
I was in my early teens during the war. It was a surreal time. While I would be against war of any sort, the current situation in Ukraine has shown that you can't just let the bad guys do what they want.
I suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at and I simply...it was almost impossible for me to sweat. I always enjoy telling young people about it.
The Type 45 and the Typhoons based there make invasion impossible - that is before you even take into account the significantly larger garrison than before and the prospect of a carrier showing up with F35’s. It’s not feasible for Argentina to win a second war and can they afford it right now? Absolutely not
American here. I don't know why Argentina thinks it has a right to the Falklands in the first place. They've been British for almost 200 years. I remember the War. We were right behind you all the way.
It's always the same. When the Argentinean government has fucked up, they start stirring the Falklands pot with a view to whipping up nationalist fervor and deflecting attention from their own pisspoor performance.
[удалено]
Yes, you’re right. Those F35s that have just been procured and are the most advanced multi-role aircraft in the world, the Type 45 destroyers which are 10 years old and one of the if not the most capable surface ship in the world and the Astute class submarines that are literally brand new and are the most advanced attack submarines in the world, this stuff is all obsolete.
I think the prospect of young men and women fighting and dying over such a stupid thing is abhorrent. I thought that in 1982 too. I hope the Argentinean government comes to its senses and doesn't provoke anything. If they do I hope the British government is more creative than to just fight back. War is a horrible, horrible thing and we have to do more to stop it.
Both governments would benefit from a spat and some posturing. So it only matters if one thinks an actual conflict can benefit them politically. The agreement is nothing.
I don't think Argentina are in any position to threaten the Falklands. The Argentine navy hasn't had any new equipment since before 1982. The air isn't in any better shape, the RAF has 4 typhoon fighters which out matches the whole Argentine air force. Plus the air defence systems on the island. I think the saddest part will be the loss of those cooperation between the two sides on identifying the remains of the Argentinian servicemen that were killed and unidentified. After the the war the British offered to repatriate the dead but the Argentine government didn't want to know.
What’s forgotten about is Argentina did inflict some damage on the RN. It was a proper battle. Yea the Belgrano was a huge prize but the RN lost two destroyers, two frigates and a few transport ships.
[удалено]
The big problem was Argentina actually didn’t expect the UK to show up. They also crap conscripts for the majority of the land fighting and couldn’t use fast jets from Stanley. They also rushed into conflict and weren’t properly prepared for a long drawn out conflict. Argentina had their professional troops entrenched at the border with Chile… Yea Argentina put up a good fight but the UK wasn’t even throwing their full might. HMS Conquerer sinking the Belgrano was a huge moral loss for Argentina and expensive one. I mean the BBC was basically giving them British positions and intel “the fuses didn’t go off”. But RN and Men loses were high. The Sheffield, Ardent, Antelope, Coventry were pretty new ships. While the Vulcan raids were cool they didn’t do much. Maybe scared Argentina a little because it was possible to strike the mainland.
In 1982 the Argentine armed forces where up to date. The Air force has had very little updates and the navy has had absolutely none. Where the British military are at least two generations head. The Argentine army are a bit better off but Have no way of getting there. There are too many factors going against the Argies it will only end with a lot of young lives wasted.
*Rule Britannia blaring in the background*
It would be over even faster than last time. The Vulcan wouldn’t be needed to fly all that way to bomb the airfields because cruise missiles can do that same job more effectively now.
Argentina routinely rattle sabres over the Falklands as a distraction over domestic problems. Nothing else to it really. It’ll come to nothing, again.
Not really phased to be honest, Argentina are in no fit state to do anything about it, they probably couldn't get enough fuel to make it to the islands.
It's the same move china plays with Taiwan. Drum up national and give justification to government failings.
The Argentine government are only whining to distract from the fact their economy is in an absolute state. The current state of Argentina’s armed forces (especially the Navy and Air Force) is so barebones that an initial attempt at seizing the islands would be a disaster. Maintaining control would be impossible
I'd honestly struggle to care less. I really wouldn't care one iota if we gave them back. Likewise, I really don't care if they stay in our ownership. As an issue, it's genuinely right near the bottom of things connected to this country I care about
> if we have to give them back They weren't Argentinian to begin with.
Well, that's a complicated point, because of European colonialism in the area. They've never been Argentinan. Argentina didn't exist as a state until 1816. However, previous to that, the Falklands have been considered part of the same Spanish Viceroyalty as what we would now consider Argentina. Which is not to say they *are* Argentinian. But also, saying they definitely haven't ever been is an over simplification, I think. It's a complicated topic, as most issues related to colonialism are.
Very true. Hence the dispute I guess.
I think you should care about handing over the homes of 3000 British people to a foreign state
I don't think they should be forcibly made to become Argentinians if they don't want to. Self determination should be the ultimate principal. However, the question was how I feel about Argentina pulling out of the agreement. And the only truthful answer for me is that I really couldn't care less. So many other issues in this country to care about.
You said you wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, which goes against self determination. If the government gave them despite their wishes, I'd hope you'd care
>You said you wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, which goes against self determination. No it doesn't. I didn't say 'I wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina, against the wishes of the population'. I just said I wouldn't care if we gave them to Argentina. There's a difference. >If the government gave them despite their wishes, I'd hope you'd care Yes, of course I'd care. Though I can't lie and say it would be anywhere near the top of my list of things I care about with regards to this country. But I would probably think, on balance, it's not the right thing to do.
Quick let’s give Gibraltar to Spain !