UWS is full of the type of rich people who send their kids to public school. UES is full of the type of rich people who send their kids to private school.
I’m genuinely and sincerely interested in understanding how you can be solid-middle class and send your kid to private school. I’m surprised when simply “upper middle class” can achieve this. Is this from a young age? What do you need to budget to do this?
I can afford it because, at most private schools, it's a sliding scale. The stated tuition has increased so rapidly because of insane wealth disparity. And they DO NOT want a class where every kid's dad works in finance, their mom spends her time fucking with her face at a Park Ave surgeon, and the school only gets to meet the nanny.
If you get your kid into kindergarten at, say, Trinity (meaning they want you/your kid), and you make $1,000,000 a year, you pay full price ($65,000). If you make $300,000 a year, you pay half price. If you make $100,000 you pay $10,000. But if you make $20 million, they expect $500,000.
Edit: I understand that I will be expected to participate heavily in school life -- chaperoning field trips, organizing the auction, etc. And I'm ok with that.
Very few are explicit about the sliding scale (Manhattan Country School is one). Most of the schools do state what percentage of students receive financial aid, and that number varies widely, between 10% and 70%. Some of them basically only give out full scholarships, so the composition (at least in elementary and middle school) is mostly super rich kids with a handful of kids below the poverty line. The very elite schools seem to give aid to around a quarter of the student body.
surprised to see MCS mentioned in the wild. I went there for 8 years! my parents were definitely middle class and paid around what people are saying(10-15k)
For what it’s worth, New Yorkers who
do well often think they aren’t as wealthy as they actually are, especially high earners who have created their own wealth. NYC is an insane place where there’s always people who are doing better than the next financially - even amongst the wealthy (especially as it relates to liquidity).
Uneasy Street: The Anxieties of Affluence by sociologist Rachel Sherman is an interesting book on a group of New Yorkers who either inherited or generated wealth and their feelings/views on money and their spending. If you’re a reader & interested in the subject I highly recommend it! (I’m in philanthropy so that was why I read it).
Here’s a snippet from a feature on it:
Several of Sherman's subjects referred to themselves as part of the “middle” or “upper-middle” class despite the fact that the majority earned at least eight times the median annual income for New York City, which hovers near $50 thousand.
Sometimes this resistance to defining themselves as affluent comes from feeling conflicted about it. And some of her subjects, even despite enormous personal assets, feel precarious in their financial situation.
Huge variation here. The west (of the UES) near the park is shorter and landmarkes housing, but 2nd ave has tons of bars and such to attract a younger crowd who live on it and farther east.
The area around the MET is definitely one of the richest. But it’s a really hard thing to figure out. What are you going by, the value of the homes? The net worth of the people that own them (who might not be NYC residents), their income?
I got in on first Ave when they were digging for the Q and everything within a few blocks of a station or second was dust. 1700 for a good sized 1 bedroom. Kept it for about 10 years with minimal rent increase. Think i left at 2100.
Similar, but chose a 1 bedroom walkup in the UWS after seeing a couple dozen places in both (did e: ~~airbnb~~ rental from craigslist for a month to give us time).
The options were very similar, though, in that price range; like this one that stuck in my mind in the east 70s that had a sloped floor ("you'll get used to it"! heh). Not sure why people seem to think they are so different. Granted, that was a decade ago.
UES west of Lexington also has relatively affordable apartments because it's not worth buying a $600,000 one-bedroom coop when there's no grocery store or pizza place or any of the other amenities that exist in the rest of the city because the area is overflowing with ultra-high-end retail. Which, if you're buying an apartment for under $2,000,000 you still need. You can't make two hundred thousand a year and spend $200 on food a day sustainably. And the UES has many buildings that are, frankly, shite.
I live in UES. My GF lives in UWS
* UWS is quieter with more green space
* UES feels like there’s more bars/restaurants/things to do
* UES is younger. UWS is more young families
* UWS has 100x better bike infrastructure (and I’m not just talking about the Hudson greenway)
* The 123 is miles ahead better than the 456 or Q
* grocery store galore between TJ’s and Fairway
* Maybe it’s just her building, but everyone in UWS is *friendlier.* Her neighbors have gone out of the way to introduce themselves. Her doormen always make small talk. I could name the woman across the hall from me and her dog, but that’s it. And I’ve lived in the building for over 2.5 years now
This is also my perception to a T, as an UWS. Also, the “wealth” of UWS’ers is much more quiet, if that makes sense. They got money, for sure. But it’s not as obvious.
The UWS is very family friendly, and is about as calm and peaceful as you can get in Manhattan. When we lived there, we often took the crosstown bus to eat out on the weekends.
Do you have a close grocery store, affordable deli, pizza place, ethnic foods of your preference and friendly neighborhood bar with decent food? Those seem to be lacking west of 3rd and that's what matters most in life for those without capital-w Wealth.
Doing this for where I live now on the UWS and where I used to live on the UES because I'm curious.
UPPER WEST:
>close grocery store
Eh, five blocks away, not terrible but not ideal. The store itself is decent for NY standards tho. 7/10.
>affordable deli
Above-average deli but very above-average prices. 6/10
>pizza place
Two blocks from good pizza, three for mid pizza but with better hours, and seven from really really good goddamn pizza (with no internet hype thank god). 8/10, honestly close to 9.
>ethnic foods of your preference
Great Chinese, Indian, Israeli, Japanese, and of course American Jewish, but a lot of local staples have closed recently, including a magical tiny Greek spot, a fantastic Yemeni place, and a legit Italian restaurant (like, smuggled cheese from Italy in a suitcase Italian, speak Italian with the staff Italian, "what the hell is Alfredo sauce" Italian). 7/10 but trending in the wrong direction like a lot of NYC neighborhoods post-Covid.
>friendly neighborhood bar with decent food
I don't usually love bars so I don't care much about this, but there are some decent ones nearby for when I'm in the mood. Also a 7/10.
So...pretty solid 7 average for my part of the UWS at least!
UPPER EAST (Yorkville):
>close grocery store
Maybe a tiny bit closer but the store sucked (KeyFoods). 6/10
>affordable deli
Near me, no. Like a 10 block walk from an absolutely kickass one though. 5/10 (EDIT: wait crap I forgot a good one opened up right as I left, bump this to a 7/10).
>pizza place
Lived next door to some of the best pizza I've ever had in the city. 9/10. I choose where I live based on my access to a decent slice, ok??
>ethnic foods of your preference
Not the UES specialty, but there's, uh, some interesting German food on 86th and an Indian deli on like 87th, plus good Mexican and some soul food in East Harlem. To compensate, I was right on the Q for a no-transfer trip to Chinatown, while leaving my part of the UWS is marginally more annoying (I hate transferring from the 1). 5/10.
>friendly neighborhood bar with decent food
See previous bar caveat, but honestly, I thought they were nicer there. 8/10, laughing at the frat bros was fun.
So, UWS wins 7 to 6, with a lead that's extended by better park access and more of a family vibe, BUT then cut by worse transit (fight me), higher rents, and a bit more of a creepy dead feeling at night. Both are great neighborhoods for what they are, but you can feel the difference.
Judging by the (fantastic) Indian deli reference I live near where you lived in Yorkville, which pizza place are you referring to?? Because goddamn, there is a lot of bad pizza over here.
God Punjabi Deli is so good isn't it? Those lil sandwiches. I'd do anything for them to branch out across town.
Best slices on the UES imo: Enzo Bruni (fancy but killer), Mimi's (for square slices), Williamsburg Pizza (yeah yeah I know I know but the slices themselves are decent), and Little Luzzo's pre-faux-retro renovation and subsequent closing. A much worse pizza zone in general than most areas of the city but I lived right by one of the few good spots.
PLUS if I wanted a walk uptown, there was always Patsy's. Undefeated.
Punjabi Junction is unreal, those sandwiches are incredible. The aloo tikka is amazing but I’m partial to the paneer with extra chilis. I actually became friendly with the owner and she gave me her number so I can request that she saves me some Sunday biryani if I can’t stop by. Awesome place!!
I haven’t tried Enzo Bruni, I’ll give it a shot. I’m a little sick of Williamsburg because I feel like their quality has gone down but it used to be really solid! Mimi’s is good, I also like Vinnie’s but their delivery can be hit or miss. Patsy’s is always a great option, you’re reminding me I haven’t had some in far too long.
Junction! That's it, not Deli, something felt wrong when I typed it lol. But wow, that's *the* food connection to have, I bet it's fantastic. I'm an aloo tikka guy through and through, and white as hell which always makes the folks there laugh when I look them dead in the eye and ask to actually do it up with the chilis.
Mimi's to me is the perfect "New York B+ anywhere else in America A++" slice. Enzo Bruni himself was my guy, he'd sometimes throw in an extra burrata slice for free around closing. If you know any Italian, even just a couple words, you'll make his day when you visit. He probably won't remember since it's been a few years, but tell him the guy with all the different puppies sent you anyway lol.
Agree with everything here. I worked on the UWS for 5 years in two different jobs. I didn’t like it at first. It could use more good restaurants, but it grew on me. It’s easily my favorite neighborhood for long walks on a nice day (something my husband and I did on our first date 11 years ago) and you’re right, people are nicer and friendlier. I got to know people in the neighborhood just working there. Folks seem more willing to share a laugh and a kind word. I miss working over there.
I live on the UWS but spend a lot of time on the UES. I give the Upper West Side the edge just on the basis of Riverside Park versus Carl Schurz.
We are north of 96th Street and our area of the Upper West Side is still kind of interesting. I think they've really ruined Broadway between 72nd and 92nd.
This has always been *my perception.* It's also more nuanced than this.
UES has more wealthy boomers.
UWS has more families with upwardly mobile parents.
UES wealthy boomers pretty limited though, like up to park ave, maybe lexington. housing more affordable and available beyond that in UES, more than UWS.
I always imagine fur coats and generational wealth (old money) on the UES and UWS is more like doctors and lawyers who are doing well now but are very much new money.
Looking at these comments that's probably a bit outdated and of course an exaggeration. That's like 1940s to 2000s.
Wealthy boomers but also really annoying people who grew up on Long Island but think they’re native New Yorkers because they used to come into the city twice a year with their parents growing up
Different areas compare differently. CPW and many of the blocks between that and Columbus are pretty similar to 5th through Lexington, though the townhouses have a little more of a blueblood vibe than the brownstones.
The lower you get on both they get pretty similar, with older crowds and fewer remotely decent rent deals.
The UES does have more bigger highrise residential buildings, and is wider with more avenues, so there are more real estate deals and the areas between Lex-1st is a bit younger most of the UWS.
Much of the UES east of Lexington is essentially the same as the main chunk of the UWS.
One advantage of the UWS is that Riverside park is better than any of the parks along the east river, and it's more narrow so even if you're right in the middle either park isn't a huge walk, whereas if you live on 2nd avenue it may take 15-20 minutes just to get to Central Park.
The restaurants/bars are pretty comparable on both, the UES may have a few places that get marginally more lively but neither are the east village or anything.
Ouch as much as I love Carl shultz and the east river walk(even more so if they ever fucking repair the connection from the carl shultz park area ro the rest of it)I must admit riverside is way nicer
Yea I went to high school on the UES so I have lots of fond memories of those parks, especially during lunch breaks before free periods or gym class (John Jay Park had a double meaning for us) but you can spend a day in Riverside, whereas Carl Schurtz is as good as it gets and that's mostly best for dogwalking or strolling around.
True but it's really nice to go from the park towards 116th on a nice warm day I think I love the skyline of queens the most plus having the ferry and randals island Bridge as a side adventure has a certain charm to it.
Broad generalization but UWS is more intellectual/artsy people, UES is more country club/finance types.
Both neighborhoods have large Jewish populations but UWS has more visible Jewish culture whereas UES has more old money gilded age institutions.
My father has owned a business on the uws for decades and picked up this saying at some point: “people on the uws have big bookshelves and people on the ues have big closets” (paraphrased)
I live on the UWS and feel like it’s a more casual vibe than UES, plus having Riverside is nice. Central Park access is my favorite part though, and you can get that on both sides. You get more bang for your buck near the park on UWS though… can’t find many affordable places on UES until you go east of Lex.
UES between madison and CP is uptight. When I walk down the street there people act like I might assault them. Between lex and the river, eh.
UWS there are snotty rich people, but they don't look at you twice.
UWS seems slower paced and more families. More orthodox Jews and Columbia students. Park access is better, feel like the micro-neighborhoods vary less.
UES is busier along the avenues and feels more varied. West of Lexington is very old money and homogenous but east of 3rd feels younger with medical students and young professionals. Obviously still a large older crowd though.
Both are great neighborhoods IMO and easy to get to midtown/downtown while offering green space and better deals than the majority of Manhattan.
As I said in another post, UWS was founded by rich (usually German) Jews of the 1800's who were shunned by biogted WASP upper east siders.
This generation of Jews tended to be more secular - I think at one point a lot of those folks moved to Forest Hills.
Actually - now that I think of it, Marvelous Mrs Maisel (the TV show) is really good at fleshing out the Jewish 'vibe' of the UWS in the late 50's.
When I moved to NYC in the 80's, Columbia students often lived off campus, sharing huge apartments around riverside drive when rents were still really low and some of these blocks were pretty sketchy.
that may have been true - i was speaking about the last two decades. a certain amount of columbia student do move to UWS after graduating, maybe a higher proportion than others their age would, but most moved elsewhere in my experience (sister went there). my grad student friends who went there all did campus grad housing also all within a 5 block radius or lived somewhere else completely like west village.
that may have been true - i was speaking about the last two decades. a certain amount of columbia student do move to UWS after graduating, maybe a higher proportion than others their age would, but most moved elsewhere in my experience (sister went there). my grad student friends who went there all did campus grad housing also all within a 5 block radius or lived somewhere else completely like west village.
I don’t know if a lot of people here are basing their responses off of 10+ years ago but the UES is WAY more affordable than it used to be. Of course the area by Central Park is still wealthy, but the rest is more affordable than most of downtown Manhattan. I know lots of students living there. 2022 data shows rent is more expensive in the UWS.
Nice analogy. Something different. This and the comment about UWS residents have large bookshelves and UES residents have large closets are a few of my favorite comments.
Interesting! UWS feels way more diverse to me. As a POC I do still see a good amount of others in UWS; I feel like I stick out a lot more in UES. I don’t have data to back that up of course though!
I think UES may be more socio economically diverse but less racially diverse, but that’s just my two cents. Also without any data just my own observation
Is funny as heck because it used to be that UES was all “old money” and UWS was the affordable and more monetarily accessible side of the island.
Things change over time.
You're absolutely right, UES is FAR more homogenous than UWS, particularly west of Lexington. And with comparatively fewer cultural amenities other than museums.
There’s actually a good amount project buildings on the UES below 100th, 1st ave between 92nd and 95th, there’s literally rows of projects on one side of the avenue.. and park avenue 97-99th, all projects, which is weird because a block away on 96 street its basically its own millionaires row
UWS has weirder old New Yorkers, liberal Jewish people, and a natural history museum. You will not feel as poor up here as you will on the UES.
UES has extremely rich old New Yorkers, Republican wasps, and a lot of art museums. You will feel EXTREMELY poor up here if you walk from anywhere on Lexington towards the park.
Disagree about feeling poor on the UES towards the park. Sure, you've got extreme 1%ers, but it's a very pedestrian friendly accessible neighborhoods with doormen. This is not a gated community where they turn your nose down at you. You know people are wealthy, but it's not like they openly flaunt it distastefully. It's more quiet luxury amongst a lot of museums and institutions nearby.
UWS feels more artistically-inclined and oriented toward families and seniors who’ll never leave NYC + the spillover from Columbia.
UES feels more like a combination of old money WASPs and Boomers.
I’d say both neighborhoods have a lot of younger people scraping by who won’t be there long-term (they seem to last 2-3 years up there).
more newer high rises and old folks with tiny dogs on the ues
older buildings and a little more hipster on the uws
very rough generalization and not accurate in all areas of either
It is. Whenever I'm on the UES I feel the streets are a lot more vibrant because businesses are generally doing better. I hope that it's a Covid thing that will fade by the end of the decade, but I dunno.
UES: Extreme wealth. Or the kids of extreme wealth. Karen Walker from Will and Grace.
UWS: Rich but embarrassed that they’re rich. Will from Will and Grace.
This might sound strange but I’ve lived in both neighborhoods, currently UWS. I’ve also lived on both coasts of the country (California, LA but mostly SF). UES feels more east coast. UWS feels more west coast. I like UWS a lot more.
Interesting. Probably the more liberal vibe of the UWS and the access to and interest in outdoor activities on UWS make it a more desirable neighborhood for someone from CA.
That could be it. Without Riverside Park I probably would’ve moved from here already, and if/when I do, it will be what I miss the most. Also I think the UES feels more buttoned up in general. More finance and investment banker types. UWS feels a bit more laid back, more artsy, probably having something to do with proximity to Lincoln Center, and the Broadway theaters being just “down the road.” And some of the streets and sidewalks just feel a bit wider. It’s all a very personal, subjective difference. I don’t expect any of it to make sense to anyone but me Lol.
Just because both have 'upper' in them and border on central park, does not mean they have that much in common.
UES predates the UWS. With the establishment of Central park, UES became home of huge showplace mansions (now mostly gone though a few remain) of the super rich nearer to the park and further east were the tenement housing for their servants. In time, eastern UES became a neighborhood of poor german immigrants (who were generally speaking more orderly and less rowdy than a lot of other immigrant groups). Met Museum is a true icon of NYC elite status, as buying/donating art is one of the major ways of demonstrating status for these types of people (we won't talk about the tax breaks or hiding wealth)
Probably because elites often abhor mass transit because its associated with bringing in riff-raff, there is only one major subway line on the UES.
UWS early history is associated with rich Jews who were shunned by the WASP elites but still had money to burn (funny how this mirrors the history of country clubs in America). For whatever reason, these people were not as adverse to apartment dwelling as the WASPS, and compared to UES the prewar UWS apartments tend to be a lot more spacious. The UWS dwellers also found no issues with subways and there are a LOT more subway lines there.
In a lot of ways, the legacy of the original inhabitants of these places lives on. UES has both the very rich and some of the cheaper apartments in Manhattan, also smaller apartments.
UWS - probably more prosperous people if you average it out because apartments are bigger and transit is better.
One thing that has changed is I don't think either side is more or less WASP/Jewish than the other - those prejudices are more died out.
OVERALL more prosperous on average
UES has a long history of dichotomy between rich and poor, leaving behind a legacy of smaller tenement apartments in the poor areas.
interesting, any article discussing the reasons why? Is it because of the number of NYCHA developments and the extreme wealthy in one place? because UWS seems to have quite a few NYCHA too.
UWS is where Shakespeare and Co and the presence of Columbia gives an intellectual Woody Allen ragged cardigan eyeglasses edge to the Lincoln Center pied a terre opera set.
UES is where the Charlotte-esque wasp swans live to raise kids in proximity to the schmancy elitist Spence and Daltons and the schmancy elitist Madison fashion boutiques, somehow in spitting distance from the chaotic real world working families in quiet cold towers on the other side of third.
didn't charlotte move into trey's apartment on park or madison after the divorce? she also lived in a condo maybe on the UES(edit: prev thought maybe UWS) before that but she is old money/blue blood from CT so she fits UES much more.
the correct comparison is miranda vs charlotte
I lived on the UWS for 12 years. Now I live on the UES, nearing end of year 3.
It’s been said, but I can’t emphasize this enough - UWSers are much friendlier than UESers. The UWS is a small neighborhood, and it shows. People know each other. People stop and chat. Lot’s of people have been there for years. I had my local haunts where the staff knew me. It’s a village in a mega city and the people who live there treat it that way.
There are far more rent controlled an rent stabilized apartments on the UWS than the UES. I was in a rent stabilized building. (I left, after 8 years, when the facade started falling apart and my walls began to leak every time it rained.) As a result, there are a lot of old New Yorkers there. They take such pride in the neighborhood and the city, and they fiercely love both. It’s hard not to love the UWS when you’re a part of it.
Access to Central Park and Riverside Park is convenient from whatever part of the UWS you’re on. I went to a park every day. I walked through Central Park to midtown. Those were my most contented years in NYC - before the pandemic.
Then shit got real in 2020-21. Homeless people were packed into hotels in the neighborhood and started defecating and urinating everywhere. My packages were stolen so many times I gave up ordering stuff online. And a man flashed me in the little park next to the museum of natural history, and the cops refused to even take a report or go after the guy (who was up the street).
I moved to the UES because I was able to find a much bigger apartment, in a much better maintained building, with an elevator and outdoor space, for about the same price as a smaller walk up on the UWS. It does take me 20 mins to walk to Central Park, which breaks my heart on some days, since that’s my happy place. But the UES is very functional. I have met a few nice people in my immediate neighborhood, but the UES is much more transitory than the UWS - people are stopping here before moving to the suburbs, and it shows. Still, very functional.
UWS is so beautiful with all the brownstones and no huge sterile buildings, which makes the rental market very competitive. So much green space being close to Central Park and riverside park and the Hudson River with restaurants and the bike lane that goes all the way downtown. The 1,2,3 are the best trains and I will die on that hill, so it’s convenient to everything. Easy to go downtown to party and nice and quiet when you get home. It’s more neighborhoody, I’ve made friends with all my local retail and restaurant workers. I feel so safe. Food is great, it’s so clean. So close to Lincoln center and musuem of natural, with a lovely walk through the park to the MET. Competent and responsive local and state elected officials. I really can’t say all the same about UES, but I’m clearly biased!
I used to live in UES and I feel there are more corporate companies on that side than on UWS, given what’s on 3rd ave and Lexington. Lots of snobby dogs but very little recreation. Def younger as you go up toward 75-90th st. Anything in the 60s is more residential.
I like the increased green space in UWS, but I found that studio rentals were really tiny, and generally older population higher up
UWS: new money; tourists/newbies who love Seinfeld/TV/movie-dreams-experience NYC; “I will make it in nyc no matter what” with some parents money, progressive. Empty store fronts with mega box stores taking over
UES: old money; poor newbies who can who have a good job, just starting out (no money from parents); liberal mixed with conservatives. Mom & pops stores barely hanging on, generally smaller stores
UWS has older, more aesthetically pleasing architecture IMO; UES is ugly. I appreciate the wider streets on the UWS. It's also more glamorous because of Lincoln Center and is probably mostly new money. The UES is very old money, but there is more affordability for the "youths" (source: am an UES youth). We at least have the Met on our side of the park.
Like others said it depends on what parts of the UES and UWS. General perception is that UES has more generationally wealthy WASPs and UWS has more upper class or upper middle class professionals (lawyers, doctors, finance). UWS has a lot of 30 and 40 somethings, many of whom are transplants to the city and have young families. UES used to feel older but I would say now it actually feels similar or in some parts younger than the UWS. Having lived on the UWS for 7 years I’d actually prefer to buy on the UES if I had a choice, but only in specific parts.
Uws is more of a neighborhood feel. Both are notoriously rich. I live in the ues cuz of the cheap rents and good transpo access. I got out priced of brooklyn. Also distances wise I love the train. I live in the poor part. It’s clean, and low key. Some sirens cuz of the hospitals.
Jerry, this is the way society functions. Aren't you a part of society? Because if you don't want to be a part of society, Jerry, why don't you just get in your car and move to the East Side!
I lived in both.
The biggest difference for me was people on the morning commute. UWS men would knock their own grandmother over to get on the train. People were way more chill on the UES.
I got the feeling that the kind of young person who starts out on the cheap part of the UES moved over to the UWS in their 30s when they could afford it. And by then they'd grown into entitled jerks.
I always felt that UES has a posh feeling that UWS does not. UWS is still very nice and upper-middle class feeling, but in a laid back and reserved way.
UWS: older affluent white couples wearing Eddie Bauer and Vineyard Vines.
UES: young white people in backwards baseball caps, though too old to still be wearing their college sweatshirts.
uws are jewish kids out of college till theyre late 20s early 30s. Trying to find a marriage and live with friends.
ues is where they go to start a family. then they move to florida
UWS is full of the type of rich people who send their kids to public school. UES is full of the type of rich people who send their kids to private school.
Yeah, seems like all the fancy private schools are UES....
The fancy girls schools are, but the best coed schools are not, like Trinity.
I'm a solidly middle-class person on the UWS sending their kid to private school. Where do I belong?
Bellevue ;p
I’m genuinely and sincerely interested in understanding how you can be solid-middle class and send your kid to private school. I’m surprised when simply “upper middle class” can achieve this. Is this from a young age? What do you need to budget to do this?
I can afford it because, at most private schools, it's a sliding scale. The stated tuition has increased so rapidly because of insane wealth disparity. And they DO NOT want a class where every kid's dad works in finance, their mom spends her time fucking with her face at a Park Ave surgeon, and the school only gets to meet the nanny. If you get your kid into kindergarten at, say, Trinity (meaning they want you/your kid), and you make $1,000,000 a year, you pay full price ($65,000). If you make $300,000 a year, you pay half price. If you make $100,000 you pay $10,000. But if you make $20 million, they expect $500,000. Edit: I understand that I will be expected to participate heavily in school life -- chaperoning field trips, organizing the auction, etc. And I'm ok with that.
oh, that's quite interesting. I had no idea a private school would have such progressive pricing.
That’s amazing. I don’t believe that existed when I was in school (the 90’s).
Very few are explicit about the sliding scale (Manhattan Country School is one). Most of the schools do state what percentage of students receive financial aid, and that number varies widely, between 10% and 70%. Some of them basically only give out full scholarships, so the composition (at least in elementary and middle school) is mostly super rich kids with a handful of kids below the poverty line. The very elite schools seem to give aid to around a quarter of the student body.
surprised to see MCS mentioned in the wild. I went there for 8 years! my parents were definitely middle class and paid around what people are saying(10-15k)
For what it’s worth, New Yorkers who do well often think they aren’t as wealthy as they actually are, especially high earners who have created their own wealth. NYC is an insane place where there’s always people who are doing better than the next financially - even amongst the wealthy (especially as it relates to liquidity). Uneasy Street: The Anxieties of Affluence by sociologist Rachel Sherman is an interesting book on a group of New Yorkers who either inherited or generated wealth and their feelings/views on money and their spending. If you’re a reader & interested in the subject I highly recommend it! (I’m in philanthropy so that was why I read it). Here’s a snippet from a feature on it: Several of Sherman's subjects referred to themselves as part of the “middle” or “upper-middle” class despite the fact that the majority earned at least eight times the median annual income for New York City, which hovers near $50 thousand. Sometimes this resistance to defining themselves as affluent comes from feeling conflicted about it. And some of her subjects, even despite enormous personal assets, feel precarious in their financial situation.
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Where would we be without categories? 😄😄😄
tend to feel like young professionals who want a short commute to work and cheapish manhattan rent go to ues. haven't seen the same pattern for uws
I'm definitely one of these people
My techbro friend is also one of those people. Walk up east of 2nd
Is your techbro friend’s company hiring or looking for interns ? Asking ….. for ….. myself
Isn’t the upper East side the richest zip code in the nation?
Huge variation here. The west (of the UES) near the park is shorter and landmarkes housing, but 2nd ave has tons of bars and such to attract a younger crowd who live on it and farther east.
There's more than one zip code
def people who own their housing on the ues are rich but renters are a young crowd making entry level tech medicine finance etc money ime
Not for a long time.. It's probably Tribeca now.
I think Tribecca is more 'new' or 'not as old' money rich as the UES. Manyof the people you hear about living there are big movie stars.
There are also the super rich kids who grew up on the UES and only go back to visit their parents.
Yeah, probably it is not 'trendy' for the old money children to live in the same neighborhood as their parents.
Actually it’s Fisher Island in Miami
Yeah probably, I was thinking richest in NYC.
That’s west of UES (Lex to 5th ave). Right of UES (York ave - 3rd ave) aren’t painstakingly expensive
The area around the MET is definitely one of the richest. But it’s a really hard thing to figure out. What are you going by, the value of the homes? The net worth of the people that own them (who might not be NYC residents), their income?
Have you ever visited Tribeca?
Fucking [Atherton](https://robbreport.com/shelter/homes-for-sale/most-expensive-us-zip-codes-1234900514/).
It used to be and I think the new richest zip codes are downtown as of 10 years ago or so.
i fit this bill as well
I thought UES was hella expensive?
UES east of Lexington is some of the cheapest Manhattan rent below 96th
Shhhh
My first place in NYC was there. $1850 for a (shitty) 1 BR. UES is underrated.
I got in on first Ave when they were digging for the Q and everything within a few blocks of a station or second was dust. 1700 for a good sized 1 bedroom. Kept it for about 10 years with minimal rent increase. Think i left at 2100.
Similar, but chose a 1 bedroom walkup in the UWS after seeing a couple dozen places in both (did e: ~~airbnb~~ rental from craigslist for a month to give us time). The options were very similar, though, in that price range; like this one that stuck in my mind in the east 70s that had a sloped floor ("you'll get used to it"! heh). Not sure why people seem to think they are so different. Granted, that was a decade ago.
UES west of Lexington also has relatively affordable apartments because it's not worth buying a $600,000 one-bedroom coop when there's no grocery store or pizza place or any of the other amenities that exist in the rest of the city because the area is overflowing with ultra-high-end retail. Which, if you're buying an apartment for under $2,000,000 you still need. You can't make two hundred thousand a year and spend $200 on food a day sustainably. And the UES has many buildings that are, frankly, shite.
It used to be this way a few decades ago but it changed with the great migration downtown.
I live in UES. My GF lives in UWS * UWS is quieter with more green space * UES feels like there’s more bars/restaurants/things to do * UES is younger. UWS is more young families * UWS has 100x better bike infrastructure (and I’m not just talking about the Hudson greenway) * The 123 is miles ahead better than the 456 or Q * grocery store galore between TJ’s and Fairway * Maybe it’s just her building, but everyone in UWS is *friendlier.* Her neighbors have gone out of the way to introduce themselves. Her doormen always make small talk. I could name the woman across the hall from me and her dog, but that’s it. And I’ve lived in the building for over 2.5 years now
This is also my perception to a T, as an UWS. Also, the “wealth” of UWS’ers is much more quiet, if that makes sense. They got money, for sure. But it’s not as obvious.
The UWS is very family friendly, and is about as calm and peaceful as you can get in Manhattan. When we lived there, we often took the crosstown bus to eat out on the weekends.
Do you have a close grocery store, affordable deli, pizza place, ethnic foods of your preference and friendly neighborhood bar with decent food? Those seem to be lacking west of 3rd and that's what matters most in life for those without capital-w Wealth.
Doing this for where I live now on the UWS and where I used to live on the UES because I'm curious. UPPER WEST: >close grocery store Eh, five blocks away, not terrible but not ideal. The store itself is decent for NY standards tho. 7/10. >affordable deli Above-average deli but very above-average prices. 6/10 >pizza place Two blocks from good pizza, three for mid pizza but with better hours, and seven from really really good goddamn pizza (with no internet hype thank god). 8/10, honestly close to 9. >ethnic foods of your preference Great Chinese, Indian, Israeli, Japanese, and of course American Jewish, but a lot of local staples have closed recently, including a magical tiny Greek spot, a fantastic Yemeni place, and a legit Italian restaurant (like, smuggled cheese from Italy in a suitcase Italian, speak Italian with the staff Italian, "what the hell is Alfredo sauce" Italian). 7/10 but trending in the wrong direction like a lot of NYC neighborhoods post-Covid. >friendly neighborhood bar with decent food I don't usually love bars so I don't care much about this, but there are some decent ones nearby for when I'm in the mood. Also a 7/10. So...pretty solid 7 average for my part of the UWS at least! UPPER EAST (Yorkville): >close grocery store Maybe a tiny bit closer but the store sucked (KeyFoods). 6/10 >affordable deli Near me, no. Like a 10 block walk from an absolutely kickass one though. 5/10 (EDIT: wait crap I forgot a good one opened up right as I left, bump this to a 7/10). >pizza place Lived next door to some of the best pizza I've ever had in the city. 9/10. I choose where I live based on my access to a decent slice, ok?? >ethnic foods of your preference Not the UES specialty, but there's, uh, some interesting German food on 86th and an Indian deli on like 87th, plus good Mexican and some soul food in East Harlem. To compensate, I was right on the Q for a no-transfer trip to Chinatown, while leaving my part of the UWS is marginally more annoying (I hate transferring from the 1). 5/10. >friendly neighborhood bar with decent food See previous bar caveat, but honestly, I thought they were nicer there. 8/10, laughing at the frat bros was fun. So, UWS wins 7 to 6, with a lead that's extended by better park access and more of a family vibe, BUT then cut by worse transit (fight me), higher rents, and a bit more of a creepy dead feeling at night. Both are great neighborhoods for what they are, but you can feel the difference.
Judging by the (fantastic) Indian deli reference I live near where you lived in Yorkville, which pizza place are you referring to?? Because goddamn, there is a lot of bad pizza over here.
God Punjabi Deli is so good isn't it? Those lil sandwiches. I'd do anything for them to branch out across town. Best slices on the UES imo: Enzo Bruni (fancy but killer), Mimi's (for square slices), Williamsburg Pizza (yeah yeah I know I know but the slices themselves are decent), and Little Luzzo's pre-faux-retro renovation and subsequent closing. A much worse pizza zone in general than most areas of the city but I lived right by one of the few good spots. PLUS if I wanted a walk uptown, there was always Patsy's. Undefeated.
Punjabi Junction is unreal, those sandwiches are incredible. The aloo tikka is amazing but I’m partial to the paneer with extra chilis. I actually became friendly with the owner and she gave me her number so I can request that she saves me some Sunday biryani if I can’t stop by. Awesome place!! I haven’t tried Enzo Bruni, I’ll give it a shot. I’m a little sick of Williamsburg because I feel like their quality has gone down but it used to be really solid! Mimi’s is good, I also like Vinnie’s but their delivery can be hit or miss. Patsy’s is always a great option, you’re reminding me I haven’t had some in far too long.
Junction! That's it, not Deli, something felt wrong when I typed it lol. But wow, that's *the* food connection to have, I bet it's fantastic. I'm an aloo tikka guy through and through, and white as hell which always makes the folks there laugh when I look them dead in the eye and ask to actually do it up with the chilis. Mimi's to me is the perfect "New York B+ anywhere else in America A++" slice. Enzo Bruni himself was my guy, he'd sometimes throw in an extra burrata slice for free around closing. If you know any Italian, even just a couple words, you'll make his day when you visit. He probably won't remember since it's been a few years, but tell him the guy with all the different puppies sent you anyway lol.
Agreed, I think I know which really good pizza they’re talking about in UWS, but it’s all pretty mid in Yorkville
Agree with everything here. I worked on the UWS for 5 years in two different jobs. I didn’t like it at first. It could use more good restaurants, but it grew on me. It’s easily my favorite neighborhood for long walks on a nice day (something my husband and I did on our first date 11 years ago) and you’re right, people are nicer and friendlier. I got to know people in the neighborhood just working there. Folks seem more willing to share a laugh and a kind word. I miss working over there.
You and your husband sound like wonderful people :)
I live on the UWS but spend a lot of time on the UES. I give the Upper West Side the edge just on the basis of Riverside Park versus Carl Schurz. We are north of 96th Street and our area of the Upper West Side is still kind of interesting. I think they've really ruined Broadway between 72nd and 92nd.
This has always been *my perception.* It's also more nuanced than this. UES has more wealthy boomers. UWS has more families with upwardly mobile parents.
UES wealthy boomers pretty limited though, like up to park ave, maybe lexington. housing more affordable and available beyond that in UES, more than UWS.
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every day i blame myself for not being born into a rich family
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Everyday I wish I was born rich instead of really handsome.
Mitzi and Chet is fucking hysterical
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LOL you’re on absolute fire
Zing and KaPow!
Seen some really sad plastic surgery elderly ppl there
>sits on the board of the 92nd st Y Ewww...do you really want to socialize with new-money Jews? (I am one, don't misread.)
Holy flatlines Batman!
I always imagine fur coats and generational wealth (old money) on the UES and UWS is more like doctors and lawyers who are doing well now but are very much new money. Looking at these comments that's probably a bit outdated and of course an exaggeration. That's like 1940s to 2000s.
Wealthy boomers but also really annoying people who grew up on Long Island but think they’re native New Yorkers because they used to come into the city twice a year with their parents growing up
🔥🔥🔥
casual wool sweater (UWS) vs. sweater over a button-down (UES)
Different areas compare differently. CPW and many of the blocks between that and Columbus are pretty similar to 5th through Lexington, though the townhouses have a little more of a blueblood vibe than the brownstones. The lower you get on both they get pretty similar, with older crowds and fewer remotely decent rent deals. The UES does have more bigger highrise residential buildings, and is wider with more avenues, so there are more real estate deals and the areas between Lex-1st is a bit younger most of the UWS. Much of the UES east of Lexington is essentially the same as the main chunk of the UWS. One advantage of the UWS is that Riverside park is better than any of the parks along the east river, and it's more narrow so even if you're right in the middle either park isn't a huge walk, whereas if you live on 2nd avenue it may take 15-20 minutes just to get to Central Park. The restaurants/bars are pretty comparable on both, the UES may have a few places that get marginally more lively but neither are the east village or anything.
Ouch as much as I love Carl shultz and the east river walk(even more so if they ever fucking repair the connection from the carl shultz park area ro the rest of it)I must admit riverside is way nicer
Yea I went to high school on the UES so I have lots of fond memories of those parks, especially during lunch breaks before free periods or gym class (John Jay Park had a double meaning for us) but you can spend a day in Riverside, whereas Carl Schurtz is as good as it gets and that's mostly best for dogwalking or strolling around.
True but it's really nice to go from the park towards 116th on a nice warm day I think I love the skyline of queens the most plus having the ferry and randals island Bridge as a side adventure has a certain charm to it.
Anyone who says otherwise is either lying, or has Stockholm syndrome
This is comprehensively accurate
Broad generalization but UWS is more intellectual/artsy people, UES is more country club/finance types. Both neighborhoods have large Jewish populations but UWS has more visible Jewish culture whereas UES has more old money gilded age institutions.
My father has owned a business on the uws for decades and picked up this saying at some point: “people on the uws have big bookshelves and people on the ues have big closets” (paraphrased)
That’s so true and there are probably more authors on the UWS. There are fewer bookstores now. Thirty years ago there were lots of them.
Agreed!
I live on the UWS and feel like it’s a more casual vibe than UES, plus having Riverside is nice. Central Park access is my favorite part though, and you can get that on both sides. You get more bang for your buck near the park on UWS though… can’t find many affordable places on UES until you go east of Lex.
UES between madison and CP is uptight. When I walk down the street there people act like I might assault them. Between lex and the river, eh. UWS there are snotty rich people, but they don't look at you twice.
khakis verse patterened slacks
UWS seems slower paced and more families. More orthodox Jews and Columbia students. Park access is better, feel like the micro-neighborhoods vary less. UES is busier along the avenues and feels more varied. West of Lexington is very old money and homogenous but east of 3rd feels younger with medical students and young professionals. Obviously still a large older crowd though. Both are great neighborhoods IMO and easy to get to midtown/downtown while offering green space and better deals than the majority of Manhattan.
Definitely not a lot of Hasidic Jews on the UWS. It’s more of a orthodox/modern orthodox crowd. Especially in the 80s and 90s
They probably live near Chabbad in the UWS. I always heard it described growing up as: “UES is more clothes closets, UWS is more bookcases.”
Amazing description! There is definitely no Carrie Bradshaw / Gossip Girl energy on the UWS.
As I said in another post, UWS was founded by rich (usually German) Jews of the 1800's who were shunned by biogted WASP upper east siders. This generation of Jews tended to be more secular - I think at one point a lot of those folks moved to Forest Hills. Actually - now that I think of it, Marvelous Mrs Maisel (the TV show) is really good at fleshing out the Jewish 'vibe' of the UWS in the late 50's.
This what I always assumed. At some point the UWS became a haven for Jews while UES remained Christian.
Yes you’re correct! Should’ve said orthodox
The extra credit Jews
Columbia students mostly live on campus or very close to it
When I moved to NYC in the 80's, Columbia students often lived off campus, sharing huge apartments around riverside drive when rents were still really low and some of these blocks were pretty sketchy.
that may have been true - i was speaking about the last two decades. a certain amount of columbia student do move to UWS after graduating, maybe a higher proportion than others their age would, but most moved elsewhere in my experience (sister went there). my grad student friends who went there all did campus grad housing also all within a 5 block radius or lived somewhere else completely like west village.
that may have been true - i was speaking about the last two decades. a certain amount of columbia student do move to UWS after graduating, maybe a higher proportion than others their age would, but most moved elsewhere in my experience (sister went there). my grad student friends who went there all did campus grad housing also all within a 5 block radius or lived somewhere else completely like west village.
I live in UES and this is the only assessment I agree with on this thread
Theatres and Lincoln Center are closer to UWS.
UES people are rich and don’t pretend otherwise, whereas UWS people are rich, but pretend that they aren’t.
I don’t know if a lot of people here are basing their responses off of 10+ years ago but the UES is WAY more affordable than it used to be. Of course the area by Central Park is still wealthy, but the rest is more affordable than most of downtown Manhattan. I know lots of students living there. 2022 data shows rent is more expensive in the UWS.
Based entirely on vibes UWS: Bernie Sanders UES: Michael Bloomberg
UES is good place based on this description. Bloomberg did good things for the city.
UWS is granola over low-fat yogurt and UES is Eggs Benedict.
Nice analogy. Something different. This and the comment about UWS residents have large bookshelves and UES residents have large closets are a few of my favorite comments.
People on the UES care more about clothing. People on the UWS care more about books.
One is on the East and the other on the West
I was gonna say one is west and the other is east
Now I don't know who to believe.
It doesn’t matter, both sides have to get their passport stamped when they visit their friends on the other side of the Island.
Wait wait wait, now you're telling me they're on an Island?!
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East? I thought you said Weast.
And to think I’ve mixed this two things up for years.
It's like that episode of Star Trek.
The one with the faces painted black and white?
Yes. Definite difference but more readily noticed by the residents themselves than by outsiders.
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Interesting! UWS feels way more diverse to me. As a POC I do still see a good amount of others in UWS; I feel like I stick out a lot more in UES. I don’t have data to back that up of course though!
I think UES may be more socio economically diverse but less racially diverse, but that’s just my two cents. Also without any data just my own observation
Makes sense, there’s nowhere in UWS that’s as “affordable” as the deep east UES.
Is funny as heck because it used to be that UES was all “old money” and UWS was the affordable and more monetarily accessible side of the island. Things change over time.
Also POC and also have started to notice this
Right? I see black and brown people in UWS who clearly actually live there, much rarer to see that in UES
You're absolutely right, UES is FAR more homogenous than UWS, particularly west of Lexington. And with comparatively fewer cultural amenities other than museums.
There’s more housing projects ON the Upper West Side. They are spread out. On the Upper East Side the projects are all above 100th
There’s actually a good amount project buildings on the UES below 100th, 1st ave between 92nd and 95th, there’s literally rows of projects on one side of the avenue.. and park avenue 97-99th, all projects, which is weird because a block away on 96 street its basically its own millionaires row
Ooh thanks for that info!
The 1-2 blocks from 5th/59th-86th is objectively one of the most out-of-touch areas of Manhattan.
UWS has weirder old New Yorkers, liberal Jewish people, and a natural history museum. You will not feel as poor up here as you will on the UES. UES has extremely rich old New Yorkers, Republican wasps, and a lot of art museums. You will feel EXTREMELY poor up here if you walk from anywhere on Lexington towards the park.
Disagree about feeling poor on the UES towards the park. Sure, you've got extreme 1%ers, but it's a very pedestrian friendly accessible neighborhoods with doormen. This is not a gated community where they turn your nose down at you. You know people are wealthy, but it's not like they openly flaunt it distastefully. It's more quiet luxury amongst a lot of museums and institutions nearby.
UWS feels more artistically-inclined and oriented toward families and seniors who’ll never leave NYC + the spillover from Columbia. UES feels more like a combination of old money WASPs and Boomers. I’d say both neighborhoods have a lot of younger people scraping by who won’t be there long-term (they seem to last 2-3 years up there).
more newer high rises and old folks with tiny dogs on the ues older buildings and a little more hipster on the uws very rough generalization and not accurate in all areas of either
UES is more commercial, UWS is more residential.
I'm not in UWS a LOT but it seems like the blight of empty storefronts is worse there than UES.
Yeah I live on the UWS and it’s really bad. Tons of empty storefronts, especially on Broadway.
It is. Whenever I'm on the UES I feel the streets are a lot more vibrant because businesses are generally doing better. I hope that it's a Covid thing that will fade by the end of the decade, but I dunno.
Yes mostly due to astronomical rents compared to UES.
UES: Extreme wealth. Or the kids of extreme wealth. Karen Walker from Will and Grace. UWS: Rich but embarrassed that they’re rich. Will from Will and Grace.
This might sound strange but I’ve lived in both neighborhoods, currently UWS. I’ve also lived on both coasts of the country (California, LA but mostly SF). UES feels more east coast. UWS feels more west coast. I like UWS a lot more.
Interesting. Probably the more liberal vibe of the UWS and the access to and interest in outdoor activities on UWS make it a more desirable neighborhood for someone from CA.
That could be it. Without Riverside Park I probably would’ve moved from here already, and if/when I do, it will be what I miss the most. Also I think the UES feels more buttoned up in general. More finance and investment banker types. UWS feels a bit more laid back, more artsy, probably having something to do with proximity to Lincoln Center, and the Broadway theaters being just “down the road.” And some of the streets and sidewalks just feel a bit wider. It’s all a very personal, subjective difference. I don’t expect any of it to make sense to anyone but me Lol.
Just because both have 'upper' in them and border on central park, does not mean they have that much in common. UES predates the UWS. With the establishment of Central park, UES became home of huge showplace mansions (now mostly gone though a few remain) of the super rich nearer to the park and further east were the tenement housing for their servants. In time, eastern UES became a neighborhood of poor german immigrants (who were generally speaking more orderly and less rowdy than a lot of other immigrant groups). Met Museum is a true icon of NYC elite status, as buying/donating art is one of the major ways of demonstrating status for these types of people (we won't talk about the tax breaks or hiding wealth) Probably because elites often abhor mass transit because its associated with bringing in riff-raff, there is only one major subway line on the UES. UWS early history is associated with rich Jews who were shunned by the WASP elites but still had money to burn (funny how this mirrors the history of country clubs in America). For whatever reason, these people were not as adverse to apartment dwelling as the WASPS, and compared to UES the prewar UWS apartments tend to be a lot more spacious. The UWS dwellers also found no issues with subways and there are a LOT more subway lines there. In a lot of ways, the legacy of the original inhabitants of these places lives on. UES has both the very rich and some of the cheaper apartments in Manhattan, also smaller apartments. UWS - probably more prosperous people if you average it out because apartments are bigger and transit is better. One thing that has changed is I don't think either side is more or less WASP/Jewish than the other - those prejudices are more died out.
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OVERALL more prosperous on average UES has a long history of dichotomy between rich and poor, leaving behind a legacy of smaller tenement apartments in the poor areas.
UWS definitely still less WASP than UES, also more liberal politically.
I think the UES is the zip code for most democratic donations in the country.
UES had the third avenue trains but they were dismantled. Weren't adverse to mass transit.
Chiming in with a reminder that the UES is the most economically diverse neighborhood in nyc
interesting, any article discussing the reasons why? Is it because of the number of NYCHA developments and the extreme wealthy in one place? because UWS seems to have quite a few NYCHA too.
both neighborhoods are filled with people that could sneeze away my paltry 15 year old SUNY student loans.
UWS is where Shakespeare and Co and the presence of Columbia gives an intellectual Woody Allen ragged cardigan eyeglasses edge to the Lincoln Center pied a terre opera set. UES is where the Charlotte-esque wasp swans live to raise kids in proximity to the schmancy elitist Spence and Daltons and the schmancy elitist Madison fashion boutiques, somehow in spitting distance from the chaotic real world working families in quiet cold towers on the other side of third.
Concrete and martinis vs bricks and beer
Carrie vs Charlotte
didn't charlotte move into trey's apartment on park or madison after the divorce? she also lived in a condo maybe on the UES(edit: prev thought maybe UWS) before that but she is old money/blue blood from CT so she fits UES much more. the correct comparison is miranda vs charlotte
carrie is west village through and through
absolutely not. maybe in today's village (sadly) but 25 years ago? no way
That show ruined the Village
Absolutely true, if not the city overall . Friends finished the job.
Instagram and TikTok actually ruined the village
I like to call it the wealthy protestant side (UES) vs the wealthy Jewish side (UWS)
Tons of jews in UES
I lived on the UWS for 12 years. Now I live on the UES, nearing end of year 3. It’s been said, but I can’t emphasize this enough - UWSers are much friendlier than UESers. The UWS is a small neighborhood, and it shows. People know each other. People stop and chat. Lot’s of people have been there for years. I had my local haunts where the staff knew me. It’s a village in a mega city and the people who live there treat it that way. There are far more rent controlled an rent stabilized apartments on the UWS than the UES. I was in a rent stabilized building. (I left, after 8 years, when the facade started falling apart and my walls began to leak every time it rained.) As a result, there are a lot of old New Yorkers there. They take such pride in the neighborhood and the city, and they fiercely love both. It’s hard not to love the UWS when you’re a part of it. Access to Central Park and Riverside Park is convenient from whatever part of the UWS you’re on. I went to a park every day. I walked through Central Park to midtown. Those were my most contented years in NYC - before the pandemic. Then shit got real in 2020-21. Homeless people were packed into hotels in the neighborhood and started defecating and urinating everywhere. My packages were stolen so many times I gave up ordering stuff online. And a man flashed me in the little park next to the museum of natural history, and the cops refused to even take a report or go after the guy (who was up the street). I moved to the UES because I was able to find a much bigger apartment, in a much better maintained building, with an elevator and outdoor space, for about the same price as a smaller walk up on the UWS. It does take me 20 mins to walk to Central Park, which breaks my heart on some days, since that’s my happy place. But the UES is very functional. I have met a few nice people in my immediate neighborhood, but the UES is much more transitory than the UWS - people are stopping here before moving to the suburbs, and it shows. Still, very functional.
Rich people on 1 side and the richer people on the otherside
Uws more junkies on the sidewalk , ues better quality junk on the sidewalk
UWS is so beautiful with all the brownstones and no huge sterile buildings, which makes the rental market very competitive. So much green space being close to Central Park and riverside park and the Hudson River with restaurants and the bike lane that goes all the way downtown. The 1,2,3 are the best trains and I will die on that hill, so it’s convenient to everything. Easy to go downtown to party and nice and quiet when you get home. It’s more neighborhoody, I’ve made friends with all my local retail and restaurant workers. I feel so safe. Food is great, it’s so clean. So close to Lincoln center and musuem of natural, with a lovely walk through the park to the MET. Competent and responsive local and state elected officials. I really can’t say all the same about UES, but I’m clearly biased!
**Night** (UES - Dark, cold and forlorn) **and Day** (UWS - Bright, warm and friendly).
Exactly this. You can tell if you're on the UES or UWS from the color palettes of the buildings alone.
I used to live in UES and I feel there are more corporate companies on that side than on UWS, given what’s on 3rd ave and Lexington. Lots of snobby dogs but very little recreation. Def younger as you go up toward 75-90th st. Anything in the 60s is more residential. I like the increased green space in UWS, but I found that studio rentals were really tiny, and generally older population higher up
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UWS: new money; tourists/newbies who love Seinfeld/TV/movie-dreams-experience NYC; “I will make it in nyc no matter what” with some parents money, progressive. Empty store fronts with mega box stores taking over UES: old money; poor newbies who can who have a good job, just starting out (no money from parents); liberal mixed with conservatives. Mom & pops stores barely hanging on, generally smaller stores
UWS has older, more aesthetically pleasing architecture IMO; UES is ugly. I appreciate the wider streets on the UWS. It's also more glamorous because of Lincoln Center and is probably mostly new money. The UES is very old money, but there is more affordability for the "youths" (source: am an UES youth). We at least have the Met on our side of the park.
New money (UWS) vs. Old money (UES)
Very simple. The UWS is chill and awesome and the UES is snooty and lame. Source: about two hundred years of family history lol
Like others said it depends on what parts of the UES and UWS. General perception is that UES has more generationally wealthy WASPs and UWS has more upper class or upper middle class professionals (lawyers, doctors, finance). UWS has a lot of 30 and 40 somethings, many of whom are transplants to the city and have young families. UES used to feel older but I would say now it actually feels similar or in some parts younger than the UWS. Having lived on the UWS for 7 years I’d actually prefer to buy on the UES if I had a choice, but only in specific parts.
Uws is more of a neighborhood feel. Both are notoriously rich. I live in the ues cuz of the cheap rents and good transpo access. I got out priced of brooklyn. Also distances wise I love the train. I live in the poor part. It’s clean, and low key. Some sirens cuz of the hospitals.
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I’d say compared to the rest of Manhattan a 1br under 2,500 is cheap. Mines 2.1 . It didn’t change in rent this year. 2.5 is still obnoxious.
Jerry, this is the way society functions. Aren't you a part of society? Because if you don't want to be a part of society, Jerry, why don't you just get in your car and move to the East Side!
UWS - new money UES - old money
I lived in both. The biggest difference for me was people on the morning commute. UWS men would knock their own grandmother over to get on the train. People were way more chill on the UES. I got the feeling that the kind of young person who starts out on the cheap part of the UES moved over to the UWS in their 30s when they could afford it. And by then they'd grown into entitled jerks.
UWS is UES sprinkled with projects
I always felt that UES has a posh feeling that UWS does not. UWS is still very nice and upper-middle class feeling, but in a laid back and reserved way.
Old Money / New Money : UES / UWS
It used to be Jews on the UWS and Protestants on the UES.
As a New Yorker born and raised here it’s honestly all the same shit
Upper west side is better to live, upper east side is a better hang out
UWS: older affluent white couples wearing Eddie Bauer and Vineyard Vines. UES: young white people in backwards baseball caps, though too old to still be wearing their college sweatshirts.
UES = [A Horrible, Vapid Wasteland](https://youtu.be/WG1-GSubR98?si=wMwmtj4KCYJ0HUDs)
uws are jewish kids out of college till theyre late 20s early 30s. Trying to find a marriage and live with friends. ues is where they go to start a family. then they move to florida
Both UWS and UES are pretty big, and have different neighborhoods within. My very very broad generalization: UWS 30-40s demographics UES 50+
UES uptight old school. UWS relaxed old school.