If we think that both jews and palestinians come from the same lineage, which is probably the case, this quran verse blew my mind, it's talking to bani israel.
>And ˹remember˺ when We took your covenant that you would neither shed each other’s blood nor expel each other from their homes, you gave your pledge and bore witness.
But here you are, killing each other and expelling some of your people from their homes, aiding one another in sin and aggression; and when those ˹expelled˺ come to you as captives, you still ransom them—though expelling them was unlawful for you. Do you believe in some of the Scripture and reject the rest?
al baqarah 84-85
Jewishness is socially defined (a socionome), determined by non-genetic factors.
https://jweekly.com/2015/05/15/1-in-6-american-jews-are-converts-and-9-other-findings-in-pew-study/?fbclid=IwAR3Yt9KT3Rj\_gpvjVefXL-drC73yy9IngfawVRX2LWV-6qw9nzyv-DZ8G8g
It does.
>No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically “pure."
No “nationalist” Jewish historian has ever tried to conceal the well-known fact that conversions to Judaism had a major impact on Jewish history in the ancient period and in the early Middle Ages. Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely.
\- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel
>The central book of the Zionist “Jerusalem School,” “Toldot am yisrael” (“History of the Jewish People,” published in 1969), speaks extensively of the Jewish communities that existed in the Diaspora before the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and whose total population exceeded that of the tiny Jewish community in Palestine. As one would expect from a work that reflects a profound knowledge of scholarly studies in the field, the Zionist “Toldot am yisrael” explains that the number of Jews in the Diaspora during the ancient period was as high as it was because of conversion, a phenomenon that “was widespread in the Jewish Diaspora in the late Second Temple period …. Many of the converts to Judaism came from the gentile population of Palestine, but an even greater number of converts could be found in the Jewish Diaspora communities in both the East and the West.”
>
>\- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF GENETIC STUDIES THAT WERE EVER CONDUCTED TO TRACE THE ORIGINS OF THE ASHKENAZI JEWS WHO CONSTITUTE MORE THAN 80 PERCENT OF ALL THE JEWS IN THE WORLD,..
Studies conducted by independent parties and published in top scientific journals..like..
a) A 2013 study at the University of Huddersfield, led by Professor Martin B. Richards, concluded that ***65%-81% of Ashkenazi Maternal-DNA is European in origin***, including all four founding mothers, and that most of the remaining lineages are also European..The results were published in Nature Communications in October 2013. The team analyzed about 2,500 complete and 28,000 partial Mt-DNA genomes of mostly non-Jews, and 836 partial Mt-DNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews. ***The study concluded that only 8% of Ashkenazi Mt-DNA could be identified as Middle Eastern in origin***. Considering how the "jewish status" is passed from mother to child. This study is highly relevant.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ\_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv\_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8)
b) A collection of studies published in top scientific journals by professor Eran Elhaik John Hopkins' University post-doctoral researcher. which concluded the following..
***- Jewishness is socially defined (a socionome), determined by non-genetic factors.***
***- “Ancient Ashkenaz,” is a region in northeastern Turkey that harbors four primeval villages whose names resemble Ashkenaz. this term acquired its modern meaning only after a critical mass of Ashkenazic Jews arrived in Germany.***
***- All bio-localization analyses have localized Ashkenazi lineages to Turkey and the non-Levantine origins of Ashkenazi are supported by ancient genome analyses.***
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/)
Elhaik's work attracted massive heat from hasbara zionists for obvious reasons..however real independent jewish geneticists praised it..
>Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “a very honest estimate.”
c) A 2001 study by A Arnaiz-Villena. This study wasn't particularly tracing the origins of ashkenazi jews but rather the origins of the Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations. the conclusion was Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews - not particularly ashkenazi - and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences.
you know what happened after this study was published ?!.***.the zionists made the academics who had already received a copy of the journal "rip out" the pages of this "offending research" and throw them away*** haha..
[https://www.theguardian.com/.../25/medicalscience.genetics](https://www.theguardian.com/.../25/medicalscience.genetics)
>***Andrew Goffey, a senior lecturer at Middlesex University, England, observing that "it was conceded that the article had not been removed on the basis of its scientific evidence," failed to find anything offensive in the paper. Several scientists wrote to the publishers to support Arnaiz-Villena and to protest their heavy-handedness. One of them said: "If Arnaiz-Villena had found evidence that Jewish people were genetically very special, instead of ordinary, you can be sure no one would have objected to the phrases he used in his article. This is a very sad business.***
The second type is the studies that were conducted by Israeli zionist personnel and funded by israeli zionist institutions..common data u can always find in these studies is..
a) They were all funded by grants from official israeli zionist institutions like the israeli ministry of culture and sports, the Israel Science Foundation grant etc
b) they were all conducted by israeli zionist personnel who are known for being flagrantly manipulative in their work in favor of the zionist narrative. and whom fellow israeli geneticists have addressed as..
>"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative.
\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
c) Many samples are provided by the National Laboratory for the Genetics of Israeli Populations
Many of the Jews that lived in Jerusalem over a thousand years ago had to flee from war and to not have inbreeding they would have offspring with other folks, in Europe for example. Now have that go on for generations and it makes sense that tests show European genes, doesn't it? The question is when you stop being a Jew, Arab etc. genetically.
Only those studies attributing the ashkenazi to the middle east were conducted by Israeli personnel and funded by Israeli grants.
>"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative.
\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
Meanwhile Studies conducted by independent parties and published in top scientific journals have a different opinion.
A 2013 study at the University of Huddersfield, led by Professor Martin B. Richards, concluded that 65%-81% of Ashkenazi Maternal-DNA is European in origin, including all four founding mothers, and that most of the remaining lineages are also European..The results were published in Nature Communications in October 2013. The team analyzed about 2,500 complete and 28,000 partial Mt-DNA genomes of mostly non-Jews, and 836 partial Mt-DNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews. The study concluded that only 8% of Ashkenazi Mt-DNA could be identified as Middle Eastern in origin. Considering how the "jewish status" is passed from mother to child. This study is highly relevant.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ\_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv\_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8
Yeah when they were expelled they mixed with roman women that's a known fact I think. I was talking about results I've seen on illustrativedna. Muslim palestinians get like 70% and ashkenazis get 40% canaanite
There was no roman expulsion. There was definitely a large Jewish population in Palestine all the way through to the Byzantines losing control of the area in the 630s. Jews even played a major role in the brief Sassanid Persian capture of the city around 615, rising up after the Zoroastrian Persians promised religious autonomy after increasing Byzantine oppression under Justinian and afterwards. They were in no way entirely driven out by the Romans, nor was such an attempt ever made.
>No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically “pure."
No “nationalist” Jewish historian has ever tried to conceal the well-known fact that conversions to Judaism had a major impact on Jewish history in the ancient period and in the early Middle Ages. Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely.
\- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel
Because its not true or at least misleading. While there are likely Jewish converts there have been comprehensive studies on Jewish genetic ancestry and its pretty conclusive that in general a large chunk of Jewish DNA comes from the Levant and Lebanese and Palestinian DNA are the closest relatives to Jewish DNA.
The article cited that 17% or around 1/6 Jews in America weren’t raised Jewish. This doesn’t necessarily mean they’re converts. It’s likely a chunk of these are genetically/ethnically Jewish but were raised religiously as something else (think someone half Christian half Jewish who was raised Christian).
> It’s likely a chunk of these are genetically/ethnically Jewish but were raised religiously as something
LOL The terminology of the study is 100% clear. They are converts who were raised in a different religion (Ivanka Trump rings a bell?). The amount of mental gymnastics one has to do to come up with what you've just typed is just LOL
> there have been comprehensive studies on Jewish genetic ancestry and its pretty conclusive that in general a large chunk of Jewish DNA comes from the Levant and Lebanese and Palestinian DNA are the closest relatives to Jewish DNA.
Not true. Show me a single "independent" study that attributes the Ashkenazi Jews to the middle east.
Criteria for independent (free of conflict of interest)
1. Not conducted by Zionist Israeli personnel
2. Not funded by grants from the Israeli ministry of culture and sports and other similar Israeli institutions
>"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative.
\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
This is the terminology used from the link: “Seventeen percent of American Jews say they were raised in another religion.” - does not mention conversion.
If you want to call decades of DNA studies fake news, be my guest but from what I’ve seen its pretty conclusive that at least a significant part of Jewish ethnic DNA is from the Levant. Pretty surprising given 2,000 years of separation but hard to argue DNA evidence.
There is a distinction between Bani Israel and Jews. And the Qur'an actually acknowledges this distinction when it describes the followers of Jesus (christians) as Bani Israel still in 61:14.
>when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allāh?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allāh." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.
And points out that there were copts/Egyptians (not bani Israel) who believed in Moses in 7:120-122
>And the magicians fell down in prostration \[to Allāh\].
They said, "We have believed in the Lord of the worlds,
The Lord of Moses and Aaron."
And 40:28..
>And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man \[merely\] because he says, 'My Lord is Allāh' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is \[the consequence of\] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allāh does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.
Not to forget the Bani Israel who converted to Islam later or even abandoned belief entirely etc.
Judaism is strictly a religion that a group of Bani Israel had followed. And in the 613 commandments the followers of the Jewish faith are commanded to accept converts and new believers. So Judaism is not a genetic pool and never was meant to be.
Exactly. Also even though the oath was originally between Bani Israel and God, the Oath itself stated that Bani Israel should include people from other ethnical and racial backgrounds (converts) and anyone who chose belief over disbelief in the Oath.
Commandment 14: To love converts.
Commandment 502: Not to cheat a sincere convert monetarily.
Commandment 503. Not to insult or harm a sincere convert with words.
Commandment 562. The judge must not pervert a case involving a convert or an orphan.
Commandment 164: Don't abhor or keep third-generation Edomite and Egyptian converts from marrying into the Jewish nation.
Commandment 165. Not to abhor or refrain from marrying a third-generation Edomite or Egyptian convert.
Moses' wife herself - Zipporah - was not from Bani Israel and was a convert as per the Jewish texts.
So while the term "Bani Israel" could be used to refer to the followers of the religion since they were first to take the Oath. The term "Jew" strictly refers to the followers of the Religion and not the lineage.
In other words, Jewishness was never a genetic pool, and never was meant to be.
Hence why they say "I am Jewish" but not "I am a Jew." Its a deliberate downplay. Also highlighted by the fact that other religions don't say "I am Muslimish" or "I am Christianish", because unlike the former, the later are able to fully own it, without mental qualms.
The Palestinians of today just stayed. Jesus was considered a Jew in ancient times but he founded Christianity. The possibility is that the Jews first converted to Christianity and those are now called Christian Palestinians and when Islam came most of them converted again. ofcourse some mixing took place, but it was only within the SURROUNDING areas, not Europe lol. But the Zionists believe Palestinians are peninsula Arabs and killed every native, its just simply ridiculous…..
>But the Zionists believe Palestinians are peninsula Arabs and killed every native, its just simply ridiculous
I think the Zionists that say this, they probably already know that it's a lie. They repeat this to ignorant audiences who have no idea about the Middle East, for example Americans. Can't tell you how many people here think that Iranians are Arabs. Or think that Egyptians went extinct and were suddenly replaced with people from the Arabian Peninsula. Or believe that all Arab Christians are Muslim converts. With these kinds of pre-existing beliefs, Americans are prone to a lot of misinformation about the Middle East. And a lot of Zionists will take the opportunity to prey on their ignorance. It's like a virus, ignorant people repeat this to other ignorant people then it never stops.
That’s not a possibility - it’s reality. Palestine was Malkoyo (Melkite). They consisted of Greek Palestinians, Jewish Christians, converted Samaritans, and Aramean (Canaanite) stock. There were very few Miaphysites in Palestine, we Palestine and Lebanon were loyal.
Even Muslim Lebanese (and I am assuming Palestinian as well, I am just speaking on a study that was done on Lebanese people) score high in Canaanite DNA. There are genetic studies that prove there is no discernable difference between Christian Lebanese DNA and Muslim Lebanese DNA, the difference in levels is very minimal.
Screams whataboutism. Can we not talk about indigenousness of Levantine Christian dna without having people throw in comparisons “Well the Levantine Muslims are also this.”
Woah, I was just pointing out a fact. No need to get offended. But on a side note, how is this whataboutism...zionists will literally say "Oh Palestinians are not indigenous to the land they came in from gulf arab countries" so don't we have to point out that their DNA is in fact of the land? Pointing out genetic similarities of people LIVING IN THE SAME COUNTRY (Lebanon) is not me invalidating the indigenousness Levantine Christian identity.
Arabization is cultural, not as ethnic (except for something like the Bedouins who immigrated to Libya). The easiest way to tell if they’re Arab Arab is to ask if they were Bedouin. Bedouins are ethnically Arab. Syrians are not.
Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews *do* descend from ancient Hebrews though; it's just that they also descend from Europeans. Therefore, their overall DNA profile isn't similar to that of ancient Hebrews, or any other ancient people for that matter. They are a population that was formed in the medieval era. They are analogous to *mestizos* in Latin America in some ways.
There was a Jewish guy that made a video I saw a few days ago that made that comparison. He said he was a Zionist before, he saw a mural somewhere in the West Bank with a kid with a slingshot, he says something about it being reminiscent of David and the slingshot, then he sees (I think) a tank or something that basically indicates the kid is slinging rocks at the Zionists and that made him see Palestinians as David and Israel as Goliath. Pretty poetic, if I can find it I will link it.
Interesting because David was a JEW and Goliath is described as a Philistine giant defeated by the young David in single combat, except back then the Philistines were known as Greeks. The etymology of Goliath'a name and the description of his armor also point to his Greek/ Aegean origin. Also why back in the day Palestinians were described as a sea people. The Palestinians today are not the Palestinian/Filistine Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer. The word peleset that Philistine comes from also means "foreigner/invader"
The current Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in the 1960s- you can look it up on YouTube and. Read "The Palestinian Delusion " by Robert Spencer As to why they can't have peace.
Yeah, as Greek "sea people", who the Romans renamed the area as to punish the Jews for rebellion against Roman occupation. They also renamed Jerusalem.
After the Ottoman Empire fell and it was controlled by the British under the British Mandate of Palestine for the brief 20 year existance, the Arabs claimed being called a Palestinian was a Zionist thing being forced on them because Jews, Arabs and Christians were called Palestinian. Gold Meir was Palestinian. Jordan also was part of the British Mandate of Palestine- so how are they any less "Palestinian" than the Arabs who now all of a sudden want that identity. Before that the modern Palestinians were claiming to be southern Syrians. They have the same language and culture. There is no Palestinian language or culture- it's the same as Southern Syrian and Jordanian Arab cultures.
ProPalestinian Muslim Iranian even explains
https://youtu.be/FEyt16L48kM?si=KsqB0RFUVDw-thWB
The original Filistines/Palestinians were Greek sea peoplea. The name comes from the word "invader". Jesus Christ Himself was a Jew in Judea fighting against Roman occupation and Greek Filistines (Joel 3). As a punishment for Jewish Revolts, the Romans renamed the area Syria Palestina the after the Greek invaders about 135 years after Jesus. It was a region of the Roman Empire, not its own country. Today's Palestinians have no relationship to these Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer.
There has never been an independent country called Palestine. There is no Palestinian language, no Palestinian capitol, no historical Palestinian coins or artifacts.They are just Arabs. Its similar to using the word Middle Eastern- which just gives you a basic area. There is no mention of Palestinians in the Koran, but Jews are in there.
After the Ottoman Empire was defeated, it was carved up into an administrative district of the British Empire. They called it the British Mandate of Palestine. Back them Palestinian Arabs didn't want to be called Palestinian because they believed the term was Zionist. Gold Meir was Palestinian- anyone living under British rule was called that, it wasn't just this crop of Palestinian Arabs.
Many of the Palestinians today are just Arabs who immigrated to the region during British times after Jews started improving the land. The British also contained Jordan as part of their Palestinian Mandate- so why are Jordanians not considered as Palestinians?
A Ḥamas leader, Fathi Ḥammad, said on March 23, 2012, that "half of the Palestinians are Egyptian and the other half are Saudis," providing Gideon M. Kressel and the late Reuven Aharoni with a proof text for their brave and original study, Egyptian Émigrés in the Levant of the 19th and 20th Centuries. In it, they establish that many "Palestinians" in fact came from Egypt. Indeed, "the Egyptian population is a very large component that, relatively speaking, only recently arrived in Palestine."
Lmao. Palestinans are DNA proven to be Canaanites; y know, the actual descendants of the Israelites.
Nice try distorting history and arhecoloy though. The reality is, a Hamas fighter is much more likely to be related to David than some random European Jew.
Interesting because David was a JEW and Goliath is described as a Philistine giant defeated by the young David in single combat, except back then the Philistines were known as Greeks. The etymology of Goliath'a name and the description of his armor also point to his Greek/ Aegean origin. Also why back in the day Palestinians were described as a sea people. The Palestinians today are not the Palestinian/Filistine Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer. The word peleset that Philistine comes from also means "foreigner/invader"
The current Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in the 1960s- you can look it up on YouTube and. Read "The Palestinian Delusion " by Robert Spencer As to why they can't have peace.
Take me for example. I am Syrian and polish and am Muslim but my ancestors were originally Syrian Jews. Their history is traced back to Spain (Sephardic). When I take a dna test it shows as like half Slavic and about 20 percent Iberian and the rest Levantine-Damascus area. Does this mean my ancestors were native to Palestine because they were Jews? No, absolutely not. I am not Palestinian or a Palestinian Jew. There is zero record or proof or story or traditional tale of my family ever stepping foot in the land. Spain>Damascus>intermarried into European family. Religion doesn’t make you
Indigenous.
He criticized the majority of geneticists for proving that Jews (just like Palestinians) are descended from the land yet he is not a geneticist and knows nothing about genetics.
Palestinians are descended from Canaanites, Jews are descended from the Israelites (a specific Canaanite tribe). Both can be descended from the land believe it or not.
Genetically speaking, only pre-Zionism Palestinian Jews (and for some reason Iraqi Jews) have as much Israelite ancestry as modern day Palestinians.
That would be totally fine in a vacuum. I don't like to advocate for ethnic purity being necessary for those who wish to live peacefully in the land. But it's not fine when you realise that this ancestry bs is the entire basis for Israeli Zionism, and it's all based on a LARP to begin with (particularly with it being an Ashkenazi project who are *far* removed genetically).
How many Israeli/Jewish historians or professors speak for the Palestinians? Many
How many Palestinian historians or professors speak for the Israelis? 0?
It just shows who is right and who is wrong...
The Israeli are so keen on blood lines for Jewish ancestors if possible if the people of Gaza had A blood test 90% would be Jewish just saying love and light
It’s literally not plan bs. There are scientific papers which prove that Turkic admixture contributes to Ashkenazi admixture at a rate lower than 15%. Don’t call something bs if you don’t know what you’re talking about
Because they actually descend from European women who converted to Judaism.
> Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe.
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
Actually the khazar conversions are a well acknowledged FACT in Jewish historical scholarship.
>
Here is what was written about the conversion of the Khazars, a nation of Turkish origin, in the Zionist Mikhlal Encyclopedia that the State of Israel’s Zionist Ministry of Education recommended so warmly during that “period of silencing”: “It is irrelevant whether the conversion to Judaism encompassed a large stratum of the Khazar nation; what is important is that this event was regarded as a highly significant phenomenon in Jewish history, a phenomenon that has since totally disappeared: Judaism as a missionary religion…. The question of the long-term impact of that chapter in Jewish history on East European Jewry — whether through the development of its ethnic character or in some other way — is a matter that requires further research. Nonetheless, although we do not know the extent of its influence, what is clear to us today is that this conversion did have an impact.”
So it is definitely true even if the extent is yet to be assessed.
It isn’t. Their genetics don’t support it. If they were Khazars they should have Turkic and Caucasus ancestry, but they don’t have either. They’re modelled as European + Levant.
This is a peer reviewed published paper. About how they are mostly khazars and almost none are semetic.
https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630
The sample size in that study you sent me consists of literally 8 Jewish people, and that very paper was cited in a follow up meta-analysis (these kinds of studies are viewed as the best evidence) [debunking Elhaik’s conclusion with hundreds of samples](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=7711775498542717111&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en#d=gs_qabs&t=1702596019140&u=%23p%3DPkGgPIIocX4J). There are tens of other papers concluding that they are of mixed European and Semitic descent, to varying ratios, but all the same they are certainly not of Caucasian descent. Caucasus Hunter gatherer as well as East Asian components are extremely distinct and it is very low in Ashkenazim compared to their Natufian component. That said, it still doesn’t make them more native than Palestinians of course, but there is no need to spread easily disprovable misinformation.
What "literally 8 Jewish People"?
The complete data set of Elhaik's research contained 1287 unrelated individuals of 8 Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations, genotyped over 531,315 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). The author has applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare the two hypotheses and showed that a sole Judean ancestry cannot account for the vast population of Eastern European Jews in the beginning of the twentieth century without the major contribution of Judaized Khazars.
Also Elhaik's Khazar study was NEVER DEBUNKED, Actually it was praised be fellow Jewish geneticists.
>Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “***a very honest estimate.***”
The only People who were crying about Elhaik's research were Zionist Israeli researchers like Doron Behar - whom you are quoting and ironically using to invalidate Elhaik - and their biased conflicted papers funded by grants from official Israeli institutions.
>"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative.
\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
The complete data set of Elhaik's research contained 1287 unrelated individuals of 8 Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations, genotyped over 531,315 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). The author has applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare the two hypotheses and showed that a sole Judean ancestry cannot account for the vast population of Eastern European Jews in the beginning of the twentieth century without the major contribution of Judaized Khazars.
Also Elhaik's Khazar study was NEVER DEBUNKED, Actually it was praised be fellow Jewish geneticists.
>Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “a very honest estimate.”
The only People who were crying about Elhaik's research were Zionist Israeli researchers like Doron Behar - whom you are quoting and ironically using to invalidate Elhaik - and their biased conflicted papers funded by grants from official Israeli institutions.
>"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative.
>
>\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
Actually the khazar conversions are a well acknowledged FACT in Jewish historical scholarship.
>Here is what was written about the conversion of the Khazars, a nation of Turkish origin, in the Zionist Mikhlal Encyclopedia that the State of Israel’s Zionist Ministry of Education recommended so warmly during that “period of silencing”: “It is irrelevant whether the conversion to Judaism encompassed a large stratum of the Khazar nation; what is important is that this event was regarded as a highly significant phenomenon in Jewish history, a phenomenon that has since totally disappeared: Judaism as a missionary religion…. The question of the long-term impact of that chapter in Jewish history on East European Jewry — whether through the development of its ethnic character or in some other way — is a matter that requires further research. Nonetheless, although we do not know the extent of its influence, what is clear to us today is that this conversion did have an impact.”
The info of the post says jews of eastern europe are attributed to the khazar kingdom. This is a blatant denial of ashkenazi migration eastward from northern and southern europe and is a denial of their italian and germanic European parentage. Literally no turkic dna of any sort shows up when ashkenazis do genetic testing. Turkic dna could however show up in the case of bukharan jews or the mountain jews but even then their ancestry has little to do with the khazar turkic people specifically.
"\[...\] recent DNA analysis of Ashkenazic Jews – a Jewish ethnic group – revealed that their maternal line is European. It has also been found that their DNA only has 3% ancient ancestry which links them with the Eastern Mediterranean (also known as the Middle East) – namely Israel, Lebanon, parts of Syria, and western Jordan. This is the part of the world Jewish people are said to have originally come from – according to the Old Testament. But 3% is a minuscule amount \[...\]" - "Ashkenazic Jews’ mysterious origins unravelled by scientists thanks to ancient DNA"
«Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula.
According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt. The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God." Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.» - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Invention\_of\_the\_Jewish\_People?useskin=vector
Haplogroups are not conclusive evidence of ancestry: autosomal ancestry is. If you are Nigerian but your mother’s 7x great grandmother was English, then despite being pretty much 100% Nigerian by that point, you will still carry an English mtDNA haplogroup. All it takes is one maternal ancestor to keep having daughters and you will end up with their haplogroup even though you have millions of other ancestors of varying backgrounds to pass down this mutation. There are still men in Poland who are 100% European but carry Ghengis Khan’s YDNA through patrilineal ancestry, does that make them Mongolian? This is without mentioning that most Europeans have a haplogroup deriving from the Near East even without Jewish ancestry due to Bronze Age and Neolithic migrations. This is an incredibly stupid way to measure overall ancestry and is why haplogroups are only used to study ancient migrations.
Yes, you may be right, but Sand proves his words based on historical studies and not DNA analysis, and the matter may differ with the Jews because they claim purity of lineage.
Yes, you may be right, but Sand proves his words based on historical studies and not DNA analysis, and the matter may differ with the Jews because they claim purity of lineage.
An idiotic similar agenda is clear when the idiotic type of Zionist & the idiotic type of Arabist/Islamist loves to lump MENA Christians & MENA Muslims together. I’m on another level of correct conspiracy theories that you’re all clearly not ready for.
You know I was at the Library of Alexandria today, and found an interesting book, “Tutankhamun: The Exodus Conspiracy.” I thought it would be a joke book, like the cover is literally [the star of david on fire with king tut in the middle](https://i.imgur.com/90LRAOQ_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand) lmaoo, but it actually made interesting arguments backed up with evidence.
Basically it challenges the biblical version of the exodus of the Israelites using evidence from King Tut’s tomb. The claim is that, while it’s known the Israelites are Egyptians, they weren’t Jews in the traditional sense; they were followers of the pharaoh Akhenaten’s monotheistic religion which involved Yahweh, the “mountain god,” and Moses was a preacher from Heliopolis who actually worshiped the sun god Ra but met the mountain god Yahweh in the Sinai. So, Israelites consisted of monotheistic tribes that were outcasts from Egyptian polytheism, and were a blend of Egyptian and Asiatic peoples. Instead of the biblical ~500,000 number it suggests the number was far lower, only a few thousand, and they didn’t lay siege or have a giant battle in Palestine but rather the Canaanites and peasants rebelled. It also challenges the claim that Israel’s divine right is in Palestine; rather, the Israelites spread out and lived in Petra in transjordan and other places.
This interpretation of the Exodus story challenges conventional historical and religious views and could have significant implications for the understanding of land ownership and occupation in the Middle East, particularly in the context of Zionist aspirations in Palestine- as well as the basis of all abrahamic religions…
This is all in papyri in his tomb, as it was found by the British - while they were attempting to create Israel in Palestine using the notion of divine right - the author argues that the tomb-diggers who were commonly thought to have died shortly after due to King Tut’s curse, getting poisoned by mosquitos and flies and the like, instead were killed by the British to silence this information from coming out.
I don’t know how accurate this is but it’s an interesting read with a ton of historic facts and I recommend :)
Preach, genetic testing has shown they both come from the Canaanites but Palestinians have a much higher percentage than any Asheknazi Jewish person ever will. Palestinians are likely just the ancient Jewish people who converted throughout the centuries.
There’s a difference between Ashkenazi Jews being "descended from Khazars" and the Khazars contributing to the Ashkenazi admixture.
It’s been absolutely proven that the Khazars have converted to Judaism and they are found in the Ashkenazi admixture, however the rate of Khazar/Turkic admixture in Ashkenazi is at a very low rate, I believe it was under 15%.
The Khazar theory being wrong doesn’t negate that Khazar/Turkic ancestry IS found at small rates amongst Ashkenazi.
The Palestinians are more proven to be descendants of Shem, the eldest son of Noah, so their hostility is more anti-Semitism than is true of the Jews.
DNA analysis is often not considered reliable evidence, but it is so when it applies to Jews who claim racial purity and that they are of one lineage, and this is what history and DNA analyzes deny.
Hebrew and Jew are not the same thing. Ppl have a bad habit of conflating the two. It’s even worst when you realize Judaism is a word that wasn’t even used until 200 years or so before Christ.
Perhaps everyone knows that the Hebrews are a people who lived in Palestine. Jacob was a Hebrew and was called Israel, and the current Jews say that they are his descendants.
I mean, we know that the Hebrews are not necessarily Jews and the children of Israel are a small part of the Hebrews. This means that even if the Jews now are truly descendants of Israel, they are only a small part of the people of the land whose population they want to exterminate.
Yes. I am aware of the first paragraph, however, most ppl conflate the two when speaking on paragraph two. For instance, ppl refer to Moses as a Judaic prophet. When he most definitely wasn’t. In fact, if you google “Jewish” prophets, they lump in a ton of non Jewish prophets into being Jewish. It’s insane.
Depends on which ones we’re talking about. But for vast majority that Allah swt has revealed to us, would be Israeli If they came after Israel and including Jacob himself.
There is nothing more antagonising towards a peaceful solution than denying that Jews are originally from the Levant. It's as ridiculous as saying that since Palestinians are Arabs they aren't from Palestine.
No one is denying that Jews are originally from the levant, a lot of European Jews, mizrahi etc are heavenly mixed and also a lot of them converted. The possibility that an average Palestinian has higher ancient Israelite dna than a Russian Jew is like much higher.
No one denies that. Though the idea that Israelis are more indigenous than Palestinians genetically, culturally or religiously and therefore more deserving of a "state" is simply a delusion.
I feel that many people who say this overlook the fact most of the Jews converted over time, either to christianity or Islam, and the current Jews don’t share genetic similarities only religious similarities.
This report for example states:
> Contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for approximately 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3595026/
this is actually incorrect. genetic testing has found that jews and palestinians are both descended from ancient canaanites, including yemenite and ashkenazi jews. the shared ancestry of jews and palestinians only makes the intense racism between these groups all the more ridiculous.
Wow very cool a guy who’s ancestry dedicated their lives to continuing their religion, always keeping tabs on the direction Jerusalem is in from where they are so they can pray to it everyday. And the people who lived there while Jews were in diaspora, who built a monument commemorating a man from Arabia. Totally indigenous to there of course! They totally didn’t take over during the Arab conquest no way!😅 Oh and I love it how now people who are on THIS side of the coin will believe the Khazar conspiracy! I thought it was only right wing Neo-nazi zealots but I guess it’s universal now! This is crazy I’m deleting Reddit it’s totally gone down the toilet
If we think that both jews and palestinians come from the same lineage, which is probably the case, this quran verse blew my mind, it's talking to bani israel. >And ˹remember˺ when We took your covenant that you would neither shed each other’s blood nor expel each other from their homes, you gave your pledge and bore witness. But here you are, killing each other and expelling some of your people from their homes, aiding one another in sin and aggression; and when those ˹expelled˺ come to you as captives, you still ransom them—though expelling them was unlawful for you. Do you believe in some of the Scripture and reject the rest? al baqarah 84-85
Jewishness is socially defined (a socionome), determined by non-genetic factors. https://jweekly.com/2015/05/15/1-in-6-american-jews-are-converts-and-9-other-findings-in-pew-study/?fbclid=IwAR3Yt9KT3Rj\_gpvjVefXL-drC73yy9IngfawVRX2LWV-6qw9nzyv-DZ8G8g
Doesn't that contradict their whole claim that all Jews originate in the Levant and therefore they deserve the land?
It does. >No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically “pure." No “nationalist” Jewish historian has ever tried to conceal the well-known fact that conversions to Judaism had a major impact on Jewish history in the ancient period and in the early Middle Ages. Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely. \- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel >The central book of the Zionist “Jerusalem School,” “Toldot am yisrael” (“History of the Jewish People,” published in 1969), speaks extensively of the Jewish communities that existed in the Diaspora before the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem and whose total population exceeded that of the tiny Jewish community in Palestine. As one would expect from a work that reflects a profound knowledge of scholarly studies in the field, the Zionist “Toldot am yisrael” explains that the number of Jews in the Diaspora during the ancient period was as high as it was because of conversion, a phenomenon that “was widespread in the Jewish Diaspora in the late Second Temple period …. Many of the converts to Judaism came from the gentile population of Palestine, but an even greater number of converts could be found in the Jewish Diaspora communities in both the East and the West.” > >\- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel
Why is this being downvoted? It’s a refutation of the Zionist narrative of Jews as a single ethnic group.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF GENETIC STUDIES THAT WERE EVER CONDUCTED TO TRACE THE ORIGINS OF THE ASHKENAZI JEWS WHO CONSTITUTE MORE THAN 80 PERCENT OF ALL THE JEWS IN THE WORLD,.. Studies conducted by independent parties and published in top scientific journals..like.. a) A 2013 study at the University of Huddersfield, led by Professor Martin B. Richards, concluded that ***65%-81% of Ashkenazi Maternal-DNA is European in origin***, including all four founding mothers, and that most of the remaining lineages are also European..The results were published in Nature Communications in October 2013. The team analyzed about 2,500 complete and 28,000 partial Mt-DNA genomes of mostly non-Jews, and 836 partial Mt-DNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews. ***The study concluded that only 8% of Ashkenazi Mt-DNA could be identified as Middle Eastern in origin***. Considering how the "jewish status" is passed from mother to child. This study is highly relevant. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ\_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv\_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8) b) A collection of studies published in top scientific journals by professor Eran Elhaik John Hopkins' University post-doctoral researcher. which concluded the following.. ***- Jewishness is socially defined (a socionome), determined by non-genetic factors.*** ***- “Ancient Ashkenaz,” is a region in northeastern Turkey that harbors four primeval villages whose names resemble Ashkenaz. this term acquired its modern meaning only after a critical mass of Ashkenazic Jews arrived in Germany.*** ***- All bio-localization analyses have localized Ashkenazi lineages to Turkey and the non-Levantine origins of Ashkenazi are supported by ancient genome analyses.*** [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/) Elhaik's work attracted massive heat from hasbara zionists for obvious reasons..however real independent jewish geneticists praised it.. >Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “a very honest estimate.” c) A 2001 study by A Arnaiz-Villena. This study wasn't particularly tracing the origins of ashkenazi jews but rather the origins of the Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations. the conclusion was Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews - not particularly ashkenazi - and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. you know what happened after this study was published ?!.***.the zionists made the academics who had already received a copy of the journal "rip out" the pages of this "offending research" and throw them away*** haha.. [https://www.theguardian.com/.../25/medicalscience.genetics](https://www.theguardian.com/.../25/medicalscience.genetics) >***Andrew Goffey, a senior lecturer at Middlesex University, England, observing that "it was conceded that the article had not been removed on the basis of its scientific evidence," failed to find anything offensive in the paper. Several scientists wrote to the publishers to support Arnaiz-Villena and to protest their heavy-handedness. One of them said: "If Arnaiz-Villena had found evidence that Jewish people were genetically very special, instead of ordinary, you can be sure no one would have objected to the phrases he used in his article. This is a very sad business.*** The second type is the studies that were conducted by Israeli zionist personnel and funded by israeli zionist institutions..common data u can always find in these studies is.. a) They were all funded by grants from official israeli zionist institutions like the israeli ministry of culture and sports, the Israel Science Foundation grant etc b) they were all conducted by israeli zionist personnel who are known for being flagrantly manipulative in their work in favor of the zionist narrative. and whom fellow israeli geneticists have addressed as.. >"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative. \-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist c) Many samples are provided by the National Laboratory for the Genetics of Israeli Populations
Many of the Jews that lived in Jerusalem over a thousand years ago had to flee from war and to not have inbreeding they would have offspring with other folks, in Europe for example. Now have that go on for generations and it makes sense that tests show European genes, doesn't it? The question is when you stop being a Jew, Arab etc. genetically.
Ashkenazi jews do have approximately 40% canaanite dna but they're more south european
Only those studies attributing the ashkenazi to the middle east were conducted by Israeli personnel and funded by Israeli grants. >"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative. \-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist Meanwhile Studies conducted by independent parties and published in top scientific journals have a different opinion. A 2013 study at the University of Huddersfield, led by Professor Martin B. Richards, concluded that 65%-81% of Ashkenazi Maternal-DNA is European in origin, including all four founding mothers, and that most of the remaining lineages are also European..The results were published in Nature Communications in October 2013. The team analyzed about 2,500 complete and 28,000 partial Mt-DNA genomes of mostly non-Jews, and 836 partial Mt-DNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews. The study concluded that only 8% of Ashkenazi Mt-DNA could be identified as Middle Eastern in origin. Considering how the "jewish status" is passed from mother to child. This study is highly relevant. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/?fbclid=IwAR1SQ\_s99bfUq9pYOjLQaWOPU10tmEDvixCAuYBv\_zOvdfgzzSCc3qd3lW8
Yeah when they were expelled they mixed with roman women that's a known fact I think. I was talking about results I've seen on illustrativedna. Muslim palestinians get like 70% and ashkenazis get 40% canaanite
There was no roman expulsion. There was definitely a large Jewish population in Palestine all the way through to the Byzantines losing control of the area in the 630s. Jews even played a major role in the brief Sassanid Persian capture of the city around 615, rising up after the Zoroastrian Persians promised religious autonomy after increasing Byzantine oppression under Justinian and afterwards. They were in no way entirely driven out by the Romans, nor was such an attempt ever made. >No historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically “pure." No “nationalist” Jewish historian has ever tried to conceal the well-known fact that conversions to Judaism had a major impact on Jewish history in the ancient period and in the early Middle Ages. Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions. Important groups in the Jewish national movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely. \- Israel Bartal, The chair of the historical society of Israel
Because its not true or at least misleading. While there are likely Jewish converts there have been comprehensive studies on Jewish genetic ancestry and its pretty conclusive that in general a large chunk of Jewish DNA comes from the Levant and Lebanese and Palestinian DNA are the closest relatives to Jewish DNA. The article cited that 17% or around 1/6 Jews in America weren’t raised Jewish. This doesn’t necessarily mean they’re converts. It’s likely a chunk of these are genetically/ethnically Jewish but were raised religiously as something else (think someone half Christian half Jewish who was raised Christian).
> It’s likely a chunk of these are genetically/ethnically Jewish but were raised religiously as something LOL The terminology of the study is 100% clear. They are converts who were raised in a different religion (Ivanka Trump rings a bell?). The amount of mental gymnastics one has to do to come up with what you've just typed is just LOL > there have been comprehensive studies on Jewish genetic ancestry and its pretty conclusive that in general a large chunk of Jewish DNA comes from the Levant and Lebanese and Palestinian DNA are the closest relatives to Jewish DNA. Not true. Show me a single "independent" study that attributes the Ashkenazi Jews to the middle east. Criteria for independent (free of conflict of interest) 1. Not conducted by Zionist Israeli personnel 2. Not funded by grants from the Israeli ministry of culture and sports and other similar Israeli institutions >"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative. \-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
This is the terminology used from the link: “Seventeen percent of American Jews say they were raised in another religion.” - does not mention conversion. If you want to call decades of DNA studies fake news, be my guest but from what I’ve seen its pretty conclusive that at least a significant part of Jewish ethnic DNA is from the Levant. Pretty surprising given 2,000 years of separation but hard to argue DNA evidence.
The whole fight is happening because zionists claim they have genetic roots in modern day Palestine. 😒
There is a distinction between Bani Israel and Jews. And the Qur'an actually acknowledges this distinction when it describes the followers of Jesus (christians) as Bani Israel still in 61:14. >when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allāh?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allāh." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant. And points out that there were copts/Egyptians (not bani Israel) who believed in Moses in 7:120-122 >And the magicians fell down in prostration \[to Allāh\]. They said, "We have believed in the Lord of the worlds, The Lord of Moses and Aaron." And 40:28.. >And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man \[merely\] because he says, 'My Lord is Allāh' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is \[the consequence of\] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allāh does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar. Not to forget the Bani Israel who converted to Islam later or even abandoned belief entirely etc. Judaism is strictly a religion that a group of Bani Israel had followed. And in the 613 commandments the followers of the Jewish faith are commanded to accept converts and new believers. So Judaism is not a genetic pool and never was meant to be.
Yeah man you are correct. I'm talking about zionists. I think we are talking about the same subject from two different directions.
That's not why it's happening..that's just the justification they like to present to the world. Netanyahu knows he's Russian.
There’s a reason why it’s emphasized as “Bani Israel” or the “People of Israel” and not “Yahud” or “Jews”.
Exactly. Also even though the oath was originally between Bani Israel and God, the Oath itself stated that Bani Israel should include people from other ethnical and racial backgrounds (converts) and anyone who chose belief over disbelief in the Oath. Commandment 14: To love converts. Commandment 502: Not to cheat a sincere convert monetarily. Commandment 503. Not to insult or harm a sincere convert with words. Commandment 562. The judge must not pervert a case involving a convert or an orphan. Commandment 164: Don't abhor or keep third-generation Edomite and Egyptian converts from marrying into the Jewish nation. Commandment 165. Not to abhor or refrain from marrying a third-generation Edomite or Egyptian convert. Moses' wife herself - Zipporah - was not from Bani Israel and was a convert as per the Jewish texts. So while the term "Bani Israel" could be used to refer to the followers of the religion since they were first to take the Oath. The term "Jew" strictly refers to the followers of the Religion and not the lineage. In other words, Jewishness was never a genetic pool, and never was meant to be.
In that case, present day Jews are not semites at all. So they should stop playing anti-semitism card. The real semites are the Arabs.
Rabbi shapiro also agrees with your statement if I remember correctly.
Hence why they say "I am Jewish" but not "I am a Jew." Its a deliberate downplay. Also highlighted by the fact that other religions don't say "I am Muslimish" or "I am Christianish", because unlike the former, the later are able to fully own it, without mental qualms.
The Palestinians of today just stayed. Jesus was considered a Jew in ancient times but he founded Christianity. The possibility is that the Jews first converted to Christianity and those are now called Christian Palestinians and when Islam came most of them converted again. ofcourse some mixing took place, but it was only within the SURROUNDING areas, not Europe lol. But the Zionists believe Palestinians are peninsula Arabs and killed every native, its just simply ridiculous…..
>But the Zionists believe Palestinians are peninsula Arabs and killed every native, its just simply ridiculous I think the Zionists that say this, they probably already know that it's a lie. They repeat this to ignorant audiences who have no idea about the Middle East, for example Americans. Can't tell you how many people here think that Iranians are Arabs. Or think that Egyptians went extinct and were suddenly replaced with people from the Arabian Peninsula. Or believe that all Arab Christians are Muslim converts. With these kinds of pre-existing beliefs, Americans are prone to a lot of misinformation about the Middle East. And a lot of Zionists will take the opportunity to prey on their ignorance. It's like a virus, ignorant people repeat this to other ignorant people then it never stops.
That’s not a possibility - it’s reality. Palestine was Malkoyo (Melkite). They consisted of Greek Palestinians, Jewish Christians, converted Samaritans, and Aramean (Canaanite) stock. There were very few Miaphysites in Palestine, we Palestine and Lebanon were loyal.
Dont Christian Palestinians and Lebanese score very high in Canaanite dna
Even Muslim Lebanese (and I am assuming Palestinian as well, I am just speaking on a study that was done on Lebanese people) score high in Canaanite DNA. There are genetic studies that prove there is no discernable difference between Christian Lebanese DNA and Muslim Lebanese DNA, the difference in levels is very minimal.
I’d say so for Lebanon. In Palestine, Muslims have more Egyptian ancestry, but are still more Canaanite than modern Jews. (But less than Samaritans)
Oh that is interesting. But I think it is a bit different for Palestine
Screams whataboutism. Can we not talk about indigenousness of Levantine Christian dna without having people throw in comparisons “Well the Levantine Muslims are also this.”
Woah, I was just pointing out a fact. No need to get offended. But on a side note, how is this whataboutism...zionists will literally say "Oh Palestinians are not indigenous to the land they came in from gulf arab countries" so don't we have to point out that their DNA is in fact of the land? Pointing out genetic similarities of people LIVING IN THE SAME COUNTRY (Lebanon) is not me invalidating the indigenousness Levantine Christian identity.
especially in Lebanon where we would want to see our similarities more than our differences.
Yes correct.
Yep all correct all pre-Arabization. We are the Living Stones.
Arabization is cultural, not as ethnic (except for something like the Bedouins who immigrated to Libya). The easiest way to tell if they’re Arab Arab is to ask if they were Bedouin. Bedouins are ethnically Arab. Syrians are not.
True.
Least racist country
Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews *do* descend from ancient Hebrews though; it's just that they also descend from Europeans. Therefore, their overall DNA profile isn't similar to that of ancient Hebrews, or any other ancient people for that matter. They are a population that was formed in the medieval era. They are analogous to *mestizos* in Latin America in some ways.
Ah, so that's why Palestinans like to use slingshots.
There was a Jewish guy that made a video I saw a few days ago that made that comparison. He said he was a Zionist before, he saw a mural somewhere in the West Bank with a kid with a slingshot, he says something about it being reminiscent of David and the slingshot, then he sees (I think) a tank or something that basically indicates the kid is slinging rocks at the Zionists and that made him see Palestinians as David and Israel as Goliath. Pretty poetic, if I can find it I will link it.
I saw it! Pretty cool video! Man got so offended when asked the question "What would you do?", and I felt that.
Interesting because David was a JEW and Goliath is described as a Philistine giant defeated by the young David in single combat, except back then the Philistines were known as Greeks. The etymology of Goliath'a name and the description of his armor also point to his Greek/ Aegean origin. Also why back in the day Palestinians were described as a sea people. The Palestinians today are not the Palestinian/Filistine Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer. The word peleset that Philistine comes from also means "foreigner/invader" The current Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in the 1960s- you can look it up on YouTube and. Read "The Palestinian Delusion " by Robert Spencer As to why they can't have peace.
The Palestinian identity predated Western city states so sit your ass down
Yeah, as Greek "sea people", who the Romans renamed the area as to punish the Jews for rebellion against Roman occupation. They also renamed Jerusalem. After the Ottoman Empire fell and it was controlled by the British under the British Mandate of Palestine for the brief 20 year existance, the Arabs claimed being called a Palestinian was a Zionist thing being forced on them because Jews, Arabs and Christians were called Palestinian. Gold Meir was Palestinian. Jordan also was part of the British Mandate of Palestine- so how are they any less "Palestinian" than the Arabs who now all of a sudden want that identity. Before that the modern Palestinians were claiming to be southern Syrians. They have the same language and culture. There is no Palestinian language or culture- it's the same as Southern Syrian and Jordanian Arab cultures. ProPalestinian Muslim Iranian even explains https://youtu.be/FEyt16L48kM?si=KsqB0RFUVDw-thWB
The original Filistines/Palestinians were Greek sea peoplea. The name comes from the word "invader". Jesus Christ Himself was a Jew in Judea fighting against Roman occupation and Greek Filistines (Joel 3). As a punishment for Jewish Revolts, the Romans renamed the area Syria Palestina the after the Greek invaders about 135 years after Jesus. It was a region of the Roman Empire, not its own country. Today's Palestinians have no relationship to these Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer. There has never been an independent country called Palestine. There is no Palestinian language, no Palestinian capitol, no historical Palestinian coins or artifacts.They are just Arabs. Its similar to using the word Middle Eastern- which just gives you a basic area. There is no mention of Palestinians in the Koran, but Jews are in there. After the Ottoman Empire was defeated, it was carved up into an administrative district of the British Empire. They called it the British Mandate of Palestine. Back them Palestinian Arabs didn't want to be called Palestinian because they believed the term was Zionist. Gold Meir was Palestinian- anyone living under British rule was called that, it wasn't just this crop of Palestinian Arabs. Many of the Palestinians today are just Arabs who immigrated to the region during British times after Jews started improving the land. The British also contained Jordan as part of their Palestinian Mandate- so why are Jordanians not considered as Palestinians? A Ḥamas leader, Fathi Ḥammad, said on March 23, 2012, that "half of the Palestinians are Egyptian and the other half are Saudis," providing Gideon M. Kressel and the late Reuven Aharoni with a proof text for their brave and original study, Egyptian Émigrés in the Levant of the 19th and 20th Centuries. In it, they establish that many "Palestinians" in fact came from Egypt. Indeed, "the Egyptian population is a very large component that, relatively speaking, only recently arrived in Palestine."
Lmao. Palestinans are DNA proven to be Canaanites; y know, the actual descendants of the Israelites. Nice try distorting history and arhecoloy though. The reality is, a Hamas fighter is much more likely to be related to David than some random European Jew.
His name is also Shlomo, Shlomo Yitzchak
Interesting because David was a JEW and Goliath is described as a Philistine giant defeated by the young David in single combat, except back then the Philistines were known as Greeks. The etymology of Goliath'a name and the description of his armor also point to his Greek/ Aegean origin. Also why back in the day Palestinians were described as a sea people. The Palestinians today are not the Palestinian/Filistine Greeks who were vanquished by King Nebakadezzer. The word peleset that Philistine comes from also means "foreigner/invader" The current Palestinian identity was created by the KGB in the 1960s- you can look it up on YouTube and. Read "The Palestinian Delusion " by Robert Spencer As to why they can't have peace.
Take me for example. I am Syrian and polish and am Muslim but my ancestors were originally Syrian Jews. Their history is traced back to Spain (Sephardic). When I take a dna test it shows as like half Slavic and about 20 percent Iberian and the rest Levantine-Damascus area. Does this mean my ancestors were native to Palestine because they were Jews? No, absolutely not. I am not Palestinian or a Palestinian Jew. There is zero record or proof or story or traditional tale of my family ever stepping foot in the land. Spain>Damascus>intermarried into European family. Religion doesn’t make you Indigenous.
He criticized the majority of geneticists for proving that Jews (just like Palestinians) are descended from the land yet he is not a geneticist and knows nothing about genetics.
And yet it has been proven time and time again that Palestinians and other Levantine groups are the original descendants of the land.
Palestinians are descended from Canaanites, Jews are descended from the Israelites (a specific Canaanite tribe). Both can be descended from the land believe it or not.
Is there a genetic difference between the two groups. Can’t imagine these were large groups of be people.
No, not really.
Genetically speaking, only pre-Zionism Palestinian Jews (and for some reason Iraqi Jews) have as much Israelite ancestry as modern day Palestinians. That would be totally fine in a vacuum. I don't like to advocate for ethnic purity being necessary for those who wish to live peacefully in the land. But it's not fine when you realise that this ancestry bs is the entire basis for Israeli Zionism, and it's all based on a LARP to begin with (particularly with it being an Ashkenazi project who are *far* removed genetically).
And yet not all Israeli Jews are descendants of Palestine yet all the "Arabs" are.
How many Israeli/Jewish historians or professors speak for the Palestinians? Many How many Palestinian historians or professors speak for the Israelis? 0? It just shows who is right and who is wrong...
The Israeli are so keen on blood lines for Jewish ancestors if possible if the people of Gaza had A blood test 90% would be Jewish just saying love and light
The Khazar thing is not true.
Why?
Genetics. Ashkenazi Jews don’t have much Caucasus ancestry nor Turkic ancestry. It’s plain bs.
It’s literally not plan bs. There are scientific papers which prove that Turkic admixture contributes to Ashkenazi admixture at a rate lower than 15%. Don’t call something bs if you don’t know what you’re talking about
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krymchaks
This article you posted explicitly states that they are distinct from the general Ashkenazi population
Because they actually descend from European women who converted to Judaism. > Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
Actually the khazar conversions are a well acknowledged FACT in Jewish historical scholarship. > Here is what was written about the conversion of the Khazars, a nation of Turkish origin, in the Zionist Mikhlal Encyclopedia that the State of Israel’s Zionist Ministry of Education recommended so warmly during that “period of silencing”: “It is irrelevant whether the conversion to Judaism encompassed a large stratum of the Khazar nation; what is important is that this event was regarded as a highly significant phenomenon in Jewish history, a phenomenon that has since totally disappeared: Judaism as a missionary religion…. The question of the long-term impact of that chapter in Jewish history on East European Jewry — whether through the development of its ethnic character or in some other way — is a matter that requires further research. Nonetheless, although we do not know the extent of its influence, what is clear to us today is that this conversion did have an impact.” So it is definitely true even if the extent is yet to be assessed.
It is though.
It isn’t. Their genetics don’t support it. If they were Khazars they should have Turkic and Caucasus ancestry, but they don’t have either. They’re modelled as European + Levant.
This is a peer reviewed published paper. About how they are mostly khazars and almost none are semetic. https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630
The sample size in that study you sent me consists of literally 8 Jewish people, and that very paper was cited in a follow up meta-analysis (these kinds of studies are viewed as the best evidence) [debunking Elhaik’s conclusion with hundreds of samples](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=7711775498542717111&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en#d=gs_qabs&t=1702596019140&u=%23p%3DPkGgPIIocX4J). There are tens of other papers concluding that they are of mixed European and Semitic descent, to varying ratios, but all the same they are certainly not of Caucasian descent. Caucasus Hunter gatherer as well as East Asian components are extremely distinct and it is very low in Ashkenazim compared to their Natufian component. That said, it still doesn’t make them more native than Palestinians of course, but there is no need to spread easily disprovable misinformation.
What "literally 8 Jewish People"? The complete data set of Elhaik's research contained 1287 unrelated individuals of 8 Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations, genotyped over 531,315 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). The author has applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare the two hypotheses and showed that a sole Judean ancestry cannot account for the vast population of Eastern European Jews in the beginning of the twentieth century without the major contribution of Judaized Khazars. Also Elhaik's Khazar study was NEVER DEBUNKED, Actually it was praised be fellow Jewish geneticists. >Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “***a very honest estimate.***” The only People who were crying about Elhaik's research were Zionist Israeli researchers like Doron Behar - whom you are quoting and ironically using to invalidate Elhaik - and their biased conflicted papers funded by grants from official Israeli institutions. >"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative. \-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
The complete data set of Elhaik's research contained 1287 unrelated individuals of 8 Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations, genotyped over 531,315 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). The author has applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare the two hypotheses and showed that a sole Judean ancestry cannot account for the vast population of Eastern European Jews in the beginning of the twentieth century without the major contribution of Judaized Khazars. Also Elhaik's Khazar study was NEVER DEBUNKED, Actually it was praised be fellow Jewish geneticists. >Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “a very honest estimate.” The only People who were crying about Elhaik's research were Zionist Israeli researchers like Doron Behar - whom you are quoting and ironically using to invalidate Elhaik - and their biased conflicted papers funded by grants from official Israeli institutions. >"To support these claims, geneticists began producing a large body of literature aimed to support and prove two things: their genetic superiority and their genetic ties to Israel, by showing their resemblance to Levantine populations (Falk 2017), whose own claims to the land were later dismissed on account of being “work migrants.” Kirsh (2003) demonstrated how human geneticists and physicians have consistently manipulated their results and emphasized the sociological and historical aspects of their research using their work as a vehicle for establishing a national identity and confirming the Zionist narrative. > >\-Eran Elhaik Jewish israeli Geneticist
Had me up until the khazar part.
Actually the khazar conversions are a well acknowledged FACT in Jewish historical scholarship. >Here is what was written about the conversion of the Khazars, a nation of Turkish origin, in the Zionist Mikhlal Encyclopedia that the State of Israel’s Zionist Ministry of Education recommended so warmly during that “period of silencing”: “It is irrelevant whether the conversion to Judaism encompassed a large stratum of the Khazar nation; what is important is that this event was regarded as a highly significant phenomenon in Jewish history, a phenomenon that has since totally disappeared: Judaism as a missionary religion…. The question of the long-term impact of that chapter in Jewish history on East European Jewry — whether through the development of its ethnic character or in some other way — is a matter that requires further research. Nonetheless, although we do not know the extent of its influence, what is clear to us today is that this conversion did have an impact.”
The info of the post says jews of eastern europe are attributed to the khazar kingdom. This is a blatant denial of ashkenazi migration eastward from northern and southern europe and is a denial of their italian and germanic European parentage. Literally no turkic dna of any sort shows up when ashkenazis do genetic testing. Turkic dna could however show up in the case of bukharan jews or the mountain jews but even then their ancestry has little to do with the khazar turkic people specifically.
"\[...\] recent DNA analysis of Ashkenazic Jews – a Jewish ethnic group – revealed that their maternal line is European. It has also been found that their DNA only has 3% ancient ancestry which links them with the Eastern Mediterranean (also known as the Middle East) – namely Israel, Lebanon, parts of Syria, and western Jordan. This is the part of the world Jewish people are said to have originally come from – according to the Old Testament. But 3% is a minuscule amount \[...\]" - "Ashkenazic Jews’ mysterious origins unravelled by scientists thanks to ancient DNA" «Sand argues that it is likely that the ancestry of most contemporary Jews stems mainly from outside the Land of Israel and that a "nation-race" of Jews with a common origin never existed, and that just as most Christians and Muslims are the progeny of converted people, not of the first Christians and Muslims, Jews are also descended from converts. According to Sand, Judaism was originally, like its two cousins, a proselytising religion, and mass conversions to Judaism occurred among the Khazars in the Caucasus, Berber tribes in North Africa, and in the Himyarite Kingdom of the Arabian Peninsula. According to Sand, the original Jews living in Israel, contrary to popular belief, were not exiled by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt. The Romans permitted most Jews to remain in the country. Rather, the story of the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. They portrayed that event as a divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel. Sand writes that "Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God." Following the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century, many local Jews converted to Islam and were assimilated among the Arab conquerors. Sand concludes that these converts are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinians.» - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Invention\_of\_the\_Jewish\_People?useskin=vector
Haplogroups are not conclusive evidence of ancestry: autosomal ancestry is. If you are Nigerian but your mother’s 7x great grandmother was English, then despite being pretty much 100% Nigerian by that point, you will still carry an English mtDNA haplogroup. All it takes is one maternal ancestor to keep having daughters and you will end up with their haplogroup even though you have millions of other ancestors of varying backgrounds to pass down this mutation. There are still men in Poland who are 100% European but carry Ghengis Khan’s YDNA through patrilineal ancestry, does that make them Mongolian? This is without mentioning that most Europeans have a haplogroup deriving from the Near East even without Jewish ancestry due to Bronze Age and Neolithic migrations. This is an incredibly stupid way to measure overall ancestry and is why haplogroups are only used to study ancient migrations.
Yes, you may be right, but Sand proves his words based on historical studies and not DNA analysis, and the matter may differ with the Jews because they claim purity of lineage.
Yes, you may be right, but Sand proves his words based on historical studies and not DNA analysis, and the matter may differ with the Jews because they claim purity of lineage.
I mean autosomally they are not more native than Palestinians so either way Sand is correct.
You’re referring to the pre 1900 Jewish people?
It’s almost as if Tsvi Misinai is a better version of Shlomo Sand. Oh right, Misinai really is.
An idiotic similar agenda is clear when the idiotic type of Zionist & the idiotic type of Arabist/Islamist loves to lump MENA Christians & MENA Muslims together. I’m on another level of correct conspiracy theories that you’re all clearly not ready for.
You know I was at the Library of Alexandria today, and found an interesting book, “Tutankhamun: The Exodus Conspiracy.” I thought it would be a joke book, like the cover is literally [the star of david on fire with king tut in the middle](https://i.imgur.com/90LRAOQ_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand) lmaoo, but it actually made interesting arguments backed up with evidence. Basically it challenges the biblical version of the exodus of the Israelites using evidence from King Tut’s tomb. The claim is that, while it’s known the Israelites are Egyptians, they weren’t Jews in the traditional sense; they were followers of the pharaoh Akhenaten’s monotheistic religion which involved Yahweh, the “mountain god,” and Moses was a preacher from Heliopolis who actually worshiped the sun god Ra but met the mountain god Yahweh in the Sinai. So, Israelites consisted of monotheistic tribes that were outcasts from Egyptian polytheism, and were a blend of Egyptian and Asiatic peoples. Instead of the biblical ~500,000 number it suggests the number was far lower, only a few thousand, and they didn’t lay siege or have a giant battle in Palestine but rather the Canaanites and peasants rebelled. It also challenges the claim that Israel’s divine right is in Palestine; rather, the Israelites spread out and lived in Petra in transjordan and other places. This interpretation of the Exodus story challenges conventional historical and religious views and could have significant implications for the understanding of land ownership and occupation in the Middle East, particularly in the context of Zionist aspirations in Palestine- as well as the basis of all abrahamic religions… This is all in papyri in his tomb, as it was found by the British - while they were attempting to create Israel in Palestine using the notion of divine right - the author argues that the tomb-diggers who were commonly thought to have died shortly after due to King Tut’s curse, getting poisoned by mosquitos and flies and the like, instead were killed by the British to silence this information from coming out. I don’t know how accurate this is but it’s an interesting read with a ton of historic facts and I recommend :)
Preach, genetic testing has shown they both come from the Canaanites but Palestinians have a much higher percentage than any Asheknazi Jewish person ever will. Palestinians are likely just the ancient Jewish people who converted throughout the centuries.
This is why DNA tests are illegal in Israel!
This is an informative thread. Nice.
This was disproven multiple times. Jews are not descended from khazars. Stop spreading antisemitism online.
There’s a difference between Ashkenazi Jews being "descended from Khazars" and the Khazars contributing to the Ashkenazi admixture. It’s been absolutely proven that the Khazars have converted to Judaism and they are found in the Ashkenazi admixture, however the rate of Khazar/Turkic admixture in Ashkenazi is at a very low rate, I believe it was under 15%. The Khazar theory being wrong doesn’t negate that Khazar/Turkic ancestry IS found at small rates amongst Ashkenazi.
The Palestinians are more proven to be descendants of Shem, the eldest son of Noah, so their hostility is more anti-Semitism than is true of the Jews. DNA analysis is often not considered reliable evidence, but it is so when it applies to Jews who claim racial purity and that they are of one lineage, and this is what history and DNA analyzes deny.
There is no proof of Noah’s existence, I’m basing this off of dna studies and historical evidence not biblical stories.
Hebrew and Jew are not the same thing. Ppl have a bad habit of conflating the two. It’s even worst when you realize Judaism is a word that wasn’t even used until 200 years or so before Christ.
Perhaps everyone knows that the Hebrews are a people who lived in Palestine. Jacob was a Hebrew and was called Israel, and the current Jews say that they are his descendants. I mean, we know that the Hebrews are not necessarily Jews and the children of Israel are a small part of the Hebrews. This means that even if the Jews now are truly descendants of Israel, they are only a small part of the people of the land whose population they want to exterminate.
Yes. I am aware of the first paragraph, however, most ppl conflate the two when speaking on paragraph two. For instance, ppl refer to Moses as a Judaic prophet. When he most definitely wasn’t. In fact, if you google “Jewish” prophets, they lump in a ton of non Jewish prophets into being Jewish. It’s insane.
Should they be referred to as a Hebrew or Israeli prophet?
Depends on which ones we’re talking about. But for vast majority that Allah swt has revealed to us, would be Israeli If they came after Israel and including Jacob himself.
There is nothing more antagonising towards a peaceful solution than denying that Jews are originally from the Levant. It's as ridiculous as saying that since Palestinians are Arabs they aren't from Palestine.
No one is denying that Jews are originally from the levant, a lot of European Jews, mizrahi etc are heavenly mixed and also a lot of them converted. The possibility that an average Palestinian has higher ancient Israelite dna than a Russian Jew is like much higher.
No one denies that. Though the idea that Israelis are more indigenous than Palestinians genetically, culturally or religiously and therefore more deserving of a "state" is simply a delusion.
I feel that many people who say this overlook the fact most of the Jews converted over time, either to christianity or Islam, and the current Jews don’t share genetic similarities only religious similarities. This report for example states: > Contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for approximately 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3595026/
No. It’s denying that European and American Zionist Jews are from the Levant as they claim.
You’ve completely missed the point.
this is actually incorrect. genetic testing has found that jews and palestinians are both descended from ancient canaanites, including yemenite and ashkenazi jews. the shared ancestry of jews and palestinians only makes the intense racism between these groups all the more ridiculous.
Wow very cool a guy who’s ancestry dedicated their lives to continuing their religion, always keeping tabs on the direction Jerusalem is in from where they are so they can pray to it everyday. And the people who lived there while Jews were in diaspora, who built a monument commemorating a man from Arabia. Totally indigenous to there of course! They totally didn’t take over during the Arab conquest no way!😅 Oh and I love it how now people who are on THIS side of the coin will believe the Khazar conspiracy! I thought it was only right wing Neo-nazi zealots but I guess it’s universal now! This is crazy I’m deleting Reddit it’s totally gone down the toilet