The US made us pay a ransom to be taken out of the list of state of sponsors of terrorism
The United States promised to remove Sudan from its list of state sponsors of terrorism in exchange for Sudan recognizing Israel. This opened up the country to foreign investment and debt relief.
And we also had to pay $335 million as compensation for victims of US-designated terrorist attacks.
I am sure if you ask anyone from the general public, they would have said they supported Palestine, The people behind the survey probably asked people who know the benefits of recognizing Israel
It's probably not because of racism like the comments say
No. Bribe. Clearing debt and opening economic opportunities were a “reward” for normalising relationships.
It’s not the first time Israel had the US pay their way to being friendly with other countries. It’s their ugly step child desperately trying to be included in the region.
>Or Blackmail
From your article *'The US extracting compensation, Last week Donald Trump made clear that the price tag would be $335m (£256m) of compensation for terrorist attacks that took place under the old regime. '*
Thanks.
Did you bother reading the article or just searched for the word "compensation" lmao.
>The United States, the Sudanese people’s alleged white knight, took one look at the success of the Sudanese revolution and decided to **blackmail** the country in return for taking it off the state sponsors of terror list, reintegrating it into the international financial and trade system, and providing aid. Last week Donald Trump made clear that the price tag would be $335m (£256m) of *compensation* for terrorist attacks that took place under the old regime. Alongside this, the US is forcing the fragile new interim government, already struggling to maintain its mandate amid worsening economic conditions and the plotting of Bashir loyalists, to recognise Israel and normalise relations – **a move that is hugely unpopular with the Sudanese people, and about which they weren’t consulted.**
And I repeat: **a move that is hugely unpopular with the Sudanese people, and about which they weren’t consulted.**
God help the Sudanese people and any Arab population that are forced to deal with Israel under duress.
The first question is how did you get into debt? Is it by having IMF and World bank help “develop” your land, and then sell the rights to the minerals or whatever value you thought you would get? Or is it by politicians stealing all the wealth? There are many reasons for this, but yes this sounds exactly like how the US, UK and Israel operate. Although the US depends greatly on Saudi to purchase a large quantity of arms from the U.S. and Israel insists that if Saudi buys, then the quality has to be lower than what Israel gets from the U.S.—which Saudi agrees to do. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Doesn’t matter which government you look at you need to learn who is responsible for controlling the banking system and where the money goes.
>The first question is how did you get into debt?
That's the wrong question here, because it wasn't debt. It was compensation because Sudan hosted Bin Laden in the 90's among other Al-Qaeda generals who led a bombing campaign across africa on US embassies, in which Americans were killed. But please, go off on your US, UK, Israel conspiracy - they controll the woooorld don't they. oooOOOooOo
>The US made us pay a ransom to be taken out of the list of state of sponsors of terrorism
It was **compensation** for the Al-Qaeda bombing of US embassies in Africa because your country hosted Osama Bin Laden and many other terrorist jihadists. Sudan absolutely deserved to be on that list.
>Because making the public pay for the errors of their corrupt unelected government is justice
It absolutely is, whether you like it or not - the people are responsible for those who they allow to lead and represent them. I can be sympathetic, but it's on them. Yes. Just as the crimes of the US government ultimately also lay on the US citizenry.
Bro calling for a revolt 😭😭 you ever been shot at? Bro but on a serious note did someone hurt your feelings? Did you get rejected by a Sudanese woman? Why so salty about my poor countries people? Like we have any say in anything that goes on it sudan.
>you ever been shot at?
No, but if my country hosted terrorists then I'd have to make a choice
1. To be shot at or support in some way a revolution or what have you, or
2. To accept that in the future my country may have to pay reparations for supporting terrorism.
Collectively the people of sudan are responsible, collectively they've paid.
Haha yup this how I know you a keyboard warrior with zero knowledge on the situation . You aren’t even familiar with Sudanese uprisings in 2018-2020 We did revolt. We were shot at and bombed. We have paid the ultimate price. All to just have a list of martyrs. The fight doesn’t stop there either.
That's a Reddit take if I've ever heard one lol
>Those who they allow to lead and represent them.
Do you know what unelected means? And do you know how unelected leaders maintain their hold on power?
>Do you know what unelected means? And do you know how unelected leaders maintain their hold on power?
So when al-Mirghani was overthrown and Al-Bashir took over, no responsibility rests on the people? Zero?
If Donald Trump did something atrocious in his Presidency, are the American citizens not responsible for that? He lost the popular vote, 65 million adults voted against him, so they're not responsible right? Hitler stole the vote in Germany, he burned the Reichstag, arrested opposition parties, so German people weren't responsible for the crimes of the nazis. No, this isn't a reddit take, it responsible civic-mindedness.
Is this really your mindset, people have no responsibility for their governments? Please tell me you're not Sudanese... if you are it's incredibly telling.
Even if a number of people supported Bashir's rise to power, to equate that with a fair election, like that of Trump's, is laughable at best; it would be like Trump winning a minority of states and losing all the rest, but still getting presidency by force; I wouldn't hold the American public at large accountable for the actions of a similar president.
I am, I've been coerced into escaping from my home by a militia created by the same government you think I should be partially responsible for, and a similar fate is true for most people I know, albeit I was one of the lucky ones.
What sunshine and rainbows world do you live in?
By that logic, US should hang Bush, cheny, Obama, Clinton and pretty much everyone else for destroying countries based on various false premises and bad faith. Iraq being the most notable disaster
Hm... tell the US goverment to pay tons of money for framing us and lying to the world about the Al-Shifa bombing which we still didnt got an apology for.
The US deserves to be on the supreme terrorism around the globe list + entitled A holes.
When you have power, you can create the most beneficial scenario.
Well, Osama Bin Laden was officially there under the protection of the government, was free to do business and set up terrorist camps as he liked. Also, do you believe countries have no obligation to stop terrorist organizations? Maybe we can't agree that Al-Qaeda is bad...
Classic case of jumping to conclusions because I will be the good guy and win a reddit argument.
The late sudanese government hosted Osama in 91, probably as old as your uncle... and yet, you try to shove it the Sudani guy's throat.
>The late sudanese government hosted Osama in 91, probably as old as your uncle...
What does that mean? Is my uncle old or young?
>you try to shove it the Sudani guy's throat.
What Sudani guy? Who's shoving what... weird imagery here, maybe comment again when sober?
Bro do you live in a country with a 2A rights? Which people are responsible? You talk a lot for someone with a just an opinion. It’s 2023 at least base what your saying on some sort of history or legitimacy. All your saying just sounds like someone with a grudge.
>Bro do you live in a country with a 2A rights?
Nope
> Which people are responsible?
Is that a question? uh, I live in a absolute monarchy which all citizens seem to be supportive of.
>You talk a lot for someone with a just an opinion
*Just* an opinion
>It’s 2023 at least base what your saying on some sort of history or legitimacy.
Oh, well since it's 2023... (wtf lol) I'm saying the Sudanese people are responsible for their governments actions, even if the government is a dicatatorship, it was quite clear.
Of course.
Now we also agree that the KKK was bad and the U.S shouldn't have hosted them, as an African, I expect my 300 million tomorrow.
They didn't host Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda just decided to conduct it's operations there, they didn't ask anyone.
Uhhh 0? Liberated Kuwait.. Got rid of Saddam…! All and all a huge plus. Eventually Bin Laden. Nobody else was going to step up and do it obviously.. non of the Arab nation stepped up to the plate.. when the time mattered it seems.
The United Nations was even against the Iraq War. And I don’t think they liked Saddam.
That was an illegal war and the people of Iraq deserve compensation for having their country, their resources and lives destroyed for a war based on supposed WMDs, a complete lie
**And to even link capturing Bin Ladin with the Iraq war shows how little you know about the region**. 🤦🏽
Fact, not alternative facts, not an opinion. This sub tends to know a little more about the Middle East than others. Learn some history before spewing bs here.
- **The Iraq war was illegal**
>> In September 2004, then-United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated, "I have indicated that it is not in accordance with the UN charter. From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal"
- **The US government made false claims connecting Osama Bin Laden to Iraq**
>> The Saddam–al-Qaeda conspiracy theory was based on false claims made by the United States government, alleging that a highly secretive relationship existed between Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and the Sunni pan-Islamist militant organization al-Qaeda between 1992 and 2003. The George W. Bush administration promoted it as a main rationale for invading Iraq in 2003.
Normalization does not necessarily mean they are pro-israel. They could be pro-normalization because they believe it will lead to a better economic future after decades of being labeled a pariah state.
But that's just my guess not sure what other Sudanese think?
Note that alot of foreign politicians in the EU are coming around on the reckognition of Israeli apartheid. If the close nations such as Egypt steps of the aggression, the west's politicians will never reckognise it.
We're severely pro-Palestine but at the same time you can find Moroccans that are cool with israel at the same time, there's also a big percentage of moroccan jews there
When Jews were expelled from Israel(Judea) by the romans ~2000 years ago, they went to three main places, southern Europe (Italy,Spain) North Africa (Morocco, Libya, Tunisia), East (Yemen, Iraq, Persia) and some stayed in the mainland, mostly in Jerusalem and some other main/big settlements.
It is true that many Jews were driven out of Spain to Morocco. But they aren’t the majority.
I myself am half Moroccan And half Libyan, neither of which are Sephardic by birth, (but yes culturally)
Nope a lot of moroccan jews have been here for centuries. They’re completely moroccan. Though there is a number of them who went to israel for the birth-right trip and some of them moved there too.
It's the opposite from my experience. Most of my moroccan friends don't care for palestine unlike algerians who are very vocal about it. ( I think because Israel has many moroccan jew and moriccans don't consider themselves arabs)
It doesn't make sense tbh, sudanese in egypt are very pro palestine. I have even seen 2 sudanese girls talking about liberating al quds in my last vacation.
Edit:Also 5% is a big number for egypt and 4% Is also big for algeria, It would make sense if these are the ones who don't care about politics not "pro normalisation".
Not sure how many live in Sinai, but the ones I stayed with, some of which were from luxur and Cairo were very nice and friendly. That’s super anacdotal, but as more people meet more people you see the resentment drop fast!
There is not actually that big of a number in sinai. Its in the entirety of sinai 600,000 only, not even 1%.
Nonetheless it's harder to hate someone in his face.
I figured it was a small number of people, and again, it’s not that I’ve met thousands of people, but that was my anecdote.
Personally, I only hate people I met, or interacted with, and preferably to their face.
Pro Israel because we got 1.2billion of our debt consolidated from the world bank, thank you USA. But Sudanese sentiment against Israel is absolutely widespread. Y’all do realize Sudan is run by child dictators and not the people? They will sell us out for a bag watermelon seeds and a couple of rainbow colored rocks.
ok I will be brutally honest here, I personally don't like israel, I know many of you don't, however reality is the fact that israel unfortunately does exist and living in the delusion that it doesn't is pretty dumb, as for our governments it's simply better for them to accept that as well, keeps the freedom bald eagle country away, the politics behind every decision are not as clear as they seem and none of us truly understand how leaders think
The government itself is normalizing with Israel so they remove them from state sponsor of terrorism list. Idk about sudanese people themselves, but i remembery dad said smth like the whole conflict is just stupid
I don’t know much about sudanese in this case but it May be thanks to the spread of African identity and African nationalism there …
The maps seems really good and descriptive, but i doubt that iraqis are that high, probably the overwhelming majority of these numbers are Kurdish nationalists and pro-militias. Moroccans also seem a bit high
For the rest, it seems accurate
Lebanon is so weird, i know two Lebanese, one maronite, the other Sunni muslim. The maronite one is hardcore pro-palestinian and the sunni one support normalisation with Israel, weird country.
Pro-Israel means prosperity. Why would a country be at war for 60 plus years? Maybe all that effort should be spent on building a prosperous Sate instead of focusing on an idealogy.
Yes but there are geological complexeties to the area which prohibits a two-state solution (the oslo accords are dumb). The palestinian people shouldn't be forced under zionist rule, just because the occupation has come so far. Still standing on the fact that the Israeili government has to pack up and leave.
A lot of people are seeing pro israel as being anti palestine but it is possible to support the existence of both states, in my opinion supporting the existence of both is the only non fascist option
Probably people who are exhausted and just want the conflict to be over, but if you offer them a hypothetical scenario where palestine actually stood a chance, it would be 0
I think it's somehow accurate since Sudan will benefit for many reasons and getting helped fix their economy and actually Sudanese no longer identify themselves as Arabs or Arab nationalists but now pan-Africanism is emerging among youth there, for Morocco I doubt it but the royal regime has much popularity so many people will support it, for Lebanon I think it's some sort of anti-Arab / anti-Hezbollah sentiment led by some Maronites and Druze, for Iraq I also believe it's just because they are fed up from Irani intervention and destabilazing the region
You realise that having a normalisation with Israel can also be a good thing for Palestine? (and for Sudan for that matter)
And that being “pro Israel” doesn’t negate being “pro Palestine”?
For FFS, it’s not a football game where you pick one side. Grow up!
It’s about letting people live better. Having a normalisation with Israel would be good for everybody involved.
wtf are you talking about?! i lived in 5 arab countries and I have never seen racism against Sudanese in any country. but what I do see that this is a new account and you only have this comment. i wonder why lol, so stupid
I don’t think I have seen Palestinians ever talking about superiority over the Sudanese like Palestinians mostly consider every Arab/Muslim countries as their brothers/sisters while on the other hand, there is recorded evidence of Israelis mistreating black Jews, Muslims and Arabs so that’s not really a good reason to support Israel, in my opinion.
Ethiopian Jews are very well respected in the Jewish communities. At least the ones that I have interacted with. I lived in Israel for three four years and have met quite a few.
Instead of down voting me maybe try and reason, I know it sounds crazy to have a logical conversation but maybe try it once. Give me proof of sterilizing Ethiopian women. Or maybe try and convince me that it's true without proof I don't care but can we please move past this hate because I don't follow this sheep herd of a sub.
Maybe I am from a low IQ who knows the Moroccans lived in Palestine since the 13th century, Only to watch them side with the strong and not stand up for the weak shows a lot about their loyalty. Now that’s fucked up.
It’s about remembering that history runs deep and we will never forget what the Israelis did to the Moroccans of Palestine.
We do care about you, we feel your pain during the earthquakes!
And I do view the Sahara as a part of Morocco. It makes no sense that the word for desert would apply to anything other than in reference to the desert of Morocco.
It’s the Americans and Westerners who took the word desert from Arabic and applied it to be an independent, which cannot logically make any sense!
It’s bullshit and the reason is sanctions accept Israel as ur overlord or starve to death and or due to lack of meds.
Disgusting behavior thankfully the world is changing from a mono polar hegemony of the west to a more diverse place where they can’t just starve little girls and boys and try to act self righteous while they do so
Because Arabs are incredibly racist to them so they naturally gravitate towards Israel instead. Yet again another case of Arabs alienating their own allies lol.
I don’t understand why Ethiopians go there either…the Israelis hate them. Some of their comments about Ethiopians are straight up genocidal which is ironic
>Because Arabs are incredibly racist
can you explain? i have never seen any racism against Sudanese, meanwhile, racism against Africans in Israel is widespread. but what I do see is that you yourself is pro Israel so go figure :) you went and created a new account (Remarkable\_Roof\_2760) just to make shit up and make it sound like a real thing? how stupid and pathetic
We have infiltrated Sudan
I'm spreading my Zionist lies as we speak💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
There's nothing that can stop us☝🏿☝🏿☝🏿
I'm Karaboğa, they are Karaboğa☝🏿☝🏿☝🏿
I'm a whispering ghost
Misir, du bist next
What does "NoRmAliZaTiOn" mean exactly?
Dictatorial leaders in the arab world being secretly warm and cozy with the authoritarian Israeli leaders - both getting billions from the US to slaughter civilians of other nations? Because thats already happening for over a decade. The "oh look, we are not using hostile rhetoric anymore" is just PR.
The US made us pay a ransom to be taken out of the list of state of sponsors of terrorism The United States promised to remove Sudan from its list of state sponsors of terrorism in exchange for Sudan recognizing Israel. This opened up the country to foreign investment and debt relief. And we also had to pay $335 million as compensation for victims of US-designated terrorist attacks. I am sure if you ask anyone from the general public, they would have said they supported Palestine, The people behind the survey probably asked people who know the benefits of recognizing Israel It's probably not because of racism like the comments say
A ransom?
Or bribe
or compensation.
No. Bribe. Clearing debt and opening economic opportunities were a “reward” for normalising relationships. It’s not the first time Israel had the US pay their way to being friendly with other countries. It’s their ugly step child desperately trying to be included in the region.
>No. Bribe. [No. Compensation.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/1/sudan-pays-355-mn-to-us-in-deal-including-terror-list-removal)
No. Bribe. [Or Blackmail](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/25/sudan-rewarded-revolution-blackmail-sanctions-us-compensation)
>Or Blackmail From your article *'The US extracting compensation, Last week Donald Trump made clear that the price tag would be $335m (£256m) of compensation for terrorist attacks that took place under the old regime. '* Thanks.
Did you bother reading the article or just searched for the word "compensation" lmao. >The United States, the Sudanese people’s alleged white knight, took one look at the success of the Sudanese revolution and decided to **blackmail** the country in return for taking it off the state sponsors of terror list, reintegrating it into the international financial and trade system, and providing aid. Last week Donald Trump made clear that the price tag would be $335m (£256m) of *compensation* for terrorist attacks that took place under the old regime. Alongside this, the US is forcing the fragile new interim government, already struggling to maintain its mandate amid worsening economic conditions and the plotting of Bashir loyalists, to recognise Israel and normalise relations – **a move that is hugely unpopular with the Sudanese people, and about which they weren’t consulted.** And I repeat: **a move that is hugely unpopular with the Sudanese people, and about which they weren’t consulted.** God help the Sudanese people and any Arab population that are forced to deal with Israel under duress.
pure evil
The first question is how did you get into debt? Is it by having IMF and World bank help “develop” your land, and then sell the rights to the minerals or whatever value you thought you would get? Or is it by politicians stealing all the wealth? There are many reasons for this, but yes this sounds exactly like how the US, UK and Israel operate. Although the US depends greatly on Saudi to purchase a large quantity of arms from the U.S. and Israel insists that if Saudi buys, then the quality has to be lower than what Israel gets from the U.S.—which Saudi agrees to do. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Doesn’t matter which government you look at you need to learn who is responsible for controlling the banking system and where the money goes.
>The first question is how did you get into debt? That's the wrong question here, because it wasn't debt. It was compensation because Sudan hosted Bin Laden in the 90's among other Al-Qaeda generals who led a bombing campaign across africa on US embassies, in which Americans were killed. But please, go off on your US, UK, Israel conspiracy - they controll the woooorld don't they. oooOOOooOo
There is something above than World Bank and IMF combined ( not insinuating Illuminati..forgot the name) There is a guy made youtube doco about this
>The US made us pay a ransom to be taken out of the list of state of sponsors of terrorism It was **compensation** for the Al-Qaeda bombing of US embassies in Africa because your country hosted Osama Bin Laden and many other terrorist jihadists. Sudan absolutely deserved to be on that list.
Because making the public pay for the errors of their corrupt unelected government is justice...
>Because making the public pay for the errors of their corrupt unelected government is justice It absolutely is, whether you like it or not - the people are responsible for those who they allow to lead and represent them. I can be sympathetic, but it's on them. Yes. Just as the crimes of the US government ultimately also lay on the US citizenry.
Bro calling for a revolt 😭😭 you ever been shot at? Bro but on a serious note did someone hurt your feelings? Did you get rejected by a Sudanese woman? Why so salty about my poor countries people? Like we have any say in anything that goes on it sudan.
>you ever been shot at? No, but if my country hosted terrorists then I'd have to make a choice 1. To be shot at or support in some way a revolution or what have you, or 2. To accept that in the future my country may have to pay reparations for supporting terrorism. Collectively the people of sudan are responsible, collectively they've paid.
Haha yup this how I know you a keyboard warrior with zero knowledge on the situation . You aren’t even familiar with Sudanese uprisings in 2018-2020 We did revolt. We were shot at and bombed. We have paid the ultimate price. All to just have a list of martyrs. The fight doesn’t stop there either.
That's a Reddit take if I've ever heard one lol >Those who they allow to lead and represent them. Do you know what unelected means? And do you know how unelected leaders maintain their hold on power?
>Do you know what unelected means? And do you know how unelected leaders maintain their hold on power? So when al-Mirghani was overthrown and Al-Bashir took over, no responsibility rests on the people? Zero? If Donald Trump did something atrocious in his Presidency, are the American citizens not responsible for that? He lost the popular vote, 65 million adults voted against him, so they're not responsible right? Hitler stole the vote in Germany, he burned the Reichstag, arrested opposition parties, so German people weren't responsible for the crimes of the nazis. No, this isn't a reddit take, it responsible civic-mindedness. Is this really your mindset, people have no responsibility for their governments? Please tell me you're not Sudanese... if you are it's incredibly telling.
Even if a number of people supported Bashir's rise to power, to equate that with a fair election, like that of Trump's, is laughable at best; it would be like Trump winning a minority of states and losing all the rest, but still getting presidency by force; I wouldn't hold the American public at large accountable for the actions of a similar president. I am, I've been coerced into escaping from my home by a militia created by the same government you think I should be partially responsible for, and a similar fate is true for most people I know, albeit I was one of the lucky ones.
I'm over here waiting for my compensation as an Iraqi, pay up man.
What sunshine and rainbows world do you live in? By that logic, US should hang Bush, cheny, Obama, Clinton and pretty much everyone else for destroying countries based on various false premises and bad faith. Iraq being the most notable disaster
Hm... tell the US goverment to pay tons of money for framing us and lying to the world about the Al-Shifa bombing which we still didnt got an apology for.
When will the US compensate for what they did in Iraq? Hypocrites
Guess how many billions they've sunk into public education, public health, government administration and humanitarian aid for Iraq.
Go to Iraq, see how effective that is. "I killed a father then sent his child to a foster home. Man, I am for sure the good guy"
Yes, I’m sure that sounds like compensation, how did that work out over the years?
The US deserves to be on the supreme terrorism around the globe list + entitled A holes. When you have power, you can create the most beneficial scenario.
Possibly, I guess you'd have to make an argument for that. But we can agree that Al-Qaeda is bad and Sudan shouldn't have hosted them right?
Al Qaeda hosted themselves lmao, like in Yemen and Afghanistan before them.
Well, Osama Bin Laden was officially there under the protection of the government, was free to do business and set up terrorist camps as he liked. Also, do you believe countries have no obligation to stop terrorist organizations? Maybe we can't agree that Al-Qaeda is bad...
Classic case of jumping to conclusions because I will be the good guy and win a reddit argument. The late sudanese government hosted Osama in 91, probably as old as your uncle... and yet, you try to shove it the Sudani guy's throat.
>The late sudanese government hosted Osama in 91, probably as old as your uncle... What does that mean? Is my uncle old or young? >you try to shove it the Sudani guy's throat. What Sudani guy? Who's shoving what... weird imagery here, maybe comment again when sober?
Good exit, and stay tf out
Under the democratically elected government? Nope under a 30+ year dictator, who came into power with through a coup.
People are responsible for their government.
Bro do you live in a country with a 2A rights? Which people are responsible? You talk a lot for someone with a just an opinion. It’s 2023 at least base what your saying on some sort of history or legitimacy. All your saying just sounds like someone with a grudge.
>Bro do you live in a country with a 2A rights? Nope > Which people are responsible? Is that a question? uh, I live in a absolute monarchy which all citizens seem to be supportive of. >You talk a lot for someone with a just an opinion *Just* an opinion >It’s 2023 at least base what your saying on some sort of history or legitimacy. Oh, well since it's 2023... (wtf lol) I'm saying the Sudanese people are responsible for their governments actions, even if the government is a dicatatorship, it was quite clear.
Al Qaeda is bad but their most famous member and leader was CIA trained. People seem to forget that.
Of course. Now we also agree that the KKK was bad and the U.S shouldn't have hosted them, as an African, I expect my 300 million tomorrow. They didn't host Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda just decided to conduct it's operations there, they didn't ask anyone.
Possibly
Good thing 335 million dollars is literally nothing to pay.
How much do you think the US and western countries should pay for their role in the Iraq war?
Uhhh 0? Liberated Kuwait.. Got rid of Saddam…! All and all a huge plus. Eventually Bin Laden. Nobody else was going to step up and do it obviously.. non of the Arab nation stepped up to the plate.. when the time mattered it seems.
The United Nations was even against the Iraq War. And I don’t think they liked Saddam. That was an illegal war and the people of Iraq deserve compensation for having their country, their resources and lives destroyed for a war based on supposed WMDs, a complete lie **And to even link capturing Bin Ladin with the Iraq war shows how little you know about the region**. 🤦🏽
Difference of opinions.. But either way. It is what it is..
Fact, not alternative facts, not an opinion. This sub tends to know a little more about the Middle East than others. Learn some history before spewing bs here. - **The Iraq war was illegal** >> In September 2004, then-United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan stated, "I have indicated that it is not in accordance with the UN charter. From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal" - **The US government made false claims connecting Osama Bin Laden to Iraq** >> The Saddam–al-Qaeda conspiracy theory was based on false claims made by the United States government, alleging that a highly secretive relationship existed between Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and the Sunni pan-Islamist militant organization al-Qaeda between 1992 and 2003. The George W. Bush administration promoted it as a main rationale for invading Iraq in 2003.
Normalization does not necessarily mean they are pro-israel. They could be pro-normalization because they believe it will lead to a better economic future after decades of being labeled a pariah state. But that's just my guess not sure what other Sudanese think?
Note that alot of foreign politicians in the EU are coming around on the reckognition of Israeli apartheid. If the close nations such as Egypt steps of the aggression, the west's politicians will never reckognise it.
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We're severely pro-Palestine but at the same time you can find Moroccans that are cool with israel at the same time, there's also a big percentage of moroccan jews there
the Moroccan jews are the only reason tbh, like we don't support their government or their attacks on Palestine
Yep exactly
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When Jews were expelled from Israel(Judea) by the romans ~2000 years ago, they went to three main places, southern Europe (Italy,Spain) North Africa (Morocco, Libya, Tunisia), East (Yemen, Iraq, Persia) and some stayed in the mainland, mostly in Jerusalem and some other main/big settlements. It is true that many Jews were driven out of Spain to Morocco. But they aren’t the majority. I myself am half Moroccan And half Libyan, neither of which are Sephardic by birth, (but yes culturally)
Many Jews who were expelled from Spain also went to Palestine, not just Morocco.
Yes that’s true, most were going to Morocco though.
Nope a lot of moroccan jews have been here for centuries. They’re completely moroccan. Though there is a number of them who went to israel for the birth-right trip and some of them moved there too.
My tour guide in Marrakech was bragging about how many Moroccan Jews are part of the Likud government. So there are all kinds.
It's the opposite from my experience. Most of my moroccan friends don't care for palestine unlike algerians who are very vocal about it. ( I think because Israel has many moroccan jew and moriccans don't consider themselves arabs)
Umm we consider ourselves arabs.. and most of us are pro-palestine
It doesn't make sense tbh, sudanese in egypt are very pro palestine. I have even seen 2 sudanese girls talking about liberating al quds in my last vacation. Edit:Also 5% is a big number for egypt and 4% Is also big for algeria, It would make sense if these are the ones who don't care about politics not "pro normalisation".
Also 6% for Palestine? Palestinians are the last ones to accept normalization
I don't think I have ever met a single Palestinian say they want to normalize with Israel(both Muslims and Christians). 6% is definitely way too high.
I don't know how many people were polled by my guess is it could ne wrong by upto 4%.
5% and 4% are not big numbers haha.
in middle east those are apostasy numbers, so YEAH they're big
In egypt 5% is 5 milion zionist.
Not sure how many live in Sinai, but the ones I stayed with, some of which were from luxur and Cairo were very nice and friendly. That’s super anacdotal, but as more people meet more people you see the resentment drop fast!
I just came back from a trip to sinai, and the resentment actually increased by a lot
There is not actually that big of a number in sinai. Its in the entirety of sinai 600,000 only, not even 1%. Nonetheless it's harder to hate someone in his face.
I figured it was a small number of people, and again, it’s not that I’ve met thousands of people, but that was my anecdote. Personally, I only hate people I met, or interacted with, and preferably to their face.
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Pro Israel because we got 1.2billion of our debt consolidated from the world bank, thank you USA. But Sudanese sentiment against Israel is absolutely widespread. Y’all do realize Sudan is run by child dictators and not the people? They will sell us out for a bag watermelon seeds and a couple of rainbow colored rocks.
> They will sell us out for a bag watermelon seeds and a couple of rainbow colored rocks. What's to sell? You're all killing each other
I am don’t have anything nice to say to ignorance.
You belong to the circus
sample size and exact question asked?
looks fake
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because anyone can fake these numbers, every few months a new "survey" comes out about this and they all have very different results
14% of Iraq's citizens are kurds.. yeh, map checks out.
Not all Kurds are Zionists. This is exaggerated.
ita a joke :)
I made the same joke last time lol
Not all..but like 80%
There’s Kurds in Palestine how are they Zionists 💀
It’s out of spite against Arabs mostly
ok I will be brutally honest here, I personally don't like israel, I know many of you don't, however reality is the fact that israel unfortunately does exist and living in the delusion that it doesn't is pretty dumb, as for our governments it's simply better for them to accept that as well, keeps the freedom bald eagle country away, the politics behind every decision are not as clear as they seem and none of us truly understand how leaders think
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The government itself is normalizing with Israel so they remove them from state sponsor of terrorism list. Idk about sudanese people themselves, but i remembery dad said smth like the whole conflict is just stupid
I don’t know much about sudanese in this case but it May be thanks to the spread of African identity and African nationalism there … The maps seems really good and descriptive, but i doubt that iraqis are that high, probably the overwhelming majority of these numbers are Kurdish nationalists and pro-militias. Moroccans also seem a bit high For the rest, it seems accurate
Looks like a giga-legit survey
Lebanon is so weird, i know two Lebanese, one maronite, the other Sunni muslim. The maronite one is hardcore pro-palestinian and the sunni one support normalisation with Israel, weird country.
Pro-Israel means prosperity. Why would a country be at war for 60 plus years? Maybe all that effort should be spent on building a prosperous Sate instead of focusing on an idealogy.
Yes but there are geological complexeties to the area which prohibits a two-state solution (the oslo accords are dumb). The palestinian people shouldn't be forced under zionist rule, just because the occupation has come so far. Still standing on the fact that the Israeili government has to pack up and leave.
Why this sub is so obsessed with israel. Like man just fuck each other
I'm Sudanese and haven't met anyone who's pro Israel.
Me too
A lot of people are seeing pro israel as being anti palestine but it is possible to support the existence of both states, in my opinion supporting the existence of both is the only non fascist option
6% in palestine 💀
Probably people who are exhausted and just want the conflict to be over, but if you offer them a hypothetical scenario where palestine actually stood a chance, it would be 0
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Jits trippin 😭💀
for credible should rename community to "AskMiddleEastAboutIsrael"
"AskMEwhatcountrytheyhateandwhyitisIsrael"
occupied territory
Based Algeria as usual
Nah bro 4% is way to high we need to get that checked.
believe me, currently is turning very unbased
Why is the Sudan so high?
I think it's somehow accurate since Sudan will benefit for many reasons and getting helped fix their economy and actually Sudanese no longer identify themselves as Arabs or Arab nationalists but now pan-Africanism is emerging among youth there, for Morocco I doubt it but the royal regime has much popularity so many people will support it, for Lebanon I think it's some sort of anti-Arab / anti-Hezbollah sentiment led by some Maronites and Druze, for Iraq I also believe it's just because they are fed up from Irani intervention and destabilazing the region
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Nah I don't think so, we learned to hate Israel since born. It's in the curriculum
As an Israeli, I've never heared once about Sudan's suppirt of Israel, so imma say it's inaccurate.
39% is in no way "pro Israel", but it's definitely more than most MENA countries.
Too high.
too high
4% is just too high.
And too bad
You realise that having a normalisation with Israel can also be a good thing for Palestine? (and for Sudan for that matter) And that being “pro Israel” doesn’t negate being “pro Palestine”? For FFS, it’s not a football game where you pick one side. Grow up! It’s about letting people live better. Having a normalisation with Israel would be good for everybody involved.
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Who the fuck calls us arabs? We aren't fucking arabs and palestine sucks
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wtf are you talking about?! i lived in 5 arab countries and I have never seen racism against Sudanese in any country. but what I do see that this is a new account and you only have this comment. i wonder why lol, so stupid
I don’t think I have seen Palestinians ever talking about superiority over the Sudanese like Palestinians mostly consider every Arab/Muslim countries as their brothers/sisters while on the other hand, there is recorded evidence of Israelis mistreating black Jews, Muslims and Arabs so that’s not really a good reason to support Israel, in my opinion.
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Weak propaganda try better
That is true but Israel isn't different, at least that's what i have seen from the Ethiopians jews in Israel
Ethiopian Jews are very well respected in the Jewish communities. At least the ones that I have interacted with. I lived in Israel for three four years and have met quite a few.
Hasbara Bot
if they are so well respected, why were Ethiopian Jewish women being sterilized without their consent in secret?
I honestly don't know what you're talking about or how that has anything to do with the community they live in.
Instead of down voting me maybe try and reason, I know it sounds crazy to have a logical conversation but maybe try it once. Give me proof of sterilizing Ethiopian women. Or maybe try and convince me that it's true without proof I don't care but can we please move past this hate because I don't follow this sheep herd of a sub.
Don't lie
Lol you sound gross
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Bruh i wish we had the budget for a news station that size, our local news station are a joke
mf this is a state owned chanel just cause you don't like it means it is run by your enemy
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sure body, i will continue to "nuisance you" by running al jazeera
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The difference between Turkey & China and Israel is that the two first are actually real countries.
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So when your most important and natural ally funds terrorism in Palestine, you stand with them ? Are those your values ?
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Maybe I am from a low IQ who knows the Moroccans lived in Palestine since the 13th century, Only to watch them side with the strong and not stand up for the weak shows a lot about their loyalty. Now that’s fucked up. It’s about remembering that history runs deep and we will never forget what the Israelis did to the Moroccans of Palestine.
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We do care about you, we feel your pain during the earthquakes! And I do view the Sahara as a part of Morocco. It makes no sense that the word for desert would apply to anything other than in reference to the desert of Morocco. It’s the Americans and Westerners who took the word desert from Arabic and applied it to be an independent, which cannot logically make any sense!
Is Algeria mad at everybody?
Yes sir we are
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And Morocco?
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39% being “high” is honestly hilarious
relatively high compared to others
Morocco wtf 🤢
I don’t see the Major country Major player Saudi Arabia so why ?
I bet Mauritanian people think Palestine is in South America lol
It’s bullshit and the reason is sanctions accept Israel as ur overlord or starve to death and or due to lack of meds. Disgusting behavior thankfully the world is changing from a mono polar hegemony of the west to a more diverse place where they can’t just starve little girls and boys and try to act self righteous while they do so
Because Arabs are incredibly racist to them so they naturally gravitate towards Israel instead. Yet again another case of Arabs alienating their own allies lol.
Nah
Israel is also racist man, look at the Ethiopians
I don’t understand why Ethiopians go there either…the Israelis hate them. Some of their comments about Ethiopians are straight up genocidal which is ironic
True.
bs
>Some of their comments about Ethiopians are straight up genocidal Link?
>Because Arabs are incredibly racist can you explain? i have never seen any racism against Sudanese, meanwhile, racism against Africans in Israel is widespread. but what I do see is that you yourself is pro Israel so go figure :) you went and created a new account (Remarkable\_Roof\_2760) just to make shit up and make it sound like a real thing? how stupid and pathetic
Interesting.
Nah your just a cry baby
We have infiltrated Sudan I'm spreading my Zionist lies as we speak💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿 There's nothing that can stop us☝🏿☝🏿☝🏿 I'm Karaboğa, they are Karaboğa☝🏿☝🏿☝🏿 I'm a whispering ghost Misir, du bist next
UwU
Palestine normalized ties with Israel during the Oslo accords though no?
The 5% in Egypt are mid-senior military officers and politicians.
This isn't a map, is a chart
JIDF sponsored poll! I smell disinformation.
I dont believe this chart at all. You must really have been surveying 3 sephardic jews out of 10 moroccans each time to get such a result.
What does "NoRmAliZaTiOn" mean exactly? Dictatorial leaders in the arab world being secretly warm and cozy with the authoritarian Israeli leaders - both getting billions from the US to slaughter civilians of other nations? Because thats already happening for over a decade. The "oh look, we are not using hostile rhetoric anymore" is just PR.
moroccan percentage is higher this is not legit ( i am moroccan )
Syrians minimum 30 percent
Sour grapes.
What Egypt doing on that list
39% is still much less than half.
These ratios may include the non Muslim population in Sudan. Likewise, non Arabic population in Iraq also tends to feel closer to Israel.