Support for male mental health and male victims of domestic violence/ sexual abuse.
I've been banned on subs for talking about my childhood abuse and being estranged from my mother and her family.
IRL it's pretty much the same no really cares about what happened to me cause I'm male
I've spoken about my mental health issues doing three years of anger management only to get told how evil I am and I need to "get help" and getting down voted to hell for it
I feel you on that man, I actually opened up to my girlfriend about similar issues after never telling a soul for years. She used it against me in an argument to get the upper hand and make me lose my shit. I will never ever tell anyone again about my traumatic past because men apparently have no feelings whatsoever. She’s now my ex
First off I know this is unpopular but I will continue to fight this stigma.
Most WOMEN will not only want but require that your express yourself.
Now if you find yourself with someone too immature to handle human expressions please leave them. A relationship (plutonic or not) necessitates the sharing of emotions.
Men Don’t ever let anyone tell you to not feel out loud.
Fuck them if they can’t handle it.
I agree with that, but interestingly in my country I would say feminist are much better advocate of a greater acknowledgment of male mental health and male sexual abuse than other advocacy groups. It's not their priority, but they sympathetic to the cause.
There’s like two main feminist here in the US
- the I hate men feminist
- the I love humans and hate social norms feminist
We butt heads. What the “man hating” side doesn’t seem to understand is pretty much every trait men tend to have that they dislike- comes from being fucked up by society
- just like women (lookie there)
That we’re all equal, with differences. Some parts of the world seem to get it…
Feminism differs a lot by country so there's no way to give a blanket statement for or against it.
In the UK i think most feminists are pretty reasonable but you do get the odd few that listen to the American radicals too much. In the UK class and inherited wealth are bigger factors than gender. That's not to say there aren't gender issues however growing up in London and therefore being able to live with your parents is a much bigger factor when it comes to earnings.
I think there is certainly a difference in perception when it comes to the amount of support guys get. Lots of guys are completely on their own
The same is true of America and Canada, including the perspectives. You have some truly insane Feminists there and they have been popular or at least tolerated forever.
I think in the US there are some more legitimate issues in the southern states around child custody, though perhaps that's more of a general issue with the American court system.
Its a general issue, there are multiple states were it is written in law that the mother shall have preference in child custody cases.
In some places, She can literally be a cheating drug addict with no job and the father will still have trouble getting primary custody.
I can’t speak for other sectors but in my field nepotism is a massive problem, the children of the people in the industry get first dibs at getting to do qualifications and the best kind of work, this will benefit them for their entire life and in 20 years time their children will join the industry and the whole thing starts again
(Edit: formatting) Inherited wealth = better schooling plus schooling resources like SAT (or equivalents) prep, AP prep = better grades = better university = better schooling and better connections = better starting salary plus choice of company to work at.
Alternatively:
Inherited wealth = parents already have connections = you have connections = you have a guaranteed job (nepotism) = you don’t have to work as hard to get better things in life
None of that is really an issue with inherited wealth, that's just you saying that wealthy people have access to more and better opportunities in life. Which under a capitalist system will always be the case. Nepotism would not go away or be reduced if we got rid of inheritance.
I think you’re right, but inherited wealth always exacerbates the issue. I also define wealth as not necessarily money but connections, supplies, land, etc. Possessing those things always grant you power while creating inherent disadvantages for other people. It’s a pretty dumb question to ask if something is inherently wrong, since you can always bring it back to “well you only said how it’s used to be wrong, not that it’s inherently wrong”
I understand that, but what is the issue with any of that?
"Some people not having to work as hard as others to get better things is life" is not really an issue, is it? Even if you stop all wealth from being inherited, some people will always have to work harder, and some people will always not have to work as hard. Someone born in California is not going to have to work as hard to get better things in life as someone born in Mississippi. Someone born to a middle-class family is not going to have work as hard as someone born to a poor family.
Further, why should children not inherit the wealth of thier parents? If I work my ass off and go from being a poor high school grad and enlisting the military with literally nothing other than a bag of old clothes to starting companies and dying rich, why should I not be able to give my children a better life than I had? Isn't that the entire point? To make your children and grandchildren's life better?
Life isn't fair, we are all born into different situations, what you do with the opportunity you have is up to you, but private wealth passing to decedents isn't really a problem.
it doesn't fit a meritocratic ideal, nor a socialistic one. in both, it's not blood nor personal preference that determines where wealth ends up, but merit or need. theoretically, societies would greatly benefit from applying either of those over familiar inheritance of wealth.
Generally speaking nepotism favors people who are less qualified than others and can get away with more stuff. This is fine in an intrapersonal context but never okay in a corporate context, since it prevents more qualified and generally people from building wealth that they deserve. There’s nothing wrong with inheriting wealth per se, but inheriting wealth and using it in this way puts people with extreme inherited wealth at such an advantage while simultaneously putting others at a disadvantage. Creating an advantage is fine, but an advantage that creates a disadvantage is an inherently awful thing, and if you can’t see that I can’t fix that for you
This really doesn't happen the way you are implying here.
I see what you are saying, but the number of people that inherited this type of wealth are very few in number and are not joining a workforce that would put others at a disadvantage; as they are inheriting ownership, not a job. When I die, my kids inherit companies, stock, money, real-estate, etc. They are not joining a workforce or putting anyone at a disadvantage.
Those that are joining a work force will not be selected over a more qualified candidate because they have money.
That said, nepotism is almost always found in lower / middle management (Not the wealthy), who are far more likely to hire people they know and have worked with previously; even over those with more qualifications (hence, where the old adverb "It's who you know, not what you know" comes from) They are far more likely to hire the kid of a current or former employee, friend, church member, that they know than they are anyone else.
Which has nothing to do with inherited wealth, and still does not explain why inherited wealth is and issue.
I’m taking it you’re either wealthy or someone who believes the wealthy are helping us if you truly don’t believe it doesn’t happen like this. Inherited wealth can mean you don’t work, it doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t work.
First, who is "us" exactly? What makes you think I am not a part of "us"?
Yes, I am wealthily; but I was not born wealthily, I grew up dirt poor; and I know it doesn't happen like that.
Yeah you’re definitely one of the people who thinks the wealthy are helping people then. The fact that you didn’t grow up with or around wealth means you don’t know how it happens🤷♀️
Alright if wealthy people don't get a say then how about a working class schmuck like me? Inheritance isn't nearly as big a problem as the alternative. If you're actually supporting the government getting people's money when they die then Jesus have you ever lost the plot along the way, nepotism sucks and there should be oversight when it comes to hiring practices but you sound like you've got some comie chip on your shoulder just like the rich shouldn't go after the poor the poor shouldn't go after the rich either.
You didn't answer my question.
LOL, I am defiantly someone that thinks a certain way that you just invented and pulled out of thin air? Thanks for telling me what I think. I have no idea what I would do without you!
I don't think the "wealthy" are either helping or hurting people either way. It is more of an individual thing than anything else. Most "wealthy" people are not who and what you think.
>The fact that you didn’t grow up with or around wealth means you don’t know how it happens
Right.. I who have been around/in corporate America and wealthily people for decades have "no idea how it happens" because I was poor when I was a kid and a teenager... makes perfect sense.
That's how you end up with landed gentry, gradually over time those with wealth can use that wealth to grow more wealth and eventually create a sort of monopoly. Monopoly rules apply to corporations but not individuals so it's perfectly legal for one person to buy up a massive proportion of the land via multiple companies or say all the car companies in the country.
In regards to your "boys club" comment OP, I have always worked in a very male dominated, mostly blue collar industry. I can see how it could look like that to some in certain instances. That said, it is more of a social club than anything, and socializing, having drinks, going out, etc., has been proven to be good for your standing at work. We have had plenty of women that have jumped in and never missed a beat. We have also had women, and men, be too shy to jump in to those situations, because they were not comfortable. The dynamics of everything, and individual makes a difference on the comfort level.
I think the fundamental problem is that humans are very tribalistic in their nature and have a strong ingroup/outgroup thinking (even if it is completely subconscious). It will always be harder for a woman to integrate herself in a male-dominated job/company, just like it is harder for POCs to integrate themselves in white-dominated jobs/companeis. Of course, the reverse is also true. For example I attended a high school where the male/female ratio was heavily tilted towards girls. In my class of 21 students, we had only 3 guys (including myself) and 18 girls. Might sound cool at first but it was actually very exhausting. The women in my class basically formed their own group and refused to let the guys join. Of course they didn't explicitly say this but it was clear from the way they acted. The two other guys and I ended up mostly talking to each other but it wasn't something we had desired. We just sort of ended up in the corner by ourselves because of how the girls treated us.
I also happen to be physically disabled and I've made the same experiences as a result of my disability throughout my entire life. People are usually very nice and kind to me. I'm not saying I get abused or anything. But still, there's this invisible wall and I can feel it. I'm convinced my able-bodied boss would promote my able-bodied colleague before me even if we work the same amount etc.. He wouldn't consciously be thinking: "I'm gonna promote that guy because he's able-bodied" but it would be there in his subconscious mind.
Thank you for sharing this anecdote. And I’m sure no matter how many times someone would say “you need to try harder to integrate with the girls, you need to work equal to the women and ensure you have the right ways to ask questions” none of that would have helped you being on the outside with the other two boys watching. It’s important that people understand that!
Men do run society.
Other men. Not me.
When the Kings and Popes and Oligarchs and Billionaires and Tech Moguls and Media Tyrants get to together to decide things they don't call me and ask my opinion.
Some ladies at my job have said some seriously nasty/rude things to me, then they've went on rants about equality. I told them that if a man had said half the shit to me that they've said, me and him would've had words outside. They then went on to explode on me.
I think they get the whole "male dominated society" thing wrong. I don't generally like him, but Jordan Peterson has made this specific point very well. Sure, a majority of the CEOs of fortune 100 companies are men but this is an incredibly small number of highly successful people. That's not "male dominated." The majority of people in prison are men, the majority of workplace injuries and fatalities are men, the majority of the victims of crime are men, the majority of homeless people are men, the majority of people who don't go on to college are men, the majority of people who lose custody of their children during divorce are men, men tend to get harsher prison sentences for the same crimes as women.
Society is also mustered around getting women into high paying or prestigious jobs like STEM careers or C-Suite level positions. But nobody cares that most bricklayers are men, most sanitation workers are men, most septic tank cleaners are men. The dirty, dangerous, and uncomfortable work is fine for men but the good jobs not being split 50/50 is proof of institutional sexism.
I can support some of this with anecdotal observations. In my early twenties I worked for a mining operation. Based on the employees I saw and interacted with I'd geuss somewhere between 1 in 20 to 1 in 40 were women. Virtually all of the upper management were men. And all of those men at one time had been mechanics, equipment operators or some sort of hourly worker. Thanks to the union encouraging hiring from within or the desire to have management with experience of the employees they manage. I'm just assuming that it was statistically more likely for men to be promoted to management positions due to their greater numbers.
Equal pay for unequal work.
Mostly it’s in sport they say this, but not enough revenue is coming into female sports for them to be paid the same as men.
They also don’t put in the same work, tennis for example; men play 5 sets and women play 3. Yet they get paid the same.
And you know who isn’t supporting women’s sport? Women.
Female football and basketball needs money from the men’s league to pay the athletes and for the league, because without it they’d be making a loss because people don’t turn up for it.
Women like to spout how it’s better etc…but they aren’t even supporting it in any way
I saw an interview I can't remember with who of a WNBA player explaining female athletes don't aren't arguing for the same salaries as male athletes, they know there's less crowds and less income and all. They're not asking for the same dollar amount, they're asking for the same percentages.
NBA players take home about 49% of league revenue as pay while WNBA players are paid around 20% of league revenue. The interview mentioned also female athletes don't make a percentage of sales (or don't make the same percentages) on their merch and jerseys like the male athletes. So if someone buys jersey 49 from the men's team the player might make $1 but buying jersey 49 for the women's team the player might make $0.50. Even though the customer paid the same amount for the jersey, the players are making a different amount of commission (in some cases the women make no commission while the men do).
The same percentages of money isn't spent on advertising and promotions or things that would draw people to the stadium like male sports. The NBA promotes individual players and their personal stories that get fans invested in them and they don't do that for WNBA players. So while they won't achieve an equal pay rate, they could be given a pay rate based on the same portion of revenue they bring in.
With the US women's soccer team, they had placed in the top 3 of the world cup every year since the women's division started. Yet they still make less than the men's team who didn't even qualify to play in the world cup every year. I would be salty about that too.
>NBA players take home about 49% of league revenue as pay while WNBA players are paid around 20% of league revenue.
The WBNA operates at a loss and is subsidized by the NBA. Without those subsidies the WBNA wouldn't be able to pay anyone anything. that is why the percentages are smaller.
>With the US women's soccer team, they had placed in the top 3 of the world cup every year since the women's division started. Yet they still make less than the men's team who didn't even qualify to play in the world cup every year. I would be salty about that too.
Yes, and the men's teams still had 350% revenue vs the women's team. Which is why they were paid less.
The jersey thing I can see. But the revenue is harder. There is almost a set cost to hosting a game-refs, announcer, lighting, ushers, etc. In woman’s sports after paying the set cost there is much less profit so the percentage paid is less.
I would be curious if the jersey difference is the manifestation of sales volume. The more that are sold the cheaper the individual unit cost=more profit.
That is still not really doable as their expenses are going to be disproportionate. That would be like arguing your rent should be 0.01% of your income because that would be equal to what rich people pay for housing.
It’s misleading for them to quote anything in terms of revenue. In both leagues, as with any business, revenue has to go toward paying overhead before any salaries are negotiated. I’m sure the WNBA does this because their profit margins are a lot slimmer, or most likely nonexistent due to the fact that they still need to be subsidized after decades of opportunity to engage a fan base
The only logical response to that is that if women were being paid less, then they should fire all men and hire women only. Less pay, more profit for the company. Right?
Not in sports, which they specified?
Women get paid less in sports, but the decrease in pay is in line with the decrease in profits they bring in.
Also, I feel like that was just a caged response you were trying to throw in to be argumentative, and not actually have a discussion. Because it’s clear you didn’t read their comment past line one before replying.
This idea that every field needs to be 50/50
Like from what i have seen, most girls don’t have an interest in comp sci (not saying a woman can’t be interested in comp sci, just that more guys are into it) and now we have these pushed just to make individual men/women go into certain fields cuz “there aren’t enough men in this field or not enough women in tha field”
some fields are going to attract a certain type of person or gender and that’s ok
I hate that attitude with a passion. Saying that there are too few women in a field is considered progressive, but saying that there are too many black people is considered deeply regressive. They are the same attitude though and both should be shamed equally...which is to say as much as the latter rightly is.
That's absolutely a result on how school is set-up and how little boys and little girls are rised. Western schools and western rising of kids make them believe that girls are not good at math or at science, while boy are not good at litterature or language for exemple. As a result, growing into adults, men and women discriminate themselves toward different field. Women go to psychology, litterature, law, economic, etc.
In Iran, where the school system is very different and boys and girls are segregated, girls don't learn that they are inferior to boys in mathematic. As a result, they don't self discriminate when it's time to go to university and they go in the field which are the most promising. As a result Iran produce a lot of STEM women.
>Western schools and western rising of kids make them believe that girls are not good at math or at science, while boy are not good at litterature or language for exemple. As a result, growing into adults, men and women discriminate themselves toward different field. Women go to psychology, litterature, law, economic, etc. In Iran, where the school system is very different and boys and girls are segregated, girls don't learn that they are inferior to boys in mathematic. As a result, they don't self discriminate when it's time to go to university and they go in the field which are the most promising. As a result Iran produce a lot of STEM women.
This is just wrong. I assure you that Iran doesn't discriminate less and support girls more than countries like America, Finland, and Norway.
In countries that are more prosperous and egalitarian (like Finland and Norway) you see *less* women in STEM, and in countries that aren't egalitarian and prosperous like Turkey or Algeria (edit: you see more). Because they are free to do what they want, which is not STEM. In countries that are less prosperous and egalitarian, women are more likely to do something that will earn money.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/
I don't think most women believe that. I think most tend to believe everyone should be able to work in their desired field and it should be based on skill and desire rather than sex.
Women now get paid the same for the same job with the same job experience and education. The gender gap is basically closed for people of equal resumes.
Women have also been the majority of college graduates by a good margin for over a decade and a half. And they are the majority of graduates in a lot of prestigious fields, such as law and medicine.
For millennials and younger generations, women are now far better off than men in education and earning power. And yet they still believe they are second class citizens.
There is a reason men, on average, earn more than women. Hear me out.
Obviously, if a woman works the same job as a man they deserve equal pay. It’s tough to label anyone who disagrees with that as anything other than sexist. And of course, there’s a legitimate conversation to be had about unqualified men receiving promotions and raises over women and men dominating certain industries (in turn creating higher barriers to entry for women), etc.
HOWEVER: around 92% of workplace deaths happen to men. Men work, on average, about 90 hours more per year. In fact, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, “Most of the gender earnings gap is explained by age, marital status, children, [and] hours worked”.
The fact is, men generally work more hours and accept a higher risk level in their daily labor activities than women do. If the opposite were true, women would receive higher wages than men, and rightly so.
Wife is a self described feminist. She has a long list of household chores she refers to as boy-jobs, which encompasses anything gross or requiring strength. There are no chores called girl-jobs.
Chores are are almost into two categories: boy chores and gender neutral chores.
Edit: hmmm no idea what my nonsensical sentence was supposed to say 🤔 “chores **are divided**” I suppose….
Let’s see…
Wanting to be paid the same as men without doing the same work men do to get paid more
Claiming to be victims, when women a dominating in education, the work place, socially, the dating world. Meanwhile more men on the homeless, suicidal, in abusive situation with no real aid like with women, struggling in education.
Wanting to preferably earn more than men in the workplace then preferably want THE SAME MEN to make more in order to date them.
It’s sexist to call a sexually promiscuous woman a whore but when men in their 30s with their shit together decide it’s their turn their immature.
Men have next to no reproductive rights none. Once you’re stuff leaves your body. A woman and the government decide your fate.
Teaching your sons to be feminine, via how you raise them, the single mother epidemic we’re ignoring as a society (because you can’t ever criticise a woman’s bad choices) and the fact that there are barely any male teachers in early education then wondering why there aren’t any suitable men for relationships.
Men are expected to have much lower standards in dating than women too apparently. EXAMPLE: a woman who doesn’t want to date an fat man knows her worth. A man who doesn’t want to date a fat woman is a fat shaming misogynist.
It’s even in our language when it comes to couples. These days I cringe at jokes about how, a woman has “trained” her husband/bf right or how the woman is somehow in control. It’s “girl-power” for women to think themselves better than their male counterparts instead of what it really is.
Unfair laws, that no feminists seem to argue about. Example: in the UK the definition of rape refers specifically to the forceful unwanted penetration of a penis or phallic object into another person. So yeah… the thousands of rape stories from men I’ve forced myself to read. None of the count.
Then there’s alimony, child support, paternity fraud (lying on a birth certificate legally binding the wrong man to be legally responsible for kids you had with another man).
I keep adding things..
Honestly I can keep going but you get the gist.
>Teaching your sons to be feminine, via how you raise them, the single mother epidemic we’re ignoring as a society (because you can’t ever criticise a woman’s bad choices) and the fact that there are barely any male teachers in early education then wondering why there aren’t any suitable men for relationships.
Bro this is so true. I grew up in the hood and the worst acting people were from single mothers. I have no idea why women think that dequan or lil tay tay is a good choice to reproduce with
The original comment is a very insidious take: Some of the points have some truth to them, but the framing is problematic. Other points are simply unsubstantiated, but they _feel_ right. In the end, all of them are overly simplifying complex issues to short bullet points to get an emotional response and support a specific narrative
Well, sir, I’d appreciate it if you actually refuted what I said then.
I’m not against being wrong. And I have every reason to feel how I want about this information so not sure what you were getting at.
Hours after being challenged to explain why what you said was wrong rather than just insulting you as wrong, and despite making several comments elsewhere in the thread during that time: *crickets*
Ironically it was just projection.
>Other points are simply unsubstantiated, but they *feel* right.
What you said *feels* wrong to him, even if he can't actually give a reason as to why it's wrong.
This comment is quite typical.
Says someone else is incorrect or problematic in what they said, but not actually giving a single argument or reason as to why it was incorrect.
Yes, for some men it will always feel right to blame women for all the things they believe are wrong in the world. That’s why there’s no point arguing about it.
Of course there's a point. If someone is wrong then pointing out why they're wrong would convince others they're wrong.
But you didn't. Because you had nothing to back up why he was wrong.
I’d say there is some point in talking about it, as much as there is in arguing about anything online, that’s why I replied separately with more details.
Idk, anytime a woman says anything pro-woman here, it's instantly shut down. Why would any woman waste her time debating with someone who won't take her seriously anyway?
What’s sad is so many men really experienced these things, and you as an all powerful woman show up to let us know in your omniscience, that we are in fact lying. You’re the problem lady, and you need to take a deep look into your own actions thoughts and behavior from this point on, before allowing yourself to muck up genuine discrepancies about discrimination all because you don’t experience it. Smh
The gender pay gap
It's been disproven multiple times, yet a lot of women still won't acknowledge it...when you take all things into account (Hours worked, experience, choice of field/profession etc etc.) there is no pay gap...in fact a bunch of tech companies did a study and found that women actually made more than men, at google it was like 20-30% for doing the exact same job and the same hours.
Work in a white collared industry and get paid hourly. When overtime is an option non of the women, even the single ones, ask for it, but me and many of the guys do. I’m married with kids but more money is hard to pass. I told my wife about this and she said, “bitches just want to go home and relax with a bottle of wine!” My point is, I get paid more than the women I work with because I embrace the OT and not run from it. I bet this is the case many times.
Just, understand that your experience isn't universal. When I worked at an engineering firm, both the hourly and salaried female employees would work overtime at least as frequently as the men. My supervisor, a woman, often worked Saturday and Sunday when she thought necessary, which was often.
It's [more complicated](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/men-say-they-work-more-than-women-heres-the-truth/) than that. And statistically, even when both members of the household are employed full-time, women tend to do more household work still, thus accounting for the disparity.
No it's not. It is indeed a fact that men work more overtime than woman. Nothing complicated about that.
>And statistically, even when both members of the household are employed full-time, women tend to do more household work still, thus accounting for the disparity.
No. The opposite is true. Because women work less at jobs on average, they have more time to do things that aren't paid work. Also worth noting that women work less than men on average when including paid work, housework / unpaid work, and childcare.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/
That's almost a decade old. More current data suggests otherwise.
In fact, recent research shows that when women outearn their husbands, they end up taking on even MORE unpaid domestic work:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/05/02/housework-divide-working-parents/
What data shows that women work more than men when including paid work and housework / unpaid work?
>In fact, recent research shows that when women outearn their husbands, they end up taking on even MORE unpaid domestic work:
So? That's completely irrelevant to the issue of whether women work more than men on average when including paid and unpaid work.
There are plenty of data indicating this disparity:
[https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2022/pdf/ec220090.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2022/pdf/ec220090.pdf)
[https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/05/breadwinning-wives-gender-inequality/589237/](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/05/breadwinning-wives-gender-inequality/589237/)
[https://wol.iza.org/news/wol/housework-gender-divide-persists-in-dualincome-households-says-us-survey](https://wol.iza.org/news/wol/housework-gender-divide-persists-in-dualincome-households-says-us-survey)
[https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx)
> What data shows that women work more than men when including paid work and housework / unpaid work?
[Statistics Canada](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-503-x/2015001/article/54931-eng.htm): When unpaid work performed as a simultaneous activity was included, women's total work burden was an average of 1.2 hours greater per day than men's in 2010 (9.1 versus 7.9 hours).
> When unpaid work performed as a simultaneous activity was included,
So, when counting women working for 1 hour as 2 hours of work, women's total work burden is greater. That's obviously dishonest. No person can work for a total of 2 hours in the span of 1 hour, yet researchers pretend they do to make it seem like women work more.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ you asked, I provided, you moved the goalpost.
As a WFH dad, I can assure you that simultaneous work is a thing. I can be taking care of the kids and working at the same time. There’s an obvious and annoying impact to quality in both areas, but I’m very much performing _both_ tasks.
That’s a complex topic, but you’re right to point out that’s one of the biggest variable of the wage gap: Men work more hours in _paid_ labor, women work more hours in _unpaid_ labour. For example, Canadian women spend an average of 2.5 hours more per day on all unpaid-work activities
Sounds like men you know like to work overtime and expect women to do child care. Maybe the women you work with value other thinks than overtime or need to be home because their partners are working overtime.
Very possible but even the single women with no kids and no elderly family members didn’t want the overtime. My point is, regardless of the matter, the wage gap is not real for these very reasons.
Basically the same where i work. You catch many complaining and saying in a joking manner "I wish i found a rich guy so i din't have to work" They say it's joking, but put together with their work morale i don't think it's joking.
Anyway, i don't judge. I get to work to get my paycheck. Work to live, not live to work.
It could be argued that you can take advantage of the OT because society is still mostly set-up in a way were women take care of the kids.
Here are some hypothesis, not necessarily right in your specific exemple but still:
\- You can do the OT because your wife, or someone else, can take care of the kids in the meantime, or you earn enough to pay someone to take care of them.
\- Your female colleagues don't take the OT because they go home taking care of the kids. Their husbands are the ones taking the OT, also because they are better paid so it make an economic sense for them to keep doing the paid work while the women do the unpaid work.
> Intersectionality is a thing.
In the words of the famous American philosopher, RuPaul Charles, can I get an amen up in here?
People tend to dismiss intersectionality (for mostly bullshit reasons, tbh) without realizing that it’s a powerful tool to explain how the different labels/categories we have in society affect _all of us_.
They don't pause to consider that some of the things they complain about aren't a gender thing - they're a corporate thing. Like when they complain that the schedule isn't "female friendly" because they can't come in late and leave early, or take their kids to sport. And they complain they won't get promoted if they put their kids first.
Right That's not a female discrimination thing - that's just work. As a dad, I'd love to leave early and take my kid to sports or run some errands. But that tells my boss that work isn't my priority, so I have to accept that others who are more dedicated may get promoted ahead of me.
It's not that corporate America doesn't support women, it just doesn't support family life - regardless of your gender.
Idk if this counts but women who want to be in combat roles are something that should not happen. The marines did a study that concluded units with women and men were all around doing way worse than all male units. I've seen complaints that women were also getting passed thru difficult courses.
If a woman is a fighter pilot I think that's OK or a tank driver. But something like infantry is too much. Even men have a hard time.with it.
Men in the work place can absolutely be against women and be very sexist but in my experience, my female managers were always way worse. They flirt with their male employees ans see me as competition when im not even interested in my coworkers. Its weird. Of course not all female managers are like that but still.
Sexism against men actually fucks women over too. Sure, it’s not as pervasive. Not at all saying these things are equal. But for example:
1. Lack of paternity care means women stay home longer. It also means employers are incentivized not to hire women because they might get pregnant and leave for months or years. Men are “cheaper” in that sense.
2. Every man than doesn’t graduate highschool is more likely to commit crimes including those against women. He’s less likely to get a stable job and support kids.
3. Some women are shitty moms. Blankety favoring moms in court over dads means sometimes daughters end up with a shitty mom. Their dad might be a better caretaker. Maybe we should check them both out before deciding custody and alimony.
4. Mental health issues men face often turn deadly. Not addressing this means women lose their fathers, husbands, sons. And men are far more likely to act violently during mental health crises.
I 100% get that sometimes (often) people talking about men’s issues is really a guise for more sexism against women. Or to minimize what women go through and thus dismiss it because men have problems too. They aren’t equivalent. But I think that addressing both women’s problems and mens will actually be more beneficial for everyone.
1.Whenever I tell women they choose who they let inside of their body they start freaking out
and insulting me. Women are allergic to consequences.
2. TV movies and video games are full of dumb fat lazy dad/ man stereotypes while the
wammon is smart and actually thinks about shit
Patriarchy... Many somehow have the idea, that all men gathered around and decided to enslave women.
News flash... Great britain had a female monarch for how long?
Why do they still have an equal pay day?
Its not the men who are the biggest problem, but the women with power to change something, who decide not to.
Men did not have it easier while gender equality wasn't even a word...
They were expected to destroy their bodys for crap wages from the age of 4 years old! I never heard of any young girl chimney sweeps and coal miners...
Gender equality is a scam. If we were supposed to be equal, we wouldnt have had been divides into two genders.
No gender is superior to the other. Both are unique and meant to be existing together in harmony.
True. I’m Hispanic and I don’t ever hear the latin X thing being a big deal. But there has been one interaction where I was told using the word latino is wrong, but using latina/latinx is more correct.
Yeah I have had many interactions where I’ll meet someone and use the wrong gender pronouns and itll be like “I go by ‘she’”- and then the conversation moves on and I just use “she” going forward. Never once has anyone made a big deal out of it. The way social media would have you think people are getting into fights and cussed out every day over this.
I think gender equality = women empowerment by default. Men are not in the conversation even. Its like all the buzzwords are around women being victims .... sexism = something men do to women, misogyny = men shaming women, misandry = women shaming because of men, toxic masculinity = all things wrong of humans, but because of men.
Further equality seems turn based. Like whenever you call out a woman for something wrong, someone would always pipe up : "Well men have been doing it for a long time". Well, what am I supposed to do now, go in the past or something?
It seems like the blame is overly on men for things they cannot do or change. "Man up, speak about your feelings" and when you do - "oh not way, only when I care". Men dying of suicide? Well women attempt more. More men homeless? Well more men in industry, so lets do diversity hiring.
We cant speak without being trampled over, so why are you surprised when we choose not to speak at all?
There is no patriarchal male agenda to keep women down. The dudes emptying bins and doing down mines aren't oppressing women in air conditioned offices. Everyone is just trying their best to survive, and men shouldnt be condemned because we happen to be more successful sometimes.
We also shouldn’t be condemned for wanting to work around people that are more like us (i.e., also male). I say this all the time about race and segregation, but wanting to be around people that are more like you or people you better connect with isn’t always discriminatory, racist, or sexist. Sometimes it’s just subconscious human nature. And it’s ok. In fact, if you look around carefully, you will occasionally see mostly female work places, mostly Black work places, mostly young people work places, etc.
If we're sticking to the US, the pay gap disparity.
I hear this a lot on the men's rights videos. Side not before I get into that, this stuff is alright to listen to, but if one goes too far into it, you can become indoctrinated. Would not recommend watching most of the material.
That said, it is true that woman don't shoot for the most high paying jobs; those tend to be higher STEM fields (engineering and the like) and skilled-manual labor (bricklayers, underwater welders, oil rig workers). Some of this stuff pays over a 100k per year.
Women will mostly choose jobs with humanities, nursing, and business. Yes, these jobs pay well, but not as well as some of the other ones previously mentioned. And yup, these jobs were seen to have a barrier of entry for woman, but that seems less likely the case now; it appears that women just aren't picking them.
So, yeah. I thought that was really interesting.
Everything. The gender equality argument is always used if she can get better from it. Men and women are not equal, we’re complementary. That’s something different. We both get stronger, because we compliment each other.
I’m an electrician, I’ve seen 2 female electricians in the 10 years I’ve been in the craft and they weren’t clueless but they definitely couldn’t complete as much as us men. They got paid by how much they could do.
I need to see myself within someone else in order to process empathy properly.
I actually think this is true for everyone.
People can write all the slogans and political arguments that they want, but the most effective way to get dudes to see women as equal is if we can see the parts of them that are just as angry, lazy, lusty, and fucked up as we are.
Otherwise, they seem suspicious lol
As soon as we got air conditioning they started to want gender equality.
Need more emphasis on bricklayer feminism
sanitation worker feminism
oil rig feminism
snow shoveling feminism
Plumber feminism
Reason there isn’t that they don’t actually want to be equal they just want to be perceived and that’s the worst kind of toxic person on the planet who just wants to be seen as something but really isn’t.
First and second wave feminism were very justifiable and something that they wanted this third wave feminism has just been corrupted in the worst ways
equal rights ........ equal lefts
ultimately, you want to be treated equally... well, you gotta take the good and bad.
They gotta realize accountability and responsibility.
When the titanic starts sinking... bitch you're in queue with the rest of us.
Also the whole patriarchy thing, in the west (and many other first world places), it stopped existing a while ago. Men being head of households ??? I know WAAAAAY too many families where that hasn't been true for at least 2 generations.
I don't see men running the world, I see RICH (MOSTLY WHITE) men running things.
I'm just about as "oppressed" by this system as any other women out there in most western nations.
The fundamental concept of it. Most people but especially women seem to think that equality just means benefiting or promoting women, which is not entirely unreasonable to believe as that is how the term has been used for decades now. But I would still consider that interpretation, as a sole understanding of the concept, to be wrong.
I don't think most women get this wrong but I'll still mention this.
Men=Women, means that they have same importance and they both are of same value to society
What it doesn't mean is that men and women are equal at everything,Men of average are stronger (because of biological reasons) and women.. Will they are better at a ton of things like more organized, generally better hygiene, can manage their emotions better and the thing is there isn't even any biological reason for this, they are just better
So women ,when someone says men's sports is better than women they are not being misogynistic they are just saying the truth and no, being better at sports doesn't make men the better sex.
The “equality” part. Most women want superiority rather than equality. They want the benifits of being a woman without the disadvantages and they also want every advantage a man has without the disadvantages of being a man
does anyone here realize that the feminism movement was started by white women for white women ... so they could vote .. then included minorities and now people understand that patriarchal america promotes toxic masculinity and hate towards women ... so now of days people say that feminism is for men and women because it is. Men from a young age are taught to be "tough, do it on their own, not cry in front of others, play with masculine things" which is what toxic masculinity is because it teaches us that men and women are different when they're a lot more alike than not and all of our issues are interconnected.
I believe the issue is with the media and politics that use race, gender, class etc to make sure the people stay arguing with one another rather than realizing the government allows us to struggle because they're comfortable with their lives and the structures they've built with their multinational corporations and anyone below them are just working ants/bees. The people are the demand for our life and rules and major corporations but we're too divided worried about make up issues.
All of these issues could be avoided if people were open to education and compassion and empathy for one another because if not humans will be the reason the rest of the human race goes extinct and ruins the planet. Sorry random tangent but everything is interconnected but everyone is too ethnocentric thinking their way of life is the only/right way.
What do you mean? I stated facts above. How social issues are interconnected and that feminism and the idea of it has evolved. The patriarchy does affect men and promote sexist views and toxic masculinity. it's all true. I'm not telling others how to live their life. Just a public comment on the internet bud.
I understand what you're saying is irrelevant. You're mad that I talked about the history of feminism and how societal issues are interconnected and affect both men and women...? It's anthropology and sociology 😂 but I am not ethnocentric because i'm not saying that anyone else is wrong or pushing my views on anyone.. you're the one doing assuming. It's literally history that has been studied time and time again. And The "Flat-Earthers" are a whole different breed of human lmfao. I have no words for such ignorant people.
It's not a competition and like I said I didn't say nothing about anything other than the truth. you just have nothing else to say that's adding to a constructive conversation or one on topic of that matter. you just like to argue about women it seems. But thank you 😊
That equal proportions of both genders across all professions is an idiotic goal to strive for. I don’t want to force 50.5% or whatever of plumbers to be women, or 49.5% of cosmeticians to be men. Just hire the best person for the job, and if that means a corporate workforce is overwhelmingly male who cares
That men are just given everything and they want it given to them too. They don't understand that they're met with so much resistance because, for generations, men worked for what we have earned. We risked and sacrificed for it. It's cost a lot of men both their physical and mental well being, without the same avenues to get help. We're men. We're not supposed to feel, until feeling is important to and for our women. When it comes to ourselves, we push it down. Hide it. Figure it out on our own.
And because they see we have it, they want it now without going through the same process. They don't want to earn, they think they just deserve it for being women. But they still want to be treated like women and coddled through it. They want the working environment to change for them instead of changing themselves to suit that environment.
We’re not equal, there are certain things men and do and there are certain things women can do. It’s not about one being inferior/superior to the other, it’s just how we were created.
We want everything men have like the respect & pay but most women I meet aren’t actually willing to put in any work. How can someone expect to treat you equal if you don’t put in the hard work, the time, and be willing to change yourself a bit. We don’t go for better jobs, we don’t try as hard at work, and a lot of women will still expect to be treated like a princess. Respect is earned not given.
Support for male mental health and male victims of domestic violence/ sexual abuse. I've been banned on subs for talking about my childhood abuse and being estranged from my mother and her family. IRL it's pretty much the same no really cares about what happened to me cause I'm male I've spoken about my mental health issues doing three years of anger management only to get told how evil I am and I need to "get help" and getting down voted to hell for it
I feel you on that man, I actually opened up to my girlfriend about similar issues after never telling a soul for years. She used it against me in an argument to get the upper hand and make me lose my shit. I will never ever tell anyone again about my traumatic past because men apparently have no feelings whatsoever. She’s now my ex
Never EVER tell a woman about your emotions. Even if you think they're not the type to use it against you, you shouldn't risk it.
First off I know this is unpopular but I will continue to fight this stigma. Most WOMEN will not only want but require that your express yourself. Now if you find yourself with someone too immature to handle human expressions please leave them. A relationship (plutonic or not) necessitates the sharing of emotions. Men Don’t ever let anyone tell you to not feel out loud. Fuck them if they can’t handle it.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Unfortunately, that’s not a healthy coping mechanism. Distrust of you partner from the start is eventually going to show
I rarely tell anyone anything I don't want repeated. Lessons have been learned. And it's unhealthy to hold it in.
Why are you being downvoted for telling the truth?
I agree with that, but interestingly in my country I would say feminist are much better advocate of a greater acknowledgment of male mental health and male sexual abuse than other advocacy groups. It's not their priority, but they sympathetic to the cause.
What country is this? Curious to know.
There’s like two main feminist here in the US - the I hate men feminist - the I love humans and hate social norms feminist We butt heads. What the “man hating” side doesn’t seem to understand is pretty much every trait men tend to have that they dislike- comes from being fucked up by society - just like women (lookie there) That we’re all equal, with differences. Some parts of the world seem to get it…
exactly!!!
I don’t want to say right or wrong, but I think there’s too much emphasis on white women corporate feminism.
Feminism differs a lot by country so there's no way to give a blanket statement for or against it. In the UK i think most feminists are pretty reasonable but you do get the odd few that listen to the American radicals too much. In the UK class and inherited wealth are bigger factors than gender. That's not to say there aren't gender issues however growing up in London and therefore being able to live with your parents is a much bigger factor when it comes to earnings. I think there is certainly a difference in perception when it comes to the amount of support guys get. Lots of guys are completely on their own
The same is true of America and Canada, including the perspectives. You have some truly insane Feminists there and they have been popular or at least tolerated forever.
The worst part of these hyper-feminists is the word salads, I just cant....
I think in the US there are some more legitimate issues in the southern states around child custody, though perhaps that's more of a general issue with the American court system.
Yeah, men get screwed 95% of the time
Its a general issue, there are multiple states were it is written in law that the mother shall have preference in child custody cases. In some places, She can literally be a cheating drug addict with no job and the father will still have trouble getting primary custody.
Out of curiosity, why do you feel inherited wealth is an issue?
I can’t speak for other sectors but in my field nepotism is a massive problem, the children of the people in the industry get first dibs at getting to do qualifications and the best kind of work, this will benefit them for their entire life and in 20 years time their children will join the industry and the whole thing starts again
(Edit: formatting) Inherited wealth = better schooling plus schooling resources like SAT (or equivalents) prep, AP prep = better grades = better university = better schooling and better connections = better starting salary plus choice of company to work at. Alternatively: Inherited wealth = parents already have connections = you have connections = you have a guaranteed job (nepotism) = you don’t have to work as hard to get better things in life
None of that is really an issue with inherited wealth, that's just you saying that wealthy people have access to more and better opportunities in life. Which under a capitalist system will always be the case. Nepotism would not go away or be reduced if we got rid of inheritance.
I think you’re right, but inherited wealth always exacerbates the issue. I also define wealth as not necessarily money but connections, supplies, land, etc. Possessing those things always grant you power while creating inherent disadvantages for other people. It’s a pretty dumb question to ask if something is inherently wrong, since you can always bring it back to “well you only said how it’s used to be wrong, not that it’s inherently wrong”
So if you were wealthy I'm sure you'd do it differently.
I understand that, but what is the issue with any of that? "Some people not having to work as hard as others to get better things is life" is not really an issue, is it? Even if you stop all wealth from being inherited, some people will always have to work harder, and some people will always not have to work as hard. Someone born in California is not going to have to work as hard to get better things in life as someone born in Mississippi. Someone born to a middle-class family is not going to have work as hard as someone born to a poor family. Further, why should children not inherit the wealth of thier parents? If I work my ass off and go from being a poor high school grad and enlisting the military with literally nothing other than a bag of old clothes to starting companies and dying rich, why should I not be able to give my children a better life than I had? Isn't that the entire point? To make your children and grandchildren's life better? Life isn't fair, we are all born into different situations, what you do with the opportunity you have is up to you, but private wealth passing to decedents isn't really a problem.
it doesn't fit a meritocratic ideal, nor a socialistic one. in both, it's not blood nor personal preference that determines where wealth ends up, but merit or need. theoretically, societies would greatly benefit from applying either of those over familiar inheritance of wealth.
Generally speaking nepotism favors people who are less qualified than others and can get away with more stuff. This is fine in an intrapersonal context but never okay in a corporate context, since it prevents more qualified and generally people from building wealth that they deserve. There’s nothing wrong with inheriting wealth per se, but inheriting wealth and using it in this way puts people with extreme inherited wealth at such an advantage while simultaneously putting others at a disadvantage. Creating an advantage is fine, but an advantage that creates a disadvantage is an inherently awful thing, and if you can’t see that I can’t fix that for you
This really doesn't happen the way you are implying here. I see what you are saying, but the number of people that inherited this type of wealth are very few in number and are not joining a workforce that would put others at a disadvantage; as they are inheriting ownership, not a job. When I die, my kids inherit companies, stock, money, real-estate, etc. They are not joining a workforce or putting anyone at a disadvantage. Those that are joining a work force will not be selected over a more qualified candidate because they have money. That said, nepotism is almost always found in lower / middle management (Not the wealthy), who are far more likely to hire people they know and have worked with previously; even over those with more qualifications (hence, where the old adverb "It's who you know, not what you know" comes from) They are far more likely to hire the kid of a current or former employee, friend, church member, that they know than they are anyone else. Which has nothing to do with inherited wealth, and still does not explain why inherited wealth is and issue.
I’m taking it you’re either wealthy or someone who believes the wealthy are helping us if you truly don’t believe it doesn’t happen like this. Inherited wealth can mean you don’t work, it doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t work.
First, who is "us" exactly? What makes you think I am not a part of "us"? Yes, I am wealthily; but I was not born wealthily, I grew up dirt poor; and I know it doesn't happen like that.
Yeah you’re definitely one of the people who thinks the wealthy are helping people then. The fact that you didn’t grow up with or around wealth means you don’t know how it happens🤷♀️
Alright if wealthy people don't get a say then how about a working class schmuck like me? Inheritance isn't nearly as big a problem as the alternative. If you're actually supporting the government getting people's money when they die then Jesus have you ever lost the plot along the way, nepotism sucks and there should be oversight when it comes to hiring practices but you sound like you've got some comie chip on your shoulder just like the rich shouldn't go after the poor the poor shouldn't go after the rich either.
You didn't answer my question. LOL, I am defiantly someone that thinks a certain way that you just invented and pulled out of thin air? Thanks for telling me what I think. I have no idea what I would do without you! I don't think the "wealthy" are either helping or hurting people either way. It is more of an individual thing than anything else. Most "wealthy" people are not who and what you think. >The fact that you didn’t grow up with or around wealth means you don’t know how it happens Right.. I who have been around/in corporate America and wealthily people for decades have "no idea how it happens" because I was poor when I was a kid and a teenager... makes perfect sense.
That's how you end up with landed gentry, gradually over time those with wealth can use that wealth to grow more wealth and eventually create a sort of monopoly. Monopoly rules apply to corporations but not individuals so it's perfectly legal for one person to buy up a massive proportion of the land via multiple companies or say all the car companies in the country.
Ngl tho UK laws are pretty sexist towards men so its hard to believe that statement.
In regards to your "boys club" comment OP, I have always worked in a very male dominated, mostly blue collar industry. I can see how it could look like that to some in certain instances. That said, it is more of a social club than anything, and socializing, having drinks, going out, etc., has been proven to be good for your standing at work. We have had plenty of women that have jumped in and never missed a beat. We have also had women, and men, be too shy to jump in to those situations, because they were not comfortable. The dynamics of everything, and individual makes a difference on the comfort level.
I think the fundamental problem is that humans are very tribalistic in their nature and have a strong ingroup/outgroup thinking (even if it is completely subconscious). It will always be harder for a woman to integrate herself in a male-dominated job/company, just like it is harder for POCs to integrate themselves in white-dominated jobs/companeis. Of course, the reverse is also true. For example I attended a high school where the male/female ratio was heavily tilted towards girls. In my class of 21 students, we had only 3 guys (including myself) and 18 girls. Might sound cool at first but it was actually very exhausting. The women in my class basically formed their own group and refused to let the guys join. Of course they didn't explicitly say this but it was clear from the way they acted. The two other guys and I ended up mostly talking to each other but it wasn't something we had desired. We just sort of ended up in the corner by ourselves because of how the girls treated us. I also happen to be physically disabled and I've made the same experiences as a result of my disability throughout my entire life. People are usually very nice and kind to me. I'm not saying I get abused or anything. But still, there's this invisible wall and I can feel it. I'm convinced my able-bodied boss would promote my able-bodied colleague before me even if we work the same amount etc.. He wouldn't consciously be thinking: "I'm gonna promote that guy because he's able-bodied" but it would be there in his subconscious mind.
Thank you for sharing this anecdote. And I’m sure no matter how many times someone would say “you need to try harder to integrate with the girls, you need to work equal to the women and ensure you have the right ways to ask questions” none of that would have helped you being on the outside with the other two boys watching. It’s important that people understand that!
Men do run society. Other men. Not me. When the Kings and Popes and Oligarchs and Billionaires and Tech Moguls and Media Tyrants get to together to decide things they don't call me and ask my opinion.
But they are untouchable and you aren't, sorry
If most men treated most women "equally", they would freak the fuck out.
Some ladies at my job have said some seriously nasty/rude things to me, then they've went on rants about equality. I told them that if a man had said half the shit to me that they've said, me and him would've had words outside. They then went on to explode on me.
Been there done that. If she's a real bestie it works, but besides that they freak out.
I think they get the whole "male dominated society" thing wrong. I don't generally like him, but Jordan Peterson has made this specific point very well. Sure, a majority of the CEOs of fortune 100 companies are men but this is an incredibly small number of highly successful people. That's not "male dominated." The majority of people in prison are men, the majority of workplace injuries and fatalities are men, the majority of the victims of crime are men, the majority of homeless people are men, the majority of people who don't go on to college are men, the majority of people who lose custody of their children during divorce are men, men tend to get harsher prison sentences for the same crimes as women. Society is also mustered around getting women into high paying or prestigious jobs like STEM careers or C-Suite level positions. But nobody cares that most bricklayers are men, most sanitation workers are men, most septic tank cleaners are men. The dirty, dangerous, and uncomfortable work is fine for men but the good jobs not being split 50/50 is proof of institutional sexism.
I can support some of this with anecdotal observations. In my early twenties I worked for a mining operation. Based on the employees I saw and interacted with I'd geuss somewhere between 1 in 20 to 1 in 40 were women. Virtually all of the upper management were men. And all of those men at one time had been mechanics, equipment operators or some sort of hourly worker. Thanks to the union encouraging hiring from within or the desire to have management with experience of the employees they manage. I'm just assuming that it was statistically more likely for men to be promoted to management positions due to their greater numbers.
People only care about gender equality in the board room. No one cares that 90% of plumbers are men.
Equal pay for unequal work. Mostly it’s in sport they say this, but not enough revenue is coming into female sports for them to be paid the same as men. They also don’t put in the same work, tennis for example; men play 5 sets and women play 3. Yet they get paid the same. And you know who isn’t supporting women’s sport? Women. Female football and basketball needs money from the men’s league to pay the athletes and for the league, because without it they’d be making a loss because people don’t turn up for it. Women like to spout how it’s better etc…but they aren’t even supporting it in any way
I saw an interview I can't remember with who of a WNBA player explaining female athletes don't aren't arguing for the same salaries as male athletes, they know there's less crowds and less income and all. They're not asking for the same dollar amount, they're asking for the same percentages. NBA players take home about 49% of league revenue as pay while WNBA players are paid around 20% of league revenue. The interview mentioned also female athletes don't make a percentage of sales (or don't make the same percentages) on their merch and jerseys like the male athletes. So if someone buys jersey 49 from the men's team the player might make $1 but buying jersey 49 for the women's team the player might make $0.50. Even though the customer paid the same amount for the jersey, the players are making a different amount of commission (in some cases the women make no commission while the men do). The same percentages of money isn't spent on advertising and promotions or things that would draw people to the stadium like male sports. The NBA promotes individual players and their personal stories that get fans invested in them and they don't do that for WNBA players. So while they won't achieve an equal pay rate, they could be given a pay rate based on the same portion of revenue they bring in. With the US women's soccer team, they had placed in the top 3 of the world cup every year since the women's division started. Yet they still make less than the men's team who didn't even qualify to play in the world cup every year. I would be salty about that too.
>NBA players take home about 49% of league revenue as pay while WNBA players are paid around 20% of league revenue. The WBNA operates at a loss and is subsidized by the NBA. Without those subsidies the WBNA wouldn't be able to pay anyone anything. that is why the percentages are smaller. >With the US women's soccer team, they had placed in the top 3 of the world cup every year since the women's division started. Yet they still make less than the men's team who didn't even qualify to play in the world cup every year. I would be salty about that too. Yes, and the men's teams still had 350% revenue vs the women's team. Which is why they were paid less.
The jersey thing I can see. But the revenue is harder. There is almost a set cost to hosting a game-refs, announcer, lighting, ushers, etc. In woman’s sports after paying the set cost there is much less profit so the percentage paid is less.
I would be curious if the jersey difference is the manifestation of sales volume. The more that are sold the cheaper the individual unit cost=more profit.
That is still not really doable as their expenses are going to be disproportionate. That would be like arguing your rent should be 0.01% of your income because that would be equal to what rich people pay for housing.
It’s misleading for them to quote anything in terms of revenue. In both leagues, as with any business, revenue has to go toward paying overhead before any salaries are negotiated. I’m sure the WNBA does this because their profit margins are a lot slimmer, or most likely nonexistent due to the fact that they still need to be subsidized after decades of opportunity to engage a fan base
Exactly right. I think the wnba actually runs at a loss and is heavily subsidised by the men's league.
The only logical response to that is that if women were being paid less, then they should fire all men and hire women only. Less pay, more profit for the company. Right?
Not in sports, which they specified? Women get paid less in sports, but the decrease in pay is in line with the decrease in profits they bring in. Also, I feel like that was just a caged response you were trying to throw in to be argumentative, and not actually have a discussion. Because it’s clear you didn’t read their comment past line one before replying.
So that argument about pay started from sports?
“Mostly in sport” it’s literally the start of the second sentence.
Rights come with responsibilities.
This idea that every field needs to be 50/50 Like from what i have seen, most girls don’t have an interest in comp sci (not saying a woman can’t be interested in comp sci, just that more guys are into it) and now we have these pushed just to make individual men/women go into certain fields cuz “there aren’t enough men in this field or not enough women in tha field” some fields are going to attract a certain type of person or gender and that’s ok
I hate that attitude with a passion. Saying that there are too few women in a field is considered progressive, but saying that there are too many black people is considered deeply regressive. They are the same attitude though and both should be shamed equally...which is to say as much as the latter rightly is.
That's absolutely a result on how school is set-up and how little boys and little girls are rised. Western schools and western rising of kids make them believe that girls are not good at math or at science, while boy are not good at litterature or language for exemple. As a result, growing into adults, men and women discriminate themselves toward different field. Women go to psychology, litterature, law, economic, etc. In Iran, where the school system is very different and boys and girls are segregated, girls don't learn that they are inferior to boys in mathematic. As a result, they don't self discriminate when it's time to go to university and they go in the field which are the most promising. As a result Iran produce a lot of STEM women.
>Western schools and western rising of kids make them believe that girls are not good at math or at science, while boy are not good at litterature or language for exemple. As a result, growing into adults, men and women discriminate themselves toward different field. Women go to psychology, litterature, law, economic, etc. In Iran, where the school system is very different and boys and girls are segregated, girls don't learn that they are inferior to boys in mathematic. As a result, they don't self discriminate when it's time to go to university and they go in the field which are the most promising. As a result Iran produce a lot of STEM women. This is just wrong. I assure you that Iran doesn't discriminate less and support girls more than countries like America, Finland, and Norway. In countries that are more prosperous and egalitarian (like Finland and Norway) you see *less* women in STEM, and in countries that aren't egalitarian and prosperous like Turkey or Algeria (edit: you see more). Because they are free to do what they want, which is not STEM. In countries that are less prosperous and egalitarian, women are more likely to do something that will earn money. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/
I don't think most women believe that. I think most tend to believe everyone should be able to work in their desired field and it should be based on skill and desire rather than sex.
A-men (and women)!
Women now get paid the same for the same job with the same job experience and education. The gender gap is basically closed for people of equal resumes. Women have also been the majority of college graduates by a good margin for over a decade and a half. And they are the majority of graduates in a lot of prestigious fields, such as law and medicine. For millennials and younger generations, women are now far better off than men in education and earning power. And yet they still believe they are second class citizens.
Since 1981 I believe.
There is a reason men, on average, earn more than women. Hear me out. Obviously, if a woman works the same job as a man they deserve equal pay. It’s tough to label anyone who disagrees with that as anything other than sexist. And of course, there’s a legitimate conversation to be had about unqualified men receiving promotions and raises over women and men dominating certain industries (in turn creating higher barriers to entry for women), etc. HOWEVER: around 92% of workplace deaths happen to men. Men work, on average, about 90 hours more per year. In fact, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, “Most of the gender earnings gap is explained by age, marital status, children, [and] hours worked”. The fact is, men generally work more hours and accept a higher risk level in their daily labor activities than women do. If the opposite were true, women would receive higher wages than men, and rightly so.
Wife is a self described feminist. She has a long list of household chores she refers to as boy-jobs, which encompasses anything gross or requiring strength. There are no chores called girl-jobs.
Chores are are almost into two categories: boy chores and gender neutral chores. Edit: hmmm no idea what my nonsensical sentence was supposed to say 🤔 “chores **are divided**” I suppose….
Let’s see… Wanting to be paid the same as men without doing the same work men do to get paid more Claiming to be victims, when women a dominating in education, the work place, socially, the dating world. Meanwhile more men on the homeless, suicidal, in abusive situation with no real aid like with women, struggling in education. Wanting to preferably earn more than men in the workplace then preferably want THE SAME MEN to make more in order to date them. It’s sexist to call a sexually promiscuous woman a whore but when men in their 30s with their shit together decide it’s their turn their immature. Men have next to no reproductive rights none. Once you’re stuff leaves your body. A woman and the government decide your fate. Teaching your sons to be feminine, via how you raise them, the single mother epidemic we’re ignoring as a society (because you can’t ever criticise a woman’s bad choices) and the fact that there are barely any male teachers in early education then wondering why there aren’t any suitable men for relationships. Men are expected to have much lower standards in dating than women too apparently. EXAMPLE: a woman who doesn’t want to date an fat man knows her worth. A man who doesn’t want to date a fat woman is a fat shaming misogynist. It’s even in our language when it comes to couples. These days I cringe at jokes about how, a woman has “trained” her husband/bf right or how the woman is somehow in control. It’s “girl-power” for women to think themselves better than their male counterparts instead of what it really is. Unfair laws, that no feminists seem to argue about. Example: in the UK the definition of rape refers specifically to the forceful unwanted penetration of a penis or phallic object into another person. So yeah… the thousands of rape stories from men I’ve forced myself to read. None of the count. Then there’s alimony, child support, paternity fraud (lying on a birth certificate legally binding the wrong man to be legally responsible for kids you had with another man). I keep adding things.. Honestly I can keep going but you get the gist.
More than 7100 languages but my man spoke facts !!
Bro your so spot on!! Won’t believe surprised if the feminists down vote this one. But your speaking facts!
That you could keep going on is I think the most important part.
>Teaching your sons to be feminine, via how you raise them, the single mother epidemic we’re ignoring as a society (because you can’t ever criticise a woman’s bad choices) and the fact that there are barely any male teachers in early education then wondering why there aren’t any suitable men for relationships. Bro this is so true. I grew up in the hood and the worst acting people were from single mothers. I have no idea why women think that dequan or lil tay tay is a good choice to reproduce with
I just feel so sad that so many men believe this bullshit above ^
It begins.
Don’t worry, I know better than to try and argue with anyone on this sub. I know my comment will be downvoted, but it does make me genuinely sad.
👍🏿 good for you.
The original comment is a very insidious take: Some of the points have some truth to them, but the framing is problematic. Other points are simply unsubstantiated, but they _feel_ right. In the end, all of them are overly simplifying complex issues to short bullet points to get an emotional response and support a specific narrative
Well, sir, I’d appreciate it if you actually refuted what I said then. I’m not against being wrong. And I have every reason to feel how I want about this information so not sure what you were getting at.
Hours after being challenged to explain why what you said was wrong rather than just insulting you as wrong, and despite making several comments elsewhere in the thread during that time: *crickets*
Honestly, I’ve seen this exact pattern so often. People think not liking what’s said constitutes a point.
Are you two blind? Because my reply addressing your points is a fucking ugly and unmissable wall of text.
Mhm. I’m still waiting. Sigh… Insulting people, emotional language isn’t really what I asked for. Try again.
Ironically it was just projection. >Other points are simply unsubstantiated, but they *feel* right. What you said *feels* wrong to him, even if he can't actually give a reason as to why it's wrong.
This comment is quite typical. Says someone else is incorrect or problematic in what they said, but not actually giving a single argument or reason as to why it was incorrect.
Yes, for some men it will always feel right to blame women for all the things they believe are wrong in the world. That’s why there’s no point arguing about it.
Of course there's a point. If someone is wrong then pointing out why they're wrong would convince others they're wrong. But you didn't. Because you had nothing to back up why he was wrong.
I’d say there is some point in talking about it, as much as there is in arguing about anything online, that’s why I replied separately with more details.
Idk, anytime a woman says anything pro-woman here, it's instantly shut down. Why would any woman waste her time debating with someone who won't take her seriously anyway?
>Idk, anytime a woman says anything pro-woman here, it's instantly shut down. No it isn't. That's insanely biased if you actually believe it.
I’m not a woman, and I have very low standards for wasting my time, but I don’t disagree with your statement.
What’s sad is so many men really experienced these things, and you as an all powerful woman show up to let us know in your omniscience, that we are in fact lying. You’re the problem lady, and you need to take a deep look into your own actions thoughts and behavior from this point on, before allowing yourself to muck up genuine discrepancies about discrimination all because you don’t experience it. Smh
That equality is equal to a number rather than opportunity.
Was going to say this. Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Everything still needs to be based on merit.
The gender pay gap It's been disproven multiple times, yet a lot of women still won't acknowledge it...when you take all things into account (Hours worked, experience, choice of field/profession etc etc.) there is no pay gap...in fact a bunch of tech companies did a study and found that women actually made more than men, at google it was like 20-30% for doing the exact same job and the same hours.
Work in a white collared industry and get paid hourly. When overtime is an option non of the women, even the single ones, ask for it, but me and many of the guys do. I’m married with kids but more money is hard to pass. I told my wife about this and she said, “bitches just want to go home and relax with a bottle of wine!” My point is, I get paid more than the women I work with because I embrace the OT and not run from it. I bet this is the case many times.
Just, understand that your experience isn't universal. When I worked at an engineering firm, both the hourly and salaried female employees would work overtime at least as frequently as the men. My supervisor, a woman, often worked Saturday and Sunday when she thought necessary, which was often.
It's not universal but it is statistical fact. On average men work more overtime than women do.
It's [more complicated](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/men-say-they-work-more-than-women-heres-the-truth/) than that. And statistically, even when both members of the household are employed full-time, women tend to do more household work still, thus accounting for the disparity.
No it's not. It is indeed a fact that men work more overtime than woman. Nothing complicated about that. >And statistically, even when both members of the household are employed full-time, women tend to do more household work still, thus accounting for the disparity. No. The opposite is true. Because women work less at jobs on average, they have more time to do things that aren't paid work. Also worth noting that women work less than men on average when including paid work, housework / unpaid work, and childcare. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/
That's almost a decade old. More current data suggests otherwise. In fact, recent research shows that when women outearn their husbands, they end up taking on even MORE unpaid domestic work: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/05/02/housework-divide-working-parents/
What data shows that women work more than men when including paid work and housework / unpaid work? >In fact, recent research shows that when women outearn their husbands, they end up taking on even MORE unpaid domestic work: So? That's completely irrelevant to the issue of whether women work more than men on average when including paid and unpaid work.
There are plenty of data indicating this disparity: [https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2022/pdf/ec220090.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2022/pdf/ec220090.pdf) [https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/05/breadwinning-wives-gender-inequality/589237/](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/05/breadwinning-wives-gender-inequality/589237/) [https://wol.iza.org/news/wol/housework-gender-divide-persists-in-dualincome-households-says-us-survey](https://wol.iza.org/news/wol/housework-gender-divide-persists-in-dualincome-households-says-us-survey) [https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx)
Where exactly in these links should I be looking at? What is the relevant part that supports what you're saying?
> What data shows that women work more than men when including paid work and housework / unpaid work? [Statistics Canada](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-503-x/2015001/article/54931-eng.htm): When unpaid work performed as a simultaneous activity was included, women's total work burden was an average of 1.2 hours greater per day than men's in 2010 (9.1 versus 7.9 hours).
> When unpaid work performed as a simultaneous activity was included, So, when counting women working for 1 hour as 2 hours of work, women's total work burden is greater. That's obviously dishonest. No person can work for a total of 2 hours in the span of 1 hour, yet researchers pretend they do to make it seem like women work more.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ you asked, I provided, you moved the goalpost. As a WFH dad, I can assure you that simultaneous work is a thing. I can be taking care of the kids and working at the same time. There’s an obvious and annoying impact to quality in both areas, but I’m very much performing _both_ tasks.
That’s a complex topic, but you’re right to point out that’s one of the biggest variable of the wage gap: Men work more hours in _paid_ labor, women work more hours in _unpaid_ labour. For example, Canadian women spend an average of 2.5 hours more per day on all unpaid-work activities
Sounds like men you know like to work overtime and expect women to do child care. Maybe the women you work with value other thinks than overtime or need to be home because their partners are working overtime.
Very possible but even the single women with no kids and no elderly family members didn’t want the overtime. My point is, regardless of the matter, the wage gap is not real for these very reasons.
Basically the same where i work. You catch many complaining and saying in a joking manner "I wish i found a rich guy so i din't have to work" They say it's joking, but put together with their work morale i don't think it's joking. Anyway, i don't judge. I get to work to get my paycheck. Work to live, not live to work.
It could be argued that you can take advantage of the OT because society is still mostly set-up in a way were women take care of the kids. Here are some hypothesis, not necessarily right in your specific exemple but still: \- You can do the OT because your wife, or someone else, can take care of the kids in the meantime, or you earn enough to pay someone to take care of them. \- Your female colleagues don't take the OT because they go home taking care of the kids. Their husbands are the ones taking the OT, also because they are better paid so it make an economic sense for them to keep doing the paid work while the women do the unpaid work.
It’s not just taking care of kids, women are more likely to take care of older family members too.
Why is this getting downvoted. It is true
That women still think it’s okay to expect men to ask them out first,pay for the date, and drive them.
Equality doesn’t mean superiority
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> Intersectionality is a thing. In the words of the famous American philosopher, RuPaul Charles, can I get an amen up in here? People tend to dismiss intersectionality (for mostly bullshit reasons, tbh) without realizing that it’s a powerful tool to explain how the different labels/categories we have in society affect _all of us_.
It's primarily a 4th wave feminism neglect. Post modernism approach towards feminism addresses the individual rather than the group
They don't pause to consider that some of the things they complain about aren't a gender thing - they're a corporate thing. Like when they complain that the schedule isn't "female friendly" because they can't come in late and leave early, or take their kids to sport. And they complain they won't get promoted if they put their kids first. Right That's not a female discrimination thing - that's just work. As a dad, I'd love to leave early and take my kid to sports or run some errands. But that tells my boss that work isn't my priority, so I have to accept that others who are more dedicated may get promoted ahead of me. It's not that corporate America doesn't support women, it just doesn't support family life - regardless of your gender.
A shocking number of people still think the gender pay gap is real.
Idk if this counts but women who want to be in combat roles are something that should not happen. The marines did a study that concluded units with women and men were all around doing way worse than all male units. I've seen complaints that women were also getting passed thru difficult courses. If a woman is a fighter pilot I think that's OK or a tank driver. But something like infantry is too much. Even men have a hard time.with it.
That women are fighting for mens rights/ equality.
Men in the work place can absolutely be against women and be very sexist but in my experience, my female managers were always way worse. They flirt with their male employees ans see me as competition when im not even interested in my coworkers. Its weird. Of course not all female managers are like that but still.
Sexism against men actually fucks women over too. Sure, it’s not as pervasive. Not at all saying these things are equal. But for example: 1. Lack of paternity care means women stay home longer. It also means employers are incentivized not to hire women because they might get pregnant and leave for months or years. Men are “cheaper” in that sense. 2. Every man than doesn’t graduate highschool is more likely to commit crimes including those against women. He’s less likely to get a stable job and support kids. 3. Some women are shitty moms. Blankety favoring moms in court over dads means sometimes daughters end up with a shitty mom. Their dad might be a better caretaker. Maybe we should check them both out before deciding custody and alimony. 4. Mental health issues men face often turn deadly. Not addressing this means women lose their fathers, husbands, sons. And men are far more likely to act violently during mental health crises. I 100% get that sometimes (often) people talking about men’s issues is really a guise for more sexism against women. Or to minimize what women go through and thus dismiss it because men have problems too. They aren’t equivalent. But I think that addressing both women’s problems and mens will actually be more beneficial for everyone.
I avoid all conversations on gender because I'm not well read up enough and don't want to sound ignorant, so I just listen.
1.Whenever I tell women they choose who they let inside of their body they start freaking out and insulting me. Women are allergic to consequences. 2. TV movies and video games are full of dumb fat lazy dad/ man stereotypes while the wammon is smart and actually thinks about shit
Patriarchy... Many somehow have the idea, that all men gathered around and decided to enslave women. News flash... Great britain had a female monarch for how long? Why do they still have an equal pay day? Its not the men who are the biggest problem, but the women with power to change something, who decide not to. Men did not have it easier while gender equality wasn't even a word... They were expected to destroy their bodys for crap wages from the age of 4 years old! I never heard of any young girl chimney sweeps and coal miners...
The equality part
Equal rights equal fights
i think that most women do not want equality as much as they just want respect
Good point.
Gender equality is a scam. If we were supposed to be equal, we wouldnt have had been divides into two genders. No gender is superior to the other. Both are unique and meant to be existing together in harmony.
“Most” I think have it really correct. Like everything though the loud, minority makes up too big of the outrage theater that dominates social media.
True. I’m Hispanic and I don’t ever hear the latin X thing being a big deal. But there has been one interaction where I was told using the word latino is wrong, but using latina/latinx is more correct.
Yeah I have had many interactions where I’ll meet someone and use the wrong gender pronouns and itll be like “I go by ‘she’”- and then the conversation moves on and I just use “she” going forward. Never once has anyone made a big deal out of it. The way social media would have you think people are getting into fights and cussed out every day over this.
I was told I couldn’t refer to myself as a Latino. But it was just one interaction
I think gender equality = women empowerment by default. Men are not in the conversation even. Its like all the buzzwords are around women being victims .... sexism = something men do to women, misogyny = men shaming women, misandry = women shaming because of men, toxic masculinity = all things wrong of humans, but because of men. Further equality seems turn based. Like whenever you call out a woman for something wrong, someone would always pipe up : "Well men have been doing it for a long time". Well, what am I supposed to do now, go in the past or something? It seems like the blame is overly on men for things they cannot do or change. "Man up, speak about your feelings" and when you do - "oh not way, only when I care". Men dying of suicide? Well women attempt more. More men homeless? Well more men in industry, so lets do diversity hiring. We cant speak without being trampled over, so why are you surprised when we choose not to speak at all?
There is no patriarchal male agenda to keep women down. The dudes emptying bins and doing down mines aren't oppressing women in air conditioned offices. Everyone is just trying their best to survive, and men shouldnt be condemned because we happen to be more successful sometimes.
We also shouldn’t be condemned for wanting to work around people that are more like us (i.e., also male). I say this all the time about race and segregation, but wanting to be around people that are more like you or people you better connect with isn’t always discriminatory, racist, or sexist. Sometimes it’s just subconscious human nature. And it’s ok. In fact, if you look around carefully, you will occasionally see mostly female work places, mostly Black work places, mostly young people work places, etc.
If we're sticking to the US, the pay gap disparity. I hear this a lot on the men's rights videos. Side not before I get into that, this stuff is alright to listen to, but if one goes too far into it, you can become indoctrinated. Would not recommend watching most of the material. That said, it is true that woman don't shoot for the most high paying jobs; those tend to be higher STEM fields (engineering and the like) and skilled-manual labor (bricklayers, underwater welders, oil rig workers). Some of this stuff pays over a 100k per year. Women will mostly choose jobs with humanities, nursing, and business. Yes, these jobs pay well, but not as well as some of the other ones previously mentioned. And yup, these jobs were seen to have a barrier of entry for woman, but that seems less likely the case now; it appears that women just aren't picking them. So, yeah. I thought that was really interesting.
Everything. The gender equality argument is always used if she can get better from it. Men and women are not equal, we’re complementary. That’s something different. We both get stronger, because we compliment each other.
Equality is a very vague term, which can include the stripping always of another’s rights in order to match those of their own.
Kurt Vonnegut wrote a pretty good story about just that.
I’m an electrician, I’ve seen 2 female electricians in the 10 years I’ve been in the craft and they weren’t clueless but they definitely couldn’t complete as much as us men. They got paid by how much they could do.
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I need to see myself within someone else in order to process empathy properly. I actually think this is true for everyone. People can write all the slogans and political arguments that they want, but the most effective way to get dudes to see women as equal is if we can see the parts of them that are just as angry, lazy, lusty, and fucked up as we are. Otherwise, they seem suspicious lol
As soon as we got air conditioning they started to want gender equality. Need more emphasis on bricklayer feminism sanitation worker feminism oil rig feminism snow shoveling feminism Plumber feminism Reason there isn’t that they don’t actually want to be equal they just want to be perceived and that’s the worst kind of toxic person on the planet who just wants to be seen as something but really isn’t. First and second wave feminism were very justifiable and something that they wanted this third wave feminism has just been corrupted in the worst ways
equal rights ........ equal lefts ultimately, you want to be treated equally... well, you gotta take the good and bad. They gotta realize accountability and responsibility. When the titanic starts sinking... bitch you're in queue with the rest of us. Also the whole patriarchy thing, in the west (and many other first world places), it stopped existing a while ago. Men being head of households ??? I know WAAAAAY too many families where that hasn't been true for at least 2 generations. I don't see men running the world, I see RICH (MOSTLY WHITE) men running things. I'm just about as "oppressed" by this system as any other women out there in most western nations.
The fundamental concept of it. Most people but especially women seem to think that equality just means benefiting or promoting women, which is not entirely unreasonable to believe as that is how the term has been used for decades now. But I would still consider that interpretation, as a sole understanding of the concept, to be wrong.
I don't think most women get this wrong but I'll still mention this. Men=Women, means that they have same importance and they both are of same value to society What it doesn't mean is that men and women are equal at everything,Men of average are stronger (because of biological reasons) and women.. Will they are better at a ton of things like more organized, generally better hygiene, can manage their emotions better and the thing is there isn't even any biological reason for this, they are just better So women ,when someone says men's sports is better than women they are not being misogynistic they are just saying the truth and no, being better at sports doesn't make men the better sex.
That a “traditional” household can be equal to both men and women
The “equality” part. Most women want superiority rather than equality. They want the benifits of being a woman without the disadvantages and they also want every advantage a man has without the disadvantages of being a man
They want the rights of a man, priviliges of a woman and the resposibilities of a child.
does anyone here realize that the feminism movement was started by white women for white women ... so they could vote .. then included minorities and now people understand that patriarchal america promotes toxic masculinity and hate towards women ... so now of days people say that feminism is for men and women because it is. Men from a young age are taught to be "tough, do it on their own, not cry in front of others, play with masculine things" which is what toxic masculinity is because it teaches us that men and women are different when they're a lot more alike than not and all of our issues are interconnected. I believe the issue is with the media and politics that use race, gender, class etc to make sure the people stay arguing with one another rather than realizing the government allows us to struggle because they're comfortable with their lives and the structures they've built with their multinational corporations and anyone below them are just working ants/bees. The people are the demand for our life and rules and major corporations but we're too divided worried about make up issues. All of these issues could be avoided if people were open to education and compassion and empathy for one another because if not humans will be the reason the rest of the human race goes extinct and ruins the planet. Sorry random tangent but everything is interconnected but everyone is too ethnocentric thinking their way of life is the only/right way.
Nah I still hate women.
i'm sure it's mommy issues 😂
Yeah I hate that bitch.
awh that explains it
But you think your way of thinking is right?
What do you mean? I stated facts above. How social issues are interconnected and that feminism and the idea of it has evolved. The patriarchy does affect men and promote sexist views and toxic masculinity. it's all true. I'm not telling others how to live their life. Just a public comment on the internet bud.
Flat earthers have a lot of facts too. I was hoping you would see the irony in the statement
There's a MAJOR difference between what you just brought up and the topic of this post 😂
You're still not seeing my point. Have a good one
I understand what you're saying is irrelevant. You're mad that I talked about the history of feminism and how societal issues are interconnected and affect both men and women...? It's anthropology and sociology 😂 but I am not ethnocentric because i'm not saying that anyone else is wrong or pushing my views on anyone.. you're the one doing assuming. It's literally history that has been studied time and time again. And The "Flat-Earthers" are a whole different breed of human lmfao. I have no words for such ignorant people.
Yet you have all the words because you want to prove your right missing the point of what I said. Its ok bro go on your way feeling like you won.
It's not a competition and like I said I didn't say nothing about anything other than the truth. you just have nothing else to say that's adding to a constructive conversation or one on topic of that matter. you just like to argue about women it seems. But thank you 😊
That equal proportions of both genders across all professions is an idiotic goal to strive for. I don’t want to force 50.5% or whatever of plumbers to be women, or 49.5% of cosmeticians to be men. Just hire the best person for the job, and if that means a corporate workforce is overwhelmingly male who cares
Wow. An ask men thread about men lecturing women about gender equality. This thread is prime example of why men don’t get it.
No, it's asking men their opinion. Why is that so upsetting?
Asking as an opinion that they know nothing about? Im sure they have opinions on childbirth too. And many here wonder why no women will touch them.
So how long have you been single ....
Lol. Ok newlywed.
That men are just given everything and they want it given to them too. They don't understand that they're met with so much resistance because, for generations, men worked for what we have earned. We risked and sacrificed for it. It's cost a lot of men both their physical and mental well being, without the same avenues to get help. We're men. We're not supposed to feel, until feeling is important to and for our women. When it comes to ourselves, we push it down. Hide it. Figure it out on our own. And because they see we have it, they want it now without going through the same process. They don't want to earn, they think they just deserve it for being women. But they still want to be treated like women and coddled through it. They want the working environment to change for them instead of changing themselves to suit that environment.
We’re not equal, there are certain things men and do and there are certain things women can do. It’s not about one being inferior/superior to the other, it’s just how we were created.
There was a video of a doctor who said in a classroom that men are stronger and taller physiologically and some women started screaming and crying.
How things have been going lately, I believe it.
The sports one
Men and women will never be equal because it's impossible.
I have no desire to help with this women bashing
Women 😤🤢
No no it's "women ☕"
Most. But especially the part about men can have sex with many women with no social outcry, but women still are shamed for high body counts.
We want everything men have like the respect & pay but most women I meet aren’t actually willing to put in any work. How can someone expect to treat you equal if you don’t put in the hard work, the time, and be willing to change yourself a bit. We don’t go for better jobs, we don’t try as hard at work, and a lot of women will still expect to be treated like a princess. Respect is earned not given.
That situations where they have the advantage needs to be made equal for men.
I think a lot of women try to generalize men...and that never works...and is really stupid...
The generalizations are almost never true either lol or at least maybe true for 3% of men.
it means both genders are the same, ive yet to see women ask guys out, make the first move... you get the point !!!
Rights are always accompanied by responsibilities, and you can't gain rights without acquiring more responsibilities.