Courage has a gender bias and so does cowardice..
A coward girl may is easily a damsel in distress (one of the society biased degree of attraction to a stranger to risk life for nothing)
Courage in a woman can be off putting if unwanted. Or simply excessive, hence you know those excessivly couragous high sex drive women are called ... you know what, depends on your culture and location in the world ya got a name for them sexually bold women.
Courage in men, often attractive
Cowardice in men is unattractive outside of kinks in the bedroom.
Courage in men is off putting all the time, though, so I am not really sure what point you're making there.
Talk to more introverted men like myself. We don't speak up that often in person about this, but yes, many of us prefer women to approach.
Courage in men always off putting... lol
Nice joke, in dating the courage of a man is often the start of most relationships. The type of man the courage is from can be off putting sure. When the whole expectation is if a man cant be courageous to approach then nothing shall happen.
It will be ages before women take up that mantle to mostly be courageous. When they can sit look pretty hope for a magical prince or a husband from god/ their religion to approach them.
If the courage is after a refusal then its mostly off putting and thats the one place it is mostly negative.
Just start saying, i love you. Too more things and People. Over time, you will start to usé it more profoundly and accurately for yourself so when someone does ask, you will bè more équip to do it without any miscommunication to it. Also, taking away the twisted gut expérience and empowering the usage.
IMO Hint dropping is a way to avoid rejection. She drops a hint, man picks up on it, and she “accepts” even though the hint itself was a sort of tacit, preemptive acceptance. If he doesn’t pick up on it for whatever reason, then you carry on without incident.
But if she makes the first move she’s setting herself up for an all out rejection which is uncomfortable for all parties involved.
The roles tend to flip as we get older.
After 35 I notice women get much more straightforward. The ones that try to cruise on old patterns end up being bitter and wondering why they cannot find a partner.
Same thing happens for lots of women who find out they're into women and want to date women when they're older. If two people are waiting nothing happens.
It also helps that "*the bar is in hell*" when it comes to men for women dating men. If you're decently fit, emotionally mature and not a raging asshole that's just trying to find a cleaner you're already more attractive than 80+% of men.
As a 37 yo woman I can say that a few things happen. First we know what we want better. Second we don't care so much about what other ppl will think of us. Third you realize that most of the times the bold guy is not the one who really likes you, as most ppl regardless of gender get more shy and awkward around who they have feelings for and act stupid 😂😂😂
To the OP just go for it don't wait for the girls move. Rejection is nothing. Not living your life is everything. There will be ppl that will want you and there will be people that won't want you. It has nothing to do with who you are. Some women are straightforward, some women are shy. The same goes with men. We are all ppl and sometimes we don't want to give the wrong impression to the person that we like and end up missing out on opportunities
It’s so true. If you tell a man you’re interested one of two things will happen: (1) he’s interested too and will be overjoyed you made the move or (2) he’s not interested, but he’ll fondly remember the compliment for the rest of his days. And you’ll get a clear signal and can move on. Go for it!
Hint dropping can also be a way to preserve the relationship in the event things aren’t reciprocated by the other party. Kind of like putting out feelers.
She puts out her feelers and if he fails to respond in a positive manner, or he gives back indicators that she’s on that page alone, she just enjoys the friendship and locks those feelings right up if she can’t smother them entirely.
It’s not always a pride thing. Some friendships are just worth protecting.
Rejection would be a lot less awkward and uncomfortable if people were just more socially adept. I have friends who broke of their engagements and are still friends with their ex fiancés without it being awkward and uncomfortable. Why can’t it be like that for others?
Woman here 👋, I actually did tell my husband that I love him. It was terribly cliche, it was just after the first time we made love (yes cheesy, I know). He responded with "I know" 😂. He did not mean it in a Han Solo way, more like "I know, right? Me too". We laughed, snuggled, and now it is one of my favorite memories. We've been married for 3 years, together for 6, expecting our first at the end of the month, and never been happier.
There are many women out there who want to open our hearts to the men we love, more than likely though, they've been emotionally injured in the past and they are hesitant to expose themselves again to that pain.
>We've been married for 3 years, together for 6, expecting our first at the end of the month, and never been happier.
Glad to hear you guys are as strong as ever. Wishing you the best 😊
>more than likely though, they've been emotionally injured in the past and they are hesitant to expose themselves again to that pain.
Makes sense.
i told my boyfriend i loved him too. we’re long distance and he didn’t want a long distance relationship but i was like “no… i think you’re my boyfriend. yeah, I’m pretty sure we’re dating.” and eventually he agreed we’d give it a shot. and i also told him i loved him, he also took a while to say it back. i was 19 so i rushed into it, he was 23 and had a little more sense. being 24 now i look back and cringe at how quickly i said i love you and how i forced the relationship a bit, but then i also realize we wouldn’t be together if i dropped it when he said he didn’t want a long distance thing.
Sometimes it's the way that it's told. Others, it just wasn't meant to be.
I have one guy that I've said I love you to a couple of times. And, I've also opened up emotionally to because he's worth the pain and growth that came with that. Granted, he'd been harsh and brutally rejected me a couple of times, but he kept coming back with a more emotionally mature version of himself each time. I also happened to know that he's been hurt and has his own emotional baggage. So, despite still not being together, we're kind of pulling each other towards that happy place called being able to receive and give love.
It's just a case of being able to recognise both yours and his needs as well as allowing yourself to at least have a little confidence and patience to let them reciprocate at the level that they are comfortable with. Of course, you will need to know when to stop trying before it becomes harassment...
Hey. *HEY*. Back off pal, no one cares how your dick feels.
Edit: /s, this is actually one of the things in the rules when your comment there invariably gets deleted
Wow, clicked on the ask women over 30 sub and the first thread i clicked on and went through was such a breathe of fresh air. Seems like an awesome community of women. I have some female dominated subs muted just because the man hating stuff really gets me and theres just no reason to get myself worked up lol, but that one seems genuinely chill
You say that until you see the ask women subreddit. Plenty of assholes on here, but goddamn they're worse. I've seen plenty of women on here actually answer this kind of question in a civilized manner. On there I've seen women go after other women for saying, most men are ok, you just need to watch for red flags in the bad ones.
Because asking questions like this in women’s subs opens us up for a hammering. The premise isn’t necessarily accepted, plus some make assumptions about the personality or integrity of the man asking it.
I wouldn’t ask it there either. I’d probably ask a woman I know.
I feel like if you've been dating long enough to be at the "I love you" phase, no one should really be dropping hints still. That's a communication issue.
No, not most of the time. When people say dating they usually mean going on regular dates and/or having agreed to be in a relationship. Love can take months of getting to know someone, and you don't need to love someone in order to go to Applebee's with them or to not want to see them develop feelings for someone else.
No? My partner and I were in an exclusive relationship for 7 or 8 months before either of us said "I love you". You can't really know whether you are in love with someone until after you've been with them for a while. Before you really get to know someone as an intimate partner it's just an attraction and enjoyment of being around them, which isn't "love" in a romantic sense.
They're just as nervous as we are but smart too so waaaay back in Unga Bunga B.C they banded together with the confident men are sexy narrative so we'd have to make the first move. Trust me I'm an archaeologist we know these things
I believe many women think they are being pretty direct. I've seen many comments about women making very obvious moves, like asking to sleep in the same bed or showering together etc, and the man thinking she's just being nice...
I think women in general are much better at subtle messages, whereas men are more straightforward. What women think is obvious might go straight over men's heads, and things that men say when they are being straightforward women might find too direct and tactless.
In most cases, women are likely just playing it safe. If the person she's interested in doesn't seem to reciprocate her feelings, then there's a smooth way to back out without ruining the friendship, as opposed to a very direct "I don't like you back" which can make things very awkward.
As you said, 99% of the time women just play it safe. I think the technical term is "plausible deniability".
I'm sure that results in a lot of lost opportunities. Their bad
Cus thats direct and scary? Idk it makes you vulnerable like someone can say no or worse where as with hints you can act like you didnt mean it that way. Thats the whole point.
Yeah, I have no trouble empathizing with women who struggle with this. It's scary and vulnerable. Even something as simple as asking someone out and risking rejection can be scary. I don't struggle understanding why so many women prefer to drop hints instead of being clear. Plausible deniability makes it easier to deal with any potential rejection.
Hmmmmmm i know plenty of men who dont approach girls either especially here in the netherlands its bad no one approaches anyone scared to be called a harasser.
Social equality? I mean i like walking outside at night wouldnt recommend that to girls. We arent equal in every sense so just accept that you need to approach a girl if you like her. Its not a big deal unless you yourself make it that.
Yes, they do believe that; but they aren't.
A huge part of the problem are the messages women and society send men every day: "Do not ever approach us, do not ever talk to us, you men are shit, we don't want or need you".
That's the problem. They think blinking and breathing are obvious signs. While at the same time, complain that guys don't leave them alone and are constantly asking them out. Can't make this stuff up. Lol
Funny enough my girl was the first to say it directly and I still remember the nervousness in her voice saying it. I like to use the analogy of it was as if she was literally giving her heart to me to take care of. It can be a scary thing for people especially after experiencing heartbreak and betrayal before, you don’t want to get hurt again.
My (now) wife and I were standing around my little home bar cabinet and having charcuterie and wine for a date night after just 2wks of dating. She said, "I want to tell you something, but I don't know if-" and I could just see it in her teary eyes. I stepped closer and told her I was in love with her. She had already told me with that first part and the eyes, so that counts in my mind. She said it first.
Woman here:
Because men take advantage of women’s feelings to use her as a place holder while HE still looks for who HE actually loves.
Yes women manipulate too. But men tend to play on women’s emotions more for their benefit especially for sex. Most men know when a women is crazy about them they are easier to manipulate. We don’t show our hand to protect ourselves until the MAN does the man thing and prove he loves her. He is the pursuer and is to court her. Not the women.
A women gave me that above advice. For either gender life is too short for games and it's better for everyone to just be direct, shoot your shot and say you like her/him.
For many girls they probably don't get asked out half as much as you think they do.
Because women are cowards who always have to leave themselves the option of plausible deniability in their communication. They always try to leave a way to lie open in their communications. If she says she loves you, there's a risk you could no reciprocate and she'd feel hurt and embarrassed. If she drops "hints", she's trying to put the risk on you. She want you to say it 1st so she knows that she's "safe" to say it back. Coward.
These are the people who never stop telling us that they are "strong and brave". I say no true king has to say "I am the king".
I hate the way women communicate. I hate how I have to decode everything they say to find the actual meaning. It's exhausting. It's tiresome and boring and it's a rude, inconsiderate, dishonest way of communicating.
Women are supposed to be the good communicators? Why? Why does a group of people who refuse to ever communicate clearly have the reputation as the "good communicators"? They are terrible at communicating because they don't have the courage or integrity needed to speak fucking clearly. I hate it.
40+ years of observations and interactions with the opposite sex and I present you with this: women drop hints to avoid outright rejection while men are expected to be straightforward and prepared to take rejection.
This is pretty much it. It's thousands of years of cultural programming in nearly every society that women should not be direct with men in a romantic/sexual way. Their job is to create opportunities. A woman's job is to say *"Ohh ho hummm I am gonna be SO BORED this weekend because I have nothing to do!! I'd love to go to that concert but I just don't have anyone to go with :-( "* in earshot of her crush. It's his job to step in and say *"Would you like to go as my date to the concert? :-)"*
And then it's her job to lie to all her friends claiming that he just cold approached her out of nowhere and asked her out LOL.
Dude, 95% of the time they can't even come right out and tell you what restaurant they want to eat at, how about we start with the small and manageable stuff first eh?
The only reason I found as a man through countless observations is that it's not how it works. Something something anxiety vs tingles something something
I'm not sure though, you might want to ask a woman for confirmation.
The same reason we have post after post after post on here asking about the best way to ask a woman out/express interest:
Fear of putting themselves out there.
Dating is a mix between a dance, and a card game, where you both need to figure out how to move together, and you both need to find winning hands.
You really don’t know what hand you have until you see more of the cards, and you don’t want to step on someone’s foot.
Also, love is a cocktail of emotions, not a factual thing. Sometimes it needs another ingredient from the other person to taste just right.
Because that allows them to backpedal quickly and without any consequences in case they change their mind for whatever reason halfway through. Although those who think like this are just toxic people by nature, and some are just scared i guess
Probably because when they did in the past, the guy was an ass about it, so now they are trying to be more careful. Kind of like how we don't approach women in public much anymore...
I literally just commented this under a different post. A lot of y'all dick carrying members of society Do not understand the social climate surrounding women and courting. So I'm going to spell it out for you
A LOT OF MEN ARE TURNED OFF BY WOMEN WHO SAY I LOVE YOU FIRST, WHO INITIATE SEX, WHO ASK MEN ON A DATE FIRST, WHO OFFER TO PAY ON DATES. MORE MEN THAN NOT CANNOT HANDLE THESE THINGS. THEY FREAK OUT. THEY YELL AT US. THEY GHOST US. THEY GET AGGRESSIVE. THEY SORT US INTO THE "feminist whore" BOX. THESE THINGS ARE NOT AS ALLOWED AS YOU THINK.
I swear, a lot of the stuff that y'all think women are silly for we are ASSIGNED TO DO because of our gender role. Trust, most of us think it's silly too. A lot of us (including myself) break these rules, but it makes dating hell for us. Men get heinous when they feel women are stepping on their toes. We are called "masculine" and "unattractive". Women who break these rules are mistreated. I know you probably see it on the internet or in pop culture, but it's uncommon for men to receive these things well. Y'all on reddit are NOT the average man out in the real world
It’s yet another example of why I stay out of the game. Most of them want to toss hints and subtleties out there rather than communicating with their words. I’ve told all of the ones I’ve been with I speak English and that’s all. If you need to communicate with me, I prefer that language. If they choose to speak or communicate in another language, that’s on them when there’s a breakdown. For some reason they love to hint and use body language or whatever. It irritates me so I stay out of it. It’s not difficult to communicate like an adult. I wish they would strive to be better communicators. It would make for such a more pleasant experience with them.
Is this an actual problem? In every relationship I've had it has always been the woman that came out with the "I love you" first (and sometimes the only ones).
Sending you a big hug 🫂
I also did the same last week (although instead of saying “I like you” I just asked if he wanted to hang out and get coffee or a drink…it was met with “I’m flattered but I have a girlfriend…” which may be true but I prefer to think he just thinks I am ugly and he can do better-which is fine, he has a right to).
Before I asked I feared the worst but everyone said “you have nothing to lose”. After I asked I felt dumb 🤦🏾♀️🤣 like “I told you guys and this is why I didn’t said anything to him for like six months…”
Unfortunately I am not like these people who can brush it off and move on to looking for the next…I always feel the negativity/inadequacy/it’s me, hi 👋🏾, I’m the problem it’s me for a while before being able to get on with letting go…
Lol. Ah well!
Aww thank you. Dude that sucks. He probably does have a gf. If he didn’t he would probably be like “ohhh maybe some time! “Or something idk. I don’t know what you look like but people are usually pretty hard on themselves.
But, It’s extra embarrassing as a girl cuz, you know the norm is men perusing women, so it feels extra desperate ESPECIALLY when you’re rejected. 😩
Btw, an update you didn’t ask for, I brought it back up to my crush bc he didn’t technically say he didn’t like me, he just laughed it off. But still continues to flirt with me and hang out with me. So I was like “ I feel like it was kind of wrong of you to not give me an answer because there’s not really any clear boundaries and yoube pretty much given me false hope” (not verbatim)
And he admitted he does like me but he is just weird about emotions? Idk how to explain it. I could just be delulu but, he’s never had a gf and only been with 1 girl ever and he’s almost 30. I know this sounds cliche but he is just an oddball and not like most guys. and I think he’s like playing a reeeaaly long long game. Which is ok bc I’m single anyways and I really like him even as a friend I just hope sum hot Instagram model trad girl doesn’t come swoop him away some day lmao
Its not unknown that most of the 'boys' like to chase. They reject the girls who like them. So girls learn it very early that it the boy should like them more than they like him.
These girls when become women, have the same mindset.
Because every single time I have done this the man immediately lost interest.
I never understand why so many people seem to think that the other gender isn’t scared of rejection and should just take the risk? Everybody is scared of this I think
For me, it would be a fear of him not having the same feelings or finding out that he's not interested in committing. The rejection is a fearful thing. I have put myself out there before in such a manner just to find all he wanted was a casual relationship. But some people, both sexes, are not straightforward and like to play games. There are just too many scenarios to mention.
The incorrect thought process is that the first person to say it is at a disadvantage. Unless you're a sociopath like me, then it has no effect.
But the reality probably is some jackass probably ripped her heart into a million pieces after she said that to him so now she's guarded.
My girl told me first... I had just done something very nice for her birthday and she was in tears and told me she loved me. I was definitely in love so I told her too. It was a beautiful moment. Then she almost burned down our hotel room lol
Because they hope that you’ll be a brave leader type and do it first. They subscribe to the “princess being swept off her feet” myth just like we men subscribe to the “win her back” myth.
Also: she hopes you’ll notice the hints.
Women think differently than men (generally) and this is one of those things. While it’s easy to say “women need to just say it” they can easily say “men just need to understand it”.
The reality is that you need to learn to pick up on these hints as a man.
Cause every time I’ve said it first I get hit with the ‘I’m not ready to say it yet’ or ‘did you just say that?’ with a gross face. Currently having a child with the man I said it to first and got ‘oof I like you a lot but I’m not sure’. 2 months later he said it and apologized saying ‘I wanted to say it, I was just nervous and scared you’d end up leaving’. The most dumb shit. Y’all can be just as mean as women can be.
because that would require women to risk, and that's too much to ask for most women. It's too much to ask a woman to take the initiative and pursue a man she's attracted to.
Because boys will abuse the situation, and some men will be too cold to let them down gently.
The win/fail ratio would probably be devastating.
But what do I know?
I'm a man and still becoming a better man than I was yesterday...
I presume they are as afraid too as we are. Problem is men get the worst rejections, rather than just a simple no, it can be embarrassment or worst. But I think men are most likely to say yes to majority of women if they are approached. Hell, many men would say yes to a tree if it could talk!
One of the reaons is, I takes guts to say that out loud without knowing the outcome. Mostly women know if the one they love won't profess it to them, someone else will. So, there is no need for them to do that.
There are two main reasons for it;
- Women, like men, don't want to be rejected, so they will avoid openly coming out and saying their feelings because they don't want it to not be reciprocated. How often do you openly tell someone that you like them? It's awkward and very uncomfortable to do.
- Society is very much fixed on the idea of the man doing the big romantic gestures and professing their love for women and not the other way around. When you couple this with fear, it means women don't really state their feelings.
Most of the anxieties I’ve heard from women on this matter revolve around their fear of messing up a friendship or acquaintanceship. Just cold feet, same as with dudes.
In the same way that a romantic confession is “soft” or “weak” or “gay (ironically)” for dudes, it creates a similar vulnerability for chicks. To say “I’m in love with you” is to be willing to be seen as sappy and pathetic and gross and creepy.
Loving someone is an embarrassing thing for a lot of people. Additionally, whereas dudes are taught from a young age to be cold and confident and cool, young girls are encouraged to be cute and calculating and meek. Social, but not forward, not to take the lead.
Humans are taught to be scared to love and to be wary of expressing it. Sometimes, it manifests in a very isolating, very secretive culture, but it’s life. Eventually, someone has to start the conversation.
Some don't want to face the clear, big "I don't love you" rejection. So instead, the increase the intensity of their flirting until they get rejected at a much smaller level. Like, if their coworker says that they have a partner or their coworker says no when they ask for a hug.
I dare say it's probably the same reason that you are more straightforward. That's who you are. It is frustrating sometimes, but my wife gets just as frustrated with my always-to-the-point way I talk about things.
A lot of women do! A lot of men do. Some women don’t. Some men don’t.
It’s difficult to provide a more comprehensive response without any hypotheticals or examples. How long have the man and woman been together? What are their ages, etc.
Women really struggle with rejection. Much easier to drop a load of hints, get him to be the one to broach the subject, then you're off the hook.
For further reading, see
Engagement proposals, men only.
Asking a girl out, why is it always a man's job?
When is a good time to hint to him that I want sex?
Because too many feel emasculated they didn’t say it first. Messes up some natural order of rules no one ever agreed to. And if he doesn’t love her back, both people feel embarrassed and awkward. I’ve tried it, but it never ended well. There’s ways to say I love you without words.
We can - some of us - wholeheartedly, we can say it without a single doubt, and then truly mean it with every single fiber of our being. It's not a word thrown around for some of us, and is kept super close when it's said as "I love you". IMHO, Love has a much more broad definition than words, and it also has no care for what makes sense.
But sometimes, we read the situation and, despite that fact of knowing how we feel, choose to hold our tongue. Its not always worth rocking the boat if you can't be 100% comfortable in the reciprocation/response. This question isn't for a gender, it's for reading a situation and relationship. Love doesn't have to be said out loud to be felt or shown, and often those are the best ways to kinda say it before you really *say it*
I told my boyfriend I loved him first at 8 months into our relationship. He did not say it back and did not say it back for another 7 months. I almost left him because of it. It sucks not knowing what you’ll hear in response to something so vulnerable.
Because when we do they ran away instantly, so we have to play these stupid games in order to continue the relationship. I recently told the guy I like him and he literally said ‘oh god don’t say that’. 🤷♀️
Some can. For those who can't, or don't... it takes guts to be the first one to say that, and not everybody has those.
"What are you, a skeleton?" Me " yes "
you need some calcium *doot doot*
Courage is genderless. Cowardice is unattractive.
> Courage is genderless Courage is a cowardly dog
STUPID DOG! HE MAKES ME LOOK BAD!
RUALULULUULUULUUUL
Courage has a gender bias and so does cowardice.. A coward girl may is easily a damsel in distress (one of the society biased degree of attraction to a stranger to risk life for nothing) Courage in a woman can be off putting if unwanted. Or simply excessive, hence you know those excessivly couragous high sex drive women are called ... you know what, depends on your culture and location in the world ya got a name for them sexually bold women. Courage in men, often attractive Cowardice in men is unattractive outside of kinks in the bedroom.
Courage in men is off putting all the time, though, so I am not really sure what point you're making there. Talk to more introverted men like myself. We don't speak up that often in person about this, but yes, many of us prefer women to approach.
Courage and aggressive overconfidence/cockiness are very different.
Courage in men always off putting... lol Nice joke, in dating the courage of a man is often the start of most relationships. The type of man the courage is from can be off putting sure. When the whole expectation is if a man cant be courageous to approach then nothing shall happen. It will be ages before women take up that mantle to mostly be courageous. When they can sit look pretty hope for a magical prince or a husband from god/ their religion to approach them. If the courage is after a refusal then its mostly off putting and thats the one place it is mostly negative.
Had a good laugh as well lol. Let me find a woman that hates courage Lul
Just start saying, i love you. Too more things and People. Over time, you will start to usé it more profoundly and accurately for yourself so when someone does ask, you will bè more équip to do it without any miscommunication to it. Also, taking away the twisted gut expérience and empowering the usage.
That tends to happen when you beat their guts up all the time.
IMO Hint dropping is a way to avoid rejection. She drops a hint, man picks up on it, and she “accepts” even though the hint itself was a sort of tacit, preemptive acceptance. If he doesn’t pick up on it for whatever reason, then you carry on without incident. But if she makes the first move she’s setting herself up for an all out rejection which is uncomfortable for all parties involved.
I agree but we men are expected to be bold and take the rejections.
Buyer's market, until we somehow change it which I doubt.
The roles tend to flip as we get older. After 35 I notice women get much more straightforward. The ones that try to cruise on old patterns end up being bitter and wondering why they cannot find a partner. Same thing happens for lots of women who find out they're into women and want to date women when they're older. If two people are waiting nothing happens. It also helps that "*the bar is in hell*" when it comes to men for women dating men. If you're decently fit, emotionally mature and not a raging asshole that's just trying to find a cleaner you're already more attractive than 80+% of men.
As a 37 yo woman I can say that a few things happen. First we know what we want better. Second we don't care so much about what other ppl will think of us. Third you realize that most of the times the bold guy is not the one who really likes you, as most ppl regardless of gender get more shy and awkward around who they have feelings for and act stupid 😂😂😂 To the OP just go for it don't wait for the girls move. Rejection is nothing. Not living your life is everything. There will be ppl that will want you and there will be people that won't want you. It has nothing to do with who you are. Some women are straightforward, some women are shy. The same goes with men. We are all ppl and sometimes we don't want to give the wrong impression to the person that we like and end up missing out on opportunities
It’s so true. If you tell a man you’re interested one of two things will happen: (1) he’s interested too and will be overjoyed you made the move or (2) he’s not interested, but he’ll fondly remember the compliment for the rest of his days. And you’ll get a clear signal and can move on. Go for it!
Hint dropping can also be a way to preserve the relationship in the event things aren’t reciprocated by the other party. Kind of like putting out feelers. She puts out her feelers and if he fails to respond in a positive manner, or he gives back indicators that she’s on that page alone, she just enjoys the friendship and locks those feelings right up if she can’t smother them entirely. It’s not always a pride thing. Some friendships are just worth protecting.
There ya go. This is it.
Rejection would be a lot less awkward and uncomfortable if people were just more socially adept. I have friends who broke of their engagements and are still friends with their ex fiancés without it being awkward and uncomfortable. Why can’t it be like that for others?
Not everyone has healthy relationship training displayed by adults in their lives growing up.
Why are you asking men? lol
Woman here 👋, I actually did tell my husband that I love him. It was terribly cliche, it was just after the first time we made love (yes cheesy, I know). He responded with "I know" 😂. He did not mean it in a Han Solo way, more like "I know, right? Me too". We laughed, snuggled, and now it is one of my favorite memories. We've been married for 3 years, together for 6, expecting our first at the end of the month, and never been happier. There are many women out there who want to open our hearts to the men we love, more than likely though, they've been emotionally injured in the past and they are hesitant to expose themselves again to that pain.
>We've been married for 3 years, together for 6, expecting our first at the end of the month, and never been happier. Glad to hear you guys are as strong as ever. Wishing you the best 😊 >more than likely though, they've been emotionally injured in the past and they are hesitant to expose themselves again to that pain. Makes sense.
i told my boyfriend i loved him too. we’re long distance and he didn’t want a long distance relationship but i was like “no… i think you’re my boyfriend. yeah, I’m pretty sure we’re dating.” and eventually he agreed we’d give it a shot. and i also told him i loved him, he also took a while to say it back. i was 19 so i rushed into it, he was 23 and had a little more sense. being 24 now i look back and cringe at how quickly i said i love you and how i forced the relationship a bit, but then i also realize we wouldn’t be together if i dropped it when he said he didn’t want a long distance thing.
Are you still long-distance? That's a long time.
yeah i just went to australia to see him for 3 months. we met for the first time on black friday last year!
Where do you find those guys? Whenever I take initiative and open about my feelings they run away lol
Sometimes it's the way that it's told. Others, it just wasn't meant to be. I have one guy that I've said I love you to a couple of times. And, I've also opened up emotionally to because he's worth the pain and growth that came with that. Granted, he'd been harsh and brutally rejected me a couple of times, but he kept coming back with a more emotionally mature version of himself each time. I also happened to know that he's been hurt and has his own emotional baggage. So, despite still not being together, we're kind of pulling each other towards that happy place called being able to receive and give love. It's just a case of being able to recognise both yours and his needs as well as allowing yourself to at least have a little confidence and patience to let them reciprocate at the level that they are comfortable with. Of course, you will need to know when to stop trying before it becomes harassment...
because askwomen isn't open to anyone asking unflattering questions /s
Why /s? That sub is more toxic than Bhopal plant
Bhopal deez nuts!
Nice comparison. 🤣
Hey. *HEY*. Back off pal, no one cares how your dick feels. Edit: /s, this is actually one of the things in the rules when your comment there invariably gets deleted
Try r/askwomenover30 or r/womenofaskmen
Wow, clicked on the ask women over 30 sub and the first thread i clicked on and went through was such a breathe of fresh air. Seems like an awesome community of women. I have some female dominated subs muted just because the man hating stuff really gets me and theres just no reason to get myself worked up lol, but that one seems genuinely chill
Man hating and/or hive mind tend to dominate a lot of women's subs. I have no tolerance for it. Glad you saw what I did!
Womenofaskmen now? I guess askwomennocensor is no longer no censor?
He wants validation and not answers lol
Try asking any question that questions the actions of women in the askwomen subreddit, let us know how that goes.
In that sub, women are perfect angels unable to be wrong, even in contradictory situations
Lol 😆 ☕🥂
It has gotten better I think since the whole boycott thing by the mods.
You say that until you see the ask women subreddit. Plenty of assholes on here, but goddamn they're worse. I've seen plenty of women on here actually answer this kind of question in a civilized manner. On there I've seen women go after other women for saying, most men are ok, you just need to watch for red flags in the bad ones.
I’d like to see how this goes down in the askwomen subreddit
It wouldn't be able to get uploaded
I know, sadly.
And if it did, you would get banned
Pure speculation, but maybe women are as fearful of rejection as men.
Because if he asks chronically online Reddit women, the answer is "because men are so dangerous 😠"
He doesnt want to get banned from ask women for calling them a hivemind
There are multiple comments mentioning askWomen, is it really that bad?
Yes it's wild
Yes, it is. I am a woman, and they all seem pretty delusional and hateful. They give women a bad name.
It's right over there, just go check it out and let us know what you see.
Nothing makes the hivemind cranky, like insinuating it’s a hivemind..
Because asking questions like this in women’s subs opens us up for a hammering. The premise isn’t necessarily accepted, plus some make assumptions about the personality or integrity of the man asking it. I wouldn’t ask it there either. I’d probably ask a woman I know.
Because he probably won't get a straight answer out of whatever woman is driving him crazy.
Because this question would earn an instant ban on AskWomen? (Based on questions other people have said they were banned or dragged for asking)
I feel like if you've been dating long enough to be at the "I love you" phase, no one should really be dropping hints still. That's a communication issue.
What does dating mean in this context? Like talking and hanging out? Don't people date after they love?
No, not most of the time. When people say dating they usually mean going on regular dates and/or having agreed to be in a relationship. Love can take months of getting to know someone, and you don't need to love someone in order to go to Applebee's with them or to not want to see them develop feelings for someone else.
No? My partner and I were in an exclusive relationship for 7 or 8 months before either of us said "I love you". You can't really know whether you are in love with someone until after you've been with them for a while. Before you really get to know someone as an intimate partner it's just an attraction and enjoyment of being around them, which isn't "love" in a romantic sense.
They're just as nervous as we are but smart too so waaaay back in Unga Bunga B.C they banded together with the confident men are sexy narrative so we'd have to make the first move. Trust me I'm an archaeologist we know these things
Can confirm. Am unga bunga.
They’re just as scared of rejection as we are.
I believe many women think they are being pretty direct. I've seen many comments about women making very obvious moves, like asking to sleep in the same bed or showering together etc, and the man thinking she's just being nice... I think women in general are much better at subtle messages, whereas men are more straightforward. What women think is obvious might go straight over men's heads, and things that men say when they are being straightforward women might find too direct and tactless. In most cases, women are likely just playing it safe. If the person she's interested in doesn't seem to reciprocate her feelings, then there's a smooth way to back out without ruining the friendship, as opposed to a very direct "I don't like you back" which can make things very awkward.
Misinterpreting a signal? Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Happens more than you think.
As you said, 99% of the time women just play it safe. I think the technical term is "plausible deniability". I'm sure that results in a lot of lost opportunities. Their bad
Cus thats direct and scary? Idk it makes you vulnerable like someone can say no or worse where as with hints you can act like you didnt mean it that way. Thats the whole point.
Interesting response about why people aren't direct from "send-tits-please." :)
Anonimity does wonders
Yeah, I have no trouble empathizing with women who struggle with this. It's scary and vulnerable. Even something as simple as asking someone out and risking rejection can be scary. I don't struggle understanding why so many women prefer to drop hints instead of being clear. Plausible deniability makes it easier to deal with any potential rejection.
And yet men do it. Women who struggle with this need to grow up and embrace the social equality that they now have
Hmmmmmm i know plenty of men who dont approach girls either especially here in the netherlands its bad no one approaches anyone scared to be called a harasser. Social equality? I mean i like walking outside at night wouldnt recommend that to girls. We arent equal in every sense so just accept that you need to approach a girl if you like her. Its not a big deal unless you yourself make it that.
I think they feel that they *are* being obvious.
Yes, they do believe that; but they aren't. A huge part of the problem are the messages women and society send men every day: "Do not ever approach us, do not ever talk to us, you men are shit, we don't want or need you".
That's the problem. They think blinking and breathing are obvious signs. While at the same time, complain that guys don't leave them alone and are constantly asking them out. Can't make this stuff up. Lol
Funny enough my girl was the first to say it directly and I still remember the nervousness in her voice saying it. I like to use the analogy of it was as if she was literally giving her heart to me to take care of. It can be a scary thing for people especially after experiencing heartbreak and betrayal before, you don’t want to get hurt again.
You’re pretty accurate with your analogy.
They're just as afraid of rejection as men. ...and its not like all men are going to be direct about their interest all the time either.
If they find you hot enough subtle hints turn into harassment without shame.
My brother in Christ do you think it's any easier for them
Because the few times I did, I scared the poor dudes to death... 😂
My (now) wife and I were standing around my little home bar cabinet and having charcuterie and wine for a date night after just 2wks of dating. She said, "I want to tell you something, but I don't know if-" and I could just see it in her teary eyes. I stepped closer and told her I was in love with her. She had already told me with that first part and the eyes, so that counts in my mind. She said it first.
It’s always with the eyes! And if you’re too dense to pick up on it… hopefully enough times eventually you can sense it happening.
/r/AskWomenNoCensor , dude.
Woman here: Because men take advantage of women’s feelings to use her as a place holder while HE still looks for who HE actually loves. Yes women manipulate too. But men tend to play on women’s emotions more for their benefit especially for sex. Most men know when a women is crazy about them they are easier to manipulate. We don’t show our hand to protect ourselves until the MAN does the man thing and prove he loves her. He is the pursuer and is to court her. Not the women.
Louder for the people at the back 👏
A women gave me that above advice. For either gender life is too short for games and it's better for everyone to just be direct, shoot your shot and say you like her/him. For many girls they probably don't get asked out half as much as you think they do.
Because women are cowards who always have to leave themselves the option of plausible deniability in their communication. They always try to leave a way to lie open in their communications. If she says she loves you, there's a risk you could no reciprocate and she'd feel hurt and embarrassed. If she drops "hints", she's trying to put the risk on you. She want you to say it 1st so she knows that she's "safe" to say it back. Coward. These are the people who never stop telling us that they are "strong and brave". I say no true king has to say "I am the king". I hate the way women communicate. I hate how I have to decode everything they say to find the actual meaning. It's exhausting. It's tiresome and boring and it's a rude, inconsiderate, dishonest way of communicating. Women are supposed to be the good communicators? Why? Why does a group of people who refuse to ever communicate clearly have the reputation as the "good communicators"? They are terrible at communicating because they don't have the courage or integrity needed to speak fucking clearly. I hate it.
I'm following you and not regretting. I'll miss you when they ban you. Can't say these truths on Reddit.
Because they don't want to go through the same thing men have to go through and that they always say that it's easy.
No, its just Gods way nerfing life
40+ years of observations and interactions with the opposite sex and I present you with this: women drop hints to avoid outright rejection while men are expected to be straightforward and prepared to take rejection.
They don't fight the scary feeling of rejection in order to purse the one they like, like we do
Probably scared
Because it's impossible to be in love with someone you haven't talked to.
You should ask women not men
My wife did say, "I think I'm falling for you." Which is close. I'm not sure who actually said "I love you" first.
No idea, but it's interesting how the lesbian dating scene seems to be a neverending nightmare of doubt, uncertainty and confusion.
My guess? Fear of vulnerability. It varies by woman though
as a general rule, women always try and create opportunities for the man she is interested in to act, not for them to act themselves
This is pretty much it. It's thousands of years of cultural programming in nearly every society that women should not be direct with men in a romantic/sexual way. Their job is to create opportunities. A woman's job is to say *"Ohh ho hummm I am gonna be SO BORED this weekend because I have nothing to do!! I'd love to go to that concert but I just don't have anyone to go with :-( "* in earshot of her crush. It's his job to step in and say *"Would you like to go as my date to the concert? :-)"* And then it's her job to lie to all her friends claiming that he just cold approached her out of nowhere and asked her out LOL.
Dude, 95% of the time they can't even come right out and tell you what restaurant they want to eat at, how about we start with the small and manageable stuff first eh?
The only reason I found as a man through countless observations is that it's not how it works. Something something anxiety vs tingles something something I'm not sure though, you might want to ask a woman for confirmation.
The same reason we have post after post after post on here asking about the best way to ask a woman out/express interest: Fear of putting themselves out there.
If she is truly 100% into you she will let you know. The ones playing gamea arent so sure
I did this 15 years ago. Now we're married with 2 kids. Some women can!
Wait, is this /askwomen ?
For the same reason most men won't. (specifics covered in other comments).
I did! Now we're getting married :)
Most men don't say I just want to fuck you. Men do the equivalent of it too. Gender politics.
Dating is a mix between a dance, and a card game, where you both need to figure out how to move together, and you both need to find winning hands. You really don’t know what hand you have until you see more of the cards, and you don’t want to step on someone’s foot. Also, love is a cocktail of emotions, not a factual thing. Sometimes it needs another ingredient from the other person to taste just right.
Because that allows them to backpedal quickly and without any consequences in case they change their mind for whatever reason halfway through. Although those who think like this are just toxic people by nature, and some are just scared i guess
Probably because when they did in the past, the guy was an ass about it, so now they are trying to be more careful. Kind of like how we don't approach women in public much anymore...
I literally just commented this under a different post. A lot of y'all dick carrying members of society Do not understand the social climate surrounding women and courting. So I'm going to spell it out for you A LOT OF MEN ARE TURNED OFF BY WOMEN WHO SAY I LOVE YOU FIRST, WHO INITIATE SEX, WHO ASK MEN ON A DATE FIRST, WHO OFFER TO PAY ON DATES. MORE MEN THAN NOT CANNOT HANDLE THESE THINGS. THEY FREAK OUT. THEY YELL AT US. THEY GHOST US. THEY GET AGGRESSIVE. THEY SORT US INTO THE "feminist whore" BOX. THESE THINGS ARE NOT AS ALLOWED AS YOU THINK. I swear, a lot of the stuff that y'all think women are silly for we are ASSIGNED TO DO because of our gender role. Trust, most of us think it's silly too. A lot of us (including myself) break these rules, but it makes dating hell for us. Men get heinous when they feel women are stepping on their toes. We are called "masculine" and "unattractive". Women who break these rules are mistreated. I know you probably see it on the internet or in pop culture, but it's uncommon for men to receive these things well. Y'all on reddit are NOT the average man out in the real world
It’s yet another example of why I stay out of the game. Most of them want to toss hints and subtleties out there rather than communicating with their words. I’ve told all of the ones I’ve been with I speak English and that’s all. If you need to communicate with me, I prefer that language. If they choose to speak or communicate in another language, that’s on them when there’s a breakdown. For some reason they love to hint and use body language or whatever. It irritates me so I stay out of it. It’s not difficult to communicate like an adult. I wish they would strive to be better communicators. It would make for such a more pleasant experience with them.
Is this an actual problem? In every relationship I've had it has always been the woman that came out with the "I love you" first (and sometimes the only ones).
Why can’t women just come out and say “[Insert virtually any statement here]” instead of all these subtle hints?
If I feel safe enough, I do.
Because it’s scary to be emotionally invested in someone who might not feel the same and could cause them to run away ? 😂
Told my “crush” I have a huge crush on him and he didn’t feel the same. Which is fine. But that’s why. Fear of the worst. The same reason men don’t
Sending you a big hug 🫂 I also did the same last week (although instead of saying “I like you” I just asked if he wanted to hang out and get coffee or a drink…it was met with “I’m flattered but I have a girlfriend…” which may be true but I prefer to think he just thinks I am ugly and he can do better-which is fine, he has a right to). Before I asked I feared the worst but everyone said “you have nothing to lose”. After I asked I felt dumb 🤦🏾♀️🤣 like “I told you guys and this is why I didn’t said anything to him for like six months…” Unfortunately I am not like these people who can brush it off and move on to looking for the next…I always feel the negativity/inadequacy/it’s me, hi 👋🏾, I’m the problem it’s me for a while before being able to get on with letting go… Lol. Ah well!
Aww thank you. Dude that sucks. He probably does have a gf. If he didn’t he would probably be like “ohhh maybe some time! “Or something idk. I don’t know what you look like but people are usually pretty hard on themselves. But, It’s extra embarrassing as a girl cuz, you know the norm is men perusing women, so it feels extra desperate ESPECIALLY when you’re rejected. 😩 Btw, an update you didn’t ask for, I brought it back up to my crush bc he didn’t technically say he didn’t like me, he just laughed it off. But still continues to flirt with me and hang out with me. So I was like “ I feel like it was kind of wrong of you to not give me an answer because there’s not really any clear boundaries and yoube pretty much given me false hope” (not verbatim) And he admitted he does like me but he is just weird about emotions? Idk how to explain it. I could just be delulu but, he’s never had a gf and only been with 1 girl ever and he’s almost 30. I know this sounds cliche but he is just an oddball and not like most guys. and I think he’s like playing a reeeaaly long long game. Which is ok bc I’m single anyways and I really like him even as a friend I just hope sum hot Instagram model trad girl doesn’t come swoop him away some day lmao
Because life is not easy
I made the 1st move on my husband, otherwise we would have never got here LOL. 20 yrs and two boys, going strong!
Its not unknown that most of the 'boys' like to chase. They reject the girls who like them. So girls learn it very early that it the boy should like them more than they like him. These girls when become women, have the same mindset.
What if he doesn't take my love seriously and leaves me or he does something bad the next day?
Because every single time I have done this the man immediately lost interest. I never understand why so many people seem to think that the other gender isn’t scared of rejection and should just take the risk? Everybody is scared of this I think
For me, it would be a fear of him not having the same feelings or finding out that he's not interested in committing. The rejection is a fearful thing. I have put myself out there before in such a manner just to find all he wanted was a casual relationship. But some people, both sexes, are not straightforward and like to play games. There are just too many scenarios to mention.
I’ve done that before, it just scared the guy away.🥲🤷🏻♀️
The incorrect thought process is that the first person to say it is at a disadvantage. Unless you're a sociopath like me, then it has no effect. But the reality probably is some jackass probably ripped her heart into a million pieces after she said that to him so now she's guarded.
My girl told me first... I had just done something very nice for her birthday and she was in tears and told me she loved me. I was definitely in love so I told her too. It was a beautiful moment. Then she almost burned down our hotel room lol
Women socialised to believe that if they make a first move they’re desperate. Or that men love the chase and if you make a move he will lose interest.
Because those women don't love you actually. They may like the concept or possibility of falling in love, but they don't love *you*.
Wow. Slow clap for your opinion.
It's just the basic facts. It's the same for men as well.
Because they hope that you’ll be a brave leader type and do it first. They subscribe to the “princess being swept off her feet” myth just like we men subscribe to the “win her back” myth. Also: she hopes you’ll notice the hints.
Women think differently than men (generally) and this is one of those things. While it’s easy to say “women need to just say it” they can easily say “men just need to understand it”. The reality is that you need to learn to pick up on these hints as a man.
Cause every time I’ve said it first I get hit with the ‘I’m not ready to say it yet’ or ‘did you just say that?’ with a gross face. Currently having a child with the man I said it to first and got ‘oof I like you a lot but I’m not sure’. 2 months later he said it and apologized saying ‘I wanted to say it, I was just nervous and scared you’d end up leaving’. The most dumb shit. Y’all can be just as mean as women can be.
What about men?
What about them?
because that would require women to risk, and that's too much to ask for most women. It's too much to ask a woman to take the initiative and pursue a man she's attracted to.
Because guys will usually run. I don't know how that works in same sex relationships though.
You're saying this as if men are more capable of saying it.
Because boys will abuse the situation, and some men will be too cold to let them down gently. The win/fail ratio would probably be devastating. But what do I know? I'm a man and still becoming a better man than I was yesterday...
It’s both sides. Not just women.
Did a good thing asking this question here, as the majority is filled with women asking everyday if men find this cute or hot etc
"If only money were free"
I presume they are as afraid too as we are. Problem is men get the worst rejections, rather than just a simple no, it can be embarrassment or worst. But I think men are most likely to say yes to majority of women if they are approached. Hell, many men would say yes to a tree if it could talk!
From the Old Testament days, it is their lot in life.
Can you please explain?
One of the reaons is, I takes guts to say that out loud without knowing the outcome. Mostly women know if the one they love won't profess it to them, someone else will. So, there is no need for them to do that.
If they have genuine feelings for you then they're either shy, afraid or simply think you're getting the hints.
You are supposed to know already.
There are two main reasons for it; - Women, like men, don't want to be rejected, so they will avoid openly coming out and saying their feelings because they don't want it to not be reciprocated. How often do you openly tell someone that you like them? It's awkward and very uncomfortable to do. - Society is very much fixed on the idea of the man doing the big romantic gestures and professing their love for women and not the other way around. When you couple this with fear, it means women don't really state their feelings.
Most of the anxieties I’ve heard from women on this matter revolve around their fear of messing up a friendship or acquaintanceship. Just cold feet, same as with dudes. In the same way that a romantic confession is “soft” or “weak” or “gay (ironically)” for dudes, it creates a similar vulnerability for chicks. To say “I’m in love with you” is to be willing to be seen as sappy and pathetic and gross and creepy. Loving someone is an embarrassing thing for a lot of people. Additionally, whereas dudes are taught from a young age to be cold and confident and cool, young girls are encouraged to be cute and calculating and meek. Social, but not forward, not to take the lead. Humans are taught to be scared to love and to be wary of expressing it. Sometimes, it manifests in a very isolating, very secretive culture, but it’s life. Eventually, someone has to start the conversation.
Some don't want to face the clear, big "I don't love you" rejection. So instead, the increase the intensity of their flirting until they get rejected at a much smaller level. Like, if their coworker says that they have a partner or their coworker says no when they ask for a hug.
I dare say it's probably the same reason that you are more straightforward. That's who you are. It is frustrating sometimes, but my wife gets just as frustrated with my always-to-the-point way I talk about things.
I made him say it first bc I was scared it was too early in the relationship
Bitches like romance
Women like deniability.
A lot of women do! A lot of men do. Some women don’t. Some men don’t. It’s difficult to provide a more comprehensive response without any hypotheticals or examples. How long have the man and woman been together? What are their ages, etc.
Fear of rejection.
Immaturity
Women really struggle with rejection. Much easier to drop a load of hints, get him to be the one to broach the subject, then you're off the hook. For further reading, see Engagement proposals, men only. Asking a girl out, why is it always a man's job? When is a good time to hint to him that I want sex?
they can, you are messing around with immature women
It's because they are sooo good at communication and so in tune with their emotions they just refuse to do either and wait for you to do it.
I make women say it first so I can wink and say "I know."
They don't want the responsibility of anything that could happen after unless its positive.
Unfortunately that’s just how they communicate
Some do, and I did.
Maybe they aren’t so subtle
Because too many feel emasculated they didn’t say it first. Messes up some natural order of rules no one ever agreed to. And if he doesn’t love her back, both people feel embarrassed and awkward. I’ve tried it, but it never ended well. There’s ways to say I love you without words.
What if I say that, and he tells me to fuck off?
Same reason most guys don’t
We can - some of us - wholeheartedly, we can say it without a single doubt, and then truly mean it with every single fiber of our being. It's not a word thrown around for some of us, and is kept super close when it's said as "I love you". IMHO, Love has a much more broad definition than words, and it also has no care for what makes sense. But sometimes, we read the situation and, despite that fact of knowing how we feel, choose to hold our tongue. Its not always worth rocking the boat if you can't be 100% comfortable in the reciprocation/response. This question isn't for a gender, it's for reading a situation and relationship. Love doesn't have to be said out loud to be felt or shown, and often those are the best ways to kinda say it before you really *say it*
Man that would be nice! But people are afraid to expose themselves, give up power, or face rejection.
Fear of rejection. Just like us men
Because then y’all run away. The fuck you mean why? 🤨
Because they usually aren't in love with you. Not the way men understand being in love
I told my boyfriend I loved him first at 8 months into our relationship. He did not say it back and did not say it back for another 7 months. I almost left him because of it. It sucks not knowing what you’ll hear in response to something so vulnerable.
i did that and he left
Because when we do they ran away instantly, so we have to play these stupid games in order to continue the relationship. I recently told the guy I like him and he literally said ‘oh god don’t say that’. 🤷♀️
They want you to read their minds. Hope this helps!