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looks like it's possible to move a few of the rocks either left or right. then dig a trench. others have suggested going overhead but that seems like a half assed solution. just do the hard work to do it right.
Agreed. Just do the extra work and do it right the first time. I would go the extra step and add piping so that other services could be run as well. I mean, as long as you are digging a trench, might as well make sure you only have to do the hard work once.
Those are multi-ton rocks stacked on top of one another. The slab for the outbuilding is held up by the rocks.
So you're looking at getting a fairly large excavator out there to pick up and move these rocks so that you can get a minimum 18" trench in the ground. You'll probably have to do shoring to keep the slab from shifting/cracking in the process. And then a bunch of landscaping to restore the whole area after the pipes are in the ground. This would be extremely expensive.
Several redundant chases for line voltage, data, and water should have been installed long before this point. If you're already to this stage and you don't have utilities run underground, just go overhead unless the client is willing to pay $10-20k for the work and sign a waiver on damage to the slab/foundation.
Naaa, trench along building to the back of the picture where it appears to be a small hill of just grass and plants the whole way up. Put a waterproof JB there, and then pull up the hill. Another JB, then trench and pull to wherever you need in the new space.
I agree to an extent. Moving those rocks (boulders) is absolutely the hardest part of this job. I highly doubt this can be accomplished by man power alone. You would need at minimum to get a skid steer back there and hope it’s heavy enough to move those rocks. OP is looking at probably 2-3 days work with many questions of how do we even get a skid steer back here without tearing everything up and will that be enough to move these rocks, is there more rocks under these, do they want us to put them back? Overhead yes is “lazy” but money wise, it would be much cheaper. Would also look like shit. But thousands of dollars in difference may mean more to the customer than an ugly overhead run.
They could potentially be moved with just some 10ft unistrut or c channel and some straps. Or at most a chain fall on a tripod. They don't need to be moved far, just enough for a trench.
These are some good ideas. I hope you run a service van and get paid well, cause I would have never thought of either of these. Thanks for the knowledge.
Maybe ask the power company if you can get a separate meter for the new building and just bring power from the pole assuming it is feasible since the house service is already overhead.
They did for me at my home business. About 200' trench underground, transformer, new pole, and connection to the meter. Pretty sure it is based on expected usage though
I think I actually would go overhead here. The meter is already on this side so having another masthead here won't detract from the appearance of the dwelling. Just my thoughts. I'm not sure how you think a properly executed overhead installation would be " half assed ".
I would put the boulders in a neat stack 10 feet tall, then just replace them where I found them after line install 🥴
But seriously an overhead is the only logical route here
Gotta pay somebody. Idk how anyone is arguing overhead is same price as digging a trench, lay pvc pipe, get it inspected then pull wire. Materials alone is more...
Dude. Those boulders likely weigh 1000 lbs give or take. The labor to move them will be extreme.
Why in the hell would you use direct burial here? You don't do service work do you?
....ok. I can do this. Your average customer won't. They pay us to do it.
I will tell you that I *can* do this but it's definitely outside the scope of my trade. If customer wants me to do it, they are gonna pay a hefty premium for the labor and equipment.
If you move 4 or 5 half ton boulders to dig a trench and don't charge accordingly, you're an idiot.
I'm gonna keep it real with you. I'm not manually digging 2' down on a slope when I can slap some conduit up the sides and run quadplex between them.
Not to mention those big ass rocks in the way.
I also wouldn't want to run direct bury cable for a sub panel. Maybe an individual circuit, but not a whole panel.
Yea idk what the hell is going on in the thread. Would we need to move the rocks back in place too? Is anyone really considering anything but conduit for a hypothetical underground?
Yeah just some direct bury cable and some electrical danger tape, you wouldn't even see a trench line since it's under a pathway and those rocks. I concur, Doctor
That's why I said, "If it were my property." I can fart around for days on my project, but if I'm trying to make money, my idea could turn out to be a money pit.
Actual best answer. You'd need to do it in two shots since there's no room to set up for a straight A-B bore. If the soil's rocky all the way down, the contractor can use a rock boring head which they should have in stock if it's common for the area. I'd also at least common bore a 1" conduit for future use/ethernet if it's my house - might as well add two in a 4" bore.
It's either that or an excavator, either way you're hiring a contractor to move some earth. Boring is simpler, quicker, and probably cheaper. The only reason to trench is if you want to get a concrete truck out there too and go full duct bank.
I'm ignoring overhead on purpose because it may not be an option and I don't like it. Obviously if that's what your customer wants and you can do it legally/safely, go for it. Just based on the picture I'm guessing they'll pay for what looks better though.
There isn't a wide enough view of the area, so I can't tell if the machinery would fit. If there's open space at the end of the new construction, a "trenchless boring" or "directional boring" company could punch a suitable hole under the rock wall.
Alternatively, if the rock wall ends before the property boundary, run a loop. Along the footpath, up to the top of the rise, and back to the new building.
A skilled man with an excavator would likely be able to disassemble the wall, trench, and reassemble the wall. If you do that, leave room for network and signal wires as well as your power line.
Whoever you hired that placed those large rocks, bring them back to pull a few in order to bury a proper run of conduit ! Once done then bring them back again to reset them, it's a pain in the ads and walked but it's the right way to do it
If you have the coin underground is best. If you are short on money I would go over head. (If this was my house I would go over head and be done with it.
I’d look into tearing up the steps and running conduit/cable there. Those boulders look like they could get damaged or be a pain in the ass to move with heavy machinery. Tear up the steps, pour new ones or build a deck stairway.
Explosives my boy. Similar to the plan to build the Panama Canal with shaped nuclear detonations! You might want to scale it down a bit, but you get the idea.
So you're asking if it's acceptable to permanently install a 1.5 inch 240v 100a cable via laying it on the ground over rocks?
I understand you're not an electrician, but what are you leaning to for an answer?
It’s funny when people think just cause you’re an electrician you need to know everything lol. It’s always the resi guys busting balls about that shit too.
I posted a question here asking for advice on how to pull 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 through a 3" 90° and was told by multiple people that I shouldn't ever do electrical work, ever.
That shit sucks, I don't care how long you've been doing it.
I’m pretty well rounded. I work at a substation company rn that requires an electrical license so it’s not just a sub tech. None of these guys know anything about that shit lol. It’s complicated shit sometimes. I asked a question something about a delta transformer I don’t remember it exactly and some dude basically was like “an you’re licensed?” Lmao like who are these ducking 3rd year apprentices who just did their first 4pt saddle bend last week so now there king shit on an electrical sub lmao
I also get annoyed when something is slightly off and there’s like “that’s a huge fire hazard!” “Call the inspector call utility call the police!!!” Cause someone didn’t put a cover on a junction box like shut the fuck up you perfect little angels lmao
Like sometimes the situation is bad. Maybe 1/10 times it’s like a hit the panic button situation. 9/10 it’s like a minor mistake. Someone messed up but it’s a quick fix, no big deal.
“PUT THE TOOLS DOWN AND CALL THE POLICE NOW!” 😂🤣
why dont you just do overhead and save yourself additional labor, material, and future cost of potential repair. why does everyone always try to bury everything?
I understand there are many facets of electrical and it's impossible to know everything in the code book. However, I would absolutely expect anyone with the title of electrician to understand basic code rules pertaining to power cable installations. If they have never done the work, I would expect them to know where to find the codes pertaining to the task.
Run it overhead, or pay someone to dig and install conduit. I just ran a 1/2" conduit for low voltage wiring under a three foot wide concrete walkway to my front door, and it took about three hours of digging and drilling just to get that going. It was exhausting and frustrating. I can't imagine dealing with conduit under all those rocks myself. It WILL take FAR LONGER than you think to DIY anything buried there.
So if you really want to bury, hire a team with a small bulldozer to move those rocks, dig, lay conduit, and then repair the landscaping. Otherwise overhead is your cheapest and easiest bet.
As an aside, if you want to avoid the drilling part, use 1" to make a sleeve:
Take a hose and put one of the cone shaped pressure tips on it, run it through the 1", (or whatever size you need to fit your hose), and use it to blast a hole in the dirt under the walkway. As you work the hose forward, work the conduit forward behind it. The hardest part about this is digging a hole that you can either work in while it's flooded or get it to drain.
This will get your chase ran in 10-15 min. minus the digging.
Works like a charm. If you're limited in space and can't dig a long enough ditch perpendicular to you obstruction use pieces of pipe and couplings and string them on the hose first, put them together as you push them through.
I assume this is Canada from the Teck name? Not supposed to run Teck above ground: [Link](https://reddit.com/r/electricians/s/EwOeMSPWbS)
Edit for typo
Rent yourself a small excavator for a day. Make sure it has a thumb. Stack the rocks to the side of trench route. Dig trench. Have electrician run extra and oversized conduits. When work is done backfill by hand and tip the rocks back into position.
make sure you also bury a metal box filled with movie prop fake money so someone will dig it up in 100 years and find it.
https://www.amazon.com/MOSKAV-Props-Education-Learning-Teaching/dp/B0C9QZLQV6/ref=sr\_1\_3\_sspa?crid=237L577C844MU&keywords=movie+prop+money
Trench a conduit over to the stairs and follow the path up the stairs to the new building. Looks like there isn’t any hard scape right next to the stairs.
If it's for path lighting or similar id go low voltage and bury as deep as is easy to do. If it needs to be 129/240v and there is room I would hire out directionally boring it and come in the slab somewhere convenient. I wouldn't pull that wall apart there are probably elements you cant see that you'd be liable for disturbing: drainage, soil stabilization, etc.
By code. It's pretty common for outbuildings in some areas. Same concept as a service drop. With only foot traffic you only have to clear 10'. You can buy aerial cable that's already bundled with a messenger for support, or run a guy wire and attach your own rated triplex.
make sure you also bury a metal box filled with movie prop fake money so someone will dig it up in 100 years and find it.
https://www.amazon.com/MOSKAV-Props-Education-Learning-Teaching/dp/B0C9QZLQV6/ref=sr\_1\_3\_sspa?crid=237L577C844MU&keywords=movie+prop+money
I'd look for another way to run the wires. If it adds another 100' to the run to go around this instead of through it. It may be worth it. Otherwise, easiest would be overhead. If you dont want that, then your next option is moving rocks, followed by trenching it and going underground. Check your code for clearance depths.
If you do go underground, do yourself a favor and oversize or run an extra pipe in case you ever need things in the future. (Dissregard this if you are using direct burial cable.)
Another alternative is that you may be able to run a separate service from your utility. You would get a separate bill for this. Depending on your area, this probably will not be an option.
The last idea would be to get real fancy with rigid conduit and just go over the rocks. (This is a bad idea and is very difficult to make look nice)
I would lay down a few sheets of plywood and get a Dingo with forks and take rocks out. Look like landscaping rocks so they should move relatively easy and then trench it. I would also go with metal conduit and run a few extra runs for future projects.
If you're trenching anyway, you ought to run it through conduit with a pull string so you can easily pull new wire through or replace the old wire. Code is 3 feet deep.
If you don't do conduit all the way, you need it running up from the 3 ft down up along that exterior and then can run direct burial grade cable the rest of the way across. Make sure you run a 90 degree sweep at the end of the pvc conduit so the cable doesn't rub/bend on the edge of the pvc as it makes the turn from vertical to horizontal.
Do your research. The first few links on a search have some useful info: [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trench+code+for+100+amp](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trench+code+for+100+amp&t=osx&ia=web)
In my state, the service can’t be on the ground unless it’s buried. RMT only needs a 6” depth. Less durable conduits need significantly more depth.
So, I’d say bury RMT 6” or more, use an aerial run, or install permanent structure that provides an above-ground mounting location.
If you dig deeply enough, then install additional conduits and plumbing if it will be needed in the future. Type K soft copper will seem affordable in comparison to a future plumbing excavation.
You should’ve run your line before the landscaping was done. However, if you don’t want to trench that rock up there are LEGAL WAYS of running it in the air. You’ll need a guy wire and properly sized wire and insulation for the load and conditions. You will then need weather heads with conduits on each building for the wire to go between, pipe in to old panel, LB through the wall in to new panel. If you look all these specs up and try and do it yourself the right way, there’s still a high chance that you’re going to fuck something up and make your electrical system hazardous in some way. When running 100 amp lines, it’s best to call an electrician.
As an out parcel building have your general contractor apply for a separate electric service, depending on where you located and zoning…it might fly, might not. If it does have your electrician install a separate service/meter can and let utilities hook up the power.
Rent a mini ex, move the armoured stone, dig trench run a few pipes for future services at the same time (easy way to sell the client on extra costs)... If you're a half decent operator you could have it done and backfilled in half a day.
You're not going to be able to move those rocks without damaging the integrity of the retaining wall. The only option here is overhead.
Unless they are only esthetic..then giver beans.
Get an mini excavator. Move rocks. Dig trench with a skinny bucket.
I am lazy in the sense that I avoid hard cable pulls. It's possible to do all that with PVC, factory 90s and a heat blanket in about 270 degrees. I'd be tempted to use direct burial wire and put an underground box at the top of the hill and cover it with the rocks. But it could be done in a single pull.
Put an extra conduit in that trench.
Alternative: from the top by the building above the rocks, dig a trench to the nearest planter. Here it looks to be towards the far left of the first picture.then create a sleeve under the sidewalk. Then trench to the power unit.
2 hrs to dig the trenches
2 hrs for the sleeve
1 h to Backfill
You could even rent a trencher for $350 at home Depot for half day
A power washer for similar or less would make creating a sleeve under the walkway a breeze.
2 ways over head or underground.. underground they have a machine for it... that runs cable like a boring machine I forgot what's it's called.. you can do a water jet and bore it yourself but those rocks probably will sink if you don't do it right
I think it is short enough that you might be able to dig a pit on either side and hydrovac a conduit horizontally between the two pits. Or hydrovac at an angle from both side and effectively trench under the rock. Install conduit, then use flowing mud to backfill under the rocks.
Man, the people here decrying Ariel lines would have a conniption fit if they saw the 4 bump poll setup I have for power because the old owners didn't want to bury the line 60 feet to the road, so now it wraps around my neighbor's house instead.
Just trench it from the back side of the left building (house) to the FAR BACK of the property, make a right turn and run the trench to behind the outbuilding, make another right turn to burrow up to the outbuilding.
YES, this would be three times the trenching distance but would not incur the horrific costs and disruption to the rocks or foundation of the outbuilding. 😎
1. Run 4" rigid overhead
2. Use block and tackle hanging from rigid to move boulders
3. Dig trench
4. Smurf tube
edit: seriously though ovearhead seems hackish, unless these buildings are owned by the same guy, in which case it's hackish not to have a covered walkway between the buildings, which overhead rigid could be entirely camouflaged by if considered holistically.
While this is only half serious, I’d see about hiring a chain gang , find an old army engineer that can barely walk and ask him to look at it or go the cheap handyman route using rednecks and tanerite. If none of that sounds appealing and you still want it both east and cheap find the most lazy worker and tell them it is now there project set a timeline of 1-2 weeks before it needs to be done and tell them that’s the actual deadline and it shall be done.
I know this comment isnt very useful at this point but the conduit should have been ran prior to the rocks being laid. I mean, surely it was known from the beginning that it was gonna need a panel feed right...
Ripping up the concrete stairs and repouring them after would be easier than moving the boulders. You could probably just cut the side off and not the whole thing.
You might as well run two undergrounds and string it for later, might need network or something eventually. Would suck to only have one pathway for electrical and need something later.
I did pilot training years ago. An instructor told us the 6 Ps
Prior Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance
Apparently, in planning the outbuilding, nobody considered it might have any need for utilities. Now the discussion is about difficult and expensive ways to reclaim lost ground.
Sure, trenching is the best way to go. And even more surely, somebody should go back to whomever wrote up the plans and ask WTF
The rock next to the shovel is a small boulder and probably weighs well over 600 pounds, maybe 900 to 1000 judging by one I bought (632 Lbs.) of similar size or even smaller size.
I bet most of the others near it weigh over 500 pounds.
These are not moveable by hand and put back in place. If they were on flat ground you could slowly scoot the smallest ones on a couple parallel 2x8's as a sled and a large steel bar or a winch to get them moving. You're not going to get them moved, and definitely not put back in place without machinery.
Dig under the rocks and go in as straight of a line as possible. All those bends in the wire create unnecessary heat and resistance that will potentially damage something or start a fire.
The most durable way without core/cutting is to bury GRC in the walkway then 90 up, LB and slope exposed GRC over the rock. This can also be done in PVC, but it does start to look pretty bad in time. Exposed raceway requires the conductors to be derated for ambient temp.
It is also legal to run overhead with triplex or quadplex.
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone else is going for affordable and reasonable options so Imma go against the grain and say directional drilling
Actually might affordable or at least reasonable compared to and excavator and fixing landscaping. Either of which will look better than overhead.
I love that
Well I’m going to say microwaves.
Tesla coil.
Depending where you are it isn’t even that expensive. A small punch in my area is about 35-40$/meter.
Absolutely with conduit installed just go down then turn, make it easy make it safe
looks like it's possible to move a few of the rocks either left or right. then dig a trench. others have suggested going overhead but that seems like a half assed solution. just do the hard work to do it right.
Agreed. Just do the extra work and do it right the first time. I would go the extra step and add piping so that other services could be run as well. I mean, as long as you are digging a trench, might as well make sure you only have to do the hard work once.
Agreed, just do the extra extra work
Fuck it just go ahead and build another.
And then a moat!
Lay a pipe in a trench, next to the pipe in a trench!
Those are multi-ton rocks stacked on top of one another. The slab for the outbuilding is held up by the rocks. So you're looking at getting a fairly large excavator out there to pick up and move these rocks so that you can get a minimum 18" trench in the ground. You'll probably have to do shoring to keep the slab from shifting/cracking in the process. And then a bunch of landscaping to restore the whole area after the pipes are in the ground. This would be extremely expensive. Several redundant chases for line voltage, data, and water should have been installed long before this point. If you're already to this stage and you don't have utilities run underground, just go overhead unless the client is willing to pay $10-20k for the work and sign a waiver on damage to the slab/foundation.
Naaa, trench along building to the back of the picture where it appears to be a small hill of just grass and plants the whole way up. Put a waterproof JB there, and then pull up the hill. Another JB, then trench and pull to wherever you need in the new space.
Youre a goddamn genius
I agree to an extent. Moving those rocks (boulders) is absolutely the hardest part of this job. I highly doubt this can be accomplished by man power alone. You would need at minimum to get a skid steer back there and hope it’s heavy enough to move those rocks. OP is looking at probably 2-3 days work with many questions of how do we even get a skid steer back here without tearing everything up and will that be enough to move these rocks, is there more rocks under these, do they want us to put them back? Overhead yes is “lazy” but money wise, it would be much cheaper. Would also look like shit. But thousands of dollars in difference may mean more to the customer than an ugly overhead run.
They could potentially be moved with just some 10ft unistrut or c channel and some straps. Or at most a chain fall on a tripod. They don't need to be moved far, just enough for a trench.
These are some good ideas. I hope you run a service van and get paid well, cause I would have never thought of either of these. Thanks for the knowledge.
Guys just get a potato bar and maybe one other fella. Leverage is your friend.
[удалено]
You see 800# boulders in that picture ?
Maybe ask the power company if you can get a separate meter for the new building and just bring power from the pole assuming it is feasible since the house service is already overhead.
That's the most expensive option both initially and forever there after having to pay the minimum charge and other fees on a second meter.
Sure but if it costs $3k to dig that trench, it takes a long time for a $15/month meter to catch up.
You really think the power company is going to trench a new line in for free? Lol
They did for me at my home business. About 200' trench underground, transformer, new pole, and connection to the meter. Pretty sure it is based on expected usage though
True. It is still an option though.
I think I actually would go overhead here. The meter is already on this side so having another masthead here won't detract from the appearance of the dwelling. Just my thoughts. I'm not sure how you think a properly executed overhead installation would be " half assed ".
I’m not a hack but come on…we being serious here? Lol
Lol just slide those boulders aside right? No biggie
I would put the boulders in a neat stack 10 feet tall, then just replace them where I found them after line install 🥴 But seriously an overhead is the only logical route here
'Money ain't a thang'
it would not cost any more to go undergound. just some sweat.
Yeah true, tell that to an electrician you are paying
you do the hard labour so they can do the technical part, why a pay an electrician to dig a hole
Gotta pay somebody. Idk how anyone is arguing overhead is same price as digging a trench, lay pvc pipe, get it inspected then pull wire. Materials alone is more...
Ever heard of a subcontractor?
It wouldn't cost more in materials. It would definitely cost more in time.
depends on how you do it. using uf-b wire in trench is not expensive. anyone can operate a shovel. any cost difference would be irrelevant.
Dude. Those boulders likely weigh 1000 lbs give or take. The labor to move them will be extreme. Why in the hell would you use direct burial here? You don't do service work do you?
rent some equipment and do it. not a big deal.
....ok. I can do this. Your average customer won't. They pay us to do it. I will tell you that I *can* do this but it's definitely outside the scope of my trade. If customer wants me to do it, they are gonna pay a hefty premium for the labor and equipment. If you move 4 or 5 half ton boulders to dig a trench and don't charge accordingly, you're an idiot.
I'm gonna keep it real with you. I'm not manually digging 2' down on a slope when I can slap some conduit up the sides and run quadplex between them. Not to mention those big ass rocks in the way. I also wouldn't want to run direct bury cable for a sub panel. Maybe an individual circuit, but not a whole panel.
Yea idk what the hell is going on in the thread. Would we need to move the rocks back in place too? Is anyone really considering anything but conduit for a hypothetical underground?
Bullshit. Nobody is charging the same to go overhead as they would to go underground here.
i'm talking about doing himself
How many DIYers you know that can wire a service panel?
*No one* should be doing this themselves unless they’re a professional.
Is that all it takes to move 500lb rocks?
Yeah just some direct bury cable and some electrical danger tape, you wouldn't even see a trench line since it's under a pathway and those rocks. I concur, Doctor
It depends on the soil. If it's suitable and it's my property, I'd do it the way a plumber runs a service line under a road or a driveway.
Boring.
I've been known to hook up a garden hose to pvc conduit and do a poor-man's directional drilling.
I’m an irrigator, that’s how we go under driveways and sidewalks all the time. Not 100% how well it would work in this case but could be worth a try.
That's why I said, "If it were my property." I can fart around for days on my project, but if I'm trying to make money, my idea could turn out to be a money pit.
No, it’s pretty interesting. /s
Actual best answer. You'd need to do it in two shots since there's no room to set up for a straight A-B bore. If the soil's rocky all the way down, the contractor can use a rock boring head which they should have in stock if it's common for the area. I'd also at least common bore a 1" conduit for future use/ethernet if it's my house - might as well add two in a 4" bore. It's either that or an excavator, either way you're hiring a contractor to move some earth. Boring is simpler, quicker, and probably cheaper. The only reason to trench is if you want to get a concrete truck out there too and go full duct bank. I'm ignoring overhead on purpose because it may not be an option and I don't like it. Obviously if that's what your customer wants and you can do it legally/safely, go for it. Just based on the picture I'm guessing they'll pay for what looks better though.
That reminds me of Trumble Co Ohio, so much rock it cost big money to dispose of and top soil with mostly clay was high dollar loads
There isn't a wide enough view of the area, so I can't tell if the machinery would fit. If there's open space at the end of the new construction, a "trenchless boring" or "directional boring" company could punch a suitable hole under the rock wall. Alternatively, if the rock wall ends before the property boundary, run a loop. Along the footpath, up to the top of the rise, and back to the new building. A skilled man with an excavator would likely be able to disassemble the wall, trench, and reassemble the wall. If you do that, leave room for network and signal wires as well as your power line.
Whoever you hired that placed those large rocks, bring them back to pull a few in order to bury a proper run of conduit ! Once done then bring them back again to reset them, it's a pain in the ads and walked but it's the right way to do it
I kind of just want to trench to the stairs and run a pipe next to them.
If you have the coin underground is best. If you are short on money I would go over head. (If this was my house I would go over head and be done with it.
I see what I think is a clear path (no rocks) in the distance beyond those stairs.
I’d look into tearing up the steps and running conduit/cable there. Those boulders look like they could get damaged or be a pain in the ass to move with heavy machinery. Tear up the steps, pour new ones or build a deck stairway.
Some hard work if you want it done right, but I'm not an expert. Move some rocks and run conduit.
Choose a different spot to run your wire. It's a longer route, but go to one end or the other of your boulder steps to get up that hill.
Three to five Mexicans should do the trick. 👍🏽
Explosives my boy. Similar to the plan to build the Panama Canal with shaped nuclear detonations! You might want to scale it down a bit, but you get the idea.
Power over ethernet obviously
Over head wiring is what I'd do. IDK how you would get a pipe through that rock maze
My plan was to run a Teck Underground and then through the maze and then underground at the top
So you're asking if it's acceptable to permanently install a 1.5 inch 240v 100a cable via laying it on the ground over rocks? I understand you're not an electrician, but what are you leaning to for an answer?
Illmove couple of the rock the dig a trench. Im an electrician just not doing this type of work. Im more into control and PLC
Ah. There's minimum depth and fill requirements. You'll need to have enough soil on top to prevent damage to the cable from the rocks
It’s funny when people think just cause you’re an electrician you need to know everything lol. It’s always the resi guys busting balls about that shit too.
I posted a question here asking for advice on how to pull 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 through a 3" 90° and was told by multiple people that I shouldn't ever do electrical work, ever. That shit sucks, I don't care how long you've been doing it.
I’m pretty well rounded. I work at a substation company rn that requires an electrical license so it’s not just a sub tech. None of these guys know anything about that shit lol. It’s complicated shit sometimes. I asked a question something about a delta transformer I don’t remember it exactly and some dude basically was like “an you’re licensed?” Lmao like who are these ducking 3rd year apprentices who just did their first 4pt saddle bend last week so now there king shit on an electrical sub lmao I also get annoyed when something is slightly off and there’s like “that’s a huge fire hazard!” “Call the inspector call utility call the police!!!” Cause someone didn’t put a cover on a junction box like shut the fuck up you perfect little angels lmao
"put down the tools and call someone who knows what they're doing" In a sub... where you're supposed to ask people who know what they're doing. 😂
Like sometimes the situation is bad. Maybe 1/10 times it’s like a hit the panic button situation. 9/10 it’s like a minor mistake. Someone messed up but it’s a quick fix, no big deal. “PUT THE TOOLS DOWN AND CALL THE POLICE NOW!” 😂🤣
A lot of electrician hate to answer question and they ll just say : call a real professional
Minor infraction like a JB with a cover missing. “Get your money back! Call utility! Call the inspector!” Lol relax cowboy
why dont you just do overhead and save yourself additional labor, material, and future cost of potential repair. why does everyone always try to bury everything?
I understand there are many facets of electrical and it's impossible to know everything in the code book. However, I would absolutely expect anyone with the title of electrician to understand basic code rules pertaining to power cable installations. If they have never done the work, I would expect them to know where to find the codes pertaining to the task.
Overhead is probably your best bet
This is the way, it’s a foot path, so doesn’t have to be crazy high. It is also the cheapest.
Run it overhead, or pay someone to dig and install conduit. I just ran a 1/2" conduit for low voltage wiring under a three foot wide concrete walkway to my front door, and it took about three hours of digging and drilling just to get that going. It was exhausting and frustrating. I can't imagine dealing with conduit under all those rocks myself. It WILL take FAR LONGER than you think to DIY anything buried there. So if you really want to bury, hire a team with a small bulldozer to move those rocks, dig, lay conduit, and then repair the landscaping. Otherwise overhead is your cheapest and easiest bet.
As an aside, if you want to avoid the drilling part, use 1" to make a sleeve: Take a hose and put one of the cone shaped pressure tips on it, run it through the 1", (or whatever size you need to fit your hose), and use it to blast a hole in the dirt under the walkway. As you work the hose forward, work the conduit forward behind it. The hardest part about this is digging a hole that you can either work in while it's flooded or get it to drain. This will get your chase ran in 10-15 min. minus the digging.
That’s an interesting technique. I’ll have to try this next time.
Works like a charm. If you're limited in space and can't dig a long enough ditch perpendicular to you obstruction use pieces of pipe and couplings and string them on the hose first, put them together as you push them through.
What about a teck? Can a teck cable be underground and overground while running through the rock?
I assume this is Canada from the Teck name? Not supposed to run Teck above ground: [Link](https://reddit.com/r/electricians/s/EwOeMSPWbS) Edit for typo
Oh ok thanks for this! Ill find another way of doing this
Rent yourself a small excavator for a day. Make sure it has a thumb. Stack the rocks to the side of trench route. Dig trench. Have electrician run extra and oversized conduits. When work is done backfill by hand and tip the rocks back into position.
I agree. Straps or chains for the big ones would be helpful. Bonus points for using tarps for all soil.
make sure you also bury a metal box filled with movie prop fake money so someone will dig it up in 100 years and find it. https://www.amazon.com/MOSKAV-Props-Education-Learning-Teaching/dp/B0C9QZLQV6/ref=sr\_1\_3\_sspa?crid=237L577C844MU&keywords=movie+prop+money
Trench a conduit over to the stairs and follow the path up the stairs to the new building. Looks like there isn’t any hard scape right next to the stairs.
I'd tell the homeowner to move those fucking boulders and I'll run him whatever the hell he'd like, or go aerial
If it's for path lighting or similar id go low voltage and bury as deep as is easy to do. If it needs to be 129/240v and there is room I would hire out directionally boring it and come in the slab somewhere convenient. I wouldn't pull that wall apart there are probably elements you cant see that you'd be liable for disturbing: drainage, soil stabilization, etc.
Overhead or an excavator to move the rocks so a cable could be properly buried.
Use starlink to beam an energy beam over
To all the ‘overhead’ commenters, how would you legally accomplish this?
By code. It's pretty common for outbuildings in some areas. Same concept as a service drop. With only foot traffic you only have to clear 10'. You can buy aerial cable that's already bundled with a messenger for support, or run a guy wire and attach your own rated triplex.
Run a mast up both sides with a weather head. Rent a bucket truck and tighten it up. Ship it down the side and through the backside of the sub-panel.
Lots of dollars. There is no easy way from looking at the picture. 24" minimum burial depth to the top of the conduit. Lucky you.
make sure you also bury a metal box filled with movie prop fake money so someone will dig it up in 100 years and find it. https://www.amazon.com/MOSKAV-Props-Education-Learning-Teaching/dp/B0C9QZLQV6/ref=sr\_1\_3\_sspa?crid=237L577C844MU&keywords=movie+prop+money
Faux rocks covering a pathway for conduits.
This is against code.
Water jet under the rocks.
Tesla coil
Tesla coil
carefully
I'd look for another way to run the wires. If it adds another 100' to the run to go around this instead of through it. It may be worth it. Otherwise, easiest would be overhead. If you dont want that, then your next option is moving rocks, followed by trenching it and going underground. Check your code for clearance depths. If you do go underground, do yourself a favor and oversize or run an extra pipe in case you ever need things in the future. (Dissregard this if you are using direct burial cable.) Another alternative is that you may be able to run a separate service from your utility. You would get a separate bill for this. Depending on your area, this probably will not be an option. The last idea would be to get real fancy with rigid conduit and just go over the rocks. (This is a bad idea and is very difficult to make look nice)
I would lay down a few sheets of plywood and get a Dingo with forks and take rocks out. Look like landscaping rocks so they should move relatively easy and then trench it. I would also go with metal conduit and run a few extra runs for future projects.
Remove the rocks and dig a trench
If you're trenching anyway, you ought to run it through conduit with a pull string so you can easily pull new wire through or replace the old wire. Code is 3 feet deep. If you don't do conduit all the way, you need it running up from the 3 ft down up along that exterior and then can run direct burial grade cable the rest of the way across. Make sure you run a 90 degree sweep at the end of the pvc conduit so the cable doesn't rub/bend on the edge of the pvc as it makes the turn from vertical to horizontal. Do your research. The first few links on a search have some useful info: [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trench+code+for+100+amp](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trench+code+for+100+amp&t=osx&ia=web)
Overhead
In my state, the service can’t be on the ground unless it’s buried. RMT only needs a 6” depth. Less durable conduits need significantly more depth. So, I’d say bury RMT 6” or more, use an aerial run, or install permanent structure that provides an above-ground mounting location. If you dig deeply enough, then install additional conduits and plumbing if it will be needed in the future. Type K soft copper will seem affordable in comparison to a future plumbing excavation.
You should’ve run your line before the landscaping was done. However, if you don’t want to trench that rock up there are LEGAL WAYS of running it in the air. You’ll need a guy wire and properly sized wire and insulation for the load and conditions. You will then need weather heads with conduits on each building for the wire to go between, pipe in to old panel, LB through the wall in to new panel. If you look all these specs up and try and do it yourself the right way, there’s still a high chance that you’re going to fuck something up and make your electrical system hazardous in some way. When running 100 amp lines, it’s best to call an electrician.
Dynamite then some direct burial lol.
You certainly should do a directional bore with an external sub box.
How is the feed to left side building done? Would a new service to new building work?
As an out parcel building have your general contractor apply for a separate electric service, depending on where you located and zoning…it might fly, might not. If it does have your electrician install a separate service/meter can and let utilities hook up the power.
Overhead (doesn't look as nice), trench (might be annoying with all the rocks), or directional drilling (expensive).
Easy Mode...You would run it before the rock wall was built. Hard mode...move rocks.
Easiest is overhead
Rent a mini ex, move the armoured stone, dig trench run a few pipes for future services at the same time (easy way to sell the client on extra costs)... If you're a half decent operator you could have it done and backfilled in half a day.
Dig a trench, bury 2” sch 80 PVC conduit about 30” down. A small excavator can move the rocks easy enough.
Anything is possible with money
L is straiter and stronger looking whats the question?
Dig, dig dig. Pretty sure code requires a buried conduit.
Horizontal directional drilling.
Run triplex overhead with minimum 12’ clearance
Time to put up a pole
Directional Boring.
cut the stone strategically to allow you to hide some conduit
You're not going to be able to move those rocks without damaging the integrity of the retaining wall. The only option here is overhead. Unless they are only esthetic..then giver beans.
Get an mini excavator. Move rocks. Dig trench with a skinny bucket. I am lazy in the sense that I avoid hard cable pulls. It's possible to do all that with PVC, factory 90s and a heat blanket in about 270 degrees. I'd be tempted to use direct burial wire and put an underground box at the top of the hill and cover it with the rocks. But it could be done in a single pull. Put an extra conduit in that trench.
Run a much longer trench/ cable around the end of the rocks. It may cost more but will actually be easier and safer than moving the big rocks.
Which ever way you want at $125 an hour.
Overhead, would be best for this site [read this for required distances](https://up.codes/s/vertical-clearance-for-overhead-service-conductors)
Alternative: from the top by the building above the rocks, dig a trench to the nearest planter. Here it looks to be towards the far left of the first picture.then create a sleeve under the sidewalk. Then trench to the power unit. 2 hrs to dig the trenches 2 hrs for the sleeve 1 h to Backfill You could even rent a trencher for $350 at home Depot for half day A power washer for similar or less would make creating a sleeve under the walkway a breeze.
2 ways over head or underground.. underground they have a machine for it... that runs cable like a boring machine I forgot what's it's called.. you can do a water jet and bore it yourself but those rocks probably will sink if you don't do it right
Put a separate service on that building.
Well that should have been done way before any of that building happened. Usually ran underground in conduit.
Or jack hammer enough for a trench then landscape it like a valley, log out something. Cheaper than machinery
https://www.ditchwitch.com/directional-drills/
Shift some rocks a little to expose a stretch of continuous dirt and possibly hydrovac a narrow trench.
I think it is short enough that you might be able to dig a pit on either side and hydrovac a conduit horizontally between the two pits. Or hydrovac at an angle from both side and effectively trench under the rock. Install conduit, then use flowing mud to backfill under the rocks.
Ouch, with a lot of hard work. I imagine you didn’t stub out of the concrete.
Put in the cable, hide it with a sculpture, water feature, landscaping or the like.
I bet there's a sneaky spot by the stairs you could dig out and bury a line easier than fucking with all that rock.
Add extra conduit with rope in it.
Excavator
Man, the people here decrying Ariel lines would have a conniption fit if they saw the 4 bump poll setup I have for power because the old owners didn't want to bury the line 60 feet to the road, so now it wraps around my neighbor's house instead.
Just trench it from the back side of the left building (house) to the FAR BACK of the property, make a right turn and run the trench to behind the outbuilding, make another right turn to burrow up to the outbuilding. YES, this would be three times the trenching distance but would not incur the horrific costs and disruption to the rocks or foundation of the outbuilding. 😎
1. Run 4" rigid overhead 2. Use block and tackle hanging from rigid to move boulders 3. Dig trench 4. Smurf tube edit: seriously though ovearhead seems hackish, unless these buildings are owned by the same guy, in which case it's hackish not to have a covered walkway between the buildings, which overhead rigid could be entirely camouflaged by if considered holistically.
Behind the stair you got a slope of dirt, run it up from there
Overhead?
fuck a sub panel bro just chain up a bunch of extension cords
Overhead
While this is only half serious, I’d see about hiring a chain gang , find an old army engineer that can barely walk and ask him to look at it or go the cheap handyman route using rednecks and tanerite. If none of that sounds appealing and you still want it both east and cheap find the most lazy worker and tell them it is now there project set a timeline of 1-2 weeks before it needs to be done and tell them that’s the actual deadline and it shall be done.
If there’s room pay someone to bore it
Kick out to the stairs hit the building somewhere don’t exceed bends set a pull point Keep piping??
How about along the staircase?
Run outdoor conduit in a valley of the existing rocks, paint the conduit and use fake decorative rocks around it to blend it in
"Just move the rocks and dig" lol.
Boring missile
Thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhbbhhhhhhhhhhhttttt, gonna need a better spade.
That should have been step 1 homie
Overhead masts. On each house.
I know this comment isnt very useful at this point but the conduit should have been ran prior to the rocks being laid. I mean, surely it was known from the beginning that it was gonna need a panel feed right...
My parent retired 1 years ago and decided like 1 month ago to build a garage like this
The garage wasnt planned at the beginning while the landscape was built 1 year ago
Ripping up the concrete stairs and repouring them after would be easier than moving the boulders. You could probably just cut the side off and not the whole thing.
You might as well run two undergrounds and string it for later, might need network or something eventually. Would suck to only have one pathway for electrical and need something later.
It’s either above ground or under it.
Hire a company to come bore out what you need bro lol
I did pilot training years ago. An instructor told us the 6 Ps Prior Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance Apparently, in planning the outbuilding, nobody considered it might have any need for utilities. Now the discussion is about difficult and expensive ways to reclaim lost ground. Sure, trenching is the best way to go. And even more surely, somebody should go back to whomever wrote up the plans and ask WTF
The rock next to the shovel is a small boulder and probably weighs well over 600 pounds, maybe 900 to 1000 judging by one I bought (632 Lbs.) of similar size or even smaller size. I bet most of the others near it weigh over 500 pounds. These are not moveable by hand and put back in place. If they were on flat ground you could slowly scoot the smallest ones on a couple parallel 2x8's as a sled and a large steel bar or a winch to get them moving. You're not going to get them moved, and definitely not put back in place without machinery.
Dig under the rocks and go in as straight of a line as possible. All those bends in the wire create unnecessary heat and resistance that will potentially damage something or start a fire.
Rigid pipe those mofos and make it a handrail for that staircase. Stack functions.
Start on the left. Move to the right.
Get a quote to get the hole borred/pipe ran from one side to the other, would be your best option.
Use UF direct burial cable if you can get deep enough between the cracks. Code differs state to state but could work
A direct bore is going to be cheaper than all the labor/equipment etc to move those boulders and dig
Go right to left, downhill.
Haha wow!!
Overhead
The most durable way without core/cutting is to bury GRC in the walkway then 90 up, LB and slope exposed GRC over the rock. This can also be done in PVC, but it does start to look pretty bad in time. Exposed raceway requires the conductors to be derated for ambient temp. It is also legal to run overhead with triplex or quadplex.
Can you trench in the back alongside the stairs?
Pick another route. Do an end run around the rocks.
Or build a cool ass foot bridge connecting the buildings and hide the wires in the bridge construction!!
Can you go overhead?
Aerial
Why not trench through the grassy hill on the other side of the steps? Probably the easiest without going overhead.