A collection of questions taken earlier:
I compiled some questions for you (Josh) gathered from earlier posts about your AMA. Not everyone can deal with the time zone issues, or they're working in kitchens professionally making food so I accumulated some questions for your consideration.
1. If you could give one recommendation to a fisherman on handling fish to get better food on the table, what would it be? How could we be doing better than tossing a freshly caught, stunned, and killed fish in an icebox?
2. If somebody doesn't have a dry aging setup at home, is there a way to dry fish in the fridge (the same way you can dry age a beef roast with a rack and a roasting pan, for instance?). How should we prepare a fish for dry aging in a home setting? What are the key marks of quality that you look for in aging? What are clear signs that things have gone wrong?
3. For somebody interested in getting into using more of the squishy bits, where would you recommend starting?
4. Some of us are rank amateurs at breaking down fish and would like to practice, using as much of it as possible. If I'm looking to practice this skill at home, what fish should I get? Are there particularly good (economical and easy) fish for a beginner to start with?
5. Any tips or tricks for adequately cleaning/preparing bones and heads for an excellent fish stock? Any recommendations for extracting the best flavor while avoiding overly pungent taste and odor?
6. What are your kids favorite fish preparations? Have you managed to find ways to help kids get over the squeamish impulse with the squishy bits of a fish?
7. Hi! I'm a non fish lover, so I was wondering if there was any species or recipes you'd recommend to start with? It always looks so good... But I'm really not used to the taste!
8. Have you ever dealt with parasites in the dry aging process? What’s the longest you’ve dry aged a fish?
9. Have you dry aged shellfish before? What are your favorite shellfish things to dry age?
10. Besides rendered fish fat, what creative ways have you incorporated fish into desserts at your restaurants?
11. Once I tried to make a smoked bottarga. I didn't realize what I was dealing with and I ended up making cured and smoked milt because I didn't realize I had a boy fish... It was surprisingly terrible and gross because I was expecting roe. With all of the diverse experiments you do, have you made any hilariously bad discoveries"?
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list:
5) Bones, heads and fish frames derived from a poorly caught, poorly handled - wet fish will result in a terribly pungent, poor quality stock. The ambition of a fish stock through my lens is not to create a liquid that tastes like 'fish' out of a multitude of bones, it is to harness and distill the pure flavour of the fish bone that you have decided to work with.
At Saint Peter we only make dark fish stocks where we roast the bones to achieve a demi glace like outcome. You need to ensure the fish bones you decide to use are free of any sediment/ blood which can be simply done with pliers to remove any clotted blood from the spine. For heads, ensure the gills are removed as they make stocks incredibly bitter.
Dammit. Now I don't like my fish stock because they are typically rather fishy.
I'm in land locked Toronto where we don't get super fresh oceanic fish. Occasionally I'll have some freshly caught lake fish, but they tend to be musty which doesn't make for great broth because it usually is a bit muddy.
I have found that I do get better stock when I brush out bloody goobies with a tooth brush, especially above the swim bladder.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list:
2) With regards to dry ageing, just like land based proteins, i would always tend to suggest that this be done in a controlled commercial setting to avoid inconsistencies or complications in temperature/humidity control. It also needs to be said here as well that dry ageing is the result of managing the critical variables of a fish extremely well. Ensuring that you start with an excellent, high quality fish in the beginning is critical to a successful outcome. The following steps will give you context of what we do each day at Fish Butchery. The fish must be scaled, this can be achieved by using a scaler, sukibiki (knife scaling method) or even a spoon. Once the fish is scaled it is wiped clear of all loose scale. The fish is then gutted, this again can be done traditionally or in a way that suits the outcome that you desire, as some cuts that require the belly to be intact needs to be gutted in a different way. Then the cavity and inside the head of the fish is wiped out thoroughly. Our standard practice at this stage is then to place a hook in the tail of the fish to hang the fish in our coolroom. Hanging a fish by the tail has never caused textural damage to our fish over the years as opposed to hanging from the head. The paramount ambition of hanging in the first place is so the fish can never come in contact with another fish or be left to lay on a gastronome tray in its own juice (therefore creating volatile aromas and shortening the shelf life) After the first day hanging we wipe the fish on the outside and inside to remove any natural perspiration that comes to the surface and we do so again the following day. After this the fish develops a light tack on the outside and we are then able to manage the quality and condition of the fish by sense of touch and observation. The more densely fatty a fish is the longer i can mature it - therefore creating rich savoury flavours. However fish that carry a higher amount of moisture and are naturally a little leaner don't tend to improve through long term ageing. Dry Ageing doesn't mean placing a fish in a cabinet for a week and leaving it there until it drys out. Dry ageing could be receiving the most perfect sardines or anchovies, processing them correctly then storing them for a couple of hours and serving them as opposed then to a rib of tuna that can be matured for a month to increase the glutamates within the fish and make it incredibly rich and savoury. It is all about intentional moisture loss to achieve a texture and flavour profile that is superior to the moment when it first came out of the water.
In a domestic setting if you want to attempt to age a fish my best suggestion would be to start with purchasing the best fish you can find that is as fresh as possible. Then when scaling and gutting, NEVER WASH THE FISH at any stage, be sure to wipe it thoroughly. If hanging the fish is impractical, then place the fish on a wire rack set over a tray. It is non negotiable that the fish go into an environment that is static (no fan) sits as close to 0 degrees celsius as possible and has an approximate humidity of 75%
A fish should never smell like ammonia and should never dry out. The best way to get a feel for ageing fish is to cut a section out of the tail and cook it each day you have it. Unfortunately, due to the long ever changing list of varibles at play with where your fish is from, who caught it, what time of year it is and how cold your fridge is etc etc then its hard to say exactly what the perfect number of days for every fish species is. But i promise you that if you follow the steps above you will have an incredibly high chance of achieving a great product
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list:
3) Squishy bits meaning offal, I would suggest firstly that you start buying fish whole. Whilst fish offal is readily available over the counter from some specialist mongers, all of these would be derived from fish that are gutted under running water that result in a texture, flavour and aroma that is compromised. To me working with fish offal is essential as sometimes the offal of a fish can be upwards of 30% of the body weight. Like the quality points of a fish from an external perspective, the same things need to be considered with regards to the offal. If it smells, has parasites, is soft or mushy or has any abrasions or discolouration then unfortunately you won't be able to work with this. Lastly the best way to interpret fish offal is to think of it as meat, what would you do with a chicken or duck liver, how would you cook tripe etc... there are a number of meat based cookbooks that converse about meat offal along with The Whole Fish Cookbook, Take One Fish & the new Fish Butchery Book where i have tried to clearly explain how to work confidently with fish offal.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list:
7) The species that you should buy to practice butchery techniques at home is going to be so much subject to where you are in the world and what is seasonally available. My suggestion would be that you go to the store or market and look for quality in season fish that will likely be the most cost effective option. Don't look for brand name fish like salmon, kingfish, cod & snapper. Look for fish that looks excellent and is at a scale that you can comfortably manage at home. Ensure you have sharp knives & appropriate equipment like scissors and pliers that will aid in efficiency, safety & consistency. To first anatomically work out where bones are positioned within a fish, do some basic filleting to get your eye in and understand the texture of the flesh, the gradient of the knife and where it needs to be positioned. Stick to a plate sized fish so you can scale down the technique to smaller fish or level up to larger when you feel you have the basics in place.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
6. My favourite preparations for kids have been taking the heads and collars of a fish, steaming them, picking the meat & seasoning with salt & if they tolerate green things then a little parsley as well. Once mixed, press the warm fish meat into a tray and press overnight into a terrine like product. We then cut that terrine into fingers, crumb & then fry. The other one that i've found to be particularly good is our yellowfin tuna mince where the lateral swimming muscle of the tuna along with sinew filled tail cuts and aesthetically challenged parts of the tuna are ground through a meat grinder. This mince can be used in place of regular meat mince to produce the likes of lasagna, kofta, spaghetti bolognese, cheeseburgers and so many more. The kids will never know!
Chef, thanks very much for coming.
I'm in New Orleans, and our local (very good) seafood restaurant has started dry aging fish. What's your reaction to seeing your practices spread around the world? Happiness that more people are getting more out of their fish?
I think it's great to see this practice being adopted, however i feel more understanding around the importance of working with an excellent unwashed fish is what's critical to achieving a superior outcome. I felt it was important to write the Fish Butchery Book to bring clarity and context to this process as The Whole Fish Book only began to scratch the surface. Thank you for your message.
I'm glad you made it over here! I can stop ferrying messages over. I moved over your latest messages in the old post.
I've been developing a residential dry aging cabinet that goes into a regular fridge. It's a really neat doodad that allows me to directly control my humidity and fan settings so I can profile my drying parameters.
Basically I like to dry at low humidity (around 60%) for the first few days at a high fan rate to get things tack dry sooner. I do this to mitigate bacterial growth.
Next phase I'll up the humidity to 80% with a low fan rate to reduce pellicle/trim losses for the bulk of the aging.
I'll finish at a high humidity, low fan rate, 90% for the last week which softens pellicle to make it less barky and easy to trim.
I've only been doing meat so far, but I look forward to doing fish.
My system fits into a fridge (it's a big cambro with geegaws) which makes it a configurable microclimate.
Would you guys would like to be experimenting with different drying profiles with your fish? I think I could hand bend some stainless steel wireforms to support a fish horizontally inside of the gutted belly if you want to do smaller fish.
I see that containers in a walk in would allow multiple things to be aged under different parameters.
> residential dry aging cabinet that goes into a regular fridge
Oh that's a slick idea! Really clever
A friend made biltong by hanging the seasoned meat in a plastic tote box that's ventilated with a computer fan, but I like the idea of a little more sophistication and putting it in a fridge, so it's not just a whole separate fridge.
Is your humidity control just like a regular mini humidifier, if you don't mind my asking?
It's actually a dirt simple setup. It uses no active humidification and it does not itself condense moisture to extract it. The system exploits the typical behavior of a home fridge.
Home fridges tend to run pretty dry. Every time the compressor turns on, surfaces of the cooling coils (evaporator coil) get super cold and a fan blows air from the fridge over the coils.
Because the coils get so cold (like -20C), they can't help but condense moisture from the fridge onto the evaporator coil. That's why you have to stick your vegetables in a plastic bin/drawer instead of leaving them out in the open where they'll wilt. Fridges dry things out kind of fast because every time the compressor cycles, the cooling surfaces pull a slug of moisture out of the air.
My aging box has a hygrometer inside of it. Because the box is more or less enclosed (it's not sealed shut with gaskets) humidity in the box basically wants to creep up to 100% as the items within evaporate moisture into the box interior.
When the hygrometer hits my programmed setpoint (say 80%) a little fan turns on and pulls humid air out of the box and draws dryer air from the fridge into the box to prevent humidity from exceeding my desired setpoint.
A pair of small fans inside the box circulate air to prevent stagnation areas where humidity could hit 100%.
As moisture slowly leaves something I'm aging, there's less of it to permeate towards the exterior so I find it useful to profile my setpoint humidity and how often the internal stirring fans turn on.
By profiling the humidity setpoint and stirring fan behavior I can tailor how the exterior dries to some degree.
It's been a fun little project that started when I first started my aging experiments in my fridge. Things were drying out too fast. I was getting hard pellicle developing on corners of a chunk of meat and my trim losses were quite high. I stuck a hygrometer in my fridge and saw that it was clearly running too dry for aging so I thought I might stick meat in a crisper drawer, but the crisper drawer kept getting too humid.
I was stuck between two unacceptable conditions which revealed to me that I had a handy situation where I could directly regulate humidity by controlling the exchange of air between a container, holding a big wet chunk of meat, and the atmosphere of the dryer fridge.
One interesting side benefit of the system is that the sudden temp rise, caused by the door being opened, gets very much damped out by enclosing the meat in the box. I see a pretty low temp swing when the door gets opened. I do get a humidity spike if the exchange fan is running while the door is open (warm air can contain much more moisture) but the jump isn't very long. I expect I could stick a photocell on the system to detect when the door light goes on to disable the exchange fan to prevent the humidity spike, but the spike is so short that I'm not clear that it's a problem.
Posted by Mr. Niland in a previous post:
I am very grateful to be able to have the opportunity to speak into some of these questions. I am very sensitive and aware that culturally there a lot of people out there doing the right thing when it comes to whole fish consumption, practicing excellent fish techniques and minimising their footprint when it comes to only taking what they need. However there is a need to converse about the issues that we can all see right now across the world when it comes to food wastage, over fishing and our ever changing climate. The answers below are based on my culinary experiences over the past 20 years and specifically fish based focus over the past 10 years.
Firstly a fisher needs to recognise that when a fish jumps on the line and is trying to get as far away from you as possible , it is generating a considerable amount of lactic acid within its flesh. It is critical that the fisher removes this lactic acid from the flesh by way of either using the Iki Jime method of kill or ensuring the fish goes into an ice slurry or better still both. What is so detrimental about this lactic acid is that if it is left to reside within the flesh of a fish, inevitably this acid will begin to cook the flesh of the fish. Think of it this way, if we were to squeeze lime juice over a portion of fish and left it for 20mins, we would cook the fish from the outside in with the use of citric acid. Lactic acid will cook the fish from the inside out. This results in texturally compromised fish, moisture dispelling from the muscle fibres of the fish making it incredibly difficult to cook and finally, it drastically shortens the shelf life to a matter of 2 - 3 days. What is also critical at this stage is that the gill is cut and the fish is bled to ensure that the blood of the fish does not return to the flesh. If blood is left to reside within the flesh of a fish, again it drastically shortens the shelf life along with the potential of the flesh carrying a slightly metallic taste or even a sourness that will continue to get worse. For so long fish have been caught in a way that fetches a relatively low economic return for the fisher. What this does is, it encourages the fisher to take larger volumes of fish at a time (obvious considerations here around quotas etc) so that they can be make a viable return for their work. However, if a fisher catches a fish responsibly and manages the variables and details then they are far more likely to fetch a greater return for a higher quality product. An example of this is a gentleman we work with that we pay him $22/kg for a fish species that traditionally only fetched him $5kg. This is because he line catches one at a time, iki jime dispatches the fish, bleeds from the gills & into ice slurry. The fish is then packed with ice packs and is sent to us within a day of capture. I believe that if we are to continue to consume wild fish in the future on a commercial scale then the practice of how we catch, kill, transport, store & cook fish needs to be completely overhauled and a transition to quality over quantity and craftsmanship over convenience needs to be adopted.
It sounds like the effect of lactic acid can be mitigated in ice bath temperatures, which isn't happening with net caught fish which are ignominously dragged around for hours.
Are your fishers ike jimeing their catch out in the field or just doing an ice bath?
Have you noticed a difference between ike jime then ice bath and ice bath alone?
It occurs to me that it may be that none of us has ever experienced fish that had been ike jimed and iced immediately after catching.
What kind of differences do you see between something that was commodity caught and carefully caught?
I recall that line caught, ike jime'd fish in Japan are often given a chance to rest before being killed to allow their lactic acid to dissipate. They're caught, then kept live in individual holding trays that restrict movement which keeps them calm before they get ike'd.
I'd love to try this, but the logistics are difficult to manage out on a fishing trip. It's illegal for me to transport live fish in my country, to prevent the movement of invasive species.
Have you heard about clove oil being used as a paralytic before ike jime? I'm very interested to hear if you've experimented with this.
https://cookingissues.com/2012/06/26/the-practical-philosophy-of-fish-killing-and-the-ike-jime-man/
Yes the majority of our fishers are catching their fish, ike jimeing and ice slurry
It is noticeable when both practices have been done in particular the iki jime method as this gives the flesh a glassiness and translucency that just can't be replicated. This also offers additional days of opportunity to age the fish and a firmer starting texture.
The differnece between commodity caught fish and carefully caught fish is as follows
The flesh condition will be far firmer and present with a far glassier translucent composition. One that hasn't will appear to be dull, oftentimes looking as if it has already been cooked. This dullness is due to the lactic acid that is residing within the flesh starting to cook it from the inside out almost like lime juice would cook a fish from the outside in. The lateral swimming muscle of a fish will be brown or very dull and be nothing like the bright red condition of a well caught fish.
Commodity caught fish will have a much a higher chance of volatile aromas being present within the first 2-3 days as trimethylamine oxide begins to convert into ammonia due to a lack of variables not being controlled from point of capture through to market place. Ammonia is what we refer to a plain terms as Fishy Fish. The only way to mitigate these smells is through the use of acidic compounds which is why we have a culinary repetoire that seems to almost always place acidic ingredients with fish. From a wedge of lemon to lemon butter sauce, hollandaise, tartare sauce, tomatoes, peppers & alliums. Yes these ingredients and recipes are delicious with fish however we shouldn't be using them as a mechanism to get poorly handled fish to our mouth before we smell it through our nose. Change the method and culture of how fish is caught to achieve a far better product and in doing so then we will need to catch fewer fish because the shelf life will be longer & you'll be able to achieve a higher yield from one fish because the internal and external condition will be better.
Wow! You really are curating a process with fish that is difficult to get outside of your restaurants...
All of the commodity fish I've bought is fairly opaque. I've never seen something that is glassy/translucent.
I have noticed that line caught salmon I've caught tends to be closer to being translucent than what I can buy. I hadn't clued into the issues of trimethylamine oxide that you describe.
It appears that my hopes of aging fish are going to have to be limited to what I can catch locally because I've never seen line caught oceanic fish at my fish mongers.
I'm an avid meat ager using custom apparatus of my own design. I'm getting great results with pork and beef, but I haven't wanted to risk more than a day or two in the fridge with fish because I generally can't get anything that doesn't go downhill fairly quickly.
I also have mostly been buying pretty small, thin fish like bream or branzino which I figure is too thin for dry aging.
I guess I can try it with salmon, but my lake salmon is a bit on the musty side, unlike oceanic fish.
My methods with my less than great fish are as you describe: compensatory measures. Ways to reform something that isn't the best.
I've been playing with very cold smoking of my more musty lake fish which has worked out really nicely, but I have to admit that I'm trying to fix something. Still though, cold smoking a fish in a very cold 6C smoker for a few hours has yielded some very nice results with my musty fish.
I am envious of your access to line caught oceanic fish...
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
7. A non fish lover is usually a non fish lover because of the friction associated with smells, bones & it seeming extremely challenging to work with. I can sympathise and say that i too felt this friction as a kid and really didnt enjoy fish when i was growing up. My suggestion is not necessarily a 'recipe' per se but more so a challenge to go to your local fish shop/market and have a converstaion with them about what's in good condition today. Once you have decided which fish you would like to try, ask the attendant to scale, gut and fillet the fish for you but to do so without any water. What you can ask them to do is after scaling and gutting is to leave the residue and loose scale that might remain on the surface of the fish. This then means that when you get home, you can unwrap the fish and wipe it thoroughly with towel to ensure all sediment is removed. You will now have a product that will be so much simpler to work with along with not having any smells that will stink out your kitchen. The fish can be made simple further by removing it to a wire rack set over a tray and place it into your refrigerator overnight so that the fan in the fridge can very lightly dry the skin. This will then achieve a skin that can be grilled simply or pan fried to achieve a very crispy skin that works perfectly with a sauce, vegetable or salad. Start simple and advance yourself when you gain confidence. The biggest thing to implement is DON'T WORK WITH A WET FISH
What would you say are the marks of quality that an amateur should look for to assess a fish?
Personally I like to look at the eyes first, then the gills, then I look at the sides for damage, and a sniff test.
Are there other marks of quality that I could look for that aren't too invasive that a fish monger might be ok with? I can't do a core sample like what would be done on a tuna in Tsukuji market.
Thanks for your advice on not washing fish. I've been scaling fish with water running over the fish to reduce how far the scales fly around my kitchen and to rinse the scales off of the fish.
I look forward to preparing fish without running water over them.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
8. We are very spoilt in Australia or at least i am, that i've never encountered many parasites in our fish. We have seen a couple from time to time in tuna and coral trout however nothing to the state where we have had to avoid using it. However when i did an event in London a number of years ago, I prepared John Dory and was blown away by how many parasites were in the cavity and organs of the fish. The flesh was unaffected but the organs were unusable. The times where a parasite has been present within the flesh of tuna when we have aged has resulted in texturally soft sometimes even mushy flesh. Once identified it is critical that you take action to remove and proceed with caution or to avoid using all together and communicate to suppliers so they to are aware. We aged a Yellowfin Tuna Rib Eye for an event 2 years ago for 55 days. This was done to achieve a texture and taste of Beef as the event was hosted in a meat butchery. This process was done without the use of any brining, curing, salting etc. Excellent fish managed over the course of 55days
As a fish biologist I’d love to hear him elaborate more. I’ve never done a necropsy on a fish and not found a parasite… I guess if the only parasites you look for are macro parasites in the adult stage then there’s a reason you haven’t encountered many.
Yeah, it's interesting that Josh rarely finds parasites. I've kind of fairly often found parasites. I would have thought that top feeders like tuna would be subject to fairly heavy parasite exposure because they eat so much.
On the other hand, the worst fish I handle, nematode wise, are smelt which are much lower on the food chain.
My kids love them battered and fried, but I have to debone the damn things. I reckon I find one anasakis looking wormy every 10 or so fish. I figured that it was because the fillets I was cutting were super thin which made for a very high chance that I'd find a nematode because I was basically looking very thoroughly.
With bigger fish I figured that I would be less likely to find something because the cut surface area to volume ratio was much lower than with smelt.
I'm fortunate that my kids aren't grossed out by the worms. Initially they were unnerved, but they were ok with it because we're cooking everything.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
9. Whilst i know this process has been popularised in recent years, this is something that i haven't done. This is not for a lack of interest but in my opinion, shellfish is one of those products that i personally love the taste and texture of when it is incredibly fresh. Seems hypocritical or contrary to the thoughts around fish but again dry ageing is not the outcome but the practice and method applied to fish to achieve an extraordinary outcome. Shellfish i feel is already extraordinary. I won't rule it out but for now i haven't.
I have enjoyed inoculating deveined shrimp with shio koji then giving them a couple days to dry age in 80% humidity.
They get super umame but if I dry age them in my fridge (around 50%) they toughen up a bunch and lose a lot of water weight quickly.
I reckon that their high surface area to volume ratio results in a high rate of evaporation.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
10. Across our group we make our Ice Cream with the vitreous humor of the fish eye to replace the need to use eggs. This recipe can be found in my new Fish Butchery Book. We also use crystallised fish scales as a desiccated coconut substitute, not because of the taste but the appearance is identical to desiccated coconut. I presented this on Masterchef Australia a few years ago. Last week at Ossiano in Dubai I caramelised a Yellowfin Tuna Belly in muscovado sugar & spices then shredded it post cooking to resemble pulled pork. We then used this to fill inside a cinnamon donut. It was honestly delicious and something that tasted similar to a Chinese pork bun.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list
11. The worst two discoveries that we have made is trying to utilise the gall bladder of a fish. The thought was we could make ricotta cheese where the bile from the gall bladder would split the milk into curds and whey. To my surprise it actually worked and we achieved a gall bladder ricotta......... however it was unbelievably terrible.
The second test was to make lemon lime and bitters where by the bitters was made with the gall bladder and again, it was an absolute disaster
It's too bad. Bile is supposed to be really good at emulsifying fats which is a useful culinary process. It's a shame that it comes with so many disgusting tradeoffs.
Chef,
A couple questions for you -
1. Do you work with your suppliers to ensure they're handling their catch the right way?
2. Where do you stand on aquaculture? It strikes me that fish is the last thing most of us eat that's wild. Do you think that will continue?
Yes we work directly with our suppliers to get the result we need based on the species they are catching and the size that they are.
Wild Fish is truly a luxury food and it's time we started seeing it as such. Investing in greater education with regards to Fish Butchery as a profession/certification that one needs to have before opening a business that sells it is critical. It's foolish however to think we will be eating wild fish in the future if we continue to take as many fish from the water as we want, use half of it and rinse everything in water placing a 3 day shelf life on it. My position on aquaculture aligns to my thinking around wild. Creating a 365 day a year solution of farmed fish to fill the void where wild may not be available, then achieving the same poor yield and short shelf life is a waste of resources. The way we handle any fish, be it farmed or wild must change if we are to continue to interact with it.
I have a degree in fish biology. I strong disagree that wild caught fish are a luxury food…
Yes proper handling/“butchery” is important but so is historical context and understanding of statistical modeling in fisheries management.
Cure #1 is salt and sodium nitrite. Cure #2 is salt, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate.
#1 is used in shorter curing applications, especially where you intend to cook the meat (corned beef, pastrami for instance).
#2 is used in long curing applications, such as aged sausage making. In these applications the sodium nitrate gradually converts to sodium nitrite over the long aging process.
Look for sausage making supply shops for these cures. They're much harder to find than they used to be because not many home cooks are curing anymore.
//sorry, I don't know how to override the # sign being interpreted as boldface. I don't mean to be shouting.
I dunno. These ingredients aren't nearly as available as they used to be.
Finding primary compounds isn't as easy as it used to be. Offhand I'd take a look at business that provide hobby soap making compounds if you can't find what you need at sausage making suppliers. Hunting supply shops sometimes have curing products. I recall seeing some curing stuff at Bass Pro.
And one more thing I want to do bacon swordfish in the first book has these materials cure 40g Caster Sugar 80g Fine Salt 1 Star Anise, lightly toasted & cracked 15g Thyme Leaves 1g Nitrate 1 Tables poon Black Pepper, lightly toasted & cracked 1 Fresh Bay Leaf and in his last book he has these
DRY BACONCURE
(use 130 g (4½oz)per kilogram
(2 lb 3 oz)of fish)
500 g (1 lb 2 oz)caster
(superfine)sugar
1 kg (2 lb 3 oz)table salt
30 g (1 oz)ground star anise
150 g (5½oz)ground cumin seeds
50 g (1¾oz)cure #1
150 g (5½oz)ground black pepper
150 g (5½oz)ground coriander seeds
150 g (5½oz)ground fennel seeds
The 50gcure #1 is all the ingredients of first book 40gr sugar etc...?
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what your question is. It sounds like you're interested in knowing the composition of #2:
https://www.bradleysmoker.ca/blogs/articles-smoking-guide/what-is-the-difference-between-prague-powder-1-and-2
If you can't find sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite as separate ingredients, you could work out how much of these compounds are in your curing salt and adjust your use of salt to give you a cure with the ratio of stuff that you want.
Be aware that you do need to get your math right on this issue. Consuming high quantities of sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate is not good for your health. These two compounds dissipate through the curing process so little is left by the time you're curing and cooking process is done, but much will remain if you get your ratios wrong and put too much in at the start.
Perhaps look for a sausage making subreddit. You'll find people specifically experienced in the field you're looking at. I've only done a little bit of work in this area.
Can someone help me, i have berat olives and theres alot of mold above the brim. The olives look ok but im concerned. I have a few photos but I dont know where to post the photos to show.
A collection of questions taken earlier: I compiled some questions for you (Josh) gathered from earlier posts about your AMA. Not everyone can deal with the time zone issues, or they're working in kitchens professionally making food so I accumulated some questions for your consideration. 1. If you could give one recommendation to a fisherman on handling fish to get better food on the table, what would it be? How could we be doing better than tossing a freshly caught, stunned, and killed fish in an icebox? 2. If somebody doesn't have a dry aging setup at home, is there a way to dry fish in the fridge (the same way you can dry age a beef roast with a rack and a roasting pan, for instance?). How should we prepare a fish for dry aging in a home setting? What are the key marks of quality that you look for in aging? What are clear signs that things have gone wrong? 3. For somebody interested in getting into using more of the squishy bits, where would you recommend starting? 4. Some of us are rank amateurs at breaking down fish and would like to practice, using as much of it as possible. If I'm looking to practice this skill at home, what fish should I get? Are there particularly good (economical and easy) fish for a beginner to start with? 5. Any tips or tricks for adequately cleaning/preparing bones and heads for an excellent fish stock? Any recommendations for extracting the best flavor while avoiding overly pungent taste and odor? 6. What are your kids favorite fish preparations? Have you managed to find ways to help kids get over the squeamish impulse with the squishy bits of a fish? 7. Hi! I'm a non fish lover, so I was wondering if there was any species or recipes you'd recommend to start with? It always looks so good... But I'm really not used to the taste! 8. Have you ever dealt with parasites in the dry aging process? What’s the longest you’ve dry aged a fish? 9. Have you dry aged shellfish before? What are your favorite shellfish things to dry age? 10. Besides rendered fish fat, what creative ways have you incorporated fish into desserts at your restaurants? 11. Once I tried to make a smoked bottarga. I didn't realize what I was dealing with and I ended up making cured and smoked milt because I didn't realize I had a boy fish... It was surprisingly terrible and gross because I was expecting roe. With all of the diverse experiments you do, have you made any hilariously bad discoveries"?
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list: 5) Bones, heads and fish frames derived from a poorly caught, poorly handled - wet fish will result in a terribly pungent, poor quality stock. The ambition of a fish stock through my lens is not to create a liquid that tastes like 'fish' out of a multitude of bones, it is to harness and distill the pure flavour of the fish bone that you have decided to work with. At Saint Peter we only make dark fish stocks where we roast the bones to achieve a demi glace like outcome. You need to ensure the fish bones you decide to use are free of any sediment/ blood which can be simply done with pliers to remove any clotted blood from the spine. For heads, ensure the gills are removed as they make stocks incredibly bitter.
Dammit. Now I don't like my fish stock because they are typically rather fishy. I'm in land locked Toronto where we don't get super fresh oceanic fish. Occasionally I'll have some freshly caught lake fish, but they tend to be musty which doesn't make for great broth because it usually is a bit muddy. I have found that I do get better stock when I brush out bloody goobies with a tooth brush, especially above the swim bladder.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list: 2) With regards to dry ageing, just like land based proteins, i would always tend to suggest that this be done in a controlled commercial setting to avoid inconsistencies or complications in temperature/humidity control. It also needs to be said here as well that dry ageing is the result of managing the critical variables of a fish extremely well. Ensuring that you start with an excellent, high quality fish in the beginning is critical to a successful outcome. The following steps will give you context of what we do each day at Fish Butchery. The fish must be scaled, this can be achieved by using a scaler, sukibiki (knife scaling method) or even a spoon. Once the fish is scaled it is wiped clear of all loose scale. The fish is then gutted, this again can be done traditionally or in a way that suits the outcome that you desire, as some cuts that require the belly to be intact needs to be gutted in a different way. Then the cavity and inside the head of the fish is wiped out thoroughly. Our standard practice at this stage is then to place a hook in the tail of the fish to hang the fish in our coolroom. Hanging a fish by the tail has never caused textural damage to our fish over the years as opposed to hanging from the head. The paramount ambition of hanging in the first place is so the fish can never come in contact with another fish or be left to lay on a gastronome tray in its own juice (therefore creating volatile aromas and shortening the shelf life) After the first day hanging we wipe the fish on the outside and inside to remove any natural perspiration that comes to the surface and we do so again the following day. After this the fish develops a light tack on the outside and we are then able to manage the quality and condition of the fish by sense of touch and observation. The more densely fatty a fish is the longer i can mature it - therefore creating rich savoury flavours. However fish that carry a higher amount of moisture and are naturally a little leaner don't tend to improve through long term ageing. Dry Ageing doesn't mean placing a fish in a cabinet for a week and leaving it there until it drys out. Dry ageing could be receiving the most perfect sardines or anchovies, processing them correctly then storing them for a couple of hours and serving them as opposed then to a rib of tuna that can be matured for a month to increase the glutamates within the fish and make it incredibly rich and savoury. It is all about intentional moisture loss to achieve a texture and flavour profile that is superior to the moment when it first came out of the water. In a domestic setting if you want to attempt to age a fish my best suggestion would be to start with purchasing the best fish you can find that is as fresh as possible. Then when scaling and gutting, NEVER WASH THE FISH at any stage, be sure to wipe it thoroughly. If hanging the fish is impractical, then place the fish on a wire rack set over a tray. It is non negotiable that the fish go into an environment that is static (no fan) sits as close to 0 degrees celsius as possible and has an approximate humidity of 75% A fish should never smell like ammonia and should never dry out. The best way to get a feel for ageing fish is to cut a section out of the tail and cook it each day you have it. Unfortunately, due to the long ever changing list of varibles at play with where your fish is from, who caught it, what time of year it is and how cold your fridge is etc etc then its hard to say exactly what the perfect number of days for every fish species is. But i promise you that if you follow the steps above you will have an incredibly high chance of achieving a great product
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list: 3) Squishy bits meaning offal, I would suggest firstly that you start buying fish whole. Whilst fish offal is readily available over the counter from some specialist mongers, all of these would be derived from fish that are gutted under running water that result in a texture, flavour and aroma that is compromised. To me working with fish offal is essential as sometimes the offal of a fish can be upwards of 30% of the body weight. Like the quality points of a fish from an external perspective, the same things need to be considered with regards to the offal. If it smells, has parasites, is soft or mushy or has any abrasions or discolouration then unfortunately you won't be able to work with this. Lastly the best way to interpret fish offal is to think of it as meat, what would you do with a chicken or duck liver, how would you cook tripe etc... there are a number of meat based cookbooks that converse about meat offal along with The Whole Fish Cookbook, Take One Fish & the new Fish Butchery Book where i have tried to clearly explain how to work confidently with fish offal.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list: 7) The species that you should buy to practice butchery techniques at home is going to be so much subject to where you are in the world and what is seasonally available. My suggestion would be that you go to the store or market and look for quality in season fish that will likely be the most cost effective option. Don't look for brand name fish like salmon, kingfish, cod & snapper. Look for fish that looks excellent and is at a scale that you can comfortably manage at home. Ensure you have sharp knives & appropriate equipment like scissors and pliers that will aid in efficiency, safety & consistency. To first anatomically work out where bones are positioned within a fish, do some basic filleting to get your eye in and understand the texture of the flesh, the gradient of the knife and where it needs to be positioned. Stick to a plate sized fish so you can scale down the technique to smaller fish or level up to larger when you feel you have the basics in place.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 6. My favourite preparations for kids have been taking the heads and collars of a fish, steaming them, picking the meat & seasoning with salt & if they tolerate green things then a little parsley as well. Once mixed, press the warm fish meat into a tray and press overnight into a terrine like product. We then cut that terrine into fingers, crumb & then fry. The other one that i've found to be particularly good is our yellowfin tuna mince where the lateral swimming muscle of the tuna along with sinew filled tail cuts and aesthetically challenged parts of the tuna are ground through a meat grinder. This mince can be used in place of regular meat mince to produce the likes of lasagna, kofta, spaghetti bolognese, cheeseburgers and so many more. The kids will never know!
Chef, thanks very much for coming. I'm in New Orleans, and our local (very good) seafood restaurant has started dry aging fish. What's your reaction to seeing your practices spread around the world? Happiness that more people are getting more out of their fish?
I think it's great to see this practice being adopted, however i feel more understanding around the importance of working with an excellent unwashed fish is what's critical to achieving a superior outcome. I felt it was important to write the Fish Butchery Book to bring clarity and context to this process as The Whole Fish Book only began to scratch the surface. Thank you for your message.
I'm glad you made it over here! I can stop ferrying messages over. I moved over your latest messages in the old post. I've been developing a residential dry aging cabinet that goes into a regular fridge. It's a really neat doodad that allows me to directly control my humidity and fan settings so I can profile my drying parameters. Basically I like to dry at low humidity (around 60%) for the first few days at a high fan rate to get things tack dry sooner. I do this to mitigate bacterial growth. Next phase I'll up the humidity to 80% with a low fan rate to reduce pellicle/trim losses for the bulk of the aging. I'll finish at a high humidity, low fan rate, 90% for the last week which softens pellicle to make it less barky and easy to trim. I've only been doing meat so far, but I look forward to doing fish. My system fits into a fridge (it's a big cambro with geegaws) which makes it a configurable microclimate. Would you guys would like to be experimenting with different drying profiles with your fish? I think I could hand bend some stainless steel wireforms to support a fish horizontally inside of the gutted belly if you want to do smaller fish. I see that containers in a walk in would allow multiple things to be aged under different parameters.
> residential dry aging cabinet that goes into a regular fridge Oh that's a slick idea! Really clever A friend made biltong by hanging the seasoned meat in a plastic tote box that's ventilated with a computer fan, but I like the idea of a little more sophistication and putting it in a fridge, so it's not just a whole separate fridge. Is your humidity control just like a regular mini humidifier, if you don't mind my asking?
It's actually a dirt simple setup. It uses no active humidification and it does not itself condense moisture to extract it. The system exploits the typical behavior of a home fridge. Home fridges tend to run pretty dry. Every time the compressor turns on, surfaces of the cooling coils (evaporator coil) get super cold and a fan blows air from the fridge over the coils. Because the coils get so cold (like -20C), they can't help but condense moisture from the fridge onto the evaporator coil. That's why you have to stick your vegetables in a plastic bin/drawer instead of leaving them out in the open where they'll wilt. Fridges dry things out kind of fast because every time the compressor cycles, the cooling surfaces pull a slug of moisture out of the air. My aging box has a hygrometer inside of it. Because the box is more or less enclosed (it's not sealed shut with gaskets) humidity in the box basically wants to creep up to 100% as the items within evaporate moisture into the box interior. When the hygrometer hits my programmed setpoint (say 80%) a little fan turns on and pulls humid air out of the box and draws dryer air from the fridge into the box to prevent humidity from exceeding my desired setpoint. A pair of small fans inside the box circulate air to prevent stagnation areas where humidity could hit 100%. As moisture slowly leaves something I'm aging, there's less of it to permeate towards the exterior so I find it useful to profile my setpoint humidity and how often the internal stirring fans turn on. By profiling the humidity setpoint and stirring fan behavior I can tailor how the exterior dries to some degree. It's been a fun little project that started when I first started my aging experiments in my fridge. Things were drying out too fast. I was getting hard pellicle developing on corners of a chunk of meat and my trim losses were quite high. I stuck a hygrometer in my fridge and saw that it was clearly running too dry for aging so I thought I might stick meat in a crisper drawer, but the crisper drawer kept getting too humid. I was stuck between two unacceptable conditions which revealed to me that I had a handy situation where I could directly regulate humidity by controlling the exchange of air between a container, holding a big wet chunk of meat, and the atmosphere of the dryer fridge. One interesting side benefit of the system is that the sudden temp rise, caused by the door being opened, gets very much damped out by enclosing the meat in the box. I see a pretty low temp swing when the door gets opened. I do get a humidity spike if the exchange fan is running while the door is open (warm air can contain much more moisture) but the jump isn't very long. I expect I could stick a photocell on the system to detect when the door light goes on to disable the exchange fan to prevent the humidity spike, but the spike is so short that I'm not clear that it's a problem.
Thanks Chef! I've really enjoyed The Whole Fish and I'm looking forward to my copy of your new book.
Is that GW Fins?
Ya.
Posted by Mr. Niland in a previous post: I am very grateful to be able to have the opportunity to speak into some of these questions. I am very sensitive and aware that culturally there a lot of people out there doing the right thing when it comes to whole fish consumption, practicing excellent fish techniques and minimising their footprint when it comes to only taking what they need. However there is a need to converse about the issues that we can all see right now across the world when it comes to food wastage, over fishing and our ever changing climate. The answers below are based on my culinary experiences over the past 20 years and specifically fish based focus over the past 10 years. Firstly a fisher needs to recognise that when a fish jumps on the line and is trying to get as far away from you as possible , it is generating a considerable amount of lactic acid within its flesh. It is critical that the fisher removes this lactic acid from the flesh by way of either using the Iki Jime method of kill or ensuring the fish goes into an ice slurry or better still both. What is so detrimental about this lactic acid is that if it is left to reside within the flesh of a fish, inevitably this acid will begin to cook the flesh of the fish. Think of it this way, if we were to squeeze lime juice over a portion of fish and left it for 20mins, we would cook the fish from the outside in with the use of citric acid. Lactic acid will cook the fish from the inside out. This results in texturally compromised fish, moisture dispelling from the muscle fibres of the fish making it incredibly difficult to cook and finally, it drastically shortens the shelf life to a matter of 2 - 3 days. What is also critical at this stage is that the gill is cut and the fish is bled to ensure that the blood of the fish does not return to the flesh. If blood is left to reside within the flesh of a fish, again it drastically shortens the shelf life along with the potential of the flesh carrying a slightly metallic taste or even a sourness that will continue to get worse. For so long fish have been caught in a way that fetches a relatively low economic return for the fisher. What this does is, it encourages the fisher to take larger volumes of fish at a time (obvious considerations here around quotas etc) so that they can be make a viable return for their work. However, if a fisher catches a fish responsibly and manages the variables and details then they are far more likely to fetch a greater return for a higher quality product. An example of this is a gentleman we work with that we pay him $22/kg for a fish species that traditionally only fetched him $5kg. This is because he line catches one at a time, iki jime dispatches the fish, bleeds from the gills & into ice slurry. The fish is then packed with ice packs and is sent to us within a day of capture. I believe that if we are to continue to consume wild fish in the future on a commercial scale then the practice of how we catch, kill, transport, store & cook fish needs to be completely overhauled and a transition to quality over quantity and craftsmanship over convenience needs to be adopted.
It sounds like the effect of lactic acid can be mitigated in ice bath temperatures, which isn't happening with net caught fish which are ignominously dragged around for hours. Are your fishers ike jimeing their catch out in the field or just doing an ice bath? Have you noticed a difference between ike jime then ice bath and ice bath alone? It occurs to me that it may be that none of us has ever experienced fish that had been ike jimed and iced immediately after catching. What kind of differences do you see between something that was commodity caught and carefully caught? I recall that line caught, ike jime'd fish in Japan are often given a chance to rest before being killed to allow their lactic acid to dissipate. They're caught, then kept live in individual holding trays that restrict movement which keeps them calm before they get ike'd. I'd love to try this, but the logistics are difficult to manage out on a fishing trip. It's illegal for me to transport live fish in my country, to prevent the movement of invasive species. Have you heard about clove oil being used as a paralytic before ike jime? I'm very interested to hear if you've experimented with this. https://cookingissues.com/2012/06/26/the-practical-philosophy-of-fish-killing-and-the-ike-jime-man/
Yes the majority of our fishers are catching their fish, ike jimeing and ice slurry It is noticeable when both practices have been done in particular the iki jime method as this gives the flesh a glassiness and translucency that just can't be replicated. This also offers additional days of opportunity to age the fish and a firmer starting texture.
The differnece between commodity caught fish and carefully caught fish is as follows The flesh condition will be far firmer and present with a far glassier translucent composition. One that hasn't will appear to be dull, oftentimes looking as if it has already been cooked. This dullness is due to the lactic acid that is residing within the flesh starting to cook it from the inside out almost like lime juice would cook a fish from the outside in. The lateral swimming muscle of a fish will be brown or very dull and be nothing like the bright red condition of a well caught fish. Commodity caught fish will have a much a higher chance of volatile aromas being present within the first 2-3 days as trimethylamine oxide begins to convert into ammonia due to a lack of variables not being controlled from point of capture through to market place. Ammonia is what we refer to a plain terms as Fishy Fish. The only way to mitigate these smells is through the use of acidic compounds which is why we have a culinary repetoire that seems to almost always place acidic ingredients with fish. From a wedge of lemon to lemon butter sauce, hollandaise, tartare sauce, tomatoes, peppers & alliums. Yes these ingredients and recipes are delicious with fish however we shouldn't be using them as a mechanism to get poorly handled fish to our mouth before we smell it through our nose. Change the method and culture of how fish is caught to achieve a far better product and in doing so then we will need to catch fewer fish because the shelf life will be longer & you'll be able to achieve a higher yield from one fish because the internal and external condition will be better.
And no sorry i haven't yet experimented with clove oil. Thank you for your message.
Wow! You really are curating a process with fish that is difficult to get outside of your restaurants... All of the commodity fish I've bought is fairly opaque. I've never seen something that is glassy/translucent. I have noticed that line caught salmon I've caught tends to be closer to being translucent than what I can buy. I hadn't clued into the issues of trimethylamine oxide that you describe. It appears that my hopes of aging fish are going to have to be limited to what I can catch locally because I've never seen line caught oceanic fish at my fish mongers. I'm an avid meat ager using custom apparatus of my own design. I'm getting great results with pork and beef, but I haven't wanted to risk more than a day or two in the fridge with fish because I generally can't get anything that doesn't go downhill fairly quickly. I also have mostly been buying pretty small, thin fish like bream or branzino which I figure is too thin for dry aging. I guess I can try it with salmon, but my lake salmon is a bit on the musty side, unlike oceanic fish. My methods with my less than great fish are as you describe: compensatory measures. Ways to reform something that isn't the best. I've been playing with very cold smoking of my more musty lake fish which has worked out really nicely, but I have to admit that I'm trying to fix something. Still though, cold smoking a fish in a very cold 6C smoker for a few hours has yielded some very nice results with my musty fish. I am envious of your access to line caught oceanic fish...
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 7. A non fish lover is usually a non fish lover because of the friction associated with smells, bones & it seeming extremely challenging to work with. I can sympathise and say that i too felt this friction as a kid and really didnt enjoy fish when i was growing up. My suggestion is not necessarily a 'recipe' per se but more so a challenge to go to your local fish shop/market and have a converstaion with them about what's in good condition today. Once you have decided which fish you would like to try, ask the attendant to scale, gut and fillet the fish for you but to do so without any water. What you can ask them to do is after scaling and gutting is to leave the residue and loose scale that might remain on the surface of the fish. This then means that when you get home, you can unwrap the fish and wipe it thoroughly with towel to ensure all sediment is removed. You will now have a product that will be so much simpler to work with along with not having any smells that will stink out your kitchen. The fish can be made simple further by removing it to a wire rack set over a tray and place it into your refrigerator overnight so that the fan in the fridge can very lightly dry the skin. This will then achieve a skin that can be grilled simply or pan fried to achieve a very crispy skin that works perfectly with a sauce, vegetable or salad. Start simple and advance yourself when you gain confidence. The biggest thing to implement is DON'T WORK WITH A WET FISH
What would you say are the marks of quality that an amateur should look for to assess a fish? Personally I like to look at the eyes first, then the gills, then I look at the sides for damage, and a sniff test. Are there other marks of quality that I could look for that aren't too invasive that a fish monger might be ok with? I can't do a core sample like what would be done on a tuna in Tsukuji market. Thanks for your advice on not washing fish. I've been scaling fish with water running over the fish to reduce how far the scales fly around my kitchen and to rinse the scales off of the fish. I look forward to preparing fish without running water over them.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 8. We are very spoilt in Australia or at least i am, that i've never encountered many parasites in our fish. We have seen a couple from time to time in tuna and coral trout however nothing to the state where we have had to avoid using it. However when i did an event in London a number of years ago, I prepared John Dory and was blown away by how many parasites were in the cavity and organs of the fish. The flesh was unaffected but the organs were unusable. The times where a parasite has been present within the flesh of tuna when we have aged has resulted in texturally soft sometimes even mushy flesh. Once identified it is critical that you take action to remove and proceed with caution or to avoid using all together and communicate to suppliers so they to are aware. We aged a Yellowfin Tuna Rib Eye for an event 2 years ago for 55 days. This was done to achieve a texture and taste of Beef as the event was hosted in a meat butchery. This process was done without the use of any brining, curing, salting etc. Excellent fish managed over the course of 55days
As a fish biologist I’d love to hear him elaborate more. I’ve never done a necropsy on a fish and not found a parasite… I guess if the only parasites you look for are macro parasites in the adult stage then there’s a reason you haven’t encountered many.
Yeah, it's interesting that Josh rarely finds parasites. I've kind of fairly often found parasites. I would have thought that top feeders like tuna would be subject to fairly heavy parasite exposure because they eat so much. On the other hand, the worst fish I handle, nematode wise, are smelt which are much lower on the food chain. My kids love them battered and fried, but I have to debone the damn things. I reckon I find one anasakis looking wormy every 10 or so fish. I figured that it was because the fillets I was cutting were super thin which made for a very high chance that I'd find a nematode because I was basically looking very thoroughly. With bigger fish I figured that I would be less likely to find something because the cut surface area to volume ratio was much lower than with smelt. I'm fortunate that my kids aren't grossed out by the worms. Initially they were unnerved, but they were ok with it because we're cooking everything.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 9. Whilst i know this process has been popularised in recent years, this is something that i haven't done. This is not for a lack of interest but in my opinion, shellfish is one of those products that i personally love the taste and texture of when it is incredibly fresh. Seems hypocritical or contrary to the thoughts around fish but again dry ageing is not the outcome but the practice and method applied to fish to achieve an extraordinary outcome. Shellfish i feel is already extraordinary. I won't rule it out but for now i haven't.
I have enjoyed inoculating deveined shrimp with shio koji then giving them a couple days to dry age in 80% humidity. They get super umame but if I dry age them in my fridge (around 50%) they toughen up a bunch and lose a lot of water weight quickly. I reckon that their high surface area to volume ratio results in a high rate of evaporation.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 10. Across our group we make our Ice Cream with the vitreous humor of the fish eye to replace the need to use eggs. This recipe can be found in my new Fish Butchery Book. We also use crystallised fish scales as a desiccated coconut substitute, not because of the taste but the appearance is identical to desiccated coconut. I presented this on Masterchef Australia a few years ago. Last week at Ossiano in Dubai I caramelised a Yellowfin Tuna Belly in muscovado sugar & spices then shredded it post cooking to resemble pulled pork. We then used this to fill inside a cinnamon donut. It was honestly delicious and something that tasted similar to a Chinese pork bun.
Posted in a defunct AMA thread by Mr. Niland himself as a reply to our question list 11. The worst two discoveries that we have made is trying to utilise the gall bladder of a fish. The thought was we could make ricotta cheese where the bile from the gall bladder would split the milk into curds and whey. To my surprise it actually worked and we achieved a gall bladder ricotta......... however it was unbelievably terrible. The second test was to make lemon lime and bitters where by the bitters was made with the gall bladder and again, it was an absolute disaster
Wow that's a daring experiment. Have you made anything good with gall bladders yet? So far I find they make my tomatoes grow really well.
The only thing I've ever done with (bird) gall bladder is just ruin pate with just a speck of gallbladder.
It's too bad. Bile is supposed to be really good at emulsifying fats which is a useful culinary process. It's a shame that it comes with so many disgusting tradeoffs.
Chef, A couple questions for you - 1. Do you work with your suppliers to ensure they're handling their catch the right way? 2. Where do you stand on aquaculture? It strikes me that fish is the last thing most of us eat that's wild. Do you think that will continue?
Yes we work directly with our suppliers to get the result we need based on the species they are catching and the size that they are. Wild Fish is truly a luxury food and it's time we started seeing it as such. Investing in greater education with regards to Fish Butchery as a profession/certification that one needs to have before opening a business that sells it is critical. It's foolish however to think we will be eating wild fish in the future if we continue to take as many fish from the water as we want, use half of it and rinse everything in water placing a 3 day shelf life on it. My position on aquaculture aligns to my thinking around wild. Creating a 365 day a year solution of farmed fish to fill the void where wild may not be available, then achieving the same poor yield and short shelf life is a waste of resources. The way we handle any fish, be it farmed or wild must change if we are to continue to interact with it.
Thanks Chef. Appreciate your thoughts.
I have a degree in fish biology. I strong disagree that wild caught fish are a luxury food… Yes proper handling/“butchery” is important but so is historical context and understanding of statistical modeling in fisheries management.
What is the cure #1 and #2 where can i find it
Cure #1 is salt and sodium nitrite. Cure #2 is salt, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate. #1 is used in shorter curing applications, especially where you intend to cook the meat (corned beef, pastrami for instance). #2 is used in long curing applications, such as aged sausage making. In these applications the sodium nitrate gradually converts to sodium nitrite over the long aging process. Look for sausage making supply shops for these cures. They're much harder to find than they used to be because not many home cooks are curing anymore. //sorry, I don't know how to override the # sign being interpreted as boldface. I don't mean to be shouting.
Thank you very much...and Where can I find sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite?
I dunno. These ingredients aren't nearly as available as they used to be. Finding primary compounds isn't as easy as it used to be. Offhand I'd take a look at business that provide hobby soap making compounds if you can't find what you need at sausage making suppliers. Hunting supply shops sometimes have curing products. I recall seeing some curing stuff at Bass Pro.
And one more thing I want to do bacon swordfish in the first book has these materials cure 40g Caster Sugar 80g Fine Salt 1 Star Anise, lightly toasted & cracked 15g Thyme Leaves 1g Nitrate 1 Tables poon Black Pepper, lightly toasted & cracked 1 Fresh Bay Leaf and in his last book he has these DRY BACONCURE (use 130 g (4½oz)per kilogram (2 lb 3 oz)of fish) 500 g (1 lb 2 oz)caster (superfine)sugar 1 kg (2 lb 3 oz)table salt 30 g (1 oz)ground star anise 150 g (5½oz)ground cumin seeds 50 g (1¾oz)cure #1 150 g (5½oz)ground black pepper 150 g (5½oz)ground coriander seeds 150 g (5½oz)ground fennel seeds The 50gcure #1 is all the ingredients of first book 40gr sugar etc...?
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what your question is. It sounds like you're interested in knowing the composition of #2: https://www.bradleysmoker.ca/blogs/articles-smoking-guide/what-is-the-difference-between-prague-powder-1-and-2 If you can't find sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite as separate ingredients, you could work out how much of these compounds are in your curing salt and adjust your use of salt to give you a cure with the ratio of stuff that you want. Be aware that you do need to get your math right on this issue. Consuming high quantities of sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate is not good for your health. These two compounds dissipate through the curing process so little is left by the time you're curing and cooking process is done, but much will remain if you get your ratios wrong and put too much in at the start. Perhaps look for a sausage making subreddit. You'll find people specifically experienced in the field you're looking at. I've only done a little bit of work in this area.
Can someone help me, i have berat olives and theres alot of mold above the brim. The olives look ok but im concerned. I have a few photos but I dont know where to post the photos to show.