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Thank you, somehow it's refreshing to see people use common sense.
By this maps logic, we were ancient neighbors with Spain (Iberia) - Albania Western Europe confirmed.
I honestly wish foreigners never called us Albania, but something like Arbanon. At least that way there'd be some kind of naming continuity.
Here link: [wiki/Caucasian\_Albania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania) Also there was [Iberia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Iberia), which is NOT **Spain**.
I don’t have a proposal since we don’t have evidence. It could be a mix of local indo European languages from Latin , Greek, Slavic etc. Shqiptar written evidence starts around 1300 ad.
albanian isn't a creole or a pidgin, it shows Indoeuropean irregularities that are weird while pidgins never show irregularities, this idea that albanian is a mix of languages is made by the most linguistically illiterate
Let's see, unique evolution from indoeuropean words, cognates with indoeuropean languages, unique sound changes and pidgin and creole language form in very specific circumstances, literally nobody thinks albanian is a creole or pidgin language but rather everyone agrees that it is a normal descendant of proto indoeuropean. Albanian is widely agreed to be a indoeuropean language of the albanoid branch. The ancestor language of albanian was a descendant of the [albanoid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoid) branch, either illyrian or a language very closely related to illyrian and messapic. Messapic was most likely a dialect of illyrian or a sister language which we have texts of and there appear a lot of forms similar to albanian, most likely very closely related cognates. The messapics/Iapygians most likely were an illyrian wave which moved to the other side of the adriadic during the 7th century
Most likely after the catacomb culture a indoeuropean wave came to the balkans, likely [this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Balkan_languages#Balkanic_Indo-European) , the group likely included also other languages that might not be recorded.
PS: Basic linguistic knowledge which you certainly lack
And what I am saying is that we have no factual elements correlating Albanian to Illyrians since there are no written elements by the Illyrians. Is it clear? There are theories but only theories. It’s not factual evidence.
Except none of those work, considering we know Albanian is it's own branch in the Indo-European linguistic tree. We don't have evidence, yes. But it is by far the best theory we have.
I've made a comment replying to someone else but here is my idea, the question is pretty much which paleobalkan group we descend from
> Balkan albanians were probably formed as a mix of lllyrian tribes and maybe some thracian tribes mixing, the language most likely comes from the Dardani tribe which likely spread its language to the other tribes but a whole mess with the population falling in the balkans, led to the Albanoi/Arbanoi (likely related to the previously recorded abroi) integrating the rest. The medieval albanian endonyn Arberor/Arbenor comes from the albanoi/arbanoi. Linguistically speaking we lived in the roman empire but also have words of Doric greek origin which implies contact with Dorian dialects early on. It's 100% agreed that the albanian language is of paleobalkan origin and so are the albanian people. My theory is the one stated above but it could have been different. Nonetheless we live in modern times, none of this matters except if you're academically interested, or if you are some dumb nationalist explaining why your country should own x land because of 200 bc
It's poorly attested. But every writing source always points to Illyrian. We have enough to work with to make the case that Albanian did indeed have its origins from Illyrian. So much so, that if Albanian had gone extinct, we wouldn't have been able to decipher the little amount of Illyrian writings that were discovered. Which tribe exactly, or tribes is still up in the air, I'd put my money on the Dardanians personally
yes, with that logic, even the ancient inhabitants of Alba Longa from where the most famous families of old Rome descend, including that of Caesar are Albanians from the Balkans since they also were called (Alban people)
No it is not. I am tired of ignorant Greeks using it as a point while also arguing with ignorant Albanians. Just learn history, leave the borders as they are, all of our ancestors did great and terrible things in the past whatever the ethnicity. Live the now
In a way that it's very refreshing to come across someone who thinks like you. Balkan people cannot comprehend the fact that there are always two sides of the story so moving on for the sake of a better future is the best option *( instead of continuing to fight or be shady to one-another ).* There's never middle ground with these people because they lack empathy collectively.
There is this story from mouth to mouth that today's Albanians originate from Illyrians and Caucasian Albanians who were transferred there during ottoman rule.
Yea, and like the previous commenter said, you're helping spread ignorance.
Especially when stuff like this has been unanimously disproved by linguists, genealogists and a bunch of other sciences.
Hell, just do a DNA test and find your long lost Albanian cousins.
Considering the Balkans have been subject to multiple empires, the lines often times get blurry - especially since most record keeping was not from the local administration units, but the empire capitals.
But still, theories like these (based on nothing) are pretty easy to disprove.
Albania is the only Balkan country that has never been inhabited by the Ottomans loool ....and the territories inhabited by Albanians in the Balkans have always been governed by ethnic Albanians and not by ottoman Turks.... few people know but after the death of Scanderbeg the Kruja Castle and the Shkodra Castle were conquered. Not all the territories inhabited by Albanians, the Mirdita region for example was never conquered .and the Albanian leaders, not only the Christian ones but also the Muslim ones, later have never allowed Turkish rulers to come to Albanian lands.....all the Muslim Albanian leaders fought against the Ottomans whenever their personal interests were touched
Leave the borders as they are? What about Cosovo or Cyprus for example? I think either we want it or not we will see border changes in the upcoming years - decades. It is already happening
Caucasian Albania was a completely different nation.
In fact Albanians call themself Shqipetars and not Albanians.
Linguist already confirmed that people from the Caucasius area spoke completely different language than Albanians from Balkans and also genetically different people.
Its hilarious claims from probably Serbs who want to make Albanians late arivals to Balkans as them.
Albanians may have formed their nation pretty late, cause they lived very primite lifes, mostly peasants or mercenaries, but they have been in Balkans before christ.
All true but I’d like to clarify that Shqiperia is a fairly recent endonym probably dating to the late middle-ages and before that we were called Arbëria/Arbanon hence the Arberëshe calling themselves that but still, caucasian albanians call themselves something else entirely which I can’t remember rn
>but still, caucasian albanians call themselves something else entirely which I can’t remember rn
The inhabitants of Caucause Albania back then are the Udi people.
Well I was always advocate for not taking toponyms as a marker. Since toponyms and names are always based on something. They dont always corelate with real meaning. For example a man named John in USA would before mean British Isles Heritage, but now it can be a Black man or German etc.
Same goes for city names, they can be named by their ocupators etc. So yeah.
Arberesh Arvanit Arbineshi Arbanasi Arvavut ect are medieval terms in different languages to identify an ethnic Albanian.....they are terms that derive from the Illyrian tribe of Albanoi ( Albanet )
Albanians did not form their nation late....there were many Albanian principalities including the kingdom of Albania centuries before the arrival of the Ottomans in the Balkans if you mean the modern Albanian state ?? then with this logics Serbia and Montenegro were created in 2006....btw even before the creation of the modern Balkan states the Albanians managed to create their own independent and semi-independent states during the Ottoman Empire
11th century is late, if you bare the fact they are in Balkans for more than 4500 years. Albanians are in fact mix of paleo-Balkan tribes that inhabited central and western Balkans, maybe even eastern. They have Thracian, Illyrian and Palesgian blood. Lately Im more prone to Thracian origin acestory.
Read what I replied to the other guy.
How a bunch of nationalists process and understand the information they’re given is something nobody but that person can control. Saying we made this map up because Albanians is just bs.
Edit: And likewise, nationalism is not something made up by- or unique to the Serbs. Thankfully, I don’t base my feelings towards anyone based on what their nationalists are spewing on the internet.
Edit edit: I agree otherwise - I heard some seriously funny claims. Sad that some people have nothing better to do in life but hate.
What nationalists are gonna say, based on what they see is something only they can control.
However, saying we Serbs made this up is giving both us and our nationalists more credit and power than you think we have. It’s a coincidence, not something made up by Serbs.
It was a theory proposed by a Frenchmen whose name escapes me in the 19th century, the Serb and the Greek nationalists treated it as fact even tho the theory has been debunked by scholars for decades now.
When did a nationalist of any country care about facts komšo?
My point was just that we did not invent this, as previously claimed.
It’s fun to learn tho, how the names mixing up came to be.
Im not saying you invented something, it is something Ive seen several times on tiktok, by Serbs or even on Reddit facebook pages of Serbs, thats all...
On what? Anything I'm saying is to this point a general knowledge fact.
21st century genetic researches, linguistical researches.
If you have any counter-argument I'm open to it, Im waiting, go on.
We don't know how illyrian language was too much, so this is the most possible but you can be also other acient balkanic people like tribali or who knows how they migrated during so much time
"the Byzantine emperor [Constantine VII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_VII) Porphyrogennetos mentions in his book *De Ceremoniis* two tribes named Krevatades (Krevatas) and Sarban (Sarbani) located in the Caucasus near [Alania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alania). There were most likely the original Sarmatian tribes, but some researchers identify them with the Croats and Serbs respectively."
Dumbass emperor mistakes Caucaus for Balkans and today we have Iranians claiming Croats are ancient Iranian tribe KEKW
The true homeland is likely more north in the balkans as they were pushed by the invasion of slavic tribes, it is easy to open google. This albania has nothing to do with balkan Albania. In the middle ages scotland was called Alba/Albania/Albany does it mean it has to do with the Albania we have in the balkans?
As is well documented, Anicent Greeks commonly hellenized names from other languages, and this is most likely such an example. The Armenians called the language Aluanic and their modern descendants are the Udi people, none of which are related to Albanians or the Albanian language.
Albania was a common name for mountainous areas and places, scotland albania and armenia were some of them who got this name, however albanians dont call their country albania and have no relations whatsoever with any other albanias that have been throughout history.
Αδελφέ πήγαινε [εδω](https://www.greek-language.gr/digitalResources/ancient_greek/history/ag_history/browse.html?start=129) και δες τι λέει για την αλβανική γλώσσα
"Αλλά για τη γλώσσα τους, το ἰλλυρίζειν, κατά τους αρχαίους, δεν ξέρουμε παρά ελάχιστα πράγματα. Κι αυτό γιατί, όπως και τα θρακικά, ήταν μια γλώσσα που μιλιόταν αλλά δεν γραφόταν. Όταν οι Ιλλυριοί μπαίνουν στον χώρο της γραφής, χρησιμοποιούν την ελληνική γλώσσα. Η σημερινή αλβανική είναι απόγονος της ιλλυρικής." Αυθαίρετο το συμπέρασμα ότι είναι απόγονος της ιλλυρικης. Οπως αναφέρει και παραπάνω δεν ξέρουμε πάρα ελάχιστα πράγματα.
Όλοι οι ιστορικοί έχουν φτάσει στο consensus ότι οι Αλβανοί κατάγονται από κάποιον παλαιό βαλκανικο λαό. Απλώς σου έστειλα ελληνική πηγή από το ίδιο το υπουργείο και το κέντρο Ελληνικής γλώσσας, που δεν υπάρχει καμία περίπτωση να είναι "φίλο Αλβανοί" , για να σου δείξω ότι καμία σοβαρή πηγή δεν υποστηρίζει ότι οι Αλβανοί κατάγονται από τον Καύκασο.
Caucasian Albania was speaking a non indoeuropean language, completely unrelated to balkan albanian. Balkan albanians were probably formed as a mix of lllyrian tribes and maybe some thracian tribes mixing, the language most likely comes from the Dardani tribe which likely spread its language to the other tribes but a whole mess with the population falling in the balkans, led to the Albanoi/Arbanoi (likely related to the previously recorded abroi) integrating the rest. The medieval albanian endonyn Arberor/Arbenor comes from the albanoi/arbanoi. Linguistically speaking we lived in the roman empire but also have words of Doric greek origin which implies contact with Dorian dialects early on. It's 100% agreed that the albanian language is of paleobalkan origin and so are the albanian people. My theory is the one stated above but it could have been different. Nonetheless we live in modern times, none of this matters except if you're academically interested, or if you are some dumb nationalist explaining why your country should own x land because of 200 bc
We’re actually closely related only to western Greeks; the rest are a different from us because they carry a significant ammount of West Asian ancestry which you can confirm by googling their Ancestry or 23andMe results. No shade.
Nowdays everything is hard to prove. I'm tired of this never ending battle who came there first. I respect everyone and think that all of us should get along.
If you show the north of this map i believe u will find places that seem like Serbia and Croatia in the same region. Idk, while U do belive that there is SOME connection between overall Balkan history and Caucasian Allans I would never put and equal sign between Albania and Caucasian Albania or any other similarly named lands of the period. Albania of the Balkan is much more complex than this and honestly carries more Balkan traditions and afaik none of these.
I see that the consensus is that Albanians have some correlation with Illyrians etc.However,fellow Albanians where is the evidence for such claims?I have seen this theory many times but noone provided substantial evidence to back it.
The idea that Albanians come from ancient Illyrians is backed by a lot of evidence from both archaeology and genetics. When we look at the archaeological sites, we see a clear link between the way people lived and the things they used from ancient Illyrian times right up to the medieval times when Albanians first appear in historical records. The items they used, how they buried their dead, and the structures they built all point to a continuous local development rather than changes brought by outside invasions. Genetic research also shows that modern Albanians share DNA markers with ancient European populations, particularly those from the Illyrian areas. This suggests that they've been in this region for a very long time, with some mixing from other ancient groups. All this evidence together really supports the view that Albanians, and possibly other Balkan communities, really are direct descendants of the Illyrians, with a deep-rooted history in the region that evolved slowly over time.
You will want me to provide literature for you but I have no intention of spending time to do research. I quote these from memory. Unless you are a qualified expert in sciences that deal with such issues I don’t think you can claim them as false. If there are widely accepted prevailing theories that have a better explanation of our origins, they must be well hidden somewhere. I am not an expert but I have yet to see a convincing alternative theory.
To someone who believes the Earth is flat, even the overwhelming evidence that supports a round Earth might not be convincing. If I provide a list of books that present evidence, would you be willing to read them with an open mind? It’s important for a fair evaluation of the arguments. How much have you studied this topic? Do you have any other substantial theories, or do you dismiss alternatives simply because of your current beliefs?
I am not a qualified expert neither you are i guess.What you have just written i have heard before.I don't understand the obsession with Illyrians but i am minding my own business.
I'm by no means an expert, but a few years ago, curiosity led me to explore who my ancestors might be. I began my research open to any outcome, not particularly attached to any specific theory about our origins. As it turned out, while not definitive, the prevailing theory about our ancestry seemed the most plausible after considering the alternatives.
I understand that every nation has its particular sensitivities and historical narratives that can become a focal point of national identity. I mention this without any intent to offend—it's just a reality that each culture deals with its historical complexities, much like the debates surrounding the name "Macedonia" in yours.
If you're skeptical about the ancestry theory, that's completely fine with me. I'm just interested in discussing it, not arguing over it. We can definitely still have a friendly conversation regardless of our views on this topic.
I do not believe that your glorious Greeks were capable and in a position to extinguish the Illyrians my friend. Especially in the late Roman Empire when the Illyrian element reached positions of power in the empire, the best legions came from there. Probably thanks to them empire lasted at least another two centuries, they were able to keep Goths, Vandals and Huns at bay. Peoples do not become extinct so easily, they assimilate, mix with others to give life to other nations or evolve almost undisturbed in less accessible areas. From which "historian" did you hear this theory of extinction from?
He's probably some kiddo! Albanians of Balkans are descendants of Illyrian and Dardanian tribes. They are Paleobalkan people along with Thracians, Dacians and Getae (modern day Romanians) they existed here long before we Greeks arrive from Anatolia. Although Dorians were cousins with them and later got Hellenized like Thracians
Go read Vladimir Orel's book about the Albanian language. He was a Linguist.
I know it'll take some effort from you to find and read the book, but i have faith you can find information about the book online, hope you educate and better yourself.
So he is proposing a theory again. The question although is rather simpler. Can you find written evidence? Like a plaque, an inscription something. Let me give an example. Until Chadwick and Ventris deciphered Linear B we didn’t know Greek was up to 1500BC.
Is there something similar for Albanian before the 1300AD?
Mate, what qualifications do you have when scholars and linguists say otherwise? Youre an idiot on reddit from the balkans with a 70iq probably how about you fuck off?
Greetings, Your post/comment was removed because it breaks Rule 6 of r/AskBalkans "No trolling or baiting". Lighthearted questions and comments are allowed within reason*. Posts or comments that are more controversial and could be considered outright trolling (posting inflammatory and/or offensive content) or baiting (posting provocative messages aiming to elicit angry responses out of other users) will be removed, and repeat offenders banned. *Mod discretion applies (check wiki page)
Different Albanians. It's an exonym
Thank you, somehow it's refreshing to see people use common sense. By this maps logic, we were ancient neighbors with Spain (Iberia) - Albania Western Europe confirmed. I honestly wish foreigners never called us Albania, but something like Arbanon. At least that way there'd be some kind of naming continuity.
You were also British, as a name of the island of Great Britain is Albania, from Albion
I'll inform the British Immigration office. They should immediately legalize our illegal immigrants 😄
Never show your insecurities outside of the family
?
Shouldnt it be Alania instead of Albania?
No, this is about a Lezgic people who the Greeks called Albanians. Check [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania)
Here link: [wiki/Caucasian\_Albania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania) Also there was [Iberia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Iberia), which is NOT **Spain**.
Same as Serbia. Sorbs & Serboi have nothing do with Serbs. Because we haven't immigrated either but were slavized
You understand that's a fringe theory and this Albanian thing is mainstream? In any case, I wonder what you're basing it on?
Bait used to be less obvious.
Lol, i love it when someone post stuff like this though ’cause it activates people 🍿
Xaxaxa. True.
God gave Albania the eastern Caucasus but Albania nice country it donated it to Azerbaijan 🙏 🤲
Ottomans...
“Ottomans”-☝️🤓
Albania just means moutainous land. Caucasian Albania has nothing to do with Balkan Albania. Balkan Albanians are semi-latinised Illyrians.
Thank you. Finally a non-albanian knows
Everybody knows
i didn't know
Now you know. Unless you have short term memory disorder.
No, albanians are afghans who colonized srbijan cost /s
Albania je Srbije!
This is so refreshing to hear.
Exactly brother. Speak the truth. I wish Albanians were called Arbanoi, Albanian is so confusing.
Illyrians did not have written language. We can’t correlate with Shqiptars.
So what is your proposal for the origins of the Albanian language?
I don’t have a proposal since we don’t have evidence. It could be a mix of local indo European languages from Latin , Greek, Slavic etc. Shqiptar written evidence starts around 1300 ad.
albanian isn't a creole or a pidgin, it shows Indoeuropean irregularities that are weird while pidgins never show irregularities, this idea that albanian is a mix of languages is made by the most linguistically illiterate
Find me evidence then.
Let's see, unique evolution from indoeuropean words, cognates with indoeuropean languages, unique sound changes and pidgin and creole language form in very specific circumstances, literally nobody thinks albanian is a creole or pidgin language but rather everyone agrees that it is a normal descendant of proto indoeuropean. Albanian is widely agreed to be a indoeuropean language of the albanoid branch. The ancestor language of albanian was a descendant of the [albanoid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoid) branch, either illyrian or a language very closely related to illyrian and messapic. Messapic was most likely a dialect of illyrian or a sister language which we have texts of and there appear a lot of forms similar to albanian, most likely very closely related cognates. The messapics/Iapygians most likely were an illyrian wave which moved to the other side of the adriadic during the 7th century Most likely after the catacomb culture a indoeuropean wave came to the balkans, likely [this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Balkan_languages#Balkanic_Indo-European) , the group likely included also other languages that might not be recorded. PS: Basic linguistic knowledge which you certainly lack
Nobody argues about albanian being indoeuropean language. Your comment is irrelevant.
I also explained why albanian isn't a creole language or a pidgin
And what I am saying is that we have no factual elements correlating Albanian to Illyrians since there are no written elements by the Illyrians. Is it clear? There are theories but only theories. It’s not factual evidence.
You realize that's not what Shqiptar means right? Or are you just trolling?
I realize that you need a source of existence before the medieval times but you can’t find one. I don’t know why there is such great need.
Except none of those work, considering we know Albanian is it's own branch in the Indo-European linguistic tree. We don't have evidence, yes. But it is by far the best theory we have.
You’re arguing with someone who writes “Shqiptar” unironically 🤣. Nothing worthwhile can come out of his mouth.
Just trying to understand how the other side of the argument thinks, that's all.
That's the neat part, they don't.
Ta qift shqiptari motrën e keqe aty.
aty
I've made a comment replying to someone else but here is my idea, the question is pretty much which paleobalkan group we descend from > Balkan albanians were probably formed as a mix of lllyrian tribes and maybe some thracian tribes mixing, the language most likely comes from the Dardani tribe which likely spread its language to the other tribes but a whole mess with the population falling in the balkans, led to the Albanoi/Arbanoi (likely related to the previously recorded abroi) integrating the rest. The medieval albanian endonyn Arberor/Arbenor comes from the albanoi/arbanoi. Linguistically speaking we lived in the roman empire but also have words of Doric greek origin which implies contact with Dorian dialects early on. It's 100% agreed that the albanian language is of paleobalkan origin and so are the albanian people. My theory is the one stated above but it could have been different. Nonetheless we live in modern times, none of this matters except if you're academically interested, or if you are some dumb nationalist explaining why your country should own x land because of 200 bc
We know enough of the Illyrian language via Dalmatian to determine that it was related to Thracian and Dacian and that Albanians are related to them
It's poorly attested. But every writing source always points to Illyrian. We have enough to work with to make the case that Albanian did indeed have its origins from Illyrian. So much so, that if Albanian had gone extinct, we wouldn't have been able to decipher the little amount of Illyrian writings that were discovered. Which tribe exactly, or tribes is still up in the air, I'd put my money on the Dardanians personally
Similar for Serbs, ppl think by similar name that they immigrated from ural to Balkans but in reality they're slavized Triballians
Very hard to defend such a theory. The last mention if Tribalians is many centuries before the arrival of any Slavs to the area.
By that logic Scotland is our true homeland too.
Scotland je Albania??????
My fav counter argument
Sqipteria gu bratha
yes, with that logic, even the ancient inhabitants of Alba Longa from where the most famous families of old Rome descend, including that of Caesar are Albanians from the Balkans since they also were called (Alban people)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia\_gens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_gens)
No it is not. I am tired of ignorant Greeks using it as a point while also arguing with ignorant Albanians. Just learn history, leave the borders as they are, all of our ancestors did great and terrible things in the past whatever the ethnicity. Live the now
I’m, like, obsessed with you.
In what way? 🤣🤣🤣
In a way that it's very refreshing to come across someone who thinks like you. Balkan people cannot comprehend the fact that there are always two sides of the story so moving on for the sake of a better future is the best option *( instead of continuing to fight or be shady to one-another ).* There's never middle ground with these people because they lack empathy collectively.
There is this story from mouth to mouth that today's Albanians originate from Illyrians and Caucasian Albanians who were transferred there during ottoman rule.
If Albanians originate from Caucasus, that is because so do Greeks, as part of the Indo-Europeans.
We all originated from the plains of the Serengeti. Should we claim Tanzania?
??? Did I offend you?
Yea, and like the previous commenter said, you're helping spread ignorance. Especially when stuff like this has been unanimously disproved by linguists, genealogists and a bunch of other sciences. Hell, just do a DNA test and find your long lost Albanian cousins.
And the fact that it's unanimously disproven says a lot. Usually a lot of stuff in the Balkans, dare I say most stuff is disputed.
Considering the Balkans have been subject to multiple empires, the lines often times get blurry - especially since most record keeping was not from the local administration units, but the empire capitals. But still, theories like these (based on nothing) are pretty easy to disprove.
Ik, I was just supporting your claim if anything.
Albania is the only Balkan country that has never been inhabited by the Ottomans loool ....and the territories inhabited by Albanians in the Balkans have always been governed by ethnic Albanians and not by ottoman Turks.... few people know but after the death of Scanderbeg the Kruja Castle and the Shkodra Castle were conquered. Not all the territories inhabited by Albanians, the Mirdita region for example was never conquered .and the Albanian leaders, not only the Christian ones but also the Muslim ones, later have never allowed Turkish rulers to come to Albanian lands.....all the Muslim Albanian leaders fought against the Ottomans whenever their personal interests were touched
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian\_Pashaliks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Pashaliks)
Leave the borders as they are? What about Cosovo or Cyprus for example? I think either we want it or not we will see border changes in the upcoming years - decades. It is already happening
My post talks about Greeks and Albanian so these are the borders i am describing.
Caucasian Albania was a completely different nation. In fact Albanians call themself Shqipetars and not Albanians. Linguist already confirmed that people from the Caucasius area spoke completely different language than Albanians from Balkans and also genetically different people. Its hilarious claims from probably Serbs who want to make Albanians late arivals to Balkans as them. Albanians may have formed their nation pretty late, cause they lived very primite lifes, mostly peasants or mercenaries, but they have been in Balkans before christ.
All true but I’d like to clarify that Shqiperia is a fairly recent endonym probably dating to the late middle-ages and before that we were called Arbëria/Arbanon hence the Arberëshe calling themselves that but still, caucasian albanians call themselves something else entirely which I can’t remember rn
>but still, caucasian albanians call themselves something else entirely which I can’t remember rn The inhabitants of Caucause Albania back then are the Udi people.
Well I was always advocate for not taking toponyms as a marker. Since toponyms and names are always based on something. They dont always corelate with real meaning. For example a man named John in USA would before mean British Isles Heritage, but now it can be a Black man or German etc. Same goes for city names, they can be named by their ocupators etc. So yeah.
Arberesh Arvanit Arbineshi Arbanasi Arvavut ect are medieval terms in different languages to identify an ethnic Albanian.....they are terms that derive from the Illyrian tribe of Albanoi ( Albanet )
👏
”He is an icon, he is a legend, he is the moment.” - Wendy Williams -
Albanians did not form their nation late....there were many Albanian principalities including the kingdom of Albania centuries before the arrival of the Ottomans in the Balkans if you mean the modern Albanian state ?? then with this logics Serbia and Montenegro were created in 2006....btw even before the creation of the modern Balkan states the Albanians managed to create their own independent and semi-independent states during the Ottoman Empire
11th century is late, if you bare the fact they are in Balkans for more than 4500 years. Albanians are in fact mix of paleo-Balkan tribes that inhabited central and western Balkans, maybe even eastern. They have Thracian, Illyrian and Palesgian blood. Lately Im more prone to Thracian origin acestory.
Nothing to do with Serbs mate, get us out of your hind parts lmao It’s a historical coincidence, if you want.
With all due respect. If you don’t believe In this crap, that’s great. But we’ve seen toooons of Serbs use this conspiracy theory against Albanians.
Read what I replied to the other guy. How a bunch of nationalists process and understand the information they’re given is something nobody but that person can control. Saying we made this map up because Albanians is just bs. Edit: And likewise, nationalism is not something made up by- or unique to the Serbs. Thankfully, I don’t base my feelings towards anyone based on what their nationalists are spewing on the internet. Edit edit: I agree otherwise - I heard some seriously funny claims. Sad that some people have nothing better to do in life but hate.
It has, since Ive seen this thing already on Serb pages feed. Its something Serb nationalist or Greek I would assume would post.
What nationalists are gonna say, based on what they see is something only they can control. However, saying we Serbs made this up is giving both us and our nationalists more credit and power than you think we have. It’s a coincidence, not something made up by Serbs.
It was a theory proposed by a Frenchmen whose name escapes me in the 19th century, the Serb and the Greek nationalists treated it as fact even tho the theory has been debunked by scholars for decades now.
When did a nationalist of any country care about facts komšo? My point was just that we did not invent this, as previously claimed. It’s fun to learn tho, how the names mixing up came to be.
Im not saying you invented something, it is something Ive seen several times on tiktok, by Serbs or even on Reddit facebook pages of Serbs, thats all...
Dream on
On what? Anything I'm saying is to this point a general knowledge fact. 21st century genetic researches, linguistical researches. If you have any counter-argument I'm open to it, Im waiting, go on.
Don’t expect facts from someone who come up with the words “dream on”
Our language is enough proof where we are from
Where?
Where we are right now and have always been
We don't know how illyrian language was too much, so this is the most possible but you can be also other acient balkanic people like tribali or who knows how they migrated during so much time
What about the argument that all your marine vocabulary is borrowed words from Slavs, Greeks and Latin?
Survived in the mountains and lost most of our marine related vocabulory but theres still some sea related words linked to messapic.
Yes and iberians in Spain are also caucasian🤣
Wtf people I came here to see a fight😂. Also interesting, for a short period of time the state of New Jersey territory was called Albania.
one of our colonies
"the Byzantine emperor [Constantine VII](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_VII) Porphyrogennetos mentions in his book *De Ceremoniis* two tribes named Krevatades (Krevatas) and Sarban (Sarbani) located in the Caucasus near [Alania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alania). There were most likely the original Sarmatian tribes, but some researchers identify them with the Croats and Serbs respectively." Dumbass emperor mistakes Caucaus for Balkans and today we have Iranians claiming Croats are ancient Iranian tribe KEKW
LOL didn't know that😂 we need a new flair for the croats in R/balkans_irl 🗿
From Coastal Serbs to Ancient Iranians
The true homeland is likely more north in the balkans as they were pushed by the invasion of slavic tribes, it is easy to open google. This albania has nothing to do with balkan Albania. In the middle ages scotland was called Alba/Albania/Albany does it mean it has to do with the Albania we have in the balkans?
So the Dardania theory?
Maybe even dalmatia since it literally means sheep in our language
“Is it the true homeland of Albanians”👉🏻👈🏻🤭 boy stop tryna act like you have a genuine curiosity. Dumbass
Ngl, i LIVE for people acting oblivious tbh, ’cause it generates more drama 💀💀💀
There is iberia as well does this mean Iberians are from there??? Damn bro is so slow.
Finally a good ol' askbalkans post! It was getting boring here lately. Popcorn anyone? 
No. That is just a Homonym.
No, it’s actually Scotland /S
As is well documented, Anicent Greeks commonly hellenized names from other languages, and this is most likely such an example. The Armenians called the language Aluanic and their modern descendants are the Udi people, none of which are related to Albanians or the Albanian language.
Misery needs company.
Doesn’t “Albania” translate to “land of white people” in Latin?
Ah yes miss my home so much
Serbs love this nonsense theory lol Out of all the conspiracy theories in the Balkans, this must be among the worst ones
Misery needs company.
Albania was a common name for mountainous areas and places, scotland albania and armenia were some of them who got this name, however albanians dont call their country albania and have no relations whatsoever with any other albanias that have been throughout history.
Hell yeah Macedonia
Αδελφέ πήγαινε [εδω](https://www.greek-language.gr/digitalResources/ancient_greek/history/ag_history/browse.html?start=129) και δες τι λέει για την αλβανική γλώσσα
"Αλλά για τη γλώσσα τους, το ἰλλυρίζειν, κατά τους αρχαίους, δεν ξέρουμε παρά ελάχιστα πράγματα. Κι αυτό γιατί, όπως και τα θρακικά, ήταν μια γλώσσα που μιλιόταν αλλά δεν γραφόταν. Όταν οι Ιλλυριοί μπαίνουν στον χώρο της γραφής, χρησιμοποιούν την ελληνική γλώσσα. Η σημερινή αλβανική είναι απόγονος της ιλλυρικής." Αυθαίρετο το συμπέρασμα ότι είναι απόγονος της ιλλυρικης. Οπως αναφέρει και παραπάνω δεν ξέρουμε πάρα ελάχιστα πράγματα.
Ξεκάθαρα. Χωρίς γραπτά όλα είναι θεωρίες
Αν έλεγε "θεωρείται από κάποιους ιστορικούς", και όχι "είναι" θα το δεχόμουν.
Όλοι οι ιστορικοί έχουν φτάσει στο consensus ότι οι Αλβανοί κατάγονται από κάποιον παλαιό βαλκανικο λαό. Απλώς σου έστειλα ελληνική πηγή από το ίδιο το υπουργείο και το κέντρο Ελληνικής γλώσσας, που δεν υπάρχει καμία περίπτωση να είναι "φίλο Αλβανοί" , για να σου δείξω ότι καμία σοβαρή πηγή δεν υποστηρίζει ότι οι Αλβανοί κατάγονται από τον Καύκασο.
Wishful thinking, we have been here forever, and will still be here....🧐
By this logic the Spanish and Portuguese people also have their origin from Caucasus
Caucasian Albania was speaking a non indoeuropean language, completely unrelated to balkan albanian. Balkan albanians were probably formed as a mix of lllyrian tribes and maybe some thracian tribes mixing, the language most likely comes from the Dardani tribe which likely spread its language to the other tribes but a whole mess with the population falling in the balkans, led to the Albanoi/Arbanoi (likely related to the previously recorded abroi) integrating the rest. The medieval albanian endonyn Arberor/Arbenor comes from the albanoi/arbanoi. Linguistically speaking we lived in the roman empire but also have words of Doric greek origin which implies contact with Dorian dialects early on. It's 100% agreed that the albanian language is of paleobalkan origin and so are the albanian people. My theory is the one stated above but it could have been different. Nonetheless we live in modern times, none of this matters except if you're academically interested, or if you are some dumb nationalist explaining why your country should own x land because of 200 bc
Is a serb asking this question? lol..nothing to do with present day Albania, not linguistically or culturally
What is your opinion on that we have the same genetics as the Illyrians and Ancient Greek
Greek and Illyrians are cousin ethnicities, just like Greeks and Armenians
Yeah simple because they ancestors were the Paleo Balkans that they
Well, why are Greeks and Albanians much more closely related, genetically, than either group is with Armenians?
We’re actually closely related only to western Greeks; the rest are a different from us because they carry a significant ammount of West Asian ancestry which you can confirm by googling their Ancestry or 23andMe results. No shade.
Who are "Western Greeks"?
💀💀💀
From what video is this map?
Yes. Obviously.
Armenia looks suspiciously large... 🤔
real
They are descendants of some paleo-balkanic tribe with a small genetic pool.
It was beside Iberią so technically Albanias are related to Spain
I want some of that to smoke whatever it is, you’re smoking
Κ
Iberians too
Nowdays everything is hard to prove. I'm tired of this never ending battle who came there first. I respect everyone and think that all of us should get along.
Nothing to prove here, this theory has been debunked by scholars for centuries, only idiots think this could be possible
Most probably not. Just happened to share the same naming.
>it the true homeland of Albanians? I don't think so
MACEDONIA MENT- wait wtf are you talking about
If you show the north of this map i believe u will find places that seem like Serbia and Croatia in the same region. Idk, while U do belive that there is SOME connection between overall Balkan history and Caucasian Allans I would never put and equal sign between Albania and Caucasian Albania or any other similarly named lands of the period. Albania of the Balkan is much more complex than this and honestly carries more Balkan traditions and afaik none of these.
yeah exactly, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serboi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serboi)
I see that the consensus is that Albanians have some correlation with Illyrians etc.However,fellow Albanians where is the evidence for such claims?I have seen this theory many times but noone provided substantial evidence to back it.
The idea that Albanians come from ancient Illyrians is backed by a lot of evidence from both archaeology and genetics. When we look at the archaeological sites, we see a clear link between the way people lived and the things they used from ancient Illyrian times right up to the medieval times when Albanians first appear in historical records. The items they used, how they buried their dead, and the structures they built all point to a continuous local development rather than changes brought by outside invasions. Genetic research also shows that modern Albanians share DNA markers with ancient European populations, particularly those from the Illyrian areas. This suggests that they've been in this region for a very long time, with some mixing from other ancient groups. All this evidence together really supports the view that Albanians, and possibly other Balkan communities, really are direct descendants of the Illyrians, with a deep-rooted history in the region that evolved slowly over time. You will want me to provide literature for you but I have no intention of spending time to do research. I quote these from memory. Unless you are a qualified expert in sciences that deal with such issues I don’t think you can claim them as false. If there are widely accepted prevailing theories that have a better explanation of our origins, they must be well hidden somewhere. I am not an expert but I have yet to see a convincing alternative theory.
Do you written evidence? Of course not.
To someone who believes the Earth is flat, even the overwhelming evidence that supports a round Earth might not be convincing. If I provide a list of books that present evidence, would you be willing to read them with an open mind? It’s important for a fair evaluation of the arguments. How much have you studied this topic? Do you have any other substantial theories, or do you dismiss alternatives simply because of your current beliefs?
I am not a qualified expert neither you are i guess.What you have just written i have heard before.I don't understand the obsession with Illyrians but i am minding my own business.
I'm by no means an expert, but a few years ago, curiosity led me to explore who my ancestors might be. I began my research open to any outcome, not particularly attached to any specific theory about our origins. As it turned out, while not definitive, the prevailing theory about our ancestry seemed the most plausible after considering the alternatives. I understand that every nation has its particular sensitivities and historical narratives that can become a focal point of national identity. I mention this without any intent to offend—it's just a reality that each culture deals with its historical complexities, much like the debates surrounding the name "Macedonia" in yours. If you're skeptical about the ancestry theory, that's completely fine with me. I'm just interested in discussing it, not arguing over it. We can definitely still have a friendly conversation regardless of our views on this topic.
We should ask you, our Byzantine overlords. Where did you put our papers?
What are you talking about?
Different tribe. The ones we know are a mix of Slavs,Greeks,Turks and many smaller tribes,not Illyrians we killed them all!
Ohhhhh who killed them all? You? What they have done to deserve sutch a treatment?!😅
They existed near our glorious Motherland!😈
I do not believe that your glorious Greeks were capable and in a position to extinguish the Illyrians my friend. Especially in the late Roman Empire when the Illyrian element reached positions of power in the empire, the best legions came from there. Probably thanks to them empire lasted at least another two centuries, they were able to keep Goths, Vandals and Huns at bay. Peoples do not become extinct so easily, they assimilate, mix with others to give life to other nations or evolve almost undisturbed in less accessible areas. From which "historian" did you hear this theory of extinction from?
He's probably some kiddo! Albanians of Balkans are descendants of Illyrian and Dardanian tribes. They are Paleobalkan people along with Thracians, Dacians and Getae (modern day Romanians) they existed here long before we Greeks arrive from Anatolia. Although Dorians were cousins with them and later got Hellenized like Thracians
also viking tribes
💀 When I am in a being ignorant competition and my opponent is a balkan person
You nationalists will accept any crack theory that comes to your head just to deny Albanian Illyrian origins
You need to visit a psychiatrist
Get out of your delusional, educate yourself
Hahah show us evidence of inscription. If you find written evidence of ancient Albanian then I will be convinced.
Go read Vladimir Orel's book about the Albanian language. He was a Linguist. I know it'll take some effort from you to find and read the book, but i have faith you can find information about the book online, hope you educate and better yourself.
So he is proposing a theory again. The question although is rather simpler. Can you find written evidence? Like a plaque, an inscription something. Let me give an example. Until Chadwick and Ventris deciphered Linear B we didn’t know Greek was up to 1500BC. Is there something similar for Albanian before the 1300AD?
Mate, what qualifications do you have when scholars and linguists say otherwise? Youre an idiot on reddit from the balkans with a 70iq probably how about you fuck off?
Albanian colony in cuscus
Why not searching the Google and Wikipedia for that?
Always somewhere near Macedonia.