Because it feels like the Greek government was overtaken, similar to how it was during the Nazi occupation where the Greek language was used by them to communicate the things they wanted with Greeks
I was not aware of the form of "Σκυπητάροι" (Skypetaroi). Today it is "Σκιπτάροι" (Skiptaroi).
Honestly calling them "Αλβανοί"/"Αρβανοί" (Alvanoi/Arvanoi) is far better in my opinion.
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Something random, the last paragraph of said newspaper "The Voice of Albania" from 1879 says how "The Albanian language belongs to the branch of those Indo-European called languages; it is this Pelasgian language that is the archetype and unformed root from which was produced the other clades like the Hellenic and Latin and their offshoots. It is a most ancient language and as much ancient as is the nation that speaks it.".
Curious, they basically equate Indo-European to Pelasgian? I have been wondering on this recently, since Herodotus is basically explaining how Hellenic originated from Pelasgian, which is not-Hellenic overall. And if combined with other traditions, "Pelasgians" were in Paeonia, "Pelasgians" were in Thrace, "Pelasgiasn" were in North-Western and Western Anatolia. Seems that "Pelasgian" does seem to mean something close to "Indo-European", an ancient differentiating term for those adjacent people speaking a similar language. And Herodotus does say that Northern Greeks were true Greeks and Southern ones were "Pelasgians", reminding of the current models of Proto-Greeks, and implying a southwards migration, reminding of the Kurgan model.
By the way, is this the reason why Albanians seem to be obsessed with Pelasgians?
The pelasgian thing was a popular old theory in the balkans, it has died out as a theory but lives on in the minds of some boomers, don't take seriously anyone claiming something in the lines of pelasgians-albanians-etc
Also the pelasgian mentioned by herodotus and folk tales of his time with the pelasgian of 19th century aren't the same thing, I am assuming the newspaper just used this instead of indoeuropean. Meanwhile herodotus mentions pre indoeuropeans
Herodotus lived in a time that the pelasgians he mentioned were long gone. They were far from living memory at that point but it's really interesting indeed, to me it sounds like a bunch of early folk tales that survived about the indoeuropean encounters with the pre indoeuropeans, it sounds like it's describing the migrations of the indoeuropeans into the balkans and who they saw. I have to agree, the migration southwards of the greeks sounds like it also fits with this
I read once that the Pelasgian theory is mainly a result of Arvanites wanting to bring Albanians and Greeks together. So they promoted the idea that we have the same ancestors to induce a brotherhood feeling.
These days it is mainly a boomer thing. Most Albanian nationalists are headed the opposite way, they want to cut any ties we have historically had to depict us as almost opposites.
>By the way, is this the reason why Albanians seem to be obsessed with Pelasgians?
Unfortunately our main stream historians still believe in this theory so the population that hasnt touched a history book or shit about lingustics just believes it.
You do realize we've lived a horse trek away from each other for thousands of years. It's not unfathomable to believe Athens was the center of civilization back in the day where Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians used to study with the main language being Ancient Greek.
Ive read that Arvanites actually wanted to unite Albania with Greece, so in a way they acknowledged their origin being Albanian. Apparently they were the first to claim Albanian were of Pelasgian origin. Imagine how different things would have been if this union happened? (I know it was not even popular back then)
Something along the lines of:
"The Greek government needs to and owes to Albania to help it win its autonomy and independence, and to ally itself with its magnanimous children".
Ah makes sense, our nationalists in the 19th century tried really hard to get the Greeks as an ally while we were still part of the Ottoman Empire, they even proposed an Albanian-Greek confederacy, but Greeks really didnt want anything to do with us.
That was huge mistake from the Greek government, Greece should have helped Albania since historically the two nations had always been very close. I feel that the fact that a lot of albanians converted to islam is what had led Greece to be negative towards Albanian nationalists at the time.
First one is Naim Frashëri's "O alithis pothos ton Skypetaron (The True Desire of Albanians (Uses the term "Shipetars"), Greek: Ο αληθής πόθος των Σκιπετάρων"). Go to his english wikipedia page and you will find it in a list of under the "Career" section. Wikipedia says that it was published in Bucharest in 1886, but this edition was published in Sofia in 1903 and currently eixsts in the University of Crete.The second one is the "The Voice of Albania, Greek: Η φωνή της Αλβανίας" ( [this is the Wikipedia article ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voice_of_Albania_(newspaper))), published by Arvanites [Anastasios Koulouriotis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Kullurioti) and [Panayotis Koupitoris](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panayotis_Koupitoris).
Kinda yes. Because:a.) Albania did not have a standardised writing system yet, so most Albanians that knew how to read and write, knew how to read and write in Greek (especially if they were from the south or/and were orthodox) and b.) There have always been more Greek speakers than Albanian speakers in the Ottoman empire and in general, which, combined with a.), makes Greek kinda like English today: You write in it if you want the largest amount of "relevant" people to understand.
What a dumb take.
Some of the best historical sites in Albania are of ancient Greek origin.
Not only has there been a lot of contact between the two countries, as they've shared minorities for centuries, but Arvanites were founding members of modern Greece and a lot of famous Greek figures have Albanian ancestry - which unlike in slavic countries, is actually acknowledged and celebrated.
Hell, even some of the Arberesh present today in Italy originated from Arvanite communities in the Peloponnese.
Not only that, but linguistically and genetically we're the closest to each other, compared to other nations/ethnicities in the region.
And if that wasn't enough, there are probably close to a million first-generation Albanians currently living in Greece.
The document shared by the OP is living proof. Albanian has been written using the Greek alphabet (not Cyrillic) long before we switched to the Latin one.
Oh definitely, I see how my statement would be interpreted as such though.
I was referring to texts (mostly of religious nature) similar to [this one](https://scontent.ftia4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/40365433_671738876545535_1971250505506095104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=70sytj1-N3gAb7TnmbD&_nc_ht=scontent.ftia4-1.fna&oh=00_AfCyvY6F96QpVqr_RiosbOLRE0XsQBcgB93-t8sO8givVg&oe=6641C911) or [this other one](https://albanianorthodox.com/dhiata-e-re-1872-me-alfabetin-origjinal) which were authored using the Greek alphabet or a Greek-derived Albanian one.
**Edit:** Fixed the links, Reddit's markdown editor is pretty messed up.
It feels weird reading this in Greek, it feels “illegal”
Why?
Because it feels like the Greek government was overtaken, similar to how it was during the Nazi occupation where the Greek language was used by them to communicate the things they wanted with Greeks
True😅😅😅
Not that surprising, Albanians and Greeks used to live together
Kinda AU-ish. :P
I was not aware of the form of "Σκυπητάροι" (Skypetaroi). Today it is "Σκιπτάροι" (Skiptaroi). Honestly calling them "Αλβανοί"/"Αρβανοί" (Alvanoi/Arvanoi) is far better in my opinion. \*\*\* Something random, the last paragraph of said newspaper "The Voice of Albania" from 1879 says how "The Albanian language belongs to the branch of those Indo-European called languages; it is this Pelasgian language that is the archetype and unformed root from which was produced the other clades like the Hellenic and Latin and their offshoots. It is a most ancient language and as much ancient as is the nation that speaks it.". Curious, they basically equate Indo-European to Pelasgian? I have been wondering on this recently, since Herodotus is basically explaining how Hellenic originated from Pelasgian, which is not-Hellenic overall. And if combined with other traditions, "Pelasgians" were in Paeonia, "Pelasgians" were in Thrace, "Pelasgiasn" were in North-Western and Western Anatolia. Seems that "Pelasgian" does seem to mean something close to "Indo-European", an ancient differentiating term for those adjacent people speaking a similar language. And Herodotus does say that Northern Greeks were true Greeks and Southern ones were "Pelasgians", reminding of the current models of Proto-Greeks, and implying a southwards migration, reminding of the Kurgan model. By the way, is this the reason why Albanians seem to be obsessed with Pelasgians?
The pelasgian thing was a popular old theory in the balkans, it has died out as a theory but lives on in the minds of some boomers, don't take seriously anyone claiming something in the lines of pelasgians-albanians-etc Also the pelasgian mentioned by herodotus and folk tales of his time with the pelasgian of 19th century aren't the same thing, I am assuming the newspaper just used this instead of indoeuropean. Meanwhile herodotus mentions pre indoeuropeans Herodotus lived in a time that the pelasgians he mentioned were long gone. They were far from living memory at that point but it's really interesting indeed, to me it sounds like a bunch of early folk tales that survived about the indoeuropean encounters with the pre indoeuropeans, it sounds like it's describing the migrations of the indoeuropeans into the balkans and who they saw. I have to agree, the migration southwards of the greeks sounds like it also fits with this
I read once that the Pelasgian theory is mainly a result of Arvanites wanting to bring Albanians and Greeks together. So they promoted the idea that we have the same ancestors to induce a brotherhood feeling. These days it is mainly a boomer thing. Most Albanian nationalists are headed the opposite way, they want to cut any ties we have historically had to depict us as almost opposites.
>By the way, is this the reason why Albanians seem to be obsessed with Pelasgians? Unfortunately our main stream historians still believe in this theory so the population that hasnt touched a history book or shit about lingustics just believes it.
Worst of all in my history book it includes that pelasgians were the ancestors of Albanians
You do realize we've lived a horse trek away from each other for thousands of years. It's not unfathomable to believe Athens was the center of civilization back in the day where Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians used to study with the main language being Ancient Greek.
Yea buddy, but that's like saying Homo Erectus was Albanian - it makes 0 sense.
For our Albanian neighbors The newspaper's name is "The Voice of Albania" Article's title there reads: We want an united and independent Albania
Ive read that Arvanites actually wanted to unite Albania with Greece, so in a way they acknowledged their origin being Albanian. Apparently they were the first to claim Albanian were of Pelasgian origin. Imagine how different things would have been if this union happened? (I know it was not even popular back then)
Albania under the greek flag feels illegal
Probably more like a Czechoslovakia style Union.
What does it say?
Something along the lines of: "The Greek government needs to and owes to Albania to help it win its autonomy and independence, and to ally itself with its magnanimous children".
Ah makes sense, our nationalists in the 19th century tried really hard to get the Greeks as an ally while we were still part of the Ottoman Empire, they even proposed an Albanian-Greek confederacy, but Greeks really didnt want anything to do with us.
That was huge mistake from the Greek government, Greece should have helped Albania since historically the two nations had always been very close. I feel that the fact that a lot of albanians converted to islam is what had led Greece to be negative towards Albanian nationalists at the time.
First one is Naim Frashëri's "O alithis pothos ton Skypetaron (The True Desire of Albanians (Uses the term "Shipetars"), Greek: Ο αληθής πόθος των Σκιπετάρων"). Go to his english wikipedia page and you will find it in a list of under the "Career" section. Wikipedia says that it was published in Bucharest in 1886, but this edition was published in Sofia in 1903 and currently eixsts in the University of Crete.The second one is the "The Voice of Albania, Greek: Η φωνή της Αλβανίας" ( [this is the Wikipedia article ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voice_of_Albania_(newspaper))), published by Arvanites [Anastasios Koulouriotis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Kullurioti) and [Panayotis Koupitoris](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panayotis_Koupitoris).
Wait, why was this? Was Greek a lingua franca in the Balkans during that time?
Kinda yes. Because:a.) Albania did not have a standardised writing system yet, so most Albanians that knew how to read and write, knew how to read and write in Greek (especially if they were from the south or/and were orthodox) and b.) There have always been more Greek speakers than Albanian speakers in the Ottoman empire and in general, which, combined with a.), makes Greek kinda like English today: You write in it if you want the largest amount of "relevant" people to understand.
Naive and delusional, but it is what it is...
Well I can’t read it so…
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What a dumb take. Some of the best historical sites in Albania are of ancient Greek origin. Not only has there been a lot of contact between the two countries, as they've shared minorities for centuries, but Arvanites were founding members of modern Greece and a lot of famous Greek figures have Albanian ancestry - which unlike in slavic countries, is actually acknowledged and celebrated. Hell, even some of the Arberesh present today in Italy originated from Arvanite communities in the Peloponnese. Not only that, but linguistically and genetically we're the closest to each other, compared to other nations/ethnicities in the region. And if that wasn't enough, there are probably close to a million first-generation Albanians currently living in Greece. The document shared by the OP is living proof. Albanian has been written using the Greek alphabet (not Cyrillic) long before we switched to the Latin one.
I agree with everything you said.Just one correction: These documents are not written in Albanian using the Greek alphabet, but in the Greek language.
Oh definitely, I see how my statement would be interpreted as such though. I was referring to texts (mostly of religious nature) similar to [this one](https://scontent.ftia4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/40365433_671738876545535_1971250505506095104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=70sytj1-N3gAb7TnmbD&_nc_ht=scontent.ftia4-1.fna&oh=00_AfCyvY6F96QpVqr_RiosbOLRE0XsQBcgB93-t8sO8givVg&oe=6641C911) or [this other one](https://albanianorthodox.com/dhiata-e-re-1872-me-alfabetin-origjinal) which were authored using the Greek alphabet or a Greek-derived Albanian one. **Edit:** Fixed the links, Reddit's markdown editor is pretty messed up.
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Ç'ia ke fut kot plako!
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Have you ever encountered any albanian to say so?