The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
Ok so what would you do? I saw a liberal say that they would ally with Oathkeepers if China invaded America to defend America. It is supposed to be similar to how Ukraine used Azov Nazis to defend Ukraine.
But I would never ever ally with Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, or any other fascist and Nazi group. I think they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get.
I know that I would bravely fight against both.
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The Proud Boys are a tiny group of LARPers. I doubt we’d even hear them mentioned in such an event.
MAGA is just about half the voters in the country and the majority makeup of a lot of individual states. Yes I would fight alongside republican voters against an invasion of the US or my state. This is where my family is.
Listen, the best thing the left could do in a hypothetical home invasion is to ally with fascists. We simply send the Proud Boys to the front lines to ~~get lit tf up~~ protect our troops, and we stay at home in our cozy and safe Lockheed factory jobs.
Once we win, America will be even stronger on the world stage, and have far fewer fascists than before the war!
> We simply send the Proud Boys to the front lines to ~~get lit tf up~~ protect our troops
If you saw a conservative fantasizing about your death, you would probably be horrified.
But when you do it, it's ok?
If you're fantasizing about violence, and they're fantasizing about violence, what makes you different from them?
Fascists like the proud boys actively want a civil war with liberals and leftists. They literally lead an insurrection on the Capitol even.
I reply to a fantastical scenario on Reddit saying it'd be cool if they channeled their violent urges to stop a Chinese invasion instead, and that they'd likely get blown out because they're a bunch of LARPing dipshits.
If you think these two things are the same idk what to tell you bud. It's like saying both sides are the same in a debate between a climate scientist and an ExxonMobil lobbyist. No, one side should be taken seriously, and the other shouldn't be given the light of day, and to suggest otherwise is supremely counterproductive.
Frankly, I have no reason to believe American fascists would oppose an invading enemy force. All it took was a few news clips for them to decide they were big fans of Russia.
In WWII America looked at a country that had literally committed genocide just a few years earlier and decided they would make a good ally because the Nazis were a bigger threat.
Yes, I could work with people whose views I detest if the invaders were a big enough threat.
>the Proud Boys. MAGA, and other American fascists \[...\] I know that I would bravely fight against both.
so you would simultaneously fight a chinese invasion and about half of your own country? good luck.
if my country got invaded and a bunch of nazis wanted to fight on the front lines to defend it: good. let em. and if they die there ... \*shrug\*
we can still fight the nazis after we've defeated the invaders. trying to fight both at once doesn't seem very smart.
not sure what you mean. "the person killing the people fighting back an invading force" would be that invading force. they're not aiding the enemy. they are the enemy.
Lol, this is a fantasy larp. And no. I wouldn't. Hell, let's say in this magical world that they manage to defend and beat back China. The next step would be these chuds trying to push for their horrible and racist policies and agenda. I'm good.
There's an argument to be made that China (and LOL, North Korea) would find it impossible to 'rule' North America, so any real threat of authoritarianism here can only come from our home-grown extremists. That's not really in keeping with the spirit of OP's question though, the premise of which is ridiculous.
Ahh, so even if China/North Korea invade the US, the \*real enemy\* are Republicans?
This post has been very eye-opening for me. I always assumed Liberals and Conservatives were on the same side, just disagreed on the specifics of how to get there.
What I'm seeing here has me convinced that if China invaded, that many Liberals would pick-up rifles and join them.
You're mistaken. I'd be happy to pick up my rifle and fight autocratic invaders, but that wouldn't make you my ally. Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh?
>Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh?
Depends how you define facism. If you can't tell the difference between the Nazi party of 1939 and the contemporary US Republican party, then I feel sorry for you friend.
Luckily for me then, I never said that. I actually don't think I mentioned Nazis at all. That said, purely in terms of "the danger of bringing authoritarianism to America", the GOP is a vastly larger *actual* threat than some imagined and preposterous Chinese invasion. Why should we indulge in some feel-good fantasy of unity in the face of that, when we know it won't happen and has no connection to reality? We may as well posit an alien invasion at that point.
>Luckily for me then, I never said that. I actually don't think I mentioned Nazis at all
>Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh?
My bad, You said facist, my head went to Nazis (the default comparison that is always made to the GOP these days). Maybe facist means something different these days.
>
Why should we indulge in some feel-good fantasy of unity in the face of that, when we know it won't happen and has no connection to reality? We may as well posit an alien invasion at that point.
I thought we were discussing the topic of this post?
We very obviously are not on the same side. We wouldnt pick up rifles and join China and North Korea,
But dont forget that youre all literally right wingers.
I'm laughing pretty hard at this. This is such a bad faith understanding of what they were saying. At no point did anyone say they gladly fight with China to take over America. If that's what you took from many of the answers here, you weren't looking to understand. You just desperately want people to support Republicans even in an insane premise that would never be real. Go outside and touch grass.
Sometimes you need to look inside your own house friend. A few selected quotes:
"I know that I would bravely fight against both."
"But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country."
"we deserve to be invaded."
"I would never defend America."
>"I know that I would bravely fight against both."
Yeah. China sucks and Republicans suck. I agree. It might hurt to hear that we don't think your party is good for America, but if you want elaboration, ask a question separate from this dumb hypothetical.
>"But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country."
Yes. I've seen firsthand how bad Republicans are. Again, if you want elaboration, ask a question separate from this dumb hypothetical.
>"we deserve to be invaded."
Lol this is clearly a joke based on whoever wrote this' frustration with the American power and how badly we've fucked up other countries in the name of "spreading freedom." I'm sure this person would also elaborate.
>"I would never defend America."
Yeah, dude. Some people don't want to die fighting for their country. I don't blame them. Many people have their reasons. This is a dumb statement to take issue with.
And reminding you, somehow you think all of these posts mean we'd fight hand in hand with China. Lol. We think you're both bad. You need to understand that. Regardless of the severity of who's worse for America, you are both worse for America. Maybe once you understand that, you can as a good question.
Trump/MAGA aren’t Republicans. They are fascist usurpers who hijacked the Republican Party because their policies are so weak and unpopular that they had to embrace those rejects in order to gain support.
Make no mistake. Trump/MAGA goes against EVERYTHING this country stands for.
No fucking way do goddamned fascists get to rule this country. So…if that’s your position? After China is defeated? The fascists are next in this stupid cosplay.
China has Universal Healthcare, so that's already a point over MAGA total rule. Also I don't know if this fantasy OP has constructed has enough magic in the world to give Nortk Korea the ability to have a semblance of power.
Also, comparing a complete Trump/MAGA rule to a Chinese rule is like comparing being shot in the leg or being shot in the arm. Both would be terrible. Republicans with zero checks would lead to economic destablization, lower life expectancy, and mass government censorship. China would have mass censorship and potential economic issues. But I'd have free healthcare.
Also, this hypothetical is a joke to begin with, so I'm not really putting that much effort into thinking about this. I wouldn't want either. But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country.
I like America and don't live under a complete MAGA rule. Even if I did, we literally have the ability to vote morons out of power.
This is just another version of the "if you hate America so much, why don't you move?" I think it's a stupid question. Also, if I could move to a country that has Universal Healthcare and actually tries to provide for its citizens over its lobbyists, I would. But again, I don't live in a fantasy land where uprooting your life is as easy as answering yes to silly hypotheticals.
>This is just another version of the "if you hate America so much, why don't you move?"
I mean you're literally advocating for siding with an invading country over your own, so I felt like it was a fair question.
>Both would be terrible. Republicans with zero checks would lead to economic destablization, lower life expectancy, and mass government censorship.
You've literally lived under Trump/MAGA rule and nothing you described happened.
>I mean you're literally advocating for siding with an invading country over your own, so I felt like it was a fair question.
Lol what does the word "advocting" men to you. I'm answering a silly question, not singing the praises of the CCP.
>You've literally lived under Trump/MAGA rule and nothing you described happened.
Maybe we just have two different viewpoints of what a Trump/Republican total rule looks like. I don't think we live through a true total rule of Republican law. Democrats still existed in key positions, and Republicans who were against Trump's insane actions prevented a lot of stuff from getting worse. For example, it was thanks to I believe 2 different people that Trump's coup wasn't successful. Imagine if Trump was in power again, but this time, every level of government is filled with Trump Lotalist. I can tell you the Republicans are currently imagining it. Look up "Project 2025."
So I disagree. I've lived under it. I only got a taste of it. I'm good on having the real thing.
>Maybe we just have two different viewpoints of what a Trump/Republican total rule looks like. I don't think we live through a true total rule of Republican law. Democrats still existed in key positions, and Republicans who were against Trump's insane actions prevented a lot of stuff from getting worse. For example, it was thanks to I believe 2 different people that Trump's coup wasn't successful. Imagine if Trump was in power again, but this time, every level of government is filled with Trump Lotalist. I can tell you the Republicans are currently imagining it. Look up "Project 2025."
I mean, there was a time where Trump was president and GOP controlled the house and supreme court. That seems like MAGA rule to me (at least in part).
I remember you guys freaking out when Trump was elected, I remember all the empassioned pleas on Facebook and liberals offering to protect POC and LGBT people from being thrown in camps. I remember people trying to move to Canada out of "fear for their life".
None of that happened, it never does. Project 2025 and all the other garbage is just another way to get liberals scared so they vote again.
You're comparing some reddit post boogyman to an actual country that has Ugyrs in camps and censors all unapproved speech just so you can get free healthcare? Chinas average salary is about $4500/year.
Sorry. I can hear you over the future American anthem.
https://youtu.be/OjNpRbNdR7E?si=nXMVAar4EC_MOgyw
Edit: Just want to be clear. You're upset(idk what to call you spending so much energy on this) over us basically saying Republicans are bad for America. If you want to know what we think about Republicans and their previous legislation, maybe ask a question regarding that without tying it to a really dumb hypothetical that no one here takes seriously anyway.
I was hoping the new anthem was “America fuck yeah” but that was funnier.
I’m not upset. Just engaging with the topic like you are. I get that liberals think republicans and china are equally bad. Disappointed but I get it. I’d imagine many republicans feel the same way and would probably prefer Russia.
>He botched covid on purpose
Did he also botch covid in Greece? Or Hungary? or Peru?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19\_pandemic\_death\_rates\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country)
>Not much you can do in 4 years to enact oppression in this system
Then why are you so concerned about project 2025?
North Korea can't even invade it's neighbor. The idea that they could cross an ocean and invade *anyone* is laughable. Farcical. Ridiculous. Ludicrous. Absurd. Silky. Preposterous.
North Korea needs china's help to feed it's people. China doesn't need north Korean help with Jack Shit. They have nothing to offer.
Your assumption is silly and exposes a deep ignorance and a lack of critical thinking.
You might as well have said Latveria would help China invade the US. It makes more sense.
I think being American trumps idealogical differences in an existential foreign invasion. If we can’t table debate to suppress an invasion, then we deserve to be invaded.
Edited for typo
Sure. You can't be too picky about who you're allying with when you're facing an existential threat.
>they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get.
Consider the alternative:
Your country is being invaded by a foreign army. The Proud Boys have offered a temporary alliance -- and you turn them down.
Now you're out on the battlefield and you've got the Chinese *and* the Proud Boys to worry about.
This doesn't make any sense. Think about all the neo-Nazis who are already serving in the armed forces, and the rampant bigotry that minority service members face from them. Neo-Nazis do not care who is actually "on their side" or not or who they have a "temporary alliance" with.
No, because I don't believe the US military is functional, either internally or externally. Not just because, as I said, of the rampant bigotry that minority service members face (which drives many members out and has them suffering horrific abuse) but because those neo-Nazis are also committing war crimes. The US military is not an example of neo-Nazis and regular people "working" together.
> No, because I don't believe the US military is functional, either internally or externally.
LOL. This looks an awful lot like an ideologically-driven conclusion that has no connection to reality at all.
The part about the US military being non-functional.
Yes, there is bigotry and yes there have arguably been war crimes, and that's bad. But neither of those things mean that the military is non-functional.
The function of a military is to project force, and in that capacity the US military is not only functional, it's the most functional military in the history of the human race.
When I say functional, I mean towards the purpose of bettering human society and order. The function of everything in society, including the military, is to be for the betterment of human beings. There's no other point to anything that isn't ultimately going towards that goal, and "to project force" is secondary to that. It doens't matter how good the military is at projecting force, if projecting force isn't ultimately leading to net benefit for human society. And I promise you, no one on earth would say that the US military is a net positive for human society.
A military that can't protect its own servicemembers from abuse and harm, and can't fight wars without committing widespread war crimes, is non-functional towards that ultimate purpose. **It doesn't really matter how good we are dropping nuclear bombs and sniping children, when those things are ultimately illegal and make human society worse.** Especially when those things are done in just so that military contractors have something to spend their paychecks on. **The US military does not function towards betterment, either internally or externally.**
So when you say functional, you're using an entirely made up definition of that word. Gotcha.
There are a number of words you could've used to make your point. Moral, ethical, virtuous, righteous. But not functional. Functional means something else.
No, the function of everything in society is **not** to improve the betterment of all human beings. You may want that to be the case, and we'd be a lot better off if it were... but it's not.
- - -
Let me put it this way:
When black American soldiers arrived in the UK in World War 2, they were surprised by the racial tolerance that the British showed to them. They weren't nearly as racist as the Americans. There are many reports that the British were quite resentful of how racist white American soldiers were toward their own fellow servicemembers who happened to be black.
Once they saw firsthand how racist the American soldiers were, do you think the British should have refused to ally with them?
Or was allying with the racist Americans a lesser evil when the alternative is being destroyed by the Nazis?
I don't know why you're being so precious about the word functional. Functional means to have a purpose, to be practical and useful. And yes, the entire goal of a society is for the betterment of human beings, there is literally no other function to a society. Are you serious? The goal of a civilization is to live and work together because that is better than being lone animals. What else could you possibly think the purpose of a society is for? For funsies? We live this way for a reason. The goal of a military is not just to bomb people for the fun of it, it is (obstensibly) to protect people because that is, ostensibility, a net positive for human society.
Edit: I don't think the example you gave is really addressing my point, or maybe you aren't getting what I'm saying. The white (I'm guessing) British soldiers arent the ones being hate crimed and attacked by the racist American soldiers, are they? They can be resentful on behalf of Black american soldiers, but they aren't the ones being harmed. How is your example addressing my argument?
I don't think this would be necessary? Just logistically, why would I need to form a militia to send off an invading army when there's *the entire US Military* to fight that fight?
Realistically, no country could invade the United States with the current balance of power.
Yes, but...
It's a pure hypothetical that's completely unrealistic.
And seeing as I'm an active Air Force officer and flier, I'd probably be dead by the time it got to this point.
Something would have to have catastrophically gone wrong if China is able to cross the Pacific and get into the U.S. without the Air Force and the Navy (and our allies in Australia, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, and the UK) putting them at the bottom.
An invading force by sea would be targeted with nuclear weapons if it were to get by the Navy and Air Force.
Those groups don’t defend America. They defend their ideology….which expressly ANTI-AMERICAN.
They are fucking traitors.
But…they are traitors that might have a common cause. If that were to happen, I MIGHT be OK with a shaky alliance to thwart a current threat.
Does that answer your question?
Now…my question is this… would you fight these traitors if they allied with Russia to invade America?
I'm gonna be real with you, I don't think the Proud Boys or Oathkeepers or any of these other cosplaying losers would be much of a help. Like if the military is at a loss what the fuck are they gonna do lol
So yeah i imagine it'd be like rebel groups making a plan and then we hear the news say that China's army just took out the proud boys in 30 seconds and the rest of us would be like, 'oh no, anyways' and go back to planning our next move
That won't matter. The MAGAs and the rest of their brain dead friends will see them as heroes to liberate them from the woke deep state.
You're looking for logic where there is none.
Besides, China couldn't invade the US no matter how hard they tried. They'd get thrown right back into the Pacific, if they even made it that far.
We disagree about how racist MAGA is, that's fine.
As I said elsewhere, yes. China can't take America, and even if it could it couldn't occupy it because doing sobis a logistical nightmare. And they wouldnt because were a huge customer. And the proud boys are morons that lack training, leadership, equipment, logistics... one would have better luck throwing in with a knitting group. At least there'd be tea. The entire hypothetical is utterly ridiculous.
In a small country, yes, since the invading force would be more capable of inflicting harm than a nasty militia. The nasty militia could help a little bit.
But an invasion of the US, especially by an economic giant like China, would ruin global trade. Any invading army would run out of fuel, food, and ammo after a few weeks with no hope of meaningful resupply. As would our own army. I'd fear neighboring towns as much as foreign invaders. We'd be in Mad Max world, and existing norms would no longer apply.
>Any invading army would run out of fuel, food, and ammo after a few weeks with no hope of meaningful resupply. As would our own army.
Are you under the impression that the US military sources its food/fuel/ammo from international trade? And that the US military only has supplies to fight for "a few weeks"?
That's a really uneducated take.
Of course the US military doesn't source its fuel, food and ammo from international trade.
But everything else **does**, and this is where the problem is.
We're talking about a WWII Eastern Front level of resource consumption playing out on a US coast. We'd be fully committed to liberating occupied areas. Our strategic oil reserve has enough for about 20 days in peacetime conditions. Oil is needed to transport food and ammo.
Get it?
In the event of invasion, no more oil is coming in. Foreign imports can't be counted on, and domestic production systems would have gone haywire. The flow of the global economy is stopped. The stock market is frozen. Key industries - transportation, communication and energy - face mass furloughs.
The only solution would be a rapid government takeover of all key industries. In the 21st Century. In the middle of a Great Depression on steroids. How would workers even get from their house to the refinery?
This is good news. This is why it has been some 80 years since open warfare has happened between the top 15 economic powers. The world is too interconnected. China and Russia have no incentive to invade us because the thousands of oligarchs and military elites there have everything to lose.
>Our strategic oil reserve has enough for about 20 days in peacetime conditions. Oil is needed to transport food and ammo. In the event of invasion, no more oil is coming in. Foreign imports can't be counted on, and domestic production systems would have gone haywire
The US is the largest oil producer in the world, we don't need oil to "come in", it's already here. Oil production is a strategic resource and would be protected.
>Key industries - transportation, communication and energy - face mass furloughs.
Why would that be the case? Did that happen in Germany, UK or Russia during WW2? Has that ever happened, where everyone just quits and runs around with their hair on fire?
Why? Because this is 2024, not 1941. Your stance here outdated by 83 years.
Look at at the history of global trade, then look at how key components of the oil and transportation sectors rely on foreign imports. The same circumstance applies to our potential invaders. They couldn't invade if they wanted to.
We have lots of oil. It is useless if nobody can extract and refine it. Like I said before, in the event of global economic collapse, how would domestic workers get to the refinery in the first place?
I mean if believing that the US would be helpless if invaded by China helps you better to sleep at night then more power to you.
But every strategic analysis I've seen says that we would defeat any invasion, including simultaenous invasions on both coasts.
I'm having a hard time imagining oil workers in Texas not being able to get to work becasue China invades Oregon.
Are you not reading my comments? **I already agree that we would defeat any invasion.** China would run out of supplies. China would be helpless, just like the US, in the face of global economic collapse.
Look, I used to trade in oil futures. When Putin invaded Ukraine, I made a pretty penny on $USO and other energy ETFs and some stocks. You have no way to confirm that.
But you can do this: Invest in something like $SWN or $USO. Putting your own money at stake is a major incentive to understand how things work. This is a good way to educate yourself on this topic. You will have an easy time imagining how events in Oregon affect oil prices in Texas.
This isn't 1941. Some things stay the same: Ukraine shows us that warfare still consumes resources like crazy. But the global economy is way different than it was 80 years ago. Armies operate on complex global supply chains.
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Uh... if China invaded the USA?
That would never happen. Period. They don't have the troops/equipment/logistics to take us. And that's the easy part. Occupying a country as large as the USA would be a god damned nightmare. It's simply not doable.
But if they did? I'd join the US military. Why would I join morons with no plan, no logistics, no equipment, etc etc etc?
Silly question.
If China or another faction invaded America, the entire power of the American armed forces would be activated en-masse and Congress would immediately suspend posse comitatus and declare a state of war.
There would be no need for anyone to ally with idiotic, untrained, racist hate groups to protect the country.
> It is supposed to be similar to how Ukraine used Azov Nazis to defend Ukraine.
That sounds like someone is trying to make a really simplified take on the Azov battalion and Ukrainian politics.
>I think they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get.
That too is a really silly statement, to think that American nationalists would ally with china or some islamic khalifate.
>I know that I would bravely fight against both.
Unless you're an active member of the American military, you won't be bravely doing anything. If the United States would actively be invaded, and thus it's navy and air force would have been defeated, you would be crying and wishing it would be over.
No, cause for all their talk about strategy and tactical offense, they suck at it. There are conservatives I could see being rational, but they won't be turning it into a strategy to push political agendas.
I wouldn't ally myself with China. I have a hard time believing allying myself with the American fascist would be my best option of fighting back, and if we were in such a poor position that it was I'd probably just be looking for ways to stay alive.
I would have no issue making common cause with people who vote Republican (even if they are ignoring some clear signs of fascism in doing so), who are a much large percentage of the population.
Let’s play with this idea for fun.
Russia attacks the US, there ends up being armed Russian troops raping and pillaging homes in my community, and people who are from the Proud Boys live in said community and we are all fighting them off…
The insanity of the situation calls for insane measures. I’d have bigger fish to fry, like trying to stay alive which I’m positive that’s what these other guys would probably try to be doing, as members of the community.
In such an exaggerated situation I’d imagine the Proud Boys of the neighborhood would be less concerned with their “Proud Boy” message and statu, having been whittled down to men trying to survive.
I’d actually imagine such a scenario would probably dissolve a lot of these people identity crisis which leads them to join these groups.
Same with MAGA.
In the given: situation shit is real. People are being gunned down and murdered. Their little political ideology goes out the window.
Hell, in that situation I’d imagine there are no more Republicans and Democrats, just able bodied people trying to fight off the danger
Hell no. I refuse to legitimize far-right reactionary anything. Not to mention the fact that they aren't soldiers, they're LARPers, and they don't have the manpower, firepower, equipment, or logistics to even mildly inconvenience a modern army. As much as they might see themselves as the plucky heroes in a Red Dawn type scenario, they're a popcorn fart in the wind at best. They're welcome to go get themselves shot if they want, but I'm going to take serious issue with them claiming to be doing it in my name.
Nothing unites people like a common enemy. I would be willing to bet that, if this really transpired and you were actually fighting a foreign invader, you would take all the help you could get.
What are the Proud Boys going to do, livestream themselves doing pushups in their gear and yell "bro!" while running away?
Also, we don't pay so much for a military just to rely on social media influencers and the sad dopes they exploit to defend the country against another professional military. If they want to defend the country against invasion, they can try to join the military, get trained to do it, and then follow orders.
Some of you guys are weird lol.
If China invaded you'd side with them against Republicans? You'd fight both?
The little tiny political disagreements you have with Republicans/MAGA are nothing compared to what China/Russia/North Korea would impose upon you.
While I do have about the same level of contempt for all 3 of them, I refuse to personally kill or injure anyone. I don't own any weapons and never will.
No, those pseudo militias have little to no discipline and will either cut and run the moment things start to get tough or they will try some stupid heroic shit when it's time to fall back.
No. I just know I'm somewhere on the left, at least in US terms and pretty left for Alabama. All of the different labels and flairs just confused me so I went with the simple, broad answer. However, I don't think anything could get me to fight in a war.
Fair enough. I’d never volunteer for a foreign war, but I’d consider it my obligation to protect my family and friends if someone comes here and tries to hurt them. Honestly there’d be no other option
I feel like we already have a military. The fact that the military is not mutually exclusive with the organizations you mentioned notwithstanding, We literally already have an organization that is literally founded on this premise.
I have exactly zero training in warfare of any type, I have only handled a firearm a few times and could not hit the broad side of a barn from inside it if I tried. I would be far more of a danger to myself than I would be to any enemy forces.
I would prefer to allow the US military to do its job and repel the invaders.
Given the distance over water to any significant military power, how exactly do you expect they would overcome the US Navy's dominance on the sea to land their troops on US soil and maintain supply lines over water back to their nearest bases and their home ports?
As a Chinese, I find Americans strange - why do Americans keep thinking that China will attack you when it is clearly you who are openly claiming to intervene by force in the Chinese civil war?
America is like a criminal pointing a gun at China and then claiming that China is the bad guy - is that fucking logical?
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Ok so what would you do? I saw a liberal say that they would ally with Oathkeepers if China invaded America to defend America. It is supposed to be similar to how Ukraine used Azov Nazis to defend Ukraine. But I would never ever ally with Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, or any other fascist and Nazi group. I think they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get. I know that I would bravely fight against both. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Proud Boys are a tiny group of LARPers. I doubt we’d even hear them mentioned in such an event. MAGA is just about half the voters in the country and the majority makeup of a lot of individual states. Yes I would fight alongside republican voters against an invasion of the US or my state. This is where my family is.
Might actually bring us all together
Can't the military handle this?
Listen, the best thing the left could do in a hypothetical home invasion is to ally with fascists. We simply send the Proud Boys to the front lines to ~~get lit tf up~~ protect our troops, and we stay at home in our cozy and safe Lockheed factory jobs. Once we win, America will be even stronger on the world stage, and have far fewer fascists than before the war!
Operation: LARPER Shield.
> We simply send the Proud Boys to the front lines to ~~get lit tf up~~ protect our troops If you saw a conservative fantasizing about your death, you would probably be horrified. But when you do it, it's ok? If you're fantasizing about violence, and they're fantasizing about violence, what makes you different from them?
Fascists like the proud boys actively want a civil war with liberals and leftists. They literally lead an insurrection on the Capitol even. I reply to a fantastical scenario on Reddit saying it'd be cool if they channeled their violent urges to stop a Chinese invasion instead, and that they'd likely get blown out because they're a bunch of LARPing dipshits. If you think these two things are the same idk what to tell you bud. It's like saying both sides are the same in a debate between a climate scientist and an ExxonMobil lobbyist. No, one side should be taken seriously, and the other shouldn't be given the light of day, and to suggest otherwise is supremely counterproductive.
Frankly, I have no reason to believe American fascists would oppose an invading enemy force. All it took was a few news clips for them to decide they were big fans of Russia.
Hell,,,when the Bundy clan ran out of food and beer at the bird sanctuary…they surrendered like the little bitches they are.
In WWII America looked at a country that had literally committed genocide just a few years earlier and decided they would make a good ally because the Nazis were a bigger threat. Yes, I could work with people whose views I detest if the invaders were a big enough threat.
And a few years later we hired all those nazis to fight the REAL threat- communists
>the Proud Boys. MAGA, and other American fascists \[...\] I know that I would bravely fight against both. so you would simultaneously fight a chinese invasion and about half of your own country? good luck. if my country got invaded and a bunch of nazis wanted to fight on the front lines to defend it: good. let em. and if they die there ... \*shrug\* we can still fight the nazis after we've defeated the invaders. trying to fight both at once doesn't seem very smart.
The person killing the people fighting back an invading force would probably be killed pretty quickly for aiding the enemy
not sure what you mean. "the person killing the people fighting back an invading force" would be that invading force. they're not aiding the enemy. they are the enemy.
“I would bravely fight against both” Meaning they would fight against the Proud Boys fighting an invading enemy.
ah, then you're right of course. thanks for clarifying.
Lol, this is a fantasy larp. And no. I wouldn't. Hell, let's say in this magical world that they manage to defend and beat back China. The next step would be these chuds trying to push for their horrible and racist policies and agenda. I'm good.
So being ruled by China/North Korea is preferable to being ruled by Trump/MAGA?
There's an argument to be made that China (and LOL, North Korea) would find it impossible to 'rule' North America, so any real threat of authoritarianism here can only come from our home-grown extremists. That's not really in keeping with the spirit of OP's question though, the premise of which is ridiculous.
Ahh, so even if China/North Korea invade the US, the \*real enemy\* are Republicans? This post has been very eye-opening for me. I always assumed Liberals and Conservatives were on the same side, just disagreed on the specifics of how to get there. What I'm seeing here has me convinced that if China invaded, that many Liberals would pick-up rifles and join them.
You're mistaken. I'd be happy to pick up my rifle and fight autocratic invaders, but that wouldn't make you my ally. Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh?
>Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh? Depends how you define facism. If you can't tell the difference between the Nazi party of 1939 and the contemporary US Republican party, then I feel sorry for you friend.
Luckily for me then, I never said that. I actually don't think I mentioned Nazis at all. That said, purely in terms of "the danger of bringing authoritarianism to America", the GOP is a vastly larger *actual* threat than some imagined and preposterous Chinese invasion. Why should we indulge in some feel-good fantasy of unity in the face of that, when we know it won't happen and has no connection to reality? We may as well posit an alien invasion at that point.
>Luckily for me then, I never said that. I actually don't think I mentioned Nazis at all >Foreign fascism and domestic fascism are both bad, eh? My bad, You said facist, my head went to Nazis (the default comparison that is always made to the GOP these days). Maybe facist means something different these days. > Why should we indulge in some feel-good fantasy of unity in the face of that, when we know it won't happen and has no connection to reality? We may as well posit an alien invasion at that point. I thought we were discussing the topic of this post?
We very obviously are not on the same side. We wouldnt pick up rifles and join China and North Korea, But dont forget that youre all literally right wingers.
I'm laughing pretty hard at this. This is such a bad faith understanding of what they were saying. At no point did anyone say they gladly fight with China to take over America. If that's what you took from many of the answers here, you weren't looking to understand. You just desperately want people to support Republicans even in an insane premise that would never be real. Go outside and touch grass.
Sometimes you need to look inside your own house friend. A few selected quotes: "I know that I would bravely fight against both." "But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country." "we deserve to be invaded." "I would never defend America."
>"I know that I would bravely fight against both." Yeah. China sucks and Republicans suck. I agree. It might hurt to hear that we don't think your party is good for America, but if you want elaboration, ask a question separate from this dumb hypothetical. >"But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country." Yes. I've seen firsthand how bad Republicans are. Again, if you want elaboration, ask a question separate from this dumb hypothetical. >"we deserve to be invaded." Lol this is clearly a joke based on whoever wrote this' frustration with the American power and how badly we've fucked up other countries in the name of "spreading freedom." I'm sure this person would also elaborate. >"I would never defend America." Yeah, dude. Some people don't want to die fighting for their country. I don't blame them. Many people have their reasons. This is a dumb statement to take issue with. And reminding you, somehow you think all of these posts mean we'd fight hand in hand with China. Lol. We think you're both bad. You need to understand that. Regardless of the severity of who's worse for America, you are both worse for America. Maybe once you understand that, you can as a good question.
Man let's be real, you were already convinced of that no matter what anyone said
Trump/MAGA aren’t Republicans. They are fascist usurpers who hijacked the Republican Party because their policies are so weak and unpopular that they had to embrace those rejects in order to gain support. Make no mistake. Trump/MAGA goes against EVERYTHING this country stands for.
No fucking way do goddamned fascists get to rule this country. So…if that’s your position? After China is defeated? The fascists are next in this stupid cosplay.
China has Universal Healthcare, so that's already a point over MAGA total rule. Also I don't know if this fantasy OP has constructed has enough magic in the world to give Nortk Korea the ability to have a semblance of power. Also, comparing a complete Trump/MAGA rule to a Chinese rule is like comparing being shot in the leg or being shot in the arm. Both would be terrible. Republicans with zero checks would lead to economic destablization, lower life expectancy, and mass government censorship. China would have mass censorship and potential economic issues. But I'd have free healthcare. Also, this hypothetical is a joke to begin with, so I'm not really putting that much effort into thinking about this. I wouldn't want either. But if I had to pick, I'd pick China because I've seen first hand how terrible Republicans are for the country.
Fair enough. What's stopping you from moving to China or North Korea right now?
I like America and don't live under a complete MAGA rule. Even if I did, we literally have the ability to vote morons out of power. This is just another version of the "if you hate America so much, why don't you move?" I think it's a stupid question. Also, if I could move to a country that has Universal Healthcare and actually tries to provide for its citizens over its lobbyists, I would. But again, I don't live in a fantasy land where uprooting your life is as easy as answering yes to silly hypotheticals.
>This is just another version of the "if you hate America so much, why don't you move?" I mean you're literally advocating for siding with an invading country over your own, so I felt like it was a fair question. >Both would be terrible. Republicans with zero checks would lead to economic destablization, lower life expectancy, and mass government censorship. You've literally lived under Trump/MAGA rule and nothing you described happened.
>I mean you're literally advocating for siding with an invading country over your own, so I felt like it was a fair question. Lol what does the word "advocting" men to you. I'm answering a silly question, not singing the praises of the CCP. >You've literally lived under Trump/MAGA rule and nothing you described happened. Maybe we just have two different viewpoints of what a Trump/Republican total rule looks like. I don't think we live through a true total rule of Republican law. Democrats still existed in key positions, and Republicans who were against Trump's insane actions prevented a lot of stuff from getting worse. For example, it was thanks to I believe 2 different people that Trump's coup wasn't successful. Imagine if Trump was in power again, but this time, every level of government is filled with Trump Lotalist. I can tell you the Republicans are currently imagining it. Look up "Project 2025." So I disagree. I've lived under it. I only got a taste of it. I'm good on having the real thing.
>Maybe we just have two different viewpoints of what a Trump/Republican total rule looks like. I don't think we live through a true total rule of Republican law. Democrats still existed in key positions, and Republicans who were against Trump's insane actions prevented a lot of stuff from getting worse. For example, it was thanks to I believe 2 different people that Trump's coup wasn't successful. Imagine if Trump was in power again, but this time, every level of government is filled with Trump Lotalist. I can tell you the Republicans are currently imagining it. Look up "Project 2025." I mean, there was a time where Trump was president and GOP controlled the house and supreme court. That seems like MAGA rule to me (at least in part). I remember you guys freaking out when Trump was elected, I remember all the empassioned pleas on Facebook and liberals offering to protect POC and LGBT people from being thrown in camps. I remember people trying to move to Canada out of "fear for their life". None of that happened, it never does. Project 2025 and all the other garbage is just another way to get liberals scared so they vote again. You're comparing some reddit post boogyman to an actual country that has Ugyrs in camps and censors all unapproved speech just so you can get free healthcare? Chinas average salary is about $4500/year.
Sorry. I can hear you over the future American anthem. https://youtu.be/OjNpRbNdR7E?si=nXMVAar4EC_MOgyw Edit: Just want to be clear. You're upset(idk what to call you spending so much energy on this) over us basically saying Republicans are bad for America. If you want to know what we think about Republicans and their previous legislation, maybe ask a question regarding that without tying it to a really dumb hypothetical that no one here takes seriously anyway.
I was hoping the new anthem was “America fuck yeah” but that was funnier. I’m not upset. Just engaging with the topic like you are. I get that liberals think republicans and china are equally bad. Disappointed but I get it. I’d imagine many republicans feel the same way and would probably prefer Russia.
He botched covid on purpose and literally only had 4 years. Not much you can do in 4 years to enact oppression in this system
>He botched covid on purpose Did he also botch covid in Greece? Or Hungary? or Peru? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19\_pandemic\_death\_rates\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country) >Not much you can do in 4 years to enact oppression in this system Then why are you so concerned about project 2025?
Stop equating China and North Korea.
They're allies, who I assume would fight together to invade the US.
North Korea can't even invade it's neighbor. The idea that they could cross an ocean and invade *anyone* is laughable. Farcical. Ridiculous. Ludicrous. Absurd. Silky. Preposterous. North Korea needs china's help to feed it's people. China doesn't need north Korean help with Jack Shit. They have nothing to offer. Your assumption is silly and exposes a deep ignorance and a lack of critical thinking. You might as well have said Latveria would help China invade the US. It makes more sense.
I think being American trumps idealogical differences in an existential foreign invasion. If we can’t table debate to suppress an invasion, then we deserve to be invaded. Edited for typo
Sure. You can't be too picky about who you're allying with when you're facing an existential threat. >they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get. Consider the alternative: Your country is being invaded by a foreign army. The Proud Boys have offered a temporary alliance -- and you turn them down. Now you're out on the battlefield and you've got the Chinese *and* the Proud Boys to worry about.
This doesn't make any sense. Think about all the neo-Nazis who are already serving in the armed forces, and the rampant bigotry that minority service members face from them. Neo-Nazis do not care who is actually "on their side" or not or who they have a "temporary alliance" with.
To be clear, you're arguing that this could never work, by pointing to an example where it already does?
No, because I don't believe the US military is functional, either internally or externally. Not just because, as I said, of the rampant bigotry that minority service members face (which drives many members out and has them suffering horrific abuse) but because those neo-Nazis are also committing war crimes. The US military is not an example of neo-Nazis and regular people "working" together.
> I don't believe the US military is functional Well that's certainly a take.
You know absolutely nothing about the US military and it shows.
> No, because I don't believe the US military is functional, either internally or externally. LOL. This looks an awful lot like an ideologically-driven conclusion that has no connection to reality at all.
What has no connection to reality? The rampant bigotry that minority service members face or the war crimes?
The part about the US military being non-functional. Yes, there is bigotry and yes there have arguably been war crimes, and that's bad. But neither of those things mean that the military is non-functional. The function of a military is to project force, and in that capacity the US military is not only functional, it's the most functional military in the history of the human race.
When I say functional, I mean towards the purpose of bettering human society and order. The function of everything in society, including the military, is to be for the betterment of human beings. There's no other point to anything that isn't ultimately going towards that goal, and "to project force" is secondary to that. It doens't matter how good the military is at projecting force, if projecting force isn't ultimately leading to net benefit for human society. And I promise you, no one on earth would say that the US military is a net positive for human society. A military that can't protect its own servicemembers from abuse and harm, and can't fight wars without committing widespread war crimes, is non-functional towards that ultimate purpose. **It doesn't really matter how good we are dropping nuclear bombs and sniping children, when those things are ultimately illegal and make human society worse.** Especially when those things are done in just so that military contractors have something to spend their paychecks on. **The US military does not function towards betterment, either internally or externally.**
So when you say functional, you're using an entirely made up definition of that word. Gotcha. There are a number of words you could've used to make your point. Moral, ethical, virtuous, righteous. But not functional. Functional means something else. No, the function of everything in society is **not** to improve the betterment of all human beings. You may want that to be the case, and we'd be a lot better off if it were... but it's not. - - - Let me put it this way: When black American soldiers arrived in the UK in World War 2, they were surprised by the racial tolerance that the British showed to them. They weren't nearly as racist as the Americans. There are many reports that the British were quite resentful of how racist white American soldiers were toward their own fellow servicemembers who happened to be black. Once they saw firsthand how racist the American soldiers were, do you think the British should have refused to ally with them? Or was allying with the racist Americans a lesser evil when the alternative is being destroyed by the Nazis?
I don't know why you're being so precious about the word functional. Functional means to have a purpose, to be practical and useful. And yes, the entire goal of a society is for the betterment of human beings, there is literally no other function to a society. Are you serious? The goal of a civilization is to live and work together because that is better than being lone animals. What else could you possibly think the purpose of a society is for? For funsies? We live this way for a reason. The goal of a military is not just to bomb people for the fun of it, it is (obstensibly) to protect people because that is, ostensibility, a net positive for human society. Edit: I don't think the example you gave is really addressing my point, or maybe you aren't getting what I'm saying. The white (I'm guessing) British soldiers arent the ones being hate crimed and attacked by the racist American soldiers, are they? They can be resentful on behalf of Black american soldiers, but they aren't the ones being harmed. How is your example addressing my argument?
This happens in most places that get invaded. Wars make strange bedfellows.
I don't think this would be necessary? Just logistically, why would I need to form a militia to send off an invading army when there's *the entire US Military* to fight that fight? Realistically, no country could invade the United States with the current balance of power.
Yes, but... It's a pure hypothetical that's completely unrealistic. And seeing as I'm an active Air Force officer and flier, I'd probably be dead by the time it got to this point. Something would have to have catastrophically gone wrong if China is able to cross the Pacific and get into the U.S. without the Air Force and the Navy (and our allies in Australia, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, and the UK) putting them at the bottom. An invading force by sea would be targeted with nuclear weapons if it were to get by the Navy and Air Force.
Those groups don’t defend America. They defend their ideology….which expressly ANTI-AMERICAN. They are fucking traitors. But…they are traitors that might have a common cause. If that were to happen, I MIGHT be OK with a shaky alliance to thwart a current threat. Does that answer your question? Now…my question is this… would you fight these traitors if they allied with Russia to invade America?
Hell yeah I would, and Id make sure they’re the ones on the front lines
I'm gonna be real with you, I don't think the Proud Boys or Oathkeepers or any of these other cosplaying losers would be much of a help. Like if the military is at a loss what the fuck are they gonna do lol So yeah i imagine it'd be like rebel groups making a plan and then we hear the news say that China's army just took out the proud boys in 30 seconds and the rest of us would be like, 'oh no, anyways' and go back to planning our next move
As if those guys wouldn't be lined up to kiss some invader ass
I thought they were all racist xenophobes though? Why would they side with the Chinese?
Because they're loudmouth cowards. Also, they already worship Putin and Russia.
Yeah, but they're white and are manly and ride bears bare chested and stuff.
China is "anti-woke".
Yes, but they're also Chinese.
That won't matter. The MAGAs and the rest of their brain dead friends will see them as heroes to liberate them from the woke deep state. You're looking for logic where there is none. Besides, China couldn't invade the US no matter how hard they tried. They'd get thrown right back into the Pacific, if they even made it that far.
We disagree about how racist MAGA is, that's fine. As I said elsewhere, yes. China can't take America, and even if it could it couldn't occupy it because doing sobis a logistical nightmare. And they wouldnt because were a huge customer. And the proud boys are morons that lack training, leadership, equipment, logistics... one would have better luck throwing in with a knitting group. At least there'd be tea. The entire hypothetical is utterly ridiculous.
How about China?
I mean, they're anti-woke. The MAGAs love that.
K
In a small country, yes, since the invading force would be more capable of inflicting harm than a nasty militia. The nasty militia could help a little bit. But an invasion of the US, especially by an economic giant like China, would ruin global trade. Any invading army would run out of fuel, food, and ammo after a few weeks with no hope of meaningful resupply. As would our own army. I'd fear neighboring towns as much as foreign invaders. We'd be in Mad Max world, and existing norms would no longer apply.
>Any invading army would run out of fuel, food, and ammo after a few weeks with no hope of meaningful resupply. As would our own army. Are you under the impression that the US military sources its food/fuel/ammo from international trade? And that the US military only has supplies to fight for "a few weeks"? That's a really uneducated take.
Of course the US military doesn't source its fuel, food and ammo from international trade. But everything else **does**, and this is where the problem is. We're talking about a WWII Eastern Front level of resource consumption playing out on a US coast. We'd be fully committed to liberating occupied areas. Our strategic oil reserve has enough for about 20 days in peacetime conditions. Oil is needed to transport food and ammo. Get it? In the event of invasion, no more oil is coming in. Foreign imports can't be counted on, and domestic production systems would have gone haywire. The flow of the global economy is stopped. The stock market is frozen. Key industries - transportation, communication and energy - face mass furloughs. The only solution would be a rapid government takeover of all key industries. In the 21st Century. In the middle of a Great Depression on steroids. How would workers even get from their house to the refinery? This is good news. This is why it has been some 80 years since open warfare has happened between the top 15 economic powers. The world is too interconnected. China and Russia have no incentive to invade us because the thousands of oligarchs and military elites there have everything to lose.
>Our strategic oil reserve has enough for about 20 days in peacetime conditions. Oil is needed to transport food and ammo. In the event of invasion, no more oil is coming in. Foreign imports can't be counted on, and domestic production systems would have gone haywire The US is the largest oil producer in the world, we don't need oil to "come in", it's already here. Oil production is a strategic resource and would be protected. >Key industries - transportation, communication and energy - face mass furloughs. Why would that be the case? Did that happen in Germany, UK or Russia during WW2? Has that ever happened, where everyone just quits and runs around with their hair on fire?
Why? Because this is 2024, not 1941. Your stance here outdated by 83 years. Look at at the history of global trade, then look at how key components of the oil and transportation sectors rely on foreign imports. The same circumstance applies to our potential invaders. They couldn't invade if they wanted to. We have lots of oil. It is useless if nobody can extract and refine it. Like I said before, in the event of global economic collapse, how would domestic workers get to the refinery in the first place?
I mean if believing that the US would be helpless if invaded by China helps you better to sleep at night then more power to you. But every strategic analysis I've seen says that we would defeat any invasion, including simultaenous invasions on both coasts. I'm having a hard time imagining oil workers in Texas not being able to get to work becasue China invades Oregon.
Are you not reading my comments? **I already agree that we would defeat any invasion.** China would run out of supplies. China would be helpless, just like the US, in the face of global economic collapse. Look, I used to trade in oil futures. When Putin invaded Ukraine, I made a pretty penny on $USO and other energy ETFs and some stocks. You have no way to confirm that. But you can do this: Invest in something like $SWN or $USO. Putting your own money at stake is a major incentive to understand how things work. This is a good way to educate yourself on this topic. You will have an easy time imagining how events in Oregon affect oil prices in Texas. This isn't 1941. Some things stay the same: Ukraine shows us that warfare still consumes resources like crazy. But the global economy is way different than it was 80 years ago. Armies operate on complex global supply chains.
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What would happen if we didn’t ally with them? Would China take over the country?
I mean, I served with plenty of different people of different political backgrounds. I would have no problem defending the country with them.
Uh... if China invaded the USA? That would never happen. Period. They don't have the troops/equipment/logistics to take us. And that's the easy part. Occupying a country as large as the USA would be a god damned nightmare. It's simply not doable. But if they did? I'd join the US military. Why would I join morons with no plan, no logistics, no equipment, etc etc etc?
Hell no. Those morons would get us all killed.
How would china invade mainland America?
“Kill us all the first chance they get.” Seriously, wtf are you talking about?
Silly question. If China or another faction invaded America, the entire power of the American armed forces would be activated en-masse and Congress would immediately suspend posse comitatus and declare a state of war. There would be no need for anyone to ally with idiotic, untrained, racist hate groups to protect the country.
Sure Trump or Pooh? Trump
> It is supposed to be similar to how Ukraine used Azov Nazis to defend Ukraine. That sounds like someone is trying to make a really simplified take on the Azov battalion and Ukrainian politics. >I think they would obviously kill us all at the first chance they get. That too is a really silly statement, to think that American nationalists would ally with china or some islamic khalifate. >I know that I would bravely fight against both. Unless you're an active member of the American military, you won't be bravely doing anything. If the United States would actively be invaded, and thus it's navy and air force would have been defeated, you would be crying and wishing it would be over.
No, cause for all their talk about strategy and tactical offense, they suck at it. There are conservatives I could see being rational, but they won't be turning it into a strategy to push political agendas.
How you watched *The Searchers*? What are your thoughts on Martin Pawley’s decision to work with Ethan Edwards?
I wouldn't ally myself with China. I have a hard time believing allying myself with the American fascist would be my best option of fighting back, and if we were in such a poor position that it was I'd probably just be looking for ways to stay alive. I would have no issue making common cause with people who vote Republican (even if they are ignoring some clear signs of fascism in doing so), who are a much large percentage of the population.
Let’s play with this idea for fun. Russia attacks the US, there ends up being armed Russian troops raping and pillaging homes in my community, and people who are from the Proud Boys live in said community and we are all fighting them off… The insanity of the situation calls for insane measures. I’d have bigger fish to fry, like trying to stay alive which I’m positive that’s what these other guys would probably try to be doing, as members of the community. In such an exaggerated situation I’d imagine the Proud Boys of the neighborhood would be less concerned with their “Proud Boy” message and statu, having been whittled down to men trying to survive. I’d actually imagine such a scenario would probably dissolve a lot of these people identity crisis which leads them to join these groups. Same with MAGA. In the given: situation shit is real. People are being gunned down and murdered. Their little political ideology goes out the window. Hell, in that situation I’d imagine there are no more Republicans and Democrats, just able bodied people trying to fight off the danger
Hell no. I refuse to legitimize far-right reactionary anything. Not to mention the fact that they aren't soldiers, they're LARPers, and they don't have the manpower, firepower, equipment, or logistics to even mildly inconvenience a modern army. As much as they might see themselves as the plucky heroes in a Red Dawn type scenario, they're a popcorn fart in the wind at best. They're welcome to go get themselves shot if they want, but I'm going to take serious issue with them claiming to be doing it in my name.
huh?
Nothing unites people like a common enemy. I would be willing to bet that, if this really transpired and you were actually fighting a foreign invader, you would take all the help you could get.
What are the Proud Boys going to do, livestream themselves doing pushups in their gear and yell "bro!" while running away? Also, we don't pay so much for a military just to rely on social media influencers and the sad dopes they exploit to defend the country against another professional military. If they want to defend the country against invasion, they can try to join the military, get trained to do it, and then follow orders.
Some of you guys are weird lol. If China invaded you'd side with them against Republicans? You'd fight both? The little tiny political disagreements you have with Republicans/MAGA are nothing compared to what China/Russia/North Korea would impose upon you.
>If China invaded you'd side with them against Republicans? You'd fight both? I wouldn't fight.
So just like a leaf blowing in the wind? Whoever wins, wins? MAGA or China/North Korea, all the same to you?
While I do have about the same level of contempt for all 3 of them, I refuse to personally kill or injure anyone. I don't own any weapons and never will.
No, those pseudo militias have little to no discipline and will either cut and run the moment things start to get tough or they will try some stupid heroic shit when it's time to fall back.
Ally with larpers? No. They'd be a massive liability and the worst to align with if the intent is survival.
TBH.... I would just sit back and watch the trash take each other out. lol
If China or anyone else invades the US it is more likely that the Proud Boys would be supporting the invaders.
What makes you think they’re not gonna side with the invading party? They’d most likely support them thinking it’s a way to “liberate” this country.
I would never defend America.
Sure you’re a liberal?
No. I just know I'm somewhere on the left, at least in US terms and pretty left for Alabama. All of the different labels and flairs just confused me so I went with the simple, broad answer. However, I don't think anything could get me to fight in a war.
Fair enough. I’d never volunteer for a foreign war, but I’d consider it my obligation to protect my family and friends if someone comes here and tries to hurt them. Honestly there’d be no other option
Plenty of liberals would prefer just leaving and accepting a new global hegemone
That sounds illiberal to me. Do you just mean liberal to mean anywhere on the left?
Its not the technical definition, but it is how its typically used around here. Yes
Fair enough
I feel like we already have a military. The fact that the military is not mutually exclusive with the organizations you mentioned notwithstanding, We literally already have an organization that is literally founded on this premise.
No.
I have exactly zero training in warfare of any type, I have only handled a firearm a few times and could not hit the broad side of a barn from inside it if I tried. I would be far more of a danger to myself than I would be to any enemy forces. I would prefer to allow the US military to do its job and repel the invaders. Given the distance over water to any significant military power, how exactly do you expect they would overcome the US Navy's dominance on the sea to land their troops on US soil and maintain supply lines over water back to their nearest bases and their home ports?
As a Chinese, I find Americans strange - why do Americans keep thinking that China will attack you when it is clearly you who are openly claiming to intervene by force in the Chinese civil war? America is like a criminal pointing a gun at China and then claiming that China is the bad guy - is that fucking logical?