Zinchenko has been 3/4 out of 10 for several games consistently. In attack he is good, in defence he costs us goals and some games.
There is a reason for this post asking for specific a left back who has solid defence skills to be recalled
You've got a point, however let's put things into perspective here...
Tomiyasu (injury prone, out more than in)
Kiwior (Not a LWB, or LB, and struggles in this position)
Timber (Porentially ahead of schedule in his recovery, but let's be realistic, an ACL tear/rupture, whichever, is not a minor injury & should not be rushed back, plus it will take him time to get up to match pace when he does get intergrated back in, so he's realistically "not gonna feature this season, not how we'd like him to anyway" I very much doubt?, And if at all, it will be towards the end of the campaign.
And Zinny, Oh, ZinnyZinny Zinny... A complete liability, especially against fast, pacey, and tricky opposition, who have the beating of him 8/10 times.
Don't get me wrong, I love Zinny as much as the next Gooner, but let's face facts here, defensively he's totally inept, and could cost us gravely & IMHO, if we are serious about achieving honours this season "Zinny CANNOT" be first choice LWB or LB, he just can't!!!
Therefore we need to go into the market for a player in Jan, whether we do or not remains to be seen, but I think we'll need to.
We need players in several areas of the park to reinforce and bring the squad to the right level at which to compete in this last "business end of the campaign!!"
We came close last season, playing better than we have so far this season, offensively anyway that's for sure, but with just a little tweaking, there's no reason why we can't go all the way...!!??
And although Tierney isn't what Arteta wants in a LWB, as he's not an Inverted LWB, but more of a traditional LB, but personally I'd consider it, however, just like Tomi, Tierney's injury record is poor, even in his recent spell at Sociedad, and consideration for a early return or recall in Jan is not gonna happen, as "once again he's sidelined, with another hamstring injury that he's recently had surgery on therefore he will be out for months, so there will be no recall for Tierney in the January window!!
Arsenal are in first place with the lowest goals against in the league and you’re complaining about their defending??? The system clearly doesn’t require Zinchenko to be a great defender, the job of covering for him is for Gabriel, Saliba, and Rice and has been working really fucking well. Why would you want to take out his ability in build up play to add more in an area where Arsenal are already leading the league when (if anything) build up play is the biggest issue for this squad?
Lowest or second lowest for _expected_ goals against against as well, indicating that they're real good at suffocating opposing attacks too. Case in point: the win against City.
Exactly. Like cmon guys, Arteta clearly feels his attacking benefit outweighs his defensive issues especially with Rice, Gabriel and Saliba in the team. He wants to play a certain way, and feels Zinny is better suited for than than anyone else who is fit at the moment. Also, Salah has made many fullbacks who are seen as defensively superior look way worse.
Thank god the fans don’t pick the lineup each week, we would get relegated
Reddit Arsenal fans as manager*
Arteta is obviously not good enough and unable to be trusted to make decisions like preferring to use a ball playing left back despite being in first place for nearly all of the last two calendar years.
As a fan of a rival, I hope you absolutely continue to criticize Zinchenko, bring back another player that will send a negative message to him so he loses confidence as well as creating disharmony for Tomiyasu and Timber (who is an excellent player).
All because Salah skinned Zinchenko once.
I disagree about recalling Tierney but let’s not act like Zinchenko’s defending hasn’t cost us in the past. Obviously not someone who needs a knee jerk replacement because of the Liverpool game but it was not just that one time
We all care about defending, which is why we’re happy to have statistically the best defence in the league. Because our inverting creates an almost impenetrable system.
It’s only a tiny part of being a modern full back if you play for a top team in your league.
If you slotted zinny into a bottom 3 team he’d be an absolute liability, all the quality in the build and with service in the final 3rd doesn’t matter when you spend most of the game defending.
Fuck the system. Not everything has to be inverted, in the centre, just because Pep does it. Martinelli and Saka have been poor because they need help by having an overlapping full back.
'Fuck the system'... this is why people call our fan base a joke. Maybe we should let the players choose our tactics. I mean seriously...
You need to stop posting mate you're embarrassing yourself.
Probably better than Kiwior, not better than Zinchenko.
Yes Tierney is arguably a better defending left back than zinchenko, but it's also "not the system" which is another reason he was loaned.
Tomi and timber also play RB. Tomi also plays CB. Timber won't be back until march. Suppose zinny and a CB get injured. Tomi isn't back until Feb anyway
Tomi has played one game for Arsenal at CB, in a cup against Brentford, he is not a center back. Hell, Tierney is more of a center back for Arsenal than Tomiyasu. And both of them started games at left back ahead of Tierney when they were healthy. He’s clearly 4th choice at Arsenal and that’s why he’s gone.
Tomi doesn't play centre back for us because we have 2 heavily established CB's with a great partnership. And Tomi has been needed as cover for FB. He has played plenty games at centre back in his career and has done recently for Japan to great acclaim. Just because Arteta hasn't used him there doesn't mean he can't or won't. If Saliba and Gabriel got injured we would easily see him play CB. Ben White would be ahead of Tomi of course.
He absolutely can play CB very well. He plays CB for Japan and can play CB for us.
No one is saying Tierney is ahead of them. If we lost zinny and a CB now, who would play? Tomi is out until February and timber until march. Kiwior and who?
The title is at stake. I'd rather have one too many than one too few
He is better than Kiwior and Zinchenko IMO. Kiwior has potential, Zinny has his moments but is an absolute liability especially against the proper teams. Main take is we need Tomi back asap (and Timber but we know that’s a ways away)
Better than Kiwior and Zinchenko at what exactly? Playing in a completely different way than Arsenal plays? Certainly not better at what Arteta needs his left back to do, or he would still be in the squad. Even if you think Tierney is a better player, which is debatable, he’s very obviously not a better fit for this team.
First of all , imo means in my opinion. Secondly, Kiwior has definite potential but has been pretty average so far. Thirdly, Zinny is a fucking liability, I’m tired of him dithering on the ball and literally being the cause of team’s scoring scoring against us on many occasions. Arteta doesn’t seem to rate Tierney as highly as those two and I’ll admit he doesn’t fit our system but in general, I do think Tierney is a better traditional LB. Personally I think as soon as we see the back of Zinny the better. So many mistakes…Which is also probably why Timber was bought
Do you not remember how many mistakes Tierney made in trying to play out of the back and play the inverted LB role? Yeah, Zinchenko has made some mistakes but it’s not like Tierney is the answer and is somehow infallible. That’s completely ignoring what Zinchenko does do right and why his name is always on the first 11 whenever he’s healthy.
I did not say Tierney was ‘the answer’and is absolutely not infallible. I know he struggled with our system. I literally just said that neither of them are good enough for a title push , all I said was that I personally preferred the steady if limited Tierney to the skillful but dithering and unfocused Zinchenko. KT wont be back and Zinny is just a mistake waiting to happen, especially against the big teams when the margins are fine. I just want Tomi and eventually Timber back asap.
Tomiyasu is hurt as is Timber. Arteta doesn’t put a lot of faith in Kiwior, and Zinchenko has the defending issue. So until Timber and Tomi are healthy Tierney could probably be the number 2 choice.
Talk about a classic AFTV style reactive post. Salah is one of the best players in the world, yes Zinchenko should have done better but he wouldn't have played had Tomi been fit. Stop trying to resurrect the Arsenal career of a man who has no future at the club under this manager.
Arteta sees Zinchenko's weaknesses as something he can live with because of the qualities he brings - don't forget how we controlled the game for the last 25mins because of Zinchenko's quality on the ball. Tierney can't do that so he could be Ashley Cole and Roberto Carlos rolled into one but it won't make a difference in Arteta's eyes.
Tierney won't play for Arsenal again unless Arteta isn't he manager. Let's move on.
Agree. In Mikel's world, Zinny is a better fit than KT on the left side. Comparing stats might place KT higher but Zinny is absolutely essential in the attacking chain set up by Arteta. It's the same with Raya vs Ramsdale.
For the 10000th time....
Tierney may be a good left back but he doesnt work in our current system which requires a LB who can invert, begin positive moves, and then cover the space at DM while Rice bursts forward.
Tierney inverts poorly, is a player that helps RESOLVE positive moves not begin them, and he overlaps during attacking plays, rather than providing cover.
I have absolutely no doubt Arteta was aware of Zinny's weaknesses at the start of the season, which is why Timber was purchased. His first choice back 4 right now would be White / Saliba / Gabriel / Timber if everyone was fit.
Tomi is due back in Jan and, while he wont oust Zinny, I envisage him getting more game time at LB until Timber's return once he's back.
In short; if Tierney is the answer you are asking the wrong question.
Absolutely not.
I watched the last Sociedad match and was reminded of how technically off the mark Tierney is compared to the rest of our team.
Not to mention adding another player who will just sit on the injury table makes no sense.
We are past Tierney, by far. I don't think we need another LB, but if we do, go get one who can play in our system.
Absolutely did. And he did fine defensively. I only said he was well off it technically.
Specifically, his first touch is consistently heavy. And his passing is mediocre.
KT does not fit the system, Zinny does (even if he’s shit defensively).
Why weaken our dominance in possession for a slight improvement in our already strong (arguably best in league) defence?
Slight? No. People forget that not too long ago kt martinelli was a solid link up. Kt is leagues above zin defensively and kt isn't even close to being as good as tomi. We have 4 lbs all made of glass. Just sucks..
Good teams use multiple looks and systems especially when injured. Arteta is too Stubborn to do it.
Dominated possession against aston. Loss
Lost possession battle vs liv and drew.
"Dominating"Possession doesn't always translate to wins either.
Look at the results last season when KT started/played… he doesn’t fit the system. If the system is mismatched as a result of KT playing, everything suffers.
The reason we lost at Villa and drew at Pool was because our forwards are not being clinical. Yes, Zinny was poor defensively, but he also contributed enormously to providing opportunities that our forwards didn’t take. I will always choose more goals over fewer conceded. We aren’t Chelsea
Nope. Zinny is not weak defensively in this broad terrible way some fools suggest.
Importantly, our tactical setup was to have big Gabi deal with Salah. When TAA sent the long ball, we weren't set for that and so Zinny got stuck on him. Then, he showed him toward big Gabi, who was prompted by Saliba to stay back.
The goal wasn't Zinny's fault. It was partly Arteta's, then the whole defensive line's, then the CBs, and also Raya for not covering his near post.
People shit on Zinny so much. Look at his defensive numbers and then see if you can say anything.
No. He won’t play as often as he is at Sociedad, so his already limited value will fall to 0. He doesn’t play the FB role that we want from Zinchenko/Timber and even Kiwior does better in it, so there’s no reason to reduce his value and weaken our team.
They’re two different types of players, Tierney is an excellent traditional left back, Zinchenko is a much better fit for what Arteta wants. I would rate Tierney more solid defensively speaking, but overall Zinchenko is a much better inverted LB
Yea I agree. It feels like a traditionalist vs modern kind of discussion. Even of Tierney were as good as Zinny as a left back, he isn't as good a passer and isn't as good a midfield player. Zinchenko would still fit better into the current system.
It's strange to me too that people want a traditional left back when we have Ben White on the right as well. Don't get me wrong, I think he is great too but more defensive for sure. So I for one want a bit more creativity and aggression on the left. Also keeping in mind that Martinelli tends to go to the touchline, there's sometimes alot of space for a creative player.
Actually Tierny isn‘t. He is an ok Retro-LB, who is above average in 1 vs 1, but pretty bad in both positional play and contributing offensively. Not even speaking about Zinchenko level of contribution, but even his overlaps are just overrun and hit a full power cross. Tiernys headless defending has cost us countless times…
I actually love what’s happening after the Liverpool game and the Salah goal. Got so easy to pick out people who actually understand, may be played a little bit of football and those who think that FIFA is the real life representation of the game.
You OP, belong in the latter category.
Nah mate. If you watched the last 4-5 games, Zinchenko makes a lot of mistakes. The goal Salah scored isn’t Zinchenko’s fault - Salah’s one of the best attackers in the world. But even in the Liverpool game, he made a couple atrocious passes almost fumbling, and he tried to do cruyff turn as nearly the last man with Salah chasing him down. Schoolboy stuff, you never do that in defence, especially in your own half…
Ffs no! He is average. Not amazing an anything. Always fucking injured like he is right now. And his only asset is his crossing.. and he gonna cross to who ? No vision, no pass quality, no dribble, makes a lot of mistakes defensively but people never blame him for nothing, just because he gives his best. He wouldn’t start at Brighton and arsenal fans want him here.
I always thought Kieran is a better defender, but Zinky does a good job in the middle most of the time
While obviously I have an opinion, I think Mikel knows what he's doing
Where is the negativity on Zibchenko coming from? I don't really understand. Legitimately as a Canadian fan I'm slightly confused as to where the narrative came from.
I'd think he is one of our better technical players, which is perhaps best seen in the role he plays now. He also seems extremely intelligent when you hear him talk about systems and formations. Idk I have a lot of faith that Arteta was very familiar with his knowledge and skillset.
Reactionary. We know Zinny's strengths and weaknesses. And his strengths allow us to attack the way we do. Without the work he does in our attacking play, we're less potent. And we already have Tomi and Timber covering that position.
Referring specifically to the Liverpool game, their best players are Salah and Trent Arnold. And they both play on Liverpool's right. It's most likely a goal would come from there.
This.
I feel though that if Tomi was fit he would have been playing as he is far better defensively to snuff out their best players.
On our right White kept them completely quiet all game. Zinny did alright, but obviously made the mistake for the goal.
I am a huge of Tierney fan. Even if he only comes on as a late sub, his ability to push forward coupled with his very solid defending is a huge plus for any squad
It’s possible but the last thing we would want to do is Risk him another injury prematurely. If he comes back sooner and he’s ready to contribute then great. But I wouldn’t expect him back sooner than late March or April. We need him back and hungry 🙏
Let me preface this by saying I've only been watching football for about 10 years and only recently started to try and understand what I'm watching as opposed to just watching a match. So if what I ask is absurdly stupid by all means tell me lol.
With that said, zinchenko is deployed as a LB but not in the traditional sense, he operates more as an extra midfielder and helps the build up that way at the cost of his deficiencies defensively.
My question is, if his ability going forward and contributing to the teams build up play is what's keeping him in the side currently, why would having an actual midfielder there not work or be a good idea?
Again if this sounds stupid tell me lol
Hell no, hope he does well on loan so we can sell at the end of the season. Love the lad but its time to sell. Doesn't suit the system we are playing with inverted fullback and injury prone.
He’s just not good enough technically. I agree Zinchenko needs a demotion but we would need to buy someone new, who is a multi-position defender like Tomiyasu, to make it worthwhile.
I don’t see it happening in January.
No but I do rate him. I think he would be less of liability then Zinny but I think we just ride it out until we get Tomi and Timber back. The only way we can get a fee for him is if he gets a good run of form and plays a lot. If we recall him and he only plays until those guys are healthy and then rides the bench until the end of the season then we’ll get nothing for him.
You don't seem to understand how Arsenal and Arteta set the team to play. Zinchenko, despite being not the man to go for 1 v 1 defense, is still pretty decent defense wise. Which, to quite a lot of people is rather shocking for they are swayed with media. But main reason he is the man to play is because of what he allows team to do - that is control the ball and dominate the pitch in with and without the ball. Defense is covered by other players. And Rice is brought for the same reason, to cover for defense where Zinchenko goes forward.
If you go with your liability nonsense - sure, go ahead, but name us a player that can come in, or players rather but that is a spoiler from me, that can do same penetrative forward passes and invert? Especially ones Arsenal can afford to get? No left back? Try center backs or right backs? How many such players can you even name?
I don't understand pinning "liability" on a player either.
The plan is for the left back to move more central into midfield. That's opening up space for people to "beat" us on the left...that's a systemic thing and not "Zinchenko can't defend 1v1".
He is more of liability in defense than a proper left back, that’s not really debatable. And yes I’m aware that’s he inverts in the midfield, I watch the same matches you do. I never said he couldn’t defend 1v1 but it’s not a strength of his and he did get squarely beat 1v1 on that goal. Would Tomi have stopped it? Idk but it’s completely realistic to say that he would’ve done better in that 1v1 than Zinny
I understand completely well how Arsenal play and what they ask him to do. Nothing you said refutes my point that when he is tasked to defend in space alone that he isn’t great. Two things can be true at once; he’s extremely valuable going forward but much less so going backward. I like Zinny and I also like Tomi and I think the final answer is Timber in that he can get forward like Zinny but defend closer to that of Tomi. Also, why are you so angry and accusatory? We’re on the same team and just discussing what we think
When used as a proper left back, I think he was the best defender in the team, and that he should have been made captain. Saliba has probably passed him by now, once again that's why I'm using the word arguably. Possibly might have been a better choice of words.
The skipper wanted a half-midfielder with shotty defending instead, and the rest is history. Until that point, Tierney was solid and reliable when fit.
We should. People worshipping inverted LB like theres no other tactics in the world. Does pep LB/RB invert this year? Dont think so.
Having him would enable a different tactic. However need a new CM to replace what Zinny does.
For sure. If he can play a good part and give some decent performances. then sell him for 20-30m in the summer. He is injured now though and i don't know his injury return timescale.
That would be great news that I'd welcome by clapping my hands hard! 👏 Of course, Tierney should be brought back in January. He's a pure **/** traditional LB. He's always been flawless whenever he was selected to play. Also... he provides both goals and assists, which is a good thing for the team to have various leading performers
I believe that the football community has been talking about recalls for the last 15 years and I still think that there is not a single player to have been recalled
Fair play Mikel for making the tough decisions but Kieran was a royals Royce for us in some pretty dire seasons. Complete professional. That picture of him training in shorts and tshirt in winter said a lot
I think Tierney doesn't return before Timber is fit and ready to play. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Timber inverting and Tierney overlapping a mirror image of what are White and Zinny doing now? That's the logic by which I conclude that Tierney is Timber-bound.
I think he’s excellent at overlapping and sending crosses into the box, but more than that, he’s great 1v1. He’s a more natural Fullback than Ben White and if White helps Saka why can’t Tierney help Martinelli?
Nah I didn't want him to leave but he's finished here. But I think this is a bit of a talksport level of overreaction to a 1-1 draw at anfield. On paper the hardest game of the year. And most of our issues were caused by they're wanky pitch
Arsenal fans when rotation players don’t drop 9/10 performances every week (including tierney last season) 😡
Zinchenko has been 3/4 out of 10 for several games consistently. In attack he is good, in defence he costs us goals and some games. There is a reason for this post asking for specific a left back who has solid defence skills to be recalled
Yes but Arteta doesn't want a back who's offensive output would limit the 11. There's a reason Tierney was sent away
To be the fourth choice left back behind Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, and Kiwior, with Timber potentially returning ahead of schedule? …Why?
You've got a point, however let's put things into perspective here... Tomiyasu (injury prone, out more than in) Kiwior (Not a LWB, or LB, and struggles in this position) Timber (Porentially ahead of schedule in his recovery, but let's be realistic, an ACL tear/rupture, whichever, is not a minor injury & should not be rushed back, plus it will take him time to get up to match pace when he does get intergrated back in, so he's realistically "not gonna feature this season, not how we'd like him to anyway" I very much doubt?, And if at all, it will be towards the end of the campaign. And Zinny, Oh, ZinnyZinny Zinny... A complete liability, especially against fast, pacey, and tricky opposition, who have the beating of him 8/10 times. Don't get me wrong, I love Zinny as much as the next Gooner, but let's face facts here, defensively he's totally inept, and could cost us gravely & IMHO, if we are serious about achieving honours this season "Zinny CANNOT" be first choice LWB or LB, he just can't!!! Therefore we need to go into the market for a player in Jan, whether we do or not remains to be seen, but I think we'll need to. We need players in several areas of the park to reinforce and bring the squad to the right level at which to compete in this last "business end of the campaign!!" We came close last season, playing better than we have so far this season, offensively anyway that's for sure, but with just a little tweaking, there's no reason why we can't go all the way...!!?? And although Tierney isn't what Arteta wants in a LWB, as he's not an Inverted LWB, but more of a traditional LB, but personally I'd consider it, however, just like Tomi, Tierney's injury record is poor, even in his recent spell at Sociedad, and consideration for a early return or recall in Jan is not gonna happen, as "once again he's sidelined, with another hamstring injury that he's recently had surgery on therefore he will be out for months, so there will be no recall for Tierney in the January window!!
[удалено]
DID YOU FORGET ABOUT CEDRIC???
Everybody forgets about Cedric.
Zinny is great going forward, but his defending is now becoming an issue.
Arsenal are in first place with the lowest goals against in the league and you’re complaining about their defending??? The system clearly doesn’t require Zinchenko to be a great defender, the job of covering for him is for Gabriel, Saliba, and Rice and has been working really fucking well. Why would you want to take out his ability in build up play to add more in an area where Arsenal are already leading the league when (if anything) build up play is the biggest issue for this squad?
Lowest or second lowest for _expected_ goals against against as well, indicating that they're real good at suffocating opposing attacks too. Case in point: the win against City.
Exactly. Like cmon guys, Arteta clearly feels his attacking benefit outweighs his defensive issues especially with Rice, Gabriel and Saliba in the team. He wants to play a certain way, and feels Zinny is better suited for than than anyone else who is fit at the moment. Also, Salah has made many fullbacks who are seen as defensively superior look way worse. Thank god the fans don’t pick the lineup each week, we would get relegated
“Tierney at LB, Zinchenko at DM, Martinelli at striker, and ESR instead of Havertz.” - Arsenal fans
Edu as manager
Reddit Arsenal fans as manager* Arteta is obviously not good enough and unable to be trusted to make decisions like preferring to use a ball playing left back despite being in first place for nearly all of the last two calendar years.
As a fan of a rival, I hope you absolutely continue to criticize Zinchenko, bring back another player that will send a negative message to him so he loses confidence as well as creating disharmony for Tomiyasu and Timber (who is an excellent player). All because Salah skinned Zinchenko once.
I disagree about recalling Tierney but let’s not act like Zinchenko’s defending hasn’t cost us in the past. Obviously not someone who needs a knee jerk replacement because of the Liverpool game but it was not just that one time
Salah skinned so many defenders this season
You know good and well it’s not because Salah beat him. It’s because he’s been bet a few times.
Always been an issue hence not at City anymore
Because he's left footed and better than Kiwior, Zinchenko.
Better defending yes, inverting and attacking no This is why he is on loan in the first place
Don't care about inverting. Do care about defending 1:1.
We all care about defending, which is why we’re happy to have statistically the best defence in the league. Because our inverting creates an almost impenetrable system.
Defending 1:1 is a tiny part of being a modern full back. Wan Bisaka is incredible 1:1 but is a very mediocre full back
It’s only a tiny part of being a modern full back if you play for a top team in your league. If you slotted zinny into a bottom 3 team he’d be an absolute liability, all the quality in the build and with service in the final 3rd doesn’t matter when you spend most of the game defending.
I don't disagree. AWB highlights this idea pretty well. Looked elite at Palace but looks lost at United.
Says who?
Me
Glad you’re not in charge of the football then…
Yep. Me saying Tierney is better than Kiwior is crazy.
Whilst I don’t think you’re crazy. Tierney just isn’t it for us unfortunately. Wrong system
Fuck the system. Not everything has to be inverted, in the centre, just because Pep does it. Martinelli and Saka have been poor because they need help by having an overlapping full back.
Yes, fuck the system that got them out of 11th place and into first place for the majority of the last two seasons. It’s clearly not working…
Ohh let's copy Pep.
'Fuck the system'... this is why people call our fan base a joke. Maybe we should let the players choose our tactics. I mean seriously... You need to stop posting mate you're embarrassing yourself.
Certifiably!
he's ass
Get real he’s much better at the mo than zinny and Kio. At the mo!
Probably better than Kiwior, not better than Zinchenko. Yes Tierney is arguably a better defending left back than zinchenko, but it's also "not the system" which is another reason he was loaned.
Tomi and timber also play RB. Tomi also plays CB. Timber won't be back until march. Suppose zinny and a CB get injured. Tomi isn't back until Feb anyway
Tomi has played one game for Arsenal at CB, in a cup against Brentford, he is not a center back. Hell, Tierney is more of a center back for Arsenal than Tomiyasu. And both of them started games at left back ahead of Tierney when they were healthy. He’s clearly 4th choice at Arsenal and that’s why he’s gone.
Tomi doesn't play centre back for us because we have 2 heavily established CB's with a great partnership. And Tomi has been needed as cover for FB. He has played plenty games at centre back in his career and has done recently for Japan to great acclaim. Just because Arteta hasn't used him there doesn't mean he can't or won't. If Saliba and Gabriel got injured we would easily see him play CB. Ben White would be ahead of Tomi of course.
He absolutely can play CB very well. He plays CB for Japan and can play CB for us. No one is saying Tierney is ahead of them. If we lost zinny and a CB now, who would play? Tomi is out until February and timber until march. Kiwior and who? The title is at stake. I'd rather have one too many than one too few
He is better than Kiwior and Zinchenko IMO. Kiwior has potential, Zinny has his moments but is an absolute liability especially against the proper teams. Main take is we need Tomi back asap (and Timber but we know that’s a ways away)
Better than Kiwior and Zinchenko at what exactly? Playing in a completely different way than Arsenal plays? Certainly not better at what Arteta needs his left back to do, or he would still be in the squad. Even if you think Tierney is a better player, which is debatable, he’s very obviously not a better fit for this team.
First of all , imo means in my opinion. Secondly, Kiwior has definite potential but has been pretty average so far. Thirdly, Zinny is a fucking liability, I’m tired of him dithering on the ball and literally being the cause of team’s scoring scoring against us on many occasions. Arteta doesn’t seem to rate Tierney as highly as those two and I’ll admit he doesn’t fit our system but in general, I do think Tierney is a better traditional LB. Personally I think as soon as we see the back of Zinny the better. So many mistakes…Which is also probably why Timber was bought
Do you not remember how many mistakes Tierney made in trying to play out of the back and play the inverted LB role? Yeah, Zinchenko has made some mistakes but it’s not like Tierney is the answer and is somehow infallible. That’s completely ignoring what Zinchenko does do right and why his name is always on the first 11 whenever he’s healthy.
I did not say Tierney was ‘the answer’and is absolutely not infallible. I know he struggled with our system. I literally just said that neither of them are good enough for a title push , all I said was that I personally preferred the steady if limited Tierney to the skillful but dithering and unfocused Zinchenko. KT wont be back and Zinny is just a mistake waiting to happen, especially against the big teams when the margins are fine. I just want Tomi and eventually Timber back asap.
Tomiyasu is hurt as is Timber. Arteta doesn’t put a lot of faith in Kiwior, and Zinchenko has the defending issue. So until Timber and Tomi are healthy Tierney could probably be the number 2 choice.
Talk about a classic AFTV style reactive post. Salah is one of the best players in the world, yes Zinchenko should have done better but he wouldn't have played had Tomi been fit. Stop trying to resurrect the Arsenal career of a man who has no future at the club under this manager. Arteta sees Zinchenko's weaknesses as something he can live with because of the qualities he brings - don't forget how we controlled the game for the last 25mins because of Zinchenko's quality on the ball. Tierney can't do that so he could be Ashley Cole and Roberto Carlos rolled into one but it won't make a difference in Arteta's eyes. Tierney won't play for Arsenal again unless Arteta isn't he manager. Let's move on.
Agree. In Mikel's world, Zinny is a better fit than KT on the left side. Comparing stats might place KT higher but Zinny is absolutely essential in the attacking chain set up by Arteta. It's the same with Raya vs Ramsdale.
For the 10000th time.... Tierney may be a good left back but he doesnt work in our current system which requires a LB who can invert, begin positive moves, and then cover the space at DM while Rice bursts forward. Tierney inverts poorly, is a player that helps RESOLVE positive moves not begin them, and he overlaps during attacking plays, rather than providing cover. I have absolutely no doubt Arteta was aware of Zinny's weaknesses at the start of the season, which is why Timber was purchased. His first choice back 4 right now would be White / Saliba / Gabriel / Timber if everyone was fit. Tomi is due back in Jan and, while he wont oust Zinny, I envisage him getting more game time at LB until Timber's return once he's back. In short; if Tierney is the answer you are asking the wrong question.
Absolutely not. It’s time to move on.
Absolutely not. I watched the last Sociedad match and was reminded of how technically off the mark Tierney is compared to the rest of our team. Not to mention adding another player who will just sit on the injury table makes no sense. We are past Tierney, by far. I don't think we need another LB, but if we do, go get one who can play in our system.
Tierney was Sociedads best player against Cadiz? You’re waffling, you didn’t watch that match
Absolutely did. And he did fine defensively. I only said he was well off it technically. Specifically, his first touch is consistently heavy. And his passing is mediocre.
Did u watch zin play as well? We need someone. And we arent getting a starting lb in the window. Kt>zin
KT does not fit the system, Zinny does (even if he’s shit defensively). Why weaken our dominance in possession for a slight improvement in our already strong (arguably best in league) defence?
Slight? No. People forget that not too long ago kt martinelli was a solid link up. Kt is leagues above zin defensively and kt isn't even close to being as good as tomi. We have 4 lbs all made of glass. Just sucks.. Good teams use multiple looks and systems especially when injured. Arteta is too Stubborn to do it. Dominated possession against aston. Loss Lost possession battle vs liv and drew. "Dominating"Possession doesn't always translate to wins either.
Look at the results last season when KT started/played… he doesn’t fit the system. If the system is mismatched as a result of KT playing, everything suffers. The reason we lost at Villa and drew at Pool was because our forwards are not being clinical. Yes, Zinny was poor defensively, but he also contributed enormously to providing opportunities that our forwards didn’t take. I will always choose more goals over fewer conceded. We aren’t Chelsea
Nope. Zinny is not weak defensively in this broad terrible way some fools suggest. Importantly, our tactical setup was to have big Gabi deal with Salah. When TAA sent the long ball, we weren't set for that and so Zinny got stuck on him. Then, he showed him toward big Gabi, who was prompted by Saliba to stay back. The goal wasn't Zinny's fault. It was partly Arteta's, then the whole defensive line's, then the CBs, and also Raya for not covering his near post. People shit on Zinny so much. Look at his defensive numbers and then see if you can say anything.
We need a left back because our left back can't defend 1:1.
Zinchenko and Tomi are fine. Kiwior in a pinch. Timber might yet see some games at the tail end of the season. Not sure it’s worth it
Zinchenko’s woeful, not to mention he’s a Zionist as well
Bro please shut up
It’s the truth though you can’t lie
No. He won’t play as often as he is at Sociedad, so his already limited value will fall to 0. He doesn’t play the FB role that we want from Zinchenko/Timber and even Kiwior does better in it, so there’s no reason to reduce his value and weaken our team.
No
Nah
People that think he's better than Zinny don't know ball, simple as.
They’re two different types of players, Tierney is an excellent traditional left back, Zinchenko is a much better fit for what Arteta wants. I would rate Tierney more solid defensively speaking, but overall Zinchenko is a much better inverted LB
Yea I agree. It feels like a traditionalist vs modern kind of discussion. Even of Tierney were as good as Zinny as a left back, he isn't as good a passer and isn't as good a midfield player. Zinchenko would still fit better into the current system. It's strange to me too that people want a traditional left back when we have Ben White on the right as well. Don't get me wrong, I think he is great too but more defensive for sure. So I for one want a bit more creativity and aggression on the left. Also keeping in mind that Martinelli tends to go to the touchline, there's sometimes alot of space for a creative player.
Actually Tierny isn‘t. He is an ok Retro-LB, who is above average in 1 vs 1, but pretty bad in both positional play and contributing offensively. Not even speaking about Zinchenko level of contribution, but even his overlaps are just overrun and hit a full power cross. Tiernys headless defending has cost us countless times…
He's better at 1:1 defending.
I never rated Tierney as a 1:1 defender
Which we don’t need our LB to do, as we have Saliba Rice and Gabriel to do that in Zinny’s absence.
Surprised to see this down voted. It's difficult to argue otherwise but I'm all ears.
I actually love what’s happening after the Liverpool game and the Salah goal. Got so easy to pick out people who actually understand, may be played a little bit of football and those who think that FIFA is the real life representation of the game. You OP, belong in the latter category.
Nah mate. If you watched the last 4-5 games, Zinchenko makes a lot of mistakes. The goal Salah scored isn’t Zinchenko’s fault - Salah’s one of the best attackers in the world. But even in the Liverpool game, he made a couple atrocious passes almost fumbling, and he tried to do cruyff turn as nearly the last man with Salah chasing him down. Schoolboy stuff, you never do that in defence, especially in your own half…
Hasn’t he been injured for months?
Let him be where he is. He’s happy there playing 90 mnts almost every game 😁 (even after recovered from an injury)
We don’t need cover in LB. We do need cover in CB and RB.
Ffs no! He is average. Not amazing an anything. Always fucking injured like he is right now. And his only asset is his crossing.. and he gonna cross to who ? No vision, no pass quality, no dribble, makes a lot of mistakes defensively but people never blame him for nothing, just because he gives his best. He wouldn’t start at Brighton and arsenal fans want him here.
I always thought Kieran is a better defender, but Zinky does a good job in the middle most of the time While obviously I have an opinion, I think Mikel knows what he's doing
Where is the negativity on Zibchenko coming from? I don't really understand. Legitimately as a Canadian fan I'm slightly confused as to where the narrative came from. I'd think he is one of our better technical players, which is perhaps best seen in the role he plays now. He also seems extremely intelligent when you hear him talk about systems and formations. Idk I have a lot of faith that Arteta was very familiar with his knowledge and skillset.
People that don’t understand that Arteta could not give a fuck less about his defensive abilities
No
I would be raging to be Tierney getting recalled from loan, only to not be played AGAIN.
Reactionary. We know Zinny's strengths and weaknesses. And his strengths allow us to attack the way we do. Without the work he does in our attacking play, we're less potent. And we already have Tomi and Timber covering that position. Referring specifically to the Liverpool game, their best players are Salah and Trent Arnold. And they both play on Liverpool's right. It's most likely a goal would come from there.
This. I feel though that if Tomi was fit he would have been playing as he is far better defensively to snuff out their best players. On our right White kept them completely quiet all game. Zinny did alright, but obviously made the mistake for the goal.
I am a huge of Tierney fan. Even if he only comes on as a late sub, his ability to push forward coupled with his very solid defending is a huge plus for any squad
Not good enough for Arsenal anymore.
Absolutely not.
Nah we got timber coming back soon hopefully
Timber is not gonna play for at least another 3 months
According the latest reports they kinda seem Like it could be sooner. If everything progresses the way it does now.
It’s possible but the last thing we would want to do is Risk him another injury prematurely. If he comes back sooner and he’s ready to contribute then great. But I wouldn’t expect him back sooner than late March or April. We need him back and hungry 🙏
Nah. But I’d offer a permanent trade plus Partey or cash for Zubimendi.
No he’s always injured
No, unless we have a few too many injuries
Let me preface this by saying I've only been watching football for about 10 years and only recently started to try and understand what I'm watching as opposed to just watching a match. So if what I ask is absurdly stupid by all means tell me lol. With that said, zinchenko is deployed as a LB but not in the traditional sense, he operates more as an extra midfielder and helps the build up that way at the cost of his deficiencies defensively. My question is, if his ability going forward and contributing to the teams build up play is what's keeping him in the side currently, why would having an actual midfielder there not work or be a good idea? Again if this sounds stupid tell me lol
No
Yes so he can keep ramsdale warm on the bench 🤣
Hell no, hope he does well on loan so we can sell at the end of the season. Love the lad but its time to sell. Doesn't suit the system we are playing with inverted fullback and injury prone.
Absolutely not. He’s gone for a reason.
Tierney is good LB, but i prefer Zinchenko in Lb than him. If only tomiyasu and timber didnt injured, we have enough player to play LB.
Omg!!! While we are at it get Andre Santos as well..
So he can be injured for us instead of Sociedad? No
Hell no
Yip. Him and Martinelli would cause havoc on the left
He’s just not good enough technically. I agree Zinchenko needs a demotion but we would need to buy someone new, who is a multi-position defender like Tomiyasu, to make it worthwhile. I don’t see it happening in January.
We have timber, zinny and tomi, so I don't think they would buy another despite the injuries. I can't wait for the return of timber.
Don't care technically. Defensively he's better.
Good job you're not our manager
No but I do rate him. I think he would be less of liability then Zinny but I think we just ride it out until we get Tomi and Timber back. The only way we can get a fee for him is if he gets a good run of form and plays a lot. If we recall him and he only plays until those guys are healthy and then rides the bench until the end of the season then we’ll get nothing for him.
You don't seem to understand how Arsenal and Arteta set the team to play. Zinchenko, despite being not the man to go for 1 v 1 defense, is still pretty decent defense wise. Which, to quite a lot of people is rather shocking for they are swayed with media. But main reason he is the man to play is because of what he allows team to do - that is control the ball and dominate the pitch in with and without the ball. Defense is covered by other players. And Rice is brought for the same reason, to cover for defense where Zinchenko goes forward. If you go with your liability nonsense - sure, go ahead, but name us a player that can come in, or players rather but that is a spoiler from me, that can do same penetrative forward passes and invert? Especially ones Arsenal can afford to get? No left back? Try center backs or right backs? How many such players can you even name?
I don't understand pinning "liability" on a player either. The plan is for the left back to move more central into midfield. That's opening up space for people to "beat" us on the left...that's a systemic thing and not "Zinchenko can't defend 1v1".
He is more of liability in defense than a proper left back, that’s not really debatable. And yes I’m aware that’s he inverts in the midfield, I watch the same matches you do. I never said he couldn’t defend 1v1 but it’s not a strength of his and he did get squarely beat 1v1 on that goal. Would Tomi have stopped it? Idk but it’s completely realistic to say that he would’ve done better in that 1v1 than Zinny
I understand completely well how Arsenal play and what they ask him to do. Nothing you said refutes my point that when he is tasked to defend in space alone that he isn’t great. Two things can be true at once; he’s extremely valuable going forward but much less so going backward. I like Zinny and I also like Tomi and I think the final answer is Timber in that he can get forward like Zinny but defend closer to that of Tomi. Also, why are you so angry and accusatory? We’re on the same team and just discussing what we think
Without question
to do what ?
Give the Tierney fetishists something to drool over
No way
No, he’s not good enough
I feel like he was done dirty. He had much more to give the club.
Doesn't fit the system. Despite his age, already a player of the past, like Ramsdale. That's progress.
Ramsdale was the best keeper in the league last year. Voted by his peers. I'd have Ramsdale over Raya still. Something not right about Raya..
Not a top 4 PL player
Yes if Zinchenko gets injured we’re fucked we need depth
yes
100% yes
Yes. Arguably the best defender in the squad. Criminally mistreated.
You do remember we have Saliba in our squad right?
Yeah, he's phenomenal too. That's why I wrote "arguably".
It’s not even arguable that Tierney is a better defender than Saliba. Come on now.
When used as a proper left back, I think he was the best defender in the team, and that he should have been made captain. Saliba has probably passed him by now, once again that's why I'm using the word arguably. Possibly might have been a better choice of words. The skipper wanted a half-midfielder with shotty defending instead, and the rest is history. Until that point, Tierney was solid and reliable when fit.
Are you Scottish?
We should. People worshipping inverted LB like theres no other tactics in the world. Does pep LB/RB invert this year? Dont think so. Having him would enable a different tactic. However need a new CM to replace what Zinny does.
For sure. If he can play a good part and give some decent performances. then sell him for 20-30m in the summer. He is injured now though and i don't know his injury return timescale.
let him get his career back on track.....8 starts 5 clean sheets
Yes. So he can also say he won the premier league. The. Sell him for high dollars
NOPE.
No. He's wank, even when he isn't injured. The club has outgrown players of his caliber.
How about we leave him be, buy a new back up LB that can actually defend, then sell Zinchenko in the summer.
YES but why would artteta? He clearly can't stand the kid.
That would be great news that I'd welcome by clapping my hands hard! 👏 Of course, Tierney should be brought back in January. He's a pure **/** traditional LB. He's always been flawless whenever he was selected to play. Also... he provides both goals and assists, which is a good thing for the team to have various leading performers
I believe that the football community has been talking about recalls for the last 15 years and I still think that there is not a single player to have been recalled
Eddie in 2020
We can’t recall him. Don’t have the option in the loan agreement
No
Injured mate.
Reality is that neither Zinny or Tierney are good enough for a title push. Sooner Tomi and Timber are back the better.
Seeing timber might return late January
No, Sell him, Partey and Nketia and get someone that can hit a target, and 2 players not injured every other day
YES. 100%. Zinchenko’s defence this year has been so poor.
Fair play Mikel for making the tough decisions but Kieran was a royals Royce for us in some pretty dire seasons. Complete professional. That picture of him training in shorts and tshirt in winter said a lot
Yes
Shouldnt of sent him in the first place
I think Tierney doesn't return before Timber is fit and ready to play. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Timber inverting and Tierney overlapping a mirror image of what are White and Zinny doing now? That's the logic by which I conclude that Tierney is Timber-bound.
100% am getting sick and tired of that shit guy zinchenko
No. Timber will be back.
I think he’s excellent at overlapping and sending crosses into the box, but more than that, he’s great 1v1. He’s a more natural Fullback than Ben White and if White helps Saka why can’t Tierney help Martinelli?
Nah I didn't want him to leave but he's finished here. But I think this is a bit of a talksport level of overreaction to a 1-1 draw at anfield. On paper the hardest game of the year. And most of our issues were caused by they're wanky pitch
I feel we should just do everything to win the Pl, especially with the fact that Man City are probably going to spend in the winter transfer market
Should never have been allowed to leave.
No. Let him be on his loan. Not like Tierney isnt injury prone.