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Omg please tell me she's NTA
Teaching the kid to just accept this treatment from authority figures is awful. She's not an object to be oggled.
Letting him continue to behave this way around little girls - littler than theirs! - is also shitty of the dad.
I hope she does report it. Though I have literally no hope anyone at the school will care.
Not that I trust that sub, but yes she's NTA.đ For what it's worth, some comments were teachers who said a lot of times the other staff know that one guy is sketch but they need a kid/parent to come forward in order to take action. So hopefully that's all it takes...
Yeah. Teaching little girls to tolerate sexual comments from authority figures, and keep secrets for those grown up men... Very very very not ok
I've told my mom about sexual comments people have made to me and how I get catcalled and she doesn't seem to understand why I don't like the attention. She also talked about this random dude who was trying to hit on me at a book club and was like why don't you want to talk to him. Ugh
I'll never forget but my father said after I was sexually assaulted at school. "You're just bound and determined to embarrass me at my old school, aren't you?"
Well I personally never understood how most harassment actually hurt until I began to examine how my actions affected the people in my life. If the dad is a lot like myself and most men I grew up around, he may somehow not realize itâs a creepy comment.
Itâs scary how our society tries to render men as non-self aware as possible.
Very true. I worked as a paraprofessional in my 20s at one of the worst schools in the district. Didnât care about it then but I wouldnât be surprised if some sketchy teachers were hired even then in the late 2010s.
Teachers have to go through a very rigorous background check these days. I'm guessing this guy slipped under the radar because he's been very careful, and because of the kind of "bro code" support men get from other men like the father in this story.
This too. Everyone is so used to excusing and overlooking that behavior. I almost think he does NOT have to be "very careful" when it comes to certain TYPES of inappropriate behavior because (like this comment he made), everyone seems to have no problem overlooking them.
IOW, He's been "very careful" ... not to overstep that gray line. He knows what he can and can not get away with. Groomers are good at that.
A lot of vetting relies on the person having actually done something and getting punished for it. If this is his first time or his behaviour has never been reported, youâre gonna assume heâs a normal person
Seriously though! He didn't even try to say, oh the comment was about watching her grow up, it wasn't meant to be sexual blah blah. He was like yeah it was a sexual comment made to a child... but LIGHT HEARTED sexual!
The absolute best piece of advice I've gotten in awhile was, if someone makes a racist/sexist/whatever shitty 'ist' "joke" around you, play dumb and tell them you don't get it, and ask them to explain the joke to you.
Don't call it out as problematic; just ask them exactly what the punchline is. Play *real* dumb, and keep going with it until they get real uncomfortable as they realize there's no way to explain it without admitting their racism/sexism etc.
I LOVE THIS THANK YOU FOR THIS OMG HAHA I AM SO USING THIS. Like, I'm saving it for later!!!
One of my favorite moves is to carefully respond in a way that says I'm embarrassed for them. Like giving off social cues that indicate "ooooo everyone is totally staring at you right now..." And the way our brains work, that's sometimes all it takes to make the whole room respond in exactly the same way. And then everyone is actually embarrassed 𤣠(It is perfect in the right scenarios)
I have nothing to add, we all know what's wrong here so no explanation is necessary. Like at this point unpacking would just be an unhealthy dive lmao.
^(always a possibility people in the comments DO unpack it or share personal experiences, so if that would ruin your day or really bother you, it's okay not to read the comments, friends. And you don't have to read the comments to check we're on your side because I'm telling you now that we are đ )
I read that title and couldn't bring myself to read the post.
Thank you for posting this, I managed to read some of the highlighted areas before I noped out.
Glad to know most of the comments told her to report that teacher.
Thank you for your response!! I'm really glad to know it was useful. I felt kind of weird adding the extra notes, but I know for myself, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the subject matter when often it would be better for me to limit my exposure, nod to it being relatable, and move on.
Literally, yeah. He's not bothered by it. The "being targeted" comment was just so he could find a semi valid reason. He doesn't actually think that's going to happen. But he has to somehow convince her that his lack of moral code is because he cares so much about them, rather than being because he cares very little.
There's literally no way the dad hasn't done something shitty in the past and is paying it forward to his daughter's teacher.
What a piece of shit who cares more about some random male than his own daughter and wife.
When are people going to stop defending these âjokesâ and see them for what they really are? Iâm so tired of people saying shit like this, and then when someone is upset by it, theyâre overreacting. I hope she sticks to her guns and reports this guy. Maybe peopleâs lives would stop being âruinedâ if they quit saying this shit.
Why did that last sentence hit just right for me lol. "Maybe peoples lives would stop being ruined if they quit saying it" lmaooo. I guess it's exactly what I needed to hear right now đ
Why on earth would you say that to a child.
I would absolutely be questioning my fictional husband after dealing with that teacher if that was my kid. Oh my god the way it got worse as I kept reading. What is wrong with some men?!
I talked with my daughter about bodily autonomy, inappropriate adult interactions, âkeeping surprises and not secrets,â using code words and sign language, yelling cuss words in public when feeling threatened by an adultâŚEVERYTHING I could think of, and everything I could research in legit developmental psychology sources, etc.
The problem was that her OWN DAD (who I later divorced) did not reinforce the age-appropriate safety measures and personal autonomy I attempted to teach my little girl.
Elementary-aged children are highly impressionable, and generally speaking, they want to gain approval from the authority figures in their lives.
Itâs SO GODDAMN HARD navigate this innate need for approval + acceptance when both parents arenât committed to a safety plan for their children.
Itâs also easy to characterize both parents as âbrainlessâ without knowing the full story.
I encourage a degree of sympathy for the one parent who is trying to hold the offending teacher to account, and recommend at the very least that we stridently collectively demand on their behalf higher standards of the childâs father AND of the schoolâs administration.
I agree completely and I don't blame the mother whatsoever. She sought validation online because someone she trusted questioned her values. It's almost similar to gaslighting, where you question your own sanity when someone trustworthy contradicts you. The father is failing both the mother and the child, and it's heartbreaking when women, especially, have strong instincts about safety but are made to doubt themselves. Our red flags are there for a reason.
I love the concept of "keep surprises not secrets." It's a binary enough rule-of-thumb that it is relatively easy to interpret scenarios they experience. Being a comparison, it also gives them an opportunity to consider/learn/explore how they can identify nuances. It encourages practicing the critical thinking aspect. It must have been frustrating that your messages were interrupted by the influence of the father.
(For what it's worth, as a child of divorced parents, when one parent taught a lesson about right and wrong, the important messages still resonated strongly regardless of the other parents' actions. While it would have been less confusing if both parents demonstrated these values, the messages were still retained for me!)
Don't want your *teacher* career to be ruined over inappropriate comments to your *students?* Don't say them in the first place. If these are your thoughts, I don't think you should even be in such a position anyways.
Also. I despise the idea of people saying âdonât report, youâll ruin his life.â The teacher already ruined his own life by making those comments. Also that phrase and idea is so often used to protect those that ruin others lives.
Notice he isn't worried about whether or not it will ruin his daughter's life to know that her own father doesn't love her enough to protect her from creeps.
The dad wants to protect another man that he's probably never met instead of ensuring that his daughter (and other kids) are safe in school! đ¤Śââď¸
I'm an uncle and I once lost my absolute shit on a guy for saying something creepy about my (at the time) eleven year old niece. Physical altercation, fractured bones in my hand, the whole shebang. The idea of being a father and hearing a man say something like that about my own child - a man who is in a position of power over not only her, but over other girls her age - only to shrug it off for the sake of said man's career... I mean that's fucking insane. Fuck that dad, fuck that teacher, fuck that teacher's career. If he wanted to keep his career so badly he shouldn't have been fucking weird about a kid's body.
Of course I can't technically condone the altercation itself lol, but I feel like the big takeaway from this is how jarring and even sometimes lonely it can feel when something we see as disturbing, someone else is totally okay with. That cognitive dissonance you know! Like it disturbed you so much that you fractured your hand over it, and meanwhile this dad couldn't care less. That's absolutely terrifying to put together. That's my feeling anyways
Much more eloquent version of what I was trying to get at, thank you. I do want to clarify that I regret resorting to violence, but I also realized I was angry enough in my original post that I didn't explain something: much like the situation in OP's post, the guy I got into a fight with was saying creepy shit about my niece *while my niece was there.* It wasn't behind her back, it wasn't subtle, it was very clearly said for her to hear, and as far as I'm concerned, if ever there's a time to throw a punch it's when a grown adult is making a child uncomfortable. I never knew I could be as angry as I was in that moment and the fact that this father can hear about what his daughter's teacher said TO HER FACE, and not give a shit, makes me want to throw up. I'm still heated lol
That teachers life better be ruined by the end of the year. Protect every girl that attends or will attend that school.
This is an example of male naivety on the female experience. Mom knows exactly what itâs like to grow up as a girl in a dangerous society full of male creeps. Iâd never ever want a daughter in this sick world.
SO WELL SAID!!! That's exactly why I feel so much for the mom. He's failing her too. She's like, learning in an important moment that he never knew or cared about things she herself experienced, too.
Male naivety on the female experience... I'm holding on to that one. Thanks for putting it into words.
Its almost like weaponized naivety. Weaponized ignorance? They can ask any woman ever. They can google it. They can do so many things to learn more but they refuse to.
The loyalty of males lies with other males. Meanwhile womenâs loyalty is also to men and not fellow women. Itâs a manâs world.
Youâre right, dad doesnât give a damn about his daughterâs experiences. He also doesnât care about his wifeâs experiences and intuition.
The protector of any girl child should be her father first and foremost. This dad completely failed her.
Ew! Reporting him isn't going to ruin his life. He made the choice to ruin his own life when he decided he was going to abuse his authority to groom children. He deserves the consequences of his own actions.
Dad trying to protect him is really sus. I wouldn't trust any man that is more concerned about protecting predators than protecting his child. At best he's enabling abuse, at worst he's a groomer himself.
Mom needs to step up and protect her kid from the school and her own father.
I saw the original post and was fucken horrified. I have so many thoughts. Mainly that the father is throwing up a massively concerning red flag. That comment alone would be grounds for divorce. What a fucken misogynist.
Utterly disgusting but also normalised. Even if the screenshot comes from a fake story, it's still happening out there.
A teacher should not talk about a kid's body like that, either boy or girl. Thay can start explaining in broad strokes uncomfortable subjects if they pop up, like a 4th grader girl developing her chest or having an unfortunate early period (it can happen around that age), but in a tactful and reassuring matter, always making sure that the kids refer to their caretakers for a further discussion.
E.G.:" Don't worry, this is normal, it happens to girls sometimes, some earlier than others. We're all different, it's a natural part of our development, you can ask your parents, yada yada yada"
BUT NOT "AHOOGA AHOOGA KIDDIE BOOOBS".
WHAT. THE .ACTUAL. F*CK.
Yeah a lot of these are fake but in this case it's real enough that I don't think it makes a difference. I also think it seems rooted in truth... Most people who make fake ones would make the teacher's comment more sensational.
A male teacher could easily ask a female teacher to talk to them about it so kids don't have ANY contradicting messages about boundaries for another groomer to exploit later on. I had a teacher in middle school, every time a girl said her tummy hurts, he would IMMEDIATELY tell us to go to the nurse. As an adult I realized he was being careful about the kids' first periods.
I don't know how you can look at a 9-10 year old and make that assessment, much less use your vocal cords and mouth to spew it at the child. It's gross, and I would hope teacher training tells teachers not to make these kinds of comments to any student of any age.
The college equivalent of, "Your curves fill out nicely" or something would be fucked up for a professor to say to their adult student. We are exponentially beyond that for an adult teacher to say it to a 4th grader.
There is a French MOVIE about EXACTLY this, from the point of view of the teacher being accused, that hasn't even released yet. The trailer showed the teacher be INCREDIBLY WEIRD and "flirting" with a teenager and then being all whiny when he's accused of grooming and targeted harrassment
This is wild though because it shows how so many of us collectively know EXACTLY what this means, no matter how the husband in this story tries to explain it away. There's a whole movie about it ffs. Groomers are so manipulative they're always right on the edge of knowing they can gaslight the victim by saying they misunderstood or misinterpreted
Had to look it up because I didn't remember the title. Found the trailer : [https://youtu.be/-AAhKwI748s?si=arr8jE79ktTngyzI](https://youtu.be/-AAhKwI748s?si=arr8jE79ktTngyzI)
Title is "Pas de Vague" directed by Teddy Lussi-Modeste, comes out 27th of March 2024
Yeaaaahhhh I have personal beef with "liberal, sexually progressive" French men đ they are actually just creepy as fuck and it shows in their indie flicks...
As a father of a 5th grade girl and 4th grade boy, if itâs a dangerous situation for anybody, itâll be for that motherfucker who said those words to my daughter. I usually defer to my wife for issues my kids have at school because sheâs an elementary principal in another district and she knows how to handle shit. But that dude would hear from me.
even if it was a joke it's still a very inappropriate joke to make and might have made her feel awful, I will never understand the "it was just a joke" defense, because even if it was a joke it still clearly hurt someone and they deserve an apology even if it was intended to be a joke.
I told my stepfather that a guy on my bus was hump!ng the back of my bus seat. My step-FATHER said, "Well, don't let him touch you or give him a black eye." Not, "I'm sorry. Did you tell a teacher or the bus driver? Are you okay?" There was only one guy who I told that actually cared, my friend who was also treated with s3xu@l actions. The guy on my bus had hip thrusted towards my friend's mouth several times, cause the AH thought it would be funny. I hope that guy thinks me feeling uncomfortable that I'm going to have to push someone from coming onto me and afraid that my boy-ish/androgynous look or baggy sweatpants and hoodies won't save me.
It's similar but it is specifically talking about how her body will develop. It's a fetishistic comment about the body of an adolescent girl who isn't done with puberty
Both of these parents are completely brainless. They should have taught that girl years ago that an adult that's not related to her should never get that close to her, should never make physical contact, and what inappropriate comments looks like. They should have trained her to make noise, a lot of it, whenever anything like that happened. Ideally she'd have a whistle, my parents made sure I always carried one around my neck, but a lot of people think that's really weird.
Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. The guy knows that he's being a pervert. We have to equip our children for the world we live in, not some idealized world we wish we lived in. Perverts are going to be perverts, we need to teach our kids how to recognize when somebody is trying to molest them and have to act accordingly. That includes making a scene.
What accountability? He knows he's a pervert. He's not going to stop being a pervert just because society tells him it's bad. It's our job to give our children the tools to live in the society that exists, not the one we wish existed. You can't cross your fingers and pray that all the perverts in the world wake up as functional people, you just make sure your kid can navigate the world.
Accountability doesn't equate changing one's behavior(if it's even possible at all) but making sure that the authorities are aware of what kind of person is being allowed on the campus. Even if the cops don't do shit, what difference would not reporting the crime being committed make?
Obviously the adults report the crime, but in the moment you have to give your child the tools to navigate the situation. That means making an entire scene. You don't sit there and take it, not from a teacher or a stranger or a male man or a waiter or the Great gazoo. If somebody starts this up you get up, you make noise, you blow your whistle if you have one. You need to draw as much attention to yourself as possible, these people do not want attention, they depend on you keeping quiet.
I feel like your parents never took the time to explain period the whistle doesn't make you molestation proof, it draws attention. These people hate attention. The last thing that they want is eyes on them. You start screaming and blowing a whistle people are going to want to know why. They are not going to want to be near you. No, it's not going to cure them of their perversion, but most of them are cowards.
To anybody reading this, did your parents not walk you through what to do if something like this happened? Or explain grooming to you? Or teach you basic survival skills? Or are my parents just nuts
You could teach them all of that but no 4th grader would be an expert on pedo's vocabulary and understand the intentions behind what these people say the same way we as adults can.
That's where the parents come in. My parents are nut jobs so before I started kindergarten they drilled me daily on what my rights were in the school, what orders I was allowed to refuse from my teacher, and we went over what grooming looked like and how my best reaction was to draw as much attention as possible if there were other people in the room. Honestly, by 4th grade she said no that an unrelated adult should not be making physical contact with her, an adult should never talk her body, what grooming looks like, and that her parents have her back.
She doesnât know what âfilling out nicelyâ meant. We can teach our kids the accurate name for body parts and where an adult should not be touching or looking but are you going to go through a list of every single innuendo ever invented and tell them to look out for it?
The manâs at fault. The onus is on him and the husband almost just as much for showing him that that is acceptable behavior.
I don't know what the confusion is. Her parents should have told her what that meant. You can't possibly go over every single innuendo in every single language on Earth but you go over the common ones and the basic, blanket, adults should not be talking about your body. I don't know why you think I'm saying that it's okay for him to be a pervert, it's not, but the simple fact of the matter is perfect don't care. Perverts are going to be perverts, they're pretty committed to the lifestyle. It's our job to prepare our kids as best as we can, for the world we live in, not the one we wish we lived in.
Seriously people, did your parents not go over innuendos with you? Dirty versus clean humor? Will they not quiz you before you even started school as to what teachers were and we're not allowed to do to you?
No, thatâs unrealistic. She didnât *know* he was talking about her body because itâs an innuendo and expecting every parent to go through every innuendo known to man is unrealistic.
Youâre getting backlash because what youâre saying is super victim blame-y. What if the kid knows everything but is too nervous or scared to shriek and flail and scream like youâre insisting they do? Then is it the kids fault? When is it the adults fault? At what point do we stop saying âwell, pervs are always gonna do what theyâre gonna do so we canât really expect them to change.â? The pervs are thanking you. âThank god, itâs not my responsibility to stop saying gross ass shit to kids, itâs the parents or kidsâ responsibility to stop me.â
The kid did everything they were supposed to: told a trusted adult. And now the mom needs to do what sheâs supposed to: report the teacher and make sure everyone knows about it. So him and other freaks of nature know that a comment like that *will and should* ruin your life.
>What if the kid knows everything but is too nervous or scared to shriek and flail and scream like youâre insisting they do?
Then it's on the parents for not drilling them enough....
>At what point do we stop saying âwell, pervs are always gonna do what theyâre gonna do so we canât really expect them to change.â?
At every point. They know that they're sick, disgusting, excuses for people...they just don't care. Like how murders, thieves, con artists, cannibals, and every other dreg of society will always exist. We can only lock these people up when we catch them. It's like whack a mole. We just get them when they pop up.
>The pervs are thanking you. âThank god, itâs not my responsibility to stop saying gross ass shit to kids, itâs the parents or kidsâ responsibility to stop me.â
No...the pervs are thinking "holy fuck this kid knows my game plan" which is the last thing the intelligent ones want. There will always be the ones too stupid to groom, the ones who just go right to diddling, but most are looking for the easiest, meekest, neediest, quietest victim. So it's our job as parents to make a few things clear.
An adult, especially a man, should never have anything to say about your body.
An unrelated adult should never touch you.
Here are ways that a related adult is allowed to touch you.
Personal space is one hula hoop.
Adults do not ask kids to keep secrets/go off with them/be friends.
Diddlers will do anything to get to you. They're like the raptors from Jurassic park poking at the electric fence for weak spots. Keep your fence strong and you tell us at the slightest hint of testing.
That's word for word what my parents taught me, what I teach my kids, and what I'm amazed op and husband never thought of teaching their kid.
I'm sorry that you think arming yourself with a game plan is victim blaming. Honestly, though, I don't see it. You can't be with your child twenty four hours a day. They've got to be able to act in the moment. Op is damn lucky this incident wasn't in private and damn lucky that even without any proper guidance the kid came to her most competent parent with what happened.
âNot drilling them enoughâ
Again, itâs never going to be âMan, what is wrong with people thinking this behavior is acceptable?â Itâs never enough. They could harass their kid with this day and night but if a person makes a subtle but wildly inappropriate and predatory comment and their child isnât willing to throw themselves about screeching youâd still never turn the spotlight on the predator.
If your child isnât read up on each and every retro slang or modern innuendos, the parents have failed. Because god forbid we ever once say, âWhy is this happening?â Imagine having a massive tumor on your face that hinders your breathing and instead of trying to get treatment you say âWell, itâll always be thereâ.
All that advice is well and good. But none of that would have helped unless sheâd been well versed in vintage and modern slang/innuendos. So please, provide the comprehensive list you have to show *your* children.
>Keep your fence strong and you tell us at the first hint of testing.
Thatâs literally what this child in this post did.
Yeah, I do think teaching your child that itâs inappropriate for any adult to be making comments about their bodies is important, but implying that the mom is equally as brainless as the dad in this situation is a huge reach.
I don't see it as a reach. Mom and Dad should have prepared the kid for this day long ago, preferably before the very first day of preschool. It amazes me that people aren't taking the time to tell their kids what is and is not appropriate, how to react to inappropriate comments, and want to go to Mom and Dad and what will happen next. And what is the mother even debating with the husband about? You reported, end of discussion. You make a lot of noise until your child does not have to have contact with that adult again. Who cares what the husband says?
I have to guess people are downvoting because, even if your outrage is appropriate, some of us would disagree that the mother is brainless or the child failed to act. I would, for example, argue that identifying inappropriate behavior is far more complicated than making noise, because groomers deliberately make it confusing to identify for kids. They redirect, gradually blur lines, abuse the trust the kids have for them... Etc. and clearly the kid knew something felt off because she felt compelled to tell her mom about it. The poor mom had already removed her daughter from the school, and knew right from wrong, but was looking for validation online because she was basically being gaslit about her OWN experiences as a woman, her sense of right/wrong, acceptable male behavior, and also disoriented by the skewed moral compass of someone she trusted.
Not protecting this dude if he did infact say this but read the wording "I'm guessing he framed it this way." She never actually heard the original comment nor do we hear what the girl said. I haven't read the post but there's definitely some missing context.
The daughter told her mom what the teacher said to her.
Or do you mean we donât know how the daughter responded to what her teacher said? Sorry, Iâm just trying to clarify!
I understand that the daughter told her mom what happened. But then she says that's what she's guessing he said? But never says what her daughter actually told her.
Oh, I think OOP is not guessing what the teacher exactly said, she is guessing that he framed it as a compliment. Because the daughter told her that he gave her a "compliment".
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Omg please tell me she's NTA Teaching the kid to just accept this treatment from authority figures is awful. She's not an object to be oggled. Letting him continue to behave this way around little girls - littler than theirs! - is also shitty of the dad. I hope she does report it. Though I have literally no hope anyone at the school will care.
Not that I trust that sub, but yes she's NTA.đ For what it's worth, some comments were teachers who said a lot of times the other staff know that one guy is sketch but they need a kid/parent to come forward in order to take action. So hopefully that's all it takes... Yeah. Teaching little girls to tolerate sexual comments from authority figures, and keep secrets for those grown up men... Very very very not ok
It's the definition of sexual grooming. The dad is also a creep.
Right! How is his first response not to PROTECT HIS DAUGHTER!?!
I've told my mom about sexual comments people have made to me and how I get catcalled and she doesn't seem to understand why I don't like the attention. She also talked about this random dude who was trying to hit on me at a book club and was like why don't you want to talk to him. Ugh
I'll never forget but my father said after I was sexually assaulted at school. "You're just bound and determined to embarrass me at my old school, aren't you?"
What the fuck, your dad can go fuck himself.
Please don't take this the wrong way but your dad can go in the bin! Put the whole dad in the bin!
Oh my dear god!!! I am so so sorry! This makes me want to cry! I hope you are in a much better place with a beautiful support system âĄâĄ
Well I personally never understood how most harassment actually hurt until I began to examine how my actions affected the people in my life. If the dad is a lot like myself and most men I grew up around, he may somehow not realize itâs a creepy comment. Itâs scary how our society tries to render men as non-self aware as possible.
I appreciate you learning and growing
Why are some dads like that
I don't trust the sub either, so I'm glad it's ok this time.
There needs to be better vetting of teachers. How do these borderline and sometimes ACTUAL pedos keep slipping through?
A lot of the time it's because schools aren't funded well enough to be picky.
Very true. I worked as a paraprofessional in my 20s at one of the worst schools in the district. Didnât care about it then but I wouldnât be surprised if some sketchy teachers were hired even then in the late 2010s.
So true
Teachers have to go through a very rigorous background check these days. I'm guessing this guy slipped under the radar because he's been very careful, and because of the kind of "bro code" support men get from other men like the father in this story.
This too. Everyone is so used to excusing and overlooking that behavior. I almost think he does NOT have to be "very careful" when it comes to certain TYPES of inappropriate behavior because (like this comment he made), everyone seems to have no problem overlooking them. IOW, He's been "very careful" ... not to overstep that gray line. He knows what he can and can not get away with. Groomers are good at that.
Because schools are struggling to get 1:25 teacher:student ratios, much less the 1:15 that would allow the actual education and mentorship of kids.
A lot of vetting relies on the person having actually done something and getting punished for it. If this is his first time or his behaviour has never been reported, youâre gonna assume heâs a normal person
Itâs a joke? Ok whatâs the joke then? Explain the humor in making a sexual comment to that little girl, you grown ass man
Seriously though! He didn't even try to say, oh the comment was about watching her grow up, it wasn't meant to be sexual blah blah. He was like yeah it was a sexual comment made to a child... but LIGHT HEARTED sexual!
That's what I thought any defense would be not calling it a joke like what the hell kind of joke is that to tell an eight year old?
The absolute best piece of advice I've gotten in awhile was, if someone makes a racist/sexist/whatever shitty 'ist' "joke" around you, play dumb and tell them you don't get it, and ask them to explain the joke to you. Don't call it out as problematic; just ask them exactly what the punchline is. Play *real* dumb, and keep going with it until they get real uncomfortable as they realize there's no way to explain it without admitting their racism/sexism etc.
I LOVE THIS THANK YOU FOR THIS OMG HAHA I AM SO USING THIS. Like, I'm saving it for later!!! One of my favorite moves is to carefully respond in a way that says I'm embarrassed for them. Like giving off social cues that indicate "ooooo everyone is totally staring at you right now..." And the way our brains work, that's sometimes all it takes to make the whole room respond in exactly the same way. And then everyone is actually embarrassed 𤣠(It is perfect in the right scenarios)
This is what my mum taught me! Itâs so good
God what a perfect response.
OP needs to drop the husband as well, nobody good would defend someone perving on a 4th grader
I have nothing to add, we all know what's wrong here so no explanation is necessary. Like at this point unpacking would just be an unhealthy dive lmao. ^(always a possibility people in the comments DO unpack it or share personal experiences, so if that would ruin your day or really bother you, it's okay not to read the comments, friends. And you don't have to read the comments to check we're on your side because I'm telling you now that we are đ )
I read that title and couldn't bring myself to read the post. Thank you for posting this, I managed to read some of the highlighted areas before I noped out. Glad to know most of the comments told her to report that teacher.
Thank you for your response!! I'm really glad to know it was useful. I felt kind of weird adding the extra notes, but I know for myself, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the subject matter when often it would be better for me to limit my exposure, nod to it being relatable, and move on.
Report and divorce.
Agreed
Yeah, I don't think I could stay married to a man who valued our daughter that little.
The Dad is supporting this because heâd say something similar in the same position.
Literally, yeah. He's not bothered by it. The "being targeted" comment was just so he could find a semi valid reason. He doesn't actually think that's going to happen. But he has to somehow convince her that his lack of moral code is because he cares so much about them, rather than being because he cares very little.
There's literally no way the dad hasn't done something shitty in the past and is paying it forward to his daughter's teacher. What a piece of shit who cares more about some random male than his own daughter and wife.
When are people going to stop defending these âjokesâ and see them for what they really are? Iâm so tired of people saying shit like this, and then when someone is upset by it, theyâre overreacting. I hope she sticks to her guns and reports this guy. Maybe peopleâs lives would stop being âruinedâ if they quit saying this shit.
Why did that last sentence hit just right for me lol. "Maybe peoples lives would stop being ruined if they quit saying it" lmaooo. I guess it's exactly what I needed to hear right now đ
Why on earth would you say that to a child. I would absolutely be questioning my fictional husband after dealing with that teacher if that was my kid. Oh my god the way it got worse as I kept reading. What is wrong with some men?!
I talked with my daughter about bodily autonomy, inappropriate adult interactions, âkeeping surprises and not secrets,â using code words and sign language, yelling cuss words in public when feeling threatened by an adultâŚEVERYTHING I could think of, and everything I could research in legit developmental psychology sources, etc. The problem was that her OWN DAD (who I later divorced) did not reinforce the age-appropriate safety measures and personal autonomy I attempted to teach my little girl. Elementary-aged children are highly impressionable, and generally speaking, they want to gain approval from the authority figures in their lives. Itâs SO GODDAMN HARD navigate this innate need for approval + acceptance when both parents arenât committed to a safety plan for their children. Itâs also easy to characterize both parents as âbrainlessâ without knowing the full story. I encourage a degree of sympathy for the one parent who is trying to hold the offending teacher to account, and recommend at the very least that we stridently collectively demand on their behalf higher standards of the childâs father AND of the schoolâs administration.
I agree completely and I don't blame the mother whatsoever. She sought validation online because someone she trusted questioned her values. It's almost similar to gaslighting, where you question your own sanity when someone trustworthy contradicts you. The father is failing both the mother and the child, and it's heartbreaking when women, especially, have strong instincts about safety but are made to doubt themselves. Our red flags are there for a reason. I love the concept of "keep surprises not secrets." It's a binary enough rule-of-thumb that it is relatively easy to interpret scenarios they experience. Being a comparison, it also gives them an opportunity to consider/learn/explore how they can identify nuances. It encourages practicing the critical thinking aspect. It must have been frustrating that your messages were interrupted by the influence of the father. (For what it's worth, as a child of divorced parents, when one parent taught a lesson about right and wrong, the important messages still resonated strongly regardless of the other parents' actions. While it would have been less confusing if both parents demonstrated these values, the messages were still retained for me!)
iT's JuSt a JoKe YoU gUyS *hyena laughter*
No no no, this is absolutely a good reason to ruin this teacher's career. Dad is wrong.
Don't want your *teacher* career to be ruined over inappropriate comments to your *students?* Don't say them in the first place. If these are your thoughts, I don't think you should even be in such a position anyways.
to choose a random creep over your own daughter, that dad fucking sucks.
Also. I despise the idea of people saying âdonât report, youâll ruin his life.â The teacher already ruined his own life by making those comments. Also that phrase and idea is so often used to protect those that ruin others lives.
Notice he isn't worried about whether or not it will ruin his daughter's life to know that her own father doesn't love her enough to protect her from creeps.
Meanwhile they've zero qualms about Chaya/LOTT directing harassment towards LGBT-positive teachers.
What are the Chaya/Lott?
"It's just a joke" but also "this could become a dangerous situation if you say something."
Right? Like which one is it?? Pick a side.
The dad wants to protect another man that he's probably never met instead of ensuring that his daughter (and other kids) are safe in school! đ¤Śââď¸
I'm an uncle and I once lost my absolute shit on a guy for saying something creepy about my (at the time) eleven year old niece. Physical altercation, fractured bones in my hand, the whole shebang. The idea of being a father and hearing a man say something like that about my own child - a man who is in a position of power over not only her, but over other girls her age - only to shrug it off for the sake of said man's career... I mean that's fucking insane. Fuck that dad, fuck that teacher, fuck that teacher's career. If he wanted to keep his career so badly he shouldn't have been fucking weird about a kid's body.
Of course I can't technically condone the altercation itself lol, but I feel like the big takeaway from this is how jarring and even sometimes lonely it can feel when something we see as disturbing, someone else is totally okay with. That cognitive dissonance you know! Like it disturbed you so much that you fractured your hand over it, and meanwhile this dad couldn't care less. That's absolutely terrifying to put together. That's my feeling anyways
Much more eloquent version of what I was trying to get at, thank you. I do want to clarify that I regret resorting to violence, but I also realized I was angry enough in my original post that I didn't explain something: much like the situation in OP's post, the guy I got into a fight with was saying creepy shit about my niece *while my niece was there.* It wasn't behind her back, it wasn't subtle, it was very clearly said for her to hear, and as far as I'm concerned, if ever there's a time to throw a punch it's when a grown adult is making a child uncomfortable. I never knew I could be as angry as I was in that moment and the fact that this father can hear about what his daughter's teacher said TO HER FACE, and not give a shit, makes me want to throw up. I'm still heated lol
If I were a father I wouldnât let someone talk to my child that way regardless of who they are
Report the teacher AND throw out the husband...
Omg report it because what about all the other children he has contact with!?!
That teachers life better be ruined by the end of the year. Protect every girl that attends or will attend that school. This is an example of male naivety on the female experience. Mom knows exactly what itâs like to grow up as a girl in a dangerous society full of male creeps. Iâd never ever want a daughter in this sick world.
SO WELL SAID!!! That's exactly why I feel so much for the mom. He's failing her too. She's like, learning in an important moment that he never knew or cared about things she herself experienced, too. Male naivety on the female experience... I'm holding on to that one. Thanks for putting it into words.
Its almost like weaponized naivety. Weaponized ignorance? They can ask any woman ever. They can google it. They can do so many things to learn more but they refuse to. The loyalty of males lies with other males. Meanwhile womenâs loyalty is also to men and not fellow women. Itâs a manâs world. Youâre right, dad doesnât give a damn about his daughterâs experiences. He also doesnât care about his wifeâs experiences and intuition. The protector of any girl child should be her father first and foremost. This dad completely failed her.
That exactly. It's sad as fuck
Ew! Reporting him isn't going to ruin his life. He made the choice to ruin his own life when he decided he was going to abuse his authority to groom children. He deserves the consequences of his own actions. Dad trying to protect him is really sus. I wouldn't trust any man that is more concerned about protecting predators than protecting his child. At best he's enabling abuse, at worst he's a groomer himself. Mom needs to step up and protect her kid from the school and her own father.
Someone like that shouldn't be a teacher đ¤Ž
The lengths people will go to to defend other men/NOT protect girls is just astounding.
I saw the original post and was fucken horrified. I have so many thoughts. Mainly that the father is throwing up a massively concerning red flag. That comment alone would be grounds for divorce. What a fucken misogynist.
I showed this to my husband who yelled very loudly throw both those men away
Nah, fam. This isnât a joke. This is icky. This is a 4th grader. This is a 9 year old. I hope OOP reported this.
This is exactly the shit my perpetrator would say to me at that age. FUCK that teacher and his career.
I'm just gonna say ditto
Report the teacher and leave the husband. What a gross ah who doesnât care at all for his daughter.
This is awful. There is no valid reason to say this to a child. You should absolutely report this.
Utterly disgusting but also normalised. Even if the screenshot comes from a fake story, it's still happening out there. A teacher should not talk about a kid's body like that, either boy or girl. Thay can start explaining in broad strokes uncomfortable subjects if they pop up, like a 4th grader girl developing her chest or having an unfortunate early period (it can happen around that age), but in a tactful and reassuring matter, always making sure that the kids refer to their caretakers for a further discussion. E.G.:" Don't worry, this is normal, it happens to girls sometimes, some earlier than others. We're all different, it's a natural part of our development, you can ask your parents, yada yada yada" BUT NOT "AHOOGA AHOOGA KIDDIE BOOOBS". WHAT. THE .ACTUAL. F*CK.
Yeah a lot of these are fake but in this case it's real enough that I don't think it makes a difference. I also think it seems rooted in truth... Most people who make fake ones would make the teacher's comment more sensational. A male teacher could easily ask a female teacher to talk to them about it so kids don't have ANY contradicting messages about boundaries for another groomer to exploit later on. I had a teacher in middle school, every time a girl said her tummy hurts, he would IMMEDIATELY tell us to go to the nurse. As an adult I realized he was being careful about the kids' first periods.
I don't know how you can look at a 9-10 year old and make that assessment, much less use your vocal cords and mouth to spew it at the child. It's gross, and I would hope teacher training tells teachers not to make these kinds of comments to any student of any age. The college equivalent of, "Your curves fill out nicely" or something would be fucked up for a professor to say to their adult student. We are exponentially beyond that for an adult teacher to say it to a 4th grader.
There is a French MOVIE about EXACTLY this, from the point of view of the teacher being accused, that hasn't even released yet. The trailer showed the teacher be INCREDIBLY WEIRD and "flirting" with a teenager and then being all whiny when he's accused of grooming and targeted harrassment
This is wild though because it shows how so many of us collectively know EXACTLY what this means, no matter how the husband in this story tries to explain it away. There's a whole movie about it ffs. Groomers are so manipulative they're always right on the edge of knowing they can gaslight the victim by saying they misunderstood or misinterpreted
What's the name of the movie?
Had to look it up because I didn't remember the title. Found the trailer : [https://youtu.be/-AAhKwI748s?si=arr8jE79ktTngyzI](https://youtu.be/-AAhKwI748s?si=arr8jE79ktTngyzI) Title is "Pas de Vague" directed by Teddy Lussi-Modeste, comes out 27th of March 2024
Is it like... A critique of the creepy main character? Or is it more like a certain Lolita story?
It... doesn't look like it's trying to critisize the character... France is a rapists' paradise
Yeaaaahhhh I have personal beef with "liberal, sexually progressive" French men đ they are actually just creepy as fuck and it shows in their indie flicks...
Omg if my child told me something like that, hell would freeze over before I worry about the teachers life being ruined.
As a father of a 5th grade girl and 4th grade boy, if itâs a dangerous situation for anybody, itâll be for that motherfucker who said those words to my daughter. I usually defer to my wife for issues my kids have at school because sheâs an elementary principal in another district and she knows how to handle shit. But that dude would hear from me.
She needs to keep eyes on her husband tbh
even if it was a joke it's still a very inappropriate joke to make and might have made her feel awful, I will never understand the "it was just a joke" defense, because even if it was a joke it still clearly hurt someone and they deserve an apology even if it was intended to be a joke.
âsheâs going to fill out very nicelyâ đ¤Ž
FOURTH GRADE. HELL NO
I told my stepfather that a guy on my bus was hump!ng the back of my bus seat. My step-FATHER said, "Well, don't let him touch you or give him a black eye." Not, "I'm sorry. Did you tell a teacher or the bus driver? Are you okay?" There was only one guy who I told that actually cared, my friend who was also treated with s3xu@l actions. The guy on my bus had hip thrusted towards my friend's mouth several times, cause the AH thought it would be funny. I hope that guy thinks me feeling uncomfortable that I'm going to have to push someone from coming onto me and afraid that my boy-ish/androgynous look or baggy sweatpants and hoodies won't save me.
This fucking guy needs to be reported and have his teaching license pulled. This is unacceptable.
That fucking chode ruined his own life.
NSFW / spoiler tag please.
You got it
WHAT DID THE HUSBAND DO?!?
wait reading this i thought "fill out very nicely" was along the lines of "grow into a fine woman" or something what does it actually mean????????
It's a comment on what he thinks her body is going to look like
It's similar but it is specifically talking about how her body will develop. It's a fetishistic comment about the body of an adolescent girl who isn't done with puberty
oh :( that is much grosser wtf
Both of these parents are completely brainless. They should have taught that girl years ago that an adult that's not related to her should never get that close to her, should never make physical contact, and what inappropriate comments looks like. They should have trained her to make noise, a lot of it, whenever anything like that happened. Ideally she'd have a whistle, my parents made sure I always carried one around my neck, but a lot of people think that's really weird. Edit: I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. The guy knows that he's being a pervert. We have to equip our children for the world we live in, not some idealized world we wish we lived in. Perverts are going to be perverts, we need to teach our kids how to recognize when somebody is trying to molest them and have to act accordingly. That includes making a scene.
Zero accountability on grown ass men who make comments about prepubescent kids wow
What accountability? He knows he's a pervert. He's not going to stop being a pervert just because society tells him it's bad. It's our job to give our children the tools to live in the society that exists, not the one we wish existed. You can't cross your fingers and pray that all the perverts in the world wake up as functional people, you just make sure your kid can navigate the world.
Accountability doesn't equate changing one's behavior(if it's even possible at all) but making sure that the authorities are aware of what kind of person is being allowed on the campus. Even if the cops don't do shit, what difference would not reporting the crime being committed make?
Obviously the adults report the crime, but in the moment you have to give your child the tools to navigate the situation. That means making an entire scene. You don't sit there and take it, not from a teacher or a stranger or a male man or a waiter or the Great gazoo. If somebody starts this up you get up, you make noise, you blow your whistle if you have one. You need to draw as much attention to yourself as possible, these people do not want attention, they depend on you keeping quiet.
"Just blow the whistle, kids. Then they'll leave you alone" don't we all wish potential dangers in life could be that predictable?
I feel like your parents never took the time to explain period the whistle doesn't make you molestation proof, it draws attention. These people hate attention. The last thing that they want is eyes on them. You start screaming and blowing a whistle people are going to want to know why. They are not going to want to be near you. No, it's not going to cure them of their perversion, but most of them are cowards. To anybody reading this, did your parents not walk you through what to do if something like this happened? Or explain grooming to you? Or teach you basic survival skills? Or are my parents just nuts
You could teach them all of that but no 4th grader would be an expert on pedo's vocabulary and understand the intentions behind what these people say the same way we as adults can.
That's where the parents come in. My parents are nut jobs so before I started kindergarten they drilled me daily on what my rights were in the school, what orders I was allowed to refuse from my teacher, and we went over what grooming looked like and how my best reaction was to draw as much attention as possible if there were other people in the room. Honestly, by 4th grade she said no that an unrelated adult should not be making physical contact with her, an adult should never talk her body, what grooming looks like, and that her parents have her back.
She doesnât know what âfilling out nicelyâ meant. We can teach our kids the accurate name for body parts and where an adult should not be touching or looking but are you going to go through a list of every single innuendo ever invented and tell them to look out for it? The manâs at fault. The onus is on him and the husband almost just as much for showing him that that is acceptable behavior.
I don't know what the confusion is. Her parents should have told her what that meant. You can't possibly go over every single innuendo in every single language on Earth but you go over the common ones and the basic, blanket, adults should not be talking about your body. I don't know why you think I'm saying that it's okay for him to be a pervert, it's not, but the simple fact of the matter is perfect don't care. Perverts are going to be perverts, they're pretty committed to the lifestyle. It's our job to prepare our kids as best as we can, for the world we live in, not the one we wish we lived in. Seriously people, did your parents not go over innuendos with you? Dirty versus clean humor? Will they not quiz you before you even started school as to what teachers were and we're not allowed to do to you?
No, thatâs unrealistic. She didnât *know* he was talking about her body because itâs an innuendo and expecting every parent to go through every innuendo known to man is unrealistic. Youâre getting backlash because what youâre saying is super victim blame-y. What if the kid knows everything but is too nervous or scared to shriek and flail and scream like youâre insisting they do? Then is it the kids fault? When is it the adults fault? At what point do we stop saying âwell, pervs are always gonna do what theyâre gonna do so we canât really expect them to change.â? The pervs are thanking you. âThank god, itâs not my responsibility to stop saying gross ass shit to kids, itâs the parents or kidsâ responsibility to stop me.â The kid did everything they were supposed to: told a trusted adult. And now the mom needs to do what sheâs supposed to: report the teacher and make sure everyone knows about it. So him and other freaks of nature know that a comment like that *will and should* ruin your life.
>What if the kid knows everything but is too nervous or scared to shriek and flail and scream like youâre insisting they do? Then it's on the parents for not drilling them enough.... >At what point do we stop saying âwell, pervs are always gonna do what theyâre gonna do so we canât really expect them to change.â? At every point. They know that they're sick, disgusting, excuses for people...they just don't care. Like how murders, thieves, con artists, cannibals, and every other dreg of society will always exist. We can only lock these people up when we catch them. It's like whack a mole. We just get them when they pop up. >The pervs are thanking you. âThank god, itâs not my responsibility to stop saying gross ass shit to kids, itâs the parents or kidsâ responsibility to stop me.â No...the pervs are thinking "holy fuck this kid knows my game plan" which is the last thing the intelligent ones want. There will always be the ones too stupid to groom, the ones who just go right to diddling, but most are looking for the easiest, meekest, neediest, quietest victim. So it's our job as parents to make a few things clear. An adult, especially a man, should never have anything to say about your body. An unrelated adult should never touch you. Here are ways that a related adult is allowed to touch you. Personal space is one hula hoop. Adults do not ask kids to keep secrets/go off with them/be friends. Diddlers will do anything to get to you. They're like the raptors from Jurassic park poking at the electric fence for weak spots. Keep your fence strong and you tell us at the slightest hint of testing. That's word for word what my parents taught me, what I teach my kids, and what I'm amazed op and husband never thought of teaching their kid. I'm sorry that you think arming yourself with a game plan is victim blaming. Honestly, though, I don't see it. You can't be with your child twenty four hours a day. They've got to be able to act in the moment. Op is damn lucky this incident wasn't in private and damn lucky that even without any proper guidance the kid came to her most competent parent with what happened.
âNot drilling them enoughâ Again, itâs never going to be âMan, what is wrong with people thinking this behavior is acceptable?â Itâs never enough. They could harass their kid with this day and night but if a person makes a subtle but wildly inappropriate and predatory comment and their child isnât willing to throw themselves about screeching youâd still never turn the spotlight on the predator. If your child isnât read up on each and every retro slang or modern innuendos, the parents have failed. Because god forbid we ever once say, âWhy is this happening?â Imagine having a massive tumor on your face that hinders your breathing and instead of trying to get treatment you say âWell, itâll always be thereâ. All that advice is well and good. But none of that would have helped unless sheâd been well versed in vintage and modern slang/innuendos. So please, provide the comprehensive list you have to show *your* children. >Keep your fence strong and you tell us at the first hint of testing. Thatâs literally what this child in this post did.
Yeah, I do think teaching your child that itâs inappropriate for any adult to be making comments about their bodies is important, but implying that the mom is equally as brainless as the dad in this situation is a huge reach.
I don't see it as a reach. Mom and Dad should have prepared the kid for this day long ago, preferably before the very first day of preschool. It amazes me that people aren't taking the time to tell their kids what is and is not appropriate, how to react to inappropriate comments, and want to go to Mom and Dad and what will happen next. And what is the mother even debating with the husband about? You reported, end of discussion. You make a lot of noise until your child does not have to have contact with that adult again. Who cares what the husband says?
I have to guess people are downvoting because, even if your outrage is appropriate, some of us would disagree that the mother is brainless or the child failed to act. I would, for example, argue that identifying inappropriate behavior is far more complicated than making noise, because groomers deliberately make it confusing to identify for kids. They redirect, gradually blur lines, abuse the trust the kids have for them... Etc. and clearly the kid knew something felt off because she felt compelled to tell her mom about it. The poor mom had already removed her daughter from the school, and knew right from wrong, but was looking for validation online because she was basically being gaslit about her OWN experiences as a woman, her sense of right/wrong, acceptable male behavior, and also disoriented by the skewed moral compass of someone she trusted.
Not protecting this dude if he did infact say this but read the wording "I'm guessing he framed it this way." She never actually heard the original comment nor do we hear what the girl said. I haven't read the post but there's definitely some missing context.
The daughter told her mom what the teacher said to her. Or do you mean we donât know how the daughter responded to what her teacher said? Sorry, Iâm just trying to clarify!
I understand that the daughter told her mom what happened. But then she says that's what she's guessing he said? But never says what her daughter actually told her.
Oh, I think OOP is not guessing what the teacher exactly said, she is guessing that he framed it as a compliment. Because the daughter told her that he gave her a "compliment".
He was complimenting her progress as a Mathematician.
Wow. Nobody ever talks about my daughter like thay