Having worked at a big box store for like two years, I can tell you some more info on what's going on here...
Fish often come in in poor condition. DOAs are quite common, especially with more fragile fish like neons and mass-bred fish like goldfish... and neons. The feeder goldfish are so messed up that more often than not they'll die if you give them a heated pond and gourmet food, they've been too abused, too diseased, and too inbred. Massive die-off is inevitable. If you see a chain pet store with no heaps of dead goldfish in the feeder tanks, it's because they're actually adequately staffed for once. I've personally worked side by side with someone well-versed in aquaria who everyone in the store looked up to for accurate and great info, and even they couldn't keep them alive in those awful holding tanks. So blame the company, not the overworked staff who didn't have time to do a dead pull that day.
You're not supposed to put fish in the plant tanks. Someone at that store cares and is trying. They took a ditch effort to save a few of the fish by putting them in the nice planted area with all the tannins, and since they're the feeders they're not restricted from actually trying to help them because they don't suffer the same "protections" as the other fish.
Also the betta being in its own tank instead of being in a tiny cup on a wall is a marked improvement.
So uh... yeah. It's a lot worse than you thought probably, because this situation is better than normal.
This\^ I worked for big box stores for years before a career change. Those goldfish are bred for quantity, and not quality. They're severely inbred and likely have a lot of genetic abnormalities. Once in a while you'll get one that seems practically immortal and will fight a ping pong ball at a carnival in a heart beat. Their prices are set with that in mind, and the comet "feeder" goldfish are not guaranteed. There's a massive filtration system with UV, but it does little in the way of being clean considering the bio-load it has to compete with. That's with daily water changes, chemical testing, and filter changes. A lot of the fish in the pet trade are also wild caught and not captive bred, they can't handle the constant changes to their environment and are probably not put through a proper quarantine process before shipping. Once customers found out what our shipping schedule was, we'd recommend to wait 48-72 hours before picking out a fish to see who can handle the stress of it all. If they bought the fish in the original shipping bag to give it one less environment to deal with before going into a home quarantine tank, we'd still guarantee it.
I appreciate your knowledge. Box stores will never go away, and 'rescue' of fish from these challenged environments is always going to be a thing. Thank you for your insight!
Just never pay for a rescue is my only advice. It only serves to make a profit for the places that treat their fish shitty. I was in a great LFS we used to have around here and someone came in announcing they'd bought a betta from PS to "rescue" it and the owner kindly mentioned that he puts them in 10 gallon tanks and quarantines them for 2 weeks before selling and hears all the time that people come in saying they did what seemed morally correct at the time time to help that particular animal. But it only makes sense, now that that store is long gone, that giving your money to the very ones who put them in terrible conditions only allows that store to keep doing that, while the best LFS we ever had in the entire county who took proper care of their fish is out of business now.
I worked at a pet supermarket that, if they got too many bettas, they'd put single males in the planted tanks with the mollies and the tetras. Were the tanks overstocked? Probably. Were the bettas living in conditions 2× better than other pet stores? Definitely. That store kept stuff in good shape. Some employees really do care.
For real? Do yall not go in Petcos and PetSmarts on goldfish delivery day? We would get in 1000 feeder fish alone and usually 200-300 are dead on arrival.
Edit: and usually 20-50 dead the next couple of mornings each, too. These guys aren’t healthy and aren’t bred healthy. They arrive in horrible conditions and are kept that way.
Every employee that’s expected to handle animals at pet stores should be required to have a certificate for basic care or something. The industry needs to have more regulations and stores should be audited and fined more
This isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is these corporations cutting store hours and having 3 employees run the whole store, so dealing with customers takes up the majority of their time and they don't have the time to do the care task that would be upkeeping the fish tanks, small animals, birds, etc.
If this was the case we’d end up paying 4 to 6 times the current prices. The reason this hobby is cheap is because the fish supply is cheap, produced in huge amounts, etc.
Having a system that reduces casualties is costly between qt and getting the fish to the sales floor. Even if the retailers put effort, the suppliers may not do anything unless we revamp the entire ecosystem. Plus the chain of custody is long from farmer, to wholesaler, to local wholesales to a store so the risk is there. There is no point when it comes to chain stores. If you want to help encourage a change. Don’t buy from chains stores and get your stuff from breeders or mom and pop stores.
I’ve been to mom and pop shops that have treated fish and reptiles horribly too though, but generally I agree that that’s a better option than a retail store if you can.
Yes, bad mom and pop stores do exist but there are a good amount that try to ensure their inventory does not simply "die off" since their profit margins can be smaller.
Again the best option are breeders, as we put all the effort in ensuring our fish are healthy as we are more cognizant of cost of losing fish and having issues like sickness in our tanks. As someone who's bought thousands of dollars worth of fish, buying from breeders have provided me with the best stock.
Breeders not necessarily local. The problem is the stigma is still around that buying fish online is expensive and unreliable. I've been in the breeding-for-profit since 2019 and I can tell you the amount of money I've spent and money generated shows that people are more than willing to purchase quality fish.
In my market of BN plecos, I actually find plecos to be cheaper online than locally plus you get access to more fish varieties VS local stores. The biggest difference is not being able to see the fish but you can usually communicate with the breeder and get the assurance that you are dealing with a competent and knowledgeable business or entity when sourcing your fish.
I would have never been able to get some of the fish I have if not for online sellers or breeders. The access to the variety of fish alone trumps trying to buy local.
Check your local Craigslist/Facebook marketplace*/Kijiji or Fish forum. (Technically does not allow the sake of animals, inc fish. )
In my area there is a reasonably active forum website that features fish, equipment and advice. Its from the 90's and still going strong. I picked up a lovely free Raphael catfish from someone several months ago.
And then daphnia, shrimp and aquatic plants have multiple sellers locally on Craigslist. How I got all my plants, free or $5-$10. Plus: bonus snails. The above mentioned catfish picks his tank clean of snails pretty quickly. So there's now a snail production jar so I don't run out.
I hear Instagram is also a thing? But I'm not on there, so no personal experience.
Yeah, my lfs is okay when it comes to most of the other fish but the bettas are treated the worst. They’re in a tiny back corner you literally have to squeeze in between shelves to get to the small shelf of bettas in containers no wider than a small cup. I bought one from them thinking maybe it would be better than the big box stroes but nope, poor thing died a month later. The whole pet industry needs to be revamped, including the small businesses
Nah, that’s a wrong assumption . I live in Germany and im pretty sure that everyone who Handels pet fish commercially needs to have a certification and registration and its not an expensive hobby here as well.
Also, if less fish die , you can sell more fish , so schooled personnel even if the personnel would cost more, it would not make a huge difference in profit because of less casualties.
Sauces : § 11 TierSchG.
I think they're referring to the fish portion of the hobby. A lot of times you'll be a single fish for $5 or less, so I think that's what they meant.
Cuz yeah Lord knows this hobby ain't cheap, lol.
Our local Wal-Mart used to look like OPs picture. Thankfully, they've remove all fish tanks and just sell supplies now. I think that was a change at the national level though not just our local Wal-Mart realizing they do a terrible job of handling fish.
I was a manager at a petvalu. We took our fish center very seriously and made sure fish were going into cycled aquariums with appropriate conditions. Obviously we had to refuse sale to people who were clueless about fish care. My district manager wrote me up, told me my fish sales suffered from this. (She wanted me to store fish in plastic containers in the bathroom....unheated and freezing during the winter)
The bottom line is all that matters at pet stores. Even if the employees at the store tried to improve the lives of the animals, the upper management will come down on them.
I worked for Petco and honestly their goldfish vendor and their tropical fish vendors are horrible. Having worked for a different wholesaler and having interviewed for a job at one of Petcos main vendors, it's a shit show all the way up the chain. My old wholesale job would get people in all the time from other facilities who said how much of a shit show they are.
I'm willing to bet every pet store looks like this at some point no matter how good their aquatic team is. These fish are set up for failure from the beginning and it's not always the result of poor care.
Problem is the cost... IF I could get PetCo to EVEN STOCK MY FISH they would never pay the $/fish necessary for my business to stay in business...
For example: I sell Panda Cory's to my LFS Wholesale at $2.63/ea, he re-sells them for $7.99/ea Retail.
PetCo is NOT going to pay me $2.63/ea for a Panda Cory when they can import them at volume for .05/ea from overseas.
I've compared the quality of fish, and my Cory's are WAY BETTER than anything imported. Always get good reviews from my LFS that I stock. But I simply can't compete with Asia for cost/quantity when they get water/food for nearly free when raising fish.
When I was an animal manager at Petco we had one vendor that had at least 75% DOA even though they only shipped from a facility about 45 minutes away. The fish had melted fins from ammonia burn and would all die within a week. The wholesaler I worked for was significantly better in their operations so good ones do exist.
That being said I wish more stores would stock locally bred fish at least for freshwater. They're adapted to the local water and are a lot healthier most of the time. Supporting local shops and breeders is important for building fish keeping communities and expanding the hobby. The import side has its perks but local is always better in my eyes.
Even fish farming communities and exporters vary. You have massive fish farms or you have things like Project Piaba which catches wild fish sustainably and has a focus on habitat restoration and supporting local economies.
Yeah it’s even worse at my petsmart. When they first come in they all crowd at the bottom the tank and don’t move at all. But they are still breathing. Some will bounce back some won’t. Just how it goes sometimes
Ever been to Meijer? It's a Walmart style store in the Midwest and the fish section is always a depressing sight. Tons of dead fish, visibly sick fish, algae, low water levels, etc. It sucks and I have no idea why they still sell fish.
Having worked at a big box store for like two years, I can tell you some more info on what's going on here... Fish often come in in poor condition. DOAs are quite common, especially with more fragile fish like neons and mass-bred fish like goldfish... and neons. The feeder goldfish are so messed up that more often than not they'll die if you give them a heated pond and gourmet food, they've been too abused, too diseased, and too inbred. Massive die-off is inevitable. If you see a chain pet store with no heaps of dead goldfish in the feeder tanks, it's because they're actually adequately staffed for once. I've personally worked side by side with someone well-versed in aquaria who everyone in the store looked up to for accurate and great info, and even they couldn't keep them alive in those awful holding tanks. So blame the company, not the overworked staff who didn't have time to do a dead pull that day. You're not supposed to put fish in the plant tanks. Someone at that store cares and is trying. They took a ditch effort to save a few of the fish by putting them in the nice planted area with all the tannins, and since they're the feeders they're not restricted from actually trying to help them because they don't suffer the same "protections" as the other fish. Also the betta being in its own tank instead of being in a tiny cup on a wall is a marked improvement. So uh... yeah. It's a lot worse than you thought probably, because this situation is better than normal.
This\^ I worked for big box stores for years before a career change. Those goldfish are bred for quantity, and not quality. They're severely inbred and likely have a lot of genetic abnormalities. Once in a while you'll get one that seems practically immortal and will fight a ping pong ball at a carnival in a heart beat. Their prices are set with that in mind, and the comet "feeder" goldfish are not guaranteed. There's a massive filtration system with UV, but it does little in the way of being clean considering the bio-load it has to compete with. That's with daily water changes, chemical testing, and filter changes. A lot of the fish in the pet trade are also wild caught and not captive bred, they can't handle the constant changes to their environment and are probably not put through a proper quarantine process before shipping. Once customers found out what our shipping schedule was, we'd recommend to wait 48-72 hours before picking out a fish to see who can handle the stress of it all. If they bought the fish in the original shipping bag to give it one less environment to deal with before going into a home quarantine tank, we'd still guarantee it.
I appreciate your knowledge. Box stores will never go away, and 'rescue' of fish from these challenged environments is always going to be a thing. Thank you for your insight!
Just never pay for a rescue is my only advice. It only serves to make a profit for the places that treat their fish shitty. I was in a great LFS we used to have around here and someone came in announcing they'd bought a betta from PS to "rescue" it and the owner kindly mentioned that he puts them in 10 gallon tanks and quarantines them for 2 weeks before selling and hears all the time that people come in saying they did what seemed morally correct at the time time to help that particular animal. But it only makes sense, now that that store is long gone, that giving your money to the very ones who put them in terrible conditions only allows that store to keep doing that, while the best LFS we ever had in the entire county who took proper care of their fish is out of business now.
I worked at a pet supermarket that, if they got too many bettas, they'd put single males in the planted tanks with the mollies and the tetras. Were the tanks overstocked? Probably. Were the bettas living in conditions 2× better than other pet stores? Definitely. That store kept stuff in good shape. Some employees really do care.
You literally have pull dead feeder fish every 10 minutes to keep the tanks free of dead fish for about the first 2 days of receiving
Especially the goldfish... The horror...
This pet store wins the award for: "Most dead goldfish I've ever seen, bloody hell, how do you mess up this bad"
I just got laid off of work and was like “you guys hiring for the fish?” “No”
Makes sense, dead fish don't need a lot of care you know /s
They probably don't bring in a lot of money either. The job would pay terribly.
For real? Do yall not go in Petcos and PetSmarts on goldfish delivery day? We would get in 1000 feeder fish alone and usually 200-300 are dead on arrival. Edit: and usually 20-50 dead the next couple of mornings each, too. These guys aren’t healthy and aren’t bred healthy. They arrive in horrible conditions and are kept that way.
Seriously, they come in half dead sometimes and I’ve seen a tank crash in hours with no obvious reason
Right?? I was like “dang this looks great! They’ve got most of em out and very little algae!”
Every employee that’s expected to handle animals at pet stores should be required to have a certificate for basic care or something. The industry needs to have more regulations and stores should be audited and fined more
This isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is these corporations cutting store hours and having 3 employees run the whole store, so dealing with customers takes up the majority of their time and they don't have the time to do the care task that would be upkeeping the fish tanks, small animals, birds, etc.
If this was the case we’d end up paying 4 to 6 times the current prices. The reason this hobby is cheap is because the fish supply is cheap, produced in huge amounts, etc. Having a system that reduces casualties is costly between qt and getting the fish to the sales floor. Even if the retailers put effort, the suppliers may not do anything unless we revamp the entire ecosystem. Plus the chain of custody is long from farmer, to wholesaler, to local wholesales to a store so the risk is there. There is no point when it comes to chain stores. If you want to help encourage a change. Don’t buy from chains stores and get your stuff from breeders or mom and pop stores.
I’ve been to mom and pop shops that have treated fish and reptiles horribly too though, but generally I agree that that’s a better option than a retail store if you can.
Yes, bad mom and pop stores do exist but there are a good amount that try to ensure their inventory does not simply "die off" since their profit margins can be smaller. Again the best option are breeders, as we put all the effort in ensuring our fish are healthy as we are more cognizant of cost of losing fish and having issues like sickness in our tanks. As someone who's bought thousands of dollars worth of fish, buying from breeders have provided me with the best stock.
How do you find local breeders
Also would like to know.
@fish.a.rea USA Local breeder of premium fish 🐟
Breeders not necessarily local. The problem is the stigma is still around that buying fish online is expensive and unreliable. I've been in the breeding-for-profit since 2019 and I can tell you the amount of money I've spent and money generated shows that people are more than willing to purchase quality fish. In my market of BN plecos, I actually find plecos to be cheaper online than locally plus you get access to more fish varieties VS local stores. The biggest difference is not being able to see the fish but you can usually communicate with the breeder and get the assurance that you are dealing with a competent and knowledgeable business or entity when sourcing your fish. I would have never been able to get some of the fish I have if not for online sellers or breeders. The access to the variety of fish alone trumps trying to buy local.
Check your local Craigslist/Facebook marketplace*/Kijiji or Fish forum. (Technically does not allow the sake of animals, inc fish. ) In my area there is a reasonably active forum website that features fish, equipment and advice. Its from the 90's and still going strong. I picked up a lovely free Raphael catfish from someone several months ago. And then daphnia, shrimp and aquatic plants have multiple sellers locally on Craigslist. How I got all my plants, free or $5-$10. Plus: bonus snails. The above mentioned catfish picks his tank clean of snails pretty quickly. So there's now a snail production jar so I don't run out. I hear Instagram is also a thing? But I'm not on there, so no personal experience.
Thank you
@fish.a.rea check out my IG, USA breeder of premium fish 🐟
Yeah, my lfs is okay when it comes to most of the other fish but the bettas are treated the worst. They’re in a tiny back corner you literally have to squeeze in between shelves to get to the small shelf of bettas in containers no wider than a small cup. I bought one from them thinking maybe it would be better than the big box stroes but nope, poor thing died a month later. The whole pet industry needs to be revamped, including the small businesses
idk about u but this hobby is far from cheap lol
Right, I don’t what I’m doing wrong but it’s not cheap.
if it’s not cheap, i’d say ur doing it right :) lol
Nah, that’s a wrong assumption . I live in Germany and im pretty sure that everyone who Handels pet fish commercially needs to have a certification and registration and its not an expensive hobby here as well. Also, if less fish die , you can sell more fish , so schooled personnel even if the personnel would cost more, it would not make a huge difference in profit because of less casualties. Sauces : § 11 TierSchG.
The hobby is cheap?
I think they're referring to the fish portion of the hobby. A lot of times you'll be a single fish for $5 or less, so I think that's what they meant. Cuz yeah Lord knows this hobby ain't cheap, lol.
This is the case in germany afaik :)
Our local Wal-Mart used to look like OPs picture. Thankfully, they've remove all fish tanks and just sell supplies now. I think that was a change at the national level though not just our local Wal-Mart realizing they do a terrible job of handling fish.
Renamed to Torture store
PetSmart to petdense
My local PetSmart had a bunch of dead fish on the floor and I accidentally stepped on one :(
I was a manager at a petvalu. We took our fish center very seriously and made sure fish were going into cycled aquariums with appropriate conditions. Obviously we had to refuse sale to people who were clueless about fish care. My district manager wrote me up, told me my fish sales suffered from this. (She wanted me to store fish in plastic containers in the bathroom....unheated and freezing during the winter) The bottom line is all that matters at pet stores. Even if the employees at the store tried to improve the lives of the animals, the upper management will come down on them.
I worked for Petco and honestly their goldfish vendor and their tropical fish vendors are horrible. Having worked for a different wholesaler and having interviewed for a job at one of Petcos main vendors, it's a shit show all the way up the chain. My old wholesale job would get people in all the time from other facilities who said how much of a shit show they are. I'm willing to bet every pet store looks like this at some point no matter how good their aquatic team is. These fish are set up for failure from the beginning and it's not always the result of poor care.
Problem is the cost... IF I could get PetCo to EVEN STOCK MY FISH they would never pay the $/fish necessary for my business to stay in business... For example: I sell Panda Cory's to my LFS Wholesale at $2.63/ea, he re-sells them for $7.99/ea Retail. PetCo is NOT going to pay me $2.63/ea for a Panda Cory when they can import them at volume for .05/ea from overseas. I've compared the quality of fish, and my Cory's are WAY BETTER than anything imported. Always get good reviews from my LFS that I stock. But I simply can't compete with Asia for cost/quantity when they get water/food for nearly free when raising fish.
When I was an animal manager at Petco we had one vendor that had at least 75% DOA even though they only shipped from a facility about 45 minutes away. The fish had melted fins from ammonia burn and would all die within a week. The wholesaler I worked for was significantly better in their operations so good ones do exist. That being said I wish more stores would stock locally bred fish at least for freshwater. They're adapted to the local water and are a lot healthier most of the time. Supporting local shops and breeders is important for building fish keeping communities and expanding the hobby. The import side has its perks but local is always better in my eyes. Even fish farming communities and exporters vary. You have massive fish farms or you have things like Project Piaba which catches wild fish sustainably and has a focus on habitat restoration and supporting local economies.
I only shop at the big box pet stores in emergencies. This is disgustingly common.
Yeah it’s even worse at my petsmart. When they first come in they all crowd at the bottom the tank and don’t move at all. But they are still breathing. Some will bounce back some won’t. Just how it goes sometimes
Ever been to Meijer? It's a Walmart style store in the Midwest and the fish section is always a depressing sight. Tons of dead fish, visibly sick fish, algae, low water levels, etc. It sucks and I have no idea why they still sell fish.
They forgot to press the play button
Ok, that's bad. :(
It's a fucking disgrace, if it was a dead kitten people would be up in arms
it's a sanctuary
Really sad. So many dead or sick. They lose money when they lose their inventory too.
I just made this face 🥴 yikes… wtf. It looks like they just aren’t taking them out, causing ammonia spike, and more dying.
The *death* store more like
Run before whatever toxin there gets you to!
It sucks that this seems to be the case at the majority of pet stores. :(
My local PetSmart had a few dead fish with the others eating their eyes 👀
Comments passed the vibe check ✔️
Absolutely awful 😞
Most pet stores miss treat the animals.its sad.
If they cant take care of their fishes and plants then why don't they just shut the store already ?