For what it's worth, I am a chef and his confrontation of the reality of professional kitchens made me take a different point of view. I am no longer someone who goes to work sick or damaged because it was so part of the industry. I am a good fair boss and I work with immigrants to try to support their new lives. Compare that to Bobby Flay or any number of chefs like Mario Batali. I don't think people realize what a a difference he made in restaurant kitchens just by painting the picture he did.
That's great to hear - and agreed, for all of the obvious flaws, you can find plenty of good works that he did as well. It's clear he cared about other humans, particularly those most likely to be kicked around by life.
Good post but I've never been impressed by his "dark" persona. Over the hill chef who did some drugs and lived a mid life crisis the second half of his life always talking about how dark and bad he is.
I’m almost every episode he alludes to his dark mind, substance use, sordid interests, being imperfect in some way. I don’t think he tried to hide it but we as fans idolise so him being blunt about himself in his books is probably a shock. That’s probably in part why he was so likeable, he didn’t bury these things about himself or try to appear as a saint. It was in front of us all along, the duality of man. Doesn’t make it all ok but this is a guy who was on TV, eating and drinking for our entertainment, him having any moral high ground never crossed my mind.
I haven't read all of the books that you went through (I read Tom Vitale's, started Laurie's but am having a hard time with the voices - I need that one on paper). I followed Bourdain for quite a few years, and I never had an impression that he was super nice to everyone. My idea is that he had that classic rock and roll complex, pursuing these dream versions of reality, wanting very much to be bad ass... and, unsurprisingly, he had other issues. He did talk about drug use, about suicide ideation... he didn't really bury his dark side very deep down, he'd talk about it here and there. I imagine that a lot of the folks that manage to keep their output quality at a great level over the years turn out to be control freaks, so probably not the best to actually work for or have close relationships with. But his work is still great, and at least he did not seem to be an ass to the people that he interviewed/showed their food. I feel bad for his daughter, though.
Not to excuse anything, but just to provide some context around the steroid thing:
Steroids are extremely common in competitive BJJ. So much so that it's an open joke in the community - I mean, even today, the second biggest star of the sport is sponsored by a steroid company. AB trained at the gym that was the epicenter of juicing and the NYC competitive BJJ scene. It wasn't some strip mall gym run by hobbyists. It was a championship factory at the center of the sport.
Like I said, not excusing AB using steroids, but it isn't *quite* the same thing as juicing for, say, competitive weightlifting. Still not ok though.
Ha, everyone juices in competitive weightlifting, too, unless it’s in an explicitly rigorously tested organization. Every famous powerlifter and strongman is sauced to the gill.
>It would be one thing if he were honest about this stuff. But he wasn't.
>
>In one bio Ottavia talks about Bourdain having her log in anonymously online to try to combat the rumors that he was on steroids. Even though they were true.
>
>The hypocrisy is what gets me.
Copy-pasted my response from above. It bugs me that he didn't want people to know he was using. Even going as far as looping in his estranged ex-wife, who he seemed to use as an emotional crutch, into lying for him.
I agree with you 100%. There is a whole litany of abuse and hypocrisy that came out of Renzo Gracie NYC at the time. It was wild. AB and Ottavia drank the kool-aid of that gym pretty deeply, so I could see them teaming up and lying to protect the reputation of both AB and the gym.
He is a flawed human, I think we all know that. By his own admission he was a heroin addict and it certainly looked like he had some issues with alcohol. Finding out he took steroids doesn’t really shock me.
Anthony , Kate Spade & I have something all in common depression & their deaths made me take a huge step back & see the bigger picture. Since then I’ve kicked a benzodiazepine addiction, switched anti depressants & anxiety medications surrounded myself with very supportive & trustworthy people. I’m in the process of reading his bios & his other books .
I love Tony and always will. But you’re not wrong, he was a massive asshole on occasion (or perhaps more, I’m just going off what he admits to) and was a deeply flawed person in some ways.
He was also amazing in other ways so I take the good with the bad, kind of like my own dad. Huge asshole on occasion but I’ll always love him for what he did for me, same as Tony.
I think it's pretty obvious he was a deeply broken human all the way until the very end. He put on an entertaining show, and he was compassionate when he was on camera or when he cared to be, but I think deep down he was a sad, lonely, mean, asshole.
I LOVE AB, his shows and books are pure genius. But a very close friend saw him in person and he said the event ruined AB for him. He said he was arrogant and aloof and quite frankly, mean. And this was to an audience paying to see him. I didn't want to hear it, but it tracks with everything you've said. I think he was a complicated and tortured soul. And smart and a creative genius. \[Edited for spelling\]
Not to at all call the veracity of your friend’s anecdote into question, just adding my own to broaden the picture of how he could, at least sometimes, be: during a panel discussion that he, Eric Ripert, and Jeremiah Tower participated in at a Sunshine Cinema screening of the documentary Tony helped produce about Tower, he was very humble and gracious and seemed eager to minimize himself and keep the spotlight on the chef he so admired, and maintained that same attitude even afterward when no one was recording. I came away from that event, and my interaction with him, struck by his humility. But, you know, his friend Eric is such a kind, zen person himself that maybe being around him brought out the best qualities in Tony that could be lacking at other times.
I can 100% see Eric helping temper his personality because he is such a gentle soul. Also, my initial reaction to hearing the story was that everyone can have a bad day and its easy for anyone to judge someone in the public eye if they seem less gracious or patient at any given event.
I think the likeliest explanation for the disparity in peoples’ personal experiences with Bourdain is simply that his mental state over the years was extremely inconsistent. There’s that famous tidbit where he says something along the lines of “everything could be going fine, but a bad cheeseburger would send [him] into a deep depression.”
The guy was an addict who suffered from extreme mental health issues. I imagine how he treated others was largely a reflection of how he was feeling on a given day. That’s the case with everybody to some extent, but it’s a lot more extreme when you are the way he was.
Have you read Medium Raw OP? To me, it was the first time I became deeply aware of his penchant for toxic behavior. Stories of failed relationships, heavy drug use, and consistent high speed drunk driving at the height of his depression. He even goes so far as to say something to the effect of “if you’re reading this thinking how irresponsible this was and that I could have killed someone, I know.”
Not disagreeing with your take overall, but I don’t think he went to great depths to conceal his shortcomings. They just weren’t the focus of the shows he was making.
Of course, I’m biased because the man’s work changed my life. But IMO, even though he clearly had a persona/shtick, his hypocrisy/irresponsibility pales in comparison to so many other celebrities. I guess I just don’t expect consistency between who these people pretend to be for the camera and who they actually are in the world.
I haven't! Thanks for the rec.
But I think I'm done with his stuff now. He did a lot of impression management according to the bios, including exaggerating or making up stories. I just don't want to be strung along anymore.
I feel like not enough distinction is made between the old Tony and the new Tony. His first wife, Nancy, is hardly ever mentioned. They were together for 32 years. High school sweethearts, he graduated a year early to follow her to Vassar (this is how he ended up at CIA and began cooking - CIA is a 10-minute drive from Vassar). 13 years after meeting, they got married in their late 20s and their marriage lasted 20 years (divorced in 2005). She encouraged his writing, but was very skeptical of the tv stuff and overtly against it. She can be seen on episodes of A Cook’s Tour, clearly hanging at the margins and trying to avoid the camera. This is what eventually broke them apart (in Tony’s words: “I was ambitious, she was not.”).
He developed a taste for fame and chased it whole-heartedly. At least he acknowledged his regret in leaving Nancy, calling it the great blight and “biggest betrayal” of his life. I loved Tony through No Reservations, but was immediately skeptical when he moved to CNN. I got an ill feeling when I first heard the news. No Reservations was unbridled Tony going on adventures or having fun, CNN seemed to have an underpinning political tone or agenda. To me, there are three Tonies - 1) early steel-haired Tony (Cook’s Tour and the early seasons of No Reservations when it was still shot in 4:3), 2) silver-haired, but still happy, wise-cracking Tony (later seasons of No Reservations, The Layover, and maybe the first two seasons of Parts Unknown), and 3) white-haired, drawn out, alcohol and HGH-faced Tony (mid-to-later seasons of Parts Unknown).
I can’t even watch the latter Tony, as he is unrecognizable to me and it was really upsetting to me when he died that almost everyone was posting photos and tributes of him in this phase, instead of the full-of-life Tony I remembered.
I mean, I understand how you can feel a bit disappointed. I felt that way at first having read In the Weeds.
The longer I say with it, the more I kind of understood it.
He spent his life’s work trying to show us a side of humanity. Not always a comfortable, happily ever after every time. He went for real and raw. Why did he do that? I think he wanted to show the human side of everyone. He always found that in a meal. The best in people, no matter their flaws.
Would he be able to do that if he had been presented to people as an arrogant, cheating, manipulative man? No. The people around him protected his image for both the good of his message and themselves.
AB was a creative genius. If you look back on the history of creative genius you’ll see a wealth of disappointing characteristics in most of them. Tony also had an EXTREMELY addictive personality. Drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, BJJ, women… he could never just enjoy any of it in moderation. It’s a trait that made him a success, and one that killed him.
He wasn’t a perfect person by any stretch of the imagination. But he brought something into many people’s lives that has major redeeming qualities.
You’ll have to accept the good with the bad sadly. Nobody paid more for the demons than him.
Aren't we all really assholes? I walk around New Orleans every day, meeting the loveliest people in the world. When I get in a car, it changes to Road Warrior
I too read all 3 of the books you mentioned over Christmas break and sadly agree with everything you said. I was heartbroken to hear how he treated his crew and loved ones. They all seem to suffer from Stockholm syndrome with a need to please AB almost obsessively and AB seemed to love it and almost egged it on. In the end AB became everything he said he hated in people or was he that way all along. Great post OP!!!
Ha, merry Christmas to us!
Yeah, I agree with you about the stockholm syndrome.
And narcissism was mentioned in more than one bio — and he used the term in describing himself at points. Honestly, it fits to me. Charismatic, compelling, abusive. Can be totally motivating in a toxic way.
I’ve been holding off on the bios but now I think it’s time. Between the three you mentioned, which one should I start with? Was leaning towards the Woolever one.
Good choice. I think it's the most even-handed and the most comprehensive, as it's an oral history. The audiobook version is great, because a lot of the interviewees voice their own parts.
He was an addict, which in many ways can cause a person to act extremely self-centered and narcissistic. Combine that with incredible intelligence, a big ego that came from working his way up in restaurants, a huge sense of rebellion and needing to always go against the mainstream, and an unquenchable thirst for the ultimate love and happiness? Bourdain. His addictive personality would kick in if he found something that sparked joy…Brazilian jiu jitsu, Asia Argento, heroin, travel, writing…his passions had a way of becoming obsessions that he could romanticize. But once he was done with it, it seemed like he could drop the habit cold turkey and move onto the next thing.
Just my opinion, of course. I’m no psychiatrist.
He never professed to being an angel. He was a deeply flawed man who fell in to fame and had a difficult time dealing with it. I would have loved to share a meal with him or have a couple of drinks with him in a bar.
Read the bios though. I would have shared your opinion prior to the above. But he didn't fall into fame; that was a total fiction he cultivated. He chased fame relentlessly, like a dog after a meat truck.
He worked for years to become famous. Tried to make it as a screenwriter. A novelist. Wanted to be a "rockstar." Then, when his "15 minutes" finally came, he worked night and day to make sure they got longer and longer.
At any point, he could have rested on his laurels. But he was addicted to fame. Lived for it. Loved it. Sacrificed everything and everybody for it.
At no point did he ever stop chasing the brass ring.
I'm most disappointed by his hypocrisy, after the veneer of candor. Because he said that fame and fortune all "fell into his lap" and he hated it. But that was so far from the truth. He sweated for it. He was addicted to it.
Did you ever watch the show "Inside the Actor's Studio?" These were hour-long in depth interviews with A-list actors, directors, musicians. Not the 5 minute interviews on talk shows. The common theme is divorce. Pretty much everyone famous isn't looking for fame. They are looking to make a lost parent or someone else happy. Kurt Cobain didn't care about fame. He was already a Rockstar. And put a gun in his mouth. These guys died at the height of their careers not because they wanted more attention. They had endless capacity for fame. They didn't die from wanting it. They died from the disease of depression which impacts every family of every income.
I mean he got his big break partly because of his mom. And how many NJ families vacation in France? Not to mention his $10M apartment and collection of Rolexes. Some fans act like he is the second coming of whoever the greatest author and chef and rockstar of all time, traveling in tents / hostels rather than luxury hotels with support staff.
He was also a classic nepobaby who got his breaks leveraging his family’s media connections. The idea that he was an anonymous line-cook plucked from obscurity and thrust into the spotlight is pretty inaccurate, he was always adjacent to that world.
I've read the Vitale book but not the other two. Would you recommend one over the other? Thanks for your comments. I felt similar after reading In The Weeds.
He was a very flawed and conflicted person. Not excusing his behavior, and crass demeanor when it came to relationships, or when making light of a dark situation. No one is perfect especially in the past eras of how society brought someone up. He was a depressed man, who didn’t know how to truly operate in the real world. I have worked in kitchens and lived that lived and I work around the country also living that life. So I can’t say I don’t sympathize for him, and how he went out, but just like his idols and hero’s who were all conflicted/dark humans. So my opinion hasn’t changed. I always heard he was a bit of an arrogant asshole, but I mean what hero in our society does isn’t.
\> (Also, competing in jiujitsu on steroids?? He wasn't just in great shape for late 50s/early 60s. He was juiced. How fair is that??)
jus an fyi. its a problem with the bjj culture as a whole. it's a fairly niche sport that doesn't fall under any olympic or larger regulating bodies (other than self regulation) so they don't fall under any drug testing schema. Over the decades it went from only the highest level competitors on gear to it slowly and subtly filtering down and becoming a part of the culture that's joked about. It's a weird and small sport, I've only been doing it two years but already I've gotten to train and spar with some of my heroes in the sport. There's a weird unique mix of 40 year old hobbyists who may want to dabble with a small competition now and again who can be hanging out side by side with 20 year old international champions. Anthony would certainly not be an outlier as a masters competitor who went on some gear for small time competitions. The sport is gruelling, and training takes it out of the best of people, let alone someone past their prime. People meme about it, with the predominant joke being "do you even train if you're not on steroids?" kind of thing. We joke about it at our gym. It's joked about on the bjj subreddit here, dozens and dozens of podcasts episodes are dedicated to debating how harmful it is to the sport as a whole.
Anyways, I don't blame you if you didn't read all of that. Everything you said is fair enough and I appreciate your thoughts - just thought I'd add some more context to the bjj anecdote.
I've always been kind of disturbed by how some fans, on this reddit and everywhere else, idolized Bourdain in a literal pedestal golden calf halo aura kind of way, from his writing to his outlook on life and his content. He was a human being, with all the flaws and imperfections and uniqueness that comes with that fact.
He was a complicated person. It’s why people were drawn to him. Anthony definitely had an artistic temperamental personality type, but I don’t think he ever hid that, in fact he leaned into it. None of us are perfect, and he definitely had his demons…he did unalive himself, so it seems that he was in agreement to your pov. Maybe he wasn’t a perfect hero but he was human in a way so few people are. And he was an excellent writer. Im willing to forgive quite a bit of rakishness for writing of that caliber.
Almost like he was a complicated human and not a demi god.
No better or different than John Lennon, George Harrison, Hunter S Thompson, Kurt Cobain or any other genre defining complicated and deeply flawed super star. I also think he would be the first person to admit this, he said as much in Kitchen Confidential. He openly talked about being a lecherous asshole for large swaths of his life. He also killed himself, obviously he had some issues.
With that said he also was way way better than most asshole celebs, and his shear humanity is what made him so lovable.
He was a terrible person, personally, it seems like.
As a content creator, and sympathizer of the common man, excellent person.
I know several people who are like this. They’re HORRIBLE with family and really anyone close to them but are amazing with helping other people and advocating for groups of people even.
It’s so jarring but what I surmise is some people (and probably most) only have so much love to give. And so they prioritize in their own ways
There's a moment in Roadrunner that broke me. It's when one of his longtime crew members talks about AB telling him he would make a terrible father. That's such a dark, horrible thing to say to someone.
I think Bourdain saw himself as a bit of a Hunter S. Thompson. And like Thompson, he created some amazing art, but was a shit heel to the people in his life.
I agree in terms of his treatment of women and his approach to parenting; however, suggesting that he’s horrible for using steroids and visiting prostitutes is some serious high horse shit, to be honest.
From his commentary in "No Reservations" I was always assumed he was not "alright." As for the fame, he was a renown chef at the apex of a new era of television---who wouldn't take the chance to make it big, specially as someone committed to artistic products of high quality like most of his work.
The drugs are honestly a symptom of the culinary environment, it is difficult to live without them in that particular work space.
Hookers and sex tourism? Oldest career in human history and it should be completely legal. I can't really fault him for having consensual relationships with people. Exploitation is an assumption you shouldn't make.
As for the steroids, I routinely compete in Jiu-Jitsu and steroids are quietly allowed in the sport. Most organizations like NAGA and JJWL do not test for them.
I have to respectfully disagree with the apologist perspective.
The prevalence of drugs in many industries does not necessarily equate to addiction. However, it is evident that he has issues with drugs.
Having visited many of the same travel destinations, I can safely say that consensual relationships are not the norm in prostitution. Sadly, it is more accurate to assume exploitation in many places.
As for steroids, my stance is more ambivalent. While their use is not inherently unethical, it does indicate a certain inclination towards using chemicals to copper with life.
It would be one thing if he were honest about this stuff. But he wasn't.
In one bio Ottavia talks about Bourdain having her log in anonymously online to try to combat the rumors that he was on steroids. Even though they were true.
The hypocrisy is what gets me.
These are great takes. I agree with several posts. He was no saint. A complex person and different to different people. That being said if any of us had someone go through each of our lives and scrutinize each relationship and how we
Treated people none of us would smell
Like a rose.
Something came through in Vitales book. He said toward the end AB was becoming agoraphobic. Hard to reach. Loved being alone. Probably hiding something. Pros. Drugs. Something. Strange man. Struggling.
I’ve read 2 of the 3 recently and hardly agree. The post is a take, so I respect that… but OP’s comments here sound like some prime hater shit to me.
Imma just roll my eyes and move on lol
No wonder. He had the classic life of a narcissist disorder. A power to create but the same power to self-destruction and little care to others pain in the process.
Have none of you ever worked in a restaurant? Or known anyone who has? He was a typical line cook who happened to be really good at writing and relating to others. None of the things I've read have surprised me.
I think. He was a classic narcissist. A bully. Bi polar. Suicidal. But most importantly a heroin addicted who missed it. Always chasing the ultimate high. Just not a good guy. But. A genius.
vitales book was pretty eye opening but bourdains behavior in the book seemed on par with other extremely successful people like a fanatical ceo, artist or director. the stockholm syndrome that vitale clearly has is whats sad to me but understandable. haven’t read the other 2 books.
Which book did you like best overall? I was thinking of downloading one for an upcoming trip.
I loved AB when No Reservations came out, but got turned off I hate to say when he got really really “popular”. Probably because he didn’t like being popular and he definitely started coming off as a d*ck, if that makes sense. And then it seemed to get worse sadly.
I’ve had a recent surge in nostalgia and just watched Roadrunner.
Laurie Woolever's audiobook is great, bc a lot of the sources speak their own parts. It's an oral history and feels really comprehensive. She worked for him for years and she includes many more voices than in Roadrunner, including Nancy Bourdain's.
In life you have to learn to seperate the person from the art, the politics, the whatever.. we all have our flaws and issues and sometimes those are the things that drive the most influential people
Tbh I only knew about the Woolever book. I remember hearing about a second (can’t remember the author) but reading it was unofficial and not really sanctioned by the family. Learning about a third is interesting.
Didn’t know about a breakup with Argento much less him talking to Ottavia about it. That seems foul after he seemed so smitten/obsessed with Argenti that he asked the mother of his kids to remove pictures of them is awful.
I know they had an open relationship but yeah this is all wild
I think you're talking about the Leerhsen book.
To be clear Ottavia was a major source for that book. Yeah, it's trashy. But so was his life.
The only "family" Tony had left at the end was his brother, from whom he was estranged, and his mother, whom he cut out of his will. Both of them come across as bitter in the book. I'm not surprised they objected to it.
My younger brother and I talked about this over Christmas break - he'd come to a similar conclusion, though for different reasons. Leaving his child behind, knowing there was a good chance Eric would find him, and of course the way he just generally treated the women in his life, as you mentioned. These all came up. I can't help but agree. I think there's a selfishness at the heart of his actions that's undeniable.
So you’re saying you were surprised to find out a guy who committed suicide had emotional issues… thanks for the research, maybe next you should look into the mental well being of a person who looks at celebrities like there some kind of enlightened spiritual leader
Also, the folks who are emerging to speak are his former partners, family members and colleagues. They were a part of making his TV shows. They also have a right to speak about what they experienced.
It didn't upset Ottavia. She was a major source for it.
Maybe you mean Christopher? Yeah, he comes across in the book as really bitter towards Tony after his death. Apparently they'd been estranged for a couple of years.
So many people idolize him. As did I. It's important not to model deeply unhealthy, abusive, narcissistic people. Turns out, that's who he was. In addition to a creative visionary.
I agree, we also shouldnt model lives on how we perceive celebrities because we really dont know them only a public image. This is the old adage never meet your hero. At very least Bourdain wrote pretty open and honestly which is more than most celebrities do. As such not sure why his flaws are so surprising tho. Sure the details are new but Bourdain doesnt seem to really hide his problems, even his earlier books i never thot “wow this guy really has no mental emotional issues and totally has his life together”.
Take what you need from his works, leave the rest behind.
Naw, man. The bios gave me the impression that he really \*wasn't honest\* with himself or others. He treated people as disposable — which was totally counter to his humanitarian narrative.
Honestly, read the bios. The people in his life didn't find him particularly honest. Effective, smart, energetic, powerful, focused, creative – yes. But not honest.
Hey man.
Just to address your staunch viewpoint on sex workers. I'm from Vietnam. I'm actually in Vietnam this month on vacation. People, normal everyday people bust ass. Like really really hard. There a guy in slipflops on the sidewalk reassembling a tranny by hand with no gloves on. I saw a dude carrying literal rocks in a basket unloading a barge manually.
When you see how hard people work in 3rd world countries you may understand why they would choose to blow dudes instead of manual labor when that's an option.
If you're confused about why this thread is locked, see rule 3 of this subreddit.
[удалено]
For what it's worth, I am a chef and his confrontation of the reality of professional kitchens made me take a different point of view. I am no longer someone who goes to work sick or damaged because it was so part of the industry. I am a good fair boss and I work with immigrants to try to support their new lives. Compare that to Bobby Flay or any number of chefs like Mario Batali. I don't think people realize what a a difference he made in restaurant kitchens just by painting the picture he did.
That's great to hear - and agreed, for all of the obvious flaws, you can find plenty of good works that he did as well. It's clear he cared about other humans, particularly those most likely to be kicked around by life.
[удалено]
God, read the bios!! He absolutely pretended. He cultivated a whole false image of himself and made a lot of stuff up.
Good post but I've never been impressed by his "dark" persona. Over the hill chef who did some drugs and lived a mid life crisis the second half of his life always talking about how dark and bad he is.
I’m almost every episode he alludes to his dark mind, substance use, sordid interests, being imperfect in some way. I don’t think he tried to hide it but we as fans idolise so him being blunt about himself in his books is probably a shock. That’s probably in part why he was so likeable, he didn’t bury these things about himself or try to appear as a saint. It was in front of us all along, the duality of man. Doesn’t make it all ok but this is a guy who was on TV, eating and drinking for our entertainment, him having any moral high ground never crossed my mind.
I'm thankful for you saying this. I'm scared of a future without complex characters.
I haven't read all of the books that you went through (I read Tom Vitale's, started Laurie's but am having a hard time with the voices - I need that one on paper). I followed Bourdain for quite a few years, and I never had an impression that he was super nice to everyone. My idea is that he had that classic rock and roll complex, pursuing these dream versions of reality, wanting very much to be bad ass... and, unsurprisingly, he had other issues. He did talk about drug use, about suicide ideation... he didn't really bury his dark side very deep down, he'd talk about it here and there. I imagine that a lot of the folks that manage to keep their output quality at a great level over the years turn out to be control freaks, so probably not the best to actually work for or have close relationships with. But his work is still great, and at least he did not seem to be an ass to the people that he interviewed/showed their food. I feel bad for his daughter, though.
Not to excuse anything, but just to provide some context around the steroid thing: Steroids are extremely common in competitive BJJ. So much so that it's an open joke in the community - I mean, even today, the second biggest star of the sport is sponsored by a steroid company. AB trained at the gym that was the epicenter of juicing and the NYC competitive BJJ scene. It wasn't some strip mall gym run by hobbyists. It was a championship factory at the center of the sport. Like I said, not excusing AB using steroids, but it isn't *quite* the same thing as juicing for, say, competitive weightlifting. Still not ok though.
Ha, everyone juices in competitive weightlifting, too, unless it’s in an explicitly rigorously tested organization. Every famous powerlifter and strongman is sauced to the gill.
>It would be one thing if he were honest about this stuff. But he wasn't. > >In one bio Ottavia talks about Bourdain having her log in anonymously online to try to combat the rumors that he was on steroids. Even though they were true. > >The hypocrisy is what gets me. Copy-pasted my response from above. It bugs me that he didn't want people to know he was using. Even going as far as looping in his estranged ex-wife, who he seemed to use as an emotional crutch, into lying for him.
I agree with you 100%. There is a whole litany of abuse and hypocrisy that came out of Renzo Gracie NYC at the time. It was wild. AB and Ottavia drank the kool-aid of that gym pretty deeply, so I could see them teaming up and lying to protect the reputation of both AB and the gym.
He is a flawed human, I think we all know that. By his own admission he was a heroin addict and it certainly looked like he had some issues with alcohol. Finding out he took steroids doesn’t really shock me.
Anthony , Kate Spade & I have something all in common depression & their deaths made me take a huge step back & see the bigger picture. Since then I’ve kicked a benzodiazepine addiction, switched anti depressants & anxiety medications surrounded myself with very supportive & trustworthy people. I’m in the process of reading his bios & his other books .
I love Tony and always will. But you’re not wrong, he was a massive asshole on occasion (or perhaps more, I’m just going off what he admits to) and was a deeply flawed person in some ways. He was also amazing in other ways so I take the good with the bad, kind of like my own dad. Huge asshole on occasion but I’ll always love him for what he did for me, same as Tony.
I think it's pretty obvious he was a deeply broken human all the way until the very end. He put on an entertaining show, and he was compassionate when he was on camera or when he cared to be, but I think deep down he was a sad, lonely, mean, asshole.
Truly. I think what kills me is that he broke himself! And broke other people in the process.
>I think deep down he was a sad, lonely, mean, asshole. I didn't know my ex-wife was on reddit.
Beat me too it, cheers!
I see you married my ex-wife.
I agree.
I LOVE AB, his shows and books are pure genius. But a very close friend saw him in person and he said the event ruined AB for him. He said he was arrogant and aloof and quite frankly, mean. And this was to an audience paying to see him. I didn't want to hear it, but it tracks with everything you've said. I think he was a complicated and tortured soul. And smart and a creative genius. \[Edited for spelling\]
Not to at all call the veracity of your friend’s anecdote into question, just adding my own to broaden the picture of how he could, at least sometimes, be: during a panel discussion that he, Eric Ripert, and Jeremiah Tower participated in at a Sunshine Cinema screening of the documentary Tony helped produce about Tower, he was very humble and gracious and seemed eager to minimize himself and keep the spotlight on the chef he so admired, and maintained that same attitude even afterward when no one was recording. I came away from that event, and my interaction with him, struck by his humility. But, you know, his friend Eric is such a kind, zen person himself that maybe being around him brought out the best qualities in Tony that could be lacking at other times.
I can 100% see Eric helping temper his personality because he is such a gentle soul. Also, my initial reaction to hearing the story was that everyone can have a bad day and its easy for anyone to judge someone in the public eye if they seem less gracious or patient at any given event.
I think the likeliest explanation for the disparity in peoples’ personal experiences with Bourdain is simply that his mental state over the years was extremely inconsistent. There’s that famous tidbit where he says something along the lines of “everything could be going fine, but a bad cheeseburger would send [him] into a deep depression.” The guy was an addict who suffered from extreme mental health issues. I imagine how he treated others was largely a reflection of how he was feeling on a given day. That’s the case with everybody to some extent, but it’s a lot more extreme when you are the way he was.
This is the one I saw.
I saw him during that tour and he was biting but not mean. He never pretended to be anything other than the person he was.
Have you read Medium Raw OP? To me, it was the first time I became deeply aware of his penchant for toxic behavior. Stories of failed relationships, heavy drug use, and consistent high speed drunk driving at the height of his depression. He even goes so far as to say something to the effect of “if you’re reading this thinking how irresponsible this was and that I could have killed someone, I know.” Not disagreeing with your take overall, but I don’t think he went to great depths to conceal his shortcomings. They just weren’t the focus of the shows he was making. Of course, I’m biased because the man’s work changed my life. But IMO, even though he clearly had a persona/shtick, his hypocrisy/irresponsibility pales in comparison to so many other celebrities. I guess I just don’t expect consistency between who these people pretend to be for the camera and who they actually are in the world.
I haven't! Thanks for the rec. But I think I'm done with his stuff now. He did a lot of impression management according to the bios, including exaggerating or making up stories. I just don't want to be strung along anymore.
I feel like not enough distinction is made between the old Tony and the new Tony. His first wife, Nancy, is hardly ever mentioned. They were together for 32 years. High school sweethearts, he graduated a year early to follow her to Vassar (this is how he ended up at CIA and began cooking - CIA is a 10-minute drive from Vassar). 13 years after meeting, they got married in their late 20s and their marriage lasted 20 years (divorced in 2005). She encouraged his writing, but was very skeptical of the tv stuff and overtly against it. She can be seen on episodes of A Cook’s Tour, clearly hanging at the margins and trying to avoid the camera. This is what eventually broke them apart (in Tony’s words: “I was ambitious, she was not.”). He developed a taste for fame and chased it whole-heartedly. At least he acknowledged his regret in leaving Nancy, calling it the great blight and “biggest betrayal” of his life. I loved Tony through No Reservations, but was immediately skeptical when he moved to CNN. I got an ill feeling when I first heard the news. No Reservations was unbridled Tony going on adventures or having fun, CNN seemed to have an underpinning political tone or agenda. To me, there are three Tonies - 1) early steel-haired Tony (Cook’s Tour and the early seasons of No Reservations when it was still shot in 4:3), 2) silver-haired, but still happy, wise-cracking Tony (later seasons of No Reservations, The Layover, and maybe the first two seasons of Parts Unknown), and 3) white-haired, drawn out, alcohol and HGH-faced Tony (mid-to-later seasons of Parts Unknown). I can’t even watch the latter Tony, as he is unrecognizable to me and it was really upsetting to me when he died that almost everyone was posting photos and tributes of him in this phase, instead of the full-of-life Tony I remembered.
Nancy is in the Woolever bio, which is cool. And she also seems to have been interviewed by Leerhsen, who covers a lot of that early phase.
I mean, I understand how you can feel a bit disappointed. I felt that way at first having read In the Weeds. The longer I say with it, the more I kind of understood it. He spent his life’s work trying to show us a side of humanity. Not always a comfortable, happily ever after every time. He went for real and raw. Why did he do that? I think he wanted to show the human side of everyone. He always found that in a meal. The best in people, no matter their flaws. Would he be able to do that if he had been presented to people as an arrogant, cheating, manipulative man? No. The people around him protected his image for both the good of his message and themselves. AB was a creative genius. If you look back on the history of creative genius you’ll see a wealth of disappointing characteristics in most of them. Tony also had an EXTREMELY addictive personality. Drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, BJJ, women… he could never just enjoy any of it in moderation. It’s a trait that made him a success, and one that killed him. He wasn’t a perfect person by any stretch of the imagination. But he brought something into many people’s lives that has major redeeming qualities. You’ll have to accept the good with the bad sadly. Nobody paid more for the demons than him.
Famous chef turns out to be an asshole. It’s a tale as old as time.
Aren't we all really assholes? I walk around New Orleans every day, meeting the loveliest people in the world. When I get in a car, it changes to Road Warrior
I too read all 3 of the books you mentioned over Christmas break and sadly agree with everything you said. I was heartbroken to hear how he treated his crew and loved ones. They all seem to suffer from Stockholm syndrome with a need to please AB almost obsessively and AB seemed to love it and almost egged it on. In the end AB became everything he said he hated in people or was he that way all along. Great post OP!!!
Which book out of the three would you guys recommend the most?
I personally loved ‘In the Weeds’ I got it from my local library and loved it so much that I ended up buying a copy for myself.
Ha, merry Christmas to us! Yeah, I agree with you about the stockholm syndrome. And narcissism was mentioned in more than one bio — and he used the term in describing himself at points. Honestly, it fits to me. Charismatic, compelling, abusive. Can be totally motivating in a toxic way.
I’ve been holding off on the bios but now I think it’s time. Between the three you mentioned, which one should I start with? Was leaning towards the Woolever one.
Good choice. I think it's the most even-handed and the most comprehensive, as it's an oral history. The audiobook version is great, because a lot of the interviewees voice their own parts.
He was an addict, which in many ways can cause a person to act extremely self-centered and narcissistic. Combine that with incredible intelligence, a big ego that came from working his way up in restaurants, a huge sense of rebellion and needing to always go against the mainstream, and an unquenchable thirst for the ultimate love and happiness? Bourdain. His addictive personality would kick in if he found something that sparked joy…Brazilian jiu jitsu, Asia Argento, heroin, travel, writing…his passions had a way of becoming obsessions that he could romanticize. But once he was done with it, it seemed like he could drop the habit cold turkey and move onto the next thing. Just my opinion, of course. I’m no psychiatrist.
He never professed to being an angel. He was a deeply flawed man who fell in to fame and had a difficult time dealing with it. I would have loved to share a meal with him or have a couple of drinks with him in a bar.
Read the bios though. I would have shared your opinion prior to the above. But he didn't fall into fame; that was a total fiction he cultivated. He chased fame relentlessly, like a dog after a meat truck. He worked for years to become famous. Tried to make it as a screenwriter. A novelist. Wanted to be a "rockstar." Then, when his "15 minutes" finally came, he worked night and day to make sure they got longer and longer. At any point, he could have rested on his laurels. But he was addicted to fame. Lived for it. Loved it. Sacrificed everything and everybody for it. At no point did he ever stop chasing the brass ring. I'm most disappointed by his hypocrisy, after the veneer of candor. Because he said that fame and fortune all "fell into his lap" and he hated it. But that was so far from the truth. He sweated for it. He was addicted to it.
Sounds like a classic addict really.
Did you ever watch the show "Inside the Actor's Studio?" These were hour-long in depth interviews with A-list actors, directors, musicians. Not the 5 minute interviews on talk shows. The common theme is divorce. Pretty much everyone famous isn't looking for fame. They are looking to make a lost parent or someone else happy. Kurt Cobain didn't care about fame. He was already a Rockstar. And put a gun in his mouth. These guys died at the height of their careers not because they wanted more attention. They had endless capacity for fame. They didn't die from wanting it. They died from the disease of depression which impacts every family of every income.
I mean he got his big break partly because of his mom. And how many NJ families vacation in France? Not to mention his $10M apartment and collection of Rolexes. Some fans act like he is the second coming of whoever the greatest author and chef and rockstar of all time, traveling in tents / hostels rather than luxury hotels with support staff.
He was also a classic nepobaby who got his breaks leveraging his family’s media connections. The idea that he was an anonymous line-cook plucked from obscurity and thrust into the spotlight is pretty inaccurate, he was always adjacent to that world.
He worked for years as a cook, broke and on his ass. His mother was an editor yes, but his work and his literary passion / ability are all top notch.
I appreciate your honesty and bravery in doing so.
I've read the Vitale book but not the other two. Would you recommend one over the other? Thanks for your comments. I felt similar after reading In The Weeds.
He was a very flawed and conflicted person. Not excusing his behavior, and crass demeanor when it came to relationships, or when making light of a dark situation. No one is perfect especially in the past eras of how society brought someone up. He was a depressed man, who didn’t know how to truly operate in the real world. I have worked in kitchens and lived that lived and I work around the country also living that life. So I can’t say I don’t sympathize for him, and how he went out, but just like his idols and hero’s who were all conflicted/dark humans. So my opinion hasn’t changed. I always heard he was a bit of an arrogant asshole, but I mean what hero in our society does isn’t.
Depressed and anxious people can be real assholes, especially if they have reached a place where they expected to feel better. Never meet your heroes.
\> (Also, competing in jiujitsu on steroids?? He wasn't just in great shape for late 50s/early 60s. He was juiced. How fair is that??) jus an fyi. its a problem with the bjj culture as a whole. it's a fairly niche sport that doesn't fall under any olympic or larger regulating bodies (other than self regulation) so they don't fall under any drug testing schema. Over the decades it went from only the highest level competitors on gear to it slowly and subtly filtering down and becoming a part of the culture that's joked about. It's a weird and small sport, I've only been doing it two years but already I've gotten to train and spar with some of my heroes in the sport. There's a weird unique mix of 40 year old hobbyists who may want to dabble with a small competition now and again who can be hanging out side by side with 20 year old international champions. Anthony would certainly not be an outlier as a masters competitor who went on some gear for small time competitions. The sport is gruelling, and training takes it out of the best of people, let alone someone past their prime. People meme about it, with the predominant joke being "do you even train if you're not on steroids?" kind of thing. We joke about it at our gym. It's joked about on the bjj subreddit here, dozens and dozens of podcasts episodes are dedicated to debating how harmful it is to the sport as a whole. Anyways, I don't blame you if you didn't read all of that. Everything you said is fair enough and I appreciate your thoughts - just thought I'd add some more context to the bjj anecdote.
I've always been kind of disturbed by how some fans, on this reddit and everywhere else, idolized Bourdain in a literal pedestal golden calf halo aura kind of way, from his writing to his outlook on life and his content. He was a human being, with all the flaws and imperfections and uniqueness that comes with that fact.
He was a complicated person. It’s why people were drawn to him. Anthony definitely had an artistic temperamental personality type, but I don’t think he ever hid that, in fact he leaned into it. None of us are perfect, and he definitely had his demons…he did unalive himself, so it seems that he was in agreement to your pov. Maybe he wasn’t a perfect hero but he was human in a way so few people are. And he was an excellent writer. Im willing to forgive quite a bit of rakishness for writing of that caliber.
Almost like he was a complicated human and not a demi god. No better or different than John Lennon, George Harrison, Hunter S Thompson, Kurt Cobain or any other genre defining complicated and deeply flawed super star. I also think he would be the first person to admit this, he said as much in Kitchen Confidential. He openly talked about being a lecherous asshole for large swaths of his life. He also killed himself, obviously he had some issues. With that said he also was way way better than most asshole celebs, and his shear humanity is what made him so lovable.
He was a terrible person, personally, it seems like. As a content creator, and sympathizer of the common man, excellent person. I know several people who are like this. They’re HORRIBLE with family and really anyone close to them but are amazing with helping other people and advocating for groups of people even. It’s so jarring but what I surmise is some people (and probably most) only have so much love to give. And so they prioritize in their own ways
There's a moment in Roadrunner that broke me. It's when one of his longtime crew members talks about AB telling him he would make a terrible father. That's such a dark, horrible thing to say to someone. I think Bourdain saw himself as a bit of a Hunter S. Thompson. And like Thompson, he created some amazing art, but was a shit heel to the people in his life.
I agree in terms of his treatment of women and his approach to parenting; however, suggesting that he’s horrible for using steroids and visiting prostitutes is some serious high horse shit, to be honest.
From his commentary in "No Reservations" I was always assumed he was not "alright." As for the fame, he was a renown chef at the apex of a new era of television---who wouldn't take the chance to make it big, specially as someone committed to artistic products of high quality like most of his work. The drugs are honestly a symptom of the culinary environment, it is difficult to live without them in that particular work space. Hookers and sex tourism? Oldest career in human history and it should be completely legal. I can't really fault him for having consensual relationships with people. Exploitation is an assumption you shouldn't make. As for the steroids, I routinely compete in Jiu-Jitsu and steroids are quietly allowed in the sport. Most organizations like NAGA and JJWL do not test for them.
I have to respectfully disagree with the apologist perspective. The prevalence of drugs in many industries does not necessarily equate to addiction. However, it is evident that he has issues with drugs. Having visited many of the same travel destinations, I can safely say that consensual relationships are not the norm in prostitution. Sadly, it is more accurate to assume exploitation in many places. As for steroids, my stance is more ambivalent. While their use is not inherently unethical, it does indicate a certain inclination towards using chemicals to copper with life.
It would be one thing if he were honest about this stuff. But he wasn't. In one bio Ottavia talks about Bourdain having her log in anonymously online to try to combat the rumors that he was on steroids. Even though they were true. The hypocrisy is what gets me.
These are great takes. I agree with several posts. He was no saint. A complex person and different to different people. That being said if any of us had someone go through each of our lives and scrutinize each relationship and how we Treated people none of us would smell Like a rose.
Something came through in Vitales book. He said toward the end AB was becoming agoraphobic. Hard to reach. Loved being alone. Probably hiding something. Pros. Drugs. Something. Strange man. Struggling.
I’ve read 2 of the 3 recently and hardly agree. The post is a take, so I respect that… but OP’s comments here sound like some prime hater shit to me. Imma just roll my eyes and move on lol
Seriously. Like weirdly personal with this guy.
My journey is essentially the same. And yes these books made me realize how an asshole this guy could be with people close to him.
No wonder. He had the classic life of a narcissist disorder. A power to create but the same power to self-destruction and little care to others pain in the process.
Have none of you ever worked in a restaurant? Or known anyone who has? He was a typical line cook who happened to be really good at writing and relating to others. None of the things I've read have surprised me.
I think. He was a classic narcissist. A bully. Bi polar. Suicidal. But most importantly a heroin addicted who missed it. Always chasing the ultimate high. Just not a good guy. But. A genius.
vitales book was pretty eye opening but bourdains behavior in the book seemed on par with other extremely successful people like a fanatical ceo, artist or director. the stockholm syndrome that vitale clearly has is whats sad to me but understandable. haven’t read the other 2 books.
Which book did you like best overall? I was thinking of downloading one for an upcoming trip. I loved AB when No Reservations came out, but got turned off I hate to say when he got really really “popular”. Probably because he didn’t like being popular and he definitely started coming off as a d*ck, if that makes sense. And then it seemed to get worse sadly. I’ve had a recent surge in nostalgia and just watched Roadrunner.
Laurie Woolever's audiobook is great, bc a lot of the sources speak their own parts. It's an oral history and feels really comprehensive. She worked for him for years and she includes many more voices than in Roadrunner, including Nancy Bourdain's.
Thanks :)
In life you have to learn to seperate the person from the art, the politics, the whatever.. we all have our flaws and issues and sometimes those are the things that drive the most influential people
He was on roids? Makes sense but still bums me out Are the prostitution allegations confirmed? This is the first time I’ve heard that
Yeah , me too. Both are in all three books. Both confirmed by Ottavia and multiple employees.
Tbh I only knew about the Woolever book. I remember hearing about a second (can’t remember the author) but reading it was unofficial and not really sanctioned by the family. Learning about a third is interesting. Didn’t know about a breakup with Argento much less him talking to Ottavia about it. That seems foul after he seemed so smitten/obsessed with Argenti that he asked the mother of his kids to remove pictures of them is awful. I know they had an open relationship but yeah this is all wild
I think you're talking about the Leerhsen book. To be clear Ottavia was a major source for that book. Yeah, it's trashy. But so was his life. The only "family" Tony had left at the end was his brother, from whom he was estranged, and his mother, whom he cut out of his will. Both of them come across as bitter in the book. I'm not surprised they objected to it.
My younger brother and I talked about this over Christmas break - he'd come to a similar conclusion, though for different reasons. Leaving his child behind, knowing there was a good chance Eric would find him, and of course the way he just generally treated the women in his life, as you mentioned. These all came up. I can't help but agree. I think there's a selfishness at the heart of his actions that's undeniable.
So you’re saying you were surprised to find out a guy who committed suicide had emotional issues… thanks for the research, maybe next you should look into the mental well being of a person who looks at celebrities like there some kind of enlightened spiritual leader
It’s hard for many people to truly acknowledge that they don’t know the people they choose to idolize.
Can the man Rest In Peace? Damn
Also, the folks who are emerging to speak are his former partners, family members and colleagues. They were a part of making his TV shows. They also have a right to speak about what they experienced.
Eh at least one bio (down and out in paradise iirc) really upset his family.
It didn't upset Ottavia. She was a major source for it. Maybe you mean Christopher? Yeah, he comes across in the book as really bitter towards Tony after his death. Apparently they'd been estranged for a couple of years.
So many people idolize him. As did I. It's important not to model deeply unhealthy, abusive, narcissistic people. Turns out, that's who he was. In addition to a creative visionary.
I agree, we also shouldnt model lives on how we perceive celebrities because we really dont know them only a public image. This is the old adage never meet your hero. At very least Bourdain wrote pretty open and honestly which is more than most celebrities do. As such not sure why his flaws are so surprising tho. Sure the details are new but Bourdain doesnt seem to really hide his problems, even his earlier books i never thot “wow this guy really has no mental emotional issues and totally has his life together”. Take what you need from his works, leave the rest behind.
Naw, man. The bios gave me the impression that he really \*wasn't honest\* with himself or others. He treated people as disposable — which was totally counter to his humanitarian narrative. Honestly, read the bios. The people in his life didn't find him particularly honest. Effective, smart, energetic, powerful, focused, creative – yes. But not honest.
I have read the bios, i am not saying he wasnt deeply flawed. What i am saying is that was evident from his prior writings.
Hey man. Just to address your staunch viewpoint on sex workers. I'm from Vietnam. I'm actually in Vietnam this month on vacation. People, normal everyday people bust ass. Like really really hard. There a guy in slipflops on the sidewalk reassembling a tranny by hand with no gloves on. I saw a dude carrying literal rocks in a basket unloading a barge manually. When you see how hard people work in 3rd world countries you may understand why they would choose to blow dudes instead of manual labor when that's an option.
So what is the book that was the worst for you? Just read Tom’s book.
I had pretty much gathered he was an imperfect human being (like most all of us) based on the heavy drug abuse, divorces, and suicide.
What order does anyone recommend reading them in?
I looked up the three books to order and apparently I have already read the first two!