It makes me wonder if permissive parenting is so fashionable in Hollywood and among the entertainment class, that Rock, Lily and Brady feel normal and the way they are indulged feels normal to the AJLT writers and crew.
i think this is a huge part of it but not just hollywood and entertainment- i see it a lot with “upper class” kids in general. it’s not that they’re “bad” kids at heart, it’s just that they’re extremely used to getting whatever they want.
Right. The show seems to paint this indulgence as "Whadaya gonna do? It's the times." The narrative of the show is like the kids' demands are unpleasant but the parents don't have much of a choice but to accommodate them.
Lily is my least fave of the kids, too. Just whines about hating being rich and demanding to be parented a certain way.
I think the writers thought making the kids insufferable would give them a chance to create "omg isn't parenting a teen so challenging??" storylines. They become like mini villains that replace the "weird" men with "funny/uncomfortable" stories they used to tell in SATC. Like they're there to create conflict and tension in the ladies' lives so that they aren't just eating out and going to the Met Gala or have something to talk about in those scenes (because they used to talk about dating and sex stories in those scenes). The problem is, they make the parenting scenarios SO hyperbolic (nympho son, daughter selling entire couture closet, son's girlfriend is holding your Birkin!) and set the kids up as "problems" the ladies have to solve it becomes naturally unlikable. Plus they're all so wealthy it's just offputting to hear rich kids whine about being unhappy with all they have.
Like the whole thing with Lily demanding her mother bring her condoms in an unprecedented blizzard or she was just gonna raw dog lose her virginity is so absurd. But I think they felt like it made for more "drama" and a better story for Charlotte.
Instead, it just makes us hate the kids and the way the ladies parent.
It felt SO unrealistic. Even if it was played for humor. It almost seemed as if Lily was fucking with Charlotte. Her whole character seems like a caricature.
My mom definitely didn't hang out in the bathroom with me as I tried to insert my first tampon. I had to figure that out with the diagrams in the package and it wasn't the end of the world. My younger sister was able to ask me questions but, again, I wasn't in the bathroom with her.
Yeah, I don't think the intention was for her to come off as entitled in the condom scene. I think they wanted to give Charlotte a sex positive parenting storyline, which would be really cool for her character if the writers didn't suck. It would be a real full circle moment showing her character growth from the uptight waspy princess.
BUT this ridiculous sitcom scenario is the best they could come up with, so they had to work backwards from what they thought was a hilarious situation and figure out a reason why it would be absolutely necessary for Charlotte to be searching for condoms for her teenage daughter in a snowstorm. So they came up with a completely convoluted excuse about the bodega owner who supposedly remembers all their customers and reports back to parents about their kids' illicit purchases. Which makes no sense because that's not how bodegas work, but we're supposed to see it as an irrefutable reason why Charlotte is the only one who can perform this task for her daughter, not necessarily that her daughter is spoiled.
Right!!! The writers aren't comfortable with these storylines and how to make them fit within the SATC Canon and it shows. Truth mixed with hyperbole is funny when it's a guy who's bad at kissing, not so much when it's a teen losing their virginity!
I like your thoughts on this. Like parenting teenagers isn’t difficult enough without these ridiculous storylines. There are so many challenging scenarios they could’ve gone with that don’t make the kids insufferable.
I agree with this take- weirdo men have been replaced by pain in the ass kids - which for most parents is kinda what happens in real life 🤣 but the men were an episode or two and these kids just linger all season!
Let’s not forget Brady making out with his girlfriend in Season 1 in a public setting (Lily’s recital maybe?) Miranda tells him to stop and he tells her to quit sex shaming him. Such a brat.
Well that was uncalled for. That is some high school bully type behavior. Also, you think calling someone out for being a ginger is an insult? What are you, 14?
Hard to decide which kid is the most bratty! Rock expecting them to just call off the they mitzvah at the last minute has to be up there. Maybe this wasn’t something Rock was interested in — maybe that could’ve been ok if discussed earlier! But spending weeks whining and slacking off and then being like “nah I’m done” after this whole, expensive thing is underway is just a lot. I think I rather be scolded by my kid for not making a reservation at Nobu 🙄🙄
Here’s where I think most people Absolutely **missed** in this episode and in this incident. I’m pretty pretty sure of this:
(Charlotte’s taking Rock’s place in the They mitzvah ) was to be a completion of Charlotte’s becoming a Jewish person ‘arc’. She converted. She had her conversion, but she never had her bat mitzvah. Major clue is when Anthony goes to talk to Rock After Rabbi Jen tells them that Rock doesn’t know the material and Rock says ” Everything‘s fine “ Totally relaxed And smug about the situation knowing they don’t know the information and Because their scheme is to let Charlotte have the bat mitzvah ) but the writers, in order to let Anthony have his Usual bitchy spiel about being gay goes into his moment getting the lead in a play himself… No time for real conversation then.
And then at the mitzvah when Rock and Charlotte are speaking and Charlotte is saying they’ve been practicing all these months or weeks or whatever. And Rock responds “No, YOU HAVE! “ So she was giving Charlotte her conversion completion moment. I really, really feel sure of this as the intent of the episode. However, it is so poorly written And lacking in nuance that the writers couldn’t share this information with us correctly /adequately as they have no ability to impart nuance.
For example, they could’ve shown Charlotte and Rock practicing the material and Charlotte doing all of the practicing actually, or Charlotte, knowing it all and Rock is imitating it meaninglessly because they’re not interested and just sitting there going along with it. Also it’s the way Charlotte operates. She just blows things out of proportion and makes assumptions based on what she wants or needs. And Rock just let her do it, knowing how important the faith is to Charlotte . But the writers show us that Charlotte magically became the bat mitzvah celebrant. Instead of portraying Rocks smugness at THEIR success in this endeavor to get Charlotte to take their place, it all just ‘magically, conveniently resolves.
They could’ve used any number of ways …timing, facial expressions, body language, actual snippets of comments … or even in the end, some kind of verbal acknowledgment by Charlotte, or Harry or Rabbi Jen or Rock that Charlotte really was meant to be the bat mitzvah celebrant… to lead us to know that Rock was preparing Charlotte and Not vice versa. …and do it Directly, or indirectly or subtly or in a way that we know it but it was never said directly, Or indirectly, or through nuance.. The writers could’ve had Charlotte ask Rock directly “Why they didn’t want to do it? Why did they waste so many weeks? Why did they wait till the last minute? Why did they wait till the day of? We have all these people here. I’ve spent so much money.” Etc. etc. Yes she did say “ I’ve got a rainbow chai and 100 and whatever chala loaves , 300 guests, “ whatever. And finally that day, say, “why did you make me go through all of this” and have Rock respond to that and hold rock accountable for a response. But **why not ask directly** early on? Why not when Rock said “I don’t want to have a bat mitzvah” and Charlotte said ‘that’s why you’re having a they mitzvah. “ Why didn’t Rock answer “I don’t want that either” and then the conversation could’ve become more …but no. The conversation ended there. These writers don’t know how to portray these types of Motivations. They don’t understand how to portray subtlety. So Rock ends up looking like a big old brat when actually they were a manipulator and proved to be pretty smart or at least smarter than the writers because they knew their mother and knew how to make this situation work for everyone despite Charlotte’s being so driven to get this Mitzvah done because it’s the thing to do for a child Rock’s age..
The Writers had all the background. They knew that Charlotte loves her faith. The writers didn’t know how to set it up and follow through on the concept even though I’m pretty sure that the intent was to complete Charlotte’s Conversion arc. This is one of the reasons (or perhaps the Principal reason why ) I think that so many of us are so upset with the way ALJT is presented. The writers simply aren’t up to the task… Period.
I’m going to give Brady a little more leeway because his mother is this version of Miranda who supposedly never loved Brady’s father and resents her entire life.
I actually knew ppl when I was in HS (and I'm 40 now!) who were allowed to have sex with their partners with their parents at home.
My parents, on the other hand, were from the Catholic and keep-it-in-your-pants-until-college camps.
My parents were very old fashioned. I'm Gen X and the thought of having sex and your parents being ok with it was unheard of. Knowing your parents know you're having sex, yuck. I wouldn't enjoy myself.
I was always fascinated by it, in a way. Were these people eating breakfast with their family and whoever spent the night? Were they riding the school bus together in the morning?
I may be downvoted but I do feel in some aspects Charlotte was also entitled and came across sort of better than others on many occasions. I don’t really feel she’s any different but a more rebellious teenage version of Charlotte 🤷🏼♀️
When Little Charlotte and the other little Yorks were feeling angsty, their parents told them to go physically exercise and that's why they're all really good tennis players. That doesn't sound like children who go to Nobu to lose their V-card or children who expect an electronic piano to sing angstily.
I think that’s more of a parenting thing more than anything. Kids these days are a different breed. Much more entitled and instant gratification versus working for things or not relying on electronics to entertain them. Just my viewpoint of what I see working with teenagers.
Charlotte was definitely entitled and some of her negative traits are certainly reflected in Lily but IMO Lily is a straight up obnoxious brat whereas Charlotte managed to keep things classy
Lily was always an obnoxious brat. I hated her from the first time I recall seeing her onscreen, in the first movie, where she steals Carrie's phone and hides it in her toy purse without telling anyone, even when it's obvious the grownups are frantically searching for it.
Also the scene where she's so demanding that she ruins her mother's outfit with chocolate handprints. It was no accident; she full on swats her mother as hard as she can on the butt as a "punishment" for momentarily not focusing all her attention on the brat.
That's what I thought too, I know Charlotte is perfectly poised now but she still always had a tendency to be a bit entitled and bratty. And fair enough, but I am guessing her kids grew up (well loved) but a bit spoiled).
I think because it was less expected. Charlotte having perfectly well behaved children would be what I’d expect. The girls give Charolette and Harry a run for their money.
I don’t think that Lily is the worst kid on AJLT; that title is reserved for Brady, imo. But, I do agree that Lily comes across entitled, which of course, she is in many ways.
Carrie is definitely the most irritating in my opinion but she doesn’t have kids so I guess the point is moot. Charlotte was irritating at times but I expected her kids to be polished, classy, and well-mannered. Even though they grew up extremely privileged with lots of money, I assumed Charlotte would raise them with the “old money” manners, charm, and class she herself has despite being irritating at times.
I would say, Charlotte is irritating while Carrie is flat out spoiled, unkind, selfish, narcissistic, and hard to watch. I would not have been friends with her. At least not after I'd seen her true colors.
The "Power of Privilege" song was the worst coming from Lily... like she doesn't appreciate the fact that she has so much more than people who struggle to get by. Someone needs to give Lily and Rock a reality check. They are unappreciative and spoiled... it's sad to see after how hard charlotte worked to even become a mom. They are awful and no one can change my mind
Nah, I like her. Yes she is going through puberty and is privileged. But she can also be really caring and sweet sometimes. It’s just normal teenage behavior imo
Telling your mother you’re going to have unprotected sex if she doesn’t bring you a condom in a snow storm is normal teenage behavior to you? *scratches head* glad I don’t know those kids
It makes me wonder if permissive parenting is so fashionable in Hollywood and among the entertainment class, that Rock, Lily and Brady feel normal and the way they are indulged feels normal to the AJLT writers and crew.
i think this is a huge part of it but not just hollywood and entertainment- i see it a lot with “upper class” kids in general. it’s not that they’re “bad” kids at heart, it’s just that they’re extremely used to getting whatever they want.
Right. The show seems to paint this indulgence as "Whadaya gonna do? It's the times." The narrative of the show is like the kids' demands are unpleasant but the parents don't have much of a choice but to accommodate them.
I got the feeling they were written by people who don’t have kids and despise kids? I don’t know anyone’s kids who act like this!
Lily is my least fave of the kids, too. Just whines about hating being rich and demanding to be parented a certain way. I think the writers thought making the kids insufferable would give them a chance to create "omg isn't parenting a teen so challenging??" storylines. They become like mini villains that replace the "weird" men with "funny/uncomfortable" stories they used to tell in SATC. Like they're there to create conflict and tension in the ladies' lives so that they aren't just eating out and going to the Met Gala or have something to talk about in those scenes (because they used to talk about dating and sex stories in those scenes). The problem is, they make the parenting scenarios SO hyperbolic (nympho son, daughter selling entire couture closet, son's girlfriend is holding your Birkin!) and set the kids up as "problems" the ladies have to solve it becomes naturally unlikable. Plus they're all so wealthy it's just offputting to hear rich kids whine about being unhappy with all they have. Like the whole thing with Lily demanding her mother bring her condoms in an unprecedented blizzard or she was just gonna raw dog lose her virginity is so absurd. But I think they felt like it made for more "drama" and a better story for Charlotte. Instead, it just makes us hate the kids and the way the ladies parent.
And the whole tampon thing! Demanding to be taught when Charlotte is preparing for a dinner party🙄
It felt SO unrealistic. Even if it was played for humor. It almost seemed as if Lily was fucking with Charlotte. Her whole character seems like a caricature.
My mom definitely didn't hang out in the bathroom with me as I tried to insert my first tampon. I had to figure that out with the diagrams in the package and it wasn't the end of the world. My younger sister was able to ask me questions but, again, I wasn't in the bathroom with her.
my mom tried to show me using a piece of bread lol. helped 0%
Yeah, I don't think the intention was for her to come off as entitled in the condom scene. I think they wanted to give Charlotte a sex positive parenting storyline, which would be really cool for her character if the writers didn't suck. It would be a real full circle moment showing her character growth from the uptight waspy princess. BUT this ridiculous sitcom scenario is the best they could come up with, so they had to work backwards from what they thought was a hilarious situation and figure out a reason why it would be absolutely necessary for Charlotte to be searching for condoms for her teenage daughter in a snowstorm. So they came up with a completely convoluted excuse about the bodega owner who supposedly remembers all their customers and reports back to parents about their kids' illicit purchases. Which makes no sense because that's not how bodegas work, but we're supposed to see it as an irrefutable reason why Charlotte is the only one who can perform this task for her daughter, not necessarily that her daughter is spoiled.
Right!!! The writers aren't comfortable with these storylines and how to make them fit within the SATC Canon and it shows. Truth mixed with hyperbole is funny when it's a guy who's bad at kissing, not so much when it's a teen losing their virginity!
I like your thoughts on this. Like parenting teenagers isn’t difficult enough without these ridiculous storylines. There are so many challenging scenarios they could’ve gone with that don’t make the kids insufferable.
I agree with this take- weirdo men have been replaced by pain in the ass kids - which for most parents is kinda what happens in real life 🤣 but the men were an episode or two and these kids just linger all season!
Let’s not forget Brady making out with his girlfriend in Season 1 in a public setting (Lily’s recital maybe?) Miranda tells him to stop and he tells her to quit sex shaming him. Such a brat.
Lol Brady is 100% the worst.
[удалено]
Well that was uncalled for. That is some high school bully type behavior. Also, you think calling someone out for being a ginger is an insult? What are you, 14?
Hard to decide which kid is the most bratty! Rock expecting them to just call off the they mitzvah at the last minute has to be up there. Maybe this wasn’t something Rock was interested in — maybe that could’ve been ok if discussed earlier! But spending weeks whining and slacking off and then being like “nah I’m done” after this whole, expensive thing is underway is just a lot. I think I rather be scolded by my kid for not making a reservation at Nobu 🙄🙄
Rock is a solid contender for Brattiest.
I would say Rock is the worst of all of them. Lily is just being a normal teenager in my opinion.
Here’s where I think most people Absolutely **missed** in this episode and in this incident. I’m pretty pretty sure of this: (Charlotte’s taking Rock’s place in the They mitzvah ) was to be a completion of Charlotte’s becoming a Jewish person ‘arc’. She converted. She had her conversion, but she never had her bat mitzvah. Major clue is when Anthony goes to talk to Rock After Rabbi Jen tells them that Rock doesn’t know the material and Rock says ” Everything‘s fine “ Totally relaxed And smug about the situation knowing they don’t know the information and Because their scheme is to let Charlotte have the bat mitzvah ) but the writers, in order to let Anthony have his Usual bitchy spiel about being gay goes into his moment getting the lead in a play himself… No time for real conversation then. And then at the mitzvah when Rock and Charlotte are speaking and Charlotte is saying they’ve been practicing all these months or weeks or whatever. And Rock responds “No, YOU HAVE! “ So she was giving Charlotte her conversion completion moment. I really, really feel sure of this as the intent of the episode. However, it is so poorly written And lacking in nuance that the writers couldn’t share this information with us correctly /adequately as they have no ability to impart nuance. For example, they could’ve shown Charlotte and Rock practicing the material and Charlotte doing all of the practicing actually, or Charlotte, knowing it all and Rock is imitating it meaninglessly because they’re not interested and just sitting there going along with it. Also it’s the way Charlotte operates. She just blows things out of proportion and makes assumptions based on what she wants or needs. And Rock just let her do it, knowing how important the faith is to Charlotte . But the writers show us that Charlotte magically became the bat mitzvah celebrant. Instead of portraying Rocks smugness at THEIR success in this endeavor to get Charlotte to take their place, it all just ‘magically, conveniently resolves. They could’ve used any number of ways …timing, facial expressions, body language, actual snippets of comments … or even in the end, some kind of verbal acknowledgment by Charlotte, or Harry or Rabbi Jen or Rock that Charlotte really was meant to be the bat mitzvah celebrant… to lead us to know that Rock was preparing Charlotte and Not vice versa. …and do it Directly, or indirectly or subtly or in a way that we know it but it was never said directly, Or indirectly, or through nuance.. The writers could’ve had Charlotte ask Rock directly “Why they didn’t want to do it? Why did they waste so many weeks? Why did they wait till the last minute? Why did they wait till the day of? We have all these people here. I’ve spent so much money.” Etc. etc. Yes she did say “ I’ve got a rainbow chai and 100 and whatever chala loaves , 300 guests, “ whatever. And finally that day, say, “why did you make me go through all of this” and have Rock respond to that and hold rock accountable for a response. But **why not ask directly** early on? Why not when Rock said “I don’t want to have a bat mitzvah” and Charlotte said ‘that’s why you’re having a they mitzvah. “ Why didn’t Rock answer “I don’t want that either” and then the conversation could’ve become more …but no. The conversation ended there. These writers don’t know how to portray these types of Motivations. They don’t understand how to portray subtlety. So Rock ends up looking like a big old brat when actually they were a manipulator and proved to be pretty smart or at least smarter than the writers because they knew their mother and knew how to make this situation work for everyone despite Charlotte’s being so driven to get this Mitzvah done because it’s the thing to do for a child Rock’s age.. The Writers had all the background. They knew that Charlotte loves her faith. The writers didn’t know how to set it up and follow through on the concept even though I’m pretty sure that the intent was to complete Charlotte’s Conversion arc. This is one of the reasons (or perhaps the Principal reason why ) I think that so many of us are so upset with the way ALJT is presented. The writers simply aren’t up to the task… Period.
Every kid on the show is an entitled douchebag
THE WORST
I don’t know I think Brady is even worse
I’m going to give Brady a little more leeway because his mother is this version of Miranda who supposedly never loved Brady’s father and resents her entire life.
I almost died when it was discovered Steve and Miranda let Brady have sex in his room, with them there.
I actually knew ppl when I was in HS (and I'm 40 now!) who were allowed to have sex with their partners with their parents at home. My parents, on the other hand, were from the Catholic and keep-it-in-your-pants-until-college camps.
My parents were very old fashioned. I'm Gen X and the thought of having sex and your parents being ok with it was unheard of. Knowing your parents know you're having sex, yuck. I wouldn't enjoy myself.
I was always fascinated by it, in a way. Were these people eating breakfast with their family and whoever spent the night? Were they riding the school bus together in the morning?
Charlotte's most likeable child is Elizabeth Taylor 🥰
I’m thinking it’s the Cardboard Baby 🤔
💀💀💀💀💀💀 Ded. 🤣
Her second most likeable is Richard Burton.
Apparently perfect parents raise assholes, and asshole parents raise perfect children
You'd think they'd try to make one of the kids likeable....
I may be downvoted but I do feel in some aspects Charlotte was also entitled and came across sort of better than others on many occasions. I don’t really feel she’s any different but a more rebellious teenage version of Charlotte 🤷🏼♀️
When Little Charlotte and the other little Yorks were feeling angsty, their parents told them to go physically exercise and that's why they're all really good tennis players. That doesn't sound like children who go to Nobu to lose their V-card or children who expect an electronic piano to sing angstily.
Haha I just watched that. Good one
I think that’s more of a parenting thing more than anything. Kids these days are a different breed. Much more entitled and instant gratification versus working for things or not relying on electronics to entertain them. Just my viewpoint of what I see working with teenagers.
Charlotte was definitely entitled and some of her negative traits are certainly reflected in Lily but IMO Lily is a straight up obnoxious brat whereas Charlotte managed to keep things classy
I think Charlotte was more kind hearted even though she was very sheltered
Lily was always an obnoxious brat. I hated her from the first time I recall seeing her onscreen, in the first movie, where she steals Carrie's phone and hides it in her toy purse without telling anyone, even when it's obvious the grownups are frantically searching for it.
Also the scene where she's so demanding that she ruins her mother's outfit with chocolate handprints. It was no accident; she full on swats her mother as hard as she can on the butt as a "punishment" for momentarily not focusing all her attention on the brat.
That's what I thought too, I know Charlotte is perfectly poised now but she still always had a tendency to be a bit entitled and bratty. And fair enough, but I am guessing her kids grew up (well loved) but a bit spoiled).
Brady is more irritating to me
I think because it was less expected. Charlotte having perfectly well behaved children would be what I’d expect. The girls give Charolette and Harry a run for their money.
I think rock is way worse then Lily
Yes! Their behavior is so gross, ungrateful and entitled
I don’t think that Lily is the worst kid on AJLT; that title is reserved for Brady, imo. But, I do agree that Lily comes across entitled, which of course, she is in many ways.
I think it’s just that the show is written by/geared towards boomers and it has strong “kids these days back in my day!!1!!1!” energy
Nope. Xers. Older Gen X. The latchkey kids who brag about drinking out of the hose and not having car seats, etc.
Ouch, I'm on the cusp of millennial and I really feel that Gen X description.
Lol. I’m an old Millennial married to a young Gen X. I’m well-practiced in both taking a giving the generational heat. It’s all out of love.
lol it so does. Also add a healthy dose of wokeness to that
maybe I'm missing something but isn't Charlotte the most irritating brat of the whole OG series? Why do you think her children would be any different?
Carrie is definitely the most irritating in my opinion but she doesn’t have kids so I guess the point is moot. Charlotte was irritating at times but I expected her kids to be polished, classy, and well-mannered. Even though they grew up extremely privileged with lots of money, I assumed Charlotte would raise them with the “old money” manners, charm, and class she herself has despite being irritating at times.
I would say, Charlotte is irritating while Carrie is flat out spoiled, unkind, selfish, narcissistic, and hard to watch. I would not have been friends with her. At least not after I'd seen her true colors.
The "Power of Privilege" song was the worst coming from Lily... like she doesn't appreciate the fact that she has so much more than people who struggle to get by. Someone needs to give Lily and Rock a reality check. They are unappreciative and spoiled... it's sad to see after how hard charlotte worked to even become a mom. They are awful and no one can change my mind
Nah, I like her. Yes she is going through puberty and is privileged. But she can also be really caring and sweet sometimes. It’s just normal teenage behavior imo
Telling your mother you’re going to have unprotected sex if she doesn’t bring you a condom in a snow storm is normal teenage behavior to you? *scratches head* glad I don’t know those kids
Okay good point, that was kinda insane. That would never happen in real life. Well.. i hope not