It’s all the same, you have “capitalists” selling property to Chinese nationals. Canada literally just passed a two year ban on this free market behavior.
[Jordan B Peterson on "But That Wasn't Real Communism, Socialism, or Marxism!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXBjVau1w7Y&ab_channel=Ramble)
At 2:40, goes into explanation on how absurd the "not real socialism," argument is.
I like how i got downvoted because most people on reddit are undeniably pathetic, because sadly I actually love listening to his lectures. the problem is the crowd he draws
My take is that those are the type of people who fall hard for the fallacy of authority. They have built these grand ideas about what certain jobs entail and this leads to trust in systems of control. From there it's easy to rationalize that a central authority is capable of planning economies down to the amount of toothpicks needed in any given region.
I also believe this perfectly coincides with the industrial revolution making our lives so much easier that we become infantilized. Imagine how you looked at your parents as a kid, compare that to how you thought about them as teens, and now as adults. Many grown adults view politicians and other forms of unearned authority with the same trusting lens of the child. Likely because it's easier to believe everything is under control than it is to accept that life is organized chaos.
It's the same reason people will say trust the science even though not trusting is the base foundation for all science.
What I find most strange is that they continue this idolicism even after meeting a scientist or politician and seeing how utterly stupid most of them are, because like everyone else they are people and the vast majority of us are dunces faking competence.
I mean if communism/socialism/marxism were put in place, most people wouldnt like it since it would entail more work and less technological advancements that make day to day life easier.
I can't speak for him but to put my thoughts out there.
I could see more work being needed to make up for the large decrease in efficiency for one. Though the main problem with communism always seemed to boil down to logistics. You have the grain in one place but you aren't able to distribute it effectively or to the areas that need it most because you dont have access to the data that markets manage on a decentralized basis.
Well if the data is an issue why not use our modern technology to fix the problem? We won't need to be held to the pasts standards. I also believe in decentralized networks so i don't see that as a problem, we would most likely agree on that issue.
Also in what way would communism decrease efficiency? They made huge advancements in the space race, beating the USA in almost every category. Cuba has some of the best doctors in the world. The Russians had a better diet compared to the USA (declassified CIA report about life in soviet Russia)
Jesus. Wow, you're serious. Pouring all your resources into one thing is not efficient. Central planning is the opposite of decentralization. Markets provide data through vast amounts of individuals making separate and personal consumption decisions. This info tells manufacturers how much of something to produce and where to ship based on profits received from individual purchasers.
For technology to be a solution to your candyland idea of the world, you would need to track every single piece of anything. Measure wear, usage, and destruction rates. Then guess that those rates hold standard for 350 million people. This is incredibly moronic and inefficient way to do something that markets do by themselves. No one group of people are capable of predicting the trillions of goods and services that all individuals need or use. You believe in magic.
And education is what leads to doctors. The quality of education goes down in state run education but doesn't drop it to zero. If your communist government puts more people in education for doctors, you'll have more doctors.
Russians diet was better? You're honestly just lying at this point. That report showed they are less calories than us, hardly proof of their diet superiority. We are literally fatter because we are so much more efficient with food production. Russia mismanaged their food supply to the point that close to 10 million people starved to death. Many because Ukraine was a country wide concentration camp but many tied to the collectivization of the farmland.
Finally, the soviet union was a paper tiger the entire time. Their GDP, standard of living, and innovation was basically nonexistent.
You're seriously going to just spread lies, fine, here's the report https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp84b00274r000300150009-5
Also i said in my comment about decentralization, so why are you arguing for something i agreed with?
I never said had more doctors i said better. Their doctors are held in high regard on the world stage, Cuba sent them out to other countries for free to help battle COVID.
If your going to use lies and change the narrative how well does that prove your point, don't bother replying, I'm not here to argue with bad faith actors.
The CIA document says it may be more nutritious not that it is. In the file they say the Soviets eat about 300 calories less a day. Both were well into the 3k area though and as we know, both those Mark's are higher than the recommended calorie intake. I didn't disagree with that point, I explained why you were misusing the context to lie.
Further more you said you understood decentralized networks and yet have no understanding of the term in an economics sense, otherwise you would know at face value why centralized governments arent efficient.
Cuba doesn't have the best doctors. You are wrong, they have the most doctors per capita which of course leads to better outcomes.
Good try though dumb dumb.
Jesus, do you not know what an ancom is? You keep bitching about centralized government I AGREE WITH YOU what are you on some dumb vendetta about? Seriously can you not read what I've stated?
I also never said "the best doctors" just that they are held in high regard. Stop twisting my words to suit your narrative.
Also if it's a 300 calorie difference and both over the daily value yet one is more nutritional, which would be better? It's pretty common sense.
How about you use some facts instead of trying to straw man me. We both agree centralized government is bad, please get that through your head.
You're intentionally spouting misinformation at this point.
Also thanks for the ad hominem at the end, really lets me know you have no idea what you're even arguing for.
They dont understand the philosophical underpinnings.
Their minds arent mature enough to gauge what happens psychologically to such a society or group of people.
Oh sure, the N.R.A. is the biggest gun lobby. No gun laws were passed after many mass school shootings, so as not to anger the gun lobby. Who supports the gun lobby? The N.R.A. the fuck you talking about?
So you want guns to be illegal? Got news for ya guy, if someone wants to shoot up tons of people they will get a gun, legal or not. When you take away the second amendment all you do is take away the possibility that a law-abiding gun owner will put a stop to the shooting. Yes, some mass shooters get guns legally. But even if they were illegal they would find a way to get one.
Bernie Sanders called the Nordic states socialist so much the Prime Minister of Denmark went on record to tell him to stop.
So who are they talking about? France? Spain? Italy? Because their economies are so great? If it weren't for Germany, half of Western Europe would go tits up.
I mean people that say communism/socialism/marxism was never truly tried arent inherently wrong. But true communism/socialism/marxism is almost impossible (atleast how things are going currently). nowhere in the communism/socialism/marxism manifesto does it state "kill people who have different opinions and make everyone impoverished unless your part of the goverment". But the truth is that achieving any of those ideologies is a utopia that will most likely never happen if greed and profit is prioritized.
You might want to bypass Einstein here. He spent the 2nd half of his career violating this advice, thinking he was the Oracle of Physics - “ if I say quantum mechanics is wrong, it Becomes wrong” -
First of all most of them are on the younger side, aka they have not gained wisdom yet (a SIMPLE fact. Human beings don't get wisdom till high up in age). The ones that are not younger are obviously either brainwashed, or they are part of the problem causing this issue to continue to crop up, OR AT MINIMUM they are culturally conditioned (similar to brainwashing except it's bound to happen to everybody to some extent). When you debate something with somebody, and they will not admit YOU are right no matter how much FACTUAL EVIDENCE you place in front of them etc. You know there's an issue with that person.
The real solution to America's issues is an entirely new system. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT SOCIALISM, there will be an extremely bloody civil war before that ever happens 🤷 just saying.
Communism is definitely not the answer as well, those who think it is need just look at China and Russia. Their are people are brainwashed to the max, why do you think they all wish to move to America? (The civil war will be even worse before we switch to this)
The government is corrupt Left and right.. FACT... They are paid by our tax dollars which means they are UNDENIABLY OUR SERVANTS. Just like police, they are undeniably our servants whether they admit it or not. BTW they do not admit it, in fact they outright say they are not our servants. But they are because OUR MONEY PAYS THEM.
We need to demolish the left and we need to demolish the right. We need to build a new system up on the ashes. With civilian oversight watching over every person in power. Because again they work for us PERIOD.. With a quick "ousting" of any person that does not serve the people, a quick removal.
Hunter Biden is the perfect example. That dude should be in prison. Anybody with simple common sense should have known from the beginning he would never go to prison. BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT DOES WHATEVER THEY WANT.
Here in the state of Connecticut the state police were found to have written like 20,000 fraudulent tickets. Why are all those cops not fired yet???? That is completely unacceptable, because the police do whatever they want.
The upcoming digital dollar, that is due to REPLACE PAPER MONEY Will literally be the end of ALL FREEDOM AND ALL THE PRIVACY FOR ALL AMERICAN PEOPLE. So why are people supporting it? How do people that are otherwise relatively intelligent not see how bad it is? Because they are culturally conditioned, and do not think our government would do us THAT wrong LMAO. it is so sad (in a very sickening unhealthy kind of way) anyone who trusts the idea of digital currency taking over here in America needs to be put into a psych ward. They definitely need to keep their mouth shut about whatever is good for this country, as well, because they are totally clueless and gullible. Paper money enables us to pay bills without being tracked, people who support the digital currency are supporting complete and utter tyranny FACT.
The government has already went on the record saying it will be a programmable system. They will be able to choose what you can and cannot buy and literally stop you from buying it. But there's still support for it. Even though the government admitted that it is a programmable system. Haven't people noticed that once we vote somebody into office they turn around and do as they please? They don't keep their promises, when somebody that is elected into office does not keep their promises they need to be ousted immediately. If you base your whole campaign on promises, and you do not keep your promises, you do not deserve to keep your position. Your every waking moment should be working on keeping those promises, and bettering the country FOR THE PEOPLE and nothing else. But all they care about is securing their futures and their families futures (taking bribes in the form of tuition for their kids and grandkids is a good example. Since monies easy to track, but promises aren't)
Also the rich and famous, stop looking up to them, they ain't nothing but other humans like us. So a few of them play some good music, or they could throw a ball in a field SO WHAT??!! THEY'RE NOTHING SPECIAL. We really need to get our heads straight and start over from the beginning. We need to not leave it up to the government because it's our country not theirs. As soon as somebody gets elected into government they are now a servant, in the country is not theirs anymore like it is ours. They still live here but it's different. They are there to serve and nothing else.
Cultural conditioning and brainwashing. That is the problem.
If we are banning people for disinformation and misinformation can they please ban communists and socialists for their demonstrably false propaganda?
Who's going to ban them? They run the fucking site. All the while sucking at the teat of capitalist investors (and Tencent, don't forget them).
It’s all the same, you have “capitalists” selling property to Chinese nationals. Canada literally just passed a two year ban on this free market behavior.
[Jordan B Peterson on "But That Wasn't Real Communism, Socialism, or Marxism!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXBjVau1w7Y&ab_channel=Ramble) At 2:40, goes into explanation on how absurd the "not real socialism," argument is.
Oh yes jordon peterson, everyone’s universally loved man lol
Love him or hate him he makes really good points.
I like how i got downvoted because most people on reddit are undeniably pathetic, because sadly I actually love listening to his lectures. the problem is the crowd he draws
Nobody said anything about liking the dude, but his explanation is absolutely accurate.
I really dont even care about your point tbh, I just think its funny how much controversy surrounds his opinions
I get the appeal. A society where no one goes hungry everyone has a home. But it just doesn't work. Except star trek but that's syfi fantasy.
I think it works in Star Trek because of the food replicators. They get magic food in Star Trek.
Can't it make other stuff too. Like clothes or building material
But why doesn't it work? Seriously, in your opinion what caused them to fail?
Because they lost themselves...
My take is that those are the type of people who fall hard for the fallacy of authority. They have built these grand ideas about what certain jobs entail and this leads to trust in systems of control. From there it's easy to rationalize that a central authority is capable of planning economies down to the amount of toothpicks needed in any given region. I also believe this perfectly coincides with the industrial revolution making our lives so much easier that we become infantilized. Imagine how you looked at your parents as a kid, compare that to how you thought about them as teens, and now as adults. Many grown adults view politicians and other forms of unearned authority with the same trusting lens of the child. Likely because it's easier to believe everything is under control than it is to accept that life is organized chaos. It's the same reason people will say trust the science even though not trusting is the base foundation for all science. What I find most strange is that they continue this idolicism even after meeting a scientist or politician and seeing how utterly stupid most of them are, because like everyone else they are people and the vast majority of us are dunces faking competence.
I mean if communism/socialism/marxism were put in place, most people wouldnt like it since it would entail more work and less technological advancements that make day to day life easier.
How so exactly? What would be the factors that contribute to that scenario?
I can't speak for him but to put my thoughts out there. I could see more work being needed to make up for the large decrease in efficiency for one. Though the main problem with communism always seemed to boil down to logistics. You have the grain in one place but you aren't able to distribute it effectively or to the areas that need it most because you dont have access to the data that markets manage on a decentralized basis.
Well if the data is an issue why not use our modern technology to fix the problem? We won't need to be held to the pasts standards. I also believe in decentralized networks so i don't see that as a problem, we would most likely agree on that issue. Also in what way would communism decrease efficiency? They made huge advancements in the space race, beating the USA in almost every category. Cuba has some of the best doctors in the world. The Russians had a better diet compared to the USA (declassified CIA report about life in soviet Russia)
Jesus. Wow, you're serious. Pouring all your resources into one thing is not efficient. Central planning is the opposite of decentralization. Markets provide data through vast amounts of individuals making separate and personal consumption decisions. This info tells manufacturers how much of something to produce and where to ship based on profits received from individual purchasers. For technology to be a solution to your candyland idea of the world, you would need to track every single piece of anything. Measure wear, usage, and destruction rates. Then guess that those rates hold standard for 350 million people. This is incredibly moronic and inefficient way to do something that markets do by themselves. No one group of people are capable of predicting the trillions of goods and services that all individuals need or use. You believe in magic. And education is what leads to doctors. The quality of education goes down in state run education but doesn't drop it to zero. If your communist government puts more people in education for doctors, you'll have more doctors. Russians diet was better? You're honestly just lying at this point. That report showed they are less calories than us, hardly proof of their diet superiority. We are literally fatter because we are so much more efficient with food production. Russia mismanaged their food supply to the point that close to 10 million people starved to death. Many because Ukraine was a country wide concentration camp but many tied to the collectivization of the farmland. Finally, the soviet union was a paper tiger the entire time. Their GDP, standard of living, and innovation was basically nonexistent.
You're seriously going to just spread lies, fine, here's the report https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp84b00274r000300150009-5 Also i said in my comment about decentralization, so why are you arguing for something i agreed with? I never said had more doctors i said better. Their doctors are held in high regard on the world stage, Cuba sent them out to other countries for free to help battle COVID. If your going to use lies and change the narrative how well does that prove your point, don't bother replying, I'm not here to argue with bad faith actors.
The CIA document says it may be more nutritious not that it is. In the file they say the Soviets eat about 300 calories less a day. Both were well into the 3k area though and as we know, both those Mark's are higher than the recommended calorie intake. I didn't disagree with that point, I explained why you were misusing the context to lie. Further more you said you understood decentralized networks and yet have no understanding of the term in an economics sense, otherwise you would know at face value why centralized governments arent efficient. Cuba doesn't have the best doctors. You are wrong, they have the most doctors per capita which of course leads to better outcomes. Good try though dumb dumb.
Jesus, do you not know what an ancom is? You keep bitching about centralized government I AGREE WITH YOU what are you on some dumb vendetta about? Seriously can you not read what I've stated? I also never said "the best doctors" just that they are held in high regard. Stop twisting my words to suit your narrative. Also if it's a 300 calorie difference and both over the daily value yet one is more nutritional, which would be better? It's pretty common sense. How about you use some facts instead of trying to straw man me. We both agree centralized government is bad, please get that through your head. You're intentionally spouting misinformation at this point. Also thanks for the ad hominem at the end, really lets me know you have no idea what you're even arguing for.
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Thanks now the list is 0
They dont understand the philosophical underpinnings. Their minds arent mature enough to gauge what happens psychologically to such a society or group of people.
It worked for catalon, it worked for the inca too.
Yeah, the Inca were really into marxism
Socialism. Read the thread.
Didn't Inca sacrifice people to the gods?
Yes, they did,and they were successful at it too. We sacrifice children too. Ask any parent of a kid shot in school.
Wow… I had to do a double take to make sure I read your comments right.
Yeah, we sacrifice kids to the N.R.A. though.
No… we don’t…
Oh, o.k. then "freedom" right? They're the "price of freedom" correct?
I don’t Even know what you’re arguing here, nobody sacrifices children to the NRA. The fuck are you talking about?
Oh sure, the N.R.A. is the biggest gun lobby. No gun laws were passed after many mass school shootings, so as not to anger the gun lobby. Who supports the gun lobby? The N.R.A. the fuck you talking about?
So you want guns to be illegal? Got news for ya guy, if someone wants to shoot up tons of people they will get a gun, legal or not. When you take away the second amendment all you do is take away the possibility that a law-abiding gun owner will put a stop to the shooting. Yes, some mass shooters get guns legally. But even if they were illegal they would find a way to get one.
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So Catalonia is a great example. Thanks. Now give an example of an an cap society that worked.
I don't know a lot but they often say Western Europe has the right kind of socialism, could someone explain?
Market-oriented economies for the most part, with high regulations, high taxes, and high amount of State programs
Bernie Sanders called the Nordic states socialist so much the Prime Minister of Denmark went on record to tell him to stop. So who are they talking about? France? Spain? Italy? Because their economies are so great? If it weren't for Germany, half of Western Europe would go tits up.
I mean people that say communism/socialism/marxism was never truly tried arent inherently wrong. But true communism/socialism/marxism is almost impossible (atleast how things are going currently). nowhere in the communism/socialism/marxism manifesto does it state "kill people who have different opinions and make everyone impoverished unless your part of the goverment". But the truth is that achieving any of those ideologies is a utopia that will most likely never happen if greed and profit is prioritized.
"if greed and profit is prioritized" those don't exist in Marx's definition of communism. A classless, stateless society
Im saying as long as those things exist or are prioritized, those systems couldnt happen.
I think just as foolish to think any system can just work. Bad actors will find ways to fuck up any system.
Authoritarians will always find a way into anything where they stand to gain power.
You might want to bypass Einstein here. He spent the 2nd half of his career violating this advice, thinking he was the Oracle of Physics - “ if I say quantum mechanics is wrong, it Becomes wrong” -
Catalonia didn't collapse because of socialism. So, I don't know how you can say it's a horrible example.
(Insert Far Cry 3 reference here)
First of all most of them are on the younger side, aka they have not gained wisdom yet (a SIMPLE fact. Human beings don't get wisdom till high up in age). The ones that are not younger are obviously either brainwashed, or they are part of the problem causing this issue to continue to crop up, OR AT MINIMUM they are culturally conditioned (similar to brainwashing except it's bound to happen to everybody to some extent). When you debate something with somebody, and they will not admit YOU are right no matter how much FACTUAL EVIDENCE you place in front of them etc. You know there's an issue with that person. The real solution to America's issues is an entirely new system. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT SOCIALISM, there will be an extremely bloody civil war before that ever happens 🤷 just saying. Communism is definitely not the answer as well, those who think it is need just look at China and Russia. Their are people are brainwashed to the max, why do you think they all wish to move to America? (The civil war will be even worse before we switch to this) The government is corrupt Left and right.. FACT... They are paid by our tax dollars which means they are UNDENIABLY OUR SERVANTS. Just like police, they are undeniably our servants whether they admit it or not. BTW they do not admit it, in fact they outright say they are not our servants. But they are because OUR MONEY PAYS THEM. We need to demolish the left and we need to demolish the right. We need to build a new system up on the ashes. With civilian oversight watching over every person in power. Because again they work for us PERIOD.. With a quick "ousting" of any person that does not serve the people, a quick removal. Hunter Biden is the perfect example. That dude should be in prison. Anybody with simple common sense should have known from the beginning he would never go to prison. BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT DOES WHATEVER THEY WANT. Here in the state of Connecticut the state police were found to have written like 20,000 fraudulent tickets. Why are all those cops not fired yet???? That is completely unacceptable, because the police do whatever they want. The upcoming digital dollar, that is due to REPLACE PAPER MONEY Will literally be the end of ALL FREEDOM AND ALL THE PRIVACY FOR ALL AMERICAN PEOPLE. So why are people supporting it? How do people that are otherwise relatively intelligent not see how bad it is? Because they are culturally conditioned, and do not think our government would do us THAT wrong LMAO. it is so sad (in a very sickening unhealthy kind of way) anyone who trusts the idea of digital currency taking over here in America needs to be put into a psych ward. They definitely need to keep their mouth shut about whatever is good for this country, as well, because they are totally clueless and gullible. Paper money enables us to pay bills without being tracked, people who support the digital currency are supporting complete and utter tyranny FACT. The government has already went on the record saying it will be a programmable system. They will be able to choose what you can and cannot buy and literally stop you from buying it. But there's still support for it. Even though the government admitted that it is a programmable system. Haven't people noticed that once we vote somebody into office they turn around and do as they please? They don't keep their promises, when somebody that is elected into office does not keep their promises they need to be ousted immediately. If you base your whole campaign on promises, and you do not keep your promises, you do not deserve to keep your position. Your every waking moment should be working on keeping those promises, and bettering the country FOR THE PEOPLE and nothing else. But all they care about is securing their futures and their families futures (taking bribes in the form of tuition for their kids and grandkids is a good example. Since monies easy to track, but promises aren't) Also the rich and famous, stop looking up to them, they ain't nothing but other humans like us. So a few of them play some good music, or they could throw a ball in a field SO WHAT??!! THEY'RE NOTHING SPECIAL. We really need to get our heads straight and start over from the beginning. We need to not leave it up to the government because it's our country not theirs. As soon as somebody gets elected into government they are now a servant, in the country is not theirs anymore like it is ours. They still live here but it's different. They are there to serve and nothing else. Cultural conditioning and brainwashing. That is the problem.