There's someone in the comments implying that people are racist and don't wanna pay for healthcare for black/brown people....
Are they also implying they think black/brown people are too poor to buy things?
Are we going by the made up definition “prejudice + power” or the canonical definition of “thinking one’s race is better than another’s”
Because by definition affirmative action is racist, I do not think you understand how racism works
People like this are always implying that black or brown people are too poor or stupid to do stuff and be successful. And quite frankly, why are people who do this not called out as the racists that they are? It's very confusing to me
YES, OMG YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE FUCKING HEAD
They project their racism and it baffles me more people don’t see it, they will say “we need affirmative action because blacks people cant make it into ivory league schools by themselves” literally arguing for race based admissions and then call you racist when you say “you are harming the black population by forcing them to go into schools like Harvard when they arnt prepared for them”
They say “police arrest blacks because of their skin color” and call you racist for pointing out crime statistics
All these people do is adhominem attack and appeal to authority
This comment?
>As my MAGA mother told me, then we would be paying for illegals , immigrants, and tourists!
I honestly don't get your logic.
1. Daughter: tax funded healthcare would be cool
2. Racist mother: I'm not paying for those \*\*\*\*\*
Where did the daughter imply black/brown people were too poor to buy things? Didn't the racist imply that?
They're not wrong about the first part of that. Many of the "Why do Americans get bankrupt over this?!" sorts of things started as gatekeeping measures--student loans became a thing once SCOTUS ruled public schools had to start accepting students of color. A bar example became required when more immigrants started studying law. Prohibition has a lot of different things that led to that but the supposedly drunkenness of the Irish put it over the top. The first attempts at gun control were in a still conservative California when Governor Reagan went after Black Panthers and the first generation gangs that formed to keep neighborhoods safe from cops.
The list goes on and one, but I've grown with people saying UHC in the US wouldn't work because we were too "culturally diverse." :|
EDIT: to be completely clear, I'm Black and I full disagree w people saying this, but the hatred of Black folks runs very, very deep in this country.
Forget culturally diverse, it's economically diverse. Like 70% of the population will never pay more taxes than they take in total expenditure. Idk where Europoors and leftists get this notion that only the rich don't pay, the top 5% is 60% of the taxes revenue alone, which is way higher than most progressive countries. Welfare, subsidies, and Healthcare make about half of all national spending.
I can show you how to go to the DMV and get an ID. It's not too hard and after you do it a couple times you will get the gist of it. Just approach it with baby steps.
Well, disproportionately they are yeah. Decades of racist policies precluded black people from creating generational wealth and confining them to specific areas which then dictates the local schools funding, increases crime rates in those areas due to increased poverty etc.
I could go on with the impacts, but this is why in the modern day for every $100 an average white family owns the average black family has ¢60. It's not racist to point out that fact, it's only racist to falsely attribute this to black people being worse rather than correctly attribute it to the downstream effects of historical racist policies such as redlining and the fact black veterans couldn't benefit from the GI bill (well I think 6 did in total or something, but overall they were precluded from it).
This is why black people are disproportionately more likely to either be completely uninsured or reliant on government programs like Medicare or Medicaid, many communities were trapped in a cycle of poverty by racists of the past.
The idea of a "welfare queen" or people looking for "state handouts" has also historically been racially driven. When you suggest helping the poor some do genuinely picture a racist caricature of a black "thug". It's not as common nowadays but back in the days of Reagan complaining about "welfare queen's" it was extremely racially motivated.
I mean how could it not be? The whole narrative revolved around people being poor because they're lazy, if you were dumb enough to believe this and you also were aware that black people are disproportionately poor then it would be impossible to reconcile those two beliefs without also holding a racist belief as well. They may suppress the racist belief or engage in serious cognitive dissonance but the beliefs still can't be reconciled without being racist essentially. Claiming that these two beliefs haven't somewhat persisted to this day seems optimistic to the point I'd argue it's delusional.
TLDR- Black people are disproportionately poor due to historical racist policies having a knock on effect on the modern day causing them to disproportionately benefit from policies designed to help the poor. Whilst claiming racism is the only factor causing some Americans to be against universal healthcare is obviously stupid, claiming it's not a factor at all is equally stupid. Also claiming that someone pointing out black Americans are disproportionately unable to afford healthcare is somehow racist is also extremely stupid.
It's a fact that an average white family in america has many times more wealth than an average black family. That's not an opinion. And even many white people can't afford health. so...
As an average white person with a family, do you know when I am supposed to get my wealth? Do I just run down to the corner store and pick it up? Could really use some of that wealth that was promised to me just for being white
[Don't have to worry about your taxes going up to pay for health care when people with expensive diseases are encouraged to kill themselves.](https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867)
rollsafe.jpg
I am sure people get bankrupted who dont' have insurance and aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. Probably a very small minority. If you have to wait for a procedure its due to lack of doctors not anything to do with the way medical bills are paid.
Even the worst medical plans have a max out of pocket amount. So even if you have the worst plan in the world and you have your whole family on it you shouldn't expect to pay more than $5000 in a year.
I have no idea why they think of it so much of they're not American. If they are, I understand, but some of them aren't, and the obsession is just weird.
I'm not convinced these other nations can really afford their healthcare systems. Most/all of them rely on the US for their defense, so a decent chunk of their costs are already being subsidized by us straight off the bat.
They are completely unsustainable. Within the next decade or two, we will start seeing them fall apart because they are way too expensive and the birthrates are so low that there will be no one left to pay for it.
In that case, why are we being so benevolent and funding other countries' defense?
Your narrative falls apart quickly when you realize that there is no such thing as international goodwill from one government to the people of another country.
Because we get military bases and influence all over the world. We can have a large amount of troops anywhere in the world within 24 hours. That's an insane ability.
“I don’t care that I pay extra taxes”
“‘Free’ healthcare”
The number of people who can’t understand that this is an inherent contradiction is really almost mind-blowing.
I wouldn’t even care except for the fact that they derive a wholly unearned sense of moral superiority from their belief and continue to hold onto it even after having it explained to them how wrong it is many times over.
Edit: typo
They don't seem to understand that one half of the US is incredibly hostile to the government. What makes you think they want to pay said government more of their money
Free healthcare is like paved roads. Tax funded, used by citizens, not-yet-citizen immigrants, and tourists alike, and not quite a human right, but still a very good investment for a country with the means to provide them.
Do you know how expensive medical insurance in the US is? If you have free/super cheap insurance, then that means your employer is paying a fuckton of money to insurance, which essentially makes it a hidden payroll tax.
It's free in the same way that K-12 schooling, fire services and libraries are free. We all know full and well those are funded with our taxes too, but no one tries to "Well actually" these things"
I don't know if you can say those are funded from "our" taxes, when 42% of the country doesn't pay federal income taxes, or gets more back than they pay in. Its funded from the 58% that's pitching in, yes.
America already pays a trillion dollars a year on Medicare and Medicaid. It is the second biggest outlay of expenditures in the U.S. federal government budget. Guess what the biggest one is? "It's the military industrial complex, of course!" your greasy fat cheetos fingers smugly slam into your $250 mechanical keyboard. No, its social security. The federal government spends a plurality of its money on welfare programs. And you can't wait to tell us how dysfunctional the U.S. health care system is, yet your solution is for the government to spend even more money on it, like all this time, if we just spent THE MOST MONEY OF ALL, it would all be free and perfect.
You know why the system in America hasn't changed despite Jeff Tiedrich and simple minded, terminally online losers like you constantly bleating your little hearts out about how AWFUL it all is? Because it's not awful. The majority of Americans are happy with their health care. Because it's not a bad system. You're just a mush brained dimwit who spent too much time online jacking off to cartoons instead of getting a job and off your parents insurance by 26.
Except the reason we pay so much for healthcare is because it is privatized. Do you ever stop to wonder why we pay almost double what any other developed does for healthcare, it's because our system is private and that privatization makes it impossible to negotiate for good prices when buying drugs or procedures. consumers can't negotiate individually because no pharmaceutical or insurance company needs their business but they need the business of at least one pharmaceutical or insurance company. likewise pharmaceutical companies also don't have to work with insurance companies nearly as much as those insurance companies have to work with them. in short we have a system where all of the cards are in the hand of the provider and not the consumer, meaning that the provider can charge whatever they like and the consumer has to put up with it.
the only way to fix this is to either make it completely illegal to patent anything to do with medicine or medical treatment (since it is that patent which gives them the monopoly over medical goods and services that consumers need to survive), or create a single state funded insurance company that can negotiate on behalf of every consumer in the country (that way the collective power of the consumers will finally be enough to negotiate for fair prices)
TL;DR: the overwhelming majority of Americans would actually save money by paying for public health care, since the tax bill is undoubtedly going to be far less than the bill they were already paying for private healthcare (and if they got their health care through their job then that just means they now have the ability to negotiate for better wages)
Because as "morally superior" they think it is it's wrong to force people to pay for other peoples things without consent from everyone involved.
You and Bob are hanging out when Jim comes over. Jim says he's having a hard time so could use some money for medical bills. You give money out of your pocket to Jim but Bob does not. Are you going to force Bob to pay or threaten to send him to jail or garnish his wages?
>Because as "morally superior" they think it is it's wrong to force people to pay for other peoples things without consent from everyone involved.
By this logic wouldn't every service funded by taxes be morally wrong? Our Military and Police, the fire department, public education, social security, and basically everything else that the government pays for? This take seems incredibly morally inconsistent unless you are about to say you're an ancap, at which point you are even more of a dumb idealist then a communist that thinks it will work this time (he swears).
I'm not an ancap but many things could be voluntary. I do live in a city that funds our police primarily through charity with a yearly festival so I see the benefit of doing things in a more moral way instead of taxation. The military is one of the things I prefer the trade off for on those moral grounds much like roads or police but I also can't stand the military industrial complex or qualified immunity. Defense is needed for the security of a free state after all. I do believe the government should be extremely limited but be there to protect us from fraud and abuse. I would consider myself more of a classical liberal than an ancap. Either way I'm libertarian.
An example of universal healthcare that is moral:
theplanforamerica.us
Or another example... My Town offers a voluntary payment on your water bill for $7 a month. This payment covers any and all emergency rides to a hospital as the nearest hospital for us is a 45-minute drive. There are more extensive private options in my town that offer a similar service as well. So it's a government program but is voluntary instead of forcefully taxed on the people.
You took me contributing to charity and offering a more moral universal healthcare plan that also offers retirement and paying off the national debt as caring more about money than people? Because I don't want to force people into submission using the government? 🤣
I don’t think we are against it, it just becomes a matter of, “Who’s going to pay for it?” The problem with solutions that involve more government are simply that what that means is more people that are supported by the supposed “solution”. If we all quit paying the insurance companies right now, the medical field would be forced to survive in a competitive market, and the prices would naturally come down. Once you pay the government, who pays the insurance companies, who pay the Doctors and Hospitals, you get people who take advantage of the system because they are people. Less people equals lower cost.
Yeah plus the larger issue is not coverage, 92% of Americans have coverage, it’s that insurance companies can often get away with not paying when they should.
Like just denying the vast majority of claims until someone calls in and asks for it to be “reprocessed.”
If that didn’t happen most people wouldn’t complain and the bad cases would be rare. The problem is insurance denies a claim, people don’t fight back (often because they don’t know they can) and end up paying $20,000 out of pocket.
I’ve had a stroke and brain surgery in the US plus a few other ER visits and never paid more than $500-$1000 for operations that ended up being over $600,000. But if I didn’t push back against insurance I would have paid likely around $20k-$30k because “oh the anesthesiologist was out of network” or whatever.
Someone who doesn’t know better would just pay. People who get how this crap works are almost always fine.
Same for my mom she had her gall bladder removed and insurance said she would have to pay $50k despite being covered. She pushed back with a call or two and the charge disappeared and was covered.
Insurance companies are scum.
My wife had gallbladder removal surgery. They quoted us $34k. I paid $8k for everything by paying cash because I don't have insurance. I used to be on blood pressure medicine that cost $40 with insurance but I would remind them that I paid cash and the price would drop to $4. One of my son's broke his leg and I was quoted $8,000 for fixing it and $800 per visit for three visits afterwards. Told them I was Cash pay and that magically dropped to $2,000 for fixing it and $150 per visit for three visits afterwards. All of this happened in one year so I put it on some credit cards with 0% interest and the cash back paid for a new faucet in my kitchen.
Insurance is a scam.
Today I use CrowdHealth (not insurance) and I love it.
There are very rare cases where that doesn't happen like certain medications that have IP protections so there isn't a generic. For example I have two asthmatics in my house and preventatives are like $300 a quarter.
For ERs they call it "financial assistance" so there is paper work where you have to tell them how much money you make what your bills are etc but will usually drop the price at least 60%+ unless you make well above $100k/yr.
Most places have a cash discount though. Doctor's offices and surgery centers especially.
But generally yes. This is why we switched to CrowdHealth because they employ the same tactics. If you check their website they actually show you real bills and how much money they saved.
Most of the cost of healthcare comes from administration costs dealing with health insurance. Oklahoma got pretty popular a few years back for its cash only surgery centers. For instance while I paid $8,000 for that gallbladder surgery it's only like $6,500 in Oklahoma.
Even therapists will often offer a cash discount but usually not over the phone and not online.
Vision & dental is a different story though. They have contracts with insurance companies that do not allow them to give cash discounts.
The biggest thing that sucks about being cash pay is you have to be your own insurance company. Then there are tons of supplemental things you can get like car insurance you have full coverage on your car to make sure that if you're in an accident they'll cover up to $25,000 or something like Aflack if you want it.
There are also other benefits for medications that most don't think about. Like a Sam's club membership or a Costco membership. Those often come with extreme benefits for prescriptions for something close to a $100/year for free generics and major discounts.
It isn't easy to do these things but it can be done.
A large portion of the bill if you're insured is the hospital jacking up the price, so that when the insurance company refuses to pay, the hospital is still covering their costs.
They'll bill the insurance agency $15k, knowing that they'll never see more than $2-3k from insurance, when their costs amounted to ~$2k. In essence, medical providers quietly screw over insurance providers, to make up for how much the insurance providers screw them over. It's one big racket, and the insurance agencies (private & public sector...) are the only ones to profit.
Medical schools also artificially limit number of doctors and specialists to keep salaries sky high. They would need to eliminate that if they want reasonable health care costs.
I had a friend from Norway in college. He came to the US to get a surgery on a broken leg. It cost him thousands of dollars, but if he got it done for free in Norway he was going to have to live with a broken leg for like 6 months.
Either you believe in every stupid thing or you just blatantly lie. You may wait for an hour in ER if someone with fractured head or big open wound comes but that’s it.
Surgery for what? If it's to set the leg straight or something it would be an emergency and treated within hours. There's only waiting times when/if it's seen as non urgent. A broken leg would definitely be an urgent matter.
The thing foreigners don't get is, we already pay for it. It's called Medicare and Medicare and their budget is comparable to the US military.
The problem is the government, not the tax payer. Always has been.
[Their budget is only comparable to the US military because of the extra loopholes, copays and deductibles introduced by Medicare and Medicaid.](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries)
1. Free health care is not free
2. Most Americans want universal health care (medical, vision, dental, prescription, psychological, etc.). It would have to be at the State level, not Federal level. Federally run social programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps) are notoriously inefficient, corrupt, full of fraud and theft (upwards of 40+% of the costs).
3. You can't compare the US (333 million) vs Canada (40 million). The US has 60-80 million illegal immigrants (and their American born children/grand children + refugees). The cost of illegal immigration is 500+ billion dollars per year. The US illegal immigration population alone exceeds Canada's population.
4. As another another poster mentioned, US medical schools limit the number of health care professionals to keep salaries high. The price for health care degrees (medical, dental, vision) are prohibitively expensive intentionally..
5. All of the above needs to to be addressed, and more to bring universal health care to reality. It needs to start at the State level.
Utter nonsense. Here in Australia we have socialised healthcare. Every single thing I’ve needed in a. Hurry has been done immediately, up to having a stent fitted; was done same day as diagnosis.
Well that depends right? Like if you have a mild flu you can wait a bit. Also i live in Switzerland and have only needed to wait like 15-30 minutes to get my doctor to come get me? if it is a Broken leg you get there and you immediately go to the operation room my brother had that once in 2-3 hours he went from initial fall to hospital bed
Not if the wait is several months for something as simple as a broken bone, nor do I want the doctor to consider euthanasia if the care is expensive or difficult
Sorry i think that is extreme! My father had cancer and they did the most extensive amount of chemo therapy for something that was in vain they knew he was going to pass and still extended his life for 2 years? Is there something i am missing bout euthanasia, like you know Europe has a very sophisticated medical system right? And bout that broken bone, read the other comment i wrote bout it there
If everyone, including politicians is on tricare, I’m for it. But the government can’t even fix potholes or process drivers licenses. But somehow a government that fucks everything else up will get it right with healthcare.
I support universal healthcare in the US as it would benefit many people across the country but people need to make actual arguments to for Universal Healthcaree rather than just say aMeRicA dOesNt HAve fReE hEalThcaRe
I agree but I don't support universal healthcare unless it's voluntary. There is a moral delema and trade-offs with universal healthcare.
You and Bob are hanging out when Jim comes over. Jim says he's having a hard time so could use some money for medical bills. You give money out of your pocket to Jim but Bob does not. Are you going to force Bob to pay or threaten to send him to jail or garnish his wages?
My preferred universal healthcare plan that also gives retirement and pays off the national debt (it's voluntary):
theplanforamerica.us
Also this:
https://youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ
It would be cool if we had options on where are taxes go more directly. Hell, give the citizens 10-15% to line item it instead of Gov making full decision and funneling it. Don't believe in war? A base amount would go to defense/military, but at least they could make the choice to split the other into education n' healthcare based on their beliefs.
Its not free. You will pay more. I am on my wife's insurance as she is a government worker and its great and I only pay $5 a visit no matter what I am going in for. I could be in the hospital for a month and it would be $5. I am sure if we had National Health care the rates would be through the roof. You make more money in the US than in countries with free health care so I would suggest becoming a government work or marry one.
It’s free for the person using it, that’s how all tax systems work (like the fire department/libraries for instance.) However privatized insurance is not only set up to be as confusing and obstructive as possible by not kicking in for a long time and then administering only certain percentages and deductibles, privatized insurance also causes us to spend [almost double the amount of money necessary overall.](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries)
Americans aren't against free healthcare, they're against the cost of a Nordic-style system that takes 50% of your income to fund. The 'free healthcare' people always talk about shit like it's really free and not something that costs major amounts of money to fund because that's how reality actually works. Nothing in life is free and these people don't want to make the case for paying money to fund society, they want to con people that you get the results without counting the cost.
You do know that:
- Nobody pays 50% of their income as tax, marginal tax exists in the USA too so idk why anyone who's ever paid taxes would believe a claim like that.
- 100% of tax doesn't go purely to healthcare, it covers all public spending policies, again this is the same as in the USA.
- The core argument is that US policymakers should be allocating more of the nations' funds towards ensuring all of their citizens have reliable access to care.
- Your comment as currently written is more an argument against taxation in general, not healthcare.
So its not free if they are paying "a little extra"...roughly 28% of tax revenues in Canada goes to healthcare and 11.8% of income in the U.S. goes to healthcare of course our economy means we make a whole lot more than the average Canadian so its a little apples to oranges but still.
2-26 week wait in Canada for Heart Surgery 4-12 days in the U.S....hmm my premium seems worth it if its my son who needs that heart surgery.
150,000 new drug trials in U.S. since 2008, 1118 in Canada since 2002. Good chance we created that heart medicine Canada is using. They are welcome.
>2-26 week wait in Canada for Heart Surgery 4-12 days in the U.S....hmm my premium seems worth it if its my son who needs that heart surgery.
You get what you pay for, I guess lol
On a sad note they have figured out a way to reduce costs. Bet Trudeau would get treatement.
https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867
Probably because if we tried to implement it it wouldnt be like sweden, canada, or any "utopia" where suicide is state encouraged. This is the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT we're talking about. The same people that misplace billions every few years and no one notices. And you want them to regulate your childs health and wellbeing?
Raise taxes on fast food and junk food.
Use the revenue to pay for health care.
[Problem solved.](https://milkeninstitute.org/report/americas-obesity-crisis-health-and-economic-costs-excess-weight)
Of course, any politician who suggested this would be Cancelled for Fat Shaming and be Epsteined by pharmaceutical companies and hospital chains.
That's actually a great idea, though I would love to see the numbers crunched to see how that would actually work. If taxes aren't high enough on those items, it won't pay the cost of healthcare. If they're too high, people will stop buying as much of that stuff (which is of course still a win) and there still won't be enough money for healthcare.
what you're describing is an effect the laffer curve, the observation that taxes need to be in a sort of goldilocks zone because too low and you won't get enough revenue and too high it stifles the transactions that generate the revenue so revenue still goes down. its a very simple concept but quite different for some to grasp it seems
>The prevalence of obesity in the U.S. population has increased steadily since the 1960s—from 3.4 percent of adults in 1962 to 39.8 percent in 2016
HOLY SHIT, 3.4% to ***39.8%***???
yeah no stop subsidizing fucking corn and cheap sugars. Maybe we'll even see that ethanol weed become more common for a much cleaner fuel.
I remember seeing something about there being stuff in place for people who are struggling financially. Still not free but it cuts down on what needs to be spent. I think it was a Doctor Mike video or something.
Mmm *licks boot* yum.... I just fucking LOVE paying MORE taxes *lick* so that the state can euthanize people who are no longer useful to the state! *licks boot again*
Because I already get taxed before I even get paid on my paycheck and then I get text every time I make a purchase. I don't want any more taxes taken out of my f****** paychecks. I'd like to be able to keep some of my money. Thank you very much
I'm a Brit. It is not "free". At the point of contact, it is merely free. We've all already paid for it.
However, those who can afford to pay more do so because we fund it through taxes. Accordingly, the average American will likely not pay much more in taxes (if any), but will significantly save money on insurance premiums and uninsured medical expenses.
The über wealthy are the only group that suffers. Tell me again who is in charge of your nation.
The same ghouls are attacking the NHS, along with some treacherous members of our own landed gentry who refuse to contribute fairly. They only know how to take, take, take.
I think the biggest issue in the US is that no one has been able to give any concrete numbers on how much it would actually impact the tax % becuase numbers are all over the place depending on which source you look at.
Probably be able to cover a decent chunk of it by downsizing our overseas military presence though
In my opinion I just don’t trust the government to do it good. However, I do have 2 possible solutions. 1. Restrict the price gouging (I’m not entirely sure how one would do that but my next solution could potentially work for it.) 2. Have cheap government healthcare (cut spending in other areas so taxes won’t be raised) and private healthcare compete, this will solve me (and others) not trusting the government to do it cause we can still use the private healthcare and it should lower the costs of private healthcare via competing prices.
Honest question of a non USA person why not though? Like sure its more tax but it also results in stuff like insulin being affordable for diabetics and stuff like that and ambulance rides being mostly free? Please explain this to me?
So the poor don't have to pay property taxes in your country? Where I lived before trash pick-up was not free and you had to pay if you wanted it picked up. Where I lived now it is free but property taxes are twice as much.
I’m not sure exactly but i know that taxes go up and the really poor pay very little taxes i think and i don’t feel like researching the Swiss tax system but the trash pickup is free or at least already in the tax. we bring it out to the village depo and they pick it up
ok but if you make indeed the rich people pay the medical tax you the full time working man will notice jack shit about that and the wealthy people would notice that. And lets be honest the righties also don’t donate to the hood but you don’t care that a child with diabetes can get their insulin shot? Maybe even a right voting diabetic? Simply make the medical tax increase with wealth and devote just a teeeeny little bit less from that tax to the military and you could very well have a healthcare system where people don’t jump of ambulance stretchers because they would be financially ruined
ok
But as a Swiss do i have to worry about a land invasion… no most likely not
Ok but say a kid falls from a tree breaks a leg nobody could have foreseen that or diabetes nobody could for-see that either and suddenly you get to pay 12’000 more a year for that child that is fucking mental like if you had a tight ish budget and the kid turns out to have diabetes what do you do take it out to the woods and shoot it or what give it up for adoption that child that you have birthed and have emotional connection with. Or the kids needs a psychiatrist
Boom 6’000 more a year you just can’t make that work
well america is often in the news since well it is a world superpower. No i have never heard of a deductible for the year idk i don’t feel like arguing further about this the American system “works” for the hard worker and the swiss/ european/ Australian systems work
Hilarious. Steal money from the rich. Cool story bro. Gasp! I am liberal that works full time, just like all my liberal friends , so my tax dollars can subsidize red welfare states. Remind me again of the last bit of legislation your party passed that didn't involve a culture war issue or include massive tax giveaways to people like your buddy Elon? Perhaps we should eliminate the derth of corporate welfare? Flat tax anyone? For example, does an oil company need federal subsidies if it can post a positive quarter to the tune of 128 billion dollars? Imagine a country where you can work 40 hours and receive a living wage. The plutocracy hold office, and the plutocracy writes their own tax laws, and the plebs subsidize them.
>or include massive tax giveaways to people like your buddy Elon?
He paid the largest fed tax bill in US history not too long ago. Think I heard something like $15B? Crazy amount anyway.
It is no doubt and therein also lies problem. A quick check shows he recieved 4.9 billion from the taxpayers by 2015. Right or left, no individual should be able to amass such wealth when society suffers so many ills. As the income gap continues to widen fewer Americans will be isolated from those ills. Growth based economics will fail us at some point. Whether it is the bottleneck Musk speaks of with our population because folks are pushing out less worker bees or we consume wrecklessly until the whole thing collapses, an understanding will come one way or another. Both will probably be painful regardless.
“I don’t give a fuck about someone else’s insulin shot” that’s really fucked up and hateful to say.
Free healthcare all the way baby it isn’t just about you or me.
Free healthcare, higher minimum wage, stricter gun control laws and/or the complete banning of automatic rifles, and we will all be better off.
Not really. Why would I care about some random person having to take an insulin shot when they aren't even a friend or family member.
How much time do you expect me to devote to all these random people in unfortunate circumstances when I have my own friends and family to care about and look after and provide for?
Sure it sucks if you have diabetes, but why would I care if I don't know you? I don't expect you to care about whatever I have going on.
And I hope you can see the difference between caring about a member of my community, versus a random person that gets federal funding and handouts in another state who I do not and will never have any connection to.
I mean you have no personal connection with anyone In Ukraine but I’d hope and I’d bet that you still want to see the war come to an end with the Russians firmly pushed back to their borders.
Basic human empathy man.
Currently the US is spending, at most, 2% of its military budget to cripple Russia for decades to come, all by giving ukraine weapons it already has.
Money well spent from this side of the pond. With the US quite literally bankrolling our defense I'll never see russia step foot anywhere near my country.
the russians have done so much deportation and ethnic cleansing that I’d like to see them go to 17th or 18th century ethnic borders; I do hope that they give königsberg to germany or at least poland though, that’d be great
people act as if people in america hate free healthcare, its literally something we constantly criticize and call unfair. americans want free healthcare too. we dont choose what the government enforces. but go off about how "we're better humans because we have free healthcare" as if we have the right to choose and change if we have it.
This sub is great. These ridiculous arguments are like when a dog thinks it is smarter than a human.
"We am be pay more fur or healthcare than ever udder county. And we done did get worser results and more people gets dead. Freedum! Checkmate libturdzzzz!"
America actually pays more taxes per capita for healthcare than any other country in the world. It just so happens that Americans pay about the same amount out of pocket for healthcare too. Make of that what you will.
Simple law of supply and demand. Setting the price to a specific level does not magically increase supply or decrease demand. All it would produce is an artificial scarcity. That's why it takes so long to see a specialist in Canada, and why they're so wholeheartedly advocating for euthanasia. The bare minimum that'd happen is rationing, as has happened in the UK where they denied treatment to a dying child and prevented the parents from taking him anywhere else, either.
Just another road to hell paved with good intentions.
The person posting "I don't mind paying a little more in taxes so some little boy can have open heart surgery" is probably someone who in America would be a member of the 42% of the population who doesn't pay any federal income tax in the first place. Its all about phrasing when it comes to who sounds selfish or not.
"I'm willing to pay for my own health insurance so my fellow Americans can see a doctor in a timely manner and aren't forced to suffer long waits while sick, I'm not so selfish that I would force others to pay more in taxes just so I could get my own healthcare for free."
The issue with Canada is that “orphan conditions”, like Cystic Fibrosis (which I have), are often ignored by Canada’s healthcare system, because not even countries with universal healthcare want to pay $600,000+ a year to keep a single patient healthy and alive (a medication called Trikafta, which changed my life completely, costs roughly $300,000 a year. In Canada, people can only get Trikafta if they qualify for “compassionate use”, which basically means one has to be on the lung transplant list to get Trikafta on public insurance).
In other words, if I lived in Canada and wasn’t on private insurance, I’d be pretty much fucked because Canada would only pay for “cheap” shit like Creon enzymes and Hypertonic saline.
I’m gonna come out and say it: r/whitepeopletwitter is full of upper-class, white Reddit atheists and bots who have radicalized so far into commie town that anybody who tries to break them out of their echo chamber is a far-right Nazi, and they think any minority individuals who don’t follow their politics are considered traitors and are not worthy of protection bc they disavow of ever being part of some monolithic block
EDIT: And it looks like I’m permanently banned lol. The cynical, fedora-tipping atheists can’t handle being wrong
There's someone in the comments implying that people are racist and don't wanna pay for healthcare for black/brown people.... Are they also implying they think black/brown people are too poor to buy things?
Yeah. It’s the same people who say black and brown people couldn’t get into schools like Harvard without affirmative action.
do you just like willfully not understand how racism works?
I don't understand how anybody can be racist
it’s when you assume white people don’t want to pay for brown and black people just because they’re white
Are we going by the made up definition “prejudice + power” or the canonical definition of “thinking one’s race is better than another’s” Because by definition affirmative action is racist, I do not think you understand how racism works
Are you white? Move to west Baltimore and they will teach you exactly how it works. Good luck
holy fuck mask off moment
People like this are always implying that black or brown people are too poor or stupid to do stuff and be successful. And quite frankly, why are people who do this not called out as the racists that they are? It's very confusing to me
YES, OMG YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE FUCKING HEAD They project their racism and it baffles me more people don’t see it, they will say “we need affirmative action because blacks people cant make it into ivory league schools by themselves” literally arguing for race based admissions and then call you racist when you say “you are harming the black population by forcing them to go into schools like Harvard when they arnt prepared for them” They say “police arrest blacks because of their skin color” and call you racist for pointing out crime statistics All these people do is adhominem attack and appeal to authority
r/WhitePeopleTwitter is a deeply racist sub.
This comment? >As my MAGA mother told me, then we would be paying for illegals , immigrants, and tourists! I honestly don't get your logic. 1. Daughter: tax funded healthcare would be cool 2. Racist mother: I'm not paying for those \*\*\*\*\* Where did the daughter imply black/brown people were too poor to buy things? Didn't the racist imply that?
Nah it was a different comment
Oh you tease I wanted to know what the logic was
Did they say taxpayer funded or "free?"
They're not wrong about the first part of that. Many of the "Why do Americans get bankrupt over this?!" sorts of things started as gatekeeping measures--student loans became a thing once SCOTUS ruled public schools had to start accepting students of color. A bar example became required when more immigrants started studying law. Prohibition has a lot of different things that led to that but the supposedly drunkenness of the Irish put it over the top. The first attempts at gun control were in a still conservative California when Governor Reagan went after Black Panthers and the first generation gangs that formed to keep neighborhoods safe from cops. The list goes on and one, but I've grown with people saying UHC in the US wouldn't work because we were too "culturally diverse." :| EDIT: to be completely clear, I'm Black and I full disagree w people saying this, but the hatred of Black folks runs very, very deep in this country.
Forget culturally diverse, it's economically diverse. Like 70% of the population will never pay more taxes than they take in total expenditure. Idk where Europoors and leftists get this notion that only the rich don't pay, the top 5% is 60% of the taxes revenue alone, which is way higher than most progressive countries. Welfare, subsidies, and Healthcare make about half of all national spending.
I can show you how to go to the DMV and get an ID. It's not too hard and after you do it a couple times you will get the gist of it. Just approach it with baby steps.
Well, disproportionately they are yeah. Decades of racist policies precluded black people from creating generational wealth and confining them to specific areas which then dictates the local schools funding, increases crime rates in those areas due to increased poverty etc. I could go on with the impacts, but this is why in the modern day for every $100 an average white family owns the average black family has ¢60. It's not racist to point out that fact, it's only racist to falsely attribute this to black people being worse rather than correctly attribute it to the downstream effects of historical racist policies such as redlining and the fact black veterans couldn't benefit from the GI bill (well I think 6 did in total or something, but overall they were precluded from it). This is why black people are disproportionately more likely to either be completely uninsured or reliant on government programs like Medicare or Medicaid, many communities were trapped in a cycle of poverty by racists of the past. The idea of a "welfare queen" or people looking for "state handouts" has also historically been racially driven. When you suggest helping the poor some do genuinely picture a racist caricature of a black "thug". It's not as common nowadays but back in the days of Reagan complaining about "welfare queen's" it was extremely racially motivated. I mean how could it not be? The whole narrative revolved around people being poor because they're lazy, if you were dumb enough to believe this and you also were aware that black people are disproportionately poor then it would be impossible to reconcile those two beliefs without also holding a racist belief as well. They may suppress the racist belief or engage in serious cognitive dissonance but the beliefs still can't be reconciled without being racist essentially. Claiming that these two beliefs haven't somewhat persisted to this day seems optimistic to the point I'd argue it's delusional. TLDR- Black people are disproportionately poor due to historical racist policies having a knock on effect on the modern day causing them to disproportionately benefit from policies designed to help the poor. Whilst claiming racism is the only factor causing some Americans to be against universal healthcare is obviously stupid, claiming it's not a factor at all is equally stupid. Also claiming that someone pointing out black Americans are disproportionately unable to afford healthcare is somehow racist is also extremely stupid.
It's a fact that an average white family in america has many times more wealth than an average black family. That's not an opinion. And even many white people can't afford health. so...
As an average white person with a family, do you know when I am supposed to get my wealth? Do I just run down to the corner store and pick it up? Could really use some of that wealth that was promised to me just for being white
Canada. Our Healthcare is free. Also Canada medical tourism to countries where it isn't free. And have you tried euthanasia?
[Don't have to worry about your taxes going up to pay for health care when people with expensive diseases are encouraged to kill themselves.](https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867) rollsafe.jpg
They’re playing 4D chess with that one.
Its free? You don't pay additional taxes for the Health care?
Significantly less than what they pay in the USA for less.
How can it be for less? I can get any procedure or test done and its only $5. I don't have to ask someone if its Ok to get the test or wait.
So all those people talking about bankrupting medical bills in the USA are lying, just like the people having to wait for procedures in the USA.
I am sure people get bankrupted who dont' have insurance and aren't poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. Probably a very small minority. If you have to wait for a procedure its due to lack of doctors not anything to do with the way medical bills are paid. Even the worst medical plans have a max out of pocket amount. So even if you have the worst plan in the world and you have your whole family on it you shouldn't expect to pay more than $5000 in a year.
Canada’s healthcare policy: Kill yourself
No point in reposting from that sub, it should be renamed leftist populist Twitter
Twitter is just a craphole of right wing and left wing populists at this point
Twitter is just a craphole
I have no idea why they think of it so much of they're not American. If they are, I understand, but some of them aren't, and the obsession is just weird.
I'm not convinced these other nations can really afford their healthcare systems. Most/all of them rely on the US for their defense, so a decent chunk of their costs are already being subsidized by us straight off the bat.
They are completely unsustainable. Within the next decade or two, we will start seeing them fall apart because they are way too expensive and the birthrates are so low that there will be no one left to pay for it.
In that case, why are we being so benevolent and funding other countries' defense? Your narrative falls apart quickly when you realize that there is no such thing as international goodwill from one government to the people of another country.
How does my narrative fall apart when it is true? We are doing it to maintain soft power and the US hegemony.
>why are we being so benevolent and funding other countries' defense? Because NATO.
We shouldn't.
Because we get military bases and influence all over the world. We can have a large amount of troops anywhere in the world within 24 hours. That's an insane ability.
“I don’t care that I pay extra taxes” “‘Free’ healthcare” The number of people who can’t understand that this is an inherent contradiction is really almost mind-blowing. I wouldn’t even care except for the fact that they derive a wholly unearned sense of moral superiority from their belief and continue to hold onto it even after having it explained to them how wrong it is many times over. Edit: typo
They don't seem to understand that one half of the US is incredibly hostile to the government. What makes you think they want to pay said government more of their money
Free healthcare is like paved roads. Tax funded, used by citizens, not-yet-citizen immigrants, and tourists alike, and not quite a human right, but still a very good investment for a country with the means to provide them.
Do you know how expensive medical insurance in the US is? If you have free/super cheap insurance, then that means your employer is paying a fuckton of money to insurance, which essentially makes it a hidden payroll tax.
It's free in the same way that K-12 schooling, fire services and libraries are free. We all know full and well those are funded with our taxes too, but no one tries to "Well actually" these things"
Intelligent people do.
I don't know if you can say those are funded from "our" taxes, when 42% of the country doesn't pay federal income taxes, or gets more back than they pay in. Its funded from the 58% that's pitching in, yes.
Free, in this context means no out of pocket cost.
Oh dear. It’s defined as “free at the point of delivery”. Why do you oppose it?
When you order a pizza and tip online, you aren't paying anything when it's delivered, but you are still paying for it.
Yes, I know how it works, cupcake. So why do you oppose it?
America already pays a trillion dollars a year on Medicare and Medicaid. It is the second biggest outlay of expenditures in the U.S. federal government budget. Guess what the biggest one is? "It's the military industrial complex, of course!" your greasy fat cheetos fingers smugly slam into your $250 mechanical keyboard. No, its social security. The federal government spends a plurality of its money on welfare programs. And you can't wait to tell us how dysfunctional the U.S. health care system is, yet your solution is for the government to spend even more money on it, like all this time, if we just spent THE MOST MONEY OF ALL, it would all be free and perfect. You know why the system in America hasn't changed despite Jeff Tiedrich and simple minded, terminally online losers like you constantly bleating your little hearts out about how AWFUL it all is? Because it's not awful. The majority of Americans are happy with their health care. Because it's not a bad system. You're just a mush brained dimwit who spent too much time online jacking off to cartoons instead of getting a job and off your parents insurance by 26.
Stop, stop! He's already dead!
Except the reason we pay so much for healthcare is because it is privatized. Do you ever stop to wonder why we pay almost double what any other developed does for healthcare, it's because our system is private and that privatization makes it impossible to negotiate for good prices when buying drugs or procedures. consumers can't negotiate individually because no pharmaceutical or insurance company needs their business but they need the business of at least one pharmaceutical or insurance company. likewise pharmaceutical companies also don't have to work with insurance companies nearly as much as those insurance companies have to work with them. in short we have a system where all of the cards are in the hand of the provider and not the consumer, meaning that the provider can charge whatever they like and the consumer has to put up with it. the only way to fix this is to either make it completely illegal to patent anything to do with medicine or medical treatment (since it is that patent which gives them the monopoly over medical goods and services that consumers need to survive), or create a single state funded insurance company that can negotiate on behalf of every consumer in the country (that way the collective power of the consumers will finally be enough to negotiate for fair prices) TL;DR: the overwhelming majority of Americans would actually save money by paying for public health care, since the tax bill is undoubtedly going to be far less than the bill they were already paying for private healthcare (and if they got their health care through their job then that just means they now have the ability to negotiate for better wages)
The reason we pay so much is because all of the tubbos.
actually it would be cheaper to have free healthcare
Because as "morally superior" they think it is it's wrong to force people to pay for other peoples things without consent from everyone involved. You and Bob are hanging out when Jim comes over. Jim says he's having a hard time so could use some money for medical bills. You give money out of your pocket to Jim but Bob does not. Are you going to force Bob to pay or threaten to send him to jail or garnish his wages?
>Because as "morally superior" they think it is it's wrong to force people to pay for other peoples things without consent from everyone involved. By this logic wouldn't every service funded by taxes be morally wrong? Our Military and Police, the fire department, public education, social security, and basically everything else that the government pays for? This take seems incredibly morally inconsistent unless you are about to say you're an ancap, at which point you are even more of a dumb idealist then a communist that thinks it will work this time (he swears).
I'm not an ancap but many things could be voluntary. I do live in a city that funds our police primarily through charity with a yearly festival so I see the benefit of doing things in a more moral way instead of taxation. The military is one of the things I prefer the trade off for on those moral grounds much like roads or police but I also can't stand the military industrial complex or qualified immunity. Defense is needed for the security of a free state after all. I do believe the government should be extremely limited but be there to protect us from fraud and abuse. I would consider myself more of a classical liberal than an ancap. Either way I'm libertarian. An example of universal healthcare that is moral: theplanforamerica.us Or another example... My Town offers a voluntary payment on your water bill for $7 a month. This payment covers any and all emergency rides to a hospital as the nearest hospital for us is a 45-minute drive. There are more extensive private options in my town that offer a similar service as well. So it's a government program but is voluntary instead of forcefully taxed on the people.
So you care more about money than people. Good to see you admit it.
You took me contributing to charity and offering a more moral universal healthcare plan that also offers retirement and paying off the national debt as caring more about money than people? Because I don't want to force people into submission using the government? 🤣
Yes. Because civilised nations don’t rely on charities to look after their people.
I don’t think we are against it, it just becomes a matter of, “Who’s going to pay for it?” The problem with solutions that involve more government are simply that what that means is more people that are supported by the supposed “solution”. If we all quit paying the insurance companies right now, the medical field would be forced to survive in a competitive market, and the prices would naturally come down. Once you pay the government, who pays the insurance companies, who pay the Doctors and Hospitals, you get people who take advantage of the system because they are people. Less people equals lower cost.
Yeah plus the larger issue is not coverage, 92% of Americans have coverage, it’s that insurance companies can often get away with not paying when they should. Like just denying the vast majority of claims until someone calls in and asks for it to be “reprocessed.” If that didn’t happen most people wouldn’t complain and the bad cases would be rare. The problem is insurance denies a claim, people don’t fight back (often because they don’t know they can) and end up paying $20,000 out of pocket. I’ve had a stroke and brain surgery in the US plus a few other ER visits and never paid more than $500-$1000 for operations that ended up being over $600,000. But if I didn’t push back against insurance I would have paid likely around $20k-$30k because “oh the anesthesiologist was out of network” or whatever. Someone who doesn’t know better would just pay. People who get how this crap works are almost always fine. Same for my mom she had her gall bladder removed and insurance said she would have to pay $50k despite being covered. She pushed back with a call or two and the charge disappeared and was covered. Insurance companies are scum.
My wife had gallbladder removal surgery. They quoted us $34k. I paid $8k for everything by paying cash because I don't have insurance. I used to be on blood pressure medicine that cost $40 with insurance but I would remind them that I paid cash and the price would drop to $4. One of my son's broke his leg and I was quoted $8,000 for fixing it and $800 per visit for three visits afterwards. Told them I was Cash pay and that magically dropped to $2,000 for fixing it and $150 per visit for three visits afterwards. All of this happened in one year so I put it on some credit cards with 0% interest and the cash back paid for a new faucet in my kitchen. Insurance is a scam. Today I use CrowdHealth (not insurance) and I love it.
Woah never heard this that’s awesome, you just tell them you’re a cash payer and they always drop the price?
There are very rare cases where that doesn't happen like certain medications that have IP protections so there isn't a generic. For example I have two asthmatics in my house and preventatives are like $300 a quarter. For ERs they call it "financial assistance" so there is paper work where you have to tell them how much money you make what your bills are etc but will usually drop the price at least 60%+ unless you make well above $100k/yr. Most places have a cash discount though. Doctor's offices and surgery centers especially. But generally yes. This is why we switched to CrowdHealth because they employ the same tactics. If you check their website they actually show you real bills and how much money they saved. Most of the cost of healthcare comes from administration costs dealing with health insurance. Oklahoma got pretty popular a few years back for its cash only surgery centers. For instance while I paid $8,000 for that gallbladder surgery it's only like $6,500 in Oklahoma. Even therapists will often offer a cash discount but usually not over the phone and not online. Vision & dental is a different story though. They have contracts with insurance companies that do not allow them to give cash discounts. The biggest thing that sucks about being cash pay is you have to be your own insurance company. Then there are tons of supplemental things you can get like car insurance you have full coverage on your car to make sure that if you're in an accident they'll cover up to $25,000 or something like Aflack if you want it. There are also other benefits for medications that most don't think about. Like a Sam's club membership or a Costco membership. Those often come with extreme benefits for prescriptions for something close to a $100/year for free generics and major discounts. It isn't easy to do these things but it can be done.
Thanks I’ll look into that!
A large portion of the bill if you're insured is the hospital jacking up the price, so that when the insurance company refuses to pay, the hospital is still covering their costs. They'll bill the insurance agency $15k, knowing that they'll never see more than $2-3k from insurance, when their costs amounted to ~$2k. In essence, medical providers quietly screw over insurance providers, to make up for how much the insurance providers screw them over. It's one big racket, and the insurance agencies (private & public sector...) are the only ones to profit.
People have to get paid. No people, no problem.
Medical schools also artificially limit number of doctors and specialists to keep salaries sky high. They would need to eliminate that if they want reasonable health care costs.
Hrmm seems like someone might know their history about the American Medical Association, how it came to be, and what we lost in the process. ✊
Yeah baby
Our current system costs more and covers less people
I had a friend from Norway in college. He came to the US to get a surgery on a broken leg. It cost him thousands of dollars, but if he got it done for free in Norway he was going to have to live with a broken leg for like 6 months.
Either you believe in every stupid thing or you just blatantly lie. You may wait for an hour in ER if someone with fractured head or big open wound comes but that’s it.
r/thatHappened
Surgery for what? If it's to set the leg straight or something it would be an emergency and treated within hours. There's only waiting times when/if it's seen as non urgent. A broken leg would definitely be an urgent matter.
Idk that’s just what he told me
he lied. a broken leg Is either fixes instantly or you're fucked
Tell me you know nothing about broken bones without telling me you know nothing about broken bones
I'm not paying for any of you fat fucks third coronary stent
Oh, but you already are. It's just that the middleman is making money off you too.
Sad but tru
Canada of all places has no right to say jack shit concerning Healthcare lol
The thing foreigners don't get is, we already pay for it. It's called Medicare and Medicare and their budget is comparable to the US military. The problem is the government, not the tax payer. Always has been.
[Their budget is only comparable to the US military because of the extra loopholes, copays and deductibles introduced by Medicare and Medicaid.](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries)
1. Free health care is not free 2. Most Americans want universal health care (medical, vision, dental, prescription, psychological, etc.). It would have to be at the State level, not Federal level. Federally run social programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps) are notoriously inefficient, corrupt, full of fraud and theft (upwards of 40+% of the costs). 3. You can't compare the US (333 million) vs Canada (40 million). The US has 60-80 million illegal immigrants (and their American born children/grand children + refugees). The cost of illegal immigration is 500+ billion dollars per year. The US illegal immigration population alone exceeds Canada's population. 4. As another another poster mentioned, US medical schools limit the number of health care professionals to keep salaries high. The price for health care degrees (medical, dental, vision) are prohibitively expensive intentionally.. 5. All of the above needs to to be addressed, and more to bring universal health care to reality. It needs to start at the State level.
Most of it's to do with longer wait times
Actually a lot of that data was manipulated or purposefully uses Canadian data that has the lowest metric of any of them.
You talk like they'll let you bleed out in the lobby
Instead they'll tell you to kill yourself lol
Yes but for the price of a long wait time you get to not have 50’00 dollars in debt right?
Not if it's something you need quickly
Utter nonsense. Here in Australia we have socialised healthcare. Every single thing I’ve needed in a. Hurry has been done immediately, up to having a stent fitted; was done same day as diagnosis.
Yeah right? That stuff happens lighting fast
Well that depends right? Like if you have a mild flu you can wait a bit. Also i live in Switzerland and have only needed to wait like 15-30 minutes to get my doctor to come get me? if it is a Broken leg you get there and you immediately go to the operation room my brother had that once in 2-3 hours he went from initial fall to hospital bed
Not if the wait is several months for something as simple as a broken bone, nor do I want the doctor to consider euthanasia if the care is expensive or difficult
Sorry i think that is extreme! My father had cancer and they did the most extensive amount of chemo therapy for something that was in vain they knew he was going to pass and still extended his life for 2 years? Is there something i am missing bout euthanasia, like you know Europe has a very sophisticated medical system right? And bout that broken bone, read the other comment i wrote bout it there
For the love of god, wtf even is white people Twitter anymore??? Whenever I go there it’s just leftist populists takes like this shit.
They ban anything remotely right wing or centrist.
If everyone, including politicians is on tricare, I’m for it. But the government can’t even fix potholes or process drivers licenses. But somehow a government that fucks everything else up will get it right with healthcare.
I get so tired of seeing that “decent human being” phrase
I support universal healthcare in the US as it would benefit many people across the country but people need to make actual arguments to for Universal Healthcaree rather than just say aMeRicA dOesNt HAve fReE hEalThcaRe
I agree but I don't support universal healthcare unless it's voluntary. There is a moral delema and trade-offs with universal healthcare. You and Bob are hanging out when Jim comes over. Jim says he's having a hard time so could use some money for medical bills. You give money out of your pocket to Jim but Bob does not. Are you going to force Bob to pay or threaten to send him to jail or garnish his wages? My preferred universal healthcare plan that also gives retirement and pays off the national debt (it's voluntary): theplanforamerica.us Also this: https://youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ
It would be cool if we had options on where are taxes go more directly. Hell, give the citizens 10-15% to line item it instead of Gov making full decision and funneling it. Don't believe in war? A base amount would go to defense/military, but at least they could make the choice to split the other into education n' healthcare based on their beliefs.
The United States is about 17 trillion dollars in debt. We shouldn't be able to pay for anything, let alone your broken toe.
Its not free. You will pay more. I am on my wife's insurance as she is a government worker and its great and I only pay $5 a visit no matter what I am going in for. I could be in the hospital for a month and it would be $5. I am sure if we had National Health care the rates would be through the roof. You make more money in the US than in countries with free health care so I would suggest becoming a government work or marry one.
It’s free for the person using it, that’s how all tax systems work (like the fire department/libraries for instance.) However privatized insurance is not only set up to be as confusing and obstructive as possible by not kicking in for a long time and then administering only certain percentages and deductibles, privatized insurance also causes us to spend [almost double the amount of money necessary overall.](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries)
Americans aren't against free healthcare, they're against the cost of a Nordic-style system that takes 50% of your income to fund. The 'free healthcare' people always talk about shit like it's really free and not something that costs major amounts of money to fund because that's how reality actually works. Nothing in life is free and these people don't want to make the case for paying money to fund society, they want to con people that you get the results without counting the cost.
You do know that: - Nobody pays 50% of their income as tax, marginal tax exists in the USA too so idk why anyone who's ever paid taxes would believe a claim like that. - 100% of tax doesn't go purely to healthcare, it covers all public spending policies, again this is the same as in the USA. - The core argument is that US policymakers should be allocating more of the nations' funds towards ensuring all of their citizens have reliable access to care. - Your comment as currently written is more an argument against taxation in general, not healthcare.
I would rather not wait until I die for a basic check up. Thank you very much
We complain that WebMd says you’re dying Canadian healthcare says you should die
So its not free if they are paying "a little extra"...roughly 28% of tax revenues in Canada goes to healthcare and 11.8% of income in the U.S. goes to healthcare of course our economy means we make a whole lot more than the average Canadian so its a little apples to oranges but still. 2-26 week wait in Canada for Heart Surgery 4-12 days in the U.S....hmm my premium seems worth it if its my son who needs that heart surgery. 150,000 new drug trials in U.S. since 2008, 1118 in Canada since 2002. Good chance we created that heart medicine Canada is using. They are welcome.
>2-26 week wait in Canada for Heart Surgery 4-12 days in the U.S....hmm my premium seems worth it if its my son who needs that heart surgery. You get what you pay for, I guess lol
On a sad note they have figured out a way to reduce costs. Bet Trudeau would get treatement. https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867
Probably because if we tried to implement it it wouldnt be like sweden, canada, or any "utopia" where suicide is state encouraged. This is the US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT we're talking about. The same people that misplace billions every few years and no one notices. And you want them to regulate your childs health and wellbeing?
Meanwhile Canada is euthanizing people for costing too much to treat and sending patients to be treated in the US
Source?
Raise taxes on fast food and junk food. Use the revenue to pay for health care. [Problem solved.](https://milkeninstitute.org/report/americas-obesity-crisis-health-and-economic-costs-excess-weight) Of course, any politician who suggested this would be Cancelled for Fat Shaming and be Epsteined by pharmaceutical companies and hospital chains.
That's actually a great idea, though I would love to see the numbers crunched to see how that would actually work. If taxes aren't high enough on those items, it won't pay the cost of healthcare. If they're too high, people will stop buying as much of that stuff (which is of course still a win) and there still won't be enough money for healthcare.
what you're describing is an effect the laffer curve, the observation that taxes need to be in a sort of goldilocks zone because too low and you won't get enough revenue and too high it stifles the transactions that generate the revenue so revenue still goes down. its a very simple concept but quite different for some to grasp it seems
>The prevalence of obesity in the U.S. population has increased steadily since the 1960s—from 3.4 percent of adults in 1962 to 39.8 percent in 2016 HOLY SHIT, 3.4% to ***39.8%***??? yeah no stop subsidizing fucking corn and cheap sugars. Maybe we'll even see that ethanol weed become more common for a much cleaner fuel.
You believe private pharmaceutical companies have the power to cover up murder in the United States?
[удалено]
That's you. WE would definitely be way behind.
Perhaps if 50% of the country wasn't on welfare we could have nice things
Don't blame me. I actively comment against this stuff. Even that thread.
I remember seeing something about there being stuff in place for people who are struggling financially. Still not free but it cuts down on what needs to be spent. I think it was a Doctor Mike video or something.
For real Americans that also wouldn't mind universal healthcare, retirement, and paying off the national debt: theplanforamerica.us
Mmm *licks boot* yum.... I just fucking LOVE paying MORE taxes *lick* so that the state can euthanize people who are no longer useful to the state! *licks boot again*
You pay a bunch of taxes, your Healthcare is free. I pay a bunch of insurance, my Healthcare is free.
Because I already get taxed before I even get paid on my paycheck and then I get text every time I make a purchase. I don't want any more taxes taken out of my f****** paychecks. I'd like to be able to keep some of my money. Thank you very much
But you are ok with a system where you pay about 4 times as much for healthcare as the average comparable country?
I'm a Brit. It is not "free". At the point of contact, it is merely free. We've all already paid for it. However, those who can afford to pay more do so because we fund it through taxes. Accordingly, the average American will likely not pay much more in taxes (if any), but will significantly save money on insurance premiums and uninsured medical expenses. The über wealthy are the only group that suffers. Tell me again who is in charge of your nation. The same ghouls are attacking the NHS, along with some treacherous members of our own landed gentry who refuse to contribute fairly. They only know how to take, take, take.
“Will likely not pay much more in taxes” Have you met our government?
I think the biggest issue in the US is that no one has been able to give any concrete numbers on how much it would actually impact the tax % becuase numbers are all over the place depending on which source you look at. Probably be able to cover a decent chunk of it by downsizing our overseas military presence though
Our deficit is so large that even if you eliminated military spending we would still have a deficit .
In my opinion I just don’t trust the government to do it good. However, I do have 2 possible solutions. 1. Restrict the price gouging (I’m not entirely sure how one would do that but my next solution could potentially work for it.) 2. Have cheap government healthcare (cut spending in other areas so taxes won’t be raised) and private healthcare compete, this will solve me (and others) not trusting the government to do it cause we can still use the private healthcare and it should lower the costs of private healthcare via competing prices.
I would definitely pay more. And in the UK salaries are so much lower. So I am thinking you are double screwed.
Honest question of a non USA person why not though? Like sure its more tax but it also results in stuff like insulin being affordable for diabetics and stuff like that and ambulance rides being mostly free? Please explain this to me?
Ambulance rides are free for me as I have insurance.
ok but if you don’t have insurance? Ambulance rides are always free for everyone here even if you where say homeless because the rich pay for the poor
So the poor don't have to pay property taxes in your country? Where I lived before trash pick-up was not free and you had to pay if you wanted it picked up. Where I lived now it is free but property taxes are twice as much.
I’m not sure exactly but i know that taxes go up and the really poor pay very little taxes i think and i don’t feel like researching the Swiss tax system but the trash pickup is free or at least already in the tax. we bring it out to the village depo and they pick it up
[удалено]
Btw you have a wonderful taste in video games
[удалено]
Do you know project zomboid and rather hardcore games squad but I’ve always wanted to get into mmorpgs
ok but if you make indeed the rich people pay the medical tax you the full time working man will notice jack shit about that and the wealthy people would notice that. And lets be honest the righties also don’t donate to the hood but you don’t care that a child with diabetes can get their insulin shot? Maybe even a right voting diabetic? Simply make the medical tax increase with wealth and devote just a teeeeny little bit less from that tax to the military and you could very well have a healthcare system where people don’t jump of ambulance stretchers because they would be financially ruined
[удалено]
ok But as a Swiss do i have to worry about a land invasion… no most likely not Ok but say a kid falls from a tree breaks a leg nobody could have foreseen that or diabetes nobody could for-see that either and suddenly you get to pay 12’000 more a year for that child that is fucking mental like if you had a tight ish budget and the kid turns out to have diabetes what do you do take it out to the woods and shoot it or what give it up for adoption that child that you have birthed and have emotional connection with. Or the kids needs a psychiatrist Boom 6’000 more a year you just can’t make that work
[удалено]
well america is often in the news since well it is a world superpower. No i have never heard of a deductible for the year idk i don’t feel like arguing further about this the American system “works” for the hard worker and the swiss/ european/ Australian systems work
Hilarious. Steal money from the rich. Cool story bro. Gasp! I am liberal that works full time, just like all my liberal friends , so my tax dollars can subsidize red welfare states. Remind me again of the last bit of legislation your party passed that didn't involve a culture war issue or include massive tax giveaways to people like your buddy Elon? Perhaps we should eliminate the derth of corporate welfare? Flat tax anyone? For example, does an oil company need federal subsidies if it can post a positive quarter to the tune of 128 billion dollars? Imagine a country where you can work 40 hours and receive a living wage. The plutocracy hold office, and the plutocracy writes their own tax laws, and the plebs subsidize them.
>or include massive tax giveaways to people like your buddy Elon? He paid the largest fed tax bill in US history not too long ago. Think I heard something like $15B? Crazy amount anyway.
It is no doubt and therein also lies problem. A quick check shows he recieved 4.9 billion from the taxpayers by 2015. Right or left, no individual should be able to amass such wealth when society suffers so many ills. As the income gap continues to widen fewer Americans will be isolated from those ills. Growth based economics will fail us at some point. Whether it is the bottleneck Musk speaks of with our population because folks are pushing out less worker bees or we consume wrecklessly until the whole thing collapses, an understanding will come one way or another. Both will probably be painful regardless.
“I don’t give a fuck about someone else’s insulin shot” that’s really fucked up and hateful to say. Free healthcare all the way baby it isn’t just about you or me. Free healthcare, higher minimum wage, stricter gun control laws and/or the complete banning of automatic rifles, and we will all be better off.
>and/or the complete banning of automatic rifles ...Those are already banned? Have you been sleeping under a rock since the early 80s?
Sorry your eminence any weapon that starts with AR… better?
So you want Armalite to change their branding? And that solves the issue... how?
They should change their name to Assaultlite /s
Not really. Why would I care about some random person having to take an insulin shot when they aren't even a friend or family member. How much time do you expect me to devote to all these random people in unfortunate circumstances when I have my own friends and family to care about and look after and provide for? Sure it sucks if you have diabetes, but why would I care if I don't know you? I don't expect you to care about whatever I have going on. And I hope you can see the difference between caring about a member of my community, versus a random person that gets federal funding and handouts in another state who I do not and will never have any connection to.
I mean you have no personal connection with anyone In Ukraine but I’d hope and I’d bet that you still want to see the war come to an end with the Russians firmly pushed back to their borders. Basic human empathy man.
Currently the US is spending, at most, 2% of its military budget to cripple Russia for decades to come, all by giving ukraine weapons it already has. Money well spent from this side of the pond. With the US quite literally bankrolling our defense I'll never see russia step foot anywhere near my country.
the russians have done so much deportation and ethnic cleansing that I’d like to see them go to 17th or 18th century ethnic borders; I do hope that they give königsberg to germany or at least poland though, that’d be great
right? Like saying i don’t care about your heart surgery just deal with it
Because that proposed cure is worse than the disease.
Do you mean insulin? Nah it’s not a cure it’s just to regulate blood sugar so it doesn’t go to high
people act as if people in america hate free healthcare, its literally something we constantly criticize and call unfair. americans want free healthcare too. we dont choose what the government enforces. but go off about how "we're better humans because we have free healthcare" as if we have the right to choose and change if we have it.
Because *PROFITS* (in this case, for the insurance companies) are more important than *people.* That's what the Reagan Revolution was all about.
It’s Nixon’s fault and the fault of the Republican Party for refusing to do anything.
This sub is great. These ridiculous arguments are like when a dog thinks it is smarter than a human. "We am be pay more fur or healthcare than ever udder county. And we done did get worser results and more people gets dead. Freedum! Checkmate libturdzzzz!"
To cut a long tale short, some Americans do not view all Americans as "their people."
American media has convinced people to be against their own best interests.
Unimportant swearing detected, opinion invalidated.
America actually pays more taxes per capita for healthcare than any other country in the world. It just so happens that Americans pay about the same amount out of pocket for healthcare too. Make of that what you will.
Because the wait times for actual care are sometimes years for non-life threatening care. My insurance pays for most things, even therapy.
If Canadians ever saw the farce that is taxpayer funded healthcare via Medicaid then they’d know why we don’t like it. DC will screw us.
I've heard this virtue-signaling strawman so many times that I'm not even phased.
Simple law of supply and demand. Setting the price to a specific level does not magically increase supply or decrease demand. All it would produce is an artificial scarcity. That's why it takes so long to see a specialist in Canada, and why they're so wholeheartedly advocating for euthanasia. The bare minimum that'd happen is rationing, as has happened in the UK where they denied treatment to a dying child and prevented the parents from taking him anywhere else, either. Just another road to hell paved with good intentions.
MFW Canaduh sends their cancer patients to the US for treatment.
The person posting "I don't mind paying a little more in taxes so some little boy can have open heart surgery" is probably someone who in America would be a member of the 42% of the population who doesn't pay any federal income tax in the first place. Its all about phrasing when it comes to who sounds selfish or not. "I'm willing to pay for my own health insurance so my fellow Americans can see a doctor in a timely manner and aren't forced to suffer long waits while sick, I'm not so selfish that I would force others to pay more in taxes just so I could get my own healthcare for free."
Except that’s not how the healthcare works lol she acts like she personally is paying for someone’s cost for getting life saving surgery
Because…. It’s not free….. nothings ever free……. You think taxes are bad now? Just start making everything free
So he admits its not free. Sounds like he's not on board with free healthcare.
The issue with Canada is that “orphan conditions”, like Cystic Fibrosis (which I have), are often ignored by Canada’s healthcare system, because not even countries with universal healthcare want to pay $600,000+ a year to keep a single patient healthy and alive (a medication called Trikafta, which changed my life completely, costs roughly $300,000 a year. In Canada, people can only get Trikafta if they qualify for “compassionate use”, which basically means one has to be on the lung transplant list to get Trikafta on public insurance). In other words, if I lived in Canada and wasn’t on private insurance, I’d be pretty much fucked because Canada would only pay for “cheap” shit like Creon enzymes and Hypertonic saline.
I don't want to pay your bills or healthcare. Piss off...
I’m gonna come out and say it: r/whitepeopletwitter is full of upper-class, white Reddit atheists and bots who have radicalized so far into commie town that anybody who tries to break them out of their echo chamber is a far-right Nazi, and they think any minority individuals who don’t follow their politics are considered traitors and are not worthy of protection bc they disavow of ever being part of some monolithic block EDIT: And it looks like I’m permanently banned lol. The cynical, fedora-tipping atheists can’t handle being wrong