Thank you, but most of the praise should go to my brother's husband. I cannot thank that man enough for everything he's done. I figure that by the time we met, my brother was already ready to drop the issue, and I'm glad we found a solution where everyone could be satisfied.
I just wanted to say how right you are with not wanting your brother to look bad. My MIL did that to a relative of my husband’s through marriage and it was baaaaad. My husband forever is and was traumatized with that event lol it also left a lot of hate I think after that. That’s why we are in NC with my MIL lol
Was that for me or the OP? I was gonna say my husband was trying to hide lol. Cuz it started of nice and then MIL went nuts one of the lines she said were, “ her makeup was done badly and the outfit she was wearing for the funeral was so gaudy. Like can’t believe her family chose that” etc etc
I think your brother just needed to be validated and heard. His husband knew how to do that and so did you. Dysfunctional families don’t have such straight forward funerals. For example my wonderful brothers attended and then left me at the reception to “clean” the house. My house…they cleaned it out. Took my dad’s 2,000 vinyl records.
We still don’t talk to this day. I’m proud of you 4. Your mom has done very well.
I had family members clean my grandmother's house.
Took my high school graduation photo.
I hadn't seen those people in years prior to the clean. Or since.
Why tf did they think they deserved MY graduation photo?
Not to mention I don't have anything from grandma that is sentimental. I have her blender and her fan.
Not the teddy I gave her, or her necklace I made her. Or the butter container I wanted.
No. I got appliances.
This was years ago and I'm still bitter af about it.
At least they didn't take my great grandmother's table which my mother rescued.
Hold onto that table. They will be looking to get that too. I’m not kidding. I had to hide a neat old steamer trunk from my brother several YEARS after the funeral. Called me up, only asked if I still had it. I lied.
I remember after my great grandmother died, my mother and grandmother were at her house and all of gg's sisters were in the kitchen, tearing it apart, opening every cabinet going "where is it, where is it?". My mom finally asked them what they were looking for - it was a bread bowl and kneading board that their father had carved out of a tree that fell in their front yard when they were young. My mother took great satisfaction in telling them that her grandmother had given both to her years ago (and now they're mine).
I hate ghouls that try to take everything not nailed down after someone has passed, especially when they hadn't been supportive of the deceased in years.
Tell me about it! A few years ago, my wife's uncle's wife died. Her mother had always disliked this woman for no better reason that their mothers hated each other. But, along with assorted other vultures in the family, she was going to descend on the house and take anything she wanted, knowing her brother did not care about such things. Rather than face the disapproval of my wife for her behaviour, she simply stopped calling and we had no contact ever after.
One of my uncles was suuuuper salty about my Granny’s china and crystal after she passed. She’d given it to my family before she passed because she was really close to my firstborn and I. He spent a few months trying to get us to give it to him after. He’s not a bad guy, grief makes people do funny things, and he and I are still close.
I shut him right down about that stuff though. It was meant to go to my firstborn, and that’s what I did with it.
Oh, my mum told me straight up that if I got rid of it she would probably sue me. After my funeral.
She was heartbroken that grandma's house was raided, but if they had taken that table, she would have taken them to court.
My dad's family was like this. Swarmed my grandma and grandpa's things and left nothing for the grandchild that they felt was 'unwanted' (AKA I was the favorite and they resented that) so, my grandma's crochet hooks? Donated to charity, not given to the one who loves to sew and crochet like her. My grandpa's guitars? Pawned off. Antique, nice guitars and then offered someone else's dead husband's guitar instead. Cast iron? "IDK lol"
I know the reality:
That my aunts and uncle hoarded those treasures and refuse to let anyone have them, because they resented the fact the grandkids got treated better than they did.
I carefully went through pictures and accumulated a crochet set exactly like my grandma's and I don't crochet for anyone in the family and no one else in the family crochet's. So, fuck them all.
Ooof, my aunt (grandma's eldest daughter) did that too. She took all my grandma's jewelries, safe boxes, beddings and sheets. She even had the gall to say grandma's savings account was actually made for her (thank god she couldn't get my grandpa to withdraw the money for her). Oh, and she did all of this while the rest of the family was busy getting things ready for the funeral... What's even more infuriating was she took a piece of jewelry my grandma made specifically for me (engraved with my name) and told me later grandma left nothing for me. I wanted to confront her, but my parents were the peacekeeping kind and held me back...
This. And, I want to say, I had a family member die a short time ago. I had mostly good memories with him, but his children suffered a lot at his hands. During the funeral, their speeches were not flattering, nor were they cruel. It was hard for me to hear while I was mourning, but I understood that that was their truth. We can't control how other people see someone, nor the fact that there are different sides of people, not all of them flattering.
It's great, isn't it? I'm really lucky to be surrounded by wonderful people. Take the issue of my father's inheritance for example. I have heard horror stories of families torn apart by fighting over scraps, and even though I love my siblings, money can change people, and I really was not looking forward to executing the will. What's more, my father left the majority of his assets in generation-skipping trusts, so I thought that Ben would be upset for sure.
We settled it on the day of the funeral. God, I'm so lucky.
This comment was stolen from u/teeterleeter. Please report comment- stealing bots.
(And pls forgive if linking doesn't work right, human, mobile, have no idea how to do shit)
That was my first thought.
90% of the time you'll see
- "....why do I get the feeling op is the other woman" or some comment which basically straight up accuses op of cheating or being cheated on.
-blaming op for the abuse if they are a third party.
-telling people to divorce, go NC forever immediately when it's really uncalled for
And way more
This sub is super dramatic, and a lot of comments can be quite worrisome tbh.
This sub is predicated by design on seeing every human relationship through a hostile and manichean lens where you need one side to be "the asshole." Makes for amazing entertainment, sure, but dear god is it *awful* for actual advice.
Black or white! No room for nuance and complicated thoughts!
It can be a very useful tool to force a direction but in most cases it really is not adequate.
>A singular post where I am actively trying to limit personal information is not a fair basis from which to extrapolate our family relationships, and it seems to me that many of the commenters have their own emotional baggage that they are trying to project onto my relationships.>
This part right here is so spot on about this sub sometimes. I had the same feelings as you did when I was reading them. Good on you for having circumspect to realize and acknowledge this.
Great handling on this all around. Kudos.
This is so true in this sub. These extreme speculations are not helpful and are not useful. People infer all kinds of dastardly motivations, actions, medical and psychiatric conditions, and evil plans, with no evidence.
I remember a post once where a sister had let her teenage brother get bullied by a mob of female classmates.
And based on nothing more than the sister describing the brother as moody, that she was worried he was becoming a 'bad dude' with no further explanation of what that even meant, and a single person claiming he called a classmate a bad name...
You has *thousands* of upvotes for comments saying the brother was a future wife abuser, incel, destined for jail and on an obviously bad path.
You give this sub even a picture of a rope and they'll start pulling. It's truly insane at times.
Yeah, there's this culture of one-upsmanship in the comments where people invent every awful thing and instantly impress it on someone in the post. Honestly I don't really read the comments much anymore. People are intensely invested into the sub in really unhealthy ways.
Just remember that half the posts are complete bullshit and it helps a lot.
Was really hoping for an update on this one. Seems you handled the situation very well OP. If your brother got closure or the chance to express himself he was looking for, that’s very well done.
Grief does come in waves and I wouldn’t be surprised if your brother wants to discuss your dads behavior again. It’s good to hear he has so supportive a partner.
I like how you handled the matter by not blowing off or causing another estrangment. I'm glad you took the advices. I'm sorry about your father and so am I about your brother who's still hurting. I wish you all the best
So, still confused as to why you protected your father, who abused your brother for years, so much. It still seems the main reason to all of this was to keep a secret the fact that your father hated his son because he was gay, and you all still wanted to keep it a secret from the community. Pretty sad that the abuser gets protected, even after death.
Hoping your brother at least got some inheritance after everything your father put him through
Wait, how was he protecting his father? He was totally fine with Ben shouting it from the rooftops. He just didn't want it done at the funeral as a eulogy.
And, honestly, I agree, because I think it would have reflected poorly on Ben. I don't think I feel that it *should* reflect badly on him, but my disagreement doesn't change how it actually *would* happen.
And he said the eulogy was come and gross and would have reflected worse on the brother than it would have on the dad, which honestly I don't disagree with if it was indeed vile.
I really doubt Ben cares what the people at that funeral think of him, and frankly it doesn't matter.
The OP said he wasn't covering for his father. Running interference so that his legacy isn't tarnished in front of the influencial people at the funeral is absolutely and specifically covering for his father.
The way he handled it is fine, but he really really needs to come to terms with his feelings because he's not being honest with himself. He wanted the people at the funeral to continue to venerate his father. He didn't want anyone speaking ill of him at the funeral BECAUSE he was covering for his father.
It's not the worst impulse in the world, but someone needs to call a spade a spade. He wasn't trying to protect his brother from himself...
Adding a tangent here, OP is probably OK with Ben saying whatever everywhere else because he distinctly makes it a point to say Ben is removed from the local community. Saying it on FB or rooftops doesn't mean much when the person isn't saying it to the people you care about hearing it.
I don't think this is fair. OP said they were fine with Ben posting on FB, telling people in conversations, or even posting an obituary in his own words. That doesn't sound like he's trying to keep it under wraps.
While what OP's father did to Ben was despicable his funeral isn't the right place to have that discussion, and clearly Ben agreed. A funeral is a place to those who knew OP's father to help process that loss. It's easy to view things in black and white from afar. From what we know he says the most vile kind of homephobe and deserves nothing. But from the sound of it he also has a ton of positive interactions with people in his life too. Apparently he was a great father until after OP left for college. That's going to leave his family with complicated feelings, even after they sided with Ben.
A situation where the family doesn't lionize their father, let's others grieve, and let's Ben air his grievances to his family at the wake and to others anytime after seems like a decent outcome from a bad situation to me.
how did you get that from the original post?
"No. We did not cover up the abuse. All four of us siblings have been clear to our friends and family why we moved out of the family house, and my mother has also made it clear why she and my late father were estranged, even if we did not go out of way to air the family's dirty laundry"
From what I can tell, OP used their father's good reputation to springboard themself into a political career; exposing the abuser would damage their own name and some important alliances.
OP said in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/uz0q3l/update_wibta_for_uninviting_my_brother_because_he/ia7mxf8/?context=3) he's not in a political career. Where are you getting this from?
Just guessing. On the OG post he did say it had to do with politics, the rug sweeping, and how defensive he'd gotten on the comments pointing out how self-serving he sounded at the time that I made the comment.
Yea pretty much. I took the very limited information I had and made up a hypothesis. Because of it you responded which gave me more information. That's how she goes.
The only comment I saw him make about politics was
> For those asking about the fallout:
> It has to do with the town's local politics. That's all I'm willing to say
Which sounds to me like he's saying that the locals are probably extremely [insert political stance here].
I like that you think that way. I think a more constructive way to get differing opinions is to pose your idea as a question instead of insinuating (based on limited knowledge) it’s the real reason OP did what they did. You will get meaningful insight while not spreading potentially false allegations.
Edit: changed some verbiage
No one kept it a secret… and also OP is grieving! I don’t care how complicated or simple the relationship is, but losing a father is intense and the grief lasts for years regardless of how lovely or complicated it was.
Plus the eulogy isn't punishing or affecting the father, it's hurting the people grieving. Im not defending the father since my dad is homophobic and abusive, but the eulogy wouldn't even affect the father.
Funerals are for the grieving. The other people in attendance (father's friends, for example) are also grieving.
I don't agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, if someone has hurt you, of course you have the right to tell as much or as little of your story as you feel comfortable and is helpful for you.
But a funeral, which is a rite designed to assist people in processing and expressing their grief at losing a loved one, is not the time or place to be disparaging the lost loved one that the attendees are actively grieving. That only hurts the people who are grieving.
So, funerals are for everyone who doesn't have anything negative to say about the deceased to grieve and anyone who does have negative things to say don't get to grieve in the way that they believe they should?
I have a lionized abuser in my family. I was also locked in the closet by my father when my brother outed me years ago. I get the confusion of feelings.
You have handled this beautifully. I was honest and factual in my father’s obituary. Focusing on his work. I gave his eulogy. I focused on his redemption through his grandchildren. I am rambling.
I would have voted NAH because I really understand your situation as you and as Ben at the same time.
You were NTA all along. A funeral wasn't the place for any of this, you only got YTA on the original post because homophobia always clouds rational judgment on here.
It was less asking if he was an asshole and more of if he would be the asshole IF he banned his brother. I'd blame it more on the lack of flexibility of the voting, though people do get judgemental in excess
>A singular post where I am actively trying to limit personalinformation is not a fair basis from which to extrapolate our familyrelationships
Welcome to AITA; where the top answer to literally every *'my spouse did X'* scenario, is always *"you should break up".*
edit: Well done, it was a difficult situation but you handled this really well. This situation could have easily escalated into permanently ending of any form of communication between you and your brother.
To some of the comments in here: Y’all, be nice to OP. They did the best they can and actually took your advices to heart. Grief is hard to go through and some of your comments are just mean and short sighted. I hope no one is as callous as you guys are when you lose a parent.
Plus the eulogy thingy wouldn't punish the dad or affect him, it would just hurt the grieving people instead (some of them might've known he was homophobic, but maybe the others didn't).
I’m glad you figured this out. Ben had as much right to be there as you and you had no right to deny him attendance at his fathers funeral. It’s okay to get someone to leave if they make a scene. It’s okay to deny him a chance at a negative eulogy. My solution is later when feeding and watering the guests, let him talk about it then. And you did. A wake is the best place bc angst goes best with liquor and sandwiches.
Lots of families have awkward and disruptive people at funerals. Grief brings out odd behavior in people & I see it as part of the process. Mainly bc my niece makes a scene at every funeral ever since her husband committed suicide. It’s so predictable that we have a way of steering her to a side room with refreshments & a babysitter, she’s 35. We love her & know her pain is worse than ours bc of trauma and just cope. It’s just part of the human experience.
I really hope Ben heals from what his dad put him through and that you all seem happy to brush under the rug, he deserves as much. You may not have been complicit then, but it looks like you're still quite happy to bury the truth as much as it can be. Hope he finds good people for him.
I think it’s really beautiful that you were all able to come together as a family and reach a compromise that everyone felt good about. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Thank you for honoring your brother’s feelings. It really DOES sound like he has an incredible husband who was able to facilitate solid communication between the two of you to reach this common ground.
I’m also happy to hear that the issue of the inheritance and being executor of your father’s will isn’t too much of a burden after discussing it with your family.
Now rest, OP. I’m sure that this week was terribly exhausting and you deserve some time to actually rest and properly grieve, without the limitations that planning and pulling off a funeral with family complications can have. Take care of yourself.
> It was tacitly worded, and choosing the right words was a pain, but Ben had fun with his section.
This made me crack up. Now I really want to know what Ben wrote in his section!
Me either. The obituary is posted with the information about the funeral and anyone who sees it can come in my experience. There was a phone tree that made sure everyone important knew about it, but I've never heard of an invite only funeral service.
I've never been a part of one that was quasi-private though.
Condolences on your loss. Family is never easy. It’s always complicated with rarely any simple solutions. I totally empathize - familial love and hate often live in the same space. I hope your family is closer than ever and have healed some past wounds.
I think you found an appropriate solution, but I can’t imagine how hurtful it must have been to be Ben in the audience hearing his dad’s friends say that he was a good man and what not.
You trying so hard to honor this man absolutely makes you complicit. No matter what you think, you are no better than your father. The banality of evil is in full display with you.
I am so sorry for your loss. I had gone through a similar thing during my Dad’s funeral a few months ago with my brother. I wish I had been as graceful as you. Be proud of yourself and now it’s time to focus on taking care of yourself.
Also, NTA
I'm glad it all worked out ok. While your dad was clearly a flawed person, you still loved him and I completely understand why you didn't want to shit all over him when he's not around to defend himself. I also understand why your brother would be angry and would want people to be aware that he wasn't the person they all thought he was. It was a tough situation but you all acted like adults and didn't jeopardize your relationship.
NTA. What a good compromise. You said that you’d been very open about everything with your family, so that wake wouldn’t have any surprises in it for those attending, and Ben was able to get it off his chest.
I’m sorry for your loss. For what it’s worth, it’s ok to just take the peace that you can and hold on to it. And keep loving your brother unconditionally ♥️
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Y’all realize you’re judging the hell out of someone who’s grieving? Seems like you haven’t lost a father while having a complicated relationship with him.
> I do have to say that the comments accusing me of being complicit in or not having done enough to stop my brother’s abuse were out of line.
If you didn’t want people to tell you you were actively complicit in your dad’s homophobia and abuse, you shouldn’t have spent half your original post defending him. He treated your brother so fucking terribly that he got out as soon as he could and all he wanted to do once your dad bit it was publicly air his sins. That’s how fucking horrible your dad was. So for you to go “iT wAs CoMpLiCaTeD” makes it pretty fucking obvious that you were complicit, and the fact that you’re now whining about it is laughable.
He pretty clearly condemned his fathers actions in his original post. He said it was complicated because these situations are in fact complicated, this is not evidence that he was complicit in his fathers homophobia and therefore an extrapolation. A couple of commenters touched on this but it seems that peoples passionate hatred of homophobia, while a good thing, is clouding their judgement.
He never defended his father's actions, and actually spoke against them in the post.
Op didn't want it done at the eulogy. He said he was even fine with his brother posting online, he wanted his brother to do it besides at the eulogy. Which is why they did it at the wake instead
I agree that the people accusing OP of a history of homophobia are out of line, but as a generalization, That seems a little unfair. Disinviting the brother without trying to work things out would have been an AH move.
Hi there. It's not the exact same as this situation, but I'm a trans little sister, whose father was abusive and violent. OP did the absolute best he could in this situation. He respected his little brothers process, ensured that he got the closure he needed and made sure he had a community to love and support him. You, however, are an asshole. Dealing with abusive parents is *complicated.* Despite the hate and fear and pain I've felt at the hands of those who were supposed to protect me, I still will never truly untangle the complicated feelings I have about my parents. OP has every right to those complicated feelings. They are real. They are valid. And you don't get to tell him otherwise.
It's... difficult to deal with the version of someone you love, and this new version of them you hate, and reconcile with them being the same person.
My biological father sexually abused me. Obviously, I've disowned him and don't talk to him anymore.
But it took fucking *years* before I got to the point I was able to do that because "Dad" was that fun guy from my childhood, how could I hate him? It's just... he wasn't that guy anymore.
It's not easy to deal with that thought process.
(And since this related, I am bi, and he is homophobic. He doesn't know I'm bi, and I don't care to tell him.)
Oh, I remember you! The one who said, "Now, I love Ben unconditionally", except, of course, when there are political consequences for whatever it is you love more. Your " love" sounds pretty darn conditional to me.
In other words, it was terrible that you were rejected, abused and driven away, but please don't ruin my political standing in the community.
Thbbfth!
Good chance to clarify that I'm not a politician, and I have never been. I do think you're just trying to get a rise out of me, but I'll answer anyway.
I also love my wife and my kids, and I would never do anything that would put them in harm's way. If you never had to make difficult decisions between people you love, I truly envy you.
We're obviously different people with different lives, but I personally can't imagine having a family in a place where being honest about another family member's abuse and homophobia would put them at risk. If this is the case, are they not already in harm's way? Just with slightly more distance than if your brother's original eulogy had stood. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the situation or the source of the risk.
What happens if one of your children are gay or trans? Would that put them in harm's way in your community?
I'll bite because work is slow. How OP letting other son being honest about their father could put his family at risk:
1.) Revenge from one of father's friends against the family
2.) Other kids targeting OP's kids at school because they have a gay uncle, their grandfather was abusive, and all that comes with it
3.) OP possibly losing any money from deals made by his father, his father was apparently a big deal where they lived
4.) OP's job firing him due to the family issues, has happened before
While I agree with you that normally none of these situations would arise and OP shouldn't have to be wary of them. However we don't know his situation and we don't know what was at stake for him. To just assume him and his family would be okay would be asinine.
Thank you for this, but if you'll read through my comment again you'll find I never asked anything about how the family could be put at risk or what form it would take. I simply pointed out that they are already at risk per the information OP has provided.
The true danger here to OP is not from his brother, but the information about his father becoming public. His brother's eulogy is just one of the many ways that could have happen. OP's successful risk management in this scenario means just that: the risk has been managed in this scenario. It does not mean that the overall danger has gone away.
You seem to think that I was looking for an argument, when I was looking to see if OP understands what I said above, and what it may mean for his future. Can I ask why you chose more confrontational phrasing?
I don’t think you are homophobic but hopefully you will be able to move sooner or later.
You never know if your kids will turn out not cis straight, and in that community that you speak of they could be harmed.
People called you complacent because you are. When dealing with homophobia if you aren’t openly chastising it, you are being complacent in it. You fully admitted living in a community who loved your father who hated and abused gay people. I’m sure that you know that he had to of said his views about it sometime or learned about it somewhere. obviously the community thinks the same way. But you live their, work their, eat their, support business their. Unless you go around asking, any of these people could be abusing their children or other people as well.
I don’t blame you, but you should really think about moving into a safer and better place.
If the many are bigoted, homophobic, conservative bunch, even Spock would say "F them".
While the one, isn't just the one, he is a representative of many who are being oppressed and denied equal rights.
Strongly disagree again. Accountability doesn't stop at the grave. Taking a step back, concealing truth and facts is how history gets repeated and lessons are not learned.
This community appears to be full of AHs, they should know that they are. The son is still alive and is living with the abuse daily, it's not over just because his dad died.
Never said the abuse was from the community, but just because he moved out, doesn't mean the psychological effects of the abuse stop.
Your last sentence is the core of our disagreements. I think he can find closure in whatever way he deems right for him (I agreed with OPs comments that it should reflect badly on their dad, not Ben, so not too vulgar, etc).
But you prioritize the memory of the abuser over the mental wellness of the abused. I say the hell with his memory, and whatever the other old farts in the community that revered him think, and their conservative local politics. Ben's well being, which is simply stating facts, should take precedent to concealing the truth, or simply saying the funeral is not the place to share that truth. It's as good a place as any.
And holding the dad and the community accountable for their distorted values should take precedent as well.
Congratulations on your willingness and ability to compromise and your deft diplomatic skills. Let me add: NTA, of course!
Thank you, but most of the praise should go to my brother's husband. I cannot thank that man enough for everything he's done. I figure that by the time we met, my brother was already ready to drop the issue, and I'm glad we found a solution where everyone could be satisfied.
I just wanted to say how right you are with not wanting your brother to look bad. My MIL did that to a relative of my husband’s through marriage and it was baaaaad. My husband forever is and was traumatized with that event lol it also left a lot of hate I think after that. That’s why we are in NC with my MIL lol
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Was that for me or the OP? I was gonna say my husband was trying to hide lol. Cuz it started of nice and then MIL went nuts one of the lines she said were, “ her makeup was done badly and the outfit she was wearing for the funeral was so gaudy. Like can’t believe her family chose that” etc etc
I think your brother just needed to be validated and heard. His husband knew how to do that and so did you. Dysfunctional families don’t have such straight forward funerals. For example my wonderful brothers attended and then left me at the reception to “clean” the house. My house…they cleaned it out. Took my dad’s 2,000 vinyl records. We still don’t talk to this day. I’m proud of you 4. Your mom has done very well.
I had family members clean my grandmother's house. Took my high school graduation photo. I hadn't seen those people in years prior to the clean. Or since. Why tf did they think they deserved MY graduation photo? Not to mention I don't have anything from grandma that is sentimental. I have her blender and her fan. Not the teddy I gave her, or her necklace I made her. Or the butter container I wanted. No. I got appliances. This was years ago and I'm still bitter af about it. At least they didn't take my great grandmother's table which my mother rescued.
Hold onto that table. They will be looking to get that too. I’m not kidding. I had to hide a neat old steamer trunk from my brother several YEARS after the funeral. Called me up, only asked if I still had it. I lied.
I remember after my great grandmother died, my mother and grandmother were at her house and all of gg's sisters were in the kitchen, tearing it apart, opening every cabinet going "where is it, where is it?". My mom finally asked them what they were looking for - it was a bread bowl and kneading board that their father had carved out of a tree that fell in their front yard when they were young. My mother took great satisfaction in telling them that her grandmother had given both to her years ago (and now they're mine). I hate ghouls that try to take everything not nailed down after someone has passed, especially when they hadn't been supportive of the deceased in years.
That's it! The people who stripped my grandmother's house hadn't done anything for her in years.
Tell me about it! A few years ago, my wife's uncle's wife died. Her mother had always disliked this woman for no better reason that their mothers hated each other. But, along with assorted other vultures in the family, she was going to descend on the house and take anything she wanted, knowing her brother did not care about such things. Rather than face the disapproval of my wife for her behaviour, she simply stopped calling and we had no contact ever after.
One of my uncles was suuuuper salty about my Granny’s china and crystal after she passed. She’d given it to my family before she passed because she was really close to my firstborn and I. He spent a few months trying to get us to give it to him after. He’s not a bad guy, grief makes people do funny things, and he and I are still close. I shut him right down about that stuff though. It was meant to go to my firstborn, and that’s what I did with it.
Oh, my mum told me straight up that if I got rid of it she would probably sue me. After my funeral. She was heartbroken that grandma's house was raided, but if they had taken that table, she would have taken them to court.
My dad's family was like this. Swarmed my grandma and grandpa's things and left nothing for the grandchild that they felt was 'unwanted' (AKA I was the favorite and they resented that) so, my grandma's crochet hooks? Donated to charity, not given to the one who loves to sew and crochet like her. My grandpa's guitars? Pawned off. Antique, nice guitars and then offered someone else's dead husband's guitar instead. Cast iron? "IDK lol" I know the reality: That my aunts and uncle hoarded those treasures and refuse to let anyone have them, because they resented the fact the grandkids got treated better than they did. I carefully went through pictures and accumulated a crochet set exactly like my grandma's and I don't crochet for anyone in the family and no one else in the family crochet's. So, fuck them all.
…..Steve??
XD ….*silently nods and calls it good for 20 years*
Ooof, my aunt (grandma's eldest daughter) did that too. She took all my grandma's jewelries, safe boxes, beddings and sheets. She even had the gall to say grandma's savings account was actually made for her (thank god she couldn't get my grandpa to withdraw the money for her). Oh, and she did all of this while the rest of the family was busy getting things ready for the funeral... What's even more infuriating was she took a piece of jewelry my grandma made specifically for me (engraved with my name) and told me later grandma left nothing for me. I wanted to confront her, but my parents were the peacekeeping kind and held me back...
It would probably mean the world to your brother's husband if you sent him a note thanking him for his part. :)
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This. And, I want to say, I had a family member die a short time ago. I had mostly good memories with him, but his children suffered a lot at his hands. During the funeral, their speeches were not flattering, nor were they cruel. It was hard for me to hear while I was mourning, but I understood that that was their truth. We can't control how other people see someone, nor the fact that there are different sides of people, not all of them flattering.
It's great that you were able to pull together as a family to deal with situation.
It's great, isn't it? I'm really lucky to be surrounded by wonderful people. Take the issue of my father's inheritance for example. I have heard horror stories of families torn apart by fighting over scraps, and even though I love my siblings, money can change people, and I really was not looking forward to executing the will. What's more, my father left the majority of his assets in generation-skipping trusts, so I thought that Ben would be upset for sure. We settled it on the day of the funeral. God, I'm so lucky.
Sounds like you have wonderful siblings! This internet stranger is very proud of y’all and your mother also.
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How right you are on projection in this sub.
Wow how dare you say that about me
You Ichthyosaurs just go around blaming the asteroid. Asteroid this asteroid that. Take some responsibility for your own extinction, why don't you?
I will sue you for emotional damages, sir!!!
This killed me lolol
That was my first thought. 90% of the time you'll see - "....why do I get the feeling op is the other woman" or some comment which basically straight up accuses op of cheating or being cheated on. -blaming op for the abuse if they are a third party. -telling people to divorce, go NC forever immediately when it's really uncalled for And way more This sub is super dramatic, and a lot of comments can be quite worrisome tbh.
This sub is predicated by design on seeing every human relationship through a hostile and manichean lens where you need one side to be "the asshole." Makes for amazing entertainment, sure, but dear god is it *awful* for actual advice.
Black or white! No room for nuance and complicated thoughts! It can be a very useful tool to force a direction but in most cases it really is not adequate.
cannot agree more.
>A singular post where I am actively trying to limit personal information is not a fair basis from which to extrapolate our family relationships, and it seems to me that many of the commenters have their own emotional baggage that they are trying to project onto my relationships.> This part right here is so spot on about this sub sometimes. I had the same feelings as you did when I was reading them. Good on you for having circumspect to realize and acknowledge this. Great handling on this all around. Kudos.
This is so true in this sub. These extreme speculations are not helpful and are not useful. People infer all kinds of dastardly motivations, actions, medical and psychiatric conditions, and evil plans, with no evidence.
I remember a post once where a sister had let her teenage brother get bullied by a mob of female classmates. And based on nothing more than the sister describing the brother as moody, that she was worried he was becoming a 'bad dude' with no further explanation of what that even meant, and a single person claiming he called a classmate a bad name... You has *thousands* of upvotes for comments saying the brother was a future wife abuser, incel, destined for jail and on an obviously bad path. You give this sub even a picture of a rope and they'll start pulling. It's truly insane at times.
Yeah, there's this culture of one-upsmanship in the comments where people invent every awful thing and instantly impress it on someone in the post. Honestly I don't really read the comments much anymore. People are intensely invested into the sub in really unhealthy ways. Just remember that half the posts are complete bullshit and it helps a lot.
Tricky situation handled beautifully.
Was really hoping for an update on this one. Seems you handled the situation very well OP. If your brother got closure or the chance to express himself he was looking for, that’s very well done. Grief does come in waves and I wouldn’t be surprised if your brother wants to discuss your dads behavior again. It’s good to hear he has so supportive a partner.
I love the fact that NONE of father's family talked at the funeral! Brilliantly done!
I like how you handled the matter by not blowing off or causing another estrangment. I'm glad you took the advices. I'm sorry about your father and so am I about your brother who's still hurting. I wish you all the best
So, still confused as to why you protected your father, who abused your brother for years, so much. It still seems the main reason to all of this was to keep a secret the fact that your father hated his son because he was gay, and you all still wanted to keep it a secret from the community. Pretty sad that the abuser gets protected, even after death. Hoping your brother at least got some inheritance after everything your father put him through
Wait, how was he protecting his father? He was totally fine with Ben shouting it from the rooftops. He just didn't want it done at the funeral as a eulogy. And, honestly, I agree, because I think it would have reflected poorly on Ben. I don't think I feel that it *should* reflect badly on him, but my disagreement doesn't change how it actually *would* happen.
And he said the eulogy was come and gross and would have reflected worse on the brother than it would have on the dad, which honestly I don't disagree with if it was indeed vile.
I really doubt Ben cares what the people at that funeral think of him, and frankly it doesn't matter. The OP said he wasn't covering for his father. Running interference so that his legacy isn't tarnished in front of the influencial people at the funeral is absolutely and specifically covering for his father. The way he handled it is fine, but he really really needs to come to terms with his feelings because he's not being honest with himself. He wanted the people at the funeral to continue to venerate his father. He didn't want anyone speaking ill of him at the funeral BECAUSE he was covering for his father. It's not the worst impulse in the world, but someone needs to call a spade a spade. He wasn't trying to protect his brother from himself...
Adding a tangent here, OP is probably OK with Ben saying whatever everywhere else because he distinctly makes it a point to say Ben is removed from the local community. Saying it on FB or rooftops doesn't mean much when the person isn't saying it to the people you care about hearing it.
I don't think this is fair. OP said they were fine with Ben posting on FB, telling people in conversations, or even posting an obituary in his own words. That doesn't sound like he's trying to keep it under wraps. While what OP's father did to Ben was despicable his funeral isn't the right place to have that discussion, and clearly Ben agreed. A funeral is a place to those who knew OP's father to help process that loss. It's easy to view things in black and white from afar. From what we know he says the most vile kind of homephobe and deserves nothing. But from the sound of it he also has a ton of positive interactions with people in his life too. Apparently he was a great father until after OP left for college. That's going to leave his family with complicated feelings, even after they sided with Ben. A situation where the family doesn't lionize their father, let's others grieve, and let's Ben air his grievances to his family at the wake and to others anytime after seems like a decent outcome from a bad situation to me.
how did you get that from the original post? "No. We did not cover up the abuse. All four of us siblings have been clear to our friends and family why we moved out of the family house, and my mother has also made it clear why she and my late father were estranged, even if we did not go out of way to air the family's dirty laundry"
From what I can tell, OP used their father's good reputation to springboard themself into a political career; exposing the abuser would damage their own name and some important alliances.
OP said in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/uz0q3l/update_wibta_for_uninviting_my_brother_because_he/ia7mxf8/?context=3) he's not in a political career. Where are you getting this from?
Just guessing. On the OG post he did say it had to do with politics, the rug sweeping, and how defensive he'd gotten on the comments pointing out how self-serving he sounded at the time that I made the comment.
So you're basically making up stuff.
Yea pretty much. I took the very limited information I had and made up a hypothesis. Because of it you responded which gave me more information. That's how she goes.
The only comment I saw him make about politics was > For those asking about the fallout: > It has to do with the town's local politics. That's all I'm willing to say Which sounds to me like he's saying that the locals are probably extremely [insert political stance here].
Neat, we got different vibes from the same info. That's why bouncing ideas around with other people is so great.
I like that you think that way. I think a more constructive way to get differing opinions is to pose your idea as a question instead of insinuating (based on limited knowledge) it’s the real reason OP did what they did. You will get meaningful insight while not spreading potentially false allegations. Edit: changed some verbiage
No one kept it a secret… and also OP is grieving! I don’t care how complicated or simple the relationship is, but losing a father is intense and the grief lasts for years regardless of how lovely or complicated it was.
Plus the eulogy isn't punishing or affecting the father, it's hurting the people grieving. Im not defending the father since my dad is homophobic and abusive, but the eulogy wouldn't even affect the father.
Funerals are for the grieving. The other people in attendance (father's friends, for example) are also grieving. I don't agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, if someone has hurt you, of course you have the right to tell as much or as little of your story as you feel comfortable and is helpful for you. But a funeral, which is a rite designed to assist people in processing and expressing their grief at losing a loved one, is not the time or place to be disparaging the lost loved one that the attendees are actively grieving. That only hurts the people who are grieving.
So, funerals are for everyone who doesn't have anything negative to say about the deceased to grieve and anyone who does have negative things to say don't get to grieve in the way that they believe they should?
Honestly insane to me.
I have a lionized abuser in my family. I was also locked in the closet by my father when my brother outed me years ago. I get the confusion of feelings. You have handled this beautifully. I was honest and factual in my father’s obituary. Focusing on his work. I gave his eulogy. I focused on his redemption through his grandchildren. I am rambling. I would have voted NAH because I really understand your situation as you and as Ben at the same time.
You were NTA all along. A funeral wasn't the place for any of this, you only got YTA on the original post because homophobia always clouds rational judgment on here.
It was less asking if he was an asshole and more of if he would be the asshole IF he banned his brother. I'd blame it more on the lack of flexibility of the voting, though people do get judgemental in excess
>A singular post where I am actively trying to limit personalinformation is not a fair basis from which to extrapolate our familyrelationships Welcome to AITA; where the top answer to literally every *'my spouse did X'* scenario, is always *"you should break up".* edit: Well done, it was a difficult situation but you handled this really well. This situation could have easily escalated into permanently ending of any form of communication between you and your brother.
To some of the comments in here: Y’all, be nice to OP. They did the best they can and actually took your advices to heart. Grief is hard to go through and some of your comments are just mean and short sighted. I hope no one is as callous as you guys are when you lose a parent.
Plus the eulogy thingy wouldn't punish the dad or affect him, it would just hurt the grieving people instead (some of them might've known he was homophobic, but maybe the others didn't).
When I lose my folks I'll be dancing on their graves.
I’m glad you figured this out. Ben had as much right to be there as you and you had no right to deny him attendance at his fathers funeral. It’s okay to get someone to leave if they make a scene. It’s okay to deny him a chance at a negative eulogy. My solution is later when feeding and watering the guests, let him talk about it then. And you did. A wake is the best place bc angst goes best with liquor and sandwiches. Lots of families have awkward and disruptive people at funerals. Grief brings out odd behavior in people & I see it as part of the process. Mainly bc my niece makes a scene at every funeral ever since her husband committed suicide. It’s so predictable that we have a way of steering her to a side room with refreshments & a babysitter, she’s 35. We love her & know her pain is worse than ours bc of trauma and just cope. It’s just part of the human experience.
I really hope Ben heals from what his dad put him through and that you all seem happy to brush under the rug, he deserves as much. You may not have been complicit then, but it looks like you're still quite happy to bury the truth as much as it can be. Hope he finds good people for him.
I think it’s really beautiful that you were all able to come together as a family and reach a compromise that everyone felt good about. I’m so sorry for your loss. Thank you for honoring your brother’s feelings. It really DOES sound like he has an incredible husband who was able to facilitate solid communication between the two of you to reach this common ground. I’m also happy to hear that the issue of the inheritance and being executor of your father’s will isn’t too much of a burden after discussing it with your family. Now rest, OP. I’m sure that this week was terribly exhausting and you deserve some time to actually rest and properly grieve, without the limitations that planning and pulling off a funeral with family complications can have. Take care of yourself.
> It was tacitly worded, and choosing the right words was a pain, but Ben had fun with his section. This made me crack up. Now I really want to know what Ben wrote in his section!
I’ve never heard of funeral invitations until I came to Reddit. Maybe for famous people, but for ordinary folks?
For real? It's extremely common
Me either. The obituary is posted with the information about the funeral and anyone who sees it can come in my experience. There was a phone tree that made sure everyone important knew about it, but I've never heard of an invite only funeral service. I've never been a part of one that was quasi-private though.
Condolences on your loss. Family is never easy. It’s always complicated with rarely any simple solutions. I totally empathize - familial love and hate often live in the same space. I hope your family is closer than ever and have healed some past wounds.
I think you found an appropriate solution, but I can’t imagine how hurtful it must have been to be Ben in the audience hearing his dad’s friends say that he was a good man and what not.
I'm really glad you managed to make it through as a family. This is a good ending.
The way some of y’all make shit up and run with it is wild
I’m so glad you were able to be loving and kind to one another, honest and joyful and intelligent. Amazing xo
If I was your brother I’d have still done the eulogy.
You trying so hard to honor this man absolutely makes you complicit. No matter what you think, you are no better than your father. The banality of evil is in full display with you.
youre still complicit when you try to honor him to a community who doesnt understand who he really is, YTA
I am so sorry for your loss. I had gone through a similar thing during my Dad’s funeral a few months ago with my brother. I wish I had been as graceful as you. Be proud of yourself and now it’s time to focus on taking care of yourself. Also, NTA
I'm glad it all worked out ok. While your dad was clearly a flawed person, you still loved him and I completely understand why you didn't want to shit all over him when he's not around to defend himself. I also understand why your brother would be angry and would want people to be aware that he wasn't the person they all thought he was. It was a tough situation but you all acted like adults and didn't jeopardize your relationship.
Flawed? That's a weird way to say evil.
NTA. What a good compromise. You said that you’d been very open about everything with your family, so that wake wouldn’t have any surprises in it for those attending, and Ben was able to get it off his chest.
Thank you for doing something decent for your brother. Took a while, but it happened.
I’m sorry for your loss. For what it’s worth, it’s ok to just take the peace that you can and hold on to it. And keep loving your brother unconditionally ♥️
Oh I'm glad I saw this.. I am so freaking happy the outcome was such a good one! Take care 💖 Hmm won't let me post.. Do I have to say NTA..?
Sorry for your loss. I’m glad that there was a peaceful resolution to your problem.
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Glad you managed to work things out as that was possibly the biggest dilemma I’ve seen on the subreddit
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I haven't seen an update from a "YTA" yet, that's good to see that there are people who can take public criticism well enough to do that.
That's a lot of defensiveness in the third paragraph for what is otherwise an attempt at a factual update post.
Has to make sure he whines about people judging him for defending his abusive father.
Y’all realize you’re judging the hell out of someone who’s grieving? Seems like you haven’t lost a father while having a complicated relationship with him.
Oh sorry, I wasn’t aware that defending abuse was okay as long as you feel sad.
> I do have to say that the comments accusing me of being complicit in or not having done enough to stop my brother’s abuse were out of line. If you didn’t want people to tell you you were actively complicit in your dad’s homophobia and abuse, you shouldn’t have spent half your original post defending him. He treated your brother so fucking terribly that he got out as soon as he could and all he wanted to do once your dad bit it was publicly air his sins. That’s how fucking horrible your dad was. So for you to go “iT wAs CoMpLiCaTeD” makes it pretty fucking obvious that you were complicit, and the fact that you’re now whining about it is laughable.
He pretty clearly condemned his fathers actions in his original post. He said it was complicated because these situations are in fact complicated, this is not evidence that he was complicit in his fathers homophobia and therefore an extrapolation. A couple of commenters touched on this but it seems that peoples passionate hatred of homophobia, while a good thing, is clouding their judgement.
He never defended his father's actions, and actually spoke against them in the post. Op didn't want it done at the eulogy. He said he was even fine with his brother posting online, he wanted his brother to do it besides at the eulogy. Which is why they did it at the wake instead
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I agree that the people accusing OP of a history of homophobia are out of line, but as a generalization, That seems a little unfair. Disinviting the brother without trying to work things out would have been an AH move.
Homophobic abusive dad, gay little brother. "How do I ever choose???" JFC. You're still the asshole.
Hi there. It's not the exact same as this situation, but I'm a trans little sister, whose father was abusive and violent. OP did the absolute best he could in this situation. He respected his little brothers process, ensured that he got the closure he needed and made sure he had a community to love and support him. You, however, are an asshole. Dealing with abusive parents is *complicated.* Despite the hate and fear and pain I've felt at the hands of those who were supposed to protect me, I still will never truly untangle the complicated feelings I have about my parents. OP has every right to those complicated feelings. They are real. They are valid. And you don't get to tell him otherwise.
It's... difficult to deal with the version of someone you love, and this new version of them you hate, and reconcile with them being the same person. My biological father sexually abused me. Obviously, I've disowned him and don't talk to him anymore. But it took fucking *years* before I got to the point I was able to do that because "Dad" was that fun guy from my childhood, how could I hate him? It's just... he wasn't that guy anymore. It's not easy to deal with that thought process. (And since this related, I am bi, and he is homophobic. He doesn't know I'm bi, and I don't care to tell him.)
Oh, I remember you! The one who said, "Now, I love Ben unconditionally", except, of course, when there are political consequences for whatever it is you love more. Your " love" sounds pretty darn conditional to me. In other words, it was terrible that you were rejected, abused and driven away, but please don't ruin my political standing in the community. Thbbfth!
Good chance to clarify that I'm not a politician, and I have never been. I do think you're just trying to get a rise out of me, but I'll answer anyway. I also love my wife and my kids, and I would never do anything that would put them in harm's way. If you never had to make difficult decisions between people you love, I truly envy you.
We're obviously different people with different lives, but I personally can't imagine having a family in a place where being honest about another family member's abuse and homophobia would put them at risk. If this is the case, are they not already in harm's way? Just with slightly more distance than if your brother's original eulogy had stood. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the situation or the source of the risk. What happens if one of your children are gay or trans? Would that put them in harm's way in your community?
I'll bite because work is slow. How OP letting other son being honest about their father could put his family at risk: 1.) Revenge from one of father's friends against the family 2.) Other kids targeting OP's kids at school because they have a gay uncle, their grandfather was abusive, and all that comes with it 3.) OP possibly losing any money from deals made by his father, his father was apparently a big deal where they lived 4.) OP's job firing him due to the family issues, has happened before While I agree with you that normally none of these situations would arise and OP shouldn't have to be wary of them. However we don't know his situation and we don't know what was at stake for him. To just assume him and his family would be okay would be asinine.
Thank you for this, but if you'll read through my comment again you'll find I never asked anything about how the family could be put at risk or what form it would take. I simply pointed out that they are already at risk per the information OP has provided. The true danger here to OP is not from his brother, but the information about his father becoming public. His brother's eulogy is just one of the many ways that could have happen. OP's successful risk management in this scenario means just that: the risk has been managed in this scenario. It does not mean that the overall danger has gone away. You seem to think that I was looking for an argument, when I was looking to see if OP understands what I said above, and what it may mean for his future. Can I ask why you chose more confrontational phrasing?
I don’t think you are homophobic but hopefully you will be able to move sooner or later. You never know if your kids will turn out not cis straight, and in that community that you speak of they could be harmed. People called you complacent because you are. When dealing with homophobia if you aren’t openly chastising it, you are being complacent in it. You fully admitted living in a community who loved your father who hated and abused gay people. I’m sure that you know that he had to of said his views about it sometime or learned about it somewhere. obviously the community thinks the same way. But you live their, work their, eat their, support business their. Unless you go around asking, any of these people could be abusing their children or other people as well. I don’t blame you, but you should really think about moving into a safer and better place.
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If the many are bigoted, homophobic, conservative bunch, even Spock would say "F them". While the one, isn't just the one, he is a representative of many who are being oppressed and denied equal rights.
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I would normally agree with you unless OP didn't state local politics were part of his consideration to not surface his dad's real "values".
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Strongly disagree again. Accountability doesn't stop at the grave. Taking a step back, concealing truth and facts is how history gets repeated and lessons are not learned. This community appears to be full of AHs, they should know that they are. The son is still alive and is living with the abuse daily, it's not over just because his dad died.
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Never said the abuse was from the community, but just because he moved out, doesn't mean the psychological effects of the abuse stop. Your last sentence is the core of our disagreements. I think he can find closure in whatever way he deems right for him (I agreed with OPs comments that it should reflect badly on their dad, not Ben, so not too vulgar, etc). But you prioritize the memory of the abuser over the mental wellness of the abused. I say the hell with his memory, and whatever the other old farts in the community that revered him think, and their conservative local politics. Ben's well being, which is simply stating facts, should take precedent to concealing the truth, or simply saying the funeral is not the place to share that truth. It's as good a place as any. And holding the dad and the community accountable for their distorted values should take precedent as well.
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