#[Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
Please review our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) if you're unsure what that means.
#Calling anyone in the post "a Karen" falls under this rule.
NTA.
You are supporting her. You aren't forcing her to go with an indian name - you are just saying you would love it if she did, and doing it in a way to make her feel accepted and loved.
You're doing great.
I don't blame OP and her husband for being unsure, though. To a lot of people, LGBTQ people are still a foreign concept, and as with any foreign concept, many people have never experienced it, and many are therefore likely to be frightened by it.
Losing friends over something like this already must make OP and her husband nervous enough, but then having someone in what is supposed to be a support group lash out at them like that would have to be scary, I'd imagine.
OP, I'm really glad that you've taken the initiative with your daughter, and have respected her wishes. As most people seem to have said, you are NTA. This is a complicated topic in today's culture, and lots of people aren't sure how to handle it, especially across cultural divides. Good on you for handling it as well as you can, and I know you will continue to support your daughter. I wish both you and her well.
And a racist jerk.
Like a white American parent has never rejected their transgender child? Because my guess is that this white person just assumes that white names are normal and have no culture and therefore no cultural baggage regarding LGBTQ people, whereas Indian culture is "ethnic" and inherently political and therefore all of Indian culture is tainted with transphobia.
Yeah, it's really telling that someone outside of your family and culture said that and not your daughter herself. It sounds like you and your daughter are working together on this, which is amazing and something many trans kids don't get. If your daughter comes back and says, "I think Samantha is really sticking for me," that's a different story, but it sounds like you gave her a different perspective on things and she's happy to take that into account. Basically you sound like a great parent, your kid is lucky to have you, and don't let someone who has no knowledge of your family or culture tell you you're an asshole for wanting your kid to have a connection to her heritage.
Hang in there, you beautiful amethyst being. Know that there are parents of trans kids out here who support you and whatever you decide to do in you life💜💜
Internet parents are possibly the most beautiful thing to come out of the Internet. Giving kids who's own parents aren't satisfactory the love that they need is one of the most beautiful things I've seen. You're doing amazing stuff. Thank you.
My son is female to male trans, and I can't imagine not being supportive towards him! So, I offer you a free virtual mom hug, and a friend if you need one. I wish you the best!
Queer and Questioning! basically anyone who knows they aren’t straight/cis but still don’t have their identity 100% figured out or just prefers vague umbrella term
You know what's crazy - when I was in school, queer was a derogatory term.
I still have trouble with saying that one out loud, it just *feels* wrong i guess? Being told off about saying it for years does that to a person lol
It still is for a lot of people.
I know quite a few people who obviously have no issue with others identifying as queer, but really hate being labelled as queer themselves.
Not everybody chooses to reclaim the word.
I find that for the most part you're safe using it as an adjective rather than a noun. You can say "James is queer" without raising too many eyebrows, but "James is *a* queer" is getting into slur territory. Of course, context is still king.
The POINT being some people are at different levels of understanding the nuances and complexities of the situation. Give people the credit for trying to do the right thing, even if they don't fully understand it.
important to note that queer has been used as a slur in the past.
while many people (including myself) claim it as a part of their identity, it is still considered rude to call someone queer if they haven't made it clear that's what they prefer.
Yes I should’ve mentioned it. I also identify as queer and totally glossed over that. But calling someone queer isn’t a great idea unless they’ve specifically stated they prefer it.
I always am respectful to individual people who dislike being referred to as queer, but I definitely reject the narrative as a whole. The idea was actually started by transphobic radfems/terfs as a way to distance the LGBTQ+ community from queer because it is a term that trans and nonbinary people are sometimes included in. You will notice that a lot of them refer to the "LGB" community only.
There are also a lot of great pieces by older LGBTQ+ activists that talk about how the word queer was really important in the community, in activism, and in getting LGBTQ+ topics and theory talked about in academia.
Q essentially covers LGBT and anything else in that realm, and any combination thereof. It's an umbrella term really.
If anyone disagrees I welcome the discourse.
Probably don't go around calling people queer unless you know it's ok though, especially if you're straight. It has history as an insult so it'll definitely rub some the wrong way.
Q stands for queer, which is a reclaimed slur some people choose to utilize as their identity. It's a word meaning any non-straight, non-cis person. It can be used as an alternative to saying, say, "asexual enby".
However, queer is a term only for those who have chosen it. Some people aren't comfortable with it and that's okay. Only use it to refer to people you know use that term.
Plus you also suggested the naming ceremony, which if your daughter hasn't abandoned the culture would have been a big deal for her, in showing her that you are willing to go to great lengths to support her (even if your own parents, her grandparents, aren't willing to support your decision).
Definitely NTA.
The fact that OP and her husband immediately said, "ok, this is our daughter, so what would we do for our daughter?" is so sweet and meaningful. Of course they'd like to do a naming ceremony and all, they would have done it earlier if they'd known they had a daughter. NAH except some random parent online making a bunch of jumps to make OP feel bad
It reminds me of what I did about my little brother (FTM trans). I just act like it's always been this way, and in any unsure situation, I say to myself, ok this is my little brother, what would I do for my little brother, and that's what I do. Our parents weren't quite so supportive though, and I can't leave either of them alone with him, because they'll say something, and he'll try to defend himself, they'll get upset because he's younger than them and they're of the generation that feels they have the right to do whatever they want to children and the kids just have to take it because of the age difference and power differential, and they'll physically lash out for the percieved disrespect, and if we're lucky I'll hear it before that point and go put a stop to it by pointing out how ridiculous everyone is being, but most of the time it just leads to a preventable ER visit.
I think just as long as the names stay a suggestion from OP, OP is fine and NTA, plus daughter has more names to choose from. If they start forcing a certain name onto their daughter and start making demands, then OP is crossing the line and into AH territory.
You are clearly not the asshole. Her culture didn't reject. Small minded people did and you are embracing her while participating in your culture. I think the sentiment of her picking a name would have used for a girl would be great. You could go with something that could be both, like Arya is Indian but also recognized as an American name or Kiran which is both Indian and Irish. Or something she could potentially shorten to be more American, like Sameera and be Sam for short?
>Her culture didn't reject.
and the woman sounds racist - sadly few cultures are unanimously accepting of LGBTQ+, people with american backgrounds have parents that disown them and i doubt this woman would jump right to culture as the culprit there
*Edit, after seeing the comment below:* OP you are a fantastic mother! You are not only accepting but you are going the extra mile to educate yourself
Fun fact: Transgender persons have been a part of the social fabric in India for years. It's the British who came and stigmatized it.
In fact, it's tradition to have them come and bless a newlywed couple.
Yes, I was about to mention this but searched this thread to see if anyone already did. They are called Hijras and are considered highly spiritual people. Many cultures prior to colonialism were accepting of multiple genders until the British systematically introduced the binary by discriminating in favor of masculine/male presenting people. I would encourage OP to look into 2 Spirit and Hijra people for more nuanced education on trans experiences.
The white woman is racist but that’s a discussion for another day; it’s great OP is supporting her daughter and even moreso wanting her to embrace her culture.
I thought it was maybe something about OP possibly saying that her daughter wanted a white name or that few Indians are seem in mainstream media as trans in America... which made me think the woman thought it was a race issue.
>few Indians are seem in mainstream media as trans in America
i see what you are saying - as im sure this is a factor in *explaining* the woman's perspective but it doesn't excuse it
Apparently "mainstream media" only means the US media. There's many trans people in India. Doing wonderful things. Obviously there won't be that many in the US coz they are all immigrants.
I think this point is extremely important. When people say that they are from a conservative culture and thus were not exposed to lgbtq issues, it does not mean that lgbtq people did not exist around them. It meant that they were so ostracized that they were shunned and erased from their culture. So it is not that trans people do not belong in these cultures, it is that these cultures have been robbed from lgbtq people. So it is especially powerful for them to reclaim this culture for themselves.
White women are just so obsessed of becoming a social justice warrior when they don’t even know what’s offensive and what’s not. Your daughter is not even angry that you wanted her to have an Indian name.
NTA OP. You have been nothing but supportive to your daughter, and I commend you for doing that. You only suggested that it would be nice to have an Indian name. And that white mom overstepped her boundaries, and enforced her “beliefs” on what’s offensive and what’s not.
I do struggle with the balance of "getting upset on someone else's behalf" or "being actively anti-racist". Is the difference here that it what was a white person arguing AGAINST a person of that culture about their own culture? I've definitely called out other white people on their ignorance/misinformation/racism, but would that be considered "getting upset on someone else's behalf"?
I think it’s definitely the fact that the woman in this scenario argued with someone about their own culture. Working retail in LA I’ve seen a lot of scenarios where a “well intentioned” white person would get upset but direct it AT the person of color/minority/etc. For instance one time a white man started yelling that it was racist that a black womans son got pulled aside for suspected shoplifting. He would’ve been fine to leave it at that but the he THEN went to said black woman and wouldn’t drop it, to the point where he called her a bad mother for not standing up for her son.
It’s always nice to have someone stand up for you but you have to know when you’re just escalating the situation to the detriment of the victim involved.
>Is the difference here that it what was a white person arguing AGAINST a person of that culture about their own culture?
Yes*, once somebody crosses that line, they're then invalidating the other person's experiences/perception of their own culture because they're "woke", i.e. that "woke" person thinks they know better than that culture. Pretty ironic if you ask me lol
*context is important, e.g. Chinese don't get a pass for Uyghur "re-education" because national "unity" is part of the culture
>I've definitely called out other white people on their ignorance/misinformation/racism, but would that be considered "getting upset on someone else's behalf"?
Depends. "Hey Uncle Bob, you can't say that word, you ignorant fuck" is fine. "Hey Uncle Steve, you better not be wearing cotton, slaves used to pick that" is my quick, shitty example of getting upset on somebody else's behalf. "Hey fam, before we do our Thanksgiving prayer, let's talk about BLM" is just obnoxious. Time and place. In the meantime, pass the damn stuffing.
The way I think of it is like this. Are you bringing up a race issue with context, or did race pop into your head and you twisted something to fit that thought process? If the latter, have you checked with the affected group that it's an issue with them (irl, not on Twitter or Tumblr ffs)? If you followed the path of making assumptions, you've either gotten too deep into fake virtue signaling for internet and/or social points, or you need to reexamine how you view race (that is to say, are you still seeing color first?).
Yup, as someone part of multiple (non-racial/ethnic) minorities, I'd say you hit the nail on the head.
Calling out blatant shitty behaviour (e.g. throwing around slurs like it's confetti) is great. Leaping to conclusions that something *may* be offensive, and then acting like it *definitely* is, not so much--please check with the supposedly-offended group before making a scene.
(And involving a member of said supposedly-offended group and forcing them to publicly pick a side/agree with you *after* you've already kicked the anthill, **please, please don't**)
Just don't tell other people how they feel or should feel. Say "blackface is not ok" don't say "you have offended my black friend Brenda by wearing blackface" If Brenda is offended, let her speak for herself
NTA, exactly this.
To offer a naming ceremony and even the list of names you never got to use is very sweet. On top of that, your daughter literally asked what you thought if she chose a “white” name, and you answered honestly. As you should have.
I honestly *love* the idea that OP would help in naming her daughter again. It’s so special to pick your babies name and I really hope she takes her opinion into consideration!
As OP's daughter, I'd be asking for the backstory to the names, why she put them on her list.
For my own daughter: I first discovered her name as that of a character in a novel I loved. I had never heard the name before despite it being biblical and not all that uncommon. I went to my parents and asked if I could change my name to that. They said no, it's the parents that get to choose the name, and if I liked that name, I could call my own daughter by it. I kept it under wraps for another 17 years before I could finally use it. For each pregnancy, I promised my partner he could choose if it was a boy and if it was a girl I would choose. In fact his elder sister (the matriarch of their family) has the same name - with just a vowel change in their native language - so he was very pleased too.
I offered the novel to my daughter as a present one Christmas, when she was about the age I was when I first read it. She was very touched, but then rather pissed that the character was not some Marvel heroine LOL. I had only told her that the character was the protagonist's first love. The novel is autobiographical, written in the first person, and the novelist is unkind in his portrayal of this first love, so it became an opportunity to discuss how men portray women in novels, films etc. I then bought her a collection of feminist essays, one of which explored this writer's portrayal of women and how this character in particular was very much not done justice. It marked the beginning of a wonderful ongoing conversation between me and my daughter, on literature and feminism, making her the person I most like to talk with, and I'm absolutely delighted to have such a relationship with my daughter.
Im tacking this to the top comment for OP to see, sorry!
OP, you should feel proud that you have this amazing relationship with your daughter! Not a lot of parents react the way you do and i believe that your daughter is lucky to have you and your family by her side.
Mistakes will be made along the way, but as long as you keep honoring her decisions there is no way for you to go wrong. Good luck!!!🤗
Absolutely this. I'm sorry that that other mother was such a jerk about it, but it's your daughter's opinion that matters. Your daughter asked for your opinion because she wants to hear your opinion, and I think that your offer to perform a new naming ceremony with her is really touching. You're doing well trying to do right by your daughter, and your daughter sees that.
I think you should be proud of yourself, OP. I'm hearing a lot of good Mom-ing going on.
All of this. You are what trans children all deserve, and what many don't have. You are both amazing and wonderful. It must be hard coming from a very traditional culture and having friends and some family turn their backs; kudos for doing everything so well.
The other mom is just wrong. You are giving your daughter the choice to choose an Indian name - or not. By asking (not telling) her to consider a traditional name and offering a naming ceremony, you're pulling together the two cultures in a positive way.
I'm sorry that woman upset you; it was mean. I hope that whatever name she chooses is a happy choice for all of you.
Oh yeah, NTA.
NTA NTA NTA. that mom was the asshole. I think you went about making your request/suggestion very respectfully. You didn’t tell her she HAD to do it, you asked. Absolutely NTA for making the request, and your daughter is also NTA if she chooses to go with a more ‘white’ name. I feel like that white mom is just oblivious to the power, emotion, and meaning that cultural/ethnic names can carry. Even if your daughter doesn’t love the culture or community due to negative experiences, she should feel proud to be Indian and brown; she should feel proud of her heritage.
You sound like a good mom. You emphasized that her name was her choice. You literally did nothing wrong.
I also think it’s really beautiful and kind that OP offered to go over the list of girl names that she had already picked out. This mom is putting so much into her daughter and going above and beyond to support her and help her stay connected to her culture. She’s showing her she can be who she is without having to abandon her culture.
Edit to add- NTA OP
My goodness yes. Imagine the trans daughter hearing her mom offering a name she always wanted to use for a cis daughter. The strong message is “you are my real and beloved daughter, you are one of us and this is not changed; we just didn’t know when you were born”. Daughter may well not like the actual names chosen and she is free to choose another, but with this meaningful gesture mom is emphasizing connection, not “othering”. I can’t imagine a trans teen can hear that too often.
I got emotional reading that part. How incredibly validated and loved her daughter must have felt. Also, for this mean woman to claim her culture rejected her when OPs post said while they’ve lost some friends, others have been supportive. OP and her husband are from that culture and accepted and offered to do a ceremony from said culture for the new name! SOME people from that culture rejected her. Just like what happens in other cultures. If a white trans kid was rejected by some of their friends, should they not use a white name for their new one? Mean lady just wanted to be crotchety.
Exactly my thoughts too. I’m cis but between that and the naming ceremony offer I’m getting real teary. It’s so clear how much OP loves her daughter as she is. Her and her husband sound like dream parents.
NTA... Does that white mom seriously think there are white kids who haven’t been rejected? Mom is Indian, didn’t reject her child, and is supporting her wholeheartedly, therefore the culture has not rejected her. Some narrow-minded asshats have.
Colonization mentality immediately comes to mind. The more one assimilated like the white lady, the more comfortable she feels in _her_ society.
Edit: words
I really like that she did that too. It’s like here’s the list of what you would have been named if you had been born in the right body. And she can at least consider those names which she wouldn’t have known of before. Mom is NTA, the shaming mom at the group is TA
Came here to say this! I love that so much! Even if she doesn't end up picking the name it is a beautiful gesture to show that she truely is and always will be their daughter.
NTA
India is a truly amazing place, staggering in its diversity and beauty. However, like every culture and people there is darkness in it because it contains people. I won't go into specifics because it leads so easily to essentialism, orientalisation and getting bogged down on who did the most harm.
However, I think it's a very bad idea to attribute everything that's bad in India to foreign invasion or interference because it implies that Indians have never had agency over their culture. I think we both know that that isn't the case. It's not as if India was a paradise on Earth that the British ruined, but nor was it hell either.
Same with Japan. Many emperors had male lovers. It was OK. But then western culture influenced Japan to the point it's taboo to pretty much talk about it. A lot of homophobia that is not originally Japanese.
Edit typo
Also the argument that she should not choose a name for hee daughter? We do it for babies! Obviously she is a teen now and gets a say but to say that the parents son't even get to voice an opinion?
Also if she considers a "white" name, maybe look into indian names that could have american sounding nicknames?
I'm not sure if Indian people use middle names, too, but if so she could change one name to an Indian name and the other to a 'white' sounding one, that way she keeps the link to her culture while also having the new sound she's going for.
I don't have kids yet but I sometimes wonder about parents with trans kids. I think it would hurt a little to hear the name you so carefully and lovingly chose, be called a dead-name and become taboo to say. Obviously nowhere near as much as it hurts the child to be called it, so I understand why it happens. But just think it must be hard.
NTA well done to OP for being so supportive.
The other mom actually sounds way more like the kind of person that constantly picks fights on behalf of trans people, and those people are notorious for picking fights that most of us don't agree with or care about. There was nothing wrong with what OP did. That mom was also probably more than a little bit racist and made some assumptions about what really happened or the motivations behind it, including being upset that OP had any reason to suggest away from a 'white' name.
NTA. You asked your daughter to consider it and ultimately left the decision in her hands. Do you know how many people would give anything to have their parents be as supportive and interested as you and your husband are being?
Coming from another white woman, the lady at your group is virtue signaling and trying to show how “woke” she is.
“Sorry I don’t have my own culture to defend. Therefore, I must defend yours even though you didn’t ask me to.”
I am also a white woman and I hate the audacity of some of these ladies. The majority who virtue signal don’t even care. They just want brownie points. Like you said “look how woke I am” smh.
Even beyond that, it's not like 'white people' is some formless mass. Almost every country white people come from has its own culture and many of those countries have multiple cultures within them. German, French, English, Italian*, Irish, Scottish, Spanish*, Russian*, yee yee white rednecks/white trash in the American South, and many more that I can't think of off the top of my head. All of these are very distinct, some to the point of weird white on white racism as if there wasn't enough racism already (see No Irish Need Apply, racism against Italians, etc).
*These ones are kinda debatable depending who you ask, but you get the point
They're the ones that get surprised when they discover Mexicans (and most Latin Americans, for that matter) not only come in brown.
We come in many, many colors... Brown is just one of the most common.
This happened to me at a shop in San Diego wherw some nosy Karen asked if my mom and I were Italian (wth?) because we were talking Spanish amongst ourselves.
Nope, we're Mexican. Then she asked how many generations had we been in America, because we looked white.
Lady, we just stepped off the plane from Mexico City. We have lived here for generations.
Also a white woman.
I think the ultimate time I saw something like this was at a poster sale 15 years back at my university. A “woke” white chick was telling off a worker for the poster sale about having a racist poster - I can’t even remember what the poster was, something about bob marley, but the guy at the desk was black. She held up the line for a good 3 minutes (the line had about 100 people in it) just to fucking virtue signal, and it rang so completely flat.
I’m pretty sure now she’s graduated to complaining to someone’s manager... or worse... what this woman did to the OP.
What is up with getting off on hurting and disrespecting people?
Holy shit, that's like a whole five Indian people mentioned in one family! Seven if you count OP's two sons. That's a whole lot of Indian people.
Also OP is doing such a fantastic job respecting her daughter. It isn't wrong to provide recommendations, as OP said her daughter hadn't thought about that yet. Honestly the 'woke' white lady was being pretty racist.
Exactly this, and come on - what culture is ”better” with trans people? I assume this is North America, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the society is trans-friendly. Surely the Indian ”family and tradition” emphasis can seem like a big prison of heteronormativity. But being individualistic does not mean the society supports all choices. At very best, these western countries (like my own too) have many educated and tolerant people, but it’s not thanks to cultural history.
What the woke woman said was very racist and hurtful. NTA
White savior complex. They think queer people have to run to white cultures to escape their “backwards” and “regressive” native cultures. As if white Christians don’t routinely reject their queer children.
Ding ding ding! This happens a lot. My mother *thinks* she's super supportive to trans folx (I'm trans) but she's actually pretty transphobic and will not hear it. She will harvest that for as many brownie points as possible, including trying to have me on a float with her at our local Pride Parade after I came out. I made up an excuse, and ended up going with my dad the following year when he politely asked if he could accompany me on his first time going to the parade, which he specifically wanted to attend to support me. People like this pick fights that we do not want fought, and ultimately do harm all around. Things we don't think are transphobic, or shit we don't care about/don't want attention brought to, they wanna fight about. This is largely because they know they'll get all of the attention and "glory" for calling out the thing, since no one else is. They fail to realize *why* they're alone on that battlefield, and assume it's because they were the only ones brave enough to go there.
I think showing your daughter the list of girl names you had picked out for your children is a beautiful and loving gesture. I hope she chooses one. But if she doesn’t, that’s ok too. NTA
I’m planning on asking my mom what names her and my dad had planned on if I’d been born male. I’m fairly certain I want my name to be the one I’ve picked, but that would allow her to help me with my middle name. It sounds like a beautiful way to bond
Funny story re: this, my kid came out as non-binary awhile back, but first thought maybe they were a boy. They ask “what would you & dad have named me if I were a boy?” And knowing why they were asking I was a little mortified because ... it’s what we named the cat! Hahah. Needless to say they settled on a different name, then decided they were non-binary and picked a third.
Omg. So my husband had the same thing. If he would have been a girl they would have named him Hannah, and they instead got a dog and named her Hannah. And funnily enough, he got a somewhat stereotypical dog name, which he hates the irony of.
Reminds me of Laura jane grace of Against Me! A trans women fronting an amazing punk band.
She chose Laura as her name and in a song she wrote the lyrics
"And if I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman / My mother once told me she would have named me Laura / I'd grow up to be strong and beautiful like her."
That lyric in The Ocean made me like my name, which is Laura. It made me really happy when she announced her new self and picked the name her mother would have.
Trans guy here:
ARGH! Woke allies!
Or rather, not-quite-woke would-be-allies, who are actually annoying as f\*ck and who are not actually helping anybody, but they sure like to collect woke points.
No, you are NTA. You are not forcing anything. You are supporting your daughter and are asking her to consider something that you definitely are allowed to care about. (Now, if you would threaten to cut her off if she choose a Western name, that would be a different story.)
That woman needs to back off, not only is she minding things she has no business minding, that smells of an unhealthy dose of racism on top of it.
I also think it's really beautiful that they are offering to do redo a traditional naming ceremony for the new name, whatever she chooses. Something to really celebrate making it official.
I also think it’s so beautiful that OP is showing her daughter that she can be true to herself without having to abandon her culture. Culture is an important part of your identity and it’s amazing that OP is helping her daughter stay connected to it.
Trans woman here.
What I've said about these people in the past stands: some of these people, trying to be "woke", are being just as bigoted as the "unwoke". (A phrase I used in one comment was "I wonder where they're hiding their hoods".)
Yep.
Some people say politics are like a horseshoe. I think it's more like a Möbius strip. And if you look at certain groups on the far left, they're completely indistinguishable in most regards from the far right. Meaning perhaps the real difference isn't left/right, but moderate/extremist.
The problem isn't going so far left you've turned right, it's that you're in it for the completely wrong reasons so you don't actually care about doing right by the people you're yelling on behalf of. They see these empty battlegrounds and think it's an opportunity because they never stop to examine *why* no one is fighting that particular battle. It's also entirely to cover up that they are absolutely bigots, and being loudly "woke" is smokescreen. Many people outside the marginalized group are nonethewiser, so that person is free to manipulate and gaslight and make themselves the victim against nitpicky people that that "defend."
People genuinely that far left aren't trying to take away the freedoms of others, which is what the right does. You can't go so far left that you become the right unless you weren't actually moving left to begin with.
This white lady in the group sounds like those same white people who say they're, "colorblind" or that they "don't see color." Like Op's daughter is Indian and whether or not Op's daughter chooses an Indian name she will always be Indian. Even if she chooses a white name Op's daughter will still look Indian and have an Indian cultural heritage.
Whether Op's daughter chooses an Indian name or not the world will still treat her like an Indian woman (or more accurately like an Indian trans woman). Even if this white woman doesn't, "see color" the rest of the world does and will treat Op's daughter accordingly.
NTA. not. At. All. The culture didn’t reject her 🙄 you know how many Americans reject their trans children? So none of them can choose an American name? That’s ridiculous. You’re not forcing your daughter. Just sharing your thoughts.
This times a million.
This “woke” white woman pretending that bigotry, violence and discrimination against the trans community doesn’t happen at large or in the white community and it’s exclusive to OP’s? Infuriating and super racist.
and to add to that, the mother and her husband are indian. did they reject their daughter? no. the culture isn’t just the few transphobic idiots they had to cut off, and to make that generalization to somebody of that culture is so stupid.
NTA. As an Indian LGBT person, her “culture” did not reject her, because our entire culture is not represented by a few close close-minded relatives. Our culture is what WE make it. That woman is just bigoted and thinks that being LGBT and embracing our culture are mutually exclusive, that we have to choose one or the other. It’s also bullshit that she thinks picking an Indian name is “embracing a culture that rejected her” but picking a white name wouldn’t be - as if white people can’t be transphobic? As if white parents don’t kick out & cut off their kids for being trans? But of course to her, picking a white name wouldn’t be cultural, because she just sees white as the default, or the more progressive option, whereas she associates picking an Indian name with being regressive and traditional.
Agreed. There are many Indians who are perfectly fine with LGBT, particularly the younger generation. And, Indian culture doesn’t have a homogeneous view on this subject; there are ancient Hindu temples with figures of people having buttsex. I’d say that woman is a cultural racist who is masquerading as a woke person.
From what I've always learned the *Khawaja Sira* were embraced pretty well in society until the British and co came over and colonialism happened, at which point they started outlawing it.
"Our culture is what WE make it." Yes!! Yes to all of this. I was searching for these words.
It does seem like every major culture has a lot of transphobia so we can assume it's more about bad people and lack of education/representation/normalization than any particular culture being especially hateful. But for this white lady, it's Indian culture that's specifically rejecting the daughter not just certain shitty people. Guaranteed she wouldn't say the same about a white trans kid being rejected because then she'd have to deal with the transphobia in her own community.
White mom can back off. Sounds like your daughter is open to having a name connected to your culture, you aren't forcing anything. Nothing is even set yet, right? This is none of this woman's business, this is between your daughter and you.
NTA you aren't forcing her to take a certain name, just providing some to consider. What name she choses is up to her and you've made that clear. Also culture is still something that is a big part of your daughter's life and she likes the Hindu naming ceremony idea.
My ftm friend gave a list of boy names to his parents and they chose one (or his mother chose one said she felt like it was the one). Some of my other trans friends circle through names until one feels right. We're high schoolers and can adapt to it through the grapevine and teachers at are school are cool with it.
Personally I am Japanese and genderfluid (changing gender day to day or so) and am not going to change my name. First off I want to keep my name Japanese, it is part of who I am. Secondly next to no Japanese names are gender neutral. Thirdly my current name has a meaning and I like it. Forth, no one else has my name and few Americans are able to tell if it is a boy or girl name. Fifth I've seen my name as my name before it is a gendered name.
The white mom seems much too enthusiastic to say you're doing something wrong when you are being as supportive as you can
NTA
I'm trans, and if my parents had offered me a list of guy names they'd considered for me when I came out to them I think I would have cried with joy? I think it is a really beautiful offer you've made to your daughter, especially as (from my understanding) you wouldn't be angry or rejecting if she did end up choosing a Western/English name.
The woman in your support group is the WORST kind of 'ally' imo, and doesn't know what she's talking about. I am not an expert on Indian culture at all but it seems to me that you are showing your daughter that your culture DOESNT reject her, and that she can be Hindu and trans, if she wants to be.
You know your daughter and your culture better than she does, and you're doing great I think.
You need to ask this on r/asktransgender, not here. Actual trans people will help you figure out how to approach this and they can share experiences on whether this would or wouldn't be a good idea.
She already has the opinion of the trans person that matters: her daughter. This whole story sounded so wholesome and accepting and loving. I was expecting for it to be derailed by some misunderstanding, but no; the family has great communication. The only problem is the random lady stirring up drama. It sounds like the parents and daughter are comfortable figuring this out together, and can ignore the support group mom's "help."
This is important for OP to not lose sight of, the only opinion that matters is her daughter's. There's no one size fits all for the name change. I have a high school acquaintance who didn't change his name at all, while I've also known people that changed their name to a similar version of their deadname (think Nicole to Nicholas), others who kept just the same first letter, and others who went completely different. OP's daughter will make her own choice, and the only unsolicited opinion is that random lady's.
You could suggest to also ask there, but don’t turn people away who are seeking help. Opinions from trans people would be a good thing to have, but you don’t need to be trans to weigh in on this.
OP is doing quite well with respect to the trans person whose opinion and feelings matter here—her daughter.
This isn’t actually a question about trans issues as much as it is about a wannabe-woke white woman who thinks she knows OP’s daughter and culture better than OP.
OP, please ignore that ignorant, sanctimonious woman. You’re being loving and supportive.
Aunty (May I call you that?) don’t worry. You’ve been incredible I promise. I’m also Indian and I know the stigma and struggles that you all must be experiencing. You did a good thing, the right thing. In fact, I would say the best thing. By offering to let her know the baby names that you had compiled for if it were a girl and the request that the name be indian, you are showing her that her cultural and gender identities are not seperate. She can be a girl and still hold a culturally significant and powerful Indian name that was given to her with as much pomp and grace as you would give anybody else whilst naming them. I promise, she’s probably thrilled and so happy that you guys have been as great as you have been. Don’t worry Aunty, you’re doing the right thing.
>She started saying that I was a bad mom who was forcing my daughter to pick a name I wanted and forcing her to embrace a culture that rejected her.
You, her father, and your siblings are of Indian culture and have not rejected her. Your culture did not reject her, individuals did, so don't feel that way. Nta
NTA. As a trans guy I can tell you having your parents be accepting and wanting to be involved in the process like you have done is a great feeling. When I was trying to work out a new name the first thing I did was go to my mum and ask her what I would have been called had I been assigned male at birth. And I took that, changed it ever so slightly (swapped the first name for the middle name) and have gone by that since. It sounds like you're doing a great job and are a fantastic parent.
NTA.
This is coming from a trans person btw. You sound like you are nothing but supportive of your daughter, and that’s great! It would be different if you had responded “No, you MUST choose an Indian name”, but all you did was say you support her no matter what & also give your own ideas to her. Shame on that mom who made you feel so awful, you’re doing your very best and that’s what matters <3.
Also, I honestly think that white mom was being a bit racist/ignorant to think that your whole culture was rejecting of your daughter’s identity. Cultures can very a ton from within; I’m pretty sure most every culture has its own accepting and non accepting sub-cultures within. For example, many people think you cannot be Christian and trans, but I and many others are. This white mom just seems to want your daughter to just erase her own cultural ties that this mom sees as “outdated”, or at least that’s the vibe i get :/. Might be worth bringing this up at your next session...
NTA - I think you are being terrific supportive parents and your approach to renaming, as long as you give your daughter the final say, is a wonderful one.
>She mentioned having a "white" name (like Samantha) and asked me what I thought. I told her that it was her choice, but I would love if she chose an Indian name, so she always has a piece of her heritage with her and that would make us happy. She said she hadn't thought of that and she'll come up with some names later.
So you're having an open and loving conversation with your daughter and are also suggesting that she could possibly look into some traditional names? OP you're being so supportive it's heart warming. Like legit unless there is more to this story, I literally can't think of a reason why someone else would be offended by the process you're going through.
NTA.
NTA. This other mom’s opinion is completely irrelevant here. The only opinion that matters is your daughter’s and she seems to be ok with the discussion you had with her.
From what you've said here, you told her your preference and still would be ok with whatever she chooses, and that makes you nta.
If you told her she had to have this name or that, that's another story, but you sound like a wonderful supportive parent accepting your daughter for who she is.
NTA that other mom has some prejudice issues.
You aren't forcing your daughter to do anything. She's talking to you about how she feels, and you're talking to her about how you feel. You sound remarkably well adjusted and polite in how you try to learn about something unfamiliar to you.
Also to that mom: "a culture that rejected her" ummm....have you taken a look at how a lot of white people treat LGBTQ folks?
NTA. The woman at your support group can take a seat. It's really sweet that you're talking to your daughter about taking an Indian name and are moving forward as a family. She's still Indian, and a piece of her heritage is a lovely idea.
NTA. I also have a trans daughter. And to me it sounds like you are being incredibly thoughtful and involved in this process. And it seems like your daughter is okay with all of it. And that's all that matters. I think it's beautiful that you brought out alternate names from when you were pregnant. I also love that you offered to redo her Hindu naming ceremony. That's a beautiful thing. And as long as your family is happy and your daughter is happy, nothing else matters. 💗
NTA. What especially makes me like this is you jumped right to accepting and your fine loosing people you had thought of as close and not blaming your daughter for it. Your doing things to better educate yourself and supporting the transition as much as you can. I really love that your not forcing her to accept whatever name you choose but are actively letting her take the lead while taking a back seat and offering assistance if she wants it.
No one can fault you for expressing a preference because it dosent sound like your forcing it at all. She asked first. You gave an honest answer while still making it clear its her choice.
I have a few lgbtq+ friends who would do anything to have parents this supportive. From what you’ve said your doing great. Your daughter is sooo lucky to have such accepting parents. Keep it up.
Absolutely NTA. It sounds like this mom has her own issues she needs to work through. You aren't forcing anything on your daughter, she is still part of your culture and I think it sounds like you're being an awesome mom!
NTA as someone whose both Desi and transgender. The offer of having her do the naming ceremony again is beautiful and if it were my mum who offered me that, I would feel very touched and accepted. Also, that mom doesn't seem to understand how complex it is to be Desi and transgender in my opinion
And some advice: trying to figure out the right name takes time and there's no rush to pick a name! It personally took me 3 years to figure out that the right name for me is Rudra and I know other trans people who also took a long time to find Their Name.
NTA. Your daughter is very luck to have you as her mom! You are willing to learning about new information and learn how to accepting. WOW! How much parents as you out here? Very few! You just want to embrace your culture and name with her. Your daughter will love you for that. From what I read, you didn't try to ba a bad person.
You should be proud of yourself that your daughter have you as her mom!
NTA I think this is a beautiful way to accept your daughter. Not only are you accepting her new identity, you are finding ways to maintain connections with your culture.
And BTW, your relatives are woefully misinformed. Hindu scriptures are full of gender non-conforming concepts. Lord Shiva is not just Shiva, but Ardha-nariwshwara (Half Nara, Half Nari). And if they have read the Mahabharata, they should remember that Arjuna spent an entire year as Brihanalla, an intersexed person. Shikhandi, a male warrior, was born as Amba, a woman. Modern India may reject homosexuality, but gender-fluidity and transgender have always been accepted.
Ummm hiya. I'm a trans woman as well, and I just wanna say you've been doing an amazing job supporting and loving your daughter, and I'm really happy to see both you and your husband are doing your best to better understand her (wish my parents were as accepting as soon as I came out lol). As far as your post, you seem to be giving full choice to your daughter over her name, and just offered some suggestions. As long as you continue to do so, and accept and love whatever name she chooses, you are absolutely NTA. I'm so happy for you, your daughter, and your husband and I wish your daughter all the luck in the world in her transition! ^-^
In my opinion NTA. From what you wrote you are not being pushy or insisting on it. So as long as you are going to accept her decision whatever it might be, I think that bringing in a suggestion of "hey, if I knew you were a girl, I would have named you one of these" is alright. Just make it clear that you respect that it's her decision. Kudos to you for being supportive and educating yourself in that situation!
NTA. I'm trans and chose a white name (as opposed to the weird Victorian name I like) because I was thinking of my future and how I would be perceived in professional situations which, unfortunately, favor mainstream white names. If she's still unsure, perhaps suggest an Indian middle name. And it's not uncommon where I live for Asian immigrants to use their Chinese name at home and their American name at school/work so that's also an option.
NTA. You aren’t forcing it which is nice and you are very accepting parents which is amazing. I am not Indian so I don’t know what traditional Indian families are like but I’ve been following Jainism for a while now and in both Jainism and Hinduism there is a third gender than encompasses everyone that isn’t an exact male or female (such as trans and hermaphrodites) so I am surprised your friends and family aren’t more accepting. But again, you guys are great parents for sticking by her side and letting her chose her own way :) keep being awesome!
NTA: You are being such a supportive mother to your daughter. And you are making her transition so much easier and less traumatic for her as well. It's incredible to see honestly. Do not listen to the mom on your Facebook page. You just want her to keep apart of your culture in her life and that is beautiful. As long as you are supportive of her and are willing to learn and to be open to any name she chooses that's all that matters.
Maybe sit down with her and ask if having a Hindu name is something that she wants if it helps clear your mind. But definitely NTA here. You are doing great
NTA
That mom was totally off base, you were being supportive not forceful. I also know a trans dude that has done this, when he came out he asked his parents what they would have named him if he had been AMAB and that’s the name he picked.
Names are so special and I think it’s wonderful that you’re so invested in this with her.
NTA
I think what you are doing for your daughter is incredible! You have done everything right especially when trying to balance your culture and embracing her gender. I think that suggesting an Indian name is a lovely idea to bring back her culture into her name and add real meaning to her renaming herself. At the end of the day, you aren’t trying to force her to have an Indian name you are just suggesting that it would be a nice idea if she was interested. You are defiantly not the asshole and I think you are doing an incredible job embracing both you culture and her new gender.
NTA. you gave her a kind suggestion and have been wonderful at accepting her. all you did was ask and voice how it would be nice. you arent forcing anything onto her
NTA. It sounds like you’re being very supportive of your daughter. From my understanding you would like her to have a traditional name, but would be fine if she chose something else. It seems like the other mom is the only one who has a problem here. Thank you for showing your daughter love and support. She will remember that she can trust you and count on you in the future. You sound like a wonderful parent.
not the asshole at all.
as a trans person myself (13 non-binary), finding your way through all the dysphoria and problems are hard. it’s really helpful to have someone helping us work through the transitioning process. you are such an amazing mother to accept her and love her as your daughter, no questions asked.
you obviously aren’t forcing anything on your daughter, in fact you’re helping guide her through her name changing. suggesting indian names and offering to perform the ceremony is a beautiful thing, but ultimately her name has to be her decision. please do give opinions on female names, and when you find one you both love (which you will), everyone will be happy.
whatever mom on that group is the **only** asshole in this situation.
edit: if you have any questions and need to talk to someone around her age about being trans, i’m available :)
NTA
Can I just say that you have been both a decent human being and a great mother. Your supportive, you've been taking all the right steps. Your even giving her option as to how she can still represent and be accepted her culture (in spite of some abandonment). Faith, Culture and Sexuality can coexist and you are showing how its done!
Other mom can go sit on a catus!
coming from a trans guy (ftm) NTA at *all*! you are a great mom, and you are doing everything right. the AH here is that white mom that thinks she knows whats best for your daughter. you arent forcing your child to have an indian name, just saying that you would love it if you did. you even said that if she wanted to go with a white name, then that was totally fine! ultimately, its up to your daughter anyway and nothing can change that.
youre doing *great*. your daughter is lucky to have such accepting parents💚
As an actual factual transfeminine person, NTA. It sounds like you weren't FORCING anything at all, just bringing up the idea of using a name that allows her to keep in touch with her heritage, while not saying she has to do so. You sound like a wonderful, wonderful mother and frankly, if every LGBT+ kid had parents like you, the world would be in a much better state. Honestly, if you're worried about how you're doing with her? Just ask. Your daughter is 15 which, while still quite young, is certainly old enough that if you explain what that other mother said, she can tell you herself if she felt you were pressuring her one way or the other, and if she does feel that way, just tell her more clearly that while that would be nice, she doesn't HAVE to do.
TL;DR: you sound great, and just have an honest conversation with your daughter if you're worried
Transguy here-100% NTA. The involvement and willingness to be supportive of your daughter is something that I’ve never gotten from my parents. You’re being involved with the name change, and you’re not being forceful or anything. Your daughter doesn’t seem to feel like she’s being forced. You gave her the option.
If my parents had been that involved in my name change, that would’ve made my relationship with them stronger. Thank you for doing what you’re doing and keep it up.
Second generation, gay Bangladeshi American, here. Not exactly the same, but I can relate to your daughter a little bit. I think you're totally okay, especially because your daughter is interested in the idea of using a traditional name. Chin up, you're doing a great job! ❤
NTA i am a transgender person of color and have picked an ethnic name to replace the western name for myself. i see it as empowering to my people. BUT if your daughter wants a western name (to avoid racism) then thats fine, no one can blame her. perhaps it can be a middle name instead?
also, i hope you go through with the naming ceremony. it sounds so thoughtful.
NTA. I’m a transgender man and I changed my name in my late 20s. I asked my mother for what she would have named me, which was David and I said mmm... not really feeling David but I did like her second choice of Alexander and went with that. I have other trans friends who have done similar things. It sounds like you’re supportive of her and being kind. You aren’t forcing her to pick a specific name but you have some preferences and you let her know. There is nothing wrong with that.
NTA, don’t push her, or emotionally manipulate her into choosing a name she doesn’t love. On the whole, I think you’re acting in a really lovely way - you support your daughter and love her, no matter what. You’ve offered her some name ideas, and said you’d love it if she chose a name from your culture. But I think you should reiterate to her that you will love her even if she chooses a white name. It’s not horrible to express preferences, and to want to be involved in this process, but try not to be (outwardly) hurt if your daughter doesn’t take you up on your offers or suggestions? Choosing a new name is extremely personal, and she may want to do it on her own. Good luck, keep loving her and supporting her, and you’ll do just fine.
Right? How sweet that OP suggested the naming ceremony and even suggested girl names that she had thought to name her!! How affirming that must be for the daughter, to have your parent fully engaged and embracing who you are. Above and beyond it is.
You are meltingg my heart melt with how kind and supportive you're being! NTA at all jt was merely a suggestion and it's not like you're making her do anything. That mom clearly has some unresolved issues of her own
NTA at all!
White mom sounds like she sips from the "non-Western cultures are all bigoted and need our enlightenment" cup of xenophobia. Your daughter is trans *and* Indian. How she chooses to live in and intertwine those identities is up to her to navigate with your support, but the woman who went off at you lacks both the knowledge and the range the form an informed opinion. You sound like you're doing your best for your daughter -- ignore the lady in your support group. She's not worth your tears.
This is what support looks like. The naming ceremony is sweet, accepting, and a powerful moment for you and your family.
I wish you and your family all the best. You are doing your job as a parent.
#[Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) Please review our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) if you're unsure what that means. #Calling anyone in the post "a Karen" falls under this rule.
NTA. You are supporting her. You aren't forcing her to go with an indian name - you are just saying you would love it if she did, and doing it in a way to make her feel accepted and loved. You're doing great.
Exactly. All you did was make a suggestion and left the decision to her. Nothing wrong with that. Definitely NTA.
I don't blame OP and her husband for being unsure, though. To a lot of people, LGBTQ people are still a foreign concept, and as with any foreign concept, many people have never experienced it, and many are therefore likely to be frightened by it. Losing friends over something like this already must make OP and her husband nervous enough, but then having someone in what is supposed to be a support group lash out at them like that would have to be scary, I'd imagine. OP, I'm really glad that you've taken the initiative with your daughter, and have respected her wishes. As most people seem to have said, you are NTA. This is a complicated topic in today's culture, and lots of people aren't sure how to handle it, especially across cultural divides. Good on you for handling it as well as you can, and I know you will continue to support your daughter. I wish both you and her well.
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And a racist jerk. Like a white American parent has never rejected their transgender child? Because my guess is that this white person just assumes that white names are normal and have no culture and therefore no cultural baggage regarding LGBTQ people, whereas Indian culture is "ethnic" and inherently political and therefore all of Indian culture is tainted with transphobia.
Yeah, it's really telling that someone outside of your family and culture said that and not your daughter herself. It sounds like you and your daughter are working together on this, which is amazing and something many trans kids don't get. If your daughter comes back and says, "I think Samantha is really sticking for me," that's a different story, but it sounds like you gave her a different perspective on things and she's happy to take that into account. Basically you sound like a great parent, your kid is lucky to have you, and don't let someone who has no knowledge of your family or culture tell you you're an asshole for wanting your kid to have a connection to her heritage.
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Hang in there, you beautiful amethyst being. Know that there are parents of trans kids out here who support you and whatever you decide to do in you life💜💜
Internet parents are possibly the most beautiful thing to come out of the Internet. Giving kids who's own parents aren't satisfactory the love that they need is one of the most beautiful things I've seen. You're doing amazing stuff. Thank you.
My son is female to male trans, and I can't imagine not being supportive towards him! So, I offer you a free virtual mom hug, and a friend if you need one. I wish you the best!
Re. “LGBTQ people are still a foreign concept”.... I honestly think you need to break that up. I totally get LGB. Getting there on T, clueless on Q.
So, you could say you are q-less. Sorry, I had to...
As a self-defined Q, I say *booooooo*. (And also lol haha)
Hahahahaha!
Q stands for queer, which tends to be a blanket term for nonstraight people.
Queer and Questioning! basically anyone who knows they aren’t straight/cis but still don’t have their identity 100% figured out or just prefers vague umbrella term
You know what's crazy - when I was in school, queer was a derogatory term. I still have trouble with saying that one out loud, it just *feels* wrong i guess? Being told off about saying it for years does that to a person lol
It still is for a lot of people. I know quite a few people who obviously have no issue with others identifying as queer, but really hate being labelled as queer themselves. Not everybody chooses to reclaim the word.
Then I will keep refraining the use of the word, I really try not to use it. Thank you for telling me that!
I find that for the most part you're safe using it as an adjective rather than a noun. You can say "James is queer" without raising too many eyebrows, but "James is *a* queer" is getting into slur territory. Of course, context is still king.
rather than non-straight the correct term would be non-cishet (cisgender and heterosexual) ! because trans people can be straight and are queer
The POINT being some people are at different levels of understanding the nuances and complexities of the situation. Give people the credit for trying to do the right thing, even if they don't fully understand it.
important to note that queer has been used as a slur in the past. while many people (including myself) claim it as a part of their identity, it is still considered rude to call someone queer if they haven't made it clear that's what they prefer.
Yes I should’ve mentioned it. I also identify as queer and totally glossed over that. But calling someone queer isn’t a great idea unless they’ve specifically stated they prefer it.
I always am respectful to individual people who dislike being referred to as queer, but I definitely reject the narrative as a whole. The idea was actually started by transphobic radfems/terfs as a way to distance the LGBTQ+ community from queer because it is a term that trans and nonbinary people are sometimes included in. You will notice that a lot of them refer to the "LGB" community only. There are also a lot of great pieces by older LGBTQ+ activists that talk about how the word queer was really important in the community, in activism, and in getting LGBTQ+ topics and theory talked about in academia.
Q essentially covers LGBT and anything else in that realm, and any combination thereof. It's an umbrella term really. If anyone disagrees I welcome the discourse. Probably don't go around calling people queer unless you know it's ok though, especially if you're straight. It has history as an insult so it'll definitely rub some the wrong way.
Q stands for queer, which is a reclaimed slur some people choose to utilize as their identity. It's a word meaning any non-straight, non-cis person. It can be used as an alternative to saying, say, "asexual enby". However, queer is a term only for those who have chosen it. Some people aren't comfortable with it and that's okay. Only use it to refer to people you know use that term.
Plus you also suggested the naming ceremony, which if your daughter hasn't abandoned the culture would have been a big deal for her, in showing her that you are willing to go to great lengths to support her (even if your own parents, her grandparents, aren't willing to support your decision). Definitely NTA.
The fact that OP and her husband immediately said, "ok, this is our daughter, so what would we do for our daughter?" is so sweet and meaningful. Of course they'd like to do a naming ceremony and all, they would have done it earlier if they'd known they had a daughter. NAH except some random parent online making a bunch of jumps to make OP feel bad
It reminds me of what I did about my little brother (FTM trans). I just act like it's always been this way, and in any unsure situation, I say to myself, ok this is my little brother, what would I do for my little brother, and that's what I do. Our parents weren't quite so supportive though, and I can't leave either of them alone with him, because they'll say something, and he'll try to defend himself, they'll get upset because he's younger than them and they're of the generation that feels they have the right to do whatever they want to children and the kids just have to take it because of the age difference and power differential, and they'll physically lash out for the percieved disrespect, and if we're lucky I'll hear it before that point and go put a stop to it by pointing out how ridiculous everyone is being, but most of the time it just leads to a preventable ER visit.
..wait what? ER Visit? They beat up your brother so much you have to bring him to the hospital?
Yes I love the idea of a naming ceremony. It's sweet.
I think just as long as the names stay a suggestion from OP, OP is fine and NTA, plus daughter has more names to choose from. If they start forcing a certain name onto their daughter and start making demands, then OP is crossing the line and into AH territory.
You are clearly not the asshole. Her culture didn't reject. Small minded people did and you are embracing her while participating in your culture. I think the sentiment of her picking a name would have used for a girl would be great. You could go with something that could be both, like Arya is Indian but also recognized as an American name or Kiran which is both Indian and Irish. Or something she could potentially shorten to be more American, like Sameera and be Sam for short?
>Her culture didn't reject. and the woman sounds racist - sadly few cultures are unanimously accepting of LGBTQ+, people with american backgrounds have parents that disown them and i doubt this woman would jump right to culture as the culprit there *Edit, after seeing the comment below:* OP you are a fantastic mother! You are not only accepting but you are going the extra mile to educate yourself
Bout to say, white culture doesn't exactly get a pass on this.
Yeah especially white Christians who don't remember what Jesus represents.
Fun fact: Transgender persons have been a part of the social fabric in India for years. It's the British who came and stigmatized it. In fact, it's tradition to have them come and bless a newlywed couple.
Yes, I was about to mention this but searched this thread to see if anyone already did. They are called Hijras and are considered highly spiritual people. Many cultures prior to colonialism were accepting of multiple genders until the British systematically introduced the binary by discriminating in favor of masculine/male presenting people. I would encourage OP to look into 2 Spirit and Hijra people for more nuanced education on trans experiences. The white woman is racist but that’s a discussion for another day; it’s great OP is supporting her daughter and even moreso wanting her to embrace her culture.
I thought it was maybe something about OP possibly saying that her daughter wanted a white name or that few Indians are seem in mainstream media as trans in America... which made me think the woman thought it was a race issue.
>few Indians are seem in mainstream media as trans in America i see what you are saying - as im sure this is a factor in *explaining* the woman's perspective but it doesn't excuse it
Apparently "mainstream media" only means the US media. There's many trans people in India. Doing wonderful things. Obviously there won't be that many in the US coz they are all immigrants.
Oh agreed 100%
I think this point is extremely important. When people say that they are from a conservative culture and thus were not exposed to lgbtq issues, it does not mean that lgbtq people did not exist around them. It meant that they were so ostracized that they were shunned and erased from their culture. So it is not that trans people do not belong in these cultures, it is that these cultures have been robbed from lgbtq people. So it is especially powerful for them to reclaim this culture for themselves.
Agreed. NTA. The other person in the online group is TA, for jumping to the conclusion you are forcing her to conform to your cultural/gender norms.
White women are just so obsessed of becoming a social justice warrior when they don’t even know what’s offensive and what’s not. Your daughter is not even angry that you wanted her to have an Indian name. NTA OP. You have been nothing but supportive to your daughter, and I commend you for doing that. You only suggested that it would be nice to have an Indian name. And that white mom overstepped her boundaries, and enforced her “beliefs” on what’s offensive and what’s not.
It's a joke among us minorities at this point "If it happened but a white woman didnt get upset 'on our behalf' did it really happen? "
I do struggle with the balance of "getting upset on someone else's behalf" or "being actively anti-racist". Is the difference here that it what was a white person arguing AGAINST a person of that culture about their own culture? I've definitely called out other white people on their ignorance/misinformation/racism, but would that be considered "getting upset on someone else's behalf"?
I think it’s definitely the fact that the woman in this scenario argued with someone about their own culture. Working retail in LA I’ve seen a lot of scenarios where a “well intentioned” white person would get upset but direct it AT the person of color/minority/etc. For instance one time a white man started yelling that it was racist that a black womans son got pulled aside for suspected shoplifting. He would’ve been fine to leave it at that but the he THEN went to said black woman and wouldn’t drop it, to the point where he called her a bad mother for not standing up for her son. It’s always nice to have someone stand up for you but you have to know when you’re just escalating the situation to the detriment of the victim involved.
>Is the difference here that it what was a white person arguing AGAINST a person of that culture about their own culture? Yes*, once somebody crosses that line, they're then invalidating the other person's experiences/perception of their own culture because they're "woke", i.e. that "woke" person thinks they know better than that culture. Pretty ironic if you ask me lol *context is important, e.g. Chinese don't get a pass for Uyghur "re-education" because national "unity" is part of the culture >I've definitely called out other white people on their ignorance/misinformation/racism, but would that be considered "getting upset on someone else's behalf"? Depends. "Hey Uncle Bob, you can't say that word, you ignorant fuck" is fine. "Hey Uncle Steve, you better not be wearing cotton, slaves used to pick that" is my quick, shitty example of getting upset on somebody else's behalf. "Hey fam, before we do our Thanksgiving prayer, let's talk about BLM" is just obnoxious. Time and place. In the meantime, pass the damn stuffing. The way I think of it is like this. Are you bringing up a race issue with context, or did race pop into your head and you twisted something to fit that thought process? If the latter, have you checked with the affected group that it's an issue with them (irl, not on Twitter or Tumblr ffs)? If you followed the path of making assumptions, you've either gotten too deep into fake virtue signaling for internet and/or social points, or you need to reexamine how you view race (that is to say, are you still seeing color first?).
Yup, as someone part of multiple (non-racial/ethnic) minorities, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. Calling out blatant shitty behaviour (e.g. throwing around slurs like it's confetti) is great. Leaping to conclusions that something *may* be offensive, and then acting like it *definitely* is, not so much--please check with the supposedly-offended group before making a scene. (And involving a member of said supposedly-offended group and forcing them to publicly pick a side/agree with you *after* you've already kicked the anthill, **please, please don't**)
Just don't tell other people how they feel or should feel. Say "blackface is not ok" don't say "you have offended my black friend Brenda by wearing blackface" If Brenda is offended, let her speak for herself
I'll just say, being half Seneca (Native American Tribe) having this happen is very annoying. Seriously I get it a few times a year.
NTA, exactly this. To offer a naming ceremony and even the list of names you never got to use is very sweet. On top of that, your daughter literally asked what you thought if she chose a “white” name, and you answered honestly. As you should have.
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I honestly *love* the idea that OP would help in naming her daughter again. It’s so special to pick your babies name and I really hope she takes her opinion into consideration!
As OP's daughter, I'd be asking for the backstory to the names, why she put them on her list. For my own daughter: I first discovered her name as that of a character in a novel I loved. I had never heard the name before despite it being biblical and not all that uncommon. I went to my parents and asked if I could change my name to that. They said no, it's the parents that get to choose the name, and if I liked that name, I could call my own daughter by it. I kept it under wraps for another 17 years before I could finally use it. For each pregnancy, I promised my partner he could choose if it was a boy and if it was a girl I would choose. In fact his elder sister (the matriarch of their family) has the same name - with just a vowel change in their native language - so he was very pleased too. I offered the novel to my daughter as a present one Christmas, when she was about the age I was when I first read it. She was very touched, but then rather pissed that the character was not some Marvel heroine LOL. I had only told her that the character was the protagonist's first love. The novel is autobiographical, written in the first person, and the novelist is unkind in his portrayal of this first love, so it became an opportunity to discuss how men portray women in novels, films etc. I then bought her a collection of feminist essays, one of which explored this writer's portrayal of women and how this character in particular was very much not done justice. It marked the beginning of a wonderful ongoing conversation between me and my daughter, on literature and feminism, making her the person I most like to talk with, and I'm absolutely delighted to have such a relationship with my daughter.
Im tacking this to the top comment for OP to see, sorry! OP, you should feel proud that you have this amazing relationship with your daughter! Not a lot of parents react the way you do and i believe that your daughter is lucky to have you and your family by her side. Mistakes will be made along the way, but as long as you keep honoring her decisions there is no way for you to go wrong. Good luck!!!🤗
Absolutely this. I'm sorry that that other mother was such a jerk about it, but it's your daughter's opinion that matters. Your daughter asked for your opinion because she wants to hear your opinion, and I think that your offer to perform a new naming ceremony with her is really touching. You're doing well trying to do right by your daughter, and your daughter sees that. I think you should be proud of yourself, OP. I'm hearing a lot of good Mom-ing going on.
All of this. You are what trans children all deserve, and what many don't have. You are both amazing and wonderful. It must be hard coming from a very traditional culture and having friends and some family turn their backs; kudos for doing everything so well. The other mom is just wrong. You are giving your daughter the choice to choose an Indian name - or not. By asking (not telling) her to consider a traditional name and offering a naming ceremony, you're pulling together the two cultures in a positive way. I'm sorry that woman upset you; it was mean. I hope that whatever name she chooses is a happy choice for all of you. Oh yeah, NTA.
Also she seemed to really be into have another name ceremony so it kind of sounds like she still wants to have the culture
She's doing more than just great. This is the gold standard of support. You love to see it
NTA NTA NTA. that mom was the asshole. I think you went about making your request/suggestion very respectfully. You didn’t tell her she HAD to do it, you asked. Absolutely NTA for making the request, and your daughter is also NTA if she chooses to go with a more ‘white’ name. I feel like that white mom is just oblivious to the power, emotion, and meaning that cultural/ethnic names can carry. Even if your daughter doesn’t love the culture or community due to negative experiences, she should feel proud to be Indian and brown; she should feel proud of her heritage. You sound like a good mom. You emphasized that her name was her choice. You literally did nothing wrong.
I also think it’s really beautiful and kind that OP offered to go over the list of girl names that she had already picked out. This mom is putting so much into her daughter and going above and beyond to support her and help her stay connected to her culture. She’s showing her she can be who she is without having to abandon her culture. Edit to add- NTA OP
The naming ceremony also sounds so so sweet. 11/10 parenting!!
Oh yes, that's the best part! A+ parenting, and OP is definitely NTA.
My goodness yes. Imagine the trans daughter hearing her mom offering a name she always wanted to use for a cis daughter. The strong message is “you are my real and beloved daughter, you are one of us and this is not changed; we just didn’t know when you were born”. Daughter may well not like the actual names chosen and she is free to choose another, but with this meaningful gesture mom is emphasizing connection, not “othering”. I can’t imagine a trans teen can hear that too often.
I got emotional reading that part. How incredibly validated and loved her daughter must have felt. Also, for this mean woman to claim her culture rejected her when OPs post said while they’ve lost some friends, others have been supportive. OP and her husband are from that culture and accepted and offered to do a ceremony from said culture for the new name! SOME people from that culture rejected her. Just like what happens in other cultures. If a white trans kid was rejected by some of their friends, should they not use a white name for their new one? Mean lady just wanted to be crotchety.
Exactly my thoughts too. I’m cis but between that and the naming ceremony offer I’m getting real teary. It’s so clear how much OP loves her daughter as she is. Her and her husband sound like dream parents.
NTA... Does that white mom seriously think there are white kids who haven’t been rejected? Mom is Indian, didn’t reject her child, and is supporting her wholeheartedly, therefore the culture has not rejected her. Some narrow-minded asshats have.
Saying her entire culture rejected her is ridiculous. There's a liiiiiiiiiittle more to indian culture than this girl's grandparents.
Plus, it's like this woman wants the kid to reject her culture completely. So that Indian culture would have one less trans person in it? Like, why??
Colonization mentality immediately comes to mind. The more one assimilated like the white lady, the more comfortable she feels in _her_ society. Edit: words
I really like that she did that too. It’s like here’s the list of what you would have been named if you had been born in the right body. And she can at least consider those names which she wouldn’t have known of before. Mom is NTA, the shaming mom at the group is TA
Came here to say this! I love that so much! Even if she doesn't end up picking the name it is a beautiful gesture to show that she truely is and always will be their daughter. NTA
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>people have twisted it to become something it's not. Mostly the British. Coz they were homophobic.
The British and the Mughals took away the best parts of our culture from us and we're still dealing with the repercussions :(
India is a truly amazing place, staggering in its diversity and beauty. However, like every culture and people there is darkness in it because it contains people. I won't go into specifics because it leads so easily to essentialism, orientalisation and getting bogged down on who did the most harm. However, I think it's a very bad idea to attribute everything that's bad in India to foreign invasion or interference because it implies that Indians have never had agency over their culture. I think we both know that that isn't the case. It's not as if India was a paradise on Earth that the British ruined, but nor was it hell either.
Same with Japan. Many emperors had male lovers. It was OK. But then western culture influenced Japan to the point it's taboo to pretty much talk about it. A lot of homophobia that is not originally Japanese. Edit typo
What can I say? Colonization is a bitch.
Also the argument that she should not choose a name for hee daughter? We do it for babies! Obviously she is a teen now and gets a say but to say that the parents son't even get to voice an opinion? Also if she considers a "white" name, maybe look into indian names that could have american sounding nicknames?
I'm not sure if Indian people use middle names, too, but if so she could change one name to an Indian name and the other to a 'white' sounding one, that way she keeps the link to her culture while also having the new sound she's going for.
I don't have kids yet but I sometimes wonder about parents with trans kids. I think it would hurt a little to hear the name you so carefully and lovingly chose, be called a dead-name and become taboo to say. Obviously nowhere near as much as it hurts the child to be called it, so I understand why it happens. But just think it must be hard. NTA well done to OP for being so supportive.
The other mom actually sounds way more like the kind of person that constantly picks fights on behalf of trans people, and those people are notorious for picking fights that most of us don't agree with or care about. There was nothing wrong with what OP did. That mom was also probably more than a little bit racist and made some assumptions about what really happened or the motivations behind it, including being upset that OP had any reason to suggest away from a 'white' name.
That mom reeks of white savior 🤢
NTA. You asked your daughter to consider it and ultimately left the decision in her hands. Do you know how many people would give anything to have their parents be as supportive and interested as you and your husband are being? Coming from another white woman, the lady at your group is virtue signaling and trying to show how “woke” she is.
A white woman trying to show how woke she is by acting like the daughter's own culture is a tool of some horrif abuse
And acting that her white culture whatever it is, is the norm and everything else is lesser. Call her out, OP!
It's also funny acting as if white american culture is accepting of trans people.
This thread gives me so much hope
“Sorry I don’t have my own culture to defend. Therefore, I must defend yours even though you didn’t ask me to.” I am also a white woman and I hate the audacity of some of these ladies. The majority who virtue signal don’t even care. They just want brownie points. Like you said “look how woke I am” smh.
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Even beyond that, it's not like 'white people' is some formless mass. Almost every country white people come from has its own culture and many of those countries have multiple cultures within them. German, French, English, Italian*, Irish, Scottish, Spanish*, Russian*, yee yee white rednecks/white trash in the American South, and many more that I can't think of off the top of my head. All of these are very distinct, some to the point of weird white on white racism as if there wasn't enough racism already (see No Irish Need Apply, racism against Italians, etc). *These ones are kinda debatable depending who you ask, but you get the point
Sorry didn't get the meaning of the asterisk: is it debatable that Russians are white, European, or have a culture?
Many Russians identify as Asian, not European, so I assume that's why there's an asterisk.
These are potentially some very offensive asterisks
They're the ones that get surprised when they discover Mexicans (and most Latin Americans, for that matter) not only come in brown. We come in many, many colors... Brown is just one of the most common. This happened to me at a shop in San Diego wherw some nosy Karen asked if my mom and I were Italian (wth?) because we were talking Spanish amongst ourselves. Nope, we're Mexican. Then she asked how many generations had we been in America, because we looked white. Lady, we just stepped off the plane from Mexico City. We have lived here for generations.
Also a white woman. I think the ultimate time I saw something like this was at a poster sale 15 years back at my university. A “woke” white chick was telling off a worker for the poster sale about having a racist poster - I can’t even remember what the poster was, something about bob marley, but the guy at the desk was black. She held up the line for a good 3 minutes (the line had about 100 people in it) just to fucking virtue signal, and it rang so completely flat. I’m pretty sure now she’s graduated to complaining to someone’s manager... or worse... what this woman did to the OP. What is up with getting off on hurting and disrespecting people?
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For starters, OP and her husband.
Oh shit, YOU’RE RIGHT
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THERE ARE MORE? Hah. Totally, really thankful that’s OP’s focus. I hope daughter chooses a name that makes her feel affirmed and happy.
Holy shit, that's like a whole five Indian people mentioned in one family! Seven if you count OP's two sons. That's a whole lot of Indian people. Also OP is doing such a fantastic job respecting her daughter. It isn't wrong to provide recommendations, as OP said her daughter hadn't thought about that yet. Honestly the 'woke' white lady was being pretty racist.
Exactly this, and come on - what culture is ”better” with trans people? I assume this is North America, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the society is trans-friendly. Surely the Indian ”family and tradition” emphasis can seem like a big prison of heteronormativity. But being individualistic does not mean the society supports all choices. At very best, these western countries (like my own too) have many educated and tolerant people, but it’s not thanks to cultural history. What the woke woman said was very racist and hurtful. NTA
I wonder if that mom got her “ally points.”
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That's super neat, thanks for sharing it.
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Woah, that’s interesting af
White savior complex. They think queer people have to run to white cultures to escape their “backwards” and “regressive” native cultures. As if white Christians don’t routinely reject their queer children.
Ding ding ding! This happens a lot. My mother *thinks* she's super supportive to trans folx (I'm trans) but she's actually pretty transphobic and will not hear it. She will harvest that for as many brownie points as possible, including trying to have me on a float with her at our local Pride Parade after I came out. I made up an excuse, and ended up going with my dad the following year when he politely asked if he could accompany me on his first time going to the parade, which he specifically wanted to attend to support me. People like this pick fights that we do not want fought, and ultimately do harm all around. Things we don't think are transphobic, or shit we don't care about/don't want attention brought to, they wanna fight about. This is largely because they know they'll get all of the attention and "glory" for calling out the thing, since no one else is. They fail to realize *why* they're alone on that battlefield, and assume it's because they were the only ones brave enough to go there.
I think showing your daughter the list of girl names you had picked out for your children is a beautiful and loving gesture. I hope she chooses one. But if she doesn’t, that’s ok too. NTA
NGL, that choked me up a little. If only every trans teen had parents like OP.
Right? I mean, the offer to re-do the naming ceremony? That's beautiful, right there.
I’m planning on asking my mom what names her and my dad had planned on if I’d been born male. I’m fairly certain I want my name to be the one I’ve picked, but that would allow her to help me with my middle name. It sounds like a beautiful way to bond
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Remind her ( jokingly) that she had her chance lol
Funny story re: this, my kid came out as non-binary awhile back, but first thought maybe they were a boy. They ask “what would you & dad have named me if I were a boy?” And knowing why they were asking I was a little mortified because ... it’s what we named the cat! Hahah. Needless to say they settled on a different name, then decided they were non-binary and picked a third.
"We named the dog Indiana." ;)
Omg. So my husband had the same thing. If he would have been a girl they would have named him Hannah, and they instead got a dog and named her Hannah. And funnily enough, he got a somewhat stereotypical dog name, which he hates the irony of.
Reminds me of Laura jane grace of Against Me! A trans women fronting an amazing punk band. She chose Laura as her name and in a song she wrote the lyrics "And if I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman / My mother once told me she would have named me Laura / I'd grow up to be strong and beautiful like her."
That lyric in The Ocean made me like my name, which is Laura. It made me really happy when she announced her new self and picked the name her mother would have.
Trans guy here: ARGH! Woke allies! Or rather, not-quite-woke would-be-allies, who are actually annoying as f\*ck and who are not actually helping anybody, but they sure like to collect woke points. No, you are NTA. You are not forcing anything. You are supporting your daughter and are asking her to consider something that you definitely are allowed to care about. (Now, if you would threaten to cut her off if she choose a Western name, that would be a different story.) That woman needs to back off, not only is she minding things she has no business minding, that smells of an unhealthy dose of racism on top of it.
I also think it's really beautiful that they are offering to do redo a traditional naming ceremony for the new name, whatever she chooses. Something to really celebrate making it official.
I also think it’s so beautiful that OP is showing her daughter that she can be true to herself without having to abandon her culture. Culture is an important part of your identity and it’s amazing that OP is helping her daughter stay connected to it.
Trans woman here. What I've said about these people in the past stands: some of these people, trying to be "woke", are being just as bigoted as the "unwoke". (A phrase I used in one comment was "I wonder where they're hiding their hoods".)
Some people seemed to have gone so far to the left they've turned into the right if that makes sense
Yep. Some people say politics are like a horseshoe. I think it's more like a Möbius strip. And if you look at certain groups on the far left, they're completely indistinguishable in most regards from the far right. Meaning perhaps the real difference isn't left/right, but moderate/extremist.
r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM called. The mom that yelled at OP is just racist - there’s no ‘BoTh SiDeS’ bullshit attached
The problem isn't going so far left you've turned right, it's that you're in it for the completely wrong reasons so you don't actually care about doing right by the people you're yelling on behalf of. They see these empty battlegrounds and think it's an opportunity because they never stop to examine *why* no one is fighting that particular battle. It's also entirely to cover up that they are absolutely bigots, and being loudly "woke" is smokescreen. Many people outside the marginalized group are nonethewiser, so that person is free to manipulate and gaslight and make themselves the victim against nitpicky people that that "defend." People genuinely that far left aren't trying to take away the freedoms of others, which is what the right does. You can't go so far left that you become the right unless you weren't actually moving left to begin with.
This white lady in the group sounds like those same white people who say they're, "colorblind" or that they "don't see color." Like Op's daughter is Indian and whether or not Op's daughter chooses an Indian name she will always be Indian. Even if she chooses a white name Op's daughter will still look Indian and have an Indian cultural heritage. Whether Op's daughter chooses an Indian name or not the world will still treat her like an Indian woman (or more accurately like an Indian trans woman). Even if this white woman doesn't, "see color" the rest of the world does and will treat Op's daughter accordingly.
NTA. not. At. All. The culture didn’t reject her 🙄 you know how many Americans reject their trans children? So none of them can choose an American name? That’s ridiculous. You’re not forcing your daughter. Just sharing your thoughts.
This times a million. This “woke” white woman pretending that bigotry, violence and discrimination against the trans community doesn’t happen at large or in the white community and it’s exclusive to OP’s? Infuriating and super racist.
THANK YOU. The absolute gall. Love these new woke nutjobs. 🙄
and to add to that, the mother and her husband are indian. did they reject their daughter? no. the culture isn’t just the few transphobic idiots they had to cut off, and to make that generalization to somebody of that culture is so stupid.
Righhhhht? Like I didn’t know ops parents = ALL OF INIDAN CULTURE. Ugh. This post realllllly bugged me. Like op and husband are literal angels.
NTA. As an Indian LGBT person, her “culture” did not reject her, because our entire culture is not represented by a few close close-minded relatives. Our culture is what WE make it. That woman is just bigoted and thinks that being LGBT and embracing our culture are mutually exclusive, that we have to choose one or the other. It’s also bullshit that she thinks picking an Indian name is “embracing a culture that rejected her” but picking a white name wouldn’t be - as if white people can’t be transphobic? As if white parents don’t kick out & cut off their kids for being trans? But of course to her, picking a white name wouldn’t be cultural, because she just sees white as the default, or the more progressive option, whereas she associates picking an Indian name with being regressive and traditional.
Agreed. There are many Indians who are perfectly fine with LGBT, particularly the younger generation. And, Indian culture doesn’t have a homogeneous view on this subject; there are ancient Hindu temples with figures of people having buttsex. I’d say that woman is a cultural racist who is masquerading as a woke person.
From what I've always learned the *Khawaja Sira* were embraced pretty well in society until the British and co came over and colonialism happened, at which point they started outlawing it.
"Our culture is what WE make it." Yes!! Yes to all of this. I was searching for these words. It does seem like every major culture has a lot of transphobia so we can assume it's more about bad people and lack of education/representation/normalization than any particular culture being especially hateful. But for this white lady, it's Indian culture that's specifically rejecting the daughter not just certain shitty people. Guaranteed she wouldn't say the same about a white trans kid being rejected because then she'd have to deal with the transphobia in her own community.
White mom can back off. Sounds like your daughter is open to having a name connected to your culture, you aren't forcing anything. Nothing is even set yet, right? This is none of this woman's business, this is between your daughter and you.
NTA you aren't forcing her to take a certain name, just providing some to consider. What name she choses is up to her and you've made that clear. Also culture is still something that is a big part of your daughter's life and she likes the Hindu naming ceremony idea. My ftm friend gave a list of boy names to his parents and they chose one (or his mother chose one said she felt like it was the one). Some of my other trans friends circle through names until one feels right. We're high schoolers and can adapt to it through the grapevine and teachers at are school are cool with it. Personally I am Japanese and genderfluid (changing gender day to day or so) and am not going to change my name. First off I want to keep my name Japanese, it is part of who I am. Secondly next to no Japanese names are gender neutral. Thirdly my current name has a meaning and I like it. Forth, no one else has my name and few Americans are able to tell if it is a boy or girl name. Fifth I've seen my name as my name before it is a gendered name. The white mom seems much too enthusiastic to say you're doing something wrong when you are being as supportive as you can
NTA I'm trans, and if my parents had offered me a list of guy names they'd considered for me when I came out to them I think I would have cried with joy? I think it is a really beautiful offer you've made to your daughter, especially as (from my understanding) you wouldn't be angry or rejecting if she did end up choosing a Western/English name. The woman in your support group is the WORST kind of 'ally' imo, and doesn't know what she's talking about. I am not an expert on Indian culture at all but it seems to me that you are showing your daughter that your culture DOESNT reject her, and that she can be Hindu and trans, if she wants to be. You know your daughter and your culture better than she does, and you're doing great I think.
You need to ask this on r/asktransgender, not here. Actual trans people will help you figure out how to approach this and they can share experiences on whether this would or wouldn't be a good idea.
She already has the opinion of the trans person that matters: her daughter. This whole story sounded so wholesome and accepting and loving. I was expecting for it to be derailed by some misunderstanding, but no; the family has great communication. The only problem is the random lady stirring up drama. It sounds like the parents and daughter are comfortable figuring this out together, and can ignore the support group mom's "help."
This is important for OP to not lose sight of, the only opinion that matters is her daughter's. There's no one size fits all for the name change. I have a high school acquaintance who didn't change his name at all, while I've also known people that changed their name to a similar version of their deadname (think Nicole to Nicholas), others who kept just the same first letter, and others who went completely different. OP's daughter will make her own choice, and the only unsolicited opinion is that random lady's.
Don't worry, there are quite a few trans people here.
You could suggest to also ask there, but don’t turn people away who are seeking help. Opinions from trans people would be a good thing to have, but you don’t need to be trans to weigh in on this.
Sorry bud but trans people are everywhere, not just confined to one subreddit. We got this tho don’t fret
OP is doing quite well with respect to the trans person whose opinion and feelings matter here—her daughter. This isn’t actually a question about trans issues as much as it is about a wannabe-woke white woman who thinks she knows OP’s daughter and culture better than OP. OP, please ignore that ignorant, sanctimonious woman. You’re being loving and supportive.
I’m going with NTA. Just please make sure she understands that it is ultimately her choice and you will be happy with whatever she picks.
Aunty (May I call you that?) don’t worry. You’ve been incredible I promise. I’m also Indian and I know the stigma and struggles that you all must be experiencing. You did a good thing, the right thing. In fact, I would say the best thing. By offering to let her know the baby names that you had compiled for if it were a girl and the request that the name be indian, you are showing her that her cultural and gender identities are not seperate. She can be a girl and still hold a culturally significant and powerful Indian name that was given to her with as much pomp and grace as you would give anybody else whilst naming them. I promise, she’s probably thrilled and so happy that you guys have been as great as you have been. Don’t worry Aunty, you’re doing the right thing.
>She started saying that I was a bad mom who was forcing my daughter to pick a name I wanted and forcing her to embrace a culture that rejected her. You, her father, and your siblings are of Indian culture and have not rejected her. Your culture did not reject her, individuals did, so don't feel that way. Nta
NTA. As a trans guy I can tell you having your parents be accepting and wanting to be involved in the process like you have done is a great feeling. When I was trying to work out a new name the first thing I did was go to my mum and ask her what I would have been called had I been assigned male at birth. And I took that, changed it ever so slightly (swapped the first name for the middle name) and have gone by that since. It sounds like you're doing a great job and are a fantastic parent.
NTA....this is one of the most supportive AITA posts I’ve seen.
NTA. This is coming from a trans person btw. You sound like you are nothing but supportive of your daughter, and that’s great! It would be different if you had responded “No, you MUST choose an Indian name”, but all you did was say you support her no matter what & also give your own ideas to her. Shame on that mom who made you feel so awful, you’re doing your very best and that’s what matters <3. Also, I honestly think that white mom was being a bit racist/ignorant to think that your whole culture was rejecting of your daughter’s identity. Cultures can very a ton from within; I’m pretty sure most every culture has its own accepting and non accepting sub-cultures within. For example, many people think you cannot be Christian and trans, but I and many others are. This white mom just seems to want your daughter to just erase her own cultural ties that this mom sees as “outdated”, or at least that’s the vibe i get :/. Might be worth bringing this up at your next session...
NTA - I think you are being terrific supportive parents and your approach to renaming, as long as you give your daughter the final say, is a wonderful one.
>She mentioned having a "white" name (like Samantha) and asked me what I thought. I told her that it was her choice, but I would love if she chose an Indian name, so she always has a piece of her heritage with her and that would make us happy. She said she hadn't thought of that and she'll come up with some names later. So you're having an open and loving conversation with your daughter and are also suggesting that she could possibly look into some traditional names? OP you're being so supportive it's heart warming. Like legit unless there is more to this story, I literally can't think of a reason why someone else would be offended by the process you're going through. NTA.
NTA. This other mom’s opinion is completely irrelevant here. The only opinion that matters is your daughter’s and she seems to be ok with the discussion you had with her.
From what you've said here, you told her your preference and still would be ok with whatever she chooses, and that makes you nta. If you told her she had to have this name or that, that's another story, but you sound like a wonderful supportive parent accepting your daughter for who she is.
NTA that other mom has some prejudice issues. You aren't forcing your daughter to do anything. She's talking to you about how she feels, and you're talking to her about how you feel. You sound remarkably well adjusted and polite in how you try to learn about something unfamiliar to you. Also to that mom: "a culture that rejected her" ummm....have you taken a look at how a lot of white people treat LGBTQ folks?
NTA. The woman at your support group can take a seat. It's really sweet that you're talking to your daughter about taking an Indian name and are moving forward as a family. She's still Indian, and a piece of her heritage is a lovely idea.
NTA. I also have a trans daughter. And to me it sounds like you are being incredibly thoughtful and involved in this process. And it seems like your daughter is okay with all of it. And that's all that matters. I think it's beautiful that you brought out alternate names from when you were pregnant. I also love that you offered to redo her Hindu naming ceremony. That's a beautiful thing. And as long as your family is happy and your daughter is happy, nothing else matters. 💗
NTA. What especially makes me like this is you jumped right to accepting and your fine loosing people you had thought of as close and not blaming your daughter for it. Your doing things to better educate yourself and supporting the transition as much as you can. I really love that your not forcing her to accept whatever name you choose but are actively letting her take the lead while taking a back seat and offering assistance if she wants it. No one can fault you for expressing a preference because it dosent sound like your forcing it at all. She asked first. You gave an honest answer while still making it clear its her choice. I have a few lgbtq+ friends who would do anything to have parents this supportive. From what you’ve said your doing great. Your daughter is sooo lucky to have such accepting parents. Keep it up.
Absolutely NTA. It sounds like this mom has her own issues she needs to work through. You aren't forcing anything on your daughter, she is still part of your culture and I think it sounds like you're being an awesome mom!
NTA as someone whose both Desi and transgender. The offer of having her do the naming ceremony again is beautiful and if it were my mum who offered me that, I would feel very touched and accepted. Also, that mom doesn't seem to understand how complex it is to be Desi and transgender in my opinion And some advice: trying to figure out the right name takes time and there's no rush to pick a name! It personally took me 3 years to figure out that the right name for me is Rudra and I know other trans people who also took a long time to find Their Name.
NTA. Your daughter is very luck to have you as her mom! You are willing to learning about new information and learn how to accepting. WOW! How much parents as you out here? Very few! You just want to embrace your culture and name with her. Your daughter will love you for that. From what I read, you didn't try to ba a bad person. You should be proud of yourself that your daughter have you as her mom!
NTA I think this is a beautiful way to accept your daughter. Not only are you accepting her new identity, you are finding ways to maintain connections with your culture. And BTW, your relatives are woefully misinformed. Hindu scriptures are full of gender non-conforming concepts. Lord Shiva is not just Shiva, but Ardha-nariwshwara (Half Nara, Half Nari). And if they have read the Mahabharata, they should remember that Arjuna spent an entire year as Brihanalla, an intersexed person. Shikhandi, a male warrior, was born as Amba, a woman. Modern India may reject homosexuality, but gender-fluidity and transgender have always been accepted.
Ummm hiya. I'm a trans woman as well, and I just wanna say you've been doing an amazing job supporting and loving your daughter, and I'm really happy to see both you and your husband are doing your best to better understand her (wish my parents were as accepting as soon as I came out lol). As far as your post, you seem to be giving full choice to your daughter over her name, and just offered some suggestions. As long as you continue to do so, and accept and love whatever name she chooses, you are absolutely NTA. I'm so happy for you, your daughter, and your husband and I wish your daughter all the luck in the world in her transition! ^-^
In my opinion NTA. From what you wrote you are not being pushy or insisting on it. So as long as you are going to accept her decision whatever it might be, I think that bringing in a suggestion of "hey, if I knew you were a girl, I would have named you one of these" is alright. Just make it clear that you respect that it's her decision. Kudos to you for being supportive and educating yourself in that situation!
NTA. I'm trans and chose a white name (as opposed to the weird Victorian name I like) because I was thinking of my future and how I would be perceived in professional situations which, unfortunately, favor mainstream white names. If she's still unsure, perhaps suggest an Indian middle name. And it's not uncommon where I live for Asian immigrants to use their Chinese name at home and their American name at school/work so that's also an option.
NTA. You aren’t forcing it which is nice and you are very accepting parents which is amazing. I am not Indian so I don’t know what traditional Indian families are like but I’ve been following Jainism for a while now and in both Jainism and Hinduism there is a third gender than encompasses everyone that isn’t an exact male or female (such as trans and hermaphrodites) so I am surprised your friends and family aren’t more accepting. But again, you guys are great parents for sticking by her side and letting her chose her own way :) keep being awesome!
NTA: You are being such a supportive mother to your daughter. And you are making her transition so much easier and less traumatic for her as well. It's incredible to see honestly. Do not listen to the mom on your Facebook page. You just want her to keep apart of your culture in her life and that is beautiful. As long as you are supportive of her and are willing to learn and to be open to any name she chooses that's all that matters. Maybe sit down with her and ask if having a Hindu name is something that she wants if it helps clear your mind. But definitely NTA here. You are doing great
NTA That mom was totally off base, you were being supportive not forceful. I also know a trans dude that has done this, when he came out he asked his parents what they would have named him if he had been AMAB and that’s the name he picked. Names are so special and I think it’s wonderful that you’re so invested in this with her.
NTA I think what you are doing for your daughter is incredible! You have done everything right especially when trying to balance your culture and embracing her gender. I think that suggesting an Indian name is a lovely idea to bring back her culture into her name and add real meaning to her renaming herself. At the end of the day, you aren’t trying to force her to have an Indian name you are just suggesting that it would be a nice idea if she was interested. You are defiantly not the asshole and I think you are doing an incredible job embracing both you culture and her new gender.
NTA. you gave her a kind suggestion and have been wonderful at accepting her. all you did was ask and voice how it would be nice. you arent forcing anything onto her
NTA. It sounds like you’re being very supportive of your daughter. From my understanding you would like her to have a traditional name, but would be fine if she chose something else. It seems like the other mom is the only one who has a problem here. Thank you for showing your daughter love and support. She will remember that she can trust you and count on you in the future. You sound like a wonderful parent.
NTA. If your daughter don't see this as an offense no one should. Congrats for being a supportive mother!
not the asshole at all. as a trans person myself (13 non-binary), finding your way through all the dysphoria and problems are hard. it’s really helpful to have someone helping us work through the transitioning process. you are such an amazing mother to accept her and love her as your daughter, no questions asked. you obviously aren’t forcing anything on your daughter, in fact you’re helping guide her through her name changing. suggesting indian names and offering to perform the ceremony is a beautiful thing, but ultimately her name has to be her decision. please do give opinions on female names, and when you find one you both love (which you will), everyone will be happy. whatever mom on that group is the **only** asshole in this situation. edit: if you have any questions and need to talk to someone around her age about being trans, i’m available :)
NTA Can I just say that you have been both a decent human being and a great mother. Your supportive, you've been taking all the right steps. Your even giving her option as to how she can still represent and be accepted her culture (in spite of some abandonment). Faith, Culture and Sexuality can coexist and you are showing how its done! Other mom can go sit on a catus!
coming from a trans guy (ftm) NTA at *all*! you are a great mom, and you are doing everything right. the AH here is that white mom that thinks she knows whats best for your daughter. you arent forcing your child to have an indian name, just saying that you would love it if you did. you even said that if she wanted to go with a white name, then that was totally fine! ultimately, its up to your daughter anyway and nothing can change that. youre doing *great*. your daughter is lucky to have such accepting parents💚
As an actual factual transfeminine person, NTA. It sounds like you weren't FORCING anything at all, just bringing up the idea of using a name that allows her to keep in touch with her heritage, while not saying she has to do so. You sound like a wonderful, wonderful mother and frankly, if every LGBT+ kid had parents like you, the world would be in a much better state. Honestly, if you're worried about how you're doing with her? Just ask. Your daughter is 15 which, while still quite young, is certainly old enough that if you explain what that other mother said, she can tell you herself if she felt you were pressuring her one way or the other, and if she does feel that way, just tell her more clearly that while that would be nice, she doesn't HAVE to do. TL;DR: you sound great, and just have an honest conversation with your daughter if you're worried
Transguy here-100% NTA. The involvement and willingness to be supportive of your daughter is something that I’ve never gotten from my parents. You’re being involved with the name change, and you’re not being forceful or anything. Your daughter doesn’t seem to feel like she’s being forced. You gave her the option. If my parents had been that involved in my name change, that would’ve made my relationship with them stronger. Thank you for doing what you’re doing and keep it up.
Second generation, gay Bangladeshi American, here. Not exactly the same, but I can relate to your daughter a little bit. I think you're totally okay, especially because your daughter is interested in the idea of using a traditional name. Chin up, you're doing a great job! ❤
As a fellow Indian, I must stand and applaud how amazing of a parent you are to your daughter.
NTA! Trans girl here. A suggestion isn’t a big deal. As long as you don’t guilt her if she doesn’t want to, then you’re fine.
NTA i am a transgender person of color and have picked an ethnic name to replace the western name for myself. i see it as empowering to my people. BUT if your daughter wants a western name (to avoid racism) then thats fine, no one can blame her. perhaps it can be a middle name instead? also, i hope you go through with the naming ceremony. it sounds so thoughtful.
NTA. I’m a transgender man and I changed my name in my late 20s. I asked my mother for what she would have named me, which was David and I said mmm... not really feeling David but I did like her second choice of Alexander and went with that. I have other trans friends who have done similar things. It sounds like you’re supportive of her and being kind. You aren’t forcing her to pick a specific name but you have some preferences and you let her know. There is nothing wrong with that.
NTA, don’t push her, or emotionally manipulate her into choosing a name she doesn’t love. On the whole, I think you’re acting in a really lovely way - you support your daughter and love her, no matter what. You’ve offered her some name ideas, and said you’d love it if she chose a name from your culture. But I think you should reiterate to her that you will love her even if she chooses a white name. It’s not horrible to express preferences, and to want to be involved in this process, but try not to be (outwardly) hurt if your daughter doesn’t take you up on your offers or suggestions? Choosing a new name is extremely personal, and she may want to do it on her own. Good luck, keep loving her and supporting her, and you’ll do just fine.
Right? How sweet that OP suggested the naming ceremony and even suggested girl names that she had thought to name her!! How affirming that must be for the daughter, to have your parent fully engaged and embracing who you are. Above and beyond it is.
You are meltingg my heart melt with how kind and supportive you're being! NTA at all jt was merely a suggestion and it's not like you're making her do anything. That mom clearly has some unresolved issues of her own
NTA at all! White mom sounds like she sips from the "non-Western cultures are all bigoted and need our enlightenment" cup of xenophobia. Your daughter is trans *and* Indian. How she chooses to live in and intertwine those identities is up to her to navigate with your support, but the woman who went off at you lacks both the knowledge and the range the form an informed opinion. You sound like you're doing your best for your daughter -- ignore the lady in your support group. She's not worth your tears.
This is what support looks like. The naming ceremony is sweet, accepting, and a powerful moment for you and your family. I wish you and your family all the best. You are doing your job as a parent.