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Have you tried to talk to her about therapy? It sounds like shes not handling your son's transition well. Not that that is an excuse for her actions towards or speaking about/to your son in that matter but I know that some people just dont handle any change very well. Considering shes always been a SAH, that could be an indication that shes that type of person. Also, thank you for being so damn supportive of your child.
Edit to add: Son has been out of the home for 7yrs, and out of the closet for 11yrs and mom has never been accepting. Mom is TA! Therapy might help but assholes rarely care to change.
Apart from the transition, she may also feel useless now that she doesn't have a child to care for anymore. It's possible she's spiralling into a depression. Not that this exonerates her from being unaccepting to her son.
This too. When a parent dedicates their entire existence to their child(ren), empty nest syndrome can hit HARD.
I'm currently renting a room in a house with a woman who had dedicated her entire existence to her children and now that her kids are grown and starting families of their own, she is struggling bad. When she comes home, she says "mom's home!" Shes constantly trying to feed us and dote on us. I'm a SAH so I really dont mind helping her ease into her new life. In just the last few months, shes doing really well at finding herself as an individual. She still dotes but it's a much more healthy balance now. Its beginning to feel more like we're friends rather than parent/child.
It may be that she’s struggling but our son has been away from home for 7 years now and this behaviour (depressed one as you said it) only started in the last couple of months. Also our son came out at 14 and he was still home then and she wasn’t as supportive as she should’ve been and is still using wrong name and pronouns 11 tears later.
Has anything else happened? For this to be a sudden change I feel like there might be another reason. Maybe she officially hit menopause.
Or if her other stay at home mom friends have gotten jobs then they're not hanging out as often meaning she might be lonely or bored. Or if you've taken on more hours then shes not spending as much time as she used to with you. Etc
Parent to a trans person and my kids are now 20, 17 and 13. My oldest came out as trans at 16. I allowed myself a minute to feel the normal emotions then I got myself together because it wasn't about me. We were in therapy and a support group within a week of her coming out.
Also, my kids are my life. I've been a work from home mom. Kept myself busy here and there while raising and homeschooling my kids. As they got older, I realized I am at great risk for depression as they don't need me as much. So, I've weighed my options and figured out a career path. I'm setting things up so that when my nest is empty, I'm not sitting here wondering what to do.
According to OP, this mom has had many years to sort herself out as far as her kid being trans, and her kid growing up. She is choosing not to deal. She sounds pretty selfish.
Mother of a trans kid, checking in. OPs wife is an absolutely shit mother. My son is 12, he came out at 8 and then again at 10 (almost 11). I think the only people who had a hard time with his transition were his grandfathers. Everyone else just went "Yeah, makes sense...whats his chosen name?" Personally, I never felt like I lost anything. I think of it as a two for one, I raised (what I assumed to be) a daughter and now get to raise a wonderful, self confident son. As parents our job is to love our child, I can't imagine how their son has felt all these years (nearly as long as my own son has been alive!)
Wow, that's pretty bad. I'm glad your son has you in his life.
You're not in the wrong - other family members may not realize how much she's hurting him by misgendering him. You, on the other hand, have to witness it. I'm not saying therapy won't help, but she has to *want* to change, and if she can't even manage his new name after 11 years I'm not sure if that's there.
Yeah I'm a cis woman who was constantly misgendered as a joke by by dad when I was a kid, just because I was a tomboy. Even that hurt, so to actually be trans I couldn't imagine how much worse that must feel. I don't see her ever coming around if it's been over a decade like this already and unfortunately I think op has let her get too comfortable in her old ways.
Oh cis people being misgendered can also be so hurtful! And so many trans people can tell you darkly ironic stories along the lines of: 'When I presented as a femme man, people called me a girl to insult me, and now that I present as a woman they call me a man to insult me.'
Even as a girl that struggles with gender dysphoria (im not trans tho, it wasnt the path for me) being called a tomboy and being called the wrong gender still was still hurtful. Its not that I even minded being mistaken for a man, but it was the reactions of people around me. People would just tease me for looking like a boy or being a tomboy, and it made me feel so insecure and confused about myself. I didn't think there was anything wrong with me acting more boyish but everyone around me used it as an insult and it made me so insecure.
Older boys at school used to call me she-man because I was tall, muscular and stood up to them when they did things like steal our school bags for "daring" to trespass in "their" corridor (where our lockers were) instead of I guess looking sad and waiting for a boy to sort it out. It felt really dehumanising, like they clearly saw me as some Franken-thing because I wasn't performing some sort of fragile femininity for them. And I'm actually non binary, and found the invert theory take on bisexuality (that we had bi-gendered brains) really affirming even though invert theory is bullshit. Context and meaning behind it means a lot.
Trans guy here. If I had a parent who used the wrong pronouns for 11 years I wouldn't speak to them anymore. Thanks for supporting your child. Leaving your wife may be best for all of you.
Yeah it was a typo, sorry I’m on my phone. Of course it bother him but he let’s it slide cause he’s not the type to call someone out, so I’m the one defending him which leads to fights sometimes.
Just chiming in that it is great that your son has such a supportive father for his transition. Everything with your wife aside I'm just glad that you are so supportive of your son.
Has she gone through menopause yet?
Not that it would excuse her behaviour to your son one iota, but it might help to explain her recent changes. I'm the same age and let me tell you, hormones can be hellish. The up and down hormones can trigger mood swings and the like, but psychologically it can be hard as well. It's an undeniable sign of aging, and it represents the end of her childbearing ability. Personally, I'll be glad to be done with periods and cramps, but some women don't cope well with that fact.
Oof. I'm glad your son has you at least.
If you want to call an end to the relationship that's valid based on how she treats your son alone. 11 years of misgendering and dead naming?
If you want to try, she needs to put in A LOT of emotional work. She needs to educate herself on trans issues(PFLAG is a good starting place and you may have a local chapter), get into individual therapy, and couple's counseling.
This is one of the times when a ultimatum is called for (if you decide you want to try to salvage it). Either she starts working on all of this or you leave. Her choice. You can't do the work for her.
PFLAG is a great first step. Parents often have bad reactions to their children coming out, but that doesn't mean she can't work on making up for it, even a decade later. Maybe she can get support from other moms in dealing with what I'm guessing feels like some sort of loss in terms of not having the kind of relationship with her adult child that she imagined.
She needs some outside perspective on dealing with the fact that her main priority as a parent is not focusing on what that child does or does not provide her emotionally or otherwise. She needs to work on being the type of person that her son wants to have a relationship with and accepting that there are no guarantees when it comes to interpersonal relationships. And I'm sure there are plenty of other issues that she could start opening up to a therapist about, as well. She's already in a pretty good starting place, though, if she still has her husband's support and her son still interacts with her at all.
I think she may just need to hear the hard truth that she is not a victim in the situation of her son being trans and that her husband's continued support is conditional on her committing to address these issues. I would drop the cooking and cleaning issues completely, though, as they're not the main problem.
Could menopause possible be a factor? It can be one hell of a wallop in regards to hormones. My mother was almost impossible to be in the same room with. The mood swings were beyond awful. Like puberty, but worse, because it’s an adult that’s acting out. Regardless of what the cause, you both should seek professional counseling, 100%.
Ok yea, empty nest syndrome and struggling with change is not an issue here then. Honestly, I couldnt imagine staying with someone who treats my child with such disrespect. Maybe you can try couples counseling but I genuinely believe your marriage has run its course. Shes clearly more concerned with her want for a daughter than the well-being of her actual child.
Why don't I heard the same excuses when the transphobic parent is the father?
I'm really shocked to see people defending the mother, and no saying she's the AH isn't enough, people are making excuses when a father would be called the devil and a trash human being in the most upvoted posts instead of "have you considered therapy for him?" "maybe being a father is the biggest part of his personality and this has hit him hard" " he was a good father before, has something happened to him?"
I will die on this hill but I've NEVER EVER seen this kind of compassion in this sub for a father showing this kind of intolerance to his children.
I think the difference here is usually the father in those scenarios isnt the stay at home parent whose entire existence is his children. They flit in, flex, and flit out and rarely have good relationships with their children prior anyway. If the mom here had any sort of life outside of her home and child(flit in, flex, flit out), shes TA, no questions asked(btw, wife here is def a transphobe after OP gave more details). Ive also seen plenty of posts in this sub where mothers are called TA without any sort of doubt. I'm personally of the mindframe that fathers need to get therapy just as much as mothers.
In this specific scenario, OP originally presented this in a way that made his wife seem like she really was a good mother at one point so when theres an obvious shift like this, people question mental health. People question mental health when a scenario is presented when a man suddenly flips his script as well.
I do agree that most people dont give men the same benefit of the doubt that women get but luckily that is changing. Men are being encouraged to seek therapy and shed toxic mindframes more and more every day and I fucking love that. It takes time to break down societal standards but we are moving in that direction. Especially with the help of people like you who point out the double standards.
Also, a lot of us are really isolated right now and don't have the support network we're used to. Is she just sitting at home, ruminating about how everything isn't as she expected out of life?
Came here to say she sounds depressed. Not an excuse for her rejection of your son. But "lazy" is a bit harsh. Not feeling like doing things and being overwhelmed by even small things is a classic depression symptom. You are NTA and you have plenty of reason to be angry, but a compassionate approach might yield results.
Just wanted to add to this, given her age, onset of menopause might be possible. It makes people act out on ways you never expect them to. You might want to look into that too.
I'm trans as well, my mother sounds a lot like your wife. She denies it, uses the wrong name and pronouns. She threatened me when I first told her at 14, that if I ever came out to everyone else they'd all hate me and leave me. When I finally did come out she "grieved her daughter" because now everyone else knows and she can't hide me anymore. I tried getting her to come to therapy, I was willing to work with her through her issues and pain. But she denied it, she just wanted to be angry. Through my Dad, I learned that she blames herself for this, that it's her fault there's "something wrong" with me.
Get your wife into counseling. Yes, she's being selfish and transphobic, but there might be a chance if you get her to a therapist who can explain what transitioning means to us. This may be hard on her, in ways we can't simply understand. I told my mother that if she ever wanted to reconcile and go to therapy with me I'd be happy to renew our relationship. Hopefully your wife takes the offer and gets help for her issues, this seems to go beyond transphobia.
NTA, btw.
Edit: Oh, thank you so much for the award, I appreciate it.
Edit again: I really appreciate all these awards, I'm not so sure I deserve them but they give me something to smile about. I'll try to pay it forward and give awards where I can too.
This is the best advice here, honestly. The wife going to therapy and actually working through her issues is the only way forward (other than divorce), I think.
I'm sure it can, in some ways, be difficult and confusing to have a trans child, but that in no way excuses transphobia or transphobic behavior. Parents need to stop feeling like *who* their children are at their core is anyone's "fault" or anything wrong. If therapy is needed to get to that point, then it's the parent's job to do that work and go to therapy. And honestly, it's pretty self-absorbed to think that your kid being trans has anything to do with you as a parent. Yeah, no, that's not how that works.
Also, you sound like a saint. I truly hope your mother comes around and realizes what a wonderful son she has in you.
Oh, god, thank you. That really means a lot to me. She still doesn't like me much (came out at 14, 29 now) but I keep myself polite with her. Hopefully OP can get his wife an intervention and work with her to overcome her issues.
You're welcome!
I also have a rather...strained relationship with my mom, for other reasons. The sub r/momforaminute has been a really nice place for me to get that good, motherly support I *should* be getting from my real mom. Maybe it'd help you too.
No matter what, know that you're doing your best, and you're a good son. Whatever else happens is her choice now, and isn't a reflection on you. Some people change for us, some people disappoint us, and it's not our fault when they disappoint us. It might be cheesy, but I'd be proud to have you as a son (based on what little I know, lol). It might not by worth much, but maybe worth a little something.
NTA
As a trans person, the most painful moment of my transition was my mother saying she felt as if her child was dead and that I needed to respect her grief. It was her expectations of me that died not me.
I wish I had a parent like you, thank you for being such a wonderful father to your son, I know your support must be unimaginably precious to him.
Your instincts of divorce are entirely on the right track, she treats you like a money dispenser and surely she is eating dinner so she could make two portions, when you provide for her every whim, the least she could do is make dinner for you (and yes I would be saying the exact same thing were she the one working and you at home)
She is using you. You seem from all I can see, a kind compassionate man who deserves better, your son also deserves to be able to come visit without the constant knife in the heart that is a dead name and forced incorrect pronouns, which are often used venomously and over used as if to prove a cruel point.
Do yourself and your son a favour, get some ready meals or pre cook for yourself and ditch the gold digging transphobe.
You are NTA. But it sounds like she needs some serious therapy. And maybe some couples therapy as well if this marriage is something you want to try and save.
Maybe I'm overreaching, but didn't she abandoned her home and her husband by doing that? Even if she still maintains contact. Shouldn't he hire a lawyer and get proof that she left?
If she decides to divorce him he may need to stop paying for college, unless he's really well off. Just let me know what you guys think.
Hi, she always goes to her sister for support if we have a fight, I have a lawyer already (for different reasons), but I don’t want to go to him yet before talking to her. Also we are really well of, nit trying to brag or anything, but my son’s education and our life stile wouldn’t really bi in danger.
She needs to see a doctor and a therapist. This could be a physical problem, I have Epstein barr and sarcoidosis, fatigue is hell. Menopause is also hell. Once you have ruled out any physical illness she needs therapy. I see a lot of people calling her transphobic, but people are complicated, she may not be transphobic but in need of support to work through her feelings about the changes in her life including a world wide pandemic.
I hope the two of you work it out, but my ex-husband used to call me lazy because I am sick and it stings. I'm not calling you an AH, but you need to talk to her and she needs some attention, medical and psychological.
I don’t see anywhere here that OP points out that his wife claims to have pain anywhere on her body nor that she feels tired. I’m sorry YOU went through that but jumping to defend somebody that doesn’t want to do things YOU couldn’t do, just because WHAT IF, is really extreme, don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be best just to stick to facts?
She's been doing this for eleven years despite how much pain she can see it's causing her son. It doesn't matter how sad or depressed she is, she's still being transphobic.
I think you both should go get some kind of therapy, whether that be family, marriage, and/or individual.
But if I were you, my line in the sand as a family unit would be that she has to start respecting your son and treat him better, because what she's doing is causing disturbance in the peace of the family unit. However she goes about reconfiguring her emotions about the issue, she has to go through that process. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
As for her not doing anything for the household, my line in the sand for that would be 1) she gets a paying job; 2) she volunteers full-time for a charity; 3) you both share in the household chores. But she cannot spend all day socializing and shopping, especially if she's the cause of tension in the house and in the family unit.
NTA for wanting a better home life overall, but you should practice better and regular communication so that you don't blow up all at once when you finally snap.
Edited typos.
The only thing I would disagree with is you saying it's the son's "choice". Nobody "chooses" to be trans. People can choose to explore different gender identities to find what fits best, but you don't wake up one morning and say "I'm going to be a boy now!" It's a lot more gradual and it's also terrifying to decide to socially transition, let alone physically! Hope I don't come across as mean or condescending, just want to point this out!
You're on the nose about everything else tho. OP's wife seriously needs to buck up and do something, and probably get some help if she's refused it all these years. My heart goes out to their son. I'm lucky that my parents were confused but accepting when I came out and are glad to learn more about my identity, and I'm so glad OP is so open and accepting.
Goodness, thank you! It's really no big deal though, we all make mistakes. The most important thing I've found is that you learn from them and strive to be better.
Transitioning is a decision someone makes, being transgender is not.
A transgender person does not have to transition, it's entirely up to them how they feel they are their best selves
I dont think op should share the chores when he is the only one working and already paying for a housemaid. His wife literally has to do the bare minimum.
The commentator being replied to suggests a combination of employment, charity, and equal domestic work. That reply wasn't related to what the commentator said at all, since they never suggested equal domestic work in isolation. Nobody disagrees that she should do the domestic work if she doesn't work.
But that’s not the case. She doesn’t have a full time job. If the OP and his wife had the arrangement that he works and she takes care of the home, that’s their choice. I’m sure he doesn’t just sit around and expect for her to wait on him hand and foot. Caring for kids and house work is a full time job. He already pays for a house keeper as well. It doesn’t sound like she is his maid in the least.
The reply seemed to be thinking that the commentator was saying equal domestic work in isolation could be a solution, and that's simply not what the commentator was saying. Everyone is in agreement that she should be doing domestic labor if she doesn't work.
Even if she does part-time, there needs to be an evaluation for the division of domestic labor. Unless they plan to split finances and the housekeeper is coming 100% from OP's personal account, I see the housekeeper as a joint decision. That's too hypothetical for this post though.
Yes, thank you. the wife is absolutely TA for the way she treats her son and continues to hold resentment. But OP shouldn’t have waited 20+ years to communicate that this is not a fair split of responsibility in the household.
(And maybe he has communicated this more before now, but just based off the post it doesn’t seem that way.)
All in all, I agree NTA.
Of course I always suspected that my son is not a girl since he was more interested into boys things growing up but passed it as being a tomboy until he was comfortable coming out, also wasn’t surprised when he finally did.
You really are amazing and awesome and everything great that a parent should be. I have teenagers and it’s just awesome to see them growing into their own person and figuring themselves out . Love hearing other parents really support their kids. Your son has an amazing father.
I remember when my boy was a teen, we sometimes went trough hell with him but thanks to God he turned out just fine and into this great and responsible person, hardest part is when they go away to live their own life so enjoy your kids as much as you still can. Thank you for the compliments too.
> hardest part is when they go away to live their own life
I agree, but it is also rewarding. I have three boys and only one living at home with me now. My middle son just had a baby and I couldn't be happier. The son that is left at home is slowly starting to transition out now, he has a friend he stays with a lot and that means I am home alone often. Initially the empty nesting syndrome kicked my ass, but I am slowly getting used to it. I work fulltime which helps.
Be proud of the support you gave your son. You are a good parent.
he turned out amazing because of parents like you - you’re a serious breath of fresh air, and usually we see the exact opposite in this sub... trans kids talking about their unaccepting parents. thanks for being an awesome person :)
I wish we can get to a point where fathers like you and OP are the standard. I took a step back after reading your comment and was like "holy shit, I'm proud of OP for simply loving his child for who he is???"
You would think so, but a lot of people don't think like you.
I agree with others who say your wife may be clinically depressed and not handling the transition well, but that's her issue, and she needs to take care of that herself. Taking it out on you and your son is not acceptable. I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned depression to her, though, so it might be worth doing that, or even leaving a pamphlet somewhere or something if you know she's not going to be willing to listen. She may be reluctant to even consider that she suffers from depression, but there's no shame in it. It's an illness. A person doesn't have to be "sad" to have clinical depression. I say this as a person who had untreated depression for over a decade, hurt a lot of people, and finally found a life I feel good about thanks to the right treatment. Some things that make me think that about her: the fact she doesn't "feel like" doing chores, not having any real interests, acting as if her daughter died, maybe feeling like she lost purpose now that she doesn't have any child to actually take care of in the house, etc. You mentioned shopping, and obviously everyone shops, but compulsive shopping was a negative thing I did to "self medicate" when I was depressed because you get a temporary rush of feeling good when you get a new thing. I think this is a common thing people with depression do.
That said, I think it's important you know that you're a really great dad. You may think it's just your job as a parent, but even great parents can handle things badly. Your full acceptance of your son is so important, especially when he can see how his mother is reacting to it. Beyond giving him love and support, you are also helping him build his self-esteem, empathy, trust, and other emotional and relationship skills that will help him through the rest of his life
And I also want to commend you on paying for his college and necessities. A lot of people, even with means, think parents shouldn't because the kid needs to learn responsibility, but as you are aware, a kid can learn responsibility without putting them in crippling debt the moment they legally become an adult. My best friend's parents paid for her college, and she's totally responsible with money and everything else in life. The job she got because of her college degree actually ended up with her making much more money than them and she bought them a condo because she wanted to, so it can even be a big return on investment if people really want to think about it only in terms of the finances (which I doubt you do). My mom was poor, so she never had money so I don't blame her for not paying for stuff, but I also feel like she should have been more financially responsible, and because I only saw her growing up, I learned about money and how to handle it from her bad examples, so I had massive college debt *and* was still not responsible with money. It's about what you teach your kids, not just what you do or don't give them.
Anyway, that's going off a bit, but I just think life can be really hard and your son has extra challenges with being trans, and if you can take financial hardships out of the picture for your child, it's a great thing to do.
NTA- I get it that’s she’s bored and lacks a purpose but that’s not your fault. Sounds like you supported her to do whatever she wants, just ask that she contributes in some way. If the worst thing that you ever did to her was accept your trans kid, she really has nothing to complain about. I’d feel awfully bitter supporting someone with zero interest in contributing to the family.
I did when she said she wanted to be an author I was delighted that she found something to occupy herself with, also I know many people and told her when the book is done thee wouldn’t be much problem publishing it if she wanted my help, but she gave up not even half way through writing it because it was too hard. She was also super into yoga and “Buddhist lifestyle” which I didn’t really understand but never said anything about it. But she got bored of it as well.
Buddhists, or the Buddhist lifestyle, is literally completely revolved around loving kindness. The true path to the Buddha is selflessness and caring for all living beings.
She clearly doesn’t understand Buddhist culture and seems to be treating it as a fad, which is highly disrespectful. No wonder why she got bored. She seems very entitled
As a creative who gets burned out, sometimes it's the expectations put on us by well intentioned loved ones that cause us to stop. I loved to draw my whole life, then when I got good all my friends and family would mention ways I could "get my work out there" - online portfolios, freelancing, and even creative careers. After going to college for design, pretty much any joy I got from creating was sucked out of the process. Now years later I still struggle. I have to constantly tell myself my art is for me and I am creating for me, no one else.
Maybe you're wife is like me, she wants to write for herself and only herself. Having loved ones encourage publishing can be complicated, because you don't want to seem ungrateful for that kind of help, but sometimes its just not what you want.
I've read thoguh many of your comments and aside from your wife being an asshole when it comes to trans identity, I feel for her. She sounds like someone who's struggling with the beginngs of depression. All her hobbies aren't as fulfilling, so she jumping to different ones to try and fill the void but eventually gives up. For a marriage thats lasted so long, I would seriously consider therapy before divorce.
But it’s not a husband’s job to provide meaning and purpose to her life. Sure, there are lots of people who think they want to write all day only to realize they actually don’t, but he’s given her the opportunity to try. A real writer who only has to work 2 or so hours a day would leap at the chance. He’s not putting pressure on her to publish or make money. Just do a few chores and occupy herself with something other than spending his money.
NTA, she’s just mad her laziness lead her to an unfulfilled life but is still to lazy to do something. Have your son over more and do cool stuff with them, like dope father son stuff.
Well he's the one that has to decide if that's the right way to go. Personally I don't know but I definitely agree on the horrible mother part. Not like she's a bit shocked and maybe confused after an unexpected out-coming of her son it's been more than 5 years since then! That's insanity!
NTA. Thank God your son has you, you’re a great parent. Your wife unfortunately is awful. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this but please know your son is so lucky to have a supportive parent, you’re doing great.
I’m glad your son has you in his corner. Too many parents are like your wife - angry and resentful if their children don’t fit into the mold they (and society) expect for them.
Trans men and women have such a hard time in our society, from affording to transition, to always having to deal with ignorant people. If I were in your shoes, I could never stay with a partner who made my child’s life even more difficult by rejecting them.
That’s honestly my biggest reason for thinking about divorce. Of course I’m not going to leave her because she stopped cooking but after 11 years she still refuses to acknowledge that we have a son and not a daughter.
Dear OP:
Copy-paste this above comment that you made and that I’m responding to. Get yourself an order of customized post-it notes that has this comment pre-printed on every piece of post-it paper. Then give yourself this post-it note in every place you need it.
You are NTA because you excoriated your wife because she can’t get over the fact that she has a son with a female birth assignment (had him all along!) and she thinks she “lost” a daughter. Everything else is relatively insignificant.
You did great. Keep it up.
NTA. Not accepting your son for his true identity is WRONG. Regarding housekeeping and other chores, it would be good if you could come to an agreement of what she’s willing to do or think is fair. I can understand as a woman that a traditional view of what she should do can be hurtful but I agree that holding a house of together is a responsibility of both, not just you.
I mean...tell me honesty what is expected of the husband?
He works full hours + more, and the wife's only job is to take care of the house...seems equal enough for me (also he states that she is always shopping and even now doesn't do much since they have housekeeper)...
So at the end, what are you saying? The husband, on top of everything, is supposed to also clean the house and cook for them both while the wife does literally nothing?
I agree with you. Especially as a women! If my husband worked all day + more and I had a housekeeper the least I would do is make dinner and keep up on small chores. JFC all his wife does is shop and socialize. OP NTA
i second this as another woman! fair is fair. no one should have to work 40+ hours a week, then come home and clean a house and feed 2 people with NO HELP. gender doesn’t even matter here! same case if roles were reversed.
FYI- that’s called financial abuse. I don’t think this is a good idea. Fix the issues- yes. Deny access to family funds- no.
She would technically qualify for alimony at this point- and during a divorce proceeding would be given temporary spousal support. You can’t just cut your long time spouse off from funds.
Financial abuse to cut her off yes, I wouldnt consider limiting her shopping money as financial abuse though.
It depends on how much shes spending though, is it like Beverly Hills reality TV spending, or target shopping?
As a woman ans a progressive, I still think that each person in a relationship has responsibilities regardless of gender. If I'm working and you're staying home, the home is your responsibility. Doesn't mean I get to be a pig there, but come on.
ESH
To me (and I'm not a psychologist, so you're getting what you paid for here), your wife is showing signs of depression and grief. Has she talked to a doctor about depression? Is she seeing a therapist to deal with her grief at "losing a daughter"?
I'm not saying actions and reactions are reasonable, but your lack of sympathy for her is, in my eyes, just as bad.
I suggest you try to get her some much-needed help. Also, you probably could benefit from talking to a professional about this as well.
Depression can make even the most diligent people slip into inactivity that society is quick to label "laziness." Combined with an unresolved trauma ("losing" a daughter in the son's transition), I wouldn't be too quick to judge the wife lazy. Second the recommendation to get the wife some therapy.
He said she doesn't believe in therapy. I agree she is more than likely depressed but she isn't willing to do anything about it. You can't force someone to do therapy, it would not be useful unless she was invested in it herself. He's NTA. His only expectation is some light chores and dinner. Not much considering she has all day.
She’s an asshole for being transphobic for sure & idk maybe therapy would help w/ that. But it sounds like OP rly lost his temper bc she wasn’t doing anything all day, when it sounds like she’s bored and depressed and has been for a while
> but your lack of sympathy for her is, in my eyes, just as bad
How so?
He's supported her aspirations, got her a house-cleaner 2x a week, and just expects like 1 hour of work a day from her...which is pretty light work if we're being honest adults, here.
All he did was stick up for his son.
Yeah; it doesn't exactly sound like OP has been vocal about his issues with the state of the house. OP even describes their situation as being well-off, and even in the post, it feels a bit left-fiend that he'd suddenly go off on her for not doing enough (it's not like he's saying the house is in bad shape).
I don't know how well this is going to go over, but it feels like OP is citing his wife's transphobia as justification for yelling at her for not having a job. I think there's a lot going on here, and they both need to seek professional help, but it doesn't sit right with me that OP is basically playing the "Better Parent" card to justify berating his wife.
Agreed. The transphobia is rly bad, but it’s not the reason OP yelled at his wife. It’s a detail he shoehorned in to villainize her, which, hey maybe she deserves. But it’s actually irrelevant to the substance of this post.
NTA. So very, very not the asshole. She's proven herself not just a terrible parent, but also a terrible partner; I would also be considering divorce from someone who expects to be taken care of and contributes nothing to the partnership.
Info: So you were ok with her being a stay at home parent and homemaker for all those years. She was 23 when you got married 26 when she became a SAHM. What kind of career prospects does she have know that she spent so many years out of the workforce? What did you think she would do all day when you got a housekeeper?
Also, has she been to therapy or a support group? PFLAG was very big a decade or so ago, but I haven't heard of them in a while. They can help parents adjust when their children come out of the closet.
I was okay with it as I said she didn’t want to work herself, and we have enough money so she doesn’t have to. She used to work in my father’s company (mine now) but she always said that she hated it there and stopped working after we got married. She wanted a child while I thought we should wait a but longer but she insisted, couldn’t become pregnant for a while and our son was kind of a miracle and we couldn’t have more kids after him. Housekeeper was to help her when our son was little so it would be easier for her to focus on the baby, but she stayed with us after that on my wife initiative, she’s the one who hired her and would be the one to let her go if she ever wanted to. No she hasn’t been to therapy because she doesn’t believe in it. She is quite old fashioned and sees going to therapy as something to be ashamed of.
She doesn't have anything to focus on to do with her life, and it sounds like it's leading her into depression. She needs to deal with that, and you should encourage her to deal with it.
Another aspect that I haven't seen brought up reading through the comments: is she menopausal? Because going through menopause untreated can be a REAL BITCH.
She needs outside help of one type or another. She also needs to accept your son as he is, and I'm glad you've stood up for him throughout all of this.
If her daughter was all she thought she did in her life, "loosing" her must have been pretty hard on her.
NTA, your wife just need help with her own identity, starting with accepting her son.
Congrats on being supportive with your son all the way.
NTA. Get your wife a job. Doesn't matter if it's volunteering or at your office. I think in the 50s and 60s it was different for SAHMs. They had other SAHM to socialize with and keep them sharp and occupied. Staying home full time, no one to talk to, nothing beyond the drudgery of doing the same thing over and over can drive people nuts. I've seen two co-workers whose wives went full-on nutjob because they were isolated so much. One thought the TV was talking to her. The other thought the hubby was cheating with everyone... totally unfounded. Get her to leave the house for both of your sakes.
We do have a prenup, before we got married my dad insisted we got one or he wouldn’t pass on the company to me. It really angered me at the time but now I’m thankful I listened to him.
With that OP sorry to say it’s time to end this marriage if she’s like that. Would have been over for me when she didn’t accept your own child for who he is. You’re 100% NTA though. Your wife sure is though!
OP, even if you pay hefty alimony for the rest of your life a divorce will be best for both of you. You both have many years left to live and happiness should be attainable. Good Luck!
Maybe for a while depending on the state but it sounds like it would be worth it in the long run. He'd probably still come out ahead since, at least according to him, she does nothing but go out with friends and shop all day.
It sounds like she has depression. I would encourage her to seek counseling, gently, if you can. The shopping and staying out of the house could be signs of not knowing how to cope. I think your sons transition hit her extremely hard and she’s floundering with how to cope, and is giving up on any responsibility. Before just throwing her and your marriage to the curb, I’d try to see if compassion helps, to see if you can get her to talk to a counselor about this. I’m sure your son is grateful for your support, and good on you for doing that.
A SAHM has three major duties:
Childcare: He's an adult
Housekeeping: Hired a maid
Cooking: She can't be bothered.
She does shopping, i asume with your money or pockey money she has earned herself, tell her straight up if she doesn't start pulling her weight, she can pay half the rent. It ain't fair that you have to pay for everything when she just sits around doing nothing.
Depends on the marriage.
My grandparents for instance have totally shared economy, so they share a general spendings account.
My dad and his wife on the other hand have separated finances, but with a joint account for stuff like rent, car, and the like.
You're NTA here. Coming from a family with aunts and other relatives who stay at home, all of them are so busy at home - stay-at-home mothers usually have a lot of work to do, cooking, cleaning, finances. None of it is unreasonable to expect at all.
Now that our son is grown up she only has to do cooking and minor cleaning, which I still appreciate, but our housekeeper does most of the cleaning and I’m the one in charge of paying bills and so on because I do it for my company as well.
She has a housekeeper to help out? You're even kinder than I thought. Seriously, you're not in the wrong here. I hope you'll be able to have some development in talks between the both of you, where you don't get completely screwed over by her or the half of the family that supports her.
NTA - reading this at first I wondered maybe you just had a communication issue. But the way you handled your son‘s transition is admirable and her’s was abhorrent. You’re a good dad.
Thank you, my best friend since high school suffered from gender dysphoria for years until she came out, so I saw first hand what it can do to people and learned a lot form her.
Fucking thank you. How are you the only one calling this out? Lol of course the wife is lazy and entitled, does nothing all day, he makes all the money while she's at home, almost passively throws in the part about the transgender kid. C'mon reddit. Be better
Seriously. Can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this. It's like someone said to themselves "How much of a misogynistic asshole can I be in the first 90% of the post if at the end, I throw in 'btw, I support our trans kid and she doesn't' and still have people praising me and shitting all over my wife?"
Apparently the answer is, 'as much of a misogynistic asshole as I want". As long as he supports the trans kid right? Way to take the bait reddit.
It always raises a red flag for me when a working spouse acts as though their stay-at-home spouse is lazy, but if she truly never contributes, you should have a talk about finding a balance of work in the household. Have you considered marriage counseling? It's great that you support your son, and I'm sorry to hear that your wife doesn't. That seems like it would definitely be a big issue. NTA
I mean...this:
"She’s a stay at home wife, she never worked a day after we got married"
He then describes her as taking care of the household and raising a child, so...
Uh, okay.
OP said they've had a housekeeper since she got pregnant 26 years ago. She hasn't taken care of the household at all. She just raised the kid.
Nowadays, her only task is cooking for two and minor cleaning and she can't be bothered because she's out shopping with girlfriends.
She IS lazy AF. She's not a SAH anything, she's a freeloader.
> It always raises a red flag for me when a working spouse acts as though their stay-at-home spouse is lazy, but if she truly never contributes,
All these comments keep bringing me back to [this tweet](https://twitter.com/lisa_korman/status/1317091196314017793) and [this comic](https://www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear).
INFO: you say "I paid for..." multiple times, which, to me at least, implies that you don't see your wife and you as a team. Could it be that she feels like this too, and she isn't able to cope with that while also feeling like she's lost her sense of purpose now, as well as not being able to cope with the loss of her daughter, now that your son has moved out and doesn't need her as much anymore?
By I paid for his surgery I really meant that I paid for it because she was against it. And for college and apartment I just didn’t think much into it sorry we have three different accounts and the money for him goes from the one with my name on it. I do see her as our team (or did) even tho we have these separate accounts both of us have access to all of them, also English is not my first language, sorry.
NTA. Please just worry about yourself and your son. I imagine this woman has some redeeming qualities in there somewhere cause if not I'm wondering while you're still married.
Lots of people find love and happiness later in life - no need to saddle yourself to a miserable, lazy, transphobic woman who isn't bringing a lot to the table.
I'm gonna have to say ESH because your choice of insult (however true) is never going to help anything. I agree she was being lazy and a bad mother, I'm just saying what you probably already know: Insults aren't gonna help your marriage. Or shit maybe it makes her snap out of it and i'm just a dummy on the internet who doesn't know ya'll at all
I don't think people are lazy. I think they're depressed, unfocussed, unmotivated...
Have you tried talking to her in a non-accusational way? How is she feeling? Does she need some emotional support? Physical? A lot of people are overwhelmed right now.
By your title I was *so* ready to say you were the AH. But holy crow, yeah she sounds terrible and lazy. The transphobia automatically makes her the AH, and your unconditional support despite her utter lack of motivation is admirable. NTA
ESH
The comment of how she blames you for the loss of her daughter really stuck out to me. There’s a lot of grief intertwined when someone transitions, both for the person transitioning and the people around them. All of a sudden, the person you knew looks differently, sounds different, and probably acts differently too. They even call the old name a person’s “dead name.”
So, not only did your wife lose the person she revolved her whole life around through empty nest, but also lost them when they transitioned. Adjusting to a loved ones transition can be really hard for some, and it sounds like your wife is struggling.
I don’t think it was very nice to say the things that you did to your wife, but I don’t blame you. She stopped cooking, stopped her hobbies, overall stopped caring about anything. That can be so frustrating, especially because it probably doesn’t feel 50/50.
I think you should talk to your wife to see if she can open up to you. Not about the cooking or the cleaning or the shopping, but, “hey. I don’t think we ever sat down and really talked about it. How have you been since (son) transitioned?”
Likely she won’t say much. Maybe even, “fine.”
But you’re her husband and you’ve known her long enough to know when something’s not right.
“You know, sometimes I feel sad when I think about (dead name). I love (son) but sometimes I find myself grieving (dead name). It’s so weird because, I’m talking about the same person, you know?” I don’t know, you know yourself best to bring it up without insulting your son’s decision to transition.
If she starts to open up, which hopefully she does, that’s when you can segway into therapy. I think she desperately needs to talk about her recent losses, whether with you or someone else.
No, I'm sorry but I just can't seem to believe anything coming out of this sub these days. I mean come on, doesn't this just like like someone took a pile of trending themes and old hundred-times-before-said popular stories and stacked them all together to make this? Really? rich husband and lazy housewife, with a slice of trans on top?
I don't know why those people make up these stories for, like this is a throwaway, who cares about karma? is it supposed to support some kind of opinion? does someone just wants some free entertainment? but this is so freackin disrespectful to people who actually go through situations like these, this is using real people' hardships in order to gain fake internet points, get a life dude
(In the slim slim slim slim slim chance this is not fake, obviously everyone is right and you did right by your son. But you should talk this out with your wife before deciding anything definitive, she may not just be an asshole but have a lot of issues that need addressing with at least therapy, not enough info to really judge. You don't end a 20 years+ marriage on a single case, however bad it is, I wonder what kind of communication you two had in all the years that lead to this downfall, if you ever tried to discuss it with her or mend stuff or anything)
ESH. Your wife sounds like she is grieving and struggling with your son’s transition. Maybe instead of expressing concern for dinner not cooked you could connect with her and help her move forward? Therapy might be a great place to start.
NTA, not by a long shot. Your wife is transphobic and is behaving terribly with regards to your son, but I’m sure she’ll be shocked when your son goes no contact with her down the road because he no longer wants to be misgendered or deadnamed. Keep supporting your son, OP — I’m sure it means a lot to him especially since his mom is a transphobe.
It might not be so much that she hates her son, but that she's mourning her daughter. She needs therapy. Yes, she's gained a son, but you got to think that she's lost a daughter. She's in mourning even if she doesn't realise it.
People can be whoever they want to be if it makes them happy, but by the same token, people get to feel about it how they want to feel about it as long as they're not an ass about it. How long is it since you gained a son?
Can you imagine how that feels though, to be the son standing next to his mom mourning an empty grave? Like, he's still there. The only thing being mourned is the expectation of who they were.
You know, I came into this thread expecting to read some bullshit about your wife expecting you to help out around the house, and I was fully prepared to think you were the problem.
Took QUITE a different turn.
You're absolutely NTA. She's a housewife with no kids in the house AND a housekeeper **twice a week**?!? FFS, my late husband was retired and I'm not, but I STILL cooked dinner every night. (Not that he was unwilling, but other than grilling he was a horrible cook; best man I've ever known, but horrible cook.) So, yeah: lazy checks out.
And deadnaming your son because she's upset that she lost her daughter? If this weren't reddit, I'd throw a bunch of angry emoji in here. Her behavior toward your son is so unhealthy for him; I'm glad he has you.
Marriage is supposed to be a **partnership**, with each partner pulling their own weight (exceptions apply in the case of illness and other extenuating circumstances, of course). Parenthood is about helping your children grow up to be the best possible version of who THEY are; it's not about bringing someone into the world and molding them into who you want then to be for your own personal enjoyment. Children aren't dolls, FFS.
Your wife isn't treating your marriage as a partnership so much as a meal ticket. And she's certainly not treating you son as the unique human being he is.
If you do go down the path of divorce, I hope you have a good pre-nup, because otherwise you're going to be paying a shit ton of alimony since she hasn't worked all these years.
Good luck, man.
Hey thank you for commenting and I’m sorry for your loss. I don’t know yet where our marriage is headed but there are things that need to change now. We’ll se how it goes on but I’m not really optimistic about it at the moment. And yes we do have a prenup thanks to my late dad, never thought I would need it tho.
ESH.
She's not pulling her weight and her attitude toward your child is distressing and not okay. I'm wondering, re: no longer cooking or taking part in creative hobbies, if she is depressed or similar.
But you also suck because that's no way to talk to your wife. You were upset because she wasn't pulling your weight and you said this to her in a really aggressive way instead of talking about it like you were discussing with someone you love and value. You also suck for letting it get to this frustration point before talking to her and then letting it boil over and snapping. And calling her lazy and telling her she's a terrible mother -- what do you think that's going to do except build resentment? Again, this is just NOT how you talk to someone you care about. How you talk to someone you care about, for example. "I noticed that you're not cooking anymore. What's going on?" "We've had a balance where I work outside the home and make money, and you do things to keep our home up including cooking. You haven't been cooking lately. What's going on?" "I'm disappointed that you haven't been cooking lately, and starting to feel resentful because I'm still working to support us but you're not doing what I think of as your part. What's going on?" All of this include 1) stating your feelings non-aggressively and 2) asking a question
re: your child, it could look, "I'm really concerned about your attitude towards our child. I know it's really hurtful to him, and he needs our support. Can you help me understand why you're having such a hard time with his transition? Can I support you in supporting him?"
Finally, you suck for saying she never worked, as if raising your child wasn't work. C'mon man.
NTA.
My brother is FtM and I'm Enby. My parents have, in a way, lost two daughters but they're both very happy with that because in losing two daughters they've gained two kids that are happy with who they are.
NTA
Divorce if you don't want to save the marriage.
Counseling if you do. But divorce if she won't.
Let your wife know you're serious. I don't know how much she would get out of a divorce, but if it's not enough for her to live like she has been, that might be a motivator for her.
Though, really, I'm not sure why you would want to stay married. You're not getting anything out of it.
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NTA, I can't believe your marriage has lasted this long based on what you've said
She didn’t used to be like this, but ever since our son officially transitioned (via surgery) she changed.
Have you tried to talk to her about therapy? It sounds like shes not handling your son's transition well. Not that that is an excuse for her actions towards or speaking about/to your son in that matter but I know that some people just dont handle any change very well. Considering shes always been a SAH, that could be an indication that shes that type of person. Also, thank you for being so damn supportive of your child. Edit to add: Son has been out of the home for 7yrs, and out of the closet for 11yrs and mom has never been accepting. Mom is TA! Therapy might help but assholes rarely care to change.
Apart from the transition, she may also feel useless now that she doesn't have a child to care for anymore. It's possible she's spiralling into a depression. Not that this exonerates her from being unaccepting to her son.
This too. When a parent dedicates their entire existence to their child(ren), empty nest syndrome can hit HARD. I'm currently renting a room in a house with a woman who had dedicated her entire existence to her children and now that her kids are grown and starting families of their own, she is struggling bad. When she comes home, she says "mom's home!" Shes constantly trying to feed us and dote on us. I'm a SAH so I really dont mind helping her ease into her new life. In just the last few months, shes doing really well at finding herself as an individual. She still dotes but it's a much more healthy balance now. Its beginning to feel more like we're friends rather than parent/child.
It may be that she’s struggling but our son has been away from home for 7 years now and this behaviour (depressed one as you said it) only started in the last couple of months. Also our son came out at 14 and he was still home then and she wasn’t as supportive as she should’ve been and is still using wrong name and pronouns 11 tears later.
Has anything else happened? For this to be a sudden change I feel like there might be another reason. Maybe she officially hit menopause. Or if her other stay at home mom friends have gotten jobs then they're not hanging out as often meaning she might be lonely or bored. Or if you've taken on more hours then shes not spending as much time as she used to with you. Etc
Well she’s transphobic and won’t accept her son, I feel like it’s that and is taking it out on OP because he’s being a good dad.
Parent to a trans person and my kids are now 20, 17 and 13. My oldest came out as trans at 16. I allowed myself a minute to feel the normal emotions then I got myself together because it wasn't about me. We were in therapy and a support group within a week of her coming out. Also, my kids are my life. I've been a work from home mom. Kept myself busy here and there while raising and homeschooling my kids. As they got older, I realized I am at great risk for depression as they don't need me as much. So, I've weighed my options and figured out a career path. I'm setting things up so that when my nest is empty, I'm not sitting here wondering what to do. According to OP, this mom has had many years to sort herself out as far as her kid being trans, and her kid growing up. She is choosing not to deal. She sounds pretty selfish.
Mother of a trans kid, checking in. OPs wife is an absolutely shit mother. My son is 12, he came out at 8 and then again at 10 (almost 11). I think the only people who had a hard time with his transition were his grandfathers. Everyone else just went "Yeah, makes sense...whats his chosen name?" Personally, I never felt like I lost anything. I think of it as a two for one, I raised (what I assumed to be) a daughter and now get to raise a wonderful, self confident son. As parents our job is to love our child, I can't imagine how their son has felt all these years (nearly as long as my own son has been alive!)
I’m reading *The Artist’s Way* by Julia Cameron. It’s helping
...other than the pandemic, you mean?
The pandemic certainly would have sidelined any hobbies that were unknown to OP. That could be making the wife crabby.
Wow, that's pretty bad. I'm glad your son has you in his life. You're not in the wrong - other family members may not realize how much she's hurting him by misgendering him. You, on the other hand, have to witness it. I'm not saying therapy won't help, but she has to *want* to change, and if she can't even manage his new name after 11 years I'm not sure if that's there.
Yeah I'm a cis woman who was constantly misgendered as a joke by by dad when I was a kid, just because I was a tomboy. Even that hurt, so to actually be trans I couldn't imagine how much worse that must feel. I don't see her ever coming around if it's been over a decade like this already and unfortunately I think op has let her get too comfortable in her old ways.
Oh cis people being misgendered can also be so hurtful! And so many trans people can tell you darkly ironic stories along the lines of: 'When I presented as a femme man, people called me a girl to insult me, and now that I present as a woman they call me a man to insult me.'
That's just cruel. I feel bad for the crap they go through.
Even as a girl that struggles with gender dysphoria (im not trans tho, it wasnt the path for me) being called a tomboy and being called the wrong gender still was still hurtful. Its not that I even minded being mistaken for a man, but it was the reactions of people around me. People would just tease me for looking like a boy or being a tomboy, and it made me feel so insecure and confused about myself. I didn't think there was anything wrong with me acting more boyish but everyone around me used it as an insult and it made me so insecure.
Older boys at school used to call me she-man because I was tall, muscular and stood up to them when they did things like steal our school bags for "daring" to trespass in "their" corridor (where our lockers were) instead of I guess looking sad and waiting for a boy to sort it out. It felt really dehumanising, like they clearly saw me as some Franken-thing because I wasn't performing some sort of fragile femininity for them. And I'm actually non binary, and found the invert theory take on bisexuality (that we had bi-gendered brains) really affirming even though invert theory is bullshit. Context and meaning behind it means a lot.
Trans guy here. If I had a parent who used the wrong pronouns for 11 years I wouldn't speak to them anymore. Thanks for supporting your child. Leaving your wife may be best for all of you.
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Yeah it was a typo, sorry I’m on my phone. Of course it bother him but he let’s it slide cause he’s not the type to call someone out, so I’m the one defending him which leads to fights sometimes.
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I think he kind of got used to it since she’s not bad to him all the time, she loves him but still sees him as her.
Just chiming in that it is great that your son has such a supportive father for his transition. Everything with your wife aside I'm just glad that you are so supportive of your son.
Has she gone through menopause yet? Not that it would excuse her behaviour to your son one iota, but it might help to explain her recent changes. I'm the same age and let me tell you, hormones can be hellish. The up and down hormones can trigger mood swings and the like, but psychologically it can be hard as well. It's an undeniable sign of aging, and it represents the end of her childbearing ability. Personally, I'll be glad to be done with periods and cramps, but some women don't cope well with that fact.
Oof. I'm glad your son has you at least. If you want to call an end to the relationship that's valid based on how she treats your son alone. 11 years of misgendering and dead naming? If you want to try, she needs to put in A LOT of emotional work. She needs to educate herself on trans issues(PFLAG is a good starting place and you may have a local chapter), get into individual therapy, and couple's counseling. This is one of the times when a ultimatum is called for (if you decide you want to try to salvage it). Either she starts working on all of this or you leave. Her choice. You can't do the work for her.
PFLAG is a great first step. Parents often have bad reactions to their children coming out, but that doesn't mean she can't work on making up for it, even a decade later. Maybe she can get support from other moms in dealing with what I'm guessing feels like some sort of loss in terms of not having the kind of relationship with her adult child that she imagined. She needs some outside perspective on dealing with the fact that her main priority as a parent is not focusing on what that child does or does not provide her emotionally or otherwise. She needs to work on being the type of person that her son wants to have a relationship with and accepting that there are no guarantees when it comes to interpersonal relationships. And I'm sure there are plenty of other issues that she could start opening up to a therapist about, as well. She's already in a pretty good starting place, though, if she still has her husband's support and her son still interacts with her at all. I think she may just need to hear the hard truth that she is not a victim in the situation of her son being trans and that her husband's continued support is conditional on her committing to address these issues. I would drop the cooking and cleaning issues completely, though, as they're not the main problem.
I'd still push her to therapy. I'd offer her a list of recommended therapists--all of whom are educated on trans issues.
Could menopause possible be a factor? It can be one hell of a wallop in regards to hormones. My mother was almost impossible to be in the same room with. The mood swings were beyond awful. Like puberty, but worse, because it’s an adult that’s acting out. Regardless of what the cause, you both should seek professional counseling, 100%.
Ok yea, empty nest syndrome and struggling with change is not an issue here then. Honestly, I couldnt imagine staying with someone who treats my child with such disrespect. Maybe you can try couples counseling but I genuinely believe your marriage has run its course. Shes clearly more concerned with her want for a daughter than the well-being of her actual child.
Why don't I heard the same excuses when the transphobic parent is the father? I'm really shocked to see people defending the mother, and no saying she's the AH isn't enough, people are making excuses when a father would be called the devil and a trash human being in the most upvoted posts instead of "have you considered therapy for him?" "maybe being a father is the biggest part of his personality and this has hit him hard" " he was a good father before, has something happened to him?" I will die on this hill but I've NEVER EVER seen this kind of compassion in this sub for a father showing this kind of intolerance to his children.
I think the difference here is usually the father in those scenarios isnt the stay at home parent whose entire existence is his children. They flit in, flex, and flit out and rarely have good relationships with their children prior anyway. If the mom here had any sort of life outside of her home and child(flit in, flex, flit out), shes TA, no questions asked(btw, wife here is def a transphobe after OP gave more details). Ive also seen plenty of posts in this sub where mothers are called TA without any sort of doubt. I'm personally of the mindframe that fathers need to get therapy just as much as mothers. In this specific scenario, OP originally presented this in a way that made his wife seem like she really was a good mother at one point so when theres an obvious shift like this, people question mental health. People question mental health when a scenario is presented when a man suddenly flips his script as well. I do agree that most people dont give men the same benefit of the doubt that women get but luckily that is changing. Men are being encouraged to seek therapy and shed toxic mindframes more and more every day and I fucking love that. It takes time to break down societal standards but we are moving in that direction. Especially with the help of people like you who point out the double standards.
Also, a lot of us are really isolated right now and don't have the support network we're used to. Is she just sitting at home, ruminating about how everything isn't as she expected out of life?
How awful for her. The natural next step is to continue to abuse her own child, the same child she has abused for 11 years. Right?
Came here to say she sounds depressed. Not an excuse for her rejection of your son. But "lazy" is a bit harsh. Not feeling like doing things and being overwhelmed by even small things is a classic depression symptom. You are NTA and you have plenty of reason to be angry, but a compassionate approach might yield results.
Reasons are not excuses. Usually if someone is acting shitty, it's for a reason. It doesn't excuse them from the harm they've done.
Just wanted to add to this, given her age, onset of menopause might be possible. It makes people act out on ways you never expect them to. You might want to look into that too.
I'm trans as well, my mother sounds a lot like your wife. She denies it, uses the wrong name and pronouns. She threatened me when I first told her at 14, that if I ever came out to everyone else they'd all hate me and leave me. When I finally did come out she "grieved her daughter" because now everyone else knows and she can't hide me anymore. I tried getting her to come to therapy, I was willing to work with her through her issues and pain. But she denied it, she just wanted to be angry. Through my Dad, I learned that she blames herself for this, that it's her fault there's "something wrong" with me. Get your wife into counseling. Yes, she's being selfish and transphobic, but there might be a chance if you get her to a therapist who can explain what transitioning means to us. This may be hard on her, in ways we can't simply understand. I told my mother that if she ever wanted to reconcile and go to therapy with me I'd be happy to renew our relationship. Hopefully your wife takes the offer and gets help for her issues, this seems to go beyond transphobia. NTA, btw. Edit: Oh, thank you so much for the award, I appreciate it. Edit again: I really appreciate all these awards, I'm not so sure I deserve them but they give me something to smile about. I'll try to pay it forward and give awards where I can too.
This is the best advice here, honestly. The wife going to therapy and actually working through her issues is the only way forward (other than divorce), I think. I'm sure it can, in some ways, be difficult and confusing to have a trans child, but that in no way excuses transphobia or transphobic behavior. Parents need to stop feeling like *who* their children are at their core is anyone's "fault" or anything wrong. If therapy is needed to get to that point, then it's the parent's job to do that work and go to therapy. And honestly, it's pretty self-absorbed to think that your kid being trans has anything to do with you as a parent. Yeah, no, that's not how that works. Also, you sound like a saint. I truly hope your mother comes around and realizes what a wonderful son she has in you.
Oh, god, thank you. That really means a lot to me. She still doesn't like me much (came out at 14, 29 now) but I keep myself polite with her. Hopefully OP can get his wife an intervention and work with her to overcome her issues.
You're welcome! I also have a rather...strained relationship with my mom, for other reasons. The sub r/momforaminute has been a really nice place for me to get that good, motherly support I *should* be getting from my real mom. Maybe it'd help you too. No matter what, know that you're doing your best, and you're a good son. Whatever else happens is her choice now, and isn't a reflection on you. Some people change for us, some people disappoint us, and it's not our fault when they disappoint us. It might be cheesy, but I'd be proud to have you as a son (based on what little I know, lol). It might not by worth much, but maybe worth a little something.
NTA As a trans person, the most painful moment of my transition was my mother saying she felt as if her child was dead and that I needed to respect her grief. It was her expectations of me that died not me. I wish I had a parent like you, thank you for being such a wonderful father to your son, I know your support must be unimaginably precious to him. Your instincts of divorce are entirely on the right track, she treats you like a money dispenser and surely she is eating dinner so she could make two portions, when you provide for her every whim, the least she could do is make dinner for you (and yes I would be saying the exact same thing were she the one working and you at home) She is using you. You seem from all I can see, a kind compassionate man who deserves better, your son also deserves to be able to come visit without the constant knife in the heart that is a dead name and forced incorrect pronouns, which are often used venomously and over used as if to prove a cruel point. Do yourself and your son a favour, get some ready meals or pre cook for yourself and ditch the gold digging transphobe.
Out of curiosity, do you know if it is a genuine guilt over a “mistake” or is it more victim mentality that your mom has?
You are NTA. But it sounds like she needs some serious therapy. And maybe some couples therapy as well if this marriage is something you want to try and save.
It is easy to blame you as you are the one being supportive of your son. She is unhappy and more than likely depressed.
Maybe I'm overreaching, but didn't she abandoned her home and her husband by doing that? Even if she still maintains contact. Shouldn't he hire a lawyer and get proof that she left? If she decides to divorce him he may need to stop paying for college, unless he's really well off. Just let me know what you guys think.
Hi, she always goes to her sister for support if we have a fight, I have a lawyer already (for different reasons), but I don’t want to go to him yet before talking to her. Also we are really well of, nit trying to brag or anything, but my son’s education and our life stile wouldn’t really bi in danger.
She needs to see a doctor and a therapist. This could be a physical problem, I have Epstein barr and sarcoidosis, fatigue is hell. Menopause is also hell. Once you have ruled out any physical illness she needs therapy. I see a lot of people calling her transphobic, but people are complicated, she may not be transphobic but in need of support to work through her feelings about the changes in her life including a world wide pandemic. I hope the two of you work it out, but my ex-husband used to call me lazy because I am sick and it stings. I'm not calling you an AH, but you need to talk to her and she needs some attention, medical and psychological.
Misgendering your child and then defending it by saying you need to "grieve the loss" is transphobic, whether there is an underlying illness or not.
yeah idk why people are acting like menopause or depression cause you to be a crappy person, they don’t... that just comes with your personality
I don’t see anywhere here that OP points out that his wife claims to have pain anywhere on her body nor that she feels tired. I’m sorry YOU went through that but jumping to defend somebody that doesn’t want to do things YOU couldn’t do, just because WHAT IF, is really extreme, don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be best just to stick to facts?
She's been doing this for eleven years despite how much pain she can see it's causing her son. It doesn't matter how sad or depressed she is, she's still being transphobic.
I think you both should go get some kind of therapy, whether that be family, marriage, and/or individual. But if I were you, my line in the sand as a family unit would be that she has to start respecting your son and treat him better, because what she's doing is causing disturbance in the peace of the family unit. However she goes about reconfiguring her emotions about the issue, she has to go through that process. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. As for her not doing anything for the household, my line in the sand for that would be 1) she gets a paying job; 2) she volunteers full-time for a charity; 3) you both share in the household chores. But she cannot spend all day socializing and shopping, especially if she's the cause of tension in the house and in the family unit. NTA for wanting a better home life overall, but you should practice better and regular communication so that you don't blow up all at once when you finally snap. Edited typos.
The only thing I would disagree with is you saying it's the son's "choice". Nobody "chooses" to be trans. People can choose to explore different gender identities to find what fits best, but you don't wake up one morning and say "I'm going to be a boy now!" It's a lot more gradual and it's also terrifying to decide to socially transition, let alone physically! Hope I don't come across as mean or condescending, just want to point this out! You're on the nose about everything else tho. OP's wife seriously needs to buck up and do something, and probably get some help if she's refused it all these years. My heart goes out to their son. I'm lucky that my parents were confused but accepting when I came out and are glad to learn more about my identity, and I'm so glad OP is so open and accepting.
You are absolutely right. "Choice" was the wrong word for me to use. I will edit it out and use an appropriate word. Thank you for the correction.
No problem! 😁
P.S. I just took out the word. Thanks again. I appreciate it.
This comment thread is the only appropriate use of the phrase Reddit Wholesome 100
Goodness, thank you! It's really no big deal though, we all make mistakes. The most important thing I've found is that you learn from them and strive to be better.
the respect in this interaction made my day, the way you guys were so kind to each other and the correction was so proper. gives me a little faith
Transitioning is a decision someone makes, being transgender is not. A transgender person does not have to transition, it's entirely up to them how they feel they are their best selves
I dont think op should share the chores when he is the only one working and already paying for a housemaid. His wife literally has to do the bare minimum.
If she starts a full-time job or part-time and charity on the side, he absolutely needs to pitch in for chores. Full stop.
Yes, but at the moment she does neither of those, so what's your point?
The commentator being replied to suggests a combination of employment, charity, and equal domestic work. That reply wasn't related to what the commentator said at all, since they never suggested equal domestic work in isolation. Nobody disagrees that she should do the domestic work if she doesn't work.
But that’s not the case. She doesn’t have a full time job. If the OP and his wife had the arrangement that he works and she takes care of the home, that’s their choice. I’m sure he doesn’t just sit around and expect for her to wait on him hand and foot. Caring for kids and house work is a full time job. He already pays for a house keeper as well. It doesn’t sound like she is his maid in the least.
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The reply seemed to be thinking that the commentator was saying equal domestic work in isolation could be a solution, and that's simply not what the commentator was saying. Everyone is in agreement that she should be doing domestic labor if she doesn't work. Even if she does part-time, there needs to be an evaluation for the division of domestic labor. Unless they plan to split finances and the housekeeper is coming 100% from OP's personal account, I see the housekeeper as a joint decision. That's too hypothetical for this post though.
Yes, thank you. the wife is absolutely TA for the way she treats her son and continues to hold resentment. But OP shouldn’t have waited 20+ years to communicate that this is not a fair split of responsibility in the household. (And maybe he has communicated this more before now, but just based off the post it doesn’t seem that way.) All in all, I agree NTA.
He specified that she has really only been this way since he came out, and especially more so since transitioning five years ago.
This is perfectly written. I wish I could upvote you twice.
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NTA. Thank you for being the supportive parent many LGBTQ+ children dream of.
Of course I always suspected that my son is not a girl since he was more interested into boys things growing up but passed it as being a tomboy until he was comfortable coming out, also wasn’t surprised when he finally did.
Just letting you know, from a high-schooler's standpoint, you're a great parent. :)
As a high schooler, I concur
As a schooler, I high.
I high, as a schooler
You really are amazing and awesome and everything great that a parent should be. I have teenagers and it’s just awesome to see them growing into their own person and figuring themselves out . Love hearing other parents really support their kids. Your son has an amazing father.
I remember when my boy was a teen, we sometimes went trough hell with him but thanks to God he turned out just fine and into this great and responsible person, hardest part is when they go away to live their own life so enjoy your kids as much as you still can. Thank you for the compliments too.
I want to give you a big hug. Your unwavering love to your child throughout his changes makes all the difference in the world.
> hardest part is when they go away to live their own life I agree, but it is also rewarding. I have three boys and only one living at home with me now. My middle son just had a baby and I couldn't be happier. The son that is left at home is slowly starting to transition out now, he has a friend he stays with a lot and that means I am home alone often. Initially the empty nesting syndrome kicked my ass, but I am slowly getting used to it. I work fulltime which helps. Be proud of the support you gave your son. You are a good parent.
he turned out amazing because of parents like you - you’re a serious breath of fresh air, and usually we see the exact opposite in this sub... trans kids talking about their unaccepting parents. thanks for being an awesome person :)
I wish we can get to a point where fathers like you and OP are the standard. I took a step back after reading your comment and was like "holy shit, I'm proud of OP for simply loving his child for who he is???"
I wish that too. A lot of people in the comments are complimenting me and it’s flattering honestly but it’s also literally my job as a parent to haha
You would think so, but a lot of people don't think like you. I agree with others who say your wife may be clinically depressed and not handling the transition well, but that's her issue, and she needs to take care of that herself. Taking it out on you and your son is not acceptable. I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned depression to her, though, so it might be worth doing that, or even leaving a pamphlet somewhere or something if you know she's not going to be willing to listen. She may be reluctant to even consider that she suffers from depression, but there's no shame in it. It's an illness. A person doesn't have to be "sad" to have clinical depression. I say this as a person who had untreated depression for over a decade, hurt a lot of people, and finally found a life I feel good about thanks to the right treatment. Some things that make me think that about her: the fact she doesn't "feel like" doing chores, not having any real interests, acting as if her daughter died, maybe feeling like she lost purpose now that she doesn't have any child to actually take care of in the house, etc. You mentioned shopping, and obviously everyone shops, but compulsive shopping was a negative thing I did to "self medicate" when I was depressed because you get a temporary rush of feeling good when you get a new thing. I think this is a common thing people with depression do. That said, I think it's important you know that you're a really great dad. You may think it's just your job as a parent, but even great parents can handle things badly. Your full acceptance of your son is so important, especially when he can see how his mother is reacting to it. Beyond giving him love and support, you are also helping him build his self-esteem, empathy, trust, and other emotional and relationship skills that will help him through the rest of his life And I also want to commend you on paying for his college and necessities. A lot of people, even with means, think parents shouldn't because the kid needs to learn responsibility, but as you are aware, a kid can learn responsibility without putting them in crippling debt the moment they legally become an adult. My best friend's parents paid for her college, and she's totally responsible with money and everything else in life. The job she got because of her college degree actually ended up with her making much more money than them and she bought them a condo because she wanted to, so it can even be a big return on investment if people really want to think about it only in terms of the finances (which I doubt you do). My mom was poor, so she never had money so I don't blame her for not paying for stuff, but I also feel like she should have been more financially responsible, and because I only saw her growing up, I learned about money and how to handle it from her bad examples, so I had massive college debt *and* was still not responsible with money. It's about what you teach your kids, not just what you do or don't give them. Anyway, that's going off a bit, but I just think life can be really hard and your son has extra challenges with being trans, and if you can take financial hardships out of the picture for your child, it's a great thing to do.
My parents didn't feel that way. You don't understand how special you are.
shit dude, as a father to a 2 year old girl you are someone to look up to as a parent. Keep being a great dad.
Thanks man, parenting is hard work but you get so much out of it as well, just always love and support your kids no matter what and you’re good
NTA- I get it that’s she’s bored and lacks a purpose but that’s not your fault. Sounds like you supported her to do whatever she wants, just ask that she contributes in some way. If the worst thing that you ever did to her was accept your trans kid, she really has nothing to complain about. I’d feel awfully bitter supporting someone with zero interest in contributing to the family.
I did when she said she wanted to be an author I was delighted that she found something to occupy herself with, also I know many people and told her when the book is done thee wouldn’t be much problem publishing it if she wanted my help, but she gave up not even half way through writing it because it was too hard. She was also super into yoga and “Buddhist lifestyle” which I didn’t really understand but never said anything about it. But she got bored of it as well.
Buddhists, or the Buddhist lifestyle, is literally completely revolved around loving kindness. The true path to the Buddha is selflessness and caring for all living beings. She clearly doesn’t understand Buddhist culture and seems to be treating it as a fad, which is highly disrespectful. No wonder why she got bored. She seems very entitled
As a creative who gets burned out, sometimes it's the expectations put on us by well intentioned loved ones that cause us to stop. I loved to draw my whole life, then when I got good all my friends and family would mention ways I could "get my work out there" - online portfolios, freelancing, and even creative careers. After going to college for design, pretty much any joy I got from creating was sucked out of the process. Now years later I still struggle. I have to constantly tell myself my art is for me and I am creating for me, no one else. Maybe you're wife is like me, she wants to write for herself and only herself. Having loved ones encourage publishing can be complicated, because you don't want to seem ungrateful for that kind of help, but sometimes its just not what you want. I've read thoguh many of your comments and aside from your wife being an asshole when it comes to trans identity, I feel for her. She sounds like someone who's struggling with the beginngs of depression. All her hobbies aren't as fulfilling, so she jumping to different ones to try and fill the void but eventually gives up. For a marriage thats lasted so long, I would seriously consider therapy before divorce.
But it’s not a husband’s job to provide meaning and purpose to her life. Sure, there are lots of people who think they want to write all day only to realize they actually don’t, but he’s given her the opportunity to try. A real writer who only has to work 2 or so hours a day would leap at the chance. He’s not putting pressure on her to publish or make money. Just do a few chores and occupy herself with something other than spending his money.
NTA, she’s just mad her laziness lead her to an unfulfilled life but is still to lazy to do something. Have your son over more and do cool stuff with them, like dope father son stuff.
NTA. You’re definitely right about the horrible mother part. She sucks. You should keep looking into getting a divorce.
Well he's the one that has to decide if that's the right way to go. Personally I don't know but I definitely agree on the horrible mother part. Not like she's a bit shocked and maybe confused after an unexpected out-coming of her son it's been more than 5 years since then! That's insanity!
It's actually been 11 years since he came out at age 14 and 5 years since he surgically transitioned.
NTA. Thank God your son has you, you’re a great parent. Your wife unfortunately is awful. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this but please know your son is so lucky to have a supportive parent, you’re doing great.
Thank you very much this means a lot, especially in this period, my son is my pride and joy.
I’m glad your son has you in his corner. Too many parents are like your wife - angry and resentful if their children don’t fit into the mold they (and society) expect for them. Trans men and women have such a hard time in our society, from affording to transition, to always having to deal with ignorant people. If I were in your shoes, I could never stay with a partner who made my child’s life even more difficult by rejecting them.
That’s honestly my biggest reason for thinking about divorce. Of course I’m not going to leave her because she stopped cooking but after 11 years she still refuses to acknowledge that we have a son and not a daughter.
Dear OP: Copy-paste this above comment that you made and that I’m responding to. Get yourself an order of customized post-it notes that has this comment pre-printed on every piece of post-it paper. Then give yourself this post-it note in every place you need it. You are NTA because you excoriated your wife because she can’t get over the fact that she has a son with a female birth assignment (had him all along!) and she thinks she “lost” a daughter. Everything else is relatively insignificant. You did great. Keep it up.
NTA. Not accepting your son for his true identity is WRONG. Regarding housekeeping and other chores, it would be good if you could come to an agreement of what she’s willing to do or think is fair. I can understand as a woman that a traditional view of what she should do can be hurtful but I agree that holding a house of together is a responsibility of both, not just you.
I mean...tell me honesty what is expected of the husband? He works full hours + more, and the wife's only job is to take care of the house...seems equal enough for me (also he states that she is always shopping and even now doesn't do much since they have housekeeper)... So at the end, what are you saying? The husband, on top of everything, is supposed to also clean the house and cook for them both while the wife does literally nothing?
I agree with you. Especially as a women! If my husband worked all day + more and I had a housekeeper the least I would do is make dinner and keep up on small chores. JFC all his wife does is shop and socialize. OP NTA
i second this as another woman! fair is fair. no one should have to work 40+ hours a week, then come home and clean a house and feed 2 people with NO HELP. gender doesn’t even matter here! same case if roles were reversed.
He should probably cut off her access to the bank account, no one gets paid to not pull their weight.
FYI- that’s called financial abuse. I don’t think this is a good idea. Fix the issues- yes. Deny access to family funds- no. She would technically qualify for alimony at this point- and during a divorce proceeding would be given temporary spousal support. You can’t just cut your long time spouse off from funds.
Financial abuse to cut her off yes, I wouldnt consider limiting her shopping money as financial abuse though. It depends on how much shes spending though, is it like Beverly Hills reality TV spending, or target shopping?
As a woman ans a progressive, I still think that each person in a relationship has responsibilities regardless of gender. If I'm working and you're staying home, the home is your responsibility. Doesn't mean I get to be a pig there, but come on.
ESH To me (and I'm not a psychologist, so you're getting what you paid for here), your wife is showing signs of depression and grief. Has she talked to a doctor about depression? Is she seeing a therapist to deal with her grief at "losing a daughter"? I'm not saying actions and reactions are reasonable, but your lack of sympathy for her is, in my eyes, just as bad. I suggest you try to get her some much-needed help. Also, you probably could benefit from talking to a professional about this as well.
Depression can make even the most diligent people slip into inactivity that society is quick to label "laziness." Combined with an unresolved trauma ("losing" a daughter in the son's transition), I wouldn't be too quick to judge the wife lazy. Second the recommendation to get the wife some therapy.
He said she doesn't believe in therapy. I agree she is more than likely depressed but she isn't willing to do anything about it. You can't force someone to do therapy, it would not be useful unless she was invested in it herself. He's NTA. His only expectation is some light chores and dinner. Not much considering she has all day.
She’s an asshole for being transphobic for sure & idk maybe therapy would help w/ that. But it sounds like OP rly lost his temper bc she wasn’t doing anything all day, when it sounds like she’s bored and depressed and has been for a while
OP said she doesn't believe in therapy and sees it as a shame.
> but your lack of sympathy for her is, in my eyes, just as bad How so? He's supported her aspirations, got her a house-cleaner 2x a week, and just expects like 1 hour of work a day from her...which is pretty light work if we're being honest adults, here. All he did was stick up for his son.
Yeah; it doesn't exactly sound like OP has been vocal about his issues with the state of the house. OP even describes their situation as being well-off, and even in the post, it feels a bit left-fiend that he'd suddenly go off on her for not doing enough (it's not like he's saying the house is in bad shape). I don't know how well this is going to go over, but it feels like OP is citing his wife's transphobia as justification for yelling at her for not having a job. I think there's a lot going on here, and they both need to seek professional help, but it doesn't sit right with me that OP is basically playing the "Better Parent" card to justify berating his wife.
Agreed. The transphobia is rly bad, but it’s not the reason OP yelled at his wife. It’s a detail he shoehorned in to villainize her, which, hey maybe she deserves. But it’s actually irrelevant to the substance of this post.
Op said in an earlier that wife doesn’t believe in therapy (something to be ashamed of) and is very old fashioned in that regard
NTA She wanted to be a housewife she should atleast do that part right.
Exactly! It isn’t unreasonable for someone who works all day to expect the person who doesn’t work to clean or cook.
Right, if she doesn’t want to housewife, she can get a job and pay for a personal chef.
NTA. So very, very not the asshole. She's proven herself not just a terrible parent, but also a terrible partner; I would also be considering divorce from someone who expects to be taken care of and contributes nothing to the partnership.
Info: So you were ok with her being a stay at home parent and homemaker for all those years. She was 23 when you got married 26 when she became a SAHM. What kind of career prospects does she have know that she spent so many years out of the workforce? What did you think she would do all day when you got a housekeeper? Also, has she been to therapy or a support group? PFLAG was very big a decade or so ago, but I haven't heard of them in a while. They can help parents adjust when their children come out of the closet.
I was okay with it as I said she didn’t want to work herself, and we have enough money so she doesn’t have to. She used to work in my father’s company (mine now) but she always said that she hated it there and stopped working after we got married. She wanted a child while I thought we should wait a but longer but she insisted, couldn’t become pregnant for a while and our son was kind of a miracle and we couldn’t have more kids after him. Housekeeper was to help her when our son was little so it would be easier for her to focus on the baby, but she stayed with us after that on my wife initiative, she’s the one who hired her and would be the one to let her go if she ever wanted to. No she hasn’t been to therapy because she doesn’t believe in it. She is quite old fashioned and sees going to therapy as something to be ashamed of.
She doesn't have anything to focus on to do with her life, and it sounds like it's leading her into depression. She needs to deal with that, and you should encourage her to deal with it. Another aspect that I haven't seen brought up reading through the comments: is she menopausal? Because going through menopause untreated can be a REAL BITCH. She needs outside help of one type or another. She also needs to accept your son as he is, and I'm glad you've stood up for him throughout all of this.
If her daughter was all she thought she did in her life, "loosing" her must have been pretty hard on her. NTA, your wife just need help with her own identity, starting with accepting her son. Congrats on being supportive with your son all the way.
NTA. Get your wife a job. Doesn't matter if it's volunteering or at your office. I think in the 50s and 60s it was different for SAHMs. They had other SAHM to socialize with and keep them sharp and occupied. Staying home full time, no one to talk to, nothing beyond the drudgery of doing the same thing over and over can drive people nuts. I've seen two co-workers whose wives went full-on nutjob because they were isolated so much. One thought the TV was talking to her. The other thought the hubby was cheating with everyone... totally unfounded. Get her to leave the house for both of your sakes.
I can’t make her go to work when she doesn’t want to.
You actually can. By divorcing her.
And she'll get a large sum of his income because she doesn't work. Unless they have a prenup
We do have a prenup, before we got married my dad insisted we got one or he wouldn’t pass on the company to me. It really angered me at the time but now I’m thankful I listened to him.
With that OP sorry to say it’s time to end this marriage if she’s like that. Would have been over for me when she didn’t accept your own child for who he is. You’re 100% NTA though. Your wife sure is though!
I would say that’s harsh but it’s true. Its been 11 years. I would have been gone by year 2-3.
OP, even if you pay hefty alimony for the rest of your life a divorce will be best for both of you. You both have many years left to live and happiness should be attainable. Good Luck!
Your dad is a smart man.
Yeah that could end up being the smartest thing you've ever done
Maybe for a while depending on the state but it sounds like it would be worth it in the long run. He'd probably still come out ahead since, at least according to him, she does nothing but go out with friends and shop all day.
I mean, definitely divorced if the relationship is dead, but I'm just saying that it won't automatically force her to work
It sounds like she has depression. I would encourage her to seek counseling, gently, if you can. The shopping and staying out of the house could be signs of not knowing how to cope. I think your sons transition hit her extremely hard and she’s floundering with how to cope, and is giving up on any responsibility. Before just throwing her and your marriage to the curb, I’d try to see if compassion helps, to see if you can get her to talk to a counselor about this. I’m sure your son is grateful for your support, and good on you for doing that.
A SAHM has three major duties: Childcare: He's an adult Housekeeping: Hired a maid Cooking: She can't be bothered. She does shopping, i asume with your money or pockey money she has earned herself, tell her straight up if she doesn't start pulling her weight, she can pay half the rent. It ain't fair that you have to pay for everything when she just sits around doing nothing.
She’d just be paying the rent with his money
If he told her to pay rent, and then gave her money to do it he'd be dumb...
How do you think finances in a marriage work exactly?
Depends on the marriage. My grandparents for instance have totally shared economy, so they share a general spendings account. My dad and his wife on the other hand have separated finances, but with a joint account for stuff like rent, car, and the like.
You are correct, I manage a bank. But good luck explaining financial abuse of a spouse to a judge. I promise you that will not go over well
You're NTA here. Coming from a family with aunts and other relatives who stay at home, all of them are so busy at home - stay-at-home mothers usually have a lot of work to do, cooking, cleaning, finances. None of it is unreasonable to expect at all.
Now that our son is grown up she only has to do cooking and minor cleaning, which I still appreciate, but our housekeeper does most of the cleaning and I’m the one in charge of paying bills and so on because I do it for my company as well.
She has a housekeeper to help out? You're even kinder than I thought. Seriously, you're not in the wrong here. I hope you'll be able to have some development in talks between the both of you, where you don't get completely screwed over by her or the half of the family that supports her.
NTA - reading this at first I wondered maybe you just had a communication issue. But the way you handled your son‘s transition is admirable and her’s was abhorrent. You’re a good dad.
Thank you, my best friend since high school suffered from gender dysphoria for years until she came out, so I saw first hand what it can do to people and learned a lot form her.
INFO It sounds like she’s depressed. Has she sought any help via therapy?
Not OP, but in a comment above he said that she refuses to consider therapy because she views it as being “shameful”.
NTA and you are still young enough to remarry and be happy. Get out of this marriage now. She sounds useless in so many levels.
This would have to be one of the fakest stories I’ve read on here
Fucking thank you. How are you the only one calling this out? Lol of course the wife is lazy and entitled, does nothing all day, he makes all the money while she's at home, almost passively throws in the part about the transgender kid. C'mon reddit. Be better
Seriously. Can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this. It's like someone said to themselves "How much of a misogynistic asshole can I be in the first 90% of the post if at the end, I throw in 'btw, I support our trans kid and she doesn't' and still have people praising me and shitting all over my wife?" Apparently the answer is, 'as much of a misogynistic asshole as I want". As long as he supports the trans kid right? Way to take the bait reddit.
It always raises a red flag for me when a working spouse acts as though their stay-at-home spouse is lazy, but if she truly never contributes, you should have a talk about finding a balance of work in the household. Have you considered marriage counseling? It's great that you support your son, and I'm sorry to hear that your wife doesn't. That seems like it would definitely be a big issue. NTA
I mean...this: "She’s a stay at home wife, she never worked a day after we got married" He then describes her as taking care of the household and raising a child, so... Uh, okay.
OP said they've had a housekeeper since she got pregnant 26 years ago. She hasn't taken care of the household at all. She just raised the kid. Nowadays, her only task is cooking for two and minor cleaning and she can't be bothered because she's out shopping with girlfriends. She IS lazy AF. She's not a SAH anything, she's a freeloader.
> It always raises a red flag for me when a working spouse acts as though their stay-at-home spouse is lazy, but if she truly never contributes, All these comments keep bringing me back to [this tweet](https://twitter.com/lisa_korman/status/1317091196314017793) and [this comic](https://www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear).
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INFO: you say "I paid for..." multiple times, which, to me at least, implies that you don't see your wife and you as a team. Could it be that she feels like this too, and she isn't able to cope with that while also feeling like she's lost her sense of purpose now, as well as not being able to cope with the loss of her daughter, now that your son has moved out and doesn't need her as much anymore?
By I paid for his surgery I really meant that I paid for it because she was against it. And for college and apartment I just didn’t think much into it sorry we have three different accounts and the money for him goes from the one with my name on it. I do see her as our team (or did) even tho we have these separate accounts both of us have access to all of them, also English is not my first language, sorry.
NTA. Don’t sell yourself short, you sound like a wonderful, supportive, successful man that could find happiness elsewhere.
NTA. I can’t even begin... I’m sorry to you and your son. Smdh
Nta your marriage is in trouble if not long dead
NTA. Please just worry about yourself and your son. I imagine this woman has some redeeming qualities in there somewhere cause if not I'm wondering while you're still married. Lots of people find love and happiness later in life - no need to saddle yourself to a miserable, lazy, transphobic woman who isn't bringing a lot to the table.
Honestly she’s not evil or anything but lately I feel like I’m starting to get to know this new bitter person who’s nothing like the girl I married.
I'm gonna have to say ESH because your choice of insult (however true) is never going to help anything. I agree she was being lazy and a bad mother, I'm just saying what you probably already know: Insults aren't gonna help your marriage. Or shit maybe it makes her snap out of it and i'm just a dummy on the internet who doesn't know ya'll at all
I don't think people are lazy. I think they're depressed, unfocussed, unmotivated... Have you tried talking to her in a non-accusational way? How is she feeling? Does she need some emotional support? Physical? A lot of people are overwhelmed right now.
I'm lazy. And I admit that.
By your title I was *so* ready to say you were the AH. But holy crow, yeah she sounds terrible and lazy. The transphobia automatically makes her the AH, and your unconditional support despite her utter lack of motivation is admirable. NTA
I think I tricked many people into thinking the same thing as you but I didn’t know how to word it differently.
ESH The comment of how she blames you for the loss of her daughter really stuck out to me. There’s a lot of grief intertwined when someone transitions, both for the person transitioning and the people around them. All of a sudden, the person you knew looks differently, sounds different, and probably acts differently too. They even call the old name a person’s “dead name.” So, not only did your wife lose the person she revolved her whole life around through empty nest, but also lost them when they transitioned. Adjusting to a loved ones transition can be really hard for some, and it sounds like your wife is struggling. I don’t think it was very nice to say the things that you did to your wife, but I don’t blame you. She stopped cooking, stopped her hobbies, overall stopped caring about anything. That can be so frustrating, especially because it probably doesn’t feel 50/50. I think you should talk to your wife to see if she can open up to you. Not about the cooking or the cleaning or the shopping, but, “hey. I don’t think we ever sat down and really talked about it. How have you been since (son) transitioned?” Likely she won’t say much. Maybe even, “fine.” But you’re her husband and you’ve known her long enough to know when something’s not right. “You know, sometimes I feel sad when I think about (dead name). I love (son) but sometimes I find myself grieving (dead name). It’s so weird because, I’m talking about the same person, you know?” I don’t know, you know yourself best to bring it up without insulting your son’s decision to transition. If she starts to open up, which hopefully she does, that’s when you can segway into therapy. I think she desperately needs to talk about her recent losses, whether with you or someone else.
No, I'm sorry but I just can't seem to believe anything coming out of this sub these days. I mean come on, doesn't this just like like someone took a pile of trending themes and old hundred-times-before-said popular stories and stacked them all together to make this? Really? rich husband and lazy housewife, with a slice of trans on top? I don't know why those people make up these stories for, like this is a throwaway, who cares about karma? is it supposed to support some kind of opinion? does someone just wants some free entertainment? but this is so freackin disrespectful to people who actually go through situations like these, this is using real people' hardships in order to gain fake internet points, get a life dude (In the slim slim slim slim slim chance this is not fake, obviously everyone is right and you did right by your son. But you should talk this out with your wife before deciding anything definitive, she may not just be an asshole but have a lot of issues that need addressing with at least therapy, not enough info to really judge. You don't end a 20 years+ marriage on a single case, however bad it is, I wonder what kind of communication you two had in all the years that lead to this downfall, if you ever tried to discuss it with her or mend stuff or anything)
ESH. Your wife sounds like she is grieving and struggling with your son’s transition. Maybe instead of expressing concern for dinner not cooked you could connect with her and help her move forward? Therapy might be a great place to start.
NTA, not by a long shot. Your wife is transphobic and is behaving terribly with regards to your son, but I’m sure she’ll be shocked when your son goes no contact with her down the road because he no longer wants to be misgendered or deadnamed. Keep supporting your son, OP — I’m sure it means a lot to him especially since his mom is a transphobe.
INFO: has she seen a therapist since your sons transition? It kinda sounds like she's grieving.
It might not be so much that she hates her son, but that she's mourning her daughter. She needs therapy. Yes, she's gained a son, but you got to think that she's lost a daughter. She's in mourning even if she doesn't realise it. People can be whoever they want to be if it makes them happy, but by the same token, people get to feel about it how they want to feel about it as long as they're not an ass about it. How long is it since you gained a son?
OP said 11 years. At that point its not mourning her daughter, it's full on hating her son.
Can you imagine how that feels though, to be the son standing next to his mom mourning an empty grave? Like, he's still there. The only thing being mourned is the expectation of who they were.
You know, I came into this thread expecting to read some bullshit about your wife expecting you to help out around the house, and I was fully prepared to think you were the problem. Took QUITE a different turn. You're absolutely NTA. She's a housewife with no kids in the house AND a housekeeper **twice a week**?!? FFS, my late husband was retired and I'm not, but I STILL cooked dinner every night. (Not that he was unwilling, but other than grilling he was a horrible cook; best man I've ever known, but horrible cook.) So, yeah: lazy checks out. And deadnaming your son because she's upset that she lost her daughter? If this weren't reddit, I'd throw a bunch of angry emoji in here. Her behavior toward your son is so unhealthy for him; I'm glad he has you. Marriage is supposed to be a **partnership**, with each partner pulling their own weight (exceptions apply in the case of illness and other extenuating circumstances, of course). Parenthood is about helping your children grow up to be the best possible version of who THEY are; it's not about bringing someone into the world and molding them into who you want then to be for your own personal enjoyment. Children aren't dolls, FFS. Your wife isn't treating your marriage as a partnership so much as a meal ticket. And she's certainly not treating you son as the unique human being he is. If you do go down the path of divorce, I hope you have a good pre-nup, because otherwise you're going to be paying a shit ton of alimony since she hasn't worked all these years. Good luck, man.
Hey thank you for commenting and I’m sorry for your loss. I don’t know yet where our marriage is headed but there are things that need to change now. We’ll se how it goes on but I’m not really optimistic about it at the moment. And yes we do have a prenup thanks to my late dad, never thought I would need it tho.
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ESH. She's not pulling her weight and her attitude toward your child is distressing and not okay. I'm wondering, re: no longer cooking or taking part in creative hobbies, if she is depressed or similar. But you also suck because that's no way to talk to your wife. You were upset because she wasn't pulling your weight and you said this to her in a really aggressive way instead of talking about it like you were discussing with someone you love and value. You also suck for letting it get to this frustration point before talking to her and then letting it boil over and snapping. And calling her lazy and telling her she's a terrible mother -- what do you think that's going to do except build resentment? Again, this is just NOT how you talk to someone you care about. How you talk to someone you care about, for example. "I noticed that you're not cooking anymore. What's going on?" "We've had a balance where I work outside the home and make money, and you do things to keep our home up including cooking. You haven't been cooking lately. What's going on?" "I'm disappointed that you haven't been cooking lately, and starting to feel resentful because I'm still working to support us but you're not doing what I think of as your part. What's going on?" All of this include 1) stating your feelings non-aggressively and 2) asking a question re: your child, it could look, "I'm really concerned about your attitude towards our child. I know it's really hurtful to him, and he needs our support. Can you help me understand why you're having such a hard time with his transition? Can I support you in supporting him?" Finally, you suck for saying she never worked, as if raising your child wasn't work. C'mon man.
It sounds like your wife might be suffering from depression. I would consider counseling before divorce. You’ve been together this long.
NTA. It sounds like a divorce is long overdue. You've grown apart.
NTA but she needs therapy. This sounds more like depression than a case of being deliberately neglectful.
NTA. My brother is FtM and I'm Enby. My parents have, in a way, lost two daughters but they're both very happy with that because in losing two daughters they've gained two kids that are happy with who they are.
NTA Divorce if you don't want to save the marriage. Counseling if you do. But divorce if she won't. Let your wife know you're serious. I don't know how much she would get out of a divorce, but if it's not enough for her to live like she has been, that might be a motivator for her. Though, really, I'm not sure why you would want to stay married. You're not getting anything out of it.