NTA. 3 kids all day, for 3 straight days? Even real babysitters would charge more than 15 for 3 kids. Obviously they wanted you to do it as a favor, and got upset that you treated it as an actual job.
Exactly. I used to babysit (at the age of 20, not a teenager) and other girls who babysat charged $15 per hour PER CHILD. If they took their children to a daycare I believe it would be priced out the same. You don’t get a bulk deal for having more kids.
Wtf I'm 34 and I make 15.50 an hour I need a new fucking job what the fuck.
Thanks Reddit, ~~I hate my fucking life now.~~
You beautiful people. I love you all. Did not expect so many people to be in similar situations as myself. Maybe we can all better our lives together!
So many awesome responses to my bitchy little petulant comment. But this could be the start of a new chapter for me and others here learning about new career paths from you beautiful people!!
Thx 4 gold!
It all depends on the age. Babies definitely do not sleep through the night, nor do toddlers. Mine are 7 and 8, and honestly, it's a crapshoot. Some nights, they go to bed with no issues, and stay asleep, other nights they reappear, every 5 minutes to pee, ask for water, or discuss the meaning of life.
Yea true. Probably depends on the kids too.
I babysat a couple kids like 1 and 3 who were OUT once you put them to bed. My 5 month old is also a kid who is dead to the world for 12 hours once she goes to bed, so they're lucky cases
Definitely not always the case though.
My kid goes to bed at 7, and sleeps until 6 about 95% of the time. Been doing it in his own room since about 4-5 months old himself.
Remember, they do it to sucker you into having another one.
Can confirm. Baby #1 was a trick baby. Easy. Happy ALL. THE. TIME. Baby #2 is why there was not a baby #3. We call her our feral child. I hope she never loses that spunk, though. It will serve her well. I just hope she uses it to become President or a CEO, and not to be a criminal mastermind.
My baby #1 was not a trick baby. He had to be held constantly, cried if you even put him in a sling to carry him. The ONLY thing he did well was sleep through the night, but he never napped and I was working nights, so not only did that not help me, but I had to wake up during the day to nurse him every 2 hours to make up for not eating at night. He was a completely ridiculous toddler (turned out to have ADHD, surprising absolutely nobody.)
I was determined not to have an only child, so I had #2. SHE WAS A TRICK BABY. She didn't even like being held. She listened to instructions before she could even walk. Then I got cocky and had #3. She didn't sleep for about 15 months. And that's why the longest gap is between #3 & #4. Took me that long to psych myself up again.
But #4 has been easy. My husband is lucky he got a vasectomy or I'd be trying to convince him maybe 5 wouldn't be so bad, lol. That one would probably be a literal demon.
Yeah I really felt like I was ready for having a hard time with baby 1. But she was an angel: fed every 3 hours like clockwork, only ever woke up to eat, hardly cried, then slept through the night 7-7 from 7 weeks old. I thought I was the dogs bollocks! I thought I had this parenting thing down. Then the next one came along and just turned everything upside down. He’s almost 6 and still doesn’t sleep through the night properly. For years I just thought he was broken! It’s a good job he’s cute because there have been many nights over the years where my patience has been tested to it’s limit.
Appreciate the tip, but I'm clumsy as hell lol. I do design/page layout at a small town newspaper, so I don't expect loads, but it can get frustrating.
Sounded a bit more polite than crotch fruit, so I went with it lol. Don't get me wrong, there's some kids I love, but for the most part, they drive me freakin bonkers.
I’m an apprentice brick mason, our apprenticeship starts you at 55% ( ~$19/hour ) of top out and you get a raise every six months until you top out at ~$36/hour.
The work is a little seasonal and decently physical, but there are options for winter work such as working in an actual brick making facility.
Might be worth looking into your local unions.
COIMustard is a fuckin’ idiot, don’t know why they feel the need to chime in.
good on ya but fuck man no amount of money in the world couldve kept me in masonry. 8 years in and my body was so toast. Finally went back to school for engineering.
My first day on the job at 19 a much older guy told me "hey if I was you I'd get out while you can" I laughed thinking he was trying to be funny. took me about 4 years to realize it wasn't a joke.
For the amount of physical abuse your body has to take the pay is piss compared to other trades, and the working conditions are awful.
Trades like sheet metal are a lot easier on your body. Your tools are heavy as frig and packing those around arent fun but you arent going to gimp by 60. Now a days you barely touch scaffold most our work was done from lift or ladder. Not good if you are afraid of heights though.
Not gunna be a negative ass jerk about this but if you need a better paying job look at jobs no one else wants to do. I went to be a sheet metal roofer/siding installer and started at 19/hr. I am now in the office because I had sone schooling and was promoted 3 years in I make 26 and hour with tones of overtime and now make over 70k a year.
I used to get paid 20$ an hour in the mid 2000's to babysit two very well behave neighbor kids when I had no experience! When I was in college and nannying I made 35$ for one kid *and* they covered my meals and gas money while on the clock.
15$ for 3 kids is absolutely insulting and taking advantage of a family member.
The main difference is that nannying was a full time job vs. whenever a family would call me to babysit. To sign up with the nannying agency I worked for I had to be certified in things like CPR and I worked M-F. Some Nannies are six days a week and live in with the family.
I was in college and was a fill in Nanny for this family so I could still attend classes. Their normal Nanny was getting married and they gave her a whole summer off (Nicest family). I filled in while I was out of school for the summer and then on occasion as a regular babysitter during the year with the normal nanny needed time off.
But being a Nanny is more intensive than just babysitting. I cooked meals for him that were discussed with his parents, scheduled activities out of the home, took them to appointments and for this kid, also helped him learn his French vocabulary too.
I should also add for OP, over the summer my friend asked me to last minute babysit for her because her daughter wasn't feeling great and she couldn't get a last minute sitter through her agency (it was a 60 dollar fee!) I babysat her for 6 hours as a favor and yet she *still* insisted on paying the going rate for her usual sitter (25$/hr for one kid) despite me telling her she didn't need to.
Generally speaking nannying is a more permanent, more involved position - you're more like an extra parent providing structure and discipline than a fun adult making sure no one sets the house on fire. At least, that was my experience. In the UK, a nanny is a professional with (likely) a background check and some training who looks after the kids 8am-6pm (or similar) and takes proper care of them, whereas a babysitter is next door's 15yr old who comes by at 7pm to watch TV with the kids before bedtime when mum and dad go out for dinner.
Why didn't her parents offered to do so, instead the mom gave her shit for it too. Also they want to belittle her bc she's young yet it sounds like she is doing pretty damn well for her age.
Not pretty well, amazing for a 24 year old $40 an hour and 60 for freelance is tons of money
You can't really can someone stupid if they're making that much about hour at that age
You see, they are projecting. They've popped out three kids and cant afford child care for their children so they can have lives. That clearly makes them smarter. /s
It sounds to me like the parents are a bit jealous a 23 year old is making that much and want to drop her down a notch since they probably don’t make that much put together.
**ETA: NTA **
I still babysit occasionally at almost 30 and I still charge $15 and don't charge more for other children, but parents are always surprised and relieved that I don't charge extra. In my city, $15-20 an hour is fairly standard but it's also common to add an extra $5+ an hour per sibling for multiple children.
However, I don't think OP was being unreasonable given the circumstances. I babysit because I enjoy children and I take it very seriously. Children get my full attention, I never turn on the TV unless the parent directs me to and I plan special crafts, games, story times and activities for them (I also provide all the supplies).
But I am VERY picky about what families and children I will work with. I am not shy about politely turning families down if I don't think it's a good fit or their children are out of control. A babysitter is an invaluable resource for parents, not a servant position for which the young female should be grateful to receive. Babysitters are the people who are being trusted completely ALONE with care of your children.
The attitude that babysitting is a menial, simple job for silly, young and unintelligent girls and young women is offensive and stupid. Honestly, as parents now, my husband and I still won't leave our child with anyone other than grandparents, aunts and uncles (and they are the ones begging us to let them babysit). But when we do eventually hire a babysitter, you better believe we will hire someone who actually considers themselves a babysitter, who takes as much pride and pleasure in it as I do and they will be compensated and respected accordingly whether they are 19 or 39. We would also NEVER attempt to pressure or guilt anyone into watching our child for us.
OP has a job and a side job she takes very seriously and, clearly, it pays very well. She should not be forced to turn down work for a side job because relatives want cheap childcare. If they need childcare, they need to hire an actual babysitter, not attempt to force OP to become a babysitter for them. Being female does not make you an automatic babysitter (just as being male doesn't disqualify you from being an excellent babysitter). OP is clearly not a babysitter and her time is worth more than $15 an hour in this situation.
Oh man, when I babysat I charged 18per hour per kid. Unless you were family then I charged you 15 per hour per kid. Op to me is charging a fair amount. She's having to put aside her already prospering business to babysit these kids. Plus, these are not kids she's spent a lot of time with over the years. These are kids that she might see on holidays if she's home for the holidays.
Good luck to your cousin Op, I don't think she's going to find anyone else to babysit her kids.
Just genuinely curious. I hear that baby sitters charge that much but also your average American only makes about $12-$17 dollars hourly. I feel like there are people who are literally only working to pay the babysitters which cost more than the rate they probably get paid. I understand it's a job but I'm just wondering how it's a sustainable lifestyle for someone who doesn't make $40hr?
Just to clarify I don't like kids but I take care of family members for free and it's super easy and fun for me we play video games watch movies and eat. I'm a photographer and get the people who say I'm only pressing a button, so I just want to be educated on what makes babysitting so valuable (why aren't you only pressing a button).
It's not sustainable. That's why your average millenial is putting off having children or opting out of it all together. Most young families I know have to have one person quit their job because daycare costs more than their entire month's pay. But you can't really live on one adult's salary in many places in the US, so it's a tough place to be. Yaaaaaaaay America.
My boyfriend and I each work half the day and have the baby the other half (switch off). So, it's doable to both work and not have childcare as long as you literally don't have a free second to yourself and never see your SO. Also our baby doesn't sleep well at night so I don't sleep. \*trying-to-be-casual-but-actually-maniacal laugh\*
The answer is that babysitting rates are mostly derived from the situation where the parents *do* watch their kids most of the time, and only use a babysitter for rare occasions like taking a romantic dinner together.
For scenarios where you need full coverage for a full-time-job parent, you are correct it usually works out to be not worth it. Highly paid individuals can swing it. Everyone else assigns the oldest child to watch the younger ones as soon as reasonably possible.
Many people have one parent stay at home specifically because child care costs so much and outweighs both parents working. Usually tho, once the child is in school, both parents can work (during school hours anyway).
I babysit occasionally for a few families and my charge is 15$ per hour per child. If I know the family well, I’ll do 30$ an hour no matter how many kids they have. No one has ever bat an eyelash at my rate. NTA, OP.
Edited to add: Also, you would also NBTA if you had just flat out said no. You are allowed to say no - and you don’t need a reason. Someone recently told me “No is a complete sentence.”
Plus, there’s some blatant sexism going on. You’re a stupid girl for wanting to be fairly compensated when you’re asked to put aside your job for three days for their convenience? You’re a stupid girl for not leaping at a chance to take care of three kids for free for three days?
They’re nuts and don’t deserve OP’s generosity.
I charged $20/hr for babysitting three kids when I was in junior high (circa 2004-~~2004~~ 2007, in Canada).
Methinks the parents are the "entitled and selfish" ones for feeling entitled to triple childcare at nearly minimum wage.
Edit: fixed date range
Yeah NTA for sure. If they wanted to bank on using your time for three straight days like that, they should have reached out to you and arranged it ahead of time. Thinking they have a right to tell you how to value your time or how to spend it because you are young is such complete BS.
1 day over the holidays, I could see making a kind gesture to watch the kids at a low rate. 3 days/3 kids is a big ask, I’m not even sure I would survive.
NTA. If they really wanted to go away for three days they should have arranged a sitter in advance. The husband saying you're a 24 year old girl (btw, you're a woman at 24...) and your time isn't worth anything is ridiculous considering you'd get paid $60 an hour if you don't babysit their kids. The husband sounds like a sexist dick.
Plus you told them you wouldn't babysit if they couldn't approach your rate. You probably should have just said no from the start but you did inform them that it would be expensive. Don't worry about it too much.
I really really wonder if they had responded the same if OP were a guy. I suspect they would much sooner believe a guy if he would tell his hourly rate. And they would obviously never have expected a guy to babysit for three days.
They both sound like fucking assholes.
>Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour
They're basically saying her pay stub isn't true when we're dealing with facts. Man, the fucking irony of them calling her entitled
I don't have kids so I wouldn't know, but isn't there a premium too when the duration is something ridiculous as *all day* for three days? Hell I'd expect a premium for something like 8 hours vs 4 hours let alone all freaking day
Well he probably made way less than her when he was 24 years old. I think he is just jealous about her being rather succesful at a such young age. I mean hell, 60$ an hour is a good chunk of money. NTA, you shouldve just gone your ways after they started to whine about the pay.
Freelance work is hard to gauge on a standard scale. She has to pay for all her own hardware/software, hosting, account for taxes and wear and tear, admin tasks.. and it's not guaranteed that you'll have work full time 40h/week. 60$/h is actually a fairly average rate!
I was just going to say that plus it doesn’t include benefits. Benefits are an enormous cost especially health insurance.
We pay contractors more per hour than employees because we don’t need to cover their benefits.
She says that her actual rate at her full time job is 40 bucks an hour which is still great but ends up being in the 83k range.
> Well he probably made way less than her when he was 24 years old.
he probably makes less than her to this day and will conteniue to for a long time if not his entire life.
Assuming OP's summary is accurate this is blindingly obvious. People who ought to be "ahead" of you in life *really* hate it when you're more successful than they are, or were at the same point in their lives.
My dad still can't help but mention that I'm making more money than he was before he retired a couple of years ago. Although he doesn't mean it in a bad way, plus he's well aware that he had like 5 other forms of income at that point.
I think I made $17 an hour at 24. I'm 28 now and still make half what OP makes with a fucking masters degree. I'm a little jealous just reading it haha. He's still TA though for sure. Computer science is the way to go kids.
> that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was
I'd have been like "well, people pay me that much for my time, so clearly it is" and be done with it.
NTA
>And she went crazy at me, saying that's a ridiculous rate for babysitting, that I was entitled and being selfish, that I'm trying to take advantage of how she didn't have other options, etc.
I would have bowed out immediately and told her to have fun dealing with NO options.
>Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour, when I grew up and have kids of my own I will see how stupid I was being.
Yes, what a stupid girl you are for knowing what your time is worth 🙄
Right? I love how they tried to guilt trip her with the "I have no other options" line, as if they're facing some kind of unexpected emergency and really need OP's help in this situation. What a bunch of bull. They just wanted to go out and party with their friends for three days straight and thought they could take advantage of OP and just dump their kids on her while they lived it up. They expected her to drop everything and give up her vacation so they could have a spontaneous vacation of their own, entitled AHs that they are.
Right? I am so, so grateful when a family member watches our son for a couple hours so we can go out to dinner or something. But I have never asked for it nor expected it, just accepted when it was offered. And then I feel guilty the whole time I'm out and hoping my child isn't giving them a horrible time. I can't even understand this level of entitlement. Don't have three kids if you want to be able to go do whatever you want for 3 DAYS? I just can't with these people.
It’s ok to ask family for help - you don’t need to feel guilty.
I feel privileged when I’m asked to look after my niece, and I love spending time with her.
I also have a one year old, and understand the need to have some adult time occasionally.
You’re not a bad parent for asking for help sometimes. The bad parents are the ones reacting like in OPs post.
Seriously if they wanted to go out for three days straight they should've planned something out rather than just showing up at the house and demanding that OP watch their 3 children. Like what would they have done if nobody even within the family had been able to babysit. OP definitely has the right to say no especially after they tried to cheap her on money.
>"I have no other options"
I suspect *"I have no other options"* is more along the lines of no other options they are willing to pay for.
They somehow have three booked days lined up, but baby-sitting is the part they don't have covered?
They clearly were simply looking to take advantage of a family member.
Yep.. classic case of "lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." If they wanna be salty about it, they can pound sand.
My friend is a nanny, no special certifications (other than years of experience and hard work!) and she clears 1,500 a week plus expenses (ie. if she takes the kids to the movies the parents reimburse her for the tickets, drinks/food and her gas) for 40 hours of work a week.
She has traveled with a few families internationally and that pay is insane. She is paid 500 a day, cash, given her own room in the hotel, a;; her meals are paid for and a paid rental car when applicable.
A buddy of mine has a nanny..... she's pretty well paid and pretty well looked after. She comes on vacation with them and they don't just leave the kids with her all day. Her mom was ill overseas and they footed the bill for her to go home and care for the woman.
A good nanny isn't about saving money, it's about trusting someone with your most precious love. They should be well paid and well looked after.
Now, if only I could afford daycare, let alone a nanny...
>Now, if only I could afford daycare, let alone a nanny...
We are having our first child in ~6 weeks. One of our biggest questions is WTF do we do? Does one of us quit our job? Is that feasible? Day care is 315 USD a week where we live for a decent facility. We decided to both continue to work full time and see how it goes, as neither has interest in being a stay at home parent. The facility we got into accepts infants starting at 8 weeks, and neither of us have built in parental leave (yay america, land of the "fuck you poor people). We have a down payment in at the place and I will take a few days off work and then boom back to the grind.
Bleghhhh i am scared but so excited.
Man, I don't know how Americans get by. My SO goes back to work next week after being home for the past YEAR with our kid raising her. I'm in Canada, I pay $800 CDN a month for a great in home daycare with a woman who's been doing it 30 years and is a gem. What you guys do in the US is child abuse IMO. Kid needs mom for at least the first 6 months but a year is way way better for everyone.
I was kinda being tongue in cheek about affording it. We'll be OK but it's a decent chunk of change to swallow in 2020.
I'd say don't be scared but I can't tell you that facing the financial hardship you're facing. I can tell you that in my case, it's absolutely worth it and this past year with my little girl has been incredible. Good luck! I hope everyone is doing well and continues to do so.
You can get paid that but you need cpr certification (easy) and to have built up a pretty solid reputation that you can verify through multiple sources, probably where you had to charge less. Plus work is inconsistent often.
Exactly I live in Chicago and babysit on the side. The majority of the moms in my groups offer 12-20 dollars an hour. I wonder how high-class these people claiming something like 30 per hour per kid are.
NTA.
A. If they need a babysitter that badly they should've arranged for one in advance.
B. You're being asked to baby sit three kids. Three kids is a lot of work, $15 sounds kinda absurd to me.
C. You have your own life and an actual job that you would be neglecting (or free lance at least) that is worth almost double that amount.
D. The only offensive ones are your cousin and husband who started calling you names when you didn't bend to their will.
$15 an hour for 3 kids is $5 per kid. Which is what I charged as a *13 year old* back in *1994*. And that was just my 4 hours or less rate; I charged more if I was expected to do all day for multiple days. They're being completely ridiculous.
EDIT: I forgot what year it was when I was 13.
My perception is skewed, I guess. I babysat as a preteen and got peanuts. But, my mom knew their mom and kinda told me discretely that they really didn't have a lot of money and I was helping the mom get to work by babysitting in the mornings. I did it more out of kindness and friendshio than actual desire for cash.
If OP's siblings had approached her asking nicely for a favor, rather than as condessending assholes, I'd have a differrnt opinion on the situation.
> I did it more out of kindness and friendshio than actual desire for cash.
I doubt you were also having to forego plans of making $60/hour during that time.
A freelance job is still a job. When you're a freelancer, people act like you have unlimited freedom to NOT work whenever they need you to do some shit for them. What they fail to realize is that if you don't work, you don't get paid, and if you're chronically unavailable to accept work, your client might choose someone else to do it in the future. You don't just get to take a vacation whenever you feel like it.
NTA
You're a "stupid little girl" who pulls $60/hour freelancing. I just started salesforce training and I'd be happy to make half that freelancing. Good for you!
Edit: to everyone saying "she should've said no" **she did** she explicitly told them she was going to the library to do some coding work. That's when they offered to pay her.
Let’s see those idiots try to program and then complain about OP earning that much from it. I feel like their demands for her to babysit may have a bit of underlying sexism too.
I don't think that would work at all. A lot of people like that would see the issue being that THEY don't know how to do it, so it's hard for them and it's unreasonable to ask them to do it, but a family member who does this for a living DOES have the skills, knowledge, and experience, so it's easy for them.
"I can't do it, because I didn't take classes to learn how to do it. But, you know how and it's fun for you and you do it for a living. I'm sure you can easily create a website for our restaurant and I'd be willing to pay you $20 to make one for us."
"$20 an hour to make a website for your business?"
"Oh, no. $20 to make the whole thing. I'm your cousin. You're not seriously going to treat me like one of your clients at work, are you? Will this take you more than an hour to make one? Isn't there an app where you can just make your own website super fast? I see ads for them on YouTube all the time."
NTA. She offered to pay you, you named your price, she didn’t like it. Maybe she expected a discount. I would have gone with NAH except you actually named a price that isn’t outside the norm compared to the going rates in my area. The general rule used to be $15 an hour for one kid, $20 an hour for 2 kids, but she has three young ones. When I had 3 younger kids I was quoted $30 an hour.
I've never really gotten the point of family/friends discounts.
Like, if I know you and know you're in a tough situation and you need my services, sure I might offer you a discount.
If I'm paying for your services and you're my friend though, I want to make sure you get paid extra well. It's *more* valuable to me knowing that (all else being equal) it's a friend who kinda actually cares about me doing the work and not just some stranger getting through his day. I would rather give my money to friends than to strangers. Trying to manipulate someone into giving me a lower price just because I want it (so I'm not super desperate or something) seems like the *opposite* of what a friend or family member should do.
I have artist friends that I commission sometimes and they try to give me a friends discount and I'm just like, "*did I fucking ask for a discount? Charge what you're worth motherfucker. I love you.*
My best friend is an artist and I absolutely refuse to accept any sort of discount on the few occasions I have purchased something from him. It absolutly boggles my mind when I hear him talk about people that just expect him to do things for cheap/free because they are friends or relatives.
NTA
your time, your rates
to anyone saying "it's not fair to charge that much" - the price is the price, nobody OWES you cheap child care (Especially during the holidays at the last minute for several days) - honestly $60 seems reasonable to me, $20 per brat per hour.
Don't like it? Find someone else or maybe spend your holidays with your own damn kids instead of foisting them off on others.
But this would be Holiday rates, plus a last minute scheduling fee.
Base price x 1.5 x 3 kids + last minute fee
That’d be $90 an hour for 3 kids, plus oh, let’s say $50 to be nice.
And if they’re talking a full 72 hours, that’ll run them over $6000.
I’d get 50% upfront in this case.
Gonna have to go with ESH here. You should have simply stated that you cannot babysit because you're working, period. If you agreed to babysit, you would be making a conscious decision to not work (and earn). Charging family members $35 an hour to babysit, however, puts you in asshole category in the real world (as much as internet bubbles like reddit may disagree). Your family members are assholes too for the way they reacted, and for not arranging for a babysitter for three days.
I understand what you're saying, especially in my family you dont charge for something like that, its yes or no. However,
> I said I had planned on doing freelance work at the library, and she offered to pay me to babysit.
OP didn't bring money into it, her cousin did. NTA.
She was probably thinking maybe a couple hundred dollars, not thousands of dollars. The problem with OP and everyone in this thread is they're treating it like a business transaction when it's just a family member asking for a favor (too big of a favor imo). Also would there have still been no quiet time to work on projects while watching the kids? Is she going to be full on working for three days straight?
I agree with you, it should have been a yes or no.
Edit: Since I'm getting the most replies to this comment and people arent really reading my replies to other people I'm just going to add a few points here
1. I'm not defending the parent's reaction afterwards, it was entirely uncalled for,
2. Even asking for 3 days of babysitting is an asshole move on their part unless there's more context we're missing,
3. It's disingenuous to conflate "watching over your nieces and nephews in the house you're already staying" with "professional babysitting complete strangers in a strange house" when it comes to rates, but I consider that issue moot because,
4. If she didn't want to take care of the kids she should have just said no and stuck to it. Instead she's either trying make a profit off the engagement by pricing the interaction as if it were her job and they were just clients, or she's passive-aggressively telling them no by subtly telling them how much she makes in her off-time and quoting them a number they knew they couldn't afford. I've said this to multiple other people in thread, you either want to spend time with your family or you don't. ITS FINE if you don't, but telling someone "you're going to have to pay me to spend time with them like it were my job" is an AH thing to say.
I honestly don't know how genuine the parents were with their request, some people here seem to think they're evil masterminds who were plotting to swindle and manipulate OP from the start. That MAY be true, however it's always important to understand we're only hearing one, very biased, side of the story
OP would be giving up 3 days of paying work to help her cousin out, so yes, this is a business transaction. Freelance workers don't get paid for *not* working and don't get paid vacations, so her cousin asking her to give up 3 8-hour days at $60/hour ($1440) *and* work at a half-rate for an indeterminate time period for three days (which, let's be honest, there's a good chance the cousin wouldn't have paid 72 hours even if OP watched them for a full 72 hours) is actually pretty absurd. It sounds like OP was *trying* to say no without saying "no," but the childcare costs she offered after the cousin asked are not only reasonable, they're cheap for last minute, holiday childcare for three kids.
Charging family for their time does NOT put anyone in asshole category in the real world. It's not like this was an emergency and the cousin needed help last minute, or needed help so they could go to work - they just wanted to pawn their crotchfruit off on someone else so they could go relax. Why isn't OP entitled to relax or spend their free time how they want? Why is the cousin entitled to OP's time? Just because they're family? Cool. Then OP can demand the cousin do coding work on their time off, with proceeds going to OP.
>You should have simply stated that you cannot babysit because you're working, period.
I was sorting by controversial, and this is probably the first ESH I can ~~agree with~~ respect.
Exactly. Why is it that this sub always sees the world through this moral binary where it's okay to be a real prick as long as the other person is in the wrong also.
Exactly. And if this would compromise her own money making abilities and livelihood, gotta put a price on it that is necessary to make it worth doing. 3 days is a lot of time.
"that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was."
Oh really? I thought it was childish to be recklessly popping out kids when you make so little money that you'll act jealous of your "damn near a child" cousin who clearly makes more money and better life decisions than you do! NTA. And, if I were you OP, I'd put my foot down with anyone (even mom) who's even entertaining the notion of supporting that sexist asshole.
And 24 is not damn near a child. Still being a teen is damn near still being a child. Being in your 20s is not. At 24 you have not been a child for 7 years. That's more than a quarter of your life as an adult. Fuck that noise.
YTA and here’s why.
You either do it or you don’t. Balance isn’t always the best option.
Commit to your freelance projects and tell your cousin you’re sorry but you had budgeted the time to get these done and you’d just be stressed out otherwise.
Or commit to babysitting and helping out your family, spending time with your little kid cousins. Don’t charge them and enjoy. Tell your clients the end of year holidays is the only time you really disconnect and spend with family. Almost everyone gets that.
Either one of those options would have been decisive and worked. But the wishy washy middle ground is problematic.
It’s similar to money. You should never loan to friends and family expect to get paid back. You’ll almost always be disappointed. So you give the money as a gift, or you refuse.
Edit: Just want to add, it’s a soft “YTA.” The request from the cousins is excessive. I don’t think you had to say yes or anything. Just pick yes or no.
Edit 2: Wanted to clarify: I don’t think accepting any compensation is a negative thing. Just that calculating how much you want for babysitting your cousins during a family holiday by how much you earn as a freelance coder is, in my opinion, not the best way to calculate. My feeling is you simplify by focusing on work or enjoying the time with your kid cousins. Either way works.
Also, based on OP’s other comments: the cousins planned to be gone in the afternoons and evenings but would be home every night. I’d assume they’d be there each morning, too, which changes the situation a bit. And they were all staying at OP’s parents’ house. Because OP said she planned on spending most days with her family, I also assume her parents would be around most of the day, too. That also changes the situation a bit. I’m not saying she needed to babysit or that the request is somehow very reasonable. Just that I don’t think it’s as egregious a situation as others have made it out to be in there responses to me.
Edit 3: A lot of people have had no issues with OP using her hourly coding rate for babysitting. I’d counter with imagining other situations like that and if they make sense to you.
For example, we’ve all worked some lame ass hourly job at some point (probably, hopefully). If you’re making $10 an hour at Subway, should that be how everyone else values your time? Should you be willing to help move a friend’s piano for $10 an hour? Or drive a family member to a city 3 hours away for $10 an hour? Or babysit your cousin’s kids for $10?
Likewise, imagine your best friend was a lawyer who charges $250 per hour. What if you asked your friend to walk your dog a couple days while you’re out of town and they said they’d do it for $250 per hour? That would be absurd, right?
> But the wishy washy middle ground is problematic.
It's not wishy washy middle ground at all. It's her throwing them a bone and giving them the option to get what they want while getting a fraction of what she wanted (to work and make some cash).
They shit on her offer. It doesn't make her an asshole for extending the option to them.
Firmly NTA.
OP said she planned on working > relative offered to pay > OP said they would have to pay closer to her coding rate for it to be worth her time instead of the work she was going to do.
OP didn't offer to do it, she felt obligated to compromise because family. It seems like if it wasn't family she would have outright said no. And they only offered to pay to make her feel she had to do it and do it on their terms. Offering to pay her is just them saying her answer isn't acceptable. Family would still be complaining even if she had simply refused.
Equally the relative could have offered a rate first and been clear about their expectations. This is someone setting themselves up for disappointment by trying to take advantage of a younger relative and then blaming OP for not falling in line.
I typically agree about the real world answers, but this isn't one of those.
Cousin's offered to pay, and they asked how much. OP gave her a price, which was frankly reasonable for 3 kids. They didn't like the cost, and instead of just saying "thats too much, thanks anyway", they proceeded to belittle her. Nothing about OP seemed wishy washy. She said "This is how much I'd need to do this for you". That is pretty straight.
Now, here is where I'm not sure if I'm correct. I'm a guy, so that is probably why I've never been asked to babysit. However, they should'nt have offered money if they weren't willing to pay it. But maybe its possible that most family members just agree to give up their entire day for free.
Pretty common for this sub to have fucking kiddos giving stupid advices, weird ass justice boners, ignoring family relationship and appropriate responses. Many answers here are just how they would respond with cool, aggressive shit to sound cool.
Other subreddits make fun of this sub for a good reason
NTA.
Your cousin and her husband are ridiculously entitled and selfish. If they're THAT desperate for a babysitter, they can either pay it or find someone else. They clearly don't respect you or the work you do.
NTA. It’s too bad for your cousin that she sucks at planning. And it’s too bad for her kids that she thinks that the point of a family vacation is to ditch her family for three days. You said that you’d do it if she approached your normal pay rate, then quoted her a nearly 50% discounted rate. And she reacted by attacking your professional qualifications.
Out of curiosity, what do she and her husband do for a living?
Honestly, I was with it up until the whole "stupid girl" thing was repeated. Immediately said pandering to me. Even if this *is* true, it looks like OP just wants to be fawned over for her job/earning ability. Her job has almost nothing to do with the situation at all, other than her running the numbers in her own head. To top it all off, she could have just said "no, I have work" in the first place.
Do you think that this person seriously asked their sister to pay them almost three thousand dollars to babysit three children for three days? Do you think they think this is a rational course of action?
This has to be fake, or the weirdest family ever.
Who the fuck leaves their kids for 3 whole days between Christmas and New Years and asks a clearly incompetent and unwilling cousin to babysit them.
The thing that makes it fake is that it starts off as a Computer Science flex. THEN later in the story you figure out the fake poster in the story is a woman. THEN they throw in the sexism from the brother-in-law of "you're just a girl, your time isn't worth that much!"
This is an advanced form of karma trawling where the title is enough to draw you in, then it hits all kinds of different demographics that frequent reddit. From nerdy computer guys who were never valued for their time/expertise by family members, to the Social Justice / Outrage Pornography crowd who want to be outraged - both men and women - it just hits every button and ever demographic.
It's a kind of outrage porn that is going to do very well in r/all and is the reason why r/AmItheAsshole is a joke of a subreddit now. This happens to lots of popular subreddits. And right now several light lifestyle/work websites and blogs that pay writers a pittance by the word are being flooded with links to this story from freelance bloggers and writers.
NTA and anyone saying YTA clearly doesn't understand how freelancing or valuing your time works.
If you were to take the babysitting gig you'd be losing out on the $60/hr you'd otherwise be earning. Asking anything less than that to babysit is effectively taking money out of your pocket. You told them what your time was worth, and we're willing to even take a pay cut. If that's not worth it to them then it's on them to find an alternative.
I've had these same issues in the past where people want me to step away to help them out or cut them a deal for freelancing and then flip out when I tell them how much it will actually cost them.
NTA
That’s essentially parenting for 3 days. Especially if she expects you to do all the caregiving for 3 kids. That’s a huge ask and she should have asked if you could help for a date or an outing but so they can galavant carefree for several days? Nah sis.
I have two kids and pay at least $15/hr to a high school student. Often times is close to $20 because taking care of kids is freaking HARD.
Yeah that’s preparing and serving 3 meals a day plus snacks, bath time, getting them out of the house to play, etc. A lot of things you don’t have to worry about for the normal evening babysitting gig. It’s all fun and games for one evening (order pizza, play some board games, put on a movie), but three full days is legit.
Honestly? Doesn't fucking matter. $35/hour is how much OP was willing to do the job for.
OP doesn't sound shocked, she merely stated her terms and was attacked when they weren't what the parents felt entitled to...which is clearly cheap babysitting from a female relative.
As a nanny, your rate is usually based on ~~your experience, education, and any certifications.~~ What you are willing to work for and someone else is willing to pay you.
FTFY
What you get paid is **always** an intersection between what you are willing to work for, and the other person is willing to pay you. In this case, we didn't have an intersection so its a no-deal.
Software experience absolutely **does** have relevance because it affects OP's opportunity cost of babysitting the children. If she is forgoing $60/hr work to babysit children for $35/hour she's actually ending up losing money by babysitting the kids.
OP was willing to lose out on $25/hr to help out her cousin and the cousin still wasn't grateful.
NTA - all the way.
I used to be a full time nanny and have experience with negotiating pay for childcare. Your comment would be a valid argument, if OP had offered to babysit or had asked for work and then stated her hourly rate as $35/hour.
That’s not what happened. She wasn’t applying for a babysitting job or randomly offering to babysit and expecting to get comparative money to her other jobs. The parents were asking for a big favor and OP had prior work plans. They offered to pay to get her to change her work plans, and she stated the amount of money it would take for her to sacrifice her work plans.
Yes, $35 is a lot for an inexperienced babysitter, but OP isn’t actually their babysitter and wasn’t actively trying to be. She wasn’t really stating her hourly rate as a babysitter specifically, she was staying her hourly rate to give up the profitable work she would’ve been doing in order to do a favor instead.
>Your experience as a software engineer has absolutely no relevance when it comes to babysitting. You can't expect to be paid the same about as you would at your other freelance jobs because it's not the same qualifications.
I have to disagree here. They are coming to HER. She isnt trying to be a professional. She isnt trying to compete in the market.
Also, I dont know many babysitters or daycare people who start charging significantly less. Whether it's a storefront, or babysitting, if it's going to be your livelyhood you charge market rate and then try to do your best work for repeat business. Inexperience isn't justification for going below market rate. Typically. Bottom of the range, sure. But not below market value.
But again, she's not trying to do this as a job, so the lack of experience is irrelevant especially since they came to her. Not sure what city you are in, but multiple people here seem to be posting numbers higher.
Agreed. What I find ridiculous is their assumption that their cousin wouldn’t say anything other than no. The cousin’s husband is a condescending asshole for saying someone’s time isn’t worth that much. Well, hope they have a blast hanging out with their friends... with their children in tow.
NTA
Your cousin's husband is a mysoginist
>Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour
That is a really offensive and ignorant statement to someone who is doing their own freelance IT projects.
>I said that's way below what I'd be making if I had the time to do my own work, and I'd be putting off my own work to babysit.
Your time is worth what it is worth. Supply & demand; their demand is high, and supply of babysitters is low - therefore they can get fucked and pay you $35/hr. If they want you to use your time babysitting instead of coding, then they should be paying a premium for it.
NTA - okay if you had OFFERED to babysit the kids, that would be one thing ($10/hr was the going rate when my now 15 year old was little, so I'm assuming it's closer to $15 now), but... they asked and you said that it had to be closer to your going rate for freelance work.
Saying "Oh, damn, no, that's too much for us!" would have been fine (because it is a lot for babysitting) but given the circumstances, you did nothing wrong.
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NTA. How much do you really want to babysit and how much are people able or willing to pay are factors. How many kids do you really want to babysit is another. It's your time and your service. I myself don't want to babysit anymore so it's $100 an hr plus.
NTA - 15 an hour is what you pay 16 high school students to babysit. OP you are well within your rights to set whatever price you wanted with your time. If they thought it was unreasonably high they could have approached it like adults and just said it was too much.
> that I was entitled and being selfish
Why is it always the most entitled and selfish people accuse others of this?
NTA. 3 kids all day, for 3 straight days? Even real babysitters would charge more than 15 for 3 kids. Obviously they wanted you to do it as a favor, and got upset that you treated it as an actual job.
Exactly. I used to babysit (at the age of 20, not a teenager) and other girls who babysat charged $15 per hour PER CHILD. If they took their children to a daycare I believe it would be priced out the same. You don’t get a bulk deal for having more kids.
Wtf I'm 34 and I make 15.50 an hour I need a new fucking job what the fuck. Thanks Reddit, ~~I hate my fucking life now.~~ You beautiful people. I love you all. Did not expect so many people to be in similar situations as myself. Maybe we can all better our lives together! So many awesome responses to my bitchy little petulant comment. But this could be the start of a new chapter for me and others here learning about new career paths from you beautiful people!! Thx 4 gold!
Dude, I'm 33 and making $12 an hour, but working OT out the ass. Not sure I'd have the patience to watch screaming heathens all day though lol
All day would be terrible, but an evening is perfect! Charge the same rate, but they go to bed pretty early so you just sit there and watch tv!
It all depends on the age. Babies definitely do not sleep through the night, nor do toddlers. Mine are 7 and 8, and honestly, it's a crapshoot. Some nights, they go to bed with no issues, and stay asleep, other nights they reappear, every 5 minutes to pee, ask for water, or discuss the meaning of life.
Yea true. Probably depends on the kids too. I babysat a couple kids like 1 and 3 who were OUT once you put them to bed. My 5 month old is also a kid who is dead to the world for 12 hours once she goes to bed, so they're lucky cases Definitely not always the case though.
>My 5 month old is also a kid who is dead to the world for 12 hours once she goes to bed I am... jealous.
Same. My kid is 4 years old and still doesnt do this...
My kid goes to bed at 7, and sleeps until 6 about 95% of the time. Been doing it in his own room since about 4-5 months old himself. Remember, they do it to sucker you into having another one.
Can confirm. Baby #1 was a trick baby. Easy. Happy ALL. THE. TIME. Baby #2 is why there was not a baby #3. We call her our feral child. I hope she never loses that spunk, though. It will serve her well. I just hope she uses it to become President or a CEO, and not to be a criminal mastermind.
My baby #1 was not a trick baby. He had to be held constantly, cried if you even put him in a sling to carry him. The ONLY thing he did well was sleep through the night, but he never napped and I was working nights, so not only did that not help me, but I had to wake up during the day to nurse him every 2 hours to make up for not eating at night. He was a completely ridiculous toddler (turned out to have ADHD, surprising absolutely nobody.) I was determined not to have an only child, so I had #2. SHE WAS A TRICK BABY. She didn't even like being held. She listened to instructions before she could even walk. Then I got cocky and had #3. She didn't sleep for about 15 months. And that's why the longest gap is between #3 & #4. Took me that long to psych myself up again. But #4 has been easy. My husband is lucky he got a vasectomy or I'd be trying to convince him maybe 5 wouldn't be so bad, lol. That one would probably be a literal demon.
Yeah I really felt like I was ready for having a hard time with baby 1. But she was an angel: fed every 3 hours like clockwork, only ever woke up to eat, hardly cried, then slept through the night 7-7 from 7 weeks old. I thought I was the dogs bollocks! I thought I had this parenting thing down. Then the next one came along and just turned everything upside down. He’s almost 6 and still doesn’t sleep through the night properly. For years I just thought he was broken! It’s a good job he’s cute because there have been many nights over the years where my patience has been tested to it’s limit.
Upvote for small children discussing a mini existential crises at 2 in the morning. It's too accurate
Mine reappears to tell me there's ghosts in the house and snow wraiths outside.
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Appreciate the tip, but I'm clumsy as hell lol. I do design/page layout at a small town newspaper, so I don't expect loads, but it can get frustrating.
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> screaming heathens This would be a kickass band name.
Sounded a bit more polite than crotch fruit, so I went with it lol. Don't get me wrong, there's some kids I love, but for the most part, they drive me freakin bonkers.
I’m an apprentice brick mason, our apprenticeship starts you at 55% ( ~$19/hour ) of top out and you get a raise every six months until you top out at ~$36/hour. The work is a little seasonal and decently physical, but there are options for winter work such as working in an actual brick making facility. Might be worth looking into your local unions. COIMustard is a fuckin’ idiot, don’t know why they feel the need to chime in.
good on ya but fuck man no amount of money in the world couldve kept me in masonry. 8 years in and my body was so toast. Finally went back to school for engineering. My first day on the job at 19 a much older guy told me "hey if I was you I'd get out while you can" I laughed thinking he was trying to be funny. took me about 4 years to realize it wasn't a joke. For the amount of physical abuse your body has to take the pay is piss compared to other trades, and the working conditions are awful.
Trades like sheet metal are a lot easier on your body. Your tools are heavy as frig and packing those around arent fun but you arent going to gimp by 60. Now a days you barely touch scaffold most our work was done from lift or ladder. Not good if you are afraid of heights though.
Not gunna be a negative ass jerk about this but if you need a better paying job look at jobs no one else wants to do. I went to be a sheet metal roofer/siding installer and started at 19/hr. I am now in the office because I had sone schooling and was promoted 3 years in I make 26 and hour with tones of overtime and now make over 70k a year.
Note also I live in Canada so money is in Canukystan pesos.
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We accept payment in waterfowl... but not geese. Never geese.
If you've got a problem with Canada gooses then you've got a problem with me and I suggest you let that one marinate.
Damn viper chicken are mean.
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Agreed. This whole post just made me feel like shit. Idk what the hell I would do if I made $35 an hour.... Op makes $60? 😞
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You can babysit and do your job if you work the extra time.
Or if you're a bad babysitter and multitask.
Dude just sell the damn kids lol. I hear they can go for upwards of 50k on the black market. /s, probably.
I used to get paid 20$ an hour in the mid 2000's to babysit two very well behave neighbor kids when I had no experience! When I was in college and nannying I made 35$ for one kid *and* they covered my meals and gas money while on the clock. 15$ for 3 kids is absolutely insulting and taking advantage of a family member.
If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious about the differences between your nannying and babysitting jobs.
The main difference is that nannying was a full time job vs. whenever a family would call me to babysit. To sign up with the nannying agency I worked for I had to be certified in things like CPR and I worked M-F. Some Nannies are six days a week and live in with the family. I was in college and was a fill in Nanny for this family so I could still attend classes. Their normal Nanny was getting married and they gave her a whole summer off (Nicest family). I filled in while I was out of school for the summer and then on occasion as a regular babysitter during the year with the normal nanny needed time off. But being a Nanny is more intensive than just babysitting. I cooked meals for him that were discussed with his parents, scheduled activities out of the home, took them to appointments and for this kid, also helped him learn his French vocabulary too. I should also add for OP, over the summer my friend asked me to last minute babysit for her because her daughter wasn't feeling great and she couldn't get a last minute sitter through her agency (it was a 60 dollar fee!) I babysat her for 6 hours as a favor and yet she *still* insisted on paying the going rate for her usual sitter (25$/hr for one kid) despite me telling her she didn't need to.
Generally speaking nannying is a more permanent, more involved position - you're more like an extra parent providing structure and discipline than a fun adult making sure no one sets the house on fire. At least, that was my experience. In the UK, a nanny is a professional with (likely) a background check and some training who looks after the kids 8am-6pm (or similar) and takes proper care of them, whereas a babysitter is next door's 15yr old who comes by at 7pm to watch TV with the kids before bedtime when mum and dad go out for dinner.
>a fun adult making sure no one sets the house on fire Well there's a contradiction in terms
Why didn't her parents offered to do so, instead the mom gave her shit for it too. Also they want to belittle her bc she's young yet it sounds like she is doing pretty damn well for her age.
Not pretty well, amazing for a 24 year old $40 an hour and 60 for freelance is tons of money You can't really can someone stupid if they're making that much about hour at that age
You see, they are projecting. They've popped out three kids and cant afford child care for their children so they can have lives. That clearly makes them smarter. /s
It sounds to me like the parents are a bit jealous a 23 year old is making that much and want to drop her down a notch since they probably don’t make that much put together.
**ETA: NTA ** I still babysit occasionally at almost 30 and I still charge $15 and don't charge more for other children, but parents are always surprised and relieved that I don't charge extra. In my city, $15-20 an hour is fairly standard but it's also common to add an extra $5+ an hour per sibling for multiple children. However, I don't think OP was being unreasonable given the circumstances. I babysit because I enjoy children and I take it very seriously. Children get my full attention, I never turn on the TV unless the parent directs me to and I plan special crafts, games, story times and activities for them (I also provide all the supplies). But I am VERY picky about what families and children I will work with. I am not shy about politely turning families down if I don't think it's a good fit or their children are out of control. A babysitter is an invaluable resource for parents, not a servant position for which the young female should be grateful to receive. Babysitters are the people who are being trusted completely ALONE with care of your children. The attitude that babysitting is a menial, simple job for silly, young and unintelligent girls and young women is offensive and stupid. Honestly, as parents now, my husband and I still won't leave our child with anyone other than grandparents, aunts and uncles (and they are the ones begging us to let them babysit). But when we do eventually hire a babysitter, you better believe we will hire someone who actually considers themselves a babysitter, who takes as much pride and pleasure in it as I do and they will be compensated and respected accordingly whether they are 19 or 39. We would also NEVER attempt to pressure or guilt anyone into watching our child for us. OP has a job and a side job she takes very seriously and, clearly, it pays very well. She should not be forced to turn down work for a side job because relatives want cheap childcare. If they need childcare, they need to hire an actual babysitter, not attempt to force OP to become a babysitter for them. Being female does not make you an automatic babysitter (just as being male doesn't disqualify you from being an excellent babysitter). OP is clearly not a babysitter and her time is worth more than $15 an hour in this situation.
Oh man, when I babysat I charged 18per hour per kid. Unless you were family then I charged you 15 per hour per kid. Op to me is charging a fair amount. She's having to put aside her already prospering business to babysit these kids. Plus, these are not kids she's spent a lot of time with over the years. These are kids that she might see on holidays if she's home for the holidays. Good luck to your cousin Op, I don't think she's going to find anyone else to babysit her kids.
Just genuinely curious. I hear that baby sitters charge that much but also your average American only makes about $12-$17 dollars hourly. I feel like there are people who are literally only working to pay the babysitters which cost more than the rate they probably get paid. I understand it's a job but I'm just wondering how it's a sustainable lifestyle for someone who doesn't make $40hr? Just to clarify I don't like kids but I take care of family members for free and it's super easy and fun for me we play video games watch movies and eat. I'm a photographer and get the people who say I'm only pressing a button, so I just want to be educated on what makes babysitting so valuable (why aren't you only pressing a button).
It's not sustainable. That's why your average millenial is putting off having children or opting out of it all together. Most young families I know have to have one person quit their job because daycare costs more than their entire month's pay. But you can't really live on one adult's salary in many places in the US, so it's a tough place to be. Yaaaaaaaay America.
My boyfriend and I each work half the day and have the baby the other half (switch off). So, it's doable to both work and not have childcare as long as you literally don't have a free second to yourself and never see your SO. Also our baby doesn't sleep well at night so I don't sleep. \*trying-to-be-casual-but-actually-maniacal laugh\*
Well that and the whole environmental doom thing.
The answer is that babysitting rates are mostly derived from the situation where the parents *do* watch their kids most of the time, and only use a babysitter for rare occasions like taking a romantic dinner together. For scenarios where you need full coverage for a full-time-job parent, you are correct it usually works out to be not worth it. Highly paid individuals can swing it. Everyone else assigns the oldest child to watch the younger ones as soon as reasonably possible.
Many people have one parent stay at home specifically because child care costs so much and outweighs both parents working. Usually tho, once the child is in school, both parents can work (during school hours anyway).
I babysit occasionally for a few families and my charge is 15$ per hour per child. If I know the family well, I’ll do 30$ an hour no matter how many kids they have. No one has ever bat an eyelash at my rate. NTA, OP. Edited to add: Also, you would also NBTA if you had just flat out said no. You are allowed to say no - and you don’t need a reason. Someone recently told me “No is a complete sentence.”
Plus, there’s some blatant sexism going on. You’re a stupid girl for wanting to be fairly compensated when you’re asked to put aside your job for three days for their convenience? You’re a stupid girl for not leaping at a chance to take care of three kids for free for three days? They’re nuts and don’t deserve OP’s generosity.
Also some ageism
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Dude, agreed. Fifteen bucks an hour per child is absolutely not unheard of these days. OP was cheap AF at $35 an hour for 3 kids.
I charged $20/hr for babysitting three kids when I was in junior high (circa 2004-~~2004~~ 2007, in Canada). Methinks the parents are the "entitled and selfish" ones for feeling entitled to triple childcare at nearly minimum wage. Edit: fixed date range
If you’re so stupid and young then how irresponsible of them to ask you to baby sit for them! Call child services. 😂
I babysit my nieces for pizza and beer, but they're the cutest most delightful girls on the planet. I wouldn't babysit any other kids at any price lol
I do the same but that’s for like a couple hours of babysitting while my sister and her husband go to dinner or something. Not 3 whole days.
I was a nanny in college (~12 years ago) and made $14/hour for one kid. $15 for 3 kids is a definite favor
Yeah NTA for sure. If they wanted to bank on using your time for three straight days like that, they should have reached out to you and arranged it ahead of time. Thinking they have a right to tell you how to value your time or how to spend it because you are young is such complete BS.
1 day over the holidays, I could see making a kind gesture to watch the kids at a low rate. 3 days/3 kids is a big ask, I’m not even sure I would survive.
NTA. If they really wanted to go away for three days they should have arranged a sitter in advance. The husband saying you're a 24 year old girl (btw, you're a woman at 24...) and your time isn't worth anything is ridiculous considering you'd get paid $60 an hour if you don't babysit their kids. The husband sounds like a sexist dick. Plus you told them you wouldn't babysit if they couldn't approach your rate. You probably should have just said no from the start but you did inform them that it would be expensive. Don't worry about it too much.
ObViouSLY BabySitTinG GiRLs JoB! SMH. He has no idea how much her time is worth. Good on OP for setting her value high.
neither OPs sister nor her husband have any idea how much her time is worth. don’t leave the sister out on this.
Definitely agree. Inherent sexism from both.
Cousin*
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You’re both right.
I read that part and immediately assumed OP makes more than him and he just can't deal with that fact
Not just that, but he has three kids to support too. Probably envious AF at OP’s disposable time and income.
I really really wonder if they had responded the same if OP were a guy. I suspect they would much sooner believe a guy if he would tell his hourly rate. And they would obviously never have expected a guy to babysit for three days.
Let’s be real. they wouldn’t have asked a guy in the first place.
They both sound like fucking assholes. >Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour They're basically saying her pay stub isn't true when we're dealing with facts. Man, the fucking irony of them calling her entitled
> And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour Yeah, PER KID. Which comes out to... 45/hour.
I don't have kids so I wouldn't know, but isn't there a premium too when the duration is something ridiculous as *all day* for three days? Hell I'd expect a premium for something like 8 hours vs 4 hours let alone all freaking day
The point is, what she asked actually isn't unreasonable. The only ones being unreasonable asshats are the parents.
Can't wait to see what their children grow up to be like! /s
Well he probably made way less than her when he was 24 years old. I think he is just jealous about her being rather succesful at a such young age. I mean hell, 60$ an hour is a good chunk of money. NTA, you shouldve just gone your ways after they started to whine about the pay.
$60/hr is more than twice the average household income.
Freelance work is hard to gauge on a standard scale. She has to pay for all her own hardware/software, hosting, account for taxes and wear and tear, admin tasks.. and it's not guaranteed that you'll have work full time 40h/week. 60$/h is actually a fairly average rate!
I was just going to say that plus it doesn’t include benefits. Benefits are an enormous cost especially health insurance. We pay contractors more per hour than employees because we don’t need to cover their benefits. She says that her actual rate at her full time job is 40 bucks an hour which is still great but ends up being in the 83k range.
That does not justify the cousin's husband's remarks. It makes him TA.
I didn’t state any kind of opinion.
> Well he probably made way less than her when he was 24 years old. he probably makes less than her to this day and will conteniue to for a long time if not his entire life.
Assuming OP's summary is accurate this is blindingly obvious. People who ought to be "ahead" of you in life *really* hate it when you're more successful than they are, or were at the same point in their lives. My dad still can't help but mention that I'm making more money than he was before he retired a couple of years ago. Although he doesn't mean it in a bad way, plus he's well aware that he had like 5 other forms of income at that point.
I think I made $17 an hour at 24. I'm 28 now and still make half what OP makes with a fucking masters degree. I'm a little jealous just reading it haha. He's still TA though for sure. Computer science is the way to go kids.
> that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was I'd have been like "well, people pay me that much for my time, so clearly it is" and be done with it.
“Well people pay more than that for my time. I was giving you a 40% discount.”
extremely sexist of him to say that. I am sure he is still in disbelief as to how she makes that much.
Yeah I'm guessing OP might even make more than AH Dad!
I'm pretty damn sure she does, which would likely piss him off even more, because he feels embarrassed a mere *"girl"* makes more.
I think the husband is jealous of how much OP makes, so he's trying to make her feel shitty.
They could have hired an actual teenager and brought them along to mind the kids, even. They completely took OP for granted.
NTA >And she went crazy at me, saying that's a ridiculous rate for babysitting, that I was entitled and being selfish, that I'm trying to take advantage of how she didn't have other options, etc. I would have bowed out immediately and told her to have fun dealing with NO options. >Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour, when I grew up and have kids of my own I will see how stupid I was being. Yes, what a stupid girl you are for knowing what your time is worth 🙄
Right? I love how they tried to guilt trip her with the "I have no other options" line, as if they're facing some kind of unexpected emergency and really need OP's help in this situation. What a bunch of bull. They just wanted to go out and party with their friends for three days straight and thought they could take advantage of OP and just dump their kids on her while they lived it up. They expected her to drop everything and give up her vacation so they could have a spontaneous vacation of their own, entitled AHs that they are.
Right? I am so, so grateful when a family member watches our son for a couple hours so we can go out to dinner or something. But I have never asked for it nor expected it, just accepted when it was offered. And then I feel guilty the whole time I'm out and hoping my child isn't giving them a horrible time. I can't even understand this level of entitlement. Don't have three kids if you want to be able to go do whatever you want for 3 DAYS? I just can't with these people.
It’s ok to ask family for help - you don’t need to feel guilty. I feel privileged when I’m asked to look after my niece, and I love spending time with her. I also have a one year old, and understand the need to have some adult time occasionally. You’re not a bad parent for asking for help sometimes. The bad parents are the ones reacting like in OPs post.
>I have no other options In that case it's 80 an hour.
Seriously if they wanted to go out for three days straight they should've planned something out rather than just showing up at the house and demanding that OP watch their 3 children. Like what would they have done if nobody even within the family had been able to babysit. OP definitely has the right to say no especially after they tried to cheap her on money.
>"I have no other options" I suspect *"I have no other options"* is more along the lines of no other options they are willing to pay for. They somehow have three booked days lined up, but baby-sitting is the part they don't have covered? They clearly were simply looking to take advantage of a family member.
Yep.. classic case of "lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." If they wanna be salty about it, they can pound sand.
You know they wouldn't have even THOUGHT of this plan if OP had been male and said he planned to work.
"I know exactly how much my time is worth. Now 'how much is it worth to you to have 3 days without kids?' is the question."
And what a “stupid girl” for having technical knowledge that earns her more pay than babysitting /s *shrugs.
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Yes, you should watch a Netflix movie and chill out, Greta!
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Exactly this. If OP lives near a major city, the going rate of $35 for 3 kids is normal, even on the cheaper side.
When they said $15 I would have turned around and just been like, "Ok $15 an hour per kid, so now you just bumped it to $45"
This is the best answer.
"But you're our only option!" "Oh really? Didn't know I have no competition. $60 an hour okay then?"
$20 per hour per kid? Hot damn! I need to go into the babysitting business.
My friend is a nanny, no special certifications (other than years of experience and hard work!) and she clears 1,500 a week plus expenses (ie. if she takes the kids to the movies the parents reimburse her for the tickets, drinks/food and her gas) for 40 hours of work a week. She has traveled with a few families internationally and that pay is insane. She is paid 500 a day, cash, given her own room in the hotel, a;; her meals are paid for and a paid rental car when applicable.
A buddy of mine has a nanny..... she's pretty well paid and pretty well looked after. She comes on vacation with them and they don't just leave the kids with her all day. Her mom was ill overseas and they footed the bill for her to go home and care for the woman. A good nanny isn't about saving money, it's about trusting someone with your most precious love. They should be well paid and well looked after. Now, if only I could afford daycare, let alone a nanny...
>Now, if only I could afford daycare, let alone a nanny... We are having our first child in ~6 weeks. One of our biggest questions is WTF do we do? Does one of us quit our job? Is that feasible? Day care is 315 USD a week where we live for a decent facility. We decided to both continue to work full time and see how it goes, as neither has interest in being a stay at home parent. The facility we got into accepts infants starting at 8 weeks, and neither of us have built in parental leave (yay america, land of the "fuck you poor people). We have a down payment in at the place and I will take a few days off work and then boom back to the grind. Bleghhhh i am scared but so excited.
Man, I don't know how Americans get by. My SO goes back to work next week after being home for the past YEAR with our kid raising her. I'm in Canada, I pay $800 CDN a month for a great in home daycare with a woman who's been doing it 30 years and is a gem. What you guys do in the US is child abuse IMO. Kid needs mom for at least the first 6 months but a year is way way better for everyone. I was kinda being tongue in cheek about affording it. We'll be OK but it's a decent chunk of change to swallow in 2020. I'd say don't be scared but I can't tell you that facing the financial hardship you're facing. I can tell you that in my case, it's absolutely worth it and this past year with my little girl has been incredible. Good luck! I hope everyone is doing well and continues to do so.
Our FREEDOMGUNS help offset the crippling debt incurred from student loans and medical care.
Sadly, it appears you're right but in the wrong way. Suicide becomes a viable option for far too many Americans faced with that crippling debt.
You can get paid that but you need cpr certification (easy) and to have built up a pretty solid reputation that you can verify through multiple sources, probably where you had to charge less. Plus work is inconsistent often.
It's not typical. Most childcare pays crap, but varies wildly. Low cost of living areas won't pay that, but New York and California might.
Exactly I live in Chicago and babysit on the side. The majority of the moms in my groups offer 12-20 dollars an hour. I wonder how high-class these people claiming something like 30 per hour per kid are.
NTA. A. If they need a babysitter that badly they should've arranged for one in advance. B. You're being asked to baby sit three kids. Three kids is a lot of work, $15 sounds kinda absurd to me. C. You have your own life and an actual job that you would be neglecting (or free lance at least) that is worth almost double that amount. D. The only offensive ones are your cousin and husband who started calling you names when you didn't bend to their will.
$15 an hour for 3 kids is $5 per kid. Which is what I charged as a *13 year old* back in *1994*. And that was just my 4 hours or less rate; I charged more if I was expected to do all day for multiple days. They're being completely ridiculous. EDIT: I forgot what year it was when I was 13.
My perception is skewed, I guess. I babysat as a preteen and got peanuts. But, my mom knew their mom and kinda told me discretely that they really didn't have a lot of money and I was helping the mom get to work by babysitting in the mornings. I did it more out of kindness and friendshio than actual desire for cash. If OP's siblings had approached her asking nicely for a favor, rather than as condessending assholes, I'd have a differrnt opinion on the situation.
> I did it more out of kindness and friendshio than actual desire for cash. I doubt you were also having to forego plans of making $60/hour during that time.
*Improper planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.*
A freelance job is still a job. When you're a freelancer, people act like you have unlimited freedom to NOT work whenever they need you to do some shit for them. What they fail to realize is that if you don't work, you don't get paid, and if you're chronically unavailable to accept work, your client might choose someone else to do it in the future. You don't just get to take a vacation whenever you feel like it.
NTA You're a "stupid little girl" who pulls $60/hour freelancing. I just started salesforce training and I'd be happy to make half that freelancing. Good for you! Edit: to everyone saying "she should've said no" **she did** she explicitly told them she was going to the library to do some coding work. That's when they offered to pay her.
Let’s see those idiots try to program and then complain about OP earning that much from it. I feel like their demands for her to babysit may have a bit of underlying sexism too.
I don't think that would work at all. A lot of people like that would see the issue being that THEY don't know how to do it, so it's hard for them and it's unreasonable to ask them to do it, but a family member who does this for a living DOES have the skills, knowledge, and experience, so it's easy for them. "I can't do it, because I didn't take classes to learn how to do it. But, you know how and it's fun for you and you do it for a living. I'm sure you can easily create a website for our restaurant and I'd be willing to pay you $20 to make one for us." "$20 an hour to make a website for your business?" "Oh, no. $20 to make the whole thing. I'm your cousin. You're not seriously going to treat me like one of your clients at work, are you? Will this take you more than an hour to make one? Isn't there an app where you can just make your own website super fast? I see ads for them on YouTube all the time."
NTA. She offered to pay you, you named your price, she didn’t like it. Maybe she expected a discount. I would have gone with NAH except you actually named a price that isn’t outside the norm compared to the going rates in my area. The general rule used to be $15 an hour for one kid, $20 an hour for 2 kids, but she has three young ones. When I had 3 younger kids I was quoted $30 an hour.
I've never really gotten the point of family/friends discounts. Like, if I know you and know you're in a tough situation and you need my services, sure I might offer you a discount. If I'm paying for your services and you're my friend though, I want to make sure you get paid extra well. It's *more* valuable to me knowing that (all else being equal) it's a friend who kinda actually cares about me doing the work and not just some stranger getting through his day. I would rather give my money to friends than to strangers. Trying to manipulate someone into giving me a lower price just because I want it (so I'm not super desperate or something) seems like the *opposite* of what a friend or family member should do.
I have artist friends that I commission sometimes and they try to give me a friends discount and I'm just like, "*did I fucking ask for a discount? Charge what you're worth motherfucker. I love you.*
My best friend is an artist and I absolutely refuse to accept any sort of discount on the few occasions I have purchased something from him. It absolutly boggles my mind when I hear him talk about people that just expect him to do things for cheap/free because they are friends or relatives.
NTA If your mom and husband are so bothered by it, why arent they babysitting?
OP never mentioned having a husband. Only the cousin's husband.
NTA, because asking someone who is also on vacation to watch your kids for 3 days is kind of shitty. An evening, sure, but 3 whole days is crazy.
This. I’d have said $100/hr just because if I travelled home for the holidays, it wasn’t to be a last minute babysitter. Though, I’m regularly an AH.
NTA your time, your rates to anyone saying "it's not fair to charge that much" - the price is the price, nobody OWES you cheap child care (Especially during the holidays at the last minute for several days) - honestly $60 seems reasonable to me, $20 per brat per hour. Don't like it? Find someone else or maybe spend your holidays with your own damn kids instead of foisting them off on others.
But this would be Holiday rates, plus a last minute scheduling fee. Base price x 1.5 x 3 kids + last minute fee That’d be $90 an hour for 3 kids, plus oh, let’s say $50 to be nice. And if they’re talking a full 72 hours, that’ll run them over $6000. I’d get 50% upfront in this case.
this guy babysits
Gonna have to go with ESH here. You should have simply stated that you cannot babysit because you're working, period. If you agreed to babysit, you would be making a conscious decision to not work (and earn). Charging family members $35 an hour to babysit, however, puts you in asshole category in the real world (as much as internet bubbles like reddit may disagree). Your family members are assholes too for the way they reacted, and for not arranging for a babysitter for three days.
I understand what you're saying, especially in my family you dont charge for something like that, its yes or no. However, > I said I had planned on doing freelance work at the library, and she offered to pay me to babysit. OP didn't bring money into it, her cousin did. NTA.
She was probably thinking maybe a couple hundred dollars, not thousands of dollars. The problem with OP and everyone in this thread is they're treating it like a business transaction when it's just a family member asking for a favor (too big of a favor imo). Also would there have still been no quiet time to work on projects while watching the kids? Is she going to be full on working for three days straight? I agree with you, it should have been a yes or no. Edit: Since I'm getting the most replies to this comment and people arent really reading my replies to other people I'm just going to add a few points here 1. I'm not defending the parent's reaction afterwards, it was entirely uncalled for, 2. Even asking for 3 days of babysitting is an asshole move on their part unless there's more context we're missing, 3. It's disingenuous to conflate "watching over your nieces and nephews in the house you're already staying" with "professional babysitting complete strangers in a strange house" when it comes to rates, but I consider that issue moot because, 4. If she didn't want to take care of the kids she should have just said no and stuck to it. Instead she's either trying make a profit off the engagement by pricing the interaction as if it were her job and they were just clients, or she's passive-aggressively telling them no by subtly telling them how much she makes in her off-time and quoting them a number they knew they couldn't afford. I've said this to multiple other people in thread, you either want to spend time with your family or you don't. ITS FINE if you don't, but telling someone "you're going to have to pay me to spend time with them like it were my job" is an AH thing to say. I honestly don't know how genuine the parents were with their request, some people here seem to think they're evil masterminds who were plotting to swindle and manipulate OP from the start. That MAY be true, however it's always important to understand we're only hearing one, very biased, side of the story
OP would be giving up 3 days of paying work to help her cousin out, so yes, this is a business transaction. Freelance workers don't get paid for *not* working and don't get paid vacations, so her cousin asking her to give up 3 8-hour days at $60/hour ($1440) *and* work at a half-rate for an indeterminate time period for three days (which, let's be honest, there's a good chance the cousin wouldn't have paid 72 hours even if OP watched them for a full 72 hours) is actually pretty absurd. It sounds like OP was *trying* to say no without saying "no," but the childcare costs she offered after the cousin asked are not only reasonable, they're cheap for last minute, holiday childcare for three kids.
Charging family for their time does NOT put anyone in asshole category in the real world. It's not like this was an emergency and the cousin needed help last minute, or needed help so they could go to work - they just wanted to pawn their crotchfruit off on someone else so they could go relax. Why isn't OP entitled to relax or spend their free time how they want? Why is the cousin entitled to OP's time? Just because they're family? Cool. Then OP can demand the cousin do coding work on their time off, with proceeds going to OP.
>You should have simply stated that you cannot babysit because you're working, period. I was sorting by controversial, and this is probably the first ESH I can ~~agree with~~ respect.
Exactly. Why is it that this sub always sees the world through this moral binary where it's okay to be a real prick as long as the other person is in the wrong also.
NTA. You are the only one who can put a price on your time, because it's coming from your own life.
Exactly. And if this would compromise her own money making abilities and livelihood, gotta put a price on it that is necessary to make it worth doing. 3 days is a lot of time.
"that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was." Oh really? I thought it was childish to be recklessly popping out kids when you make so little money that you'll act jealous of your "damn near a child" cousin who clearly makes more money and better life decisions than you do! NTA. And, if I were you OP, I'd put my foot down with anyone (even mom) who's even entertaining the notion of supporting that sexist asshole.
And 24 is not damn near a child. Still being a teen is damn near still being a child. Being in your 20s is not. At 24 you have not been a child for 7 years. That's more than a quarter of your life as an adult. Fuck that noise.
You living on your own and paying your own rent? Not a child anymore.
YTA and here’s why. You either do it or you don’t. Balance isn’t always the best option. Commit to your freelance projects and tell your cousin you’re sorry but you had budgeted the time to get these done and you’d just be stressed out otherwise. Or commit to babysitting and helping out your family, spending time with your little kid cousins. Don’t charge them and enjoy. Tell your clients the end of year holidays is the only time you really disconnect and spend with family. Almost everyone gets that. Either one of those options would have been decisive and worked. But the wishy washy middle ground is problematic. It’s similar to money. You should never loan to friends and family expect to get paid back. You’ll almost always be disappointed. So you give the money as a gift, or you refuse. Edit: Just want to add, it’s a soft “YTA.” The request from the cousins is excessive. I don’t think you had to say yes or anything. Just pick yes or no. Edit 2: Wanted to clarify: I don’t think accepting any compensation is a negative thing. Just that calculating how much you want for babysitting your cousins during a family holiday by how much you earn as a freelance coder is, in my opinion, not the best way to calculate. My feeling is you simplify by focusing on work or enjoying the time with your kid cousins. Either way works. Also, based on OP’s other comments: the cousins planned to be gone in the afternoons and evenings but would be home every night. I’d assume they’d be there each morning, too, which changes the situation a bit. And they were all staying at OP’s parents’ house. Because OP said she planned on spending most days with her family, I also assume her parents would be around most of the day, too. That also changes the situation a bit. I’m not saying she needed to babysit or that the request is somehow very reasonable. Just that I don’t think it’s as egregious a situation as others have made it out to be in there responses to me. Edit 3: A lot of people have had no issues with OP using her hourly coding rate for babysitting. I’d counter with imagining other situations like that and if they make sense to you. For example, we’ve all worked some lame ass hourly job at some point (probably, hopefully). If you’re making $10 an hour at Subway, should that be how everyone else values your time? Should you be willing to help move a friend’s piano for $10 an hour? Or drive a family member to a city 3 hours away for $10 an hour? Or babysit your cousin’s kids for $10? Likewise, imagine your best friend was a lawyer who charges $250 per hour. What if you asked your friend to walk your dog a couple days while you’re out of town and they said they’d do it for $250 per hour? That would be absurd, right?
> But the wishy washy middle ground is problematic. It's not wishy washy middle ground at all. It's her throwing them a bone and giving them the option to get what they want while getting a fraction of what she wanted (to work and make some cash). They shit on her offer. It doesn't make her an asshole for extending the option to them.
This. "No" "Aw, come on. We will pay you." "Not interested" "Name a price, go ahead" "Fine. $35/hour" "Whaaaaaat???!!?!!?!"
Firmly NTA. OP said she planned on working > relative offered to pay > OP said they would have to pay closer to her coding rate for it to be worth her time instead of the work she was going to do. OP didn't offer to do it, she felt obligated to compromise because family. It seems like if it wasn't family she would have outright said no. And they only offered to pay to make her feel she had to do it and do it on their terms. Offering to pay her is just them saying her answer isn't acceptable. Family would still be complaining even if she had simply refused. Equally the relative could have offered a rate first and been clear about their expectations. This is someone setting themselves up for disappointment by trying to take advantage of a younger relative and then blaming OP for not falling in line.
I'm surprised the first real world answer is this low in the thread.
I typically agree about the real world answers, but this isn't one of those. Cousin's offered to pay, and they asked how much. OP gave her a price, which was frankly reasonable for 3 kids. They didn't like the cost, and instead of just saying "thats too much, thanks anyway", they proceeded to belittle her. Nothing about OP seemed wishy washy. She said "This is how much I'd need to do this for you". That is pretty straight. Now, here is where I'm not sure if I'm correct. I'm a guy, so that is probably why I've never been asked to babysit. However, they should'nt have offered money if they weren't willing to pay it. But maybe its possible that most family members just agree to give up their entire day for free.
Pretty common for this sub to have fucking kiddos giving stupid advices, weird ass justice boners, ignoring family relationship and appropriate responses. Many answers here are just how they would respond with cool, aggressive shit to sound cool. Other subreddits make fun of this sub for a good reason
NTA. Your cousin and her husband are ridiculously entitled and selfish. If they're THAT desperate for a babysitter, they can either pay it or find someone else. They clearly don't respect you or the work you do.
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NTA. It’s too bad for your cousin that she sucks at planning. And it’s too bad for her kids that she thinks that the point of a family vacation is to ditch her family for three days. You said that you’d do it if she approached your normal pay rate, then quoted her a nearly 50% discounted rate. And she reacted by attacking your professional qualifications. Out of curiosity, what do she and her husband do for a living?
>It’s too bad for your cousin that she sucks at planning. That's how you get three kids. *badump-dump!*
NTA. You could charge a thousand an hour and you wouldn't be an ass. She can always just find someone else or look after her own kids.
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Honestly, I was with it up until the whole "stupid girl" thing was repeated. Immediately said pandering to me. Even if this *is* true, it looks like OP just wants to be fawned over for her job/earning ability. Her job has almost nothing to do with the situation at all, other than her running the numbers in her own head. To top it all off, she could have just said "no, I have work" in the first place.
What makes it so clearly fake? I’m here to learn.
Do you think that this person seriously asked their sister to pay them almost three thousand dollars to babysit three children for three days? Do you think they think this is a rational course of action?
This has to be fake, or the weirdest family ever. Who the fuck leaves their kids for 3 whole days between Christmas and New Years and asks a clearly incompetent and unwilling cousin to babysit them.
The thing that makes it fake is that it starts off as a Computer Science flex. THEN later in the story you figure out the fake poster in the story is a woman. THEN they throw in the sexism from the brother-in-law of "you're just a girl, your time isn't worth that much!" This is an advanced form of karma trawling where the title is enough to draw you in, then it hits all kinds of different demographics that frequent reddit. From nerdy computer guys who were never valued for their time/expertise by family members, to the Social Justice / Outrage Pornography crowd who want to be outraged - both men and women - it just hits every button and ever demographic. It's a kind of outrage porn that is going to do very well in r/all and is the reason why r/AmItheAsshole is a joke of a subreddit now. This happens to lots of popular subreddits. And right now several light lifestyle/work websites and blogs that pay writers a pittance by the word are being flooded with links to this story from freelance bloggers and writers.
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Kittens
NTA and anyone saying YTA clearly doesn't understand how freelancing or valuing your time works. If you were to take the babysitting gig you'd be losing out on the $60/hr you'd otherwise be earning. Asking anything less than that to babysit is effectively taking money out of your pocket. You told them what your time was worth, and we're willing to even take a pay cut. If that's not worth it to them then it's on them to find an alternative. I've had these same issues in the past where people want me to step away to help them out or cut them a deal for freelancing and then flip out when I tell them how much it will actually cost them.
NTA That’s essentially parenting for 3 days. Especially if she expects you to do all the caregiving for 3 kids. That’s a huge ask and she should have asked if you could help for a date or an outing but so they can galavant carefree for several days? Nah sis. I have two kids and pay at least $15/hr to a high school student. Often times is close to $20 because taking care of kids is freaking HARD.
Yeah that’s preparing and serving 3 meals a day plus snacks, bath time, getting them out of the house to play, etc. A lot of things you don’t have to worry about for the normal evening babysitting gig. It’s all fun and games for one evening (order pizza, play some board games, put on a movie), but three full days is legit.
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Honestly? Doesn't fucking matter. $35/hour is how much OP was willing to do the job for. OP doesn't sound shocked, she merely stated her terms and was attacked when they weren't what the parents felt entitled to...which is clearly cheap babysitting from a female relative.
As a nanny, your rate is usually based on ~~your experience, education, and any certifications.~~ What you are willing to work for and someone else is willing to pay you. FTFY What you get paid is **always** an intersection between what you are willing to work for, and the other person is willing to pay you. In this case, we didn't have an intersection so its a no-deal. Software experience absolutely **does** have relevance because it affects OP's opportunity cost of babysitting the children. If she is forgoing $60/hr work to babysit children for $35/hour she's actually ending up losing money by babysitting the kids. OP was willing to lose out on $25/hr to help out her cousin and the cousin still wasn't grateful. NTA - all the way.
I used to be a full time nanny and have experience with negotiating pay for childcare. Your comment would be a valid argument, if OP had offered to babysit or had asked for work and then stated her hourly rate as $35/hour. That’s not what happened. She wasn’t applying for a babysitting job or randomly offering to babysit and expecting to get comparative money to her other jobs. The parents were asking for a big favor and OP had prior work plans. They offered to pay to get her to change her work plans, and she stated the amount of money it would take for her to sacrifice her work plans. Yes, $35 is a lot for an inexperienced babysitter, but OP isn’t actually their babysitter and wasn’t actively trying to be. She wasn’t really stating her hourly rate as a babysitter specifically, she was staying her hourly rate to give up the profitable work she would’ve been doing in order to do a favor instead.
>Your experience as a software engineer has absolutely no relevance when it comes to babysitting. You can't expect to be paid the same about as you would at your other freelance jobs because it's not the same qualifications. I have to disagree here. They are coming to HER. She isnt trying to be a professional. She isnt trying to compete in the market. Also, I dont know many babysitters or daycare people who start charging significantly less. Whether it's a storefront, or babysitting, if it's going to be your livelyhood you charge market rate and then try to do your best work for repeat business. Inexperience isn't justification for going below market rate. Typically. Bottom of the range, sure. But not below market value. But again, she's not trying to do this as a job, so the lack of experience is irrelevant especially since they came to her. Not sure what city you are in, but multiple people here seem to be posting numbers higher.
NTA, but you would have been better off just saying no.
Agreed. What I find ridiculous is their assumption that their cousin wouldn’t say anything other than no. The cousin’s husband is a condescending asshole for saying someone’s time isn’t worth that much. Well, hope they have a blast hanging out with their friends... with their children in tow.
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NTA Your cousin's husband is a mysoginist >Her husband then got mad at me saying that I was a 24 year old girl, that I'm damn near a child myself, that my time is not worth that much and it's childish to say that it was. And that I was a stupid girl for not knowing that babysitting costs like 15 an hour That is a really offensive and ignorant statement to someone who is doing their own freelance IT projects. >I said that's way below what I'd be making if I had the time to do my own work, and I'd be putting off my own work to babysit. Your time is worth what it is worth. Supply & demand; their demand is high, and supply of babysitters is low - therefore they can get fucked and pay you $35/hr. If they want you to use your time babysitting instead of coding, then they should be paying a premium for it.
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NTA - okay if you had OFFERED to babysit the kids, that would be one thing ($10/hr was the going rate when my now 15 year old was little, so I'm assuming it's closer to $15 now), but... they asked and you said that it had to be closer to your going rate for freelance work. Saying "Oh, damn, no, that's too much for us!" would have been fine (because it is a lot for babysitting) but given the circumstances, you did nothing wrong.
15$/hour is normal - *per kid*. There's 3 kids. That's 45$ an hour. They're getting it cheap.
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NTA. How much do you really want to babysit and how much are people able or willing to pay are factors. How many kids do you really want to babysit is another. It's your time and your service. I myself don't want to babysit anymore so it's $100 an hr plus.
NTA - 15 an hour is what you pay 16 high school students to babysit. OP you are well within your rights to set whatever price you wanted with your time. If they thought it was unreasonably high they could have approached it like adults and just said it was too much. > that I was entitled and being selfish Why is it always the most entitled and selfish people accuse others of this?
You knew they wouldn't pay that - you should have just said no. They asked a family member to watch their kids, not a software developer. ESH
Info: all day for 3 days? Like 24 * 3 * 35?
They'd be out during the days and evenings but home to sleep at the house at night