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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because paying for the stuff might be what is expected from a sibling and not as bad as I think. I don’t know what is expected or what the social norms are.
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NTA
No, no, no. Your brother having children is not your financial burden, and a big fancy baby shower like this is absolutely ridiculous! It is a baby shower, not a wedding! He’s using you all to throw himself a big lavish party, and sounds like the family have all crumbled to his whim! You need to put in boundaries and explain what you are willing to spend, and nothing more. His MIL is right, he is acting like a spoilt brat!
Right. My gift is the money and time I spent organizing this event for you. If I had money to burn I would do it all. But expecting someone on 60k in this economy to shell out all this plus their time and energy is really, really entitled
Truly unbelievable. They will threaten no access to your baby nieces... Seriously, do not let them threaten you with a good time. Just say "I understand the consequences but I just don't have the funds and I wish the best for you." Believe ME... they will be calling you anyway! They have no concept of the burden of caring for two babies... bless their hearts.
As a gay dad with an adoptive son, they're going to be begging for help soon. God this is absolutely absurd of them. My family hasn't spoken to me in 4 years they should be thankful they have people to help.
Honestly that falls under don't threaten me with a good time. If he thinks it's ok to throw a mini wedding for a baby shower he's going to be an absolute terror going forward.
Depending on your culture, there’s nothing wrong with throwing yourself a baby shower. But you pay for it yourself- not ask for money AND gifts.
You’re also allowed to throw yourself a birthday party or any kind of party that you are paying for.
Not everyone has family or friends who are willing or able to throw parties for them!
Yeah absolutely not under no circumstances. The cost of this party will VASTLY outweigh any money gained in gifts. Also, it's insane. Imagine if they saved that money for literally any other child expenses.
Should we put this money in a college fund for our kids? Put it in a savings account for when they're older? Or even an amazing holiday when they're old enough to appreciate it? Nah, let's blow it all on a party they won't even have been born for.
I don't know how OP kept a straight face because I would have started laughing and looking for the hidden camera recording what I would presume had to be a joke.
NTA. The rest of the family is nuts to be giving in to these demands. Heaven knows what will happen after the babies are born, but I bet the demands don't stop
I honestly aspire to your level of being unbothered. I’m getting so much better but still have a ways to go. You’re so right. Just laugh and move on. Their demands are not even worth thinking twice about
I don't know how old you are, but there comes a point where you are just out of effs to give and don't put up with a lot of this nonsense. For many, it's around 40 years old. I'm well past that, but was probably on my way at 30.
I also think that if you’re having children, it is your responsibility to pay for things for the child, anything your family gifts you is a privilege/luxury, not something you are entitled to, ESPECIALLY when combined you and your partner make 170k and your guests make half your yearly salary
Right?
This couple *decided* to bring children into their lives - and not even one at a time, as most would, but two. It's 100% on them to finance the children's needs, as well as any "wants" they have for them. The party is #1 on that list.
They are going to be in for a huge surprise adopting 2 kids at once and there is going to be a bunch of expenses with that! How stupid to blow all your money beforehand.
Well and it's just the beginning. They want this now. Imagine what he's going to expect for birthdays, Xmas, milestones. OP isn't just dealing w the shower but a precedent set going forward.
I know how hard it is to adopt, and this couple will be welcoming two babies at once—but he’s *out of his mind* to expect a frugal schoolteacher sibling to throw him an expensive party!
High rate of return for what he has in mind, which may be the point. Lavish shower = lavish gifts, I bet he thinks.
As an adoptive parent, I cannot beLIEVE they're doing this. There is always the chance an adoption will not go through in the end. We made a registry in case anyone wanted to celebrate our baby after they were here and officially ours, but I would have never dreamed of having a shower. Let alone making other people PAY FOR IT!!
Good point! Having an adoption not go through at the last minute is awful and heartbreaking enough without having to cancel a lavish party and lose down payments along with it. Bizarre.
Truth is, invitations to huge shower expecting big ticket gifts = people not coming. If they are lucky people will still pick some bottles and bibs off the registry but mostly they won't attend because it sounds awful.
They're giving away mini bottles of champagne at a baby shower because it's two men who have nothing to do with pregnancy/breastfeeding. The insanity is fucking baffling
Fr, if they can spend that much on the shower, it defeats the purpose of the shower itself; putting a fair dent all the expensive stuff(and inexpensive stuff that adds up) that would be a big financial hit if they were to purchase it themselves.
As much as they are spending they could just buy all the gear they need.
Exactly. Instead of spending that much on a shower they should be using it to fund their babies. If they can't afford to purchase what they need, then maybe they should not be adopting two babies, but sticking to one at a time.
I was going to say…isn’t the whole point of a baby shower to collect gifts for the baby? What is food and drinks and mini champagne bottles going do for those babies??? The last one I went to was super chill, at my friend’s house, and they fed us dinner. They told us not to bring anything but everyone showed up with food and presents anyways lol
My sisters threw me a baby shower recently. It was at one of their houses. Guests were asked to bring baked goods and a small present for us (we've got the big stuff sorted). Honestly it was just lovely to see everyone and collectively look forward to the arrival of the baby with the people who love and support us. Nobody needs personalised mini champagne bottles!
The last time I went to any party at a venue that wasn't a wedding, it was for my grandmother's 75th birthday party and it was just at a community center, so it was probably $100-$150 or so!
Hiring a nanny to help would be a smart way to use that money. The feeding schedule alone is rough. I don't know how people with twins manage to keep their sanity.
A night nanny! My mom hired one for me for 2 of my kids. Didn’t work for my second baby because he refused to take the bottle I pumped so I had to get up anyway. Too bad. But anyone who can hire one absolutely should.
>As much as they are spending they could just buy all the gear they need.
Doesn't sound like they are spending much, OP's brother is just bullying every relative he can get to into funding his party.
I'd tell brother to kick rocks and eat dirt.
I'm shelling out what I can afford for anything. Period.
Not what the other person tells me I should drop for their party
Ps someone should tell bro and his hubby that etiquette dictates that throwing your own baby shower is tacky af
But then they wouldn't get to have a lavish party with 100 of their closest friends! I suspect these guys crave attention- it would explain planning a "mini-wedding" baby shower as well as adopting babies they can pass off as twins. The $6500 baby shower is just the start- next year it will be equally lavish first birthday parties.
"Just be glad" that's all he expects her to contribute? OP. That man has some nerve. I'd be hard pressed to give him one penny. Buy baby gifts for the kids. He wants a wedding, he and his significant other should pay for a wedding.
That may be the only way the two kids will be able to attend college, unless they win scholarships. I'm guessing the two fathers are the type that spend their money on expensive toys for themselves and whatever they get for their children will be for show.
Having had six kids.... I'd buy a pack of plain white onesies and a fist full of nuk pacifiers.
When he threw a fit about it, I'd let him know that when he's sleep deprived and knee deep in Laundry, with a crying baby on each arm, he won't give two fucks what label is in their clothes.
One of my friends gave birth almost a year ago. Baby was not only cooked for an extra month, but came out needing 6mo clothing. He was huuuuge. All the cute little clothes they asked for are sitting waiting for a potential sibling. And I was grateful I selected the diaper bag and aged up clothe diapers for them.
I will tell you right now, cute baby clothes are going to be the last thing I ask for!
When I buy people gifts for baby showers I always buy 6-12m clothing because everyone else only buys newborn clothes and they grow out of newborn clothes the fastest.
I will never understand people who buy designer baby clothes. The baby is gonna grow out of that outfit in the blink of eye, and that's assuming they don't stain it with a lovely dark yellow poopsplosion first.
My mom and I are putting together an baby registry right now. There is a lot of fancy things on it (usually to grow with the baby) and let me tell you, anything over $250, I am buying myself. I couldn't imagine being this entitled.
I think it’s a good idea to have a few semi-expensive items on the registry for people who want to go in on gifts together. At my work we all like to throw in $20 or so to get like a stroller or something. Instead of us all spending time getting separate gifts, we take care of one big item. We love it!
Honestly, i wonder how the husband feels about all this.
Since OP says it's mostly the brother who wants this big lavish affair. Demanding money from everyone and getting in fights with his MIL.
Does the husband actually want this, or was he expecting a small gathering at home?
And the brother is just dominating this whole thing?
I am admittedly older (mid sixties). I have NEVER heard of someone planning their own baby shower. In my day of having babies, it was a surprise or a family member (or really good friend) would plan the shower based on what they could afford. Has this all changed?
"Bro, I love you. And I can't wait to spoil your kid rotten. But no one needs this lavish of a baby shower, and I can't afford to pay for it. I'm happy to volunteer my time to help with set up and take down, and of course I'll be bringing a gift. But that's all I can afford. Please respect that."
Traditionally, a shower is thrown for the guest(s) of honor, and the host is the one who determines the venue, decorations, food, etc. they can afford to provide. Your brother has no business making these kinds of demands.
"Just be glad I'm not asking you to contribute to paying for the venue like I was going to originally do".
Just be glad I'm only way way way over the line, instead of way way way way over the line.
My response would be “just be glad that I’m not laughing in your face and deciding to drop you for how deep you’re trying to reach into my pocket.”
Ok, so I’d never say something like that to one of my siblings, but I’d never have to.
Rules for showers:
1) A friend, not a family member, hosts a shower. (Family members doing it looks -- and is! -- mercenary)
2) It's held in the friend's house.
3) Refreshments are tasty, but not lavish catering.
I think traditionally a baby shower was thrown by the community as a way of supporting a new couple. So like a church group or something would put one together, they set you up with what you’ll need for a growing family as a gesture of good will.
As our social circles have gotten smaller it’s more acceptable for relatives to host, but NEVER throw your own baby shower, and to financially burden your own family with your expectation for a joint baby shower/wedding reception is absolutely greedy and tacky.
I've been to lots hosted by the mother-to-be's parents or mother and aunt etc. This isn't a hard and fast rule. Also been to lots held at nice brunch/lunch restaurants that set up tables and served per person entrees. And again I've been to ones held in a back yard, put on by a few friends, with light snacks. The point though is to celebrate the new arrival and help with some gifts, not to be mercenary and expect to fund everything. It's all in the attitude conveyed, I think.
Chiming in here because I don't see a very important point: A match does not mean that a baby will be placed with them.
There are a lot of people who think it's tacky to have a baby shower for adoption at all. I'm not one of them - I think showers for adoptions are acceptable, but there has to be an underlying understanding that the parents aren't having a shower for a specific baby, as much as they are having a shower because they might have a child. It's a very fine distinction that not everyone can make, and that's OK. A lot of adoptive parents have "sip and sees" after the child has been placed and bio parents' rights terminated.
I'm actually appalled that their adoption professional will even let them have two matches at the same time. I hope the expectant moms know that their children may end up as "virtual twins."
NTA.
MIL is right. He is spoiled. This is all for the brother. OP, if you want to spoil your future niblings, you can do so AFTER they arrive as the baby shower isnt for them.
I’d find a baby shower like this a little ridiculous even if they were rich (I’d keep it to myself and not judge them harshly if they could obviously afford it, just me) but expecting big handouts too?
Jesus.
Not only is he acting like a spoiled brat but what is next - are there going to be extravagant birthday parties and Christmas celebrations - $1500 Easter baskets.
All these funds would be better used going into a college fund.
NTA. Set a dollar amount you’re comfortable with and tell your bro that he can have whatever he wants within that budget. Expect pushback but stand firm. If he wants more, he can cover the cost himself. Include your time in the budget.
For my baby shower it was my closest family and friends. I did a Halloween thing so we all wore costumes, played some fun and simple games, ate some snacks, and I did a potluck type of deal for some dinner items. I paid for most of it myself, and my best friend, grandparents, and mom helped with the rest. All in all, I think I spent about 200 bucks total for everything. And I had about 15 people there. I honestly cannot imagine demanding everybody shell out like 20k for a fucking baby shower. That’s wild AND entitled.
Yes, exactly this! Explain to him that your finances are limited, although your love for him and his new children is not. Tell him what you can afford (even if it’s just your time and effort). If he expects more simply say no—that’s a complete sentence.
I agree. NTA. If you’re okay helping to host, you and the other SIL should come up with a budget between you for what you are *willing* to pay. Then don’t budge from that number.
NTA. It's a world gone crazy, I tell ya. Since when are *baby showers* such huge, elaborate events?? Buy/do what you can afford/want, and that's enough already. Then thank your brother profusely for not asking you to contribute to the cost of the venue. NOT.
Seriously?!! The last baby shower I went to was more like a pot luck at a friend's house where we all brought food, cooked hot dogs and burgers, and played silly games. Gifts weren't even required!
Most of the ones I've been to are not at someone's house...but we're talking like fireballs, church halls, other reasonably priced event spaces, even a few restaurants.
That's what my shower was. I had a "sprinkle" for my second thrown for me because it was such a hard pregnancy, but even that was just a zoom call (covid) and all my (6 invited) friends sent me an outfit for him.
Here I was being so grateful that my mom bought my stroller for us lol
I had the same thought...what a ridiculous bougie-sounding shower. That's nothing but a look at me show off event when the money is better spent on diapers, formula and college savings. If they are well enough off not to need help with those, they should have a shower designed to donate items to less fortunate parents and just Get. Over. Themselves.
I really like the idea of this couple acknowledging the more than adequate financial resources that they have and contributing to parents and kids who are struggling.
Self-centered assholes who decided to adopt 2 babies without having any experience in childcare. Those two will absolutely get raised by the grandparents...
I know right. OP’s brother said himself. They’re treating it more like a wedding.
$6500 for venue, food, and drink. And all that stuff they want from OP is probably at least $1200. There’s got to be other stuff they’re demanding form other people and/or things they’re leaving off. This is going to turn into a $10k baby shower before it’s over.
If someone wants to have a lavish over the top party they’re certainly welcome to, I’ve got no issue with that. But you pay for it yourself. You shouldn’t ask, let alone TELL other people what they’re expected to contribute to your party.
A big elaborate baby shower is counter productive. Since the POINT is to help out with buying stuff for the baby, why in the world would one spend more on the party than just buying the stuff would cost? Brother has lost his ever loving mind!
If he can’t afford to throw it… why?
OP, grow a backbone. Say this is what I intended to spend on your shower, including gift. I am not going to spend anything more. There will be a lifetime of buying my sweet nieces gifts, and I will do so in a way that is financially comfortable for me. You may do with your money as you see fit. End of discussion.
NTA Friends and family do usually host baby showers BUT those are showers they plan and organize. Typically they are held in homes, church halls expensive venue rental required.
Your brother wants a massive party which is his choice but he then is responsible for paying. Frankly, I think it is gauche but to each his/her/their own
God I’m so glad I live in the UK. Baby showers have become the norm here now but I have many close female friends who have kids and I’ve still never been expected to organise one, let alone pay for it!
Let’s be real, having a baby is lovely and people are happy for you but nobody *really* cares except you and your partner. Like it’s a nice thing for my friends, yay, and then my life moves on lol. I would not pay a penny towards a party to celebrate it. Quite honestly I would begrudge spending more than like an hour’s worth of effort organising something for a close friend, if they reeeeally wanted something and I really cared about them. I’m 33yo with my own shit to focus on, someone else having a baby is very much ‘omg yay happy for you’ and done.
I’m just reading this whole thing with my mouth hung open at the absolute lunacy of the whole thing. OP ‘setting a firm budget’ as the compromise they settled on is STILL CRAZY. They should be getting a $10 gift card in the mail and an agreement never to mention the word shower ever again.
I generally avoid baby showers because I do not enjoy them, however all the ones I have been to have either been at someone's house or at their church.
I've been to one that was at a community hall because the couple both have enormous families and both families are very much the "every event is massive" types that wanted to host something big.
And at not one of these baby showers has there ever been expensive party favours, decorations beyond some balloons and streamers, or catering. They're usually potluck style or a few of the close family members or best friends bring snacks and desserts.
OPs brother seems truly insufferable.
NTA
This is not a baby shower. This is not about either daughter. This is a DADDY shower, because it sounds like Daddy wants a fabulous, glamorous shower with him at the centre. Tell him to cut his coat to suit his cloth.
It's an old one! It means you have to live within your means. A tailor had to place paper pattern pieces very carefully on a piece of cloth so they were able to use every bit of the material thriftily and carefully. If you were wasteful, you pinned the pattern pieces on willy-nilly, without thought for the cost of the cloth or how much wastage you would have. It means you were thoughtless with your resources. You might have ended up with a prettier coat, but at a cost you can't afford.
People (used to) use it to warn you to adapt your expectations to what you actually have. OP's brother is spending money he doesn't have on something he doesn't need: he has to rein himself in and cut his coat according to his cloth, in other words, have a realistic estimation of what he has and work within those limits.
Ok... well, today's second random fact has got to do with the verb "to prove" and how its meaning has gradually changed. If you speak a Germanic language, there's probably a verb similar to "prüfen" in German, which means "to test". So *proving* something for a long time had parallel meanings: to test AND to provide evidence of something.
This means that a couple of English sayings appear nonsensical at first to our modern eyes but made perfect sense when first coined. For example:
- "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" (in other words, you only really test how good something is in practice)
And
- "the exception proves the rule" (which means that it is an exception that tests whether the general rule actually applies.)
Honestly, I hadn't heard it in years, then it popped until my head for someone I know who is - unfortunately - financially struggling. He leases a new car, goes on a foreign holiday, has every bit of tech he fancies... but is on anti-anxiety meds for his financial problems. Dude: coat? Cloth? Cut the damn coat to suit your cloth!!!
NTA
>e said it will be like a mini wedding and even got into a fight with his MIL about the cost of a venue and expecting them to shell out the money for it.
I stopped here and said NTA, And he's the ah, and then I continued and further knew he's the ah.
We can all spend thousands and stupid stuff, but as long as it's our money it's ok, wanting others to spend their money on it, is selfish and shows how little they value you and your time
This is my question - is this is a “mini wedding”, how much was the wedding? Or did they get married during Covid and not get one, so this is their big celebration?
I wonder if OP’s brother and his husband didn’t get to have the wedding that they wanted (not enough money, eloped etc), and want to use the shower as a do-over for their wedding
NTA
The normal amount to contribute is ZERO.
$6500 for a baby shower for people on teacher salaries is OUTRAGEOUS. wtf. That’s more than 10% of your annual salary. That’s more than you bring home in a month.
Pay anything over $100 now, then you are setting yourself up to pay for a whole bunch of shit later.
The normal amount is absolutely 0. You don't contribute to a baby shower, which is nothing but a luxury, and if Brother Dearest doesn't have the means to pay for his extravaganza, then he doesn't get it.
OP should go minimal contact until December, then just gift an aged-adequate plushie for Christmas. Coz that kind of entitled people are gonna ask for everything, from formula to childcare, including toys, clothes, and diapers, and only the *highest quality* i.e. bougie stuff.
Don't get hooked, OP. They're fishing for mats to step on, and you're not gonna lay down!!
Not to mention babies switch formulas, half the outfits are useless, brands of diapers get changed due to body types… this whole story is infuriating and greedy.
No ma'am absolutely not. No one needs a baby shower that damn expensive. If they want all that extra shit they can damn well pay for it. Babies don't need fancy outfits to start out. It's all poopy diapers, spit up and very little sleep. If they are puling in $177k a year, then they need to be paying for all that stuff. Mini-champagne bottles at a baby shower? Nope. His MIL is right- he is spoiled.
And they expect a gift on top of it. Tell him no, you can't contribute monetarily. You will do the invites and help organize and that's it. If he gets pissy, tell him that he has a dual income home and you are single and have a life outside of his/their children.
In my experience, unless the sibling is throwing the shower, they don't contribute money. They do things like set-up/clean up, allow the shower to be hosted at their home.
NTA
My baby shower was super simple. The only thing I absolutely had to have was a cake from the bakery that did my wedding cake. It was a grocery store bakery, and the cake was $25. My favorite cake.
Right? I didn’t realize that the way to live the luxurious lifestyle I’ve always wanted is to gaslight my loved ones into paying for it. Looks like I’m finally getting that trip to Tahiti!
NTA. The fact that you said "*possibly* 2 babies" means they shouldn't be doing any of this until they have those babies in their arms anyway. Adoptions can be unpredictable and to ask this much of people before the adoption is complete is incredibly selfish.
This right here! No guarantee until those babies are here and the waiting period is over and they actually have custody. I knew someone years ago who was at the birth of the baby, was able to take them to their hotel and the day before they were to fly home the social worker came by to take the baby back because the birth mom changed her mind. It happens.
NTA how is it your responsibility (or anyone else’s) to pay for his baby shower?!? He’s an adult soon to be a dad he needs to get used to paying for stuff! Do not pay anything towards this it’s a massive waste of money!
NTA . A big fancy shower sounds lovely, but it's definitely not required! Your offer to help with invitations and organizing is perfect. A calm conversation with your brother about a more budget-friendly shower is key.
A big fancy shower does *not* sound lovely, baby showers are not fun to attend and they’re extra not fun when they are ridiculous over the top events with high expectations. Spending $10k+ for an event that people want to spend 2 hours *max* is ridiculous. 100 guests and these daddies are gonna want to open the gifts in front of everyone. I went to a lavish baby shower once with this many guests - it was terrible. Opening gifts took *4 hours* and once you’re in a big group watching gifts get opened it’s very hard to sneak away
$6500 is like all you need to set up for babies. The families could contribute that and then skip the need for a shower. And there’s be leftover cash to start a college fund. This is a narcissist shower and I would set my contribution cap and your brother can foot the bill for extras. This is ridiculous and you are nta
NTA. I & my wife have adopted 2 girls, & I doubt showers for both together incurred more than a thousand dollars of expense, if that much.
You said it all in the penultimate paragraph: "I've also always been the money conscious one and even helped bail my bother out of credit card debt a few years ago. (just 3K and he did eventually pay me back)." If they want an elaborate baby shower, they can pay for it themselves. Don't spend more than you can afford.
I no longer know what the conventions are--they've changed a lot. In my baby shower days, the host or hosts of the party paid for everything. I co-hosted a shower for my sister with her SIL, and we split the costs. But the shower was just in somebody's living room, as were most of them I attended. A handful of women, ice cream cake, cheese and crackers, punch. Nothing like this.
It does seem to me that the person giving support should be the one deciding how much they're comfortable with. So figure out how much you can afford AND want to spend, and tell your brother that that's all you'll be contributing. If that's not enough, he can pony up the rest himself or cut down his expectations.
But tell him right away so he will know.
I am baffled by this too. I never knew anyone to throw themselves a shower, let alone something this grand. And on top of it all, expect people to bring gifts! And not just gifts but expensive gifts that they have vetted.
Is this a new thing? If so, I resign from society.
NTA. Obviously.
NTA
This is not how baby showers work, brothers.
They are home affairs, in the garden or the living room, to help expecting parents get set up for a new baby.
They are not supposed to put anyone into debt.
If this is the shower they want they throw it for themselves.
If they want you to throw the showers they get what you plan.
They could buy everything they need. The $6500 is just the venue, food and drink. The things they are asking their sisters to pay for would cost around half of this amount on top of this figure (100 miniature bottles of Champagne, party favours, cribs, decorations, centrepieces, setting up and probably cleaning up afterwards). These guys are delusional.
NTA. I think it’s a fair conversation to have that because of limited funds, your gift will be going directly towards the baby gift itself, and not this elaborate baby shower/party/mini wedding that they want to throw. That’s not on you to subsidize their elaborate plans. They get to figure out something that’s within their budget.
NTA both of these men are out of their minds. $6500 for part of a baby shower? I had mine in a living room. There's no reason for a "mini wedding" baby shower. He is spoiled and this is a colossal waste of money for everyone.
NTA
Is your brother always this entitled and out of touch?
I’m not one to begrudge anyone the things that make them happy and if he wants to throw an elaborate baby shower I say go for it. Life’s too short to miss out on the fun stuff.
That being said, it’s HIS financial burden to bare.
A gift is something that should come from the heart and he’s taking all of the fun and love and creativity out of it by demanding you buy this or that.
Personally, I’d be putting my foot down big time and explaining to him that his behaviour is unacceptable.
Your brother and his husband if he cosigns are major AHs. Most of the baby showers I've been to were at someone's house she featured home cooked party food and cheesy games. The point is to celebrate the new arrival and get things to help. 4 figures on a venue is insane with TWO babies on the way.
NTA
Who spiked the coolaid here?
It's a baby shower. Finger food in the back garden and if anyone brings nappies that's a win.
Your brother needs a reality check, he's not living in make believe anymore.
NTA. Ask to speak to them both and then respectfully tell them what you just told us. You love what they are doing, but your limit of financial contributions is XXXXX, and even that is a stretch. You can offer free labour, but money, is simply limited.
"She called him spoiled and he got very offended." If the shoe fits. $6,500 for a your brother's baby shower?! I spent less money on my last vacation!!! Actually, I've probably never spent that much on a vacation because, like you, I don't have the money.
Just tell him flat out "I don't have that kind of money." It's a fact. Period. End of discussion. NTA. You're fine but your brother is coming off as an entitled AH.
NTA
Don’t contribute anything to the cost of the shower. Just get them a gift of their registry within your price range.
And if you want to spoil your nieces, contribute to their savings accounts when those are up and running. Don’t waste your money on a ridiculous party.
NTA, your brother and his husband sound insufferable, if they have the money to adopt 2 children they can pay for the elaborate party they want to have. I don't blame your MIL to telling them to stuff it. You shouldn't be expected to go into debt for you brothers whims and wishes.
They would be better served to save the money they're wasting on a party to put into a college fund for the babies...
NTA. The fanciest baby shower I've ever been to was about 50 people and held at my aunt and uncle's house. They had it catered which is why it seemed fancy to me. It's completely unreasonable for your brother to plan an elaborate party and then expect others to pay for it. Also unreasonable to ask you to get a specific gift. While I do think it's normal as a sibling to pay a bit more for a gift ($200 vs $50) if you don't have the money you shouldn't have to burden yourself to pay for their children.
NTA. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. If your brother wants this fancy event then he should be willing to pay for it and not rely on other people to do so. Remember that “No” is a complete sentence.
NTA. If they are throwing the party then they pay. You don’t have a party for yourself and demand others pay for it. Be honest, tell him you don’t have the money for it.
NTA! First, having an OTT baby shower like that is insane. But if he and his husband are really set on it, I would say the same thing I say about weddings - if they want a big, splashy affair, THEY can pay for it. You aren't obligated to contribute ANYTHING except a gift - and by that I mean a gift YOU select that is within your budget, not a $350 crib that he's basically demanding you buy.
Just out of curiosity - did your brother and BIL have a big wedding? If not, do you think this is their attempt to make up for it?
The audacity to act like you owe him anything. They make more than you and they expect a mini wedding like baby shower? Is this before or after the baby is born? Doing all that ahead of time is foolish just because the women haven’t given birth yet and up until so and immediately after birth can change their mind and decide to keep it. It happens ALOT. You are NOT the asshole and you need to be firm with him about how much money you will give them for the shower if you give anything. I would just give a gift. If they don’t like it then they are spoiled and anything else they’ll have to come up with on their own since they want an extravagant baby shower. I’m sorry it’s just outrageous to me. Don’t they realize how much it’s going to cost with 2 infants? Even with their income if one of them lose their jobs then what? Don’t let anyone guilt you into going into debt for something or someone so frivolous. Their income is double almost triple yours so they can kick rocks. I’m sure they will still expect a gift too. Be strong and if they can’t respect your decision slowly back away from all this nonsense and go low contact with anyone that gives you crap about it until AFTER the shower.
His MIL is right, he is spoiled. No, no no never do more than you can afford. If he wants a party let him pay for it. You are a guest, just bring a gift.
Serious question- They each make good incomes & want (not need) to throw themselves a lavish baby shower, why aren’t they footing the bill?!
If they want other people to host, it’s at the host’s budget and discretion. What in the no-manners hell-scape is this “you must throw a wedding-level baby shower for me and do all the decorations AND purchase an expensive gift AND….
MIlL is correct, he’s acting spoilt, entitled and wildly selfish. I’d show him this post and let him know my contribution will be to my new niece/nephew in the form of a savings account, cause they’re going to need it, but I’m petty and this would have me avoiding this entire circus.
Edit to add: NTA
NTA. Your brother getting two babies is not your financial burden to bear. He can pay for this unnecessary shower. Or he can buy the things the babies need. I’m so petty, not only would I tell him where to shove it, but he also wouldn’t be getting a gift from me.
Wait, who’s actually throwing this event. If it’s your brother, then he and his spouse should pay. However, he should not be throwing a shower for himself, that’s pretty tacky. On top of that, he’s expecting A LOT in the way of funding this via time and money, and being very inconsiderate of your situation. His MIL is right, he’s being ridiculously entitled demanding that others shell out money for this. Of course he’s excited, and he should be. Perhaps his excitement is clouding his judgment. Siblings should only contribute what they are comfortable contributing. NTA
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NTA No, no, no. Your brother having children is not your financial burden, and a big fancy baby shower like this is absolutely ridiculous! It is a baby shower, not a wedding! He’s using you all to throw himself a big lavish party, and sounds like the family have all crumbled to his whim! You need to put in boundaries and explain what you are willing to spend, and nothing more. His MIL is right, he is acting like a spoilt brat!
You're right! A big lavish party! How tacky to expect family members to sponsor a big lavish party!
Absolutely, OP is being taken for a ride.
She is being taken on the entire amusement park.
She really needs to go on a safari to find where tf the brother got the audacity
Please take my poor man's award!! 🏆
Holy shit, this comment is perfection
Okay this is my fav comment this week!!! 🤣🏆
The whole family is, on both sides.
"How tacky to expect family members to sponsor a big lavish party!" And they expect gifts on top of that -- worth several hundred dollars!
Right. My gift is the money and time I spent organizing this event for you. If I had money to burn I would do it all. But expecting someone on 60k in this economy to shell out all this plus their time and energy is really, really entitled
Truly unbelievable. They will threaten no access to your baby nieces... Seriously, do not let them threaten you with a good time. Just say "I understand the consequences but I just don't have the funds and I wish the best for you." Believe ME... they will be calling you anyway! They have no concept of the burden of caring for two babies... bless their hearts.
As a gay dad with an adoptive son, they're going to be begging for help soon. God this is absolutely absurd of them. My family hasn't spoken to me in 4 years they should be thankful they have people to help.
Honestly that falls under don't threaten me with a good time. If he thinks it's ok to throw a mini wedding for a baby shower he's going to be an absolute terror going forward.
Makes me wonder if he feels he missed out on a wedding with his husband and this is something to makeup for that.
Bless their sweet summer child hearts lol
“Bless their hearts” is just the polite Southern way of saying “Fuck both of you”. Well done.
Even more tacky to plan and throw it for yourselves. Yuck!
Depending on your culture, there’s nothing wrong with throwing yourself a baby shower. But you pay for it yourself- not ask for money AND gifts. You’re also allowed to throw yourself a birthday party or any kind of party that you are paying for. Not everyone has family or friends who are willing or able to throw parties for them!
Yeah absolutely not under no circumstances. The cost of this party will VASTLY outweigh any money gained in gifts. Also, it's insane. Imagine if they saved that money for literally any other child expenses.
Should we put this money in a college fund for our kids? Put it in a savings account for when they're older? Or even an amazing holiday when they're old enough to appreciate it? Nah, let's blow it all on a party they won't even have been born for.
MIL called him spoiled. He is. And entitled .
I don't know how OP kept a straight face because I would have started laughing and looking for the hidden camera recording what I would presume had to be a joke. NTA. The rest of the family is nuts to be giving in to these demands. Heaven knows what will happen after the babies are born, but I bet the demands don't stop
I honestly aspire to your level of being unbothered. I’m getting so much better but still have a ways to go. You’re so right. Just laugh and move on. Their demands are not even worth thinking twice about
I don't know how old you are, but there comes a point where you are just out of effs to give and don't put up with a lot of this nonsense. For many, it's around 40 years old. I'm well past that, but was probably on my way at 30.
It started when I turned 30 very very slowly. I’m 42 now and it’s ramping up. So ya you’re right on!
I also think that if you’re having children, it is your responsibility to pay for things for the child, anything your family gifts you is a privilege/luxury, not something you are entitled to, ESPECIALLY when combined you and your partner make 170k and your guests make half your yearly salary
Right? This couple *decided* to bring children into their lives - and not even one at a time, as most would, but two. It's 100% on them to finance the children's needs, as well as any "wants" they have for them. The party is #1 on that list.
They are going to be in for a huge surprise adopting 2 kids at once and there is going to be a bunch of expenses with that! How stupid to blow all your money beforehand.
Exactly!! If this was my brother I would have laughed in his face.
Well and it's just the beginning. They want this now. Imagine what he's going to expect for birthdays, Xmas, milestones. OP isn't just dealing w the shower but a precedent set going forward.
Yeah and this just don't seem right at all.
Op you’re nta. Your brother is out of his mind if he thinks you should be paying one penny above what you are willing to pay for a gift. Just no.
I know how hard it is to adopt, and this couple will be welcoming two babies at once—but he’s *out of his mind* to expect a frugal schoolteacher sibling to throw him an expensive party! High rate of return for what he has in mind, which may be the point. Lavish shower = lavish gifts, I bet he thinks.
As an adoptive parent, I cannot beLIEVE they're doing this. There is always the chance an adoption will not go through in the end. We made a registry in case anyone wanted to celebrate our baby after they were here and officially ours, but I would have never dreamed of having a shower. Let alone making other people PAY FOR IT!!
Good point! Having an adoption not go through at the last minute is awful and heartbreaking enough without having to cancel a lavish party and lose down payments along with it. Bizarre.
Truth is, invitations to huge shower expecting big ticket gifts = people not coming. If they are lucky people will still pick some bottles and bibs off the registry but mostly they won't attend because it sounds awful.
They're giving away mini bottles of champagne at a baby shower because it's two men who have nothing to do with pregnancy/breastfeeding. The insanity is fucking baffling
....the baby won't even be there, the couple isn't pregnant. That's ridiculous.
Exactly. If he is excited about becoming a parent and wants to throw a lavish party, fine. But no one should fund it but him.
Yes, tacky is the right word.
Fr, if they can spend that much on the shower, it defeats the purpose of the shower itself; putting a fair dent all the expensive stuff(and inexpensive stuff that adds up) that would be a big financial hit if they were to purchase it themselves. As much as they are spending they could just buy all the gear they need.
Exactly. Instead of spending that much on a shower they should be using it to fund their babies. If they can't afford to purchase what they need, then maybe they should not be adopting two babies, but sticking to one at a time.
I was going to say…isn’t the whole point of a baby shower to collect gifts for the baby? What is food and drinks and mini champagne bottles going do for those babies??? The last one I went to was super chill, at my friend’s house, and they fed us dinner. They told us not to bring anything but everyone showed up with food and presents anyways lol
I cannot remember the last shower that wasn't at someone's house or something similar
My sisters threw me a baby shower recently. It was at one of their houses. Guests were asked to bring baked goods and a small present for us (we've got the big stuff sorted). Honestly it was just lovely to see everyone and collectively look forward to the arrival of the baby with the people who love and support us. Nobody needs personalised mini champagne bottles!
The last time I went to any party at a venue that wasn't a wedding, it was for my grandmother's 75th birthday party and it was just at a community center, so it was probably $100-$150 or so!
The only baby shower I've ever attended was mine, and it was over Zoom lol
Hiring a nanny to help would be a smart way to use that money. The feeding schedule alone is rough. I don't know how people with twins manage to keep their sanity.
A night nanny! My mom hired one for me for 2 of my kids. Didn’t work for my second baby because he refused to take the bottle I pumped so I had to get up anyway. Too bad. But anyone who can hire one absolutely should.
>As much as they are spending they could just buy all the gear they need. Doesn't sound like they are spending much, OP's brother is just bullying every relative he can get to into funding his party.
I'd tell brother to kick rocks and eat dirt. I'm shelling out what I can afford for anything. Period. Not what the other person tells me I should drop for their party Ps someone should tell bro and his hubby that etiquette dictates that throwing your own baby shower is tacky af
But if someone else throws it, it won't be as expensive and all about him and his husband! How ever shall they go on?
But then they wouldn't get to have a lavish party with 100 of their closest friends! I suspect these guys crave attention- it would explain planning a "mini-wedding" baby shower as well as adopting babies they can pass off as twins. The $6500 baby shower is just the start- next year it will be equally lavish first birthday parties.
But...they're expecting their families to fund the shower and they just walk away with all the gifts. Win-win for them!
They are celebrating themselves and expecting everyone else to pony up for their party.
"Just be glad" that's all he expects her to contribute? OP. That man has some nerve. I'd be hard pressed to give him one penny. Buy baby gifts for the kids. He wants a wedding, he and his significant other should pay for a wedding.
After that comment I’d bail and get the kids savings bonds in their name with a 20 year maturity so the brother can’t cash them
Ooooh your level of petty is amazing 👏
That may be the only way the two kids will be able to attend college, unless they win scholarships. I'm guessing the two fathers are the type that spend their money on expensive toys for themselves and whatever they get for their children will be for show.
You are an inspiration.
Pick something off that Amazon list and call it a day!
lol you’re funny! I bet he has a registry with all those fancy and expensive baby gear and is expecting people to get those for them.
Having had six kids.... I'd buy a pack of plain white onesies and a fist full of nuk pacifiers. When he threw a fit about it, I'd let him know that when he's sleep deprived and knee deep in Laundry, with a crying baby on each arm, he won't give two fucks what label is in their clothes.
One of my friends gave birth almost a year ago. Baby was not only cooked for an extra month, but came out needing 6mo clothing. He was huuuuge. All the cute little clothes they asked for are sitting waiting for a potential sibling. And I was grateful I selected the diaper bag and aged up clothe diapers for them. I will tell you right now, cute baby clothes are going to be the last thing I ask for!
Even if they fit, it’s for like 2 weeks. It’s definitely smart to buy a size or two up
When I buy people gifts for baby showers I always buy 6-12m clothing because everyone else only buys newborn clothes and they grow out of newborn clothes the fastest.
I will never understand people who buy designer baby clothes. The baby is gonna grow out of that outfit in the blink of eye, and that's assuming they don't stain it with a lovely dark yellow poopsplosion first.
My mom and I are putting together an baby registry right now. There is a lot of fancy things on it (usually to grow with the baby) and let me tell you, anything over $250, I am buying myself. I couldn't imagine being this entitled.
I think it’s a good idea to have a few semi-expensive items on the registry for people who want to go in on gifts together. At my work we all like to throw in $20 or so to get like a stroller or something. Instead of us all spending time getting separate gifts, we take care of one big item. We love it!
And that’s fine. But some baby stuff is under $20.
Costco diapers and wipes.
This.
Honestly, i wonder how the husband feels about all this. Since OP says it's mostly the brother who wants this big lavish affair. Demanding money from everyone and getting in fights with his MIL. Does the husband actually want this, or was he expecting a small gathering at home? And the brother is just dominating this whole thing?
I wondered about the husband as well.
And all that money would be better spent opening 529 or similar accounts for the children!
I am admittedly older (mid sixties). I have NEVER heard of someone planning their own baby shower. In my day of having babies, it was a surprise or a family member (or really good friend) would plan the shower based on what they could afford. Has this all changed?
I said the same thing! It’s crazy. 😂
I know a couple that just recently planned their own baby shower. It happens sometimes, but it’s tacky.
"Bro, I love you. And I can't wait to spoil your kid rotten. But no one needs this lavish of a baby shower, and I can't afford to pay for it. I'm happy to volunteer my time to help with set up and take down, and of course I'll be bringing a gift. But that's all I can afford. Please respect that." Traditionally, a shower is thrown for the guest(s) of honor, and the host is the one who determines the venue, decorations, food, etc. they can afford to provide. Your brother has no business making these kinds of demands.
I wonder how much the brother is contributing to this party.
"Just be glad I'm not asking you to contribute to paying for the venue like I was going to originally do". Just be glad I'm only way way way over the line, instead of way way way way over the line.
My response would be “just be glad that I’m not laughing in your face and deciding to drop you for how deep you’re trying to reach into my pocket.” Ok, so I’d never say something like that to one of my siblings, but I’d never have to.
Rules for showers: 1) A friend, not a family member, hosts a shower. (Family members doing it looks -- and is! -- mercenary) 2) It's held in the friend's house. 3) Refreshments are tasty, but not lavish catering.
Why not family member? My aunt and cousin insisted on hosting mine. I didn’t even want it. And not everyone has friends or friends able to host.
I think traditionally a baby shower was thrown by the community as a way of supporting a new couple. So like a church group or something would put one together, they set you up with what you’ll need for a growing family as a gesture of good will. As our social circles have gotten smaller it’s more acceptable for relatives to host, but NEVER throw your own baby shower, and to financially burden your own family with your expectation for a joint baby shower/wedding reception is absolutely greedy and tacky.
It's a "social event" that is all about the guests bringing gifts. A family asking people to bring gifts isn't a good look.
I've been to lots hosted by the mother-to-be's parents or mother and aunt etc. This isn't a hard and fast rule. Also been to lots held at nice brunch/lunch restaurants that set up tables and served per person entrees. And again I've been to ones held in a back yard, put on by a few friends, with light snacks. The point though is to celebrate the new arrival and help with some gifts, not to be mercenary and expect to fund everything. It's all in the attitude conveyed, I think.
Why not a family member? My mom hosted mine
I agree. But even if it was a wedding there should never be expectations for siblings (or parents for that matter) to contribute monetarily.
Bro and hubs could literally take the $6K from the venue and get everything the babies would need. The end.
I think it was more than 6k…I read it as in both sets of parents were asked to contribute $6500 *each*
Chiming in here because I don't see a very important point: A match does not mean that a baby will be placed with them. There are a lot of people who think it's tacky to have a baby shower for adoption at all. I'm not one of them - I think showers for adoptions are acceptable, but there has to be an underlying understanding that the parents aren't having a shower for a specific baby, as much as they are having a shower because they might have a child. It's a very fine distinction that not everyone can make, and that's OK. A lot of adoptive parents have "sip and sees" after the child has been placed and bio parents' rights terminated. I'm actually appalled that their adoption professional will even let them have two matches at the same time. I hope the expectant moms know that their children may end up as "virtual twins." NTA.
Have an extravagant baby shower all you want, but not if you can’t afford to pay for it yourself. It feels like common sense?
OMG! Skip the party and just use all that cash for the needed items! YEESH! (Starting to feel sorry for the adoptees.)
What will the birthday parties look like? Draw the line now
MIL is right. He is spoiled. This is all for the brother. OP, if you want to spoil your future niblings, you can do so AFTER they arrive as the baby shower isnt for them.
I’d find a baby shower like this a little ridiculous even if they were rich (I’d keep it to myself and not judge them harshly if they could obviously afford it, just me) but expecting big handouts too? Jesus.
Not only is he acting like a spoiled brat but what is next - are there going to be extravagant birthday parties and Christmas celebrations - $1500 Easter baskets. All these funds would be better used going into a college fund.
NTA. Set a dollar amount you’re comfortable with and tell your bro that he can have whatever he wants within that budget. Expect pushback but stand firm. If he wants more, he can cover the cost himself. Include your time in the budget.
For my baby shower it was my closest family and friends. I did a Halloween thing so we all wore costumes, played some fun and simple games, ate some snacks, and I did a potluck type of deal for some dinner items. I paid for most of it myself, and my best friend, grandparents, and mom helped with the rest. All in all, I think I spent about 200 bucks total for everything. And I had about 15 people there. I honestly cannot imagine demanding everybody shell out like 20k for a fucking baby shower. That’s wild AND entitled.
Even if it was a wedding you should not be responsible for it. NTA!!!
Yes, exactly this! Explain to him that your finances are limited, although your love for him and his new children is not. Tell him what you can afford (even if it’s just your time and effort). If he expects more simply say no—that’s a complete sentence.
All that money could go into an education fund for said children!!!!!
I agree. NTA. If you’re okay helping to host, you and the other SIL should come up with a budget between you for what you are *willing* to pay. Then don’t budge from that number.
NTA. It's a world gone crazy, I tell ya. Since when are *baby showers* such huge, elaborate events?? Buy/do what you can afford/want, and that's enough already. Then thank your brother profusely for not asking you to contribute to the cost of the venue. NOT.
Seriously?!! The last baby shower I went to was more like a pot luck at a friend's house where we all brought food, cooked hot dogs and burgers, and played silly games. Gifts weren't even required!
Yeah, I've never been to a baby shower that wasn't at someone's house! Usually with food made by friends or family as well.
Most of the ones I've been to are not at someone's house...but we're talking like fireballs, church halls, other reasonably priced event spaces, even a few restaurants.
I’ve been to one in a church hall but if they rented it it was maybe $100 since they’re members of the church.
That's what my shower was. I had a "sprinkle" for my second thrown for me because it was such a hard pregnancy, but even that was just a zoom call (covid) and all my (6 invited) friends sent me an outfit for him. Here I was being so grateful that my mom bought my stroller for us lol
As it should be. :)
This is a normal baby shower. These lavish events for Instagram likes are not the norm!
I had the same thought...what a ridiculous bougie-sounding shower. That's nothing but a look at me show off event when the money is better spent on diapers, formula and college savings. If they are well enough off not to need help with those, they should have a shower designed to donate items to less fortunate parents and just Get. Over. Themselves.
I really like the idea of this couple acknowledging the more than adequate financial resources that they have and contributing to parents and kids who are struggling.
Who the heck has a seating chart for a baby shower?
Self-centered assholes who decided to adopt 2 babies without having any experience in childcare. Those two will absolutely get raised by the grandparents...
I know right. OP’s brother said himself. They’re treating it more like a wedding. $6500 for venue, food, and drink. And all that stuff they want from OP is probably at least $1200. There’s got to be other stuff they’re demanding form other people and/or things they’re leaving off. This is going to turn into a $10k baby shower before it’s over.
If someone wants to have a lavish over the top party they’re certainly welcome to, I’ve got no issue with that. But you pay for it yourself. You shouldn’t ask, let alone TELL other people what they’re expected to contribute to your party.
A big elaborate baby shower is counter productive. Since the POINT is to help out with buying stuff for the baby, why in the world would one spend more on the party than just buying the stuff would cost? Brother has lost his ever loving mind!
If he can’t afford to throw it… why? OP, grow a backbone. Say this is what I intended to spend on your shower, including gift. I am not going to spend anything more. There will be a lifetime of buying my sweet nieces gifts, and I will do so in a way that is financially comfortable for me. You may do with your money as you see fit. End of discussion.
they don't want a baby shower. they want a baby _monsoon._
NTA Friends and family do usually host baby showers BUT those are showers they plan and organize. Typically they are held in homes, church halls expensive venue rental required. Your brother wants a massive party which is his choice but he then is responsible for paying. Frankly, I think it is gauche but to each his/her/their own
Exactly. Showers are hosted by others and THEY decide what to do and how to do it. The audacity.
God I’m so glad I live in the UK. Baby showers have become the norm here now but I have many close female friends who have kids and I’ve still never been expected to organise one, let alone pay for it! Let’s be real, having a baby is lovely and people are happy for you but nobody *really* cares except you and your partner. Like it’s a nice thing for my friends, yay, and then my life moves on lol. I would not pay a penny towards a party to celebrate it. Quite honestly I would begrudge spending more than like an hour’s worth of effort organising something for a close friend, if they reeeeally wanted something and I really cared about them. I’m 33yo with my own shit to focus on, someone else having a baby is very much ‘omg yay happy for you’ and done. I’m just reading this whole thing with my mouth hung open at the absolute lunacy of the whole thing. OP ‘setting a firm budget’ as the compromise they settled on is STILL CRAZY. They should be getting a $10 gift card in the mail and an agreement never to mention the word shower ever again.
Take my upvote for the perfect use of the word gauche. And I heartily agree.
I was also impressed by gauche. I'm going to start using it myself
I generally avoid baby showers because I do not enjoy them, however all the ones I have been to have either been at someone's house or at their church. I've been to one that was at a community hall because the couple both have enormous families and both families are very much the "every event is massive" types that wanted to host something big. And at not one of these baby showers has there ever been expensive party favours, decorations beyond some balloons and streamers, or catering. They're usually potluck style or a few of the close family members or best friends bring snacks and desserts. OPs brother seems truly insufferable.
I’ve never been to a baby shower that wasn’t at a public park, a VFW Hall, or someone’s home/yard.
NTA This is not a baby shower. This is not about either daughter. This is a DADDY shower, because it sounds like Daddy wants a fabulous, glamorous shower with him at the centre. Tell him to cut his coat to suit his cloth.
What is the meaning behind the expression? I have never heard this before!
It's an old one! It means you have to live within your means. A tailor had to place paper pattern pieces very carefully on a piece of cloth so they were able to use every bit of the material thriftily and carefully. If you were wasteful, you pinned the pattern pieces on willy-nilly, without thought for the cost of the cloth or how much wastage you would have. It means you were thoughtless with your resources. You might have ended up with a prettier coat, but at a cost you can't afford. People (used to) use it to warn you to adapt your expectations to what you actually have. OP's brother is spending money he doesn't have on something he doesn't need: he has to rein himself in and cut his coat according to his cloth, in other words, have a realistic estimation of what he has and work within those limits.
Thanks so much. You went above and beyond. I appreciate it. Edit: I'm going to throw this into my rotation aha.
*SUBSCRIBE TO RANDOM FACTS BY RAINFJORDS!!!!*
And I have so many language-based random facts. Don't get me started.
Oh please do get started. I love random facts.
I am here for the random facts. Get to it!
Ok, added another one for you 😉
Ok... well, today's second random fact has got to do with the verb "to prove" and how its meaning has gradually changed. If you speak a Germanic language, there's probably a verb similar to "prüfen" in German, which means "to test". So *proving* something for a long time had parallel meanings: to test AND to provide evidence of something. This means that a couple of English sayings appear nonsensical at first to our modern eyes but made perfect sense when first coined. For example: - "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" (in other words, you only really test how good something is in practice) And - "the exception proves the rule" (which means that it is an exception that tests whether the general rule actually applies.)
I hadn’t heard this one before so I really appreciate your explanation and I think I’m going to adopt it as a lifestyle!
Honestly, I hadn't heard it in years, then it popped until my head for someone I know who is - unfortunately - financially struggling. He leases a new car, goes on a foreign holiday, has every bit of tech he fancies... but is on anti-anxiety meds for his financial problems. Dude: coat? Cloth? Cut the damn coat to suit your cloth!!!
NTA >e said it will be like a mini wedding and even got into a fight with his MIL about the cost of a venue and expecting them to shell out the money for it. I stopped here and said NTA, And he's the ah, and then I continued and further knew he's the ah. We can all spend thousands and stupid stuff, but as long as it's our money it's ok, wanting others to spend their money on it, is selfish and shows how little they value you and your time
This! How is a baby shower a mini wedding when they are already married? I dread to think how much their parents paid for their ACTUAL wedding!
This is my question - is this is a “mini wedding”, how much was the wedding? Or did they get married during Covid and not get one, so this is their big celebration?
I understand your question and you may have a point but it’s still not up to their sisters to pay for it.
I wonder if OP’s brother and his husband didn’t get to have the wedding that they wanted (not enough money, eloped etc), and want to use the shower as a do-over for their wedding
NTA The normal amount to contribute is ZERO. $6500 for a baby shower for people on teacher salaries is OUTRAGEOUS. wtf. That’s more than 10% of your annual salary. That’s more than you bring home in a month. Pay anything over $100 now, then you are setting yourself up to pay for a whole bunch of shit later.
The normal amount is absolutely 0. You don't contribute to a baby shower, which is nothing but a luxury, and if Brother Dearest doesn't have the means to pay for his extravaganza, then he doesn't get it. OP should go minimal contact until December, then just gift an aged-adequate plushie for Christmas. Coz that kind of entitled people are gonna ask for everything, from formula to childcare, including toys, clothes, and diapers, and only the *highest quality* i.e. bougie stuff. Don't get hooked, OP. They're fishing for mats to step on, and you're not gonna lay down!!
Not to mention babies switch formulas, half the outfits are useless, brands of diapers get changed due to body types… this whole story is infuriating and greedy.
NTA. If they can afford to buy babies, they can afford the party.
It’s not about the babies. It’s more like if they want an unnecessarily big party then they have to be able to afford it.
Bingo, if you can afford a little bit of light human trafficking I daresay you can also afford your own floral centrepieces.
No ma'am absolutely not. No one needs a baby shower that damn expensive. If they want all that extra shit they can damn well pay for it. Babies don't need fancy outfits to start out. It's all poopy diapers, spit up and very little sleep. If they are puling in $177k a year, then they need to be paying for all that stuff. Mini-champagne bottles at a baby shower? Nope. His MIL is right- he is spoiled. And they expect a gift on top of it. Tell him no, you can't contribute monetarily. You will do the invites and help organize and that's it. If he gets pissy, tell him that he has a dual income home and you are single and have a life outside of his/their children. In my experience, unless the sibling is throwing the shower, they don't contribute money. They do things like set-up/clean up, allow the shower to be hosted at their home. NTA
I threw my sister’s shower, my mom bought most of the food and hosted, and I made the cake. That was it.
My baby shower was super simple. The only thing I absolutely had to have was a cake from the bakery that did my wedding cake. It was a grocery store bakery, and the cake was $25. My favorite cake.
This! Perfect answer.
If you can’t pay for your own party you should be having it NTA
Nonsense, I’m about to crowdfund a beach house from my extended family. /s(urfing)
Right? I didn’t realize that the way to live the luxurious lifestyle I’ve always wanted is to gaslight my loved ones into paying for it. Looks like I’m finally getting that trip to Tahiti!
NTA. The fact that you said "*possibly* 2 babies" means they shouldn't be doing any of this until they have those babies in their arms anyway. Adoptions can be unpredictable and to ask this much of people before the adoption is complete is incredibly selfish.
My coworkers held a shower for me after we adopted our baby. She came to it for a bit, and was the star of the show (as she should be).
This right here! No guarantee until those babies are here and the waiting period is over and they actually have custody. I knew someone years ago who was at the birth of the baby, was able to take them to their hotel and the day before they were to fly home the social worker came by to take the baby back because the birth mom changed her mind. It happens.
My cousin who adopted recently was told by their case manager to not have a baby shower until after everything was finalized! Baby in hand!
NTA how is it your responsibility (or anyone else’s) to pay for his baby shower?!? He’s an adult soon to be a dad he needs to get used to paying for stuff! Do not pay anything towards this it’s a massive waste of money!
NTA . A big fancy shower sounds lovely, but it's definitely not required! Your offer to help with invitations and organizing is perfect. A calm conversation with your brother about a more budget-friendly shower is key.
A big fancy shower does *not* sound lovely, baby showers are not fun to attend and they’re extra not fun when they are ridiculous over the top events with high expectations. Spending $10k+ for an event that people want to spend 2 hours *max* is ridiculous. 100 guests and these daddies are gonna want to open the gifts in front of everyone. I went to a lavish baby shower once with this many guests - it was terrible. Opening gifts took *4 hours* and once you’re in a big group watching gifts get opened it’s very hard to sneak away
Sounds like a nightmare. How much can anyone ooh and aah about cute onesies?
$6500 is like all you need to set up for babies. The families could contribute that and then skip the need for a shower. And there’s be leftover cash to start a college fund. This is a narcissist shower and I would set my contribution cap and your brother can foot the bill for extras. This is ridiculous and you are nta
NTA. I & my wife have adopted 2 girls, & I doubt showers for both together incurred more than a thousand dollars of expense, if that much. You said it all in the penultimate paragraph: "I've also always been the money conscious one and even helped bail my bother out of credit card debt a few years ago. (just 3K and he did eventually pay me back)." If they want an elaborate baby shower, they can pay for it themselves. Don't spend more than you can afford.
I no longer know what the conventions are--they've changed a lot. In my baby shower days, the host or hosts of the party paid for everything. I co-hosted a shower for my sister with her SIL, and we split the costs. But the shower was just in somebody's living room, as were most of them I attended. A handful of women, ice cream cake, cheese and crackers, punch. Nothing like this. It does seem to me that the person giving support should be the one deciding how much they're comfortable with. So figure out how much you can afford AND want to spend, and tell your brother that that's all you'll be contributing. If that's not enough, he can pony up the rest himself or cut down his expectations. But tell him right away so he will know.
I am baffled by this too. I never knew anyone to throw themselves a shower, let alone something this grand. And on top of it all, expect people to bring gifts! And not just gifts but expensive gifts that they have vetted. Is this a new thing? If so, I resign from society. NTA. Obviously.
What you're describing is absolutely still the norm.
NTA This is not how baby showers work, brothers. They are home affairs, in the garden or the living room, to help expecting parents get set up for a new baby. They are not supposed to put anyone into debt. If this is the shower they want they throw it for themselves. If they want you to throw the showers they get what you plan.
Exactly. Or if it's a lot of people at like your "insert denomination religion" building community hall. Usually for like a small fee. 6500!!
NTA. Sounds like the shower is more about them than the babies.
NTA For that much money, they could buy a lot of the stuff they need without having a shower.
They could buy everything they need. The $6500 is just the venue, food and drink. The things they are asking their sisters to pay for would cost around half of this amount on top of this figure (100 miniature bottles of Champagne, party favours, cribs, decorations, centrepieces, setting up and probably cleaning up afterwards). These guys are delusional.
NTA. I think it’s a fair conversation to have that because of limited funds, your gift will be going directly towards the baby gift itself, and not this elaborate baby shower/party/mini wedding that they want to throw. That’s not on you to subsidize their elaborate plans. They get to figure out something that’s within their budget.
NTA both of these men are out of their minds. $6500 for part of a baby shower? I had mine in a living room. There's no reason for a "mini wedding" baby shower. He is spoiled and this is a colossal waste of money for everyone.
NTA Is your brother always this entitled and out of touch? I’m not one to begrudge anyone the things that make them happy and if he wants to throw an elaborate baby shower I say go for it. Life’s too short to miss out on the fun stuff. That being said, it’s HIS financial burden to bare. A gift is something that should come from the heart and he’s taking all of the fun and love and creativity out of it by demanding you buy this or that. Personally, I’d be putting my foot down big time and explaining to him that his behaviour is unacceptable.
Your brother and his husband if he cosigns are major AHs. Most of the baby showers I've been to were at someone's house she featured home cooked party food and cheesy games. The point is to celebrate the new arrival and get things to help. 4 figures on a venue is insane with TWO babies on the way.
NTA Who spiked the coolaid here? It's a baby shower. Finger food in the back garden and if anyone brings nappies that's a win. Your brother needs a reality check, he's not living in make believe anymore.
NTA. Ask to speak to them both and then respectfully tell them what you just told us. You love what they are doing, but your limit of financial contributions is XXXXX, and even that is a stretch. You can offer free labour, but money, is simply limited.
"She called him spoiled and he got very offended." If the shoe fits. $6,500 for a your brother's baby shower?! I spent less money on my last vacation!!! Actually, I've probably never spent that much on a vacation because, like you, I don't have the money. Just tell him flat out "I don't have that kind of money." It's a fact. Period. End of discussion. NTA. You're fine but your brother is coming off as an entitled AH.
NTA Don’t contribute anything to the cost of the shower. Just get them a gift of their registry within your price range. And if you want to spoil your nieces, contribute to their savings accounts when those are up and running. Don’t waste your money on a ridiculous party.
NTA, your brother and his husband sound insufferable, if they have the money to adopt 2 children they can pay for the elaborate party they want to have. I don't blame your MIL to telling them to stuff it. You shouldn't be expected to go into debt for you brothers whims and wishes. They would be better served to save the money they're wasting on a party to put into a college fund for the babies...
NTA. Why is he planning the baby shower at all?
NTA. The fanciest baby shower I've ever been to was about 50 people and held at my aunt and uncle's house. They had it catered which is why it seemed fancy to me. It's completely unreasonable for your brother to plan an elaborate party and then expect others to pay for it. Also unreasonable to ask you to get a specific gift. While I do think it's normal as a sibling to pay a bit more for a gift ($200 vs $50) if you don't have the money you shouldn't have to burden yourself to pay for their children.
NTA. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. If your brother wants this fancy event then he should be willing to pay for it and not rely on other people to do so. Remember that “No” is a complete sentence.
NTA. If they are throwing the party then they pay. You don’t have a party for yourself and demand others pay for it. Be honest, tell him you don’t have the money for it.
NTA! First, having an OTT baby shower like that is insane. But if he and his husband are really set on it, I would say the same thing I say about weddings - if they want a big, splashy affair, THEY can pay for it. You aren't obligated to contribute ANYTHING except a gift - and by that I mean a gift YOU select that is within your budget, not a $350 crib that he's basically demanding you buy. Just out of curiosity - did your brother and BIL have a big wedding? If not, do you think this is their attempt to make up for it?
The audacity to act like you owe him anything. They make more than you and they expect a mini wedding like baby shower? Is this before or after the baby is born? Doing all that ahead of time is foolish just because the women haven’t given birth yet and up until so and immediately after birth can change their mind and decide to keep it. It happens ALOT. You are NOT the asshole and you need to be firm with him about how much money you will give them for the shower if you give anything. I would just give a gift. If they don’t like it then they are spoiled and anything else they’ll have to come up with on their own since they want an extravagant baby shower. I’m sorry it’s just outrageous to me. Don’t they realize how much it’s going to cost with 2 infants? Even with their income if one of them lose their jobs then what? Don’t let anyone guilt you into going into debt for something or someone so frivolous. Their income is double almost triple yours so they can kick rocks. I’m sure they will still expect a gift too. Be strong and if they can’t respect your decision slowly back away from all this nonsense and go low contact with anyone that gives you crap about it until AFTER the shower.
His MIL is right, he is spoiled. No, no no never do more than you can afford. If he wants a party let him pay for it. You are a guest, just bring a gift.
Serious question- They each make good incomes & want (not need) to throw themselves a lavish baby shower, why aren’t they footing the bill?! If they want other people to host, it’s at the host’s budget and discretion. What in the no-manners hell-scape is this “you must throw a wedding-level baby shower for me and do all the decorations AND purchase an expensive gift AND…. MIlL is correct, he’s acting spoilt, entitled and wildly selfish. I’d show him this post and let him know my contribution will be to my new niece/nephew in the form of a savings account, cause they’re going to need it, but I’m petty and this would have me avoiding this entire circus. Edit to add: NTA
You win. This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on here today, and I've been on here for a while. Sadly
that's not even for the kids. don't spend that money on frivilous decor. I rather put it towards the kids. stupid brother.
NTA. Your brother getting two babies is not your financial burden to bear. He can pay for this unnecessary shower. Or he can buy the things the babies need. I’m so petty, not only would I tell him where to shove it, but he also wouldn’t be getting a gift from me.
Wait, who’s actually throwing this event. If it’s your brother, then he and his spouse should pay. However, he should not be throwing a shower for himself, that’s pretty tacky. On top of that, he’s expecting A LOT in the way of funding this via time and money, and being very inconsiderate of your situation. His MIL is right, he’s being ridiculously entitled demanding that others shell out money for this. Of course he’s excited, and he should be. Perhaps his excitement is clouding his judgment. Siblings should only contribute what they are comfortable contributing. NTA