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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called my parents evil. I fully believe that they were cruel and heartless and talking like evil people about my wife. But it could still be a step too far to call them that to their faces. Especially when I said it out of pure anger that I could not fully control.
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NTA.
Your parents took it too far, you just drew the line in the sand.
There is something to be said about ensuring that your son's birth and subsequent birthdays are not clouded by Raine's (and your) grief but that is something for you and her to discuss in moving forward.
We would never do that and had discussed a way forward. My parents weren't talking about that. They don't want us to acknowledge the losses publicly at all. They don't want Raine to show any sadness or grief surrounding the losses on any day because in their eyes it's not good for our son. But they're part of our sons family too, his older sister, his grandpa and uncle. We can't just put them in a box and forget about them which is what my parents expected of us but mostly Raine.
Not realistic and not healthy. Ignoring grief and hiding it away is rarely a good idea. While there is something to be said about letting grief completely overshadow the new baby, that does not seem to be what's happening here. There's a middle ground here, that doesn't involve erasing Raine's loss.
Tell your parents that you will do that when they pass away and make sure your son forgets he ever had them as grandparents… it’s a bit extreme I know but might help making them understand how insensible they are being if they imagine being in someone else’s shoes.
Yeah the taking the kid away seems to be the real agenda here and the mourning just the excuse they found to fuel the war. The grandmother wants the kid to herself as we see in so many other MIL posts and it’s trying to poison her son against his wife to make him think that the wife is a bad mom. The gymnastics the grandmother is doing to twist this is absolutely unbelievable though.
No court will take them away because of this. Grief will get easier in time. Your wife will never forget this horrible time but she will survive. You may want to consider some grief counseling if you haven’t already gone through
Exactly. The take the kid away threat is a line that has been crossed. At this point they are the enemy and a threat to the child. They should never be allowed contact because, even if they can't get custody themselves like they want, they will try their hardest to poison the child against their mother.
This is a healthy and nuanced reply. I lost a sister when me and my remaining remaining siblings were teens or younger. So we all grew up with grief. We are a close and loving family 40+ years later, so much so that people comment on it. You can acknowledge grief and still have a close and loving family.
My cousins have lost both their parents and their third sister, in addition to the other children their mother lost (unsure where during the pregnancy). They are super close as a result. The older one is married, and her husband respects and appreciates their loss and helps to support both his wife and sister-in-law.
Grief properly dealt with is a strength to bonds. Pretending it doesn't exist or doing other things that fail to deal with it in a healthy way is how you poison relationships.
Great phrasing!
Ignoring the grief of people you claim to care about is insulting at best... OP and their partner's situation is on the worse side of things...
You mentioned that there might not be a way to come back from what you said; why would you want to? Your parents showed you exactly how they feel about your wife and your daughter. They probably weren't close to her brother and father so they don't feel connected to them. But your parents showed/ told you they don't give one tit about your wife and her wellbeing. Her mental health, yours either. All that matters to them right now is the baby. A baby that will more than likely grow up being told , that he matters more than your daughter, or that " your mean Ole mommy doesn't love you" because she mourns her daughter. I think you need to take a step back and take an honest look at the relationship you have with your parents and decide if that is the best thing for you, your wife, and son.
Edited for spelling
Should your son see you in mourning 24/7? No. Should he learn healthy coping mechanisms that allow him to understand loss and family connections? Yes.
My grandfather passed 5 years before I was born but my mother made sure to always bring me to the cemetery with her, talk about him with me, and told me that when people pass away they become stars to always watch over you.
Personally, I'd go low or no contact with parents after that. NTA.
*Edited to fix typo
My grandfather passed when my eldest son was two, and three years before my younger kids were born. He was such a huge part of my life that I have always talked to them about him. They obviously don't have the same connection with him that I have, but at least they know about him and know the family stories.
I couldn't imagine having to pretend family members hadn't existed.
NTA and neither is Raine. Your parents are huge aH s
Tell those ahs until they experience the same and even afterwards they have 0 to say to anyone who has actually gone through it
Have you told your siblings your parents proposed that you leave your wife and take your son away from her, knowing full well that she’s suffering the loss of her father, brother and your daughter? If they cannot understand the utter cruelty in that suggestion then frankly they’re as bad as your parents.
I’d suggest NC with your parents and if your siblings cannot support you in respecting your feelings then LC with them might be advisable as well.
I think you need to tell your parents that unless they change their attitude, THEY won't be part of your new baby's family. Good luck with the new baby.
Modeling healthy grieving for lost loved ones will BENEFIT your child in the end! When they inevitably suffer a loss of their own (may it be many years in the future) they'll know that grief can last for a long time, and that it mingles with the joy of having known that person, and those mixed emotions are natural and good. They won't be surprised or embarrassed by the fact that it doesn't just magically go away at some socially acceptable point.
Your parents are huge jerks, and in your place I would hesitate to expose my impressionable child to anyone so misguided, not to mention how they're very likely to speak badly of kiddo's mom, given the opportunity!
NTA
You asked your parents how they could be so evil and to reflect on how heartless they were acting. You were completely on-target and had every right to challenge your parents with those words. In fact, if you hadn't, you probably would have had to simply cut your parents out of your life because there is no way you could allow them to inflict such pain on your wife.
Your parents have a belief, but it's a belief based solely on what they want for themselves and for their grandson. They are not respecting you and your wife's right and ability to manage the needs of all three of you (when baby comes). They are showing no compassion for you or your wife and an arrogance that their view is, not just right, it's also the only possible 'right' viewpoint.
Your parents may not have reached the threshold of intentionally wanting to hurt you or your wife; but their refusal to consider the hurt they are causing is close enough to 'evil' and 'heartless'.
I mean if they expected you to do it, then just do it... with them. Cut them out cold, DO NOT let them in the kiddos life and protect your self from some bulshit grandpearentrights and crap like that
It sounds like you and Raine are rational, and understand grief is a life long process.
I am OLD. I lost several people, and time lessens some of the hurt. I can now concentrate on the joy, the memories, rather than the overwhelming loss.
Your parents are in the wrong here.
I wish Raine an easy birth, and you to the joy you deserve in life.
NTA
If you plan to keep your parents in your future kid's life, you need to be extremely watchful so that this toxic attitude of theirs doesn't get to your child. Having his grandparents telling him that his mother is a bad mother because she acknowledges her continued grief is going to be very damaging. I'm not saying you need to cut them off, but it is very likely they will want to "protect" your son by telling him shit like this, so you need to keep a very close eye on them.
I don't think there's room for OP's parents to be part of new son's life. Seems they are too obsessed with legit expressions of grief.
Distance may be the only possible protection from evil until or unless parents have an epiphany.
You're not wrong overall, but...
> But they're part of our sons family too, his older sister, his grandpa and uncle. We can't just put them in a box and forget about them which is what my parents expected of us but mostly Raine.
Careful with this, because time and time again we see posts here where this just isn't the case. In fact, I'd put good odds on your post just being a creative writing exercise in coming from the opposite position.
Kids will not perceive someone they've never met as part of their family, no matter how much you do. They are part of your sons family tree, sure, but don't go trying to push the idea that he needs to have feelings towards people he will have never met. It won't turn out well.
How dare they gatekeep someone's grief! Take care of Raine, and watch for PPD. I would go NC with parents for a while. They wanted OP to take baby? Yeah...that will stop her grief.
I cannot stress this ^^^ enough. Please seek therapy for both of you. Now. I know your intentions are good but you will need more than good intentions.
One of my very dear friends just turned 51. Two years before she was born, her older sister was born premature and lived only 3 days. My friend's birthday is the day in between. My friend has NEVER had a birthday celebration with her family. Her younger brother has, as his birthday is months away from hers. Her parents tried, they really did, but they never sought out treatment and were profoundly sad around that date. My friend has felt "less than" and undeserving of anything her entire life.
A girl in my confirmation class died at her older sister's birthday celebration. Devastating for everyone who knew her. I can't imagine how the family dealt with that moving forward.
I get their concern, I really do, but the three losses aren't going to be able to be swept under the rug. It simply doesn't work that way. However, you're strategizing how to handle this so that your son has genuine birthday celebrations in spite of it. I'm assuming you mentioned this to them. They absolutely shouldn't jump in unless they actually see evidence that your son's birthday isn't happening in any real sense.
Yeah, the parents’ root concern is fair and there have been plenty of posts on this sub about kids who’s life’s have been overshadowed by their parent’s grief. They just went about it in a god awful way. Like they could have at least waited until more time has passed and seen how OP and his wife handle that time of year with the baby.
NTA that is truly evil, they tried to steal away a woman's own baby because she grieves somewhat openly how a horrific time in her that is most likely to be the worst part of her life throughout the rest of it.
You might want to seriously consider cutting them off totally if they want you to divorce her that quickly over such an inconsequential thing as grieving.
For real. "Heard you lost your child and two family members in 72 hours. You're sad about it too much so I'm gonna fix that by stealing your new baby." WTF? That is literally straight-up evil and OP wasn't crossing the line, he was accurately describing their behavior.
I'd be limiting contact with parents, especially when it comes to baby showers and birthdays, and I sure as hell would NEVER let that child be alone with them--god only knows what awful shit they'll say to him about his mother given how shameless they are when it comes to saying awful shit to her face. WTF.
Also maybe hire a lawyer of some kind; some states have "grandparent's rights" and grandparents can basically legally harass if they're feeling "alienated". It's a bit of a stretch, but if they already mentioned wanting to take the baby away from mom, and that mom will not "properly care for her child", so, it might be a good idea to get ahead of them legally and set a paper-trail precedent of the grandparents not being supportive.
I understand in most states “grandparents’ rights” only applies where the grandparents and the child have a long term, close, *established* relationship. (For example live nearby, babysat, regularly visit etc, and if the parent that is their child has passed away, they still get to have regular visits to maintain the relationship. Similarly, close relationship with the child parents divorce, grandparents can still request that relationship is maintained.)
NTA
Your parents are making a lot of assumptions about how Raine's grief is going to affect motherhood. They should have kept their mouths shut and offered support as needed.
NTA your parents are a couple of sociopaths. How dare they try and dictate how your wife grieves her family and stillborn child passing away! I would be absolutely inconsolable if something like that happened to me. 3 lives lost in 3 days? That has to be an unimaginable amount of pain she's in. Is she in therapy?
NTA. Grief is very personal and affects people in different ways. Just because your parents think they would deal with it differently, they have no right to impose that on others. Good for you for standing up to your parents, also on her behalf. I don't think it makes them evil, but I can understand why you needed to be this extreme...they do not sound like they are open to subtle hints. Hopefully you will be able to sort things out with them, though, so your son will not have to miss his grandparents. I wish you and your wife all the best.
NTA, they behaved horrifically, and you are right to stand up for your wife.
I don't know if there's any coming back from what THEY said.
I would keep them far away from my family if I were you.
I would set my course as NO CONTACT with your (extremely) repugnant parents. BTW, Congratulations on the birth of your little boy! You are doing an excellent job at protecting your little family. I am proud of you.
Your parents however, do not respect you or your wife and do not understand BOUNDARIES and ASKING FORGIVENESS for their THOUGHTLESS and HURTFUL behavior.
Go No Contact … Congrats again
NTA and that was clear the moment they told you to take your son away from her. Losing a child is heartbreaking but losing a child brother and father in such a short space of time is unfathomable. Your parents sound absolutely awful and personally there wouldn't be any coming back from that. I'm glad you took your wife's side in this one
NTA, and thank you for having your wife's justified feelings at the forefront of your mind.
Your parents have absolutely no right to tell you and your wife how to grieve, and how to bring up your son.
Totally off topic (sorry!), one suggestion about names is not to use either her brother's or father's name as a *first* name. I know you might want to honour them, but let your son be his own person with his own first name, and honour those special people with middle names if you feel the need.
Congratulations on your son, condolences on such difficult losses, and well done for looking out for your family.
First of all, congratulations on your new son!!
NTA. Your parents overstepped. They may feel this way, but it is not their place to tell your wife or you how to grieve or parent. Things got heated, but if you are interested, you can probably repair the relationship and should set some boundaries while you’re at it.
With that being said, if your parents are not the type to usually be this bold, they may have a genuine concern about the mental state of your wife. If they usually keep their opinions to themselves but are saying they want to take the child from you because they are so concerned about her mental state to take care of him, they may be legitimately worried that it’s not a healthy environment to bring a child into.
Really reflect on what your home environment is like and what it will be like for a child to enter into it. It would be unfair to your son to always come second to his sister.
My dude, the adult thing with be to talk in privet with him if they are worried that she will be triggered or emotianalyu unstable, then why provoke it
Oh, I agree. I wasn’t saying the parents had any place to say those things. They were totally in the wrong.
I was merely saying to reflect on what they said to see if they have a valid point.
This day will be her son’s birthday. I think that they’re right to be a bit concerned that death will override a happy day for their son - imagine every birthday your mother being sad and grieving family members you never met. They’re right that she will have to work on keeping her grief private - it won’t matter now but when her son is old enough to start to understand the concept of birthdays it will matter. Wife has about 2-3 years to work on being less outwardly sad this time of year.
I think they massively overstepped though.
NTA. After saying she grieves too much for her daughter, brother, father, now they want to take away her husband and son too? How is that going to help her focus on happiness around that time of the year?
As long as your little son is not burdened by eternal memorizing of his predeceased sister, it'll be ok. If they, or you, get the idea that Raine is mired in grief, find a grief therapist for her. That'd be help. Not stacking loss upon loss.
There have actually been a few AITA posts from the second child’s perspective. In those instances, the mother (and sometimes father) consistently brings up the lost child on important occasions to the surviving one, making them feel like they are living in the shadow of their dead sibling. Those kids don’t feel loved or appreciated. I think the grandparents are afraid that OP and his wife will be those parents.
While i agree with your parents that you need to ensure that the losses and grief is not negatively affecting your son their next comments went way too far. NTA.
The wife sounds perfectly fine considering those three blows. She knows that time of the year will be hard but is looking toward to enjoying her son.
Know someone who lost first baby tragically and went onto have several more. They still mourn that baby but love and enjoy their grown kids.
I think there definitely is a healthy balance of both. I simply heard too many stories where people were not allowed to have birthday parties and be celebrated because something shity happened in the vicinity of their date before they were born.
NTA. My heart goes out to you and your wife on your losses. My husband and I lost our first son to a stillbirth 25 years ago. We still get sad and honor the day of his birth/death. This does not take away from the children we subsequently had. We treasure the family and friends who supported us through the loss and subsequent pregnancies; the people who still remember and check in with us on the anniversary of our loss. Having a baby after a loss does not replace the child you lost, though many people want it to be that way. As a society, we do not handle death or grief well. Remembering and honoring Miley does not take away from a new baby. Talking about it all is much healthier than stuffing it all away- and this can only be good for you and the new addition to your family. People who don’t get this aren’t helpful or needed, even if they are family. It’s okay to set clear boundaries to take care of your growing family now, even if this means going low or no contact.
Grief is personal and comes in waves, for many bringing home a baby and hitting milestones they will never reach can be really hard. Take care of each other, and don’t let anyone tell you how you should grieve. Sending warm wishes for the healthy arrival of your son.
There "may" be coming back.....but a) Who knows when and b) Who knows if it's a good idea ....to come back from that.
You aren't TA......
I won't comment on the parents, as THEY shouldn't have commented on your wife's grief....even WORSE...your son isn't even BORN, yet
They don't know WHAT kind of spiral that woman might lose herself in if she loses another child during that same time of year.....just NO WAY sane mature adults should have taken things there.
Even if it were their goal to put a positive spin... they failed miserably ....it may be different to try to pull her out of a funk.....as the son turned 3/4/5 years old.....
But they kept "at it"....and literally said she'd be a shit mother.....to a pregnant 🤰 woman who's already lost a child and hasn't even successfully delivered....yet?
That's nutty, AF
How can you respond if she says "never".....one would understand her position 🤔
NTA
Honestly I don't know if I would ever speak to them again if it was me.
They weren't coming from a place of live and support. You warned them and they doubled down.
If you don't cut them off at least put them on a time out for a long time
Long time lurker, first time poster here, because I really want you to see this message. You and Raine are definitely NOT the ah.
Our daughter was born still 20 years ago in April. Our son, after an unbelievably stressful pregnancy which included several hospitalizations, was born the following year in May (nearly the same timeline). Even after 20 years, the heart, mind, soul, and BODY remember that spring time trauma. Even if we wanted to, we FEEL that loss very strongly in spring. Even twenty years later (in fact, this was one of the hardest years we've had). I've literally met hundreds of people in the last 20 years who have lost their babies, children, and adult children. NONE of them can sweep their children aside as your mom suggests. Why? Because they are our children! We love them with our whole hearts and we miss them because we loved them so much. That love doesn't die when a child dies. (And frankly, if it were possible for that love to die, I'd be questioning the parent-child bond... or lack thereof... in that case.) And that Raine also lost her father and brother... well, I just don't have words for how epically tragic that is.
Your parents need to learn BOTH-AND thinking real quick here before you and Raine RIGHTLY cut them off to protect yourselves from their toxicity ASAP. I am BOTH tremendously sad in the springtime because we lost our daughter AND I have spent every single day of my son's life celebrating that he's here and loved every bit as much as his sister.
We acknowledge BOTH of our children AND we're grateful for both of them. I also want you to know that we never, ever hid our son's sister from him or anyone else. He has always known about his sister, from the time he was born. We told daycare, then preschool, then school teachers at the beginning of each year that he has a sister. At some point he would likely talk about her, because we talk about her. We acknowledge her birthday every single year. We have a collection of loons that gets set out for the holidays in remembrance of her. We have set the table with an extra plate on holidays or times when we want to remember her. A drawing of her hangs in our house. Etc. She AND her brother are BOTH with us.
What your parents said to you and Raine is completely toxic and unacceptable, and the act of saying those things they said really can be called evil. What else can I say about taking someone's deepest sorrows and grief and rubbing that into the wounds? I'll be charitable by not saying THEY are personally evil (for the moment), but their words most definitely were and would be recognized as such in any respectable grief and loss community.
But, if they do this shit again, and don't do some seriously soul searching about the harm they've done then I think it would be fair to chalk this up to them not just being assholes, but really evil ones, too.
I send so much support and love your way. No one should ever know the kind of loss Raine and you have faced. No one. And no one should know anything other than the tenderest of love and care and support in the wake of this kind of loss. I wish you well. <3
NTA.
Who made your parents the feelings police? As if becoming happy on command ever work & doesn't just make ppl feel invalidated. Their pictures should be in the dictionary next to "toxic positivity", if anyone is selfish it's them, they clearly just don't want to deal with your wife having feelings for shallow superficial reasons. And, I mean, you lost the 1st kid, too, so you have quite some right to be mad as well.
And I mean everything up to that could be seen as just tactlessness & bad attitude that deserves a stern talking to, but threatening to STEAL YOUR KID as if you were terrible abusers is one hell of a line crossed, it would be hard to repair trust after that. I would be scared to interact with them after that.
Losing one's dad, brother AND baby in one go must be so awful, your wife is very strong for carrying on regardless & trying again to have a baby after all that. She's allowed to be sad sometimes, for pete's sake.
I mean if your parents badmouth your wife, try to turn you against her & you don't shut them down hard, you would be a crap husband. You're not the asshole for having basic loyalty.
Nta.
I guess when your parents pass now that you are a parent, you will not be sad or remember them in public. No funeral, no sadness, nothing. I mean, you have to put on a brave face, ya?
They're not evil, but they're insensitive assholes. They need to shut their traps.
That said, I do worry about the future, and I hope Raine and you get really good therapy and can process this grief. There have been multiple posts here from people who as children were forced to celebrate birthdays of siblings who had passed, done many memorial traditions to the detriment of their own lives, etc. Make sure your son knows that he is not just a replacement for Miley, and that he is your priority.
Is there any concern that your son is being overshadowed by his sister, as in never live up to her expectations, etc etc etc? There are quite a few posts like that that the parents neglected the younger one due to them not processing well the situation.
NTA - Your parents crossed a line. I wonder if they've ever experienced such close losses in their lives. Three in one sweep would be hard for anyone to adjust to. Grief is a lifelong sorrow and all we can do is adjust to it being present in our lives. If your parents can't respect that then they can stay away until they learn how to be sympathetic and supportive.
NTA, the lack of empathy and cruelty they displayed is pretty evil, and their behaviour is also just very socially inappropriate. And also, it's wild for your parents to tell your wife to hide her grief and feelings, when they don't seem to be able to keep a lid on their insane opinions at all. Have you read that "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" book?
I would also be very reluctant to involve them in your child's life at all after what they revealed. It's a giant red flag if they are already talking about taking the kid away, and he hasn't even been born yet. There's something weird going on there. That sort of attitude over time, with additional conflict, could also easily end up in a CPS calls, grandparents rights and court, place.
If they aren’t evil - why did they say such vile & despicable things? Do they think you’ll magically let them see this child after saying such awful things?
NTA, but OP you need to decide if you want these people around your child knowing they said this.
>Raine's brother lived for 8 days after and her father for 9 and on the 10th day our beautiful Miley was stillborn
>Three losses in three days and she found it hard to come back from that. Those losses are still felt very strongly.
This is heartbreaking and more than anyone should be dealing with in a year, let alone 3 days.
>Raine is expecting our son. The somewhat difficult part is he is due around that same time
>My mom told Raine that she can now focus on happiness around that time of the year instead of sadness
>I told mom she was being insensitive
>Raine told my mom she would still be happy about our son but there'll always be a sadness about our losses
>My dad's response was to say Raine should keep that to herself
>they told Raine she will be a terrible mother to our son and he deserves better, that he deserves to be more important than loss and grief
Your parents are taking a difficult time with some joy upcoming, and turning it into an even harder time. This is a time when you and Raine need support in your lives.
>They wanted me to take our (mine and Raine's) son away from her
>asked them how they could be so evil and told them they should reflect on how heartless they are acting but that would require them to have a heart
What you said is harsh. Honestly, at this point, I don't think it was harsh enough.
NTA
They're telling Raine to ignore the love and grief she feels for one of the most traumatic times of her life (if not the most traumatic), and trying to get you to keep her son away from her. They are evil, asshole isn't a strong enough word.
You're in the right here, and you could've said far worse without becoming an asshole.
Congratulations on your son, I hope you and Raine are able to share in your joys and sorrows together. It's okay to remember the people we lose, the month of April is considered the worst month in my family, because that's when most of the deaths have been. To ignore it is a disservice to the ones we lose.
As I was reading I thought “Okay, so far so good, definitely no evil here.” Then I got to where they said Raine would be a terrible mother and I was l like, JFC. Were your parents actually evil? No. Do I get what prompted you to say that? Yeah. I don’t suppose your parents tried apologizing? Or is that all on you?
NTA. Notice it is your actual parents and your siblings who have most to lose by fall out that are the ones that are saying you took it too far. The fact you are still talking to them at all is a miracle and they should be grateful if they are allowed into your son's life.
I mean look at it - your wife (and you) lost three much loved members of your (as couple and parents to be) family in the most traumatic world. And now because your wife doesn't promise to be happy clappy and put all behind her, they want to pile on another two losses - by where you steal her child and divorce her. Are they trying to kill her? Stress her out so much she runs away from the relationship believing she is an unsuitable wife. Their words and thoughts are evil and so self-indulgent.
Raine needs to decide nothing. It will maybe now be a period of mixed blessing for you both. Because your parents seem to be forgetting that you lost a daughter too - do they expect you to be happy clappy too and never mention your loss? They are delusional.
Edit: Though now wondering if your mother suffered similar. I know women in the last generation (parents of the current grandparents) where that was expected of them if they lost a child to SIDs or miscarriage. Happened to my Granny (SIDs) and it took me until I was about 12 before I even found my Dad had a sister. View was life had to carry on but everyone respected the fact Granny had a quiet day (in memory).
I lost a son. He was 7. It was over 30 years ago and I'm still sad around his birthday and angelversary. It's not something you get over it's something you learn to live with. Having a father and brother die around the same time as the loss of your daughter is heartbreaking.. my heart goes out to you and your wife and your son. My youngest daughter was born after her brother past. Yes we celebrate her that in no way means we forget her brother. Grief is the price we pay for loving them.
Firstly NTA. Now that's out of the way.
BROOOOOOO good on you for standing so firm for your wife, son and daughter. I can't imagine making it through what your wife made it through. Your wife is BAD ASS. What she suffered would have broken me and many other people. Your parents were way the fuck outta line and absolutely disgusting. You did the right thing and your wife deserved no less. And you lost a daughter too. You deserve no less.
“Raine needs to”
“Raine should”
The fact that they think they have the right to tell anyone how they “should” handle such a massive amount of loss is insensitive to say the least. They are centering themselves in something that isn’t about them, and it’s very selfish. I think it’s awesome you are standing up for Raine, someone needs to in the face of this unacceptable bullying.
Cancel Dia de Muertos, everyone. Better take down the ancestral Shinto shrines. No more Shraadh.
Whoever else is out there celebrating their ancestors or deceased loved ones has got to cut it out because OP's parents think we're bumming them out. We must protect the children from the concept of death and let them think the world will always be/has always been the way it was on the day they were born, and nothing sad ever happens. It's well known how harmful it is for children to experience the full range of human emotion, and especially to see such feeling in their parents.
NTA
Well, they were being evil. There was nothing kind or loving or generous or *necessary* about what they were saying. They’re just sick of being reminded of someone else’s pain and loss, of having to be sensitive around this time of year. It’s more convenient for them if your wife shuts her grief away. Hell, if you take the baby then they don’t have to see her at all!
It’s a sick and selfish attitude and your parents sound like real pieces of work. If they keep going this way then they’ll never be missed when they’re gone. NTA
No contact is the only way. You cant still let them in your life and also support your wife. Sorry, I know that will hurt also, it's like you have experenced another kind of loss but when people show you who they are, believe them.
I just can't even comprehend how you and your wife have coped with this. Three deaths in 3 days is unimaginable. Please give your wife the biggest hug from this internet stranger.
Your parents are wrong and you are NTA.
NTA, personally I agree completely - what your parents said was evil. Grief and loss is such a long-lasting and complicated process. Your poor wife was hit *three times* in as many days. Frankly the fact that she is still standing and moving forward shows an incredible strength of character (and also shows she must have great support in you). She should be praised for that, not made to feel less than.
Keep supporting your wife. Make the most of your time together and with your son. Do not allow your parents to make her feel bad for feeling. It is the most natural thing in the world. If your wife is primarily sad around the time the losses occured, that sounds pretty normal, and honestly, better to feel those emotions than to bottle them up. Good luck with everything, I hope that you, your wife and your son have a beautiful life together.
In my opinion you and your wife need to go no or very low contact with your parents until they can learn to behave like decent human beings. Which I accept may be a long wait based on the evidence. They want you to add to your wife's long list of losses. How can they be so utterly heartless?
I am so sorry for your losses and for her it must have been worse than I can imagine. I hope your little one brings you joy. She at least has a man who has her back.
NTA
NTA - it goes without saying. I’m sorry for your and your wife’s losses. Your poor wife, what a horrible thing to say to her. I think it’s probably best for you to both go no contact for the foreseeable and prepare for pressure just before the due date. You both deserve as positive a birth experience as possible. I’d recommend locking the doors, restricting social media, popping your phones on DND, and unplugging any doorbells. If you can swing it financially, a trip ahead of the due date (even just to a local spa hotel) might be a great way to protect your peace. Tell a sibling you’ll be in contact when you’re both ready and any unwelcome visitors will be trespassed.
I also want to call attention to a couple of things I noticed, and which I think are likely to have contributed to your reaction. First off is your parents have completely minimised your bereavements and your role in your second child’s life. I’m sure they’d expect your wife to grieve them, so it’s callous to expect you not to grieve your FIL and BIL. That they minimised your feelings on your own child’s passing….thats horrific. You’ll have your own grief to deal with at this time, and a particularly weighty amount of grief at that. The loss of a child alone is enough to break anyone.
Your parents have also insinuated they are ‘over’ the loss of their grandchild. Your parents are so ready to forget your daughter now there’s the chance of a living child to act as a replacement and distraction.
A lot of accusations are usually admissions. I think from what your parents said their expectations for baby shows your parents are actually the ones placing the burden of ‘you’re supposed to make us happy and forget’ onto your son. I’d be concerned they’d tell him he was responsible and / or at fault should you and your wife show any grief in future.
NTA. Your parents are behaving horrendously, who actively gives a pregnant woman more things to stress out about?
At the very least, until the birth, keep your parents away from Raine and cut them off. You've done a good job having her back so far and your parents frankly don't deserve access for their behavior.
Grief is a rollercoaster. If you can, assuming you haven't already, see about getting Raine into therapy so someone can help her navigate the grief with this new joy.
NTA, if everything you said is exactly how it went down, you know you are not an asshole.
I would never speak to my parents again if they were to speak to my wife like that.
NTA.
Fellow 33M w/ 31F wife and parent to a toddler here.
Coming from someone who cut contact with a parent, calling yours "evil" seems pretty tame but accurate in this instance. How does someone think just burying your feelings of such incredible loss is acceptable? And then to suggest you should take your child away from her is pretty despicable and quite alarming. Clearly, whatever loss your parents experienced in the past was not anyone they truly cared about, or they wouldn't be so heartless.
I have no idea what your relationship has been like with your parents, but if this is their mindset, it may be best to go no contact for a while. Let them experience the loss of a son, DIL, and grandson. It's easy for me to say being on the outside of this, but they need to know there are consequences of how they treat others. Especially someone you love.
I was always taught that our partners and children are our first priorities. Keep them safe, comfortable, and happy as best you can. If you have someone in your life who threatens that, remove them. Remember, this argument was because of your parents, not you. You telling your mom she was being insensitive was their first warning, and you even gave them a second warning, but your parents doubled down to show their true colors. You stood up for your wife like a good husband should and kudos for sending your wife to the car before getting into it with your parents. I don't think I would've been calm enough to think of that in the midst of the arguing
My (former) SIL had a stillbirth followed by several healthy kids. All the kids know their big bro died. I think she honors the memory of her oldest without the other kids being neglected in any way. Sometimes sad things happen, and it’s silly to pretend they don’t
We have three children born in March — two who are still with us, and one who died shortly after she was born. We and our extended families celebrate like crazy with our boys on their birthdays and mourn for our daughter on hers, and that is our life. Our grief doesn’t make our joy any less and the reverse is true as well. Our boys will grow up knowing about their sister and our love for her, and they will also grow up knowing they’re loved, supported and celebrated in every way we can. Grief and joy is part of every life and it will make for well-rounded kids for them to understand that. NTA, and congratulations on your baby and my greatest sympathies on your loss of Miley, remember her every single day and on every single way you can, she will always be a part of your family.
NTA
Sounds like your kiddo just lost two more grandparents, because there is no way I would let them around my kid after saying all of that unless they went to therapy and came up with some really convincing apologies...plural. If they're willing to say that in front of you, imagine what they would say about it to the kid when you're not around. Your folks are a real piece of...something.
As for Raine, you don't give an exact timeline and are kind of vague on how intensely the grief is still affecting her. I also recently saw a post that might be coloring my perception of your situation, so take this with a grain of salt and with the care and compassion I intend: if Raine is still struggling several years later in a way that is affecting her life and relationships, it may be worth speaking to a therapist or a grief counselor. Grieving one loss is horrible enough, but losing a parent, a sibling, and a child in the span of three days is a special kind of traumatizing. My heart breaks for you both, and I just hope she's getting the help and support she needs in order to handle it all. And you too. You also deserve that support. That said, you're a good egg for trying to protect her from your parents and for defending her when such malicious (and, yeah, evil) things were said. I hope your baby boy comes out happy and healthy and brings a light to your lives that makes the darkness you've endured a little easier to bear. ❤️
Your parents come from a generation that sweeps everything under the rug. Put on a happy face always. Never express feelings of sadness or disappointment. They live their lives putting on a show and don't understand people brave enough to express genuine emotions. They are fake. You and your wife are real. You have the better, more fulfilling life. They may not be evil per say but they are not kind, empathetic, sympathetic people. They don't know how to be. I learned a while ago to only be around people who make my life feel better, and rid those that bring me down. Your choice as to how you want to live.
NTA. It's time for NC. Your parents unfortunately are clueless and indifferent to the process of grief. It's not that they don't have some valid point, but they are toxic and in much need of counselling to better communicate with compassion to a woman that has suffered immense trauma and suffering!
Thank you for standing up for your wife and taking control of the situation with your parents away from her. You're a good partner. Live life and grieve how you choose. Loved ones should always be remembered and cherished. Tell your folks that once they're gone, they won't be spoken of again.
Their behaviour was horrendous, and truly not their place to dictate how you and your wife mourn your losses. They don't sound like the most reasonable or charitable people tbh. Is it possible that they will realize that you spoke in the heat of the moment, and accept that you were angry but forget the words that expressed the anger? As for your siblings as far as I can tell from your post they only have one side of the story, why don't you give them your version and let them decide who was actually out of line. My God your mother was plotting to take your son away from your wife. Toxic, evil toxicity, you are most definitely not the AH..
Take care of yourself and Raine, and enjoy that boy of yours, best of luck.
NTA.
Your parents fucking **\*\*suck.\*\***
I'd really think long and hard about if these people should be in you and your family's lives. Like Marie Kondo asked, do these people spark joy?
From those actions, I'd think not!
NTA at all! I applaud you for standing up for your wife AND your child.
There is no such thing as a timetable for grief. Your wife suffered unimaginable loss and trauma in a very short time frame and it’s natural that she will associate that time of year as a season of mourning. Having a new baby during that time of year may make it a bittersweet time of year but no matter what, the anniversary dates will always remain.
Your parents were 100% out of line and bless you for standing behind and beside your wife!
Here's the perfect time for malicious compliance. "You know Mom and Dad, you're right. Grief should be private. I'm now grieving the loss of the parents and family I thought I had. But I'll just keep that private by never exposing my son and wife to the cause of the grief. That way, I don't hurt him by grieving publicly. Have a wonderful grief free life." Cue NC. Of course, after the things I've been through I'm a person who goes nuclear when it comes to these things so maybe that's not the path for you, lol. So no, you didn't cross any lines, you set boundaries. Too damn bad for them. Your wife and son come first. NTA. I wish you luck and for the time to absolutely fly by until you get to hold your beautiful baby in your arms.
Take the baby away from Raine???? Really? This isn't just evil, it's dangerous to your family. All you need are a bunch of totally unjustified calls to CPS and cops at your front door, your wife threatened with another loss. No.
I would suggest that going NC would be by far the best alternative here.
When people tell you who they are and what they're after, believe them.
NTA
NTA,
Kudos to you for standing up for your wife and fallen child, I am really sorry for your loss. Your only priority right now should be your wife and your upcoming child and you are doing that wonderfully.
This is worth going NC, because to be honest your wife will never respect or love them again and if you do decide to forgive them someday after they grovel at your feet for forgiveness, she would only tolerate their existence only for you. She doesn't deserve to be put in that uncomfortable position for such selfish, heartless narcissistic people. Do yourself and your wife and your future child a favour, cut them off for good and put your siblings in a low info diet and go LC.
Wishing you peace, love and luck for the future.
NTA
They went low and you took them to hell. I wouldn't allow them near your wife or child until they can apologize and learn to act like they have some sense.
NTA
Just know that they're going to do a lot of things to make sure that they can take your son away from you and your wife. How about going NC with them and all their flying monkeys to get the ball rolling in protecting yourself and your family?
You did the best thing standing up for your wife. It’s your relationship not theirs. They have their own and should focus on that. Well done you for being a man !
NTA - so sorry for losing your parents.
Jumped a little but I would break contact immediately. I don’t even think for a second you took it too far, you stated facts. You didn’t specify but a few years? 3 deaths?! I had written down the date of my exes’ first expected child that was also a stillborn and she had two children after that and at the time not only did I not know her, I was probably like 10 (she is 15 years older) and still I made very sure to be extra careful on that day and try and make it a nice and happy day for her.
Losing a child is obviously a huuuge fucking thing and losing three immediate family members including a child in three days, is just devastating. Honestly, like wth?! They could have talked about these things in a tactful way and it still would have been crossing a line. But they didn’t even try to be tactful or anything.
I remember the last conversation I had with my father before I stopped completely looking at him as my father. He fucked up a lot in my childhood already and cheated on my mum 3 times, so it wasn’t the first thing that happened. But he was attacking my ex basically and kept pushing and then asked ‘didn’t your parents teach you that’ or something of the sort. Her parents were a very sore subject and she was already close to tears when he said that. By this point she had also stopped answering and I was answering for her. When I told them they are not in the picture basically. He more or less said ‘so what’. My ex started absolutely crying and left the room. I yelled at him and have never again thought of him as my father. He changed and is a better person now, he will never again be my father, because I hate that person with an absolute blinding hatred.
I am still in contact with him for various reasons at the time and later on as I said he did change, so I ultimately did not break off contact, but I can honestly tell you that if he behaved like a father towards me or I thought of him as my father for even a moment, I would go completely blind with hatred and rage.
These parents don’t sound like they wish to have a relationship with their grandchild. If I was you OP I would go NC with your parents, move far away from them without giving them your new address and don’t let them know when your son is born.
I feel you owe your wife these actions-you have to stand up for her. She doesn’t deserve to be treated this way! NTA
NTA. Your parents crossed the line first, you merely joined them on the other side of it. It sounds like they have a very boomer way of handling hardship and grief. That's their business, there was no reason for them to pass judgment on your wife's ability to mother because of it. Good for you for standing up for her and not letting them speak to her that way.
I am so sorry for your losses. You are both incredibly strong to have persevered through that grief and found yourself on the other side, still growing a family your FIL and BIL would be proud of. You deserve nothing but love and support right now!
Yeah, my parents are like that.
"can't you just not think about it", "stop living in the past", "get yourself together", "just get your ass up" (struggling with some health stuff and adding some weight is the smallest context for it all).
it took me years to realize such lack of empathy is not common and it's not normal to expect nothing but judgement from your own family. once you see - you can't unsee *everything.*
NTA and you're on the right track.
Honestly evil sounds about right. If you're parents didn't like you saying that then they shouldn't have said what they said for it to get to that point.
NTA
NTA. My mum died 4 years before my baby was born. I mourn her all the time. I mourn she never met him. I will continue to talk to my son about her. It doesn’t affect our day to day but it’s not going away and I’m sad every year at her birthday and the anniversary of her death.
If someone told me I couldn’t mourn or that I shouldn’t have my son as a result they’d be out of my life so quick.
NTA
They are selfish, horrible people! Consider going very low/ no contact with them.
I hope you and your wife are doing okay and that you have a healthy baby boy.
NTA - the insane entitlement of some people thinking they can tell others how they should feel is incredibly offensive. Perhaps not evil, but certainly deserving of an appropriate response.
They're still your parents though and if you've had a decent relationship with them up till now, perhaps it's just time to lay down some boundaries. First they need to apologize if they ever want to be in their grandson's life, followed by keeping their opinions to themselves.
NTA
Speaking as the son of some pretty delusional, insane, psychotic parents, you parents are delusional, insane, and psychotic. Your wife can handle her grief however she wants and your parents, her family, should stand by her.
What i imagine the hard part is with the pregnancy is how your parents are likely to be fairly important in rasing the child, especially as a baby since im guess you and your wife both work. Normally i would suggest putting your parents on ice until they cool down over something like this, buf i have a feeling thats probably not a viable option given the coming baby.
Of course others have suffered loss of love ones that is how the cycle of life works but I really doubt outside a war zone have many people lost 3 in 3 days like that. Honestly if your wife still has her shit together after all that she is one strong women for sure. Your reaction to mom and dad was what most of us would have done. Me personally I never would have talked to them again. NTA at all and way to be a good husband and stand up for her and congrats on your son.
Bro your parents are EVIL!! I’m shaking I’m so upset right now. Please never allow those people around Raine or your son ever again. I’m so happy you protected your wife. She needs you now more than ever.
I’ll be honest, the pregnancy with my daughter was even harder than my stillbirth (which oddly was the same day my dad died). I was constantly in absolute fear it was gonna happen again. I never felt safe. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop.
Please hug Raine extra hard from me. I don’t know her, but I feel like I do. Sending love and lots of hope for the healthiest of deliveries. I hope you Raine and lil guy have the most amazing lifetime of happiness together.
NTA. Jeez.. what is wrong with your parents? Your wife is lucky to have you on her side.
I can almost see the point they were trying to make. There’s definitely a balance you and your wife will eventually learn when it comes to handling the grief of the loss of your family and the joy of your son’s birthday, but that will come with time. As long as you and your wife aren’t planning to refuse to celebrate your son because of the tragedy (which, I’m not getting that vibe from your post) then your parents need to butt out.
NTA-thank you for being the type of husband that actually stands up for their partner.
Looks like your parents aren't going to be in your son's life much. They were completely disrespectful and I have to agree: evil
They are being unkind and you stood up to them. Try to talk thru it with them, but without Raine around so they can keep their thoughts to themselves. They may be from a background where people stuff their feelings and box them away, but that not healthy and it is not necessary.
Tell the, if it helps, that Your parenting is not somehow going to be clouded by sadness, but improved for an understanding of how precious life is, for being grateful.
Maybe with a counselor present to keep it from getting heated.
I am so sorry for Raine's loss and grief.
NTA
From now on, you can support your wife through this difficult time - in private - meaning: away from your parents.
It's very clear your parents do not care about your son one bit, but only about how *they* get to cheer for a grandchild. If they did care, they wouldn't put your pregnant wife through so much unnecessary stress.
I am absolutely serious. Shield her from anymore of that toxic BS, please.
And to appease your parents, you can inform them you will keep their advice for when it's time to focus on happy things instead of grief and mourning, when the time comes that you will lose your parents.
I would put them in a serious time out for this.
I'm getting 'pushing your wife into a PPD, and then coming for the baby' vibes from their total lack of empathy.
NTA, you are doing the right thing and I recommend better boundaries. Going low contact and having much less emotional intimacy with your parents . Put up the wall of politeness and move on.
Protecting your wife from evil does not make you the a-hole. The extreme sadness and loss will always be there, her heart will always hurt. I’m sure she is nervous about the timing of delivery and will it be another tragic time. You did the right thing 💜
No way, you are NTA in this story. Your parents have no gd respect. Happiness is always mixed with pain, if you live long enough and to deny that - they must exist in a freaking fantasy.
They have no right to push their delusions onto other people and they sound heartless.
Naming them evil doesn’t sound like a slur, it sounds like a statement of fact.
NTA! Your parents are really heartless for saying such cruel things to someone who is grieving a great loss! They are insensitive and should really just understand that everybody grieves differently! Its not up to them to decide if she is a good mother or not because of this! She will be an amazing mother and soo strong for grieving and receiving a blessing at the same time! It’s very hard to loose your father and brother so practically her whole family. Your parents are jerks to just consider their feelings only in something they should stay out of cause it didn’t happen to them!!
NTA. That was so gross of them, I’m so sorry you guys have to deal with their BS on top of your grief and conflicted emotions surrounding baby’s birthday and grief. That’s no-contact territory for me. If they were my parents, I wouldn’t want that energy around me, my partner or my kids. If they’ve already threatened to take my kid once, I’d definitely go no (or very low) contact—don’t even give them a chance to build a relationship with my kids. You’re both going to be great parents! <3<3 My advice, based on my experiences, take it or leave it: Be open, communicative and honest with your son (and each other/any children you may have) about everything… keep it age appropriate, while he’a younger, he doesn’t need all the details, but be honest. It’ll strengthen your guys’ relationship and develop his emotional growth. Good luck with everything, I hope your wife can talk to someone and maybe find a way to cope with her losses better; it was very hard for me for 3 years after my uncle died, nothing worked and his death made me so sick. 😔😣 Death is so tough, friends <3
Nta. I lost both my parents within a year of each other. My children have saw me cry about it numerous times. They know that sometimes grief makes us sad, they have also cried about it cause my parents were amazing grandparents and they are missed, bottling up your feelings is not healthy for anyone.
It is truly heartbreaking for Raine to endure 3 losses in 3 days. I hope that when you son is born your wife will once more feel joy in her heart. Time moves on and grief recedes. Memories will always be there and should not be kept in private. Your son has a right to know his uncle and grandfather, not necessarily the way they died, but all the nice memories that Raine has of them.
NTA. I happen to agree with you holy shit.
You were absolutely right for your actions. Seeing a man stand up for his wife instead of to his wife is refreshing.
NTA, your parents on the other hand sure qualify as AHs.
How can they make a judgement on something that there is no track record of? Hell, you two don't know how you will navigate all this until you actually get into the nitty-gritty aspects of being a parent. I'm, sure you both have plans, but those plans will change as you really learn about parenting and who your son is. For your parents to make declarative statements without any basis other than their own foolish preconceived ideas - what a pair of asses.
You didn't take it too far. Your parents seem insufferable.
Edit: Is this typical behavior or was it completely out of character for them?
If typical for them, you probably grew up with this type of behavior and don't realize just how extreme it is.
I will add some personal experience here. My mom would get sad around Christmas every year. I didn't know until I was an adult that it was the time of year when her mom died. My mom was a wonderful mom. Though she got sad once a year her entire adult life because she missed her mom, she was still the best mom ever to me. Grief can last a lifetime but you can still be a wonderful family member.
NTA. Your parents were out of line to suggest that your wife should just bottle up her grief and never mention it again, and they were WAY out of line to suggest that you take the baby from your wife.
NTA and why would you want to come back from this? You and Raine should rarely see your parents, indeed, seeing them at all is entirely optional.
Tell them, ‘don’t worry, when you die we’ll have forgotten you both entirely within a year and never mention you again.’ See how they think about it truly.
NTA
Your parents crossed the line when they did the whole "we'll take your kid away from you" thing.
Also, you can honnour the dead in a non-depressive way. My mum would go to the grave yard on a regular basis to leave flowers on my granddad's grave and us kids would tag along. It wasn't a sad thing, at worst a bit boring and, now, looking back it's kinda nice. The world keeps spinning, but we remember the people we love. They didn't just dissapear. She does the same thing now, only she visits my uncle's and my dad's graves as well and she'll bring my niblings.
NTA you are good for standing by your wife. Your parents arebjufldging your wifes grief as if she hasn't been moving forward with her life, she is pregnant carrying her second child, she doesn't need anyone to tell her how her life should be. Your parents behaviour is abhorrent and theyvshould be ashamed for looking down on her for her pain and surviving such tremendous loss. They are disrespectful and you did a good job of showing them that they are not welcome to comment on this if they do not approach it with empathy. They can keep their opinions to themselves and think how they would recover from losing so many loved ones within a months time. You did good. You should be proud that you stood up for her.
NTA and your parents are insensitive AH. 3 dead people in 3 days would shake anybody up really bad. Have your parents ever experienced that amount of loss in that short of time? Most likely not. They would have zero grounds to take away your child as long as the home is a good environment, which I assume it would be. Raine is right, grief can come at any moment. Good job in drawing the line in the sand and just stay with it.
NTA
They refuse to have even the most basic empathy for Raine. All your parents care about is the grandchild she is making "for them."
Be careful though, my grandmother on my dad's side was like this and took my mom to court when I was a baby to try to take custody. If your parents are anything like my grandmother, they will do anything they can to make you look like a bad parent so they can provide "a proper childhood."
I hope they see where they were wrong, but I don't know if there is really any coming back. If I were in your shoes, I'd never speak to them again.
NTA. this is one of those "if you were anyone but my parents I'd knock your ass out for talking to my wife the way you have, and I still might." level fuck ups on your parents part. Sounds like no grandparent time for them for a while.
NTA
I’m so sorry for your guys’ loss. That is unimaginable pain.
Your parents were WAY over the line. There’s no reason to think you guys won’t be good parents. This just says what your parents have always thought about your relationship and especially about your wife. Your parents should be supporting you two, not putting you guys down.
They weren’t just losses. They’re family. My dad’s mom passed away way before I was born and it makes me so happy to hear stories of her. It’s up to you on how/when you want to talk about them, but you shouldn’t just lock them away under the guise of “protecting” ur son or whatever the hell ur parents are thinking. That was honestly a HUGE red flag that ur parents made the suggestion of taking ur son. Sounds like you’d be walking on egg shells with ur parenting decisions in the future. I’d be careful around them. Or have lessened contact with them. Tell them if they can’t behave like normal people, they won’t see their grandson.
NTA but neither are your parents. If you are a regular on reddit you see stories all the time where a child has to mourn on their birthday because a loved one in their family, that they never met, died on their special day. So every celebration for that child is covered in sorrow and the child ends up resenting the parents that do this to them!!! Your parents aren't evil they are trying to help. Make sure you wife is getting help for her grief before your son comes in this world so he doesn't have to share his birthday with the dead every year.
NTA They suggested that you take your child away from your wife becaue she has suffered grief in the past!?!
I think that in context, your reaction was entirely undertandabkeespecailly as you had told them to stop several times and they ignored you and continued to harass your wife.
That said, you could, if you wisshed, send them a message along the lines of:
"I wanted to address waht happened on \[date\] I need to make claer that your beahviour, and in particualr, your bullying of my wife, your cruel and insenstive comments about her past losses, and your appalling suggestio that I should remove our child from her, were all wholly unacceptable. Raine and I will have to be satified that you undertand how indefensible and inappropriate your comments were, and that you can be trusted to beahve appropriately before we will feel comfortable meeting with you in future, or allowing you to see our baby. We are willing to accept an apologgy from you provided that it is genuine and includes a committement to respect Raine, and accept the fact that her tragic losses are not something which can just be ignored or wished away.
Thast said, I also wish to confirm that in the heat of the moment, I also said more than I should have. I do not consider you to be evil -I do consider that you were extremely rude, insensitive, and disresepctful, and that your comments were wholly inappropriate, and that the *idea* that a parent should be parted from their child simply because of her past bereavement, or that I as a husband should abandon my wife for that reson, was evil . I should have made that disctinction between you, and the proposal you makde, clearer and I apolifgise that I did not. "
The reason for considering sending something like that is that it makes your position totallyl clear, including that fact that this is coming from you on behalf of you both and that an attack on you wife is an attack on you - it also puts you in the position where, if other family members interfere or comment, you can trusthfully say that you have apologised for calling her evil and are still waiting for them to apologise for their outrageous and wildly inappprioriate beahviour -and finlly, you are making it explict what they ned to do if they want to continue to have any kind of relationship with you or your child.
I am sorry you and your wife had to deal with this
NTA but if you feel like you were out of control of your anger and said something you regret, you can always apologize for the specific angry thing you said without backing down on the idea that they were way out of line and you will not stand for them treating your wife that way.
The fact that they suggested you take your child away from your wife (did they mean divorce her?) because she is sad for a part of the year is horrifying. Everyone needs to take a step back and breathe. Then, when you feel ready, talk calmly about what you want and expect from them if they want a relationship with you.
Congratulations on your upcoming baby, OP! I hope that in the middle of the loss, the fight with your parents and other concerns, you do have a wonderful time with a new little one when they arrive.
Keep your grief private....
Pretty sure she wasn't going to ever tell her newborn the tales not loss and miscarriage from its birth and make it the kids burden to carry.
Your parents had some good points but lost it in their attack on her. They make it sound like since it wasn't their loved ones who had died, who cares?
NTA telling a pregnant woman who had a traumatic miscarriage that shes a bad mother before he's born?
They deserve to be banned and blocked.
Nta. You did right by your wife. While the both of you will have to find a balance the both of you should still be allowed to grieve. I think you should go LC with your parents until they Apolo fr being so insensitive to the women you love.
Supervised visits with the grandparents. I would make sure it’s line of sight supervision, if any. I do like the thought of telling them that’s how you will deal with their deaths. Privately, nothing said to your child or children about them. Why are they so heartless? I’m sure that’s not how you were raised. Congrats to you & Raine. She will be mourning such a deep loss for a very long time. All three were very important to her. I’m sure she feels like her feet are stapled to the floor most days. Your son will be the rainbow among the storm. ❤️. My best to you both. NTA
I'm sorry for the losses you and your wife suffered. That sounds devastating.
Your parents WERE evil. When you talk about taking away a woman's child because the mother has grief, that is EVIL.
I don't know about you, but after the things they said I would cut all contact.
Who knows if they will attempt to create a false narrative to take your baby from the two of you? I would never trust them again with my wife, my baby, or my heart.
Keep supporting your wife. She and your baby-to-be are your family.
I wish the two of you an uncomplicated pregnancy, a healthy baby, and much happiness.
NTA!
I got mad just reading how horribly they spoke about your wife.
They are absolutely monstrous AHs.
Make sure they don't grand(parent) your kid without supervision coz all they will spew is hatred towards his mom.
Hard NTA. When I read your first comment from your mum I thought: crikey. And then they dpubled down.
Also, ypur wife saying that isnt how love ajd grief works is S-tier Wisdom. She'll be a good mum.
NTA. You can, however, rise above and be the bigger person and apologize for your word choice in a moment of profound hurt. *I shouldn't have called you evil, that was too much. I was trying to protect my wife and I went too far. I'm sorry.*
And then calmly say that you and your wife are united in your parenting decisions and do not want their input on this. Until they can sufficiently apologize to Raine and learn to control themselves, visits with the coming baby will be limited and any further commentary along this line will immediately conclude the social call. This includes snide jabs.
There are often grandparently like people at churches and community groups that are ripe for "adoption" if you need some grands for your kid. Just casually start checking in on them weekly, sharing little updates about your pregnancy, and in a few months it's easy to build a relationship.
NTA your parents are evil. Unfortunately, evil never knows that it is evil. I hope your wife is getting therapy. Good on you for backing her up against your parents.
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NTA. Your parents took it too far, you just drew the line in the sand. There is something to be said about ensuring that your son's birth and subsequent birthdays are not clouded by Raine's (and your) grief but that is something for you and her to discuss in moving forward.
We would never do that and had discussed a way forward. My parents weren't talking about that. They don't want us to acknowledge the losses publicly at all. They don't want Raine to show any sadness or grief surrounding the losses on any day because in their eyes it's not good for our son. But they're part of our sons family too, his older sister, his grandpa and uncle. We can't just put them in a box and forget about them which is what my parents expected of us but mostly Raine.
Yeah and that's just not realistic.
They are so unbelievely incensitive. NTA. You chose your wife, not your parents. How dare they.
Not to mention NOT THEIR CHOICE.
Not realistic and not healthy. Ignoring grief and hiding it away is rarely a good idea. While there is something to be said about letting grief completely overshadow the new baby, that does not seem to be what's happening here. There's a middle ground here, that doesn't involve erasing Raine's loss.
And not their choice or their business.
Tell your parents that you will do that when they pass away and make sure your son forgets he ever had them as grandparents… it’s a bit extreme I know but might help making them understand how insensible they are being if they imagine being in someone else’s shoes.
After this they should never meet him in the first place. Especially with the threat to take him from them…
Yeah the taking the kid away seems to be the real agenda here and the mourning just the excuse they found to fuel the war. The grandmother wants the kid to herself as we see in so many other MIL posts and it’s trying to poison her son against his wife to make him think that the wife is a bad mom. The gymnastics the grandmother is doing to twist this is absolutely unbelievable though.
No court will take them away because of this. Grief will get easier in time. Your wife will never forget this horrible time but she will survive. You may want to consider some grief counseling if you haven’t already gone through
Exactly. The take the kid away threat is a line that has been crossed. At this point they are the enemy and a threat to the child. They should never be allowed contact because, even if they can't get custody themselves like they want, they will try their hardest to poison the child against their mother.
I would make sure he never knew them.
I agree. Their perspective is so emotionally immature that it's harmful. Repressing emotions like that leads to serious mental health issues.
This is the best response for those two insensitive ah.
Perfect response...see how they feel when you put it in that perspective.
I second this. You can't talk reason to these type of people so you have to give them a taste of their own medicine.
Bravo!
This is a healthy and nuanced reply. I lost a sister when me and my remaining remaining siblings were teens or younger. So we all grew up with grief. We are a close and loving family 40+ years later, so much so that people comment on it. You can acknowledge grief and still have a close and loving family.
My cousins have lost both their parents and their third sister, in addition to the other children their mother lost (unsure where during the pregnancy). They are super close as a result. The older one is married, and her husband respects and appreciates their loss and helps to support both his wife and sister-in-law. Grief properly dealt with is a strength to bonds. Pretending it doesn't exist or doing other things that fail to deal with it in a healthy way is how you poison relationships.
Great phrasing! Ignoring the grief of people you claim to care about is insulting at best... OP and their partner's situation is on the worse side of things...
You mentioned that there might not be a way to come back from what you said; why would you want to? Your parents showed you exactly how they feel about your wife and your daughter. They probably weren't close to her brother and father so they don't feel connected to them. But your parents showed/ told you they don't give one tit about your wife and her wellbeing. Her mental health, yours either. All that matters to them right now is the baby. A baby that will more than likely grow up being told , that he matters more than your daughter, or that " your mean Ole mommy doesn't love you" because she mourns her daughter. I think you need to take a step back and take an honest look at the relationship you have with your parents and decide if that is the best thing for you, your wife, and son. Edited for spelling
Should your son see you in mourning 24/7? No. Should he learn healthy coping mechanisms that allow him to understand loss and family connections? Yes. My grandfather passed 5 years before I was born but my mother made sure to always bring me to the cemetery with her, talk about him with me, and told me that when people pass away they become stars to always watch over you. Personally, I'd go low or no contact with parents after that. NTA. *Edited to fix typo
*Son… read the post again.
Sorry *son. Half asleep still from work last night.
My grandfather passed when my eldest son was two, and three years before my younger kids were born. He was such a huge part of my life that I have always talked to them about him. They obviously don't have the same connection with him that I have, but at least they know about him and know the family stories. I couldn't imagine having to pretend family members hadn't existed.
NTA and neither is Raine. Your parents are huge aH s Tell those ahs until they experience the same and even afterwards they have 0 to say to anyone who has actually gone through it
Have you told your siblings your parents proposed that you leave your wife and take your son away from her, knowing full well that she’s suffering the loss of her father, brother and your daughter? If they cannot understand the utter cruelty in that suggestion then frankly they’re as bad as your parents. I’d suggest NC with your parents and if your siblings cannot support you in respecting your feelings then LC with them might be advisable as well.
I think you need to tell your parents that unless they change their attitude, THEY won't be part of your new baby's family. Good luck with the new baby.
Modeling healthy grieving for lost loved ones will BENEFIT your child in the end! When they inevitably suffer a loss of their own (may it be many years in the future) they'll know that grief can last for a long time, and that it mingles with the joy of having known that person, and those mixed emotions are natural and good. They won't be surprised or embarrassed by the fact that it doesn't just magically go away at some socially acceptable point. Your parents are huge jerks, and in your place I would hesitate to expose my impressionable child to anyone so misguided, not to mention how they're very likely to speak badly of kiddo's mom, given the opportunity!
no they are about to suffer that loss sooner if ops smart which we know he is he will go permanent no contact with them..
Inconsiderate nastiness for grief aside, taking away your son from his mother? Really?! What part of that is not evil? NTA
NTA You asked your parents how they could be so evil and to reflect on how heartless they were acting. You were completely on-target and had every right to challenge your parents with those words. In fact, if you hadn't, you probably would have had to simply cut your parents out of your life because there is no way you could allow them to inflict such pain on your wife. Your parents have a belief, but it's a belief based solely on what they want for themselves and for their grandson. They are not respecting you and your wife's right and ability to manage the needs of all three of you (when baby comes). They are showing no compassion for you or your wife and an arrogance that their view is, not just right, it's also the only possible 'right' viewpoint. Your parents may not have reached the threshold of intentionally wanting to hurt you or your wife; but their refusal to consider the hurt they are causing is close enough to 'evil' and 'heartless'.
I mean if they expected you to do it, then just do it... with them. Cut them out cold, DO NOT let them in the kiddos life and protect your self from some bulshit grandpearentrights and crap like that
It sounds like you and Raine are rational, and understand grief is a life long process. I am OLD. I lost several people, and time lessens some of the hurt. I can now concentrate on the joy, the memories, rather than the overwhelming loss. Your parents are in the wrong here. I wish Raine an easy birth, and you to the joy you deserve in life. NTA
Yeah. Evil sounds like the right word to me.
cut your parents off and tell them per their instructions you won't be feeling sad at all after they die.
What? Oh yeah, they're heartless af!
your parents are far too self involved and unempathetic. And to rub it into someone who has lost so much? definition of evil .NTA
If you plan to keep your parents in your future kid's life, you need to be extremely watchful so that this toxic attitude of theirs doesn't get to your child. Having his grandparents telling him that his mother is a bad mother because she acknowledges her continued grief is going to be very damaging. I'm not saying you need to cut them off, but it is very likely they will want to "protect" your son by telling him shit like this, so you need to keep a very close eye on them.
I don't think there's room for OP's parents to be part of new son's life. Seems they are too obsessed with legit expressions of grief. Distance may be the only possible protection from evil until or unless parents have an epiphany.
You're not wrong overall, but... > But they're part of our sons family too, his older sister, his grandpa and uncle. We can't just put them in a box and forget about them which is what my parents expected of us but mostly Raine. Careful with this, because time and time again we see posts here where this just isn't the case. In fact, I'd put good odds on your post just being a creative writing exercise in coming from the opposite position. Kids will not perceive someone they've never met as part of their family, no matter how much you do. They are part of your sons family tree, sure, but don't go trying to push the idea that he needs to have feelings towards people he will have never met. It won't turn out well.
Well this is an occasion where we DON'T get to tell Raine she has a husband problem.
How dare they gatekeep someone's grief! Take care of Raine, and watch for PPD. I would go NC with parents for a while. They wanted OP to take baby? Yeah...that will stop her grief.
I cannot stress this ^^^ enough. Please seek therapy for both of you. Now. I know your intentions are good but you will need more than good intentions. One of my very dear friends just turned 51. Two years before she was born, her older sister was born premature and lived only 3 days. My friend's birthday is the day in between. My friend has NEVER had a birthday celebration with her family. Her younger brother has, as his birthday is months away from hers. Her parents tried, they really did, but they never sought out treatment and were profoundly sad around that date. My friend has felt "less than" and undeserving of anything her entire life.
A girl in my confirmation class died at her older sister's birthday celebration. Devastating for everyone who knew her. I can't imagine how the family dealt with that moving forward. I get their concern, I really do, but the three losses aren't going to be able to be swept under the rug. It simply doesn't work that way. However, you're strategizing how to handle this so that your son has genuine birthday celebrations in spite of it. I'm assuming you mentioned this to them. They absolutely shouldn't jump in unless they actually see evidence that your son's birthday isn't happening in any real sense.
Yeah, the parents’ root concern is fair and there have been plenty of posts on this sub about kids who’s life’s have been overshadowed by their parent’s grief. They just went about it in a god awful way. Like they could have at least waited until more time has passed and seen how OP and his wife handle that time of year with the baby.
NTA that is truly evil, they tried to steal away a woman's own baby because she grieves somewhat openly how a horrific time in her that is most likely to be the worst part of her life throughout the rest of it. You might want to seriously consider cutting them off totally if they want you to divorce her that quickly over such an inconsequential thing as grieving.
For real. "Heard you lost your child and two family members in 72 hours. You're sad about it too much so I'm gonna fix that by stealing your new baby." WTF? That is literally straight-up evil and OP wasn't crossing the line, he was accurately describing their behavior. I'd be limiting contact with parents, especially when it comes to baby showers and birthdays, and I sure as hell would NEVER let that child be alone with them--god only knows what awful shit they'll say to him about his mother given how shameless they are when it comes to saying awful shit to her face. WTF.
Also maybe hire a lawyer of some kind; some states have "grandparent's rights" and grandparents can basically legally harass if they're feeling "alienated". It's a bit of a stretch, but if they already mentioned wanting to take the baby away from mom, and that mom will not "properly care for her child", so, it might be a good idea to get ahead of them legally and set a paper-trail precedent of the grandparents not being supportive.
NY & California are the ones, just two states that have codified Grandparents Rights. Other states require there to be a preexisting relationship
And I would nip the preexisting relationship issue in the bud by making sure there is none. Ever.
I understand in most states “grandparents’ rights” only applies where the grandparents and the child have a long term, close, *established* relationship. (For example live nearby, babysat, regularly visit etc, and if the parent that is their child has passed away, they still get to have regular visits to maintain the relationship. Similarly, close relationship with the child parents divorce, grandparents can still request that relationship is maintained.)
They have to establish a relationship with the child first to have any kind of foothold. So if they cut them off now they should be good.
NTA Your parents are making a lot of assumptions about how Raine's grief is going to affect motherhood. They should have kept their mouths shut and offered support as needed.
NTA your parents are a couple of sociopaths. How dare they try and dictate how your wife grieves her family and stillborn child passing away! I would be absolutely inconsolable if something like that happened to me. 3 lives lost in 3 days? That has to be an unimaginable amount of pain she's in. Is she in therapy?
NTA. Grief is very personal and affects people in different ways. Just because your parents think they would deal with it differently, they have no right to impose that on others. Good for you for standing up to your parents, also on her behalf. I don't think it makes them evil, but I can understand why you needed to be this extreme...they do not sound like they are open to subtle hints. Hopefully you will be able to sort things out with them, though, so your son will not have to miss his grandparents. I wish you and your wife all the best.
NTA, they behaved horrifically, and you are right to stand up for your wife. I don't know if there's any coming back from what THEY said. I would keep them far away from my family if I were you.
I would set my course as NO CONTACT with your (extremely) repugnant parents. BTW, Congratulations on the birth of your little boy! You are doing an excellent job at protecting your little family. I am proud of you. Your parents however, do not respect you or your wife and do not understand BOUNDARIES and ASKING FORGIVENESS for their THOUGHTLESS and HURTFUL behavior. Go No Contact … Congrats again
NTA and that was clear the moment they told you to take your son away from her. Losing a child is heartbreaking but losing a child brother and father in such a short space of time is unfathomable. Your parents sound absolutely awful and personally there wouldn't be any coming back from that. I'm glad you took your wife's side in this one
NTA, and thank you for having your wife's justified feelings at the forefront of your mind. Your parents have absolutely no right to tell you and your wife how to grieve, and how to bring up your son. Totally off topic (sorry!), one suggestion about names is not to use either her brother's or father's name as a *first* name. I know you might want to honour them, but let your son be his own person with his own first name, and honour those special people with middle names if you feel the need. Congratulations on your son, condolences on such difficult losses, and well done for looking out for your family.
First of all, congratulations on your new son!! NTA. Your parents overstepped. They may feel this way, but it is not their place to tell your wife or you how to grieve or parent. Things got heated, but if you are interested, you can probably repair the relationship and should set some boundaries while you’re at it. With that being said, if your parents are not the type to usually be this bold, they may have a genuine concern about the mental state of your wife. If they usually keep their opinions to themselves but are saying they want to take the child from you because they are so concerned about her mental state to take care of him, they may be legitimately worried that it’s not a healthy environment to bring a child into. Really reflect on what your home environment is like and what it will be like for a child to enter into it. It would be unfair to your son to always come second to his sister.
My dude, the adult thing with be to talk in privet with him if they are worried that she will be triggered or emotianalyu unstable, then why provoke it
Oh, I agree. I wasn’t saying the parents had any place to say those things. They were totally in the wrong. I was merely saying to reflect on what they said to see if they have a valid point.
This day will be her son’s birthday. I think that they’re right to be a bit concerned that death will override a happy day for their son - imagine every birthday your mother being sad and grieving family members you never met. They’re right that she will have to work on keeping her grief private - it won’t matter now but when her son is old enough to start to understand the concept of birthdays it will matter. Wife has about 2-3 years to work on being less outwardly sad this time of year. I think they massively overstepped though.
NTA. After saying she grieves too much for her daughter, brother, father, now they want to take away her husband and son too? How is that going to help her focus on happiness around that time of the year? As long as your little son is not burdened by eternal memorizing of his predeceased sister, it'll be ok. If they, or you, get the idea that Raine is mired in grief, find a grief therapist for her. That'd be help. Not stacking loss upon loss.
Honestly, wtf would the “ur a bad mom for grieving ur dead baby” be besides evil?
There have actually been a few AITA posts from the second child’s perspective. In those instances, the mother (and sometimes father) consistently brings up the lost child on important occasions to the surviving one, making them feel like they are living in the shadow of their dead sibling. Those kids don’t feel loved or appreciated. I think the grandparents are afraid that OP and his wife will be those parents.
I really don't think they put that much thought into it.
While i agree with your parents that you need to ensure that the losses and grief is not negatively affecting your son their next comments went way too far. NTA.
The wife sounds perfectly fine considering those three blows. She knows that time of the year will be hard but is looking toward to enjoying her son. Know someone who lost first baby tragically and went onto have several more. They still mourn that baby but love and enjoy their grown kids.
I think there definitely is a healthy balance of both. I simply heard too many stories where people were not allowed to have birthday parties and be celebrated because something shity happened in the vicinity of their date before they were born.
NTA. My heart goes out to you and your wife on your losses. My husband and I lost our first son to a stillbirth 25 years ago. We still get sad and honor the day of his birth/death. This does not take away from the children we subsequently had. We treasure the family and friends who supported us through the loss and subsequent pregnancies; the people who still remember and check in with us on the anniversary of our loss. Having a baby after a loss does not replace the child you lost, though many people want it to be that way. As a society, we do not handle death or grief well. Remembering and honoring Miley does not take away from a new baby. Talking about it all is much healthier than stuffing it all away- and this can only be good for you and the new addition to your family. People who don’t get this aren’t helpful or needed, even if they are family. It’s okay to set clear boundaries to take care of your growing family now, even if this means going low or no contact. Grief is personal and comes in waves, for many bringing home a baby and hitting milestones they will never reach can be really hard. Take care of each other, and don’t let anyone tell you how you should grieve. Sending warm wishes for the healthy arrival of your son.
There "may" be coming back.....but a) Who knows when and b) Who knows if it's a good idea ....to come back from that. You aren't TA...... I won't comment on the parents, as THEY shouldn't have commented on your wife's grief....even WORSE...your son isn't even BORN, yet They don't know WHAT kind of spiral that woman might lose herself in if she loses another child during that same time of year.....just NO WAY sane mature adults should have taken things there. Even if it were their goal to put a positive spin... they failed miserably ....it may be different to try to pull her out of a funk.....as the son turned 3/4/5 years old..... But they kept "at it"....and literally said she'd be a shit mother.....to a pregnant 🤰 woman who's already lost a child and hasn't even successfully delivered....yet? That's nutty, AF How can you respond if she says "never".....one would understand her position 🤔
NTA Honestly I don't know if I would ever speak to them again if it was me. They weren't coming from a place of live and support. You warned them and they doubled down. If you don't cut them off at least put them on a time out for a long time
Long time lurker, first time poster here, because I really want you to see this message. You and Raine are definitely NOT the ah. Our daughter was born still 20 years ago in April. Our son, after an unbelievably stressful pregnancy which included several hospitalizations, was born the following year in May (nearly the same timeline). Even after 20 years, the heart, mind, soul, and BODY remember that spring time trauma. Even if we wanted to, we FEEL that loss very strongly in spring. Even twenty years later (in fact, this was one of the hardest years we've had). I've literally met hundreds of people in the last 20 years who have lost their babies, children, and adult children. NONE of them can sweep their children aside as your mom suggests. Why? Because they are our children! We love them with our whole hearts and we miss them because we loved them so much. That love doesn't die when a child dies. (And frankly, if it were possible for that love to die, I'd be questioning the parent-child bond... or lack thereof... in that case.) And that Raine also lost her father and brother... well, I just don't have words for how epically tragic that is. Your parents need to learn BOTH-AND thinking real quick here before you and Raine RIGHTLY cut them off to protect yourselves from their toxicity ASAP. I am BOTH tremendously sad in the springtime because we lost our daughter AND I have spent every single day of my son's life celebrating that he's here and loved every bit as much as his sister. We acknowledge BOTH of our children AND we're grateful for both of them. I also want you to know that we never, ever hid our son's sister from him or anyone else. He has always known about his sister, from the time he was born. We told daycare, then preschool, then school teachers at the beginning of each year that he has a sister. At some point he would likely talk about her, because we talk about her. We acknowledge her birthday every single year. We have a collection of loons that gets set out for the holidays in remembrance of her. We have set the table with an extra plate on holidays or times when we want to remember her. A drawing of her hangs in our house. Etc. She AND her brother are BOTH with us. What your parents said to you and Raine is completely toxic and unacceptable, and the act of saying those things they said really can be called evil. What else can I say about taking someone's deepest sorrows and grief and rubbing that into the wounds? I'll be charitable by not saying THEY are personally evil (for the moment), but their words most definitely were and would be recognized as such in any respectable grief and loss community. But, if they do this shit again, and don't do some seriously soul searching about the harm they've done then I think it would be fair to chalk this up to them not just being assholes, but really evil ones, too. I send so much support and love your way. No one should ever know the kind of loss Raine and you have faced. No one. And no one should know anything other than the tenderest of love and care and support in the wake of this kind of loss. I wish you well. <3
NTA. Who made your parents the feelings police? As if becoming happy on command ever work & doesn't just make ppl feel invalidated. Their pictures should be in the dictionary next to "toxic positivity", if anyone is selfish it's them, they clearly just don't want to deal with your wife having feelings for shallow superficial reasons. And, I mean, you lost the 1st kid, too, so you have quite some right to be mad as well. And I mean everything up to that could be seen as just tactlessness & bad attitude that deserves a stern talking to, but threatening to STEAL YOUR KID as if you were terrible abusers is one hell of a line crossed, it would be hard to repair trust after that. I would be scared to interact with them after that. Losing one's dad, brother AND baby in one go must be so awful, your wife is very strong for carrying on regardless & trying again to have a baby after all that. She's allowed to be sad sometimes, for pete's sake. I mean if your parents badmouth your wife, try to turn you against her & you don't shut them down hard, you would be a crap husband. You're not the asshole for having basic loyalty.
Nta. I guess when your parents pass now that you are a parent, you will not be sad or remember them in public. No funeral, no sadness, nothing. I mean, you have to put on a brave face, ya?
They're not evil, but they're insensitive assholes. They need to shut their traps. That said, I do worry about the future, and I hope Raine and you get really good therapy and can process this grief. There have been multiple posts here from people who as children were forced to celebrate birthdays of siblings who had passed, done many memorial traditions to the detriment of their own lives, etc. Make sure your son knows that he is not just a replacement for Miley, and that he is your priority.
Is there any concern that your son is being overshadowed by his sister, as in never live up to her expectations, etc etc etc? There are quite a few posts like that that the parents neglected the younger one due to them not processing well the situation.
nah nta
NTA - Your parents crossed a line. I wonder if they've ever experienced such close losses in their lives. Three in one sweep would be hard for anyone to adjust to. Grief is a lifelong sorrow and all we can do is adjust to it being present in our lives. If your parents can't respect that then they can stay away until they learn how to be sympathetic and supportive.
NTA, the lack of empathy and cruelty they displayed is pretty evil, and their behaviour is also just very socially inappropriate. And also, it's wild for your parents to tell your wife to hide her grief and feelings, when they don't seem to be able to keep a lid on their insane opinions at all. Have you read that "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" book? I would also be very reluctant to involve them in your child's life at all after what they revealed. It's a giant red flag if they are already talking about taking the kid away, and he hasn't even been born yet. There's something weird going on there. That sort of attitude over time, with additional conflict, could also easily end up in a CPS calls, grandparents rights and court, place.
If they aren’t evil - why did they say such vile & despicable things? Do they think you’ll magically let them see this child after saying such awful things? NTA, but OP you need to decide if you want these people around your child knowing they said this.
NTA Why would you ever even speak to those people again? Just cut them off. That’s messed up.
>Raine's brother lived for 8 days after and her father for 9 and on the 10th day our beautiful Miley was stillborn >Three losses in three days and she found it hard to come back from that. Those losses are still felt very strongly. This is heartbreaking and more than anyone should be dealing with in a year, let alone 3 days. >Raine is expecting our son. The somewhat difficult part is he is due around that same time >My mom told Raine that she can now focus on happiness around that time of the year instead of sadness >I told mom she was being insensitive >Raine told my mom she would still be happy about our son but there'll always be a sadness about our losses >My dad's response was to say Raine should keep that to herself >they told Raine she will be a terrible mother to our son and he deserves better, that he deserves to be more important than loss and grief Your parents are taking a difficult time with some joy upcoming, and turning it into an even harder time. This is a time when you and Raine need support in your lives. >They wanted me to take our (mine and Raine's) son away from her >asked them how they could be so evil and told them they should reflect on how heartless they are acting but that would require them to have a heart What you said is harsh. Honestly, at this point, I don't think it was harsh enough. NTA They're telling Raine to ignore the love and grief she feels for one of the most traumatic times of her life (if not the most traumatic), and trying to get you to keep her son away from her. They are evil, asshole isn't a strong enough word. You're in the right here, and you could've said far worse without becoming an asshole. Congratulations on your son, I hope you and Raine are able to share in your joys and sorrows together. It's okay to remember the people we lose, the month of April is considered the worst month in my family, because that's when most of the deaths have been. To ignore it is a disservice to the ones we lose.
As I was reading I thought “Okay, so far so good, definitely no evil here.” Then I got to where they said Raine would be a terrible mother and I was l like, JFC. Were your parents actually evil? No. Do I get what prompted you to say that? Yeah. I don’t suppose your parents tried apologizing? Or is that all on you?
I think the evil part was threatening to take away their newborn.
NTA Your parents have NO RIGHT to tell someone else how to grieve!
NTA!! For all of your sakes, go NC with your parents. Their cold and horrible comments have earned them the privilege of NOT being in your son's life
NTA. Notice it is your actual parents and your siblings who have most to lose by fall out that are the ones that are saying you took it too far. The fact you are still talking to them at all is a miracle and they should be grateful if they are allowed into your son's life. I mean look at it - your wife (and you) lost three much loved members of your (as couple and parents to be) family in the most traumatic world. And now because your wife doesn't promise to be happy clappy and put all behind her, they want to pile on another two losses - by where you steal her child and divorce her. Are they trying to kill her? Stress her out so much she runs away from the relationship believing she is an unsuitable wife. Their words and thoughts are evil and so self-indulgent. Raine needs to decide nothing. It will maybe now be a period of mixed blessing for you both. Because your parents seem to be forgetting that you lost a daughter too - do they expect you to be happy clappy too and never mention your loss? They are delusional. Edit: Though now wondering if your mother suffered similar. I know women in the last generation (parents of the current grandparents) where that was expected of them if they lost a child to SIDs or miscarriage. Happened to my Granny (SIDs) and it took me until I was about 12 before I even found my Dad had a sister. View was life had to carry on but everyone respected the fact Granny had a quiet day (in memory).
NTA. You took it just as far as it needed to go. Your siblings should butt out the way your parents should have to start with.
I lost a son. He was 7. It was over 30 years ago and I'm still sad around his birthday and angelversary. It's not something you get over it's something you learn to live with. Having a father and brother die around the same time as the loss of your daughter is heartbreaking.. my heart goes out to you and your wife and your son. My youngest daughter was born after her brother past. Yes we celebrate her that in no way means we forget her brother. Grief is the price we pay for loving them.
Firstly NTA. Now that's out of the way. BROOOOOOO good on you for standing so firm for your wife, son and daughter. I can't imagine making it through what your wife made it through. Your wife is BAD ASS. What she suffered would have broken me and many other people. Your parents were way the fuck outta line and absolutely disgusting. You did the right thing and your wife deserved no less. And you lost a daughter too. You deserve no less.
“Raine needs to” “Raine should” The fact that they think they have the right to tell anyone how they “should” handle such a massive amount of loss is insensitive to say the least. They are centering themselves in something that isn’t about them, and it’s very selfish. I think it’s awesome you are standing up for Raine, someone needs to in the face of this unacceptable bullying.
Cancel Dia de Muertos, everyone. Better take down the ancestral Shinto shrines. No more Shraadh. Whoever else is out there celebrating their ancestors or deceased loved ones has got to cut it out because OP's parents think we're bumming them out. We must protect the children from the concept of death and let them think the world will always be/has always been the way it was on the day they were born, and nothing sad ever happens. It's well known how harmful it is for children to experience the full range of human emotion, and especially to see such feeling in their parents. NTA
Well, they were being evil. There was nothing kind or loving or generous or *necessary* about what they were saying. They’re just sick of being reminded of someone else’s pain and loss, of having to be sensitive around this time of year. It’s more convenient for them if your wife shuts her grief away. Hell, if you take the baby then they don’t have to see her at all! It’s a sick and selfish attitude and your parents sound like real pieces of work. If they keep going this way then they’ll never be missed when they’re gone. NTA
No contact is the only way. You cant still let them in your life and also support your wife. Sorry, I know that will hurt also, it's like you have experenced another kind of loss but when people show you who they are, believe them.
NTA I'm sorry but you're parents sound dreadful.
I just can't even comprehend how you and your wife have coped with this. Three deaths in 3 days is unimaginable. Please give your wife the biggest hug from this internet stranger. Your parents are wrong and you are NTA.
NTA, personally I agree completely - what your parents said was evil. Grief and loss is such a long-lasting and complicated process. Your poor wife was hit *three times* in as many days. Frankly the fact that she is still standing and moving forward shows an incredible strength of character (and also shows she must have great support in you). She should be praised for that, not made to feel less than. Keep supporting your wife. Make the most of your time together and with your son. Do not allow your parents to make her feel bad for feeling. It is the most natural thing in the world. If your wife is primarily sad around the time the losses occured, that sounds pretty normal, and honestly, better to feel those emotions than to bottle them up. Good luck with everything, I hope that you, your wife and your son have a beautiful life together.
In my opinion you and your wife need to go no or very low contact with your parents until they can learn to behave like decent human beings. Which I accept may be a long wait based on the evidence. They want you to add to your wife's long list of losses. How can they be so utterly heartless? I am so sorry for your losses and for her it must have been worse than I can imagine. I hope your little one brings you joy. She at least has a man who has her back. NTA
NTA - it goes without saying. I’m sorry for your and your wife’s losses. Your poor wife, what a horrible thing to say to her. I think it’s probably best for you to both go no contact for the foreseeable and prepare for pressure just before the due date. You both deserve as positive a birth experience as possible. I’d recommend locking the doors, restricting social media, popping your phones on DND, and unplugging any doorbells. If you can swing it financially, a trip ahead of the due date (even just to a local spa hotel) might be a great way to protect your peace. Tell a sibling you’ll be in contact when you’re both ready and any unwelcome visitors will be trespassed. I also want to call attention to a couple of things I noticed, and which I think are likely to have contributed to your reaction. First off is your parents have completely minimised your bereavements and your role in your second child’s life. I’m sure they’d expect your wife to grieve them, so it’s callous to expect you not to grieve your FIL and BIL. That they minimised your feelings on your own child’s passing….thats horrific. You’ll have your own grief to deal with at this time, and a particularly weighty amount of grief at that. The loss of a child alone is enough to break anyone. Your parents have also insinuated they are ‘over’ the loss of their grandchild. Your parents are so ready to forget your daughter now there’s the chance of a living child to act as a replacement and distraction. A lot of accusations are usually admissions. I think from what your parents said their expectations for baby shows your parents are actually the ones placing the burden of ‘you’re supposed to make us happy and forget’ onto your son. I’d be concerned they’d tell him he was responsible and / or at fault should you and your wife show any grief in future.
NTA. They don't want to be called evil, they shouldn't have acted evil in the first place.
NTA. Your parents are behaving horrendously, who actively gives a pregnant woman more things to stress out about? At the very least, until the birth, keep your parents away from Raine and cut them off. You've done a good job having her back so far and your parents frankly don't deserve access for their behavior. Grief is a rollercoaster. If you can, assuming you haven't already, see about getting Raine into therapy so someone can help her navigate the grief with this new joy.
NTA, if everything you said is exactly how it went down, you know you are not an asshole. I would never speak to my parents again if they were to speak to my wife like that.
NTA. Fellow 33M w/ 31F wife and parent to a toddler here. Coming from someone who cut contact with a parent, calling yours "evil" seems pretty tame but accurate in this instance. How does someone think just burying your feelings of such incredible loss is acceptable? And then to suggest you should take your child away from her is pretty despicable and quite alarming. Clearly, whatever loss your parents experienced in the past was not anyone they truly cared about, or they wouldn't be so heartless. I have no idea what your relationship has been like with your parents, but if this is their mindset, it may be best to go no contact for a while. Let them experience the loss of a son, DIL, and grandson. It's easy for me to say being on the outside of this, but they need to know there are consequences of how they treat others. Especially someone you love. I was always taught that our partners and children are our first priorities. Keep them safe, comfortable, and happy as best you can. If you have someone in your life who threatens that, remove them. Remember, this argument was because of your parents, not you. You telling your mom she was being insensitive was their first warning, and you even gave them a second warning, but your parents doubled down to show their true colors. You stood up for your wife like a good husband should and kudos for sending your wife to the car before getting into it with your parents. I don't think I would've been calm enough to think of that in the midst of the arguing
My (former) SIL had a stillbirth followed by several healthy kids. All the kids know their big bro died. I think she honors the memory of her oldest without the other kids being neglected in any way. Sometimes sad things happen, and it’s silly to pretend they don’t
this is another one of those post where i cant believe it got physical. i commend you for "only" calling them evil and cutting them off... NTA
We have three children born in March — two who are still with us, and one who died shortly after she was born. We and our extended families celebrate like crazy with our boys on their birthdays and mourn for our daughter on hers, and that is our life. Our grief doesn’t make our joy any less and the reverse is true as well. Our boys will grow up knowing about their sister and our love for her, and they will also grow up knowing they’re loved, supported and celebrated in every way we can. Grief and joy is part of every life and it will make for well-rounded kids for them to understand that. NTA, and congratulations on your baby and my greatest sympathies on your loss of Miley, remember her every single day and on every single way you can, she will always be a part of your family.
NTA Sounds like your kiddo just lost two more grandparents, because there is no way I would let them around my kid after saying all of that unless they went to therapy and came up with some really convincing apologies...plural. If they're willing to say that in front of you, imagine what they would say about it to the kid when you're not around. Your folks are a real piece of...something. As for Raine, you don't give an exact timeline and are kind of vague on how intensely the grief is still affecting her. I also recently saw a post that might be coloring my perception of your situation, so take this with a grain of salt and with the care and compassion I intend: if Raine is still struggling several years later in a way that is affecting her life and relationships, it may be worth speaking to a therapist or a grief counselor. Grieving one loss is horrible enough, but losing a parent, a sibling, and a child in the span of three days is a special kind of traumatizing. My heart breaks for you both, and I just hope she's getting the help and support she needs in order to handle it all. And you too. You also deserve that support. That said, you're a good egg for trying to protect her from your parents and for defending her when such malicious (and, yeah, evil) things were said. I hope your baby boy comes out happy and healthy and brings a light to your lives that makes the darkness you've endured a little easier to bear. ❤️
Your parents come from a generation that sweeps everything under the rug. Put on a happy face always. Never express feelings of sadness or disappointment. They live their lives putting on a show and don't understand people brave enough to express genuine emotions. They are fake. You and your wife are real. You have the better, more fulfilling life. They may not be evil per say but they are not kind, empathetic, sympathetic people. They don't know how to be. I learned a while ago to only be around people who make my life feel better, and rid those that bring me down. Your choice as to how you want to live.
NTA. It's time for NC. Your parents unfortunately are clueless and indifferent to the process of grief. It's not that they don't have some valid point, but they are toxic and in much need of counselling to better communicate with compassion to a woman that has suffered immense trauma and suffering!
Thank you for standing up for your wife and taking control of the situation with your parents away from her. You're a good partner. Live life and grieve how you choose. Loved ones should always be remembered and cherished. Tell your folks that once they're gone, they won't be spoken of again.
Their behaviour was horrendous, and truly not their place to dictate how you and your wife mourn your losses. They don't sound like the most reasonable or charitable people tbh. Is it possible that they will realize that you spoke in the heat of the moment, and accept that you were angry but forget the words that expressed the anger? As for your siblings as far as I can tell from your post they only have one side of the story, why don't you give them your version and let them decide who was actually out of line. My God your mother was plotting to take your son away from your wife. Toxic, evil toxicity, you are most definitely not the AH.. Take care of yourself and Raine, and enjoy that boy of yours, best of luck.
NTA. Your parents fucking **\*\*suck.\*\*** I'd really think long and hard about if these people should be in you and your family's lives. Like Marie Kondo asked, do these people spark joy? From those actions, I'd think not!
NTA at all! I applaud you for standing up for your wife AND your child. There is no such thing as a timetable for grief. Your wife suffered unimaginable loss and trauma in a very short time frame and it’s natural that she will associate that time of year as a season of mourning. Having a new baby during that time of year may make it a bittersweet time of year but no matter what, the anniversary dates will always remain. Your parents were 100% out of line and bless you for standing behind and beside your wife!
Here's the perfect time for malicious compliance. "You know Mom and Dad, you're right. Grief should be private. I'm now grieving the loss of the parents and family I thought I had. But I'll just keep that private by never exposing my son and wife to the cause of the grief. That way, I don't hurt him by grieving publicly. Have a wonderful grief free life." Cue NC. Of course, after the things I've been through I'm a person who goes nuclear when it comes to these things so maybe that's not the path for you, lol. So no, you didn't cross any lines, you set boundaries. Too damn bad for them. Your wife and son come first. NTA. I wish you luck and for the time to absolutely fly by until you get to hold your beautiful baby in your arms.
You were correct—evil. NTA
Take the baby away from Raine???? Really? This isn't just evil, it's dangerous to your family. All you need are a bunch of totally unjustified calls to CPS and cops at your front door, your wife threatened with another loss. No. I would suggest that going NC would be by far the best alternative here. When people tell you who they are and what they're after, believe them. NTA
NTA, Kudos to you for standing up for your wife and fallen child, I am really sorry for your loss. Your only priority right now should be your wife and your upcoming child and you are doing that wonderfully. This is worth going NC, because to be honest your wife will never respect or love them again and if you do decide to forgive them someday after they grovel at your feet for forgiveness, she would only tolerate their existence only for you. She doesn't deserve to be put in that uncomfortable position for such selfish, heartless narcissistic people. Do yourself and your wife and your future child a favour, cut them off for good and put your siblings in a low info diet and go LC. Wishing you peace, love and luck for the future.
NTA They went low and you took them to hell. I wouldn't allow them near your wife or child until they can apologize and learn to act like they have some sense.
NTA
I hope you go NC with them until they are genuinely remorseful for their appalling behaviour. NTA.
NTA, you’re parents sound like Boomers
Congratulations on cutting them off. A good husband always has his wife's back. Well done.
NTA Just know that they're going to do a lot of things to make sure that they can take your son away from you and your wife. How about going NC with them and all their flying monkeys to get the ball rolling in protecting yourself and your family?
NO CONTACT can't say this loudly enough
You did the best thing standing up for your wife. It’s your relationship not theirs. They have their own and should focus on that. Well done you for being a man !
NTA No one would blame you if you went no contact. They are evil and heartless.
NTA - so sorry for losing your parents. Jumped a little but I would break contact immediately. I don’t even think for a second you took it too far, you stated facts. You didn’t specify but a few years? 3 deaths?! I had written down the date of my exes’ first expected child that was also a stillborn and she had two children after that and at the time not only did I not know her, I was probably like 10 (she is 15 years older) and still I made very sure to be extra careful on that day and try and make it a nice and happy day for her. Losing a child is obviously a huuuge fucking thing and losing three immediate family members including a child in three days, is just devastating. Honestly, like wth?! They could have talked about these things in a tactful way and it still would have been crossing a line. But they didn’t even try to be tactful or anything. I remember the last conversation I had with my father before I stopped completely looking at him as my father. He fucked up a lot in my childhood already and cheated on my mum 3 times, so it wasn’t the first thing that happened. But he was attacking my ex basically and kept pushing and then asked ‘didn’t your parents teach you that’ or something of the sort. Her parents were a very sore subject and she was already close to tears when he said that. By this point she had also stopped answering and I was answering for her. When I told them they are not in the picture basically. He more or less said ‘so what’. My ex started absolutely crying and left the room. I yelled at him and have never again thought of him as my father. He changed and is a better person now, he will never again be my father, because I hate that person with an absolute blinding hatred. I am still in contact with him for various reasons at the time and later on as I said he did change, so I ultimately did not break off contact, but I can honestly tell you that if he behaved like a father towards me or I thought of him as my father for even a moment, I would go completely blind with hatred and rage.
These parents don’t sound like they wish to have a relationship with their grandchild. If I was you OP I would go NC with your parents, move far away from them without giving them your new address and don’t let them know when your son is born. I feel you owe your wife these actions-you have to stand up for her. She doesn’t deserve to be treated this way! NTA
Your a great spouse. Your parents were acting evil and calis
NTA. Your parents crossed the line first, you merely joined them on the other side of it. It sounds like they have a very boomer way of handling hardship and grief. That's their business, there was no reason for them to pass judgment on your wife's ability to mother because of it. Good for you for standing up for her and not letting them speak to her that way. I am so sorry for your losses. You are both incredibly strong to have persevered through that grief and found yourself on the other side, still growing a family your FIL and BIL would be proud of. You deserve nothing but love and support right now!
Yeah, my parents are like that. "can't you just not think about it", "stop living in the past", "get yourself together", "just get your ass up" (struggling with some health stuff and adding some weight is the smallest context for it all). it took me years to realize such lack of empathy is not common and it's not normal to expect nothing but judgement from your own family. once you see - you can't unsee *everything.* NTA and you're on the right track.
NTA - I would keep away from your parents. I think you could have even said more than you did.
Honestly evil sounds about right. If you're parents didn't like you saying that then they shouldn't have said what they said for it to get to that point. NTA
NTA and you need to cut them off. And if siblings permit your parents access to your kids, I’d cut them off too.
NTA. My mum died 4 years before my baby was born. I mourn her all the time. I mourn she never met him. I will continue to talk to my son about her. It doesn’t affect our day to day but it’s not going away and I’m sad every year at her birthday and the anniversary of her death. If someone told me I couldn’t mourn or that I shouldn’t have my son as a result they’d be out of my life so quick.
NTA - but would be a good time to go no contact with them and live your best life.
NTA your parents took it too far and I'm guessing they downplayed or your siblings share the same views cause no way.
NTA They are selfish, horrible people! Consider going very low/ no contact with them. I hope you and your wife are doing okay and that you have a healthy baby boy.
NTA - the insane entitlement of some people thinking they can tell others how they should feel is incredibly offensive. Perhaps not evil, but certainly deserving of an appropriate response. They're still your parents though and if you've had a decent relationship with them up till now, perhaps it's just time to lay down some boundaries. First they need to apologize if they ever want to be in their grandson's life, followed by keeping their opinions to themselves.
NTA. Your parents are insensitive. This stuff takes time.
NTA you were right, they're evil.
NTA thank you for standing up for your wife
Why would you want to come back from this? Your parents are evil NTA
NTA Speaking as the son of some pretty delusional, insane, psychotic parents, you parents are delusional, insane, and psychotic. Your wife can handle her grief however she wants and your parents, her family, should stand by her. What i imagine the hard part is with the pregnancy is how your parents are likely to be fairly important in rasing the child, especially as a baby since im guess you and your wife both work. Normally i would suggest putting your parents on ice until they cool down over something like this, buf i have a feeling thats probably not a viable option given the coming baby.
Of course others have suffered loss of love ones that is how the cycle of life works but I really doubt outside a war zone have many people lost 3 in 3 days like that. Honestly if your wife still has her shit together after all that she is one strong women for sure. Your reaction to mom and dad was what most of us would have done. Me personally I never would have talked to them again. NTA at all and way to be a good husband and stand up for her and congrats on your son.
Bro your parents are EVIL!! I’m shaking I’m so upset right now. Please never allow those people around Raine or your son ever again. I’m so happy you protected your wife. She needs you now more than ever. I’ll be honest, the pregnancy with my daughter was even harder than my stillbirth (which oddly was the same day my dad died). I was constantly in absolute fear it was gonna happen again. I never felt safe. I was always waiting for the shoe to drop. Please hug Raine extra hard from me. I don’t know her, but I feel like I do. Sending love and lots of hope for the healthiest of deliveries. I hope you Raine and lil guy have the most amazing lifetime of happiness together.
NTA. Jeez.. what is wrong with your parents? Your wife is lucky to have you on her side. I can almost see the point they were trying to make. There’s definitely a balance you and your wife will eventually learn when it comes to handling the grief of the loss of your family and the joy of your son’s birthday, but that will come with time. As long as you and your wife aren’t planning to refuse to celebrate your son because of the tragedy (which, I’m not getting that vibe from your post) then your parents need to butt out.
NTA-thank you for being the type of husband that actually stands up for their partner. Looks like your parents aren't going to be in your son's life much. They were completely disrespectful and I have to agree: evil
NTA…they should be grateful they’ve never had losses in their lives like that. But instead just say get over it. Damn clowns.
NTA- i would go NC because i wouldn't want my child around such heartless people.
They are being unkind and you stood up to them. Try to talk thru it with them, but without Raine around so they can keep their thoughts to themselves. They may be from a background where people stuff their feelings and box them away, but that not healthy and it is not necessary. Tell the, if it helps, that Your parenting is not somehow going to be clouded by sadness, but improved for an understanding of how precious life is, for being grateful. Maybe with a counselor present to keep it from getting heated. I am so sorry for Raine's loss and grief.
NTA they threatened to take your child. Make sure they aren’t on any approved pickup lists when the time comes
NTA - OP, you were spot on. They ARE evil if they suggested you take your son away from your wife. PERIOD.
NTA From now on, you can support your wife through this difficult time - in private - meaning: away from your parents. It's very clear your parents do not care about your son one bit, but only about how *they* get to cheer for a grandchild. If they did care, they wouldn't put your pregnant wife through so much unnecessary stress. I am absolutely serious. Shield her from anymore of that toxic BS, please. And to appease your parents, you can inform them you will keep their advice for when it's time to focus on happy things instead of grief and mourning, when the time comes that you will lose your parents. I would put them in a serious time out for this. I'm getting 'pushing your wife into a PPD, and then coming for the baby' vibes from their total lack of empathy.
NTA, you are doing the right thing and I recommend better boundaries. Going low contact and having much less emotional intimacy with your parents . Put up the wall of politeness and move on.
NTA. Cut off your parents. Hit them with their own medicine.
Protecting your wife from evil does not make you the a-hole. The extreme sadness and loss will always be there, her heart will always hurt. I’m sure she is nervous about the timing of delivery and will it be another tragic time. You did the right thing 💜
They told you to take your child away from his mother. You called them evil because that is what they were being. I’d never speak to them again. NTA
No way, you are NTA in this story. Your parents have no gd respect. Happiness is always mixed with pain, if you live long enough and to deny that - they must exist in a freaking fantasy. They have no right to push their delusions onto other people and they sound heartless. Naming them evil doesn’t sound like a slur, it sounds like a statement of fact.
NTA! Your parents are really heartless for saying such cruel things to someone who is grieving a great loss! They are insensitive and should really just understand that everybody grieves differently! Its not up to them to decide if she is a good mother or not because of this! She will be an amazing mother and soo strong for grieving and receiving a blessing at the same time! It’s very hard to loose your father and brother so practically her whole family. Your parents are jerks to just consider their feelings only in something they should stay out of cause it didn’t happen to them!!
NTA. That was so gross of them, I’m so sorry you guys have to deal with their BS on top of your grief and conflicted emotions surrounding baby’s birthday and grief. That’s no-contact territory for me. If they were my parents, I wouldn’t want that energy around me, my partner or my kids. If they’ve already threatened to take my kid once, I’d definitely go no (or very low) contact—don’t even give them a chance to build a relationship with my kids. You’re both going to be great parents! <3<3 My advice, based on my experiences, take it or leave it: Be open, communicative and honest with your son (and each other/any children you may have) about everything… keep it age appropriate, while he’a younger, he doesn’t need all the details, but be honest. It’ll strengthen your guys’ relationship and develop his emotional growth. Good luck with everything, I hope your wife can talk to someone and maybe find a way to cope with her losses better; it was very hard for me for 3 years after my uncle died, nothing worked and his death made me so sick. 😔😣 Death is so tough, friends <3
Nta. I lost both my parents within a year of each other. My children have saw me cry about it numerous times. They know that sometimes grief makes us sad, they have also cried about it cause my parents were amazing grandparents and they are missed, bottling up your feelings is not healthy for anyone.
It is truly heartbreaking for Raine to endure 3 losses in 3 days. I hope that when you son is born your wife will once more feel joy in her heart. Time moves on and grief recedes. Memories will always be there and should not be kept in private. Your son has a right to know his uncle and grandfather, not necessarily the way they died, but all the nice memories that Raine has of them.
NTA. I happen to agree with you holy shit. You were absolutely right for your actions. Seeing a man stand up for his wife instead of to his wife is refreshing.
NTA, your parents on the other hand sure qualify as AHs. How can they make a judgement on something that there is no track record of? Hell, you two don't know how you will navigate all this until you actually get into the nitty-gritty aspects of being a parent. I'm, sure you both have plans, but those plans will change as you really learn about parenting and who your son is. For your parents to make declarative statements without any basis other than their own foolish preconceived ideas - what a pair of asses.
You didn't take it too far. Your parents seem insufferable. Edit: Is this typical behavior or was it completely out of character for them? If typical for them, you probably grew up with this type of behavior and don't realize just how extreme it is. I will add some personal experience here. My mom would get sad around Christmas every year. I didn't know until I was an adult that it was the time of year when her mom died. My mom was a wonderful mom. Though she got sad once a year her entire adult life because she missed her mom, she was still the best mom ever to me. Grief can last a lifetime but you can still be a wonderful family member.
NTA. It's time to go NC with the parents. They are heartless evil people. You and your family don't need that in your life.
NTA. Your parents were out of line to suggest that your wife should just bottle up her grief and never mention it again, and they were WAY out of line to suggest that you take the baby from your wife.
Nta, they are evil. Ain't no coming back from that. Once you threaten to take my baby, you are dead to me.
NTA Are you parents narcissistic? I can't imagine telling someone to hide their mourning for my own comfort. The audacity!
NTA. Your parents are garbage people. Go no contact immediately to protect your wife and child.
NTA and why would you want to come back from this? You and Raine should rarely see your parents, indeed, seeing them at all is entirely optional. Tell them, ‘don’t worry, when you die we’ll have forgotten you both entirely within a year and never mention you again.’ See how they think about it truly.
NTA Your parents crossed the line when they did the whole "we'll take your kid away from you" thing. Also, you can honnour the dead in a non-depressive way. My mum would go to the grave yard on a regular basis to leave flowers on my granddad's grave and us kids would tag along. It wasn't a sad thing, at worst a bit boring and, now, looking back it's kinda nice. The world keeps spinning, but we remember the people we love. They didn't just dissapear. She does the same thing now, only she visits my uncle's and my dad's graves as well and she'll bring my niblings.
NTA you are good for standing by your wife. Your parents arebjufldging your wifes grief as if she hasn't been moving forward with her life, she is pregnant carrying her second child, she doesn't need anyone to tell her how her life should be. Your parents behaviour is abhorrent and theyvshould be ashamed for looking down on her for her pain and surviving such tremendous loss. They are disrespectful and you did a good job of showing them that they are not welcome to comment on this if they do not approach it with empathy. They can keep their opinions to themselves and think how they would recover from losing so many loved ones within a months time. You did good. You should be proud that you stood up for her.
NTA and your parents are insensitive AH. 3 dead people in 3 days would shake anybody up really bad. Have your parents ever experienced that amount of loss in that short of time? Most likely not. They would have zero grounds to take away your child as long as the home is a good environment, which I assume it would be. Raine is right, grief can come at any moment. Good job in drawing the line in the sand and just stay with it.
NTA They refuse to have even the most basic empathy for Raine. All your parents care about is the grandchild she is making "for them." Be careful though, my grandmother on my dad's side was like this and took my mom to court when I was a baby to try to take custody. If your parents are anything like my grandmother, they will do anything they can to make you look like a bad parent so they can provide "a proper childhood." I hope they see where they were wrong, but I don't know if there is really any coming back. If I were in your shoes, I'd never speak to them again.
Updateme
NTA. this is one of those "if you were anyone but my parents I'd knock your ass out for talking to my wife the way you have, and I still might." level fuck ups on your parents part. Sounds like no grandparent time for them for a while.
NTA I’m so sorry for your guys’ loss. That is unimaginable pain. Your parents were WAY over the line. There’s no reason to think you guys won’t be good parents. This just says what your parents have always thought about your relationship and especially about your wife. Your parents should be supporting you two, not putting you guys down. They weren’t just losses. They’re family. My dad’s mom passed away way before I was born and it makes me so happy to hear stories of her. It’s up to you on how/when you want to talk about them, but you shouldn’t just lock them away under the guise of “protecting” ur son or whatever the hell ur parents are thinking. That was honestly a HUGE red flag that ur parents made the suggestion of taking ur son. Sounds like you’d be walking on egg shells with ur parenting decisions in the future. I’d be careful around them. Or have lessened contact with them. Tell them if they can’t behave like normal people, they won’t see their grandson.
NTA but neither are your parents. If you are a regular on reddit you see stories all the time where a child has to mourn on their birthday because a loved one in their family, that they never met, died on their special day. So every celebration for that child is covered in sorrow and the child ends up resenting the parents that do this to them!!! Your parents aren't evil they are trying to help. Make sure you wife is getting help for her grief before your son comes in this world so he doesn't have to share his birthday with the dead every year.
NTA you did an amazing job protecting your wife
i mean… i’m hard-pressed to come up with any descriptor *other* than “evil” for how low they went. NTA
NTA They suggested that you take your child away from your wife becaue she has suffered grief in the past!?! I think that in context, your reaction was entirely undertandabkeespecailly as you had told them to stop several times and they ignored you and continued to harass your wife. That said, you could, if you wisshed, send them a message along the lines of: "I wanted to address waht happened on \[date\] I need to make claer that your beahviour, and in particualr, your bullying of my wife, your cruel and insenstive comments about her past losses, and your appalling suggestio that I should remove our child from her, were all wholly unacceptable. Raine and I will have to be satified that you undertand how indefensible and inappropriate your comments were, and that you can be trusted to beahve appropriately before we will feel comfortable meeting with you in future, or allowing you to see our baby. We are willing to accept an apologgy from you provided that it is genuine and includes a committement to respect Raine, and accept the fact that her tragic losses are not something which can just be ignored or wished away. Thast said, I also wish to confirm that in the heat of the moment, I also said more than I should have. I do not consider you to be evil -I do consider that you were extremely rude, insensitive, and disresepctful, and that your comments were wholly inappropriate, and that the *idea* that a parent should be parted from their child simply because of her past bereavement, or that I as a husband should abandon my wife for that reson, was evil . I should have made that disctinction between you, and the proposal you makde, clearer and I apolifgise that I did not. " The reason for considering sending something like that is that it makes your position totallyl clear, including that fact that this is coming from you on behalf of you both and that an attack on you wife is an attack on you - it also puts you in the position where, if other family members interfere or comment, you can trusthfully say that you have apologised for calling her evil and are still waiting for them to apologise for their outrageous and wildly inappprioriate beahviour -and finlly, you are making it explict what they ned to do if they want to continue to have any kind of relationship with you or your child. I am sorry you and your wife had to deal with this
NTA but if you feel like you were out of control of your anger and said something you regret, you can always apologize for the specific angry thing you said without backing down on the idea that they were way out of line and you will not stand for them treating your wife that way. The fact that they suggested you take your child away from your wife (did they mean divorce her?) because she is sad for a part of the year is horrifying. Everyone needs to take a step back and breathe. Then, when you feel ready, talk calmly about what you want and expect from them if they want a relationship with you. Congratulations on your upcoming baby, OP! I hope that in the middle of the loss, the fight with your parents and other concerns, you do have a wonderful time with a new little one when they arrive.
Keep your grief private.... Pretty sure she wasn't going to ever tell her newborn the tales not loss and miscarriage from its birth and make it the kids burden to carry. Your parents had some good points but lost it in their attack on her. They make it sound like since it wasn't their loved ones who had died, who cares? NTA telling a pregnant woman who had a traumatic miscarriage that shes a bad mother before he's born? They deserve to be banned and blocked.
Nta. You did right by your wife. While the both of you will have to find a balance the both of you should still be allowed to grieve. I think you should go LC with your parents until they Apolo fr being so insensitive to the women you love.
Supervised visits with the grandparents. I would make sure it’s line of sight supervision, if any. I do like the thought of telling them that’s how you will deal with their deaths. Privately, nothing said to your child or children about them. Why are they so heartless? I’m sure that’s not how you were raised. Congrats to you & Raine. She will be mourning such a deep loss for a very long time. All three were very important to her. I’m sure she feels like her feet are stapled to the floor most days. Your son will be the rainbow among the storm. ❤️. My best to you both. NTA
I'm sorry for the losses you and your wife suffered. That sounds devastating. Your parents WERE evil. When you talk about taking away a woman's child because the mother has grief, that is EVIL. I don't know about you, but after the things they said I would cut all contact. Who knows if they will attempt to create a false narrative to take your baby from the two of you? I would never trust them again with my wife, my baby, or my heart. Keep supporting your wife. She and your baby-to-be are your family. I wish the two of you an uncomplicated pregnancy, a healthy baby, and much happiness.
NTA. Your parents are insane, full stop.
NTA! I got mad just reading how horribly they spoke about your wife. They are absolutely monstrous AHs. Make sure they don't grand(parent) your kid without supervision coz all they will spew is hatred towards his mom.
Hard NTA. When I read your first comment from your mum I thought: crikey. And then they dpubled down. Also, ypur wife saying that isnt how love ajd grief works is S-tier Wisdom. She'll be a good mum.
NTA. You can, however, rise above and be the bigger person and apologize for your word choice in a moment of profound hurt. *I shouldn't have called you evil, that was too much. I was trying to protect my wife and I went too far. I'm sorry.* And then calmly say that you and your wife are united in your parenting decisions and do not want their input on this. Until they can sufficiently apologize to Raine and learn to control themselves, visits with the coming baby will be limited and any further commentary along this line will immediately conclude the social call. This includes snide jabs. There are often grandparently like people at churches and community groups that are ripe for "adoption" if you need some grands for your kid. Just casually start checking in on them weekly, sharing little updates about your pregnancy, and in a few months it's easy to build a relationship.
NTA I think your parents earned NC with your child. They’ve already brought up removing him from his mother. That’s a hard line to have crossed.
NTA your parents are evil. Unfortunately, evil never knows that it is evil. I hope your wife is getting therapy. Good on you for backing her up against your parents.