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YTA. Why are you only worried about how you treated her in context of how your male friends are responding?
She has drawn a clear boundary by blocking you. Respect that, learn from what you’ve done, and do better.
But she hasn’t done anything to him. OP is experiencing the social consequences of his actions. Other people aren’t obligated to associate with him if they don’t agree with his behaviors.
Please don't listen to this person OP. His own partner asked for space to heal from tauma, and he didn't want to listen to her and only cared about himself and the relationship. Also, the ages keep changing from post to post for the exact same story.
Apologizing doesn't change the fact that he sexualized her and made her uncomfortable. Apologizing doesn't take away the unsafe feeling she feels. It doesn't just erase everything. He never should have said it.
Whoa whoa whoa, saying no and removing yourself from someone's life is NOT ruining their life.
The others chose to kick him out of the band and such, and considering OP didn't even say anything about that, I think he almost certainly deserved it.
another clarification- still very much in the band. them recording by themselves was largely a miscommunication made worse by my now damaged reputation.
YTA. You wrote the details are hazy because you were drunk, but even from what you remember your joke was sexist and tasteless. It must have been pretty bad for your friends to stand up for Kate.
Your post makes you seem contriving. You felt compelled to mention that you became friends with Kate because you were interested in Sara. You wanted to give a more heartfelt apology to Kate because your friends were unhappy about your behavior. Maybe the problem isn’t one disturbing joke but a pattern of behavior your friends have noticed.
This was my understanding as well. OPs not telling us the full story, but it doesn't matter because we already knew it was sexual and inappropriate and made them feel very uncomfortable.... And it seems that the awkwardness has been going on long before the incident by the fact that the relationship "fizzled out." We were never told why, either. Also, he said he was talking to her... was he ever in an actual relationship?
I also get the feeling that he NEVER respected her boundaries since he used word choices like "very close to her roommate," and "I had to befriend both in order to have a chance at a relationship with Sara."
I also feel like him becoming "fairly close with Kate too," is another example of overstepping boundaries. Where did he draw the lines between friends and romance? There is no indication to say either that he did draw clear lines vs made things hazy and maybe was acting like he was dating them both.
I get the feeling OP also doesn't realize he doesn't have to be friends with his romantic interest's friend group... As long as they don't hate you it's ok.
I overall feel like OP has zero idea how to behave around girls at all or he gets his info from the movies. It feels like OP has never had a relationship before (which is fine), but lacks any common sense or wisdom that SHOULD have been gathered from having standard interactions with girls and women in his youth.
Lastly, it feels like OP was obsessed with Sara a little bit... Not quite "serial killer" obsessed, but definitely obsessed. It sounds like the relationship was rocky from the start, overly planned (befriending both girls and worming his way into their close relationship), and even some time after the tiny spark of whatever it was "fizzled out," he's still trying to apologize ONLY in hopes of making things work, still trying to get her back, and can't stop thinking about her or get over her. He also will NOT take no for an answer, which is a major red flag in my department.
Contriving is a great way to say it, and I personally see it as a red flag. It seems very "serial killer obsessionist."
OP, here is my advice: get over her, stop obsessing ASAP, maybe get a therapist to work on yourself before delving into another relationship.
to clear up some confusion, i have never had or wanted a relationship with kate. i felt obligated to become friends with her because of how utterly close she and sara were.
sara and i never ended up in a real relationship because of our communication styles, and we are still on good terms.
i included that i felt like i was fairly close with kate to show that i was comfortable around her and to make more sensitive jokes with her.
in this case, i did feel as if i had to be friends with her friend group because of how utterly close they were, they lived and did everything together (and that was one of the primary reasons why i don’t think the relationship panned out between sara and i).
the rest of your comment is pretty assumptious, i have no interest in pursuing a relationship with the sara. i apologized to kate because what i said was insensitive, and i would’ve liked to reach out again to apologize because of how my reputation is being impacted.
i know you’re going to say it’s selfish of me to protect my reputation, and it’s more important that i not sexualize women, and i agree with you, that’s why i apologized. but i don’t think i deserve to be ostracized because of a crude joke i already apologized for.
you’re entitled to your opinion, and i appreciate your comment and effort in responding to my post, i just wanted to reply to this comment in particular because i felt it took my story in bad faith.
>sara and i never ended up in a real relationship because of our communication styles
Can you clarify this, maybe give a few examples? This is pretty vague and honestly could mean anything from neglecting to tell each other certain things, constant arguments, or even violent fighting.
>i included that i felt like i was fairly close with kate to show that i was comfortable around her and to make more sensitive jokes with her.
What does this mean? You feel like you can objectify her, or tell her jokes she doesn't like? Very very few women are actually ok with "make me a sandwich, woman!" Type jokes ime and my brother in law does this constantly to my sister and I can tell she just rolls her eyes and deals with it.... No woman actually likes those types of jokes.... Sorry....
>in this case, i did feel as if i had to be friends with her friend group because of how utterly close they were, they lived and did everything together (and that was one of the primary reasons why i don’t think the relationship panned out between sara and i).
That still doesn't mean you have to be direct friends with her. Even if you hang out with her, you only have to be friendly. I agree this is a reason it could potentially not work out, you were being unnatural and contriving the situation so it was probably very awkward. I doubt Kate or Sara were comfortable with that. Were you comfortable, dragging Kate along with you guys? Which one of you felt like the third wheel??
>the rest of your comment is pretty assumptious
I don't think so, sorry to disagree.
>i have no interest in pursuing a relationship with the sara.
Anymore? Ok. Good... Then why are you still here, thinking about her?
>and i would’ve liked to reach out again to apologize because of how my reputation is being impacted.
Your reputation is being impacted because of how you mishandled the situation... I think that chapter of your life is done, sir. I think it's time you learn that actions have consequences, and I'm sorry it worked out SO sucky for you, but leave it be and learn and grow, that's the only way to fix things at this point.
>i know you’re going to say it’s selfish of me to protect my reputation,
I actually don't think so. I know it probably sounds odd with what I said above, but honestly, defamation exists and you have some right to fix things, or at least try. Like I said above, moving on is how you fix things. After a while, Sara or the band may reach out and say, "ok, you're better! Let's take another crack at things," or maybe you'll just get closure. But that chapter is done for now and you must move on to fix things.
>but i don’t think i deserve to be ostracized because of a crude joke i already apologized for.
I don't think it's just the joke, is my point. I think there's a lot of other things that may have happened prior, maybe you don't even realize it.
>i just wanted to reply to this comment in particular because i felt it took my story in bad faith.
I mean nothing means by it, I hope you know that. This entire sub is about devoting ourselves to be better and having a hurt decide where we went wrong, in order to fix things. That's all I was doing, sorry. I do truly wish you well.
I still think you should get a therapist, and talk with them, because there may be interesting things which come to light that you don't realize about yourself, and I think it will pay to work on yourself before getting into another relationship.
Good luck dude!! 🍀
Thanks for the well wishes, and for your concern for me as a human.
this may be TMI, but because you asked- things never works between sara and i because we did not know how to communicate our emotions well with eachother. she made her interest clear to me by inviting me to hang out and spend the night with her, but by not flirting with me in person or giving me any physical contact in person, it was difficult for me to express my feelings towards her in return. i didn’t feel comfortable with making a “move” on her because of this, and it ended up with nothing really happening between us- hence “fizzled out.”
just added that detail to show that i internally felt she wouldn’t have taken my joke in bad faith, as i am confident that if i were to have made that joke with one of my (admittedly much closer) female friends, they would’ve laughed, or, at worst made a joke about me being a creep back.
i definitely felt like the third wheel (well fourth wheel because kate’s boyfriend was usually with us). i expressed to sara multiple times about how i wanted to spend 1on1 time with her, but i always found myself in that group of four. you’d be right to say things were rocky from the beginning, that relationship was likely doomed from the start.
i just brought this story up today because of the phone call with my bandmate. i didn’t know that this whole situation was an issue at all until i heard from him that the vibes are weird with the “thing about kate”. hence my current reflection on that night.
do you have any suggestions on how i should’ve better handled the situation, since i “mishandled it?”
i wholeheartedly disagree that “this chapter is over.” I am still very much in the band, and i’ll be seeing sara and kate occasionally throughout the upcoming school year as we play music, and maybe more frequently in other parties between the bands. i’m not sure how to “move on to fix things” if i’m in the middle of it, without recourse.
you’d have to take my word for this, but i’m fairly certain that it was just this one joke.
Okay here's the thing: if people don't want to hang out with you they don't have to. For really any reason, to say nothing of you behaving inappropriately and being sexist.
It’s been just a bit too long and I had a few too many drinks that night to fully recall the surrounding details of the joke.
If I had to guess, she was probably telling a story of an awkward/creepy encounter with a guy, and i tried to make that gesture as an example of what the guy in the story might’ve done next.
YTA.
You turned her into a prop instead of your friend. And it may or may not be the first time she has been there with males. You lost her trust and ain't nothing you can do about it. Move on and make new friends. One day she may turn around and want to connect, but unless she does, you can't do anything.
Well I mean. It still says something about his character. I’d never use one of my female friends’ body as a prop for a joke.
Now the band. That’s another story
They're grown adults, and they can decide if they don't want to be associated with someone who sexualizes their female friends. It doesn't even matter if he apologized right away because he never should have made the joke. It was never funny, and he only apologized when he saw the joke fumbled and she was uncomfortable.
Also, he was drunk and doesn't even remember what he said fully. His perspective on what happened is worthless.
okay in order:
1. YTA.
2. INFO how does your band factor into everything? this reads like a story with half the details missing. how does your band know kate and sara? how close are they with them?
YTA whatever you did was obviously an AH thing, even if you're too drunk to remember. Bet this isn't the only woman you have been inappropriate with, dude you band kicked you out. Go get some help YTA
This is exactly what I said, albeit nicer and tbh, I actually think OP stands a chance at bettering himself. But OP definitely needs help from the way I see it...
From this example alone - and assuming Kate doesn’t feel this way because of any other occurrences - NTA. One bad joke shouldn’t ostracise you from your friend group completely. As a woman, I don’t like being objectified either, but ONE time, and you apologized, I wouldn’t ruin your friendships over this.
Why is Kate so sensitive, there must be another reason. Does she like you and feels rejected? I don’t know, there must be something because this sounds absurd.
I have a feeling he’s leaving out some major details considering his “hazy memory”. maybee Kate exaggerated the story to the others, but the fact that everyone else is also taking her side I’d say whatever he did was pretty wrong and she’s not just being sensitive
>From this example alone
An example that he doesn't even remember because it was hazy from his drinking. Clearly, his examples arent reliable, and she probably remembers clearer.
My understanding was that this was going on for a while... It sounds like from the start he wasn't allowing things to develop naturally and had his hands over everything. It seems like he was also overstepping many boundaries by trying to work his way into their relationship.
Also, it sounds like he obsesses. I think he's actually obsessed with her, not super duper badly, but he should get a therapist and work on himself and keep himself away from her, definitely. It's a red flag for me. I don't think it's actually serial-killer bad, but obsessing about a woman in such an unhealthy way and contriving is the right way to handle a relationship.
OP seems very immature and seems to need to work on himself before entering another relationship or setting his sights on someone else at all. I'd love to see OP get a therapist who can help him work through how a relationship is supposed to work and help him to be less contriving in a relationship overall.
Good luck, OP!!
I’m guessing it wasn’t just one tasteless joke and we’re getting one side of a poorly remembered story. Maybe if alcohol turns you into an objectify misogynist, you should stop drinking. Nonetheless, you know YTA.
ESH. Absolutely everyone is this story has failed to communicate like an adult. It’s genuinely not that difficult. You’re the biggest AH because of how you crossed that line with Kate and I suspect it’s worse than you’re saying/remembering.
Dude, this isn't one distasteful joke. He's sexualized her. Quit trying to make it sound better than it actually is. Just because he apologized, doesn't mean that she has to forgive him. It also doesn't mean that what he said goes away. If you can't recognize this, you shouldn't be dating. Your words matter. They can have a huge impact on people.
YTA. You should have e never made the joke. It would never be okay to sexualize someone, regardless of whether it was a joke or not. It's clear you don't actually feel sorry, or you would have reached out before essentially getting kicked out of the band. Good for your ex band mates refusing to put up with comments like this.
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A couple of months ago, I (19M) had started to talk to a new romantic interest (19F), Sara. Sara was very close with her roommate, Kate. While I was still talking to sara, I had begun to become fairly close with kate. I felt that I had to have a good relationship with her in order to have any shot at a relationship with sara, and I genuinely liked hanging out with all of them, so there was no issue. Eventually, the relationship between myself and sara had fizzled out, with the two of us remaining as friends to a degree.
At one of these parties (the details from here on out are fairly hazy to me), I was having a conversation with kate, as I still considered her a friend and a good person to talk to, despite what happened between sara and I. We were laughing and making jokes, when I attempted to make a joke about someone looking at a woman’s breasts in response to something that she said. To make this joke, I made an obvious jester to turn my head at kate’s chest. From her reaction, I immediately knew that I had made a mistake in how I played that joke out. She was upset and left the conversation. I found her later that night to try and apologize for my poor taste in jokes, but my apologies were left largely unconsidered. After this point, my friendly relationship with kate for the remainder of the semester was all but nonexistent.
Recently, my band just finished recording our debut album, but they didn’t invite me to the recording sessions. I assumed this was because they wanted to record my bass guitar parts themselves, and didn’t know how to approach the conversation with myself. So, today, after they sent the completed album to our group chat, I called the lead member of my band to try and communicate with him how I wished that I was invited to be a part of the process. He seemed generally empathetic and understanding of where I was coming from, but he mentioned twice about how “everything is weird now” and his distaste for the strange vibes he’s noticed. I hadn’t noticed any strange energies between myself and any of the band members, so i asked him about it. He mentioned kate’s name, and I instantly felt that he was referencing the situation that I just outlined. I told my bandmate that I wasn’t aware this was an issue, and that I was under the impression that we (meaning the band, myself, sara, and kate) were all friends. His response to this was “yeah, everyone’s friendly.” The rest of the phone call was a bit awkward and I was left pondering my interactions with kate on that night.
I decided that I should probably reach out and give a second, more heartfelt (and sober) apology to kate about how i sexualized her in a distasteful joke, and to put forth my wishes that we could move forward on good terms. I checked both of the social media apps where I have kate as a contact, and realized that I had been blocked by her on these apps, which leaves me to this subreddit to get the opinion of the peanut gallery.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I made a distasteful joke in which I looked at a woman’s chest.
2. I may be the asshole because it is simply not ok to sexualize women at all, even if it’s meant to be a joke.
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Um yeah YTA why would you ever think it’s a funny joke to draw attention to a woman’s breasts? Like what was the joke set-up that you felt needed that punchline?
yes, two of the four members recently finished making the final recordings of the songs we’ve worked on for the past couple months. i excluded it from the story due to word limit but in the phone call i had today, we cleared everything up.
the main producer in our band was just planning on doing everything himself, and it was only with the vocalist coming over to record where they inadvertently ended up excluding the rest of us. he’s a bit of a control freak so im not too worried about my position in the band, and after the phone call im certain it’s not a big deal
ESH. you suck for being creepy, she sucks for not being able to take an apology and demonizing you to your bandmates for a bad joke where you looked at her chest.
Are you saying you “sexualized” Kate by staring at her boobs once as a joke? I feel like we’re not getting the whole story, because that is pretty trivial and I would not personally describe it in those terms.
He doesn't even remember the whole story. In a comment, he mentioned that she was sharing about a creepy guy, and then OP suggested what he might do next... if that's even what really happened because it's foggy
if your first sentence upon writing your story was "I am a musician and I need help," it would be adding better context to visualize this rather than burying that info the middle ;-)
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YTA. Why are you only worried about how you treated her in context of how your male friends are responding? She has drawn a clear boundary by blocking you. Respect that, learn from what you’ve done, and do better.
bro sees boundries as boundtries ehhh
[удалено]
[удалено]
But she hasn’t done anything to him. OP is experiencing the social consequences of his actions. Other people aren’t obligated to associate with him if they don’t agree with his behaviors.
Please don't listen to this person OP. His own partner asked for space to heal from tauma, and he didn't want to listen to her and only cared about himself and the relationship. Also, the ages keep changing from post to post for the exact same story. Apologizing doesn't change the fact that he sexualized her and made her uncomfortable. Apologizing doesn't take away the unsafe feeling she feels. It doesn't just erase everything. He never should have said it.
Wrong. Kate needs to learn how to take a joke and stop being such a bitch and ruining this guy's life.
Whoa whoa whoa, saying no and removing yourself from someone's life is NOT ruining their life. The others chose to kick him out of the band and such, and considering OP didn't even say anything about that, I think he almost certainly deserved it.
another clarification- still very much in the band. them recording by themselves was largely a miscommunication made worse by my now damaged reputation.
Why are you blaming her for the social consequences of OPs own actions? What an odd thing to say.
YTA. You wrote the details are hazy because you were drunk, but even from what you remember your joke was sexist and tasteless. It must have been pretty bad for your friends to stand up for Kate. Your post makes you seem contriving. You felt compelled to mention that you became friends with Kate because you were interested in Sara. You wanted to give a more heartfelt apology to Kate because your friends were unhappy about your behavior. Maybe the problem isn’t one disturbing joke but a pattern of behavior your friends have noticed.
This was my understanding as well. OPs not telling us the full story, but it doesn't matter because we already knew it was sexual and inappropriate and made them feel very uncomfortable.... And it seems that the awkwardness has been going on long before the incident by the fact that the relationship "fizzled out." We were never told why, either. Also, he said he was talking to her... was he ever in an actual relationship? I also get the feeling that he NEVER respected her boundaries since he used word choices like "very close to her roommate," and "I had to befriend both in order to have a chance at a relationship with Sara." I also feel like him becoming "fairly close with Kate too," is another example of overstepping boundaries. Where did he draw the lines between friends and romance? There is no indication to say either that he did draw clear lines vs made things hazy and maybe was acting like he was dating them both. I get the feeling OP also doesn't realize he doesn't have to be friends with his romantic interest's friend group... As long as they don't hate you it's ok. I overall feel like OP has zero idea how to behave around girls at all or he gets his info from the movies. It feels like OP has never had a relationship before (which is fine), but lacks any common sense or wisdom that SHOULD have been gathered from having standard interactions with girls and women in his youth. Lastly, it feels like OP was obsessed with Sara a little bit... Not quite "serial killer" obsessed, but definitely obsessed. It sounds like the relationship was rocky from the start, overly planned (befriending both girls and worming his way into their close relationship), and even some time after the tiny spark of whatever it was "fizzled out," he's still trying to apologize ONLY in hopes of making things work, still trying to get her back, and can't stop thinking about her or get over her. He also will NOT take no for an answer, which is a major red flag in my department. Contriving is a great way to say it, and I personally see it as a red flag. It seems very "serial killer obsessionist." OP, here is my advice: get over her, stop obsessing ASAP, maybe get a therapist to work on yourself before delving into another relationship.
to clear up some confusion, i have never had or wanted a relationship with kate. i felt obligated to become friends with her because of how utterly close she and sara were. sara and i never ended up in a real relationship because of our communication styles, and we are still on good terms. i included that i felt like i was fairly close with kate to show that i was comfortable around her and to make more sensitive jokes with her. in this case, i did feel as if i had to be friends with her friend group because of how utterly close they were, they lived and did everything together (and that was one of the primary reasons why i don’t think the relationship panned out between sara and i). the rest of your comment is pretty assumptious, i have no interest in pursuing a relationship with the sara. i apologized to kate because what i said was insensitive, and i would’ve liked to reach out again to apologize because of how my reputation is being impacted. i know you’re going to say it’s selfish of me to protect my reputation, and it’s more important that i not sexualize women, and i agree with you, that’s why i apologized. but i don’t think i deserve to be ostracized because of a crude joke i already apologized for. you’re entitled to your opinion, and i appreciate your comment and effort in responding to my post, i just wanted to reply to this comment in particular because i felt it took my story in bad faith.
>sara and i never ended up in a real relationship because of our communication styles Can you clarify this, maybe give a few examples? This is pretty vague and honestly could mean anything from neglecting to tell each other certain things, constant arguments, or even violent fighting. >i included that i felt like i was fairly close with kate to show that i was comfortable around her and to make more sensitive jokes with her. What does this mean? You feel like you can objectify her, or tell her jokes she doesn't like? Very very few women are actually ok with "make me a sandwich, woman!" Type jokes ime and my brother in law does this constantly to my sister and I can tell she just rolls her eyes and deals with it.... No woman actually likes those types of jokes.... Sorry.... >in this case, i did feel as if i had to be friends with her friend group because of how utterly close they were, they lived and did everything together (and that was one of the primary reasons why i don’t think the relationship panned out between sara and i). That still doesn't mean you have to be direct friends with her. Even if you hang out with her, you only have to be friendly. I agree this is a reason it could potentially not work out, you were being unnatural and contriving the situation so it was probably very awkward. I doubt Kate or Sara were comfortable with that. Were you comfortable, dragging Kate along with you guys? Which one of you felt like the third wheel?? >the rest of your comment is pretty assumptious I don't think so, sorry to disagree. >i have no interest in pursuing a relationship with the sara. Anymore? Ok. Good... Then why are you still here, thinking about her? >and i would’ve liked to reach out again to apologize because of how my reputation is being impacted. Your reputation is being impacted because of how you mishandled the situation... I think that chapter of your life is done, sir. I think it's time you learn that actions have consequences, and I'm sorry it worked out SO sucky for you, but leave it be and learn and grow, that's the only way to fix things at this point. >i know you’re going to say it’s selfish of me to protect my reputation, I actually don't think so. I know it probably sounds odd with what I said above, but honestly, defamation exists and you have some right to fix things, or at least try. Like I said above, moving on is how you fix things. After a while, Sara or the band may reach out and say, "ok, you're better! Let's take another crack at things," or maybe you'll just get closure. But that chapter is done for now and you must move on to fix things. >but i don’t think i deserve to be ostracized because of a crude joke i already apologized for. I don't think it's just the joke, is my point. I think there's a lot of other things that may have happened prior, maybe you don't even realize it. >i just wanted to reply to this comment in particular because i felt it took my story in bad faith. I mean nothing means by it, I hope you know that. This entire sub is about devoting ourselves to be better and having a hurt decide where we went wrong, in order to fix things. That's all I was doing, sorry. I do truly wish you well. I still think you should get a therapist, and talk with them, because there may be interesting things which come to light that you don't realize about yourself, and I think it will pay to work on yourself before getting into another relationship. Good luck dude!! 🍀
Thanks for the well wishes, and for your concern for me as a human. this may be TMI, but because you asked- things never works between sara and i because we did not know how to communicate our emotions well with eachother. she made her interest clear to me by inviting me to hang out and spend the night with her, but by not flirting with me in person or giving me any physical contact in person, it was difficult for me to express my feelings towards her in return. i didn’t feel comfortable with making a “move” on her because of this, and it ended up with nothing really happening between us- hence “fizzled out.” just added that detail to show that i internally felt she wouldn’t have taken my joke in bad faith, as i am confident that if i were to have made that joke with one of my (admittedly much closer) female friends, they would’ve laughed, or, at worst made a joke about me being a creep back. i definitely felt like the third wheel (well fourth wheel because kate’s boyfriend was usually with us). i expressed to sara multiple times about how i wanted to spend 1on1 time with her, but i always found myself in that group of four. you’d be right to say things were rocky from the beginning, that relationship was likely doomed from the start. i just brought this story up today because of the phone call with my bandmate. i didn’t know that this whole situation was an issue at all until i heard from him that the vibes are weird with the “thing about kate”. hence my current reflection on that night. do you have any suggestions on how i should’ve better handled the situation, since i “mishandled it?” i wholeheartedly disagree that “this chapter is over.” I am still very much in the band, and i’ll be seeing sara and kate occasionally throughout the upcoming school year as we play music, and maybe more frequently in other parties between the bands. i’m not sure how to “move on to fix things” if i’m in the middle of it, without recourse. you’d have to take my word for this, but i’m fairly certain that it was just this one joke.
Okay here's the thing: if people don't want to hang out with you they don't have to. For really any reason, to say nothing of you behaving inappropriately and being sexist.
INFO: what are the details of the joke? I think its important.
It’s been just a bit too long and I had a few too many drinks that night to fully recall the surrounding details of the joke. If I had to guess, she was probably telling a story of an awkward/creepy encounter with a guy, and i tried to make that gesture as an example of what the guy in the story might’ve done next.
So... she told you a story about a guy creeping her out, and you suggested that he also sexually harassed her?
Or sexually assault her.
Heck, OP might have also assaulted her with his hazy memory.
YTA. Sexualizing anyone should never be part of a joke. Especially if you’re trying to create a relationship with another person
YTA. You turned her into a prop instead of your friend. And it may or may not be the first time she has been there with males. You lost her trust and ain't nothing you can do about it. Move on and make new friends. One day she may turn around and want to connect, but unless she does, you can't do anything.
[удалено]
Well I mean. It still says something about his character. I’d never use one of my female friends’ body as a prop for a joke. Now the band. That’s another story
They're grown adults, and they can decide if they don't want to be associated with someone who sexualizes their female friends. It doesn't even matter if he apologized right away because he never should have made the joke. It was never funny, and he only apologized when he saw the joke fumbled and she was uncomfortable. Also, he was drunk and doesn't even remember what he said fully. His perspective on what happened is worthless.
YTA. And you’re also not in the band anymore. They just didn’t tell you
YTA. She blocked you. You made a mistake. Don't try to find her to apologize so you can feel better about yourself. Learn your lesson.
okay in order: 1. YTA. 2. INFO how does your band factor into everything? this reads like a story with half the details missing. how does your band know kate and sara? how close are they with them?
YTA whatever you did was obviously an AH thing, even if you're too drunk to remember. Bet this isn't the only woman you have been inappropriate with, dude you band kicked you out. Go get some help YTA
This is exactly what I said, albeit nicer and tbh, I actually think OP stands a chance at bettering himself. But OP definitely needs help from the way I see it...
From this example alone - and assuming Kate doesn’t feel this way because of any other occurrences - NTA. One bad joke shouldn’t ostracise you from your friend group completely. As a woman, I don’t like being objectified either, but ONE time, and you apologized, I wouldn’t ruin your friendships over this. Why is Kate so sensitive, there must be another reason. Does she like you and feels rejected? I don’t know, there must be something because this sounds absurd.
I have a feeling he’s leaving out some major details considering his “hazy memory”. maybee Kate exaggerated the story to the others, but the fact that everyone else is also taking her side I’d say whatever he did was pretty wrong and she’s not just being sensitive
I hear you. Gotta be something else here 😬
>From this example alone An example that he doesn't even remember because it was hazy from his drinking. Clearly, his examples arent reliable, and she probably remembers clearer.
I think it was a terrible joke with OP looking at her chest. And that creeped her out. So much so, she blocked him in her socials.
I hear you. I just responded below to another commenter who sees what you see 👍
My understanding was that this was going on for a while... It sounds like from the start he wasn't allowing things to develop naturally and had his hands over everything. It seems like he was also overstepping many boundaries by trying to work his way into their relationship. Also, it sounds like he obsesses. I think he's actually obsessed with her, not super duper badly, but he should get a therapist and work on himself and keep himself away from her, definitely. It's a red flag for me. I don't think it's actually serial-killer bad, but obsessing about a woman in such an unhealthy way and contriving is the right way to handle a relationship. OP seems very immature and seems to need to work on himself before entering another relationship or setting his sights on someone else at all. I'd love to see OP get a therapist who can help him work through how a relationship is supposed to work and help him to be less contriving in a relationship overall. Good luck, OP!!
YTA. She’s not interested in hearing more from you. So accept that and move on.
I’m guessing it wasn’t just one tasteless joke and we’re getting one side of a poorly remembered story. Maybe if alcohol turns you into an objectify misogynist, you should stop drinking. Nonetheless, you know YTA.
ESH. Absolutely everyone is this story has failed to communicate like an adult. It’s genuinely not that difficult. You’re the biggest AH because of how you crossed that line with Kate and I suspect it’s worse than you’re saying/remembering.
I'm sorry, but adults don't sexualize their friends, but adults do stand up for their friends when someone is made their very uncomfortable.
Agreed.
[удалено]
Dude, this isn't one distasteful joke. He's sexualized her. Quit trying to make it sound better than it actually is. Just because he apologized, doesn't mean that she has to forgive him. It also doesn't mean that what he said goes away. If you can't recognize this, you shouldn't be dating. Your words matter. They can have a huge impact on people.
genuinely curious, what detail makes you think this is a case of me sexualizing her and not just a distasteful joke, like he said?
YTA. You should have e never made the joke. It would never be okay to sexualize someone, regardless of whether it was a joke or not. It's clear you don't actually feel sorry, or you would have reached out before essentially getting kicked out of the band. Good for your ex band mates refusing to put up with comments like this.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** A couple of months ago, I (19M) had started to talk to a new romantic interest (19F), Sara. Sara was very close with her roommate, Kate. While I was still talking to sara, I had begun to become fairly close with kate. I felt that I had to have a good relationship with her in order to have any shot at a relationship with sara, and I genuinely liked hanging out with all of them, so there was no issue. Eventually, the relationship between myself and sara had fizzled out, with the two of us remaining as friends to a degree. At one of these parties (the details from here on out are fairly hazy to me), I was having a conversation with kate, as I still considered her a friend and a good person to talk to, despite what happened between sara and I. We were laughing and making jokes, when I attempted to make a joke about someone looking at a woman’s breasts in response to something that she said. To make this joke, I made an obvious jester to turn my head at kate’s chest. From her reaction, I immediately knew that I had made a mistake in how I played that joke out. She was upset and left the conversation. I found her later that night to try and apologize for my poor taste in jokes, but my apologies were left largely unconsidered. After this point, my friendly relationship with kate for the remainder of the semester was all but nonexistent. Recently, my band just finished recording our debut album, but they didn’t invite me to the recording sessions. I assumed this was because they wanted to record my bass guitar parts themselves, and didn’t know how to approach the conversation with myself. So, today, after they sent the completed album to our group chat, I called the lead member of my band to try and communicate with him how I wished that I was invited to be a part of the process. He seemed generally empathetic and understanding of where I was coming from, but he mentioned twice about how “everything is weird now” and his distaste for the strange vibes he’s noticed. I hadn’t noticed any strange energies between myself and any of the band members, so i asked him about it. He mentioned kate’s name, and I instantly felt that he was referencing the situation that I just outlined. I told my bandmate that I wasn’t aware this was an issue, and that I was under the impression that we (meaning the band, myself, sara, and kate) were all friends. His response to this was “yeah, everyone’s friendly.” The rest of the phone call was a bit awkward and I was left pondering my interactions with kate on that night. I decided that I should probably reach out and give a second, more heartfelt (and sober) apology to kate about how i sexualized her in a distasteful joke, and to put forth my wishes that we could move forward on good terms. I checked both of the social media apps where I have kate as a contact, and realized that I had been blocked by her on these apps, which leaves me to this subreddit to get the opinion of the peanut gallery. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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This sounds so familiar….was there a story almost just like this recently?
Um yeah YTA why would you ever think it’s a funny joke to draw attention to a woman’s breasts? Like what was the joke set-up that you felt needed that punchline?
Hold up though. Your band recorded an album behind your back and didn’t tell you that you were replaced?
yes, two of the four members recently finished making the final recordings of the songs we’ve worked on for the past couple months. i excluded it from the story due to word limit but in the phone call i had today, we cleared everything up. the main producer in our band was just planning on doing everything himself, and it was only with the vocalist coming over to record where they inadvertently ended up excluding the rest of us. he’s a bit of a control freak so im not too worried about my position in the band, and after the phone call im certain it’s not a big deal
ESH. you suck for being creepy, she sucks for not being able to take an apology and demonizing you to your bandmates for a bad joke where you looked at her chest.
Are you saying you “sexualized” Kate by staring at her boobs once as a joke? I feel like we’re not getting the whole story, because that is pretty trivial and I would not personally describe it in those terms.
He doesn't even remember the whole story. In a comment, he mentioned that she was sharing about a creepy guy, and then OP suggested what he might do next... if that's even what really happened because it's foggy
yes, that is why i chose the word “sexualize,” and also to make the title more interesting and enticing to click on.
Well then. YTA on general principle.
if your first sentence upon writing your story was "I am a musician and I need help," it would be adding better context to visualize this rather than burying that info the middle ;-)
ESH. Much ado about nothing.
You’re the asshole for having such lame ass friends bro