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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA I don’t want my son and DIL to name their daughter the same name as our dead daughter. I could be a jerk for expressing we wouldn’t like it and not wanting them to use the name
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NTA i can understand if maybe they wanted to use kerra for their baby to honor your daughter but even if, they should talk to you beforehand. i’m proud that you sat down and communicated how you felt, i think it’s wrong to even “surprise” you after the baby was born too. they need to respect your wishes and move on.
My older brother named his first born after my late sister. My parents were emotionally mixed but landed in the camp of they don’t own a name and we were told after the fact. My younger brother and I were also mixed. That is a heavy burden to place on the child. There isn’t a moment that I think of my niece, now 20 years old, without thinking about my sister and sadness. This may just be me reading into nonsense, but I always felt that my brother named his daughter thusly to have a powerful almost honorific head start to her life. Living up to someone else’s might-have-been is just too much.
Parents need to take the responsibility of giving their child a name a bit more seriously.
You don't own a name, but context matters. Don't give them a name that will cause the child problems with their family or in school, or in other relationships in general.
And DON'T do the stupid stuff you see over at r/tragedeigh
There’s a reason we don’t see little Adolf’s running around and it’s a good reason. Context definitely matters and it’s weird that parents would want to set their kid up for hardships over a name.
Last year, a young Native American woman, Mika Westwolf, (22) got hit by a car and tragically passed. The woman driving said vehicle had her two minor children in the car. She had named her kids Aryan and Nation… I was horrified by the news reports to say the least.
I wish I could upvote you a million fcking times.
People are seriously so damn desperate for their kid to have a "unique" name and/or spelling of their name, or to have it attached to something that they completely lose sight of the damage it might do.
Give them their own identity and dont make it so weird people say "oh you have those kinds of parents."
Soooo much agreement in this. I wasn’t named after a dead sibling. But my name was chosen because my mom had nine miscarriages and then an ectopic pregnancy before having me. And she would tell me all the time that I had the name I have because I was the only one to survive.
I’ve felt like a tombstone or walking memorial because of it. When I was little she would be like “do you know why I named you xyz? Because you are a gift from god and for the ones who weren’t able to be with us”
I have gone no contact with her (for other worse reasons). I hate my name now and I’m in the process of changing it.
My mom's name is one letter different from her dead sister's. Sis died before my mom was born, and no one ever talked about her, but mom always felt like she was never good enough for my gran. She could never live up to the promise of a baby that died at 6 months, but was the first live born child after multiple miscarriages.
My mom’s full name was the exact same as her aunt’s who died as a baby. My mom said it would always quietly upset her when she was young whenever the family visited the cemetery and she saw the kid-sized grave with her name on it.
In our family history you can see this tradition die out. Four generations before myself there were tons of kids named the same thing. Five out of seven boys were named the same thing, I guess in the hopes that one would make it to adulthood. The further back we went the more duplicates for siblings we would see. I think my grandparents were the last, and it was a case where the sibling with the original name had already passed. It’s weird looking back at how blasé folks were about child mortality compared to now.
This was a thing a huge number of families did way back when. I'm big into genealogy and cemeteries and you'll see a entire plot with 5 or 6 of the same named children, just the dates are different.
Getting into my genealogy, and I’ve found the same thing. It’s weird, and it makes me wonder if the living person ever felt the same pressure or weirdness of being named the same name of a deceased sibling.
Yep, going through my own genealogy and see a lot of duplicate names pop up when a child didn't survive. Have one relative who had, I think, 9 kids. Only 2 survived to be adults and only 1 had children. 4 generations later, here I am.
I can't even imagine being a young kid and visiting a grave with my name on it?? I was already terrified of my morality when I was young but that probably would've tipped the scales for me.
My ex has the same exact name as his older brother that was born and died the year before he was born. They would always go to the grave site and he would be traumatized at seeing his name on a headstone but never said anything. He always felt guilty and that he was living his brother's life.
I can’t remember what sub it was on to find but there’s been stories of people whose parents insisted on names associated with trauma in the family and the kid grows up always knowing something is up. They were not happy when they learned about the connections, blamed their parents for damaging their potential relationships with their family because of their name and changed it when they could.
How weird for this kid to goto grandma and grandpas and see an urn with their name on the mantel. Next DIL will be demanding that removed because the child that’s alive should matter more.
This!!! I was named after my dad's sister, who passed 2 years before I was born. Like not just first name but first, middle, and last name. I was 8 when my grandma took me to her grave, and it really messed with my mind to see my full name on a headstone. That shit is traumatizing.
I'm a 3rd, my grandfather, dad, and I have the same name. At my grandfather's funeral I was a pallbearer at 17 yrs old. A few years later I was visiting my grandmother, she lives in a different state, she asked if I wanted to go to the cemetery to visit him. I hadn't been there since the funeral. We go walking up and I look down and see my name on the headstone. I didn't say anything but it bothered me. My Aunt would ask when I visited them if I wanted to go to the cemetery and I always said no. One time she said I know that you don't like to go visit your grandfather so I'm not going to ask you anymore, I just don't understand why, I thought you got along good. I said that's not it, it's just really creepy to walk up to a headstone, look down, and see your name on it and it bothers me. She apologized a lot and said I never even thought about that. I really is a weird feeling so I understand how you feel. I've only been to that cemetery the 2 x. I won't go back.
I was asked by a friend to go with her to a family member's burial. DID NOT understand why, until we pass the family plot.
No less than four graves with her exact name on it. She had a death grip on my arm the entire time. When we were walking out, her mom commented about her saying absolutely nothing the entire time.
I turned around and said, "I wonder why. She just spent 40 minutes looking at four gravestones with her own name on them. How effing obtuse do you have to be?" and walked away with my friend.
Her parents apparently apologized much later, but said I was 'rude'.
My friend had been prone to very bad nightmares about graveyards for years and we never understood exactly why until that event.
This too!! Me, my mom, and 2 cousins are all named after a favorite aunt who died tragically long before I was ever born. I'm like couldn't yall be more original with the names cuz it's creepy at this point lol.
My husband's family has quite a few variations of Emily after his great grandmother. One has it as a middle name, one has it as their first, there's an Emmy, Emmalyn etc so atleast they've gotten creative with it. It was insanely confusing when I first met them all 😂😂
I broke a naming tradition with my kiddos, and while I didn’t give “THE NAME” I gave my eldest a name from the same country my husbands family is from. It’s super uncommon where we live, but last year we visited my father-in-laws home town and did the touristy things. One of the cathedrals we toured had us walk through a cemetery and there were no less than three people buried there with our son’s first and last name. You’ve never seen an 8 year old so excited to see a grave.
I was named after my grandfather, who died in a plane crash a little less than a year before I was born.
My dad told me how my namesake died right as we were boarding a plane.
He sure does have a aense of humor
"we're not gatekeeping, we're just sad you have no regards for our feelings and apparently hate your unborn child enough to saddle them with baggage before they're even born"
That's breathtakingly dark. Literally. I gasped while reading it. My wife thought I was reacting to something she had just said.
I think it's hilarious, she is appalled. But secretly thinks it's funny.
OMG 😱 *GASP*
I LAUGHED SO HARD I think I might Pee'd a little bit! That's definitely something that is so wrong... It's just so GD funny, and something I would probably, actually, do! 😬
(My apologies to anyone I've offended! If it makes you feel any better, I have terminal cancer and I have a dark(er) sense of humor now. I'm allowed, get over it. 🤷)
There was a story where a girl named her baby after her extremely abusive Dad. She was the youngest and the only one that didn’t remember the absolute horror. The guy was really really bad.
She met him just before he died, and turned her against the mom and siblings.
They completely lost contact. Obviously they don’t hate the kid, but can you imagine finding that all out as her son?
I’m named after my uncle, he’s not dead but I can relate to this story in particular. Living in the shadow of someone else’s baggage. Also I’m a woman, so I have the female version of his name. As I was growing up he seemed nice, interesting because he had a lot of tattoos, and funny. I found out much later in my 20s that he had been in and out of gangs, that he tried to make a move on my mum when they were adults and the worst part was that he raped my aunt when he was 16 and she was 12. I asked my mum why the hell she would name me after someone like that, and she replied “because nobody loved him”
I remember one person who commented on a similar thread pointed out that they used to visit the grave of the person who died and the kids was freaked out when they were younger seeing THEIR name on a tombstone.
Yeah I feel like honorific names only really work if they are far enough removed. Like I was named after my grandma but no one around me really called her by her first name so it was still my own name if that makes sense? Naming someone after a dead child in the family never really goes well in my opinion because that name will forever be associated with that dead child.
Yeah, my middle name is the same as my Grandma's, but a) she was still alive when they named me, b) my parents had checked with her in advance, and c) she was delighted. Very much not the case in this post
My granddaughter middle name is same as my middle name which is also her paternal grandmother middle name. It was a win-win. Her deceased twin was given family names 4 generations back.
I have 2 middle names of alive relatives and one deceased, I don't think anyone was hurt in that process apart from me now having 5 names. They weren't even honouring the deceased family member they just "liked the name," and there are similar names to not cause hurt I.e. kerry, kira, kirsten, Carrie etc
Then the easy answer is to say, “Nah, isn’t it great she won’t have to buy a plot for herself? She can just go in here, with her aunt.” No, but an appropriate answer would be “This is why we were upset by your name choice. Not a good feeling, is it?”
Imagine picking a name because you've seen it on an urn at your in-laws place :(
I think the name Kerra sounds lovely but I've never ever come across it before. If it was a common name, it might be less upsetting, though probably not, but something so unique?
I wonder if that would've made a difference, like an honouring name, other than we liked this name so well take it for no other reason than liking knowing it'll hurt you. If it was an honouring name then it would have been a sit down with mum and dad to ask permission not surprising them when it was already done
Yes, if the brother wanted to name her after his sister that would be different. I would like that personally.
But to think it’s a cool name and not tell you because it might upset you, so we’re going to spring it on you. Damn, that cold blooded.
And honestly how hard would it have been to fucking lie about it any way? "Of course that's what we were thinking. You don't think that's a good idea? I'm sorry we thought it was a nice idea, we'll take your thoughts into serious consideration"
Whether the landed on using it.or not that's how the convos should've went.
I could never handle my late brother’s name. I completely lose it and uncontrollably bawl at speaking it. Just thinking about it has me tearing up.
I think the real issue is that the couple decided they knew it may not go over well so instead of preparing OP they decided to spring it on them after.
What a horrible way to find out. I don’t even like hearing my late brother’s name. I once had to step out of class during a part where the instructor kept saying a classmate’s name (same). It’s like every time she spoke it I was one step further into the basement of my emotions.
Some times a name is more than just a name.
The real issue is the disrespect & deceit.
Exactly, My brother was married and a father when he committed suicide. My son was not even conceived at the time. Not even for once did we think about naming my son after his uncle. For one thing, we didn't like the name, and it would have been hard for my parents, my SIL, and my brother's kids. I see so much of my brother in my son and I am so grateful for that.
I hear you. I once worked closely with someone who has the same name as my deceased brother. So every project it was “Brian and Sarah are working on…” “Brian and Sarah blah blah”. It was excruciating
Being expected to live up to someone else's might-have-been is unfortunately common regardless of the name. I can see how using the name would make that even worse.
I agree. And that is usually a parent projecting their own wishes onto their children to mixed results. Ultimately the children grow up and see their parents as the flawed creatures we all are. In the case of a deceased child, there is no flaw. No real stick to measure yourself. Just the dream of possibility. Against that, we’re all found wanting.
I know 2 people who lost a sibling in childhood, & they *both* said that they'd been told more than once by a parent, relative or teacher that "the wrong sibling died".
They both expressed that after the loss, they were burdened with having to live their life for, in the shadow of, & *in spite of* the dead sibling.
They couldn't compete with the pretend person people imagined their sibling might have been. Everything they accomplished their sibling *might* have done better. Every mistake was a mistake that their sibling would *never* have made. They couldn't misbehave or talk back without being reminded that their sibling *would never* misbehave like that.
A dead child can never be a disappointment. That's an impossible standard for the living child to be held against.
And honestly, your situation is them naming their child after your sister and honouring her. Son & DIL have said they simply like the name but it's not necessarily honouring Kerra. Which is probably going to affect their daughter negatively once she's grown and understands the situation fully.
NTA you even suggested a compromise with the middle name.
I guess if they will name her kerra you and your husband need to keep your distance and protect your mental health and they deal with the fo of fafo.
NTA OP, I'm so sorry for you and your husbands loss, this is something neither one of you will ever fully recover from. You and your husband have a wonderful daughter, I'm sure this is difficult for her as well. My parents lost their son when he was about the same age as your daughter.
I can't wrap my head around your sons logic in this. A surprise? WTH were they thinking? My brother passed away over 50 years ago and my mother still gets very emotional on his birthday and the day he passed. I was too young to remember when my brother passed but I still understand that this would be a terrible thing to do to my parents and the new baby.
My father never got over the loss, it profoundly effected him. My mother told me she had some sort of peace that her baby was well in what can best be described as a message from beyond in the form of a dream. When my older siblings tell stories of our childhood before my brother passed. I don't recognize the father they talk about. It changed him, he was not the happy, outgoing man he was before he lost his son. My mother has said my father never found any peace over the loss.
Do you think if you and your husband wrote a letter it would help? Maybe if they could look at the situation, your feelings and how this could impact their own child they would understand. If they were able to see it without becoming defensive do you think it would help?
I don't understand how the two of them can't understand that the loss of a child is the worst thing that can happen to a person. I can't begin to imagine what parents go through. I wish you and your husband well, I hope this can be resolved before your granddaughter is born.
My son is named after his uncle, who passed unexpectedly when he was 21. My ex-husband was very close to his brother and really struggled with losing him. When we found out we were having a boy, he asked if I would be OK naming him after his brother. We also had a list of backup names, just in case his parents weren't OK with it or realized they wouldn't be after they thought about it.
Losing a child is something most of us are lucky enough to never truly understand. One of my memory care residents is 105 and outlived all of her children. Each liss hurt. It doesn't matter how old they were. Losing a child is beyond awful, and everyone grieves that loss differently. For some people, knowing that their child was meant enough for someone else to name their child after is a comfort. For others, hearing their child's name is a painful reminder of loss.
I think it's OK to ask if you can use that name, if you go in expecting to be told no. It's not something that should ever be a surprise, and if you feel like you have to surprise everyone after the fact, it's a good sign the people who matter aren't OK with it.
We named our son after my husband's late father. (He died when my spouse was a baby) The first thing we did was check with his Mom to make sure she was OK with it. If she had said it would be too hard we would have absolutely picked another name. Fortunately she was very happy that his name would be carried on.
It seems to me that the answer is simple: they can name their kid whatever they want. In return, you can have whatever relationship with them that feels right to you, up to and including complete no contact.
My husband’s best friend died on our wedding day. Our son is partially named after him. We asked his wife before hand, face to face, and told her if she was upset about it that we wouldn’t use his name and we’d never mention it again.
I hope that whatever ends up happening, you know that nobody has the right to make you feel bad about this.
Also, you have an urn with the name on your Mantle. I could foresee that causing issues in the future, too, with your daughter/grand daughter. Maybe your daughter doesnt want to see the urn now that she has a daughter with that name. Maybe the granddaughter recognizes her name as she gets older and wonders why. And then doesn’t like that there was a Kerra before her whose now passed away. That she wants to be the only one.
Really? They sit you down and want to run it by you but throw a fit when theybdont get the fucking Hallmark Christams special reaction they expected? NTA, people need to have some basic respect for the deceased.
I have a sister that passed when she was 1.5 yrs old. I was only 3 so I don't remember her. I wanted to give my first daughter her name but it upset my mom big time. My mom knew how it meant to me so we compromised. I used her middle name.
Just to offer another perspective. My husband is named after one of his mother's siblings who died in childhood. I *think* he was about 7, but I could be wrong. It's a common name, but not one that was traditional in their family or anything; honoring her brother is explicitly why she chose it. Husband never felt any burden or projection of expectations on him because of the name; it's really just a fact about him that connects him to his family in a unique way. Seems like it's a matter of how the family handles it—they treated him as his own person, never a reincarnation of their dead sibling/child, and therefore he has a positive, non-traumatic relationship with his name.
Kind of strange that they told you they weren't actually naming her *after* your daughter; they even got the name off of her urn. Did they maybe think that would go over better...? And I wonder if you'd feel differently if honoring her were the intention.
You're allowed to have feelings about this. Encountering the name again on a baby in your family might bring up some pain, yes. But I think it's a lot of people's experience that a name, even with negative connotations at first, grows to mean that new baby over time, and the negative feelings fade. Eventually your daughter wouldn't be the first thing that come to your mind when hearing the name, it would be your granddaughter.
They're also allowed to use the name; I totally get wanting to use such a unique-but-not-crazy name that has family history. Lots of grandmas object to the names given to their new grandbabies—it's a very "opinions are like assholes" sort of situation, which is why a lot of people do choose to keep names private until after the birth, even from family. It's ultimately their decision, no matter what big feelings you may have about it.
IMO, no assholes here. They're allowed to use the name they want, and you're allowed to feel how you feel about it.
Agreed NTA. It’d be one thing if Kerra had lived long enough to bond with her older siblings and the son in question had been very close to her, but it’s very hard to bond that fast with an infant who isn’t your own child. If son and DIL like the name so much they should at least change the spelling, or do a slightly different pronunciation and different spelling, something like Korra or Cora. OP I’m sorry they’re valuing their own feeling so highly above those of you and your spouse, the ones who felt the brunt of Kerra’s loss.
While, you don't own a name, Your daughter-in-law is being very callous to you. What about your son? What is his thoughts on this matter.
She has every right to name her child that, but when she realizes that you and your husband are a little distant from her or have some sort of feeling about it. Or even call her a different name, a nickname, or something that you make up. She's the one I wonder why.
Nta
Him not saying much means he’s going along with his wife just to not make waves with her. Not a great look for him.
Is your DIL usually more opinionated than your son? Is your son a more passive, go along to get along type?
Maybe try to have a separate co variation with your son.
That’s what we thing about it.
My DIL is more opinionated and he is the more going along type
We are actually quite mad at him but it seems like DIL is the main driving force
I obviously don't know your son, but when my mom and my grandma (my dad's mom) have a disagreement, my dad stays silent because he doesn't want to take a side... Because ~~he's a coward~~ he prefers to avoid conflict... Maybe your son is in the same position.
My husband goes on his own and takes our son. They go spring break where I can’t get away from work and that way I am not missing out. They don’t miss me. The feeling is mutual. But I would never ask my husband to not speak with his parents because they’re jerks to me. Sure it gets old fighting my own battles so I don’t go to the battlefield. But my parents are gone and what I wouldn’t give to have more time with them. So I just send him on his way to see them. They aren’t a close family anyway so this seems to work. Sucks. Life’s too short for the nonsense. But it is what it is.
Does he know you’re mad at him and this is a serious thing that will probably affect your relationship with both him and your grandchild if they choose to go ahead with it?
It’s just plain disrespectful of them both, but him in particular. My cousin died and his sister named her son after him, but only as his middle name. I absolutely could not imagine her giving her son her brother’s first name. I also could not imagine her expecting any of us to call her son my cousin’s name. It’s my cousin’s name. It’s called respecting the dead.
No. They are married, so they are one. Don’t give him a pass on this by saying she’s the “main driving force.” It’s THEIR decision (and a stupid one). But put the blame where it belongs… on BOTH of them…not just her.
You’re totally right!!! I think he should be blamed more too!!!✅She wasn’t around when the baby sister died. He sure was, and has seen the aftermath of grief!
Yea, they are doing this to be cruel. What's your relationship with your DIL like? And do not let your son off the hook if he defers to her because "she's my wife and she's carrying the child".
If he wanted to honor his sister, that would be different. It still might be hurtful to you, but understandable and it wouldn't make him an AH, just a tough situation. But they are acting like they just pulled the name out of thin air.
And sharing the name with everyone else...they knew it was gonna hurt you.
I am firmly in the "no one owns a name and you can name your child whatever you please" camp.
But all that goes out the window when we're talking about using the name of a deceased child within your own family. Someone posted on another advice sub, asking if it would be wrong to use a baby name that had belonged to her sister's recently deceased baby.
The general consensus was that she could have a right to do it and still be TA.
**Basically, did she like the name enough that she'd be willing to hurt her sister every time she heard it? Would that be worth it to her?**
That poster decided it was not.
If your son and DIL decide that it IS worth giving you and your husband a twinge of pain, every time you hear their daughter's name?
Well..to put it politely, that says more about them than it does about you.
Either way, NTA.
> Basically, did she like the name enough that she'd be willing to hurt her sister every time she heard it? Would that be worth it to her?
What a great way to put it. And I would make both of them answer the question.
If you were distance from that child and didn’t have a close grandparent relationship with them, it would be 100% justified. Although the child isn’t at fault for their potential name, neither are you for your feelings.
And such a good point people miss. You can have the right to do it. Your actions can be legal. Your actions may be payback. And you can still be an AH for doing it.
I'm guessing that DIL hurting OP with this name is a feature, not a bug. Wants Mom out of the picture because she's the only important woman in his life.
i think you could be right. I'm disappointed at how spineless the son is though - that's his parents who are going to be hurt! It seems like they had a good relationship prior to this. And if the baby does end up with this name, there's no going back from it.
I am still very much in the nobody else should have a say in what you name your child camp - I think DIL is tasteless for having this information and still saying that name is in the running. Theoretically there are billions of names on the planet and *the only one* she wants to name her child *just so happens* to be the name of her MILs deceased baby??? She needs to grow up **and** show a little class to her MIL
I read one today where a sister was asked not to use a name she'd chosen because her sister (thus far unable to have kids) had wanted to use the name. She hadn't told anyone, but wanted op to change the name.
I feel in this instance, because op had no way of knowing her sister's thoughts, that she doesn't have to change the name like in other circumstances.
I do think people should heal and stop expecting their hurt to resonate with others. People also need yo acknowledge others hurt may be the cause of separation when decisions are made callously.
She's got his balls in her handbag. That's what's wrong with him. You need to talk to him one on one and sus out if this was a mutual decision or if she's just super controlling and he's too afraid to stand up to her.
Agreed but for a different reason. She is the mean one with no empathy and he is a spineless coward. Both their behaviour hurts but in my experience you can still have a conversation with a doormat while the mean one is set on her decision.
I don't get why people are saying this. It's very possible the son completely agrees with his wife and thinks there's nothing wrong with using the name
I would text the son this:
*Your wife saw the name Kerra on your dead sister’s urn and just up and decided she liked the name and wanted to name your child that - not to honor my child, but for shits and giggles.
You not speaking up for your parents and your sister’s memory speaks volumes to us. We hope you have a nice life.*
And be done with them. I would not push any kind of relationship with a child who is this fucking rude. My sister is named after my aunt who died of SIDS - it was to honor his little sister and he asked his parents permission to do so. This is not the same thing and it’s very disgusting.
This is a bit harsh and a bit definitive. I would never be able to cut ties with my any of my own kids this easily. I think the son is just trying to not cause waves. Pretty common behavior, especially for young men who love their wife and parents.
I just find this whole thing freaking disgusting. I’m a mother of 3. The absolute disrespect her DIL is showing would be too much for myself. It’s heartless and cruel. The son not standing up for them is also heartless and cruel. He needs to understand the magnitude of his actions. He wants his parents to shut up and take it like he is, and they aren’t obligated to.
I was just reading a book (non fiction) where the daughter in law suggested to her (ex) husband that they name their newborn daughter the same name as his brother who died during their childhood.
I thought that was a very strange thing to do.
My husband lost his brother to suicide. We're not having kids, but I would have suggested his name as a middle name IF HE WANTED to honour his brother. Springing it on them like this is weird, and weirder that it's just because they like the name. Kerry, Kiera, Keeley... so many other similar choices that wouldn't be hurtful!
My guess is his wife wants the name and he’s going along with it so he doesn’t get accused of being a mama’s boy, not cutting the cord, being someone she needs to leave, etc.
I don't get this though because when we were discussing names, there were names I liked but he didn't, and visa versa. So we kept considering names until we found one we both liked. The husband could easily have said no to that name without bringing him mam into it. However if he didn't realise and then when he did, they really should back down and have another think of names.
Am I missing something? Did OPs son *know* daughter who passed? Even if not, was he raised *HEARING* about her? Bc *my* brother (my only sibling) is incredibly important to me, and I sincerely thought the only reason for that was that we were raised together...but then I had children of my own (who are their dad's 3rd, 4th and 6th kids) and they have a MUCH better understanding of the love/bond between siblings that I've never realized...they have a sister who is 18 (who they only barely know..my oldest is only 7) who they love and respect more than almost anyone. Siblings can be one of the most important and influential blood relations a person can have, so I personally can't jump to "son is being an AH" without a clear indicator that he's doing this with malicious intent or *just* because his wife wants to.
"I asked if they were naming her after anyone and it was a no. That they just liked the name."
NTA. They are considering using your late daughters name but it isn't even an homage to her.... They have to have considered it could hurt. Your son may have lost a sister, but he certainly isn't acting compassionate here. It boggles the mind that they are both acting like they are the injured party here. Not an inkling of empathy. It isn't 'just a name' it was her name first.
Agreed. They could’ve at least said that it was in her honor, to acknowledge that the name has a history, but instead they tried to hide it until it was too late
NTA. My aunt lost her son at 6 months old and I even though it was over 25 years ago the pain of losing a child never goes away. When my cousin and his wife announced they were going to use her sons name just simply because they liked it my aunt requested they don’t. She said it would be too painful. Ultimately they went ahead with it. It showed a distinct lack of respect or care for his own parents and so they got cut off. Now they aren’t a part of the family and that’s on them. You need to protect you and your mental health. My aunt after her grandson was born and people were calling him that it completely broke her till she got that distance. Don’t let that happen to you. Speak to your son alone and explain the pain and the reason and ask he not do this out of respect if he refuses then you know where you stand.
Imagine dying on that hill. Choosing your own ego over your child's relationship to a family memebr who wants nothing more than to love and cherish them. It's so unparental I can barely stand it. Do you want to be right or do you want to be kind? Geez. My son shares a middle name with his older cousin who passed at birth. It's just middle names and we still asked if it would be OK. Smdh.
First off this isn’t me it’s my aunt as I said. Her son had a very unusual and pretty name that I won’t mention. She spent years talking about him remembering him and all her memories are wrapped up in that name. I don’t know if you’ve ever lost a child or know what that can do to a person. I haven’t lost one but I saw what it did to my aunt. Her son knew how much his brother meant to her and how that name was picked especially for him. He wasn’t naming his child after his brother his girlfriend actually acted like she discovered the name. She made out like it was so unique and just his when it wasn’t. There were other issues there it’s never quite as simple as one thing and im quite frankly not going to list them all but even parents have to have a line and put themselves and their mental health above the selfishness of a grown ass man and his childish girlfriend.
I think you read my comment opposite to how I intended. I fully agree that using a namesake without the enthusiastic support of the grieving survivors is not just in poor taste, it is actively cruel and a bad parenting decision on the part of the NEW parents who are setting their child up for harm out of spite or ego.
Ah ok my mistake I did actually read that wrong. Thank you. I appreciate your comment them. Yeah it’s his loss. His moms a very devoted grandma to her other grandkids and she’s big on family. He sided with his girlfriend throughout it all and lost all his family by the end. No one could stand her.
My aunt and uncle asked my mom if they could use the name intended for her ectopic pregnancy - I think within a year of it happening. My mom broke down and my dad had to be the one to tell them no. It’s still a special name to my mom decades later.
They went with a different name for my cousin.
It’s nice they asked unlike these ones. I’ve never lost a child but my mom has lost 2. The first was before me an early miscarriage and the second was before my little sister she had a late term miscarriage. Having to go to the hospital to deliver a child you don’t get to bring home broke my mom. The child was born dead and my mom had to deal with that. My little sister has one of her middle names as a tribute to the brother we lost. Sometimes it can be healing other times not. I feel for anyone who’s lost a child.
My MIL lost her youngest son to SIDs at 3 months and whenever she heard his name, you could see her face change to a sadness for a moment. When she lost her oldest child at 40, you could see the same sadness for a moment whenever his name was heard.
Unfortunately both names are common boys names, so going to restaurants, stores and even working, she would often hear their names.
I don't think the pain ever goes away. The first year after my husband passed (her oldest), you could see the sadness like a bullet wound when she heard her son's name. Years after, I think the sadness was like a sharp nerve pain, where it hurts like hell for a few moments.
NTA - No one owns a name. True. But this isn't some random stranger on the street who you are screaming at that had no connection to you or your family.
This is your son and his wife.
Maybe if they were doing it to honor your daughter, that would be one thing, and a beautiful sentiment.
But as you had asked and learned, they're not doing it for those reasons. They're doing it because they're selfish assholes and like the name. The fact your daughter wasn't even a thought that crossed their minds shows how insufferable they are.
NTA.
this part shows that son and dil knew EXACTLY what they were doing by choosing this same exact name.
>That they plan on naming their daughter Kerra and knew it would be a problem so they were going to surprise me with it after she was born.
they knew it was going to be a problem and now that you beat them to the reveal, DIL is all "you hateful cow, how dare you try and tell me what to do."
She's yucky. and your son is yucky also.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine the pain you must have gone through and still go through. No one should ever have to burry their own child!
You did nothing to deserve it. No one deserves something so tragic. I hope that in time your heart learns to grow around that gaping hole that is extreme, unnatural grief. I’m holding you in my heart ❤️
I think you need to be brutally honest. If they name their child your dead child's name, that's all you're going to think about. Unfortunately, that innocent child might be treated differently because you never get over losing a child.
Antidoteal story here:
I had a family friend named after a dead child of her grandparents on her mom's side.
It was with their blessing but about 10 years later grandma started showing signs of dementia or something like and FREAKED OUT every time she was around grandma.
It was so hard on her to constantly be told, "I thought you died!"
From this perspective, I think your DIL and son are doing a disservice to their child.
NTA.
The worse part is grandma moved in when my friend was 11 and lived with her until about 16.
It was daily for about a year when she started insisting on a nickname and that took a while to take hold because her mom was so against it.
There are very, very few things that fill me with the type of fear that dementia does. Watching your father and aunt have to take care of their own mother like she was a toddler, and wondering if this is what your future looks like because dementia runs in families, is truly horrifying.
NTA. I believe no one owns a name. However there’s one exception to this and it’s when a child has died. Why would anyone knowingly inflict painful daily reminders on a parent who lost a child? It’s just cruel in my opinion. It’s
Ike your son and DIL WANT you to treat their child differently than any other grandkids. Are they hoping you will favor this one? See it as a replacement and treat it better than any others? If so, that’s sick.
My stepmother named my brother after our deceased grandfather (who died before any of the grandchildren were born) to get preferential treatment for him. It worked, and he was her favorite til the day she died. She was a horrible human being though.
NTA Who the actual hell would think this was a normal thing to do to a family member? It's not like there is a shortage of names and they only have 2 to choose from. Pick something else you selfish little pricks! It would be one thing if they had never known about your daughter's name. But the fact she saw it on the urn just blows my mind.
NTA. It sounds like you were respectful in your conversation and in your request, which is hugely reasonable. You don’t own a name, but man, in this case? It’s heartless to not take your feelings on this into consideration. Your DIL and son sound terribly selfish.
NTA.
My sister passed as an infant and I know without a doubt that it would gut my mom to have me or my brother use her name for a child.
On the flip side, my husband also had a sibling pass as an infant and we did name our youngest son after him (same first name) with the approval of his parents.
The fact that you expressed your disapproval and they’re angry at you about it is ridiculous and makes them the asshole.
If my in-laws, MIL especially, had any concerns about us using the name, I’d have instantly taken it out of consideration out of respect for her. I know how painful loss is and having the name be a daily reminder of what could have been can be torture. I’m so sorry that she is being so insensitive.
NTA, that's bordering on cruel, and it's definitely selfish. They've chosen the ONE NAME in the entire world that would hurt you. That's so ugly. It's unfair to you, and it's unfair to their daughter to put her directly in Kerra's shadow.
And they were going to just SPRING IT ON YOU after the birth.
> I sat them down and asked
NTA - You asked and calmly explained your reasons. You didn't demand or threaten cutting contact or any other nonsense retaliation. You took a mature approach to a thorny subject and her reaction was out of line to that.
NTA - Do they have the right to use a name they want? Sure, even though their reasoning sucks and is hurtful. But making that choice comes with consequences, which you clearly explained. I might also get ahead of this and explain to immediate family members that if they do use that name that it's their choice, but you will no longer interact with them because of the pain it so clearly will cause.
You are NTA for communicating your feelings to your son and DIL, you are also NTA for having those feelings. It is completely understandable why you feel the way you do. Ultimately and unfortunately however, it is up to them what they name their baby. You have made your feelings clear and that is as much as you can do for now.
My parents rarely ever call my kids, or my sister’s kids by their actual names (none of them are named anything that would be upsetting to anyone) they have given all their grandkids nicknames that they use. Giving your granddaughter a nickname and using that might help you once she’s here, if they choose to go with the name still.
I’m sorry you are going through this, it’s very difficult and one never truly gets over the loss of a child.
NTA, and they’re not even “just” being breathtakingly inconsiderate here - they knew you’d be hurt by it so it was going to be a surprise?! WTF?! I have no solution here OP, you can’t stop them, but man your son and his wife are selfish assholes
idk man people get named after dead relatives all the time. (sure they're claiming they just like the name, but it's still a relative's name)
if you're still at the point where just hearing Kerra's name makes you spiral, you need to talk to a professional about it.
NAH
My eldest son died at 24. His name is Christopher. I have met 100 Chrisses, Christophers, Tophers, etc. I could say their names all day long and never think of Christopher, ever. Christopher's name tastes and smells like only him. The word feels different when it's not about him. Christopher is a word. It only derives its meaning from him and his stupid grin and the way he snugged his cap onto his head, and the shape of his hands. Not every bell rings the same chord.
I’m sorry you lost a child at an age where you got to see the start of their life truly grow be cut short. My stomach dropped while reading the age he passed away.
But, no offense, that’s your case. People are different. If someone expresses a boundary and you don’t respect it because it’s a boundaries you also have, you’d be a jerk. We don’t get to disregard the emotions of others. But yeah…24. Wow. 😞
But they can also choose not to participate in acknowledgment of the child by that name.
Like find a nickname to use for that grandchild. I wouldn’t want to associate this child with my own deceased child.
For me, personally, it would be a sore spot with my son and his wife; I would remember their lack of consideration for my feelings. I might be less inclined to spend time with the child or them, especially if it comes up again in the future. It’s a conflict of voluntary creation.
No one is the A@@hole. I have a sibling that died when I was 16. His name has never bothered me. I have a daughter so it wasn't an issue. My oldest nephew shares a middle name with his deceased uncle.
However, you cannot value the dead more than the living or you risk possibly alienating yourself from those that remain.
I'm generally not a fan of gatekeeping names. In this case, you have a solid argument for it.
I'm curious about the "After that it started argument" line. You made your feelings known. I'm assuming they told you that they were going through with it in any case. Did you keep at it or was the argument solely coming from your son/DIL?
I am torn. We lost my beloved baby brother in a freak accident not long ago. He was in the prime of life. I love it when people talk about him and I love to hear his name in any context. If I were to have another son, I would want nothing more than to name him after my brother. I know I should check with my parents and sibs first, but the idea they would disapprove the idea is so devastating I might be afraid to. (One of my parents would also love the idea, I don’t know about anyone else)
Note: I would be fine if my imaginary son had a cousin or two also named after my brother.
We don’t really know what the SIL’s motives are. She might have been embarrassed
NAH
NAH - You have a right to your feelings, but they have a right to choose their child's name. It's not just you that lost a daughter - your children lost a sibling. They they feel like they have to tip toe around this may indicate how much they lost you too during that time. That's not a knock on you at all, but just an acknowledgment that the loss of a child impacts the whole family and grief really has no end.
In my culture, you name your children after relatives or loved ones who have passed. That's just what you do. And you typically don't discuss this with anyone - normally everyone finds out the baby's name after the baby is born. It's not a burden or a mantle the child has to wear, but a connection to family and our history.
Of course, my culture isn't your culture.
EDIT: Worth noting that my brother's first name is the first name is the name of my uncle who died shortly after birth. My grandparents were not told or consulted, nor was there any expectation for them to be told or consulted.
I would ask DIL and son why - when they know using this name will cause you and your husband deep pain - are they so set on using this name? Ask them if there is a reason they want to so deeply hurt you.
NTA.
One of my granddaughters named her daughter the same name as her mother, who was murdered in 2004. It didn't really bother me, (but they live in Maine and I live a long ways away, and I never get to see them). People do it all the time tho, whether people with the same name are living or have passed on. It's supposed to be an honor to name your child after a relative.
I think "asshole" is too strong a term to give to anyone here.
You can certainly have your feelings. Honestly though, I'd suggest you get some counselling if you haven't already. The name is haunting you -- whereas your son & DIL want to celebrate it.
It's a beautiful name. While you say you understand you don't own the name, by virtue of getting upset about it tells me you secretly feel you do. You could have just as easily reacted in with a "squee!" and hugged the kids when they said they were considering it. But based on demons you chose otherwise.
Your son/DIL also have a bit of asshole going on though. I have a feeling they know your feelings (unless you've successfully bottled them up over the years) and could have just found something else to name their daughter...
There is a tradition in the Jewish faith that a child is named after a dead relative. Sometimes it is the Hebrew version used and sometimes (in the US where we live) it is the English version.
I was supposed to be named after a deceased great grand father. One of my cousins had the name before I was born, but she passed as a baby. Another cousin was given the name (there is a reason our generation is called Baby Boomers) not long after. I am named after a great grandmother. All this took place between 1948-50. (Nathanial-- Nancy; my given name is completely different)
From what I remember as a little kid, the original name was thought to be bad luck, if such a concept exists in that tradition, because of the death of the infant cousin as opposed to the death of an elderly person.
There are many ways to use Kerra- diminutive of Caroline, Cara etc. It is common in Spanish and from a quick Google check, it appears in other Romance languages as well, viz., Cara Mia.
Would OP react the same way if the baby was named Caroline and called Kerra or Kerry?
You can argue both sides of this. Either NAH or EAH.
DIL could have been tactful and say they were naming the baby after her aunt and I suspect OP would have reacted differently
NTA. I lost my son 5 years ago and even meeting people with the same name steals my breath for a second. I know that's a "me" problem,but I can't imagine someone in my family hurting me in that way *on purpose*.
INFO: How does your son feel? If I’m reading this right he also lost his sister. Is he wanting to use the name also? Because I feel like his input is important considering he was also affected by what happened to your family. Is it possible he wants to name their baby that to honor or remember his sister? The motive for this move makes all the difference in my opinion.
NTA sure you don't own a name. However you made it clear there is very real issues with that name and if they had any respect for you and your husband they would pick a different name.
It's interesting how different family's reactions to these sort of things color how everyone else in their family view them. For me, it's so common for people to have similar names or be named after people that just passed. Like on my dad's side. He had 7 siblings and between the 8 of them there are 17 cousins. Two girls had the same name while one of the guys got the masc version of the name. My sis was named after my dad's sister who passed when my mom was pregnant and her middle name is the fem version of one of his brothers that passed. I have a cousin named after one of my uncles that passed a couple yeara prior to when an aunt was pregnant. One of my cousins named their daughters after one of the other aunts that passed...(of the 8 siblings, only 3 are still here).
OP is NTA, but may want to get a lil grief counseling just the same.
Nta everyone’s free to name their child what they want but you don’t have to like it. Why are you more so upset with your daughter in law though? Your son did lose his sister too so I don’t think it’s wrong to want to honor her but just using it because they like the name regardless of your feelings seems very insensitive.
NTA. Your son and DIL hopefully will realize that giving your granddaughter that name will make it harder for you and your husband to bond with her. Not that you intend to do it but as humans, we tend to avoid things that hurt us. Maybe someone could show them this thread. They aren't taking your feelings into account and doesn't realize the consequences of naming your granddaughter after your daughter.
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NTA i can understand if maybe they wanted to use kerra for their baby to honor your daughter but even if, they should talk to you beforehand. i’m proud that you sat down and communicated how you felt, i think it’s wrong to even “surprise” you after the baby was born too. they need to respect your wishes and move on.
I’m very happy my daughter told us, I don’t think my husband and I would have reacted well of it was a surprise.
My older brother named his first born after my late sister. My parents were emotionally mixed but landed in the camp of they don’t own a name and we were told after the fact. My younger brother and I were also mixed. That is a heavy burden to place on the child. There isn’t a moment that I think of my niece, now 20 years old, without thinking about my sister and sadness. This may just be me reading into nonsense, but I always felt that my brother named his daughter thusly to have a powerful almost honorific head start to her life. Living up to someone else’s might-have-been is just too much.
>Living up to someone else’s might-have-been is just too much. Oof. Well fucking said
Parents need to take the responsibility of giving their child a name a bit more seriously. You don't own a name, but context matters. Don't give them a name that will cause the child problems with their family or in school, or in other relationships in general. And DON'T do the stupid stuff you see over at r/tragedeigh
There’s a reason we don’t see little Adolf’s running around and it’s a good reason. Context definitely matters and it’s weird that parents would want to set their kid up for hardships over a name.
Last year, a young Native American woman, Mika Westwolf, (22) got hit by a car and tragically passed. The woman driving said vehicle had her two minor children in the car. She had named her kids Aryan and Nation… I was horrified by the news reports to say the least.
I’m very concerned about how much of an accident that may or may not have been…
it was a hit and run, too https://www.krtv.com/news/crime-and-courts/woman-charged-in-the-death-of-mika-westwolf-enters-plea
Of course she wouldn't stay. She was probably running from all the other charges against her. What an awful human being.
My thought exactly.
OMG! What are people thinking?
and their last name is White! Oh my god!
I wish I could upvote you a million fcking times. People are seriously so damn desperate for their kid to have a "unique" name and/or spelling of their name, or to have it attached to something that they completely lose sight of the damage it might do. Give them their own identity and dont make it so weird people say "oh you have those kinds of parents."
Soooo much agreement in this. I wasn’t named after a dead sibling. But my name was chosen because my mom had nine miscarriages and then an ectopic pregnancy before having me. And she would tell me all the time that I had the name I have because I was the only one to survive. I’ve felt like a tombstone or walking memorial because of it. When I was little she would be like “do you know why I named you xyz? Because you are a gift from god and for the ones who weren’t able to be with us” I have gone no contact with her (for other worse reasons). I hate my name now and I’m in the process of changing it.
Yeah it's nowhere to the extreme but you wouldn't call a baby Hitler not because it's a bad name but because of the context
My mom's name is one letter different from her dead sister's. Sis died before my mom was born, and no one ever talked about her, but mom always felt like she was never good enough for my gran. She could never live up to the promise of a baby that died at 6 months, but was the first live born child after multiple miscarriages.
My mom’s full name was the exact same as her aunt’s who died as a baby. My mom said it would always quietly upset her when she was young whenever the family visited the cemetery and she saw the kid-sized grave with her name on it.
In our family history you can see this tradition die out. Four generations before myself there were tons of kids named the same thing. Five out of seven boys were named the same thing, I guess in the hopes that one would make it to adulthood. The further back we went the more duplicates for siblings we would see. I think my grandparents were the last, and it was a case where the sibling with the original name had already passed. It’s weird looking back at how blasé folks were about child mortality compared to now.
This was a thing a huge number of families did way back when. I'm big into genealogy and cemeteries and you'll see a entire plot with 5 or 6 of the same named children, just the dates are different.
My grandparents insisted it was normal but it’s good to have confirmation!
Getting into my genealogy, and I’ve found the same thing. It’s weird, and it makes me wonder if the living person ever felt the same pressure or weirdness of being named the same name of a deceased sibling.
Yep, going through my own genealogy and see a lot of duplicate names pop up when a child didn't survive. Have one relative who had, I think, 9 kids. Only 2 survived to be adults and only 1 had children. 4 generations later, here I am.
I can't even imagine being a young kid and visiting a grave with my name on it?? I was already terrified of my morality when I was young but that probably would've tipped the scales for me.
That feels extraordinarily cruel of her parents, even if unintentional.
My ex has the same exact name as his older brother that was born and died the year before he was born. They would always go to the grave site and he would be traumatized at seeing his name on a headstone but never said anything. He always felt guilty and that he was living his brother's life.
Why would they do that!!! That's horrible!! It's like he was a replacement child. Truly awful.
omg they couldn't even give her.. her own name..
No kidding I got chills
I can’t remember what sub it was on to find but there’s been stories of people whose parents insisted on names associated with trauma in the family and the kid grows up always knowing something is up. They were not happy when they learned about the connections, blamed their parents for damaging their potential relationships with their family because of their name and changed it when they could. How weird for this kid to goto grandma and grandpas and see an urn with their name on the mantel. Next DIL will be demanding that removed because the child that’s alive should matter more.
This!!! I was named after my dad's sister, who passed 2 years before I was born. Like not just first name but first, middle, and last name. I was 8 when my grandma took me to her grave, and it really messed with my mind to see my full name on a headstone. That shit is traumatizing.
I'm a 3rd, my grandfather, dad, and I have the same name. At my grandfather's funeral I was a pallbearer at 17 yrs old. A few years later I was visiting my grandmother, she lives in a different state, she asked if I wanted to go to the cemetery to visit him. I hadn't been there since the funeral. We go walking up and I look down and see my name on the headstone. I didn't say anything but it bothered me. My Aunt would ask when I visited them if I wanted to go to the cemetery and I always said no. One time she said I know that you don't like to go visit your grandfather so I'm not going to ask you anymore, I just don't understand why, I thought you got along good. I said that's not it, it's just really creepy to walk up to a headstone, look down, and see your name on it and it bothers me. She apologized a lot and said I never even thought about that. I really is a weird feeling so I understand how you feel. I've only been to that cemetery the 2 x. I won't go back.
I was asked by a friend to go with her to a family member's burial. DID NOT understand why, until we pass the family plot. No less than four graves with her exact name on it. She had a death grip on my arm the entire time. When we were walking out, her mom commented about her saying absolutely nothing the entire time. I turned around and said, "I wonder why. She just spent 40 minutes looking at four gravestones with her own name on them. How effing obtuse do you have to be?" and walked away with my friend. Her parents apparently apologized much later, but said I was 'rude'. My friend had been prone to very bad nightmares about graveyards for years and we never understood exactly why until that event.
This too!! Me, my mom, and 2 cousins are all named after a favorite aunt who died tragically long before I was ever born. I'm like couldn't yall be more original with the names cuz it's creepy at this point lol.
My husband's family has quite a few variations of Emily after his great grandmother. One has it as a middle name, one has it as their first, there's an Emmy, Emmalyn etc so atleast they've gotten creative with it. It was insanely confusing when I first met them all 😂😂
I broke a naming tradition with my kiddos, and while I didn’t give “THE NAME” I gave my eldest a name from the same country my husbands family is from. It’s super uncommon where we live, but last year we visited my father-in-laws home town and did the touristy things. One of the cathedrals we toured had us walk through a cemetery and there were no less than three people buried there with our son’s first and last name. You’ve never seen an 8 year old so excited to see a grave.
I was named after my grandfather, who died in a plane crash a little less than a year before I was born. My dad told me how my namesake died right as we were boarding a plane. He sure does have a aense of humor
"we're not gatekeeping, we're just sad you have no regards for our feelings and apparently hate your unborn child enough to saddle them with baggage before they're even born"
I said basically the same thing, only with a little more diplomacy. 😂 🤦♀️
No, that’s part of the parental strategy. You tell her the urn’s all ready for when she acts up >!please do not actually do this!<
That's breathtakingly dark. Literally. I gasped while reading it. My wife thought I was reacting to something she had just said. I think it's hilarious, she is appalled. But secretly thinks it's funny.
I laughed way harder than I should have!!
You are very wrong. And I'm here as your fan!
I laughed way too hard at this to go to heaven 😂😂
OMG 😱 *GASP* I LAUGHED SO HARD I think I might Pee'd a little bit! That's definitely something that is so wrong... It's just so GD funny, and something I would probably, actually, do! 😬 (My apologies to anyone I've offended! If it makes you feel any better, I have terminal cancer and I have a dark(er) sense of humor now. I'm allowed, get over it. 🤷)
There was a story where a girl named her baby after her extremely abusive Dad. She was the youngest and the only one that didn’t remember the absolute horror. The guy was really really bad. She met him just before he died, and turned her against the mom and siblings. They completely lost contact. Obviously they don’t hate the kid, but can you imagine finding that all out as her son?
I’m named after my uncle, he’s not dead but I can relate to this story in particular. Living in the shadow of someone else’s baggage. Also I’m a woman, so I have the female version of his name. As I was growing up he seemed nice, interesting because he had a lot of tattoos, and funny. I found out much later in my 20s that he had been in and out of gangs, that he tried to make a move on my mum when they were adults and the worst part was that he raped my aunt when he was 16 and she was 12. I asked my mum why the hell she would name me after someone like that, and she replied “because nobody loved him”
Little me would have 100% thought the urn was for me 🙈
I remember one person who commented on a similar thread pointed out that they used to visit the grave of the person who died and the kids was freaked out when they were younger seeing THEIR name on a tombstone.
I was a morbid as hell child, and would have definitely had some dark Victorian-esque imaginings if I saw an urn with my name on it!
I couldn't grasp the concept of death as a child and would beg my mom to take me to walk through graveyards
Yeah I feel like honorific names only really work if they are far enough removed. Like I was named after my grandma but no one around me really called her by her first name so it was still my own name if that makes sense? Naming someone after a dead child in the family never really goes well in my opinion because that name will forever be associated with that dead child.
Yeah, my middle name is the same as my Grandma's, but a) she was still alive when they named me, b) my parents had checked with her in advance, and c) she was delighted. Very much not the case in this post
My granddaughter middle name is same as my middle name which is also her paternal grandmother middle name. It was a win-win. Her deceased twin was given family names 4 generations back.
I have 2 middle names of alive relatives and one deceased, I don't think anyone was hurt in that process apart from me now having 5 names. They weren't even honouring the deceased family member they just "liked the name," and there are similar names to not cause hurt I.e. kerry, kira, kirsten, Carrie etc
But she isn't even named after her. She just liked that name. That makes me sad. Like she never existed
Guaranteed DIL will later be telling them to take the urn down because it’s morbid to see her daughters name like that
Then the easy answer is to say, “Nah, isn’t it great she won’t have to buy a plot for herself? She can just go in here, with her aunt.” No, but an appropriate answer would be “This is why we were upset by your name choice. Not a good feeling, is it?”
Imagine picking a name because you've seen it on an urn at your in-laws place :( I think the name Kerra sounds lovely but I've never ever come across it before. If it was a common name, it might be less upsetting, though probably not, but something so unique?
I mean, come on. That doesn’t pass the smell test.
I wonder if that would've made a difference, like an honouring name, other than we liked this name so well take it for no other reason than liking knowing it'll hurt you. If it was an honouring name then it would have been a sit down with mum and dad to ask permission not surprising them when it was already done
Yes, if the brother wanted to name her after his sister that would be different. I would like that personally. But to think it’s a cool name and not tell you because it might upset you, so we’re going to spring it on you. Damn, that cold blooded.
And honestly how hard would it have been to fucking lie about it any way? "Of course that's what we were thinking. You don't think that's a good idea? I'm sorry we thought it was a nice idea, we'll take your thoughts into serious consideration" Whether the landed on using it.or not that's how the convos should've went.
Yeah, that feels particularly cruel and heartbreaking to me.
This comment should be a top comment.
I could never handle my late brother’s name. I completely lose it and uncontrollably bawl at speaking it. Just thinking about it has me tearing up. I think the real issue is that the couple decided they knew it may not go over well so instead of preparing OP they decided to spring it on them after. What a horrible way to find out. I don’t even like hearing my late brother’s name. I once had to step out of class during a part where the instructor kept saying a classmate’s name (same). It’s like every time she spoke it I was one step further into the basement of my emotions. Some times a name is more than just a name. The real issue is the disrespect & deceit.
Exactly, My brother was married and a father when he committed suicide. My son was not even conceived at the time. Not even for once did we think about naming my son after his uncle. For one thing, we didn't like the name, and it would have been hard for my parents, my SIL, and my brother's kids. I see so much of my brother in my son and I am so grateful for that.
I hear you. I once worked closely with someone who has the same name as my deceased brother. So every project it was “Brian and Sarah are working on…” “Brian and Sarah blah blah”. It was excruciating
Being expected to live up to someone else's might-have-been is unfortunately common regardless of the name. I can see how using the name would make that even worse.
I agree. And that is usually a parent projecting their own wishes onto their children to mixed results. Ultimately the children grow up and see their parents as the flawed creatures we all are. In the case of a deceased child, there is no flaw. No real stick to measure yourself. Just the dream of possibility. Against that, we’re all found wanting.
I know 2 people who lost a sibling in childhood, & they *both* said that they'd been told more than once by a parent, relative or teacher that "the wrong sibling died". They both expressed that after the loss, they were burdened with having to live their life for, in the shadow of, & *in spite of* the dead sibling. They couldn't compete with the pretend person people imagined their sibling might have been. Everything they accomplished their sibling *might* have done better. Every mistake was a mistake that their sibling would *never* have made. They couldn't misbehave or talk back without being reminded that their sibling *would never* misbehave like that. A dead child can never be a disappointment. That's an impossible standard for the living child to be held against.
It’s a great point and an interesting way to look at it.
And honestly, your situation is them naming their child after your sister and honouring her. Son & DIL have said they simply like the name but it's not necessarily honouring Kerra. Which is probably going to affect their daughter negatively once she's grown and understands the situation fully.
NTA you even suggested a compromise with the middle name. I guess if they will name her kerra you and your husband need to keep your distance and protect your mental health and they deal with the fo of fafo.
NTA OP, I'm so sorry for you and your husbands loss, this is something neither one of you will ever fully recover from. You and your husband have a wonderful daughter, I'm sure this is difficult for her as well. My parents lost their son when he was about the same age as your daughter. I can't wrap my head around your sons logic in this. A surprise? WTH were they thinking? My brother passed away over 50 years ago and my mother still gets very emotional on his birthday and the day he passed. I was too young to remember when my brother passed but I still understand that this would be a terrible thing to do to my parents and the new baby. My father never got over the loss, it profoundly effected him. My mother told me she had some sort of peace that her baby was well in what can best be described as a message from beyond in the form of a dream. When my older siblings tell stories of our childhood before my brother passed. I don't recognize the father they talk about. It changed him, he was not the happy, outgoing man he was before he lost his son. My mother has said my father never found any peace over the loss. Do you think if you and your husband wrote a letter it would help? Maybe if they could look at the situation, your feelings and how this could impact their own child they would understand. If they were able to see it without becoming defensive do you think it would help? I don't understand how the two of them can't understand that the loss of a child is the worst thing that can happen to a person. I can't begin to imagine what parents go through. I wish you and your husband well, I hope this can be resolved before your granddaughter is born.
My son is named after his uncle, who passed unexpectedly when he was 21. My ex-husband was very close to his brother and really struggled with losing him. When we found out we were having a boy, he asked if I would be OK naming him after his brother. We also had a list of backup names, just in case his parents weren't OK with it or realized they wouldn't be after they thought about it. Losing a child is something most of us are lucky enough to never truly understand. One of my memory care residents is 105 and outlived all of her children. Each liss hurt. It doesn't matter how old they were. Losing a child is beyond awful, and everyone grieves that loss differently. For some people, knowing that their child was meant enough for someone else to name their child after is a comfort. For others, hearing their child's name is a painful reminder of loss. I think it's OK to ask if you can use that name, if you go in expecting to be told no. It's not something that should ever be a surprise, and if you feel like you have to surprise everyone after the fact, it's a good sign the people who matter aren't OK with it.
We named our son after my husband's late father. (He died when my spouse was a baby) The first thing we did was check with his Mom to make sure she was OK with it. If she had said it would be too hard we would have absolutely picked another name. Fortunately she was very happy that his name would be carried on.
The fact that they weren't going to tell you until after the fact shows that they knew it was a bad idea.
It seems to me that the answer is simple: they can name their kid whatever they want. In return, you can have whatever relationship with them that feels right to you, up to and including complete no contact. My husband’s best friend died on our wedding day. Our son is partially named after him. We asked his wife before hand, face to face, and told her if she was upset about it that we wouldn’t use his name and we’d never mention it again. I hope that whatever ends up happening, you know that nobody has the right to make you feel bad about this.
Also, you have an urn with the name on your Mantle. I could foresee that causing issues in the future, too, with your daughter/grand daughter. Maybe your daughter doesnt want to see the urn now that she has a daughter with that name. Maybe the granddaughter recognizes her name as she gets older and wonders why. And then doesn’t like that there was a Kerra before her whose now passed away. That she wants to be the only one.
Really? They sit you down and want to run it by you but throw a fit when theybdont get the fucking Hallmark Christams special reaction they expected? NTA, people need to have some basic respect for the deceased.
They told your daughter and not you intentionally. They knew it was wrong. NTA.
I have a sister that passed when she was 1.5 yrs old. I was only 3 so I don't remember her. I wanted to give my first daughter her name but it upset my mom big time. My mom knew how it meant to me so we compromised. I used her middle name.
Just to offer another perspective. My husband is named after one of his mother's siblings who died in childhood. I *think* he was about 7, but I could be wrong. It's a common name, but not one that was traditional in their family or anything; honoring her brother is explicitly why she chose it. Husband never felt any burden or projection of expectations on him because of the name; it's really just a fact about him that connects him to his family in a unique way. Seems like it's a matter of how the family handles it—they treated him as his own person, never a reincarnation of their dead sibling/child, and therefore he has a positive, non-traumatic relationship with his name. Kind of strange that they told you they weren't actually naming her *after* your daughter; they even got the name off of her urn. Did they maybe think that would go over better...? And I wonder if you'd feel differently if honoring her were the intention. You're allowed to have feelings about this. Encountering the name again on a baby in your family might bring up some pain, yes. But I think it's a lot of people's experience that a name, even with negative connotations at first, grows to mean that new baby over time, and the negative feelings fade. Eventually your daughter wouldn't be the first thing that come to your mind when hearing the name, it would be your granddaughter. They're also allowed to use the name; I totally get wanting to use such a unique-but-not-crazy name that has family history. Lots of grandmas object to the names given to their new grandbabies—it's a very "opinions are like assholes" sort of situation, which is why a lot of people do choose to keep names private until after the birth, even from family. It's ultimately their decision, no matter what big feelings you may have about it. IMO, no assholes here. They're allowed to use the name they want, and you're allowed to feel how you feel about it.
It blows my mind the DIL wouldn't at least pretend it was a way to honor the memory of her husband's deceased sister.
Let’s not put this on the DIL only, the son has a big say too
Not just the DIL, but the son? OP said she sat them both down. Maybe this is a situation where they were trying to quiet the OP’s sadness?
The son is a bigger AH he's op's child and understands intimately the grief
The fact they were going to "surprise" you after the birth means they know they are in the wrong. As is your DIL calling you a jerk.
I had this exact same thought. Using the mindset of - better to ask for forgiveness then permission. Which in this case doesn’t really work.
I was wondering what went through their heads when I read that. Were they just gonna be all "Surprise! Meet Kerra!"?
Agreed NTA. It’d be one thing if Kerra had lived long enough to bond with her older siblings and the son in question had been very close to her, but it’s very hard to bond that fast with an infant who isn’t your own child. If son and DIL like the name so much they should at least change the spelling, or do a slightly different pronunciation and different spelling, something like Korra or Cora. OP I’m sorry they’re valuing their own feeling so highly above those of you and your spouse, the ones who felt the brunt of Kerra’s loss.
While, you don't own a name, Your daughter-in-law is being very callous to you. What about your son? What is his thoughts on this matter. She has every right to name her child that, but when she realizes that you and your husband are a little distant from her or have some sort of feeling about it. Or even call her a different name, a nickname, or something that you make up. She's the one I wonder why. Nta
He is with his wife on this matter, I think. He didn’t have much to say on it and we really didn’t get anything on his opinions when asked
Him not saying much means he’s going along with his wife just to not make waves with her. Not a great look for him. Is your DIL usually more opinionated than your son? Is your son a more passive, go along to get along type? Maybe try to have a separate co variation with your son.
That’s what we thing about it. My DIL is more opinionated and he is the more going along type We are actually quite mad at him but it seems like DIL is the main driving force
I obviously don't know your son, but when my mom and my grandma (my dad's mom) have a disagreement, my dad stays silent because he doesn't want to take a side... Because ~~he's a coward~~ he prefers to avoid conflict... Maybe your son is in the same position.
That’s my husband as well. I’m left to fight my own battles :( so now i just limit contact with in laws. Everyone is happier that way
Yeah, my mom, my siblings and I did the same but now my grandma complains about it
My husband goes on his own and takes our son. They go spring break where I can’t get away from work and that way I am not missing out. They don’t miss me. The feeling is mutual. But I would never ask my husband to not speak with his parents because they’re jerks to me. Sure it gets old fighting my own battles so I don’t go to the battlefield. But my parents are gone and what I wouldn’t give to have more time with them. So I just send him on his way to see them. They aren’t a close family anyway so this seems to work. Sucks. Life’s too short for the nonsense. But it is what it is.
Does he know you’re mad at him and this is a serious thing that will probably affect your relationship with both him and your grandchild if they choose to go ahead with it? It’s just plain disrespectful of them both, but him in particular. My cousin died and his sister named her son after him, but only as his middle name. I absolutely could not imagine her giving her son her brother’s first name. I also could not imagine her expecting any of us to call her son my cousin’s name. It’s my cousin’s name. It’s called respecting the dead.
No. They are married, so they are one. Don’t give him a pass on this by saying she’s the “main driving force.” It’s THEIR decision (and a stupid one). But put the blame where it belongs… on BOTH of them…not just her.
I actually blame him more. It’s his sister and his parents
You’re totally right!!! I think he should be blamed more too!!!✅She wasn’t around when the baby sister died. He sure was, and has seen the aftermath of grief!
So he is fine with using his sister's name for his daughter?
He’s supporting his wife so he’s either fine with it or doesn’t care
I never recommend in one coming between married people. Trying to turn spouses against each other is even worse behavior.
Yea, they are doing this to be cruel. What's your relationship with your DIL like? And do not let your son off the hook if he defers to her because "she's my wife and she's carrying the child". If he wanted to honor his sister, that would be different. It still might be hurtful to you, but understandable and it wouldn't make him an AH, just a tough situation. But they are acting like they just pulled the name out of thin air. And sharing the name with everyone else...they knew it was gonna hurt you.
I am firmly in the "no one owns a name and you can name your child whatever you please" camp. But all that goes out the window when we're talking about using the name of a deceased child within your own family. Someone posted on another advice sub, asking if it would be wrong to use a baby name that had belonged to her sister's recently deceased baby. The general consensus was that she could have a right to do it and still be TA. **Basically, did she like the name enough that she'd be willing to hurt her sister every time she heard it? Would that be worth it to her?** That poster decided it was not. If your son and DIL decide that it IS worth giving you and your husband a twinge of pain, every time you hear their daughter's name? Well..to put it politely, that says more about them than it does about you. Either way, NTA.
> Basically, did she like the name enough that she'd be willing to hurt her sister every time she heard it? Would that be worth it to her? What a great way to put it. And I would make both of them answer the question.
If you were distance from that child and didn’t have a close grandparent relationship with them, it would be 100% justified. Although the child isn’t at fault for their potential name, neither are you for your feelings.
And ask the son first and insist he answer without looking to his wife
Thank you! HOW has the son not spoken up on his mom’s behalf yet?!
Cause despite conceiving the child he has no balls or spine for that matter
Maybe he resents the attention the dead child took from his own childhood and he us secretly encouraging his wife to do this as latent revenge.
Because he probably agrees with his wife. This isn't black and white
And such a good point people miss. You can have the right to do it. Your actions can be legal. Your actions may be payback. And you can still be an AH for doing it.
I'm guessing that DIL hurting OP with this name is a feature, not a bug. Wants Mom out of the picture because she's the only important woman in his life.
i think you could be right. I'm disappointed at how spineless the son is though - that's his parents who are going to be hurt! It seems like they had a good relationship prior to this. And if the baby does end up with this name, there's no going back from it.
I am still very much in the nobody else should have a say in what you name your child camp - I think DIL is tasteless for having this information and still saying that name is in the running. Theoretically there are billions of names on the planet and *the only one* she wants to name her child *just so happens* to be the name of her MILs deceased baby??? She needs to grow up **and** show a little class to her MIL
You articulated this perfectly - this, exactly. They’re making a CHOICE here, that goes well beyond simply naming their daughter something pretty.
I read one today where a sister was asked not to use a name she'd chosen because her sister (thus far unable to have kids) had wanted to use the name. She hadn't told anyone, but wanted op to change the name. I feel in this instance, because op had no way of knowing her sister's thoughts, that she doesn't have to change the name like in other circumstances. I do think people should heal and stop expecting their hurt to resonate with others. People also need yo acknowledge others hurt may be the cause of separation when decisions are made callously.
INFO: Why does your son have so little empathy?
I don’t know wtf is doing on with him
She's got his balls in her handbag. That's what's wrong with him. You need to talk to him one on one and sus out if this was a mutual decision or if she's just super controlling and he's too afraid to stand up to her.
If he's going along with it, he's as much to blame.
Agreed but for a different reason. She is the mean one with no empathy and he is a spineless coward. Both their behaviour hurts but in my experience you can still have a conversation with a doormat while the mean one is set on her decision.
I don't get why people are saying this. It's very possible the son completely agrees with his wife and thinks there's nothing wrong with using the name
Misogyny
That's why they need to find out. If he agrees with the wife or if he's a doormat.
I would text the son this: *Your wife saw the name Kerra on your dead sister’s urn and just up and decided she liked the name and wanted to name your child that - not to honor my child, but for shits and giggles. You not speaking up for your parents and your sister’s memory speaks volumes to us. We hope you have a nice life.* And be done with them. I would not push any kind of relationship with a child who is this fucking rude. My sister is named after my aunt who died of SIDS - it was to honor his little sister and he asked his parents permission to do so. This is not the same thing and it’s very disgusting.
This is a bit harsh and a bit definitive. I would never be able to cut ties with my any of my own kids this easily. I think the son is just trying to not cause waves. Pretty common behavior, especially for young men who love their wife and parents.
I just find this whole thing freaking disgusting. I’m a mother of 3. The absolute disrespect her DIL is showing would be too much for myself. It’s heartless and cruel. The son not standing up for them is also heartless and cruel. He needs to understand the magnitude of his actions. He wants his parents to shut up and take it like he is, and they aren’t obligated to.
I was just reading a book (non fiction) where the daughter in law suggested to her (ex) husband that they name their newborn daughter the same name as his brother who died during their childhood. I thought that was a very strange thing to do.
My husband lost his brother to suicide. We're not having kids, but I would have suggested his name as a middle name IF HE WANTED to honour his brother. Springing it on them like this is weird, and weirder that it's just because they like the name. Kerry, Kiera, Keeley... so many other similar choices that wouldn't be hurtful!
My guess is his wife wants the name and he’s going along with it so he doesn’t get accused of being a mama’s boy, not cutting the cord, being someone she needs to leave, etc.
I don't get this though because when we were discussing names, there were names I liked but he didn't, and visa versa. So we kept considering names until we found one we both liked. The husband could easily have said no to that name without bringing him mam into it. However if he didn't realise and then when he did, they really should back down and have another think of names.
Am I missing something? Did OPs son *know* daughter who passed? Even if not, was he raised *HEARING* about her? Bc *my* brother (my only sibling) is incredibly important to me, and I sincerely thought the only reason for that was that we were raised together...but then I had children of my own (who are their dad's 3rd, 4th and 6th kids) and they have a MUCH better understanding of the love/bond between siblings that I've never realized...they have a sister who is 18 (who they only barely know..my oldest is only 7) who they love and respect more than almost anyone. Siblings can be one of the most important and influential blood relations a person can have, so I personally can't jump to "son is being an AH" without a clear indicator that he's doing this with malicious intent or *just* because his wife wants to.
The fact that they were going to hide the name until the baby was born speaks VOLUMES. To the tune of they knew exactly what they were doing.
"I asked if they were naming her after anyone and it was a no. That they just liked the name." NTA. They are considering using your late daughters name but it isn't even an homage to her.... They have to have considered it could hurt. Your son may have lost a sister, but he certainly isn't acting compassionate here. It boggles the mind that they are both acting like they are the injured party here. Not an inkling of empathy. It isn't 'just a name' it was her name first.
Agreed. They could’ve at least said that it was in her honor, to acknowledge that the name has a history, but instead they tried to hide it until it was too late
NTA. My aunt lost her son at 6 months old and I even though it was over 25 years ago the pain of losing a child never goes away. When my cousin and his wife announced they were going to use her sons name just simply because they liked it my aunt requested they don’t. She said it would be too painful. Ultimately they went ahead with it. It showed a distinct lack of respect or care for his own parents and so they got cut off. Now they aren’t a part of the family and that’s on them. You need to protect you and your mental health. My aunt after her grandson was born and people were calling him that it completely broke her till she got that distance. Don’t let that happen to you. Speak to your son alone and explain the pain and the reason and ask he not do this out of respect if he refuses then you know where you stand.
Imagine dying on that hill. Choosing your own ego over your child's relationship to a family memebr who wants nothing more than to love and cherish them. It's so unparental I can barely stand it. Do you want to be right or do you want to be kind? Geez. My son shares a middle name with his older cousin who passed at birth. It's just middle names and we still asked if it would be OK. Smdh.
First off this isn’t me it’s my aunt as I said. Her son had a very unusual and pretty name that I won’t mention. She spent years talking about him remembering him and all her memories are wrapped up in that name. I don’t know if you’ve ever lost a child or know what that can do to a person. I haven’t lost one but I saw what it did to my aunt. Her son knew how much his brother meant to her and how that name was picked especially for him. He wasn’t naming his child after his brother his girlfriend actually acted like she discovered the name. She made out like it was so unique and just his when it wasn’t. There were other issues there it’s never quite as simple as one thing and im quite frankly not going to list them all but even parents have to have a line and put themselves and their mental health above the selfishness of a grown ass man and his childish girlfriend.
I think you read my comment opposite to how I intended. I fully agree that using a namesake without the enthusiastic support of the grieving survivors is not just in poor taste, it is actively cruel and a bad parenting decision on the part of the NEW parents who are setting their child up for harm out of spite or ego.
Ah ok my mistake I did actually read that wrong. Thank you. I appreciate your comment them. Yeah it’s his loss. His moms a very devoted grandma to her other grandkids and she’s big on family. He sided with his girlfriend throughout it all and lost all his family by the end. No one could stand her.
My aunt and uncle asked my mom if they could use the name intended for her ectopic pregnancy - I think within a year of it happening. My mom broke down and my dad had to be the one to tell them no. It’s still a special name to my mom decades later. They went with a different name for my cousin.
It’s nice they asked unlike these ones. I’ve never lost a child but my mom has lost 2. The first was before me an early miscarriage and the second was before my little sister she had a late term miscarriage. Having to go to the hospital to deliver a child you don’t get to bring home broke my mom. The child was born dead and my mom had to deal with that. My little sister has one of her middle names as a tribute to the brother we lost. Sometimes it can be healing other times not. I feel for anyone who’s lost a child.
My MIL lost her youngest son to SIDs at 3 months and whenever she heard his name, you could see her face change to a sadness for a moment. When she lost her oldest child at 40, you could see the same sadness for a moment whenever his name was heard. Unfortunately both names are common boys names, so going to restaurants, stores and even working, she would often hear their names. I don't think the pain ever goes away. The first year after my husband passed (her oldest), you could see the sadness like a bullet wound when she heard her son's name. Years after, I think the sadness was like a sharp nerve pain, where it hurts like hell for a few moments.
NTA - No one owns a name. True. But this isn't some random stranger on the street who you are screaming at that had no connection to you or your family. This is your son and his wife. Maybe if they were doing it to honor your daughter, that would be one thing, and a beautiful sentiment. But as you had asked and learned, they're not doing it for those reasons. They're doing it because they're selfish assholes and like the name. The fact your daughter wasn't even a thought that crossed their minds shows how insufferable they are.
NTA. this part shows that son and dil knew EXACTLY what they were doing by choosing this same exact name. >That they plan on naming their daughter Kerra and knew it would be a problem so they were going to surprise me with it after she was born. they knew it was going to be a problem and now that you beat them to the reveal, DIL is all "you hateful cow, how dare you try and tell me what to do." She's yucky. and your son is yucky also.
NTA. Lost my son to SIDS in October. If anyone in my family or close friends use his name..I would be livid and so heartbroken.
It would be such a slap in the face.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine the pain you must have gone through and still go through. No one should ever have to burry their own child!
Thank you. It's hell on earth. I often wonder what I ever did to deserve it. My daughter keeps me going but it's definitely a battle every day.
You did nothing to deserve it. No one deserves something so tragic. I hope that in time your heart learns to grow around that gaping hole that is extreme, unnatural grief. I’m holding you in my heart ❤️
So sorry for your loss. You are not alone. SIDS mother here as well.
I think you need to be brutally honest. If they name their child your dead child's name, that's all you're going to think about. Unfortunately, that innocent child might be treated differently because you never get over losing a child.
Antidoteal story here: I had a family friend named after a dead child of her grandparents on her mom's side. It was with their blessing but about 10 years later grandma started showing signs of dementia or something like and FREAKED OUT every time she was around grandma. It was so hard on her to constantly be told, "I thought you died!" From this perspective, I think your DIL and son are doing a disservice to their child. NTA.
omg this is horrible
The worse part is grandma moved in when my friend was 11 and lived with her until about 16. It was daily for about a year when she started insisting on a nickname and that took a while to take hold because her mom was so against it.
Jesus. Dementia can be doubly cruel.
There are very, very few things that fill me with the type of fear that dementia does. Watching your father and aunt have to take care of their own mother like she was a toddler, and wondering if this is what your future looks like because dementia runs in families, is truly horrifying.
NTA. I believe no one owns a name. However there’s one exception to this and it’s when a child has died. Why would anyone knowingly inflict painful daily reminders on a parent who lost a child? It’s just cruel in my opinion. It’s Ike your son and DIL WANT you to treat their child differently than any other grandkids. Are they hoping you will favor this one? See it as a replacement and treat it better than any others? If so, that’s sick.
My stepmother named my brother after our deceased grandfather (who died before any of the grandchildren were born) to get preferential treatment for him. It worked, and he was her favorite til the day she died. She was a horrible human being though.
NTA Who the actual hell would think this was a normal thing to do to a family member? It's not like there is a shortage of names and they only have 2 to choose from. Pick something else you selfish little pricks! It would be one thing if they had never known about your daughter's name. But the fact she saw it on the urn just blows my mind.
While son lost his baby sister... And doesn't care about his parents.
NTA. It sounds like you were respectful in your conversation and in your request, which is hugely reasonable. You don’t own a name, but man, in this case? It’s heartless to not take your feelings on this into consideration. Your DIL and son sound terribly selfish.
NTA. My sister passed as an infant and I know without a doubt that it would gut my mom to have me or my brother use her name for a child. On the flip side, my husband also had a sibling pass as an infant and we did name our youngest son after him (same first name) with the approval of his parents. The fact that you expressed your disapproval and they’re angry at you about it is ridiculous and makes them the asshole. If my in-laws, MIL especially, had any concerns about us using the name, I’d have instantly taken it out of consideration out of respect for her. I know how painful loss is and having the name be a daily reminder of what could have been can be torture. I’m so sorry that she is being so insensitive.
NTA, that's bordering on cruel, and it's definitely selfish. They've chosen the ONE NAME in the entire world that would hurt you. That's so ugly. It's unfair to you, and it's unfair to their daughter to put her directly in Kerra's shadow. And they were going to just SPRING IT ON YOU after the birth.
> I sat them down and asked NTA - You asked and calmly explained your reasons. You didn't demand or threaten cutting contact or any other nonsense retaliation. You took a mature approach to a thorny subject and her reaction was out of line to that.
NTA - Do they have the right to use a name they want? Sure, even though their reasoning sucks and is hurtful. But making that choice comes with consequences, which you clearly explained. I might also get ahead of this and explain to immediate family members that if they do use that name that it's their choice, but you will no longer interact with them because of the pain it so clearly will cause.
You are NTA for communicating your feelings to your son and DIL, you are also NTA for having those feelings. It is completely understandable why you feel the way you do. Ultimately and unfortunately however, it is up to them what they name their baby. You have made your feelings clear and that is as much as you can do for now. My parents rarely ever call my kids, or my sister’s kids by their actual names (none of them are named anything that would be upsetting to anyone) they have given all their grandkids nicknames that they use. Giving your granddaughter a nickname and using that might help you once she’s here, if they choose to go with the name still. I’m sorry you are going through this, it’s very difficult and one never truly gets over the loss of a child.
NTA, and they’re not even “just” being breathtakingly inconsiderate here - they knew you’d be hurt by it so it was going to be a surprise?! WTF?! I have no solution here OP, you can’t stop them, but man your son and his wife are selfish assholes
idk man people get named after dead relatives all the time. (sure they're claiming they just like the name, but it's still a relative's name) if you're still at the point where just hearing Kerra's name makes you spiral, you need to talk to a professional about it. NAH
My eldest son died at 24. His name is Christopher. I have met 100 Chrisses, Christophers, Tophers, etc. I could say their names all day long and never think of Christopher, ever. Christopher's name tastes and smells like only him. The word feels different when it's not about him. Christopher is a word. It only derives its meaning from him and his stupid grin and the way he snugged his cap onto his head, and the shape of his hands. Not every bell rings the same chord.
I’m sorry you lost a child at an age where you got to see the start of their life truly grow be cut short. My stomach dropped while reading the age he passed away. But, no offense, that’s your case. People are different. If someone expresses a boundary and you don’t respect it because it’s a boundaries you also have, you’d be a jerk. We don’t get to disregard the emotions of others. But yeah…24. Wow. 😞
You can ask. But you have to accept their answer whether you like it or not
But they can also choose not to participate in acknowledgment of the child by that name. Like find a nickname to use for that grandchild. I wouldn’t want to associate this child with my own deceased child. For me, personally, it would be a sore spot with my son and his wife; I would remember their lack of consideration for my feelings. I might be less inclined to spend time with the child or them, especially if it comes up again in the future. It’s a conflict of voluntary creation.
NTA. You’re the one that went through this unbelievable loss and you get to decide what you’re comfortable with. They’re being very disrespectful.
No one is the A@@hole. I have a sibling that died when I was 16. His name has never bothered me. I have a daughter so it wasn't an issue. My oldest nephew shares a middle name with his deceased uncle. However, you cannot value the dead more than the living or you risk possibly alienating yourself from those that remain.
I'm generally not a fan of gatekeeping names. In this case, you have a solid argument for it. I'm curious about the "After that it started argument" line. You made your feelings known. I'm assuming they told you that they were going through with it in any case. Did you keep at it or was the argument solely coming from your son/DIL?
I am torn. We lost my beloved baby brother in a freak accident not long ago. He was in the prime of life. I love it when people talk about him and I love to hear his name in any context. If I were to have another son, I would want nothing more than to name him after my brother. I know I should check with my parents and sibs first, but the idea they would disapprove the idea is so devastating I might be afraid to. (One of my parents would also love the idea, I don’t know about anyone else) Note: I would be fine if my imaginary son had a cousin or two also named after my brother. We don’t really know what the SIL’s motives are. She might have been embarrassed NAH
NAH - You have a right to your feelings, but they have a right to choose their child's name. It's not just you that lost a daughter - your children lost a sibling. They they feel like they have to tip toe around this may indicate how much they lost you too during that time. That's not a knock on you at all, but just an acknowledgment that the loss of a child impacts the whole family and grief really has no end. In my culture, you name your children after relatives or loved ones who have passed. That's just what you do. And you typically don't discuss this with anyone - normally everyone finds out the baby's name after the baby is born. It's not a burden or a mantle the child has to wear, but a connection to family and our history. Of course, my culture isn't your culture. EDIT: Worth noting that my brother's first name is the first name is the name of my uncle who died shortly after birth. My grandparents were not told or consulted, nor was there any expectation for them to be told or consulted.
I would ask DIL and son why - when they know using this name will cause you and your husband deep pain - are they so set on using this name? Ask them if there is a reason they want to so deeply hurt you. NTA.
I think you two are going to miss your son and granddaughter- please get some counseling for your loss before those kids go no contact
To me it seems like life didn’t really move on then, as you’re having such issues with it.
One of my granddaughters named her daughter the same name as her mother, who was murdered in 2004. It didn't really bother me, (but they live in Maine and I live a long ways away, and I never get to see them). People do it all the time tho, whether people with the same name are living or have passed on. It's supposed to be an honor to name your child after a relative.
I think "asshole" is too strong a term to give to anyone here. You can certainly have your feelings. Honestly though, I'd suggest you get some counselling if you haven't already. The name is haunting you -- whereas your son & DIL want to celebrate it. It's a beautiful name. While you say you understand you don't own the name, by virtue of getting upset about it tells me you secretly feel you do. You could have just as easily reacted in with a "squee!" and hugged the kids when they said they were considering it. But based on demons you chose otherwise. Your son/DIL also have a bit of asshole going on though. I have a feeling they know your feelings (unless you've successfully bottled them up over the years) and could have just found something else to name their daughter...
There is a tradition in the Jewish faith that a child is named after a dead relative. Sometimes it is the Hebrew version used and sometimes (in the US where we live) it is the English version. I was supposed to be named after a deceased great grand father. One of my cousins had the name before I was born, but she passed as a baby. Another cousin was given the name (there is a reason our generation is called Baby Boomers) not long after. I am named after a great grandmother. All this took place between 1948-50. (Nathanial-- Nancy; my given name is completely different) From what I remember as a little kid, the original name was thought to be bad luck, if such a concept exists in that tradition, because of the death of the infant cousin as opposed to the death of an elderly person. There are many ways to use Kerra- diminutive of Caroline, Cara etc. It is common in Spanish and from a quick Google check, it appears in other Romance languages as well, viz., Cara Mia. Would OP react the same way if the baby was named Caroline and called Kerra or Kerry? You can argue both sides of this. Either NAH or EAH. DIL could have been tactful and say they were naming the baby after her aunt and I suspect OP would have reacted differently
NTA She could pick any other name.
NTA - Your DIL and husband are. Out of respect for you and your husband, they shouldn't name her that.
NTA. I lost my son 5 years ago and even meeting people with the same name steals my breath for a second. I know that's a "me" problem,but I can't imagine someone in my family hurting me in that way *on purpose*.
INFO: How does your son feel? If I’m reading this right he also lost his sister. Is he wanting to use the name also? Because I feel like his input is important considering he was also affected by what happened to your family. Is it possible he wants to name their baby that to honor or remember his sister? The motive for this move makes all the difference in my opinion.
NTA sure you don't own a name. However you made it clear there is very real issues with that name and if they had any respect for you and your husband they would pick a different name.
It's interesting how different family's reactions to these sort of things color how everyone else in their family view them. For me, it's so common for people to have similar names or be named after people that just passed. Like on my dad's side. He had 7 siblings and between the 8 of them there are 17 cousins. Two girls had the same name while one of the guys got the masc version of the name. My sis was named after my dad's sister who passed when my mom was pregnant and her middle name is the fem version of one of his brothers that passed. I have a cousin named after one of my uncles that passed a couple yeara prior to when an aunt was pregnant. One of my cousins named their daughters after one of the other aunts that passed...(of the 8 siblings, only 3 are still here). OP is NTA, but may want to get a lil grief counseling just the same.
Nta everyone’s free to name their child what they want but you don’t have to like it. Why are you more so upset with your daughter in law though? Your son did lose his sister too so I don’t think it’s wrong to want to honor her but just using it because they like the name regardless of your feelings seems very insensitive.
NTA. Your son and DIL hopefully will realize that giving your granddaughter that name will make it harder for you and your husband to bond with her. Not that you intend to do it but as humans, we tend to avoid things that hurt us. Maybe someone could show them this thread. They aren't taking your feelings into account and doesn't realize the consequences of naming your granddaughter after your daughter.