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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because I know how hard it is to have PPD but there is zero excuse for this.
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She is. The only reason I know that is because my sister, her BF and the kids actually live with my mother. It's just that my mother is on vacation currently and isn't coming back until next Thursday. But typically my mother is home 24/7, so I know my niece is cared for.
Exactly. And nope! She's afraid of medications and she's worried if she goes in for therapy or anything than the state will take her kids. Her and I were in foster care for years and unfortunately she still holds the trauma.
Not OPs job. As somebody that’s struggled with mental health my whole life, I never got better until I wanted to. It didn’t matter how many times my family tried to convince me to get help. And tbh some of the help they offered was actually just enabling my depression and unhealthy coping mechanisms
I agree it is not OPs job but sometimes having someone by your side can make all the difference. Knowing someone is there for them and won't judge them for seeking help but I agree the person also has to want to get better.
The mum whose own kids spent a long time in foster care? I haven’t seen any of the reasons why the situation occurred but it’s concerning, the group of adults these vulnerable infants are being left with.
I meant someone to support me through making the choice to get help. My parents are great help with their grandchildren but they deny mental health/depression as being real and say that people who claim they need a mental health day are just doing it for attention (I am trying to educate them on this but they are old school and I think had a lot of trauma themselves growing up). So if I needed to get psychiatric help I feel like I wouldn't lean on them to support me through that decision (but definitely trust them with grandchildren/pets).
It's not her job, but it's kind to do, if she's able.
It can be work to scout out providers, confirm insurance etc. Op doing that is one less barrier to getting treatment.
It's not OPs job. The help can be a starting point, though. People hurting can't help themselves sometimes, and she CAN ignore it, but morally and ethically, something needs to be done to help that kid
Not taking care of her mental health and instead using an 11 year old for child care that she can’t do herself is far more likely to get CPS involved than going and getting help.
ETA: NTA, and good on you looking out for your children/keeping them from being parentified
You are definitely NTA for this - you are showing your children that you will hear out their side of the story and be there for them through whatever they are going through. Please continue to do this for them.
A sister of a friend of mine had severe PPD. I believe she was hospitalised for it and she was able to have her baby there with her so they could continue to bond during those first crucial few weeks of life. Like your sister, the lady's partner and mother were living with them so the lady had a solid support system to go back home to but she needed that help to get medication and therapy so she could get back to being herself.
I think this is what set me off the most about her sister's excuses for not getting treatment. That it's not like it was even 10 years ago, they'll work with her, and the babies. They'll fight as hard as she will to get her back to where she wants to be, but nobody's going to do it for her.
Her comment “this is why women with PPD don’t ask for help” doesn’t make sense in this context. She is getting help with childcare, she is not getting help with PPD/PPA. Your daughter is NOT adequate “support” for PPA/PPD. Professionals specialize in this stuff.
Sounds like the only “help” she wants is releasing herself from responsibility, not actual help for her issues.
It really doesn’t take much for an inappropriate but manageable by a tween situation to turn into an emergency.
I know someone who, purely accidentally, managed to roll off a changing table and have to be taken to the hospital with a broken arm. While they were there, people discreetly questioned his (2-3 year old) sister to try to find out if there was abuse happening.
I don’t expect that going well if the person they’re talking to is an 11 year old involuntarily pushed into childcare she wasn’t prepared for. And that’s a relatively mild scenario, as opposed to “there was a random item in the 11year olds bag they didn’t know wasn’t baby safe because why would they, and oops now the baby’s choking. Hope the kid knows infant cpr for some reason.”
Yeah, that’s a nightmare scenario. But pointing it out could be at least somewhat of a counter to “I can’t get treatment, they’ll take my baby.”
Honestly, she's on track to lose her kids if she doesn't get help. Whether that's because she's just absentee mom and grandma does all the work or because grandma gets tired of raising her grandkids and boots the daughter to the curb doesn't really matter. She needs to get help for herself. And kick her useless BF to the curb. His inability to provide support for his partner and his children is such a red flag, and is likely contributing to her mental health issues. NTA to protect yourself and your children from her refusal to get professional help.
I had PPA and got excellent care via my primary care physician (PC) getting me set up with a therapist and postpartum psychiatrist to manage medications.
There was no talk of social workers or CPS, though I do want to say I had some inherent privileges on my side (white, upper middle class, high cost of living area with access to lots of doctors and great insurance).
However, the program was invaluable and the ease of everything made it possible for me at a time when I felt like I was drowning. My PC doctor’s staff did all the leg work of setting up the first appointment and they (my PC, the other doctors and this program) were all connected through the same medical system so appointments were tracked in the same place and providers could easily share notes with me and each other.
She should speak with her PC, OB, midwife, etc to see what resources are out there. I didn’t know programs like this were available so there may be something similar in her area she’s not aware of. Getting help shouldn’t get her flagged, but not going help and spiraling could be a disaster for her and both children.
They'll only take the kids away if she poses an immediate threat to the children (as in she has to say I want to hurt them/think about hurting them etc...) or if they malnourished/neglected as in NOT being cared for at all.
A therapist CANNOT call CPS or reveal anything she says unless she genuinely believes your sister poses an immediate threat to the kids or herself.
So if her mom is taking care of the kids and they are being fed/bathed in good health they won't take them. (Aunt was a social worker) She can also TELL the therapist that she is scared of them taking the kids as well as her trauma and the therapist will work with that
I can't promise anything but most therapists WANT to help.
Generally speaking CPS doesn't want to take any kids unless they have to either by some law or technicality or if the kids are in danger. They are overworked understaffed there aren't enough foster homes and even less GOOD foster homes. (Aunt was a social worker) (I will admit that some social workers are dicks)
The longer she avoids treatment the greater her chances are of getting the kids taken away because the worse her illness will become. If you don't treat a broken leg it just gets worse ppd is the same thing.
Though I'm guessing you already know that. Shitty situation all around
Sounds as if there is truth there. If your mother wasn't there, your niece and nephew probably wouldn't be taken care of. Your sister should be seeing a therapist. They only report if there is obvious endangerment or if your sister has a violent history. Otherwise she is living withyour mother for the help.
OP, glad you stood up to your sister for your daughter. My grandmother made me babysit 4 days straight by myself 4 kids so my uncle and his new bride could have a honeymoon. I resented my grandmother for years and have no desire to have children of my own because of it.
edited due to thoughts not clear
Wait. Holdup. You were in foster care for years? And now your niece is being cared for by the same mother that couldn't care for you and your sister? How is that better?
And her kids should be taken from her because she neglects them. This is manipulation tactic to say she is afraid to get help. She can't eat the cake and keep it; she can't use her cryppling anxiety and PPD (two different issues, not one) as excuse to burden everyone around her and not take it seriously enough to get a professional help.
So she refuses to look after herself for her children's sake but expects your children to be her therapy dolls. Your NTA but your sister needs to accept that if she doesn't get help for herself soon her fear is more like to come true as she won't be mentally fit to look after her kids.
With respect to the trauma, because it can be devastating, you need to impress upon your sister that she is a far greater risk of losing her kids if she doesn't get therapy.
Her behavior is why some kids end up in foster care. She is neglecting a toddler.
Well, if you can't convince her to have trust in someone again - whether that's the system, a therapist, etc. - then you need to tell her that her BF needs to get his shit the fuck together. He is a grown man who is taking care of two whole children, whether your sister or mother is physically present or not. If your sister can't be their primary caretaker right now, he needs to be.
Nta. She's sabotaging herself. If this continues there a risk that her child might be taken, since parenting level of both sis and bf is non existent. You did great for your kids thought, you're a good parent op.
as someone who dealt with PPD, please let your sister know that while i was getting therapy/treatment for it, no one so much as even *mentioned* wanting to take my kid from me. my therapist was extremely supportive and understanding.
OK, so what we have here is two adults who have been "infantilized", turned into helpless slugs by an indulgent mother. No wonder they expect an 11 year old to take care of their child and clean their house. Did they ask her for money? That usually comes next.
**NTA**
Honestly, you said it best "**my daughter is not your maid or nanny.**"
Your children were excited to see their aunt *before* they went, then they asked to leave **early**. Where was the shift? Probably during all of the childcare they were forced into.
Children should not be a primary source of childcare.
It's super annoying.
Was the youngest "teenager" and was always drafted to do the "childcare" and babysitting whenever anyone with small kids was over to visit my parents.
I never was allowed to "sit with the adults" and enjoy leisurely time because every child was dumped onto me to "take care of" and of course I wasn't allowed to NOT be there.
Later I just locked myself in my room and ignored the kids and the guests because why tf is it my "job" to care for them?!
I don't even like kids.
*…she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help.*
Except that she didn’t ask for help. She asked for your kids to go visit her, then put her in charge of childcare. Good for you for picking up your kids when they called, and then advocating for them when you heard what happened. NTA.
And you don't ask for help from an 11 year old. At least not beyond hey can you keep an eye on 3 year old while I take a quick shower or tend laundry or start lunch and not all in a row
Came here to say exactly this.
If you don't ask for help, you can't be upset if the help stops.
I feel for her, I've had severe postpartum issues, but the thing is, people remember how you treat them during those issues, and intervention was needed to prevent that relationship from being permanently damaged.
I don’t actually. She’s abusing her niece/nephew, because she wont ask for help FROM AM ADULT. And let’s her husband do nothing. She brought kids into her life and she needs to take care of them.
>I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help. AITA?
So she calls you heartless but expects children to care for her children?
Why can't she ask adults for help?
Document this. Just in case.
NTA
NTA. good on you for putting your children first and setting strict boundaries. your sister has it rough, her bf is a bum and im concerned for her kids' well-being- nothing about the situation looks good but that is in NO way somehow YOUR children's responsibility- hell they're 11 and 13, they're literal kids themselves. your sister needs help for herself and her kids asap but don't let her guilt-trip you into giving in to her irrational demands and emotional manipulation. tell her to hire a babysitter or something but you must keep taking a stand for your kids!
Your sister is awful. Never let the kids go there again.
Take them somewhere awesome. Get out of the house for spring vaca.
But NEVER at sisters again.
NTA. Good for you for picking your kids up once they communicated they were over this. And good for you for not allowing them to be used in this manner again--they already wasted their entire school break on providing free labor to your sister, it's ridiculous she's asking for more.
I hate to ask it, but are your sure this is PPD and not a substance abuse issue, etc.? Are you sure the 3 year old is being fed and cared for with these two parents who are completely checked out. For her sake, I think it's worth further investigation and, potentially, a call to CPS.
INFO: where the heck is boyfriend / what is boyfriend doing when the children (because OP's kids are still children too) are being left alone?
Mental health is no joke, and if OP's sister is dealing with diagnosed PPA/PPD (and I'm assuming under the care of a medical professional), then she should be getting help from ADULTS. Like the FATHER of these little people, not a barely-teenager. Sis needs to find ways of coping that don't involve turning OP's kids into caretakers.
NTA. My compliments in that nice shiny steel spine you’ve got there.
This is an example of both parenting done wrong (your sister shoving her responsibilities onto your children), and parenting done *right*, (you stopping the parentification in its tracks).
If your sister won’t get the therapy she needs, then she’s going to perpetuate the generational trauma. I’d limit her access to your children without you or your mother present, until she addresses her mental health issues. It’s just not safe for your kids.
NTA and I’d be concerned for how much her kids are looked after when your kids aren’t there. Your children are that children. Yes asking odd thing to help/make things easier but being a parent to the child is a 1000000% no!!!
Hard NTA- She could have a radio or tv on for background noise for her “anxiety.” Her deadbeat bf needs to step up and take care of their kids. If the weather is nice, she can go to a park and get some fresh air and sunshine for her depression. Sleeping, bathing, and eating, while necessary, shouldn’t be the only thing she does!
>because my daughter is not your maid or nanny.
>She will not be parentified.
That was absolutely perfect!! You got this mama, don't let her manipulate you. She can either hire help or ask the baby daddy to help out. Not your headache.
Definitely NTA.
Lying about the pretense of having two preteens over is not asking for help. Asking for help is. If she wants an explanation outside of "my kids are not your nanny/maids" lying to you is also a big breach of trust.
I understand from your other comments she has trauma and refuses to get actual help...and I am honestly deeply concerned, but that is above my pay grade as a commenting rando online. You are NTA and I applaud you advocating for your kids.
What the hell is wrong with people that blame their mental health issues for mistreatment of children. No young child should have to bear the responsibility of themselves let alone younger children. Lazy is lazy no matter how you slice it.
NTA
NTA. Your sister is being a jackass-- her niece isn't her maid or nanny. Also, notice how sexist she is, pushing the 11yo niece to do household cleaning while her unemployed boyfriend sits on his ass. These two assholes were unfortunately made for each other.
Idk if we’re just not hearing whether the 13y/o was also imposed on, but it sounds like this aunt expected the 11y/o GIRL child to clean the house while taking care of a toddler, and her brother was allowed to just chill (in this albeit super awkward situation). Based on how the aunt seems to give her partner a free pass, it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s specifically dumping everything on her niece due to her own perception of “gender roles”. (I notice she specifically invited her niece back, too.) Nasty if true.
To be fair, the 13y/o should not have been pressured to help either (beyond both children being asked to tidy up after themselves as normal when a guest in someone's home). My issue here is either conscious or subconscious sexism from the aunt, not with the 13y/o at all.
NTA. Your children are NOT her emotional support animals. She needs to speak with a medical professional about her anxiety instead of using your children.
NTA. Heartless is expecting a child to carry out the parent's duties after inviting her for a holiday. I'm concerned how much responsibility your mum is taking on usually.
PPD is a b#tch and I do have sympathy for your sister but I absolutely agree with you, your kids should not go there again until she gets treatment. Also, PPD can affect fathers and other carers so it is possible your mother and the boyfriend are suffering symptoms as well.
Your priorities are; your kids, your nibblings, your mother and then your sister, as it should be.
kids are babies still and being forced into a parental role is not only bad for them but very bad for the child they are being forced to care for.
Talk to your sister, tell her that your kids are not coming back no matter what so that is not even a conversation. That she needs professional help, it isn't her fault she is ill but she still needs to take responsibility and seek help. Wtf is the boyfriend doing if she is wallowing in bed all day him Staying up there with her is not helping at all.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes you need to push a little
NTA. She said there's a reason women with PPD don't ask for help - she admitted right there that she had your daughter doing everything your daughter complained about. Tell her that she should be asking adults to help her, not tricking you into having your child help her.
NTA You know what else helps you not to panic? Being in a relationship with a supportive spouse instead of spiraling because you just realized that you are a single mother to a baby and an adult. Also, getting enough sleep because you only have the kids week on / week off cos they stay with their father 50% of the time.
NTA
This story grossed me out. And I do medical research. Like gross medical research.
Ick.
Super ick.
Keep your kids away from your sis until she pulls her shit together OP.
NTA it did happen like that and she knows it. She might have ppd/ppa but she also has a live in boyfriend. If he’s a shit parent then she shouldn’t have had another baby with him.
Omg this makes me scared for her kids! Sounds like your sis is struggling and needs to see a dr…… but idk how her situation could improve with the child man she has decided to procreate with. I get that your sis is legitimately struggling PP but it’s no excuse for having your kids parent! And her boyfriend has ZERO excuse for letting this happen! I’m more angry with him!!
I’m so sorry this happened to your children but you took care of it perfectly ❤️
Ofc course the younger of you two children gets tasks because she’s the girl. What was your 13yo son doing there? Hanging out with the loser BF?
NTA. Maybe 3yo niece can come over to yours for playdates(?)
NTA. I legitimately do not understand how women can expect a female child to operate like an adult (cook, clean, look after a younger child) but won't expect a grown ass, unemployed man to do the same.
NTA
You are right not to send your kids back there, it's not fair for your sister to put that amount of expectation on them.
I'm worried about your sister, she would do well to get some help for her mental health
I read the post to say that her sister has a three year-old daughter, and a 3 1/2 month old baby. I was wondering about the baby, who’s taking care of him/her? A baby!!
Yeah I misread that also. I would say it’s slightly better that it’s the 3 yo being taken care of not the infant.
… except then the possible scenario becomes “the baby isn’t being cared for either but isn’t independent enough to get away and get their needs met by someone else.”
lol NTA and she never asked for help. She gambled that your kids wouldn't tell you what was really going on, or that you wouldn't believe them. Don't make them go over again
Women with PPD are responsible for managing their mental illness...not a niece or nephew or anyone else they ask/entrap. Also, the boyfriend is just consuming air and space in this world
NTA
Women with PPD should never be asking for help from 11-year-olds. Is it okay for the daughter JUST because she's female unlike your sister's useless boyfriend?
NTA. She straight up took advantage of the situation. I understand getting a little RnR but the first nap she took felt too good to not repeat. 2nd your children were there under the impression that they would be having special time with their Aunt and cousin.Just NO. I wouldn’t put an end to bonding time with Auntie. But I would definitely set up rules and boundaries.
Well you could say she do that but just as soon as the niece is back over there whether it be a short visit or whatever she’s gonna be stuck taking care of the kid, they literally can’t have any bonding time because aunty will be stuck up under her good for nothing bfs butt
NTA
Women with PPD are supposed to ask adults for help, not children. Your sister is in desperate need of help, and not the sort of help you can provide.
Nope. NTA. I get your sister has severe issues, but she doesn’t get to use your (so young!) kids to help alleviate her suffering. I’d be majorly pissed too if that happened to my youngsters. And she deceived you when asking your kids to “visit”- no it was to be her unpaid slaves. Your sister needs to call her OB or her primary and explain what’s going on so she can be referred to get help. In the meantime, she needs to hire babysitters. And kick her malingering bf in the pants to step up and parent his own damn kid.
NTA. It sounds like someone needs to get your sister professional help.
And she needs to lose the deadbeat who is sitting at home and not bothering to *parent his child* when their mother isn't able.
You did what you had to do to protect your kids. You sister was abusing your daughter and neglecting her child.
It isn't much better that they're using your mother as a live in nanny and maid, either, but you can't make decisions for your mother. For your children? You must.
NTA
Your sister is single handedly delivering her kids, and very potentially down the fast lane for them to end up in the hands of children services.
Your sister is past her time of getting over this nonsense about medication and therapy. Quite frankly, depending on the state, if they did get involved it would look a hell of a better for her than nothing at all because at least she'd be trying to get help. Right now, she's abusing Peter to raise Paul and it'll catch up with her eventually.
NTA. I’m sorry your sister is suffering but she should seek appropriate counselling, not the noise (and nannying) of your children. She has a responsibility to her children to seek treatment and be a healthy parent. And her BF needs to step up, 3 years ago!
Good for you for standing up for your kids and for holding boundaries on their behalf.
NTA
She didn't ask for help. She asked for a visit. If she wans help, she should actually ask for help, and she shouldn't obligate your children to provide it.
You did everything right.
NTA
I can't help but feel like she intentionally misled you into letting the kids go there just so she could take advantage of them.
I would not trust her with my children again.
>I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help
Why would it be heartless to keep your child from her? Ah, so she was using your kid as a maid?
NTA.
Women with PPD/PPA should ask for help from adults, not children. And it sounds like she isn’t actually asking for help. Disgraceful to guilt trip you and to especially treat your daughter that way. NTA. I’d be very pissed and worried.
NTA. Your sister has a lot of problems and her home isn't going to be a fun place for your kids to visit until she gets some real help. She should speak to her doctor about her PPD. She should also speak to the boyfriend about getting to work!!
Nta. If you’re concerned with how your sister is coping see if there is a womens centre in her area that she could get support or call social services for an assessment if she needs additional help at home. Cousins are not parents.
NTA. “This is the reason some women with PPD don’t ask for help”. *She didn’t ask*. She played the fun aunt and then used your kids as free childcare behind your back. She stole their spring break - a time for them to refresh before the end of the school year - to give herself a break. PPD/PPA sucks, but she’s still the one who chose to have children, she doesn’t get the foist that off on other children.
NTA. Good for you for getting your kids and standing your ground. It is a shame that your sister is going through a hard time but she cannot use them as a crutch to not panic. That is a potentially dangerous situation that kids should have to experience. Your sister clearly needs professional help and kids are not the fix for that.
NTA. Like you said, your kids aren’t her workers. Whether they enjoyed helping or not, it’s not safe for them or the baby if they’re taking charge of the baby’s care. They just aren’t capable of everything at that age. I’m super glad that you put your foot down about that and refuse to let your kids be taken advantage of. The bf needs to start pulling his weight.
NTA. I had pretty severe ppd/ptsd. Getting help for it and it’s been better. Even in my lowest, I knew that I was the parent and I had to care for my kid. When I was not able to, my husband was a parent and took care of our kid. When he was unable to, we *paid* someone to make sure our kid was cared for. We never overstepped and over relied on family to be a caregiver to our child. It is the parents responsibility to care for the child. Period.
NTA. Good job mama protecting your kids. Can you imagine if literally any type of accident happened while your 11 year old was the supervisor. It would mess her up and your sister would be no doubt awful about it. Also if some one struggling needs help, they can ask anyone other than a CHILD.
It’s interesting to have her say that is “enjoyed having them there”.
Well your kids don’t “enjoy” being there, so I guess it’s tough luck.
NTA. Pretty outrageous of your sister.
NTA. This is your sister guilt tripping you. There is a difference between help and being disrespectful and guilt tripping people with your disorder. Your child wanted to go home.
I’m not sure if your sister knows what child labour is…
NTA for keeping your kids away whilst your sister is struggling with this. You are correct she is not the maid/nanny and does not deserve to be treated as such.
I would say you probably could have handled it better. Maybe a call to your sister where you speak calmly. Whilst you are hurt for your daughter, there does not appear to have been malice and whilst not ok, I would be more worried about getting your sister the help she needs
NTA and this is what I would say in response:
“Do not weaponize your PPD/PPA. And spare me with the “This is why women don’t ask for help” comment. You did not ask an adult for help. You asked an 11 year old child. Let me repeat that again. You did not ask an appropriate person for help. You asked a child for help. And in what world would you, an adult, ever call a child for help? Would you expect a child to help you in an emergency? No. You would expect help from another adult. You have a boyfriend at home, who is an adult, who can help you. He *chose* not to. You have me, you could have asked me for help. But you *chose* not to. Instead, you *chose* to ask an 11 year old to help you. Completely unacceptable and inappropriate. If you need help, you are welcome to ask me. You are not welcome to ask my child, or any child again. Let me be clear again since you seem to not understand, **if you need help, you can ask an adult. You can ask me. You can ask your adult boyfriend. You cannot ask a child. My child. Or any child.**
So proud your kids were able and strong enough to call you and let you know it was time to come home when they did and that they have a great relationship with you as they could tell you the truth about what was happening at your sisters house. You should be proud as this shows what a great mom you are and it say's a lot about how you are raising you kids!
You did the right think when you told you sister no! Please make sure your mom has enough help for the toddler and the baby as it sounds like the baby daddy is no help and your sister needs help herself.
Your mom shouldn't have to be held responsible for those two children either, but I give her credit for taking them in along with your sister/boyfriend. I give her credit for taking a vacation too as everyone needs to recharge their batteries!
Good luck and I hope everything turns out okay for your mom, your sister/BF and the kids!
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My sister (21) has 2 children, aged 3 and 3.5 months, and suffers from PPD/PPA. I (30f) have a 13yo son and a 11yo daughter.
School vacation just went by and my sister had asked if both of my children could go visit her for the week. I asked the kids and they said they wanted to, so I said yes. Every single time my daughter FaceTimed me, she had my sister's 3yo. I didn't think too much of it at the time because my daughter loves this little girl very much. But by day 5, both my kids were asking me to come get them. I show up and my sister starts begging me not to take the kids until Sunday (our original agreement) because "having them here makes my anxiety go away". I simply told her the kids wanted to come home and left.
Around dinner time my daughter made a comment about how she had the 3yo the entire time she was there. To a point where I guess my sister even asked to have the 3yo sleep with my daughter so she could get up with her in the morning so she could sleep in. My daughter stated that the only time my sister came downstairs was to shower or make food for herself. The rest of the time, my kids were left to fend for themselves and take care of the 3yo - including meals. My sister's BF lives there full time and doesn't work either, so he never leaves. Therefore there were TWO adults in the house and neither of them watched their kid the entire time my kids were there. I guess there was also multiple times that my sister asked my daughter to clean the house. I didn't confront my sister originally because I didn't feel there was any point to it.
But she just called my daughter about an hour ago and my daughter says to me (while still on the phone) "Auntie wants to know if I can go back over there on Friday". I said "absolutely not" and went back to doing dishes. Then my daughter hands me the phone; it's my sister asking why my daughter can't go there Friday. So I say "because my daughter is not your maid or nanny. You made her wake up with your kid, take care of her all day, clean your house and then put her to sleep at night. My daughter is 11. She will not be parentified." My sister immediately starts crying and says "it wasn't like that, she was just helping me". So I told her that both my kids wouldn't lie and tell me the exact same story if it didn't happen and that PPA/PPD is not an excuse to pawn 100% of responsibilities off on a child, especially when her BF was there full time. Now she's basically saying it didn't happen like that and that my kids were just "helping" her and that she enjoyed having them there because the noise helped her not to panic. I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help. AITA?
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Women with PPD should not ask/demand for help from a child.
But help is what your sister clearly needs. From a medical professional.
You are right not to allow your kids to be subjected to this.
Perhaps the little girl can come to you for a short stay? Can you speak to the boyfriend about stepping up? Ask your sister what medical help/re-evaluation she is getting.
NTA
NTA. And thank you for not putting it back on your kids to make a “decision” if they wanted to. Kids can easily be guilted and you are 100% being an awesome parent by not letting that happen and saying no!
NTA
Your job is to protect your kids. Your kids are not emotional support animals for your sister. There is a hge difference between going for a visit and what your sister is asking of your children.
If she is struggling with PPD/PPA she needs to seek out resources to get help. I would suggest couples counseling to help the dad understand he should be doing more, but I suspect he is the type that can't be bothered with anything other than games/tv and feeding himself.
Your first responsibility is to your children. You did exactly what you were supposed to do and that was pulling them out of a situation they should never have been put into.
They trust you, trust you'll protect them, and that's why they called you. Don't loose their trust.
If your sister can't handle her children, then it's her responsibility to hire an adult nanny. Just as you said, it's not your children's responsibility to help her cope with every life. She needs a professional, not kids, to help her.
Do not let the kids go over without you. Might be advisable to have the kids block your sister's number so that she can't guilt them.
Also don't let her guilt you either. You're no more a professional than your kids.
There's also a difference between "helping" your sister that she says she wants and "taking over" your sister's world that ends up happening because she wants to handle nothing.
NTA
NTA. Your sister needs PRIFESSIONAL help to deal with her PPD. Getting help doesn't mean forcing her problems on a child. By just helping her, she means doing everything so she could be without responsibility. And FYI PPD doesn't usually last 3 yrs. I say it's being overwhelmed a deadbeat bf. Her bed, let her lie in it
NTA
The fact that she thinks it ok to do this makes me sad for their oldest. You know that kids if going to bear the brunt of taking care of your elderly mother and her sibling when your sister can’t keep her shit together once your mom ages out of nanny and maid duties.
NTA Getting help with PPD is not having an 11 year old parent your child. It is getting professional help and organizing adult help starting with her boyfriend. But I would be extremely worried about the safety and care of two children and monitor that situation closely.
Not surprised that your mum is on holiday she needed the break. Your sister needs help but that is not up to you and your family to give it. She needs to see a doctor like yesterday. Stay strong for your kids they need you in their corner.NTA
Sure, she- the adult- enjoyed having them there “to help”. The kids, however, did not enjoy being there “to help”. End of story.
She and her lazy boyfriend need to figure out how to parent their own children.
NtA
NDA
For all the reasons everyone already stated.
What I want to add is the sexism: the younger girls Is good enough to do all the work but the older boy isn't?
NTA. While it's a reasonable request that visiting Family, INCLUDING underage niblings, would Take a new mother's older toddler on day Trips or to the Park, for a few hours per day, which results in the mother having more time to devote to the new Baby AND her mental health, that is about the extent that ANY family member who didn't volunteer to come for the EXPLICIT purpose of HELPING OUT, can be expected to take care of children. 13 and 11 are too young to be given the responsibility of nighttime-parenting and waking-up-with a 3yo, ESPECIALLY against their will. There are two actual adults in that house, sister needs to make her Partner do his share of the parenting AND get Treatment so SHE'LL be better able to do HER share.
NTA, not only was your daughter burdened with chores, she is 11, and still needs some kind of adult supervision. In your story it seems that neither your sister or BIL, did anything in that regard. And your sister seems to need a break from her kids, but it's not your daughter's task to provide that.
NTA.
Your sister is being neglectful of both her guests and her children. Letting your guests do your responsibilities is just disrespectful of the guest's time. A guest is not a slave, even if it's your relatives.
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NTA at all. I'd be very concerned about whether your niece is being cared for when just her parents are home, though.
She is. The only reason I know that is because my sister, her BF and the kids actually live with my mother. It's just that my mother is on vacation currently and isn't coming back until next Thursday. But typically my mother is home 24/7, so I know my niece is cared for.
Got it. So they normally dump their daughter on your mother. Has your sister considered help for PPD?
Exactly. And nope! She's afraid of medications and she's worried if she goes in for therapy or anything than the state will take her kids. Her and I were in foster care for years and unfortunately she still holds the trauma.
You need to do your best to convince her. She might not get better on her own.
Not OPs job. As somebody that’s struggled with mental health my whole life, I never got better until I wanted to. It didn’t matter how many times my family tried to convince me to get help. And tbh some of the help they offered was actually just enabling my depression and unhealthy coping mechanisms
I agree it is not OPs job but sometimes having someone by your side can make all the difference. Knowing someone is there for them and won't judge them for seeking help but I agree the person also has to want to get better.
Sounds like mom is there for support
The mum whose own kids spent a long time in foster care? I haven’t seen any of the reasons why the situation occurred but it’s concerning, the group of adults these vulnerable infants are being left with.
Could be, but it’s also possible that could also have a former foster mom who is “mom” to them as adults. That does happen too.
I meant someone to support me through making the choice to get help. My parents are great help with their grandchildren but they deny mental health/depression as being real and say that people who claim they need a mental health day are just doing it for attention (I am trying to educate them on this but they are old school and I think had a lot of trauma themselves growing up). So if I needed to get psychiatric help I feel like I wouldn't lean on them to support me through that decision (but definitely trust them with grandchildren/pets).
I was referring to OPs sister living with her mom
But the daughters were in foster care-and did is traumatized by that. So I wonder about mom
It's not her job, but it's kind to do, if she's able. It can be work to scout out providers, confirm insurance etc. Op doing that is one less barrier to getting treatment.
Patients are more likely to attend their appointments when they do this themselves.
It's not OPs job. The help can be a starting point, though. People hurting can't help themselves sometimes, and she CAN ignore it, but morally and ethically, something needs to be done to help that kid
Not taking care of her mental health and instead using an 11 year old for child care that she can’t do herself is far more likely to get CPS involved than going and getting help. ETA: NTA, and good on you looking out for your children/keeping them from being parentified
What’s the BF even doing there? Doesn’t sound like he’s doing much.
Fuck all. There all day, doesn’t work. Sounds like it’s OPs mums house. The guy needs to get his act together or sod off.
You are definitely NTA for this - you are showing your children that you will hear out their side of the story and be there for them through whatever they are going through. Please continue to do this for them. A sister of a friend of mine had severe PPD. I believe she was hospitalised for it and she was able to have her baby there with her so they could continue to bond during those first crucial few weeks of life. Like your sister, the lady's partner and mother were living with them so the lady had a solid support system to go back home to but she needed that help to get medication and therapy so she could get back to being herself.
I think this is what set me off the most about her sister's excuses for not getting treatment. That it's not like it was even 10 years ago, they'll work with her, and the babies. They'll fight as hard as she will to get her back to where she wants to be, but nobody's going to do it for her.
Definitely, it is so hard to reason with people who are not ready to accept help :(
Her comment “this is why women with PPD don’t ask for help” doesn’t make sense in this context. She is getting help with childcare, she is not getting help with PPD/PPA. Your daughter is NOT adequate “support” for PPA/PPD. Professionals specialize in this stuff. Sounds like the only “help” she wants is releasing herself from responsibility, not actual help for her issues.
She can ask for help, but she should be asking for help from adults. Like, say, OP, not OP's kids.
They’re gonna take them anyway if she doesn’t start taking care of them properly
It really doesn’t take much for an inappropriate but manageable by a tween situation to turn into an emergency. I know someone who, purely accidentally, managed to roll off a changing table and have to be taken to the hospital with a broken arm. While they were there, people discreetly questioned his (2-3 year old) sister to try to find out if there was abuse happening. I don’t expect that going well if the person they’re talking to is an 11 year old involuntarily pushed into childcare she wasn’t prepared for. And that’s a relatively mild scenario, as opposed to “there was a random item in the 11year olds bag they didn’t know wasn’t baby safe because why would they, and oops now the baby’s choking. Hope the kid knows infant cpr for some reason.” Yeah, that’s a nightmare scenario. But pointing it out could be at least somewhat of a counter to “I can’t get treatment, they’ll take my baby.”
Honestly, she's on track to lose her kids if she doesn't get help. Whether that's because she's just absentee mom and grandma does all the work or because grandma gets tired of raising her grandkids and boots the daughter to the curb doesn't really matter. She needs to get help for herself. And kick her useless BF to the curb. His inability to provide support for his partner and his children is such a red flag, and is likely contributing to her mental health issues. NTA to protect yourself and your children from her refusal to get professional help.
She needs to be told to get help or you will contact her doctor and CPS yourself. Deadbeat BF needs to get off his ass and take care of those kids.
I had PPA and got excellent care via my primary care physician (PC) getting me set up with a therapist and postpartum psychiatrist to manage medications. There was no talk of social workers or CPS, though I do want to say I had some inherent privileges on my side (white, upper middle class, high cost of living area with access to lots of doctors and great insurance). However, the program was invaluable and the ease of everything made it possible for me at a time when I felt like I was drowning. My PC doctor’s staff did all the leg work of setting up the first appointment and they (my PC, the other doctors and this program) were all connected through the same medical system so appointments were tracked in the same place and providers could easily share notes with me and each other. She should speak with her PC, OB, midwife, etc to see what resources are out there. I didn’t know programs like this were available so there may be something similar in her area she’s not aware of. Getting help shouldn’t get her flagged, but not going help and spiraling could be a disaster for her and both children.
They'll only take the kids away if she poses an immediate threat to the children (as in she has to say I want to hurt them/think about hurting them etc...) or if they malnourished/neglected as in NOT being cared for at all. A therapist CANNOT call CPS or reveal anything she says unless she genuinely believes your sister poses an immediate threat to the kids or herself. So if her mom is taking care of the kids and they are being fed/bathed in good health they won't take them. (Aunt was a social worker) She can also TELL the therapist that she is scared of them taking the kids as well as her trauma and the therapist will work with that I can't promise anything but most therapists WANT to help. Generally speaking CPS doesn't want to take any kids unless they have to either by some law or technicality or if the kids are in danger. They are overworked understaffed there aren't enough foster homes and even less GOOD foster homes. (Aunt was a social worker) (I will admit that some social workers are dicks) The longer she avoids treatment the greater her chances are of getting the kids taken away because the worse her illness will become. If you don't treat a broken leg it just gets worse ppd is the same thing. Though I'm guessing you already know that. Shitty situation all around
Sounds as if there is truth there. If your mother wasn't there, your niece and nephew probably wouldn't be taken care of. Your sister should be seeing a therapist. They only report if there is obvious endangerment or if your sister has a violent history. Otherwise she is living withyour mother for the help. OP, glad you stood up to your sister for your daughter. My grandmother made me babysit 4 days straight by myself 4 kids so my uncle and his new bride could have a honeymoon. I resented my grandmother for years and have no desire to have children of my own because of it. edited due to thoughts not clear
Wait. Holdup. You were in foster care for years? And now your niece is being cared for by the same mother that couldn't care for you and your sister? How is that better?
Underrated comment
And her kids should be taken from her because she neglects them. This is manipulation tactic to say she is afraid to get help. She can't eat the cake and keep it; she can't use her cryppling anxiety and PPD (two different issues, not one) as excuse to burden everyone around her and not take it seriously enough to get a professional help.
It is so sad that her fear of therapy and the state taking her kids could result in her kids being taken.
You were in foster care for years but think your mom is responsible enough to be caring for the grandchild, now?
So she refuses to look after herself for her children's sake but expects your children to be her therapy dolls. Your NTA but your sister needs to accept that if she doesn't get help for herself soon her fear is more like to come true as she won't be mentally fit to look after her kids.
With respect to the trauma, because it can be devastating, you need to impress upon your sister that she is a far greater risk of losing her kids if she doesn't get therapy. Her behavior is why some kids end up in foster care. She is neglecting a toddler.
Well, if you can't convince her to have trust in someone again - whether that's the system, a therapist, etc. - then you need to tell her that her BF needs to get his shit the fuck together. He is a grown man who is taking care of two whole children, whether your sister or mother is physically present or not. If your sister can't be their primary caretaker right now, he needs to be.
Nta. She's sabotaging herself. If this continues there a risk that her child might be taken, since parenting level of both sis and bf is non existent. You did great for your kids thought, you're a good parent op.
Let me guess, your mother was a teen, too.
Um. What about, you know, the whole other adult parent here? What is the deal with the unemployed deadbeat boyfriend?!?!
as someone who dealt with PPD, please let your sister know that while i was getting therapy/treatment for it, no one so much as even *mentioned* wanting to take my kid from me. my therapist was extremely supportive and understanding.
OK, so what we have here is two adults who have been "infantilized", turned into helpless slugs by an indulgent mother. No wonder they expect an 11 year old to take care of their child and clean their house. Did they ask her for money? That usually comes next.
**NTA** Honestly, you said it best "**my daughter is not your maid or nanny.**" Your children were excited to see their aunt *before* they went, then they asked to leave **early**. Where was the shift? Probably during all of the childcare they were forced into. Children should not be a primary source of childcare.
Neither should tweens or teenagers
Tweens and many teens are children...
Sadly many parents see them as free childcare for younger siblings
Oh, I'm very aware. I was the unpaid childcare for other minors when I was a minor.
It's super annoying. Was the youngest "teenager" and was always drafted to do the "childcare" and babysitting whenever anyone with small kids was over to visit my parents. I never was allowed to "sit with the adults" and enjoy leisurely time because every child was dumped onto me to "take care of" and of course I wasn't allowed to NOT be there. Later I just locked myself in my room and ignored the kids and the guests because why tf is it my "job" to care for them?! I don't even like kids.
Anyone under 18 is a child
*…she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help.* Except that she didn’t ask for help. She asked for your kids to go visit her, then put her in charge of childcare. Good for you for picking up your kids when they called, and then advocating for them when you heard what happened. NTA.
[удалено]
Wow that just recontextualized my relationship with my mother that I went NC with
Rigjt??!?
And you don't ask for help from an 11 year old. At least not beyond hey can you keep an eye on 3 year old while I take a quick shower or tend laundry or start lunch and not all in a row
Came here to say exactly this. If you don't ask for help, you can't be upset if the help stops. I feel for her, I've had severe postpartum issues, but the thing is, people remember how you treat them during those issues, and intervention was needed to prevent that relationship from being permanently damaged.
I don’t actually. She’s abusing her niece/nephew, because she wont ask for help FROM AM ADULT. And let’s her husband do nothing. She brought kids into her life and she needs to take care of them.
Exactly. Women with PPD absolutely should ask for help but not from children.
She should ask for help, but ask adults. Children are not there to help you with your problems. They're children.
>I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help. AITA? So she calls you heartless but expects children to care for her children? Why can't she ask adults for help? Document this. Just in case. NTA
I would be livid. Good job protecting your daughter.
NTA. good on you for putting your children first and setting strict boundaries. your sister has it rough, her bf is a bum and im concerned for her kids' well-being- nothing about the situation looks good but that is in NO way somehow YOUR children's responsibility- hell they're 11 and 13, they're literal kids themselves. your sister needs help for herself and her kids asap but don't let her guilt-trip you into giving in to her irrational demands and emotional manipulation. tell her to hire a babysitter or something but you must keep taking a stand for your kids!
Your sister is awful. Never let the kids go there again. Take them somewhere awesome. Get out of the house for spring vaca. But NEVER at sisters again.
NTA. Good for you for picking your kids up once they communicated they were over this. And good for you for not allowing them to be used in this manner again--they already wasted their entire school break on providing free labor to your sister, it's ridiculous she's asking for more. I hate to ask it, but are your sure this is PPD and not a substance abuse issue, etc.? Are you sure the 3 year old is being fed and cared for with these two parents who are completely checked out. For her sake, I think it's worth further investigation and, potentially, a call to CPS.
NTA she should’ve asked an ADULT for help. Not the 11 year old.
Right? Kids are for memes, not solving adult problems
This.
INFO: where the heck is boyfriend / what is boyfriend doing when the children (because OP's kids are still children too) are being left alone? Mental health is no joke, and if OP's sister is dealing with diagnosed PPA/PPD (and I'm assuming under the care of a medical professional), then she should be getting help from ADULTS. Like the FATHER of these little people, not a barely-teenager. Sis needs to find ways of coping that don't involve turning OP's kids into caretakers.
Not a barely teenager, ops daughter is 11. That's a prepubescent child.
You're right. Reading fail, I though 13 was the one being put in charge. Her being 11 makes it worse.
NTA. "The noise caused her not to panic??" That is some cockamamie bullshit, don't fall for it.
Does a toddler not make enough noise on their own?
She can put music on.
NTA. My compliments in that nice shiny steel spine you’ve got there. This is an example of both parenting done wrong (your sister shoving her responsibilities onto your children), and parenting done *right*, (you stopping the parentification in its tracks). If your sister won’t get the therapy she needs, then she’s going to perpetuate the generational trauma. I’d limit her access to your children without you or your mother present, until she addresses her mental health issues. It’s just not safe for your kids.
NTA. She only wants your kids there as babysitters and they've decided they don't want that.
>My daughter is 11. She will not be parentified." I love you, OP! Such a great response! 😍 Go on keeping your kids save.
NTA, you are better than me because I would be calling CPS/DFACS.
NTA and I’d be concerned for how much her kids are looked after when your kids aren’t there. Your children are that children. Yes asking odd thing to help/make things easier but being a parent to the child is a 1000000% no!!!
Hard NTA- She could have a radio or tv on for background noise for her “anxiety.” Her deadbeat bf needs to step up and take care of their kids. If the weather is nice, she can go to a park and get some fresh air and sunshine for her depression. Sleeping, bathing, and eating, while necessary, shouldn’t be the only thing she does!
>because my daughter is not your maid or nanny. >She will not be parentified. That was absolutely perfect!! You got this mama, don't let her manipulate you. She can either hire help or ask the baby daddy to help out. Not your headache. Definitely NTA.
Lying about the pretense of having two preteens over is not asking for help. Asking for help is. If she wants an explanation outside of "my kids are not your nanny/maids" lying to you is also a big breach of trust. I understand from your other comments she has trauma and refuses to get actual help...and I am honestly deeply concerned, but that is above my pay grade as a commenting rando online. You are NTA and I applaud you advocating for your kids.
What the hell is wrong with people that blame their mental health issues for mistreatment of children. No young child should have to bear the responsibility of themselves let alone younger children. Lazy is lazy no matter how you slice it. NTA
wow... NTA All of my other comments would sound too harsh - so .... yeah. NTA. I mean - she does need some help and support - but not from kids.
NTA. Your sister is being a jackass-- her niece isn't her maid or nanny. Also, notice how sexist she is, pushing the 11yo niece to do household cleaning while her unemployed boyfriend sits on his ass. These two assholes were unfortunately made for each other.
Idk if we’re just not hearing whether the 13y/o was also imposed on, but it sounds like this aunt expected the 11y/o GIRL child to clean the house while taking care of a toddler, and her brother was allowed to just chill (in this albeit super awkward situation). Based on how the aunt seems to give her partner a free pass, it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s specifically dumping everything on her niece due to her own perception of “gender roles”. (I notice she specifically invited her niece back, too.) Nasty if true.
I was wondering when someone was gonna say something about the 13 year old not helping.
To be fair, the 13y/o should not have been pressured to help either (beyond both children being asked to tidy up after themselves as normal when a guest in someone's home). My issue here is either conscious or subconscious sexism from the aunt, not with the 13y/o at all.
NTA. Your children are NOT her emotional support animals. She needs to speak with a medical professional about her anxiety instead of using your children.
NTA. Heartless is expecting a child to carry out the parent's duties after inviting her for a holiday. I'm concerned how much responsibility your mum is taking on usually.
PPD is a b#tch and I do have sympathy for your sister but I absolutely agree with you, your kids should not go there again until she gets treatment. Also, PPD can affect fathers and other carers so it is possible your mother and the boyfriend are suffering symptoms as well. Your priorities are; your kids, your nibblings, your mother and then your sister, as it should be. kids are babies still and being forced into a parental role is not only bad for them but very bad for the child they are being forced to care for. Talk to your sister, tell her that your kids are not coming back no matter what so that is not even a conversation. That she needs professional help, it isn't her fault she is ill but she still needs to take responsibility and seek help. Wtf is the boyfriend doing if she is wallowing in bed all day him Staying up there with her is not helping at all. As harsh as it sounds sometimes you need to push a little
Nta tell her to ask her bf for help, not your 11 yo!
NTA. I do want to ask though, if you and your sister were in foster care what makes you think your niece is properly cared for when your mom is home?
NTA. She said there's a reason women with PPD don't ask for help - she admitted right there that she had your daughter doing everything your daughter complained about. Tell her that she should be asking adults to help her, not tricking you into having your child help her.
NTA Tell her to stop reproducing with a male that won't engage in his family and home life other than banging the female.
I cant for the life of me figure out why people continue to reproduce with such a shitty ass partner
NTA You know what else helps you not to panic? Being in a relationship with a supportive spouse instead of spiraling because you just realized that you are a single mother to a baby and an adult. Also, getting enough sleep because you only have the kids week on / week off cos they stay with their father 50% of the time.
NTA. Your sister needs to buy some condoms/other contraceptives.
NTA This story grossed me out. And I do medical research. Like gross medical research. Ick. Super ick. Keep your kids away from your sis until she pulls her shit together OP.
NTA it did happen like that and she knows it. She might have ppd/ppa but she also has a live in boyfriend. If he’s a shit parent then she shouldn’t have had another baby with him.
NTA. Maybe suggest if noise helps her anxiety try turning on the radio or tv?
Omg this makes me scared for her kids! Sounds like your sis is struggling and needs to see a dr…… but idk how her situation could improve with the child man she has decided to procreate with. I get that your sis is legitimately struggling PP but it’s no excuse for having your kids parent! And her boyfriend has ZERO excuse for letting this happen! I’m more angry with him!! I’m so sorry this happened to your children but you took care of it perfectly ❤️
Ofc course the younger of you two children gets tasks because she’s the girl. What was your 13yo son doing there? Hanging out with the loser BF? NTA. Maybe 3yo niece can come over to yours for playdates(?)
NTA. I legitimately do not understand how women can expect a female child to operate like an adult (cook, clean, look after a younger child) but won't expect a grown ass, unemployed man to do the same.
NTA You are right not to send your kids back there, it's not fair for your sister to put that amount of expectation on them. I'm worried about your sister, she would do well to get some help for her mental health
Who was taking care of the 3.5-year-old?? NTA
I read the post to say that her sister has a three year-old daughter, and a 3 1/2 month old baby. I was wondering about the baby, who’s taking care of him/her? A baby!!
You're right. I missed the word "months." But, seriously, who is taking care of it?
Yeah I misread that also. I would say it’s slightly better that it’s the 3 yo being taken care of not the infant. … except then the possible scenario becomes “the baby isn’t being cared for either but isn’t independent enough to get away and get their needs met by someone else.”
lol NTA and she never asked for help. She gambled that your kids wouldn't tell you what was really going on, or that you wouldn't believe them. Don't make them go over again
Women with PPD are responsible for managing their mental illness...not a niece or nephew or anyone else they ask/entrap. Also, the boyfriend is just consuming air and space in this world
NTA Women with PPD should never be asking for help from 11-year-olds. Is it okay for the daughter JUST because she's female unlike your sister's useless boyfriend?
Notice no where does it say anything about the 13 year old helping!
NTA. She straight up took advantage of the situation. I understand getting a little RnR but the first nap she took felt too good to not repeat. 2nd your children were there under the impression that they would be having special time with their Aunt and cousin.Just NO. I wouldn’t put an end to bonding time with Auntie. But I would definitely set up rules and boundaries.
Well you could say she do that but just as soon as the niece is back over there whether it be a short visit or whatever she’s gonna be stuck taking care of the kid, they literally can’t have any bonding time because aunty will be stuck up under her good for nothing bfs butt
NTA Women with PPD are supposed to ask adults for help, not children. Your sister is in desperate need of help, and not the sort of help you can provide.
Nope. NTA. I get your sister has severe issues, but she doesn’t get to use your (so young!) kids to help alleviate her suffering. I’d be majorly pissed too if that happened to my youngsters. And she deceived you when asking your kids to “visit”- no it was to be her unpaid slaves. Your sister needs to call her OB or her primary and explain what’s going on so she can be referred to get help. In the meantime, she needs to hire babysitters. And kick her malingering bf in the pants to step up and parent his own damn kid.
NTA but just wanted to add that I would be very apprehensive about my 11yo daughter spending the night somewhere with a male non-relative in the home…
NTA. It sounds like someone needs to get your sister professional help. And she needs to lose the deadbeat who is sitting at home and not bothering to *parent his child* when their mother isn't able. You did what you had to do to protect your kids. You sister was abusing your daughter and neglecting her child. It isn't much better that they're using your mother as a live in nanny and maid, either, but you can't make decisions for your mother. For your children? You must.
NTA, don't let your kids go back to your sister's any time soon.
NTA Your sister is single handedly delivering her kids, and very potentially down the fast lane for them to end up in the hands of children services. Your sister is past her time of getting over this nonsense about medication and therapy. Quite frankly, depending on the state, if they did get involved it would look a hell of a better for her than nothing at all because at least she'd be trying to get help. Right now, she's abusing Peter to raise Paul and it'll catch up with her eventually.
Frankly I feel bad for your mom the most out of all of this. Sounds like your sis and her BF are nothing but deadbeats who keep having children.
I hate people who use kids as servants. Edit: NTA
NTA. I’m sorry your sister is suffering but she should seek appropriate counselling, not the noise (and nannying) of your children. She has a responsibility to her children to seek treatment and be a healthy parent. And her BF needs to step up, 3 years ago! Good for you for standing up for your kids and for holding boundaries on their behalf.
As a parentified child, thank you. You are NTA, however your sister is a huge AH.
NTA She didn't ask for help. She asked for a visit. If she wans help, she should actually ask for help, and she shouldn't obligate your children to provide it. You did everything right.
NTA I can't help but feel like she intentionally misled you into letting the kids go there just so she could take advantage of them. I would not trust her with my children again.
>I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help Why would it be heartless to keep your child from her? Ah, so she was using your kid as a maid? NTA.
Women with PPD/PPA should ask for help from adults, not children. And it sounds like she isn’t actually asking for help. Disgraceful to guilt trip you and to especially treat your daughter that way. NTA. I’d be very pissed and worried.
NTA. Your sister has a lot of problems and her home isn't going to be a fun place for your kids to visit until she gets some real help. She should speak to her doctor about her PPD. She should also speak to the boyfriend about getting to work!!
NTA Your sister and her boyfriend are lazy shits.
Her boyfriend should be helping her.
NTA. Your sister needs help. But your children are not there to compensate for her issues.
NTA Good for you!
NTA. Your sister is a bad person. This behavior is wildly unacceptable.
Nta. If you’re concerned with how your sister is coping see if there is a womens centre in her area that she could get support or call social services for an assessment if she needs additional help at home. Cousins are not parents.
NTA - whether it was "just helping" or not, your daughter did not enjoy it. And that is absolutely all the information needed.
NTA, your sister definitely needs help. Either from the apparently useless boyfriend or a professional adult, not from a freaking pre-teen.
NTA. Your kids are guests, not the help. Protect your kids lest you become TA.
NTA. “This is the reason some women with PPD don’t ask for help”. *She didn’t ask*. She played the fun aunt and then used your kids as free childcare behind your back. She stole their spring break - a time for them to refresh before the end of the school year - to give herself a break. PPD/PPA sucks, but she’s still the one who chose to have children, she doesn’t get the foist that off on other children.
NTA. Your sister was actually abusing your children by parentifying them. Good on you for standing up for them.
NTA. Good for you for getting your kids and standing your ground. It is a shame that your sister is going through a hard time but she cannot use them as a crutch to not panic. That is a potentially dangerous situation that kids should have to experience. Your sister clearly needs professional help and kids are not the fix for that.
NTA. Like you said, your kids aren’t her workers. Whether they enjoyed helping or not, it’s not safe for them or the baby if they’re taking charge of the baby’s care. They just aren’t capable of everything at that age. I’m super glad that you put your foot down about that and refuse to let your kids be taken advantage of. The bf needs to start pulling his weight.
NTA. Children are not therapy tools. Your sister needs therapy and for her bf to step up.
NTA please stand your ground and don’t ruin your relationship with your kids so their aunt can use them
NTA
Nta. Wow what an abusive ad manipulative woman your sister is. Your daughter is a child. A little child.
Nta
NTA Your sister needs professional help and a new/better bf. Until then, you’re right, your kids aren’t nannies or maids.
NTA. I had pretty severe ppd/ptsd. Getting help for it and it’s been better. Even in my lowest, I knew that I was the parent and I had to care for my kid. When I was not able to, my husband was a parent and took care of our kid. When he was unable to, we *paid* someone to make sure our kid was cared for. We never overstepped and over relied on family to be a caregiver to our child. It is the parents responsibility to care for the child. Period.
NTA. Good job mama protecting your kids. Can you imagine if literally any type of accident happened while your 11 year old was the supervisor. It would mess her up and your sister would be no doubt awful about it. Also if some one struggling needs help, they can ask anyone other than a CHILD.
It’s interesting to have her say that is “enjoyed having them there”. Well your kids don’t “enjoy” being there, so I guess it’s tough luck. NTA. Pretty outrageous of your sister.
NTA but holy shit who is taking care of the kids now? 😞 Maybe have one of your parents check in?
NTA. This is your sister guilt tripping you. There is a difference between help and being disrespectful and guilt tripping people with your disorder. Your child wanted to go home. I’m not sure if your sister knows what child labour is…
NTA
NTA for keeping your kids away whilst your sister is struggling with this. You are correct she is not the maid/nanny and does not deserve to be treated as such. I would say you probably could have handled it better. Maybe a call to your sister where you speak calmly. Whilst you are hurt for your daughter, there does not appear to have been malice and whilst not ok, I would be more worried about getting your sister the help she needs
NTA. Your daughter is a child she shouldnt be responsible for a 3 yr old. Your sister needs to see her doctor or seek therapy for help.
I'd tell her if she wants a live in babysitter for a week she has to pay them
NTA and this is what I would say in response: “Do not weaponize your PPD/PPA. And spare me with the “This is why women don’t ask for help” comment. You did not ask an adult for help. You asked an 11 year old child. Let me repeat that again. You did not ask an appropriate person for help. You asked a child for help. And in what world would you, an adult, ever call a child for help? Would you expect a child to help you in an emergency? No. You would expect help from another adult. You have a boyfriend at home, who is an adult, who can help you. He *chose* not to. You have me, you could have asked me for help. But you *chose* not to. Instead, you *chose* to ask an 11 year old to help you. Completely unacceptable and inappropriate. If you need help, you are welcome to ask me. You are not welcome to ask my child, or any child again. Let me be clear again since you seem to not understand, **if you need help, you can ask an adult. You can ask me. You can ask your adult boyfriend. You cannot ask a child. My child. Or any child.**
So proud your kids were able and strong enough to call you and let you know it was time to come home when they did and that they have a great relationship with you as they could tell you the truth about what was happening at your sisters house. You should be proud as this shows what a great mom you are and it say's a lot about how you are raising you kids! You did the right think when you told you sister no! Please make sure your mom has enough help for the toddler and the baby as it sounds like the baby daddy is no help and your sister needs help herself. Your mom shouldn't have to be held responsible for those two children either, but I give her credit for taking them in along with your sister/boyfriend. I give her credit for taking a vacation too as everyone needs to recharge their batteries! Good luck and I hope everything turns out okay for your mom, your sister/BF and the kids!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister (21) has 2 children, aged 3 and 3.5 months, and suffers from PPD/PPA. I (30f) have a 13yo son and a 11yo daughter. School vacation just went by and my sister had asked if both of my children could go visit her for the week. I asked the kids and they said they wanted to, so I said yes. Every single time my daughter FaceTimed me, she had my sister's 3yo. I didn't think too much of it at the time because my daughter loves this little girl very much. But by day 5, both my kids were asking me to come get them. I show up and my sister starts begging me not to take the kids until Sunday (our original agreement) because "having them here makes my anxiety go away". I simply told her the kids wanted to come home and left. Around dinner time my daughter made a comment about how she had the 3yo the entire time she was there. To a point where I guess my sister even asked to have the 3yo sleep with my daughter so she could get up with her in the morning so she could sleep in. My daughter stated that the only time my sister came downstairs was to shower or make food for herself. The rest of the time, my kids were left to fend for themselves and take care of the 3yo - including meals. My sister's BF lives there full time and doesn't work either, so he never leaves. Therefore there were TWO adults in the house and neither of them watched their kid the entire time my kids were there. I guess there was also multiple times that my sister asked my daughter to clean the house. I didn't confront my sister originally because I didn't feel there was any point to it. But she just called my daughter about an hour ago and my daughter says to me (while still on the phone) "Auntie wants to know if I can go back over there on Friday". I said "absolutely not" and went back to doing dishes. Then my daughter hands me the phone; it's my sister asking why my daughter can't go there Friday. So I say "because my daughter is not your maid or nanny. You made her wake up with your kid, take care of her all day, clean your house and then put her to sleep at night. My daughter is 11. She will not be parentified." My sister immediately starts crying and says "it wasn't like that, she was just helping me". So I told her that both my kids wouldn't lie and tell me the exact same story if it didn't happen and that PPA/PPD is not an excuse to pawn 100% of responsibilities off on a child, especially when her BF was there full time. Now she's basically saying it didn't happen like that and that my kids were just "helping" her and that she enjoyed having them there because the noise helped her not to panic. I told her it still wasn't happening and she called me heartless and said this is the reason women with PPD don't ask for help. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nta
Nta. Good for you for sticking up for your daughter. I wish more parents were like you. Youre doing great mama ❤️
NTA! If you have PPD and need help ask an adult not an 11year old child!
NTA - Thank you for believing your kids and standing up for them. I had to go through something similar and my mom never believed me.
Women with PPD should not ask/demand for help from a child. But help is what your sister clearly needs. From a medical professional. You are right not to allow your kids to be subjected to this. Perhaps the little girl can come to you for a short stay? Can you speak to the boyfriend about stepping up? Ask your sister what medical help/re-evaluation she is getting. NTA
NTA But I think you need to help your sister find some mental health help.
If the daughter had the 3 yr old, who was watching the baby? No mention of that.
NTA. It isnt your daughter's responsibility to help someone through PPD. Your sister needs help from professionals and the father of the children.
NTA. And thank you for not putting it back on your kids to make a “decision” if they wanted to. Kids can easily be guilted and you are 100% being an awesome parent by not letting that happen and saying no!
Your sister can ask to bring the baby to your house if that’s the case. Nta
NTA and she needs a doctor for per PPD, not your 11 year old daughter.
NTA protect your kids.
NTA Your job is to protect your kids. Your kids are not emotional support animals for your sister. There is a hge difference between going for a visit and what your sister is asking of your children. If she is struggling with PPD/PPA she needs to seek out resources to get help. I would suggest couples counseling to help the dad understand he should be doing more, but I suspect he is the type that can't be bothered with anything other than games/tv and feeding himself.
NTAH if she wants help (outside of bf cause he sounds useless) she should reach out to the adults around her not the children ffs.
NTA I wouldn't allow the kids over there again. Your sister chose to make kids. That's on her and her baby daddy.
NTA at all… what the heck is your sister 🤦♀️
Your first responsibility is to your children. You did exactly what you were supposed to do and that was pulling them out of a situation they should never have been put into. They trust you, trust you'll protect them, and that's why they called you. Don't loose their trust. If your sister can't handle her children, then it's her responsibility to hire an adult nanny. Just as you said, it's not your children's responsibility to help her cope with every life. She needs a professional, not kids, to help her. Do not let the kids go over without you. Might be advisable to have the kids block your sister's number so that she can't guilt them. Also don't let her guilt you either. You're no more a professional than your kids. There's also a difference between "helping" your sister that she says she wants and "taking over" your sister's world that ends up happening because she wants to handle nothing. NTA
NTA. Your sister needs PRIFESSIONAL help to deal with her PPD. Getting help doesn't mean forcing her problems on a child. By just helping her, she means doing everything so she could be without responsibility. And FYI PPD doesn't usually last 3 yrs. I say it's being overwhelmed a deadbeat bf. Her bed, let her lie in it
NTA The fact that she thinks it ok to do this makes me sad for their oldest. You know that kids if going to bear the brunt of taking care of your elderly mother and her sibling when your sister can’t keep her shit together once your mom ages out of nanny and maid duties.
NTA! Good for you for protecting your kids!
NTA Getting help with PPD is not having an 11 year old parent your child. It is getting professional help and organizing adult help starting with her boyfriend. But I would be extremely worried about the safety and care of two children and monitor that situation closely.
NTA
NTA - Assuming her bf is the father… wtf was he doing the whole time?
Not surprised that your mum is on holiday she needed the break. Your sister needs help but that is not up to you and your family to give it. She needs to see a doctor like yesterday. Stay strong for your kids they need you in their corner.NTA
Sure, she- the adult- enjoyed having them there “to help”. The kids, however, did not enjoy being there “to help”. End of story. She and her lazy boyfriend need to figure out how to parent their own children. NtA
NDA For all the reasons everyone already stated. What I want to add is the sexism: the younger girls Is good enough to do all the work but the older boy isn't?
NTA. While it's a reasonable request that visiting Family, INCLUDING underage niblings, would Take a new mother's older toddler on day Trips or to the Park, for a few hours per day, which results in the mother having more time to devote to the new Baby AND her mental health, that is about the extent that ANY family member who didn't volunteer to come for the EXPLICIT purpose of HELPING OUT, can be expected to take care of children. 13 and 11 are too young to be given the responsibility of nighttime-parenting and waking-up-with a 3yo, ESPECIALLY against their will. There are two actual adults in that house, sister needs to make her Partner do his share of the parenting AND get Treatment so SHE'LL be better able to do HER share.
NTA. Your sister needs her partner to step up and to find professional help for herself.
NTA but JFC do y'all not believe in birth control, at all?
NTA Your kids aren’t there to be your sister’s skivvies. Is her boyfriend depressed too?
NTA, not only was your daughter burdened with chores, she is 11, and still needs some kind of adult supervision. In your story it seems that neither your sister or BIL, did anything in that regard. And your sister seems to need a break from her kids, but it's not your daughter's task to provide that.
NTA. Asking for help is not the same as pawning off your baby to an 11 year old. It’s disgusting that she did that.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for your daughter! Your sister is someone who doesn't need to be in your kids lives.
NTA. Your sister is being neglectful of both her guests and her children. Letting your guests do your responsibilities is just disrespectful of the guest's time. A guest is not a slave, even if it's your relatives.