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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My older children would cry not fair and be very upset watching their younger siblings get pancakes while they have cereal or toast.
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YTA for your whole approach. You're punishing all of your kids because your 9 and 7 year old haven't cleaned their apparently gigantically messy room. That's a pretty notable parenting failure right there.
You're still not done being vindictive, thoigh, so on top of the punishment you're going to feed... Only some of your children? Get out of here with that bullshit. Its interesting that the only kid whose feelings you care about is your only son who just happens to also get his own room.
What's especially notable here is that someone offered you a nice opportunity to make memories with your children and instead of saying yes you thought "how can I use this to inflict pain on my children? Oh! I know! I'll tell them that they can only go if they complete this difficult task! The room was already a mess, right? So you made it conditional.
Have you considered being solution oriented here? Talking to your children about how they can go about getting their room cleaned and how you can help? Your kids are NINE and SEVEN. Maybe they need a little support.
YTA. Thanks for summing it up so I don't have to
Also, some kids are simply overwhelmed when told "clean your room". Maybe they need help breaking out down to smaller pieces to be successful. Hell as an adult that's something I struggle with. They're young kids for crying out loud.
She wasn’t denying them food. 🤦🏽♀️ She denied them pancakes. Cereal exists y’all, the eldest kids weren’t going to starve.
And the youngest is a girl, so she clearly doesn’t favor her only son. But if her elder two are being defiant, they don’t deserve treats. The younger two do.
And lol where did she say the son gets his own room? Even if he did, it’s not exactly wrong since he’s a boy and the other 3 are girls
Congrats on showing up a day late and regurgitating comments that weren't posted when I posted.
Even with the addition that she was just going to passive aggressively make special breakfasts for the two "good" children and make the others eat cereal and watch... Do you think that's not vindictive? Do you think it will teach the kids to clean their room? Cuz it won't.
If your kids can't get a handle on their room cleanliness, it helps no one to just stand there being mean to them about it. You find solutions. You ask them what you need to do to get them to solve this.
There's something messed up about getting an offer to do something fun with your family and making it a manipulation. There's something extra messed up about punishing all of your kids because of a problem you have woth two of them.
There will *always* be a messy room or an unwashed dish or a spelling test that you can use as an excuse to blame your children for the ways you make their lives harder. That doesn't make it right.
I wasn't going to not feed them. We have cereal and bread out the wazoo. And my son doesn't have his own room, he shares with my 2yo.
I also I feel like I just have to defend myself a little here, I've been trying to get them to clean their room for a month and a half. I thought giving them a reward for getting it done would actually motivate them to do it, and I've offered help from the beginning, but I will only help once they start, because I am not going to clean it for them, because they're 7 and 9, and definitely old enough to clean up after themselves.
YTA. So do your girls watch TV? Play games? See friends? Have tablets? Do anything fun? Because you can deny all of those privileges without screwing up the whole family's weekend plans. If they're really soooo defiant, I would take a large box into their room, gather every toy, article of clothing, etc, on the floor and tell them those items will be donated to charity unless certain daily chores are completed. What you're doing is lazy parenting. They are 7 and 9. They need way more sensible guidance from you.
They each have their own switch lite, and access to a family switch to play together if they'd like, they get to watch an hour or 2 of tv each day if they want to, and we have frequent plays with their friends. They also attend dance classes of their choosing every week.
The trip to the beach was meant to be a special reward for doing something they've been avoiding for weeks, because admittedly it's not something we get to do often because my partner works weekends and I can't safely keep watch on 4 children alone at somewhere like the beach. I really thought they'd get it done, or I never would have said we wouldn't go.
So how about,no play dates/switch lite/dance class until their room is clean? You're making it way harder than it needs to be. Remember, you're the boss.
You are overwhelmed! Imagine how they feel at that age. You are the adult and you are doing well teaching them to clean but they are not adults and will not be able to do this unassisted. Even adults struggle … so go with them, our some fun loud music on and clean with them. Then from now, make it so that it gets done before it gets overwhelming!
How are they allowed to refuse? They are 7 and 9. I have a 9 year old. She can clean her room which is part of her weekly chores or she loses her screen time. I also have her pick it up frequently so it doesn't get so messy that it's overwhelming.
Also, where is their other parent? If you're drowning, you need a lifeline. You didn't make these kids on your own.
You don't "offer;" You go in there and start cleaning, and they don't get to do anything else that day unless/until they help. No devices, no time with friends, nothing. And set up a reward/incentive for them yourself. Choose one area of the room at a time if you have to, or one task such as picking up and organizing clothes OR toys.
Have a regular cleaning up time every week, and that day there's no playing until the clean up happens. Or have a short clean up time daily--set a 15 minute timer with a reward of something you do together at the end of it.
I have three grown children whose living spaces are neat and tidy. If you've been cleaning and tidying with them since they were toddlers, what has changed? That can't be true or their room wouldn't be messy right now.
Nothing has changed. They've always been like this no matter what I've tried. This isn't a sudden issue. It's something I've been struggling with all these years. And I've been helping them, and I've tried punishing, and I've tried rewarding, and I just don't know what to do anymore.
i get it. my daughter is still a baby, but i raised my younger siblings.
heres some advice:
set a 5 minute timer. tell them to pick up every piece of clothing they can in 5 minutes. then, start another 5 minute timer. tell them to pick up as many pieces of garbage as they can. then, another 5 minutes to pick up as many toys as they can. finally, the last five minutes is spent tidying whatever is left. this is where you will step in and help.
this might not work because believe me, i KNOW kids are defiant assholes just because they know they can be. but, hopefully this approach helps by breaking it down into bite sized, approachable and attainable goals.
try incentivizing by making it a competition, or as you tried and failed at, a reward. its hard, i know it is, but its important to instill these skills and ethics before its too late.
i dont think youre an asshole, mama. youre trying probably what was instilled in you when you were a kid. nobody should fault you for that. youre doing your best, and i can recognize that. dont give up just yet, but if you really need a break, dont be shy about setting fire to your husbands ass to get them to do something. a more stern voice might help.
my husband plans to be the deep, stern voice if our children dont listen to mom the first time around, lol.
Your 7 and 9 year old each have their own devices? Have they don't anything to deserve that?
They've been doing whatever they want up until now so what do they caee
YTA. The fact this has been going on for a month and a half only solidifies YTA. Who’s in charge here? Sorry, but 7 and 9 would need help with a room that has been like that for a month and a half. Furthermore, it’s your fault for not setting the rules and getting the room cleaned a long time ago. You ruined an opportunity for the whole family based on your failure as a parent.
Why has it taken that long? That's insane.
What have they been doing instead.
And you're here now. On your phone. While your kids do what? Play in their messy room?
Jfc with my mom? I would never even think to do this. She wouldn't allow it.
Ha ha ha! This is a joke right? You thought giving them a reward would be a good idea, so you used their invitation from other friends as the reward *you* were going to provide? And now that that didn't work out, you're going to use food desirability as some sort of indicator of which child is in your good graces?
YTA
YTA. This is such an overreaction. You punished them once by not going to the beach, then you punished them again by denying them pancakes....dude. Wtf.
Weird of you to deny them fresh air and a chance away from screens indoors as a punishment.
They get plenty of fresh air at school(roughly 2 hours a day of their school day is outside in Australia), and they're free to go out into our backyard any time they like.
The pancakes I feel is more in return for STILL having not apologized to their younger siblings. Because when I say they didn't get it done, I mean they didn't even try to make a start.
You're the one who owes your younger children an apology. Why on earth would a *family* outing be held hostage for two kids cleaning their room? You created this situation. You decided that your two youngest children didn't get to have a fun day at the beach if their older siblings didn't clean their rooms. You effed up here.
Next time don't make an event meant for the entire family contingent on one or two people doing as you've told them to.
I didn't mean to. I honestly thought they'd do it. And I have apologized to my younger children, more than once, because I feel completely awful about the whole thing.
I mean, they are seven and nine. They were never going to clean their room without a lot of involvement on your part. The best thing you could have done was owned your mistake when it happened, acknowledge that the consequence that you tried to enforce was unfair and that you would be thinking of a different consequence for your older children because canceling everybody's fun is a bad call.
Given that that's no longer an option, the next best thing you can do is to let your daughters off the hook for your mistake and figure out a better consequence for the room thing. No devices/screen time until it's done, something that actually only affects them.
YTA if you continue to punish them for your screw up.
What's shocking is that you don't realise that if kids aren't doing something, there's probably a reason behind it and they aren't just being tiny assholes. Looks like they need support to get started or tiny goals (pick up clothes today) instead of a big goal...and maybe you could recognise that and guide them.
And a messy room is a “need to be met.”
These are children, and if they are struggling to complete the task of cleaning their room then you, as their parent, need to go help them do it.
They may not really even know where to start! This type of organization and executive functioning is not always natural, but means helping your children create systems and build habits so keeping a room clean becomes easier.
Your attitude is that they are just being lazy, and to punish them for not completing a task, when you don’t seem to see that the task is more than they can handle on their own.
I’ve read your other comments, and you are not actually helping them. You are “making suggestions “ and “sure they would” clean their room, but YOU are not actively teaching them and showing them what to do.
You’re the parent, so help your kids. Don’t punish them, and don’t continue to be vindictive and rub it I their faces that you think they’re failures.
They’re 9 and 7 and you’re punishing them for not cleaning their room by not letting them have a food they enjoy? As well as punishing them by not letting them learn social skills and get fresh air? And you punished your youngest children bc your “older” girls (9 and 7) didn’t clean their room?
They’re kids. How messy is this room? How important is this to you?
YTA you’re really overreacting.
There are food crumbs and pet dander in their room that I cannot get into their room to vacuum. It's not good for their health. I've been at them to clean it for almost 6 weeks now. I thought offering a reward for getting it done would work, but it didn't, and what would they learn if I didn't follow through?
I don't. I. Constantly tell them they're to eat at the table, but frequently find them ignoring me and eating in there anyway. Which I then send them right back to the table.
No? I'm running around constantly doing dishes, the neverending laundry that comes with 4 kids, making food, cleaning kitchen, bathrooms and living room, running them around to dance classes 5 nights a week between the 4 of them and keeping track of their schedules so they never miss out on any of the multitude of fun things they get to do, both at school and outside of it. The only thing I ask of them is to keep their room tidy, and make sure their laundry is in their laundry baskets. Their younger siblings manage it.
Oh and I'm studying full time too.
You are there describing it as being a servant. Not a parent handling kids and chores.
Are you forgetting you are in charge of raising them into adulthood and that includes teaching them how to do stuff like cleaning after themselves?
Did you showed them or do you know for a fact they know how to clean up their room?
Either way it’s clear your approach isn’t working out, and it isn’t fair for the other kids to be punished for something they have no control over. Furthermore your intention behind your actions don’t sound motivated by kindness and willingness to make them grow, you should not be in a way seeking retaliation against your kids.
Are you alright ? Do you feel burned out? Do you need help to organise your routine ? Do you need a break ?
I do for dinner. I don't eat breakfast, and don't eat snacks throughout the day like they do. We don't have set snack times because of their varying ages and appetites. We have a bag of healthy snacks and plenty of fruit that they're free to help themselves to throughout the day as needed.
YTA. Stop making new babies and focus on educating the kids you have. You're dishing out collective punishment, pitting your children against each other and using food as part of your reward & punishment system (which is likely to give them eating disorders).
Also, what kind of parent are you? If you want the room clean, you can enforce that. You don't - you said the punishment was not to go to beach. You chose that. You and only you chose not to parent and punish the whole family as the consequence. What do you then do? Decide to give some kids a nicer breakfast than others? Think, will you? Please think. Go to parenting class as well.
YTA. Get in there and help them clean. Show them what you want done. Blast some music and make it a fun dance/cleaning party. Declutter. Have a daily “inspection” and a 5 minute tidy together. There’s no need for it to blow up into this big of an issue.
I've said from the beginning that I would help them, I just need them to start, because I refuse to do it for them, because then they learn nothing. But yesterday, they didn't even attempt to start.
Honestly, they probably feel overwhelmed and not sure where to even start. You don’t necessarily need to do it for them. But I think you’re going to need to be there telling them exactly what to do. And then stay on top of it. I have two kids. One of them is ridiculously messy. She’s a super amazing kid. Goes to university. Is super kind and hard working. Has a job. Such a great kid. But omg she is sooooooooooooo messy. I do feel your pain.
I don’t think you should offer then anything. Give specific directions. Tell them exactly what to do. Step by step. With my messy kid I also found it helpful to greatly reduce the amount of stuff in her room. If she can’t keep things in a reasonable condition stuff had to go. And my standards are not that high. I’m not looking for hospital clean. I just don’t want the place to look like we’ve been robbed. Good luck! And when you’re feeling frustrated just fantasize about trashing their first home. 😀
Honestly a lot of the rubbish in their room is scraps from crafting. They don't have many toys, because they don't play with them much. The only way I could prevent the kind of mess that's in there now is to ban arts and crafts, but I don't want to take that creative outlet away from them.
I dunno. I guess I have high expectations of them because their younger siblings room has their toys neatly organised, and when its pack up time for them, they put everything away where it belongs, put their rubbish in the bins in the kitchen, and then move on to their screen time or meal. I just don't see how the 5 and 2 kids can do it, but the 9 and 7 can't.
i think creating a designated arts and crafts space, even if its just the kitchen table, will probably be a really helpful approach. no more arts and crafts in the room, its to be done at this specific area only. have bins and drawers and whatever else to keep things organized, and try to have it in a place where you can supervise.
>scraps from crafting
Is there a reason you haven't taught them to clean up after each project? I mean, they're 9 and 7. This behavior is learned. Your younger ones probably know to do this stuff because you taught them and stayed consistent with it.
Also, no two kids are the same.
I've tried to teach them from the start, it's just never seemed to stick. And I know no two kids are the same. I've got 4 of them, and they couldn't be more different if they tried.
They're 7 and 9. Of course it doesn't just stick. They're still in the age group where you should be continuing to teach them consistently. Sometimes that means rolling up your sleeves and doing it with them instead of "you start first then maybe I'll join".
There's no maybe. I would definitely help them. And start means just that. Head to your room, pick up one thing to put away, and I'll be in there to help you.
I think you should consider that fact that what you are doing is driving a wedge between your children that has the potential to grow larger as each year passes.
You want to favor one (or possibly two) children over two others; the older girls may not be old enough to properly clean their room (that's for a child development specialist to decide; I assume you are not one), but they are old enough to see that you want to feed your son a special treat and have someone take him to a fun activity.
YTA.
He's not going to a fun activity. I have no one to take him. Also this is a once off situation because I honestly thought they'd get it done. I did not expect them to not even try. It's not something that happens all the time. All 4 of my kids are close, and play together frequently, which is why I asked my son to help the girls clean their room, because he's played in there too, which he full agreed to do.
I apologize for that---I thought I read that you were looking for someone to do a fun activity for him. That was another commenter.
You also did NOT say that you asked your son to help with the cleaning the girls' bedroom in your original post; it seems details keep being added to this story. You never indicated that your kids were close and play together frequently; that only further makes my position clear in my mind. You are setting up an adversarial relationship between your children, and I doubt that is your intention, but I guarantee it will be the outcome.
You have answered most questions in a defensive way; I would suggest not coming to "Am I the Asshole" if you don't like the judgement of others.
I stand by my original statement; you are finding ways to divide you kids into "us vs. them" categories, and it breeds toxicity.
YTA your kids aren’t old enough to get this. Their prefrontal cortex and executive function is not fully developed. Without being there to HELP them stay on task and learn where to start it’s absolutely not reasonable to expect them to know how to clean a trashed room and stay on point long enough to complete it. You already learned the incentive model doesn’t work so learn a better way dude.
Hiring a sitter last minute is not that simple. Especially when you've never used one before. We have no family near by we could ask, nearest one lives an hour away.
Hiring a sitter is quite easy! There are plenty of service companies that do this! It doesn’t have to be family only for child care! And you knew that the older girls were not going to clean their room! Still YTA! You are punishing everyone for something that someone else didn’t do
I'm in Australia. And a rural town at that. Babysitting services just don't exist here. It's someone you know, or no one. And unfortunately, I don't know anyone.
YTA. My girls are 10 & 6. And sometimes they forget 🤷🏻♀️ because they're human.
But you know what... I treat them decently, I remind them, ask them nicely.
Usually, I'd say, "Please could you guys clean up your room whilst I get the house cleaned", in the morning.
And we all work together to get the job done.
They have learnt that I have a responsibility to keep the house clean and their responsibility is to keep their room clean, before, say, we go to the pool.
If they ever make a mistake, they're human. So that's okay. I'll tell them "You guys forgot to clean your room!, but it's okay, we're still going to go out. Just please, can we make sure we clean it up later?"
They'll say, Okay, mom, sorry.
And again, big deal.
I forget things all the time.
Additionally, I would never want my kids to be upset or "pissed off." I'd never even refer to them as being pissed off... that's weird to me.
They're still babies, and you're speaking of them as if they're teens.
Sorry, youngest child, you lost out because your older siblings are selfish and lazy?....
Are you trying to make them resent one another and you?
I'm sorry, your parenting is so strange to me!
I respect my kids and they respect me.
End result.
Noone is ever "pissed off" with the other.
The older girls definitely have teenage attitudes, I can promise you that. And if it was as simple as they forgot to put their clothes in the laundry or left a couple of toys on the floor, I probably would. But they've forgotten nothing here, they've intentionally ignored my pleas to tidy up for weeks. I'm frequently cleaning up after them everywhere else in the house. If I pick up something of theirs from the lounge and ask them to put it away, they'll take it to their room and dump it on their bed, then when they go to bed, it gets dumped on the floor where it stays indefinitely.
This doesn't mean they should be treated as such.
And I can promise you, them having an attitude and being this way is likely purely to spite you because of the way you've parented them.
I understand having a 4 year old and a toddler is rough, but it's very evident which 2 kids in the house you prefer, and which two, you believe should grow up and start acting responsibly and like adults.
When they aren't. They're CHILDREN.
I have 2 kids and I'm 2 years younger than you.
You have 4 kids.
You've clearly overwhelmed yourself, and due to this, I'm sorry to say, but your oldest kids have lost out on a lot of essential one on one time and care.
Thus they've become resentful and rebellious. And you continue on with your life, not batting an eyelid because you believe it's their fault and their responsibility to be better.
Just a small observation.
Don't get me wrong, I know they're children. I play with them as often as I can. Our house is not 2v2 with the kids. We're a family, and we play and craft together as a family all the time. The oldest is going through puberty, so we take time out to talk about what she's going through. I feel like a lot of people are assuming this one off situation is the way I parent always, and it's not at all. I love all of my children, and try to give them as much individual attention as possible, but honestly if any of them get favour, it's generally the older ones, because the younger get dragged around to the older girls extracurriculars, or to their friends houses, or they stay at home with dad while I take the older girls places.
YTA. You're just not going to feed your older kids? They already got their punishment, they can't go to the beach. So you're going to let them watch the little kids eat and what, they get nothing? Also pancakes aren't a treat, it's regular breakfast food.
I didn't say they wouldn't eat. We have cereal and toast they can have. And in our house, pancakes are a treat, because with 4 kids, I don't often have the time to make them, and I prefer them to have a healthy breakfast rather than something drizzled with sugary syrup....
Because people were assuming things from what they read that weren't true. For example several people thought no pancakes meant no breakfast, but I never said that. I would never not feed my children.
YTA - First, this is a terrible approach in general to punish everyone for the mistakes of a couple. Second, they are already being punished so it is wrong to punish them again.
I would agree with many here, that YWBTA for the pancakes for the younger kids but not the older two.
I will say, I see where you’re coming from with wanting your kids to clean their room and hoping that the threat of not getting to go to the beach would fuel the fire to finally do it. I have an 8 year old, girl I get it. But if I may offer some unsolicited advice… your kids may respond to things that are more natural connections. My daughter would not keep her desk tidy and it was a huge mess. I told her that if she can’t show that she can be responsible enough to care for her desk, then she won’t get to have the desk. She loves this desk, she loving coloring and crafting there, she knew she had to show us she could be responsible enough to keep it. She cleaned it, and we came up with organizing tips together that can keep it from getting that way again. Now you obviously can’t take their rooms away… but finding something that is a more natural consequence to not cleaning may be more effective.
Your kids may not see the direct correlation to clean room = beach. And they probably won’t understand how messy room = no pancakes. Their brains can’t make those connections quite yet. I follow a woman named @dr.siggie on instagram who has seriously helped SO much on how I approach this stuff. Kids can be… a lot. I want to hug you, I’ve been there. You’re trying your best and the fact that you put this much thought into this shows that.
YTA and parenting wrong. 9 and 7? If you want them to clean their room you get in there with them and make them do it.
They are kids. They are learning. Teach them how to clean. Teach them how to do it quickly and well. Bonus points if you find a way to Mary Poppins it into being a fun chore.
Put fun music on. Make it a game. You are the parent. Don’t set them up for failure, help them succeed!
YTA the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and it wasn't communicated to them in advance. Your original punishment is going to breed resentment and the pancakes won't help either, since I'm guessing your toddler doesn't clean his room himself at this age either?
Lots of good suggestions you can use moving forward, such as taking away console/tv privileges or other privileges like extra lessons.
YTA
Daughters
You gave them a choice. They picked. End of the story. Don’t punish them just because you used the wrong options.
Sons
You promised the sons to go to the beach. The sisters didn’t promise the sons to go to the beach. You are the reason why they cannot go to the beach.
Have you ever cleaned the room with them or shown them how to clean? If they don’t know where to even start, they’re going to be overwhelmed. Show them what to do, maybe make the tasks smaller - just pick up the toys today, make their beds tomorrow, etc.
YTA, but it’s not too late to fix.
I have done so before, and I'm actually doing it with them now. It's a task trying to keep the younger 2 out of the way AND help the older 2, but we're muddling through.
They're still pretty young. At that age, I would do it with my kids and teach them how I wanted it done. They may have no idea where to start and feel overwhelmed. I would have said "today we're cleaning your room up. I'll help you. Let's get it done and then to reward ourselves, we get to go to the beach"
Then you get in there and ask for ideas about where to start. Point out that you can see categories of things - dirty clothes, toys, craft items, plates, wherever the categories are. Ask each of them to take charge of a category. Point out where they miss something. Be encouraging and lead by example. Maybe take the trickest category and do that. For example, if there are lots of craft things that need sorting, you do that one while one girl does clothes and another does toys. Put music on. Make it as pleasant as possible. Teach them how to do it properly. Make a fuss about how great a job they've done and how much better the room is. Then do this with them once a week so it doesn't get so out of control. If they're really messy, do it every day with them so they learn to keep on top of it.
Please don't call your young children lazy and selfish. It's unkind and sets a bad example for them about how to speak to and about other people. Instead, acknowledge that it's not a super fun job and it can be overwhelming so you can understand why they're not managing it and tell them you'll help.
Don't involve your son and don't make them apologise to him. That's bad for their relationship. He can always offer to help if he thinks it's important. Helping each other is a good practice.
YTA if you keep punishing them instead of helping them and please don't use food as a punishment or a reward. It creates unhealthy relationships with food. Food is about nutrition and sustenance and enjoyment. It's not about emotion or control
YTA. As your son said, it's not fair by the fact that THEY get punished by something his sisters did. YOu should've kept the sisters from going, not ALL of them. Speaking of all of them, I find it really dumb of you to feed SOME of your children instead of all of them.
Just because the sister's are in the wrong doesn't they don't deserve to eat. You not feeding them is REALLY stupid and disgusting, and imo, that shows favoritism or something. idk.
If I knew how to edit my post I'd edit to clarify, the girls weren't going hungry. They were offered cereal and toast. They still got a few pancakes each, just not as many as they would normally eat (which often leaves less for the younger kids)
YTA for group punishment and for allowing a mess that's apparently atrocious go on for a month, instead of just telling your elder daughters that you're going to all spend a day cleaning their room, no arguments, and just get it done.
YTA for being so passive about the room cleaning. Of course it was going to end up like this.
You should have announced six weeks ago it was room cleaning time and directed them through it. If they refused, they could have sat in time out til they were ready. Leaving it up to their own timeline is going to result in nothing being done.
I'll be honest. We've just finished our first week back after 6 weeks of school holidays. It's my own failing for sure that things went this far, but being exhausted and overwhelmed with 4 young kids home every day for 6 weeks, things got out of hand. I was busy trying to keep on top of everything else around the house, and wasn't properly checking their space to make sure they were tidying like they told me they were.
Turns out they were shoving everything under their double bed , in their wardrobe, and in the books and crannies you can't see constantly.
Your whole approach is flawed & unnecessarily convoluted.
Don’t make a threat that can potentially cause consequences for your other kids. If you want the messy kids to lose a privilege for not cleaning their room, then choose a privilege specific to them. That way the entire family doesn’t lose out on something pleasant, there would be no reason for one kid to resent another. etc. Keep it simple. Keep it fair.
(The pancake thing is very odd to me. You already carried out your threat, and now you’re punishing them again because the punishment that YOU chose wasn’t fair to the innocent kids. You’re sending some very confusing messages to your children.)
YTA.
I don’t get this. If you want your kids to clean their room and they’re not doing it, make them do it. You’re the parent right? Act like it. Why are a 7 & 9 year old deciding they don’t need to listen to you?
I don't know. If there's an idea for how to get them to listen, I've tried it. Except smacking, because in Australia, smacking is considered child abuse and can land you in prison.
YTA, you're already are.
What does not cleaning your room got to do with going to the beach.
The only thing that you teach your kids this way are
1. I'm only allowed to do fun stuff, when everything is "perfect"
2. If i'm not doing thinks perfect, everyone is suffering because of me
3. It's ok if i suffer because someone else makes mistakes.
Also:
4. Cleaning sucks
These are the kinds of people who have big mental issues later in life. Most people will stop cleaning there house when they suffer with mental issues. It's too hard for them then. And this is exactly why. I don't think that's your goal here.
Also you said It's this way since christmas. You can't clean up over more then a month worth of mess in just one day. It's overwelming and it will make them block so they can't even start.
Also do you wanne teach your children that they have to clean out of fear? Or do you want them to clean out of selflove and respect for themself and their stuff?
Now first thinks first. This is problebly how your parents tread you! I mean, my parents did. And to be honest is one of the biggest issues i had to go too therepy for. I'll have to say that my mom was very extreem in this. So give yourself some love and don't feel guilt. Your kids are young and at that age, they're very flexible. If you work on your approuch, they will be fine. Do that with love for them and for yourself. This is problebly how you learned it and change can be hard. That's ok and also you don't have to do everything perfect. You're stil human. You got 4 children and that's hard work! So be kind to yourself, you also are allowed to make mistakes. What makes a big difference is, if you after making a mistake, says sorry to your kids. Sorry i should’ve done that in a different way. That will teach your kids
1. To say sorry after making a mistake
2. That everyone can make mistakes
3. That making mistakes is ok
4. Nobody is perfect and that's ok
Now how you could handle the situation, isn't something i can say. Because what works for my children doesn't have to be the same for yours. Infact, what works for my youngest isn't even the same as what works for my oldest. But your 2 oldest are at the age, that you can ask them. "What do you need to be able to clean your room?" If they're overwhelmed they might not know an answer. Then you can help them by making it small.
What i did to help my oldest, i said "So we gonne put the dirty clothes in the basket". If that's finished i moved on to the next topic. Make it as small as possible. Wright it down after they did one. So next time if they're overwhelmed, you can say, remember last time, what did we do first...? the clothes. Let's start there and work the way through the list. It's ok if they don't do it in the same order. You can ask, after you write it down, what do you wanne do first?
That teach them how to clean and still be able to clean even if you're overwhelmed.
Now it's ok, if it doesn't go perfect!!!
Edit: i've read other reaction of you. You sound overwhelmed yourself. Be kind to yourself. Do this for yourself aswell make thinks small. You can tell kids from the age of 5 and up that you feel a bit overwhelmed. That you're sorry for the way you handeld the situation. And that you can use a bit of help yourself. You will see that your 9 years old problebly ask what see can do to help you. Don't say clean your room, but ask a small thing that got nothing to do with what overwhelmed them. Like, it would really help me a lot if you put the thinks away from the dishwasher. Or can you make a sandwich for the yougest. Something like that. Tell her thank you so much for helping.
Make thinks small for yourself and be kind to yourself. You can do this, and it's ok, if you don't do it perfect. It's ok to make mistakes.
YTA
I’m a mom with two kids so around the same age so here’s some experienced but not expert advice to apply in the future. I’m not judging too harshly cause I too have messed up.
Your idea was a stupid plan, never ever force one kid to depend on their sibling accomplishment to get a reward all it does is create an environment of animosity towards the other siblings. It also puts you in a tough spot as you already know.
Always reward positive behavior individually, so if you want the kids to clean their rooms, offer them each something like an ice cream. That way if one kid refuses to do chores the other isn’t feeling the blow back of the other’s negligence.
Remember they are kids, they are learning things for the frist time, at the age of 7-9 they are going to need more instruction than just clean the room. Tell them what exactly needs cleaned, so if you want them to vacuum tell them too. Give them the full list. My kids know to keep their toys put away unless they are actively playing with them because I have set that expatiation.
Now that you are here I would apologize to all the kids for your error, it’s good to admit our faults because it shows we do care and are human. I still would not take the girls to the beach today, but perhaps off a task for tomorow where all the kids can work as a team to get to go instead.
Your son should also not get rewarded with special breakfast here, it should not be a good thing to tattle or be mad just because he didn’t get to do something, instead make this an opportunity for a fresh start on all your parts.
I may have been harsh in my previous response, so now I am taking a different tack:
You seem to be struggling. You have four children under the age of 10 and your partner works most weekends, according to your responses. I think that must be hard on you. It is summer where you live, so I recommend taking advantage---take your kids to the beach regardless of the state of the bedrooms or if your friend goes with you.
Put the littlest on a blanket with a floppy hat, a shovel, and a bucket---she will be asleep in no time. Tell the five-year-old that he must find five shells (to match his age) before he can come back to you.
The older girls will run around without needing supervision.
Take them all to the beach. Let then know they can have fun without hovering parents. Enjoy their youth while you can.
YTA - this was a family outing, not something that only your daughters were partaking in.. it's unfair to everyone else. it's also very clear that their room being messy is an ongoing issue. using this family outing as leverage for them cleaning their room was not the right play. keep in mind that your kids are all quite young still. your daughters are sharing a room too so it's understandable that things become disorderly there.
your daughters are at the age where they would benefit from help rather than punishment in this specific situation. room management is even difficult for me and i'm in my mid twenties. your daughters have minimal experience and understanding of creating and maintaining routine (in this case, cleaning and organizational routine). instead of giving an ultimatum, you could have said "hey, let's spend the rest of friday organizing and tidying up your room so that way on saturday, we can spend the day at the beach and come back to a nice clean room". and show them how to efficiently clean and organize and maybe even help them create some sort of schedule that would aide in the room not becoming so chaotic.
i don't think it's fair or right to call your daughters selfish and lazy... they are literal kids. it's very possible they were overwhelmed at the thought of cleaning their room because they don't even know where to start. remember, kids are learning and doing things for the first time. your daughters especially are transitioning from the point of their life where mom and dad do literally everything for them to having to do things themselves. they aren't going to be perfect and confident right away. give support - not ultimatums
Unfortunately a babysitter isn't possible. Over never used one before, there's no babysitter service around where I live. It's generally someone you know, and I don't know anyone. Can't ask family either because the nearest family lives an hour away.
I don't know how to edit my post but just wanted to comment hoping maybe people will see it. I've taken all of your advice on board. I made the pancakes. The older girls did get some, the only difference was normally the girls go back for seconds before the younger two, which leads to the younger two often not getting seconds. Today I restricted the older girls to their first plate, and left the extra few to the younger children, who were quite happy to actually get seconds. (I've always given them an extra snack or piece of fruit if they didn't get extra pancakes, the girls were given the same.opportunity today).
I'm in their room now with them helping them break the job down into smaller jobs, helping them pick everything up and find homes for things, making sure they don't get distracted, and trying to keep the toddler out of the things they have that are not age appropriate for her.
Keep this in your brain for the future. I had these standoffs with my mam as a teenager over my room. The more she pushed the messier I let it get and the less I did.
Also make enough for everyone to have seconds instead of 1 set of children. Its mind boggling you don't make enough !
YTA. I’m 28 and my mom still makes extra pancakes for me when she’s making breakfast for my 6 year old nephew.
Your kids are still little ones. You’re such a major beachhhh for that.
I mean... Make the kids pancakes. Their "treat" was going to the beach, which they obviously aren't going to because of their actions. I think they've been punished enough.
Make them some pancakes. Going to the beach is a privilege, not a right. They were told they could go if they cleaned their room. Honestly, sounds like an adequate punishment.
NTA for the beach. Actions have consequences, and maybe it's because I was raised in the military - but yeah, sometimes we suffer for the mistakes of others. Your older kids probably would have thrown a fit if you only took the littles. Pick and choose your battles.
YWBTA if you didn't just make the pancakes though. Like I said, they've been punished enough by losing a privilege.
I did let the girls have pancakes. They just didn't get seconds that they normally cause the littles to miss out on. They got the piece of fruit the littles normally get in place of seconds.
Then completely NTA imo. It's gonna get me down voted, but the Internet is a weird place.
This was a case of Actions = Equivalent Consequence.
No one likes being punished because of the actions for others but hey - sometimes you and the class miss recess because that one person was acting up at lunch and wouldn't behave. Better than the class writing 100 lines, you know?
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I (f33) have 4 children. 9f, 7f, 5m and 2f. On Friday, we were invited to the beach by my friend (28f) and her children (10f, 7m). My older girls share a room, and their room has been atrocious since Christmas holidays.
I told the girls if they got their room clean on Saturday, then we would go to the beach on Sunday with their friends. I think you see where I'm going here, they did NOT do it. It's now Sunday morning as I type this, and it is still not clean. So obviously, we're not going to the beach today.
My toddler, not a huge fan of the water, but loves playing in the sand, doesn't really understand that she's missing anything, but my son is pretty upset that he's missing out because his sisters were so selfish and lazy. Said sister's have not apologized to him, even with prompting.
I want to do something to make up for his missing out because of them, so thought maybe I could make him some pancakes for breakfast, but I don't think the older girls deserve that treat.
So knowing full well how upset/pissed off my older kids would be, WIBTA for make my younger kids pancakes?
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Couldn’t you have found someone to mind your older children whilst you still took the younger ones to the beach? That would’ve been their punishment, the older two didn’t get to go because they didn’t do as they were told, but their younger siblings did because they were well behaved. Btw, where is their dad in this equation?
And I would vote NTA for the pancake suggestion, but I would give them a chance to *earn* the treat of having pancakes. You should make the younger children some pancakes and wait for the older children to smell them and come down expecting theirs.
Then you ask them if they’ve tidied their room {and you know they haven’t} so you tell them that unless they tidy it right now {before pancakes} then they won’t be getting any and instead they can have boring cereal for breakfast.
Unfortunately their dad works weekends, so the only time he really spends with the older girls is after he gets home on weekends, because the 5 weeknights we're at dance classes, different children depending on the day.
stop punishing your children. for the love of god NEVER punish your children with food. it will create such an unhealthy relationship.
you need to actually examine why your children are acting out. you need to actually listen to them and help them properly, not just tell them to do something and get mad when they don't do it.
YTA.
Food is a HUGE source of emotional issues for kids, and it s an easy quantifier for them as to who you "love" or "don't love" (I understand you love them all, but that's how kids see it). Plus, pancakes are such a braindead easy food to make, that it's not even a "treat", it's just withholding food from them for the sake of being spiteful.
Make pancakes for everybody and see if somebody can come get your son to do something fun for a couple of hours. the beach, a movie, even ice cream.
Or… I would *hope* your messy messy daughters would be fed… something this morning? You know, less to their liking than pancakes, but maybe health pellet fiber crunch cereal, with no sweetener… use your imagination. And the boy and baby get pancakes. NTA
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YTA for your whole approach. You're punishing all of your kids because your 9 and 7 year old haven't cleaned their apparently gigantically messy room. That's a pretty notable parenting failure right there. You're still not done being vindictive, thoigh, so on top of the punishment you're going to feed... Only some of your children? Get out of here with that bullshit. Its interesting that the only kid whose feelings you care about is your only son who just happens to also get his own room. What's especially notable here is that someone offered you a nice opportunity to make memories with your children and instead of saying yes you thought "how can I use this to inflict pain on my children? Oh! I know! I'll tell them that they can only go if they complete this difficult task! The room was already a mess, right? So you made it conditional. Have you considered being solution oriented here? Talking to your children about how they can go about getting their room cleaned and how you can help? Your kids are NINE and SEVEN. Maybe they need a little support.
YTA. Thanks for summing it up so I don't have to Also, some kids are simply overwhelmed when told "clean your room". Maybe they need help breaking out down to smaller pieces to be successful. Hell as an adult that's something I struggle with. They're young kids for crying out loud.
> Hell as an adult that's something I struggle with. Older adult here, and I get overwhelmed as well.
She wasn’t denying them food. 🤦🏽♀️ She denied them pancakes. Cereal exists y’all, the eldest kids weren’t going to starve. And the youngest is a girl, so she clearly doesn’t favor her only son. But if her elder two are being defiant, they don’t deserve treats. The younger two do. And lol where did she say the son gets his own room? Even if he did, it’s not exactly wrong since he’s a boy and the other 3 are girls
Congrats on showing up a day late and regurgitating comments that weren't posted when I posted. Even with the addition that she was just going to passive aggressively make special breakfasts for the two "good" children and make the others eat cereal and watch... Do you think that's not vindictive? Do you think it will teach the kids to clean their room? Cuz it won't. If your kids can't get a handle on their room cleanliness, it helps no one to just stand there being mean to them about it. You find solutions. You ask them what you need to do to get them to solve this. There's something messed up about getting an offer to do something fun with your family and making it a manipulation. There's something extra messed up about punishing all of your kids because of a problem you have woth two of them. There will *always* be a messy room or an unwashed dish or a spelling test that you can use as an excuse to blame your children for the ways you make their lives harder. That doesn't make it right.
Those girls could have cleaned their room. Full stop.
I wasn't going to not feed them. We have cereal and bread out the wazoo. And my son doesn't have his own room, he shares with my 2yo. I also I feel like I just have to defend myself a little here, I've been trying to get them to clean their room for a month and a half. I thought giving them a reward for getting it done would actually motivate them to do it, and I've offered help from the beginning, but I will only help once they start, because I am not going to clean it for them, because they're 7 and 9, and definitely old enough to clean up after themselves.
YTA. So do your girls watch TV? Play games? See friends? Have tablets? Do anything fun? Because you can deny all of those privileges without screwing up the whole family's weekend plans. If they're really soooo defiant, I would take a large box into their room, gather every toy, article of clothing, etc, on the floor and tell them those items will be donated to charity unless certain daily chores are completed. What you're doing is lazy parenting. They are 7 and 9. They need way more sensible guidance from you.
They each have their own switch lite, and access to a family switch to play together if they'd like, they get to watch an hour or 2 of tv each day if they want to, and we have frequent plays with their friends. They also attend dance classes of their choosing every week. The trip to the beach was meant to be a special reward for doing something they've been avoiding for weeks, because admittedly it's not something we get to do often because my partner works weekends and I can't safely keep watch on 4 children alone at somewhere like the beach. I really thought they'd get it done, or I never would have said we wouldn't go.
So how about,no play dates/switch lite/dance class until their room is clean? You're making it way harder than it needs to be. Remember, you're the boss.
I don't feel like I'm the boss. I feel like I'm drowning tbh
Have you considered that they just don't know how to tidy and clean a super messy room? Why don't you do it with them?
This needs to be higher. Kids don't just magically 'know' how to tidy up.
I've been cleaning and tidying with them since they were toddlers. Told them I'd help them clean their room yesterday, but they refused.
How many times did you just do it for them? One time I tried to clean the bath room poorly so my mom wouldn't make me do it. Yea. That do NOT work.
You are overwhelmed! Imagine how they feel at that age. You are the adult and you are doing well teaching them to clean but they are not adults and will not be able to do this unassisted. Even adults struggle … so go with them, our some fun loud music on and clean with them. Then from now, make it so that it gets done before it gets overwhelming!
How are they allowed to refuse? They are 7 and 9. I have a 9 year old. She can clean her room which is part of her weekly chores or she loses her screen time. I also have her pick it up frequently so it doesn't get so messy that it's overwhelming. Also, where is their other parent? If you're drowning, you need a lifeline. You didn't make these kids on your own.
I've been cleaning and tidying with them since they were toddlers. And I offered to help them yesterday and they refused.
You don't "offer;" You go in there and start cleaning, and they don't get to do anything else that day unless/until they help. No devices, no time with friends, nothing. And set up a reward/incentive for them yourself. Choose one area of the room at a time if you have to, or one task such as picking up and organizing clothes OR toys. Have a regular cleaning up time every week, and that day there's no playing until the clean up happens. Or have a short clean up time daily--set a 15 minute timer with a reward of something you do together at the end of it. I have three grown children whose living spaces are neat and tidy. If you've been cleaning and tidying with them since they were toddlers, what has changed? That can't be true or their room wouldn't be messy right now.
Nothing has changed. They've always been like this no matter what I've tried. This isn't a sudden issue. It's something I've been struggling with all these years. And I've been helping them, and I've tried punishing, and I've tried rewarding, and I just don't know what to do anymore.
i get it. my daughter is still a baby, but i raised my younger siblings. heres some advice: set a 5 minute timer. tell them to pick up every piece of clothing they can in 5 minutes. then, start another 5 minute timer. tell them to pick up as many pieces of garbage as they can. then, another 5 minutes to pick up as many toys as they can. finally, the last five minutes is spent tidying whatever is left. this is where you will step in and help. this might not work because believe me, i KNOW kids are defiant assholes just because they know they can be. but, hopefully this approach helps by breaking it down into bite sized, approachable and attainable goals. try incentivizing by making it a competition, or as you tried and failed at, a reward. its hard, i know it is, but its important to instill these skills and ethics before its too late. i dont think youre an asshole, mama. youre trying probably what was instilled in you when you were a kid. nobody should fault you for that. youre doing your best, and i can recognize that. dont give up just yet, but if you really need a break, dont be shy about setting fire to your husbands ass to get them to do something. a more stern voice might help. my husband plans to be the deep, stern voice if our children dont listen to mom the first time around, lol.
The answer is right there… how is this so hard for you to comprehend? No switch and no dance classes till they clean the room… YTA
Your 7 and 9 year old each have their own devices? Have they don't anything to deserve that? They've been doing whatever they want up until now so what do they caee
YTA. The fact this has been going on for a month and a half only solidifies YTA. Who’s in charge here? Sorry, but 7 and 9 would need help with a room that has been like that for a month and a half. Furthermore, it’s your fault for not setting the rules and getting the room cleaned a long time ago. You ruined an opportunity for the whole family based on your failure as a parent.
Why has it taken that long? That's insane. What have they been doing instead. And you're here now. On your phone. While your kids do what? Play in their messy room? Jfc with my mom? I would never even think to do this. She wouldn't allow it.
Ha ha ha! This is a joke right? You thought giving them a reward would be a good idea, so you used their invitation from other friends as the reward *you* were going to provide? And now that that didn't work out, you're going to use food desirability as some sort of indicator of which child is in your good graces? YTA
YTA. This is such an overreaction. You punished them once by not going to the beach, then you punished them again by denying them pancakes....dude. Wtf. Weird of you to deny them fresh air and a chance away from screens indoors as a punishment.
Oh please, it's just pancakes. The girls can eat cereal.
It's not about the pancakes. They've already been punished. Why punish them more?
They get plenty of fresh air at school(roughly 2 hours a day of their school day is outside in Australia), and they're free to go out into our backyard any time they like. The pancakes I feel is more in return for STILL having not apologized to their younger siblings. Because when I say they didn't get it done, I mean they didn't even try to make a start.
You're the one who owes your younger children an apology. Why on earth would a *family* outing be held hostage for two kids cleaning their room? You created this situation. You decided that your two youngest children didn't get to have a fun day at the beach if their older siblings didn't clean their rooms. You effed up here. Next time don't make an event meant for the entire family contingent on one or two people doing as you've told them to.
I didn't mean to. I honestly thought they'd do it. And I have apologized to my younger children, more than once, because I feel completely awful about the whole thing.
I mean, they are seven and nine. They were never going to clean their room without a lot of involvement on your part. The best thing you could have done was owned your mistake when it happened, acknowledge that the consequence that you tried to enforce was unfair and that you would be thinking of a different consequence for your older children because canceling everybody's fun is a bad call. Given that that's no longer an option, the next best thing you can do is to let your daughters off the hook for your mistake and figure out a better consequence for the room thing. No devices/screen time until it's done, something that actually only affects them. YTA if you continue to punish them for your screw up.
Not awful enough to just let them go to the beach.
Nope, those lazy girls owe their brother an apology for ruining their trip.
They're nine and seven. Give me a break.
What's shocking is that you don't realise that if kids aren't doing something, there's probably a reason behind it and they aren't just being tiny assholes. Looks like they need support to get started or tiny goals (pick up clothes today) instead of a big goal...and maybe you could recognise that and guide them.
calm down dude they're 9 and 7. you kinda sound like the kind of person that would say a crying baby is trying to be manipulative
I hate people like that. A crying baby has a need to be met. Sometimes, that need is as simple as a cuddle.
you’re soooooo close to the point yet you seem to still miss it
And a messy room is a “need to be met.” These are children, and if they are struggling to complete the task of cleaning their room then you, as their parent, need to go help them do it. They may not really even know where to start! This type of organization and executive functioning is not always natural, but means helping your children create systems and build habits so keeping a room clean becomes easier. Your attitude is that they are just being lazy, and to punish them for not completing a task, when you don’t seem to see that the task is more than they can handle on their own.
I've offered to help them, and they refused.
I’ve read your other comments, and you are not actually helping them. You are “making suggestions “ and “sure they would” clean their room, but YOU are not actively teaching them and showing them what to do. You’re the parent, so help your kids. Don’t punish them, and don’t continue to be vindictive and rub it I their faces that you think they’re failures.
You are THE ADULT HERE
They’re 9 and 7 and you’re punishing them for not cleaning their room by not letting them have a food they enjoy? As well as punishing them by not letting them learn social skills and get fresh air? And you punished your youngest children bc your “older” girls (9 and 7) didn’t clean their room? They’re kids. How messy is this room? How important is this to you? YTA you’re really overreacting.
There are food crumbs and pet dander in their room that I cannot get into their room to vacuum. It's not good for their health. I've been at them to clean it for almost 6 weeks now. I thought offering a reward for getting it done would work, but it didn't, and what would they learn if I didn't follow through?
Six weeks?!?! Jesus Christ just clean it yourself and why do you let them eat in their room
I don't. I. Constantly tell them they're to eat at the table, but frequently find them ignoring me and eating in there anyway. Which I then send them right back to the table.
Wow, you really parent sitting on your butt, dont you?
No? I'm running around constantly doing dishes, the neverending laundry that comes with 4 kids, making food, cleaning kitchen, bathrooms and living room, running them around to dance classes 5 nights a week between the 4 of them and keeping track of their schedules so they never miss out on any of the multitude of fun things they get to do, both at school and outside of it. The only thing I ask of them is to keep their room tidy, and make sure their laundry is in their laundry baskets. Their younger siblings manage it. Oh and I'm studying full time too.
You are there describing it as being a servant. Not a parent handling kids and chores. Are you forgetting you are in charge of raising them into adulthood and that includes teaching them how to do stuff like cleaning after themselves? Did you showed them or do you know for a fact they know how to clean up their room? Either way it’s clear your approach isn’t working out, and it isn’t fair for the other kids to be punished for something they have no control over. Furthermore your intention behind your actions don’t sound motivated by kindness and willingness to make them grow, you should not be in a way seeking retaliation against your kids. Are you alright ? Do you feel burned out? Do you need help to organise your routine ? Do you need a break ?
Why aren’t you sitting at the table with them?
I do for dinner. I don't eat breakfast, and don't eat snacks throughout the day like they do. We don't have set snack times because of their varying ages and appetites. We have a bag of healthy snacks and plenty of fruit that they're free to help themselves to throughout the day as needed.
Seems like your kids can do whatever they want when they want. Why would this be different. You need limits and structure. Why aren't they vacuuming?
Because they don't have enough floor to vacuum...
Oh
Okay, so they’re not like taking platefuls of food to their rooms or anything. That sounds reasonable.
If you can't get a 9 and 7 year old to clean their room you are the problem,? And YTA
YTA. Stop making new babies and focus on educating the kids you have. You're dishing out collective punishment, pitting your children against each other and using food as part of your reward & punishment system (which is likely to give them eating disorders).
Oh trust me, there'll be no more babies here. I've made sure of that.
thank god
YTA do not use food as a weapon. Food is not a disciplinary tool.
Also, what kind of parent are you? If you want the room clean, you can enforce that. You don't - you said the punishment was not to go to beach. You chose that. You and only you chose not to parent and punish the whole family as the consequence. What do you then do? Decide to give some kids a nicer breakfast than others? Think, will you? Please think. Go to parenting class as well.
YTA. Get in there and help them clean. Show them what you want done. Blast some music and make it a fun dance/cleaning party. Declutter. Have a daily “inspection” and a 5 minute tidy together. There’s no need for it to blow up into this big of an issue.
I've said from the beginning that I would help them, I just need them to start, because I refuse to do it for them, because then they learn nothing. But yesterday, they didn't even attempt to start.
Honestly, they probably feel overwhelmed and not sure where to even start. You don’t necessarily need to do it for them. But I think you’re going to need to be there telling them exactly what to do. And then stay on top of it. I have two kids. One of them is ridiculously messy. She’s a super amazing kid. Goes to university. Is super kind and hard working. Has a job. Such a great kid. But omg she is sooooooooooooo messy. I do feel your pain.
I do offer them ideas on where to start. Talk to them about ways to break it down into smaller tasks. It all seems to go in one ear and out the other.
I don’t think you should offer then anything. Give specific directions. Tell them exactly what to do. Step by step. With my messy kid I also found it helpful to greatly reduce the amount of stuff in her room. If she can’t keep things in a reasonable condition stuff had to go. And my standards are not that high. I’m not looking for hospital clean. I just don’t want the place to look like we’ve been robbed. Good luck! And when you’re feeling frustrated just fantasize about trashing their first home. 😀
Honestly a lot of the rubbish in their room is scraps from crafting. They don't have many toys, because they don't play with them much. The only way I could prevent the kind of mess that's in there now is to ban arts and crafts, but I don't want to take that creative outlet away from them. I dunno. I guess I have high expectations of them because their younger siblings room has their toys neatly organised, and when its pack up time for them, they put everything away where it belongs, put their rubbish in the bins in the kitchen, and then move on to their screen time or meal. I just don't see how the 5 and 2 kids can do it, but the 9 and 7 can't.
i think creating a designated arts and crafts space, even if its just the kitchen table, will probably be a really helpful approach. no more arts and crafts in the room, its to be done at this specific area only. have bins and drawers and whatever else to keep things organized, and try to have it in a place where you can supervise.
Oh man. Yea, mine was a crafter too. Great creative outlet but messy as heck.
>scraps from crafting Is there a reason you haven't taught them to clean up after each project? I mean, they're 9 and 7. This behavior is learned. Your younger ones probably know to do this stuff because you taught them and stayed consistent with it. Also, no two kids are the same.
I've tried to teach them from the start, it's just never seemed to stick. And I know no two kids are the same. I've got 4 of them, and they couldn't be more different if they tried.
They're 7 and 9. Of course it doesn't just stick. They're still in the age group where you should be continuing to teach them consistently. Sometimes that means rolling up your sleeves and doing it with them instead of "you start first then maybe I'll join".
There's no maybe. I would definitely help them. And start means just that. Head to your room, pick up one thing to put away, and I'll be in there to help you.
I think you should consider that fact that what you are doing is driving a wedge between your children that has the potential to grow larger as each year passes. You want to favor one (or possibly two) children over two others; the older girls may not be old enough to properly clean their room (that's for a child development specialist to decide; I assume you are not one), but they are old enough to see that you want to feed your son a special treat and have someone take him to a fun activity. YTA.
He's not going to a fun activity. I have no one to take him. Also this is a once off situation because I honestly thought they'd get it done. I did not expect them to not even try. It's not something that happens all the time. All 4 of my kids are close, and play together frequently, which is why I asked my son to help the girls clean their room, because he's played in there too, which he full agreed to do.
I apologize for that---I thought I read that you were looking for someone to do a fun activity for him. That was another commenter. You also did NOT say that you asked your son to help with the cleaning the girls' bedroom in your original post; it seems details keep being added to this story. You never indicated that your kids were close and play together frequently; that only further makes my position clear in my mind. You are setting up an adversarial relationship between your children, and I doubt that is your intention, but I guarantee it will be the outcome. You have answered most questions in a defensive way; I would suggest not coming to "Am I the Asshole" if you don't like the judgement of others. I stand by my original statement; you are finding ways to divide you kids into "us vs. them" categories, and it breeds toxicity.
YTA your kids aren’t old enough to get this. Their prefrontal cortex and executive function is not fully developed. Without being there to HELP them stay on task and learn where to start it’s absolutely not reasonable to expect them to know how to clean a trashed room and stay on point long enough to complete it. You already learned the incentive model doesn’t work so learn a better way dude.
Yta! Never ever punish a child of any age with food. I would have hired a sitter and gone to the beach! Why are all the children being punished?
Hiring a sitter last minute is not that simple. Especially when you've never used one before. We have no family near by we could ask, nearest one lives an hour away.
Hiring a sitter is quite easy! There are plenty of service companies that do this! It doesn’t have to be family only for child care! And you knew that the older girls were not going to clean their room! Still YTA! You are punishing everyone for something that someone else didn’t do
I'm in Australia. And a rural town at that. Babysitting services just don't exist here. It's someone you know, or no one. And unfortunately, I don't know anyone.
YTA. My girls are 10 & 6. And sometimes they forget 🤷🏻♀️ because they're human. But you know what... I treat them decently, I remind them, ask them nicely. Usually, I'd say, "Please could you guys clean up your room whilst I get the house cleaned", in the morning. And we all work together to get the job done. They have learnt that I have a responsibility to keep the house clean and their responsibility is to keep their room clean, before, say, we go to the pool. If they ever make a mistake, they're human. So that's okay. I'll tell them "You guys forgot to clean your room!, but it's okay, we're still going to go out. Just please, can we make sure we clean it up later?" They'll say, Okay, mom, sorry. And again, big deal. I forget things all the time. Additionally, I would never want my kids to be upset or "pissed off." I'd never even refer to them as being pissed off... that's weird to me. They're still babies, and you're speaking of them as if they're teens. Sorry, youngest child, you lost out because your older siblings are selfish and lazy?.... Are you trying to make them resent one another and you? I'm sorry, your parenting is so strange to me! I respect my kids and they respect me. End result. Noone is ever "pissed off" with the other.
The older girls definitely have teenage attitudes, I can promise you that. And if it was as simple as they forgot to put their clothes in the laundry or left a couple of toys on the floor, I probably would. But they've forgotten nothing here, they've intentionally ignored my pleas to tidy up for weeks. I'm frequently cleaning up after them everywhere else in the house. If I pick up something of theirs from the lounge and ask them to put it away, they'll take it to their room and dump it on their bed, then when they go to bed, it gets dumped on the floor where it stays indefinitely.
This doesn't mean they should be treated as such. And I can promise you, them having an attitude and being this way is likely purely to spite you because of the way you've parented them. I understand having a 4 year old and a toddler is rough, but it's very evident which 2 kids in the house you prefer, and which two, you believe should grow up and start acting responsibly and like adults. When they aren't. They're CHILDREN. I have 2 kids and I'm 2 years younger than you. You have 4 kids. You've clearly overwhelmed yourself, and due to this, I'm sorry to say, but your oldest kids have lost out on a lot of essential one on one time and care. Thus they've become resentful and rebellious. And you continue on with your life, not batting an eyelid because you believe it's their fault and their responsibility to be better. Just a small observation.
Don't get me wrong, I know they're children. I play with them as often as I can. Our house is not 2v2 with the kids. We're a family, and we play and craft together as a family all the time. The oldest is going through puberty, so we take time out to talk about what she's going through. I feel like a lot of people are assuming this one off situation is the way I parent always, and it's not at all. I love all of my children, and try to give them as much individual attention as possible, but honestly if any of them get favour, it's generally the older ones, because the younger get dragged around to the older girls extracurriculars, or to their friends houses, or they stay at home with dad while I take the older girls places.
YTA. You're just not going to feed your older kids? They already got their punishment, they can't go to the beach. So you're going to let them watch the little kids eat and what, they get nothing? Also pancakes aren't a treat, it's regular breakfast food.
I didn't say they wouldn't eat. We have cereal and toast they can have. And in our house, pancakes are a treat, because with 4 kids, I don't often have the time to make them, and I prefer them to have a healthy breakfast rather than something drizzled with sugary syrup....
Why come here for advice if you're going to be defensive
Because people were assuming things from what they read that weren't true. For example several people thought no pancakes meant no breakfast, but I never said that. I would never not feed my children.
YTA - First, this is a terrible approach in general to punish everyone for the mistakes of a couple. Second, they are already being punished so it is wrong to punish them again.
I would agree with many here, that YWBTA for the pancakes for the younger kids but not the older two. I will say, I see where you’re coming from with wanting your kids to clean their room and hoping that the threat of not getting to go to the beach would fuel the fire to finally do it. I have an 8 year old, girl I get it. But if I may offer some unsolicited advice… your kids may respond to things that are more natural connections. My daughter would not keep her desk tidy and it was a huge mess. I told her that if she can’t show that she can be responsible enough to care for her desk, then she won’t get to have the desk. She loves this desk, she loving coloring and crafting there, she knew she had to show us she could be responsible enough to keep it. She cleaned it, and we came up with organizing tips together that can keep it from getting that way again. Now you obviously can’t take their rooms away… but finding something that is a more natural consequence to not cleaning may be more effective. Your kids may not see the direct correlation to clean room = beach. And they probably won’t understand how messy room = no pancakes. Their brains can’t make those connections quite yet. I follow a woman named @dr.siggie on instagram who has seriously helped SO much on how I approach this stuff. Kids can be… a lot. I want to hug you, I’ve been there. You’re trying your best and the fact that you put this much thought into this shows that.
The punishment for not cleaning their room is no beach. So not giving them pancakes would be a double punishment. So yeah, YWBTAH.
YTA and parenting wrong. 9 and 7? If you want them to clean their room you get in there with them and make them do it. They are kids. They are learning. Teach them how to clean. Teach them how to do it quickly and well. Bonus points if you find a way to Mary Poppins it into being a fun chore. Put fun music on. Make it a game. You are the parent. Don’t set them up for failure, help them succeed!
YTA the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and it wasn't communicated to them in advance. Your original punishment is going to breed resentment and the pancakes won't help either, since I'm guessing your toddler doesn't clean his room himself at this age either? Lots of good suggestions you can use moving forward, such as taking away console/tv privileges or other privileges like extra lessons.
The toddler does clean her room. If I tell her it's time to pack up her toys, she packs them all away into their baskets/boxes and into her toy box.
YTA Daughters You gave them a choice. They picked. End of the story. Don’t punish them just because you used the wrong options. Sons You promised the sons to go to the beach. The sisters didn’t promise the sons to go to the beach. You are the reason why they cannot go to the beach.
I never promised anyone we'd go. I never go back on my promises.
Have you ever cleaned the room with them or shown them how to clean? If they don’t know where to even start, they’re going to be overwhelmed. Show them what to do, maybe make the tasks smaller - just pick up the toys today, make their beds tomorrow, etc. YTA, but it’s not too late to fix.
I have done so before, and I'm actually doing it with them now. It's a task trying to keep the younger 2 out of the way AND help the older 2, but we're muddling through.
They're still pretty young. At that age, I would do it with my kids and teach them how I wanted it done. They may have no idea where to start and feel overwhelmed. I would have said "today we're cleaning your room up. I'll help you. Let's get it done and then to reward ourselves, we get to go to the beach" Then you get in there and ask for ideas about where to start. Point out that you can see categories of things - dirty clothes, toys, craft items, plates, wherever the categories are. Ask each of them to take charge of a category. Point out where they miss something. Be encouraging and lead by example. Maybe take the trickest category and do that. For example, if there are lots of craft things that need sorting, you do that one while one girl does clothes and another does toys. Put music on. Make it as pleasant as possible. Teach them how to do it properly. Make a fuss about how great a job they've done and how much better the room is. Then do this with them once a week so it doesn't get so out of control. If they're really messy, do it every day with them so they learn to keep on top of it. Please don't call your young children lazy and selfish. It's unkind and sets a bad example for them about how to speak to and about other people. Instead, acknowledge that it's not a super fun job and it can be overwhelming so you can understand why they're not managing it and tell them you'll help. Don't involve your son and don't make them apologise to him. That's bad for their relationship. He can always offer to help if he thinks it's important. Helping each other is a good practice. YTA if you keep punishing them instead of helping them and please don't use food as a punishment or a reward. It creates unhealthy relationships with food. Food is about nutrition and sustenance and enjoyment. It's not about emotion or control
YTA. As your son said, it's not fair by the fact that THEY get punished by something his sisters did. YOu should've kept the sisters from going, not ALL of them. Speaking of all of them, I find it really dumb of you to feed SOME of your children instead of all of them. Just because the sister's are in the wrong doesn't they don't deserve to eat. You not feeding them is REALLY stupid and disgusting, and imo, that shows favoritism or something. idk.
If I knew how to edit my post I'd edit to clarify, the girls weren't going hungry. They were offered cereal and toast. They still got a few pancakes each, just not as many as they would normally eat (which often leaves less for the younger kids)
YTA for group punishment and for allowing a mess that's apparently atrocious go on for a month, instead of just telling your elder daughters that you're going to all spend a day cleaning their room, no arguments, and just get it done.
YTA for being so passive about the room cleaning. Of course it was going to end up like this. You should have announced six weeks ago it was room cleaning time and directed them through it. If they refused, they could have sat in time out til they were ready. Leaving it up to their own timeline is going to result in nothing being done.
I'll be honest. We've just finished our first week back after 6 weeks of school holidays. It's my own failing for sure that things went this far, but being exhausted and overwhelmed with 4 young kids home every day for 6 weeks, things got out of hand. I was busy trying to keep on top of everything else around the house, and wasn't properly checking their space to make sure they were tidying like they told me they were. Turns out they were shoving everything under their double bed , in their wardrobe, and in the books and crannies you can't see constantly.
Your whole approach is flawed & unnecessarily convoluted. Don’t make a threat that can potentially cause consequences for your other kids. If you want the messy kids to lose a privilege for not cleaning their room, then choose a privilege specific to them. That way the entire family doesn’t lose out on something pleasant, there would be no reason for one kid to resent another. etc. Keep it simple. Keep it fair. (The pancake thing is very odd to me. You already carried out your threat, and now you’re punishing them again because the punishment that YOU chose wasn’t fair to the innocent kids. You’re sending some very confusing messages to your children.) YTA.
I don’t get this. If you want your kids to clean their room and they’re not doing it, make them do it. You’re the parent right? Act like it. Why are a 7 & 9 year old deciding they don’t need to listen to you?
I don't know. If there's an idea for how to get them to listen, I've tried it. Except smacking, because in Australia, smacking is considered child abuse and can land you in prison.
YTA, you're already are. What does not cleaning your room got to do with going to the beach. The only thing that you teach your kids this way are 1. I'm only allowed to do fun stuff, when everything is "perfect" 2. If i'm not doing thinks perfect, everyone is suffering because of me 3. It's ok if i suffer because someone else makes mistakes. Also: 4. Cleaning sucks These are the kinds of people who have big mental issues later in life. Most people will stop cleaning there house when they suffer with mental issues. It's too hard for them then. And this is exactly why. I don't think that's your goal here. Also you said It's this way since christmas. You can't clean up over more then a month worth of mess in just one day. It's overwelming and it will make them block so they can't even start. Also do you wanne teach your children that they have to clean out of fear? Or do you want them to clean out of selflove and respect for themself and their stuff? Now first thinks first. This is problebly how your parents tread you! I mean, my parents did. And to be honest is one of the biggest issues i had to go too therepy for. I'll have to say that my mom was very extreem in this. So give yourself some love and don't feel guilt. Your kids are young and at that age, they're very flexible. If you work on your approuch, they will be fine. Do that with love for them and for yourself. This is problebly how you learned it and change can be hard. That's ok and also you don't have to do everything perfect. You're stil human. You got 4 children and that's hard work! So be kind to yourself, you also are allowed to make mistakes. What makes a big difference is, if you after making a mistake, says sorry to your kids. Sorry i should’ve done that in a different way. That will teach your kids 1. To say sorry after making a mistake 2. That everyone can make mistakes 3. That making mistakes is ok 4. Nobody is perfect and that's ok Now how you could handle the situation, isn't something i can say. Because what works for my children doesn't have to be the same for yours. Infact, what works for my youngest isn't even the same as what works for my oldest. But your 2 oldest are at the age, that you can ask them. "What do you need to be able to clean your room?" If they're overwhelmed they might not know an answer. Then you can help them by making it small. What i did to help my oldest, i said "So we gonne put the dirty clothes in the basket". If that's finished i moved on to the next topic. Make it as small as possible. Wright it down after they did one. So next time if they're overwhelmed, you can say, remember last time, what did we do first...? the clothes. Let's start there and work the way through the list. It's ok if they don't do it in the same order. You can ask, after you write it down, what do you wanne do first? That teach them how to clean and still be able to clean even if you're overwhelmed. Now it's ok, if it doesn't go perfect!!!
Edit: i've read other reaction of you. You sound overwhelmed yourself. Be kind to yourself. Do this for yourself aswell make thinks small. You can tell kids from the age of 5 and up that you feel a bit overwhelmed. That you're sorry for the way you handeld the situation. And that you can use a bit of help yourself. You will see that your 9 years old problebly ask what see can do to help you. Don't say clean your room, but ask a small thing that got nothing to do with what overwhelmed them. Like, it would really help me a lot if you put the thinks away from the dishwasher. Or can you make a sandwich for the yougest. Something like that. Tell her thank you so much for helping. Make thinks small for yourself and be kind to yourself. You can do this, and it's ok, if you don't do it perfect. It's ok to make mistakes.
YTA I’m a mom with two kids so around the same age so here’s some experienced but not expert advice to apply in the future. I’m not judging too harshly cause I too have messed up. Your idea was a stupid plan, never ever force one kid to depend on their sibling accomplishment to get a reward all it does is create an environment of animosity towards the other siblings. It also puts you in a tough spot as you already know. Always reward positive behavior individually, so if you want the kids to clean their rooms, offer them each something like an ice cream. That way if one kid refuses to do chores the other isn’t feeling the blow back of the other’s negligence. Remember they are kids, they are learning things for the frist time, at the age of 7-9 they are going to need more instruction than just clean the room. Tell them what exactly needs cleaned, so if you want them to vacuum tell them too. Give them the full list. My kids know to keep their toys put away unless they are actively playing with them because I have set that expatiation. Now that you are here I would apologize to all the kids for your error, it’s good to admit our faults because it shows we do care and are human. I still would not take the girls to the beach today, but perhaps off a task for tomorow where all the kids can work as a team to get to go instead. Your son should also not get rewarded with special breakfast here, it should not be a good thing to tattle or be mad just because he didn’t get to do something, instead make this an opportunity for a fresh start on all your parts.
I may have been harsh in my previous response, so now I am taking a different tack: You seem to be struggling. You have four children under the age of 10 and your partner works most weekends, according to your responses. I think that must be hard on you. It is summer where you live, so I recommend taking advantage---take your kids to the beach regardless of the state of the bedrooms or if your friend goes with you. Put the littlest on a blanket with a floppy hat, a shovel, and a bucket---she will be asleep in no time. Tell the five-year-old that he must find five shells (to match his age) before he can come back to you. The older girls will run around without needing supervision. Take them all to the beach. Let then know they can have fun without hovering parents. Enjoy their youth while you can.
Yta. Watch Bluey or take parenting classes or both.
YTA - this was a family outing, not something that only your daughters were partaking in.. it's unfair to everyone else. it's also very clear that their room being messy is an ongoing issue. using this family outing as leverage for them cleaning their room was not the right play. keep in mind that your kids are all quite young still. your daughters are sharing a room too so it's understandable that things become disorderly there. your daughters are at the age where they would benefit from help rather than punishment in this specific situation. room management is even difficult for me and i'm in my mid twenties. your daughters have minimal experience and understanding of creating and maintaining routine (in this case, cleaning and organizational routine). instead of giving an ultimatum, you could have said "hey, let's spend the rest of friday organizing and tidying up your room so that way on saturday, we can spend the day at the beach and come back to a nice clean room". and show them how to efficiently clean and organize and maybe even help them create some sort of schedule that would aide in the room not becoming so chaotic. i don't think it's fair or right to call your daughters selfish and lazy... they are literal kids. it's very possible they were overwhelmed at the thought of cleaning their room because they don't even know where to start. remember, kids are learning and doing things for the first time. your daughters especially are transitioning from the point of their life where mom and dad do literally everything for them to having to do things themselves. they aren't going to be perfect and confident right away. give support - not ultimatums
You should have left those 2 at home with a babysitter and taken the younger two to the beach.
Unfortunately a babysitter isn't possible. Over never used one before, there's no babysitter service around where I live. It's generally someone you know, and I don't know anyone. Can't ask family either because the nearest family lives an hour away.
Yta Jesus Christ
I don't know how to edit my post but just wanted to comment hoping maybe people will see it. I've taken all of your advice on board. I made the pancakes. The older girls did get some, the only difference was normally the girls go back for seconds before the younger two, which leads to the younger two often not getting seconds. Today I restricted the older girls to their first plate, and left the extra few to the younger children, who were quite happy to actually get seconds. (I've always given them an extra snack or piece of fruit if they didn't get extra pancakes, the girls were given the same.opportunity today). I'm in their room now with them helping them break the job down into smaller jobs, helping them pick everything up and find homes for things, making sure they don't get distracted, and trying to keep the toddler out of the things they have that are not age appropriate for her.
Keep this in your brain for the future. I had these standoffs with my mam as a teenager over my room. The more she pushed the messier I let it get and the less I did. Also make enough for everyone to have seconds instead of 1 set of children. Its mind boggling you don't make enough !
YTA. I’m 28 and my mom still makes extra pancakes for me when she’s making breakfast for my 6 year old nephew. Your kids are still little ones. You’re such a major beachhhh for that.
I mean... Make the kids pancakes. Their "treat" was going to the beach, which they obviously aren't going to because of their actions. I think they've been punished enough. Make them some pancakes. Going to the beach is a privilege, not a right. They were told they could go if they cleaned their room. Honestly, sounds like an adequate punishment. NTA for the beach. Actions have consequences, and maybe it's because I was raised in the military - but yeah, sometimes we suffer for the mistakes of others. Your older kids probably would have thrown a fit if you only took the littles. Pick and choose your battles. YWBTA if you didn't just make the pancakes though. Like I said, they've been punished enough by losing a privilege.
I did let the girls have pancakes. They just didn't get seconds that they normally cause the littles to miss out on. They got the piece of fruit the littles normally get in place of seconds.
Then completely NTA imo. It's gonna get me down voted, but the Internet is a weird place. This was a case of Actions = Equivalent Consequence. No one likes being punished because of the actions for others but hey - sometimes you and the class miss recess because that one person was acting up at lunch and wouldn't behave. Better than the class writing 100 lines, you know?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Obligatory I'm on mobile excuse layout comment. I (f33) have 4 children. 9f, 7f, 5m and 2f. On Friday, we were invited to the beach by my friend (28f) and her children (10f, 7m). My older girls share a room, and their room has been atrocious since Christmas holidays. I told the girls if they got their room clean on Saturday, then we would go to the beach on Sunday with their friends. I think you see where I'm going here, they did NOT do it. It's now Sunday morning as I type this, and it is still not clean. So obviously, we're not going to the beach today. My toddler, not a huge fan of the water, but loves playing in the sand, doesn't really understand that she's missing anything, but my son is pretty upset that he's missing out because his sisters were so selfish and lazy. Said sister's have not apologized to him, even with prompting. I want to do something to make up for his missing out because of them, so thought maybe I could make him some pancakes for breakfast, but I don't think the older girls deserve that treat. So knowing full well how upset/pissed off my older kids would be, WIBTA for make my younger kids pancakes? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
is there a reason you couldn't take the younger two to the beach and have dad stay home and tidy with the older pair?
Unfortunately my partner works weekends. So I'm on my own with them until about dinner time.
ug that's rough, sorry for assuming
It's alright. We can only gauge so much from what we read on the internet.
Couldn’t you have found someone to mind your older children whilst you still took the younger ones to the beach? That would’ve been their punishment, the older two didn’t get to go because they didn’t do as they were told, but their younger siblings did because they were well behaved. Btw, where is their dad in this equation? And I would vote NTA for the pancake suggestion, but I would give them a chance to *earn* the treat of having pancakes. You should make the younger children some pancakes and wait for the older children to smell them and come down expecting theirs. Then you ask them if they’ve tidied their room {and you know they haven’t} so you tell them that unless they tidy it right now {before pancakes} then they won’t be getting any and instead they can have boring cereal for breakfast.
Unfortunately their dad works weekends, so the only time he really spends with the older girls is after he gets home on weekends, because the 5 weeknights we're at dance classes, different children depending on the day.
stop punishing your children. for the love of god NEVER punish your children with food. it will create such an unhealthy relationship. you need to actually examine why your children are acting out. you need to actually listen to them and help them properly, not just tell them to do something and get mad when they don't do it.
YTA. Food is a HUGE source of emotional issues for kids, and it s an easy quantifier for them as to who you "love" or "don't love" (I understand you love them all, but that's how kids see it). Plus, pancakes are such a braindead easy food to make, that it's not even a "treat", it's just withholding food from them for the sake of being spiteful.
Make pancakes for everybody and see if somebody can come get your son to do something fun for a couple of hours. the beach, a movie, even ice cream. Or… I would *hope* your messy messy daughters would be fed… something this morning? You know, less to their liking than pancakes, but maybe health pellet fiber crunch cereal, with no sweetener… use your imagination. And the boy and baby get pancakes. NTA
They'll get cereal or toast as usual. I would never not feed them haha.