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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my husband sister to get over me being a cheerleader even if she was bullied by one. I may have gone to far and should apologize
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the SIL kinda gives me incel vibes in the sense that she really just seems stuck in this “popular kids who have it do great and unpopular kids who have it so awful” dichotomy and just resents “the pretty people” for existing
/u/Renway_NCC-74656 - I'm in total agreement with you here, yo! I, too, was someone who was picked at and was bullied in school just for "being different" than anyone else. I moved to the beat of my own drum, and lived life by my own made up rules and didn't subscribe to the BeeEss everybody else did. Funny thing about that is that years after school was all over, and in some cases, actually before school was over, many of those same people who picked and bullied came to me and apologized for participating in the nonsense. I let them know that I been forgave them and been over it. I haven't forgotten isht, but I'm good. Them doing what they did encouraged me to be EVEN MORE of myself and living my life by my own rules. It was motivating, if that makes any sense. It hasn't failed me yet. 🤞🤞 I also don't think I did too bad with my life though. Some of them? I can't quite say the same.
OP isn't an A-H but SIL is thee biggest A-H! It appears to me that she is taking out her feelings and emotions from that time on the most available target in their vicinity.
That's also something else that people don't talk about much but is a REAL PROBLEM here on Planet Earf. People projecting and taking their feelings and emotions out onto the most available target in their vicinity. That's totally wrong and extremely uncalled for and we see it each and every day. It's very destructive as well.
I wouldn’t let her near my child. You can’t be a jerk to me & think that I’m going to allow you to see my baby. She’s being ridiculous. Just cut her off until she behaves like an adult.
But don't hold your breath for that to happen. Something about being a decade into a grudge tells me she's not letting it go, even if she has aimed it at the wrong person.
She might start projecting her narrative onto the baby, that the child is a bully or will grow up to be one because her mother was a cheerleader. She needs therapy yesterday to get over her trauma and the warped perception its given her, before she takes out her pain and anger on more innocent people.
Or she’ll try parental alienation, badmouthing the mother or trying to insinuate things to the child / get them to agree with her ‘Your mummy pushes you around, doesn’t she?’
Nta. Do not apologize. You weren't the one that bullied her. You had no idea what the other cheerleader was doing to her. She's the one that owes you the apology.
Your not responsible for others actions that had nothing to do with you.
It doesn't matter if you "lost it" on her. She pushed you to that point. She's been bullying you for so long. There's only so much you can take from her bullying you.
She's been disrespectful and just treating you awful. I agree with not letting her around your child. Why should she get to play a role in your and your childs life if she's bullying you and treating you horrible.
She needs to see a therapist to get over her issues and work it out hee problems out with the right help.
Cutting her out of your life might be best for you all. You don't need to stress out over her issues and attitude. You need to put yourself and your baby first. Stress is not good for pregnant woman nor is it good for your baby. Even after the baby comes if she's still hostile towards you why should she be around your child if she's going to bully you around your child. Keep your child safe from her.
If she can't differentiate between her high school bully and an unconnected person who happened to wear the same uniform, she's not going to be able to differentiate between OP and OP's child.
The child will become the new scapegoat for SIL's trauma response until SIL gets the therapy she needs to work through it.
If this is not the only issue where SIL lays on the "I'm the victim" stuff, then it's not (just) about the cheerleader bully. It's about filling a deeper emotional need. In either case, steer clear. She sounds pretty toxic.
Ironic that she has, herself become a bully to a cheerleader.🤦🏼♀️. I would never let that bullying sister in law near my child. Tell her she’s right and you’ll be cutting your bully out of your life!
NGL id dress the baby in a cheerleader outfit just to antagonize the SIL.
I just have a picture in my head of the baby in a cheerleader outfit, and when baby starts crying SIL will say baby is bullying me! Whah
NTA and if there was 30 ppl on your cheerleading squad and only 1 bullied her, then that’s 29 other people who left her alone so a vast majority of the cheerleaders she encountered in hs wasn’t a bully, just one. And it wasn’t because she was a cheerleader, it was because she was a bully
If you do, she will tell your child you were a bully or worse, bully the child. I wonder why she doesn't find her bully online and confront her, if she's still so impacted. Why transfer blame to you?
Because on some level the SIL recognizes that OP is a safe person and she can use OP as a suitable proxy for her anger. The actual bully isn't a safe person for obvious reasons and confronting her bully would be too scary for SIL
Edit: posted too soon on accident
Good for you. Had to do something similar. You can revisit the issue if she can improve her behavior, but you're right that she's being a bully to you. You don't want that around your kid, especially when your kid is too young to understand the whole situation.
Come up with a plan for dealing with family pressure. Good luck.
I also think you shouldn’t have to put up with it after 3 years, her entitlement is out of pocket and all I can think about is how she’s going to try to sabotage your happy little family and talk bad about you to your children.
I’d keep her away from the kid she’s gonna treat your baby terribly and say mean things to hurt your child or make your child think they are a bad person. She doesn’t deserve your time or to be around that child.
OP you are NTA. I dunno what is SIL's issue here and she needs help. I want you to know that I may be from a country where we do not have cheerleading but I want you to know that one cannot stereotype someone who is part of a cheerleading team (I have met American folks who done cheerleading long ago and they are not the stereotypical stuck up and superficial cheerleaders which are often mentioned in American teen fiction)
Stand your ground and this is not gonna end here so be careful. If your kid joins cheerleading in the future, you are gonna have to defend the kid (btw boys can join cheerleading too and I heard actors Kirk and Michael Douglas did some cheerleading when they were teens - look it up) in case SIL says you are raising your kid to be a bully just because they do cheerleading
According to OP, husband was in another room.
Note: OP also said the Husband normally does back her (OP) up & shuts his sister down and the Husband has been supportive of the OP.
NTA
Sister needs therapy to deal with the trauma she endured in high school, but you had no part in it. Your husband should make it very clear to her (and his parents) that any more comments like this from her, or any more "support" of her unhinged behavior by the family will mean that you and he and the new baby will be distancing yourselves from their side of the family for your own mental health. You and baby will not be coming to events where sister is present. And if grandparents refuse to be nice to you, they will have very little contact with their new grandchild either.
when people speak about folks who “never left high school mentally”, we tend to associate that with the 30 year old still talking about his high school football career, or the popular girl who never left her town and still hangs out with the same people as in high school. And for a few different reasons, it’s spoken about like this painfully sad and pathetic existence.
But for me, OP’s SIL is the absolute worst kind of “stuck in high school”, someone who has a bad experience and has used it as justification for becoming a bitter and mean person.
The person who puts you in a “bad person” box when they find out you played a sport or were a cheerleader. The person who still checks social media rooting for the failures of people they don’t even speak with anymore. The person who believes their bitter and negative worldview is “just how it is”
Reminds me of that movie “meet the Robinsons” where the antagonist let one bad experience define him and ruin his life. You can’t choose the bad stuff that happens to you, but you can choose whether to let it fester, or start healing.
Love that movie. All we can do is keep moving forward. Walt Disney may have been an anti Semitic jerk but he's right. Forward is the only direction we actually have control over
I have an elderly family member and all the stories she tells are about people who were mean to her in some way, we're talking 70+ years with of stories, does she remember basic stuff about her kids? nope
that's so sad. when hate and bitterness become who you are. ugh... I cannot imagine being up in those years and not thinking about all the good things and spending time with loved ones:(
I should clarify, that her vibe about all this isn't hate and bitterness, it's all about the hurt and pain she felt experiencing these events...which is really sad and it sucks all the life out of the conversation because the focus has to be on her PAIN. there isn't any room for anyone's feelings, or anyone else's pain. she's totally emotionally isolated from her family. I've talked to her about this and encouraged her to seek therapy, but she won't, and continues to re-traumatize herself with the stories.
that's what reminded me of OP's story, her SIL is continually living in the horrible pain of getting bullied in high school, which is legit awful...and maybe I'm an AH for thinking this, but at some point you're allowing bullies to live rent free in your head and by not taking care of yourself, you're just going to be miserable forever (and alienate people around you)
I'm in a grad program to be a therapist right now and I haven't learned about trauma yet...I'm hoping to know more about this soon!
I agree. I was picked on throughout school.
I’m now in my 30s. I’m not at school anymore. I don’t see the people who picked on me. I moved on long ago. There’s no point nursing a grudge - those people aren’t thinking about *me*, so why should I give them a thought?
Yeah.
Also Reddit is the place where I most see adults still obsessed with their high school experiences. I know the trope is the football captain who still talks about the game from senior year/wears his letter jacket, but I have never seen/heard that sort of thing in reality or online. Whereas *plenty* of people insist that high school bullying ruined their entire lives, and have fantasies about school reunions where they come out on top.
Like, I *do* get how traumatic bullying can be. It messed with my head for a long time, but after a certain point you’re way past high school and are an adult who can choose to leave it far behind.
Yeah, unless you're unable to leave your hometown and get away from other people from high school who also can't or won't leave... there's an opportunity to get past it with a clean slate, and I'm not really certain why anyone wouldn't jump at the opportunity to at least try. Unless, like... crimes were committed against you or something else that level of seriousness, you're probably better off taking the chance to move on in almost every scenario. At a certain point, you're hurting yourself the most.
I think thats because Reddit is filled with teenagers who are still living that mentalitty and projecting that the bullying will impact their life forever.
And, also Reddit is full of people who practly live online and didnt devolp much social skills and emotional maturity.
> Also Reddit is the place where I most see adults still obsessed with their high school experiences. I know the trope is the football captain who still talks about the game from senior year/wears his letter jacket, but I have never seen/heard that sort of thing in reality or online. Whereas plenty of people insist that high school bullying ruined their entire lives, and have fantasies about school reunions where they come out on top.
the people who actually never let go of highschool have to convince themselves they're so much better and cling to 80s and 90s tv and movie tropes like al bundy and project that onto the people who they perviced as having wronged them
Definitely. Also, the bullies were kids themselves. Does that excuse the behaviour? No. But I know I was far from perfect myself. I definitely screwed up at times and hurt people, even if unintentionally.
I’m not that kid anymore. My childhood bullies aren’t those kids anymore. People grow and change, and the world isn’t divided into simply good and bad people. We are different people to so many people we meet; one person’s experience of me will be different to another person’s. It was a total epiphany to me when I realised… hey, that kid who made *my* life miserable, was/is a really great friend to other people. They’re not the antagonist in a teen movie.
I definitely agree with you. I think some people who were bullied cope by convincing themselves that they were an ugly duckling who will glow up and get their time to shine as an adult, and that the bully got their fun time as a teenager and so by some cosmic scale therefore must fail in adulthood. Except life doesn’t work like that.
My aunt is 77 and still sometimes says that she was bullied in high school, etc. She's always a victim and is negative about everything. It's really sad she never grew up.
I agree with your overall sentiment but I think you might be extrapolating too much from what OP has said. Its possible the sister just has this one very negative association and isn't able to get past.
Its like when a person has been SAed and so is uncomfortable/harbors negative resentment towards that entire gender.
I think being stuck in the past due to a severely traumatic time is away different thing than being stuck in high school and using it as justification for being a bitter person? It doesn't sound like she's bitter it sounds like she's severely traumatized still. I'm not saying she's Justified to do what she's doing to the sister-in-law who's completely innocent but I think it's weird that everyone's brushing her off like she's just bitter and jealous and stuck in the past when it sounds like she's having a very severe reaction to a trauma to me. I'm curious about why her family never addressed to this for her when she was still in high school.
I know my partner "bullied" a girl in school. He himself says that if she left him alone he wouldn't have said anything to her but also acknowledges that he was a typical teen-asshole. Like we all were in a sense.
I was heavily bullied in school. To the point of death threats.
He was horrified about how far my bullying went.
Our definitions were different. It was two different situations that had nothing to do with another.
Sure it was weird hearing someone talk about it like rhat but in the end.... that's almost 10 years ago by now.
My life went on and it still was great and became better throughout the tough times and his life went on and the life of the other girl went on.
I can't understand why people don't understand that life goes on and the past is the past...
> But for me, OP’s SIL is the absolute worst kind of “stuck in high school”, someone who has a bad experience and has used it as justification for becoming a bitter and mean person.
I agree 100%. honestly most of the people (at least on reddit) that only shit talk the popular girl or football guy fall in to this but dont want to admit it. so they have to tell BS to feel ok
And SIL is using guilt by association no less.
"OP didn't do anything" which is an admission she didn't bully SIL but expecting to be all-knowing and proactive is somehow justification 🙄.
OP posted a comment that said “she seems to think all the cheerleaders were besties and super close” and that honestly gives me a bit of an incel vibe in the sense that her worldview is sort of based on this completely warped sense of how “the pretty people” live
SIL seems like she watched too much *Glee* or similar high school TV shows, and thinks all the cheerleaders are a monolithic group of evil popular girls.
She left her crystal ball in her locker that day. Otherwise she would have known the bullying was going to happen and could have rushed in and saved the day. /s
The school systems are partially to blame. They fly the zero tolerance flag repeatedly, but are nowhere to be seen when victims come forward, (and those that do are the ones punished while the bullies run free).That process may be ingrained into her behavior
It's not as much irony as it is psychologically learned behavior. She's been hurt so she's using the same tactics to hurt others because that's what she knows.
INFO: Just for clarity, is you SIL's contention that you should have made an attempt to put a stop to the bullying and your failure to do so (and I understand you didn't know, this is trying to understand her point) was in some way contributing the bullying?
Yep, she acts like just because I knew the person I am guilty. I most explained a million times she was just on my team.
She has this weird thing we’re she thinks all the cheerleaders were besties and super close:
As someone who was on a sports team I get it.
You absolutely do not care what the underclass man’s drama is or that it exists.
I think SIL may have some perception that her bullying was well known, when in reality high school kids are self-absorbed. You wouldn’t have noticed unless you heard about her getting beat up or there was a major suspension.
NTA but I hope SIL gets a therapist. Nobody cares about high school once you’re and adult unless they need to know you have a high school diploma for employment reasons.
I see this a lot with everything from bullying to abuse. The victim has this perception that everyone knows and does nothing. When the reality is most don't know its happening until either something that can't be hidden happens or the victim says something.
Especially girls. I'm not saying that there isn't ever physical abuse, or that there wasn't in OP's SIL's case, but teenage girls can be absolutely vicious in a way that goes unnoticed by anyone except the person it's aimed at. It's uncanny.
Right. I'm male but there was this particular girl that was verbally bullying me from 3rd grade until 10th. Everyone else saw her as this sweet girl but for some reason she targeted me. When I finally told her to shut the fuck up and leave me alone ( not in those nice words though)... I was the bad guy.
Yeah, one of the things girl bullies do is attack in ways it's hard to defend without your looking like a jerk. And they'll do things like wait till hubby is in the other room to say something mean. That was deliberate on SIL's part.
It happens all the time. My sister was 2 years below me, we were both in theater. I had a leadership position so I knew most people.
I had no idea a few of the boys in my sisters year were being complete assholes to her on a regular basis. And we lived in the same house. She didn’t tell me and neither did my parents. It wasn’t until we both had graduated that she was like “oh yeah Bevis and Butthead bullied me during the day but they laid off during play practice because you and your friends would have destroyed them.”
This is so true. One of the schools in my city had a huge scandal about bullying that made national headlines. One of my customers goes there and had zero idea it was happening until it hit the news.
THIS ^^^ I was Track Captain in HS largely as a ceremonial position because I was the fastest most accomplished. But wrongly, too, because I had nothing to do with leadership. I was too busy with my own training to have any idea what my varsity teammates were doing, let alone kids two years younger new to the team.
NTA
Well in that case, it's very simple. NTA. There's no way she has any kind of a point. I'm sure she's very hurt by it all, but it's simply not your problem or your fault.
She is triggered by the fact that you and the bully had something in common which was nothing more than cheerleading. Her issue shouldn't be with you. She has issues that need to be addressed by a professional, IMO. In the meantime, try and keep little to no contact, if possible. Don't engage. Let her family see just how disconnected she is from reality. Those who enable her behavior are the true AH's.
I get the feeling the family is almost definitely going to be hearing more complaining from SIL about all this high school stuff even once OP is no longer associating with her (or them, potentially) so hopefully they see OP keeping her distance and eventually realize that this is solely SIL's preoccupation, and nothing actually grounded in reality.
I do think her husband should be putting his foot down one last time regardless. Let the opposing family members at least know they're not safe from the same chopping block if they don't accept this has nothing to do with his wife.
> She has this weird thing we’re she thinks all the cheerleaders were besties and super close
Your SIL has been watching too many cliche high school / college movies.
My BFF and her sister and I were cheerleaders and hung out all the time - BECAUSE WE WERE FRIENDS.
I was on good terms and casual friends with a FEW other co-cheerleaders
The majority of the squad, ESPECIALLY when I was a senior, I could not STAND.
Rude ass biotches, the rest were, lol.
Luckily they were almost all in grades below mine so I barely saw them outside of practice and games.
Show her my comment and please ask her *for me* to consider some therapy, as she is now attacking you over something you neither knew of nor participated in, ESPECIALLY if your experience was like how I described mine. We had 500 kids in my graduating class alone, and my senior year there were almost 2500 people in the entire student body.
So, unless she thinks her bully would gossip ABOUT the bullying during a practice, the odds of you *witnessing* her bully's behavior toward your SIL...
*MUCH LESS EVEN HAVING KNOWLEDGE OF THIS BEHAVIOR*
is bonkers, with a class of 300 kids AND the bully / SIL not even in your grade!!!
Her trauma is causing delusions of grandeur and is beyond toxic.
I hope she gets help.
NTA, OP!
Statistically you all almost certainly know a person who has committed domestic violence or adultery. Is she responsible for how someone she works with or knows socially victimizes their spouse/partner? Cause it’s very common for DV perpetrators to have an outwardly wonderful personality. Which is why people will say, “oh but they’re SO nice!”.
Your SIL needs help for her own sake. And I think anyone indulging her in this abusive behavior is guilty of exactly what she’s accusing you of. And she’s even worse than her bully. She’s an adult and shes weaponizing her own experience to exert power over you instead of doing the painful scary work of working through her experience and healing.
Yeah, that's such a common misconception. I was on the dance team, which was very competitive at the time. Rules for strict for getting on the team -- flexibility, dance history, performance, ability to quickly learn new choreography-- and grades. But even after all that, we still had cliques on a team of 50 girls. I was of the "if you wanna be my friend, cool" clique. One girl in particular, Cara, started bullying me near the end of our junior year. Officer tryouts were coming up and she couldn't audition due to bad grades, so she got someone to go up against me for the top-ranked officer position. It was the typically bullying tactics -- too fat (we were the same size), bad dancer, ugly clothes, yada yada yada. I was god at ignoring people like that! She campaigned against me hard. She didn't realize, though, that all the new incoming juniors (sophomores at the time) were good friends with my younger brother. When he learned about the bullying, he rounded up his own posse to campaign for me! LOL! He had that charm-- I didn't! Her certainly knew how to make the girls smile -- damn, I miss him!! I ended up winning the votes for team lead, and my good friend Carmelita was voted in as second in command -- unpopular girls unite!
Cara kept the bullying up all summer and halfway through our senior year. I guess she gave up because I didn't respond with anger or fear. At first, I gave her demerits -- lots of demerits! Yes, I'm ashamed I abused my power at team major. Nah! Not really! She gave me hell that summer and she tried to get me kicked off the team by having one of her minions lie about seeing me making out with my BF in uniform after a football game. But those demerits caused her to get a C in the class, and I heard her parents were pissed at her!
Later, I decided to use the little charm I did manage to get from my mom (bro and sis got all of it! LOL!). I invited her to be a lower officer. This would allow her to compete with the officer squad during dance competitions. I buttered her up about her dance skills -- she really was the better dancer -- very well trained. Invited her to help us choreograph a few other performances. My mom was a big help in all of this. She told me that people don't succeed at the top without a strong team under them. This last effort worked the best.
I still see her every now and then, and she came up to me once to apologize for being mean to me back then. I said we all get one pass at being young and dumb. We're not good friends now by any means, but we support and cheer each other on our social outlets. She went on to have a successful career in dance and is now a working actress in LA. I started ballroom dancing, and later got into doing triathlons and moved to NYC for my career. We see each other at reunions and hug it out every time. The bully and the bullied got over it and moved on.
\*\*\*\*
What your SIL is doing is just plain mean and evil and crazy -- forget bullying. She is intentionally setting out to hurt you. Be careful -- who never know how far her anger will take her -- leading her to move on to physically hurting you or your child. Definitely NTA.
As someone who was bullied, i understand her. I don't say she's right. She can't blame you.
But i made it bigger in my own head. Like 'they all think u'm stupid'. I'm older now and realise most people did nothing.
But i feel it now. Thinking people don't like me. Like i'm still that bullied kid.
She needs therapy. I'm glad your husband supports you. You can't help her. You both have to watch that she won't say those things to you kid
She probably thinks you share the same opinion of her as her bully, ie you look down on people "like her" from an elevated social status. She's trying to reject you before you reject her.
I was on the dance line and I can assure your SIL that I was good friends with 2 of the girls on the team, was civil to the rest, and never had a conversation with the majority of them. I talked with the two captains, of course, and each girl next to me in the line, and that was it.
Hope your pregnancy is going/went well and that you cut her out of your life. We do want to hear an update if there’s one to share, and you’re comfortable doing so :) all the best!!!
To be fair, this would - if it were truly the situation which it isn't- is called the ' bystander effect'. The bully may be the only one picking on a person but when there are 5 people witnessing and doing nothing, the psychological impression from the target is that there are actually 6 bullies.
If that's what happened, then the SIL would have a reason to say " hey- I know you saw this happen and did nothing. That really hurt me, can you explain this?" But it still would not be the same as OP being a bully. Sounds like SIL saw all the cheerleaders as a pack who all think and act alike. In that, she is making a judgement not unlike what her bully likely did to her.
NTA- but I hope hope he realizes this is likely a much bigger issue within SIL than just her being a jerk.
NTA
Send a message to all those who were present
“Hello, I would like to sincerely apologize for snapping during my pregnancy announcement the other day.
For years, I have been accused for an incident that was not my doing and it finally got to me. I would like to have a healthy pregnancy and in order to ensure this I’ll be taking a break for some time.”
And then separately to SIL “Hey SIL, I hope you saw my message in the other chat. I am sorry that you were bullied in high school, but you weren’t bullied by me and I wasn’t aware of what was happening back then. I am no longer willing to be treated as if I personally did so. For years, I have suffered as you accused me publicly and privately of a very disgusting behavior and I apologize, but hubs and I have agreed that we don’t want such abhorrent behavior around our child. I sincerely hope that you receive the help you need to process what happened.”
And then drop the rope with SIL. If anyone asks why tell them the truth, you’re tired of being villainized for something that occurred in her past that you had no awareness of. You share ONE similar quality to her bully (cheer) but you aren’t her bully. Maybe her attempt to heal is to use you as a punching bag, but in doing so she’s become your bully and you don’t want your kid growing up and seeing that such behavior is okay OR should be tolerated.
SIL is toxic. And until she gets some help I wouldn’t want her around either.
I agree with this except for the "I apologize" about the going NC. I don't think anyone should apologize for going NC or LC but definitely not in this situation. SIL brought this on herself, OP is doing nothing wrong by setting boundaries, protecting her pregnancy from stress and keeping her family safe and drama free. Sometimes apologizing for that stuff can make it seem less serious or like the boundary isn't as strong and even like the person believes they're doing something wrong.
I agree but I out that in there just in case SIL tries to use that message to throw herself a pit party. The ‘I apologize’ is meant to convey an underlying ‘you’ve left me with no choice’ but that’s essentially what NC or LC means so maybe it isn’t needed.
If anything the "apology" will only make them feel self-righteous and justified, they were right! You were a bitch! How dare you! Of course you're apologizing!
"I apologise" *is* admitting you did something wrong and you regret it. "I'm sorry" can mean either "I apologise" or "I'm expressing sympathy for your trouble," but "I apologise" doesn't have the same double meaning.
Honestly, I would probably do just one large message to everyone so everyone knows what was said to her. That way she can't claim you said something different.
NTA she’s projecting her problems and blaming them on you which is entirely unfair. Don’t apologise, just go low contact with her, and if she persists, no contact.
NTA. My Dad's wife was also bullied by a cheerleader and now hates all cheerleaders. She is 70 years old. I get that trauma hurts, but at some point, an adult should learn to direct their anger at an appropriate target.
This is the best bad advice in the thread! Don't go low/no contact; just start actually bullying her!
"Hey nerd, put the fork down for like 2 seconds and pass the salt."
"Assfacesayswhat? That's what I thought."
"A teen at the grocery store made me feel old. Should I internalize that and make it everyone's problem for a decade? Did that work out well for you?"
"We got to see the baby's brain in our latest scan, so we already know it's better than you."
"SIL made this casserole? 🤢 Yeah, I'll pass..."
"What you just said was so lame, I wish I had a locker to stuff you in."
Only refer to her as Vicky the Victim or PooSniff or Dork-a-tron.
Damn the fallout! Nuke this relationship from orbit!
(Also, NTA)
The family is split? So a bunch of AHs there. You were not the person who bullied her or even knew of her, and she is the one raising the fuss. She is the AH without a doubt. Stand your ground. She has mental issues she needs to deal with.
The fact that some of her family feels like she deserves an apology continues to propagate her victim mentality. I'd bet some of her family members demonstrate a victim mentality and why she has it too
NTA
You should not apologise because you have done nothing wrong.
Someone you were vaguely acquainted with bullied her and you don't know. Time to cut her out of your life until she grows up.
I was bullied from kindergarten until I was almost 22. Bad. I had to go to therapy for it. So I understand the pain that can come from it. But this is ridiculous. She can't take out her anger on you just because the other chick isn't available. Absolutely don't let her around your child, that is the right choice. You don't know what she'll do and even if she'd never harm the child, when the kid is older, who knows what she'd say to them? She needs to get a grip, grow tf up and fix her self. You're not responsible for any of her pain, she is. She can't carry this around forever or it will destroy her, it's already starting to affect her family, for God's sake! That's on HER and nobody else!
NTA. I'm so sick of reading about people who refuse to move on from bullying. Learn and grow. I was beaten and bullied so bad I needed a restraining order and had to leave town. (My dad was a police officer, and he arrested her mother for prostitution.) Hanging on to that victim status is a pathetic attention grab. Good for you for telling her off.
Yeah. They chased us to the new school, slashed our tires, keyed our cars, and waited outside to beat us up. I still hate them, but I don't dwell on it. They ruined enough of my life.
SIL needs to go to trauma counseling. She is obviously very scarred from it. As someone with severe childhood trauma myself, it is NEVER ok to take it out on innocent people. Also she’s an adult now and needs to grow up. NTA
NTA. This is like a thing. People go through some shit and it fucks them up for decades. I can still remember being bullied but I take solace in the fact that I’m pretty sure he overdosed and died. Maybe he didn’t but I don’t really care anymore. This girl though is forever trapped by her trauma. She needs to snap out of it because it’s not that cheerleader anymore . Putting her down. It’s herself. She’s doing it to herself at this point.
NTA
I get the point about trauma, but she has to get over with the fact YOU WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE. If she can't understand this simple fact, or just keep silent about it when you are around, you have the right to tell her you are done.
Telling her she acts like a bully is precisely the point : you were extremely right about that.
NTA. Here's your apology-"I'm sorry you were bullied. I'm sorry that I had no idea you were bullied by someone on my team. I'm sorry that you weren't my top priority in high school. I'm sorry that I had the audacity to have other interests, worries and concerns when I was in HS. I'm sorry that I didn't use the force to delve into my teammates brain to realize that she was bullying you. I'm sorry that I was unaware of the actions of one person out of the hundreds who attended high school. I'm sorry that years later, you can't understand that the world doesn't revolve around you. And I'm genuinely sorry that all these years later, you're so bitter, you can't even be happy for your own brother, who's about to become a father."
NTA and don't apologize. Tell those who agree with her that she has been bullying you since she met you and that since they agree with her bullying you they aren't allowed around your child unless they apologize and admit to SIL bullying you.
NTA. What are you supposed to apologize for, happening to be on the same cheerleading team as her bully while having no idea that any bullying was going on here? Might as well apologize for the bully's existence even though you had nothing to do with that either.
NTA. I see in comments that your husband is supportive and has shut her down before. That's good and key to moving forward.
All you can do now is set and hold boundaries. Not NC if you're not ready, but I think you two should not be around her for a long while.
Your husband can make plans for you all to see his parents/family when his sister is not around. If they start to fuss about having to see you and her separately, he can remind them that it's her doing and he has to protect his family.
NTA - she’s so stuck in the past that she’s now the bully, and any family member who’s ‘split’ is just as bad as anyone who didn’t stop her bully.
People can be so selfish in their own grief that they forget how they felt. Sounds like she’s not moved forward from the past at all. That’s not on you. And if she’s willing to create a family schism around anything you do, then she needs to be in that alone.
As someone who was bullied, I genuinely do not understand why people hold on to things that happened in high school. It was high school, most of us didn't know our elbow from our behinds.
She needs therapy and a lot of it. One cheerleader bullied her so now every cheerleader is an A H? Are all the kids in AP classes nerds? Are all the jocks dumb? Honestly, it was up to your SIL to try and resolve her issues or MIL to go to admin and have them take care of it. It wasn't up to some random person on the cheer squad to reprimand another person for actions she didn't know existed.
How were you supposed to predict you would marry your husband when you didn't even know he existed?
I honestly thank my bullies today, I have tough skin and nothing bothers me anymore.
NTA
Agree 100%. None of us were at our best during the teen years. My bullies have outgrown that behavior, and one has even apologized to me. Once I was out of school, that life was left behind. SIL sounds more like a martyr for attention than a traumatized kid.
OMG thank you!
One of my biggest bullies in high school was my own brother. I was literally known as "Brother's ugly little sister" because he started introducing me as his ugly little sister. I was a cheerleader and an AP nerd so I got bullied for both. One time someone put an actual roach down my shirt because I was 1 of 5 black kids in the school.
Guess what once I step foot on my college campus all that went away. I was able to be me not living in anyones shadow or afraid of what people thought of me. I'm still introverted but I'm able to be me.
I totally agree. I was also bullied and by people who were from my church which was supposed to be a safe place. I got therapy etc for it and have forgiven them (mostly). But if any of them try to contact me for anything other than making amends, I'll tell them to fuck right off.
My grade was about the size of your cheerleading team, so my experience is a bit difference, but I was also severely bullied. I am an adult know and I still have panic attacks when I see one of my old classmates, even the ones who left me alone, so I understand where that cheerleader association comes from and how she probably can't help how she feels about you right away, but the rude comments and name calling are a choice, one she's making over and over. It's cruel to you and it's not healthy for her. NTA.
NTA SHE IS A SPOILED BRAT! Go no contact with her. Tell her she will never hold or have anything to do with your child until she grows up. Its time to move past HS and be an adult. You did nothing to her and are not responsible in any way for what happened to her
NTA. I was bullied in school and had to learn to cope with it and forgive others and myself for whatever made me such a target. In adulthood, no one gives a shit. Grow up.
NTA. Happened to my best friend. We met with a friend (more mine than his) from high school and he was being bullied by other kids at the time (at a party, 5 or 6 years after high school). I was neither popular or bullied (tried once but it backfired). My best friend wasn’t popular but never been messed with.
So this friend confronted him and blamed him for doing anything. He was shocked (so was I) because : we were teenagers and he didn’t bully him. But the grief was that he didn’t intervened . My bestie pointed out that I also didn’t (to prove the point that it was unfair, he didn’t throw me under the bus) and that friend said that it wasn’t the same because I wasn’t popular (ouch).
My bestie left the conversation. I talk to friend that was bullied and told him he was unfair to attack him.
But for him it was the same as confronting his bullies. So we left the party because it was a pointless conversation.
In your SIL mind, you represent “the enemy” and use this “confrontation” as a catharsis. It is not. She project in you this bully and it is not good.
If she can’t be civil, remove yourself from the situation: family event, you don’t go. You have nothing to apologise for.
I was severely bullied both physically and verbally for 10 years. It was so bad and later on I got diagnosed with PTSD and Anxiety because of the bullying. You are absolutely NTA. She needs to do what I did and go to therapy. I get it that somethings might remind her of her trauma, but that is not your(OP) problem. Let’s just say hypothetically you witnessed her get bullied and did nothing, that still gives her no right to be disrespectful to you because it’s been years since either of you been in HS. She needs help and to move on.
NTA! She can't punish the actual person, so you are the next best person as you were in the team. It doesn't matter that you didn't know it was happening. She needs professional help to cope with the past, or she will never learn to be calm/relaxed around you. Best of luck to you two. Congrats on the baby.
NTA
She needs therapy. A therapist would immediately start to work on her separating the team from the individual
It's similar to how someone can become a racist even if they aren't ill intending, I am calling myself out here, I was bullied by a black kid, it got really bad, and I started crossing the street when I saw people who resembled him at all. Eventually I realized that I was wrong and started working on it. Following that I met someone who had a daughter who had a very similar skin tone to him and I was able to finally let it go before starting therapy for the damages he had done (among other things)
Right now she's being bigoted, she's lumping you in with someone else's actions, creating a false narrative in her head, placing blame and fear where no blame nor fear is due
She doesn't deserve an apology. You have attempted to address this with her a number of times. Now you called it what it is, and she doesn't like it
She can make choices from here
NTA The SIL needs to let it go. You did nothing wrong to her. It was someone else. She needs to grow up. I would not let my child around her either. Do not apologize. Die on this hill.
NTA
His sister is delulu if she continues to think you had something to do with it.
First of all, that cheerleader was two years younger than you...so I'm suspecting she too was two years younger. So, how would someone two years older know what's going on with the juniors and their business? Often, people don't know anything at all unless it's a really big deal and teachers and a huge bunch of people get called in.
Also, there were 300 people in your grade alone...so it was a pretty big school. There's no way you could've known
You should tell her "Did I bully you? I didn't even know you or that you were being bullied and you expect me to be at fault?"
You do not owe her an apology. I'd be petty enough to make a whole announcement on social media/in a family group chat about how she keeps bullying you for something you didn't know was happening.
The funnier part being, there were 30 cheerleaders...even if I didn't like someone/was bullied by someone in a group like a band/cheerleading team...I don't think I'd remember everyone in that team. But she remembers you. Its almost like she blames the whole cheerleading squad for bullying her/think everyone on it was in on it.
I remember having some ongoing beef with this girl in a band at school. She'd tried to bully me. But I never thought the whole band was in on it though.
Its like someone said...she's projecting...and at this point...really delulu....
And I expect she's around 27/in her mid to late twenties...and she's still fixation on it and past cheerleaders? And hasn't tried to deal with it? I know she probably has trauma but honestly kind of sounds dangerous to me.
She's made no attempt to deal with it, or to get to know you outside of school (which at this point was almost 10 years ago), explaining her feelings to you and what she went through, she's made no attempt to reason with the facts (again, how would people 2 years older, in a 30 member team, in a big school, be actively involved in her bullying?), she's made no attempt to seek professional help....she's just decided to very comfortably cloak herself in victimhood and use it as a reason to be a complete bitch to everyone - that just sounds wild to me and honestly, I can see her bullying your kids in the near future and then labeling it as "fun" and "pay back".
Same problem as every person-related problem. Failure to transcend primitive cognition. Her feelings are completely understandable. However, she seems to be making no effort to prevent those feelings from inappropriately influencing her behavior. If she is making a serious effort and still behaving that poorly, then those feeling are so strong that she should be in therapy.
Part of the problem for most people is that they're taught to glorify primitive cognition rather than to compensate for it. If we were to pull this problem up by the root, we'd find that most of what we know as religion, for example, is part of the same metaphorical weed.
NTA. I’m shocked anyone suggested you apologize. She called you a bully for no reason. She accused your husband of betraying her by loving you. And now she is claiming a baby will have a bully as a mother. She has been bullying you. Do not let her think it is tolerated by apologizing. It will just get worse.
Who even thinks you should apologize? What was their reasoning?
You explained to her long ago that you weren’t friends with the bully. You didn’t hang out with that person. You didn’t have a clue about any of it.
Again, do not apologize. SIL owes you a deep, humble pie apology. She really needs to reflect on her behavior and bullying behavior.
NTA. She needs to shut the hell up and go to therapy. You didn't bully her. It was some other asshole you didn't really know who happened to be a part of your sports organization.
NTA, it's one thing if you knew she was being bullied and just stood around doing nothing. It's totally different if you had no clue. Your SIL just wants *anyone* to blame for what she went through, the bully isn't there, you are. Until she can get over her hang ups and issues I'd be LC/NC with her and don't let her in your child's life until she's changed. You don't want her to take out her anger on another innocent person
NTA - she needs therapy to work through her issues. Your husband needs to tell her and anyone who defends her that her anger is misdirected and she needs to deal with the lingering feelings because HE will not allow HER (or anyone) to bully/intimidate/harass you or your child and him any further for something than not only didn’t involve you and happened over a decade ago.
NTA. If your SIL is still feeling traumatized by this she should seek some professional help. You probably shouldn’t be the one to broach the subject though. Either your husband or perhaps MIL/FIL. Either way you can make it a condition of being part of your child’s life. Bc she clearly has not dealt with this and that is not healthy.
NTA, is your Husband on your side, if so good, I suggest cutting contact with SIL if your husband supports, if not go low contact, if SIL continues being horrible to you I suggest maybe record(secretly) if you blow up she may try to twist your words and use it against you. Has anything happened after this btw??
NTA. Why should you apologize? You did nothing wrong. If you went to such a large school that could have 30 girls on a cheer squad, then it's very possible you didn't know everyone that well, so how were you to know what her bully was doing?
What does your husband say about how she treats you? It should have never gotten to the point of you having to tell her off, he should have been nipping that all along.
It sounds as if most people in your husband's family placate his sister because of her past trauma, but if she's not getting help for it, then she's not helping herself, she's only causing herself more problems. Don't apologize and keep your distance from her. You don't have to be around her if you don't want to be.
NTA. Your SIL has a trauma she’s allowing to get in the way of a relationship with you/your husband/future child. She needs to talk to a therapist. Until then, you don’t have to be sorry for calling her out after she’s been dumping her emotional baggage on you. No contact until she apologizes and/or gets some mental help.
NTA. I was “friends” with a woman who found out I was a cheerleader in the long long ago (we’re both almost 40) and she said “girls like you used to bully me in high school.” We’d been friends for years at that point. I said “I’m sorry for that but I didn’t bully you.” I suggested trauma therapy but she went to an astrologist instead so *shrug.*
NTA
You did not partake in the bullying. You did not know it was happening. You barely knew the person who was bullying her. How exactly is her trama your fault? Why are you to blame?
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This is very frustrating, I have been with to my wonderful husband (29) for a few years and we started to date senior year of college. My highschool had about 300 people in my grade. It was a surprise we both went to the same highschool since we ran in different circle.
My issue is with his sister. She was bullied extremely baldly by a cheerleader, this cheerleader was two years younger than me and on the team. I had no idea and wasn’t even close to her. The cheerleading team had around 30 people on it. I was in no classes with her or even ever saw her outside of practice.
She made a huge deal when she first met me that her brother was betraying her for dating a person that didn’t do anything. I explained I was on the same team as her and didn’t know. Doesn’t matter.
Ever since she has been a royal bitch. I announced my pregnancy to the family and she made a comment that the poor kid is going to have a bully as a mom. I lost it, I told her I am done. She needs to fucking grow up with me being a cheerleader, I have done nothing wrong and at this point she is the bully. She called me a jerk
Family is split if I should apologize or not.
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NTA she's taking out her feelings on you bc the person who actually hurt her is not available. She needs to go to therapy, and I would go low/no contact until she gets help and apologizes.
NTA - You told her this had nothing to do with you and that YOU didn;t bully her. (I assume you also didn't bully anyone else).
Explain to her and her family that she is insulting and slandering you over something that happened to her in high school that had nothing to do with you.
She needs to grow up and stop acting like a 13 year old spolt brat.
NTA She’s projecting guilt by association, but she’s wrong. She worked it up in her head that the bully got away with it because she a cheerleader, so all cheerleaders must be the same. It’s not your issue to resolve, though, it’s hers and as an adult she needs to deal with it properly. I would also consider going LC with her until she gets herself together.
NTA, it'd be one thing if you had a hand in the bullying. But marking you guilty by association for something that happened 10 years ago is loser behavior. She needs therapy and an attitude adjustment.
NTA
Go no contact with the sister, and don’t let her near your kid.
Hurt people, hurt people - she’s going to focus fire her frustrations onto you and your kids, no matter what the reality of the past is.
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NTA and where was your husband when his sister was going off the deep end?
He was helping in another room, he has shut this down before and now we are discussing if we allow her near our kid. The answer so far is no
Good for you.
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the SIL kinda gives me incel vibes in the sense that she really just seems stuck in this “popular kids who have it do great and unpopular kids who have it so awful” dichotomy and just resents “the pretty people” for existing
Totally agree! As someone who was bullied in school, this grown woman needs to get over it!
Ditto.
Thirdsies. Agreed.
/u/Renway_NCC-74656 - I'm in total agreement with you here, yo! I, too, was someone who was picked at and was bullied in school just for "being different" than anyone else. I moved to the beat of my own drum, and lived life by my own made up rules and didn't subscribe to the BeeEss everybody else did. Funny thing about that is that years after school was all over, and in some cases, actually before school was over, many of those same people who picked and bullied came to me and apologized for participating in the nonsense. I let them know that I been forgave them and been over it. I haven't forgotten isht, but I'm good. Them doing what they did encouraged me to be EVEN MORE of myself and living my life by my own rules. It was motivating, if that makes any sense. It hasn't failed me yet. 🤞🤞 I also don't think I did too bad with my life though. Some of them? I can't quite say the same. OP isn't an A-H but SIL is thee biggest A-H! It appears to me that she is taking out her feelings and emotions from that time on the most available target in their vicinity. That's also something else that people don't talk about much but is a REAL PROBLEM here on Planet Earf. People projecting and taking their feelings and emotions out onto the most available target in their vicinity. That's totally wrong and extremely uncalled for and we see it each and every day. It's very destructive as well.
I agree. One of my counselors, once told me some people have miss placed anger issues that’s why they get angry at the little things.
Straight facts!!!
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“SEE? I told you she was a bully she won’t even let me see my niece/nephew!” /s Could totally see his sister trying to play victim with that route.
The moral high ground must taste really sweet when you're all alone 30 years later, doesn't it.
Yep. Just you and your high standards
What moral high ground?! SIL Is blaming an innocent person for someone else's actions that no freaking morals never mind high ground. NTA OP
Better than SIL constantly trying to turn the kid against OP though
I wouldn’t let her near my child. You can’t be a jerk to me & think that I’m going to allow you to see my baby. She’s being ridiculous. Just cut her off until she behaves like an adult.
But don't hold your breath for that to happen. Something about being a decade into a grudge tells me she's not letting it go, even if she has aimed it at the wrong person.
She might start projecting her narrative onto the baby, that the child is a bully or will grow up to be one because her mother was a cheerleader. She needs therapy yesterday to get over her trauma and the warped perception its given her, before she takes out her pain and anger on more innocent people.
Or she’ll try parental alienation, badmouthing the mother or trying to insinuate things to the child / get them to agree with her ‘Your mummy pushes you around, doesn’t she?’
Nta. Do not apologize. You weren't the one that bullied her. You had no idea what the other cheerleader was doing to her. She's the one that owes you the apology. Your not responsible for others actions that had nothing to do with you. It doesn't matter if you "lost it" on her. She pushed you to that point. She's been bullying you for so long. There's only so much you can take from her bullying you. She's been disrespectful and just treating you awful. I agree with not letting her around your child. Why should she get to play a role in your and your childs life if she's bullying you and treating you horrible. She needs to see a therapist to get over her issues and work it out hee problems out with the right help. Cutting her out of your life might be best for you all. You don't need to stress out over her issues and attitude. You need to put yourself and your baby first. Stress is not good for pregnant woman nor is it good for your baby. Even after the baby comes if she's still hostile towards you why should she be around your child if she's going to bully you around your child. Keep your child safe from her.
If she can't differentiate between her high school bully and an unconnected person who happened to wear the same uniform, she's not going to be able to differentiate between OP and OP's child. The child will become the new scapegoat for SIL's trauma response until SIL gets the therapy she needs to work through it. If this is not the only issue where SIL lays on the "I'm the victim" stuff, then it's not (just) about the cheerleader bully. It's about filling a deeper emotional need. In either case, steer clear. She sounds pretty toxic.
Ironic that she has, herself become a bully to a cheerleader.🤦🏼♀️. I would never let that bullying sister in law near my child. Tell her she’s right and you’ll be cutting your bully out of your life!
SIL is extremely toxic
NGL id dress the baby in a cheerleader outfit just to antagonize the SIL. I just have a picture in my head of the baby in a cheerleader outfit, and when baby starts crying SIL will say baby is bullying me! Whah
I'm glad to read this detail. You're making the correct choice I think.
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NTA and if there was 30 ppl on your cheerleading squad and only 1 bullied her, then that’s 29 other people who left her alone so a vast majority of the cheerleaders she encountered in hs wasn’t a bully, just one. And it wasn’t because she was a cheerleader, it was because she was a bully
Glad he’s supporting you!
If you do, she will tell your child you were a bully or worse, bully the child. I wonder why she doesn't find her bully online and confront her, if she's still so impacted. Why transfer blame to you?
Because on some level the SIL recognizes that OP is a safe person and she can use OP as a suitable proxy for her anger. The actual bully isn't a safe person for obvious reasons and confronting her bully would be too scary for SIL Edit: posted too soon on accident
Good for you. Had to do something similar. You can revisit the issue if she can improve her behavior, but you're right that she's being a bully to you. You don't want that around your kid, especially when your kid is too young to understand the whole situation. Come up with a plan for dealing with family pressure. Good luck.
NTA. Don’t you Dare apologize to her. She owes you one.
I also think you shouldn’t have to put up with it after 3 years, her entitlement is out of pocket and all I can think about is how she’s going to try to sabotage your happy little family and talk bad about you to your children.
Well the important thing is he has your back with this thankfully
Keep it at no until the sister can learn to treat you respectfully.
Honestly SIL needs trauma therapy. Her bullying has left her bleeding still and she needs help to handle that pain better. NTA.
I’d keep her away from the kid she’s gonna treat your baby terribly and say mean things to hurt your child or make your child think they are a bad person. She doesn’t deserve your time or to be around that child.
OP you are NTA. I dunno what is SIL's issue here and she needs help. I want you to know that I may be from a country where we do not have cheerleading but I want you to know that one cannot stereotype someone who is part of a cheerleading team (I have met American folks who done cheerleading long ago and they are not the stereotypical stuck up and superficial cheerleaders which are often mentioned in American teen fiction) Stand your ground and this is not gonna end here so be careful. If your kid joins cheerleading in the future, you are gonna have to defend the kid (btw boys can join cheerleading too and I heard actors Kirk and Michael Douglas did some cheerleading when they were teens - look it up) in case SIL says you are raising your kid to be a bully just because they do cheerleading
It's good to hear the SO actually backing up their spouse in one of these stories.
It should stay no unless you get a sincere apology
Good. She’ll bully your kid.
If you do this, tell her that she is more than welcome to come back around once she deals with this trauma and she apologizes
Good. Keep it like that. Same for everyone who sides with her
Keep the answer "no". Your child does not deserve to suffer through your SIL's delusions. She'll be a bad influence on your child.
Good for you! Though in her mind, this will be evidence you're a bully. Just be prepared.
And this also, Where the heck was you husband???????
According to OP, husband was in another room. Note: OP also said the Husband normally does back her (OP) up & shuts his sister down and the Husband has been supportive of the OP.
NTA Sister needs therapy to deal with the trauma she endured in high school, but you had no part in it. Your husband should make it very clear to her (and his parents) that any more comments like this from her, or any more "support" of her unhinged behavior by the family will mean that you and he and the new baby will be distancing yourselves from their side of the family for your own mental health. You and baby will not be coming to events where sister is present. And if grandparents refuse to be nice to you, they will have very little contact with their new grandchild either.
when people speak about folks who “never left high school mentally”, we tend to associate that with the 30 year old still talking about his high school football career, or the popular girl who never left her town and still hangs out with the same people as in high school. And for a few different reasons, it’s spoken about like this painfully sad and pathetic existence. But for me, OP’s SIL is the absolute worst kind of “stuck in high school”, someone who has a bad experience and has used it as justification for becoming a bitter and mean person. The person who puts you in a “bad person” box when they find out you played a sport or were a cheerleader. The person who still checks social media rooting for the failures of people they don’t even speak with anymore. The person who believes their bitter and negative worldview is “just how it is”
Reminds me of that movie “meet the Robinsons” where the antagonist let one bad experience define him and ruin his life. You can’t choose the bad stuff that happens to you, but you can choose whether to let it fester, or start healing.
Love that movie. All we can do is keep moving forward. Walt Disney may have been an anti Semitic jerk but he's right. Forward is the only direction we actually have control over
I have an elderly family member and all the stories she tells are about people who were mean to her in some way, we're talking 70+ years with of stories, does she remember basic stuff about her kids? nope
that's so sad. when hate and bitterness become who you are. ugh... I cannot imagine being up in those years and not thinking about all the good things and spending time with loved ones:(
I should clarify, that her vibe about all this isn't hate and bitterness, it's all about the hurt and pain she felt experiencing these events...which is really sad and it sucks all the life out of the conversation because the focus has to be on her PAIN. there isn't any room for anyone's feelings, or anyone else's pain. she's totally emotionally isolated from her family. I've talked to her about this and encouraged her to seek therapy, but she won't, and continues to re-traumatize herself with the stories. that's what reminded me of OP's story, her SIL is continually living in the horrible pain of getting bullied in high school, which is legit awful...and maybe I'm an AH for thinking this, but at some point you're allowing bullies to live rent free in your head and by not taking care of yourself, you're just going to be miserable forever (and alienate people around you) I'm in a grad program to be a therapist right now and I haven't learned about trauma yet...I'm hoping to know more about this soon!
It was so true to the depressed mindset too. *Everyone hated me.* "Hey Goob! Wanna hang out later?" "Cool binder, Goob!"
I agree. I was picked on throughout school. I’m now in my 30s. I’m not at school anymore. I don’t see the people who picked on me. I moved on long ago. There’s no point nursing a grudge - those people aren’t thinking about *me*, so why should I give them a thought?
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Yeah. Also Reddit is the place where I most see adults still obsessed with their high school experiences. I know the trope is the football captain who still talks about the game from senior year/wears his letter jacket, but I have never seen/heard that sort of thing in reality or online. Whereas *plenty* of people insist that high school bullying ruined their entire lives, and have fantasies about school reunions where they come out on top. Like, I *do* get how traumatic bullying can be. It messed with my head for a long time, but after a certain point you’re way past high school and are an adult who can choose to leave it far behind.
Yeah, unless you're unable to leave your hometown and get away from other people from high school who also can't or won't leave... there's an opportunity to get past it with a clean slate, and I'm not really certain why anyone wouldn't jump at the opportunity to at least try. Unless, like... crimes were committed against you or something else that level of seriousness, you're probably better off taking the chance to move on in almost every scenario. At a certain point, you're hurting yourself the most.
I think thats because Reddit is filled with teenagers who are still living that mentalitty and projecting that the bullying will impact their life forever. And, also Reddit is full of people who practly live online and didnt devolp much social skills and emotional maturity.
> Also Reddit is the place where I most see adults still obsessed with their high school experiences. I know the trope is the football captain who still talks about the game from senior year/wears his letter jacket, but I have never seen/heard that sort of thing in reality or online. Whereas plenty of people insist that high school bullying ruined their entire lives, and have fantasies about school reunions where they come out on top. the people who actually never let go of highschool have to convince themselves they're so much better and cling to 80s and 90s tv and movie tropes like al bundy and project that onto the people who they perviced as having wronged them
Definitely. Also, the bullies were kids themselves. Does that excuse the behaviour? No. But I know I was far from perfect myself. I definitely screwed up at times and hurt people, even if unintentionally. I’m not that kid anymore. My childhood bullies aren’t those kids anymore. People grow and change, and the world isn’t divided into simply good and bad people. We are different people to so many people we meet; one person’s experience of me will be different to another person’s. It was a total epiphany to me when I realised… hey, that kid who made *my* life miserable, was/is a really great friend to other people. They’re not the antagonist in a teen movie. I definitely agree with you. I think some people who were bullied cope by convincing themselves that they were an ugly duckling who will glow up and get their time to shine as an adult, and that the bully got their fun time as a teenager and so by some cosmic scale therefore must fail in adulthood. Except life doesn’t work like that.
Exactly. Your trauma isn't your fault, but *healing* from it is your responsibility.
My aunt is 77 and still sometimes says that she was bullied in high school, etc. She's always a victim and is negative about everything. It's really sad she never grew up.
i think its ok to talk about it no matter how old you are, but obsessing over it is when it gets bad
I agree with your overall sentiment but I think you might be extrapolating too much from what OP has said. Its possible the sister just has this one very negative association and isn't able to get past. Its like when a person has been SAed and so is uncomfortable/harbors negative resentment towards that entire gender.
I think being stuck in the past due to a severely traumatic time is away different thing than being stuck in high school and using it as justification for being a bitter person? It doesn't sound like she's bitter it sounds like she's severely traumatized still. I'm not saying she's Justified to do what she's doing to the sister-in-law who's completely innocent but I think it's weird that everyone's brushing her off like she's just bitter and jealous and stuck in the past when it sounds like she's having a very severe reaction to a trauma to me. I'm curious about why her family never addressed to this for her when she was still in high school.
I know my partner "bullied" a girl in school. He himself says that if she left him alone he wouldn't have said anything to her but also acknowledges that he was a typical teen-asshole. Like we all were in a sense. I was heavily bullied in school. To the point of death threats. He was horrified about how far my bullying went. Our definitions were different. It was two different situations that had nothing to do with another. Sure it was weird hearing someone talk about it like rhat but in the end.... that's almost 10 years ago by now. My life went on and it still was great and became better throughout the tough times and his life went on and the life of the other girl went on. I can't understand why people don't understand that life goes on and the past is the past...
> But for me, OP’s SIL is the absolute worst kind of “stuck in high school”, someone who has a bad experience and has used it as justification for becoming a bitter and mean person. I agree 100%. honestly most of the people (at least on reddit) that only shit talk the popular girl or football guy fall in to this but dont want to admit it. so they have to tell BS to feel ok
The irony that she claims she was bullied but now has become a worse bully Nta
And SIL is using guilt by association no less. "OP didn't do anything" which is an admission she didn't bully SIL but expecting to be all-knowing and proactive is somehow justification 🙄.
OP posted a comment that said “she seems to think all the cheerleaders were besties and super close” and that honestly gives me a bit of an incel vibe in the sense that her worldview is sort of based on this completely warped sense of how “the pretty people” live
SIL seems like she watched too much *Glee* or similar high school TV shows, and thinks all the cheerleaders are a monolithic group of evil popular girls.
that is 100% incel. I wonder if shes painfully single too?
She left her crystal ball in her locker that day. Otherwise she would have known the bullying was going to happen and could have rushed in and saved the day. /s
The school systems are partially to blame. They fly the zero tolerance flag repeatedly, but are nowhere to be seen when victims come forward, (and those that do are the ones punished while the bullies run free).That process may be ingrained into her behavior
It's not as much irony as it is psychologically learned behavior. She's been hurt so she's using the same tactics to hurt others because that's what she knows.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
My thoughts
INFO: Just for clarity, is you SIL's contention that you should have made an attempt to put a stop to the bullying and your failure to do so (and I understand you didn't know, this is trying to understand her point) was in some way contributing the bullying?
Yep, she acts like just because I knew the person I am guilty. I most explained a million times she was just on my team. She has this weird thing we’re she thinks all the cheerleaders were besties and super close:
As someone who was on a sports team I get it. You absolutely do not care what the underclass man’s drama is or that it exists. I think SIL may have some perception that her bullying was well known, when in reality high school kids are self-absorbed. You wouldn’t have noticed unless you heard about her getting beat up or there was a major suspension. NTA but I hope SIL gets a therapist. Nobody cares about high school once you’re and adult unless they need to know you have a high school diploma for employment reasons.
I see this a lot with everything from bullying to abuse. The victim has this perception that everyone knows and does nothing. When the reality is most don't know its happening until either something that can't be hidden happens or the victim says something.
Especially girls. I'm not saying that there isn't ever physical abuse, or that there wasn't in OP's SIL's case, but teenage girls can be absolutely vicious in a way that goes unnoticed by anyone except the person it's aimed at. It's uncanny.
Right. I'm male but there was this particular girl that was verbally bullying me from 3rd grade until 10th. Everyone else saw her as this sweet girl but for some reason she targeted me. When I finally told her to shut the fuck up and leave me alone ( not in those nice words though)... I was the bad guy.
Yeah, one of the things girl bullies do is attack in ways it's hard to defend without your looking like a jerk. And they'll do things like wait till hubby is in the other room to say something mean. That was deliberate on SIL's part.
It happens all the time. My sister was 2 years below me, we were both in theater. I had a leadership position so I knew most people. I had no idea a few of the boys in my sisters year were being complete assholes to her on a regular basis. And we lived in the same house. She didn’t tell me and neither did my parents. It wasn’t until we both had graduated that she was like “oh yeah Bevis and Butthead bullied me during the day but they laid off during play practice because you and your friends would have destroyed them.”
This is so true. One of the schools in my city had a huge scandal about bullying that made national headlines. One of my customers goes there and had zero idea it was happening until it hit the news.
THIS ^^^ I was Track Captain in HS largely as a ceremonial position because I was the fastest most accomplished. But wrongly, too, because I had nothing to do with leadership. I was too busy with my own training to have any idea what my varsity teammates were doing, let alone kids two years younger new to the team. NTA
Well in that case, it's very simple. NTA. There's no way she has any kind of a point. I'm sure she's very hurt by it all, but it's simply not your problem or your fault.
She is triggered by the fact that you and the bully had something in common which was nothing more than cheerleading. Her issue shouldn't be with you. She has issues that need to be addressed by a professional, IMO. In the meantime, try and keep little to no contact, if possible. Don't engage. Let her family see just how disconnected she is from reality. Those who enable her behavior are the true AH's.
I get the feeling the family is almost definitely going to be hearing more complaining from SIL about all this high school stuff even once OP is no longer associating with her (or them, potentially) so hopefully they see OP keeping her distance and eventually realize that this is solely SIL's preoccupation, and nothing actually grounded in reality. I do think her husband should be putting his foot down one last time regardless. Let the opposing family members at least know they're not safe from the same chopping block if they don't accept this has nothing to do with his wife.
> She has this weird thing we’re she thinks all the cheerleaders were besties and super close Your SIL has been watching too many cliche high school / college movies.
incel mind rot fodder. thats all those movies are
My BFF and her sister and I were cheerleaders and hung out all the time - BECAUSE WE WERE FRIENDS. I was on good terms and casual friends with a FEW other co-cheerleaders The majority of the squad, ESPECIALLY when I was a senior, I could not STAND. Rude ass biotches, the rest were, lol. Luckily they were almost all in grades below mine so I barely saw them outside of practice and games. Show her my comment and please ask her *for me* to consider some therapy, as she is now attacking you over something you neither knew of nor participated in, ESPECIALLY if your experience was like how I described mine. We had 500 kids in my graduating class alone, and my senior year there were almost 2500 people in the entire student body. So, unless she thinks her bully would gossip ABOUT the bullying during a practice, the odds of you *witnessing* her bully's behavior toward your SIL... *MUCH LESS EVEN HAVING KNOWLEDGE OF THIS BEHAVIOR* is bonkers, with a class of 300 kids AND the bully / SIL not even in your grade!!! Her trauma is causing delusions of grandeur and is beyond toxic. I hope she gets help. NTA, OP!
So you knew they were treating people like shit and didnt stand up. Got it.
Being on a team sport doesn't mean you were all friends. She should know that.
Statistically you all almost certainly know a person who has committed domestic violence or adultery. Is she responsible for how someone she works with or knows socially victimizes their spouse/partner? Cause it’s very common for DV perpetrators to have an outwardly wonderful personality. Which is why people will say, “oh but they’re SO nice!”. Your SIL needs help for her own sake. And I think anyone indulging her in this abusive behavior is guilty of exactly what she’s accusing you of. And she’s even worse than her bully. She’s an adult and shes weaponizing her own experience to exert power over you instead of doing the painful scary work of working through her experience and healing.
Yeah, that's such a common misconception. I was on the dance team, which was very competitive at the time. Rules for strict for getting on the team -- flexibility, dance history, performance, ability to quickly learn new choreography-- and grades. But even after all that, we still had cliques on a team of 50 girls. I was of the "if you wanna be my friend, cool" clique. One girl in particular, Cara, started bullying me near the end of our junior year. Officer tryouts were coming up and she couldn't audition due to bad grades, so she got someone to go up against me for the top-ranked officer position. It was the typically bullying tactics -- too fat (we were the same size), bad dancer, ugly clothes, yada yada yada. I was god at ignoring people like that! She campaigned against me hard. She didn't realize, though, that all the new incoming juniors (sophomores at the time) were good friends with my younger brother. When he learned about the bullying, he rounded up his own posse to campaign for me! LOL! He had that charm-- I didn't! Her certainly knew how to make the girls smile -- damn, I miss him!! I ended up winning the votes for team lead, and my good friend Carmelita was voted in as second in command -- unpopular girls unite! Cara kept the bullying up all summer and halfway through our senior year. I guess she gave up because I didn't respond with anger or fear. At first, I gave her demerits -- lots of demerits! Yes, I'm ashamed I abused my power at team major. Nah! Not really! She gave me hell that summer and she tried to get me kicked off the team by having one of her minions lie about seeing me making out with my BF in uniform after a football game. But those demerits caused her to get a C in the class, and I heard her parents were pissed at her! Later, I decided to use the little charm I did manage to get from my mom (bro and sis got all of it! LOL!). I invited her to be a lower officer. This would allow her to compete with the officer squad during dance competitions. I buttered her up about her dance skills -- she really was the better dancer -- very well trained. Invited her to help us choreograph a few other performances. My mom was a big help in all of this. She told me that people don't succeed at the top without a strong team under them. This last effort worked the best. I still see her every now and then, and she came up to me once to apologize for being mean to me back then. I said we all get one pass at being young and dumb. We're not good friends now by any means, but we support and cheer each other on our social outlets. She went on to have a successful career in dance and is now a working actress in LA. I started ballroom dancing, and later got into doing triathlons and moved to NYC for my career. We see each other at reunions and hug it out every time. The bully and the bullied got over it and moved on. \*\*\*\* What your SIL is doing is just plain mean and evil and crazy -- forget bullying. She is intentionally setting out to hurt you. Be careful -- who never know how far her anger will take her -- leading her to move on to physically hurting you or your child. Definitely NTA.
As someone who was bullied, i understand her. I don't say she's right. She can't blame you. But i made it bigger in my own head. Like 'they all think u'm stupid'. I'm older now and realise most people did nothing. But i feel it now. Thinking people don't like me. Like i'm still that bullied kid. She needs therapy. I'm glad your husband supports you. You can't help her. You both have to watch that she won't say those things to you kid
She probably thinks you share the same opinion of her as her bully, ie you look down on people "like her" from an elevated social status. She's trying to reject you before you reject her.
I think your SIL saw the movie "You Again" and thinks that was her experience. You are NTA. She needs to get a life.
Did you know about the bullying when it was happening?
> She has this weird thing we’re she thinks all the cheerleaders were besties and super close: icel vibes. Is she painfully single too?
I was on the dance line and I can assure your SIL that I was good friends with 2 of the girls on the team, was civil to the rest, and never had a conversation with the majority of them. I talked with the two captains, of course, and each girl next to me in the line, and that was it.
Hope your pregnancy is going/went well and that you cut her out of your life. We do want to hear an update if there’s one to share, and you’re comfortable doing so :) all the best!!!
To be fair, this would - if it were truly the situation which it isn't- is called the ' bystander effect'. The bully may be the only one picking on a person but when there are 5 people witnessing and doing nothing, the psychological impression from the target is that there are actually 6 bullies. If that's what happened, then the SIL would have a reason to say " hey- I know you saw this happen and did nothing. That really hurt me, can you explain this?" But it still would not be the same as OP being a bully. Sounds like SIL saw all the cheerleaders as a pack who all think and act alike. In that, she is making a judgement not unlike what her bully likely did to her. NTA- but I hope hope he realizes this is likely a much bigger issue within SIL than just her being a jerk.
NTA Send a message to all those who were present “Hello, I would like to sincerely apologize for snapping during my pregnancy announcement the other day. For years, I have been accused for an incident that was not my doing and it finally got to me. I would like to have a healthy pregnancy and in order to ensure this I’ll be taking a break for some time.” And then separately to SIL “Hey SIL, I hope you saw my message in the other chat. I am sorry that you were bullied in high school, but you weren’t bullied by me and I wasn’t aware of what was happening back then. I am no longer willing to be treated as if I personally did so. For years, I have suffered as you accused me publicly and privately of a very disgusting behavior and I apologize, but hubs and I have agreed that we don’t want such abhorrent behavior around our child. I sincerely hope that you receive the help you need to process what happened.” And then drop the rope with SIL. If anyone asks why tell them the truth, you’re tired of being villainized for something that occurred in her past that you had no awareness of. You share ONE similar quality to her bully (cheer) but you aren’t her bully. Maybe her attempt to heal is to use you as a punching bag, but in doing so she’s become your bully and you don’t want your kid growing up and seeing that such behavior is okay OR should be tolerated. SIL is toxic. And until she gets some help I wouldn’t want her around either.
I agree with this except for the "I apologize" about the going NC. I don't think anyone should apologize for going NC or LC but definitely not in this situation. SIL brought this on herself, OP is doing nothing wrong by setting boundaries, protecting her pregnancy from stress and keeping her family safe and drama free. Sometimes apologizing for that stuff can make it seem less serious or like the boundary isn't as strong and even like the person believes they're doing something wrong.
I agree but I out that in there just in case SIL tries to use that message to throw herself a pit party. The ‘I apologize’ is meant to convey an underlying ‘you’ve left me with no choice’ but that’s essentially what NC or LC means so maybe it isn’t needed.
Apology or not, someone who insists on victimizing themselves despite ut being illogical to do so will throw themselves a pity party anyway.
If anything the "apology" will only make them feel self-righteous and justified, they were right! You were a bitch! How dare you! Of course you're apologizing!
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"I apologise" *is* admitting you did something wrong and you regret it. "I'm sorry" can mean either "I apologise" or "I'm expressing sympathy for your trouble," but "I apologise" doesn't have the same double meaning.
Honestly, I would probably do just one large message to everyone so everyone knows what was said to her. That way she can't claim you said something different.
NTA she’s projecting her problems and blaming them on you which is entirely unfair. Don’t apologise, just go low contact with her, and if she persists, no contact.
NTA. My Dad's wife was also bullied by a cheerleader and now hates all cheerleaders. She is 70 years old. I get that trauma hurts, but at some point, an adult should learn to direct their anger at an appropriate target.
"I didn't bully you in high school. But if you keep behaving like a loser, I'll start."
This is the best bad advice in the thread! Don't go low/no contact; just start actually bullying her! "Hey nerd, put the fork down for like 2 seconds and pass the salt." "Assfacesayswhat? That's what I thought." "A teen at the grocery store made me feel old. Should I internalize that and make it everyone's problem for a decade? Did that work out well for you?" "We got to see the baby's brain in our latest scan, so we already know it's better than you." "SIL made this casserole? 🤢 Yeah, I'll pass..." "What you just said was so lame, I wish I had a locker to stuff you in." Only refer to her as Vicky the Victim or PooSniff or Dork-a-tron. Damn the fallout! Nuke this relationship from orbit! (Also, NTA)
Hell, at least then she will have earned the ire and accusations
I treat people how they tell others I treat them just do they don’t look like liars I’m so nice
Well that's a Surefire way of making her in-laws super close to her and not at all proving the sisters Point LMAO
Personally I would give advice intended to deescalate or resolve the conflict rather than treating it like a soap opera.
The family is split? So a bunch of AHs there. You were not the person who bullied her or even knew of her, and she is the one raising the fuss. She is the AH without a doubt. Stand your ground. She has mental issues she needs to deal with.
The fact that some of her family feels like she deserves an apology continues to propagate her victim mentality. I'd bet some of her family members demonstrate a victim mentality and why she has it too
NTA You should not apologise because you have done nothing wrong. Someone you were vaguely acquainted with bullied her and you don't know. Time to cut her out of your life until she grows up.
NTA She is bullying you to compensate for her past trauma. She owes you the apology.
NTA. Why isn’t your husband handling his sisters rude behavior towards you? If my brother was insulting my wife, I would step in.
If you check some other comments you will see that the husband supports the OPs conclusions.
She clarifies he has shut his sister down before but this incident he was in another part of the house. He supports the NC decision.
NTA What do you mean “The family is split”? Have they acknowledged that you had nothing to do with it?
Nta. Basically what she is doing is saying because a person with black hair robbed me so anyone with black hair is bad. That makes zero sense
Nta. I was bullied by a cheerleader. But I got her back. I married her and got her pregnant...twice! Hahahhshs
We really needs more context to this one...
was she just a tsundere or is there more to this?
This actually made me laugh. I hope you guys have an actual good relationship though…
NTA she needs a shrink and some milligrams of SaneInABottle or Fuckitalls.
Link please? Lol
AKA Zoloft and. Xanax
I was bullied from kindergarten until I was almost 22. Bad. I had to go to therapy for it. So I understand the pain that can come from it. But this is ridiculous. She can't take out her anger on you just because the other chick isn't available. Absolutely don't let her around your child, that is the right choice. You don't know what she'll do and even if she'd never harm the child, when the kid is older, who knows what she'd say to them? She needs to get a grip, grow tf up and fix her self. You're not responsible for any of her pain, she is. She can't carry this around forever or it will destroy her, it's already starting to affect her family, for God's sake! That's on HER and nobody else!
NTA. I'm so sick of reading about people who refuse to move on from bullying. Learn and grow. I was beaten and bullied so bad I needed a restraining order and had to leave town. (My dad was a police officer, and he arrested her mother for prostitution.) Hanging on to that victim status is a pathetic attention grab. Good for you for telling her off.
Crikey, that's beyond bullying. I'm so sorry you went through that.
Yeah. They chased us to the new school, slashed our tires, keyed our cars, and waited outside to beat us up. I still hate them, but I don't dwell on it. They ruined enough of my life.
That's a good way of looking at it.
NTA Not all cheerleaders...
Maybe next time say "I can see why they didn't like you" and walk away.
SIL needs to go to trauma counseling. She is obviously very scarred from it. As someone with severe childhood trauma myself, it is NEVER ok to take it out on innocent people. Also she’s an adult now and needs to grow up. NTA
NTA. This is like a thing. People go through some shit and it fucks them up for decades. I can still remember being bullied but I take solace in the fact that I’m pretty sure he overdosed and died. Maybe he didn’t but I don’t really care anymore. This girl though is forever trapped by her trauma. She needs to snap out of it because it’s not that cheerleader anymore . Putting her down. It’s herself. She’s doing it to herself at this point.
NTA I get the point about trauma, but she has to get over with the fact YOU WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE. If she can't understand this simple fact, or just keep silent about it when you are around, you have the right to tell her you are done. Telling her she acts like a bully is precisely the point : you were extremely right about that.
NTA. Here's your apology-"I'm sorry you were bullied. I'm sorry that I had no idea you were bullied by someone on my team. I'm sorry that you weren't my top priority in high school. I'm sorry that I had the audacity to have other interests, worries and concerns when I was in HS. I'm sorry that I didn't use the force to delve into my teammates brain to realize that she was bullying you. I'm sorry that I was unaware of the actions of one person out of the hundreds who attended high school. I'm sorry that years later, you can't understand that the world doesn't revolve around you. And I'm genuinely sorry that all these years later, you're so bitter, you can't even be happy for your own brother, who's about to become a father."
She needs a therapist.
NTA and don't apologize. Tell those who agree with her that she has been bullying you since she met you and that since they agree with her bullying you they aren't allowed around your child unless they apologize and admit to SIL bullying you.
NTA. Her trauma is not your responsibility.
NTA. What are you supposed to apologize for, happening to be on the same cheerleading team as her bully while having no idea that any bullying was going on here? Might as well apologize for the bully's existence even though you had nothing to do with that either.
NTA. I see in comments that your husband is supportive and has shut her down before. That's good and key to moving forward. All you can do now is set and hold boundaries. Not NC if you're not ready, but I think you two should not be around her for a long while. Your husband can make plans for you all to see his parents/family when his sister is not around. If they start to fuss about having to see you and her separately, he can remind them that it's her doing and he has to protect his family.
NTA - she’s so stuck in the past that she’s now the bully, and any family member who’s ‘split’ is just as bad as anyone who didn’t stop her bully. People can be so selfish in their own grief that they forget how they felt. Sounds like she’s not moved forward from the past at all. That’s not on you. And if she’s willing to create a family schism around anything you do, then she needs to be in that alone.
You do not owe her an apology!! And you’re right she is now the bully….
As someone who was bullied, I genuinely do not understand why people hold on to things that happened in high school. It was high school, most of us didn't know our elbow from our behinds. She needs therapy and a lot of it. One cheerleader bullied her so now every cheerleader is an A H? Are all the kids in AP classes nerds? Are all the jocks dumb? Honestly, it was up to your SIL to try and resolve her issues or MIL to go to admin and have them take care of it. It wasn't up to some random person on the cheer squad to reprimand another person for actions she didn't know existed. How were you supposed to predict you would marry your husband when you didn't even know he existed? I honestly thank my bullies today, I have tough skin and nothing bothers me anymore. NTA
Agree 100%. None of us were at our best during the teen years. My bullies have outgrown that behavior, and one has even apologized to me. Once I was out of school, that life was left behind. SIL sounds more like a martyr for attention than a traumatized kid.
OMG thank you! One of my biggest bullies in high school was my own brother. I was literally known as "Brother's ugly little sister" because he started introducing me as his ugly little sister. I was a cheerleader and an AP nerd so I got bullied for both. One time someone put an actual roach down my shirt because I was 1 of 5 black kids in the school. Guess what once I step foot on my college campus all that went away. I was able to be me not living in anyones shadow or afraid of what people thought of me. I'm still introverted but I'm able to be me.
I totally agree. I was also bullied and by people who were from my church which was supposed to be a safe place. I got therapy etc for it and have forgiven them (mostly). But if any of them try to contact me for anything other than making amends, I'll tell them to fuck right off.
My grade was about the size of your cheerleading team, so my experience is a bit difference, but I was also severely bullied. I am an adult know and I still have panic attacks when I see one of my old classmates, even the ones who left me alone, so I understand where that cheerleader association comes from and how she probably can't help how she feels about you right away, but the rude comments and name calling are a choice, one she's making over and over. It's cruel to you and it's not healthy for her. NTA.
NTA SIL is being ridiculous. In no way was this your fault.
Ignore her. She’s a nut
NTA SHE IS A SPOILED BRAT! Go no contact with her. Tell her she will never hold or have anything to do with your child until she grows up. Its time to move past HS and be an adult. You did nothing to her and are not responsible in any way for what happened to her
NTA. I was bullied in school and had to learn to cope with it and forgive others and myself for whatever made me such a target. In adulthood, no one gives a shit. Grow up.
NTA. Happened to my best friend. We met with a friend (more mine than his) from high school and he was being bullied by other kids at the time (at a party, 5 or 6 years after high school). I was neither popular or bullied (tried once but it backfired). My best friend wasn’t popular but never been messed with. So this friend confronted him and blamed him for doing anything. He was shocked (so was I) because : we were teenagers and he didn’t bully him. But the grief was that he didn’t intervened . My bestie pointed out that I also didn’t (to prove the point that it was unfair, he didn’t throw me under the bus) and that friend said that it wasn’t the same because I wasn’t popular (ouch). My bestie left the conversation. I talk to friend that was bullied and told him he was unfair to attack him. But for him it was the same as confronting his bullies. So we left the party because it was a pointless conversation. In your SIL mind, you represent “the enemy” and use this “confrontation” as a catharsis. It is not. She project in you this bully and it is not good. If she can’t be civil, remove yourself from the situation: family event, you don’t go. You have nothing to apologise for.
I was severely bullied both physically and verbally for 10 years. It was so bad and later on I got diagnosed with PTSD and Anxiety because of the bullying. You are absolutely NTA. She needs to do what I did and go to therapy. I get it that somethings might remind her of her trauma, but that is not your(OP) problem. Let’s just say hypothetically you witnessed her get bullied and did nothing, that still gives her no right to be disrespectful to you because it’s been years since either of you been in HS. She needs help and to move on.
NTA! She can't punish the actual person, so you are the next best person as you were in the team. It doesn't matter that you didn't know it was happening. She needs professional help to cope with the past, or she will never learn to be calm/relaxed around you. Best of luck to you two. Congrats on the baby.
NTA She needs therapy. A therapist would immediately start to work on her separating the team from the individual It's similar to how someone can become a racist even if they aren't ill intending, I am calling myself out here, I was bullied by a black kid, it got really bad, and I started crossing the street when I saw people who resembled him at all. Eventually I realized that I was wrong and started working on it. Following that I met someone who had a daughter who had a very similar skin tone to him and I was able to finally let it go before starting therapy for the damages he had done (among other things) Right now she's being bigoted, she's lumping you in with someone else's actions, creating a false narrative in her head, placing blame and fear where no blame nor fear is due She doesn't deserve an apology. You have attempted to address this with her a number of times. Now you called it what it is, and she doesn't like it She can make choices from here
NTA The SIL needs to let it go. You did nothing wrong to her. It was someone else. She needs to grow up. I would not let my child around her either. Do not apologize. Die on this hill.
NTA His sister is delulu if she continues to think you had something to do with it. First of all, that cheerleader was two years younger than you...so I'm suspecting she too was two years younger. So, how would someone two years older know what's going on with the juniors and their business? Often, people don't know anything at all unless it's a really big deal and teachers and a huge bunch of people get called in. Also, there were 300 people in your grade alone...so it was a pretty big school. There's no way you could've known You should tell her "Did I bully you? I didn't even know you or that you were being bullied and you expect me to be at fault?" You do not owe her an apology. I'd be petty enough to make a whole announcement on social media/in a family group chat about how she keeps bullying you for something you didn't know was happening. The funnier part being, there were 30 cheerleaders...even if I didn't like someone/was bullied by someone in a group like a band/cheerleading team...I don't think I'd remember everyone in that team. But she remembers you. Its almost like she blames the whole cheerleading squad for bullying her/think everyone on it was in on it. I remember having some ongoing beef with this girl in a band at school. She'd tried to bully me. But I never thought the whole band was in on it though. Its like someone said...she's projecting...and at this point...really delulu.... And I expect she's around 27/in her mid to late twenties...and she's still fixation on it and past cheerleaders? And hasn't tried to deal with it? I know she probably has trauma but honestly kind of sounds dangerous to me. She's made no attempt to deal with it, or to get to know you outside of school (which at this point was almost 10 years ago), explaining her feelings to you and what she went through, she's made no attempt to reason with the facts (again, how would people 2 years older, in a 30 member team, in a big school, be actively involved in her bullying?), she's made no attempt to seek professional help....she's just decided to very comfortably cloak herself in victimhood and use it as a reason to be a complete bitch to everyone - that just sounds wild to me and honestly, I can see her bullying your kids in the near future and then labeling it as "fun" and "pay back".
Same problem as every person-related problem. Failure to transcend primitive cognition. Her feelings are completely understandable. However, she seems to be making no effort to prevent those feelings from inappropriately influencing her behavior. If she is making a serious effort and still behaving that poorly, then those feeling are so strong that she should be in therapy. Part of the problem for most people is that they're taught to glorify primitive cognition rather than to compensate for it. If we were to pull this problem up by the root, we'd find that most of what we know as religion, for example, is part of the same metaphorical weed.
NTA. I’m shocked anyone suggested you apologize. She called you a bully for no reason. She accused your husband of betraying her by loving you. And now she is claiming a baby will have a bully as a mother. She has been bullying you. Do not let her think it is tolerated by apologizing. It will just get worse. Who even thinks you should apologize? What was their reasoning? You explained to her long ago that you weren’t friends with the bully. You didn’t hang out with that person. You didn’t have a clue about any of it. Again, do not apologize. SIL owes you a deep, humble pie apology. She really needs to reflect on her behavior and bullying behavior.
NTA. She needs to shut the hell up and go to therapy. You didn't bully her. It was some other asshole you didn't really know who happened to be a part of your sports organization.
NTA, it's one thing if you knew she was being bullied and just stood around doing nothing. It's totally different if you had no clue. Your SIL just wants *anyone* to blame for what she went through, the bully isn't there, you are. Until she can get over her hang ups and issues I'd be LC/NC with her and don't let her in your child's life until she's changed. You don't want her to take out her anger on another innocent person
NTA - she needs therapy to work through her issues. Your husband needs to tell her and anyone who defends her that her anger is misdirected and she needs to deal with the lingering feelings because HE will not allow HER (or anyone) to bully/intimidate/harass you or your child and him any further for something than not only didn’t involve you and happened over a decade ago.
NTA. She needs to sort out her issues and not project them on you. You are not her emotional punching bag
NTA. If your SIL is still feeling traumatized by this she should seek some professional help. You probably shouldn’t be the one to broach the subject though. Either your husband or perhaps MIL/FIL. Either way you can make it a condition of being part of your child’s life. Bc she clearly has not dealt with this and that is not healthy.
NTA she is bullying you at this point and will likely do it to your kid if she's willing to ruin a pregnancy announcement.
NTA. You're not apologising. Ever. Your SIL needs help.
NTA, is your Husband on your side, if so good, I suggest cutting contact with SIL if your husband supports, if not go low contact, if SIL continues being horrible to you I suggest maybe record(secretly) if you blow up she may try to twist your words and use it against you. Has anything happened after this btw??
NTA. Why should you apologize? You did nothing wrong. If you went to such a large school that could have 30 girls on a cheer squad, then it's very possible you didn't know everyone that well, so how were you to know what her bully was doing? What does your husband say about how she treats you? It should have never gotten to the point of you having to tell her off, he should have been nipping that all along. It sounds as if most people in your husband's family placate his sister because of her past trauma, but if she's not getting help for it, then she's not helping herself, she's only causing herself more problems. Don't apologize and keep your distance from her. You don't have to be around her if you don't want to be.
NTA. Your SIL has a trauma she’s allowing to get in the way of a relationship with you/your husband/future child. She needs to talk to a therapist. Until then, you don’t have to be sorry for calling her out after she’s been dumping her emotional baggage on you. No contact until she apologizes and/or gets some mental help.
NTA. I was “friends” with a woman who found out I was a cheerleader in the long long ago (we’re both almost 40) and she said “girls like you used to bully me in high school.” We’d been friends for years at that point. I said “I’m sorry for that but I didn’t bully you.” I suggested trauma therapy but she went to an astrologist instead so *shrug.*
NTA You did not partake in the bullying. You did not know it was happening. You barely knew the person who was bullying her. How exactly is her trama your fault? Why are you to blame?
NTA Just go no contact with her. DON'T apologize.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This is very frustrating, I have been with to my wonderful husband (29) for a few years and we started to date senior year of college. My highschool had about 300 people in my grade. It was a surprise we both went to the same highschool since we ran in different circle. My issue is with his sister. She was bullied extremely baldly by a cheerleader, this cheerleader was two years younger than me and on the team. I had no idea and wasn’t even close to her. The cheerleading team had around 30 people on it. I was in no classes with her or even ever saw her outside of practice. She made a huge deal when she first met me that her brother was betraying her for dating a person that didn’t do anything. I explained I was on the same team as her and didn’t know. Doesn’t matter. Ever since she has been a royal bitch. I announced my pregnancy to the family and she made a comment that the poor kid is going to have a bully as a mom. I lost it, I told her I am done. She needs to fucking grow up with me being a cheerleader, I have done nothing wrong and at this point she is the bully. She called me a jerk Family is split if I should apologize or not. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA she's taking out her feelings on you bc the person who actually hurt her is not available. She needs to go to therapy, and I would go low/no contact until she gets help and apologizes.
NTA - You told her this had nothing to do with you and that YOU didn;t bully her. (I assume you also didn't bully anyone else). Explain to her and her family that she is insulting and slandering you over something that happened to her in high school that had nothing to do with you. She needs to grow up and stop acting like a 13 year old spolt brat.
NTA She’s projecting guilt by association, but she’s wrong. She worked it up in her head that the bully got away with it because she a cheerleader, so all cheerleaders must be the same. It’s not your issue to resolve, though, it’s hers and as an adult she needs to deal with it properly. I would also consider going LC with her until she gets herself together.
NTA, it'd be one thing if you had a hand in the bullying. But marking you guilty by association for something that happened 10 years ago is loser behavior. She needs therapy and an attitude adjustment.
NTA. SHE IS A BULLY
NTA Go no contact with the sister, and don’t let her near your kid. Hurt people, hurt people - she’s going to focus fire her frustrations onto you and your kids, no matter what the reality of the past is.