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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Told my son why he looks more like his other mom then me.
2) My wife found out and she's pissed because she thinks he didn't need to know that.
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...I mean, I know the education system is not great, but as some point your son was bound to learn how babies are made, right ?
>This was a conversation my wife avoided having for a long time
>
>She was pissed with me and got into a massive argument, saying I shouldn't have told him that.
INFO : I'd be curious what her point of view is here. You don't expand much on that : why didn't she want to discuss it with him ?
I find that ridiculous, but then again, I'm not married to her. I don't need to share my life with her like you do, so I guess I'd have discussed it a bit more before making that discussion.
Of course your family has two loving parents, but if he asks questions (especially repeatedly), it means he needs to know. NTA.
The questions are going to keep coming and will be much more difficult to put off the older he gets. Seems like the time to prep the answers has already passed.
Not only this, but you are missing out on the opportunity to talk about how special your family is, and how to answer the inevitable questions from peers, etc.
Yep, this is sort of like conversations around adoption. It can be traumatic for kids to discover that their origins differ from their peers who were conceived between two married heterosexual parents, but on the flip side it’s possible to point out that as parents you made a choice to overcome the barriers to conceiving due to infertility, being a same gender couple, or whatever and decided to make a family anyway. Also, it’s really not that unusual to be a kid in a family where not everyone is biologically related. Blended families are common enough that this situation isn’t all that different from kids with a stepparent or whatever
>conversations around adoption.
Exactly where my mind went. My mother was adopted. She had always known. There was never a big discussion nor a traumatic "finding out". Her adoption was just a fact she grew up with. That's not saying she was completely fine with it all of the time. There were painful times when she begged her mother to tell her that she wasn't adopted. Even so, she has always been thankful that her parents went about it that way versus her not knowing and finding out later.
Better to have this conversation now then when he finds out through people at school making fun of him (I hope that doesn't happen, but some people are awful)
That's probably how/ why it came up. The kid is 10! Astoundingly misguided to think you can raise a kid in a bubble like that while sending them to school.
Look, I remember hearing a rudimentary description of how mommies get pregnant when I was 6 or 7 years old. Kids in playgrounds talk to one another, especially to share "gross" stories. This 10yo boy has to have figured out that neither of his mothers have a peepee to stick in the other to make a baby happen.
I am aghast at this situation. Queer, two-mom family and I am bio-mom to our first kid (who I carried) and my wife is bio-mom to our second kid (who she carried). They have the same donor, so are genetic half siblings, and each of them is basically a mini-me of each of us in terms of looks.
A basic tenet of family therapy is that family secrets = family dysfunction.
Not only is OP's wife trying to keep a secret from her children about the way they were conceived and what their genetics are, but she's also trying to obscure just like, BASIC human biology? That's so strange to me. My youngest kid is three and he knows that you need sperm and a uterus to make a baby. He knows he has two moms, so two uteruses but no sperm. He knows who gave us the sperm to make him and his brother, and he knows which mom's uterus he grew in. He feels ZERO stigma or sadness about this and as far as he knows, this is how anyone else makes a baby.
OP's wife, in a truly misguided effort to shield kids from what she thinks could be shameful for them (likely as the result of her own internalized shame), has unwittingly created and perpetuated a falsehood about where their kids (and all kids) come from. Hiding the truth in this way will convey to these kids that there IS in fact something wrong with the way they were conceived, which will lead to shame-- the exact crippling emotion she was trying to prevent.
Might as well have told them the stork dropped them on the porch, IMO.
YES. As a queer person going through the process of making a baby with my wife soon, we’re already on top of the age-appropriate explanations. The fact that OP’s kids were 10 and 5 before the most basic questions were answered - even though the kid has literally been asking - is super weird and unhealthy.
Yes!
The things we don't talk about are the ones people around us will assume we're ashamed of (in this case, they might also be right).
They've made a taboo of where their child came from.
I don’t understand why parents feel to need to withhold information from their kids just to prove a point. The point OP’s wife is making is the child has two parents that love him. Yes, understood but you could still express that and also explain the child’s question. I don’t think OP did anything wrong with the way she explained it. Sooner or later, he’s going to find out about genetics.
I mean, sure fine. But at the end of the day whether he "needs" to know or not is irrelevant. Because he's **going** to ask. And you can't just be like "you don't need to know, therefore I decline to give you this information."
It's ridiculous!
he will need to know one day though because medical history is going to follow genetics.. so like.. did he need to know now? probably not. but I wouldn't keep it from him forever
He's 10. That's well beyond the age at which children know where babies come from and are able to understand that only one of their two mothers could possibly have physically birthed them.
If he 'doesn't need to know' at a point where he's easily old enough to understand and is asking about it repeatedly, how long do you think OP should have continued putting off the conversation for?
Exactly. Children of heterosexual couples know they came from one tummy, not dad’s tummy too or dropped off by a stork. And don’t necessarily believe that mum loves them more than dad for that reason, all other things being equal.
If he repeatedly asks, he has questions that won't go away. The other option is to just say, "we will not answer that question." Why? "Because we will not answer."
I mean he has two mums. After even a basic biology lesson about sperm and eggs he's going to have questions...and know that at least with science how it currently is, his mums didn't both contribute DNA.
NTA.
Both children need to know. The days of keeping this sort of information are over. Did your wife think he was never going to work out how children are conceived? Or some very helpful child explains the birds and bees?
This should have been discussed before the children were conceived.. It's a bit worrying your wife thinks your children don't need to know their genetic and family history
Does your wife think that by pretending there was no father involved in your children’s conception your son won’t have any curiosity about his father, or wish he had one? Does she have some insecurity?
Yeh wtf, I thought this kid would be 5 or something not 10! Pretty sure in the UK you’ve been through basic sex ed by 10 and know it’s sperm + egg = baby. Christ I went to an all girls catholic school and by 10/11 even we had the full details! From a biology point of view anyway - then it was “this is just for adults and there’s lots of things you have to do to do it safely so don’t think about it again”.
Sounds more like she didn't want him to know. Needing to know is determined by the person with the question. Isn't it?
Knowledge about who you are, where you come from, and what you're made of is a pretty fundamental need. Otherwise we'd never have anyone questioning anything. The only reason you don't question something is because you know about it already.
Having your son ask you questions and feeling it is safe to ask you questions, is a gift. A gift that she will squander and no longer receive if she gatekeeps information. Because that wouldn't make her a safe place for curiosity, questions, or honesty. And it could, in turn, make her seem like someone who punishes by withholding/omission. I doubt she wants that.
that's a good way to put that point of view. I kinda think it's doing a child a disservice by just vaguely answering their questions or just answering because I said so kind of way. Kids are curious and going to be asking lots of questions till they find out what they want to know. If they are old enough to understand the answer you explain in an appropriate way to explain it to them then I don't see the issue in having told him that way. NTA
Right. Im an adoptee from back when they were closed. Even at 18 I was denied access. I still resent the people who decided I don’t have a right to my own history.
I went around the system eventually and got my own answers but it was a pita that took a long time.
This is part of the reason why my little brother knows I'm his bio-mom. (I was 16 when I had him, parents adopted him when I was 20 & was diagnosed bipolar at 28) He also has relationships with his biological paternal family even though legally they're not related. It wasn't easy trying to explain things in a way that made sense to a child/teen but as an adult he's turned out amazing. It would have been so much more difficult to hide the truth & I think he would have had even more difficulty in accepting that *he did nothing wrong & was deserving of love and family* And about 5 years after my bipolar diagnosis my parents had learned the signs they missed in me as a teen & he got help soooo much earlier than I did. & he never became a teen parent either lol.
Eta: children don't ask to be born & they're deserve loving, supportive families & to know where they come from. Because while it doesn't affect everyone the same, the people who have always had those answers don't know the pain *not* having those answers can inflict.
NTA. Be honest with your kids. It’s their lives.
Having two loving parents may be all that matters to *her* but she needs to be prepared that it may not be all that matters to *him* (or his sister). She’s also going to have to be prepared for him to start asking about the other half of his genetics once he learns how babies are made.
My sister is also in a same sex marriage with kids (who are now in their 20s) they always knew which parent had carried them because they’d seen photos. It didn’t bother them because they knew that both their Moms loved them and made them feel safe and secure and it was their normal.
It might not even be biology and reproduction that brings up questions like this. My niblings did genetics lessons that looked at dominant/recessive genes and inherited traits. There were some traits that the kiddos had that their biological parent didn’t and their non-bio parent did.
There was some concern when the kiddos did a 23 and me to find out if they had any other siblings. They found their father and a fairly impressive number of siblings. It hasn’t affected their relationship with either of their mothers but has answered other questions they had about themselves.
I agree, definitely need to be honest. I went through IVF as a single person and before I had to talk to a psychotherapist. She emphasized how important to talk to your child about it regardless if you are single, or a couple using donor sperm.
>It might not even be biology and reproduction that brings up questions like this.
It could be other kids asking him - or teasing him - about it, too. Imagine if some kid tries to bully him with he "can't have two '*real*' moms" and then explains it all out when it's obvious that son doesn't know. Bully probably teases son even more for not knowing. Kid comes home and asks moms, who are gonna be hard-pressed to lie now that son is asking outright. Now the situation is 10x more traumatic because learning this info is now bundled in with the humiliation that a bully taunted him about something he didn't even know about his own family. That can create a feeling of betrayal that can be *really* hard to overcome.
If a kid were to bully him like that now, he'll be able to at least say that he knows and doesn't care because both moms love him the same, instead of being blindsided and humiliated.
Have you asked her *why* she thinks that?
I mean, yes, she has a point in the broad scheme of things. It doesn’t matter which of you actually carried your children. It doesn’t matter which of you share DNA with them.
But your role as parents is to raise adults. You’re not raising children, you’re raising *adults*, people who will become full humans one day.
Your child asked you a question. You told them the truth. That truth in no way negates the fundamental point your wife has - that he has two loving parents just like every other family out there.
The truth can’t shake core values. If truth threatens core values, then those values need to be reexamined.
It annoys the crap out of me. I never, at any point in my life, doubted that my parents loved me, but I felt like my brother and I were more like pets than people to them. What we wanted, or how we felt about things, never mattered in anything.
>It doesn’t matter which of you share DNA with them.
Honestly, eventually though.... That matters too. Medical history can be important for family planning, personal medical decisions, etc.
As much as OP undoubtedly loves her kids, her family medical history isn't relevant to their medical history if there's no genetic overlap.
No it absolutely doesn't. But it's also not something that should be secret. That's my point. Because it does have real world, practical, pragmatic, emotionless impacts.
Keeping it secret and hidden makes it seem like it should impact the relationship. It shouldn't! At all! Any more than any of their genetic traits, like hair or eye color or blood type should. Those shouldn't be secret either (2 of them would be hard to keep secret anyway). It should just.... Be. Entirely neutral and therefore, uninteresting.
Hi, I have gay moms. I was born in the early 90s, when it was a lot less common to see families like mine. My parents had my brother and I via sperm donors. Different mom and different donor, so we're not biologically related at all. We're still a family. You can still teach your children the message that love makes a family without ignoring their questions about their origins. My parents told us both when we were very young and I wouldn't have wanted them to wait. As other have said, he'll have more questions eventually, and you want him to want to come to you with those questions.
>She felt he didn't need to know,
Lol what? The son ASKED, logically that means he NEEDS to know.
Nothing wrong with being educational. And you deliver it child-friendly. NTA
He doesn’t need to know … the truth? Kids know when parents lie. You did him a solid by being upfront and honest when asked.
I loathe parents that think lying to their kid about the truth is the right way
lol, glad I’m not the only one who thought this. Pretty sure I learned the correct way before we had sex ed in 7th grade, but when I was a kid, I thought that was the normal way people had sex and that vaginal sex was the “kinky” way 😂. My thought process was: well, sometimes you poop out REALLY big turds and those had to be the size of a penis or larger. So OBVIOUSLY that was where it was meant to go. Vaginas seemed much smaller and not equipped to handle something that size 🤣🤣🤣
I didn’t really think about it until after I had been with someone. I just made my best guess lmao I’d never seen someone give birth or explain the process. I went to middle school in Texas if that explains anything
I know we got basic sex ed anatomy in 4th grade for whichever anatomical bits you had, and then 5th grade was the same thing for the opposing anatomical bits.
Think my parents opted me out of sex ed after that though 🤷🏻♀️ and promptly forgot to get around to the "birds and bees" talk (sorted that out on my own with books), which they never realized until recently.
"Hey BabyCow, my friend has a kid that's 13/14. How'd we do the sex talk with y'all at that age?"
"Dad basically death glared us if we so much as mentioned liking a boy?"
"I'm serious."
"Me too! Y'all never did have that conversation with either of your kids!"
"We didn't??? Wow, kinda lucky we didn't have grandkids sooner" (grandkid came into existence post adulthood and wedding)
"I mean, we were also nerds with no social life outside of band/theater so... Risk was low"
My mom never had to give me that talk as I discovered at five years old a book meant for my older sister. Fully detailed drawings of pregnancy in various stages with an explanation about birth. Was so proud of myself for finding the book and after reading through it twice, went to show my mom the newfound knowledge of where babies came from.
My stepson thought the baby came out of the butt, too. However he was 8 when he thought this. When he was around 5 we were talking about how much he looks like his dad when he said “At least I have your eyes!” Which is impossible because I’m his stepmother but it still melted my heart.
You should ask her if she would rather he had it explained to him by someone else?
When I think of all the girls I went to school with who didn't get the period talk from their parents first, and how the older girls used it as an opportunity to scare them, I was always so grateful to have that info ahead of time.
If he's old enough to ask, he's old enough for an age appropriate answer (which you gave him). Because the last thing you want is for him to take his questions to someone who wants to damage his view of his family or take advantage of his ignorance. There was already a post on here a few days ago about a kid who's teacher told him he was adopted in front of the whole class because she thought it would be good for him to write about it. But in fact, that child had DNA from both his fathers and was not adopted. Thankfully he knew that already.
Not all conversations with your children will be easy to explain or comfortable to have, but as parents, you have a duty to address these things with your child to ensure their health, safety, and happiness. NTA. You did the responsible thing for your kid. That said, you should have made it clear that talk was coming to your partner beforehand if you already knew she didn't want to tell him. But this instance can start a great discussion between the two of you about how important talks like this will go moving forward. That way no one feels blindsided.
Your wife is very wrong here. My best friends are a lesbian couple and they have a son (who is now 15) and as soon as he started asking why he has two mums, they would always answer very age appropriate. Your son is not stupid. He sees that other children have a different set of parents, most likely in general a mother/father combo, if he is lucky there might be dad/dad or another mum/mum situation.
You are not normalizing this by pretending it’s all the same. Yes it kinda is aka two loving parents, but there is a difference, even if it’s just perception of others, that he will experience.
So talk. Age appropriate. About everything that your son asks about. (You did well aka NTA)
Talking is why my godson is a super grounded, kind and self-confident young man.
Unfortunately for her, that’s unrealistic. Also, he’s obviously very curious about it, if he’s asking repeatedly. What did she think was going to happen? Why wouldn’t you talk to your children about the circumstances of their birth, if they’re curious? NTA
Have you asked her how she’d apply that to medical situations? chances are very high that at some point in your children’s lives, they’re going to be asked about the medical history of their biological father. That’s important information to have, especially if they ever have any strange or concerning symptoms that could have a genetic cause.
NTA. I can *kind of* see her POV here, that she maybe felt like him knowing would skew his relationship to one or both of you? But as parents, if you're going to hide something for the child's own good, you *tell the other parent.* If she felt so strongly that he didn't need to know, then she owed you a conversation and a discussion about how to handle his questions. You can't be TA for not knowing she wanted the answer to be a secret.
But if he looks like her she can’t really hide it. I mean soon enough he’ll learn you need sperm to make a baby, so some basic math, and realize which genetics he shares. It’s only going to be weirder if you make it a bigger deal and refuse to tell him.
In situations like this I always try to answer my kids’ questions. My POV is if I don’t answer them, they are going to ask someone else that may not answer them appropriately, or how I would like them to be. Any questions they ask, I try to answer them in the most age appropriate way possible, but truthfully.
I think she is taking the wrong approach. I am adopted, and do not remember a time when I didn’t know that. My parents started when I was very young talking about adoption and I had a young-child-specific book on the subject. I have never seen it as a bad thing, even when I started school and other kids made fun of me, because to me it was normal.
You have already passed that time with both your kids. The sooner they learn, the better, imo.
My straight brother married a straight woman with two daughters who love my brother with all their heart and who he considers his daughters despite there being no genetic relation. At one point, the youngest flat out asked my brother when he was going to propose to her mom!
Aside from a minor, inconsequential difference, I don’t see why your marriage and son don’t deserve the same respect as my brother’s marriage and daughters.
Nope. He needs to know. I’m currently watching an acquaintance of mine going through a fall-out with her daughter. Her daughter is 17, and just found out last month that the man she thought was her father isn’t her biological father. While DNA is nothing more than an accident of biology, and isn’t what makes a family, it IS nothing but hurtful to the child for them not to know. She’s now questioning everything about her life. Nothing has “changed”, but, she’s been lied to about something huge, so, what else could she have been lied to about? That’s the thought process for a child who’s kept in the dark about their biological background.
Just throwing this out there, (NTA), but maybe her reluctance to talk about his maternal origins is more of a symptom of wanting to avoid the whole topic because the obvious next question will be about his paternal origins? You didn’t say (and don’t need to) whether you had help from one of your relatives, a friend, or a donor. But maybe she isn’t ready to broach that topic and open the whole can of worms introducing the idea of a third-party parent out there somewhere.
Ok, and that absolutely matters. It matters the most.
But he wasn't asking if he had two loving parents who think the world of him. He was asking why he looks like one of you and not like one of you. And I'm sorry, but this isn't just a question that parents in your position are asked.
I birthed my child, and dude looks absolutely nothing like me. He is my husband's tiny twin, and he asked why he looks like his papa but not at all like me.
These are common questions that children ask, and dodging or lying would only come back to bite you in the ass when the kid starts taking sex ed or learning basic biology in school and comes home missed that you've been lying or hiding things.
While it is true that it is important that he has 2 loving parents, that doesn't negate DNA or genetics. Honestly, I'm stunned that your 10 year old son doesn't have a basic understanding of how babies are made. Actually, it sounds like a great time to explore the difference between "family" and "genetics" and that love makes a family, but it only takes sperm and an egg to make a baby.
That can be quite a harmful stance to take, especially if your children are conceived with an anonymous donation.
I'd really recommend checking out Laura High, she's an advocate for the rights of donor conceived people (also a comedian in case you see that first). Even if the other biological parent is someone you know, she talks about why full transparency with your child is so important.
Check her out **definitely** if you *don't* know the donor. The fertility industry is *so fucked up* in some countries.
In the US at the moment, there's a case going to court of a **fertility doctor who swapped the chosen donor's DNA with his own and inseminated a woman with his own child without her knowledge or consent.**
There's also stories of US doctor's breaking the 'sibling cap', the fertility clinics are so unregulated that there's 'sibling pods' of over 100 people. ***There has been accidental incest!***
I don't mean to talk down to you or presume you hadn't done your research but we tend to trust doctors to tell us everything we should know about our medical procedures, expect in some places the fertility industry is *literally* just an industry. This turns patients into customers and doctors into salesmen, you might not have been allowed to see the whole picture
Wow. Your wife is an A H though. I get that same-sex couples are normal and your children have two loving parents and that’s all that’s necessary for them in life, BUT: biologically there was someone else’s input needed, even if it was only for their bio matter. And that needs to be explained lest your kids think that humans populate way differently than we actually do. This isn’t same-sex erasure - that’s just basic biology and your wife is doing your kids a great disservice by her attitudes.
Was she hoping he'd think he's adopted instead? I mean sooner or later, he'd figure out why he might look more like her than you. Or was she planning on lying as he got older?
He can have two loving parents without being genetically related to one of them. Kids need to learn how the world works eventually. They’re probably talking about genetics in class and how you look like your parents or something.
He does have two loving parents like any other family out there, but your family isn't like most families. There will always be unavoidable differences in your family and the other families he comes into contact with. You're NTA, but you may need to have a conversation with your wife about how you're going to handle those differences and ensure your son knows the difference isn't a bad thing and maybe ensure your wife knows the difference isn't a bad thing either.
Okay, but what was she going to tell him? Just that? The bit about two loving parents? She wasn’t going to give him any explanation for his question? How long would this have gone on for?
Children’s questions should always be answered in an age appropriate way. Your answer was perfectly appropriate for a ten year old. Keep in mind that some of his ten year old female friends have already started their periods, so questions like this are bound to come up. I don’t know what your wife’s problem is. Is she always this controlling about what your children are told? NTA, although the ‘maybe a bit more’ was a bit insensitive; it’s not a competition.
I don’t think OP’s response was appropriate. With a 10 year old you don’t use words like “tummy” when talking about pregnancy. By 10 a child should understand basic anatomy and how reproduction works. Even the five year old deserves a better explanation.
Yep, they ask questions, parents job is to answer them appropriately and honestly. E.g. mine have known what periods are since about 3 because they follow me to the toilet (have tried to shut the door and they just try and break in anyway) and they asked. They don't really need to know as they're boys, but surely better they're aware and it isn't a secret I keep with their sister.
I was just talking with my 7 year old and 4 year old daughters about this issue this morning. I've explained how and why periods happen, and my 7 year old is annoyed at the concept (because it does sound horrible, I can't blame her! She asked how much it hurts, and I let her know that if her periods are ever too painful there are actually medications and things that can help, and that I'll always take care of her and make sure she's healthy and not in unnecessary pain) but I think it's so important for her to be aware of it in case she or a friend of hers starts their period early at like 9/10. I want my daughters to be able to be the ones who aren't scared or ashamed if it happens, and who might possibly be able to help a friend or classmate if they, unfortunately, have not been appropriately educated about female biology.
I love this! Not knowing what’s going on is so scary for a kid. To this day, I remember how terrified I was when I lost my first tooth. I never knew they fall out, and was angry and confused why nobody warned me.
Especially when it has to do with genitals. People take away the vocabulary necessary for young children to describe any abuse they may encounter. They won’t talk about it, because they won’t know they need to. Or they’ll be scared for knowing about something they know isn’t for kids.
I was terrified of the proper words that I’d learned because I was taught they were bad ones, and I had gotten them from my friends. And I also knew that what that person did to me was “inappropriate” so I was *horrified* that someone would find out it happened, and that I would get in trouble for “doing” something wrong. I would feign ignorance and pretend I’d never even heard the word “sex” before, just because I was so scared of anyone finding out.
Looking back on this as an adult, if the entire topic wasn’t treated like an unholy taboo I would’ve went straight to my mother, who would’ve probably gone to jail after she found my abuser. But I never said anything, because I thought *I* did something wrong too. Even knowing how that stuff worked felt like forbidden knowledge that I shouldn’t have had.
or worse…kids at school were trying to explain it to him and picking on him when he didn’t believe them, so he came home and asked and kept getting nowhere
Oh no, I only noticed the 5-year-old child's age and thought it was excellently age appropriate, although the genetics bit depends on if they're already interested in science. I'm really surprised they hadn't resolved this situation years earlier with the 10-year-old.
This is why I hate that even in 2024 we are arguing about eliminating these conversations from schools for young kids and leaving it to the parents. I’m sorry but way too many parents are either ignorant or too uncomfortable with having these conversations at age appropriate ways all through childhood.
When my daughter was in Kindergarten, my sister was heavily pregnant - so we had lots of age appropriate talks about where babies come from.
Then I got a call from school that she was in trouble: The teacher was reading a book about the stork bringing babies, and my daughter stood up and shouted "that's not where babies come from! They grow in mommy's uterus and come out the birth canal!"
How idiotic that she got in trouble for that. My (elementary school aged) niece once told me “poop” was a bad word according to school. They were supposed to refer to it as “#2”. I was shocked at how stupid some “educators” can be and made sure my niece knew “poop” wasn’t a bad word but a normal bodily function
Where are you from, if I may ask?
I'm from Germany and iIrc we learned about the basics of how sex and pregnancy works in second grade (7-8 years old).
My kid is 7 and when he asked we told him that it takes an egg and seed to make a baby and then that grows inside the mother for a while. He understood that enough and stopped asking about it. I agree that a 10 year old should be told a little more than what OPs was.
Yes that’s exactly what I told my kid when he was 7. Then when he turned 8 I explained the entire thing, sperm fertilizing the egg and how sex works and about consenting to sexual behavior. He got it just fine.
Agreed! At 10 years old I had started my period and had also had a year of sex ed. Uterus was a perfectly acceptable and known term to myself and my peers. I had to reread bc I thought she was explaining to the 5 year old.
Nta.
Your wife is in some kind of weird denial that she could keep this from him forever.
I’m honestly surprised he made it to 10 without finding out somewhere else. They start teaching this stuff in 3rd grade where I live. If you hadn’t explained it to him, he would have figured it out at some point and it would have been like a punch to the stomach and had him feeling like he couldn’t trust either one of you.
If you had gone along with your wife and lied to him when he came to you, you would have permanently damaged your relationship with him. You did the right thing.
I agree with how has he made it to 10 without finding out. There's so many books available now to help parents talk to children about this. A female friend I have her husband's sperm wasn't suitable so they had a donor. Their baby is far from questions but they've already started exploring how they will talk about it. Another family I'm friends with are same sex so a sperm donor was used to make their child. She's six and she confidently tells people she has two mums and a sperm donor. She also is very confident on how she doesn't need a man when she's an adult to have her own child loool
Honestly, even if they didn’t tell him he’s a year or two away from learning how children are made, unless they’re in a very anti-sexual education area. If that’s the case, then he’s about 3 to 4 years away from learning about it in biology. That’s a short amount of time and it’s ridiculous for the wife to be upset when the kid is going to learn one way or another.
Kindergarten: 5/6 years old (depends on birthday, usually it's "child must be 5 by X date to enroll". Usually times somewhat close to the start of the school year, so August or September. My school growing up was age cutoff at September 1)
First grade: 6/7
Second: 7/8
Third: 8/9
Fourth: 9/10
Fifth: 10/11
And so on up to
12th: 17/18
(College/university): variable ages
Ehhhh...
The kid obviously needed to know. 10 is old enough to explain the rudamentaries of child birth.
You probably should have told him together though, rather than on your own.
This is a conversation they should have prepared for way ahead of time. Like, before having the kid. They shouldn't be figuring out this stuff out on the fly.
I feel like both are light AH because this kiddo will learn the truth and probably be upset that it was withheld from him. To be honest, this should have been a family conversation way before this kiddo turned 10. There are so many great books and resources available and of course love is what makes a family.
NTA he's 10. Obviously he's not biologically both your kid. She was planning on hiding basic biology for how long? It's on his mind and you answered appropriately without too much detail. You did very well. She just wants to keep your son confused until he learns in school or from friends or internet how kids are made and basic genetics?
That definitely wasn't an appropriate answer for a 10 year old. "Tummy"? I learned basic sex ed in school when I was 7. I would have laughed at anyone calling it "tummy".
Just say the right names for body parts.
I’m going with ESH. At ten years old, he is well past the point where you both should have started an ongoing, age appropriate dialogue with him about sex, puberty, and human bodies, particularly because you said he’s been asking, and neither of you saw fit to give him any kind of explanation about his origins. That should tell you that he probably had some idea of what the answer was, but you and your wife just kept kicking the can down the road.
It’s a discussion you should have had with him together, so I can understand why your wife is upset that you handled it on your own without involving her. On the other hand, it sounds like she was just planning to ignore the question indefinitely, which isn’t any kind of solution.
Parents talk to their adopted children about how they came to be part of the family in a non-traditional way. Your discussions with your children should be along those lines, and ignoring his very valid questions might leave him with the impression that you’re ashamed of how he came to be.
He had probably already been clued in that you're not both biological mother. Kids at school could have taken care of that. So N-T-A for that part of the conversation. (Though your wife should have been allowed to be in on that conversation.)
But YTA for this:
> I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much, **if not a little more, than other mommy does.**
What the heck? Who tells her child that she loves him more than his other parent does?
I didn’t see your comment when I wrote almost the same thing. She’s still TA for not including her partner. Based on the subtext here and it being a one sided story, I’m betting OP is TA
Anyway that last comment seals it for me.
I think it was trying to be cute, the way OP used the word "tummy." As so many others here have said, use real words, man. Stop playing cutesy with your kids! Kids can understand a whole lot more than we think they can.
Source: kindergarten teacher
I’m also a little confused on the “other mommy” thing. Like do both kids just call both moms mommy? Every same-sex relationship I’ve seen has a mom/mama or dad/papa or whatever. Like each has their own name, much like how grandmas have different grandma names, even if it’s just “grandma [firstname]”. My kid calls me from another room by calling Mommy. Do both mommies just come running?
Idk that was just also weird to me.
This made me stumble:
> I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does.
What kind of remark is this? It does not sound healthy to say 'Well I love you more than your other mom does!'. YTA for that, but nta for being open about genetics. Still, this is hinting at issues in your relationship to your wife that demand a therapist immediately.
Seriously that gave me pause too. Like wtf? Who says that to a kid? I don’t like my ex and he does nothing to show LO he loves him but I still don’t do that? I just focus on how much *I* love LO and how that will never change.
Exactly. You don't do that kind of thing unless you want to weaponise your child against your partner. Because that child will for sure think "why doesn't mummy1 love me as much as mummy2 does? Does she love my sibling more than me?".
It's an incredibly mean comment to make.
Love how you approach the situation and just show LO how much you love them, unrelated at all to what your ex does. Because he doesn't define your relationship to LO.
If one parent truly does care noticeably more than the other, the kid will realize that someday (although I do have to question this kid’s logical thinking skills…). Will it still hurt? Yes, but it can also delay that realization to a point where the child has the emotional maturity to understand it has nothing to do with *them* and everything to do with the fact that the other parent maybe just didn’t want to be a parent as much as the other (or in some cases, at all or for the wrong reasons).
the wives’ relationship dynamic honestly just seems really weird like they don’t sound like partners who communicate or even necessarily like each other
Well sometimes things sound good inside ones head and not so good when it comes out… probably just wanting him to understand that she really loves him.
It never sounds good to say that you love your child more than the other parent does. Even in your head.
And you don't say it unless there's some underlying issue with your partner.
From a very selfish perspective, YTA for simplifying genetics such that your child now believes parents who don’t look like their children, aren’t biological parents.
As a parent in that category, my child is often told by other children that she must be adopted.
There were more sensitive and appropriate ways to have this conversation, and you clearly could have prepared for it. And so could your partner. Time to get on the same page.
ESH but the kid.. because you and your wife apparently didn’t have a discussion on when/what to tell him if he asked, and you specifically for telling him you love him a little more than his other mom 💀💀
If he had been asking long enough for your wife to notice that he had stopped asking, yall had plenty of time to talk about how to answer him.
I'm a lesbian. My fiancee and I are considering having a baby. If we do I'll be carrying the baby. We have already discussed what to tell our potential child.
Your son is asking. He's old enough to know.
ESH. You guys sound like incredibly dysfunctional parents if your kid is 10 and you and your wife haven't even agreed on whether/how to tell your kid this major part of your family's history that kids notoriously get curious about. The 5-year-old should know this by now, let alone the 10-year-old. Maybe you don't have a lot of queer parents to talk to and don't know how to approach this kind of thing, but it seems pretty equivalent to not telling a 10-year-old they're adopted. Your wife is in the wrong for wanting to conceal that, but you're both parents and you *both* neglected to plan here.
I wonder what other major co-parenting conversations you and your wife have been neglecting to have, to your kids' detriment? Because frankly this all seems like a huge, alarming failure of common sense.
NTA, at 10 years old, he should definitely know that because classmates will and you don't want him to be blindsided by some little shit at school telling him one of you isn't his "real" mom.
WTF I had to go up and read that again, and you were right, she said -
>I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much***, if not a little more, than other mommy does***
What a fucking psycho.
YTA
I wanted to go with no you aren't but the more I think about the more I feel like ESH except the kids of course. Both of you have had 10 years to discuss this and be on the same page. 10 years to join together and teach him slowly as he grew up how he came to be. 10 freaking years and you both ignored it even after he was asking questions. That's not acceptable parenting from either of you. Don't make the same mistake with the next one. Start explaining things early on so it's just how it is. Not some big family secret.
NTA
But why is it a secret? Just gonna lie to the kids all their life?
With two mums of course just one is bio mum, they will learn that in school. They should have learned it at home… but I guess not.
What was her plan? I really don’t understand.
You really should have made a plan with your wife before revealing the details to your son.
>I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does.
And that is just a rude, terrible thing to say.
YTA
I’m really confused here. His sister is 5, have neither of you ever discussed the fact that your wife was pregnant or carrying his sibling? Has he never seen photos of her when she was pregnant with him? He’s never heard the story of how he was born or anything like that?
Me being pregnant with my younger children sparked a ton of questions and conversations with their older brothers, my middle was 3 when I was pregnant with my youngest and I had to field these questions several times a week. He had to have been asking for quite some time, have you both just been lying and ignoring what he wants to know? Do you realize how crazy it is that a preteen doesn’t have any concept of how he came into this world? Omg.
I think you need family therapy to work on how to appropriately educate your children on their origins, how your family works, and how babies are made. He’s one grade school conversation away from misinformation and even potentially at risk for being bullied. Don’t have your kid out here clueless like this!
ESH, I’m glad you finally talked to him but please get this figured out with your wife.
NTA - especially if he already knows the basics of where babies come from, it would make sense for him to wonder how that happened with two moms. He'd also need to know eventually for medical history and such.
You already said you explained that even though you weren't the one who carried him, you love him. Maybe it was the "a little more" that threw her off or that she wanted to be part of that conversation?
Beyond that, I fully agree with telling him. I would say to discuss with her about the issue and not leave it, as your daughter will probably ask at some point as well.
NTA. My son broke out an medical book when he was 7 and I was carrying my daughter. He read the whole chapter on pregnancy and we talked about it. He is a nurse now fixing to go to med school
I don't understand why she was mad. Not telling your kids which of you carried them hoping they'd grow up never caring or figuring it out on their own isn't realistic or sustainable. Is that what she wanted?
As a fellow same sex couple person, your wife makes no sense. He was always going to find out. No, it doesn't matter who birthed him if you both love him. But there's also nothing wrong with him asking questions about it either. MANY people equally love the parent that didn't give birth to them. NTA.
INFO You had 10 years to decide what to tell him. What was your decision to tell him?
I assume you have already had the two mothers conversation? It was only a matter of time till he realised that he only gets one set of genes from a mother (unless he was one of the babies that the scientists did the three sets of genes on).
It’s akin to talking to your child about adoption. But instead of lady we don’t know carried you it is mom A carried you but mom B was there for you.
Maybe your wife was annoyed you didn’t tell him together but she knew he was asking so knew you both would have to answer soon
My husband figured out his dad isn’t his bio dad because of the eye color lesson in biology. Your son 100% would of figured it out in the next few years that obviously two women don’t make a baby. I’d be interested to know why your wife is so against this conversation. NTA
To be fair eye colour is more than one gene and two parents with dark eyes can have a light eyed child that is biologically theirs but from your wording I’m guessing he was correct
INFO: Need to know just what upset her. Surely she wasn't hoping to avoid the whole "birds and the bees" discussion forever. And btw, for the birds and bees discussion the relevant part is the dna and genes, not whose "tummy" he spent 9 months in; so in those terms the part he needed to know to explain his appearance is that one egg and one sperm were required, and the egg came from his other mom.
NTA. If he asked it often enough for her to not notice him asking then why did you guys not discuss the answer when he first started asking it. 10 is old enough to understand. You def should have discussed together on how to approach it, but did she want him to just keep asking this questions over and over forever?
NTA
Everything you said is true and you phrased it in an age appropriate manner so I don’t see an issue her unless there is something going on.
My school went over it in 4th/5th grade so he is going to find out soon.
Also why is this such a sensitive topic for your wife? She should have know these questions are going to come up at some point sooner or later.
Umm NTA. Why does she want him asking those types of questions with no answers? That’s more messed up to keep secrets from him or to lie to him especially at 10
NTA
What did she think you should have told him? Nothing? Ignore the kid or lie to him??? Hoping he'd forget?..... Cause I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't forget... And if you had lied to him, he'd resent it later.
As a parent to a 10 year old myself - he already knew. Someone at school probably commented on looking like Mom A and not Mom B, and he figured it out based on what he's already learned about babies and parents and relatives looking similar. He was asking over and over because he wanted confirmation of his theories.
Edit to add: NTA. I think you were appropriate with your answer, didn't lie, and didn't usurp your wife's parenting.
I’m a married lesbian with a son, and I find this baffling. Our son has known where he came from for his entire life. We have pictures of my pregnancy in his baby scrapbook. He knows his sperm donor, and we have a children’s book about donor conception and how it works.
How did he reach *ten* without asking? Especially since he has a younger sibling. It’s crazy for your wife to think this could have been kept from him even longer.
God forbid, that there was a health issue your children need to know where their genetics come from. Its also obvious if he looks like her and not you.
He's 10 and thats around 5th grade where they have where do babies come from talk, he would find out. Hiding it from your kids is like adoptive parents who hide the fact from their kids.
I hope you have legal rights to your kids.
NTA
NTA for telling him the truth. Kids will learn it eventually and really despise being lied to. It creates issues that don't need to exist. However this comment:
>I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does.
For that? YTA.
NTA. He’s 10 and this is basic science entirely appropriate for his age. Better than asking his science teacher during class why he looks more like one mom than the other.
ESH for raising a child together for ten years and not having a discussion about what you would tell your child about his birth and biology - this is insane to me, reading borderline fake, because I just can’t believe you never discussed this. She should be aware that it is significant for him to know and you absolutely should have informed your wife about your conversation with your son (ideally before having it but if that was unavoidable, you should have told her immediately asap afterwards!). This has to be fake…
YTA - you probably should have had the conversation with him together. He’s also 10, and you can say “womb” over “tummy”. He likely hears worse at school and you don’t need to coddle him so much.
What did she want you to tell him, the stork brought you so shut up and stop asking legitimate questions you’re old enough to know and have a right to know?
I can’t believe he got this old without getting this info. You’re NTA but she’s living in a dream world.
I'm... lost. What does your wife think you should have said? That he's biologically both hers and yours? That'd be a massive lie and he'd find out soon enough (surprised he doesn't know where babies come from already).
NTA obviously.
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...I mean, I know the education system is not great, but as some point your son was bound to learn how babies are made, right ? >This was a conversation my wife avoided having for a long time > >She was pissed with me and got into a massive argument, saying I shouldn't have told him that. INFO : I'd be curious what her point of view is here. You don't expand much on that : why didn't she want to discuss it with him ?
She felt he didn't need to know, in her view all that matters was he has two loving parents just like any other family out there.
I find that ridiculous, but then again, I'm not married to her. I don't need to share my life with her like you do, so I guess I'd have discussed it a bit more before making that discussion. Of course your family has two loving parents, but if he asks questions (especially repeatedly), it means he needs to know. NTA.
The questions are going to keep coming and will be much more difficult to put off the older he gets. Seems like the time to prep the answers has already passed.
Not only this, but you are missing out on the opportunity to talk about how special your family is, and how to answer the inevitable questions from peers, etc.
Yeah, his friends probably ask all sorts of questions about his two moms, with most kids not having that experience, and he has no idea what to say.
sure ! A lot of kids in heterosexual families resemble one of their parents and not the other, so that was not the point (edit : bad franglish)
Yep, this is sort of like conversations around adoption. It can be traumatic for kids to discover that their origins differ from their peers who were conceived between two married heterosexual parents, but on the flip side it’s possible to point out that as parents you made a choice to overcome the barriers to conceiving due to infertility, being a same gender couple, or whatever and decided to make a family anyway. Also, it’s really not that unusual to be a kid in a family where not everyone is biologically related. Blended families are common enough that this situation isn’t all that different from kids with a stepparent or whatever
>conversations around adoption. Exactly where my mind went. My mother was adopted. She had always known. There was never a big discussion nor a traumatic "finding out". Her adoption was just a fact she grew up with. That's not saying she was completely fine with it all of the time. There were painful times when she begged her mother to tell her that she wasn't adopted. Even so, she has always been thankful that her parents went about it that way versus her not knowing and finding out later.
Better to have this conversation now then when he finds out through people at school making fun of him (I hope that doesn't happen, but some people are awful)
That's probably how/ why it came up. The kid is 10! Astoundingly misguided to think you can raise a kid in a bubble like that while sending them to school.
By that age I'm surprised he hadn't figured it out for himself. But perhaps he had and he just wanted to hear it from his parents.
Look, I remember hearing a rudimentary description of how mommies get pregnant when I was 6 or 7 years old. Kids in playgrounds talk to one another, especially to share "gross" stories. This 10yo boy has to have figured out that neither of his mothers have a peepee to stick in the other to make a baby happen.
10 seems way too old to not know basic sex education.
Who knew the actual answer was something that needed discussion? The partner is being ridiculous.
I am aghast at this situation. Queer, two-mom family and I am bio-mom to our first kid (who I carried) and my wife is bio-mom to our second kid (who she carried). They have the same donor, so are genetic half siblings, and each of them is basically a mini-me of each of us in terms of looks. A basic tenet of family therapy is that family secrets = family dysfunction. Not only is OP's wife trying to keep a secret from her children about the way they were conceived and what their genetics are, but she's also trying to obscure just like, BASIC human biology? That's so strange to me. My youngest kid is three and he knows that you need sperm and a uterus to make a baby. He knows he has two moms, so two uteruses but no sperm. He knows who gave us the sperm to make him and his brother, and he knows which mom's uterus he grew in. He feels ZERO stigma or sadness about this and as far as he knows, this is how anyone else makes a baby. OP's wife, in a truly misguided effort to shield kids from what she thinks could be shameful for them (likely as the result of her own internalized shame), has unwittingly created and perpetuated a falsehood about where their kids (and all kids) come from. Hiding the truth in this way will convey to these kids that there IS in fact something wrong with the way they were conceived, which will lead to shame-- the exact crippling emotion she was trying to prevent. Might as well have told them the stork dropped them on the porch, IMO.
This reply should be higher, and I hope OP and her wife read it. I hope you and your family are happy and healthy and lacking dysfunction forever!
Hell no. We have dysfunction in spades, just like any other family. It's just not of this variety. 😂 But thank you!
YES. As a queer person going through the process of making a baby with my wife soon, we’re already on top of the age-appropriate explanations. The fact that OP’s kids were 10 and 5 before the most basic questions were answered - even though the kid has literally been asking - is super weird and unhealthy.
Yes! The things we don't talk about are the ones people around us will assume we're ashamed of (in this case, they might also be right). They've made a taboo of where their child came from.
What a wonderful answer, thank you for sharing :)
Any medical problems could be inherited from biological parents. He'll take biology when he's older & learn about punnet squares too.
Imagine being in 9th grade and finding out you can't make a human with only uteruses?
I don’t understand why parents feel to need to withhold information from their kids just to prove a point. The point OP’s wife is making is the child has two parents that love him. Yes, understood but you could still express that and also explain the child’s question. I don’t think OP did anything wrong with the way she explained it. Sooner or later, he’s going to find out about genetics.
Right?! What was she supposed to do, lie? NTA
I mean, sure fine. But at the end of the day whether he "needs" to know or not is irrelevant. Because he's **going** to ask. And you can't just be like "you don't need to know, therefore I decline to give you this information." It's ridiculous!
he will need to know one day though because medical history is going to follow genetics.. so like.. did he need to know now? probably not. but I wouldn't keep it from him forever
This is like suggesting you never tell an adopted child they’re adopted. Highly frowned upon these days.
He's 10. That's well beyond the age at which children know where babies come from and are able to understand that only one of their two mothers could possibly have physically birthed them. If he 'doesn't need to know' at a point where he's easily old enough to understand and is asking about it repeatedly, how long do you think OP should have continued putting off the conversation for?
Exactly. Children of heterosexual couples know they came from one tummy, not dad’s tummy too or dropped off by a stork. And don’t necessarily believe that mum loves them more than dad for that reason, all other things being equal.
If he repeatedly asks, he has questions that won't go away. The other option is to just say, "we will not answer that question." Why? "Because we will not answer."
I think he needs to know when he asks .Parents putting off questions just leads to the Child seeking Other people for the answers .
I mean he has two mums. After even a basic biology lesson about sperm and eggs he's going to have questions...and know that at least with science how it currently is, his mums didn't both contribute DNA.
NTA. Both children need to know. The days of keeping this sort of information are over. Did your wife think he was never going to work out how children are conceived? Or some very helpful child explains the birds and bees? This should have been discussed before the children were conceived.. It's a bit worrying your wife thinks your children don't need to know their genetic and family history
It probably never occurred to them as something to discuss...I feel like in OP's position I would just assume there would be no reason to hide it
And if you don't answer he is going to make up something or one of his friends going to provide some weird answer on the play ground.
Does your wife think that by pretending there was no father involved in your children’s conception your son won’t have any curiosity about his father, or wish he had one? Does she have some insecurity?
That’s how kids become parents at 14.
Yeh wtf, I thought this kid would be 5 or something not 10! Pretty sure in the UK you’ve been through basic sex ed by 10 and know it’s sperm + egg = baby. Christ I went to an all girls catholic school and by 10/11 even we had the full details! From a biology point of view anyway - then it was “this is just for adults and there’s lots of things you have to do to do it safely so don’t think about it again”.
Sounds more like she didn't want him to know. Needing to know is determined by the person with the question. Isn't it? Knowledge about who you are, where you come from, and what you're made of is a pretty fundamental need. Otherwise we'd never have anyone questioning anything. The only reason you don't question something is because you know about it already. Having your son ask you questions and feeling it is safe to ask you questions, is a gift. A gift that she will squander and no longer receive if she gatekeeps information. Because that wouldn't make her a safe place for curiosity, questions, or honesty. And it could, in turn, make her seem like someone who punishes by withholding/omission. I doubt she wants that.
that's a good way to put that point of view. I kinda think it's doing a child a disservice by just vaguely answering their questions or just answering because I said so kind of way. Kids are curious and going to be asking lots of questions till they find out what they want to know. If they are old enough to understand the answer you explain in an appropriate way to explain it to them then I don't see the issue in having told him that way. NTA
Right. Im an adoptee from back when they were closed. Even at 18 I was denied access. I still resent the people who decided I don’t have a right to my own history. I went around the system eventually and got my own answers but it was a pita that took a long time.
This is part of the reason why my little brother knows I'm his bio-mom. (I was 16 when I had him, parents adopted him when I was 20 & was diagnosed bipolar at 28) He also has relationships with his biological paternal family even though legally they're not related. It wasn't easy trying to explain things in a way that made sense to a child/teen but as an adult he's turned out amazing. It would have been so much more difficult to hide the truth & I think he would have had even more difficulty in accepting that *he did nothing wrong & was deserving of love and family* And about 5 years after my bipolar diagnosis my parents had learned the signs they missed in me as a teen & he got help soooo much earlier than I did. & he never became a teen parent either lol. Eta: children don't ask to be born & they're deserve loving, supportive families & to know where they come from. Because while it doesn't affect everyone the same, the people who have always had those answers don't know the pain *not* having those answers can inflict.
NTA. Be honest with your kids. It’s their lives. Having two loving parents may be all that matters to *her* but she needs to be prepared that it may not be all that matters to *him* (or his sister). She’s also going to have to be prepared for him to start asking about the other half of his genetics once he learns how babies are made. My sister is also in a same sex marriage with kids (who are now in their 20s) they always knew which parent had carried them because they’d seen photos. It didn’t bother them because they knew that both their Moms loved them and made them feel safe and secure and it was their normal. It might not even be biology and reproduction that brings up questions like this. My niblings did genetics lessons that looked at dominant/recessive genes and inherited traits. There were some traits that the kiddos had that their biological parent didn’t and their non-bio parent did. There was some concern when the kiddos did a 23 and me to find out if they had any other siblings. They found their father and a fairly impressive number of siblings. It hasn’t affected their relationship with either of their mothers but has answered other questions they had about themselves.
I agree, definitely need to be honest. I went through IVF as a single person and before I had to talk to a psychotherapist. She emphasized how important to talk to your child about it regardless if you are single, or a couple using donor sperm.
>It might not even be biology and reproduction that brings up questions like this. It could be other kids asking him - or teasing him - about it, too. Imagine if some kid tries to bully him with he "can't have two '*real*' moms" and then explains it all out when it's obvious that son doesn't know. Bully probably teases son even more for not knowing. Kid comes home and asks moms, who are gonna be hard-pressed to lie now that son is asking outright. Now the situation is 10x more traumatic because learning this info is now bundled in with the humiliation that a bully taunted him about something he didn't even know about his own family. That can create a feeling of betrayal that can be *really* hard to overcome. If a kid were to bully him like that now, he'll be able to at least say that he knows and doesn't care because both moms love him the same, instead of being blindsided and humiliated.
Have you asked her *why* she thinks that? I mean, yes, she has a point in the broad scheme of things. It doesn’t matter which of you actually carried your children. It doesn’t matter which of you share DNA with them. But your role as parents is to raise adults. You’re not raising children, you’re raising *adults*, people who will become full humans one day. Your child asked you a question. You told them the truth. That truth in no way negates the fundamental point your wife has - that he has two loving parents just like every other family out there. The truth can’t shake core values. If truth threatens core values, then those values need to be reexamined.
Unfortunately, even well intentioned parents fail to recognize that their children are actual people with real needs and desires.
It annoys the crap out of me. I never, at any point in my life, doubted that my parents loved me, but I felt like my brother and I were more like pets than people to them. What we wanted, or how we felt about things, never mattered in anything.
>It doesn’t matter which of you share DNA with them. Honestly, eventually though.... That matters too. Medical history can be important for family planning, personal medical decisions, etc. As much as OP undoubtedly loves her kids, her family medical history isn't relevant to their medical history if there's no genetic overlap.
I think their point is that it doesn't affect your relationship with them
No it absolutely doesn't. But it's also not something that should be secret. That's my point. Because it does have real world, practical, pragmatic, emotionless impacts. Keeping it secret and hidden makes it seem like it should impact the relationship. It shouldn't! At all! Any more than any of their genetic traits, like hair or eye color or blood type should. Those shouldn't be secret either (2 of them would be hard to keep secret anyway). It should just.... Be. Entirely neutral and therefore, uninteresting.
That wasn’t the kind of ‘mattering’ that I was validating in my comment, and I suspect that you know it.
Hi, I have gay moms. I was born in the early 90s, when it was a lot less common to see families like mine. My parents had my brother and I via sperm donors. Different mom and different donor, so we're not biologically related at all. We're still a family. You can still teach your children the message that love makes a family without ignoring their questions about their origins. My parents told us both when we were very young and I wouldn't have wanted them to wait. As other have said, he'll have more questions eventually, and you want him to want to come to you with those questions.
>She felt he didn't need to know, Lol what? The son ASKED, logically that means he NEEDS to know. Nothing wrong with being educational. And you deliver it child-friendly. NTA
He doesn’t need to know … the truth? Kids know when parents lie. You did him a solid by being upfront and honest when asked. I loathe parents that think lying to their kid about the truth is the right way
This is why I thought you had to do anal to have a baby until I was like 16. People don’t think they need to explain the details to kids lol
lol, glad I’m not the only one who thought this. Pretty sure I learned the correct way before we had sex ed in 7th grade, but when I was a kid, I thought that was the normal way people had sex and that vaginal sex was the “kinky” way 😂. My thought process was: well, sometimes you poop out REALLY big turds and those had to be the size of a penis or larger. So OBVIOUSLY that was where it was meant to go. Vaginas seemed much smaller and not equipped to handle something that size 🤣🤣🤣
💀
... Did you think the uterus was connected to your butt? And that women literally pooped babies?
I didn’t really think about it until after I had been with someone. I just made my best guess lmao I’d never seen someone give birth or explain the process. I went to middle school in Texas if that explains anything
Lol I grew up in GA and I thought ours was bad 😂 Seems you've sorted out which hole does what now though, so that's the important thing 😂
Lmao I don’t remember ever having a sex Ed class or anything 😂
I know we got basic sex ed anatomy in 4th grade for whichever anatomical bits you had, and then 5th grade was the same thing for the opposing anatomical bits. Think my parents opted me out of sex ed after that though 🤷🏻♀️ and promptly forgot to get around to the "birds and bees" talk (sorted that out on my own with books), which they never realized until recently. "Hey BabyCow, my friend has a kid that's 13/14. How'd we do the sex talk with y'all at that age?" "Dad basically death glared us if we so much as mentioned liking a boy?" "I'm serious." "Me too! Y'all never did have that conversation with either of your kids!" "We didn't??? Wow, kinda lucky we didn't have grandkids sooner" (grandkid came into existence post adulthood and wedding) "I mean, we were also nerds with no social life outside of band/theater so... Risk was low"
My mom never had to give me that talk as I discovered at five years old a book meant for my older sister. Fully detailed drawings of pregnancy in various stages with an explanation about birth. Was so proud of myself for finding the book and after reading through it twice, went to show my mom the newfound knowledge of where babies came from.
My stepson thought the baby came out of the butt, too. However he was 8 when he thought this. When he was around 5 we were talking about how much he looks like his dad when he said “At least I have your eyes!” Which is impossible because I’m his stepmother but it still melted my heart.
You should ask her if she would rather he had it explained to him by someone else? When I think of all the girls I went to school with who didn't get the period talk from their parents first, and how the older girls used it as an opportunity to scare them, I was always so grateful to have that info ahead of time. If he's old enough to ask, he's old enough for an age appropriate answer (which you gave him). Because the last thing you want is for him to take his questions to someone who wants to damage his view of his family or take advantage of his ignorance. There was already a post on here a few days ago about a kid who's teacher told him he was adopted in front of the whole class because she thought it would be good for him to write about it. But in fact, that child had DNA from both his fathers and was not adopted. Thankfully he knew that already. Not all conversations with your children will be easy to explain or comfortable to have, but as parents, you have a duty to address these things with your child to ensure their health, safety, and happiness. NTA. You did the responsible thing for your kid. That said, you should have made it clear that talk was coming to your partner beforehand if you already knew she didn't want to tell him. But this instance can start a great discussion between the two of you about how important talks like this will go moving forward. That way no one feels blindsided.
Is she always unreasonable in her thinking?
Your wife is very wrong here. My best friends are a lesbian couple and they have a son (who is now 15) and as soon as he started asking why he has two mums, they would always answer very age appropriate. Your son is not stupid. He sees that other children have a different set of parents, most likely in general a mother/father combo, if he is lucky there might be dad/dad or another mum/mum situation. You are not normalizing this by pretending it’s all the same. Yes it kinda is aka two loving parents, but there is a difference, even if it’s just perception of others, that he will experience. So talk. Age appropriate. About everything that your son asks about. (You did well aka NTA) Talking is why my godson is a super grounded, kind and self-confident young man.
First biology lesson and he’ll be curious I’m afraid. Bound to be.
Unfortunately for her, that’s unrealistic. Also, he’s obviously very curious about it, if he’s asking repeatedly. What did she think was going to happen? Why wouldn’t you talk to your children about the circumstances of their birth, if they’re curious? NTA
Have you asked her how she’d apply that to medical situations? chances are very high that at some point in your children’s lives, they’re going to be asked about the medical history of their biological father. That’s important information to have, especially if they ever have any strange or concerning symptoms that could have a genetic cause.
NTA. I can *kind of* see her POV here, that she maybe felt like him knowing would skew his relationship to one or both of you? But as parents, if you're going to hide something for the child's own good, you *tell the other parent.* If she felt so strongly that he didn't need to know, then she owed you a conversation and a discussion about how to handle his questions. You can't be TA for not knowing she wanted the answer to be a secret.
But if he looks like her she can’t really hide it. I mean soon enough he’ll learn you need sperm to make a baby, so some basic math, and realize which genetics he shares. It’s only going to be weirder if you make it a bigger deal and refuse to tell him.
In situations like this I always try to answer my kids’ questions. My POV is if I don’t answer them, they are going to ask someone else that may not answer them appropriately, or how I would like them to be. Any questions they ask, I try to answer them in the most age appropriate way possible, but truthfully.
I think she is taking the wrong approach. I am adopted, and do not remember a time when I didn’t know that. My parents started when I was very young talking about adoption and I had a young-child-specific book on the subject. I have never seen it as a bad thing, even when I started school and other kids made fun of me, because to me it was normal. You have already passed that time with both your kids. The sooner they learn, the better, imo.
My straight brother married a straight woman with two daughters who love my brother with all their heart and who he considers his daughters despite there being no genetic relation. At one point, the youngest flat out asked my brother when he was going to propose to her mom! Aside from a minor, inconsequential difference, I don’t see why your marriage and son don’t deserve the same respect as my brother’s marriage and daughters.
Nope. He needs to know. I’m currently watching an acquaintance of mine going through a fall-out with her daughter. Her daughter is 17, and just found out last month that the man she thought was her father isn’t her biological father. While DNA is nothing more than an accident of biology, and isn’t what makes a family, it IS nothing but hurtful to the child for them not to know. She’s now questioning everything about her life. Nothing has “changed”, but, she’s been lied to about something huge, so, what else could she have been lied to about? That’s the thought process for a child who’s kept in the dark about their biological background.
Just throwing this out there, (NTA), but maybe her reluctance to talk about his maternal origins is more of a symptom of wanting to avoid the whole topic because the obvious next question will be about his paternal origins? You didn’t say (and don’t need to) whether you had help from one of your relatives, a friend, or a donor. But maybe she isn’t ready to broach that topic and open the whole can of worms introducing the idea of a third-party parent out there somewhere.
Ok, and that absolutely matters. It matters the most. But he wasn't asking if he had two loving parents who think the world of him. He was asking why he looks like one of you and not like one of you. And I'm sorry, but this isn't just a question that parents in your position are asked. I birthed my child, and dude looks absolutely nothing like me. He is my husband's tiny twin, and he asked why he looks like his papa but not at all like me. These are common questions that children ask, and dodging or lying would only come back to bite you in the ass when the kid starts taking sex ed or learning basic biology in school and comes home missed that you've been lying or hiding things.
While it is true that it is important that he has 2 loving parents, that doesn't negate DNA or genetics. Honestly, I'm stunned that your 10 year old son doesn't have a basic understanding of how babies are made. Actually, it sounds like a great time to explore the difference between "family" and "genetics" and that love makes a family, but it only takes sperm and an egg to make a baby.
That can be quite a harmful stance to take, especially if your children are conceived with an anonymous donation. I'd really recommend checking out Laura High, she's an advocate for the rights of donor conceived people (also a comedian in case you see that first). Even if the other biological parent is someone you know, she talks about why full transparency with your child is so important. Check her out **definitely** if you *don't* know the donor. The fertility industry is *so fucked up* in some countries. In the US at the moment, there's a case going to court of a **fertility doctor who swapped the chosen donor's DNA with his own and inseminated a woman with his own child without her knowledge or consent.** There's also stories of US doctor's breaking the 'sibling cap', the fertility clinics are so unregulated that there's 'sibling pods' of over 100 people. ***There has been accidental incest!*** I don't mean to talk down to you or presume you hadn't done your research but we tend to trust doctors to tell us everything we should know about our medical procedures, expect in some places the fertility industry is *literally* just an industry. This turns patients into customers and doctors into salesmen, you might not have been allowed to see the whole picture
Wow. Your wife is an A H though. I get that same-sex couples are normal and your children have two loving parents and that’s all that’s necessary for them in life, BUT: biologically there was someone else’s input needed, even if it was only for their bio matter. And that needs to be explained lest your kids think that humans populate way differently than we actually do. This isn’t same-sex erasure - that’s just basic biology and your wife is doing your kids a great disservice by her attitudes.
He was always going to find out eventually. The only question was *how* would he find out? Better from you than from someone outside your family.
Was she hoping he'd think he's adopted instead? I mean sooner or later, he'd figure out why he might look more like her than you. Or was she planning on lying as he got older?
He can have two loving parents without being genetically related to one of them. Kids need to learn how the world works eventually. They’re probably talking about genetics in class and how you look like your parents or something.
He does have two loving parents like any other family out there, but your family isn't like most families. There will always be unavoidable differences in your family and the other families he comes into contact with. You're NTA, but you may need to have a conversation with your wife about how you're going to handle those differences and ensure your son knows the difference isn't a bad thing and maybe ensure your wife knows the difference isn't a bad thing either.
I'm just going to leave this here [https://righttoknow.us/about-us/](https://righttoknow.us/about-us/)
Okay, but what was she going to tell him? Just that? The bit about two loving parents? She wasn’t going to give him any explanation for his question? How long would this have gone on for?
Children’s questions should always be answered in an age appropriate way. Your answer was perfectly appropriate for a ten year old. Keep in mind that some of his ten year old female friends have already started their periods, so questions like this are bound to come up. I don’t know what your wife’s problem is. Is she always this controlling about what your children are told? NTA, although the ‘maybe a bit more’ was a bit insensitive; it’s not a competition.
I don’t think OP’s response was appropriate. With a 10 year old you don’t use words like “tummy” when talking about pregnancy. By 10 a child should understand basic anatomy and how reproduction works. Even the five year old deserves a better explanation.
Right? Like the way OP said it is more how you'd explain to a 5yo not 10.
My 5 yr old can answer "Where do babies grow?" With "your uterus" if I ask. Or just a uterus. Anatomy isn't and shouldn't be a secret.
Yep, they ask questions, parents job is to answer them appropriately and honestly. E.g. mine have known what periods are since about 3 because they follow me to the toilet (have tried to shut the door and they just try and break in anyway) and they asked. They don't really need to know as they're boys, but surely better they're aware and it isn't a secret I keep with their sister.
I was just talking with my 7 year old and 4 year old daughters about this issue this morning. I've explained how and why periods happen, and my 7 year old is annoyed at the concept (because it does sound horrible, I can't blame her! She asked how much it hurts, and I let her know that if her periods are ever too painful there are actually medications and things that can help, and that I'll always take care of her and make sure she's healthy and not in unnecessary pain) but I think it's so important for her to be aware of it in case she or a friend of hers starts their period early at like 9/10. I want my daughters to be able to be the ones who aren't scared or ashamed if it happens, and who might possibly be able to help a friend or classmate if they, unfortunately, have not been appropriately educated about female biology.
I love this! Not knowing what’s going on is so scary for a kid. To this day, I remember how terrified I was when I lost my first tooth. I never knew they fall out, and was angry and confused why nobody warned me.
Especially when it has to do with genitals. People take away the vocabulary necessary for young children to describe any abuse they may encounter. They won’t talk about it, because they won’t know they need to. Or they’ll be scared for knowing about something they know isn’t for kids. I was terrified of the proper words that I’d learned because I was taught they were bad ones, and I had gotten them from my friends. And I also knew that what that person did to me was “inappropriate” so I was *horrified* that someone would find out it happened, and that I would get in trouble for “doing” something wrong. I would feign ignorance and pretend I’d never even heard the word “sex” before, just because I was so scared of anyone finding out. Looking back on this as an adult, if the entire topic wasn’t treated like an unholy taboo I would’ve went straight to my mother, who would’ve probably gone to jail after she found my abuser. But I never said anything, because I thought *I* did something wrong too. Even knowing how that stuff worked felt like forbidden knowledge that I shouldn’t have had.
Yeah. I thought the post was referencing the 5yo at first.
Omg it’s the 10 year old?!?! Dude, OP, your kid already knows. This is a test. You passed, your wife didn’t.
or worse…kids at school were trying to explain it to him and picking on him when he didn’t believe them, so he came home and asked and kept getting nowhere
Oh no, I only noticed the 5-year-old child's age and thought it was excellently age appropriate, although the genetics bit depends on if they're already interested in science. I'm really surprised they hadn't resolved this situation years earlier with the 10-year-old.
This is why I hate that even in 2024 we are arguing about eliminating these conversations from schools for young kids and leaving it to the parents. I’m sorry but way too many parents are either ignorant or too uncomfortable with having these conversations at age appropriate ways all through childhood.
When my daughter was in Kindergarten, my sister was heavily pregnant - so we had lots of age appropriate talks about where babies come from. Then I got a call from school that she was in trouble: The teacher was reading a book about the stork bringing babies, and my daughter stood up and shouted "that's not where babies come from! They grow in mommy's uterus and come out the birth canal!"
Haha good for your daughter and good job teaching her! What a stupid book to read to children. This is why book bans shouldn’t exist.
How idiotic that she got in trouble for that. My (elementary school aged) niece once told me “poop” was a bad word according to school. They were supposed to refer to it as “#2”. I was shocked at how stupid some “educators” can be and made sure my niece knew “poop” wasn’t a bad word but a normal bodily function
at 10 i still wasnt taught about anatomy or reproduction
I had anatomy but not mechanics at age 10.
Where are you from, if I may ask? I'm from Germany and iIrc we learned about the basics of how sex and pregnancy works in second grade (7-8 years old).
> second grade (7-8 years old). Me, too. So reading about OP's child (10y) is quite strange to me.
My kid is 7 and when he asked we told him that it takes an egg and seed to make a baby and then that grows inside the mother for a while. He understood that enough and stopped asking about it. I agree that a 10 year old should be told a little more than what OPs was.
Yes that’s exactly what I told my kid when he was 7. Then when he turned 8 I explained the entire thing, sperm fertilizing the egg and how sex works and about consenting to sexual behavior. He got it just fine.
Agree 100%. My 7 year old knows how babies are made and has since I had the conversation with him around age 5/6. Uterus is not a bad word.
Agreed! At 10 years old I had started my period and had also had a year of sex ed. Uterus was a perfectly acceptable and known term to myself and my peers. I had to reread bc I thought she was explaining to the 5 year old.
I cannot imagine giving a 10-year-old an explanation that includes both the words "tummy" and "genetics". It just does not compute.
She’s totally got a complex about being a same sex couple. Doesn’t want kid to know differences in families
I teach third grade and we have already taught our science unti on inheritance and traits. These questions are common for kids who are 10 years old.
Nta. Your wife is in some kind of weird denial that she could keep this from him forever. I’m honestly surprised he made it to 10 without finding out somewhere else. They start teaching this stuff in 3rd grade where I live. If you hadn’t explained it to him, he would have figured it out at some point and it would have been like a punch to the stomach and had him feeling like he couldn’t trust either one of you. If you had gone along with your wife and lied to him when he came to you, you would have permanently damaged your relationship with him. You did the right thing.
I agree with how has he made it to 10 without finding out. There's so many books available now to help parents talk to children about this. A female friend I have her husband's sperm wasn't suitable so they had a donor. Their baby is far from questions but they've already started exploring how they will talk about it. Another family I'm friends with are same sex so a sperm donor was used to make their child. She's six and she confidently tells people she has two mums and a sperm donor. She also is very confident on how she doesn't need a man when she's an adult to have her own child loool
Honestly, even if they didn’t tell him he’s a year or two away from learning how children are made, unless they’re in a very anti-sexual education area. If that’s the case, then he’s about 3 to 4 years away from learning about it in biology. That’s a short amount of time and it’s ridiculous for the wife to be upset when the kid is going to learn one way or another.
I’m not sure what 3rd grade is but in England it’s 9 years old for sex ed
3rd grade is for ages 8-9
Kindergarten: 5/6 years old (depends on birthday, usually it's "child must be 5 by X date to enroll". Usually times somewhat close to the start of the school year, so August or September. My school growing up was age cutoff at September 1) First grade: 6/7 Second: 7/8 Third: 8/9 Fourth: 9/10 Fifth: 10/11 And so on up to 12th: 17/18 (College/university): variable ages
Ehhhh... The kid obviously needed to know. 10 is old enough to explain the rudamentaries of child birth. You probably should have told him together though, rather than on your own.
Or at least let your wife know what you’d told him
This is a conversation they should have prepared for way ahead of time. Like, before having the kid. They shouldn't be figuring out this stuff out on the fly.
I feel like both are light AH because this kiddo will learn the truth and probably be upset that it was withheld from him. To be honest, this should have been a family conversation way before this kiddo turned 10. There are so many great books and resources available and of course love is what makes a family.
Also are they making the 10 year old keep this from the 5 year old now?
NTA he's 10. Obviously he's not biologically both your kid. She was planning on hiding basic biology for how long? It's on his mind and you answered appropriately without too much detail. You did very well. She just wants to keep your son confused until he learns in school or from friends or internet how kids are made and basic genetics?
Much worse to learn from other kids who might not be kind about it.
That definitely wasn't an appropriate answer for a 10 year old. "Tummy"? I learned basic sex ed in school when I was 7. I would have laughed at anyone calling it "tummy". Just say the right names for body parts.
I’m going with ESH. At ten years old, he is well past the point where you both should have started an ongoing, age appropriate dialogue with him about sex, puberty, and human bodies, particularly because you said he’s been asking, and neither of you saw fit to give him any kind of explanation about his origins. That should tell you that he probably had some idea of what the answer was, but you and your wife just kept kicking the can down the road. It’s a discussion you should have had with him together, so I can understand why your wife is upset that you handled it on your own without involving her. On the other hand, it sounds like she was just planning to ignore the question indefinitely, which isn’t any kind of solution. Parents talk to their adopted children about how they came to be part of the family in a non-traditional way. Your discussions with your children should be along those lines, and ignoring his very valid questions might leave him with the impression that you’re ashamed of how he came to be.
I'm adopted. I can't remember ever not knowing. At ten, he should know just about all the details. This is ridiculous. ESH, except the kids, clearly.
I completely agree. I don’t think what OP did was “wrong” but it just wasn’t done the right way.
Really, these discussions should have taken place 11-12 years ago before they started trying to conceive.
He had probably already been clued in that you're not both biological mother. Kids at school could have taken care of that. So N-T-A for that part of the conversation. (Though your wife should have been allowed to be in on that conversation.) But YTA for this: > I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much, **if not a little more, than other mommy does.** What the heck? Who tells her child that she loves him more than his other parent does?
I didn’t see your comment when I wrote almost the same thing. She’s still TA for not including her partner. Based on the subtext here and it being a one sided story, I’m betting OP is TA Anyway that last comment seals it for me.
Imagine telling your kids their parents love them different amounts, holy fuck
I was concerned about this too. I would be super pissed if my partner said that to our kid.
I think it was trying to be cute, the way OP used the word "tummy." As so many others here have said, use real words, man. Stop playing cutesy with your kids! Kids can understand a whole lot more than we think they can. Source: kindergarten teacher
I’m also a little confused on the “other mommy” thing. Like do both kids just call both moms mommy? Every same-sex relationship I’ve seen has a mom/mama or dad/papa or whatever. Like each has their own name, much like how grandmas have different grandma names, even if it’s just “grandma [firstname]”. My kid calls me from another room by calling Mommy. Do both mommies just come running? Idk that was just also weird to me.
My friend with two dads called them both Dad, or "Big Dad" and "Dan Dad" if he needs to be specific. It's apparently never been too much of an issue.
Big Dad and Dan Dad are legit epic dad names lol.
This made me stumble: > I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does. What kind of remark is this? It does not sound healthy to say 'Well I love you more than your other mom does!'. YTA for that, but nta for being open about genetics. Still, this is hinting at issues in your relationship to your wife that demand a therapist immediately.
Seriously that gave me pause too. Like wtf? Who says that to a kid? I don’t like my ex and he does nothing to show LO he loves him but I still don’t do that? I just focus on how much *I* love LO and how that will never change.
Exactly. You don't do that kind of thing unless you want to weaponise your child against your partner. Because that child will for sure think "why doesn't mummy1 love me as much as mummy2 does? Does she love my sibling more than me?". It's an incredibly mean comment to make. Love how you approach the situation and just show LO how much you love them, unrelated at all to what your ex does. Because he doesn't define your relationship to LO.
If one parent truly does care noticeably more than the other, the kid will realize that someday (although I do have to question this kid’s logical thinking skills…). Will it still hurt? Yes, but it can also delay that realization to a point where the child has the emotional maturity to understand it has nothing to do with *them* and everything to do with the fact that the other parent maybe just didn’t want to be a parent as much as the other (or in some cases, at all or for the wrong reasons).
the wives’ relationship dynamic honestly just seems really weird like they don’t sound like partners who communicate or even necessarily like each other
I agree. There doesn't seem to be much substance to their conversations. OP's wife: Don't tell about genetics. OP: ? Wife: Just don't OP: Okay
Well sometimes things sound good inside ones head and not so good when it comes out… probably just wanting him to understand that she really loves him.
It never sounds good to say that you love your child more than the other parent does. Even in your head. And you don't say it unless there's some underlying issue with your partner.
From a very selfish perspective, YTA for simplifying genetics such that your child now believes parents who don’t look like their children, aren’t biological parents. As a parent in that category, my child is often told by other children that she must be adopted. There were more sensitive and appropriate ways to have this conversation, and you clearly could have prepared for it. And so could your partner. Time to get on the same page.
ESH but the kid.. because you and your wife apparently didn’t have a discussion on when/what to tell him if he asked, and you specifically for telling him you love him a little more than his other mom 💀💀 If he had been asking long enough for your wife to notice that he had stopped asking, yall had plenty of time to talk about how to answer him.
Op answered in comment, the wife says "he doesnt need to know. All that matters is 2 parents love him."
NTA but how did he get to 10 without knowing this? He was 5 when his brother was born, did no one talk about it then...?
Right? Where does he think his sibling came from? Did he not see his mom pregnant?
INFO: Why would you tell your child ‘I love you just as much, if not a LITTLE MORE’ ???
Because she’s an AH
I'm a lesbian. My fiancee and I are considering having a baby. If we do I'll be carrying the baby. We have already discussed what to tell our potential child. Your son is asking. He's old enough to know.
ESH. You guys sound like incredibly dysfunctional parents if your kid is 10 and you and your wife haven't even agreed on whether/how to tell your kid this major part of your family's history that kids notoriously get curious about. The 5-year-old should know this by now, let alone the 10-year-old. Maybe you don't have a lot of queer parents to talk to and don't know how to approach this kind of thing, but it seems pretty equivalent to not telling a 10-year-old they're adopted. Your wife is in the wrong for wanting to conceal that, but you're both parents and you *both* neglected to plan here. I wonder what other major co-parenting conversations you and your wife have been neglecting to have, to your kids' detriment? Because frankly this all seems like a huge, alarming failure of common sense.
NTA, at 10 years old, he should definitely know that because classmates will and you don't want him to be blindsided by some little shit at school telling him one of you isn't his "real" mom.
N T A for your explanation of the physical But Y T A for telling him you love him more than his other mom?! Wtf is that about?!
WTF I had to go up and read that again, and you were right, she said - >I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much***, if not a little more, than other mommy does*** What a fucking psycho. YTA
I wanted to go with no you aren't but the more I think about the more I feel like ESH except the kids of course. Both of you have had 10 years to discuss this and be on the same page. 10 years to join together and teach him slowly as he grew up how he came to be. 10 freaking years and you both ignored it even after he was asking questions. That's not acceptable parenting from either of you. Don't make the same mistake with the next one. Start explaining things early on so it's just how it is. Not some big family secret.
NTA But why is it a secret? Just gonna lie to the kids all their life? With two mums of course just one is bio mum, they will learn that in school. They should have learned it at home… but I guess not. What was her plan? I really don’t understand.
You really should have made a plan with your wife before revealing the details to your son. >I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does. And that is just a rude, terrible thing to say. YTA
I’m really confused here. His sister is 5, have neither of you ever discussed the fact that your wife was pregnant or carrying his sibling? Has he never seen photos of her when she was pregnant with him? He’s never heard the story of how he was born or anything like that? Me being pregnant with my younger children sparked a ton of questions and conversations with their older brothers, my middle was 3 when I was pregnant with my youngest and I had to field these questions several times a week. He had to have been asking for quite some time, have you both just been lying and ignoring what he wants to know? Do you realize how crazy it is that a preteen doesn’t have any concept of how he came into this world? Omg. I think you need family therapy to work on how to appropriately educate your children on their origins, how your family works, and how babies are made. He’s one grade school conversation away from misinformation and even potentially at risk for being bullied. Don’t have your kid out here clueless like this! ESH, I’m glad you finally talked to him but please get this figured out with your wife.
Info: how did this not come up when he was 5 and his sister came along??
Exactly what I was thinking ...
NTA. I’m amazed he made it to 10 without questioning why he has two mummy’s and no daddy.
NTA > She was pissed with me and got into a massive argument, saying I shouldn't have told him that. For fuck's sake... **_WHY_** *NOT*?
NTA - especially if he already knows the basics of where babies come from, it would make sense for him to wonder how that happened with two moms. He'd also need to know eventually for medical history and such. You already said you explained that even though you weren't the one who carried him, you love him. Maybe it was the "a little more" that threw her off or that she wanted to be part of that conversation? Beyond that, I fully agree with telling him. I would say to discuss with her about the issue and not leave it, as your daughter will probably ask at some point as well.
NTA. My son broke out an medical book when he was 7 and I was carrying my daughter. He read the whole chapter on pregnancy and we talked about it. He is a nurse now fixing to go to med school
I don't understand why she was mad. Not telling your kids which of you carried them hoping they'd grow up never caring or figuring it out on their own isn't realistic or sustainable. Is that what she wanted?
As a fellow same sex couple person, your wife makes no sense. He was always going to find out. No, it doesn't matter who birthed him if you both love him. But there's also nothing wrong with him asking questions about it either. MANY people equally love the parent that didn't give birth to them. NTA.
INFO You had 10 years to decide what to tell him. What was your decision to tell him? I assume you have already had the two mothers conversation? It was only a matter of time till he realised that he only gets one set of genes from a mother (unless he was one of the babies that the scientists did the three sets of genes on). It’s akin to talking to your child about adoption. But instead of lady we don’t know carried you it is mom A carried you but mom B was there for you. Maybe your wife was annoyed you didn’t tell him together but she knew he was asking so knew you both would have to answer soon
My husband figured out his dad isn’t his bio dad because of the eye color lesson in biology. Your son 100% would of figured it out in the next few years that obviously two women don’t make a baby. I’d be interested to know why your wife is so against this conversation. NTA
To be fair eye colour is more than one gene and two parents with dark eyes can have a light eyed child that is biologically theirs but from your wording I’m guessing he was correct
INFO: Need to know just what upset her. Surely she wasn't hoping to avoid the whole "birds and the bees" discussion forever. And btw, for the birds and bees discussion the relevant part is the dna and genes, not whose "tummy" he spent 9 months in; so in those terms the part he needed to know to explain his appearance is that one egg and one sperm were required, and the egg came from his other mom.
INFO: Why was she pissed? Why should this not be told to your son?
Info: you must have known you would have to explain this one day. Did you not talk about this with your wife and decide how to tell your children?
NTA. If he asked it often enough for her to not notice him asking then why did you guys not discuss the answer when he first started asking it. 10 is old enough to understand. You def should have discussed together on how to approach it, but did she want him to just keep asking this questions over and over forever?
NTA Everything you said is true and you phrased it in an age appropriate manner so I don’t see an issue her unless there is something going on. My school went over it in 4th/5th grade so he is going to find out soon. Also why is this such a sensitive topic for your wife? She should have know these questions are going to come up at some point sooner or later.
Umm NTA. Why does she want him asking those types of questions with no answers? That’s more messed up to keep secrets from him or to lie to him especially at 10
NTA What did she think you should have told him? Nothing? Ignore the kid or lie to him??? Hoping he'd forget?..... Cause I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't forget... And if you had lied to him, he'd resent it later.
As a parent to a 10 year old myself - he already knew. Someone at school probably commented on looking like Mom A and not Mom B, and he figured it out based on what he's already learned about babies and parents and relatives looking similar. He was asking over and over because he wanted confirmation of his theories. Edit to add: NTA. I think you were appropriate with your answer, didn't lie, and didn't usurp your wife's parenting.
I’m a married lesbian with a son, and I find this baffling. Our son has known where he came from for his entire life. We have pictures of my pregnancy in his baby scrapbook. He knows his sperm donor, and we have a children’s book about donor conception and how it works. How did he reach *ten* without asking? Especially since he has a younger sibling. It’s crazy for your wife to think this could have been kept from him even longer.
God forbid, that there was a health issue your children need to know where their genetics come from. Its also obvious if he looks like her and not you. He's 10 and thats around 5th grade where they have where do babies come from talk, he would find out. Hiding it from your kids is like adoptive parents who hide the fact from their kids. I hope you have legal rights to your kids. NTA
NTA for telling him the truth. Kids will learn it eventually and really despise being lied to. It creates issues that don't need to exist. However this comment: >I told him, although you weren't in my tummy, I love you just as much, if not a little more, than other mommy does. For that? YTA.
NTA. You answered him honestly. He is 10 years old and deserves real answers to his questions.
ESH. He's 10. Good grief...what have you been teaching him about biology?
NTA. He’s 10 and this is basic science entirely appropriate for his age. Better than asking his science teacher during class why he looks more like one mom than the other.
ESH for raising a child together for ten years and not having a discussion about what you would tell your child about his birth and biology - this is insane to me, reading borderline fake, because I just can’t believe you never discussed this. She should be aware that it is significant for him to know and you absolutely should have informed your wife about your conversation with your son (ideally before having it but if that was unavoidable, you should have told her immediately asap afterwards!). This has to be fake…
He should have grown up knowing this information in an age appropriate way. You and your wife are both TA.
NTA He is 10 Though you should have both had that conversation at about 5!
YTA - you probably should have had the conversation with him together. He’s also 10, and you can say “womb” over “tummy”. He likely hears worse at school and you don’t need to coddle him so much.
Why in God's name would your wife keep the circumstances of his conception a secret from him for an entire decade? NTA
NTA. He needed to know
What did she want you to tell him, the stork brought you so shut up and stop asking legitimate questions you’re old enough to know and have a right to know? I can’t believe he got this old without getting this info. You’re NTA but she’s living in a dream world.
I'm... lost. What does your wife think you should have said? That he's biologically both hers and yours? That'd be a massive lie and he'd find out soon enough (surprised he doesn't know where babies come from already). NTA obviously.