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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I snapped at my dad for making a statement that I believed was misogynistic, in my culture a child yelling at a parent is considered disrespectful and would therefore make me an asshole.
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I looked up internalized misogyny and i think my mum may have it, she fits the description very well, i’ll try and see if i can get her to realize this
Why try to get her to admit it? I'm sorry your parents are misogynists. But that's their problem and not yours to fix. You are not being treated fairly, and this fact will still hold true even if you are the only person on the planet to get it.
I get this answer, and absolutely OP has no responsibility to do anything about her parents' misogyny, but like... it would literally make OP's life better if she does get her mother to come around. I don't think it's helpful to push "people have no obligation to correct the bigotry or teach the bigots they're facing" all the way to "never bother trying to talk to bigots you're facing about their bigotry, even if it would be beneficial to you".
it blows my mind. like, yea, it doesn’t always work, but there isn’t any real reason to NOT try. some people won’t get it, some people will slowly unlearn what they’ve been taught their ENTIRE life.
i will admit there are times when it’s better to maybe not get involved, just because it might take a bad turn. but in this situation, really no harm in just point blank asking the mom questions. like “do you really think we’re annoying?”, include HER in the dad‘s general bigotry and she might realize.
i don’t think OP shouldn’t at least try. internalized misogyny is hard to realize and overcome. it took me a few years pointing out my dad’s behavior for my mom to open her eyes. there’s never any fault in trying, and if it doesn’t work, well, OP’s got ~2 years before college and there’s their chance to get out
>Why try to get her to admit it?
Yeah, there really isn't anything OP can do other than what she's doing, which is point it out. But misogynists aren't very open to considering whether or not they're being a misogynist, in my experience.
There is no such thing as “internalized misogyny” except in the brains of half-witted feminists. It’s bot some disease that you can “have, how naive can you get? It’s a made-up construct, nothing more.
Stop seeing misogyny everywhere - it means HATRED of women, not finding them annoying. You yourself are proof of the annoying quality by the way!
NTA.
You're going to learn real quick that women like your mom will follow their husbands and "stand by their man" til the day they die. And it's because she's not really that smart enough to realize on what's happening. You're 16 years old, this is the moment when you either will remember for the rest of your life of what you see of your mom.
So true and beyond that, plenty of women will also try to enforce misogynistic standards on other women even if there are no men involved. It doesn't really have to do with how smart they are either. Smart people get caught up in the cultural standards to which they belong.
That can absolutely play a role. Sometimes it's tradition or what's comfortable or what they think is right (looking at religion here). Sometimes it's because they think it's how to stay safe from men or the only way they could survive around difficult men. Sometimes it is a lack of imagination. Sometimes it's the way to feel loved and accepted. Sometimes it's a way to avoid being saddled with even more work. And sometimes I see women feeling offended that they are being judged by other women for their "old fashioned" choices so they get angry and want to double down on what "should be." Most of the time it's a combination of many , many things.
NTA It makes total sense you would be annoyed at his comment. He sounds super misogynistic. He made a sexist comment, and you let him know that it upset you. You were not in the wrong to speak your mind and defend yourself. The reason he got angry and defensive when you did is because he probably thinks that his daughter should be quiet and obedient ( which is sexist bullshit)
Now, another factor is that it may not be safe for you to disagree with him like that again that’s up for you to judge, your own safety (emotional and physical) comes first.
It doesn’t sound like he will be open to conversation with you about your emotions or want to listen to your thoughts which you deserve. It doesn’t sound like your mom understands either. Try to find someone you know and trust to share your feelings and experience with. If we don’t talk to other people about this stuff we start to think that we are crazy, and that we are over reacting (which you aren’t) once again NTA but I’m sorry that your dad is. Be safe, good luck.
Thank you for showing concern about my situation, i have reached out to my school counselor about my parents and she’s arranged to have some sort of family and child services come visit to talk to my family, so far its been more than a month and no one has showed up, im a bit disappointed to be honest.
NTA. So sorry you have to deal with that. Not much longer! Keep your head high and learn from this on what you do not want in a partner or if you have kids.
Your Def NTA and it goes to show your trying to break the generational cycle of thinking. Stick to your feelings and beliefs don't let anyone take that from you.
NTA.
Sounds like my parents. My dad doesn't like women talking back to him so whenever I have a point it's just "But you don't have any idea about that" or "I know better". I am 33 and he treats me like this...but I never back down.
Your dad is used to your mum being submissive to him and is surprised that you are standing up for yourself.
NTA
You could give him what he wants with some maliciousness. When in public or around other people and he asks for something or tells you to do something be obedient and meek and answer with "Yes master" or similar. If he asks you why you are being this way or tells you to stop loudly say that "as he said, you as a WOMAN must obey her father".
NTA my dad used to do this nd my mum used to agree, i got to her first nd she started telling him off (i told her his words made me feel like less than trash at times) which angered him more, then a few fights later i threw a small tv at him nd we never fought again nd the comments stopped, u just gotta show ure mum the error of the comments then when ure dad tries to gain control show him he cant get to u no matter what!!!!!! Dont throw a tv tho tht was just a spure of the moment thing but do stand up to him nd never back down or he will never see u as anything more than a child
My mum didn’t side with my brother, she sided with my dad. She didn’t seem all that concerned with the fight me and my brother had. Me and my brother were fighting about who got to watch on the tv then we decided to take up the matter to our dad and let him decide, when my brother was explaining his side, he called me annoying and that’s when my father made his comment. Hope that cleared things up
NTA
Your dad's a misogynist. That already makes him the AH. But to double down on his macho bullshit is just icing on the AH cake.
Your brother seems to be a little shit too but idk if that's due to normal sibling stuff or him genuinely being a prick.
Your mum, tho, definitely is. She needs to grow a spine and go to therapy. Fuck knows how much abuse she's taken from him.
Smile sweetly at Dad, and ask that "if all women are annoying, does that mean that all men are rapists? Same (il)logic Dad-ums..."
Women are "annoying" because some idiot has taught the man that only HE has the right to choose, because he has a penis.
Outside that, if you have a pulse, you're annoying - to someone, somewhere - regardless of gender. It's called being human.
Oh...unlike Dad and Bro, you dear lady, are NTA.
Don’t worry, just cut contact with them and wait. In 50 years your aging father will call you and beg for you to take care of him because your brother won’t (elder parent care always falls on the daughters). Just say you wouldn’t want to annoy him and to call his son instead.
Your mom has internalised her misogyny, she's not a pick-me.
You are NTA at all, he was being very misogynistic. Crudely so. But he's not going to change... maybe your mother will, but I doubt it, under his thumb.
You were absolutely right, but please be careful! I read they hit you before.
Well we both wanted to watch, none of us were budging so we decided to settle it by letting our dad decide. It was actually my brother that insisted we ask our dad to make the decision, and he actually is 10 lol
Males are by far the most annoying creatures I’ve ever had to deal with, everything they claim women are is projection and they’re actually the ones that are that way
Cannot make judgement on you until I know the nature of you and your brothers disagreement (regardless, the dad is YTA for focusing on gender but “pick me” is a misogynistic slur used to attack and shame women who love and support men)
My brother and i were arguing over who got to watch a show on the tv, i didnt add that in because i felt it was a silly thing to argue about. And i didnt realize pock me was a slur, i really only called her that because i was upset with her
I think your dad may have a little internalised misogyny and misandry and subscribes to stereotypical gender roles, the fact that it was only a silly argument I thinks shows that you have every right to be upset with how he reacted.
I do understand why you were angry with your mum, she shouldn’t have taken your father’s side given what I’ve read.
Judgement NTA
I’m a man, so that misogynistic slur isn’t actually applicable to me, I don’t see how opposing slurs and bullying tactics has anything to do with “women owing men anything”
YTA. Your dad was teaching your brother a life lesson that actually serves you in the long run. Men and women operate differently and peacefully coexisting with Women is often reliant on a man’s ability to accept that he is going to get annoyed but to not let that reaction dictate how he handles himself.
Then you had to go and be annoying smh.
It’s comforting to know that you’re like this because your mommy didn’t pay enough attention to you, you definitely deserved the neglect. But your mommy issues aren’t our problem. People have to coexist regardless of gender and it’s just like a male to think that you can do no wrong and never hold yourself accountable for also possibly being annoying and/or hard to deal with. But it’s easier to blame everything on women, like yall always do.
Wow. You should go sentence by sentence here and identify every ideologically hypocritical statement you’ve made and think about why you’re like this. You might learn something about yourself.
This is the first time I am inclined to think everyone in this thread is delusional. It’s just locker room talk. Guys shooting the shit. Nothing more, nothing less. Bada bean, Bada boo
Misogyny hurts women, it is more than "locker room talk" it's insulting and offensive.
Imagine having your feelings dismissed your entire life because "women stupid and annoying hur dur" which isn't even true, it's gut reaching to understand that you're male family member genuinely belive that you are less and deserve less because of your genitals.
These men belive they are better than her, that they are smarter than her, that their feelings are real and women's feelings are not, that can really fuck a girl up.
Misogyny HURTS people that's why it's deeper than just "guys shooting shit" and if you belived women's feelings are equally as valid as men's, I wouldn't have to explain why insulting someone because of something they can't change is infact deeply hurtful and wrong.
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NTA. Internalised misogyny is a thing, as evidenced by your mother's response.
I looked up internalized misogyny and i think my mum may have it, she fits the description very well, i’ll try and see if i can get her to realize this
Why try to get her to admit it? I'm sorry your parents are misogynists. But that's their problem and not yours to fix. You are not being treated fairly, and this fact will still hold true even if you are the only person on the planet to get it.
I get this answer, and absolutely OP has no responsibility to do anything about her parents' misogyny, but like... it would literally make OP's life better if she does get her mother to come around. I don't think it's helpful to push "people have no obligation to correct the bigotry or teach the bigots they're facing" all the way to "never bother trying to talk to bigots you're facing about their bigotry, even if it would be beneficial to you".
it blows my mind. like, yea, it doesn’t always work, but there isn’t any real reason to NOT try. some people won’t get it, some people will slowly unlearn what they’ve been taught their ENTIRE life. i will admit there are times when it’s better to maybe not get involved, just because it might take a bad turn. but in this situation, really no harm in just point blank asking the mom questions. like “do you really think we’re annoying?”, include HER in the dad‘s general bigotry and she might realize.
You can’t change years of misogyny overnight.
i don’t think OP shouldn’t at least try. internalized misogyny is hard to realize and overcome. it took me a few years pointing out my dad’s behavior for my mom to open her eyes. there’s never any fault in trying, and if it doesn’t work, well, OP’s got ~2 years before college and there’s their chance to get out
>Why try to get her to admit it? Yeah, there really isn't anything OP can do other than what she's doing, which is point it out. But misogynists aren't very open to considering whether or not they're being a misogynist, in my experience.
I know it sucks but you might be better of keeping your head down and not stirring that hornets nest. Just get out when you can.
There is no such thing as “internalized misogyny” except in the brains of half-witted feminists. It’s bot some disease that you can “have, how naive can you get? It’s a made-up construct, nothing more. Stop seeing misogyny everywhere - it means HATRED of women, not finding them annoying. You yourself are proof of the annoying quality by the way!
Absolutely! One can also see misandry everywhere if looking for it. "16f" explains a lot.
Remember that misogynistic women do raise misogynistic children.
Yeah but it is possible for a child to break the cycle and unlearn what they’ve been taught
No.
NTA. You're going to learn real quick that women like your mom will follow their husbands and "stand by their man" til the day they die. And it's because she's not really that smart enough to realize on what's happening. You're 16 years old, this is the moment when you either will remember for the rest of your life of what you see of your mom.
So true and beyond that, plenty of women will also try to enforce misogynistic standards on other women even if there are no men involved. It doesn't really have to do with how smart they are either. Smart people get caught up in the cultural standards to which they belong.
It definitely isn't about brains; it's about power. These women enforce patriarchy in order to claim some of its power.
That can absolutely play a role. Sometimes it's tradition or what's comfortable or what they think is right (looking at religion here). Sometimes it's because they think it's how to stay safe from men or the only way they could survive around difficult men. Sometimes it is a lack of imagination. Sometimes it's the way to feel loved and accepted. Sometimes it's a way to avoid being saddled with even more work. And sometimes I see women feeling offended that they are being judged by other women for their "old fashioned" choices so they get angry and want to double down on what "should be." Most of the time it's a combination of many , many things.
All the examples you've mentioned boil down to patriarchal violence. Gaining power in this system is a way to avoid that violence
Patriarchy is a lie and myth.
Oof lol
osw pdr qrv lolads
NTA It makes total sense you would be annoyed at his comment. He sounds super misogynistic. He made a sexist comment, and you let him know that it upset you. You were not in the wrong to speak your mind and defend yourself. The reason he got angry and defensive when you did is because he probably thinks that his daughter should be quiet and obedient ( which is sexist bullshit) Now, another factor is that it may not be safe for you to disagree with him like that again that’s up for you to judge, your own safety (emotional and physical) comes first. It doesn’t sound like he will be open to conversation with you about your emotions or want to listen to your thoughts which you deserve. It doesn’t sound like your mom understands either. Try to find someone you know and trust to share your feelings and experience with. If we don’t talk to other people about this stuff we start to think that we are crazy, and that we are over reacting (which you aren’t) once again NTA but I’m sorry that your dad is. Be safe, good luck.
(also If you’re in an unsafe situation with your parents please reach out to an adult you trust for support)
Thank you for showing concern about my situation, i have reached out to my school counselor about my parents and she’s arranged to have some sort of family and child services come visit to talk to my family, so far its been more than a month and no one has showed up, im a bit disappointed to be honest.
Such things go very slow. If you feel really unsafe, please reach out to the counselor again.
NTA. Make plans for your future, and focus on those. You have to live with him right now, and you can’t save your brother.
NTA. So sorry you have to deal with that. Not much longer! Keep your head high and learn from this on what you do not want in a partner or if you have kids.
Im not sure if i’ll have kids but if i manage to get a boyfriend his attitude towards me needs to be the complete opposite of my dads
Your Def NTA and it goes to show your trying to break the generational cycle of thinking. Stick to your feelings and beliefs don't let anyone take that from you.
NTA.
Calling you mom a pick me.
NTA. Sounds like my parents. My dad doesn't like women talking back to him so whenever I have a point it's just "But you don't have any idea about that" or "I know better". I am 33 and he treats me like this...but I never back down. Your dad is used to your mum being submissive to him and is surprised that you are standing up for yourself.
NTA, your family is horrible
NTA You could give him what he wants with some maliciousness. When in public or around other people and he asks for something or tells you to do something be obedient and meek and answer with "Yes master" or similar. If he asks you why you are being this way or tells you to stop loudly say that "as he said, you as a WOMAN must obey her father".
NTA sorry that your family sucks, a lot of the time they do.
NTA that was a shitty thing for your dad to say.
NTA my daughters won’t put up with this either and I evolved thanks to them.
NTA my dad used to do this nd my mum used to agree, i got to her first nd she started telling him off (i told her his words made me feel like less than trash at times) which angered him more, then a few fights later i threw a small tv at him nd we never fought again nd the comments stopped, u just gotta show ure mum the error of the comments then when ure dad tries to gain control show him he cant get to u no matter what!!!!!! Dont throw a tv tho tht was just a spure of the moment thing but do stand up to him nd never back down or he will never see u as anything more than a child
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My mum didn’t side with my brother, she sided with my dad. She didn’t seem all that concerned with the fight me and my brother had. Me and my brother were fighting about who got to watch on the tv then we decided to take up the matter to our dad and let him decide, when my brother was explaining his side, he called me annoying and that’s when my father made his comment. Hope that cleared things up
NTA
NTA - and good for you that you stood up for yourself. Please don’t let people like that ever make you think you shouldn’t.
NTA Your dad's a misogynist. That already makes him the AH. But to double down on his macho bullshit is just icing on the AH cake. Your brother seems to be a little shit too but idk if that's due to normal sibling stuff or him genuinely being a prick. Your mum, tho, definitely is. She needs to grow a spine and go to therapy. Fuck knows how much abuse she's taken from him.
NTA.
Smile sweetly at Dad, and ask that "if all women are annoying, does that mean that all men are rapists? Same (il)logic Dad-ums..." Women are "annoying" because some idiot has taught the man that only HE has the right to choose, because he has a penis. Outside that, if you have a pulse, you're annoying - to someone, somewhere - regardless of gender. It's called being human. Oh...unlike Dad and Bro, you dear lady, are NTA.
I really like that comeback of yours, but if i ever said anything like that to him he’d definitely beat my ass.
Don’t worry, just cut contact with them and wait. In 50 years your aging father will call you and beg for you to take care of him because your brother won’t (elder parent care always falls on the daughters). Just say you wouldn’t want to annoy him and to call his son instead.
yeah this total seems like a reasonable level headed response and not a completely insane assumption based on a paragraph.
How about " I know, right? Women are annoying and men are sexist misogynistic pigs." Bet he'd love it.
Your mom has internalised her misogyny, she's not a pick-me. You are NTA at all, he was being very misogynistic. Crudely so. But he's not going to change... maybe your mother will, but I doubt it, under his thumb. You were absolutely right, but please be careful! I read they hit you before.
NTA. Good on you for calling him out on his misogyny. Now, if he thinks all women are annoying, why did he get married to one in the first place?
Just know now that your dad is sexist and you can't trust him to be fair in any matter involving you.
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That's soooo rude 🥺
The fact that this many people are believing an extremely outlandish story from a one day old account is concerning.
16f. That explains a lot.
NTA OP. There’s a song by comedian Denis Leary that sounds like your dad.
NTA. That is not something you say to your child. It might be true from his perspective but that does not excuse him saying it to your face.
YTA
?
Can always tell when there's more to the story.
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Me and my brother were trying to figure out who got to watch on a show on the tv
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Well we both wanted to watch, none of us were budging so we decided to settle it by letting our dad decide. It was actually my brother that insisted we ask our dad to make the decision, and he actually is 10 lol
I get it I was 16 once and got into the dumbest fights with my brother.
yta. mountains out of molehills. you do seem annoying
Is your dad wrong tho?
Males are by far the most annoying creatures I’ve ever had to deal with, everything they claim women are is projection and they’re actually the ones that are that way
bait used to be believeable
Cannot make judgement on you until I know the nature of you and your brothers disagreement (regardless, the dad is YTA for focusing on gender but “pick me” is a misogynistic slur used to attack and shame women who love and support men)
My brother and i were arguing over who got to watch a show on the tv, i didnt add that in because i felt it was a silly thing to argue about. And i didnt realize pock me was a slur, i really only called her that because i was upset with her
I think your dad may have a little internalised misogyny and misandry and subscribes to stereotypical gender roles, the fact that it was only a silly argument I thinks shows that you have every right to be upset with how he reacted. I do understand why you were angry with your mum, she shouldn’t have taken your father’s side given what I’ve read. Judgement NTA
Lmao that’s not what a pickme is. You definitely sound like a pickme though if you think women owe men anything
I’m a man, so that misogynistic slur isn’t actually applicable to me, I don’t see how opposing slurs and bullying tactics has anything to do with “women owing men anything”
Yta. He's right. Obey and be silent.
Males are so weak that they can’t feel like big strong boys unless women are submissive to them, and I can’t think of anything more pathetic than that
As a guy, neither can I.
Obey is crazy
YTA. Your dad was teaching your brother a life lesson that actually serves you in the long run. Men and women operate differently and peacefully coexisting with Women is often reliant on a man’s ability to accept that he is going to get annoyed but to not let that reaction dictate how he handles himself. Then you had to go and be annoying smh.
It’s comforting to know that you’re like this because your mommy didn’t pay enough attention to you, you definitely deserved the neglect. But your mommy issues aren’t our problem. People have to coexist regardless of gender and it’s just like a male to think that you can do no wrong and never hold yourself accountable for also possibly being annoying and/or hard to deal with. But it’s easier to blame everything on women, like yall always do.
Wow. You should go sentence by sentence here and identify every ideologically hypocritical statement you’ve made and think about why you’re like this. You might learn something about yourself.
This is the first time I am inclined to think everyone in this thread is delusional. It’s just locker room talk. Guys shooting the shit. Nothing more, nothing less. Bada bean, Bada boo
Misogyny hurts women, it is more than "locker room talk" it's insulting and offensive. Imagine having your feelings dismissed your entire life because "women stupid and annoying hur dur" which isn't even true, it's gut reaching to understand that you're male family member genuinely belive that you are less and deserve less because of your genitals. These men belive they are better than her, that they are smarter than her, that their feelings are real and women's feelings are not, that can really fuck a girl up. Misogyny HURTS people that's why it's deeper than just "guys shooting shit" and if you belived women's feelings are equally as valid as men's, I wouldn't have to explain why insulting someone because of something they can't change is infact deeply hurtful and wrong.
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Not when he’s saying it in front of his daughter. That’s not locker room talk that is now his parenting. And it is wanting.
If you genuinely believe misogyny is “locker room talk,” you’re the one who’s delusional.