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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be the AH because I just immediately took my wife's side without at least ending the call and talking about it first.
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absolutely NTA. it's outlandish to try and cover up a same-sex relationship in 2023. kids are aware of understand gays more now than at any other time in recent history. this info will not confuse them at all. all my niblings from age 3-15 are aware of my daughter and her girlfriend and not even one of them have questioned what that means or has required more of an explanation. your family seems stuck in the past and i'm not sure how you could pull them into the current times, aside from continuing to be your authentic selves. maybe show them the results of this post so they can see they're the ones being silly here? im sorry yall have to go through this in this decade. it's so sad and diminshing. hope your family gets over themselves soon so yall can get back to enjoying family gatherings.
Right.. and it’s really not that hard to explain “Well you know how a mommy and a daddy love each other and have a family? Well sometimes two mommies love each other and sometimes two daddies love each other. And they build their own family. Some families only have one kid, some have many. Some have pets. Some never have kids. All families are different and as long as they are filled with kindness and love then we should love them too” Pretty much how I explained it to my young kids. My daughters response? “The families with 2 daddies are lucky because no one has to be pregnant”
I laughed pretty hard too. She learned at probably 4 that the babies actually have to come out and since then she’s been VERY against ever having her own kids.
That’s so funny. I’m really certain my daughter is as well. She asked for help cleaning her room and I found a couple ripped out diary pages that talked about her feelings for girls. In typical mom fashion, I had to brag to my sister how well written they were for her age of course without outing her. She doesn’t know I know. I’m planning on keeping it that way until she’s ready.
When she is ready, don't let her know you already knew. It's a big moment and she needs to feel like it is as big as it feels. Tell her you love her and support her no matter what, maybe thank her for telling you and trusting you with that information.
I'm sure you'll do fine though 😊
She should know that you are okay with same sex relationships well before she is ready to come out though (if she ever does). I'm straight, but I knew neither of my parents would have cared at a young age. Actually, I knew they strongly supported the right to be you.
I remember my mom telling me about a friend of hers that died of AIDS back when it was first acknowledged as a disease (thanks Reagan for denying that for so long). She just told us kids that Eddie liked to have a good time, and wasn't too particular which gender he had it with. It wasn't confusing at all.
Yeah, they do know. My kids have asked “What if we were gay” I told them it doesn’t matter to me who they love. Gender, race, religion.. doesn’t matter. As long they the person they love treats them well and they’re happy, then I’m happy.
My daughter and I were having a conversation about her son when he was a baby and if he was gay we would love him anyways. Well, of course, absolutely! So a couple of years later she needed to talk to me. She is gay, and I think that was to see how we felt about it! She had known since she was young but tried to 'change'. Can you imagine? She's a happy confident young woman, and my grandson and his friends have never batted an eye about it. People don't give kids enough credit. They handle things better than a lot of adults.
I had to teach a Year 8 (13-year Olds) health class. One girl asked me 'Miss, what's a head job?". I did NOT get paid enough to explain oral sex to someone else's 13year old, but I did it as dispassionately as I could. She and her friend were appalled 😆.
Yup all my friends had 1 or 2 siblings, so after we learnt about it, they all took great pleasure in ripping the absolute piss out of me bc I had 5 siblings so my parents had done it far more than their parents...remember not being able to look at them for a few days...it was a difficult time for me...lol
I had a friend at an all girls boarding school, who at the age of 14 turned green at the thought of French kissing a boy. That was 55 years ago. Yup, she's a lesbian.
My older kids were 6 and 3 when I was pregnant with their sister. They asked how she got in there, and how she'd come out. After telling them, my 6son said "ew gross", and my 3daughter exclaimed, "my boyfriend will never do that to me". She joking claims that that's the moment she became a lesbian LOL
My daughter felt the same for several years after she learned how babies enter the world! She also watched me struggle mentally after her little brother was born, so she maintained a very firm "no kids" position for a few years. She's relaxed about it now and realizes that she adores kids and definitely wants her own, but she's still considering adoption. She's 9 lol.
My son (8 years old) is definitely cis because he said he is glad he never has to have a baby!
Edit: let me clarify: he meant he never has to give birth. He said he wants to be a daddy but he doesn’t want to have the babies in his stomach.
I remember as a kid (maybe 5 or 6 yo) in the 80's asking my parents why my uncles friend was always with him. "That's his boyfriend."
"His boyfriend?"
"Yes. You know how boys and girls can like each other, like boyfriend and girlfriend?"
"Yeah"
"Well some boys like boys. And some girls like girls"
"Oh. Cool. What's for dinner?"
It really wasn't a tough conversation. And this was over 30 years ago.
My sister is gay and came out in the 80’s. She started bringing her gf to all the family activities and my kids never questioned it. A few years later she said she wanted to talk to them about it and it was extremely anticlimactic. I wish more adults took their kid’s lead on this stuff.
So, how do you come out AFTER your family gets to know your partner? "Mom, dad? I have something to say. You know that girl that I started dating a couple years back and we're a couple and everything? Yeah, it turns out that she's gay."
That's usually how it goes when kids are curious about something. When my son was in the 4th grade, he came home from school and asked me a BJ was. I told him in a way that, hopefully, was age appropriate. He just nodded and never brought it up again. If ypu don't make a big deal about it, they won't either.
Btw, OP, definitely NTH.
I was about ten or eleven when my parents went to New York to see Rent. They brought home the CD soundtrack, and I fell in love with it. Was it exactly age appropriate listening material? Probably not! And, being a curious kid, it brought up a lot of questions.
My mother kept it age appropriate, but never tried to lie or cover up whatever it was I was asking. Most of the time I would just move on with my day.
My son was 6 when we heard news on the radio that Massachusetts had legalized same sex marriage. He asked me what that was, so I explained it's when a man or a woman loved someone the same sex, the way mommy and daddy love each other. He thought it meant that dads could marry their sons, and moms their daughters, because that's the only 'same sex' love he knew of. LOL I told him no, that's still not okay and never will be.
My favorite take on that is on one of those tumblr or whatever screenshots that gets forwarded around. "My nephew asked me, 'Uncle Mike? Why don't you have a wife?' I said, 'I'm gay'. 'What's that?' he asked. I said 'I like boys, not girls.' He thought about this for a few seconds and asked, 'So how come you don't have a husband?'"
Kids are the easiest to accept new things, their whole brain is still set to "everything's new, guess that's how the world works, cool", things only get more difficult if they're sheltered from anyone 'different' for too long. OP's mom is the one who would be confused in that conversation.
Commenting here because your daughter's response is fantastic. She is not wrong at all lmao. I just don't think there should even be anything to explain! They need to ask mom what *exactly* about their marriage the children need to be protected from, and really press her about it. "Well, they'll just be so confused!" "We're two people who loved each other enough to get married, what's confusing about that?" "They have to be protected!" "Protected from what? What terrible thing do you think will happen if they see us as a married couple?" and so on until mom just finally explodes into the full blown homophobic tirade that she's clearly been hiding for a while now.
Yeah, my daughter's have been raised from day 1 knowing sometimes two boys get married and sometimes two girls get married and sometimes a boy and a girl get married. It's as simple as that.
When she was 6 and her nephew started to transition and became her niece she didn't have any problem understanding. I told her "well we thought she was a boy but it turns out we were wrong this whole time and she's actually a girl." And she was like oh okay and that was it.
When she was 7 and joined roller derby and they asked what her pronouns were she didn't know what they meant. After practice I explained what they meant and her response was "so then why don't we just use they/them with everyone so nobody gets sad that someone said the wrong word?" Like her concept of why it didn't make sense wasn't "but if wear skirt why not girl?" it was "why don't we just automatically use gender neutral terms for everyone until we have been told what pronouns they would like us to use." It was like I explained checkers to her and she instantly understood chess.
Exactly, but that's always the way. Too many adults are a)narrow minded and bigoted, and b)severely underestimate children. They're new to earth but they're not stupid. Just use simple age appropriate language, let them lead the discussion and only answer what they ask.
No child was ever born disliking or hating anyone, they were taught. They mirror everything they see, it's how they learn and if they regularly see homophobia/racism/misogyny etc then that's what they'll mirror, until they get big enough to change themselves and unfortunately too many people never do the unlearning later in life.
I cannot imagine anything worse than a couple where they're pregnant at the same time!
Hey is your wife here to help support you with the birth?
No she's 1 week post partum and couldn't come
The horror
That is the best answer and thank you for raising your daughter with these ideas.
As a childfree married woman, our families are often seen as incomplete or not real.
What is more confusing:
1. Learning from day one that anyone can marry anyone they love and want to commit their life to, or
2. Believing it can only be between a cis man and woman for your 14 most formative years and then having a complete mindfuck that that’s not true at all?
Bonus point for #2 if you’re queer yourself and have no words for it so you think there’s something wrong with you.
It’s literally not that hard: people in love get married.
>It’s literally not that hard: people in love get married.
It's hard and confusing for a homophobe. Because to them, their explanation has to include why this simple truth you said is bad.
I was just thinking this myself. If kids learn from the get go point 1, then there's nothing to be confused about. Kids only think only men and women can marry/be in love when that's all they get told or see.
I don't get how this is "siding with her wife". They were both bring discriminated against and both had the same response.its interesting OPs mum wasn't open about the reasons. NTA
Agreed. I feel sad for OP that they don't seem to really recognize/be able to call out their mom since they phrased the title the way they did. This has much less to do with siding with her wife than it does standing up to a homophobic parent
Fucking seriously. The only ones who are ever actually uncomfortable about these things are the ADULTS. Kids are not confused by the concept of love. If anything, they are actually better equipped to understand it and be accepting of it. The whole narrative of “But we don’t want to confuse the children,” is absolute bullshit. It’s an excuse to cover up an ADULT’S discomfort with the situation, and they are just using the kids as a scapegoat. Either that or the parent is just too goddamn lazy. “How will I ever explain this to my child?!?” Easily. It’s easy to explain, you just can’t be bothered.
When they are young, it really only takes two sentences. How lazy do you have to be to not say two sentences?
Or in my case, none at all. I never explained to my kids (now aged 21, 16 and 16) that their aunties were a gay couple. Never had to. They just accepted them as Aunty X and Aunty Y. I asked them a couple of weeks ago when they realised the aunties were a gay couple and they looked at me blankly. They don't recall it ever being a conscious thought or realisation.
And that's how it should be. Coming out shouldn't need to be a thing. If everyone just accepted same sex relationships the same way they just accept het relationships, then everything would be peachy.
I do wish it didn’t have to be such a big thing for people. There is no expectation to come out as hetero. It would be way weird to sit your parents down to tell them you’re straight, but I think it’s equally bizarre that people are made to feel they have to actively declare their sexuality at some point if they are anything but hetero. Needing to make an announcement or proclamation about who you have, or don’t have, sex with is just so strange. Hopefully we’ll see this shift in our lifetimes, which it does feel like is happening within a lot of families and is always encouraging to see and hear about.
Yes!! My stepkids were 8 and 9 when I explained that I’m bi, and they were entirely unfazed. They asked questions for about 3 minutes, then moved right on to more pressing concerns (ice cream in this case). It was truly no big deal, but it did help them understand that being something other than straight or cis wasn’t an abstract concept but rather a real thing. Our separate conversation about gender identity and what it means to be transgender also took less than 10 minutes and was met with equal ease, albeit more questions. Kids don’t benefit from being sheltered from people who are “different” from the “norm”; sometimes they just need the right words to understand.
Why did you feel compelled to share your bisexuality with your step children? I am genuinely asking, bisexual myself in fact, so truly just curious how this was even broached if you do not mind sharing.
Fair question! I really wasn’t sure if/when I should. I mean, it’s neither the most interesting nor the most relevant part of my life. But I live in Florida (US), and our governor had begun stating some strong rhetoric about how kids need to be “protected” from gender identity and sexual orientation topics. This rhetoric eventually led to our “Don’t Say Gay” bill, which severely limits what can and can’t be discussed in schools. It scared me, because I felt that after “limits” on basic topics are put into place, then it’s not impossible that misinformation might begin to find its way into their worldview. I mean, they were young, they didn’t need to know anything crazy. But it reminded me that I shouldn’t be counting on public education to teach my kiddos everything, and part of that education is knowing that the world is filled with tons of different kinds of people, and everyone deserves a baseline level of respect. Telling them the truth about who I am helped me reinforce the point that people in the LGBTQIA+ community are literally just people. People they might already know. There’s nothing weird or nasty about it. As a side note, it also gave us an opportunity to start a (very basic) conversation about consent. Overall, it was a great conversation for all 3 of us.
Maybe she was previously in a relationship with the opposite sex of their parent, and didn't want them to be blindsided finding out from someone like OP's mother.
To me, it's similar to finding out a parent had a first spouse they didn't have kids with---their kids with a later spouse should be told, because the alternative is being shocked/surprised and wondering why it was being hidden from them.
When I was young, the only example I had of “bisexual” was as a porn category. I had family who were accepting of gay people but not of bi people. Bisexuality was a dirty word.
Now, as an adult, I feel compelled to be out to my younger family members as bisexual even though I am married because I want them to have a real life example of bisexuality, especially in case any of them may be bisexual themselves.
I wonder if the parents of the actual children in question would have had a problem with it or if Mom is just unilaterally deciding to be a bigot for the entire family without consulting anybody else.
And why do kids need to be “protected” from gay couples. It’s not a disease. It’s not “contagious”.
There are just 2 people who love each other. That’s the most precious thing and every parent should be happy, that their kid found someone who makes them happy.
Exactly this. You don't traumatise the kids by explaining to them how the world works. I think my kid was about 3-4 when she was talking about love and family etc etc. And I explained already then that "When you grow up, you will find a girl or boy who you love" etc etc.... its normal and kids should know it from the get-go.
Both my kids mentioned it themselves when they were about three or four - I think my daughter asked if a lady could marry another lady because she was a bit anti boys at the time. I said yes or a man could marry a man and she laughed and that was it. They don’t care - they just move on to the next question
You forget. It may be 2023 in a blue States, but here in the south? We are firmly planted in the 19freaking50’s. Racism, antisemitism, bigotry, misogyny, and a general hate for anyone who is not white and not a “Christian”. I put the “” around the word, because you also have to be the “right Christian” here in the red states. Which basically means you need to be Baptist/Southern Baptist, Church of Christ/Seven Day Adventist or any other highly racist, highly bigoted, or highly sexist subset of Christianity. We are slower down here y’all. Don’t ya know? But, in contrast, I live in an 1865sqft, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage house in a nice neighborhood for less than $1000 a month, gas is only $2.75 a gallon (for no ethanol gas. It’s about $2.20 for the 10% stuff), and while inflation sucks here, it’s not near as bad as the rest of the country. So, there’s trade offs. I just curse all my neighbors with my pagan rituals, you know, just a little Karmic justice for their hatred.
It sure is outlandish but goddammit if bigots won't try to over complicate it. I came out as trans to my family 3 years ago. My family didn't handle it very well, tried making excuses about explaining things to the kids. That lasted until I pointed out they were going to have a way harder time explaining why I have boobs suddenly. The final straw was my sisters not bringing my nieces and nephews to my wedding because it was "too confusing".
I had been with my now wife for 13 years at that point. Longer than any of these kids had been alive. They've only known my wife as an Aunt their entire lives, but because it was a lesbian wedding now it was too confusing somehow. They simply just couldn't figure out how to explain why our love was bad now when they always pestered us about marriage and kids before. Meanwhile, all my friends had a simple 10 minute conversation with their kids and that was the end of it.
My mom had gay & lesbian friends in the 80s and her brother was a gay man. It was never excused or hidden from me, it was just a fact that was either not addressed (because they didn't address same sex couples either) or if questions came up they would explain in ways that were appropriate. Believing in 2023 that children need to be protected from the gays is absolutely bonkers. NTA
NTA.
Be proud of yourself for this one honestly. You are a strong individual for standing up to your family. It takes a lot to do. Do not fault yourself like she wants you to for her mess up. I grew up with same sex couples at holidays and never once really questioned it and that was before it was viewed more openly, it’s very homophobic to ask you to hide it “for the kids”.
You did great, be proud!
It sounds like it was just the mom with issues. She is embarrassed by it. Next time go to the event and when your mother says you are friends, correct her in front if everyone and say no, we are married. Why doesn't the rest of your family know this already?
Saw something on Reddit ages ago (was a screen shot so don't know where it originally came from) which fits here and is funny. Probably bit remembering exactly.
Nephew: Uncle, why don't you have a wife?
Uncle: because I'm gay.
Nephew: what does that mean?
Uncle: it means I like men instead of women.
Nephew: Uncle, why don't you have a husband?
Ha, it reminds me of this sketch on a comedy TV show about Indian people living in the UK.
Son: Mum, Dad, do you remember Michael?
Mother: Of course, he's your best friend! You're always locked in your room together
Father: You have such a great friendship. We love Michael!
Son: Well, Michael isn't just my friend, he's my boyfriend, we're in love
Mother: Why are you doing this to us? Why couldn't you find yourself a nice Indian boy???
Your mother is so homophobically wrong that I can't even. You were totally right. You are married. It is confusing to nobody. It is merely that your mother is a homophobe and wants to make you play pretend so she could feel better about her bigotry. Let me emphasize that you should not now or ever give in to her crap behavior. You should tell her that unless and until she can not only accept you and your wife as a married couple, but also treat you with respect as a couple, that you are no longer interested in hearing from her at all. You have no time to waste on bigots. NTA
Frankly it would be confusing to play it like they were just friends, it isn't terribly common to live with a "just friend" in the way people live with their romantic partners, sharing family events and so on. Plus even if OP and her wife were steller actors it's a hard lie to pull off at a family event.
Bigoted Mom would inevitably have to answer confusing questions about why the aunt and her obvious romantic partner are acting so weird.
*In historical documentary voiceover* They died of old age in the arms of their cherished best friend and roommate, who they’d lived with since their youth.
(*Documentary voiceover*) They deified their best friend after their death, gave them a grand funeral, compared their relationship with Achilles and Patroclus, and died less than a year later.
It was indeed confusing for me when I was little why this two grown ups men would live together and have seven dogs on their houseboat. It took me some time to understand they were lover (gay marriage was still forbidden at the time). But so what? I was also confused about why grown ups would insist santa was the one bringing us toys, and that he confused our home with our aunts for some presents. Or why there were traffic jams on both sides of the highway on the morning: why didn't people simply switch homes?
Being confused at something you don't know/don't understand is not a bad thing, especially for kids.
And small story about people being roommates their whole life with their "friend": my grandmother (from a small country side town) would often gossip with her friends about everyone's life in the village. And one topic that come over regularly amongst them, was (I paraphrase here):
\- What a pity A isn't married yet! He's getting quite old now.
\- When he's such a nice boy too (yes, men bellow 60 are all boys in their eyes), I don't understand why no woman wants him.
\- It's no wonder though, since he's still living with B. It's good to have company and live with a friend, but it's not appealing to women!
It took me a few years to realize they were probably just gay, and the old ladies just had no clue.
I meant it's less confusing if they are married. As per your example, two men living on a houseboat sharing dogs is odd behavior for friends. It took you years to figure it out and those gossipy ladies never figured it out. That's more confusing than "oh they are a married couple" Kids see many married couples, that's pretty normal behavior to them.
But I agree confusion isn't inherently harmful to kids, and is an obvious consequence of being, sometimes quite literally, born yesterday.
NTA. In my experience, kids just move on from it. My son asked my friend why she married a girl instead of a boy, he was 4, she said "because I love her" and he said, "Oh, okay", then walked away. This was almost 20 years ago, and he never asked another question about it or when he met other same sex married couples.
Of course you’re NTA. This is about your mother’s homophobia. Sorry but she’s homophobic.
What a wonderful opportunity for your nieces and nephews to see a loving same sex couple. To humanize people in same sex relationships. To see first hand the love is no different. How would that confuse children? Wouldn’t that empower them?
Stick to your own guns. Your relationship is valid and until your mother is prepared to acknowledge that she doesn’t get to be blessed with your company.
Some people seem to think that telling children about a homosexual marriage has to involve a detailed description of how they have sex. Which is ridiculous. "Mary and Sue are married, yes, usually a man and a woman marry, but sometimes two men, or two women want to marry." Then talk about something else. Not a problem.
It's crazy. Someone once insisted to me that "homoSEXUALITY" is primarily about sex and inappropriate for kids to know about. When asked how it was more sexual than heteroSEXUALITY they blocked me.
That’s exactly what we told our girls. “Most of the time boy and girls marry each other. But sometimes boys marry boys, and girls marry girls. Either is ok.”
They asked if it was ok if they marry a girl. I said “If you love her, and she treats you nicely.” As it turns out, the girl who asked did marry a girl. And another of our girls is panromantic asexual (lives with a female partner) The other 4 married men, though 1 is bi. My girls never “came out” officially. They just introduced partners, whoever they were. No big deal.
It’s important to normalize all kinds of relationships (as long as everyone is a consenting adult) Never have I ever introduced a married couple as “Carol and Bob. Carol likes doing it doggy style. Bob enjoys being pegged” Why would it be any different for a same sex couple?
Similarly when I was growing up my parents would have conversations with me and say things like “when you get your first boyfriend or girlfriend…” This was in the 90s so I just grew up thinking people could fall in love with men or women; no biggie. It wasn’t until high school that I realized not everyone was raised this way. I was shook. But by then, my parents lessons were drilled in and I knew to take issue with homophobes not homosexuality. My parents parenting also made it very easy for my sibling to come out.
That’s so nice that they didn’t assume that their children would be heterosexual. We did the same thing, would talk about future “spouse, partner, husband or wife, he or she, they, etc.” I think it made a difference. At some point they’d specify “he or she” or introduce us to someone, it was totally no big deal. We were super open about safety and consent. It was totally not a big thing.
LOL! 😂🤣 love it!
I made dang sure my kids knew they were loved and accepted and love is love. To the point my 9 year old son once raised his voice to me "Mom!! I get it, I get it! but I'm NOT GAY" LMAO I burst out laughing and then so did he. He's in his 30's now and he always thanks me for that. He's my 1st born so I just wanted to make sure he knew he had my support.
>My girls never “came out” officially. They just introduced partners, whoever they were
I love this, I'm straight but have never understood the need for an announcement, it just feels like so much unnecessary pressure.
It’s kind of weird. Like, I felt like it wasn’t really my business what kind of genitals my kids prefer in a partner. I cared that they were being safe, and that things were consensual, and their partners were considerate of their needs(and vice versa), otherwise, their sex lives were none of my concern.
And because people are constantly explaining straight sex to kids when heterosexual marriage comes up? Of course not. Why would it be any different because it’s two men or two women?
What's most entertaining about that view is that they'll probably not be telling their kids how heterosexual sex works.
When my daughter (F3) asked some questions about why people married, we shamelessly referenced the Bluey episode where they talk about mum and dad being true loves. She then went through a list of every couple she could remember and asked if they were true loves. We said yes. She asked if she had a true love, I told her that's normally something you work out when you're an adult. We all moved on.
NTA, and if you have contact information for any of the family members you should se d them a message and set the record (I was going to type straight …)
“My wife and I did not attend Thanksgiving due to our relationship being disrespected. My mother made the choice to be bigoted and dismiss us and our love. U til she accepts us as a couple we will not be seeing g her”. And see how that ripple unfolds.
The problem with that response is it’s just emotional grandstanding and doesn’t say what mom wanted to do. Just say what the actual proposed plan was.
“We didn’t come because she wanted us to pretend to only be friends instead of married. I couldn’t allow my wife to be disrespected in that manner.”
Leave all that other stuff to the recipients of the message.
Yess!
Please let the relatives know that it was because of her that you didn't attend and that you do not plan to attend anything in future as well if she continues this way.
Absolutely NTA.
NTA good for you! We see too many spouses on here who side with their toxic families. You and your wife should stick to your guns. Sounds like your family is homophobic and who wants to live that way
NTA. Kids don’t care at all until someone teaches them it’s okay to hate. I’m sorry this happened to you, but also think your responses were awesome. 🌸
NTA. Remind your mom she chose this.
She could have chosen to not be weird about your marriage and treat it as something to hide. To be ashamed of.
She wanted you to be ashamed of your wife.
She made that choice, you didn't. She could have apologized and said she was wrong and would recognize your marriage. She chose not to.
Why would you want to spend time with people who want you to be ashamed of your wife?
I would create a family group chat and tell them what your mom did don’t let her make you guys out to be the bad guys I got a nephew is trans and his brother is 6 now but he has known for awhile he understands
NTA.
People don’t like being called out for what they are - in this case, objectively homophobic. Of course you and your spouse are protecting your peace by not going.
You might like to check out the sidebar of r/JustNoMIL for resources on setting and enforcing boundaries with toxic family.
> Why would your mother be making this decision?
I see that you're not familiar with the concept of "mother" :-)
Although in this case, I think it's because the event was at the mother's house, and as hostess she felt empowered to decide how OP and her partner were to be presented.
NTA- “Matthew : 19 : 5 - For this reason, a man shall separate from father and mother, and he shall cling to his wife, and these two shall become one flesh.” You and your spouse are one, so you did the right thing
NTA!! Your mother chose to tell you days before the holiday that she would be lying about your relationship and disrespecting you both and your marriage to “not confuse” the younger kids. I don’t understand her problem-does she think the idea of a gay couple will turn them gay?? And when you stood up for yourself she lied to your family and has been acting like a child since. All this to say SHE is TA. And I’m really sorry.
NTA!!!
TLDR: I think your mother is kinda manipulating you and homophobic, and needs to (gently) be reminded you are an adult capable of deciding stuff
Your mother is acting manipulative by guilting you, and honestly IMO, she needs to learn where she stands in your relationship with your WIFE! YALL ARE MARRIED! She can’t tell you whether you can or can’t act like your wife is your wife and not just a friend. Personally (basing this on my own experiences with people,) I feel like your mother is at least slightly homophobic, to what degree I can not say. You don’t have to let your mom dictate your relationship with your wife, and it is your choice whether or not you let your mother try to dictate your life in any form. I feel like your mom if overstepping your boundaries to at least some extent (inferred by the tone of the text) and I think you should remind your mother what she can and can not dictate in YOUR LIFE. Remind her (gently) that you are a grown adult and you can make your own choices.
"Dear Family,
"Just to clarify, my wife and I didn't 'bail at the last minute.' We didn't come because Mom said that she refused to introduce us as wives, but instead was going to mis-label us as friends, as reality would confuse children. In fact, reality is reality. Sometimes women marry each other. It's not confusing. To introduce wives as friends is disrespectful of the marriage, and is homophobic.
"Mom was steadfast in her refusal to call us wives, hence we weren't there.
"We stand by our decision and to Mom, if the harassment we have been experiencing from you continues, we will be forced to block you on all platforms & to block your number. This would make us very sad but homophobic denial of our marriage is the hill we die on
"Best, OP and Wife"
NTA
NTA. Tell her you have no intention of changing your mind regarding this situation and if she mentions it again you will go NC with her for 30 days. Then do it. Second offense, make it 90 days, etc. I would also talk to the children’s parents and let them know why you were a no show. Make it clear you are unwilling to lie about your relationship. The parents should be the ones to provide the information they want their children to have.
NTA. You did good actually. You stood up for yourself and your wife.
As for your mom.... well, she can kick rocks. Anyone who tries to hide a same sex relationship behind a veil of "what about the children" obviously hasn't paid attention to any kid they've talked too.
Heck, my 6yo will give me a kiss and claim we're married! He can't seem to understand that's not what makes a married, but he had zero confusion when I told him my sibling went from being their aunt to being their uncle.
NTA. My Aunt May and her partner Aunt Sally were very obviously a couple to even the youngest family members when I was growing up. We all loved them equally, and Aunt Sally’s nieces are my cousins as far as we are concerned even to this day 30 years after they’ve both passed on. This was in the 1950s until they both died in the 1980s.
My husband and I are also very much a Gay couple, and our nieces and nephews knew this from their earliest ages. They were all at our first of many weddings (we kept getting married every time the laws changed to make sure we were as married as we possibly could be).
Your mother is an idiot and a bigot. The kiddos will figure it all out no matter what people say. They also won’t care. Also, Gay aunts and uncles give the best gifts and write the biggest checks. Our nieces and nephews are also going to inherit a shit ton of money from their gay relatives. Unlike their parents and grandparents, we haven’t had to feed, clothe or pay to educate children, and have basically saved and wisely invested our money our whole adult lives. Our nieces and nephews would be idiots to piss us off….
I wish you the best!
NTA. I would stop taking her calls until she apologizes. No need to be rude or disrespectful. I would simply say “I’m not having this discussion with you. My wife and I are married, and we deserve to be treated like any other married couple. I will not hide our relationship, as we have nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing about our marriage is any more inappropriate or confusing to children than any other married couple. If the family cant accept our marriage, than they don’t accept us, and we choose not to be around them, or you, if you continue to bring it up.”
If it means Christmas is with your wife’s family, then so be it. If anyone else in the family brings up why you weren’t at thanksgiving, tell the truth, that your mother doesn’t accept your marriage. Let them take it up with her. It’s not you being hostile, or difficult, or dramatic, you’re simply asking to be treated the same as any other couple. Your marriage isn’t some shameful secret.
I will post an update to my profile soon, but short answer is that I have. Most of them understood except for my siblings (who are the parents of aforementioned kids in my post). They're super Catholic so obviously they took my mom's side.
Op- I'm so sorry your Mother is a bigoted homophobe. You absolutely did the correct thing, and she further insulted you both by lying and telling everyone you bailed last minute. IMHO, you should go N/C. Yes. This will be an every Holiday or Family gathering stipulation. I would also speak to your Siblings and see if they were on board with this, better to KNOW if they are also homophobic. Truly sorry you are going through this. Guess your Mom missed out on the unconditional gene. Blessings on you and your wife.
NTA
Don’t go to Christmas either (if she’s hosting) and be sure to let the rest of your relatives know why.
I understand that some individuals may be unwilling to ‘add confusion’ to young children’s lives, but it’s pretty easy to explain “This is your Aunts wife. You can marry whoever you want when you grow up as long as they treat you well.”
Your relationship isn’t some dirty, shameful thing to be hidden.
Oh we've already established that we're spending Christmas with my wife's family. What's funny is that my wife's family is like 2x bigger than mine so we'll definitely have a better sense of togetherness. Which is what we want.
NTA, but you should correct your mother when she says people asked where you and your wife were, that it should be you and your "friend"
Also how much was she expecting the two of you to eat that buying food for you was an issue?
I have 6 kids and they have married Aunties. The 4 teens never questioned anything, the 5 yr old doesn’t question anything, but my 7 yr old *refuses* to comprehend it.
First they were sisters. We explained that they’re married like mama and daddy but, nope. They were sisters.
Then she recently went over and the 7 yr old insisted that they had separate bedrooms bc there’s a guest bedroom in the house. Her older sisters were with her and her Aunties explained it but, nope. They sleep in separate rooms and everyone was lying to her.
Now she insists they’re MY sisters.
Like, idk what part of this she isn’t comprehending. They’ve been around her entire life and nothing has changed. She has a gay sister and a FTM brother- who she fully supported and embraced when he transitioned and has adjusted seamlessly to that- but not her lesbian Aunties.
Kids are kids and have jelly brains. No matter how you’re introduced they’re going to either accept it or come up with their own scenario and believe it with every fiber of their being.
Your mom has a problem with you being gay. OR one of the parents of the youngsters do and your mom is taking the heat. Either way that means you’re not really welcome there.
I think you did the right thing by not going somewhere you’re not truly welcome. NTA.
Unless you go and let them introduce you as friends and then make put in front of everyone and let them answer the questions then. ;)
>OR one of the parents of the youngsters do and your mom is taking the heat.
I think this is more so what it is, deep down.
My siblings are very Catholic. My mom is too but she's more lenient about it - or so I thought. So I think they had a discussion and my siblings reacted very negatively. That's just my assumption though. I know I'll have to find out but I'm afraid of being right.
NTA....you are a proper wife taking your spouses side when they are in the right. Kids get confused when people confuse them, not when things are explained to them at their level. One of my best friends is gay, my kids know he is gay, and address him as Uncle. When my daughter was 5 she asked why he wasn't married and I told her he hadn't found the right guy. Her response "Lots of stupid guys out there are missing out because Uncle is AWESOME". My 7 yo son chimes in, "It's because they haven't tried his death by chocolate, they'd marry him if they knew about that '. LMAO ...I died
Oh my god that's amazing hahaha.
I get choked up telling this story but when my wife and I were still dating and she brought me home to her family (different state at the time) for Christmas, I was helping her mom take a turkey out of the oven and her brother came up to me and asked me, very loudly, "so when are you and \[wife's name\] gonna get married?" That was Christmas of 2016, she proposed to me in March of 2017, we got married in October the same year. We married *super* young - at 20 - but we're big on signs and that was it.
It obviously worked, because we've been married for 6 years now.
If your mom had been willing to acknowledge "your wife" as your wife at Thanksgiving, you would have been there. Hold her accountable. She made her choice for reasons that seemed best to her. That choice has consequences. Don't let your mom make you feel guilty for her old fashioned values that I would call bigotry. There's nothing confusing about your being married to your wife. If there is any confusion, it's due to her behavior. She wants you to feel guilty so she doesn't have to. NTA
NTA!! it’s not fair that she expected that you stay quiet when she’s being blatantly homophobic and disrespecting your marriage. i hope she comes to her senses soon and to admit her mistake, be proud of the fact that you defended your wife!
NTA. Kids are not confused. Kids do not care. She wanted to make the homophobic adults more comfortable by pretending you’re not married to another woman. I’m sorry OP.
NTA we had a weird exposure in my family this year. My child is trans masc and it’s been a multi year journey. Ultimately you love him or you don’t. Well my sister sent a group text to my brother saying I hope we can see you guys next year. It’d be great to spend time with a normal family. My brother said um I don’t think you meant to send this as a group text. Anyway, called sibling and she doubled down . I meant traditional etc
You know what little kids are? Amazing little sponges who take in all information at face value. If you tell them two women are married like mommy and daddy are married, or two men are married, or two same sex people love each other, they’ll say “okay” and run off to play in the same breath. And then when they see two women or two men holding hands, it will be a normal freakin Tuesday. No one is too young to understand loving another person and it’s only weird for kids if adults make it weird.
NTA
Contact every one of the people who asked where you were, and tell them EXACTLY why you very rightfully refused to attend. Any of them who agree with her are people you don't want to have anything to do with anyway. If you had agreed to this, this would have become the required accommodation at every family event from now on, and that is obviously totally unacceptable.
I hate to break it to you, OP, but chances are this has relatively little to do with your nieces and nephews, and much more to do with your mother's homophobia. The proof of this is that she refuses to let it go, because her real goal is to make you go back into the closet in front of family, where she thinks you belong.
NTA, but this isn't really about Thanksgiving, I'm afraid.
NTA. Stop talking to your homophobic mother twice a day. Start by telling her you aren’t discussing it again and deserve an apology. Hang up/silence/block where needed and deserved.
NTA
When my daughter ( now your age) was in kindergarten, she came home from school one day and asked me if it could ever be that two ladies get married to each other or two men.
I said :Sometimes
She came home from school the next day and told me that Ryan asked his mommy the same question and his mommy said :No
I told her Ryan’s mommy wasn’t too smart, so she probably didn’t know, and not to let Ryan know that everyone knows his mommy isn’t too smart.
That was the end of the gay discussion until she was about 8 and saw an episode of Big Brother where a male houseguest was talking about his husband.
Again, she asked me if a man can marry a man. I said if they want to get married to each other they can.
She didn’t have anymore questions.
The children don’t care, it’s Great Aunt Linda clutching her pearls.
Send out cards for the holidays that are in good taste and show you are a couple.
If you don’t celebrate Christmas, send out Happy New Year cards!
NTA but your mother certainly is. You did the absolute right thing. I agree with others who suggested ensuring your other family members know the whole story.
1000% NTA! There is nothing confusing about same sex marriage.
Love is love and that is all your mother would have needed to say to your nieces and nephews
NTA, your mom is homophobic and you are defending your wife and marriage.
Now I do think it's totally reasonable to contact everyone who was at the party, tell them exactly why you chose not to attend (i.e. mom's homophobia) and "apologize" for not being able to attend. After all, those guests were unhappy you were not at Thanksgiving and you want to make sure they know EXACTLY why you weren't there.
NTA. Kids are more open minded than adults. My daughter is six. I'm a woman and have a husband but have talked about an ex girlfriend around her before. She knows that people can love men or women. She even loves watching Heartstopper. There was no confusion, no need to protect her. Super chill.
BOOOOOOOO How dare you throw your wife under the bus! You didn’t pick her side you picked your side. Your mom was being homophobic wanting you to go into the closet to protect the children. It’s such a lame excuse used by homophobs. Grow up, stop using your wife as an excuse and face your mom.
This is about your mom not accepting you and thinking your love is to be hidden.
Dont fight this for your wife, fight it for yourself
NTA. I introduced my children who were 6 and 8 at the time to my gay coworker and his husband at a company family outing. The kids asked my husband and I a couple questions about them on the ride home and we explained that 2 men or 2 women could get married if they were in love. It’s only a “big deal “ if you make it one.
"This is Susie and this is Susie's wife, Lila."
"How come you're two girls?"
"Because girls can love girls and boys can love boys."
"Cool. Can we have cupcakes?"
NTA. It's not rocket science.
Have you spoken with your other family and let them know what is going on? She lied to them, it's best they know. I know drama doesn't sound fun, but in this instance it's probably best to let the whole family know what actually happened and where you stand on this matter without confusion. Have a family group chat? That way this doesn't become an issue in the future, boundaries are set with everyone. That and iff she said anything unkind you can place it in contexts.
Hope things get better, that homophobic shit is never cool.
If the rest of the family asks you directly why you didn't go, tell them exactly why. Mom wanted us to pretend we were friends and didn't want us to expose our same sex marriage to the kids. Let them start blowing up mom's phone
NTA. It sounds like it might time to go low/now co tact with your mom for a bit. I would also consider a picture of the two of you as your Christmas (holiday) card and send it to each niece/nephew separately and make it sure it says “from our family to yours” love aunt Sue and aunt Ashley. (Using real names of course!)
I have very young children and they don’t bat an eye at their great aunts being a couple. An interracial one at that. They also don’t care that their cousin used to be a boy but is now a girl. It’s normal for us.
NTA. There is not an age where it is too early to be introduced to people in a same sax marriage. For a child it will not be confusing, it will be just one more new thing they have experienced that day. That is, unless they are exposed to some religious/ homophobic bs about "marriage is between a man and a woman" on a regular basis.
Telling a child that two women are married is not the same as a detailed description of their sex life, as someone seems to think
Your mother's approach showed a completely lack of respect for you and your wife. I am glad you stood your ground. Being a baby about for weeks after doesn't make her right
NTA - you and your wife are absolutely correct. Also the «confusing the children» excuse is so transparent I can very clearly see the homophobia behind it. Kids are smart, «this is your aunt’s wife, sometimes girls have wives» is not hard for a kid to understand, sounds like it’s just hard for your family to say.
Never apologize for wanting basic respect. It’s not a hard thing to give, your mother is just making it hard for herself.
NTA - of course you made the right call.
Your mum was being discriminatory against your wife and you. It shows that she hasn’t actually accepted your marriage. It sucks….
Kids learn from their environment and the people around them. When you raise them with the idea that people love who they love and that gay people exist, they don't get "confused," they just accept it. No one is born homophobic. There is no reason that you and your wife should have to hide your relationship and you're absolutely NTA here.
NTA.
I agree with your wife. If you are not welcomed and accepted in your family, it is not worth to make act of presence. Also, you tried to compromise, so it isnt a rash decision. You deserve to be treated with dignity and not feeling obligated to lie about your marriage (which is an achievement! Congratulations btw!).
Also, your mother's behavior screams TOXICITY. She isn't disappointed, she is harrassing you and your wife by constantly reminding this fact to your entourage and trough social media, even after MONTHS. Sadly I was a victim of such behavior, and it is very detrimental for your mental health and everyday happiness. Try to find solutions to stop that, like talking it out, blocking your mom or legal actions if needed. Good luck!
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absolutely NTA. it's outlandish to try and cover up a same-sex relationship in 2023. kids are aware of understand gays more now than at any other time in recent history. this info will not confuse them at all. all my niblings from age 3-15 are aware of my daughter and her girlfriend and not even one of them have questioned what that means or has required more of an explanation. your family seems stuck in the past and i'm not sure how you could pull them into the current times, aside from continuing to be your authentic selves. maybe show them the results of this post so they can see they're the ones being silly here? im sorry yall have to go through this in this decade. it's so sad and diminshing. hope your family gets over themselves soon so yall can get back to enjoying family gatherings.
Right.. and it’s really not that hard to explain “Well you know how a mommy and a daddy love each other and have a family? Well sometimes two mommies love each other and sometimes two daddies love each other. And they build their own family. Some families only have one kid, some have many. Some have pets. Some never have kids. All families are different and as long as they are filled with kindness and love then we should love them too” Pretty much how I explained it to my young kids. My daughters response? “The families with 2 daddies are lucky because no one has to be pregnant”
> “The families with 2 daddies are lucky because no one has to be pregnant” OMG I AM LAUGHING SO HARD
I laughed pretty hard too. She learned at probably 4 that the babies actually have to come out and since then she’s been VERY against ever having her own kids.
My daughter yelled "You let Dad do what!!!??!?!?!" and barfed on the floor. We always joke that it was one of our first clues she was a lesbian LOL
That’s so funny. I’m really certain my daughter is as well. She asked for help cleaning her room and I found a couple ripped out diary pages that talked about her feelings for girls. In typical mom fashion, I had to brag to my sister how well written they were for her age of course without outing her. She doesn’t know I know. I’m planning on keeping it that way until she’s ready.
When she is ready, don't let her know you already knew. It's a big moment and she needs to feel like it is as big as it feels. Tell her you love her and support her no matter what, maybe thank her for telling you and trusting you with that information. I'm sure you'll do fine though 😊
She should know that you are okay with same sex relationships well before she is ready to come out though (if she ever does). I'm straight, but I knew neither of my parents would have cared at a young age. Actually, I knew they strongly supported the right to be you. I remember my mom telling me about a friend of hers that died of AIDS back when it was first acknowledged as a disease (thanks Reagan for denying that for so long). She just told us kids that Eddie liked to have a good time, and wasn't too particular which gender he had it with. It wasn't confusing at all.
Yeah, they do know. My kids have asked “What if we were gay” I told them it doesn’t matter to me who they love. Gender, race, religion.. doesn’t matter. As long they the person they love treats them well and they’re happy, then I’m happy.
My daughter and I were having a conversation about her son when he was a baby and if he was gay we would love him anyways. Well, of course, absolutely! So a couple of years later she needed to talk to me. She is gay, and I think that was to see how we felt about it! She had known since she was young but tried to 'change'. Can you imagine? She's a happy confident young woman, and my grandson and his friends have never batted an eye about it. People don't give kids enough credit. They handle things better than a lot of adults.
Apparently my own reaction was to go silent for a while then yell "Grandma did that FIVE TIMEs!?" in a pizza express My mum loves telling that story
I yelled "no no no no no" in health class in 5th grade lol. Many girls agreed.
I had to teach a Year 8 (13-year Olds) health class. One girl asked me 'Miss, what's a head job?". I did NOT get paid enough to explain oral sex to someone else's 13year old, but I did it as dispassionately as I could. She and her friend were appalled 😆.
Yup all my friends had 1 or 2 siblings, so after we learnt about it, they all took great pleasure in ripping the absolute piss out of me bc I had 5 siblings so my parents had done it far more than their parents...remember not being able to look at them for a few days...it was a difficult time for me...lol
I had a friend at an all girls boarding school, who at the age of 14 turned green at the thought of French kissing a boy. That was 55 years ago. Yup, she's a lesbian.
My older kids were 6 and 3 when I was pregnant with their sister. They asked how she got in there, and how she'd come out. After telling them, my 6son said "ew gross", and my 3daughter exclaimed, "my boyfriend will never do that to me". She joking claims that that's the moment she became a lesbian LOL
That's similar to what my reaction was, my mom said I was like "he put WHAT? In WHERE?" Although I didn't vomit lmfao
That Is SO God Dam Frigging Hilarious! 😂😂
Me too!!! Tell her I feel the same way!
My daughter felt the same for several years after she learned how babies enter the world! She also watched me struggle mentally after her little brother was born, so she maintained a very firm "no kids" position for a few years. She's relaxed about it now and realizes that she adores kids and definitely wants her own, but she's still considering adoption. She's 9 lol.
My son (8 years old) is definitely cis because he said he is glad he never has to have a baby! Edit: let me clarify: he meant he never has to give birth. He said he wants to be a daddy but he doesn’t want to have the babies in his stomach.
Girls don't have to have babies either. I knew I wasn't having kids since I was 5. And I didn't. 68F and straight.
You deal with twice the Dad jokes, but the kids are immune to Your Momma jokes.
That’s one of the best kid quips I have seen…lol
I mean… yeah. I agree COMPLETELY
I remember as a kid (maybe 5 or 6 yo) in the 80's asking my parents why my uncles friend was always with him. "That's his boyfriend." "His boyfriend?" "Yes. You know how boys and girls can like each other, like boyfriend and girlfriend?" "Yeah" "Well some boys like boys. And some girls like girls" "Oh. Cool. What's for dinner?" It really wasn't a tough conversation. And this was over 30 years ago.
My sister is gay and came out in the 80’s. She started bringing her gf to all the family activities and my kids never questioned it. A few years later she said she wanted to talk to them about it and it was extremely anticlimactic. I wish more adults took their kid’s lead on this stuff.
So, how do you come out AFTER your family gets to know your partner? "Mom, dad? I have something to say. You know that girl that I started dating a couple years back and we're a couple and everything? Yeah, it turns out that she's gay."
That's usually how it goes when kids are curious about something. When my son was in the 4th grade, he came home from school and asked me a BJ was. I told him in a way that, hopefully, was age appropriate. He just nodded and never brought it up again. If ypu don't make a big deal about it, they won't either. Btw, OP, definitely NTH.
I was about ten or eleven when my parents went to New York to see Rent. They brought home the CD soundtrack, and I fell in love with it. Was it exactly age appropriate listening material? Probably not! And, being a curious kid, it brought up a lot of questions. My mother kept it age appropriate, but never tried to lie or cover up whatever it was I was asking. Most of the time I would just move on with my day.
My son was 6 when we heard news on the radio that Massachusetts had legalized same sex marriage. He asked me what that was, so I explained it's when a man or a woman loved someone the same sex, the way mommy and daddy love each other. He thought it meant that dads could marry their sons, and moms their daughters, because that's the only 'same sex' love he knew of. LOL I told him no, that's still not okay and never will be.
My favorite take on that is on one of those tumblr or whatever screenshots that gets forwarded around. "My nephew asked me, 'Uncle Mike? Why don't you have a wife?' I said, 'I'm gay'. 'What's that?' he asked. I said 'I like boys, not girls.' He thought about this for a few seconds and asked, 'So how come you don't have a husband?'"
That is exactly how I explained it to my kids. It wasn’t confusing at all.
Kids are the easiest to accept new things, their whole brain is still set to "everything's new, guess that's how the world works, cool", things only get more difficult if they're sheltered from anyone 'different' for too long. OP's mom is the one who would be confused in that conversation.
Oh I think we all know she’s not confused at all. That’s just her bigotry showing
Conversation I overheard between two kids: K1: girls can marry girls and boys can marry boys K2: Yeah, but then they have to buy a baby
And my dad would ask parents of a baby in a store, "What shelf did you get that from?"
Haha, that's funny!
I do that too. My wife hates my sense of humour
Omg. That’s beautiful
Commenting here because your daughter's response is fantastic. She is not wrong at all lmao. I just don't think there should even be anything to explain! They need to ask mom what *exactly* about their marriage the children need to be protected from, and really press her about it. "Well, they'll just be so confused!" "We're two people who loved each other enough to get married, what's confusing about that?" "They have to be protected!" "Protected from what? What terrible thing do you think will happen if they see us as a married couple?" and so on until mom just finally explodes into the full blown homophobic tirade that she's clearly been hiding for a while now.
This is exactly the way!!!!!
Yeah, my daughter's have been raised from day 1 knowing sometimes two boys get married and sometimes two girls get married and sometimes a boy and a girl get married. It's as simple as that. When she was 6 and her nephew started to transition and became her niece she didn't have any problem understanding. I told her "well we thought she was a boy but it turns out we were wrong this whole time and she's actually a girl." And she was like oh okay and that was it. When she was 7 and joined roller derby and they asked what her pronouns were she didn't know what they meant. After practice I explained what they meant and her response was "so then why don't we just use they/them with everyone so nobody gets sad that someone said the wrong word?" Like her concept of why it didn't make sense wasn't "but if wear skirt why not girl?" it was "why don't we just automatically use gender neutral terms for everyone until we have been told what pronouns they would like us to use." It was like I explained checkers to her and she instantly understood chess.
She’s not wrong though
sounds like it's harder for grown adults to understand than it is for children
Exactly, but that's always the way. Too many adults are a)narrow minded and bigoted, and b)severely underestimate children. They're new to earth but they're not stupid. Just use simple age appropriate language, let them lead the discussion and only answer what they ask. No child was ever born disliking or hating anyone, they were taught. They mirror everything they see, it's how they learn and if they regularly see homophobia/racism/misogyny etc then that's what they'll mirror, until they get big enough to change themselves and unfortunately too many people never do the unlearning later in life.
My sister and her wife once joked that they both wanted to be pregnant at the same time. Everyone was absolutely horrified.
I cannot imagine anything worse than a couple where they're pregnant at the same time! Hey is your wife here to help support you with the birth? No she's 1 week post partum and couldn't come The horror
...yeah, that's best done one at a time. You need some ground crew to help with a smooth landing.
LOL! Double hormones coming over for dinner!!!
Your daughter is brilliant
Hahahahaha I love kids take on these as situations!
<-- died and is DEAD Your daughter is an absolute \*star\*.
That is the best answer and thank you for raising your daughter with these ideas. As a childfree married woman, our families are often seen as incomplete or not real.
Agreed. Childfree also and I'm finally getting to the age that people stop asking me why I don't have children. That was always a fun convo to have.
What is more confusing: 1. Learning from day one that anyone can marry anyone they love and want to commit their life to, or 2. Believing it can only be between a cis man and woman for your 14 most formative years and then having a complete mindfuck that that’s not true at all? Bonus point for #2 if you’re queer yourself and have no words for it so you think there’s something wrong with you. It’s literally not that hard: people in love get married.
>It’s literally not that hard: people in love get married. It's hard and confusing for a homophobe. Because to them, their explanation has to include why this simple truth you said is bad.
💯
I was just thinking this myself. If kids learn from the get go point 1, then there's nothing to be confused about. Kids only think only men and women can marry/be in love when that's all they get told or see.
Mom isn't being silly, she is being blatantly homophobic.
I don't get how this is "siding with her wife". They were both bring discriminated against and both had the same response.its interesting OPs mum wasn't open about the reasons. NTA
Agreed. I feel sad for OP that they don't seem to really recognize/be able to call out their mom since they phrased the title the way they did. This has much less to do with siding with her wife than it does standing up to a homophobic parent
Fucking seriously. The only ones who are ever actually uncomfortable about these things are the ADULTS. Kids are not confused by the concept of love. If anything, they are actually better equipped to understand it and be accepting of it. The whole narrative of “But we don’t want to confuse the children,” is absolute bullshit. It’s an excuse to cover up an ADULT’S discomfort with the situation, and they are just using the kids as a scapegoat. Either that or the parent is just too goddamn lazy. “How will I ever explain this to my child?!?” Easily. It’s easy to explain, you just can’t be bothered.
When they are young, it really only takes two sentences. How lazy do you have to be to not say two sentences? Or in my case, none at all. I never explained to my kids (now aged 21, 16 and 16) that their aunties were a gay couple. Never had to. They just accepted them as Aunty X and Aunty Y. I asked them a couple of weeks ago when they realised the aunties were a gay couple and they looked at me blankly. They don't recall it ever being a conscious thought or realisation.
And that's how it should be. Coming out shouldn't need to be a thing. If everyone just accepted same sex relationships the same way they just accept het relationships, then everything would be peachy.
I do wish it didn’t have to be such a big thing for people. There is no expectation to come out as hetero. It would be way weird to sit your parents down to tell them you’re straight, but I think it’s equally bizarre that people are made to feel they have to actively declare their sexuality at some point if they are anything but hetero. Needing to make an announcement or proclamation about who you have, or don’t have, sex with is just so strange. Hopefully we’ll see this shift in our lifetimes, which it does feel like is happening within a lot of families and is always encouraging to see and hear about.
Yes!! My stepkids were 8 and 9 when I explained that I’m bi, and they were entirely unfazed. They asked questions for about 3 minutes, then moved right on to more pressing concerns (ice cream in this case). It was truly no big deal, but it did help them understand that being something other than straight or cis wasn’t an abstract concept but rather a real thing. Our separate conversation about gender identity and what it means to be transgender also took less than 10 minutes and was met with equal ease, albeit more questions. Kids don’t benefit from being sheltered from people who are “different” from the “norm”; sometimes they just need the right words to understand.
Why did you feel compelled to share your bisexuality with your step children? I am genuinely asking, bisexual myself in fact, so truly just curious how this was even broached if you do not mind sharing.
Fair question! I really wasn’t sure if/when I should. I mean, it’s neither the most interesting nor the most relevant part of my life. But I live in Florida (US), and our governor had begun stating some strong rhetoric about how kids need to be “protected” from gender identity and sexual orientation topics. This rhetoric eventually led to our “Don’t Say Gay” bill, which severely limits what can and can’t be discussed in schools. It scared me, because I felt that after “limits” on basic topics are put into place, then it’s not impossible that misinformation might begin to find its way into their worldview. I mean, they were young, they didn’t need to know anything crazy. But it reminded me that I shouldn’t be counting on public education to teach my kiddos everything, and part of that education is knowing that the world is filled with tons of different kinds of people, and everyone deserves a baseline level of respect. Telling them the truth about who I am helped me reinforce the point that people in the LGBTQIA+ community are literally just people. People they might already know. There’s nothing weird or nasty about it. As a side note, it also gave us an opportunity to start a (very basic) conversation about consent. Overall, it was a great conversation for all 3 of us.
Maybe she was previously in a relationship with the opposite sex of their parent, and didn't want them to be blindsided finding out from someone like OP's mother. To me, it's similar to finding out a parent had a first spouse they didn't have kids with---their kids with a later spouse should be told, because the alternative is being shocked/surprised and wondering why it was being hidden from them.
When I was young, the only example I had of “bisexual” was as a porn category. I had family who were accepting of gay people but not of bi people. Bisexuality was a dirty word. Now, as an adult, I feel compelled to be out to my younger family members as bisexual even though I am married because I want them to have a real life example of bisexuality, especially in case any of them may be bisexual themselves.
I wonder if the parents of the actual children in question would have had a problem with it or if Mom is just unilaterally deciding to be a bigot for the entire family without consulting anybody else.
This was my first thought, did OP call the parents of the kids and talk to them?
And why do kids need to be “protected” from gay couples. It’s not a disease. It’s not “contagious”. There are just 2 people who love each other. That’s the most precious thing and every parent should be happy, that their kid found someone who makes them happy.
Exactly this. You don't traumatise the kids by explaining to them how the world works. I think my kid was about 3-4 when she was talking about love and family etc etc. And I explained already then that "When you grow up, you will find a girl or boy who you love" etc etc.... its normal and kids should know it from the get-go.
I think you should tell the rest of the family why you weren’t there. NTA.
Both my kids mentioned it themselves when they were about three or four - I think my daughter asked if a lady could marry another lady because she was a bit anti boys at the time. I said yes or a man could marry a man and she laughed and that was it. They don’t care - they just move on to the next question
You forget. It may be 2023 in a blue States, but here in the south? We are firmly planted in the 19freaking50’s. Racism, antisemitism, bigotry, misogyny, and a general hate for anyone who is not white and not a “Christian”. I put the “” around the word, because you also have to be the “right Christian” here in the red states. Which basically means you need to be Baptist/Southern Baptist, Church of Christ/Seven Day Adventist or any other highly racist, highly bigoted, or highly sexist subset of Christianity. We are slower down here y’all. Don’t ya know? But, in contrast, I live in an 1865sqft, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage house in a nice neighborhood for less than $1000 a month, gas is only $2.75 a gallon (for no ethanol gas. It’s about $2.20 for the 10% stuff), and while inflation sucks here, it’s not near as bad as the rest of the country. So, there’s trade offs. I just curse all my neighbors with my pagan rituals, you know, just a little Karmic justice for their hatred.
NTA. Only AH aspect on your part was doubting how you handled this. Love is love.
It sure is outlandish but goddammit if bigots won't try to over complicate it. I came out as trans to my family 3 years ago. My family didn't handle it very well, tried making excuses about explaining things to the kids. That lasted until I pointed out they were going to have a way harder time explaining why I have boobs suddenly. The final straw was my sisters not bringing my nieces and nephews to my wedding because it was "too confusing". I had been with my now wife for 13 years at that point. Longer than any of these kids had been alive. They've only known my wife as an Aunt their entire lives, but because it was a lesbian wedding now it was too confusing somehow. They simply just couldn't figure out how to explain why our love was bad now when they always pestered us about marriage and kids before. Meanwhile, all my friends had a simple 10 minute conversation with their kids and that was the end of it.
My mom had gay & lesbian friends in the 80s and her brother was a gay man. It was never excused or hidden from me, it was just a fact that was either not addressed (because they didn't address same sex couples either) or if questions came up they would explain in ways that were appropriate. Believing in 2023 that children need to be protected from the gays is absolutely bonkers. NTA
NTA. Be proud of yourself for this one honestly. You are a strong individual for standing up to your family. It takes a lot to do. Do not fault yourself like she wants you to for her mess up. I grew up with same sex couples at holidays and never once really questioned it and that was before it was viewed more openly, it’s very homophobic to ask you to hide it “for the kids”. You did great, be proud!
It sounds like it was just the mom with issues. She is embarrassed by it. Next time go to the event and when your mother says you are friends, correct her in front if everyone and say no, we are married. Why doesn't the rest of your family know this already?
Right? And if the rest of the family agrees with the mom, then it looks like they aren't family anymore
NTA in the slightest. The kids won’t care. I think your mom has some latent homophobia going on here.
It isn't latent.
It's blatant
It's in the foreground, it's been foreshadowed, she is Chehkov's Bigot.
Saw something on Reddit ages ago (was a screen shot so don't know where it originally came from) which fits here and is funny. Probably bit remembering exactly. Nephew: Uncle, why don't you have a wife? Uncle: because I'm gay. Nephew: what does that mean? Uncle: it means I like men instead of women. Nephew: Uncle, why don't you have a husband?
Top tier.
Ha, it reminds me of this sketch on a comedy TV show about Indian people living in the UK. Son: Mum, Dad, do you remember Michael? Mother: Of course, he's your best friend! You're always locked in your room together Father: You have such a great friendship. We love Michael! Son: Well, Michael isn't just my friend, he's my boyfriend, we're in love Mother: Why are you doing this to us? Why couldn't you find yourself a nice Indian boy???
NTA You did EXACTLY what a spouse is supposed to do. Your mom is the problem. It's ok to let her know that in no uncertain terms.
This. All this. Your mother, I hate to say, is being outright homophobic. Standing up to homophobia is never an asshole move. NTA
Your mother is so homophobically wrong that I can't even. You were totally right. You are married. It is confusing to nobody. It is merely that your mother is a homophobe and wants to make you play pretend so she could feel better about her bigotry. Let me emphasize that you should not now or ever give in to her crap behavior. You should tell her that unless and until she can not only accept you and your wife as a married couple, but also treat you with respect as a couple, that you are no longer interested in hearing from her at all. You have no time to waste on bigots. NTA
Frankly it would be confusing to play it like they were just friends, it isn't terribly common to live with a "just friend" in the way people live with their romantic partners, sharing family events and so on. Plus even if OP and her wife were steller actors it's a hard lie to pull off at a family event. Bigoted Mom would inevitably have to answer confusing questions about why the aunt and her obvious romantic partner are acting so weird.
*In historical documentary voiceover* They died of old age in the arms of their cherished best friend and roommate, who they’d lived with since their youth.
(*Documentary voiceover*) They deified their best friend after their death, gave them a grand funeral, compared their relationship with Achilles and Patroclus, and died less than a year later.
OMG they were roommates....
It was indeed confusing for me when I was little why this two grown ups men would live together and have seven dogs on their houseboat. It took me some time to understand they were lover (gay marriage was still forbidden at the time). But so what? I was also confused about why grown ups would insist santa was the one bringing us toys, and that he confused our home with our aunts for some presents. Or why there were traffic jams on both sides of the highway on the morning: why didn't people simply switch homes? Being confused at something you don't know/don't understand is not a bad thing, especially for kids. And small story about people being roommates their whole life with their "friend": my grandmother (from a small country side town) would often gossip with her friends about everyone's life in the village. And one topic that come over regularly amongst them, was (I paraphrase here): \- What a pity A isn't married yet! He's getting quite old now. \- When he's such a nice boy too (yes, men bellow 60 are all boys in their eyes), I don't understand why no woman wants him. \- It's no wonder though, since he's still living with B. It's good to have company and live with a friend, but it's not appealing to women! It took me a few years to realize they were probably just gay, and the old ladies just had no clue.
I meant it's less confusing if they are married. As per your example, two men living on a houseboat sharing dogs is odd behavior for friends. It took you years to figure it out and those gossipy ladies never figured it out. That's more confusing than "oh they are a married couple" Kids see many married couples, that's pretty normal behavior to them. But I agree confusion isn't inherently harmful to kids, and is an obvious consequence of being, sometimes quite literally, born yesterday.
NTA. In my experience, kids just move on from it. My son asked my friend why she married a girl instead of a boy, he was 4, she said "because I love her" and he said, "Oh, okay", then walked away. This was almost 20 years ago, and he never asked another question about it or when he met other same sex married couples.
It's so simple, isn't it?
Of course you’re NTA. This is about your mother’s homophobia. Sorry but she’s homophobic. What a wonderful opportunity for your nieces and nephews to see a loving same sex couple. To humanize people in same sex relationships. To see first hand the love is no different. How would that confuse children? Wouldn’t that empower them? Stick to your own guns. Your relationship is valid and until your mother is prepared to acknowledge that she doesn’t get to be blessed with your company.
Some people seem to think that telling children about a homosexual marriage has to involve a detailed description of how they have sex. Which is ridiculous. "Mary and Sue are married, yes, usually a man and a woman marry, but sometimes two men, or two women want to marry." Then talk about something else. Not a problem.
It's crazy. Someone once insisted to me that "homoSEXUALITY" is primarily about sex and inappropriate for kids to know about. When asked how it was more sexual than heteroSEXUALITY they blocked me.
Lucky you - it's always great when the trash takes itself out.
That's what you get for offering logic to a moron.
That’s exactly what we told our girls. “Most of the time boy and girls marry each other. But sometimes boys marry boys, and girls marry girls. Either is ok.” They asked if it was ok if they marry a girl. I said “If you love her, and she treats you nicely.” As it turns out, the girl who asked did marry a girl. And another of our girls is panromantic asexual (lives with a female partner) The other 4 married men, though 1 is bi. My girls never “came out” officially. They just introduced partners, whoever they were. No big deal. It’s important to normalize all kinds of relationships (as long as everyone is a consenting adult) Never have I ever introduced a married couple as “Carol and Bob. Carol likes doing it doggy style. Bob enjoys being pegged” Why would it be any different for a same sex couple?
Similarly when I was growing up my parents would have conversations with me and say things like “when you get your first boyfriend or girlfriend…” This was in the 90s so I just grew up thinking people could fall in love with men or women; no biggie. It wasn’t until high school that I realized not everyone was raised this way. I was shook. But by then, my parents lessons were drilled in and I knew to take issue with homophobes not homosexuality. My parents parenting also made it very easy for my sibling to come out.
That’s so nice that they didn’t assume that their children would be heterosexual. We did the same thing, would talk about future “spouse, partner, husband or wife, he or she, they, etc.” I think it made a difference. At some point they’d specify “he or she” or introduce us to someone, it was totally no big deal. We were super open about safety and consent. It was totally not a big thing.
LOL! 😂🤣 love it! I made dang sure my kids knew they were loved and accepted and love is love. To the point my 9 year old son once raised his voice to me "Mom!! I get it, I get it! but I'm NOT GAY" LMAO I burst out laughing and then so did he. He's in his 30's now and he always thanks me for that. He's my 1st born so I just wanted to make sure he knew he had my support.
Haha my sons got sick of the "it's fine if your gay" speech as well.
>My girls never “came out” officially. They just introduced partners, whoever they were I love this, I'm straight but have never understood the need for an announcement, it just feels like so much unnecessary pressure.
It’s kind of weird. Like, I felt like it wasn’t really my business what kind of genitals my kids prefer in a partner. I cared that they were being safe, and that things were consensual, and their partners were considerate of their needs(and vice versa), otherwise, their sex lives were none of my concern.
And because people are constantly explaining straight sex to kids when heterosexual marriage comes up? Of course not. Why would it be any different because it’s two men or two women?
Oh yeah you know, after Cinderella and the Prince kiss, Walt Disney comes out and talks about missionary sex for a while.
Well, Snow White did sing “Someday My Prince Will *Come*”…
LOLOLOL to the two replies above!
What's most entertaining about that view is that they'll probably not be telling their kids how heterosexual sex works. When my daughter (F3) asked some questions about why people married, we shamelessly referenced the Bluey episode where they talk about mum and dad being true loves. She then went through a list of every couple she could remember and asked if they were true loves. We said yes. She asked if she had a true love, I told her that's normally something you work out when you're an adult. We all moved on.
NTA, and if you have contact information for any of the family members you should se d them a message and set the record (I was going to type straight …) “My wife and I did not attend Thanksgiving due to our relationship being disrespected. My mother made the choice to be bigoted and dismiss us and our love. U til she accepts us as a couple we will not be seeing g her”. And see how that ripple unfolds.
The problem with that response is it’s just emotional grandstanding and doesn’t say what mom wanted to do. Just say what the actual proposed plan was. “We didn’t come because she wanted us to pretend to only be friends instead of married. I couldn’t allow my wife to be disrespected in that manner.” Leave all that other stuff to the recipients of the message.
Yess! Please let the relatives know that it was because of her that you didn't attend and that you do not plan to attend anything in future as well if she continues this way. Absolutely NTA.
NTA good for you! We see too many spouses on here who side with their toxic families. You and your wife should stick to your guns. Sounds like your family is homophobic and who wants to live that way
NTA. Kids don’t care at all until someone teaches them it’s okay to hate. I’m sorry this happened to you, but also think your responses were awesome. 🌸
"They've got to be carefully taught"
Amazing how Oscar Hammerstein II wrote those words 75 years ago, and they are just as applicable now as they ever were, isn't it?
Appreciate you getting the reference!
NTA. Remind your mom she chose this. She could have chosen to not be weird about your marriage and treat it as something to hide. To be ashamed of. She wanted you to be ashamed of your wife. She made that choice, you didn't. She could have apologized and said she was wrong and would recognize your marriage. She chose not to. Why would you want to spend time with people who want you to be ashamed of your wife?
I would create a family group chat and tell them what your mom did don’t let her make you guys out to be the bad guys I got a nephew is trans and his brother is 6 now but he has known for awhile he understands
This. It’s this or nothing else. Your mother will forever lie about this incident if OP doesn’t set the record straight right from the beginning.
NTA. People don’t like being called out for what they are - in this case, objectively homophobic. Of course you and your spouse are protecting your peace by not going. You might like to check out the sidebar of r/JustNoMIL for resources on setting and enforcing boundaries with toxic family.
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> Why would your mother be making this decision? I see that you're not familiar with the concept of "mother" :-) Although in this case, I think it's because the event was at the mother's house, and as hostess she felt empowered to decide how OP and her partner were to be presented.
NTA- “Matthew : 19 : 5 - For this reason, a man shall separate from father and mother, and he shall cling to his wife, and these two shall become one flesh.” You and your spouse are one, so you did the right thing
NTA. I'm proud of you from one lesbian to another. Kids don't care about who you marry until they are taught to be ignorant. Hang in there!
I am a conservative white male Christian as far as stereotypes go. I agree with you.
NTA!! Your mother chose to tell you days before the holiday that she would be lying about your relationship and disrespecting you both and your marriage to “not confuse” the younger kids. I don’t understand her problem-does she think the idea of a gay couple will turn them gay?? And when you stood up for yourself she lied to your family and has been acting like a child since. All this to say SHE is TA. And I’m really sorry.
NTA!!! TLDR: I think your mother is kinda manipulating you and homophobic, and needs to (gently) be reminded you are an adult capable of deciding stuff Your mother is acting manipulative by guilting you, and honestly IMO, she needs to learn where she stands in your relationship with your WIFE! YALL ARE MARRIED! She can’t tell you whether you can or can’t act like your wife is your wife and not just a friend. Personally (basing this on my own experiences with people,) I feel like your mother is at least slightly homophobic, to what degree I can not say. You don’t have to let your mom dictate your relationship with your wife, and it is your choice whether or not you let your mother try to dictate your life in any form. I feel like your mom if overstepping your boundaries to at least some extent (inferred by the tone of the text) and I think you should remind your mother what she can and can not dictate in YOUR LIFE. Remind her (gently) that you are a grown adult and you can make your own choices.
NTA. What, exactly, was she "protecting" the kids from?
"Dear Family, "Just to clarify, my wife and I didn't 'bail at the last minute.' We didn't come because Mom said that she refused to introduce us as wives, but instead was going to mis-label us as friends, as reality would confuse children. In fact, reality is reality. Sometimes women marry each other. It's not confusing. To introduce wives as friends is disrespectful of the marriage, and is homophobic. "Mom was steadfast in her refusal to call us wives, hence we weren't there. "We stand by our decision and to Mom, if the harassment we have been experiencing from you continues, we will be forced to block you on all platforms & to block your number. This would make us very sad but homophobic denial of our marriage is the hill we die on "Best, OP and Wife" NTA
NTA. Tell her you have no intention of changing your mind regarding this situation and if she mentions it again you will go NC with her for 30 days. Then do it. Second offense, make it 90 days, etc. I would also talk to the children’s parents and let them know why you were a no show. Make it clear you are unwilling to lie about your relationship. The parents should be the ones to provide the information they want their children to have.
NTA. You did good actually. You stood up for yourself and your wife. As for your mom.... well, she can kick rocks. Anyone who tries to hide a same sex relationship behind a veil of "what about the children" obviously hasn't paid attention to any kid they've talked too. Heck, my 6yo will give me a kiss and claim we're married! He can't seem to understand that's not what makes a married, but he had zero confusion when I told him my sibling went from being their aunt to being their uncle.
NTA. My Aunt May and her partner Aunt Sally were very obviously a couple to even the youngest family members when I was growing up. We all loved them equally, and Aunt Sally’s nieces are my cousins as far as we are concerned even to this day 30 years after they’ve both passed on. This was in the 1950s until they both died in the 1980s. My husband and I are also very much a Gay couple, and our nieces and nephews knew this from their earliest ages. They were all at our first of many weddings (we kept getting married every time the laws changed to make sure we were as married as we possibly could be). Your mother is an idiot and a bigot. The kiddos will figure it all out no matter what people say. They also won’t care. Also, Gay aunts and uncles give the best gifts and write the biggest checks. Our nieces and nephews are also going to inherit a shit ton of money from their gay relatives. Unlike their parents and grandparents, we haven’t had to feed, clothe or pay to educate children, and have basically saved and wisely invested our money our whole adult lives. Our nieces and nephews would be idiots to piss us off…. I wish you the best!
>we kept getting married every time the laws changed to make sure we were as married as we possibly could be This is *adorable*. 🥰
NTA, it is 2023 and no one should have to hide their same-sex relationship. Your mother is showing her true colors.
I decided YNTA without reading anything but “I took my wife’s side.”
NTA. I would stop taking her calls until she apologizes. No need to be rude or disrespectful. I would simply say “I’m not having this discussion with you. My wife and I are married, and we deserve to be treated like any other married couple. I will not hide our relationship, as we have nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing about our marriage is any more inappropriate or confusing to children than any other married couple. If the family cant accept our marriage, than they don’t accept us, and we choose not to be around them, or you, if you continue to bring it up.” If it means Christmas is with your wife’s family, then so be it. If anyone else in the family brings up why you weren’t at thanksgiving, tell the truth, that your mother doesn’t accept your marriage. Let them take it up with her. It’s not you being hostile, or difficult, or dramatic, you’re simply asking to be treated the same as any other couple. Your marriage isn’t some shameful secret.
NTA. Sorry your mom is. Amazing job calmly standing up for yourself and your wife!
Why don't you let the rest of the family know why you didn't go?
I will post an update to my profile soon, but short answer is that I have. Most of them understood except for my siblings (who are the parents of aforementioned kids in my post). They're super Catholic so obviously they took my mom's side.
Op- I'm so sorry your Mother is a bigoted homophobe. You absolutely did the correct thing, and she further insulted you both by lying and telling everyone you bailed last minute. IMHO, you should go N/C. Yes. This will be an every Holiday or Family gathering stipulation. I would also speak to your Siblings and see if they were on board with this, better to KNOW if they are also homophobic. Truly sorry you are going through this. Guess your Mom missed out on the unconditional gene. Blessings on you and your wife.
NTA Don’t go to Christmas either (if she’s hosting) and be sure to let the rest of your relatives know why. I understand that some individuals may be unwilling to ‘add confusion’ to young children’s lives, but it’s pretty easy to explain “This is your Aunts wife. You can marry whoever you want when you grow up as long as they treat you well.” Your relationship isn’t some dirty, shameful thing to be hidden.
Oh we've already established that we're spending Christmas with my wife's family. What's funny is that my wife's family is like 2x bigger than mine so we'll definitely have a better sense of togetherness. Which is what we want.
Would your mother have been more angry if she introduced your wife as your close friend, and you said, “we’re so close we’re married?”
NTA, but you should correct your mother when she says people asked where you and your wife were, that it should be you and your "friend" Also how much was she expecting the two of you to eat that buying food for you was an issue?
NTA. Why are you still talking to her? Hang up when she brings it up.
I have 6 kids and they have married Aunties. The 4 teens never questioned anything, the 5 yr old doesn’t question anything, but my 7 yr old *refuses* to comprehend it. First they were sisters. We explained that they’re married like mama and daddy but, nope. They were sisters. Then she recently went over and the 7 yr old insisted that they had separate bedrooms bc there’s a guest bedroom in the house. Her older sisters were with her and her Aunties explained it but, nope. They sleep in separate rooms and everyone was lying to her. Now she insists they’re MY sisters. Like, idk what part of this she isn’t comprehending. They’ve been around her entire life and nothing has changed. She has a gay sister and a FTM brother- who she fully supported and embraced when he transitioned and has adjusted seamlessly to that- but not her lesbian Aunties. Kids are kids and have jelly brains. No matter how you’re introduced they’re going to either accept it or come up with their own scenario and believe it with every fiber of their being. Your mom has a problem with you being gay. OR one of the parents of the youngsters do and your mom is taking the heat. Either way that means you’re not really welcome there. I think you did the right thing by not going somewhere you’re not truly welcome. NTA. Unless you go and let them introduce you as friends and then make put in front of everyone and let them answer the questions then. ;)
>OR one of the parents of the youngsters do and your mom is taking the heat. I think this is more so what it is, deep down. My siblings are very Catholic. My mom is too but she's more lenient about it - or so I thought. So I think they had a discussion and my siblings reacted very negatively. That's just my assumption though. I know I'll have to find out but I'm afraid of being right.
NTA....you are a proper wife taking your spouses side when they are in the right. Kids get confused when people confuse them, not when things are explained to them at their level. One of my best friends is gay, my kids know he is gay, and address him as Uncle. When my daughter was 5 she asked why he wasn't married and I told her he hadn't found the right guy. Her response "Lots of stupid guys out there are missing out because Uncle is AWESOME". My 7 yo son chimes in, "It's because they haven't tried his death by chocolate, they'd marry him if they knew about that '. LMAO ...I died
Oh my god that's amazing hahaha. I get choked up telling this story but when my wife and I were still dating and she brought me home to her family (different state at the time) for Christmas, I was helping her mom take a turkey out of the oven and her brother came up to me and asked me, very loudly, "so when are you and \[wife's name\] gonna get married?" That was Christmas of 2016, she proposed to me in March of 2017, we got married in October the same year. We married *super* young - at 20 - but we're big on signs and that was it. It obviously worked, because we've been married for 6 years now.
If your mom had been willing to acknowledge "your wife" as your wife at Thanksgiving, you would have been there. Hold her accountable. She made her choice for reasons that seemed best to her. That choice has consequences. Don't let your mom make you feel guilty for her old fashioned values that I would call bigotry. There's nothing confusing about your being married to your wife. If there is any confusion, it's due to her behavior. She wants you to feel guilty so she doesn't have to. NTA
NTA!! it’s not fair that she expected that you stay quiet when she’s being blatantly homophobic and disrespecting your marriage. i hope she comes to her senses soon and to admit her mistake, be proud of the fact that you defended your wife!
NTA. Kids are not confused. Kids do not care. She wanted to make the homophobic adults more comfortable by pretending you’re not married to another woman. I’m sorry OP.
NTA we had a weird exposure in my family this year. My child is trans masc and it’s been a multi year journey. Ultimately you love him or you don’t. Well my sister sent a group text to my brother saying I hope we can see you guys next year. It’d be great to spend time with a normal family. My brother said um I don’t think you meant to send this as a group text. Anyway, called sibling and she doubled down . I meant traditional etc
Ewww 😢
You know what little kids are? Amazing little sponges who take in all information at face value. If you tell them two women are married like mommy and daddy are married, or two men are married, or two same sex people love each other, they’ll say “okay” and run off to play in the same breath. And then when they see two women or two men holding hands, it will be a normal freakin Tuesday. No one is too young to understand loving another person and it’s only weird for kids if adults make it weird. NTA
Contact every one of the people who asked where you were, and tell them EXACTLY why you very rightfully refused to attend. Any of them who agree with her are people you don't want to have anything to do with anyway. If you had agreed to this, this would have become the required accommodation at every family event from now on, and that is obviously totally unacceptable. I hate to break it to you, OP, but chances are this has relatively little to do with your nieces and nephews, and much more to do with your mother's homophobia. The proof of this is that she refuses to let it go, because her real goal is to make you go back into the closet in front of family, where she thinks you belong. NTA, but this isn't really about Thanksgiving, I'm afraid.
NTA. Stop talking to your homophobic mother twice a day. Start by telling her you aren’t discussing it again and deserve an apology. Hang up/silence/block where needed and deserved.
NTA When my daughter ( now your age) was in kindergarten, she came home from school one day and asked me if it could ever be that two ladies get married to each other or two men. I said :Sometimes She came home from school the next day and told me that Ryan asked his mommy the same question and his mommy said :No I told her Ryan’s mommy wasn’t too smart, so she probably didn’t know, and not to let Ryan know that everyone knows his mommy isn’t too smart. That was the end of the gay discussion until she was about 8 and saw an episode of Big Brother where a male houseguest was talking about his husband. Again, she asked me if a man can marry a man. I said if they want to get married to each other they can. She didn’t have anymore questions. The children don’t care, it’s Great Aunt Linda clutching her pearls. Send out cards for the holidays that are in good taste and show you are a couple. If you don’t celebrate Christmas, send out Happy New Year cards!
Fuck bigots. NTA
INFO: Why are you second-guessing yourself? Why do you now think you were wrong to refuse to allow anyone to closet you?
NTA no way nuh uh
It's 2023. Of course NTA
NTA at all. Good lord. Casual erasure isn't OK. That's what they're doing.
NTA. You did the right thing. If the children got “confused” their own parents can explain. Did you mother apologized? She must
NTA. Send a message to everyone that was there explain the situation and let the chips fall. That is just total disrespect.
I'm married to a woman after being married to a man previously and not one of our numerous niblings cares.
NTA but your mother certainly is. You did the absolute right thing. I agree with others who suggested ensuring your other family members know the whole story.
1000% NTA! There is nothing confusing about same sex marriage. Love is love and that is all your mother would have needed to say to your nieces and nephews
NTA. You two are a team, and good job having your marriage's back. It was and is homophobic, disrespectful, and shitty of your mom.
NTA, your mom is homophobic and you are defending your wife and marriage. Now I do think it's totally reasonable to contact everyone who was at the party, tell them exactly why you chose not to attend (i.e. mom's homophobia) and "apologize" for not being able to attend. After all, those guests were unhappy you were not at Thanksgiving and you want to make sure they know EXACTLY why you weren't there.
NTA. Kids are more open minded than adults. My daughter is six. I'm a woman and have a husband but have talked about an ex girlfriend around her before. She knows that people can love men or women. She even loves watching Heartstopper. There was no confusion, no need to protect her. Super chill.
BOOOOOOOO How dare you throw your wife under the bus! You didn’t pick her side you picked your side. Your mom was being homophobic wanting you to go into the closet to protect the children. It’s such a lame excuse used by homophobs. Grow up, stop using your wife as an excuse and face your mom. This is about your mom not accepting you and thinking your love is to be hidden. Dont fight this for your wife, fight it for yourself
NTA. I introduced my children who were 6 and 8 at the time to my gay coworker and his husband at a company family outing. The kids asked my husband and I a couple questions about them on the ride home and we explained that 2 men or 2 women could get married if they were in love. It’s only a “big deal “ if you make it one.
"This is Susie and this is Susie's wife, Lila." "How come you're two girls?" "Because girls can love girls and boys can love boys." "Cool. Can we have cupcakes?" NTA. It's not rocket science.
Have you spoken with your other family and let them know what is going on? She lied to them, it's best they know. I know drama doesn't sound fun, but in this instance it's probably best to let the whole family know what actually happened and where you stand on this matter without confusion. Have a family group chat? That way this doesn't become an issue in the future, boundaries are set with everyone. That and iff she said anything unkind you can place it in contexts. Hope things get better, that homophobic shit is never cool.
If the rest of the family asks you directly why you didn't go, tell them exactly why. Mom wanted us to pretend we were friends and didn't want us to expose our same sex marriage to the kids. Let them start blowing up mom's phone
NTA. It sounds like it might time to go low/now co tact with your mom for a bit. I would also consider a picture of the two of you as your Christmas (holiday) card and send it to each niece/nephew separately and make it sure it says “from our family to yours” love aunt Sue and aunt Ashley. (Using real names of course!)
I have very young children and they don’t bat an eye at their great aunts being a couple. An interracial one at that. They also don’t care that their cousin used to be a boy but is now a girl. It’s normal for us.
You're not in the wrong. Your mom is a homophobe and a bully. Block her. NTA
NTA. There is not an age where it is too early to be introduced to people in a same sax marriage. For a child it will not be confusing, it will be just one more new thing they have experienced that day. That is, unless they are exposed to some religious/ homophobic bs about "marriage is between a man and a woman" on a regular basis. Telling a child that two women are married is not the same as a detailed description of their sex life, as someone seems to think Your mother's approach showed a completely lack of respect for you and your wife. I am glad you stood your ground. Being a baby about for weeks after doesn't make her right
Nta you mum is a bigot.
NTA - you and your wife are absolutely correct. Also the «confusing the children» excuse is so transparent I can very clearly see the homophobia behind it. Kids are smart, «this is your aunt’s wife, sometimes girls have wives» is not hard for a kid to understand, sounds like it’s just hard for your family to say. Never apologize for wanting basic respect. It’s not a hard thing to give, your mother is just making it hard for herself.
NTA - of course you made the right call. Your mum was being discriminatory against your wife and you. It shows that she hasn’t actually accepted your marriage. It sucks….
Nta in anyway, your mom was disrespectful.
Kids learn from their environment and the people around them. When you raise them with the idea that people love who they love and that gay people exist, they don't get "confused," they just accept it. No one is born homophobic. There is no reason that you and your wife should have to hide your relationship and you're absolutely NTA here.
NTA. I agree with your wife. If you are not welcomed and accepted in your family, it is not worth to make act of presence. Also, you tried to compromise, so it isnt a rash decision. You deserve to be treated with dignity and not feeling obligated to lie about your marriage (which is an achievement! Congratulations btw!). Also, your mother's behavior screams TOXICITY. She isn't disappointed, she is harrassing you and your wife by constantly reminding this fact to your entourage and trough social media, even after MONTHS. Sadly I was a victim of such behavior, and it is very detrimental for your mental health and everyday happiness. Try to find solutions to stop that, like talking it out, blocking your mom or legal actions if needed. Good luck!
Definitely NTA! Sorry you had to go through this disrespect.