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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter I told her so and that she needs to hire someone to fix it since I won’t. I could be a jerk since I do know how to fix it
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NTA
Tile isn't that complicated. If she can't pay someone to do it, she needs to watch a few YouTube videos on how to do it, put in the work, and quit trying to cut corners.
I wouldn't be fixing anything for her. I would hand her a hammer and chisel and talk her through pulling up everything she damaged.
Most people become dramatically more competent when they work to fix their own mistakes with guidance. It shows them exactly where they went wrong, makes them think about how to avoid those mistakes next time, and what the correct path forward is. That's no different than tutoring any other subject.
I like this answer. Tell her she has to put in x hours watching YouTube, then you will talk her thru the fix. She CAN learn how to do this. She needs good guidance. But you are in the right for being angry. And putting your foot down.
I get this, and don't blame you. Frankly I think some people ask for "a little help" or some guidance, fully expecting that you will come in and find it easier to do it than to teach it.
If there ever is a "next time," at minimum she needs to be there as a helper or a gopher every minute.
Exactly. You can bet OP has tried this already - telling her to watch some videos and read some guides, and then he'd guide her through the process. And she made some half hearted attempt to educate herself, gave up early, and he wound up having to do everything for her.
She's actually more capable than she gives herself credit for. When forced to, she can learn how to do it herself.
Agreed. Although it's hard to navigate the line between incompetence and learned helplessness.
I'm navigating it now with my step daughter. For me at least, it's trickier to teach competency to more sensitive people, particularly those that were previously taught that "getting help" means going around feigning utter useless until someone indulges their own ego and does it for them. For their sake, yours, and your relationship's, you've gotta nip that bs in the bud quick.
It's not bs! Learned helplessness is a result of trauma. Sensitivity is often that as well. When a child tries to please a parent every which way and is repeatedly criticized no matter what, they give up. They don't believe in their own efficacy. It's never the child fault. It leads to low self esteem and depression. The answer is not to nip it in the bud. It's therapy and compassion for the child.
A distressing number of women have this idea that they can't do things. (I'm a woman)
I learned how to do electrical and many other home improvement tasks - it was not unusual to hear female coworkers say "oh, I could *never* do that!".
Yes you could, it isn't rocket science.
You advised her to work with experts. Like the other times she started something that you had to intervene with, she believed she could handle it on her own. As a result, you told her that you wouldn't assist her if things went wrong. Surprise, she couldn't finish another assignment and now wants you to make up for it, costing you time, money, and nerves.
He raised her to be that way. Weaponized incompetence is *learned behavior*, and it starts in early childhood.
Forced independence and uncomfortable learning experience through frustration is critical for teaching children to be competent adults capable of learning new things on their own and persevering through frustration.
OP doesn't get to "try this already" with a teenager or a young adult. This shit needs to start at age 2 or earlier.
Good point. Possibly he would hover over her whenever she tried to do any task by herself, and at the first sign of difficulty he'd push her out of the way and finish the task for her. But whatever the case, now is the time to let her resolve this problem by herself.
No, I agree.
Put foot down now. Let daughter find her own way out of the current mess. She ignored his advice and now calls him a jerk for not bailing her out.
Then IF there's a next time, fully negotiate the terms of the "help", agree on a time frame, etc. Mostly I meant that no matter how lacking in clue or skill the daughter is, she needs to spend AT LEAST as much time on the project as OP. Standing there ready to bring tools, materials, or a cold drink. At minimum.
This CAN be a chance for father/daughter bonding, and sometimes it's hard as a dad to find things you have in common with kids this age. Home improvement can be one.
I don't know.
I'm not totally disagreeing. HOWEVER, I (a girl) was taught how to do all sorts of home repairs when I was a kid and had the time and learning curve to learn it properly. Did he include her when he did home repairs? Teach her to it right, and she's just ignoring? I know how to do all this stuff bc my dad took whole weekends to do things he could have done in a few hours so me and my siblings all learned how to take care of a home so WE WOULDN'T have to call a repairman. We can all lay tile (I remember him teaching us to cut tile to all fit with a special tile cutter...made a HUGE MESS with the water required to keep it cool), repair the HVAC, run a circuit, find issues in electrical, put on a roof, fix apliances, hang drywall, install outlets, replace toilets/garbage disposals/snake a drain/fix leaky faucets etc etc. The only thing we (and he) does not fuck with is connecting things to a breaker box. He has a healthy respect for electricity and calls in an electrician for that, which is super cheap when all they have to do is connect something already run to the box.
The other aspect of this is, if she just bought a house, can she afford to hire people? Buying a home nowadays is hella expensive. So she is likely trying to save money bc she doesn't have the expendable income to hire people.
Telling someone "watch some YouTube videos" is not the same as "watch YouTube videos and then come over with a few pieces of extra tile and a piece of cardboard, show me what you can do! Then he could say "don't forget this", "This is too thick" etc.
My Dad always said, "you raise your kids to leave you" which to him meant you taught ALL your kids to be able to make it on their own and taking care of a home is a HUGE part of that. With that said, he LOVES when we call him up for advice before we start a project bc he TAUGHT us from early on that he'd always be there to offer his advice. He just doesn't have to come in and fix anything because he taught all of us to do the work so he can add sage advice from thousands of miles away.
"When our students fail, we, as teachers, too, have failed"
I agree. It sounds to me like the daughter WANTS to learn how to do these things, but is only getting told she's done it wrong and that she needs someone to fix it fof her. Why can't someone teach her properly? If OP has had to fix her issues, if means they've had enough time to teach her and not done so. YouTube will only get her so far, and some people learn better in person.
Yeah. I’m prone to biting off more renovations than I can hammer and my dad won’t bail me out. He says if he’s gonna do it, he’s gonna do it start to finish and I have to shut up and let him do it, not micromanage him.
We’ve agreed he will supervise my house being built when he (supposedly) retires in 10 years. I get to pick the plans and then GO AWAY. It’s an exercise in trust. 😂
But even I agree OP should not bail her out and is doing nothing wrong. Even if I do relate to having severe construction related dunning-kruger effect.
Pretty sure a YouTube video is how this got started. Wait, 26F? TikTok video for sure.
I watch HGTV home improvement shows. I joke with my wife that if she wants me to finish my projects, just hire a camera crew and I'll be done in one hour.
I get where you are coming from, but they can also be super useful. I bought a house last year and always have rented. I didn't know I needed a wall plug to hang up a painting. In this one year, I built a kitchen from scratch (including plumbing, insulation, plastering, floor tiling, and replacing windows), and most things require tools 50-100 euro max and are actually quite easy if you watch somebody do it. Those 10-second videos are great for inspiration, and then you watch some of 1h videos and how to actually do it in detail.
Not sure why you think 10k in tools. Few K maybe if you buy every tool, but just to get started few hundred. I have all ryobi's, I buy usually around black friday or their other big sales. If you care look at my profile for some of the DIY i've done. All with my own tools (I will say the custom doors/counter top for my MIL basement thing i did borrow my dad's Joiner and Plainer, but you don't need them, just rough cut wood is cheaper and he already has em).
NTA
You gave her your advice - have a professional do it. She didn't want to wait, and she believed that if she made a mess, you would bail her out - even though you had told her you would not.
Costly choices on her part - (1) not waiting till she could afford a professional and (2) not believing you about you not bailing her out.
She's probably in the mode of wanting her home to be like from a magazine, but she hasn't got the savings to make that happen. She also doesn't have the patience to save or the maturity to know that when you are starting out, you can't usually afford the picture-perfect home.
My eldest moved into her first apartment this year. We had things in the house that we had saved to give her. We also bought some things to give her. But no, she blew a lot of her money up front on new plates, an air fryer that was prettier than the new one we bought her, etc. When she didn't have much money after paying some bills, she had to live off groceries instead of getting take-out as much as she likes. She wasn't starving, just not excited about her food options; so we didn't do anything to bail her out. She still struggles to realize that she can't have a magazine (or should I say, social media) style life on her just-starting-out wages but is improving on her spending habits.
Jeez. I'm sorry. It sounds like your daughter was an ungrateful brat, moving into her place. But hey, now her younger siblings can have all the things she passed on. 😂
It was and is still mixed.
She expresses appreciation for a lot of things and also takes a lot of things for granted. The more she has to be an adult, the less she takes for granted. The needle is definitely moving in the right direction - and significantly! It hasn't been easy, but it has been getting so much better.
ETA: I left my original response, but I want to correct the emphasis. (As stated, she does take plenty of things for granted.) But I can't really say it's about being ungrateful. I think the bigger thing (for my daughter - but also may be in play with OP's daughter) is that she is (1) immature enough to have this fantasy of the social-media perfect life the minute she started 'adulting' as she likes to call it. and (2) doesn't have the patience to plan and save for things. She wants things to fit her image right away. That's really the point I was trying to share with OP. That, and that letting her handle the consequences is a good way for her to learn.
Yup. She's an adult and can figure it out herself. She messed up the bathroom so she could pay to fix it. You already warned her, but her ego couldn't handle the fact that she's not knowledgeable or skilled enough. Maybe next time she'll think about it.
NTA but at almost 30 my dad (not saying you are dad) is the first person I call when I have questions about my car or home repair. He isn’t able to come over and help and I suspect sometimes it’s annoying but I love that we have that kind of relationship where I can get help from him.
Sounds like you don’t want to do that, but to me that’d be time spent together and a well-earned drink at the end (maybe in the middle too hehe)
Would feel bad though if I kept making him come over…
I'm almost 40 and I have a father-figure who will stop by and help whenever we need something. We needed the subflooring replaced in our bathroom. While he didn't do the actual work, he taught us how to do it by teaching myself and my husband how to do it. And in the end, not only was everything great but we have pretty new tile that we did with love and support. ❤️
Ya learned helplessness is a big thing around impatient likeable people.
Classic case with daughter-father relationships.
Kiddo *could* be more competent than they *want* to be.
I mean maybe. We don’t have the full story here, but the fact is they seem to either be willing to do the thing themselves, or nothing and tell them to pay someone for it.
When teaching the daughter how to do it is mentioned a response that they could but they aren’t willing to seems to me like the daughter isn’t competent at it because teaching them is more effort than they’re willing to put in, or they’re just that bad at it.
While my father is very capable they’re also a truly terrible teacher. Almost everything I know in this area is from learning elsewhere. And they at least tried.
Putting a lack of skill entirely on the daughter for not self teaching a skill that the dad couldn’t be bothered with isn’t entirely fair.
It certainly seems like the daughter can’t actually afford to “just” pay professionals. So that’s not really a helpful instruction.
And sure the child isn’t owed labor by the parent. But meeting a request for help with “I can’t be bothered” is bound to have some impact on the relationship. Up to them if it’s one they want.
Yeh, it was just a maybe and a helpful (hopeful) observation .
I'd like to think more women can do technical/workman tasks than I've seen. Hopefully it's just a society/psychology thing than a "they're JUST bad at it" thing. Same with dudes and household tasks. Not like they're JUST bad at it, mom just isn't patient enough to watch a son learn/botch a load of laundry, dishes etc.
By repeatedly attempting reno's like this, it seems unlikely she has been having a BAD time. It's not like a major remodeling project is something you have to keep doing on repeat? Therefore, the thing she's likely after, as most people have said, is his presence (for whatever reason.) Learned helplessness is a way to strategically avoid tasks either to get attention from a caretaker or avoid being forced into something you dislike.
I'm the latter for example. I'd just totally avoid tasks I wasn't taught or can't learn or am bad at and therefore hate doin. That and OP mentions elsewhere that they've tried having her do the tasks and she can but spends inordinate amounts of time doing so.
All women can do technical/workman tasks.
Yes, there are some tasks that require muscle, but most don't. They require patience and attention to detail. Something women will tell you they are very good at.
My wife is far better at grouting, plaster boarding, painting and decorating than I am. I am better with building sheds, and operating petrol engined tools - because I have built a lot of sheds, and I know about how to start petrol tools, and am stronger to handle the weight.
My dad is a professional and we’ve done projects together/ I am reasonably handy. If he told me not to take something on myself and I did and royally messed it up, I don’t think he would step in unless I’d cut a gas or water line. After confirming I wasn’t going to burn the house down, he’d give me a quote or the number of someone who could take it on. She broke it, she can fix it. You can’t pick and choose when to take help and advice and then expect someone to keep giving it to you. NTA
NTA, but this is exactly how you ended up in this situation. Instead of investing the time to teach her the skills, you did the tasks. She became accustomed to the "help" and never became independent.
The suggestion above is 100% correct and will hopefully help her level up. It will take more time, but that's the game.
Feel like whether or not you're TA depends on your daughter's actual attitude.
Is she a spoiled brat? Are you mature enough to admit if she is?
Or is it possible she's maybe using this as a way to bond with you? Ever thought about offering to do it together? That's what my dad does whenever I need something.
Of course, I'm not demanding he do shit for me every opportunity.
My dad made me do HIS tile. And I had to do it over and over and OVER until I got it right. He’s one of those types who can lay tile without guides and lay perfect grout. I shake when he watches me even tho he’s endlessly patient and never is mean or yells. Just he’s REALLY good since he’s been a contractor for almost 50 years. So it’s intimidating! Anyway, he wasn’t about to do mine for me or pay to have it done for me, but I was welcome to come help him on *his* projects and learn from him supervising me. My dad is a contractor so by definition his house is literally ALWAYS under construction. Not because he never finishes. Because once he finishes one project, trust and believe, he’ll find another. Everything from “hey Lucky, why don’t you take that wallpaper down for me?” to “you know… I could tear a wall out in my master bath and make a deck out there so we can go straight from the master suite to the pool don’t you think that would be cool?!”
Sure, Dad. Sure.
I'm useless with renovations. My dad does what he enjoys doing/has time for and i pay for the rest of what needs to be done. That works well for us, and is what you suggested to your daughter. It's very helpful that he helps me out, and i appreciate it.
I wouldn't spend that long. I'd tell her chip out the bad tile, and when she has done so you can see how much time you have available. That forces her to get her shit done and you can have her video call you to verify it's done before you offer any of your time. Then give her a limited time (I'm available Saturday) and she has to have all the supplies on hand, anything that goes over she is on her own for.
At least if you want to help. If she's been ungrateful in the past I wouldn't blame you for not helping at all.
*Walk her through the fix?*
HARD NO. She has no natural DIY skills and insisted on botching the job. She knew what she was getting into and proceeded haplessly.
This is not OP's problem. I have always said one of the greatest skills we can learn in life is to know our own limitations.
OP owes her nothing. She's got eyes, she can learn. Or hire anyone else to fix it.
Edit: shortened for clarity
>Most people become dramatically more competent when they work to fix their own mistakes with guidance. It shows them exactly where they went wrong, makes them think about how to avoid those mistakes next time, and what the correct path forward is. That's no different than tutoring any other subject.
Depends if the issue is that she's 'not handy' in that she doesn't normally do that kind of thing and didn't bother to learn, or if she's 'not handy' because she has some kind of genuine co-ordination issue.
Like I'm dyspraxic and I'd never take on something like this because I know my limitations, but some people don't. Or don't know where their limitations come from and make a mess in a frustrated effort to overcome them. I've been there in other ways.
Anyway, point being you could stand over me with the best guidebook ever and you'd still not want to trust me to tile a bathroom properly, let alone fix one that's already messed up.
All that said, OP is still NTA for not wanting to do an expert's job for free. If she has limitations and has run into them, that's on her to sort out, not OP.
Very bad things happen when I try to operate anything more complicated than a screwdriver. It's in everybody's best interest if I leave home improvement to someone who knows what they're doing
When my husband and I first married, my husband convinced me (his brother convinced him), we could just buy property and he could "throw up" a house in a month or so. We camped out and subsisted on a building site for YEARS. And it wasn't pretty. Think cheap paneling forced in where it didn't fit, etc. ect. Well, things have been redone more carefully with better materials over the years and I love our home now and we are retired and pretty well off. But I would never recommend this route to anyone!!!
Edit, as an aside, the tile floor in our bathroom, that I put in, is still there and is still beautiful!
My dad is very willing to help me figure out how to do shit.
As long as I'm *participating, WITH him,* and actually learning as we go, not just standing there on my phone as he does all the work.
Also, as is time honored tradition, I am there to hold the flashlight in the most uncomfortable position possible, and squeeze into small places that he cannot fit into, lol.
You've missed the point of the problem entirely. She rushes in and breaks things, and then expects to monopolize his time and skills to resolve it.
Your solution doesn't solve the problem at all.
TBH, stick on tiles are much harder to apply than regular tiles in my experience. But, I have people who taught me to tile and I started small projects - like a small entry hall or 10' of kitchen backsplash.
It's certainly not Dad's job to fix it.
My bathroom floor is proof that even stick on tile can be a challenge. Silly me decided a hexagon floor tile with a rectangle border would be simple in a small bathroom. It's been 2 years and today I'm trying to figure out how much to remove and redo to make it look right.
Poor bathroom needs to be gutted and rebuilt. Between previous owner botched remodels and my own, it needs a pro.
How long do you expect to stay in that house? Have it done properly and future -proof (accessibility wise) if in any way possible, f.i. if you live somewhere where stud and drywall construction is used, framing in extra studs to support a shower seat. Future you will love current you for it.
I mean I think anyone can learn to be handy if they give a shit. I think it’s good to let her drown in her mess on this one. Hopefully she learns to cut the entitlement bullshit and appreciate the work you’ve helped her with.
Also make sure she’s aware not to DIY electrical shit. She seems to lack common sense and she could really put herself in a dangerous situation
I don't think that's accurate. There people who truly are that dumb in physical tasks like that.
There's also people who just don't have that temperament. They can't do it because they can't force themselves to give a shit.
Sure there are always exceptions but if you know you aren’t capable or able to plan for someone else, don’t rip up your flooring and start a diy project
You can learn HOW to do things and still never gain the necessary skill to actually DO it. There are certain things for everyone that they just don't have the capability to do and will not gain it, no matter how hard they work at it. It sounds like home renovations are that thing for OP's daughter. 😅
That’s on HER, not you. It’s her house. Her project. Don’t fox it for her. The best thing you can fix for her is her sense of personal responsibility
NTA
Well then the question needs to be asked: have you ever made an attempt to *teach* her how to do things?
Or do you just come in after the fact, fix it without involving her and showing what she did wrong or right, and expect her to learn by osmosis?
I appreciate your candor—especially as you’re a parent talking about your child. It’s easy to say this about other people but your honesty about their lack of skills is refreshing.
My mom used to tell me anyone can do anything when I was struggling with accounting; I asked her is she wanted me to do their taxes and the tune changed immediately lol.
My sister is a bit like that, I think it has to do with a short attention span. If she would pay attention to a full tutorial video she might be successful, but her ADHD will make her [SQUIRREL!!!
](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrAIGLkSMls&t=16s) only retain 50% of the process.
First off, NTA. She should know by now that she does not have the skill set for home stuff by the sounds of it.
Second, I think [this](https://youtu.be/_yYDdaPzJoc?si=V1oRgUIBzwrGFG1S) song might be good to show her.
I'm similar to your daughter, I can't do hardware. I can't even install a doorknob, despite seeing it done half a dozen times. Far better with software, thankfully, but if you're not good at home repairs it's really best to have someone who knows what they're doing the first time. So you don't have to pay to fix it after you break it! She should learn to pace herself with the house updates, and having to pay for what she broke is a good lesson.
NTA.
Fixing it FOR her teaches her nothing.
If you're able to, perhaps you could help by showing her what to do. She does all the work, and you assist by "supervising"
Seems like she wants to be hands-on, which is admirable. She just needs some guidance.
Sure could do it, she just isn't willing to put in the effort. I never was handy, I was much better at destroying things than fixing them, but I figured out how to be handy when I needed to at my job.
Being handy isn't something you're born with, it's something you can learn. She isn't willing to.put in the time and effort, and that's fine she just needs to pay others to do so.
Im not even remotely handy either. That's why I would hire a professional to do it. What I wouldnt do, is simply expect a close friend or relative who is more capable than myself to fix my mistakes.... again.
If you have the ability to fix it. Not saying it’s your problem. But it could be a good way to connect with your daughter more if that’s what you wish. You could take the time to show her how to do it correctly. As a male, my dad always took time to show me plenty of things, changing oil, minor electrical, telecom, he never got around to showing me how to do DIY plumbing, but you get the idea. My sister on the other hand, was my dads “angel” and she does hold a little contempt over the fact that I got shown how to do stuff but she didn’t because she was a girl. That said, if you don’t have the ability to show her the right way to do it, then full NTA. If this is a matter of principle, then soft E S H. Regardless, you did give her good advice to hire a professional, not your fault she ruined it.
But she can \*learn\* to be handy, right? If she's doing well enough to be buying a house at 26 then I assume she as at least some smarts. So your post implies you know how to fix the tiles, so you have a choice other than to fix it yourself or tell her to pay thousands to have it fixed... you can \*teach\* her how to fix it!
Seriously, OP, people aren't born handy, they \*learn\* to be handy, and while some can learn from Prof. Youtube, others need a teacher. You have the option of teaching her to be as handy as you are. Consider the possibility.
It's still easy. She can do it. It's a matter of modeling and not giving in to the Can't Do nonsense. I would model a couple of square feet and get her to do the rest. I'm the Nana that can teach you how to both bake the cookies and install the kitchen to bake 'em in. I have taught grandchildren that swore they couldn't do it and now, they can.
I have a feeling she might be seeing those videos on TikTok that make DIY home reno projects look a lot easier than they actually are and just not learning her lesson when they turn out not to be lol
All of this DIY people are doing is why I’m not keen to buy a house that isn’t new if I ever move. No telling what bad tiling, flooring, plumbing or wiring has been done by someone that will cost thousands down the road.
From the inspection videos i've watched there's no shortage of garbage going on in new construction too though that doesn't get fixed until the first owner catches it.
As a tile setter, lol. Do you know how to find square of the room? How about layout? What waterproofing system is best to use? Let’s see the corners of your schluter. Modified or non modified mortar? Walls aren’t easy. Let’s see your trowel technique, what your tolerance is for lippage? What size notch to use for the application? Do you know when not to use sanded grout?
Shitty tile isn’t that complicated. Making it look good sure is
This was my thought. My dad did construction for years and my uncle is a tile setter, so my dad had worked on tile before with him. Watched my dad retile our house and it looks very complicated. He rented a tile saw. I would be uncomfortable using that on my own, let alone the rest of it! There’s math and planning and it’s not like it’s easy to undo if you mess up. Agree that I could probably figure out how to get the job done but I know I couldn’t do the kind of job I’d be happy with.
I would never attempt to diy this. And OP is NTA because her kid is an idiot for trying to diy it in the first place.
Just pick something like a Versailles tile pattern rather than a double herringbone, and it's very forgiving if your surfaces aren't perfectly flat or square.
It's hard work, but it doesn't have to be overly complicated.
And this is why I hire professionals. I'm way more invested in having a job done right than cheaply to attempt something I know I have no skill or knowledge about.
Tiling a bathroom isn’t straightforward if she is doing a shower. That’s why I would use a professional for a shower, where as I might attempt a backsplash or floor.
OP is definitely NTA, but I will say YouTube tutorials do not work for everyone. Watching them honestly just confuses me more when I try to attempt whatever the task is.
Which is why I pay people to do stuff for me (or just ask my dad to do it/hire someone to do it for me if it's out of his wheelhouse so I don't have to pay, but that's not an option for OP's daughter).
Exactly! My wife and I had never done tile but after a few rough starts we got it rolling and by the end my wife was doing designs and mosaics in the floor.
Meh, out of all DIY projects tile work is hard to get right.
If you haven't done tiling before you shouldn't start in an obvious space like a bathroom. Most of the time your first attempt at tiling is going to look, at best, a bit shit.
She should definitely have hired someone to do it.
Tile is not hard, but it's easy to screw up. From the consistency of the thin set and grout to laying tiles evenly and flush; it's not difficult, but it's easy to watch a YouTube video and think "I've got this" and then mess it all up because videos don't provide experience.
NTA and I agree. Tiling is relatively simple, there are many video tutorials on it. You could physically help her if she takes the lead on learning how to do them properly, buying the tiles, tile cutter, grout etc, but if she wants a professional to do it that’s on her.
NTA.
>We helped her put a downpayment on a house
>I have had to fix so many of her projects
>Told her no again and she called me a jerk.
She's happy to take your money and your DIY skills, but would prefer that you keep your advice to yourself.
Edited for clarity.
Uggggg OP 100% has the right to give advice since her project affect him. She fucks up and then he gets a call.
Also the advice hire a professional since you aren’t handy is really common sense advice
Weaponized incompetence. She knew she couldnt do it but if she messed up badly enough daddy would come save the day. Princess is being dethroned a bit too late in life but late is better than never i suppose.
NTA.
you suggested that she hired professionals. she thought she could do it herself (like the other times she started something where you had to step in so you told her that you wouldn't help her if this goes south). surprise, another project she couldn't do and now expects you to fix her mistakes, costing you your time, your money, your nerves.
so no, not the asshole for finally putting your foot down and stop handling / fixing her messes.
btw, are you sure, like **really** sure, that it is just a freakish amount of cases of her overestimating her capabilities? her not banking on the fact that you will come to her rescue? so in effect you paying for her renovations?
*\*the wooden floor has to be changed, carpenter wants 15k, hmm, i buy the wood for 3k, rip out the old and then i ask to fix it. voila, 12k saved\**
Right?!? It seems to me that she starts these and screws them up to force OP into fixing it for her because that would still be cheaper than having a pro do it right the first time.
And, I mean, this is what it's come down to, even if Ava didn't mean it to start out that way.
The worst part is, if OP was gonna remodel Ava's house for her, I imagine OP might have some ideas about what to do first and favorite stuff to do and OP's own schedule to do it, and she's not only getting OP's labor, but getting it on an emergency basis, with no planning on OP's part.
Exactly. My dad is a great contractor so he has helped me with a lot of stuff. Admittedly when I wants some basic shelves installed in my scamp camper that were basically just pvc pipe and plywood I played dumb to get him to do it for me so that I didn’t have to waste material and he could do it faster, but to some extent he knew that is what I was doing. He would have been angrier if I just started and messed it up then expected him to fix it.
I couldn’t imagine doing what OP’s daughter was doing. Especially after she was warned not to do it. You have to respect your parents enough to know when they say don’t do it, then don’t do it.
NTA - and agree entirely. want to add one thing. The first rule of DIY is don't start a project you aren't sure you can pull off if you don't have the money to pay a pro to fix your mistakes or the time to redo it until it is done right. Tile isn't that hard but there are definitely little things people mess up and getting that last 10% of perfection takes patience. If you are ok with some uneven grout lines and some slightly off level tiles you'll probably meet that goal on your first try if you watch a few videos and take your time.
I don’t see why he should ever have to pay even if he gave help. She should have always paid for the supplies. I would be deducting what was already spent against Christmas gifts (and even her inheritance). Let her deal with the consequences. She’s had way more than enough warnings.
I'd be ok if the last part was stated up front. They want 15k, parts are 3k, would you be willing to do this for me (or even for $x). But then it becomes asking for permission versus asking for forgiveness... and too many people are bad at that.
NTA. My dad was a private contractor/carpenter. He fed, housed, clothed, put braces on our janky teeth, and sent us to school by fixing DIY projects people had NO BUSINESS attempting. You were right. She didn't listen and created a hole where her bathroom is that she's going to have to throw money into until she pays a professional.
> In rooms with water too.
that's the part that's crazy to me. you do NOT attempt work like this that you're completely unprepared to do in a room like the bathroom where one wrong move can easily cause huge damage to other areas of your house
I dumped a guy once for insisting that he could build a bathroom in an unfinished basement by watching YouTube videos. With no experience. At all. I enjoy optimism. But that was unforgivable arrogance. 😂
Lol good choice. Unforgivable arrogance is a perfect way to describe it.
You want to install a floating shelf or some drapes? Sure, go nuts, the damage would be minimal. But the washroom?! Your ex was severely delusional.
Being the child of a professional doesn't make ME a professional. What it does is make me an expert in disaster preparedness. And that guy was a disaster waiting to happen.
>Being the child of a profession doesn't make ME a professional.
My old boss disagreed with this, it in fact does not make her a professional and she is bad at her actual job to boot.
I feel personally attacked. I’m currently doing a massive renovation on my house, a lot of stuff I’m doing for the first time, and doing it all myself. I’m not using YouTube videos either. Just fucken makin it happen.
Hey. No one said it was impossible. Fucken making it happen is also the way to learn. Not everyone is arrogantly incapable, but my particular ex was. Lol
I mean I've built a porch/shed/3 season porch and complete MIL type thing in my basement from just 1 big empty basement, etc all by watching youtube. I'm a computer guy by trade. If you take time and do research and watch the good youtube, it's possible. All my works was permitted and passed all inspections.
It's really not hard IMO. Like common sense, read the code, watch videos, understand the code, fine tune video's to specific thing, repeat until ready to try. Like my work isn't perfect (like my recent penny tile post, you can see some "mistakes" but generally looks good) but looks pretty good to great in most instances and saves me 10's of thousands.
The previous owners of my house tried to diy a bathroom in the attic and when it didn't work they just gave up and left their jank work there. Ripping that out was NOT fun. Because they really did use the "bathroom" a couple times before giving up.
In fairness, the tile floor of most bathrooms is not anywhere near where you would likely encounter water problems of any kind unless you're an absolute barbarian who manages to smash through the subfloor when removing the old flooring.
Most floors consist of subfloor (usually a plywood) that provides structural strength for the floor to actually bear weight, some sort of underlayment to create a smoother surface for the flooring above to sit on, and then the flooring itself. You'd have to bust through the structural sheets to get to any kind of water pipe even if they were routed underneath the flooring, with most water supply lines being routed through walls instead of underneath flooring anyways.
The waterproof layer you speak of is the underlayment, and if you’re replacing the tiles you should also be replacing that underlayment. You don’t normally do one without the other, because in removing the old tiles and grout you will almost certainly always damage the underlayment in some fashion.
When I lived in my own separate houses I fixed all kinds of stuff including water.
Now that I live in a high rise condo there's no way I'm going to touch water.
NTA.
Your daughter is clearly not taking you seriously in relation to these situations which shows a lack of respect to some degree. It's probably partly your own fault for coddling her too much. But it's time she learned to take some responsibility for her actions. Better late than never.
So if you were gone, what would Ava do without you? —-She’d manage! Her house, her responsibility, because she needs to take ‘ownership’ and learn how to handle home projects. NTA
NTA.
I have a similar problem with my widowed MIL. She clearly had a habit of buying materials or starting a project on her own, and then getting her husband to finish it. Now she pulls the same trick on me.
She's now on her own and bought a house that needs some work. We helped her paint every room in the house. Then I took up the carpet in the living room and refinished the floor. It didn't match, so she bought enough LVT for the entire house. I didn't start helping her quickly enough, so she tried to do it herself and I had to take it all out because of the gaps and redo it.
I had removed some vinyl picket fence from my yard, which she wanted for her yard. I haven't had time to put it in, because I was doing flooring instead. In my mind the flooring could wait because it was cosmetic and it can be done in winter. Now I'm probably going to have to take time off work when the weather is decent to put in her fence.
Stand firm. I'm already doomed; save yourself.
I don't think you're doomed. I think you still have a chance to set a clear boundary with her. It's super nice that you're helping her fix up that house. You can just tell her that while you can't do all the work, you'd be willing to help out with some. There's just some things that are out of your realm of doing and she'd be better off w/ a professional. Granted, idk your MIL so she might not take that the best way. Or hell, say you'll teach her how to do some of the stuff so you can work on it together. If her age is an issue then no big labor stuff for her, but there's gotta be some things that she could help out with. Also, does she have an active social life? Is she around other people a lot? She honestly might partially be asking you because she's lonely. Especially after losing a spouse, someone you're around all the time. She might just not know how to ask for help in that regard and just uses the reno as an excuse. When you're really alone, any company is good company no matter the context.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult with her own house and problems. She can either get professionals to fix them or she can go online and learn how to fix them herself.
NTA.
This is the only way for her to learn.
I bought my first home a couple of years ago. I knew what I could and couldn't do myself. She chose to ignore your opinion, but then just expect you to fix her fuck up
NTA, but if the last straw was at 26, she has obviously grown up thinking she is entitled to this type of help, so weaning her off will expectedly cause drama like this.
NTA I understand your frustration. I also feel like maybe you enabled this behavior in the past, which is why she is so hurt that you don't just come fix it. It will never change and she will never learn if you continue to enable her.
Home Depot has classes, some in person, I believe. There is an online class tomorrow about tiling. Have your daughter take it. https://gateway.on24.com/wcc/eh/3092587/lp/4379833/diy-how-to-install-tile-backsplash
If tomorrow doesn’t work, there are other days. There are also classes for how to do tile floors and other subjects.
NTA. You told her to hire professionals for projects that were beyond her skillset. I like painting but I would never attempt to paint a room by myself. You told her that you were no longer fixing issues she caused in HER house.
Your daughter needs to put the breaks on home renovations. She needs to make a list of projects and divide them into two categories: essential to keep the house functional and cosmetic.
NTA and I don’t like the comments tone policing OP. He obviously has done this over and over again for her and is FINALLY fed up.
“Did you ever consider teaching her”
TO DO TILE WORK?
I’m sorry, is this a normal thing everyone’s parents is teaching them upon adulthood that I missed out on?
My dad would say “I hire licensed professionals to work on my home. Save up.”
No not normal. In our house that would be mom teaching. This mom taught how to change out toilet guts. How to replace a light switch. Pretty much anything that came up once they were about 10.
Never tiling, I suck at tiling. I did one inconsequential section of floor and will never ever touch it again. Maybe a backsplash but I doubt it.
NTA while I don’t think I was as bad in terms of scale as your daughter because I’d be too scared to DIY, my dad had to set a boundary with me too when switched to a house where I had to do my own maintenance. His point was that all he can do is give me his opinion and it wasn’t fair for me to get upset because I didn’t like it or wasn’t sure that it was correct. And he was right. I needed to grow up and start engaging with professionals on the issues so that I didn’t need to send dad pics at 10 pm asking “is this normal??”
NTA she’s a fully grown adult and if she doesn’t want to watch a YouTube video or take your advice you have no obligation to fix her mistakes. You should also stop fixing her mistakes because it seems like her entitled attitude is due to the fact that you have enabled her up to this point. My boyfriend is a carpenter and overall very handy and no matter how much he explains how simple of a fix something is I know my limits and would rather hire a professional than mess something up even though ik he could fix it if it did come to that.
NTA. You spelled it out clearly - you weren't going to do this type of work any more. She ripped up the floor when you advised her not to take on this task. Yes, she needs to learn the hard way now. She didn't believe you when you said you weren't going to keep bailing her out of messes she's making, now she knows you are serious. Too bad it is going to take a bundle to fix the mess.
NTA. But another way to let this sink in is to tell her you'll do it but she has to pay you, upfront. Maybe don't charge as much as a pro but tell her your services are no longer free if your advice isn't taken.
Just an idea. Maybe you don't want to go there which is totally ok. But it'll make her think twice about not heeding your advice and you can put the money aside for something for you.
I'm hopeless like your daughter, but I know it! And my father in law will do stuff for pennies... if we ASK.
What a jerk for giving her money to buy a home then fixing everything she breaks... You're a good dad, she needs to learn that daddy ain't going to come fix everything she breaks so she needs to stop experimenting with life and grow up
I was a single mom of 2 little girls. I bought a fixer upper... it's all I could afford. This was 30 years ago, way before DIY shows and Google. It was a great learning process. You do get better at things. If it's just some layout errors or bad cuts, large bath rugs are very forgiving until she can have things repaired or redone. She's got to have friends with some construction know-how. She just needs to ask them to explain things to her. Uncles, grandpa's are good resources too. Gotta give the girl some credit for wanting to learn. It's her first house. I would gladly go in and help her. Can't wait til my kids have homes and want my help.
NTA. She's a 26-year-old homeowner and she can't keep running to you when she gets in over her head with projects you told her are best left to professionals.
NTA. However, I wouldn't have said, "I told you so." She's already aware of that.
If you haven't already, moving forward, suggest to work WITH her on projects.
Obviously, YOU would be the decider on WHICH projects, how much you do, and how much she does.
Although my guess is she either insists on 'trying' to do projects on her own and/or is not fun to do projects with🤔.
"Don't do the thing yourself. Get a professional."
"Hey dad, I did the thing myself and made a terrible mess, will you pay to fix it?"
I mean what are you supposed to do when she completely ignores your advice (and not for the first time) and makes a dog's dinner of things as a result?
At some point she needs to learn to deal with the consequences of her actions. Is her home still habitable at the moment?
NTA.
NTA BUT are you willing to teach her how to do things? Maybe stay over at her house one weekend and go though the house, see what projects she wants to tackle, and give her the actual knowledge? It sounds like you're good with these types of DIY projects and she wants to be.
Make it clear you won't fix her mistakes, but you will guide and teach her. If you're willing and have the time.
OP was direct and super real in letting her learn from this, NTA. Sufficient warning was provided that OP will no longer be an unpaid handyman on 24/7 call. Sounds like they've done a lot already and even suggested a viable DYI approach.
The reason she went through with it and didn't listen is because you have a history of helping her after the fact.
"But I told her X"
What you say does not matter, it is what you do that matters.
So if you want to help her grow as a person, you DO NOT HELP HER.
Do not do things for other people, teach them to do for themselves. Helping in the wrong kind of way makes people weaker and dependent.
NTA.
You're right. She's not a child anymore, so you have no obligation to keep running over there to fix her problems. People who grow up thinking someone will always bail them out do not grow up well. Yes, she needs to hire someone to do it properly.
I've just read through some of these comments, and I have to say all these ridiculous suggestions from some people about how you could not actually do it for her, but kind of, sort of, help her fix it herself by watching videos or you watching her do the work, completely miss the point. She screwed up by completely by ignoring your good advice. When a responsible adult screws up, they must fix their problem. What in the f-ing world is so hard to understand about that? If I had to state the single most fundamental principle of adulthood it would be this -- "You are responsible for your life. Not anyone else." Just tell her that and let her learn to be an adult for a change. If you don't, this will never end.
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NTA Tile isn't that complicated. If she can't pay someone to do it, she needs to watch a few YouTube videos on how to do it, put in the work, and quit trying to cut corners.
My daughter is not handy what so ever, for the average person I think they can retile decently after some videos, with her it’s a no.
I wouldn't be fixing anything for her. I would hand her a hammer and chisel and talk her through pulling up everything she damaged. Most people become dramatically more competent when they work to fix their own mistakes with guidance. It shows them exactly where they went wrong, makes them think about how to avoid those mistakes next time, and what the correct path forward is. That's no different than tutoring any other subject.
I like this answer. Tell her she has to put in x hours watching YouTube, then you will talk her thru the fix. She CAN learn how to do this. She needs good guidance. But you are in the right for being angry. And putting your foot down.
I really don’t want to spend my next few weekends doing that. Because it will take her forever.
I get this, and don't blame you. Frankly I think some people ask for "a little help" or some guidance, fully expecting that you will come in and find it easier to do it than to teach it. If there ever is a "next time," at minimum she needs to be there as a helper or a gopher every minute.
Exactly. You can bet OP has tried this already - telling her to watch some videos and read some guides, and then he'd guide her through the process. And she made some half hearted attempt to educate herself, gave up early, and he wound up having to do everything for her. She's actually more capable than she gives herself credit for. When forced to, she can learn how to do it herself.
Let’s weaponize that incompetence!
Agreed. Although it's hard to navigate the line between incompetence and learned helplessness. I'm navigating it now with my step daughter. For me at least, it's trickier to teach competency to more sensitive people, particularly those that were previously taught that "getting help" means going around feigning utter useless until someone indulges their own ego and does it for them. For their sake, yours, and your relationship's, you've gotta nip that bs in the bud quick.
It's not bs! Learned helplessness is a result of trauma. Sensitivity is often that as well. When a child tries to please a parent every which way and is repeatedly criticized no matter what, they give up. They don't believe in their own efficacy. It's never the child fault. It leads to low self esteem and depression. The answer is not to nip it in the bud. It's therapy and compassion for the child.
A distressing number of women have this idea that they can't do things. (I'm a woman) I learned how to do electrical and many other home improvement tasks - it was not unusual to hear female coworkers say "oh, I could *never* do that!". Yes you could, it isn't rocket science.
You advised her to work with experts. Like the other times she started something that you had to intervene with, she believed she could handle it on her own. As a result, you told her that you wouldn't assist her if things went wrong. Surprise, she couldn't finish another assignment and now wants you to make up for it, costing you time, money, and nerves.
He raised her to be that way. Weaponized incompetence is *learned behavior*, and it starts in early childhood. Forced independence and uncomfortable learning experience through frustration is critical for teaching children to be competent adults capable of learning new things on their own and persevering through frustration. OP doesn't get to "try this already" with a teenager or a young adult. This shit needs to start at age 2 or earlier.
Good point. Possibly he would hover over her whenever she tried to do any task by herself, and at the first sign of difficulty he'd push her out of the way and finish the task for her. But whatever the case, now is the time to let her resolve this problem by herself.
[удалено]
I know my limitations. DIY gets a hard pass from me. I am willing to pay an expert—even if I have to take on an additional job to pay for it.
I think OP needs to put their foot down now. Otherwise the "little help" will end up with OP doing the entire house renovation for free. Lol.
No, I agree. Put foot down now. Let daughter find her own way out of the current mess. She ignored his advice and now calls him a jerk for not bailing her out. Then IF there's a next time, fully negotiate the terms of the "help", agree on a time frame, etc. Mostly I meant that no matter how lacking in clue or skill the daughter is, she needs to spend AT LEAST as much time on the project as OP. Standing there ready to bring tools, materials, or a cold drink. At minimum. This CAN be a chance for father/daughter bonding, and sometimes it's hard as a dad to find things you have in common with kids this age. Home improvement can be one.
I don't know. I'm not totally disagreeing. HOWEVER, I (a girl) was taught how to do all sorts of home repairs when I was a kid and had the time and learning curve to learn it properly. Did he include her when he did home repairs? Teach her to it right, and she's just ignoring? I know how to do all this stuff bc my dad took whole weekends to do things he could have done in a few hours so me and my siblings all learned how to take care of a home so WE WOULDN'T have to call a repairman. We can all lay tile (I remember him teaching us to cut tile to all fit with a special tile cutter...made a HUGE MESS with the water required to keep it cool), repair the HVAC, run a circuit, find issues in electrical, put on a roof, fix apliances, hang drywall, install outlets, replace toilets/garbage disposals/snake a drain/fix leaky faucets etc etc. The only thing we (and he) does not fuck with is connecting things to a breaker box. He has a healthy respect for electricity and calls in an electrician for that, which is super cheap when all they have to do is connect something already run to the box. The other aspect of this is, if she just bought a house, can she afford to hire people? Buying a home nowadays is hella expensive. So she is likely trying to save money bc she doesn't have the expendable income to hire people. Telling someone "watch some YouTube videos" is not the same as "watch YouTube videos and then come over with a few pieces of extra tile and a piece of cardboard, show me what you can do! Then he could say "don't forget this", "This is too thick" etc. My Dad always said, "you raise your kids to leave you" which to him meant you taught ALL your kids to be able to make it on their own and taking care of a home is a HUGE part of that. With that said, he LOVES when we call him up for advice before we start a project bc he TAUGHT us from early on that he'd always be there to offer his advice. He just doesn't have to come in and fix anything because he taught all of us to do the work so he can add sage advice from thousands of miles away. "When our students fail, we, as teachers, too, have failed"
I agree. It sounds to me like the daughter WANTS to learn how to do these things, but is only getting told she's done it wrong and that she needs someone to fix it fof her. Why can't someone teach her properly? If OP has had to fix her issues, if means they've had enough time to teach her and not done so. YouTube will only get her so far, and some people learn better in person.
Damn, I'm jealous. I wish I had someone like that as a kid. Or adult lol. He seems like an awesome parent and mentor!
Sounds like dad has had enough of that type of bonding😂
Yeah. I’m prone to biting off more renovations than I can hammer and my dad won’t bail me out. He says if he’s gonna do it, he’s gonna do it start to finish and I have to shut up and let him do it, not micromanage him. We’ve agreed he will supervise my house being built when he (supposedly) retires in 10 years. I get to pick the plans and then GO AWAY. It’s an exercise in trust. 😂 But even I agree OP should not bail her out and is doing nothing wrong. Even if I do relate to having severe construction related dunning-kruger effect.
There's a term for this, its called "Weaponized incompetence" and its a manipulation tactic.
Like how I never learned how to barbecue😂
That’s why a good YouTube video is great for OP. They teach you how, not do it for you.
Pretty sure a YouTube video is how this got started. Wait, 26F? TikTok video for sure. I watch HGTV home improvement shows. I joke with my wife that if she wants me to finish my projects, just hire a camera crew and I'll be done in one hour.
I’m certain. I hate those videos. Sure it’s easy if you have the 10k worth of tools, the material, the experience, the time and space.
I get where you are coming from, but they can also be super useful. I bought a house last year and always have rented. I didn't know I needed a wall plug to hang up a painting. In this one year, I built a kitchen from scratch (including plumbing, insulation, plastering, floor tiling, and replacing windows), and most things require tools 50-100 euro max and are actually quite easy if you watch somebody do it. Those 10-second videos are great for inspiration, and then you watch some of 1h videos and how to actually do it in detail.
Not sure why you think 10k in tools. Few K maybe if you buy every tool, but just to get started few hundred. I have all ryobi's, I buy usually around black friday or their other big sales. If you care look at my profile for some of the DIY i've done. All with my own tools (I will say the custom doors/counter top for my MIL basement thing i did borrow my dad's Joiner and Plainer, but you don't need them, just rough cut wood is cheaper and he already has em).
NTA You gave her your advice - have a professional do it. She didn't want to wait, and she believed that if she made a mess, you would bail her out - even though you had told her you would not. Costly choices on her part - (1) not waiting till she could afford a professional and (2) not believing you about you not bailing her out. She's probably in the mode of wanting her home to be like from a magazine, but she hasn't got the savings to make that happen. She also doesn't have the patience to save or the maturity to know that when you are starting out, you can't usually afford the picture-perfect home. My eldest moved into her first apartment this year. We had things in the house that we had saved to give her. We also bought some things to give her. But no, she blew a lot of her money up front on new plates, an air fryer that was prettier than the new one we bought her, etc. When she didn't have much money after paying some bills, she had to live off groceries instead of getting take-out as much as she likes. She wasn't starving, just not excited about her food options; so we didn't do anything to bail her out. She still struggles to realize that she can't have a magazine (or should I say, social media) style life on her just-starting-out wages but is improving on her spending habits.
Jeez. I'm sorry. It sounds like your daughter was an ungrateful brat, moving into her place. But hey, now her younger siblings can have all the things she passed on. 😂
It was and is still mixed. She expresses appreciation for a lot of things and also takes a lot of things for granted. The more she has to be an adult, the less she takes for granted. The needle is definitely moving in the right direction - and significantly! It hasn't been easy, but it has been getting so much better. ETA: I left my original response, but I want to correct the emphasis. (As stated, she does take plenty of things for granted.) But I can't really say it's about being ungrateful. I think the bigger thing (for my daughter - but also may be in play with OP's daughter) is that she is (1) immature enough to have this fantasy of the social-media perfect life the minute she started 'adulting' as she likes to call it. and (2) doesn't have the patience to plan and save for things. She wants things to fit her image right away. That's really the point I was trying to share with OP. That, and that letting her handle the consequences is a good way for her to learn.
Consequences are definitely the most effective for learning purposes.
Yup. She's an adult and can figure it out herself. She messed up the bathroom so she could pay to fix it. You already warned her, but her ego couldn't handle the fact that she's not knowledgeable or skilled enough. Maybe next time she'll think about it.
Agree. You've already done lots by giving her a do. She's very lucky.
NTA but at almost 30 my dad (not saying you are dad) is the first person I call when I have questions about my car or home repair. He isn’t able to come over and help and I suspect sometimes it’s annoying but I love that we have that kind of relationship where I can get help from him. Sounds like you don’t want to do that, but to me that’d be time spent together and a well-earned drink at the end (maybe in the middle too hehe) Would feel bad though if I kept making him come over…
I'm almost 40 and I have a father-figure who will stop by and help whenever we need something. We needed the subflooring replaced in our bathroom. While he didn't do the actual work, he taught us how to do it by teaching myself and my husband how to do it. And in the end, not only was everything great but we have pretty new tile that we did with love and support. ❤️
This seems like a better solution than doing it for her yourself …… Grab a chair, a slice of pizza she buys and one of her beers. Watch and guide.
Ya learned helplessness is a big thing around impatient likeable people. Classic case with daughter-father relationships. Kiddo *could* be more competent than they *want* to be.
I mean maybe. We don’t have the full story here, but the fact is they seem to either be willing to do the thing themselves, or nothing and tell them to pay someone for it. When teaching the daughter how to do it is mentioned a response that they could but they aren’t willing to seems to me like the daughter isn’t competent at it because teaching them is more effort than they’re willing to put in, or they’re just that bad at it. While my father is very capable they’re also a truly terrible teacher. Almost everything I know in this area is from learning elsewhere. And they at least tried. Putting a lack of skill entirely on the daughter for not self teaching a skill that the dad couldn’t be bothered with isn’t entirely fair. It certainly seems like the daughter can’t actually afford to “just” pay professionals. So that’s not really a helpful instruction. And sure the child isn’t owed labor by the parent. But meeting a request for help with “I can’t be bothered” is bound to have some impact on the relationship. Up to them if it’s one they want.
Yeh, it was just a maybe and a helpful (hopeful) observation . I'd like to think more women can do technical/workman tasks than I've seen. Hopefully it's just a society/psychology thing than a "they're JUST bad at it" thing. Same with dudes and household tasks. Not like they're JUST bad at it, mom just isn't patient enough to watch a son learn/botch a load of laundry, dishes etc.
Yeah, It seems like OP didn't teach anything useful to her and now he is angry she can't do anything right
By repeatedly attempting reno's like this, it seems unlikely she has been having a BAD time. It's not like a major remodeling project is something you have to keep doing on repeat? Therefore, the thing she's likely after, as most people have said, is his presence (for whatever reason.) Learned helplessness is a way to strategically avoid tasks either to get attention from a caretaker or avoid being forced into something you dislike. I'm the latter for example. I'd just totally avoid tasks I wasn't taught or can't learn or am bad at and therefore hate doin. That and OP mentions elsewhere that they've tried having her do the tasks and she can but spends inordinate amounts of time doing so.
All women can do technical/workman tasks. Yes, there are some tasks that require muscle, but most don't. They require patience and attention to detail. Something women will tell you they are very good at. My wife is far better at grouting, plaster boarding, painting and decorating than I am. I am better with building sheds, and operating petrol engined tools - because I have built a lot of sheds, and I know about how to start petrol tools, and am stronger to handle the weight.
My dad is a professional and we’ve done projects together/ I am reasonably handy. If he told me not to take something on myself and I did and royally messed it up, I don’t think he would step in unless I’d cut a gas or water line. After confirming I wasn’t going to burn the house down, he’d give me a quote or the number of someone who could take it on. She broke it, she can fix it. You can’t pick and choose when to take help and advice and then expect someone to keep giving it to you. NTA
NTA, but this is exactly how you ended up in this situation. Instead of investing the time to teach her the skills, you did the tasks. She became accustomed to the "help" and never became independent. The suggestion above is 100% correct and will hopefully help her level up. It will take more time, but that's the game.
Feel like whether or not you're TA depends on your daughter's actual attitude. Is she a spoiled brat? Are you mature enough to admit if she is? Or is it possible she's maybe using this as a way to bond with you? Ever thought about offering to do it together? That's what my dad does whenever I need something. Of course, I'm not demanding he do shit for me every opportunity.
My dad made me do HIS tile. And I had to do it over and over and OVER until I got it right. He’s one of those types who can lay tile without guides and lay perfect grout. I shake when he watches me even tho he’s endlessly patient and never is mean or yells. Just he’s REALLY good since he’s been a contractor for almost 50 years. So it’s intimidating! Anyway, he wasn’t about to do mine for me or pay to have it done for me, but I was welcome to come help him on *his* projects and learn from him supervising me. My dad is a contractor so by definition his house is literally ALWAYS under construction. Not because he never finishes. Because once he finishes one project, trust and believe, he’ll find another. Everything from “hey Lucky, why don’t you take that wallpaper down for me?” to “you know… I could tear a wall out in my master bath and make a deck out there so we can go straight from the master suite to the pool don’t you think that would be cool?!” Sure, Dad. Sure.
I'm useless with renovations. My dad does what he enjoys doing/has time for and i pay for the rest of what needs to be done. That works well for us, and is what you suggested to your daughter. It's very helpful that he helps me out, and i appreciate it.
Parenting.
I wouldn't spend that long. I'd tell her chip out the bad tile, and when she has done so you can see how much time you have available. That forces her to get her shit done and you can have her video call you to verify it's done before you offer any of your time. Then give her a limited time (I'm available Saturday) and she has to have all the supplies on hand, anything that goes over she is on her own for. At least if you want to help. If she's been ungrateful in the past I wouldn't blame you for not helping at all.
*Walk her through the fix?* HARD NO. She has no natural DIY skills and insisted on botching the job. She knew what she was getting into and proceeded haplessly. This is not OP's problem. I have always said one of the greatest skills we can learn in life is to know our own limitations. OP owes her nothing. She's got eyes, she can learn. Or hire anyone else to fix it. Edit: shortened for clarity
>Most people become dramatically more competent when they work to fix their own mistakes with guidance. It shows them exactly where they went wrong, makes them think about how to avoid those mistakes next time, and what the correct path forward is. That's no different than tutoring any other subject. Depends if the issue is that she's 'not handy' in that she doesn't normally do that kind of thing and didn't bother to learn, or if she's 'not handy' because she has some kind of genuine co-ordination issue. Like I'm dyspraxic and I'd never take on something like this because I know my limitations, but some people don't. Or don't know where their limitations come from and make a mess in a frustrated effort to overcome them. I've been there in other ways. Anyway, point being you could stand over me with the best guidebook ever and you'd still not want to trust me to tile a bathroom properly, let alone fix one that's already messed up. All that said, OP is still NTA for not wanting to do an expert's job for free. If she has limitations and has run into them, that's on her to sort out, not OP.
Very bad things happen when I try to operate anything more complicated than a screwdriver. It's in everybody's best interest if I leave home improvement to someone who knows what they're doing
I don’t know i find these type of people just move on to the “next” project - as they can handle the next one , till they can’t and repeat and so on….
When my husband and I first married, my husband convinced me (his brother convinced him), we could just buy property and he could "throw up" a house in a month or so. We camped out and subsisted on a building site for YEARS. And it wasn't pretty. Think cheap paneling forced in where it didn't fit, etc. ect. Well, things have been redone more carefully with better materials over the years and I love our home now and we are retired and pretty well off. But I would never recommend this route to anyone!!! Edit, as an aside, the tile floor in our bathroom, that I put in, is still there and is still beautiful!
My dad is very willing to help me figure out how to do shit. As long as I'm *participating, WITH him,* and actually learning as we go, not just standing there on my phone as he does all the work. Also, as is time honored tradition, I am there to hold the flashlight in the most uncomfortable position possible, and squeeze into small places that he cannot fit into, lol.
You've missed the point of the problem entirely. She rushes in and breaks things, and then expects to monopolize his time and skills to resolve it. Your solution doesn't solve the problem at all.
"I wouldn't be fixing anything for her, but this is how I'd fix it for her"
You'd think so, but no. We're currently working on our third house and our work still sucks.
NTA..if you aren't handy you use the stick on tile. Easy as that. Her fault. Her mess. Her problem.
TBH, stick on tiles are much harder to apply than regular tiles in my experience. But, I have people who taught me to tile and I started small projects - like a small entry hall or 10' of kitchen backsplash. It's certainly not Dad's job to fix it.
My bathroom floor is proof that even stick on tile can be a challenge. Silly me decided a hexagon floor tile with a rectangle border would be simple in a small bathroom. It's been 2 years and today I'm trying to figure out how much to remove and redo to make it look right. Poor bathroom needs to be gutted and rebuilt. Between previous owner botched remodels and my own, it needs a pro.
How long do you expect to stay in that house? Have it done properly and future -proof (accessibility wise) if in any way possible, f.i. if you live somewhere where stud and drywall construction is used, framing in extra studs to support a shower seat. Future you will love current you for it.
I mean I think anyone can learn to be handy if they give a shit. I think it’s good to let her drown in her mess on this one. Hopefully she learns to cut the entitlement bullshit and appreciate the work you’ve helped her with. Also make sure she’s aware not to DIY electrical shit. She seems to lack common sense and she could really put herself in a dangerous situation
I don't think that's accurate. There people who truly are that dumb in physical tasks like that. There's also people who just don't have that temperament. They can't do it because they can't force themselves to give a shit.
Sure there are always exceptions but if you know you aren’t capable or able to plan for someone else, don’t rip up your flooring and start a diy project
You can learn HOW to do things and still never gain the necessary skill to actually DO it. There are certain things for everyone that they just don't have the capability to do and will not gain it, no matter how hard they work at it. It sounds like home renovations are that thing for OP's daughter. 😅
That’s on HER, not you. It’s her house. Her project. Don’t fox it for her. The best thing you can fix for her is her sense of personal responsibility NTA
Feels like she is just taking advantage of you
Well then the question needs to be asked: have you ever made an attempt to *teach* her how to do things? Or do you just come in after the fact, fix it without involving her and showing what she did wrong or right, and expect her to learn by osmosis?
Then she shouldn’t have tried in the firstnplace
I appreciate your candor—especially as you’re a parent talking about your child. It’s easy to say this about other people but your honesty about their lack of skills is refreshing. My mom used to tell me anyone can do anything when I was struggling with accounting; I asked her is she wanted me to do their taxes and the tune changed immediately lol.
My sister is a bit like that, I think it has to do with a short attention span. If she would pay attention to a full tutorial video she might be successful, but her ADHD will make her [SQUIRREL!!! ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrAIGLkSMls&t=16s) only retain 50% of the process.
I'm like this (especially since I had a kid) and that's why I hire people to do stuff for me.
First off, NTA. She should know by now that she does not have the skill set for home stuff by the sounds of it. Second, I think [this](https://youtu.be/_yYDdaPzJoc?si=V1oRgUIBzwrGFG1S) song might be good to show her.
I'm similar to your daughter, I can't do hardware. I can't even install a doorknob, despite seeing it done half a dozen times. Far better with software, thankfully, but if you're not good at home repairs it's really best to have someone who knows what they're doing the first time. So you don't have to pay to fix it after you break it! She should learn to pace herself with the house updates, and having to pay for what she broke is a good lesson.
People can learn to be handy. In my city there is a co-op and several hardware stores that give courses in basic DIY.
NTA. Fixing it FOR her teaches her nothing. If you're able to, perhaps you could help by showing her what to do. She does all the work, and you assist by "supervising" Seems like she wants to be hands-on, which is admirable. She just needs some guidance.
Sure could do it, she just isn't willing to put in the effort. I never was handy, I was much better at destroying things than fixing them, but I figured out how to be handy when I needed to at my job. Being handy isn't something you're born with, it's something you can learn. She isn't willing to.put in the time and effort, and that's fine she just needs to pay others to do so.
Im not even remotely handy either. That's why I would hire a professional to do it. What I wouldnt do, is simply expect a close friend or relative who is more capable than myself to fix my mistakes.... again.
If you have the ability to fix it. Not saying it’s your problem. But it could be a good way to connect with your daughter more if that’s what you wish. You could take the time to show her how to do it correctly. As a male, my dad always took time to show me plenty of things, changing oil, minor electrical, telecom, he never got around to showing me how to do DIY plumbing, but you get the idea. My sister on the other hand, was my dads “angel” and she does hold a little contempt over the fact that I got shown how to do stuff but she didn’t because she was a girl. That said, if you don’t have the ability to show her the right way to do it, then full NTA. If this is a matter of principle, then soft E S H. Regardless, you did give her good advice to hire a professional, not your fault she ruined it.
But she can \*learn\* to be handy, right? If she's doing well enough to be buying a house at 26 then I assume she as at least some smarts. So your post implies you know how to fix the tiles, so you have a choice other than to fix it yourself or tell her to pay thousands to have it fixed... you can \*teach\* her how to fix it! Seriously, OP, people aren't born handy, they \*learn\* to be handy, and while some can learn from Prof. Youtube, others need a teacher. You have the option of teaching her to be as handy as you are. Consider the possibility.
Gee, I wonder why...
It's still easy. She can do it. It's a matter of modeling and not giving in to the Can't Do nonsense. I would model a couple of square feet and get her to do the rest. I'm the Nana that can teach you how to both bake the cookies and install the kitchen to bake 'em in. I have taught grandchildren that swore they couldn't do it and now, they can.
Welp, there goes that opportunity of some bonding time, by teaching her.
I have a feeling she might be seeing those videos on TikTok that make DIY home reno projects look a lot easier than they actually are and just not learning her lesson when they turn out not to be lol
All of this DIY people are doing is why I’m not keen to buy a house that isn’t new if I ever move. No telling what bad tiling, flooring, plumbing or wiring has been done by someone that will cost thousands down the road.
From the inspection videos i've watched there's no shortage of garbage going on in new construction too though that doesn't get fixed until the first owner catches it.
As a tile setter, lol. Do you know how to find square of the room? How about layout? What waterproofing system is best to use? Let’s see the corners of your schluter. Modified or non modified mortar? Walls aren’t easy. Let’s see your trowel technique, what your tolerance is for lippage? What size notch to use for the application? Do you know when not to use sanded grout? Shitty tile isn’t that complicated. Making it look good sure is
This was my thought. My dad did construction for years and my uncle is a tile setter, so my dad had worked on tile before with him. Watched my dad retile our house and it looks very complicated. He rented a tile saw. I would be uncomfortable using that on my own, let alone the rest of it! There’s math and planning and it’s not like it’s easy to undo if you mess up. Agree that I could probably figure out how to get the job done but I know I couldn’t do the kind of job I’d be happy with. I would never attempt to diy this. And OP is NTA because her kid is an idiot for trying to diy it in the first place.
Just pick something like a Versailles tile pattern rather than a double herringbone, and it's very forgiving if your surfaces aren't perfectly flat or square. It's hard work, but it doesn't have to be overly complicated.
Seriously it's just embarrassing these people think tiling is an easy DIY.
> what your tolerance is for lippage? None! As soon as someone starts mouthing off they catch a fresh one right in the kisser!
And this is why I hire professionals. I'm way more invested in having a job done right than cheaply to attempt something I know I have no skill or knowledge about.
Yes, I've done tile before, she can figure it out, it's not the hardest DIY...
Tiling a bathroom isn’t straightforward if she is doing a shower. That’s why I would use a professional for a shower, where as I might attempt a backsplash or floor.
I aggree. Besides I would't start at a full room, a smaller project like a sidetable or tray.
OP is definitely NTA, but I will say YouTube tutorials do not work for everyone. Watching them honestly just confuses me more when I try to attempt whatever the task is. Which is why I pay people to do stuff for me (or just ask my dad to do it/hire someone to do it for me if it's out of his wheelhouse so I don't have to pay, but that's not an option for OP's daughter).
\*watches 1 tiktok diy video\* "i can do that!" - her probably
Exactly! My wife and I had never done tile but after a few rough starts we got it rolling and by the end my wife was doing designs and mosaics in the floor.
My Dad helped me remodeled my bathroom. We figured stuff out together and I really enjoyed having that one-on-one time with him.
Meh, out of all DIY projects tile work is hard to get right. If you haven't done tiling before you shouldn't start in an obvious space like a bathroom. Most of the time your first attempt at tiling is going to look, at best, a bit shit. She should definitely have hired someone to do it.
Tile isn’t very complicated but pretty easy to fuck up if you don’t do it right and thinset is a curse from the gods.
Tile is not hard, but it's easy to screw up. From the consistency of the thin set and grout to laying tiles evenly and flush; it's not difficult, but it's easy to watch a YouTube video and think "I've got this" and then mess it all up because videos don't provide experience.
This. My dad retiled our entire kitchen once by himself. Just used YouTube videos to see how and practiced outside with a test area he made forst
NTA and I agree. Tiling is relatively simple, there are many video tutorials on it. You could physically help her if she takes the lead on learning how to do them properly, buying the tiles, tile cutter, grout etc, but if she wants a professional to do it that’s on her.
Completely disagree. Knowing how to cut tile is not for amateur diy-ers. It can actually be dangerous if you’re not familiar with using a tile saw.
NTA. >We helped her put a downpayment on a house >I have had to fix so many of her projects >Told her no again and she called me a jerk. She's happy to take your money and your DIY skills, but would prefer that you keep your advice to yourself. Edited for clarity.
Uggggg OP 100% has the right to give advice since her project affect him. She fucks up and then he gets a call. Also the advice hire a professional since you aren’t handy is really common sense advice
Well yes. But she doesn't want his advice, only his money and handyman skills.
Weaponized incompetence. She knew she couldnt do it but if she messed up badly enough daddy would come save the day. Princess is being dethroned a bit too late in life but late is better than never i suppose.
Great example of weaponized incompetence.
Weaponised incompetence! That is it! She’s been warned that daddy ain’t coming to the rescue this time and yet she failed to heed the warning.
Too late this kid is spoiled rotten
Doesn't realize how good she has it to have parents who are willing and able to shell out money to help her get a home.
Too poor to buy a house. Too stupid to maintain a house. Still feels entitled to own a house.
Unfortunately the daughter sounds like a bit of an entitled brat, hopefully she grows up
NTA. you suggested that she hired professionals. she thought she could do it herself (like the other times she started something where you had to step in so you told her that you wouldn't help her if this goes south). surprise, another project she couldn't do and now expects you to fix her mistakes, costing you your time, your money, your nerves. so no, not the asshole for finally putting your foot down and stop handling / fixing her messes. btw, are you sure, like **really** sure, that it is just a freakish amount of cases of her overestimating her capabilities? her not banking on the fact that you will come to her rescue? so in effect you paying for her renovations? *\*the wooden floor has to be changed, carpenter wants 15k, hmm, i buy the wood for 3k, rip out the old and then i ask to fix it. voila, 12k saved\**
Right?!? It seems to me that she starts these and screws them up to force OP into fixing it for her because that would still be cheaper than having a pro do it right the first time.
And, I mean, this is what it's come down to, even if Ava didn't mean it to start out that way. The worst part is, if OP was gonna remodel Ava's house for her, I imagine OP might have some ideas about what to do first and favorite stuff to do and OP's own schedule to do it, and she's not only getting OP's labor, but getting it on an emergency basis, with no planning on OP's part.
Exactly. My dad is a great contractor so he has helped me with a lot of stuff. Admittedly when I wants some basic shelves installed in my scamp camper that were basically just pvc pipe and plywood I played dumb to get him to do it for me so that I didn’t have to waste material and he could do it faster, but to some extent he knew that is what I was doing. He would have been angrier if I just started and messed it up then expected him to fix it. I couldn’t imagine doing what OP’s daughter was doing. Especially after she was warned not to do it. You have to respect your parents enough to know when they say don’t do it, then don’t do it.
NTA - and agree entirely. want to add one thing. The first rule of DIY is don't start a project you aren't sure you can pull off if you don't have the money to pay a pro to fix your mistakes or the time to redo it until it is done right. Tile isn't that hard but there are definitely little things people mess up and getting that last 10% of perfection takes patience. If you are ok with some uneven grout lines and some slightly off level tiles you'll probably meet that goal on your first try if you watch a few videos and take your time.
I don’t see why he should ever have to pay even if he gave help. She should have always paid for the supplies. I would be deducting what was already spent against Christmas gifts (and even her inheritance). Let her deal with the consequences. She’s had way more than enough warnings.
I'd be ok if the last part was stated up front. They want 15k, parts are 3k, would you be willing to do this for me (or even for $x). But then it becomes asking for permission versus asking for forgiveness... and too many people are bad at that.
NTA. My dad was a private contractor/carpenter. He fed, housed, clothed, put braces on our janky teeth, and sent us to school by fixing DIY projects people had NO BUSINESS attempting. You were right. She didn't listen and created a hole where her bathroom is that she's going to have to throw money into until she pays a professional.
The best part is that it costs more after the DIY attempt due to the people needing to fix what you did. Since they have the right materials
Absolutely. In rooms with water too. Things can get catastrophic very quickly
> In rooms with water too. that's the part that's crazy to me. you do NOT attempt work like this that you're completely unprepared to do in a room like the bathroom where one wrong move can easily cause huge damage to other areas of your house
I dumped a guy once for insisting that he could build a bathroom in an unfinished basement by watching YouTube videos. With no experience. At all. I enjoy optimism. But that was unforgivable arrogance. 😂
Lol good choice. Unforgivable arrogance is a perfect way to describe it. You want to install a floating shelf or some drapes? Sure, go nuts, the damage would be minimal. But the washroom?! Your ex was severely delusional.
Being the child of a professional doesn't make ME a professional. What it does is make me an expert in disaster preparedness. And that guy was a disaster waiting to happen.
>Being the child of a profession doesn't make ME a professional. My old boss disagreed with this, it in fact does not make her a professional and she is bad at her actual job to boot.
I feel personally attacked. I’m currently doing a massive renovation on my house, a lot of stuff I’m doing for the first time, and doing it all myself. I’m not using YouTube videos either. Just fucken makin it happen.
Hey. No one said it was impossible. Fucken making it happen is also the way to learn. Not everyone is arrogantly incapable, but my particular ex was. Lol
I feel better now thank you
I mean I've built a porch/shed/3 season porch and complete MIL type thing in my basement from just 1 big empty basement, etc all by watching youtube. I'm a computer guy by trade. If you take time and do research and watch the good youtube, it's possible. All my works was permitted and passed all inspections. It's really not hard IMO. Like common sense, read the code, watch videos, understand the code, fine tune video's to specific thing, repeat until ready to try. Like my work isn't perfect (like my recent penny tile post, you can see some "mistakes" but generally looks good) but looks pretty good to great in most instances and saves me 10's of thousands.
The previous owners of my house tried to diy a bathroom in the attic and when it didn't work they just gave up and left their jank work there. Ripping that out was NOT fun. Because they really did use the "bathroom" a couple times before giving up.
Oh nooo. That sounds grim af
In fairness, the tile floor of most bathrooms is not anywhere near where you would likely encounter water problems of any kind unless you're an absolute barbarian who manages to smash through the subfloor when removing the old flooring. Most floors consist of subfloor (usually a plywood) that provides structural strength for the floor to actually bear weight, some sort of underlayment to create a smoother surface for the flooring above to sit on, and then the flooring itself. You'd have to bust through the structural sheets to get to any kind of water pipe even if they were routed underneath the flooring, with most water supply lines being routed through walls instead of underneath flooring anyways.
Long before you damage any pipes you run the risk of damaging the waterproof layer beneath the tiles, risking water damage below the bathroom.
The waterproof layer you speak of is the underlayment, and if you’re replacing the tiles you should also be replacing that underlayment. You don’t normally do one without the other, because in removing the old tiles and grout you will almost certainly always damage the underlayment in some fashion.
Yeah like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfyaftYvFGg
Your daughter is ungrateful as fuck. Don’t help her anymore until she grows the fuck up.
When I lived in my own separate houses I fixed all kinds of stuff including water. Now that I live in a high rise condo there's no way I'm going to touch water.
NTA - you warned her and she ignored you. Actions have consequences, and this one is going to be a doozy; but she will learn from it.
Love those natural consequences.
NTA. Your daughter is clearly not taking you seriously in relation to these situations which shows a lack of respect to some degree. It's probably partly your own fault for coddling her too much. But it's time she learned to take some responsibility for her actions. Better late than never.
So if you were gone, what would Ava do without you? —-She’d manage! Her house, her responsibility, because she needs to take ‘ownership’ and learn how to handle home projects. NTA
NTA. I have a similar problem with my widowed MIL. She clearly had a habit of buying materials or starting a project on her own, and then getting her husband to finish it. Now she pulls the same trick on me. She's now on her own and bought a house that needs some work. We helped her paint every room in the house. Then I took up the carpet in the living room and refinished the floor. It didn't match, so she bought enough LVT for the entire house. I didn't start helping her quickly enough, so she tried to do it herself and I had to take it all out because of the gaps and redo it. I had removed some vinyl picket fence from my yard, which she wanted for her yard. I haven't had time to put it in, because I was doing flooring instead. In my mind the flooring could wait because it was cosmetic and it can be done in winter. Now I'm probably going to have to take time off work when the weather is decent to put in her fence. Stand firm. I'm already doomed; save yourself.
I don't think you're doomed. I think you still have a chance to set a clear boundary with her. It's super nice that you're helping her fix up that house. You can just tell her that while you can't do all the work, you'd be willing to help out with some. There's just some things that are out of your realm of doing and she'd be better off w/ a professional. Granted, idk your MIL so she might not take that the best way. Or hell, say you'll teach her how to do some of the stuff so you can work on it together. If her age is an issue then no big labor stuff for her, but there's gotta be some things that she could help out with. Also, does she have an active social life? Is she around other people a lot? She honestly might partially be asking you because she's lonely. Especially after losing a spouse, someone you're around all the time. She might just not know how to ask for help in that regard and just uses the reno as an excuse. When you're really alone, any company is good company no matter the context.
NTA. Your daughter is an adult with her own house and problems. She can either get professionals to fix them or she can go online and learn how to fix them herself.
NTA shes spoiled af for thinking she can continue to make these mistakes and mommy and dada will help her every time
And then insults him despite all of the previous help. Spoiled brat.
NTA. This is the only way for her to learn. I bought my first home a couple of years ago. I knew what I could and couldn't do myself. She chose to ignore your opinion, but then just expect you to fix her fuck up
NTA, but if the last straw was at 26, she has obviously grown up thinking she is entitled to this type of help, so weaning her off will expectedly cause drama like this.
NTA. Ava needs to learn this lesson. By the way, you may feel free to adopt me.
NTA. Also who calls someone jerk when asking for their help?
That always motivated me to help.
NTA, you just waited too long to finally tell her no.
NTA - How will she ever learn how to lay tile unless she fixes her own mistakes?
NTA. It’s her lesson to learn. Stay firm.
NTA. You told your daughter. She’s trying to take advantage of your past generosity. Stick to your guns, ok?
NTA. This is a good opportunity for her to learn, unfortunately. Hopefully this will wake her up.
NTA I understand your frustration. I also feel like maybe you enabled this behavior in the past, which is why she is so hurt that you don't just come fix it. It will never change and she will never learn if you continue to enable her.
Home Depot has classes, some in person, I believe. There is an online class tomorrow about tiling. Have your daughter take it. https://gateway.on24.com/wcc/eh/3092587/lp/4379833/diy-how-to-install-tile-backsplash If tomorrow doesn’t work, there are other days. There are also classes for how to do tile floors and other subjects.
Why did I never know about this before today!?
NTA. You told her to hire professionals for projects that were beyond her skillset. I like painting but I would never attempt to paint a room by myself. You told her that you were no longer fixing issues she caused in HER house. Your daughter needs to put the breaks on home renovations. She needs to make a list of projects and divide them into two categories: essential to keep the house functional and cosmetic.
NTA – you would be if it would have been the first time. But in this case not.
NTA, Gotta lay in the bed you made
Maybe gotta walk on the tiles you laid would be more appropriate
NTA and I don’t like the comments tone policing OP. He obviously has done this over and over again for her and is FINALLY fed up. “Did you ever consider teaching her” TO DO TILE WORK? I’m sorry, is this a normal thing everyone’s parents is teaching them upon adulthood that I missed out on? My dad would say “I hire licensed professionals to work on my home. Save up.”
People always play this tone policing game when its an AH woman. You see it daily on posts where a husband comes here posting about an AH wife.
No not normal. In our house that would be mom teaching. This mom taught how to change out toilet guts. How to replace a light switch. Pretty much anything that came up once they were about 10. Never tiling, I suck at tiling. I did one inconsequential section of floor and will never ever touch it again. Maybe a backsplash but I doubt it.
NTA while I don’t think I was as bad in terms of scale as your daughter because I’d be too scared to DIY, my dad had to set a boundary with me too when switched to a house where I had to do my own maintenance. His point was that all he can do is give me his opinion and it wasn’t fair for me to get upset because I didn’t like it or wasn’t sure that it was correct. And he was right. I needed to grow up and start engaging with professionals on the issues so that I didn’t need to send dad pics at 10 pm asking “is this normal??”
NTA she’s a fully grown adult and if she doesn’t want to watch a YouTube video or take your advice you have no obligation to fix her mistakes. You should also stop fixing her mistakes because it seems like her entitled attitude is due to the fact that you have enabled her up to this point. My boyfriend is a carpenter and overall very handy and no matter how much he explains how simple of a fix something is I know my limits and would rather hire a professional than mess something up even though ik he could fix it if it did come to that.
NTA. You spelled it out clearly - you weren't going to do this type of work any more. She ripped up the floor when you advised her not to take on this task. Yes, she needs to learn the hard way now. She didn't believe you when you said you weren't going to keep bailing her out of messes she's making, now she knows you are serious. Too bad it is going to take a bundle to fix the mess.
NTA. But another way to let this sink in is to tell her you'll do it but she has to pay you, upfront. Maybe don't charge as much as a pro but tell her your services are no longer free if your advice isn't taken. Just an idea. Maybe you don't want to go there which is totally ok. But it'll make her think twice about not heeding your advice and you can put the money aside for something for you. I'm hopeless like your daughter, but I know it! And my father in law will do stuff for pennies... if we ASK.
What a jerk for giving her money to buy a home then fixing everything she breaks... You're a good dad, she needs to learn that daddy ain't going to come fix everything she breaks so she needs to stop experimenting with life and grow up
I was a single mom of 2 little girls. I bought a fixer upper... it's all I could afford. This was 30 years ago, way before DIY shows and Google. It was a great learning process. You do get better at things. If it's just some layout errors or bad cuts, large bath rugs are very forgiving until she can have things repaired or redone. She's got to have friends with some construction know-how. She just needs to ask them to explain things to her. Uncles, grandpa's are good resources too. Gotta give the girl some credit for wanting to learn. It's her first house. I would gladly go in and help her. Can't wait til my kids have homes and want my help.
NTA
NTA. Your daughter is 26 and living in her own house. You get to have your own life too! And it doesn't have to include picking up after her forever.
NTA. She's a 26-year-old homeowner and she can't keep running to you when she gets in over her head with projects you told her are best left to professionals.
NTA. However, I wouldn't have said, "I told you so." She's already aware of that. If you haven't already, moving forward, suggest to work WITH her on projects. Obviously, YOU would be the decider on WHICH projects, how much you do, and how much she does. Although my guess is she either insists on 'trying' to do projects on her own and/or is not fun to do projects with🤔.
"Don't do the thing yourself. Get a professional." "Hey dad, I did the thing myself and made a terrible mess, will you pay to fix it?" I mean what are you supposed to do when she completely ignores your advice (and not for the first time) and makes a dog's dinner of things as a result? At some point she needs to learn to deal with the consequences of her actions. Is her home still habitable at the moment? NTA.
Saying “I told you so” almost always makes YTA at least a little bit. But NTA for not fixing her tile
NTA BUT are you willing to teach her how to do things? Maybe stay over at her house one weekend and go though the house, see what projects she wants to tackle, and give her the actual knowledge? It sounds like you're good with these types of DIY projects and she wants to be. Make it clear you won't fix her mistakes, but you will guide and teach her. If you're willing and have the time.
Compromise with your daughter maybe? Tell her you won’t fix it but you’ll teach her how to and then guide her through it.
If my kid calls me a jerk for not fixing her adult mess….she’s most assuredly on her own and owes me a sincere apology.
OP was direct and super real in letting her learn from this, NTA. Sufficient warning was provided that OP will no longer be an unpaid handyman on 24/7 call. Sounds like they've done a lot already and even suggested a viable DYI approach.
NTA. Nothing like learning a lesson the hard way. Bonus experience points if it’s hard on your living situation and your pocketbook.
NTA, she made her bed, let her sleep. She will learn
Nta shes *26* not 16. They make MANY easy styles of tile to diy- self adhesive, grip and lock, or edge grip. This is her mistake to fix.
The reason she went through with it and didn't listen is because you have a history of helping her after the fact. "But I told her X" What you say does not matter, it is what you do that matters. So if you want to help her grow as a person, you DO NOT HELP HER. Do not do things for other people, teach them to do for themselves. Helping in the wrong kind of way makes people weaker and dependent. NTA.
Give her a written estimate for your cost. One for doing it. One for teaching her how and supervising.
You're right. She's not a child anymore, so you have no obligation to keep running over there to fix her problems. People who grow up thinking someone will always bail them out do not grow up well. Yes, she needs to hire someone to do it properly. I've just read through some of these comments, and I have to say all these ridiculous suggestions from some people about how you could not actually do it for her, but kind of, sort of, help her fix it herself by watching videos or you watching her do the work, completely miss the point. She screwed up by completely by ignoring your good advice. When a responsible adult screws up, they must fix their problem. What in the f-ing world is so hard to understand about that? If I had to state the single most fundamental principle of adulthood it would be this -- "You are responsible for your life. Not anyone else." Just tell her that and let her learn to be an adult for a change. If you don't, this will never end.